Slashdot Mirror
Warspying in San Francisco
hak_fan writes "SecurityFocus has a story on a group of radio hobbiests in San Francisco who occasionally go out warspying for wireless cameras in the 2.4GHz band, using some customized equipment. Their latest expedition turned up some interesting finds."
Not that you slashdotters would want to know such a thing.
/^[A-Z0-9._%+-]+@[A-Z0-9.-]+\.[A-Z]{2,4}$/i
The most fascinating part of this article to me - was the fact that it's NOT a violation of the wire tap act. It seems video isn't considered snooping. Talk about technology out pacing legislation. I wonder how long before we have one of those sites devoted to "hidden camera" porn? Oh, wait...
But this is slashdot. A slashdoter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber!
If they found some interesting finds, they left them out of the article. They found exactally what you would think they would find... cameras pointed at places in offices... not the hot lesbian orgy that you would hope for. Besides, isnt this a dupe?
"When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
I didn't know the letter 'y' was taking a break today.
Where, oh where have all the *hobbyists* gone?
-Cyc
/.'s 10 Millionth
Think outside the... Hey, where'd the friggin' box go?
Information wants to be FREE!!!
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
When you broadcast something, you shouldn't expect it to remain private.
If you want it to remain private, do something.
Encrypt it, or don't send it out to everybody.
From the article:
So the "catch of the night" is a freeway camera. Woo-hoo! Oh well, at least now I know there are bigger dorks than myself.
I know god exists. I read it on the internet, so it must be true.
"The problem is, if the cops take an interest in you while you're doing something like this, the only way to get out of the situation is to admit that you're a dork," says MWD. "I'd almost rather be taken back to the station."
This is why we're losing jobs to India. Indians don't have to worry about looking like dorks because they're interested in science.
and found nothing of interest.
You can only be young once, but you can be immature forever.
Dr Superlove 300ml. I use my powers for awesome
Anyone know if the wireless camera detectors they have at Radio Shack (still carry?) work? They were a small cigarette ligher sized detector. Didn't seem to me that it would work all that well...
JOhn
Campaign for Liberty
This sounds like a good plot starter for a political thriller.
A college student goes out to look at wireless cameras and witnesses a murder, which is later ruled a suicide by the coroner's office in a massive political coverup. He has the murder recorded on the hard drive of his notebook computer, and shortly after he hands a CD he burned with an MPEG of the murder over to his uncle, a police detective, his uncle is then found dead, another "suicide." Then the kid realizes they'll be coming after him next, and a merry chase ensues.
Has this already been done?
You are in error. No-one is screaming. Thank you for your cooperation.
Envy my 5 digit Slashdot User ID!
1. WWW
2. Porn
3. Profit!
How many of you would rather go to jail than admit you're a dork? Not I, I figure it might come in handy some day.
This is my digital signature. 10011011001
"His satisfaction at the discovery hints at the real nature of warspying: at least for WMD, the appeal isn't voyeuristic at all -- it's pure geek."
He starts off as Massive White Dude (MWD) and ends up as Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD). Interesting... Terrorist.
I don't know what's funnier -- the fact that the warspying guy's name was "Massive White Dude" (or "MWD" for short), or the fact that the reporter misspelled it as "WMD" in the second to last paragraph...
Slashdot's first reaction to VMware
I never thought this would happen to me. I was warspying around Clevland and found myself in a low-rent part of town. I didn't want to stop for long, but I glanced at my equipment while stopped at a red light and saw the most beautiful girl in the world. She must have forgotten to turn off the camera, because the things she was doing.... Well, let's just say it was even more exciting than the goats.cx guy, or the thought of Natalie Portman with hot grits down her pants. I went right up to her place, and secured that camera for her by setting up a linux firewall. But the really good part is, I put in a backdoor for myself!
that they are driving around with a police scanner in their vehicle... that's against the law in some states too.
Ironically, they'd be OK here in Florida... you can drive with a scanner in your vehicle here but only if you're a licensed HAM operator or newsguy.
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
... After which they started their own porn site.
Hate me!
feed the troll .... :-D
rtfa gives you
"This kind of snooping doesn't violate federal wiretap laws, which generally protect audio communication, but not video, says Joseph Metcalf, an assistant professor at the University of Oregon law school. Moreover, the law keeps it legal to monitor radio transmissions that aren't encrypted or scrambled in any way, unless they're in a band specifically protected by statute, like analog cell phone signals. "If a communication is readily accessible to the general public, that communication is not protected by the federal Wiretap Act," says Metcalf. "
Basically if you don't encrypt it it's your fault that someone else can read the signal.
Worst
It is no different than a voyer.
First, it's voyeur, not voyer.
Second, your comparison is fallacious. Sure, I have a right to be protected from people spying on me in my own home. However, if I plastered naked photos of myself all over the 'hood, then I think it reasonable to assume that I've waived this right. Same goes for wireless transmission; if I can receive the transmission in a public place, then those producing the transmission have effectively waived their right to privacy.
In fact, we could take this one step further. If I picked up a broadcast from a security camera, which happened to be pointed at two people fucking on the office copying machine, the company might be liable for broadcasting obscene material.
Tubal-Cain smokes the white owl.
Bah. The right solution to this problem is having the cameras encrypt their signal. Switching to a fascist society will not do the trick.
Nobody has a right to sniff like that.
If you don't want people sniffing you, you shouldn't stink up the place.
This is equivalent to communicating with your neighbours by shouting out of the window and then complaining that people are listening to what you say.
As another poster pointed out, if you're broadcasting, you shouldn't expect privacy. If you're sold a wireless system as a private link, then the people to complain to are the sellers of the hardware for false advertising.
You are a nincompoop sir.
...and there, like "voyeur", is another nice French phrase: "non-comprendre", not understanding.
Tubal-Cain smokes the white owl.
I know this is a troll but.....
If you're stupid enough to BROADCAST anything without encryption, then you're waving your right to privacy. There's plenty of cameras out there that don't use wireless. If you're worried about privacy, use those.
What IS illegal is enforcing you're own "justice" with a large hunk of wood.
--
$7.95/mo, 200 GB disk, 2TBxfer, MySQL, PHP, RoR.
Wardialing was coined after Matthew Broderick did that activity in the 1983 movie War Games. It was a little bit clever to mutate that into wardriving, but that took the prefix right up to the edge of Fonzie's ramp.
... just stood up all at once. The worst thing was that out of all my dvds, the one at the top of the pile was Enemy Of The State. Great film, although this story just make you wonder how many electronic eyes are watching you....
chris at darkrock dot co dot uk
http colon slash slash www dot darkrock dot co dot uk
But MWD doesn't relish trying to explain that to the San Francisco Police Department. Even when he's not warviewing, he keeps a police scanner running in his car, to "keep an ear on the pulse on the city," and tonight it provides some comfort by not squawking out calls about strange men carrying alien-looking ray gun equipment, or driving slowly and suspiciously though the city's varied neighborhoods in an ominous black '64 Volvo.
isn't it highly illegal to have a police radio scanner in a moving vehicle? I thought it was only legal to posess them if it was in a fixed location like your living room
*oops*
No, you're an idiot. "Privacy laws" are far from absolute, and privacy is not guaranteed by the Constitution. Do some research before you shoot your mouth off.
This is exactly what happens with your typicall baby monitor. People dont realize they are broadcasting their life to all their neighbors.
:)
In fact thats what happened to me, i bought a monitor, but its useless, since all the channels are being used by my neighbors.
At least I have something to do if I'm ever bored.
Its like a baby crying radio channel
sorry officer, left my sig in my other computer.
Where were these "finds" in the article? The office? The store security camera? I didn't see any particularly interesting
Sehr geehrter Toilettenbenutzer!
Unless you are going to build your own hack it seems that for the less technically inclined of us cash will be king. To get in the game the article suggests the two best options. Any feedback on which one gives the most bang for the buck?
t ml
ACN53292
http://www.actiontvusa.com/ACN53292.h
and the
Icom IC-R3
http://www.texastowers.com/icr3.htm
What the hell is this crap? It's NOT neutral. I can see it now...
Reporter: "So Mr. Car Thief..."
Thief: "Please. I prefer the term Vehicle Posession Transferal Agent".
You ARE spying. You're looking where you shouldn't; that's spying, just like eavesdropping on 802.11b is spying; you know your victims are probably not expecting you to be looking, and you know it's wrong. If your neighbor has a 8-foot high shrub, and you stick your head through it to see what's going on in his yard, that's considered intrusive by most of the world unless you know 'em pretty well. It's not considered "viewing". If you put a mirror over the top of the stall in the bathroom to look at the guy next to you, that's spying. Not "viewing".
Why do I get the image of Comic Book Guy reading about MWD? Even the "please, call me..." crap is the same.
Please help metamoderate.
First, it's voyeur, not voyer.
Don't be hasty - he could easily have meant foyer, or voter, or even visor. I would say the first one could have relevant meaning... in skewed kinda way.
The problem is that people do not understand what they are doing. What is needed is education, not legislation. People understand the idea that should you shout a loud description of your sexual fantasies in a shopping mall, then you have made a decision about your privacy. They just don't understand that by using this equipment they are setting themselves up a small scale rival to the playboy channel, and therefore makeing a similar decision
IMVHO, the responsibility lies with the manufacturer to make the capabilites of the product clear.
"Those who cast the votes decide nothing; those who count the votes decide everything." (attrib. Joseph Stalin)
I got one of the first-generation X-10 cameras free in a promotion a few years back. I hooked it up and played around with it for awhile, and then started wondering what was to prevent someone with the same receiver from intercepting my signal. With that in mind I put the gear back in the box and haven't touched it since. Looks like I made the right move.
No sig? Sigh...
some might tend to think you don't want privacy if you broadcast videos of your life all over the place
Free as in mason.
"The problem is, if the cops take an interest in you while you're doing something like this, the only way to get out of the situation is to admit that you're a dork," says MWD. "I'd almost rather be taken back to the station."
Wow, imagine the interrogation this guy would get:
Cop: What's your name, son?
MWD: Massive White Dude.
Cop: I see that, but what's your name? And what's with this wire and little television?
MWD: It's, uhh... top secret, government stuff. I need to speak with Special Agent Dana Scully. It's a matter of national security!
Cop: Dana Scully... and what department does agent Scully work for?... And did you know the tags on your 1964 Volvo are expired?
MWD: Oh, Appelbaum's Mom didn't send in her regis... I mean, it's the agency's car. You'll have to contact Agent Scully, she can clear all of this up.
Cop: How old are you? You look a little old to be an agent...
13 minutes later...
MWD: yes, it's true, I'm sorry! That thing is an antenna to pick up wireless camera signals of hot chicks in blue dresses. We've been driving around for hours in my friend's mom's car trying to find some naked girls showering on camera. I'm 60! I'm 60 years old, and I all my friends refer to me as "Massive White Dude" I'M A DORK. YES, YES, I CONFESS, I'M A DORK! CAN'T YOU SEE!
Logic anyone?
or maybe he figures because he used is alias, he wont' be found out
It's true: the letter "y" appears several times in *.h files.
Where is this right to privacy documented?
To be absolutely honest, you're not "waving" your right to privacy; you're WAIVING your right to privacy.
For instance, with respect to attorney client privledge, if you talk to your lawyer in a public place and yell your conversation to the word, you waive your priveledge. If you talk to him behind closed doors in your office, you don't, even if somebody is eavesdropping.
I realize that Joe Everybody probably doesn't realize that unencrypted radio waves can be intercepted by anyone, but golly gee whiz. Broadcasting an unencrypted signal IS yelling out to the whole world.
This is exactly the reason why I opted to use a hard wired camera for my home. Before I hooked up the camera, I search all over the place for an encrypted wireless camera. I could not find a single one, not even a high priced professional camera that James Bond would use. It certainly seems like this kind of product would exist. Anyone know of any encrypted wireless video cameras?
--- I'm Green Hornet's sidekick not Inspector Clouseau's!
Who can find pics of his 64 Volvo? I'd rather see those.
You are right, of course. Privacy is not guaranteed by the Constitution. I think the point he should have made, and which we should all consider, is that privacy should be guaranteed by common decency, not ignored or otherwise rendered meaningless by "uncommon" techniques (uncommon, that is, for most ot the population).
... this guy (ka6mwd), or this guy (kc6mwd), or this guy (ke6mwd), or this guy (w6mwd)?
Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
This is equivalent to communicating with your neighbours by shouting out of the window and then complaining that people are listening to what you say.
Oh, nonsense. You don't inadvertently "overhear" these types of wireless communications through no fault of your own.
You go there with specific, specialized tools and equipment and the knowledge to use it. These Poindexters went around with the express INTENTION of spying on people, and you know it.
So tired of the people that make excuses for everything...
Can't believe I'm bothering to post this:
IMNAL.
Let's go with the old door analogy. Leaving your transmissions unencrypted or your computer with no passwords or firewalls is like leaving your door wide open, with a note on it saying, "Dear Everyone, Come On In!". you might not think so, but if you don't you obviously don't understand the way the law works. If we start making the use of unencrypted radio frequencies illegal because it is "spying", next thing you know we'll be making listening to people talking as they walk down the street illegal as well. Or, viewing a sign in someone's private yard. One thing leads to another. The people of this nation have determined that if you put in a tiny bit of effort, by encrypting, you are in effect saying, "No, you may not view my materials I am broadcasting.", at which point the full force of law comes into effect.
In the U.S. Constitution, as the Supreme Court found some time in the 60's. One could make the argument that infact it doesn't say that explicitly, I don't know how some one can honistly read the first 10 bill of rights, expecially the 5th amendment and not get some sense of a "Right to free will and privacy".
Come the revolution, the Bourgeois, Capitalistic, "A PARKING STICKER HOLDERS", will be first against the wall!
From the linked article.
;)
/.
Simon Byers, a researcher at AT&T Labs. "It's so easy, and it's highly entertaining. Just look at the amount of people being arrested for being peeping Toms each year, and all the psuedeo-voyeur type porn out there.
Sounds like Simon is a well rounded and experienced voyeur! I wonder if he has any tips for those looking to get into this field.
PS. This is my 1000th post to
Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.
I have a question that EEs or radio enthusiasts might consider banal...
I have a RadioShack Pro-94 handheld scanner...I was under the impression that, because it is passive and not a transceiver, it's not detectable. Isn't that the case with their ICOM scanner as well? Maybe I misinterpreting the reason why they split when they saw the cop waving the antenna.
Any RF experts out there? What's the deal?
One day I hear a phone ringing in my son's room so I went in to take a quick listen. It was a wife calling her husband and to make a long story short she was at her wits end. It was basically a shape up or ship our phone call. She went into quite a bit of his 'activities' that bugged her.
Now, if only my wife was there so she'd realize i'm not that 'bad'.
"Thanks to the remote control I have the attention span of a gerbil."
Damn, I could watch that for hours. Maybe next week they can find a janitor waxing a floor.
Why do they want to intercept video signals, when they find nothing "interesting" by non-hacker standards?
Pure curiosity and the joy of discovering what information is being propagated through the aether.
It's not that different from the motivation behind, say, birders, or SWL's (shortwave listeners--people that do not have licenses and just listen rather than transmitting).
It's just interesting to see and understand what's there.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
Here, for one. When you begin ranting, be sure to make much use of the author's family's reputation.
I just pissed myself laughing.
I don't see any interesting pictures in the article. Did I miss something?
Less is more !
Maybe a wire*less*tap, but there be no wires here. And the air is legal to all. So if you have a wireless camera on legally-available frequencies...and it's signal isn't encrypted...yes, people will h4X0r your shit.
Back when I was in college, bored, and not getting laid, I did this with cordless phones that used to broadcast clear on 46 or 49 MHz. Obviously that was a lot easier, requiring only a $3 used multi-band radio. In an apartment building full of neurotic college kids, it was occasionally interesting to listen in, particularly when you know the people. ;)
But it's hard to argue how it would be illgal. That's like saying I'm going to secretly communicate with my friend across the street using a megaphone, and if you listen in, it's illegal. Won't work too well.
I don't know who's dumber, you or the guy who modded you up insightful.
Would Fonzie be warjumping that shark?
Hobbyists.
- Y-I-S-T-S..
H-O-B-B-Y-I-S-T-S.
Not fuicking 'hobbiests'. If someone is hobbiest, it means what, they are better at hobbies than anyone else?
H-O-B-B-Y-I-S-T-S.
H-O-B-B-Y-I-S-T-S.
H-O-B-B
H-O-B-B-Y-I-S-T-S.
H-O-B-B-Y-I-S-T-S
Yeah, I spent years cracking the code from one of the consistent Number Stations that was operating off the coast of California, only to discover that they were transmitting the ascii-art picture of the goatse guy.
Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachtani?
www.fogbound.net
It's not like they are planning to invade foreign nations or making WMDs. Why 'war'spying? They should be called 'PEACE'-spying!!!
being used, you'd think people would be fried right on the spot. Man, now they need to add MORE 2.4GHz stuff? *Puts chicken in air and watch it roast from the 2.4GHz energies* Cheaper than a microwave. ;p
-Kids in the back seat causes accidents.- -Accidents in the back seat causes kids.-
The idea of other slashdoters scares the living hell out of me... ... ...ugh... ... ...(faint)
and its a damn shame you wasted it
I thought they found some hidden cameras, and spent like 5 minutes reading the article - nada. They found a couple of cameras where you'd expect them (security). Much of this rather long piece is just about prancing around with a hand-held monitor and a huge antenna.
In the bay area.
um correct me if im wrong but aren't
girl 1 and girl 2 the same ebay user id with different pictures and descriptions???
also the first one is 265$ USD. wow. for that price im SURE you can buy a quality whore or about 10 cheap ones...
I'll just use my special getting high powers one more time...
First of all, if you're going to use a broadcast link for private things, then you should encrypt it. Simple as that. Most online banking already is SSL encrypted anyway, so stealing such information is generally impossible.
Second, while you may think that privacy laws _should_ be absolute (and I think you have a point there), current US privacy laws say that the activities discussed in the article are completely legal. If you don't like that, write you congresscritter or something.
Anyone who hacks or cracks or sniffs is doing an illegal and sick act.
Sick, yes. However, due to the (arguably) sad state of the US legal system, not necisarily illegal.
"Morally wrong" and "illegal" are two very different concepts. The activity in the article is (in the opinions of many) morally wrong, but it is not currently illegal in the US.
Unfortunately, the government does no always defend out "God given rights". If you don't like that, vote for somebody who will.
A relative of mine is a special assistant to the state prosecutor of a New England state which I will not mention here. He works in a pedophile unit. One of their more interesting/disturbing cases involved a fellow in a dense residential neighborhood who was setting up a wireless (I assume X10) video camera to keep an eye on his infant while he was on the other side of the house. He turns on the video receiver, and is rather surprised when he starts receiving video from his neighbor's daughter's bedroom. (We'll say he is in house 100, his neighbor is in house 102). He walks next door, and asks the man of the house why there's a camera running in his (teenage) daughter's bedroom. As it turns out, the next neighbor over (house 104) had given the girl a lava lamp for her birthday... with (you guessed it) an embedded X10 cam. As it turns out, he had a camera running in another neighbor's house as well. Today, he is still in jail.
Did no one else wonder if this might happen after seeing X10 popups, month after month, featuring candid shots of scantily clad women?
Check out this google cache here.
Now compare it with the current page here.
The brain (mine at least) is a funny thing. I immediately translated 'MWD' as 'Meapons of Wass Destruction'. I bet that didn't happen to any of the rest of you :).
http colon slash slash www dot darkrock dot co dot uk
Worried about browsing-bots harvesting your URL?
grammar-lesson free since 1999. (rescinded - 2005)
A flyer circulating around our Boston Public Library...
o f_Labor-Congress_of_Industrial_Organizations
/ faq o m
Is Big Brother Watching?
The union believes that the library is using
video surveillance to watch patrons and employees
in areas of the library.
The library will neither confirm nor deny
this.
The union is working with our legal department
to explore our options of recourse that you
and the patrons you serve may be illegally
videotaped.
Please Post
Boston Public Library Employees Local No. 1526
http://www.afscmecouncil93.org
logo http://www.afscme.org/images/2001s.jpg
American Federation of State, County & Municipal Employees, AFL-CIO
http://www.afscme.org
American Federation of Labor - Congress of Industrial Organizations
http://aflcio.org
8 Beacon Street Boston Massachusetts 02108
Telephone 617 536 5400 ext 2311 Fax 617 262 5554
allied label http://www.alliedlabel.org/images/label.gif
ALLIED PRINTING TRADES COUNCIL 73
UNION LABEL
BOSTON MASS
http://www.alliedlabel.org
See also
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Federation_
Collaborative WebLog
A guide to problematical library use
http://GuideToProblematicalLibraryUse.WebLogs.com
http://GuideToProblematicalLibraryUse.WebLogs.us
http://GuideToProblematicalLibraryUse.blog-city.c
One person creeps around a neighbourhood looking in windows, he's a sicko peeping tom!
Wealthy north american teenagers go around filming homeless people hurting themselves or tapping into other peoples cyber privacy to make themselves feel superior is culturally tolerable..?
Explain to me how this is'nt morally bankrupt arrogance.
You cannot justify this on technical grounds.
If I remember corretly, in california it's only illegal to have a scanner in the car if you're using it during a crime. Otherwise it's fine. This is how some other state laws are worded as well.
rm -rf ~/.signature
(From article)and the image of the empty office is one of the more interesting finds of the evening.
Hey slow down there buddy, that's far too much excitement for me to handle in one afternoon.
I couldn't think of a sig.
or what?
"ominous" and "volvo" don't seem to belong in this sentence...
Even a volvo is ominous with a MWD (Massive White Dude) in it... (RTFA)
Ron Paul 2012
Are you sure? Because throughout history some fairly famous people with pretty large followings went just this route--Stalin, Hitler, Hussein...of course, things didn't work out for them because the issues were a bit different. But still, you have to admit, things might have gone the other way.
:o}
sev
but have you considered the following argument: shut up.