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Microsoft's Online Music Store
jamshedji noted a short story that talks about Microsoft's Online Music Store. The market is already getting quite crowded, so it will be interesting to see what affect the monopoly's entrance makes when this goes down in the 2nd half of this year.
Download a proprietary encoded song for 89 cents and get a WORM at no extra charge. ;-)
Picture a group of old ladies wearing sun visors trying to sell modern hand bags to teen age girls. It's just not going to happen.
The guitars sound good, now give me about 10db more on the cow bell.
Microsoft's innovation and originality has just hit an all time low....
Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree. -Martin Luther
Wait.
YES, downloading mp3.........no wait these are .wma with copy protection, how can i share these?
Is "Start Me Up" by the Rolling Stones up for download? That'd bring the whole MS circle of crap to a sort of cosmic finality. :)
When life gives you lemons, you CLONE those lemons, and make SUPER-LEMONS. -- Dr. Cinnamon Scudworth, Ph.D
Microsoft should abandon that proprietary audio/video format they are clinging to and just go along with what the consumers have picked to be the defacto standard.
Sucks, doesn't it Microsoft?
"We have enough money to do something cheaper and longer than you."
Then, they wait and wait... until the market folds... and they are still on top. Who knows if it works or not, but that's their plan.
I use Microsoft everyday... but that part of Microsoft makes my stomach turn.
(See also XBOX)
Davak
Ya know, I'm not a huge Microsoft fan, but I'd probably be convinced to pay $0.99 a pop for that...
Any sufficiently well-organized Government is indistinguishable from bullshit.
As aspiring giants battle for marketshare, soon songs will be 29 cents each.
Learn About Outsourcing. http://www.pioutsource.com
They're already considering forcing Microsoft to remove media player, open some source as well as fining them.
If there's a bandwagon moving Microsoft have to jump on it.
Apple admits readily that they don't make any money off the ITMS, but use it to try and sell iPods. If MS is singing the same song (weak pun, I know,) then what are they trying to sell?
They already have WMA pimps, and will have a hell of a time competing for selection since they have to stay mainstream to have their name on it. The MS iPod killer? What a joke.
This is one of those cases when MS should have just walked away. Let the other guys handle the store and drive users to your products. There's nothing to be gained.
... just look at MSN! (On second thought just trust me on that one.) Even the most non technical people I know find MS sponsered content boring at best and insulting at worse. I don't think people are going to flock to this site with no "street cred".
:)
The only value this site has is it might bleed some cash from MS that would otherwise go to funding SCO.
I wonder if the M$ service will be like the others using their format.... That shortly after you cancel the service all the songs will stop working??? Can they actually get a license deal like apple?? If not is it even worth considering.
Evolution or ID?
The story has the MS spokesperson saying "Microsoft has not decided whether to extend its song portability to non-Windows Media devices."
If MS want to take on Apple, wouldn't it be insane for them not to offer MP3s as well? Why would they cripple the service by restricting it to WMVs?
is M$ trying to rule the world or should I say the general consumer world market? What's next M$ food products; just imagine the vir.... Yes I'm bitching, so does the world.
I thought MS would have been quicker than this - after all mycokemusic and others have been using MS's wma format to do this for a while already. However, since all new PC's will probably have a desktop shortcut to the site under 'download music here' (or some similar title) then MS will give themselves a legup over the competition.
as it is the product that they are selling. If all they are selling is the latest crap from Brittany Spheres or pretty much any of "today's hottest hits!" then they can forget any skyrocketing profits. It's been tried over and over again. One would think at this point, everyone is sick of the crap that's tried to pass as "music" nowadays (Yo, Music biz, get a clue! We can't stand the crap your feeding us, K?!).
Indie music isn't a bad idea and supports the artists, however, it hasn't come around to the mainstream quite yet, so it won't profit either.
They really need to come up with a product model that works before we can consider if the business model is successful.
i think the slashbots would be amazed as to how many people rely on MSN for everything - just like I rely on google for everything - sure, I think to myself WTF?? but changing the homepage for the average user is not an option.
.99 and they will buy and buy in droves.
.sig
case in point - i recently put an ad out for a car that i was selling - a 67 camaro - the car has been sold and the AD has been deleted - i am still getting queries on the car from people who are using MSN's proxy or dns servers - I get about 1-2 call/emails a day -
what i am trying to say is that even though prior to deleting the Ad I put SOLD SOLD SOLD in description space - still i get inquiries - so here is the morale of the story.
People don't read descriptions they only point and click at what they think is pretty
and
People take what is presented to them as reality - if there is an Ad then the car must still be for sale - regarless of whether or not it is sold.
Hence, if people see 99 cent songs on their hompage they will not consider who is selling them - only slashdotters seem to do this - they will only see that the song is
i have no
SCO Music Store: Only $699 per song!
Packard Bell Music Store: only sells 8 tracks
Apple Music Store: you have to jam a bent paperclip into a pinhole to eject the CDs
George Foreman Music Store: knock out the phat
Emachines Music Store: The CD's are printed on ice; sorry, no guarantees
Chrylser Music Store: $25.99 per CD, with an $8.00 rebate
Never let facts get in the way of MS bashing.
* Ratio of (Songs available on MS)/(Songs available on iTunes)?
* Time until MS intertwines their store with their desktop?
* Time until Blumenthal of CT goes after them?
* Time until an EU commish goes after them?
* This whole brainfart of theirs joins Bob in the graveyard?
Support a few technologists in Washington.
I wonder if M$ will integrate this too into the operating system? They probubally will. Apple already has it come with their OS so M$ won't be doing something new. I wonder if there will be a way to remove it though (unlike IE). HP is already going with ITunes so I would hope they remove the M$ one.
My money says it'll be integrated into the first service pack release after it's release and there won't be a way to remove it.
Evolution or ID?
Hopefully, increased competition in a saturated market will mean an increased willingness to bulk out music selection with more obscure or unsigned artists by at least some online vendors.
One worry, however, is that increased competition does not necessarily mean more money for existing artists. It may just mean, as usual, more extreme attempts to woo the big record companies who own them.
iTunes hits it big and suddenly the market is flooded with competitors. That's the way it happens. Ultima Online started making a mint and along came Everquest, Dark Ages of Camelot, etc. Nirvana hit the big time and suddenly there was a "Seattle" sound.
After a couple of years only a few players will remain. The rest will either have collapsed, merged or been bought by other competitors.
I will say that I'm surprised that Microsoft is getting into this game now, though. But getting into the console field seemed pretty alien so I suppose nothing is too far-fetched.
What I'm waiting on is a content provider model where one of the big companies - let's say Apple - with access to a huge library of material allows you to create your own mini-store. Sort of like Cafe Press, I suppose. You can populate your store with anything from the massive database (although most will be specialty stores selling particular genres of music). I'm not exactly sure how you could put the proper intellectual property protections on it, but it would really be great if the store "owner" could then upload material (local bands, amateur work, etc) to sell in the store.
My sigs always suck.
Pathetic.
Wasn't it a few short years ago that MS complained about the government taking away their "freedom to innovate"?
Now it seems the marketplace is running circles around Gates and Co.
Perhaps Ballmer needs to run around in circles too... this time screaming "Originality! Originality! Originality! Originality! Originality! Originality!"
The problem with socialism is that they always run out of other people's money. - Margaret Thatcher
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It will be even more interesting to see the effect of the monopoly's entrance. And how that will affect the rest of the market. /stickler
***
Hmm... As for the "Isn't the EU trying to slap M$ on the wrist and force them to not sell their OS in Europe unless they eliminate MediaPlayer(R)?" parallels... INAL, but that wouldn't take place untill M$'s lawyers have exausted all possible lanes of litigation, would it? My question is this: How long until some moron in D.C. decides that this means there are "alternatives" and try to make MP3 files illegal?
This tagline brought to you by 1500 monkeys in just under 17 years.
Microsoft is allready in this market in Europe, and have been for some time!
The MSN Music Club (now renamed Sonic Selector) has been going for a while now. Admittadly it isn't really powered by Microsoft, and is in fact provided by the European 'Online Disdribution' (OD2).
I wonder if the differences between the US and European markets are going to get more, or less pronounced this year with the entry of iTunes and Napster?
until Linus starts his own open source Linux-based online music store, that works with an open-source-design hard-drive music player even better than all the other stuff out there.
will it run linux? you betcha!
will it be beowulf-clusterable? definitely!
Eat your hearts out Bill and Steve.
XP with media player and client
XP with client without mediaplayer
XP with mediaplayer without client
XP without mediaplayer or client...
When all is said and done, nothing changes...
So you're saying Microsoft should just "go along with the defacto standard"? Except for maybe portable players, isn't Microsoft THE defacto standard? Perhaps you could just tell Apple to ditch their platform and go with the defacto standard.
Stupid argument, particularly because a) choice and competition is good, and b) you Mac users will bitch and moan about the Microsoft monopoly, but when someone suggests Apple should be the only provider of something it's +5 Insightful. WTF.
It seems their music catalog is going to consist largely of "blues" and "death metal" music.
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
I sware it seems just like when you are talking to some salesman who tells you " I will call you back {insert duration here} from now to see how you are doing" and sure as shit that long from now to the minute you get a call from them.
Microsoft must have the timer on 1 year and they set it for any emerging product that looks trendy. If that product is doing well when the tickler goes off then low and behold here is the Microsoft product.
Load iTunes. I was going to anyways, maybe now I should. I'm sure iTunes has at least one of the wierd one/no hit wonders I have just about forgotten.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
people raved about iTunes and its success but MS have had the facility for years (since wmp7) they just havent exploited it yet
in WMP9 i can press:
so if MS is starting a music store watch out because they already have on 90% of the desktops the same capability as iTunes but as we know "average joe" people unlike iTunes users will use whatever the default browser/media player/widget that the OS comes with, MS are in a powerful media position
unless you can persuade MS to let you in like Real(tm) are trying to do through a large lawsuit
MS are still tightening the screws, the EU antitrust on Media Player is just the start
1600s - Tulip mania
1920s - Florida real estate boom
1959-62 - "tronics" boom
2000s - xml,b2b, the internet bubble
2003-4 - the music bubble
"There was a time when every oil company went out and bought a fertilizer company, for no good reason. It was as if what was good for Standard Oil was good for Exxon, and so soon all the fertilizer companies were gobbled up" - Charlie Munger, Warren Buffet's right hand man in Berkshire Hathaway.
Why should everybody start selling music all of a sudden ? Napster started it, then Apple did it far better, then Real Networks jumped in, then that great equalizer of America - Walmart, now the ultimate monopoly - Microsoft. What do all these tech companies have to do with music ? Perhaps nothing, but then oil giants did't exactly mix with fertilizer either. Such is the madness of crowds.
I wonder if they will feature this wond'rous piece of melody and rhyme.
Wenn ist das Nunstueck git und Slotermeyer? Ja! Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput.
Who here is deluted enough to think Microsoft won't try to levrage it's desktop monopoly into this?
However when it comes to music players and online music stores Apple has the monopoly potental not Microsoft.
It will still be intresting to see what Microsoft trys to pull to make this happen. What FUD will they lauch at the iPOD? What functionility will they break in Windows?
What will Apple do? Sue? Adapt? My money is on BOTH. If Microsoft modifys Windows to break iTunes I think Apple will send in the techs and legal team at the same time.
They'll sue Microsoft for the R&D needed to make iTunes work and to keep Microsoft from pulling it again. And they'll put the best techs on the job... Outsourcing to India? Hell Outsource to every corner of the globe. Who's charging THE MOST today?
I don't actually exist.
...specializes in The Blues.
It will be interesting to see how MS fares against Apple in this market. It's all pretty much going to come down to execution. While MS has a history of out executing Apple in the business arena, I really don't think they can touch them when it comes to something more "artistic" like music.
One thing Microsoft could do (and I hope they do), is pay a commission to affiliates that make sales through their store. It would be nice if they opened it up with WebServices, and acted more as a music supply platform than the itms. Of course as long as they stick with wma they're pretty much out of the game.
Gurry also declined to say whether Microsoft's music store would be bundled into Windows or featured on its Windows Media playback software.
Well duh, he doesn't have to say it. Of course they're gonna advertise it for all it's worth.
If I was a dumb joe sixpak who just bought a new computer, and there's an icon on the desktop saying "Click here to receive free music from Microsoft MSTunes," then of course I'm gonna click on it.
You're going to open the next version of Media Player and find out that there will be a button to download music from MSTunes, sign up for a free trial of MSTunes, hear the latest and greatest hits, exclusively released on MSTunes, watch a pop concert live, exclusively for MSTunes customers, open up IE and find advertisements litering the MSN homepage advertising free music if you sign up for MSTunes, open up MSWord and have a chance to insert sound files into your documents (for whatever reason), exclusively from MSTunes...
They did it with MSN. They did it with IE. They did it with Media Player. Why ask if they're going to do it with their Tunes site?
Not to mention the tight connection (via the kernel, or whatever) between:
I have seen how this evil mess works together.
Start MSIE, visit www.hotmail.com. Boom, without warning MSN-Messenger has been started.
Start some mediafiles with Windows Media Player.. If you're lucky you might get a few IE-windows poping up, even though there are no errors. Don't even ask me how that's done.
With Microsoft's ever interlinking between the operating system and applications, you can bet that anything mediarelated (opening a mp3 in Windows Explorer) will result in a chainreaction of MS-events.
I imagine it will go somewhat like this:
Ofcourse any mentioning of MP3s in mail or messenger will result in a similar list as that one above.
I'm not saying it'll be a good product, but I expect it to do remarkably well.
Not Buzzword 2.0 compliant. Please speak english.
I bet Napster, MusicMatch, etc... are already getting their lawyers warmed up for this.
It's pretty easy to explain that a media player is an integral part of the OS. But if Microsoft actually tries to embed their store inside WMP instead of having it on the web in MSN.com and/or on their MSN service, I think they're going to run afoul of the Sherman Act in a serious way.
You say "Microsoft is so second rate". I recall seeing plenty of similar posts when the Xbox was announced
Xbox is in 2nd place, in console sales.
I'm not sayin'... I'm just sayin'.
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
I use Microsoft everyday
in Soviet Russia, Microsoft uses you!
oh wait....isnt that...
nevermind.
We're like rats, in some experiment! -- George Costanza
Well, this could be wrong, but it's one guess on Microsoft's media strategy.
Microsoft's most profitable and popular two products -- Office and Windows -- primarily rely on a single mechanism to ensure their continued dominance. IE probably uses this as at least a secondary mechanism, and the X-Box uses it as well.
The idea is to ensure that third-party-produced content is produced in a form that is only useful to someone that purchases a Microsoft product, jump-start an industry producing content for that product, and then erect as many barriers as possible to anyone attempting to produce a compatible, competing product. They then enjoy a profitable feedback loop as *more* third parties are forced more and more to produce content for their system. Since their product *is* the standard (bugs and all), 100% compatibility is not likely to happen, and can be avoided by making their product a moving target when necessary.
In the case of Windows, it's Windows applications. Windows is the Microsoft-produced tool that allows the consumer to deal with Windows applications. Because Windows is around, everyone develops for Windows, and because everyone develops for Windows, it's difficult to move to anything else, even in the case of poor product quality and pricing issues that are complained about today.
In the case of MSIE, it's HTML/CSS/etc.
In the case of Office, it's Office documents.
In the case of the X-Box, it's games for the X-Box.
In the case of Media Player, it is content in the Windows Media file format.
May we never see th
(i really am thinking lowest common denominator here)
and will the legislation stop here - should microsoft / apple / anyone be allowed to set the homepage for a browser? if you aren't allowed a link in the OS to a store the OS manufacturer runs (as i suspect most slashdotters would get upset about) then why should you be allowed to set the homepage?
just a thought.
[/paranoid-rant]
1.) To probably come up with their own song encryption scheme. Then make it incompatible with everyone else's especially APPLE.
2.) To market the hell out of online music store.
If all else fails I got a feeling M$ will release their own kazaa wanna be P2P software so that everyone gets everything free, and M$ will still win.
Everything you say is true. However, when you combine the also rans, their marketshare for portible media players is GREATER than apples. SO they are creating a format that the MAJORITY of players CAN play.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
...But unfotunately the RIAA record companies are not working in a free market, but are a cartel successfully sued for conspiring to fix prices. All the music stores are pricing around $1/song, and it's common knowledge that the stores, such as iTunes, aren't making any money at that price. So I wouldn't hold out for further discounts.
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I won't do it until they offer .OGG files!
Well, someone had to say it.. now move along...
I have been a user for about 10 years. This ends Feb 2014. The site's been ruined. I'm off. Dice, FU
It will almost certainly have an "effect" -- that is, it will affect the market.
Am I the only slashdot reader who rankles at our editors' lack of good English? Ferchrissakes, folks, read Strunk and White -- it's online these days.
Do you know what the difference between a horizontal and a vertical monopoly is?
No?
Then please do not post in these threads until this changes.
The story poster was very clearly trying to refer with the word "monopoly" to the fact that MS holds a monopoly in some markets, regardless of their status the music market. This is true. They perhaps stated this a little confusingly, but there is nothing unreasonable about what they have said.
Sorry to burst all the blind Steve Jobs fanbois but Apple may have the most market share in the mp3 player arena, but practically every single other mp3 that was ever manufactured supports WMA. I think that gives them plenty of leverage to enter the music business.
For the codec, AAC is quickly becoming a de facto openly governed codec for commercial music - excluding WMA of course. MP3 is out of the equation.
- 4r0g
You can argue the merits all day, but consumers don't know enough about the formats to make a choice. The real issue here is that Apple picked a format and restrictions that the music industry would accept.
MS is now looking to create a format that they can control, that they can force on Windows users, and that excludes competition that they don't like. This is the stuff illegal monopolies do. They are looking to force a market segment which they now control (Windows users) into making a choice beneficial to MS, rather than allowing market forces to act. The only reason they can legally do this is that Apple has a headstart in market share on the Windows platform, since iTunes & iTMS are available for Windows.
Consumers will arguably be driven to the Windows service ONLY because it will be integrated with MS products and will be one-click-easier that iTMS. Competition seldom results in a win by the technically better product; the simpler to use, better marketed, and "catchier" named product wins.
Faith is the very antithesis of reason, injudiciousness a critical component of spiritual devotion. Jon Krakauer
I don't understand what the big deal is here.
IRL there's a plethora (he said plethora) of different music retailers - some of them huge chains like HMV or Virgin (in the UK), others smaller and more independent. Some of the big dudes have taken a page out of the small dudes books and even carry more exotic flavours of music these days.
Let M$ come to market with their offering and add to the competition. As long as (and this is a big as long as) they stick to the rules of fair-play and don't try to undermine their competition, the consumer should benefit from music downloads that are cheaper than ever imagined possible.
My question is this: How long until some moron in D.C. decides that this means there are "alternatives" and try to make MP3 files illegal?
They have a long way to go. There is way too much market use of the format. It would be like making copy machines illegal at this point in time. Fine you can kill Xerox, but can you kill Cannon, HP, Minolta, Lexmark, and company? It'll be dificult to kill the idea behind a photocopy. It's just as hard to kill the format used by home bands, Public Domain, Court Records, Web Pages, etc. Everything from CDeX to Easy CD Creator to Apple, Rio, Creative Labs, use MP3 format extensively. It isn't going away soon even if you decide to change the gamebook overnight. If the format is killed, the idea of a sharable format will remain, just like photocopies will remain long after Xerox is told they can't do that anymore. (Hypothetical ban on photocopies)
The truth shall set you free!
You seem to forget that America is not the world. AOL software runs on Microsoft Windows, so that de facto tells you that it's used by a subset of the total Microsoft Windows users wordwide. AOL and sister companies are not that big outside America.
As soon as Microsoft want's to bind it's music shop to it's Windows, only governements can stop it. People will use it.
Unless the competition is better and easier to use, a la what Google made big.
they already have 3 buttons on the frontpanel that take me to MS websites inside the player, how many more do they need
you can see why EU is suing them over it, the rest of you will have to suck it up
Seems like they're trying to provide service for this?
what /. really wants to know if will the production of hardware for the service be outsourced or off-shored. Oh wait, most electronics are off-shored already. Nothing to see here. PMC will die off soon enough and blow several hundred million dollars before MS dumps the division.
Napster did not start the online music store craze. If we're talking actual online stores (as opposed to subscription services), Apple was the first. All subsequent ones, including Napster, Musicmatch, etc, have been pale imitators.
Yes, true.
And MS did it by giving IE away for free. Now, when something like Open Source comes along and gives that software away for free... Microsoft cries foul play!
"Do You Like Worms", by the Beach Boys
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
(Sung to the tune of "Stairway To Heaven")
There's a geek-boy who's sure all that glitters ain't gold
And he's buying his music from Bill Gates
And when he surfs there he knows if the stores are closed
With a click he can get what he came for
Woe oh oh oh oh oh
And he's buying his music from Bill Gates
There's a sign on the page but he wants to be sure
Because Microsoft's words have two meanings
There's a license that says all tracks are DRM'ed
And you cannot play them without Windows.
Woe oh oh oh oh oh
And he's buying some songs he can't copy
There's a feeling he gets when he reads down the page
And his credit card's shaking in worry
On his PC hard disk, Media Player's not there
Coz he doesn't use Microsoft Windows
Woe oh oh oh oh oh
He runs Linux because he likes freedom
And it's whispered that soon, if we all buy the tunes
That Microsoft will own all our PCs
And a new day will dawn for those who sold their souls
And in Redmond they'll echo with laughter
And it makes me wonder
If there's a backdoor in your Windows
Don't be alarmed now
It'll be the MS police in there
Yes there are two paths you can go by
but in the long run
There's still time to change the road you're on
Your head is humming and it won't go because you don't know
The penguin's calling you to join him
Dear geek-boy can't you ditch the Windows and did you know
Open Source lies on the whispering wind
And as we format our hard drives
Our Windows CDs in the bins
There walks a penguin we all know
Who shines white light and wants to show
How your hard-disk turns to gold
And if you listen very hard
Old Tux will speak to you at last
When all are one and one is all
To be a geek and have a soul
Woe oh oh oh oh oh
He's got Gentoo and Red Hat and Mandrake
There's a geek-boy who's got Linux on his hard-disk
And he's not buying music from MS
And when he needs stuff to hear if the stores are closed
With a click he can get it from Kazaa
And he's giving the finger to Bill Gates, uh uh uh.
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
Sony is about to roll out their online music store as well. They have weird deals with United Airlines and etc. Exchange frequent flyer miles for music?
Why do they feel a need to make a presence in (and dominate) every technological market possible?
Will it support Ogg ?
Get WORMs from MOMS? I just don't want to know.
Karma: It's all a bunch of tree-huggin' hippy crap!
Whenever we are presented with more than 2 choices we think things are "crowded" ? more choices a good thing, is it not?