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Apple Users Threaten to Sue Over iBook, iPod
An anonymous reader writes "Reuters is running a story about failing Apple hardware. 'Can a few bad apples -- like product quality complaints and potential lawsuits -- spoil the bunch for loyal fans of Apple Computer Inc. ahead of their biggest party of the year? As enthusiasts devoted to Apple prepare to descend on San Francisco next week for the annual Macworld conference, at least two online petitions have collected hundreds of signatures from potential plaintiffs seeking to file lawsuits over claims of defects in the iBook laptop.'" Yay, online petitions, the most effective way to effect change in the world.
The real irony is that the money the plaintiffs spent on a mac (at least part of it) will be going towards funding the legal defense that will make sure consumers get the least out of the law suit.
I decided about a year and a half ago to give apple a chance on their ibook. However, because of consistent problems outside of warrenty, battery failings, and logic board issues, I figured Apple would live up to the name they built for themselves. All I can remember is that Apple stood for reliability and dependence, that I should "Switch." Unfortunately, because I've shared all the problems mentioned within the article, and because the customer service departments have been of no help, the first mac I ever bought will now be my last. From a business standpoint, Apple cannot afford to alienate all of us first time users. At 20 years old, I have quite a few more computers to pick up in the coming years, and unless things change - they'll be anything BUT macs... -tw- "All my favorite singers stole all my favorite lines." =AK3=
suck my ping!
And, if your reading this Mr BlackCider, they did recall a few things already (making your bad-recall-press rant in your Open Letter a bit moot), like the powersupply for the G3 and the replacement plan for noisy G4's. Hopefully they address this and all you iBook users out there with this problem get a solution, soon.
Out of the computers I've owned in, let's say, the past twelve years, only one has never had any sort of problem - and it was a Compaq. Last time I checked, Compaq wasn't exactly well known for well-built computers. The computers that have had something wrong include an Epson, an Acer, a Gateway, two Apples, and probably another one or two that I can't remember.
Even though my two main Macs have had one problem each, Apple's technical support has been nothing short of stellar. I purchased a PowerMac in August of 2002. The machine had some display problems. Apple two-day shipped me a replacement video card and DIMM. After those didn't solve the problem, I had to take the machine into a shop. Once I got the machine back (it apparently had a bad processor daughter card), I found that the local shop had broken my video card. Apple overnighted me a new video card - a video card better than my original one.
I'm sure my story isn't indicative of everyone's experiences with Apple's technical support, but I'm also sure that Apple's high technical support marks from major computer magazines isn't illusory, either.
http://ipodbatteryfaq.com/
Apple has also had trouble in the past with iBook power adapters. Apparently when some people plug in their iBooks, sparks start flying from the port. When confronted, Apple denied the problem existed, and even removed posts on the support forums related to it.
WARNING: If accidentally read, induce vomiting.
i bought a g3 ibook little over a year ago. a week before the warranty ended, the screen started going blank. i got the extended warranty, but was a little pissed with not having my computer for a week. then, i bought a new g4 ibook, and less than 2 months pass, and the trackpad is all screwed up. so i send it back to. so they fix it. but, i am more than a little pissed. now, i can only think, when is the next thing gonna go out on me. apple is trying to enter the lower cost field, but at what cost?
My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
I just sold my old G3 (just out of warranty) iBook on Ebay and bought a new G4 model. I sold it back in November, and the girl who bought it emailed me asking about viruses or something. Said that it acted all strange and then died, and when she tries to turn it on she gets a blank screen. It turns out the symptoms it has are that of a failed logic board. Warranty ran out in sept, and it just died now.
Apparently the cost of replacing the board through apple is almost as much as just buying a new laptop. I feel kinda bad about it. But I guess that's the risk you run when you buy things out of warranty, which is part of the reason I got rid of it (which is the reason I used to justify buying a new toy). I hope it's not the logic board and just something that can be fixed easily, but all signs point to hardware failure.
Need Free Juniper/NetScreen Support? JuniperForum
That ipod battery faq is most informative. Has instructions on how to replace the battery yourself, or use an external battery pack. Under no circumstance is an ipod ever considered disposable or useless.
You're right, I wouldn't steal a car. But if it were possible, I sure as hell would download one!
Apple's own boards are buzzing with hundreds of posts. But the real action is at Macintouch.com and MacFixit.com, where both owner experiences and technical analysis are being shared as people try to understand why this is happening and decide what to do. If you have a problem iBook, try there. If you are thinking of an iBook purchase, better look there, too.
Why all the commotion? Simple: lots of iBooks broke down, then they broke down again, and through it all Apple has kept mum. Now, it's one thing when software, like Windows, performs crappily; people will endure an awful lot of that. When their shiny months-old laptop is going back for the second, third, or fourth logic board replacement, however, they tend not to be so forgiving.
If it fails in warrantee, then the maker should make it right. Make noise! Don't let the maker say no (unless it was YOU who obviously broke it :))
If it fails after the warrantee. Then it's my responsibilty to pay for the fix.
Class Action suits servers no one but the lawyers.
Lawyer: $55,000,000+fees
You: A voucher for $20
WooHoo I showed Apple! Im get a $20 voucher!
Uh, how much was their apple.com/switch campaign? How much is 30 seconds of prime superbowl real estate?
And finally, how much does it cost to BUY back a reputation, or customer loyalty?
With windows, pc assemblers and componant manufactures they can all point at each other and diffuse the blame. With Apple, you know who's fault it is. Again, their choice has certain consequences, just like everyone else's.
What about all us people with titanium powerbooks that have serious paint issues?
I have been extremely careful with mine... yet paint is coming off everywhere! It literally bubbles off, and other places the paint has completely discoloured...
I know i'm not the only one that has these problems, some batches of tibooks have had severe paint issues, and nothing has been done about that either....
D.
You can tell how powerful someone is by the magnitude of the crime they can commit and be able to get away with.
I bought a dual USB 12" iBook 800 last year - three weeks after I bought it, the new 12" Powerbook was announced which was pretty annoying.
:)
Anyway.. I didn't treat it rough or anything and after 11 months, one day I'm using it just fine, put it to sleep, moved it to another desk, opened the lid, then the display flickered a little, then a lot, then went off completely.
Restarted it, it came back. After a few minutes it did it again.
Fortunately I managed to turn on file sharing and SSH so I could get my files off the thing. Here is the interesting part - I had VNC installed on the iBook, but when trying to start it up via an SSH connection in the usual way was told that there was no display - the thing thought it was headless.
Luckily for me this happened just inside my warranty, and even luckier the place I bought it screwed up the repair - basically they sat on it for a month without doing anything - and had to offer me credit in the store to the value that I paid 11 months previously. I paid a little extra and got the 12" 1Ghz G4 Powerbook, which was nice
I hope this one screws up within warranty too - I could get used to a cheap laptop refresh every year.
The real blame for ruining the party goes not to those poor souls who've been burdened with faulting hardware, but to the Apple reps who've handled these cases so poorly, and to the increasingly lacking QA in hardware production.
Apple have it in their power to right the wrongs and improve production quality so it's back on track where it's supposed to be. People don't make up stories about bad mobos if there's nothing wrong with their mobos.
Apple are off the 'good guys' list at Consumer Affairs. If they want to get back on, they'll have to get the party rolling.
These lawsuits are classic FUD. If they want anecdotal evidence to be the barometer for measuring Apple's performance, than we "Mac zealots" can churn it out as fast as the trolls. I've had an iBook G3 for more than two years now with *gasp* no problems! The closest thing I have to a problem is a white spot on the display that came from dropping my shoulder bag on a rainy day. Meanwhile, my friend broke the hinge on his 15" Powerbook himself, called up Apple, and got them to fix it for him. His total turnaround time was less than a week. Apple's customer service is insanely nice. If you can't get them to replace your broken hardware, odds are its because the customer service rep can smell the BS on your breath. Or am I the only one who finds it suspicious the iPod batteries suck campaign started AFTER Apple decided to offer a battery swapping program? This is FUD. Pure, uncut FUD.
OMG it's one of THOSE people!
They really do exist as we can see here. "omg - *gasp* I haven't had any problems with my iBook therefore all of you that have faulty iBooks are liars"
My amusement is marred by concern. I find this delusional attitude truly disturbing.
Having heard about this a long time ago it seems to me that the people organizing this crap are just doing it for the publicity. They get to whine and people will pay attention to them.
The iPod battery problem is pretty absurd. I've miraculously fixed more than one iPod whose owner knew beyond any doubt their iPod battery was dead. A bug in the 1.x firmware causes the iPod to not wake up if the battery charge drops to zero. All that is required is a few minutes charging and a hard reset, holding down menu+play/pause for a few seconds.
That isn't to say several people haven't really had their battery die. In the case of a truly dead battery there's always been a few options. Since the second generation iPod's release there's been iPod batteries available for sale from various retailers. Besides retailers there's always been AppleCare available for the iPods. It costs $60 for an extra two years of warranty coverage. That is $60 for three years total of battery replacement and any other sort of repairs. You don't even need to buy it when you buy the iPod. Whining about not being willing to protect a $300-500 investment is a bit absurd to me.
The situation is similar for the iBooks. Having a major hardware component die is absolutely no fun. However this sort of failure is something that would be covered and has been covered under the hardware warranty. If people with failed logic boards did have AppleCare they'd be up and running again in under a week. Instead they want to rant and rave and make money selling t-shirts.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
Like a Linux or Windows user never did that too.
I have seen diehard windows users who will admit that they never had trouble with their system crashing and viruses. Or Linux users that have never had a problem with their Linux systems.
Diehard Zealots are in every camp and they all do the same thing. Lie about what they are zealot about because they cant face the truth that something can be wrong.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
You have got to be kidding me...........PAINT ISSUES.
Now the people who are seeing sparks or having major problems with the equipment just not working I can understand however you are having issues with the paint job, this is not a real problem, it just does not look as good as it could.
To be honest as well, while the paint may come off those machines take a lot of pain. I had a friend take his to Iraq when he was on duty and his surivied for the largest part of his time there, no normal pc laptop I know would have taken those conditions.
For those apple users with real issues, good luck, for those with paint issues, I hope apple keeps ignoring you as they should, they have bigger problems to deal with.
as some other users have pointed out, complaintss about iPod's battery not being eternal and/or easily replaceable are absolutely ridiculous.
I just had to return an iBook G4 I received for Christmas yesterday as it started to flake out. Wouldn't wake up from sleep, breathing on it was causing it to lock up, and then it wouldn't even boot.
But, I have no plans on joining the Class.
The only thing that does bother me are the pricks at the Genius Bar at the Apple Store in Atlanta. Too fscking condescending.
He said it was a hard drive failure. Hmmm. Hard drives wouldn't affect it NOT even coming up into Open Firmware.
Idiot.
But, this is the 4th Mac that's alive in my household.
Chevy may have the Corvette & the Camaro, but it also had the Chevette & the Corvair. Camaro owners still love Chevy, and the Chevette didn't change that, and neither will this.
Nothing to see here, just move along.
Go here to create your own Slashdot dis
It depends on their level of problem tolerance. Some folks don't count having to reboot a few times or being required to practice safe computing (don't run attachments and so forth) as "Trouble with their system."
This isn't to say that there arn't any incoherant diehard zeolots out there but due to the folks with a high tolerance for computer problems it appears that there are more of them than there are.
Go here to create your own Slashdot dis
In December, I received two awards for classes I was a part of (and did not even know I was a part of). One was a check for $1.00 from a credit card I had many years ago that had apparently not properly disclosed all the fees. The other was a $5.00 discount on my next domain registration from Register.com for having the gaull to put a "website comming soon" default instead of giving visitors to my domain a 404 when there was no index.html to view.
The winners in both suits were the suits (pardon the pun).
If these consumers want to punish Apple with hundreds of thousands in legal fees and bad press then they are on the right track. If they want free batteries or better iBooks, then they should look elsewhere.
I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
Here in the Netherlands (not sure about the rest of the EU) it is mandatory by law for a company to extend the warranty with 3 months after a product has been repaired and returned to the customer. This extension is not cumulative, if the standard warranty doesn't yet expire for at least three months after the repair, there is no further extension, as far as I know (unless the repair time takes too long, in which case the customer should also be compensated).
If a similar law were to apply in the US as well, then I'm sure Apple would think twice about shoving this problem under the carpet, since not taking action would possibly cost them more money in fines and legal expenses than if they just fixed the ibooks even though they're just out of warranty. Not to mention the reputation and goodwill that would be at stake.
Is there a similar law in the US? Knowing how little the US government protects consumers from malevolent companies, there probably isn't.
Call us communists, but the simple fact remains that corporate interests are often not the same as consumer's interests. The customer's rights should be defended, and there is definately a role for the government to play here.
"Oooh, does that mean we get to kick some puffy white mad zionist butt?"
you should have bought the extended warrenty.
So if it wasn't important enough to sue over, don't (quit making lawyers rich).
I have been buying apple product for decades, and have had machines die at various stages of their life-cycle. I have also bought products from other manufacturers. I find it fair to say that this wanker doesn't really seem to have anything close to a complaint.
I have NEVER had Apple refuse service durring the warranty period, and their work has been exemplary. I have had machines die before and after the warranty period, and it is rarely problematic to have them serviced. AppleCare is a good deal, although I haven't bought it for all my machines -- and when I don't, I attribute it to my own bad judgement/luck, rather than blaming the failure to buy the very reasonable extended warranty.
I would be frankly astonished if there was any legal cause of action for a post-warranty failure that Apple refused to fix for free. Apple's warranty and service are comparable to that of the industry at large, better than some and not as good as others, but certainly not an unreasonable business practice.
The guy's website seems more like whining to me than a legitimate complaint.
Apple's extended warranty program is very reasonable and their service quite fine. I'm really not sure what you are expecting from this rather straightforward business deal:
1) you pay a price for a computer. It is warranted to be free of material defects for a year, and they promise to repair or replace it during that period for free;
2) if you would like them to support the machine thereafter, you can pay a few hundred dollars to extend that warranty for an additional three years, more than the usual lifetime of any reaonable personal computer;
3) if you don't, Apple WILL repair your machine on a case by case basis -- they will fix a machine in generally ok condition for a fixed fee and, except for certain serious problems, that fixed fee (just a bit more than the AppleCare purchase by the way) will get you a virtually refurbished machine back.
That WAS the deal -- it was black and white. You didn't take the deal, and now have a machine that needs to be repaired. I understand that you would rather not pay for it. Aside from that, what, exactly, is your complaint?
Go to Blackcider.com, and read the "letter to CEO".
I'm a tech for a school district, and I can tell you this problem is real and very very severe.
We have just about every kind of mac ever made, and overall their quality is outstanding. New imacs, old imacs, old clamshell ibooks, etc.
The MLB issue these dual USB ibooks are having are much worse than you'd imagine. We have about 150 of them, and we fully expect every one of these to die at least once. We've logged about 70 logic board replacements so far. Some machines have had two boards already.
My point isn't that Apple products never have problems (ie. my friend's Powerbook broke). The point is that Apple will fix it for you unless your a douche or running a campaign of FUD.
Apple knew about the iBook issues in 2001, and yet they continue to pretend they don't exist.
My iBook was/is under warranty, the ethernet port got flakey, they charged me $700. Yes, I will sue.
A machine shouldn't last 1 year. I have a IBM Thinkpad from 1991 that still runs like a champ. Hell I still have my first Apple //e which runs since 1983, so don't give me bullshit about "That's the deal". If everything you bought only lasted as long as the warranty you'd be pissed. Imagine your car no longer works after 3 years, your TV breaks every year, not to mention all your computer components, DVD players, stereo equipment, etc.
Pull your head out of your ass. It is okay to expect your equipment to work longer than the warranty is valid.
My observations so far:
1. the average "useful" life span of a Mac is 3-4 years (over a PC 2-3 years) before upgrading to a faster machine, even if it has not failed. * implies normally Mac are better built.
2. If it is your primary machine and you are crap about backing up etc then you should get Apple Care. * just common sense..
3. It is unfair, but if your machine goes down out of warranty.. tough. When you buy a camcorder or huge TV you spend a similar amount of money, there is only a Limited Warranty too. * Just a game of numbers. There will be people who have no extended warranties and have their goods performing flawlessly for years. Think bell shaped curve.
4. FINALLY.. has anyone studied the failure of harware that is covered within an extended warranty? It would be interesting to see what the average life of hardware is!! And whether there is a price point where extended warranties are worth their money!
My conclusion, shit happens. Read reviews.. pick the best system for your needs at a price point you can live with.. If the product is pivotal to your work/life have backups.. Automate things..
http://ibdf.mine.nu... is this si for real, Apple must take care of this... :((( Apple do you hear me? toc toc toc...
I'm writing to share a tragic little story.
I have an iBook that I use for my graphic design assignments. One night, I was working on a project, when all of a sudden it went berserk, the screen started flashing, and the whole project just disappeared. All of it. And it was a good design! I had to cram and reproduce it really quickly. Needless to say, my rushed project wasn't nearly as good, and I blame that iBook for losing the account.
I'm happy to report that my wife and I now share a PC I built for $300. It's a lot faster to work on than my iBook was, it hasn't let me down once, and my projects have all been really good.
Bite me, Apple.
Will Durman, Switcher
__
Whatever doesn't kill me makes me stronger. Given enough time, I'll become either very strong or very dead.
I've got a copy of Apple's 10-Q SEC filing for the three month period ending June 28, 2003 here in front of me. During that period, according to page 29, Apple shipped 190,000 iBooks.
According to the current frong page of "Black Cider", 1209 people have signed up for their alleged class action law suit. Presumably, most of those people are legitimately having serious hardware problems with an iBook that they bought during the last year.
Assuming that iPod sales don't vary wildly by season (and their 9-month number, 509,000, shows that this is a valid assumption), then we can guess that Apple shipped somewhere in the neighborhood of
4 * 190,000 = 760,000
iBooks in the last year. If you ask me, a failure rate of
1209 / 760,000 = 0.0000827
or 0.00827% speaks pretty darn well for Apple hardware reliability.
Yes, surely there are plenty of people out there having problems who haven't even heard of this law suit. By the same token, there are surely plenty of problems that Apple has resolved amicably. Therefore, the number above isn't really a failure rate, but instead the rate of seriously disgruntled iBook consumers.
If I were considering a major purchase and the salesperson supplied numbers showing me that there was a 99.99% chance that I'd be happy with the product, I think I'd reach for my credit card.
I swear, the only thing that I can think of to explain these issues people have with Apple support is that they go in acting like an asswipe. I have dealt with Apple Care on numerous occasions from 1996 to now, for various reasons, be it personal or work related and I have only once encountered a person whom I felt was unhelpful, and the situation was remedied by hanging up and calling again. If you are polite with tech support and explain and cooperate with them, they have always been more than helpful in repairing and replacing parts.
A great example is I had an old clamshell iBook which was dropped and the latch which closed the CD-ROM door had broken. I called Apple, and technicaly speaking, drop damage is not covered by waranty, but when I explained what had happened, they gladly offered to repari the drive, and sent me an overnight box. 4 days later I got the iBook back with a new CD-ROM drive, and a note saying they had noticed some cracks starting in the front svreen bezel and had replaced that too. Free of charge.
And I'm not the only one, I know plenty of people that have never had a bad experience with Apple tech support, and I know others that could only tell you of one instance. I am led to believe that people are just stupid about what they're doing and they act like assholes to tech support.
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
IANAT.
But I am an owner of three Macs (currently), past owner of several more and happy iPod owner.
I've never bought AppleCare on any of my machines because literally nothing hardware-related has ever gone wrong with them. I'm serious - no bad PSUs, no dead pixels (not even one), no nothing. I haven't had a kernel panic since OS X's Public Beta. And I am not shy about cracking boxes open and throwing in extra hardware, though I haven't broken out a soldering iron. Yet.
These disgruntled Mac folks probably have gotten used to similar experiences, and when they get a taste of real PC medicine they cry foul.
Go stuff it, you troublemaking bastards. You read the warranty information - or if you didn't you deserve what you get. Did you buy an extended warranty that would cover your complained-of problems? No? You really expect Apple's products to last forever, even though the company uses nearly all industry-standard equipment? You expect Apple's Li-Ion batteries to magically outlast the identical competition?
Take your licks and quit spreading accusations, petitions and talk of lawsuits. Or even better, go buy from another company and bring your unreasonable dissatisfaction with you. If you're not willing to recognize that an out-of-warranty personal computer (or MP3 player) is your responsibility alone... I guess you're not really a Mac person.
It seems like a lot of comments are complaining that the people with problems with their iBooks are just bitching and moaning and want someone to listen to them whine about it. Several others have pointed out that Apple's support is (usually) very good and will fix anything under warranty, pretty much with no questions asked. However, I think some of these people are missing something important.
I have no complaints about Apple's support at all. Quite the opposite, actually; the people I've dealt with on the phone have been extremely helpful, and when I've had to send my iBook in to be repaired, it's been returned to me so quickly that they must've fixed it and put it back in the mail immediately after it reached them. They've even replaced part of the case that was scratched while they were fixing other unrelated things.
The problem isn't with how wonderful their support department is or how they're willing to fix anything at no cost (as long as it's under warranty). The problem, for me at least, is that in the year I've had my iBook, I've been unable to use it for a significant amount of the time while it's being repaired. This past fall, during the most recent period it was in for repairs, I counted all the things that had gone wrong with it and determined that it's had a major hardware failure that made it completely unusable every 55 days since I bought it. I hardly ever travel with it, and I'm very gentle with it. It doesn't take any kind of abuse at all, unlike some people's laptops, but it still manages to be completely useless far too much of the time.
I brought my iBook with me on vacation last spring to work on some programming projects to pass the time while traveling, and it died the day after I left. By now, almost a year later, I can't trust that my computer, which I paid over $1000 for, will work long enough that I can start and finish a project on it before it up and dies on me, and although Apple has taken good care of me and fixed it repeatedly, they obviously haven't solved the problem, since it keeps happening over and over and over. There are hundreds, maybe thousands, of people with similar stories to mine. This is the problem.
I'm not asking for Apple to do anything special for me or to give me any kind of special treatment. I just want the computer I paid for to work for more than a few weeks at a time. If something goes wrong once in a while and I have to have it fixed, I can understand that, but if replacing the same part (the logic board) a couple times doesn't solve the problem, I don't want them to keep pretending that trying again a third, fourth, or eleventh time is going to make a difference if there's something fundamentally wrong with the design or manufacturing process.
All I want is a solution to whatever it is that's wrong with this generation of iBooks (which I am otherwise completely happy with, when mine works) so I can use it normally without being panicking and worrying that it's broken again whenever I see some kind of rendering or display artifact on the screen. I'm sure the poor support people at Apple would be happy to be done dealing with me calling in on a regular basis so they can take a break.
I've owned a bunch of Apple laptops: a Duo 210, a PowerBook 5300c, an iBook 500MHz & and iBook 800MHz. The only one that did not need repair at some point was the 500MHz iBook, and I only kept that for a year and a half.
There was a problem with the Duos where the keyboard was excessively mushy. Apple created some sort of repair extension program for that, and I got it taken care of for free when I brought the Duo in to a dealer to have a modem installed. That Duo ran like a champ until I sold it.
The 5300 series, everyone knows what crap they were. I had screen hinge problems and bezel separation problems, all kinds of crap. Apple instituted a 7 year repair extension program for those. Toward the end of it they did a trade-in offer for remaining 5300 owners to get a discount on a G3 Powerbook. I had sold my 5300c on eBay long before that, though, because I didn't need a laptop any longer.
In June 2001 I bought the 500MHz iBook, it ran problem-free for the 18 months I had it and went everywhere with me in my backpack when I was working. Sold it a year ago on eBay for only $200 less than I paid for it.
A year ago I bought an 800MHz iBook. About a month ago, I ran into the display problem everyone's bitching and moaning about, but I had not heard of this being a frequent problem back then. My iBook was still within warranty by a few weeks. I called the support line without a chip on my shoulder about it. The guy on the other end was friendly and professional. He also spoke intelligible English, because he was American-- a major plus after dealing with Dell support for one of my clients. He walked me through some tests, agreed that the unit was hosed, and dispatched a box. I got my iBook back a week later, good as new. I also bought AppleCare while I was on the phone with him. Like I said, I wasn't aware of the frequency of this problem at the time-- but I figured that if I sold this iBook to upgrade to a newer Apple laptop, the extended warranty would be a nice selling point. Likewise, if I kept it for 3 more years and something went wrong, I'd be covered.
To sum up, in my experience, when Apple has a widespread defect like this, they eventually do the right thing. The best example is their program to do free repairs on the PowerBook 5300 defects for an extraordinary seven years from the date the model was discontinued, followed by trade-in offers for a discount on new equipment.
As for these iPod battery whiners, though, I say tough shit. It's a *battery*. Batteries will eventually cease to do their job and need to be replaced. Most will last as long as their manufacturer (who is NOT Apple, BTW) intended. Some will go well beyond that. Some will fail right away, within your warranty, and some will die sooner than manufacturer spec but after your iPod warranty. Them's the breaks.
~Philly
I had an ibook with a failing backlight (it was a motherboard problem though, not a cable) . After inspecting it it seemed like the problem was in an inner layer of the board, so not really easy to solder. Applying pressure on the board did make it work properly, so a few inches of electric tape later and I got me a cheap ibook!
The iPod was is pure bullshit, its stupid lying assholes (you hear that "BROTHERS" who have been proven wrong on numerous occasions but because there is anti-mac sentimet again after a lull in it have gotten the wintel drones out to speak with them. We know your lying, we KNOW you broke two laws and are being investigated in NYC, so the iPod one is just FUD.
oh and BTW my first gen iPod still gets 10 hours :-P.
"Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."
"He told me to replace the factory installed RAM with the original RAM because the RAM might be the problem"
say, what? replace factory installed ram with original ram? what does that mean (sounds to me like an admission he WAS screwing around with the machine)?
Anyway -- this isn't an inherent problem with an iBook. He is claiming a straight breach of contract, and the results are ultimately fact-specific (whether his motherboard was, in fact, damaged by him) -- HARDLY a basis for a class action. Given the pictures he shows at his website, I doubt he is particularly clever, either legally or technically.
I agree that a machine should last more than 1 year. Most Macs generally do -- I have some that are decades old and still working fine. My early Apple ][ (not plus or e) still works fine. So what?
The question is whether Apple is bound, legally or otherwise, to repair an out-of-warranty machine. Answer is clear legally. Morally, they are on no higher or lower ground than any other corporation responsible to its shareholders -- they generally do not.
Apple provides an effective four year warranty, one year for free, three more for a few hundred bucks if you don't destroy the machine before you buy.
It is one thing to "expect your equipmnt to work longer than the warranty is valid." It is another to expect legal or other recourse when it does not.
That's the deal.
I got $225 credit from Toshiba over some floppy drive corruption issue (I never used the floppy anyway). Bought me a new battery :)
But I agree, some class-actions get crap for the class.
I have a key lime iBook (the 466MHz "SE" G3 clamshell). I've used it as an umbrella, a briefcase, and a place to spill soda. My question is...
WHY DOES IT STILL RUN?!
I have a friend that is in the same situation and he even has applecare. This is not a fantasy.
I have had my Ibook for over 2 years and have been very happy - no problems whatsoever!!!
I still can't understand all you kneejerkers out there that think there is no problem just because you don't have one and that everyone else should stop whinging about not having apple care.
AC - you people disgust me...
Apple laptops are effectively unusable for unix users.
I am a long-time Unix user. That means I need to have the Ctrl key to the left of the A key. This is a genuine need, not merely a want; it is based upon ergonomics. The Ctrl key is heavily used in unix, and it must be easily accessable. It cannot be off in the lower left corner of the keyboard where it is difficult to get at, and where it distorts the position of your left hand such that you can't easily type other keys while holding the Ctrl key down.
Apple desktop keyboards are now all USB. They are all OK. The CapsLock key can be re-mapped into a Ctrl key.
Unfortunately, even in this modern age, all Apple laptops have built-in ADB keyboards. The ADB keyboard is broken-by-design. It is, in general, not possible to remap the CapsLock key into a Ctrl key.
There are some exceptions, but they are horrible kludges. They are horrible kludges because the original design of the ADB keyboard was a horrible kludge. The correct solution would be for Apple to re-design their laptop motherboards to use built-in USB keyboards. This hasn't happened yet. If you run Linux, use Debian's solution. For Mac OS X users, uControl works. There are no solutions (that I know of) for either NetBSD or OpenBSD. Please note once again that the "solutions" above are in fact kludges, because of the original bad design of the ADB keyboard.
Apple provides a technical note on how to remap the keyboard, but provides no solution to the hardware problems caused by the design of the ADB keyboard. This tech note helps foreign language users, but does nothing for the CapsLock/Ctrl problem.
Apple is (currently) ignoring Unix users! This is not merely speculation on my part. In an on-going email exchange I am having with an Apple employee (whom I won't name) in their marketing department, the Apple marketing person directly stated to me that Apple was catering to their historic Mac customers, and is purposely ignoring the Unix market. He also claimed that Apple would soon start paying more attention to the Unix market. I won't hold my breath. Apple has been ignoring Unix users for more than 13 years. I expect that trend to continue. (Also note that my Apple contact indicated that Macs would never ship with a 3-button mouse, even though Apple intended to port almost all X-window software and deliver it either on a CD/DVD or installed directly on each Mac's hard drive. How Unix friendly is a 1-button mouse with X programs that often require 3 buttons?)
Apple has now lost two opportunities to sell me hardware. I really wanted an Apple laptop for their superior battery life, and for the PowerPC with Altivec CPU. (The Altivec is vastly superior to the x86 line for DSP.) Because I can't live with the broken-by-design built-in ADB keyboard in all Apple laptops, Sony and IBM sold me laptops instead. If Apple fixes this problem, they will sell me a PowerBook next year; if they don't, I'll still be running OpenBSD on x86 hardware, and wishing I could use a Mac.
I'm on my second powerbook. One of the things apple hardware has going for it is that it depreciates very little. So take advantage of this. Right before your 1 year warranty expires, sell the notebook in good condition on Ebay. You will recover most of what you spent on it. Take the amount you lost(likely a few hundred plus taxes), then subtract the substantial cost of AppleCare. We won't put a value on the percieved value of hassles getting Apple to actually fix things. (hey, Apple, hardware reputation, Slashdot, toilet?)
Take the money and go buy a brand spanking new Powerbook. It'll be faster, pretty, AND it'll come with the new version of the operating system you'd have to pay for anyway. Don't forget to include that in the cost total.
Amortize the lost cost over that year. You'll find in most cases it is much less than 100 dollars/mo.
..don't panic
I've had an iBook G3 for more than two years now with *gasp* no problems!
My friend owned a Ford Pinto for 10 years with no problems.. obviously that means there is nothing wrong with the Pinto's design.
... then you are screwed. Great policy that one of yours.
I would say it depends: if very few of your customers face problems after the warranty, then yes, you may have a point.
If a sizeable amount of people have problems shortly after the warrante is over this may be perceived as mismanagement or willful misleading. If I had a dead machine on my hands 2 or 3 days after the warranty expires my first thought would be " bastards. they knew it was going to brake". If I am the only one, yeah, I may be unlucky. If I am not, they may be a trend that shows machines were not very well designed or the warranty offered was too short, take your pick.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
I'm not surprised. Many original 500mhz G3 dual-USB iBooks have logic board problems. MANY DO. That's because they were first releases. Where I work there are MANY 500mhz and 800mhz iBook. The 500 fail a lot, the 800 is VERY stable and a good machine.
My workplace has about 15 Dell Latitude L400s. We got the three year extended warrantee on these things, and let me tell you, it's been well worth it. I believe that 8 of them have had motherboard replacements, 2 of them more than once. The fans have been swapped on every single one. The hard drives have been replaced on at least 7, and that's not counting the ones where people got larger hard drives so it's not on the original hard drive anyway.
There isn't a single week that goes by that I don't have to deal with one of these things shutting down, restarting spontaneously, overheating, making enormous amounts of hideous noise, or basically being contrary.
You know what? I can't find a single angry web site telling people not to buy Dells because of these Latitude L400s. I certainly can't find any lawsuits.
But since it's Apple, people expect the hardware to be absolutely perfect. And when it's not, they expect out of warrantee service for free. ('This product is warranteed against manufacturing defects for the period of one year'. Not 'this product is warranteed against manufacturing defects forever, and for any old way you can fuck it up including dropping it six feet onto concrete for the period of one year'.)
I honestly don't understand it. Are Apple fanatics really just that much more unrealistic than people who buy Windows machines? I mean, I'm a big Apple fan, even worked for them for a while, but I don't expect Apple's stuff to be perfect. And, from my experience, it's definitely better than the alternatives already.
-fred
Sign #11 of Slashdot overdose: You see the phrase 'moderate Republican' and you wonder if that would be a +1 or a -1.
Anyways, my folks had the 14-in-a-45 port problem. I fixed it by lifting up the pins that were accidentally flattened with a sewing needle. Took 15 minutes. Works perfect now.
-T
I can not get my PCMCIA to Firewire card ( NEC chip) to work with iPod, can anybody help?
I'm certain that this has been said elsewhere, but... here it is again in all its gloy: Yay, online petitions, the most (In)effective way to effect change in the world.
Tragek
For the most part, my older laptops, both Mac and Wintel are too feeble and not cost-effectively upgradeable. I do tend to buy new machines every three or four years, retiring my front-line machines to back-office and server farm things suitable for POS and ancient hardware.
The claim of "unreliability" is mostly FUD. I have decades-old machines still working fine. Some didn't last so long, true. But I have far more COTS PC machines that didn't make it so long either.
Enjoy the rhetoric, but you can't name another computer manufacturer that has a better deal without additional costs for extended warranties.