Slashdot Mirror
Developing Open Source Defense Projects
An anonymous reader writes "I'm a developer looking to develop an open source surface-to-air missile guidance system, with the aim of helping developing nations develop low-cost missile defense systems to aid them against attack by the warplanes of invading forces. However, given the very nature of the project, I feel I may be walking into a bit of a minefield regarding the legalities of such a project, since, as I'm sure you can imagine, this project could easily benefit hostile nations was well as relatively peaceful ones! Unfortunately, since Google does not seem to shed much light on the subject, I'd be very interested in hearing Slashdot's views on the matter, especially some advice from those in the know about the legal matters - whether there would be any restrictions (exports, perhaps?) or whether it would be simply plain illegal to develop!"
You can't share the technology with other civilizations!
Imagine what will happen if the Terrans start building Protoss cannons that can strike ground and air targets, or the Zerg start equipping Zerglings with stimpacks! The results would... be...
Wait, was that just a computer game?
You are in error. No-one is screaming. Thank you for your cooperation.
I'm sure if you ask really nicely they'll consider opening one of their projects for you.
There was Cowboy Neal at the wheel of a bus to never-ever land.
Perhaps the US Government would like to contribute some code to your project.
Well being April 1, I wont take this seriously.
Beta Testing your product will sure be a bitch, and it will be hard to keep good beta testers.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Missile Command (Atari) works great and is dirt cheap now-a-days.
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
Who will you sue when it blows up the wrong target?
I'm getting sick of these April Fool's posts... We all already know that Open Source Defense Projects is an oxymoron, you know source has to be closed to be truely secure.
Can we have a real story now?
The Open Source Hammer in the Sky protocol suite is what you are looking for. I use the OSHITS protocol to defend my small volcanic (it's not active, thankfully) island.
Oh, I also need to mention that OSHITS is GPL-compliant, so feel free to modify it in any way you'd like. It can be found at OSHITS.com*
The OSHITS protocol suite has also been through the legal ringer, in both the EU and the US.
In fact, the Supreme Court and the UN Tribunal Council both agreed, OSHITS is legal and quite good for use. Thanks and have a great day.
*web address doesn't render properly on IE. User must use an old version of Netscape.
Sent from your iPad.
First thing, don't be inside of the US developing it. The US doesn't want anything in the way of them rolling over any foreign countries that they find Oil in.
Otherwise, I'd love to see such a system out there. I've always drafted up ideas for tanks, planes, missile guidence systems, but being in the US, there's no way I could ever develop them.
Karma Whoring for Fun and Profit.
The story seem credible up until that part :o)
flossie
Write now. Defend liberty
Hey, man. You have the right to bear arms. Missiles are arms.
Now lets party.
I demand a filter option for 'Stupid April Fools' stories
perhaps you should write your controlling app using .NET technology?
Food: It's whats for dinner
www.coxmodels.com
:P
Those estes rockets are really cheap.
Why waste time developing a new system, when you can buy really nice ones on the black market for next to nothing?
Obviously this project will need something that allows fast access and data transfer. I would recommend setting a webserver on the missle that would be able to interact with the controlling machine through a java interface. Putting an 802.11a wireless interface on the missle would probably be the best idea so that you would have a large enough area to access the missle.
I may not be the first and/or only one to think of this, but this seems to be a proven formula:
1. Post article on Slashdot on April 1st
2. ???
3. Profit!
Sigs for Nerds. Sigs that Matter.
Missle defense is just going to create another arms race as countries build weapons that can get past them.
An open source missile defence would be its very nature be the easiest to fool, so I don't necessarily see the use.
Aside from all that, good luck.
Dance like no ones looking and love like it's never going to hurt.
Just make it obfuscated or unreadable
:D
then you won't have a problem about people
reading your source or trying to impliment
it without you knowing
Or.. put a big huge bug in the source that has
to be commented out or something for it to
compile !!
-- my thoughts
he demonstrated by A plus B minus C divided by Z that the sheep must be red, and die of the rot
You just need to stand at the border with large baseball or cricket bats. Planes hate bats, and bats are sympathetic to American causes. Evil nations would use pointed sticks. So if you develop a system that can tell the difference between pointed sticks (evil) and baseball bats (good), no problem. I'm sure any ol' RFID would be useful in a good American or British bat.
riding round the world on an old motorcycle
Michael isn't intentionally picking April Fools stories. He's actually following his normal selection patern, it's just today that we're willing to consider them jokes....
Man, promise me you'll share the videos of your real-life tests =)
____
nico
Nico-Live
That being said, how much help is the software without precision aviation hardware? And wouldn't the software you write be tied to some particular hardware that may or may not be hard for a typical nation's defense forces to obtain?
Those are my thoughts.
"Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent
OK, michael must be stopped...
perhaps someone here chould develop a ground-to-slashdot editor missile system so we can get on with the regular dupes and SCO stories?
Schrodinger's cat is either dead or really pissed off...
I know this might sound silly, but here's a really simple answer for you:
LOOK AT THE DATE YOU BUMBLING FOOL
That is a LAME April Fools Day joke dude. I mean, it isn't even funny.
Why waste time working on weapons. Use your skills for good. Something like software to route food in underdeveloped nations. If this is an April's Fools post, it is quite uninspired.
harmonious design
I think O'Reilly has a Munitions book that includes surface to air missiles and a host of other goodies (with code snippets).
I can't remember what's on the cover.
Slashdot Syndrome: the sudden, extreme urge to correct someone in order to validate one's self.
Dun't worry yurself 'bout the legaltys. 'Ell, I owns one a dem dere new-clear weapons and no one's dun gone'n fussed ta me about it. Course, I ain't told no one 'bout it either. B'Sides, it's my second amender-ment right!
If you want some more info, go to: http://www.interestingprojects.com/cruisemissile/p rocurement.shtml.
--- "To pee or not to pee, that is the question." ---
... KICBM?
or GMissile?
Beta testers are sure gonna be a hard thing to find when bugs crop up.
I have a BS in BS.
This fits in just a little too well with some recent "Ask Slashdot" stories.
"I'm a moron. How can I be less of a moron? Should I not be a moron at all? Or should I be even more moronic?" (bitchslapping ensues, mostly by those too bored to restrain themselves)
Premature optimization is the root of all evil
Which is worse? To feed trolls by posting replies, or to reply to any story posted on Slashdot on April 1?
The answer to the question is of course: ITAR, the International Traffic in Arms Regulations, which is detailed here: http://pmdtc.org/reference.htm
"127.1 Violations.
(a) It is unlawful:
(1) To export or attempt to export
from the United States any defense article
or technical data or to furnish
any defense service for which a license
or written approval is required by this
subchapter without first obtaining the
required license or written approval
from the Office of Defense Trade Controls;"
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside a dog, its too dark to read.
10. Nuclear landmines kept warm by being packed with live penguins
9. The Gentoo Torpedo
8. *BSD WMD (this one is buried deep so you can't find it)
7. SDI SDK
6. The *real* Mozilla: a 600' tall flame-breathing Japanese monster.
5. Neutron GAIM
4. The BeoWulfowitz Cluster
3. Sun OpenWarfare project
2. The Doomsday Linux
1. Cmdr Taco
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
Sounds like this one hits a little too close to home for the slashbots.
... confusion ... pain ... must jerk knee violently
open source ideology being mocked
You're the dork for thinking this was a real story. Are you that dense that you haven't noticed the pattern yet?
It's a no-brainer.
I submit that this is proof that michael is a long-running hoax here on /. . That would explain a lot of things, that's the psuedonym the other editurs hide behind when being an ass.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
I thought it was kind of funny, but I'd put money on it that they have your phones tapped right now just to make sure. Better put your tin foil hat on and start praying that the feds figure you are just joking.
Maybe you should try making fun of a bunch of sissies that can't do anything about it. Maybe a nice Canada joke? Or better yet, make fun of the stupid, like the rest of us do. At least they won't get it.
Yes sir, I like it!
"Hmm. I am to metaphor cheese as metaphor cheese is to transitive verb crackers!"
And yes, this is a troll, too.
Open Source Missile, a la google.
What is your IP?
Well, these april fools joke posts are getting a bit annoying. But I'll reply anyhow.. Making defensive (or offensive) systems open source is pure insanity. You might as well put a giant target on whatever you are trying to protect, with giant flashing neon lights and have them dump out massive ammounts of RF so they'd be even easier to lock on to. You could have come up with a better April Fools post.
The cost of the actual hardware would be ASTRONOMICAL compared to the software. How much of a savings will open source software offer in the face of billions? Missiles ain't cheap. Okay, sounds like fun and all... Interesting project. Enjoy yourself. But come on!
No one will fall for that one.
?
Maybe this guy can contribute to the project!
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
or was it a camel.. I'm not sure
"Hmm. I am to metaphor cheese as metaphor cheese is to transitive verb crackers!"
This place NSWC Crane used to design such systems. Don't know if they do anymore......
CMDRTACO CHECK YOUR EMAIL!
No, this is just the answer to that guy in New Zealand with the DIY cruise missle! Hey, you wouldn't be that guys neighbor, would you? I'm beginning to understand now...
All I know is that if I were a kid in his neighborhood, I wouldn't be walking on his grass...
So long as you only market them at the Open Source Defense Industry trade show, or the OSDI, which is being held, coincidentally, today.
Missile Command
Maybe it's just me, but I think this story is funny. Maybe I'm just comparing it to the previous one so I'm biased.
[Missle defense is just going to create another arms race as countries build weapons that can get past them.]
Because everyone knows the sword was invented after the shield.
[An open source missile defence would be its very nature be the easiest to fool, so I don't necessarily see the use.]
Just like everyone can hack OpenBSD because it's open source.
The only real problems with the plan are policitians and lawyers.
Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
It will be easy to keep good beta testers, they are the ones who survive because they are so good at dodging. The trick is recruiting new beta testers, and keeping them around long enough to become good beta testers.
As your code improves, it will increasingly weed out the beta testers who are not quite good enough. The really good beta testers will improve as your code improves, and will take your improvments as just the motivation they need to keep on improving.
Your product will be ready for release when you run out of beta testers.
Infuriate left and right
Please make sure portability is in the specifications.
There is a need to fit a unit in an inconspicuous van or truck which can be left near a major airport.
Target selection is not an issue, any plane will do.
I'm sorry... WHOSE site is this, again?
(Y)ours?
No?
Didn't think so.
Oh go ahead. Flamebait? Troll?
I had a sucky sig.
Anti-terrorist unit dispatched. Don't resist, they are authorised to use lethal force. Lay on the ground immediately, face down, put your hands over head and wait for arrival of the security team.
There you are, staring at me again.
who cares? it's still stupid.
the internet is knee deep in instructions on how to build and h-bomb.
2 1337 4 u!
I like this idea because, as it stands, the price for this type of software is artificially inflated.
Right now, terrorists' funding is being stretched quite thin because of increased costs for heroin production in Afghanistan. So, anywhere that they can cut costs, they want to. Buying guided missiles from former Soviet block nations can be quite costly, and a more cost effective solution involves cutting out the middle man and building them "in-cave."
I'm not sure about legal issues, but perhaps Syria or Lebanon or other countries would be interested in supporting you. Just watch out for those pesky CIA dudes that are trying to kill your ass.
Take it easy? I'll take it anyway I can get it . . .
This should definately be part of devfs. You should be able to say something like:
dd if=/dev/nuke of=/dev/[your enemy] count=5
Good luck!
Haha. Notice that michael is the one posting all these lame-ass 'jokes'...
"The chicken warmed nukes were hilarious"
Believe it or not that's totally true. I'm not kidding.
I thought it was funny as hell. I guess slashdotters can't see the humour in themselves. i.e All open source projects are Good, all government restrictions on software are Bad.
My only real complaint is there are just too damn many April fools jokes on slashdot. If the majority of the stories were actually real and only a few stories were jokes it'd be much easier to put one over on everyone.
AccountKiller
Actually, I just checked CPAN, and it looks like there is already a Perl module that does it. Oh well. Maybe think of soemthing else to work on?
its easy to buy these missiles on the black market, much more so than it is to develop them. if you are serious then i would say suck it up do your own research and read the genenva conventions about what the actual limitations are on these weapons. other than this stop wasting oxygen.
As soon as you release an open missile guidance system for surface to air, someone's going to hack the code to make them surface to SCO missiles.
"It was a summer's tale: Just a boy, his Linux, and a head full of dreams..."
I think you pretty much have to do the work in one of the beneficiary countries. You'll need access to anti-aircraft weapons for testing, after all.
Even then, you are likely to have trouble getting permission to give it to anyone else. You might have to smuggle the software out and distribute it as warez. If caught you are likely to be prosecuted as a "terrorist".
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
Due to the patriot act we've had to curtail certain rights. The seven words you can't say on television now have been expanded to 256. The first additions were the words "in god we trust". You have missles for arms? This could be a problem, as yow may know, smoking prohibited in public places.
Well, on a serious note, there's no law against designing weapons systems....there are a number of small US companies that do so. However, if you want to sell it outside the US, you'd better be VERY careful to cross your T's and dot your I's and get valid export permits and documenation. They do not laugh about that at all. But, there's nothing special you have to have to develop software, and the non-lethal parts of the system. Actual warheads, would be a different matter tho...
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
-1 Willie Nelson Reference
I thought the April Fool's jokes were getting out of hand, but now we're being cruel...
Sure I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
So, I'm thinking, wouldn't it be fun to open such a project on Source Forge? Then I thought - I'll bet somebody did. (yeah, go to the link, it's there).
Kinetic stupidity has a new brand leader: Allen Zadr.
Today, April 1st, I am building a nuclear device in my back yard, and I need some advice. First off, how do I separate Uranium-235 in sufficient quantities? Secondly, I don't have a lead suit to work in... Is it ok if i wrap myself in aluminum foil?
My third question was going to be where to find an open source guidance system for my delivery device- thank you Sourceforge and Mr. Anonymous!
A witty saying proves you are wittier than the next guy.
despite what most of you readers are saying, its NOT illegal to develop this. and for the same reasons i can post bomb making instructions on line, or print them in books. as long as you aren't actually implementing it, or selling it to some terrorists, its legal.
from the real-submissions-unedited dept.
from AP Newswire: A humorless group of secret service agents shut down slashdot.org for almost 2 hours today while computer forensic analysts tore apart servers and examined archived posts concerning a rumored "open source missle guidance software" project. Agents permitted resumption of services after dragging an unidentified individual out of the company's offices who was screaming "It is april fools day! It was just a joke! It was funny!"
Leonard McButcheeks, press agent for the Dept. of Homeland Security stated "we will investigate this situation further but the US Secret Service does not have a sense of humor as far as we know."
.. the launch codes! And the launch computer should run windows 95 and have a permanent, non-firewalled internet connection. You do that, and I'll open-source my very own doomsday worm (development is still in an early phase, the release is expexted around april 1, 2005 :)).
"It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." - Anton LaVey
Step 1) Get a dual B.S. degree in Computer Science and Signals and Systems.
Step 2) Get a M.S. in Physics, with a core focus on Aerodynamics.
Step 3) Get a P.H.D. (or 8 years of field experience with Boeing equivalent) in Advanced Automated Flight Systems Development.
Step 4) Obtain a suitable number (50 ought to do) of gyro-guided surface-to-air missles for testing (try www.ebay.co.ussr, they usually have great deals this time of year what with munitions bunker spring cleanings and all)
Step 5) Develop!
Plan B:
Step 1) Break into NORAD and steal the source for their guidance systems.
Step 2) Sell it.
I gotta say, Plan B sounds a whole lot easier than A.
-- I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist. It's not my fault that life sucks so much. --
man, /. is teh suck on April 1. goodbye till tomorrow. until then i'll be reading the last 2 months of dilbert.com
What a wonderful idea! I know that whenever I'm planning on doing something that mightpossibly get me charged with aiding and abetting terrorism the first place I'd check for legal advice is Slashdot.
Ever heard of the "Gerald Bull Supercanon" project? If I where you I will not only be concerned about the legality of the project. By doing that kind of project you'll become an unofficial enemy of many industrial country's and that's the perfect scenario to finish like this guy. Is basic project wasn't mean, he just wanted to develop a cheap way to send payload in space but because he was helping enemy nations he got more than he bargained for. Even if he was a Canadian Citizen (I think) he wasn't out of reach of the Mossad...
Yahh, hiii haaaaa! -Major Kong, from Dr. Strangelove
Isn't this proof that Open Source people are nuts?
cruise missle? amateur!
the internet is knee deep in instructions on how to build and h-bomb.
Dude, I'm not touching that link through ten anonymous proxy servers...
The world has enough weapons. April 1st or not.
Take all the rules and regulations of ITAR and the Patriot Act together, and it's illegal to just think of doing something like that.
I don't know how many times I've to explain that again and again to my co-workers. I just back from explaining to a manager of such question, only found the same thing in /. :)
:)
For GPL derivative work:
YOU ARE NOT REQUIRED TO DISTRIBUTE THE SOURCE WHEN YOU AREN'T GOING TO DISTRIBUTE THE BINARY.
For tailor-made projects which the result work are used inhouse you don't need to worry too much about leakage of secret. Nobody force you to release the source of the derivatives.
In this connection, GPL is especially desirable for Government projects, as the binaries of such GPL derivatives can be distributed without source code, when distributed among governmental departments. (see FAQ)
Finally if you HAVE to distribute the result products and don't want to share the sources with your customers. Just TALK to the original author of the GPL sources your project derived from for a seperate license desirable for your distribution. Pay them decently, we need to feed our family and pay mortgage.
Instead of all these lame April Fool's jokes every year, it might be nice one day (not necessarilly April Fool's) to have all articles that are ordinarilly rejected. I'm sure there are lots of incredibly lame, and stupid stories suggested every day. I would think that at least some of them would be (unintentionally) more humorous than many of these April Fool's jokes.
http://www.popularculturegaming.com -- my blog about the culture of videogame players
Actually, i don't think a missile guidance system would be of much use to a peaceful nation.
Nope, the hard part of developing an open-source defense project is not the legality or even the morality. It's not even the top secret/SCI clearances you'd have to get for everybody who worked on the project. It's the money. Not the cost, since it's presumed you'd do the work for free and give the software away. It's the fact that a defense project isn't a defense project unless you are spending a lot of money. So what i'd suggest is that you draft a *proposal* to develop an open source project for some branch of the military, then form an alliance with Northrop-Grumman or some other big-time defense contractor. Ask for *at least* 50 million dollars, and don't call your project open source, but rather network-centric symbolic code acquisition system (and make sure you thereafter abbreviate it as NCSCAS). Then go off and develop your guidance system, and spend the money however you want. Trust me, nobody will ever know the difference
How many awesome hoaxes are completely blown because the dupes have been tipped off because there's NOTHING but hoaxes- and mostly lame ones at that.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
if you apply for the job at google you could continue this project in your "20%" time and since laws have no effect in space you will be fine. Happy April 1st
this sig intentionally left blank
The act of obtaining, delivering, communicating, or the receiving information about the national defense with an intent, or reason to believe, that the information may be used to the injury of the United States OR TO THE ADVANTAGE OF ANY FORGIEN NATION. (emphasis mine)
poster
From what I can tell this project is already stable and ready for production. It even has a sophisticated simulator to test the missile firing alogrythms if you don't happen to actually have a real missile to fire. Check out the source code.
[Serious] Its still april fools somewhere....
The idea is to shoot off a rocket and intercept another rocket or aircraft.
1.) Its like hitting a baseball with a needle as its about to go over the fence.
2.) It can't be radio control, radio waves are easily jammed/over powered, you don't want script kiddies hacking into them either.
3.) Its not like anyone could pilot one via RC and actually hit anything. (Its moving too fast and its hitting too small of a target)
As for building one for less than $1000, right... first off the explosive payload cost alot more than $1000. High frequency/low power video transmitters are pretty much line of sight only, you would have to be able to see the target to get a video signal. Then there is dopplar effect, this thing has to be moving pretty damn fast so no one can shoot it down with a handgun, standard RC equipment mostlikely won't work because the carrier will be shifting due to dopplar effect. GPS isn't much good either, too much error, easily jammed, etc.. Also with radio links your location is a dead give away, soon as you power your transmitter up your dead in a war situation.
If a terrorest wanted to build a cruise missile it would cost alot but its still pretty easy and it wouldn't be RC. For navigation they could simply use any digital signals, cell phones, etc... Dosn't neccessarly have to use GPS. It would simply follow a pre planed route flying fast enough and be small enough to get past defences.
Automated flying is pretty simple, you just program it to keep a steady altiude and heading untill it reaches a waypoint. Autopilot has been around for a long time. Its taking off and landing are the hard parts. In the case of a cruise missile it dosn't have to land, and taking off can be RC.
Another problem with RC planes is that they can't carry any payload, putting a camera and transmitter is a stretch. Explosives are not very light, they require a heavy metal encloser todo any damage(the pressure of the expanding gasses has to build inside first).
As for using off the shelf model rocket motors, the thrust is way too short, model rocket motors only burn for a few seconds at most. They are also pretty heavy for the amount of thrust. It would have to be a liqude fueled motor to have a range of 5 miles. Model jet engions are usually not real jet engions, they are usually ducted fans and are not nearly as fast as a rocket.
For it todo any real damage it has to be faster or almost as fast as sound, if you can hear it comming everyone has time to get away or shoot it down.
So in short, for a guided missle to be effective, it has to be fast, non-RC and carry a good payload.
God, root, what is the difference?
But if the evil nations use pointed sticks, should we have a lever to release the Bengal Tiger just in case they attack? Heck, what if they attack us with a banana?
The only reason we have the rights we have is that people just like us died to gain those rights. -- Cheerio Boy
Lots of programmers, and they have nukes there too, so it should be easy for them to do field tests of your software. As for the "evil nations" issue, you can just slap a paragraph in the license agreement in the style of all crypto software: If you reside in one of these evil nations, you cannot use this software. Please refrain from using this software. The biggest problem I see with your software is the hardware requirements.
Go hug some trees.
Sorry, but I'm having a problem developing my open-source missle guidance project. I'm currently using GPS and a reverse lookup database to locate and lock onto the Internet host closest to the intended target. I then use ping to track the success of my software. I'm looking for a willing volunteer, and their IP address, to join my project as my previous testing using the loopback address caused my code to dump core all over the place.
As Mr. Garrison of South Park says, "There are no stupid people. Only stupid questions."
We can't get a missile defense system working here. Imagine how embarrasing if say Iceland developed a missile defense system or even Borneo before the US of A.
Oh wait. It's an April Fool's joke. Excuse me while I bang my head on my desk.
"You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
I can't find it now, but about a year ago or so I read up on a guy's website about the project he was trying to create a home-built guided missile, through GPS. It was down under, either in Australia or New Zealand. He was doing real well for a while, until the authorities caught wind of it, then he got all legal hell. He was making some real strides though. And that was no joke!
Anyone know where that site went off to?
Whoa, we have the right to bear arms? That would be cool!
If I had some bear arms, I bet I could crush things like grapefruits in 2 seconds. I think I could probably lift cars too! That would be so helpful in the morning commute! Also, no bully would even think about stealing your lunch money!
And think of how many european chicks you would get with bear arms! European chicks love those hairy arms!
One question I would have is: Do we only have the right to a certain kind of bears' arms? Because I think I would like to change it up every once in a while. Like maybe something like this:
During the day I would wear black bear arms to work.
When I go to the gym I think I would wear Grizzly bear arms to get REALLY PUMPED UP!!!
And on the weekends I would wear polar bear arms, so i can be styling when I go out to the clubs.
When is the government gonna give me my bear arms? I can't wait!
Notwithstanding the possiblility that this entire post is an elaborate hoax in keeping with the USA April First tradition, I must say that helping anyone develop a surface-to-air missile is an unethical use of open source method.
There are far too many people running around who would use the technology to shoot down commercial airliners during their critical take-off and landing approaches. Knowingly allowing a technical contribution from oneself to be used for mass murder is unethical. I am not a lawyer, but I would believe that it is traditionally illegal under the 'accessory to murder' classification and most certainly under the vague new anti-terrorism laws being enacted in the OCED countries.
Of course, this only applies to individuals. If you are part of military defense contractor corporation, you will be getting large sums of money to develop the same technology and distribute it to 'friendly' countries. Representives from these countries will then distribute this technology to their various relatives in various terrorist organizations.
These groups will undoubtably commit acts of mass murder which will lead to the call for more funds spent developing new mass-murder technology (excuse me, defense technology) R&D contracts. The new technology will be distributed to 'friendly' governments who will distibute it to their relatives in terrorist groups... And the circle begins anew.
Terrorism will stop when all the young men who are willing to commit mass-murder for a cause have been identified and killed, AND, when the giant western military contractors stop making huge amounts of money developing mass-murder technology (like surface-to-air missles) that make the whole cycle possible.
Thank you,
Simonetta
Unlike today's slashdot "prank" postings, that made me laugh!
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Doing this by yourself would be, by its very definition, illegal. You would be producing, for export, a technology that is deemed "munitions," and thus subject to Dept. of Commerce Export controls. Making it open-source would also put you at risk of being deemed an exporter, just like Phil Zimmerman had to deal with. In this case, though, the argument could not be made that your product directly helps freedom of speech, or any other civil right for that matter, and you'd be screwed.
Your safest option, but the one that brings the greatest risk of your ideas being bastardized, is to do it under the auspices of a defense contractor. They know the ins and outs, and you could sell it to them (after you came up with a fairly rough proof of concept) as a new product offering that they could make money selling to smaller nations, more cheaply than their higher-end stuff. Kind of like an entry-level product line. But even in this situation, open-sourcing it is essentially going to be suicide.
For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
What about creating a FPS that takes place in Flatland? :D
The game window could be a few pixels tall, just a horizontal line above (or below) the screen.
You could play unoticed!
... the guy building a cruise missle in his garage for under $5k. He actually says he'll make all the plans and specs available for the missle except the guidance control software because he deemed that too sensitive.
-1 "Smarter than the Moderators"
Even simpler plans and cutaway drawing here
Usually the best Ideas originate as jokes. Could this be one of them?
On the other hand most government projects are jokes. So why can't /. have a few!?
Never Politically Correct ~ I prefer the facts If you don't like what I say, get a life, or comment yourself.
if your a us citizen then us export laws apply to you. this is a huge set of laws aimmed at keeping you from exporting anything that could threaten the us and its property in a manner of speaking. It doesnt stop you from exporting it but there are literally thousands of guidelines to go by from it and there are laws that if you violate them you are subject to arrest, jail time and fines if found guilty.
On the lighter side, there was an earlier post that said this has already been done and it has. i cant remember the project name but it was on a few open source sites a few years ago. It even had directions on what hardware you would need and places you could get it.
If you really do want to do it just research laws that have to do with it or consult a export law expert on it. No need to get arrested for not doing the proper research.
Also if you are not a us citizen many other countries also have similar laws so check around.
And i wouldnt doubt that if you do it that your going to have certain agencies watching what you do.
ender_pete
(please don't shoot)
.... are built by the full knowledge of every government contractor and government out there that:
A-human beings steal a lot
B-some of these "legitimate" missiles are going to suffer "inventory shrinkage"
C-they will and have wind up on the black market
In the US, even the official sources are an open air bazaar (google for the huntsville alabama scandals)
Even nuke tech gets lost/stolen, informed rumor has it that's how israel (which to this day refuses to sign the nuclear non proliferation treaty) was able to build it's first nukes, they were given or sold the stuff straight from US arsenals, but then it was reported as "lost". uh huh, sure it was, same as the deliberate fires set around the grounds at los alamos let some rogue group steal some critical info. Same as Saddam got critical WMD info and hardware from a variety of western nations, including the US.
Wheels within wheels within intrigues around global power/money. Weapons are just too valuable, and human beings too weak to deal with the temptations. Sucks, but there ya go.
I know this is an april fools message, but reality is, the jenni is out of the bottle on missile technology, and the cork has been thrown away.
http://www.wassenaar.org/
look for prohibited software, and technology
Building a missile system to seek a radiation source, be it emissive or reflected, is actually pretty easy. Building it so that it will damage said radiation source is very difficult. Why? Terminal Flight Profile.
Think about it. If you want to intercept a target object moving at a certain rate of speed at a certain aspect angle, you might have to make a severe turn in the final seconds of the closing maneuver to actually make contact with your target. If the seek logic therefore is simply to steer directly toward the source of radiation, your PK (probability of kill) will go way down, and it will be trivially easy to evade the missile. There are two basic ways to solve this problem:
- proximity fusing
- better TFP logic
Proximity fusing was used extensively by the Soviets in their very successful early model guided SAMs. The general concept goes something like this: screw trying to hit it, just get close and explode. In keeping with their design philosophy of simple, hardy weapons systems, their SA-2 missiles would detect the range to target, and their TFP was simply to go off like an aerial depth charge, filling the sky with searing shrapnel. The downside of this approach is that in order to be effective, you must use a significant quantity of explosive. This increases the fuel requirements, and the size of the missile, launch system, and supporting hardware, and makes the overall system more expensive to use.Another problem with this approach is that by using very simple guidance logic, the weapon has virtually no capability to overcome enemy countermeasures. This became such a problem in Veitnam that during the defense of Hanoi, SA-2s were actually fired at attacking B-52s without the guidance system active, set to simply explode at a certain height, much like the function of a depth charge against submarines. Not a very effective way to bring down capitalist pigs.
In order to deal with any level of sophistication in enemy countermeasure technology, some level of intelligent guidance is required. This calls for some sort of logic, as demonstrated by the following simplified example:
- At 1000 meters range to target, begin computing intercept solution for a turn to take place at 100 meters range to lead the target
.
- Update solution as frequently as hardware allows
- Execute TFP turn at 100 meters range.
These sorts of instructions would be relatively easy to implement on any basic computer hardware, and once you have a platform capable of this sort of programming, adding features such as countermeasure detection and reacquisition after miss is relatively easy. The physics can be modelled on a computer, and you can develop what amounts to robotic intelligence to guide your missiles. Before you know it, you'll be firing your own AMRAAMs!who are those slashdot people? they swept over like Mongol-Tartars.
You are probably violating some of SCO's intellectual property. Just send them $699 to be on the safe side.
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Be faithful to your obsessions. Identify them and be faithful to them, let them guide you like a sleepwalker. JG Ballard
Well, make sure you get a permit from your government first, or your open source missile project could end up being shut down: DIY Cruise Missile Grounded.
Trusted Computing FAQ | Free Dawit Isaak!
Does this mean that anyone who posts a question on Slashdot is viewed as a moron?
I have many computer related questions because I have just upgraded my PC with "entry level" hardware (new mobo, CPU, vid card, etc..). There are settings in the BIOS and other system specific questions regarding computers that I have.
After reading your post I am a little leary about asking for help.
I read the many posts on here and have many laughs at the comments people make. I also learn a lot, which is something that matters a lot to me.
I am not an IT professional, but I am a technologist (associate engineer) and I am half way through obtaining my Elec Eng degree. So I am not a total moron, but definitely inexperienced with computer systems. The experience I have relates to 386's and Novel Netware 3.12, but this was back in college - 1995 - 1998.
I have found that much that is taught in university is pretty much too theoretical to be applied to most places in the "real" world. Let's be honest, how many times have any of you been asked to derive the minority charge carrier density equations for a p-n junction (diode)? Or explain why the depletion layer of a MOS metal/SiO2/p-type Si junction reaches a maximum value (because the rate at which ionization occurs in p-type region is a root, while electrons are attracted to the interface at an exponential rate - thus when you increase the gate voltage the depletion layer reaches a maximum - as the electrons "neutralize" the positive charges building on the metal plate of the gate - the charges are separated by SiO2 insulation material).
Yeah, my thoughts exactly - who cares! (you would care if you were designing semiconductors though).
So is every question posted as "Ask Slashdot" viewed as something moronic?
Maybe the same reason that the Chinese are hell-bent on pissing the United States off by selling weapons and technology to a rouge state like Pakistan.
Want to compare the two? Taiwan is a market-driven democracy with respect for Human rights. Pakistan is a nuclear-armed military dictatorship that up until 9/11 supported the Taliban. The only reason they stopped is we told them in so many words that if they weren't with us we'd treat them exactly the same as we treated the Taliban.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
the Open Source Active Missile Assault (OSAMA) has already been deployed several places in the world.
You've been out of high school awhile, haven't you?
I mean, who's gonna trust their homemade guided missle to VB code??
Even simpler plans and cutaway drawing here
Thanks, I hate those difficult h-bomb plans...
Depending upon where you live, you may wind up in jail if you did what you propose. For instance, as an example, the U.S. has very tight weapons export control regulations. What you propose would more than likely fall under that. You would have to be registered as an arms dealer, and be able to produce end user certificates for each distributed copy of the system extant. Without those, you would wind up in a federal prison for about 20 years. Most other countries have similar requirements. Hell, the Brits killed John Bull, the inventor of the supergun when he moved to S.A. and started negotiations fwith Iraq for selling them superguns. I would not walk near anything to do with weapons if I were you.
- Category 0 - Nuclear Materials, Facilities and Equipment and Misc
- Category 3 - Electronics
- Category 4 - Computers
- Category 7 - Navigation and Avionics
- Category 9 - Propulsion Systems, Space Vehicles and Related Equipment
Typically, EAR is used for 'dual use' systems, which covers things that have both a military and non-military application, while ITAR is for those things that are considered to not have as a significant non-military application.Those interested should see the following websites:
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
The SCOud missile [pronounced 'scud'] was blatently left off your list. Did you get a payoff?
Shh.... Don't tell anyone. They paid me $699 to leave it off the list.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
Even if you don't click on it, many browsers pre-fetch linked pages to the cache for faster response. Check your settings and be ready when some guys in suits come buy saying something about "Guantanamo".
Why not practice your skills by building an autonomous drone that will zero in on police radar and drop water balloons on them. Blood-sucking parasites!
"Sic Semper Path of Least Resistance"
especially on April Fools Day.
this space intentionally left blank (oops)
VB code?
Eat at Joe's.
Taiwan (Chiang Kai Shek's administration) was the legally elected leadership of China. They fled there after the war with the communists
I will send you all of my top programmers to help you with development work right away. (They are adept at the state-of-the-art Pascal programming language) Expect a large, unmarked wooden crate to arrive at your house tomorrow. You may want to hose off the contents before opening the package.
-Fidel
-Vendal Thornheart
Stick with chemical and biological weapons, and be a part of the growing Open Sores Community...
Any sufficiently advanced man is indistinguishable from God
Instead of wasting your time to develop open source defense (or offense) projects, you and all your liberal friends should lobby the government of your nation to open source all of its software, hardware, mechanical designs, and any other information that is needed to recreate these designs (or to find their weaknesses prior to an attack), and to release all of that information in open-standards file formats on the Internet for anybody to use and enjoy.
Furthermore, the government should be lobbied to tax away all the money of the rich business owners and the rich property owners and give that money to a newly organization called the Warfare Freedom Foundation. The WFF would essentially provide money to hostile states so they could produce weapons of equal or higher capabilities to those of your own country.
Finally, you should lobby your government to shut down all defense projects it has, so that your country will be a sitting duck when the aforementioned hostile nations show up with tanks, missiles, planes, aircraft carriers, and other weapons, to destroy your country for no reason at all, just because they felt like it, because your country was nicer than theirs and therefore they felt oppressed (instead of working to improve their country).
Yes, I think this is a wonderful idea.
And no, I don't think there are any legal issues whatsoever involved in doing this, either.
Oh yeah, and did I mention, you should go directly to the looney bin, if you even think this is a good idea.
Oh yeah, and yes, I knew all along that this was April Fools. SUCKER!!!
1.) Its like hitting a baseball with a needle as its about to go over the fence.
Well!! Better go tell that to the U.S. Army. No sense in them wasting our money on something that won't work!!.
Xenon, where's my money? -Borno
Someone else mentioned the travails of the NZ gent who's been working on a backyard "cruise missile", if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, gov'ments are going to treat it like a duck.
Luke, help me take this mask off
... would be this one.
HydroAcoustic Signal Analysis System
http://hasas.sourceforge.net/
Anti-submarine warfare, anyone?
I am not a lawyer.
I'll glady help out if I get my own test system!
Real SUV's don't have cupholders
It's 5:42 A.M., do you know where your stack pointer is?
Currently there are export restrictions on this kind of thing, if done in USA or European country. I suggest alternative. We have small floating nation/ship with no such restrictions. Only 3/4 done it is under construction in S. Korean ship yard, for launch in 2006 or 2007. We whould have no sush restrictions. In fact, we may be willing to be a beta customer, and even help with the initial product launch.
...to cover all your bases before earnestly starting such a project. The poster doesn't mention who his/her employer is (if any), but the employer company may not want you to do this. Follow me for a second... I work for a defense contractor (think Aukheed-lay Artin-may) and the standard employment contract includes a clause that the company gets first crack at ownership of any patents you develop. What I don't know is this: by extension, if you develop software that relates to your company's line of business, and said software violates US Export laws, could the company be liable? What if the developer in question uses resources or methods gleaned from the workplace? I assume, at the very least, you risk being fired. If the poster doesn't work for such a company, then that isn't much of a threat, but still.
I don't know if the code would be illegal to develop necessarily, but I think it's safe to say it would *definitely* be illegal to export (including allowing access to the code by unfriendly nations via HTTP or FTP). IANAL however.
If you really want to do this, I would suggest two options: (1) Get a job with a defense company and a secret clearance, and get paid to develop the stuff legally. (This option would not allow *you* to give the code to developing nations, the State Dept. would make that decision). Or (2) move to a country with less restrictive export laws. I'm not trying to flame here, just pointing out some of the dangers.
Good luck
Travis
Was anyone else thinking "traitor" as they read that? Just me? Oh well.
I think you would be a Traitor to what ever country you are from.
When a man lies he murders a part of the world.
until i realized it was 1st of April. Good 1st Arpril joke.
This is not a joke.
One time I was on a sales call to a defense contracctor. They were interested in a free software alternative (this is from before the "Open Source" days) to their then current proprietary vendor.
Why? Well, up to when the missile was launched they needed only one license, but when it MIRVed they would need n (I think 6 or 8) more...and they didn't want to have to justify to the government paying for the extra "unnecessary" licenses...
(I suggested they just deal with the contractual issues when they came up, but apparently the kinds of guys who worry about these issues don't find comments like that funny).
There is quite a bit of stuff that could be done in the open source area to promote peace and improve the legitimate needs of nations to defend themselves. My own favorite is development of a network of 802.11b web cams that form a mesh network. The idea is that these could be scattered on a border area so that it would be much more possible to monitor those borders. Theoretically this could be inexpensively enough that even poor countries could afford it.
This might not stop invasions, but do countries really want their agreesions towards their neighbors to be televised live-and unedited?
That said, I'm not terribly sure how a new missile guidance system (open source or not)would be received by the DoD. When I looked at doing something similar to this about two years ago, it seemed that the existing contractors pretty much had a stranglehold on the market. You think the SCO case is contentious? Just wait until you start pitching a low cost missile system to the DoD. You'll have defense contractors putting out hits on you then. LOL But I still do think it's a "possibly" idea. Not sure how you'd break in though.
Another area of defense I think could benefit from open source is biolocation and defense. That's one of my current research projects right now. The idea is that if you can determine a targets unique biological "signature" then you should be able to fairly easily locate the target over a given area. My current interests lie in applying this to satelitte and flyover technology. Imagine being able to put in Osama's unique biological signature and have a satelitte or drone search a given wide area for anything with that signature. I'm seriously thinking about doing this and pitching it to either the DoD or NSA (both could benefit) and it would definately be open source. All I need are a few serious people interested in bioinformatics, biology, and technology who are willing to work for free until we interest the defense community. I'm sure I'll find THAT really quick.
All that to say, I think this is a good idea. Some of the technology has been done already so you wouldn't need to start from scratch. Your main obsticles would be 1)the export restrictions (I'd pitch it to your home country first) and 2) breaking into the industry. Good luck if you're serious!
Anthony Papillion
Advanced Data Concepts, Inc.
"Quality Custom Software and IT Services"
It's funny how "defense" weaponry is usually offensive. To my mind, the ONLY weapons ever designed for defense is the Patriot AMS, the old SDI satellites, and the current ABL/ABM programs. Even these could be easily modified (an airborne laser for shooting down missiles? what if we pretend Kim Jong Il is a missile? Stir fry, that's what).
No shit. Exporting weapons technology. Exporting weapons software. Providing aid to non-State actors (it IS open source - do you honestly thing Al Qaeda, Hamas, or Hezballah won't want to apply this technology - they don't all live in mud huts you know). Selling weapons. Just posting this is probably good for 20 years in the hoosgow with a big black man named rock as your dancing partner.
I admire your goals. But you're dabbling in dangerous territory. I highly suggest you scale this down to a more civil use. You'll never get a federal license to even buy the srb engines to test such a device, and the first time you intercept an airliner by accident (even if you don't break the law by putting a warhead on the device), you're going to jail.
The original post should be modded (-10 TROLL) or perhaps (-5 Flamebait). It is a question designed to provoke a ridiculous response.
No...I don't have a sense of humor.
As all the potentially good ideas it must be done already but you just don't know it yet. The same happened to my idea about a flock of computer-guided mechanical birds that would cause havoc to our enemies or rioters or just help surveil terrain. Guess good ideas happen to many people at same time.
If you think about it, you don't really nead a payload. Just physically screw up the rocket's engine (assuming it isn't gliding), and the thing out to disintigrate.
If it's gliding, then destroying the aerodynamic function out to suffice.
Finally, a "swarm" of smaller devices would probably be more effective than one larger device, and with less invested in a guidance system to boot. You'd have a much better chance of hitting, and your disruptive effect will be spread through all the systems close to the skin of the target.
Of course, a thicker-skinned target would probably be relatively immune...
tasks(723) drafts(105) languages(484) examples(29106)
However - there isn't only the pilot in the aircraft, but the bombs too; usually many more than one. A single bomb can kill many people on the ground. What's less ethical: killing one pilot, or allowing the said pilot to kill significantly more than one person on the ground?
The Department of Defense already developed a study on the application of open source:
_ 01/kenwood_software/index.html
http://www.mitre.org/work/tech_papers/tech_papers
Montreal - Best city to live in!
Well, war is hell. A whole separate set of ethics governs it. Since this is a hypothetical scenario (inspired by an April Fool's joke, I might add...), we can't say which action is more ethical.
;-)
But in general, I would think that aiding countries with a recent track record of agression with their neighbors is not morally justified.
We can't pretend that both participants in every dispute are equally right. In some cases it may be very hard to tell the good guys from the bad guys, but in other cases it may be clear. The point is that if you throw this technology out into the world, the clear bad guys could get hold of it, and I believe that that is an ethical problem.
Keep in mind, too, that people who are true traitors to their own country are universally hated. Even disinterested parties view them with disgust. So if you think giving anti-aircraft technology to countries hostile to your own is a good idea, prepare to be hated.
MM
--
By including this sig, the copyright holders of this work or collection unreservedly place it in the public domain.
Wonder what'd happen if one chose Windows as a deployment OS for missiles. Can they re-use their licenses once older missiles are used? :-)
Textual informations have the highest content/size ratio, are very easy to hide. I can imagine a follow-up to FreeNet, let's call it StegoNet. Another possibility, providing plausible deniability, is to spread the nodes using a worm.