Slashdot Mirror
Few Takers For Microsoft's Settlement Cash
Makarand writes "According to this article on SiliconValley.com very few claims have been received
to claim money from a Microsoft
antitrust settlement in California. Only about
4% of the estimated 14 million eligible California consumers have bothered to file a claim till now.
The deadline for filing claims is officially April 28 but is likely to be pushed back into May or June.
Either, consumers have found the claims process too confusing, time-consuming and discouraging
to keep them from making a claim or they are waiting till the last minute to file(like taxes).
According to the settlement one-third of the unclaimed money will be kept by Microsoft and the rest
will be given to Californian schools."
Weren't these guys going to make it easier?
What's the point of filing a claim when we can't do so easily on the web to receive a free Lindows PC?
Help Brendan pay off his student loans
Or perhaps these folks are refraining because the fine print of the license for XP includes the following:
"User agrees to indemnify Microsoft against any and all abuse of the legal system and will in no case whatsoever assist any governmnent, foreign or domestic, in levying sanctions against Microsoft."
(I don't run it, but it wouldn't surprise me to see this in there.)
Trying to use sarcasm in text-based forums does not work.
... to say that "the rest of the 'money' will go to California schools".
What will go to "California Schools" is 'boxes of Microsoft product', valued at the $-value for the settlement, by a team of accountants, lawyers, and auditors.
This settlement is a sham. It is nothing but an easy seeding program for Microsoft market-share harvests in the 6-month to 1-year time frame, among a vulnerable and naive market (education), and Microsoft know it.
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
Everyone knows that silly Monopoly money isn't real!
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
i think that Bill Gates deserves every penny he's made over the years. but still even if the people don't claim their money 2/3 still go to the school system. better spent there i guess. does anybody happen to know how much money microsoft had donated to various schools over the years? im just curious
Indeed, and a market depends on *choice*. The problem with MS is that they have crush... prevented other companies from getting into the PC market for so long, that the only viable way to create competitor OSes is to either market your own hardware with it (Apple) or make it *free*.
But what is the SIGnificance?
Well I guess the process is too long, to heavy and they have no guarantee to get anything in the end.
I guess that's why those people don't apply security patches either!
--JC
--JC
Sheez - let's see if this gets modded up ...
Note the following things:
1) The post is grammatically and syntactically deranged.
2) The post makes no attempt to justify its assertion.
3) The 'quote' is missing a word, something that's unlikely to happen if it was real, since the poster would have copy-pasted it.
There is another way: make a better OS. That may be the best way since Linux is free and yet only has 5% market share. If you have a choice between $250 and free and you still choose to pay then maybe there's something wrong with the free choice.
First would be ignorance. I would imagine that a majority of the people who qualify for this settlement do not know about it and it's not as if Microsoft is going to go out of its way to inform them.
Second would be reality. To claim your settlement money you must produce your "Product Key number or Product ID number". Mind you these are your keys/ids from February 18, 1995 thru December 15, 2001. I don't know about you but those keys are long gone for me.
Third is human behavior. Corporations have known for a very long time that rebates are a fantastic sales tool precisely because many people do not follow through and claim them. I have a strong suspicion that the same principal is at work here - be it laziness or something else.
"If you're flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a fire exit." - Mitch Hedberg
sorry about that, broken link in post, link in sig is ok...
MP3 Search Engine
Ahem. Say what you want, Bill gates does, has, and will continue to, give vast quantites of money to charities and schools. Try reading his will sometime.
I am one of many. My idea is not unique, nor do I expect my voice alone to sway you. I speak in a chorus of opinion.
consumers have found the claims process too confusing, time-consuming and discouraging to keep them from making a claim
Well, DUH!
Does anyone really think Redmond is just going to happily dispose of their $$$ and make it easy to do so at the same time?
They didn't get to where they are now through stupidity.
The problem with socialism is that they always run out of other people's money. - Margaret Thatcher
Microsoft is a public company. With millions of shareholders. That is, millions of owners. You want to own a piece of it yourself, and have voting rights regarding the company's future? Go buy a block of stock.
/. dominated by so much misplaced anger.
I know I'll probably get modded down and get all kinds of bad karma for this, but I hate to see
Microsoft is not just Gates and Balmer. It is a voice for a large number of people. It's this voice that gives Microsoft the power it has.
Just like Gates' "donations" to libraries of PC's running Windows. I wonder if he/M$ write off the retail value of these donations that cost them FAR less to make (wouldn't this be tax fraud?) What a philanthropist, this type of donation is totally self-serving.
Yeah... sssuuuuure.... I'm gonna do that right now!
M$ Makes every one who buys their software register it which means they have a record of who purchased it. Therefore M$ should have to contact everyone with a claim form that merely requires you to properly identify yourself. I work in medical electronics and if we did things the way M$ does we'd be shut down in a heartbeat.
You can legislate morally you can't legislate morality
Or maybe you don't realised that you've got a choice?
A lot of people who buy computers just go to PC World (or wherever) who only supply machines preinstalled with Windows, and they don't know that other OSes exist.
And most people who do own PCs don't know you can get a refund on your pre-installed copy of Windows if you don't use it, either.
Maybe people value their time more than vouchers? Seriously, how many mothers and fathers are going to take an hour out of a busy day (that they could be spending with their kids) to fill in paperwork to get some rebate on software if they decide to upgrade their system in the future?
Fact is most families don't care if their box isn't secure, patched or running the latest media player 9.03848.8464a - They'll use it once or twice a week to mail grandma.
Sorry Slashdotters, but people who upgrade enough to care about some freebie settlement vouchers ARE that current 14% of settlement takers.
Confusing? discouraging? time-consuming? Oh, this refers to the claims process. I thought they were talking about Windows OS's. Silly me!
Harpo Tunnel Syndrome--my wrist feels funny.
"Judge Alvarado is also considering a request for attorney's fees from the plaintiffs of about $270 million, including about $50 million in billable hours plus more than $200 million in additional payments because of the risk associated with fighting Microsoft.
What risk? MSFT is cash-rich. They are flinging out money to all watchers like moon pies at the Mardi Gras parade.
IANAL but, I see that it pays more than coding...
Maybe the lawyers could be paid in vouchers. They could then upgrade from the law firm staple: MS-DOS 5.0 + Wordperfect 5.1 on Compaq 386/33 machines.
Have you Meta Moderated t
The altruism of the wealthy is rarely more than a tax deduction.
If something could actually match Windows in terms of usability, it would create big waves.
OS X, Microsoft does work to force people to buy MS products, or do you think that keeping the Office formats a moving target since 95 was just a game the dev team played 'cause they were bored, or binding IE so tight to the OS that it cannot be removed without killing critical parts like windows update.
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
Don't you recognize Microsoft exerts some kind of monopoly in many software markets ( OS, office suite, media player, browser, etc. ) right now ? Of course people can write better software - hell, many do :) - but having a better product doesn't mean the top rank in market share because many other variables have to be taken into account, one of the most important being the monetary assets of the companies involved, another being the political power corporations can gain to twist societal tendancies into their favor. Microsoft have massive monetary and political power to help them stay on top, which isn't fair for any startup company. I'm not saying it's impossible to topple Microsoft as a monopoly by having better products alone, but the defacto-monopoly right now is definitely not a good thing for competition, and hence for consumers.
<rant>
We do not live in a classic-capitalism utopia where companies are ethical and let competition strive ; we live in a world where giant corporations enjoy being on top to gain huge piles of money, namely because of the underlying "greed" capitalism is based on. I've always found strange that on one hand, capitalists explain their position with a greed-as-human-nature argument while on the other hand assuming that this greed will be refrained for some Common Good. Greed has never been a matter of common good, it's about gaining and preserving power. Capitalism is not concerned with morals and ethics, and that's why it cannot stand alone as a worldview. So defending Microsoft on a strictly economical dimension isn't very much relevant at all.
</rant>
And actually I think MacOS X surpasses WinXP hands down on usability, as long as you're not glued up in WinLogics as a user.
United States of America, good ol' backers of world peace.
Well, if they'd open it up to other states (ahem, PA), I'd be happy to claim some money. :)
California sues "for the people," but then the people don't file for the money. Perhaps that means that the people didn't care/don't care or didn't/don't feel like they were ripped off and thus don't see a need to file. Either way, it's kind of odd, since money is money....I'd want mine.
I've said it before: if I rob a bank, and get away with the largest haul of any bank robbery in history, and rather than keeping all of my ill-gotten gains, I give away some small but meaningful portion of it to charity, and the recipients of my generosity are profoundly grateful for my gift ...
... I'm still a bank robber.
The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
most people have never heard of Linux, and most those that have think that it is a software package that you load on a Windows server. The reason people will pay $300 for Windows is because that's all they know. Samething when it comes to CPUs, I hear way too often that all someone wants when getting a new computer is a 'Pentium'. You mention AMD and they look all puzzled and say 'is that a Pentium?'
It's all about advertising, which Linux get's very little of. And the advertising it does get is very generic and not very specific. Those that know Linux think it's a product of IBM or a new way of running servers. If Red Hat or SUSE or Mandrake ran ads every 5 minutes on 'Must See TV' people would notice, but this isn't going to happen soon because that costs A LOT of money...money which none of these companies have.
That and they need a jingle that will stick in peoples heads for years and/or a silly mascot that people will remember.
"Some things have to be believed to be seen." - Ralph Hodgson
Where is the data to back this up?
If I remember right, before the formation of the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation he really gave very little when compared with other filthy rich guys.
When you can show me he gives an equal or greater percentage of his wealth as the next 10 richest guys, I'll be impressed.
"The last thing I want to do is deal with a bunch of people who want something."
Major Major
Dude. You got too much time on your hands.
Maybe so few people have bothered fooling with this because they genuinely do not care.
While most everyone desires free money (in this case free goods via vouchers), its not like this is going to buy them all that much.
The other reason to file - i.e. an intolerable hatred of all things MS, and the desire to stick it to them - just isn't a big factor in most normal, well-adjusted people's lives.
Only in yours.
I don't believe class-action lawsuits truly benefit anyone except the lawyers, who are the only ones that will receive any useful prize from the settlement. So let them get their money from Microsoft without my help, and if California schools get my $3.77, or whatever paltry fractional amount would have been sent, great, at least the money is being re-pooled into a useful amount again.
i'm in line for a refund on the MS products i purchased between the dates specified, but i can't seem to find UPCs from 1995(!)
give me a break. this settlement isn't getting responses, because people don't keep receipts for software for 10 bloody years.
MS gets away with it, again.
Not helpful for people who have disabled .sig display.
> ... I'm still a bank robber.
And Bill Gates has built the richest company in the world through hard work. Or are you suggesting that other people have/had the opportunity to become as rich and successful as Gates but decided against following it out of purely altruistic principles?
Microsoft does NOT force anyone's hand to use their software. Even on PCs that come with it, you can get a refund
You ever tried to do that?
It's almost like those rebate programs:
1) Overprice your product and offer a rebate
2) Bank on the fact that only a small percentage of customers actually mail in for the rebate, and do so correctly.
3) Profit
So MS's business model is looking more and more like:
1) Do whatever you want and let others/the government file antitrust suits.
2) Settle suits knowing almost nothing will be done to enforce/cash in on them
3) Profit
If Dubya wants to convince the public that the US economy is getting better, he should just designate litigation settlement income as a business sector instead of trying to classify burger flippers as "manufacturing jobs".
=Smidge=
Even though I would like to see M$ft hurt in the purse, I am one of those who has NOT yet filed. I made 3 or 4 attempts to consolodate my 'evidence' of purchases, but at the expected payout rate, I realized long ago it was going to be way more cost effective (for me) to just return the pre-filled certificates. I know they do not reflect my actual purchases, and I am SURE I have more of the little holograms about than M$ft would EVER know about. It is simply a case where the Lawyers have made the hoops too difficult to jump through.
In my defense. IANAL. I do NOT play one in the computer store. I used to assemble all my machines from parts. When I had a friend who needed an OS from M$ft, I would direct them to the university bookstore where software could be gotten at 'rational' prices. These are folks who just need a box to get by. They are WAY less interested in the politics behind a purchase they made years ago than I. I take my consolation in the fact that I have done my best to minimize the up-front money M$ft got from us in the first place.
Bottom Line. Apologies to all those who deserve to have M$ft paying through the nose, but I'm not the one who can spend the time to figure out how to make it happen.
Companies bet on very few, if any, people actually getting money out of these things. I wouldn't be surprised if the beancounters calculated it out in advance to be 5% or so. There are so many hoops to jump through, and they are so high, that few people get through the maze of red tape. Why would any company make it easy for someone to suck "free money" in the form of a rebate or voucher away from them? Best to make it as complex and as hopelessly complex as possible.
Normally I shun litigation as a solution to problems, but I think this area is a place where we could use some regulation. Things are so bad with rebates now that I wouldn't be surprised if cans of Tuna had rebates on them in the future, but cost $5 with $4 rebate. I know this is a little offtopic and Microsoft's situation is a little different, but their method of doling out their required settlement should be decided by someone with more common sense, not someone who wants to save the company the most money. I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft actually pays out less than 5% of what they actually owe the people.
Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
they don't know that other OSes exist.
Actually, I'm thinking that they just don't give a rat's ass. Non-geeks that I know couldn't care less about the OS they're running. It just doesn't matter.
If it's in his will, I don't think he'll get much of a tax benefit from it ;-)
There are four boxes used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order.
Because it's a measely $26 for a copy of Office and $16 for a copy of Windows.... the time it would take to track this down, find the receipts, fill it out, and send all that crap in, ain't worth it. Particularly when I'm not sure I'd be able to find those receipts anyway.
Sure, money is money, but this isn't enough to spend a couple hours on.
Bleah. What was the point of being required to respend that money on something else? It should have been a straight rebate, sent by MS.
and/or a silly mascot that people will remember.
Good idea! Hmm, let me think... maybe an animal of some sort. A tiger? A sealion?
GOT IT. A penguin.
"Either, consumers have found the claims process too confusing, time-consuming and discouraging to keep them from making a claim or they are waiting till the last minute to file(like taxes)"
Or maybe they just want the license as it is.
If only a 4% made the claim perhaps thats the whole linux community, which Im part of.
I didn't bother to fill out the form they sent me because I don't agree with the settlement and in fact think that it sets a very bad precedence. I purchased Microsoft software because it performed a task or service that I was willing to pay for. At no point was I tricked or forced to buy the stuff. I agreed to the price when I paid for it, so I think it would be wrong for me to change my mind years after the fact. I paid more for Autodesk, Novell and Sun software but you don't see anyone demanding rebates from them. This whole thing just struck me as a bunch of greedy layers and consumers who saw an opportunity to get something for nothing.
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
It's possible that people feel that if they're lazy, the money will just go to the schools anyway, so why bother?
Personally, I work for a California school system, and I figure if I don't claim it, I'll end up seeing (most of) it when it comes back to us and I can purchase needed supplies (and yes, you'll just have to deal with the fact that in general, schools are now primarily Windows-based, and more likely than not, we're going to pick up a few Windows licenses with that money).
Sig!
Seems everyone is saying that it's too time consuming or confusing - but maybe, just maybe, no one really cares.
Bah, you only get out of paying tax on the amount you donated. So if you donate $1 million, you'll only save $3-500,000 on your taxes. It's still a net donation of $5-700,000.
The meek shall inherit the earth, in 3 by 6 plots. - Lazerus Long
Ahem... RedHat has a good bit of money, enough for maybe one big ad campaign, and SUSE is owned by Novell, who has some serious change, and has IBM support. IBM can pull off huge campaigns like this financially, they just need to make it better for the Average Joe (which IBM's not willing to do - they've said many times that Linux isn't ready for the desktop).
Basically more than half of his current net worth. I know the guys an evil nut.
<conspiracy>They can print software and donate it. I don't know how the accountants sort out the value of the donation though. If it is anything other than cost of production (not estimated costs based on R&D, or wholesale/retail prices etc), then MS has a license to print money and expand their market through tax writeoffs.</conspiracy>
A lot of you have a highly developed skill of talking out your ass. Too difficult to apply? Hardly. Microsoft is keeping a 'big-brother' database. I had registered software while living in California. When I moved to another state, I did not notify Microsoft, but they found me anyway. I was sent (without asking them) a pre-printed form of all of the software I had registered while in California. All I had to do was sign it and return it to them. If people are not receiving notification, it may be because they never registered their software in the first place, or because they registered pirated copies.
So what you're saying is, Gates is still a damn good businessman? Or is this less of a fact-based argument, based on hatred of his products? I know which I see...
...it's people who realize that the rampant abuse of class action lawsuits by greedy lawyers is a far bigger problem than what MS does to its competition. Think big picture, not "OMG WINBLOW$ iS TEH SUXORS!"
1) buy M$ stock /. comment suggesting others do the same
2) post a
3) profit
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html
Last I checked, VA-Linux no longer existed. There's this company called VA Software that owns the OSDN, which in turns runs /.
Now, if you think this is some kind of conspiracy against the small and vulnerable Microsoft corporation by they all-encompassing OSDN, I've got a nice tinfoil hat for you. And you might think of living in a Faraday cage. Never know when those "Linux" folk will catch up with you and start reading your thoughts...
You're reading Slashdot. Of course you like Linux and pc hardware
Furthermore, these ambulance chasers are claiming to represent *me*, because I'm supposedly part of a class of people hurt by MS's greedy business products. WRONG - while I've been hurt by MS's software being unstable and unreliable and unfriendly, I knew enough about it before I bought it to know what quality to expect (well, except for 98SE, which I bought specifically for one feature that didn't work - but I've reinstalled my copy of 98SE on a variety of machines over the years, so we're mostly even.) The assertion that the PCs I've bought for Linux have been more expensive because I've been forced to get Windows with them isn't correct - I've bought them barebones and assembled them, and if I wanted Windows that was an extra-price option. The assertion that Microsoft was ripping me off by including Internet Explorer for free was bogus from the start, and the main people who were ranting about this in court were Netscape, who made their money by giving away their browser for free, so it's really hypocritical for them to complain when MS did the same in self-defense.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
microsoft isnt very small anymore.. and we don't call pc's microcomputers anymore either... maybe they should change the name to macrosoft?
Wow, It's not that hard to file. I got maybe 4 forms sent to me already in the mail. I thought the deadline was long ago (mid-March), but it seems to have been extended to April 28.
As long as you are filing for less than $100 reimbursement, you do not need to provide any product keys or proof. You just have to provide a list of what you bought, and most consumers will easily fall within the $100 limit and qualify for the standard (easy) form.
In other words, fill out a form saying "I bought Windows 98 on or about this date" and you get a voucher.
That's it. No proof necessary if your filing is under $100 and fewer than 5 products purchased. So get your forms, because time is running out! Go to the web site and request a standard claim form now.
California Schools all ready get free copies of Windows 2000 for donated computer equipemnt. As long as the equipment is less than a Pentium III and better than a Pentium 1. (Which is a fine computer for learning how to type on.)
They also get deep discounts for Microsoft products. That's why none of the schools were elegible for this refund. They pay (approx) $45 for a full version of Microsoft Office 2003 Pro. And $52 for a full copy of Windows XP...
What more can Microsoft do for the schools, that isn't all ready amazing?!
How could you? They don't give you Windows refunds anymore. You have to send back the entire system.
Keep your eyes to the sky.
We got it here in Florida too, and I did not accept the money as I don't want to agree not to sue MS.
One of the stipulations accepting the money is not to sue MS.
Besides the pultry few dollars are not worth the hassle. The latter no doubt lies behind what is going on in California. The state settled, not it's constituants.
But the profit Microsoft makes on Windows is something like 80%. So, they donate $1 million, the real cost to them $200,000 but they save at least $300,000 on their tax bill. Net gain of at least $100,000!
It's because to get the claim, you must have your windows 95 or 98 sales receipt, and cd key. It doesn't apply to windows XP. Who in the heck still has a sales receipt for windows 95?
Scott
Why is this AC giving torpor a hard time for being sarcastic when he's absolutely right? Defending yourself from being called a "tinfoil" and citing proof to back it up is absolutely proper.
/. needs is to do away with Anonymous Cowards all together.
Maybe what
Why should I argue rationally with someone being irrational? I'll just mock them instead.
Anybody here actually read the form? IIRC, if you claim fewer than 5 products, you don't have to prove anything.
Companies can use invoices to document their purchases. I sent in a 1.5 inch stack of invoice copies. The cool bit is that Dell was able to send me duplicate invoices for many purchases because we had a little records retention problem.
I would guess that many individuals have not filed a claim because they simply didn't know about it.
-waiting for my vouchers.
Microsoft's school marketing program is about as altruistic as Phillip Morris putting low cost cigarette vending machines in high schools.
It's demoralizing to see Microsoft drag out every anti-trust case, and when they're finally found guilty, and all appeals are eventually exhausted, weasel and squirm their way into a "settlement" that amounts to little more than marketing.
>> My ultraviolent Linux switch video.
If you look at Microsoft's market strategy over the last couple of decades, you really have to admire the genius that they have for forward thinking.
By giving free software to school districts, they're just bringing up the next generation of MS junkies. Brilliant. They do similar things all the time.
Why should I argue rationally with someone being irrational? I'll just mock them instead.
Buy them Macs.
That's the problem. Spam filters. They get all these e-mails from the courts claiming easy money for free, and it's all filtered out.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
No, you're Robin Hood.
Ironically, the word ironically is often used incorrectly.
They're on my shelf right next to my 10Mbps ethernet card, my NES, and my 2400 baud modem.
...No, wait! Don't leave baby...but...but I...okay, you're right, I have plenty of software...yes ma'am, I'll throw it all away....
And my gf said I should throw that stuff out! HAHAHAHA I'm getting free software now, wench! HAHAHAHAHAHA
Why should I argue rationally with someone being irrational? I'll just mock them instead.
almost as good as free(*) money.
(*) If you feel an urge to point out that it isn't really free, please don't. We already know.
HAND.
Which doesn't run on linux. Which means I'll have to go out, buy Windows and download Adobe Acrobat 6.0.
Bastards! They got me everwhere I turn!
Actually, I don't see a hatred of product (which is probably present, for different reasons).
I see another voice crying out MONOPOLY ABUSE IS ILLEGAL and that without his cornering the market (through illegal strongarm deals with OEMs) he wouldn't have all that he has now.
In effect, I find the Bank Robber analogy to be totally fair.
Like The debacle of Dieppe?
I filed my claim in December and have yet to receive anything.
in bed.
Yeah, that and a fat guy in a butterf^H^H^H^H^Hpenguin suit to follow people around and interfere in people's lives. Hm, maybe I could patent...oh, wrong article.
We may experience some slight turbulence and then...explode. -Capt. Mal Reynolds
do you think that keeping the Office formats a moving target since 95 was just a game the dev team played 'cause they were bored
If this were really intentional, each version would have an entirely different file structure. I'm willing to wager that it was just bad planning - they failed to produce a file format that could expand to support new features when they were developed, so had to make substantial changes to it.
The Mac is a good option too. I pointed my brother in that direction several years ago and he hasn't needed any support from me since then.
For anyone willing to change, and it's not that hard, they get the free hardware and software support they are accustomed to getting from me. But I'm not wasting any more time removing worms, reinstalling Windows every year when registry rot requires it, or cleaning up spyware. After a short period, I'm saving time, and so is the user.
For now, I'm not trying to convert people who still need a lot of Windows-specific apps. They're phase II. But for most people, I'm now happy recommending Linux, and it's sufficiently mature that most people are happy using it. We've reached that important knee of the curve.
Most naive users are surprised that they no longer have daily crashes, Outlook worms, etc. And they like the price, too. I think most non-geeks would be demanding a nice GUI Linux, but they simply didn't know that option existed.
Microsoft is huge, mostly because in the DOS days PHBs made the purchasing decisions, and we know how technically astute they can be. The Microsoft monopoly is a market based problem, and there is a market based solution. If you don't like it, don't support it. Change the PC marketplace, one PC at a time.
>> My ultraviolent Linux switch video.
Jesse James, Is that you??
Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
Just give it to the schools, thats what they should of done in the first place! Just look at how many people actually bother with mail in rebates, and thats nowhere near the hassle of getting settlement money. I don't bother with a mail in rebate unless its worth $20 or more. Most of these settlements only count for a few dollars, like someone else posted they only got $10. I did look into the settlement a while back, although I don't remember how much it was I know it was under $30. So why bother? As for the Anti-trust case I have to ask who the hell gives a shit? Now if someone files an Anti-trust suit against Real then hell yeah im hopping on the bandwagon. I'll fill out every form I have to to get money from that BS company. Who's with me?
I don't know anyone who has ever paid US retail list for a legit copy of Windows, either they buy an OEM install with their new PC or they qualify for upgrade pricing, academic discounts, etc.
An OEM Dell install of XP Home costs under $50, less than the replacement price of a single pair of ink jet cartridges, and probably the reason why no one gives a damn about the "Microsoft Tax."
Corporate taxes are nowhere near that high. If they were, we wouldn't have jobs.
Life in Orange County
is fair market value, used or new. That leaves it pretty open there, and you take your chances on claiming a deduction-of course I am referring to personal filing not as a corporation. What it is there I have no idea. I do know the tax extortionists don't take kindly to abusing it, like claiming your old 286 box is worth 500$ or anything like that. It would seem to me if the distro is on official CD, it would be worth what the distro makers ask for it, if it's a clone copy what they would charge, and etc. No more, no less. If it's downloaded, not much. MS is just using the system's rules when they can do it "legally", and dodging them when they can get away with it. Nothing new there with either individuals or corporations. It is more common than uncommon I think.
Long-EZ : "But for most people, I'm now happy recommending Linux, and it's sufficiently mature that most people are happy using it. We've reached that important knee of the curve.
l e.jhtml?articleID=18901660&pgno=3at
:" But remember, even Windows 95--nine-year old software, reviled in the Linux community as junk code--handled the exact same sound system perfectly. So did Win98, WinMe, Win2000, Win XP Home and Win XP Pro. In this case, reflexively blaming the hardware is simply a dodge. If Linux is a truly superior operating system, shouldn't it be able to do what a nine-year-old copy of Windows can do? Why is it still struggling with a problem that Microsoft solved roughly a decade ago?
Most naive users are surprised that they no longer have daily crashes, Outlook worms, etc."
Another Linux ostrich continues to live in dreamland and refuses to face reality.
1. For the first three conths of this year, Linux had up to THREE TIMES any security holes as Windows, and that is despite the fact that there are at least 100 times as many Windows computers out there as Linux computers. Just imagining how much chaos there will be if Linux had even 10% of the market.Welcome to Nightmare on Linux Street.
2. Just let an ordinary consumer try and configure Linux on a normal white box PC and see what hell really is like. Go read this terryfing experince with Linux installation at Information Week at:http://www.informationweek.com/story/showArtic
Extracts
All this is amplified now that some companies in the Linux community are charging Microsoft-level prices. When a free or low-cost distribution falls short in some area, one might shrug it off. But when a full-price Linux distribution fails to provide even Win95's levels of compatibility, and then offers poor tech support as well, Linux is hardly a bargain.
And the costs are actually worse than that: I've invested more than two full working days on just the sound problem, which has raised the real cost of Linux on this PC, so far, from its retail $90 to $90 PLUS two day's pay. That makes this install of Linux the most expensive operating system I've ever tried. (And after all that, and after trying everything that the XYZ paid tech support suggested, it's still not working right.)
I also see I'm not the only one starting to do the math, as this survey of 1,000 IT managers shows. According to that survey, it can cost three to four times as much as moving from one version of Windows to another"
Linux can't even compete withthe 9 year old Windows 95 on ease of installation and configuration.
So much for your scream about Linux being "sufficiently mature that most people are happy using it. We've reached that important knee of the curve."
In your dreams perhaps. This happens to be real life, boy!
OK, after a quick google, I found a mention, The basic federal tax rate for large corporations in the US is 35%. So, I think you are wrong, but anyway it doesn't change the main equation, which is that it only costs Microsoft $200,000 to donate $1 million 'worth' of software.
KDE bound Konquerer pretty tight into its desktop environment.
Oh, I forgot, we're pointlessly bashing "M$" for putting features into their product, like web browsing. Silly me.
It's unrealistic because the vast majority of MS stockholders ARE MS stockholders because it's a money machine. They don't really care what MS does as long as the machine keeps printing money. It's also unrealistic because the amount of stock necessary to actually change anything amounts to tens of billions of dollars, and "we" will never accumulate that kind of capital.
It's also been demonstrated to be ineffective, even if you hold millions of shares -- many major institutional shareholders (CALPERS, to name just one) have tried to use the proxy process to make *minor* changes in company behavior and have been rejected time and again; when the board and senior management don't want to do something, there's little you can do unless you own a majority of the stock, and even then it needs to be a mission of religious faith to get changes.
Let's face it, major businesses are like mini nation-states -- barring the application of lethal force, they'll do whatever they want -- they own the civil government.
Why wait? If I owe money, I will wait until April 13th or 14th before I file. If money is owed me, as soon as I have everything together, I file. In this case, Microsoft would owe you, so why wait?
I specifically did not apply for this money, or take Lindows/Linspire up on getting my money for me.
1) I do not wish to support Lindows in anyway, Linux or not.
2) What isn't claimed goes to the kids (or 2/3 of it). If I took the 100 bucks I'd just buy more stuff. I think the schools could do a lot more with that portion.
Post: Sigged, for your pleasure.
ALLIED FORCES, asshat.
Many brave canadians, brits and americans gave their lives. And hundreds of thousands of aussies, new zealanders... Russians, etc etc
The french reistance existed too. French national pride has built up the idea of a huge resistance, when in fact it was relatively small, but it did exist.
RTFA, n00b ..
How about all of the IBM commercials? Including the Super Bowl? Or The commercial with the Basketball players playing as Linux and Unix. Linux is known. Heck, even Apple's servers products are known, yet not used..
Even me missus knows about Linux.. And she's a librarian!
Pick a different, more correct answer, please..
We do not live in a classic-capitalism utopia where companies are ethical and let competition strive ; we live in a world where giant corporations enjoy being on top to gain huge piles of money, namely because of the underlying "greed" capitalism is based on. I've always found strange that on one hand, capitalists explain their position with a greed-as-human-nature argument while on the other hand assuming that this greed will be refrained for some Common Good. Greed has never been a matter of common good, it's about gaining and preserving power. Capitalism is not concerned with morals and ethics, and that's why it cannot stand alone as a worldview.
Wow. You really could stand to take a basic economics course. Seriously.
I'm glad that you used the word "utopia" in your post since it seems that that is what you are after. The last time I checked, the world is filled with people who claw to get ahead, screw over their neighbors and bend the rules as far as they can to do whatever it is that they want to do. The magic of capitalism is that, rather than prescribing some set of ethical behaviors and assuming that everyone else will get on board, it is able to INCORPORATE this very greed that you talk about and Common Good comes out of it.
The fact of the matter is that every time Communism has been tried, it has led to rather rampant cronyism and disincentives for people to produce anything more than the exact amount demanded of them.
I don't believe that an economic system can be concerned with morals and ethics -- that is for an ethical system, a moral system -- that is for the people to step up and do. We certainly aren't there yet. It makes me sad to see this. The world could be a much better place if we were. But capitalism as a system is able to refine this greed and transform it into the Common Good. Check out the living standards of people living in countries with capitalism versus those with communism sometime. Witness South Korea before and after getting with the program. Witness Japan, with almost NO natural resources versus China. (And speaking of China, have you seen what has happened to the standard of living there in the last 20 years since moving to a market economy? I'm not talking about a few wealthy people in the cities... I'm talking about people in rural areas getting electricity. I'm talking about things like regular people getting air conditioners and dishwashers and being able to afford computers...
There are excesses with our system. There are problems that we can spot and things tweak. No system is a pure system and no one claims that it should be. (As just one small example, nobody claims that Canada is anything but capitalistic and yet they somehow manage to provide health care to everyone living there.) But if you are going to attack capitalism itself without proposing some alternative -- and one which will work IN SPITE of the fact that PEOPLE (not just "the system" are the ones who are greedy and will presumably remain that way) then you will get responses like these reminding you that we live in the real world.
I would have to say that explosives are the most abused technology in all of history.
Here's a look at MSFT's tax statement. You can see they paid $2.8 billion last year in taxes on $14.7 in income. Not too shabby if you ask me.
The meek shall inherit the earth, in 3 by 6 plots. - Lazerus Long
well anyone who wants to can go recompile KDE with their own program in place of windows, if MS catches you "recompiling" they would sue/prosecute you
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
Your reasoning assumes that none of that donated software would have been purchased anyways. For every million dollars of software they give away they are potentially losing hundreds of thousands in sales. Also the taxes would be based on the overall profit shown by the company not the per item profit.
I just tried to download the form from http://www.microsoftcalsettlement.com/ClaimPage.ht m with Mozilla 1.7b. When I push the butten "Create Printable Claim Form" it just reloads the page, whereas with IE it loads a PDF of the claim form with URL "https://webform.microsoftcalsettlement.com/PDF/St andardClaimForm.pdf".
Test 1 2 3 4
that may be true but they sure as hell didn't release info to make interoperability easier
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
If your browser doesn't, or is set not to, cache documents retrieved over an encrypted (i.e. SSL) connection, then you'll likely get an error message that appears to indicate that the form is not available on the server. In reality, the problem is that a copy of the generated claim form isn't in the cache and thus can't be opened.
Turning on caching of encrypted pages (a security issue) solves the problem (how Microsoft!) but what percentage of web surfers would know this? They would more likely say to themselves, "Bah! Microsoft probably has something to do with the form being missing."
Unfortunately, neither the FAQ nor any other page at the settlement web site address this issue. I only found out after taking the time to call the toll-free number. Incidentally, I asked the guy who answered why the info wasn't online and he said he'd make a note or something about it.
Take a look at your calendar. It is 2004 not 1994.
I haven't seen XP blue screen in over a year and nothing that would justify a reinstall. I haven't needed a Geek to help keep me going, which a damn good thing because they are mighty thin on the ground here.
Before I could get my settlement money (about $40) I apparently had to pay a processing fee to some unknown entity. They wanted my credit card info, or a check.
That is a bunch of bullshit. I would have though MS would have to pay the damn fee. I thought it may have been a scam.
If this was legit, the Judge who approved this should have done better.
"OS X, Microsoft does work to force people to buy MS products, or do you think that keeping the Office formats a moving target since 95 was just a game the dev team played 'cause they were bored, or binding IE so tight to the OS that it cannot be removed without killing critical parts like windows update."
A) OSX only runs on Apple hardware
B) MS Office is not the only office suite available
C) IE is not the only web browser available
Companies are using the courts because they lost in the marketplace. You can mod commnets like this down all you want, but it doesn't change the history.
but not as memorable as a quick flash of Janet Jackson's tits
Too many Gates bashing posts here, on the basis of software for schools (as opposed to cash). To that end... I'm sure most of you have heard of this foundation, but perhaps your OS choice colours your view of the man. The fact is that these two have donated hundreds of millions of dollars to very worthy causes. A very important point was made by another poster in this thread who noted that MS is not just Bill Gates, but rather the thousands of shareholders that own the company.
So this "money" going to California schools may not make you feel warm and fuzzy, but follow the following...
Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation
And learn that Bill != Evil (at least, not always)
Fair enough. I bailed on Windows just before XP. My criticism was based on Win95 and Win98. I've heard from several people I trust that XP is much more stable than all the previous versions I've used.
Still no explanation why it took Microsoft a decade to produce a reasonably stable version of Windows. Hopefully they won't need another decade to eliminate all those Outlook worms.
Geez, I try to write a conciliatory response, and still can't help making snide Windows remarks. I need to lighten up a bit.
>> My ultraviolent Linux switch video.
I sent in my request six months ago and I have never received a response.
i got the letter in the mail about the settlement. problem is that i don't think i have the boxes and serials for those programs kicking around anymore to prove i purchased those products. so i'm screwed...
Large print giveth, and the small print taketh away
well, I only mentioned OS X bcause you im[plied that Windows is the most usable OS, it is not. Do you know what CLSID is, 'cause MS uses 'em in the registry, seemingly to ensure that nobody can manually clean up an older system "hmm, is it safe to remove {479AF32D7-35CDE4} or do i need it?"
The problem isn't that you can't get another browser, the problem is that you can't safely remove IE from windows. The problem i have with office is the way they have used it to choke out competition and even went as far as spreading anti OO.o FUD
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
Does it strike anyone else as funny that, when I tried to claim my settlement money for all the MS OSes and such that I had been forced to buy for testing purposes even though my platform of choice has always been the Mac OS... ...the settlement web site doesn't work with any Mac browsers?
Laugh, cry, or throw up. And throwing up is bad for your electrolyte balance, I hear.
-fred
Sign #11 of Slashdot overdose: You see the phrase 'moderate Republican' and you wonder if that would be a +1 or a -1.
This is becoming increasingly true but certainly was not always so. The robber barons, people who treated the country just as badly as Bill Gates ever did, set up enormous charitable foundations and helped an enormous number of people, long before there was any such thing as a tax writeoff for charitable donations.
There are decent people out there. Some people can be complete dickweeds when it comes to destroying every business that might in some way oppose them, putting thousands of people out of work, abusing their workers, and so forth, and still, in the end, give enormous amounts of money to charitable foundations because they want to help people and for no other reason.
People are complex. Get used to it.
-fred
Sign #11 of Slashdot overdose: You see the phrase 'moderate Republican' and you wonder if that would be a +1 or a -1.
i made a claim last year, but have yet to receive any response about how much i'll be creditted or receive back. i'd like to know if anyone has actually seen money from this.
"...twice it's cost basis..."
It sounds good, but this is an area where exactly how you split the hairs makes all the difference in the world.
What if Microsoft sends out a license for 1000 machines with a single master install CD? Would Microsoft consider that a $10 donation? If not, how would the tax refund not be contributing to the shared costs of Microsoft's products?
The Apple market share in schools is still quite high, especially in California. However, it's pretty clear to me that after this settlement, it's going to go down. Schools can't afford to turn down free things.
Your school may be primarily Windows-based, but the two that my friend has worked in in the past two years were between 75% and 100% Mac-based, and the one I volunteered my services for last year was 100% Mac. They don't have a full-time IT guy, just me and one other occasional volunteer, but given that they'll probably soon have a few Windows machines, I expect them to be getting one shortly.
-fred
Sign #11 of Slashdot overdose: You see the phrase 'moderate Republican' and you wonder if that would be a +1 or a -1.
The altruism of the wealthy is rarely more than a tax deduction.
Let me help you out. What you really mean to say is "Rich people are all fucking bastards. They should all die slow painful deaths. Even the ones that donate HUGE sums of money to charities."
Be happy. Nothing else matters.
You want to own a piece of it yourself, and have voting rights regarding the company's future? Go buy a block of stock.
Shareholder "democracy" is about as unfair, undemocratic, and delusionally unresponsive as you can get. Even when and if shareholders succeed in pushing through motions at general meetings with which the Board of Directors disagree, they can still ignore them. Withness the latest round of motions in favour of options expensing that are being soundly ignored by their Boards.
Da Blog
Personally, I'm waiting for the day M$ decides to pay anyone who works with Open Source Software a large cash subsidy to NOT develop Open Source Software.......
Much like Government Farm subsidies. It seems like a natural progression from these tax writeoffs/marketing schemes disguised as court settlements.....
M$ is like US Auto Industry in the 70s - a "huge arrogant corporate cancer" passing high priced shoddy products designed/engineered for obsolescence... I believe M$, like the USAI, is about to get it's butt kicked by the Asian and European OSS developers - not because OSS is cheaper, but because it is better engineered...... Once this happens, M$, just like the USAI, will simply buy out their competition...... The ultimate fix to these pesky settlements. The consumer gets the "green weeny" but we deserve it for our greedy acquisition of M$ stock and products. We created this monster.
BTW - didnt Ballmer's Dad work for a US Auto Manufacturer in the 70s?
Yes, this is why everyone switched over to OS/2 Warp when every other commercial on television was for that product.
I'd rather be lucky than good.
I sent in my settlement information about 4 months ago, and waiting for the information back so I can send in the receipts for the stuff I bought... Anyone get their settlements yet?
There is probably no great mystery here. Win95 emerged as a mixed-breed 16/32 bit O/S to preserve compatibility with Win3.1 and MSDOS, with ActiveX bolted on later to wean gamers from DOS by providing direct access to high performance video cards, etc. Market driven solutions that inevitably came at a price.
Hopefully they won't need another decade to eliminate all those Outlook worms.
Outlook and Outlook Express will no longer let you open potentially dangerous attachments by default.
I am not convinced that any O/S or mail program offers complete protection against the sophisticated con artistry of those "Microsoft Patch" letters I see each month. It was an eye-opener as well to see a direct HTML link to a Windows executable in a plain text newsletter from a well-known open source project. Something trivially easy to fake.
Geez, I try to write a conciliatory response, and still can't help making snide Windows remarks. I need to lighten up a bit.
No offense taken.
Windows doesn't require the emotional investment that folks here put into Linux. So it is always a surprise when calls to take up arms against the Great Satan which is Microsoft fall on determinedly deaf ears.
It's not that I have any moral qualms over having done that, but really, MS has gotten very little of my money.
And the brethren went away edified.
Time schime, I read about it in a newspaper a while ago. I know such interesting unbiased information might take a long time to find on the internet.
I am one of many. My idea is not unique, nor do I expect my voice alone to sway you. I speak in a chorus of opinion.
Well actually, I was referring to the fact that he has read his will.
At least I think I am, I bought a boxed copy of an MS OS during the time period covered. The reason I didn't apply is because a)It sounds way too complicated based on reports I've heard from other people who have done similiar things.
b)I'm fairly certain you need your receipt, which has long since been recycled.
Basically, it sounds like more trouble than it's worth - not to mention I don't even live in CA anymore.
That's a pretty decent start.
Funny story: A friend and I both have similarly PC intensive engineering businesses. He uses Win2000, and teases me about Linux. Of course, I give it right back to him. I learned a couple of months ago that the Outlook worm problem became so bad that for some reason having to do with the way he runs his Exchange server, he can no longer double click a DOC file attachment in Outlook and view it in Word. There is no way for him to override this added security feature. Of course, I double click DOC attachments in Mozilla and view them in OpenOffice, and with no worries about executing malware. In this case, it looks like the situation is reversed. He still has the security issues of Outlook and Windows, but without the ease of use. He does what I previously had to do. Save the DOC file, run the application, then open the DOC file.
I got to do my Linux superior dance.
Of course, I didn't tell him when my USB scanner mysteriously quit working. I still haven't figured out the stupid Linux trick I need to do to resurrect it.
>> My ultraviolent Linux switch video.
If YOU are a current or former MS customer in CA who wants MS to pay for a chunk of your next computer upgrade, go to http://www.microsoftcalsettlement.com/
You do NOT need proofs of purchase for everything,
In this Part, you may make claims for up to five eligible Microsoft products you purchased between February 18, 1995 and December 15, 2001 without providing any additional proof of purchase. The total value of the claims listed in this part of the Claim Form cannot exceed $100. Voucher values for each eligible product are listed above and in Part C of the Claim Form. If your claim exceeds either five products or a $100 total voucher value, you may claim those additional products in Part D.
Luckily, I had the license keys for my later purchases.
Tech Public Policy stuff
WRONG
From the claim form instructions:
In this Part, you may make claims for up to five eligible Microsoft products you purchased between February 18, 1995 and December 15, 2001 without providing any additional proof of purchase. The total value of the claims listed in this part of the Claim Form cannot exceed $100. Voucher values for each eligible product are listed above and in Part C of the Claim Form. If your claim exceeds either five products or a $100 total voucher value, you may claim those additional products in Part D.
But I did have some of mine (no, I didn't have the PIDs for MS-DOS or Windows 3.1... they weren't using them back then, IIRC), so I got $129.
If you're a member of the class hosed by MS, i.e. any resident of CA who bought MS crap between February 18, 1995 and December 15, 2001, what are you waiting for? http://www.microsoftcalsettlement.com/
Tech Public Policy stuff
MS stock has been underperforming for more than 18 months. Everyone from common Microserfs to the Beast's top brass are selling as many options as are allowed. It's going down and not coming up.
Just about anybody who's been using Winblows boxes from DOS through W98 or so should legitimately qualify for at least the $100 that proofs of purchases aren't required for.
Tech Public Policy stuff
This so lame. The lawyers are the only class of citizen to benefit from this lawsuit. What's unusual about that? When do people wake up and discover that class-action lawsuits are only a scam perpetrated by lawyers?
My wife and I just received our share of a class-action lawsuit against one of our credit card companies...fifty-eight cents! We weren't even knowing parties to the claim. I wonder how much the law firm that worked on my behalf got? Yeah, right.
Goddamned kids! Get off my lawn!
I was skeptical that I would get anything out of this so called antitrust negotiated scam. I sent in the paper work when it was first announced. And, I'm still waiting for the check. It must be "in the mail." It must be going through the same clearing house that takes care of all those mail-in rebates that I never get.
I have read that many government entities have morality statutes that are suppose to keep them from doing business with convicted felons. Well, I have to ask, if Microsoft is a convicted felon then how can they do business with them? All you convicted felons out there that have been denied business with govt. should be able to do so with this setting the example.
It's the same reason why people today are still getting infected by the blaster worm. Because they just don't pay attention to what is going on. And that is why only 4 percent have done it so far. Because the vast majority of people just aren't aware of it. And don't really care.
My Gawd WTF...