Slashdot Mirror
Lawyers Using Databases To Grab Clients
bc90021 writes "It seems that lawyers are using jail-house email lists to send potential clients letters offering their services. One couple, on finding their son who'd been missing for two days, '...was astonished that deputies failed to call them when their son was arrested -- though contact and medical information was in the young man's wallet -- yet managed to inform people who wanted his business.'"
Capitalism at it's best.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
Particularly nauseating fact from this case was the company who proudly boasted "we are experts in drug cases" on the envelope.
Still, you shouldn't expect any more from these pond life.
Jolyon
Please read my Canon EOS tech blog at http://www.everyothershot.com
Great quote from the film: "North, this is America. Everybody needs a lawyer."
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Using spam to punish criminals. Priceless!
I wonder why they give out the emails of people that have been arrested. I can see some reason for giving out names, but e-mails? Is there actually a public benefit for this, other than letting the public spam those e-mail addresses or helping lawyers find clients?
The saying ambulance chaser...
C'mon folks...at least make the leeches work for their money..
Get out of jail today!
Want to make your member^H^H^H^H^H^Hjailtime longer^H^H^H^H^H^Hshorter? Just give Smith at Law a call, we will do the rest! Guaranteed results! You only have to take^H^H^H^Hmake one pill^H^H^H^Hcall!
Bored? Why not join a decent mess
To go to jail for spamming, and then get spammed by a lawyer?
They've been doing that for a while, at least in California. Someone goes through the records and collects addresses. My neighbor got a DUI, and he started getting lots of snail mail offers from lawyers.
I wonder if lawyers contacted OJ after his arrest...
riding round the world on an old motorcycle
Hmm. I would have liked to have known what the outcome of that was. I have a friend who is in a similar situation and he gets questioned all the time by people concerned for his well-being. But arrested on suspicion of using drugs? Just because he was acting erratic? Does that strike anyone else as strange?
I'd sue the pants off the casino and the arresting agency over that if I was him or his guardian. WTF is this? Arrest first and ask questions later? What have we come to?
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
you have to love the legal system here in the US...on the other hand it does make it easier to obtain a lawyer. www.lawyertree.com, when lawyers compete you win!
Not only does money talk, it also listens.
Seeing bad movies only encourages them. Watch responsibly
I wonder if this violates any privacy laws. The police just giving out a person information. If they give out what they were arrested for than that could be another issue. Don't you have to sign a waiver before they can give out that kind of info???
Evolution or ID?
Will this be a new punitive measure? "I hereby sentence you to six months in prison and one hundred pieces of spam."
_____
Thank you.
You have the right to remain silent.
Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law.
You have the right to be speak to an attorney, and to have an attorney present during any questioning.
If you cannot afford a lawyer, one will be provided for you at government expense.
You have the right to receive exciting new offers from spamvertise.com.
If you choose to opt out of our mailing list, your user preferences will be reset some time in the future.
Those who are innocent will want lawyers who relentlessly pursue the truth. The rest need lawyers who know what people can get away with. In our oppositional based legal system, the demand for scummy lawyers will be equal or greater than honest lawyers.
This is a strong indication that the American (and other) Societies seem to take precedence of profit over Social Responsibility.
IMHO: It should be the first step, to contact parents and relatives of the arrested/convicted, isn't this sort of important?
I used legalmatch.com recently when I needed a lawyer to help expunge an old issue but it turned out I had another year to wait- I wouldn't have minded if a respectable lawyer had contacted me about it when they knew I was ready to get it cleared- most people never get their record cleared and it can be a royal pain in the ass to have even the smallest offense held against you when you least expect it.
Creationists are a lot like zombies. Slow, but powerful and numerous. And they all want to eat our brains.
I have already seen lawyers giving advice on newgroups for free. They had the contact information in the signature and based on the quality of the answer given you already had an idea what to expect. Maybe the same is possible with email?! Of course personal data should not be disclosed without an agreement!
I actually used to run a small business that collected traffic ticket (and DUI) information from the counties and provided it to ticket law offices in a format they could use (i.e. mailing lists). This information was hosted on various gov't run BBSs; but, it is now available on the internet. And this was back in 1999! And the jail (who had been arrested the day before) data was available, but my clients were only interested in traffic citations and DUIs... My point? This has been going on for years, and the timing of the article suprised me. I think those people were especially upset since the police didn't call them (although they had gone through his wallet to determine and post his demographic info); however, the article seems to indicate that he was 18 or over, making you wonder if anything 'wrong' occurred in this situation. Annoying? Yes. Public information? Hey, it is. Interesting debate, though.
So I'm going to guess he is over 21. I'm going to have to ask any future arresting officers to please NOT call my parents. The fam doesn't need to know everytime I get a drunk and disorderly.
The thing about needing medication sucks, but its well within the realm of possibility that his health issue both doesn't present as an actual health issue and renders him unable or unwilling to notify the officers. If thats the case, nothing to see. IF the officers knew something was wrong and still failed to act, well then fsck them.
I carry contact and medical information too, but thats only for use if I am unconscious or otherwise unable to speak for myself. Don't call my mommy just because I get picked up. If the officers dug through the medical records of everyone they picked up, wouldn't we by crying invasion of privacy then too?
I want it on the record so that there's no misunderstanding on the part of future generations, or the current generation who's building the future:
I don't want to end up living in a Neal Stephenson novel. No, not even if I get to be Hiro Protagonist.
Reading this writeup reminded me of the scene in Snow Crash where we discover the police have outsourced incarceration, and take YT to The Clink. All that is left is dollars. The human equation is lost, and anyone holding a sense of morals or ethics is seen as an anachronism. I don't know about anyone else, but... Yuck.
Great books, but I wouldn't want to live there.
Schwab
Editor, A1-AAA AmeriCaptions
just publish all arrests by RSS to a few sites. everyone will love it! (not)
"You never want a serious crisis to go to waste." - Rahm Emanuel
First, I RTFA and IANAL. Criminal arrests are a matter of public record. If someone wants to make a buck on that, I have no problem with it. In the article it said that 1 of 10 arrested ended up using the service, which shows the detainees needed a lawyer. For the parents that didn't know their mentally challenged son was arrested, they should be angry with the police for not informing them. But they should be boarderline thankful that the lawyers did. If they hadn't been notified, and the son were to be locked up, signing away rights without representation, they'd be raising holy hell.
See the topic.
One of my many side jobs is procuring information for attorney's solicitation. Let me tell you, call it scummy or what not, but lawyers will go to any means possible to get their solicitation letters out. This is their livelyhood for 90% of them. It is not very surprising that the lawyers would have the information faster than the parents. And for those of you who might refer to this practice as scummy, remember that in the event that you might find yourself needing an attorney. Competitive soliciation drives the prices down, and in areas with a lot of attorney's soliciting, expect to find prices half of what you would find in more friendly, less competitive areas. Any advertisement can be called scummy until it benefits you personally.
"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers."
IIRC... the first spam was from a law firm...
LOL
I'd bet he politely asked to place a phone call, but the officer responded, "What good is a phone call if you're unable to speak?" The rest, as they say, is history.
...when you can chase paddy wagons instead? This redefines the term "captive clientele."
This is, after all, what capitalism claims to be good at: driving innovation. Use the rule of law to guide that innovation to more civic purposes. Be glad the innovation is there at all.
There is not near enough information in this article to make any kind of judgment on what happened.
Last week my brother arrested "Satan" (that's who he said he was)- I guess they might have let him keep harassing people while they tried to diagnose what his problem was but instead they took him in. It was meth so I guess you would be o.k. with it.
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
If the Titanic was loaded with lawyers, it wouldn't have been a disaster.
Contact your local bar association. Ask for their lawyer referral service.
This gets you lawyers that are reasonably reputable, and often the referral service will have a deal worked out so that the initial consultation isn't going to empty your bank account.
the super parent wants a serious discussion about this topic however i think that that person has failed to realize that in this Goerge W. Bush Utopia that some of us live in called the U.S. of A. that anyone not falling into line as "normal" is no longer left alone but harassed beyond belief until they either give up and become "normal" or die.
as others have pointed out a medical ID tag might have changed this occurence. if he was wearing an ID tag the officer (if smart) would have noticed and called a paramedic instead of arresting without questioning.
My roommate was arrested in November of last year. There were 10 solicitations in the mailbox 2 days later, 15 the next, and between 7 and 20 everyday for a week thereafter. (South Florida, if it makes a difference).
after all, spam WAS started by a couple of them...
, 00.html
according to this wired article anyway:
www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,19098
I just think it's interesting that every single form of excess in the US is frowned upon, except making obscene amounts of money. If you like sex too much, you're a sexaholic; if you take too many recreational substances, you're a drug abuser; if you eat too much you're a glutton; if you're very vocal about your beliefs or religion, you're a fanatic. However, if you make more money than any 1,000 people could spend in 10 lifetimes, you're an entrepreneur (sp?). Now, before I get flamed, I'm not saying that capitalism is bad, but when you take ANYTHING to an extreme, it's usually not a good thing. The main reason that Communism failed is that they took Marx's ideas to their logical extreme without any thought of human nature or simple compassion. Anyone remember "Lost Horizon"? When the head monk is telling Ronald Coleman's character that they do everything in moderation and therefore are more than moderately happy? Just something to think about...
If you where not a AC, I'd call you a Karma Slut. Not just "whore", but SLUT. I mean look, CNN does not require a subscription or login, and has never (will never) be "Slashdotted". So what is your point?
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
Towel off your head when you speak to your master!
I know when I got arrested the first thing I saw when I got home was about 20 letters from different city lawyers offering to get me off the hook for X sum of $. Really fast turn round these guys got. Step 1. Check arrest logs. Step 2. Find arrestieeees address. Step 3. Spam house of arrestieees with junkmail. Step 4. Collect CAASSSSSH!
If I sell a t-shirt with Michael Jordan's name on it I could get sued. Isn't this the same thing? If so, then why can't I get paid when my name is sold? If it isn't the same thing, how is it different and why don't I have a choice in the matter?
Speak truth to power.
People seem to think lawyers are like doctors or priests, but this is not the case. Lawyers are proficient at understanding, arguing, and otherwise working with "The Law". They are not priests. There is no real modern reason that lawyers should not use the same marketing tools every other business uses. Lawyers have a service and a product, not some Holy mission from God.
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
..you should ALWAYS take your ritalin.
Dustin - A different story...
In California, statute 5150 enables them to put anybody into a mental facilty against their will for 72 hours for observation. This is NOT the same as an arrest. Arrested people go to jail. Committed people go to mental institutions. This kid was in a mental institution. Unfortunately, I beleive the legal requirements for locking somebody up for mental illness are much less stringent then for being criminals -- pretty much just the cop's judgement. They don't have a case for "false arrest" unless he was actually charged with a crime.
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
It was slashdotted on 9/11 as I recall. But I do see your point. He was modded down to -1 at one point. I wonder who the heck modded him back up? What a waste of disk space.
I call troll on the grandparent.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
I know that if I were ever arrested, I'd rather have a lot of potential defense attorneys notified than my mom. For one thing, I'd need a lawyer, and for two, my mom is a frickin' moron. :)
For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
I'm a resident of Harris County (Houston ), and they've been doing this for at least 7 years ( which is how long I've been getting arrested as an adult ;) I'm 24. ).
Every damn time I get out of jail I end up w/ my mail box stuffed for at least a week w/ lawyers' ads. Even if I sat out my time and thus the case is closed.
And as far as calling his parents, unless his medical paperwork mentioned contact w/ a legal guardian, an adult's relatives are never contacted. Shit, you're lucky if you get your phone call until you make it to the main detention center ( which is a big help if you can make bail ).
PC moderators can suck my White pierced, tattooed dick. If you think pride == hate, s/dick/Aryan meat mallet/g.
I would love to get a team of Indian or Chinese lawyers defending me for the price of a domestic. If only they would allow remote video and audio in the courtroom : (
I like knowing that it costs them real money to try to contact me. I like that at least the post office is making money so my stamp prices won't have to increase so much. I like the satisfaction of watching the letters burn that you just don't get from deleting an email. Much more satisfying.
Could be illegal to do this....In a number of state, i.e. South Carolina and New York, it is illegal to use any public records (such as arrest records, property titles, mortgage records, etc.) for the purpose of solicitation.
Someone should check the states where these sharks are swimming to see if those states have such restrictions.... then the will need their own lawyers.
When people are pulled over where I live in the US for traffic stops, they must provide, on penalty of resisting arrest, and the class B misdemanor:
Name
SS#
What they are doing in the area, if they have business to be there.
Name of place going to, and phone number of contact.
Work company.
Position at work.
Why they are there.
Who is your boss at work, name and phone.
This info is then tossed in a database, and sold to anyone who wants.
I got a speeding ticket, less than a week later i had letters from 3 lawyers offering to "take care of it" for me. I had already had one take care of it, but it's interesting what is available to them.
JediLuke
-Do or Do Not, There is no Try
The real news here is that a law enforcement agency failed to notify a family, and instead notified advertising. They should be punished for that.
This is just what free market economics gives you. More and more advertising. More stupid ads. More mail and email spam. More nuisance phone calls. I don't think we need to allow advertising to mix with law enforcement.
-- Having a Creationist Museum is like having an Atheist place of worship
When does our government stop being hypocritical? When do laws actually have consequences against corporations? I'll tell you the answer to both of those questions: Not until politicians cannot take bribes or $10,000 dinners (lobbyists) as they call them, and when religion has nothing to do with government whatsoever. Until these two things are done, then we will continue to have a corrupt government where people look out for themselves more than the future of our country along with a government that contradicts itself every day.
If carrots got you drunk, rabbits would be fucked up. - Comedian Mitch Hedberg R.I.P. 03/30/68-2/24/05
I just got a summons that claims that my company was involved in a car accident in Florida in August 2002.
I don't live in Florida. My company has never done business in Florida. We have never had anyone do business in Florida on our behalf. But now I have to spend time and money fighting this $#@$#@ law suite in Florida created by some ambulance chaser in Florida.
Can anyone recommend a good lawyer in Florida?
If not, how about a really good lawyer joke. I could use one right about now.
Film at 11.
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
LoL - scum of the earth squared. If only we could somehow bring SCO into this equation I think we'd have the "most... evil... story... ever...".
;-)
cLive
-- Trinity in high heels carrying a whip: The donimatrix - there is no spoonerism
These are the same kind of people that search the obituaries or children's playgrounds for lawsuits. Instead of inventing new solutions to fix the old problems, they are inventing new problems to justify their old solution.
The police at our high school dance once gave the retarded kid a breathalyzer b/c they thought he was drunk. Poor guy probably still never had a drink in his life. At least they let him go once a teacher explained, and didn't subject him to further tests...
Are you nuts? You really want arrest information to be private? Open and public law enforcement and court records are the reason why we don't have secret courts, secret police and star chambers. Sheesh, use your noggin for something besides taking up valuable space!
I guess the "new" thing here is emailing the solicitation?
failed to call them ... inform people who wanted his business
just me, or bandwith issues aside, will spam filters become good enough, that instead of IRC, builiten boards... just broadcast all public messages to every email address in the world. Let the spam filters decide who would be interested.
filters figure out you want to know about your sons name, and criminal detention, in this state...
Would lawyers that specialize in harassment cases use this kind of tactic.
"After a series of complaints, Riverside County's deputy counsel, William Kenison, recently asked the sheriff's department to stop e-mailing daily arrest records to lawyers -- unless they sign a statement promising not to use the lists to pitch prospective clients."
ummm....what else are they going to use that data for?
just asking
A goal is a dream with a deadline
I liked it even better when I read all about it everywhere yesterday morning, when it was published.
If I were charged with a crime, and I didn't do it, I'd want a lawyer who could help me prove to the court and the world that I didn't do it, and get me off that way. If there were really no evidence that I hadn't done it, and lots that I had (which, outside of TV trials, seems unlikely), only then would I look to get off on a technicality. My preferred technicality would be finding the SOB who really did it.
If, on the other hand, I were guilty of whatever it was, I would want only to reduce my sentence. I'd probably plead guilty. The only time I'd do otherwise would be if I truly believe the law is unfair (for instance, if I were brought up on copyright infringement charges for having a few episodes of a show that doesn't yet exist on this continent on my computer).
We need more people willing to face the consequences of their actions. If people did, not only would we have fewer scumbag lawyers, I think we'd have fewer people that would need their services in the first place.
Dan Aris
Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
F*cking Parasites..
All lawyers should be rounded up and exterminated from the face of planet earth.
Lawyers have to reach UP to grab a meal of catfish shit.
SELECT vehicles FROM tbl_People WHERE ID='ambulance' AND country='US'
There are a huge number of yeast infections in this county. Probably because we're downriver from the bread factory.
Wow, we've found the one guy who saw that movie.
it's a nude woman. but i'm not surpirsed a slashdot reader doesnt know what a nude woman looks like (aww, i suck. i couldnt help it)
I've been arrested once (wrongly... I called the police for help with a drunk nut and they arrested me because some cops are LAZY ASSHOLES even though many are good, responsible people).
I believe this was on a Friday. By Monday, I had a dozen lawyer's advertisements in my mailbox offering to help me.
-- laws are the opinions of politicians --
Improper treatment by law enforcement, selective enforcement, dirty cops and judges. The Prosecutors use every trick they can, technical or not, to get people convicted. I want a lawyer who does the same.
Blar.
I had a friend who was in the university of washington law program. He loved scummy lawyer jokes, and had come up with the best way to get buisness. He wanted to put a blown up copy of his buisness card on the inside roof of ambulences.
Being called a dork on Slashdot must be like being called the retard in special ed.
I think its kind of wierd that they managed to get his email address. Did he keep it on a card in his wallet? Or did they interrogate him for hours?
I think they really should be astonished that their son used his one phone call to call someone else and not them. Maybe they should be mad at their son for getting arrested in the first place. And not the officers.
Now if he was a Minor then that's another matter entirely.
Can't have it both ways, Mr Bleeding Heart.
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
Wow. That's the most content-free piece of "journalism" I've seen in a while.
It plays the "parents don't know their kid was arrested" card.
It plays the "public info was used in a way you didn't know was happening" card.
It gives us no details about anything we could use to make a judgement about whether what happened was appropriate or not.
Reconstructing:
Cops are called to the scene of a (presumably, since otherwise they would have had to call his parents) legal adult acting "off".
Does he have a medic alert bracelet? Is he cooperative? It isn't said, but I'll give the cops the benefit of the doubt and say probably not, cause most people don't. I don't, even though I'm on meds. They aren't important enough that I feel I need it. That's my judgement call. And usually, the cops on the scene aren't actually allowed to go through his pockets to find anything more than id, which is usually pretty obvious, so they arrest him and he gets booked.
After he's booked for D&D (or whatever), someone goes through his wallet, finds medical info, and decides he really needs to be in a hospital, not jail. So off he's sent. Does he want his parents to be contacted? We don't know. Doesn't say. He's a legal adult, so there's no requirement to contact them. He's about to be shipped off to the nuthouse, but he's not technically incompetent for another 72 hours yet, so if he doesn't want them called, they won't be. That is still his right, isn't it?
Lawyers do as lawyers do. They'd have a designated person sitting there calling as people were booked if the email system wasn't set up. And this at least gets that freak out of the cops face/space.
Parents get pissy because they weren't contacted. News hound smells "scare" story and writes it up, rather badly.
Slashdot finds it because of the "wow, this publicly available information was sent through email! " connection.
How is this related to MRO again?
What is not acceptable is that the lawyers knew this kid was in trouble before the family did. Especially with a medical condition? That is just plain wrong.
> was astonished that deputies failed to call
> them when their son was arrested.
It most definitely is *not* the deputies
responsibility to inform anyone of someone's
arrest. It isn't the jail's either. The jail
is obligated to let the prisoner make his
mandated call at some point but I got news
for ya... the jail ain't running no concierge service.
What upset them was the fact that the letters from the paddy-wagon chasers arrived before a phone call from the sheriff's department. This is a 'get your priorities straight' call, not `don't give lawyers the names of the arrested' call.
In the context of the Patriot act, I'd be happy to know that at least someone with a vested interest in giving me at least some sort of support was likely to be informed of my arrest.
Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
Lawyers need to eat, same as tapeworms.
While there are a few honest lawyers, in my experience with the law over the past 10 years, I would say that over 97% of lawyers only care about money.
This should not be surprising to anyone, as the majority of lawyers make money by causing trouble for others (ie suing them). While there are legit activities for lawyers, the economy cannot sustain the current large number of lawyers that exist in the United States. Laywers need to make money, and they do so by suing people; therefore, the majority of lawyers actively seek out trouble (or often try to cause trouble).
A good example is here in Southern California. There are many lawyers that use a technique known as Legal Extortion to sue small businesses for often very small/minor (often entirely made up or bogus) infractions such as not having proper handicap access in the restrooms or such. Many of these small business do not have the money or resources to defend themselves against a lawsuit, so they end up settling for thousands of dollars. It is a shame that the US Legal system tends to encourage this behavior, often rewarding the most aggressive lawyers who actively seek out lawsuits.
If you file for divorce, you will get a lot of ads in the mail from divorce lawyers. If you buy a house, you get ads in the mail from mortgage brokers. If you buy a car, you get ads from the dealer you bought it at. Does this really deserve a /. story?
Since when is a slut worse than a whore?
Why didn't California just sell it directly to lawyers and double the money?
A NYC lawyer blogs. http://www.chuangblog.com/
A guy walks into a post office one day to see a very well-dressed, middle-aged, balding man standing at the counter methodically placing "Love" stamps on a huge stack of bright pink envelopes. Each envelope had hearts all over it. The man then took out a perfume bottle and sprayed scent all over the envelopes.
His curiosity getting the better of him, the guy goes up to the balding man and asks him what he is doing. The man says "I'm sending out 1,000 Valentines cards signed, 'Guess who?'"
"But why would you want to do that?"
"I'm a divorce attorney," the man replied
At least criminal defense attorneys aren't actively drumming up business yet ;-)
If you where not a AC, I'd call you a Karma Slut. Not just "whore", but SLUT.
The difference being is that a whore gets paid.
What?
Oh shave off your little-bitty moustache, and stop whining about the fact that the jews own everything. Next time, try learning to read before complaining that somebody took your job. Oh, and trust me, that White mask fashion went out in the '60s. SDSTFU
My Favourite Meme
We are the Pimps Whores Association of America. If we find anybody doing it for free, we'll sue their asses, and we'll start with colleges. SAY NO TO SLUTS. It's unfair to the artists...er.. I mean whores..Peer-to-peer fucking is wrong. Purchase your sex from the original sellers. Stop violating copyrights.
My Favourite Meme
A slut just FUCKS AROUND on you with your best friend, with a WHORE you know where you stand.
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck