Slashdot Mirror
European Council Approves Software Patents
A. S. Bradbury writes "ZDNet reports that the EU Council has voted to pass changes to European patent law that will allow the patentability of software. See the FFII for more coverage. Currently, the FFII states 'The Irish Presidency's proposal was passed, with support from Germany, France and most of the other countries whose ministers had publicly promised to oppose or at least abstain. The only no vote came from Spain (to be confirmed), Italy and a few others abstained.' As you may remember, Germany had previously promised to vote against software patents. The FFII news page seems to have been showing growing support in European countries for the FFII and other organisations fighting against software patents, but unfortunately that wasn't enough. So, what now? The European elections are approaching, which means MEPs might be more willing to listen to our views than normal. Slashdot has covered software patents in Europe before."
Ha, ha. Looks like the 'enlightened' European community doesn't think like a slashbot after all.
Man, only in the EU can I get First Patent!
the first to say "Fuck".
I mean, talk about a stab in the back.
Gamers Europe - Gaming News. Reviews.
Originally, I thought this would be a detrimental thing categorically.
But with all the thievery of intellectual property, and all the monopolizing tactics of the biggest corporations, maybe this is the protection that the individual/small corporate developers need?
I'm disappointed that the German government voted for after initially saying they'd at least abstain -- my understanding is that they could have held up the process if they had at least abstained. :-(
What the hell am I talking about?
It's not so much the possibility of patents that's a threat. It's also the way they are issued.
If the european patent office seems more sane than the us (a little like the japanese seem to do) and not issue patents for obviously stupid stuff, the problem might not be that big
Artists against online scams http://www.aa419.org/
Ok, now that software is patentable, where do I apply for a process which decodes digital content which has been encoded in MPEG2 standard? And while we are at it, what about a process that converts 3 numbers which range in values from 0-255, into visible light? Or better still, converts a group of eitht(8) ones(1's) and zeros(0's) into human readable text and numbers?
We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
Patent laws exist in the US and OSS continues to thrive . . .
My patent papers are in for the following ideas that I invented:
1) A method for translating program source code into a machine runnable format.
2) A method for displaying a computer's file system (see earlier patent for details) based on the top of a typical desk.
3) A number system based solely on the numbers 1 and 0.
4) A method for having sex with a computer (you know it'll happen one day... and when it does... I'm rolling in the cash)
-m
#
# Modus Ponens
#
Too late, I already patented that idea. Pay up!
Just take all the patents Ms has been filing and file the your self.
I may be mistaken, but it is my impression that this was passed against the will of the EU Parliament. Yet another example of how the EU's internal structure can be undemocratic.
According to Heise (german), the Germans forced a collection of amendments through. The idea behind the changes was to protect free software and avoid trivial patents.
Mielipiteet omiani - Opinions personal, facts suspect.
...the Pope is found to be Polish, and bears are found to be rather partial to crapping in the woods.
C'mon, didn't we all see this coming? Did we really think that those unelected officials which govern in our name would make a decision that reflects our best interests?
Tubal-Cain smokes the white owl.
Yet another reason why the European Union is a threat to citizen's freedoms. I hope you world government liberals are happy. Fuck European bureaucrats.
Gosh darn it.
I guess I'll have to move to sealand.
I'm moving to international waters... who'll join me!? We can even raise the old jolly roger. ARRR!!!
Schrödinger's cat is not amused—maybe.
Er...wait...what am I saying?
Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
Indirectly.
This will hopefully hasten the collapse of the software industry, highlighting exactly why software patents are bad.
The next 10 years could really be a mess, but hopefully people will learn from it.
This is all so typical. There is always someone, somewhere trying to twist the system to squeeze out some self-benefit, but always at the greater cost of society (and ironically, also usually at the long term cost of the selfish people themselves.)
.sigs are for post^Hers.
Can somebody tell me how I go about patenting specific grammar usage as that relates to a sentance or paragraph? Because this is exactly the same thing.
GO AWAY, OR I SHALL PATENT YOU ANOTHER TIME!
crap. good thing i live in the united states, no software patents here!!!!:)
> One time Chiang throw rock at duck and it hit tree and bounce and hit Chiang in face! hahaha! I miss Chiang.
Your friend killed himself with a rock and you just laugh at that?
Although I do agree that software patent laws are being abused in the US, I don't believe the idea software is patentable is categorically evil? How is software engineering different from classic engineering in this respect?
The law systems in Europe allow for less bullying by corporations. Therefore, I'm not overly concerned.
As a german citizen I am really angry that this happend although there was an intelligent debate. Seems like the big cash won over the judges. I am deeply concerned about what this means for the german software industry.
;-/
The sad part is that I believe that most of the propatent folks really believed that they are doing the software firms a favour and helping local developers up on their feet again. The Irony! The only thing that will probably happen is that the bigshots (i.e. Microsoft and the like) will further dominate the market instead of, growing, newcomers that could produce the next big thing and create jobs instead of outsorcing.
Look, I feel bad for you, really, but all we've been hearing for years on Slashdot is that Americans are idiots who keep electing bad leaders. The USA doesn't have a patent on bad lawmaking, so please keep that in mind, would you?
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
But there does look like there is some hope quote "The catch is that if the Parliament still doesn't like software patents, it has to have a majority of all MEPs to put its amendments, which means that in practice they need a two-to-one or three-to-one majority in the chamber,"
Hopefully this draft gets stopped in the next round of voting. If not, this could be a very bad thing for Europe developers of OSS.
Here.
I'd hope that the EU Parliment votes the way it should and not approve the new resolution. From what that article says, it seems that opponents of the new draft have an arduous task ahead of them.
There are only 10 kinds of people in this world... those who understand binary and those who don't
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3726375.stm
They say that the patent plans have been shelved indefinately. Who is right?
When this sort of thing happens in the US, there is a huge cry of "you don't like it, you voted for them. Vote them out." Well, now it's time.
I'm in the US, so I can't do it this time. But to all the Europeans on Slashdot: Your own governments just lied to you about an EXTREMELY important issue. Your own representatives said they would vote against software patents, and then voted for them. Your next move is very simple.
1) Send a letter to the appropriate bureaucrat stating that you are upset, and inform them that they have lost your vote.
2) In the next election, send a letter to their opponent telling them why the incumbent pissed you off (software patent support), along with a check.
3) Vote for the challenger.
4) Watch as a few people wake up and realize that the voting public is not completely stupid and full of sheep.
5) Profit (not in money, but in Freedom).
Your turn now. You take out those bosos while we work against George "Fascist" Bush here on this side of the Atlantic. If you don't, you only encourage our slide into an information dark ages.
--GrouchoMarx
Card-carrying member of the EFF, FSF, and ACLU. Are you?
Well, so let's think about it. Where do we draw the line?
The problem with software isn't coming up with the idea, but coming up with the implementation (and writing it down). That's what copyright protects.
I will be submitting two patents for the DO loop and the NOP very shortly. I will then order up my Bentley... oops, Bentleys, need to keep a cold one in the freezer, don't you know, in case the air conditioning conks out.......
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
Maybe your right about software patents not being a bad thing. If the patent office really does look for prior art and not present patents with prior art. This could be very hard though. They also need to not give a patent to a vague concept.
Evolution or ID?
Wasn't their a 'holder company' that you can file a patent for an OSS project and they would look out for your best interests?
link anyone?
Well, alongside Darl, this should put one of the leading forces for European software patents, Frits Bolkestein, right on the Axis of Evil of the software industry...
In a surprising development, internet news site Slashdot has become one of the first companies to apply for a European Software patent. The patent, describing the proccess of "seeing into the mysterious future by becoming a Slashdot subscriber", has caused much controversy over karma whoring. In response to the controversy, one Slashdot reader said "Imagine a beowulf cluster of karma whoring /. subscribers rushing to apply for various patents at the announcement that EU software patents have been approved."
In related news Slashdot is reportedly in the proccess of filing for another EU patent for the beowulf cluster.
Full Story at 10:00
France, Germany, and the Netherlands reported larger-than-expected budget surpluses, and the BSA is auditing every local and state government in Spain.
Not all bad news, though. Microsoft reported that its cash reserves decreased 0.0023% in the last day alone.
If you, as a small-time developer, hold a patent on an algorithm, you can be assured that the mega-corporation that "steals" your idea will hold a number of patents on things you do. They can cross-license with you (ie. you get nothing but the opportunity to remain in business), or they can litigate you to death. In no circumstance will you come out ahead.
Patents may have been conceived as a means to protect "the little guy," but nowadays, they're nuclear weapons on a very small battlefield. Your bombshelter is not deep enough.
-Hope
The EU still has a very long way to go before reaching US levels in governmental stupidity and corruption.
I don't think it's due to most Americans being greedy, arrogant and stupid, but some times you've got to wonder.
I mean, I just saw news about FFXII.
OK, now turn about is fair play.
We got some good Anti-US rants (that got modded Inciteful) from the previous Germany Software Patent article. Time for some good Anti-EU rants.
I'll be the first to start off with bitching about how I hate Germany because Germany doesn't live up to the ideals they so loadly proclaimed early this month.
But, of course, I love German people, just their government and companies are bad.
Now all you smarty-pants Europeans can sympathize with us for a change!
Not quite. Their amendments were gutted of the most important parts. Here an extract of the Italian speech, nicely summing up the situation:
Basically, the German amendment was meant to define what "technical contribution" means (i.e. sth technical, with the exception of anything that happens within the computer itself). Now, what's left are vague formulations such as "computer programs as such are not patentable", etc. which have been shown to be weasely and highly ambiguous.Say no to software patents.
it is my impression that recently all these amendments were voted out of the law and that now the origional law on software patents is going to be passed. This is a bad day in the fight for freedom to innovate and create in software.
How many computers are too many?
If I invent an algorithm that's worth patenting, why shouldn't I get to do it?
The protection that we need is the protection from getting sued if we have an innovative idea and dare to publish the resulting software. Software patents make great weapons against small developers who cannot afford a patent lawsuit.
If you put it out there and don't get a patent then you can use it and it then becomes prior art to any patents. If you can't afford a patent lawyer then just put it out there. If someone else patents it then yours is prior art to theirs.
Besides, what kind of dorky attitude is it that nobody should be allowed to build on an idea for twenty years?!? Imagine that somebody has had a trivial idea and you get the same idea from elsewhere, and build something much larger on it. Well, you cannot use your ideas for the next twenty years if the first person has patented it.
This concept can be held to any kind of patent. From engines to circuit boards to anything. So, your saying there should be no patents. No IP protections.
Evolution or ID?
About a year ago I wrote a petition to the bavarian primeminister because I wanted to learn about his position about software patents since I was planning on voting him and didn't like the idea of beeing in the dark about a vital aspect for my business.
Believe it or not, after three days I got a response from an actual person (!). Sadly the response told me that their party didn't favour any particular Operating System (Linux or Windows) since they believed in the forces of a free market. OK! He must have gotten confused about the ongoing campaign about Linux in my hometown munich or something but I hadn't asked him that. It was totally obvious that he had absolutely no idea about software patents and simply assumed it had to be related to that linuxthingy he heard about.
I wrote another response to clear up the misunderstanding but never got an answer. I still voted him since the other party offered an even worse outlook. Well, here we go! Sometimes it's just not funny to live in a democracy.
http://vrijschrift.org/swpat/press/final_factsheet 1092003.pdf
o ft ware_patent_links.html
Pus a different spin on the patents, what the cover, and don't....
http://www.ccp14.ac.uk/maths/software-patents/s
More patent links than you can shake a stick at..
This afternoon, 5 of us officially presented a petition against software patents to Dutch MP's responsible for Economic Affairs.
:)
:(
:(
We were rather lucky, since one of us had good contacts with one of those MP's, who was sympathetic to us and had considerable influence, resulting in a quick arrangement to hand over the petition. Normally, the procedure would have taken weeks.
Many MP's were quite interested in our information, and were particularly concerned about the fact that our minister of Economic Affairs, Laurens-Jan Brinkhorst, who was to vote in the EU council on our country's behalf, had apparently misinformed our national parlement.
They even announced they would be holding an extra debate, probably tomorrow.
During the day, we were kept informed through our mobile phones. It was nerve wreckening. We kept receiving conflicting reports about wether we would be getting a majority against or not. Near the end, we even heard that the Netherlands would probably have the deciding vote! You can understand that nearly drove us crazy.
Eventually, the news broke...
And again, mister Bolkestein seems to have played a crucial role on the side of the software patent supporters.
On behalf of all the people in the Netherlands, I would like to apologize to all the people of Europe for mister Bolkestein. He makes me ashamed to be Dutch.
The fight is not over, however! It will be more difficult now, but the European Parlement seems to be really pissed, and most Eastern members that are joining the EU now (and will be part of the parliament after the next elections in June) appear to be opposed against software patents.
Also, it amazed me how easy it can be to get in touch with influential people, as long as YOU KNOW THE RIGHT PERSONS that have the relevant connections!
In spite of the defeat, I'm still impressed with the difference we managed to make today. At least more people in our government are informed now. And we won't be giving up the fight! We made a few mistakes the last few days (hey, we were new at this), but we also accomplished a lot and also learned A LOT of lessons.
I would like to end this post with two pieces of advice:
1) I'm calling upon ALL European Citizens to VOTE IN THE NEXT EUROPEAN ELECTIONS! Even though there is much wrong in European politics, not using your vote and at least applying that little influence you do would be insanely foolish!
2) Let's all coordinate our lobbying efforts! If you have even just one or two hours a week available to help out, spend it by contacting certain EP's (preferably try to start a dialogue with one or two specific EP's, so you can concentrate on them and build up more personal relations) and contact FFII to notify them of your efforts and inform them who you are in contact with. There were only five of us, and look how far we have come in only 5 days time!
Let's get to work! Autumn will be upon us before we know it! And the elections are even less than a month away!
"Oooh, does that mean we get to kick some puffy white mad zionist butt?"
The only good solution would have been to stop patents totally.
Amendments sucks.
Just wanted my comments recorded on Slashdot, so when Im old and gray I can say I told you so. This sucks.
Currently, the FFII states 'The Irish Presidency's proposal was passed, with support from Germany, France and most of the other countries whose ministers had publicly promised to oppose or at least abstain. The only no vote came from Spain (to be confirmed), Italy and a few others abstained.' As you may remember, Germany had previously promised to vote against software patents.
Euros are liars and pushovers. This proves it.
-- Note: If you don't agree with me, don't bother replying. I won't read it.
Fortunately, for those of you who speak some of the original languages (French, German, Polish, Italian,...), there is a dual-track version available here, were one channel is Original language, and the other is the English translation.
Update: After a stalled effort on Monday, the European Council has approved controversial changes to a draft directive, meaning that Europe is now likely to see widespread patenting of software programs
The European Council on Wednesday voted through controversial changes to the European Union's Software Patents Directive
If this took place last week on wednesday, why do we only hear of it now? They can't mean tomorrow wedneday?
I don't get this.
:-(
The new parliament will have to vote on this, and the new parliament is going to have a lot more right-wingers from several countries (Germany, England). We will have to see how they vote.
Mielipiteet omiani - Opinions personal, facts suspect.
if there is hope, it lies in the proles.
pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
File patent after patent until the system dies. This is the only way to kill the beast.
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.
Thats from the article....
Now WHO THE FUCK told them they could throw those two cats in the same bag?
NO SIG
We slam our leaders here too, now we can spend our time equitably trading insults about the respective men behind the curtains in the USA and the EU.
A great day for democracy!
fortune -o
At this point, it still has to go back for a "second reading" to the Parliament. Considering that, in addition to the original issues, this is now seen as a challenge to democracy and the role of the parliament in the EU, it seems likely that the parliament will soundly reject it.
On the other hand, some amendments were made at the last minute which convined a number of the representatives; since the parliament version was also this bill with amendments, they might have actually passed that version.
- Circuit boards aren't generally patentable either in Europe (we have a sui generic right for chip design protection)
- A normal patent is on an invention, not on an idea like with most software patents. Patents were never designed to protect ideas.
There is an immense difference between "no (software) patents" and "no IP protections". Most software developers prefer copyright, trade secrets, NDA's and licenses over patents to protect software. Even if the study is carried out by the Fraunhofer Institute, owners of the mp3 patents.Donate free food here
"If you can't afford a patent lawyer then just put it out there. If someone else patents it then yours is prior art to theirs."
Yours is prior art to theirs _if_ you can _prove_ it is in court. Which rather requires that patent lawyer you couldnt afford in the first place.
If you cant afford to patent something there's no way you'll be able to defend yourself when someone else steals your idea, patents it and claims they were first, then proceeds to sue you for patent infringement on something you invented in the first place.
That sure is going to have such beneficial effects on that 'innovation' thing...
However, from our (OSS) point of view, it's less than acceptable, because the parliament's initial position was already a compromise between our position and the council. So we had to compromise twice. It's like you go buy a carpet, you haggle for a price, and as soon as you've reached an agreement, the salesman goes away, and now you've got to haggle with your boss, and are forced to take as your starting price the price you agreed on with the salesman...
This concept can be held to any kind of patent. From engines to circuit boards to anything. So, your saying there should be no patents. No IP protections.
There are arguments to be made that patents are never good, for anything. And I have yet to see an independent study that proves that patents are a net benefit.
But that wasn't really what he was arguing. What he was arguing was that 20 years is way too long for patents in the software industry, even if you concept software should be patentable. The software industry has lifecycles of 2 to 5 years (most products inching closer to 2 than to 5), meaning you go through 4 to 10 iterations of your product before your patent expires. That's too much. 2 or 3 product iterations is ok, but more than that is not in the public interest. And remember that patents, copyrights and trademarks are meant to serve the public interest, not the corporate bottom line.
Besides, just look at the examples of long lasting patents on useful stuff that expired. Take the patent of RSA. Once that expired we've seen a dramatic upsurge in encryption products. Before it expired, ssh was a niche product, now it's often the only way to log into a system. That single expiration brought dramatic benefits to the entire software industry. I'm not saying the original inventors shouldn't have benefited from their invention, but the RSA patent held back strong encryption, and the products based on it, for two decades.
Besides, I think there's something seriously wrong if the only way we can reward inventors is by handing them absolute monopolies for two decades. Solve the cause, not the symptoms.
I've completely lost faith in the EU. I was afraid that they would approve this, but when Germany announced they'll vote against it, that actually gave me some hope. Well, the parliament can't stop this anymore, that I'm sure of, so we will have those ridiculous software patents in Europe as well.
:> (I'm strange, I know)
There's no democracy here, there's no democracy anywhere. I think I'll just throw my computer to the river and move to the streets. I've always dreamed about that anyways
I'm going to patent the Windows 2000 source code that is all over the internet! (disclaimer: I never downloaded or looked at any part of that code)
Anyone else?
These are all honorable men. I'm sure they did what they felt was best for the common weal. Bribery is impossible in this enlightened day and age.
China? The land of the free.
edfardos
Will it be ported to the PC?
Somebody doesn't like Michael Moore?
Whom shall I vote? The guys which lied to me about what they would do, or the other guys, which didn't lie to me yet? The only thing I can be sure of is, that whomever I vote, they will lie and turn for the people with the money.
This is SO frustrating and SUCH a shame for democracy.
Sometimes you can't eat as much as you want to vomit... (Manchmal kann man nicht soviel Essen wie man Kotzen möchte)
I am European.
I think we should form an European association, a la NRA, where we promise to all vote against any party pushing for software patents, regardless of all other issues.
We are a lot to oppose software patents, and if we unite and call for vote against all parties supporting software patents, we will be heard. No political party can loose millions of vote in European elections, with their huge absention rates.
If we organize, we are strong enough to stop this outright corruption of "our" officials. I will tomorrow write a letter to my representative, stating him that should he opposes software patents, he'll get my vote, and that should he supports software patents, he'll never get my vote. I will also try to contact any association in my country (France) to see if we can organize some counter-power.
I am ashamed of this shit, I am ashamed of my government, and I am ashamed to be a citizen of such a corrupt system.
I won't leave a world to my children where they can't express mathemacial equations (software is just that) without being sued. I think i've never fell that motivated to engage in political action.
To all you slashdot europeans : do not drop arms. The fight is not over yet, and the incoming elections give us much power. We shall unite and fight. We shall not let software become patentable.
>>This concept can be held to any kind of patent. From engines to circuit boards to anything. So, your saying there should be no patents. No IP protections.
Yes I am saying that there should be NO patents. Patents have held up great break through's in the adoption of technology, over, and over, and over again!
Examples:
1) Car, Henry Ford to mass produce cars had to circumvent the car patent.
2) Laser, until the patent expired lasers were for the rich or unique. Now you can buy a laser at every corner.
3) GSM, while there are patents involved the reason why it worked is because everybody decided to forgoe the huge licensing fees.
4) And lets not forget software AND hardware, which to a large part worked wonderfully WITHOUT patents.
Patents are monopolies that only cause adoption rate of technologies to be 20 years delayed. I agree with copyrights, trademarks, and industrial design. The reason I agree with those is because they protect VERY specific designs and texts.
Patents these days are NOT for the small time inventor, but solely for the large corporations. Personally I would rather have a corporation rip off my product, as I can rip off their's as well.
Now about the R&D argument and that it would never happen. Well look at the examples where patents were avoided and the results is that the markets are BIGGER without patents!
"You can't make a race horse of a pig"
"No," said Samuel, "but you can make very fast pig"
Keep in mind that during the examination process the applicant may change what they are claiming to claim around you, but at least they can't come back and sue you for infringing since the (US case) 1449 form says your art was considered during prosecution. If you fear someone will try to patent your invention, publish early and often. Over a year and they can't swaer behind it.
-truth
I had a steady B+ in my AI class until I failed the Turing test...
According to the latest polls most Europeans are against software patents. It seems that some of those pseudo-democratic totalitarian European governments still have alot to learn in terms of democracy. At least in England and Germany people seem fed up with their current governments and it looks like we can expect some major political changes very soon.
The Commission "compromise" on Art 2(b) was to delete everything from "whereby" onwards, leaving just the addition "new and".
But apparently this was enough to win over Germany, Poland and Latvia, which was enough to prevent the whole Irish draft being sent back for the re-write it deserved.
Because in Soviet Russia, software patents YOU!
You are in error. No-one is screaming. Thank you for your cooperation.
Even though I don't live in Europe, my initial reaction to the headline was probably similar to most everyone elses:
"Ah, fuck."
I hate all men (regardless of skin coluor) except myself, and I believe that people that blow up jewish children are dirty brown monkeys who should be gassed just like the dirty jewish and amerikan pigs. Heil Europe!
1. Software companies not 'developers'. No creation will be possible without a legal department.
2. Competition by litigation not excellence. Expect a flurry of pantents held by failed projects to sap the strength and inovation from successful ones.
3. Logic squatting - people who don't want to create but to create Tolls on expression of a system or working idea. The only currency for these tolls will be money so non profit projects are doubly damned -- they didn't ask money to begin with so they have no money to give now.
4. Further undermining of the legitimacy of copyright and patent law. Genuinely moral people will be drawn into a creative contributions to society and will be made criminals by this bad law.
what a parcel of rogues
This law means nothing to the 300+ million Europeans who aren't part of the European Union
The parliament seems to be a puppet organisation with no real power. I think it may be best to avoid it until there is some real democracy.
I'll be emailing my existing MEPs with that sentiment and my voting plans.
Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
``Seems like the governments in Europe were getting along just fine without a meta-government anyway.''
Reminds me of this one:
Once all the Germans were warlike and mean
But that couldn't happen again
We taught them a lesson in 1918
And they've hardly bothered us since then
Seriously, I think the European Union is a Good Thing, and they've been getting a lot of things right. However, its political apparatus is rotten to the core on various levels, and we will feel the pain of that.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
Hold a major EU election ONLY in The Netherlands. Tell everyone that if they turn out to vote there will be as much sex and drugs as they want then...oh wait...nevermind.
Anthony Papillion
Advanced Data Concepts, Inc.
"Quality Custom Software and IT Services"
i always liked the quicksort algorithm as well as concepts like structures, manipulating data in memory and of course loops! finally i can get those patents. try to collect them all!
Still, RSA was not a trivial idea, so without misters R, S and A we might still have to do without it. In this case there is at least some benefit to society.
Let's be honest this is yet another permanent employment act for Brussles aparachiks. The act says they will permit patents to be filed. It says nothing about how many millions of Euro-person-hours will be required to be granted one.
These are the people who have 80 page specifications for a bus steering wheel. Can you imagine the requirements for a successful patent that has to be passed in 25 countries at the same time?
"the examiner may stumble on it (Google) and not allow the patent."
Considering the patents granted by the USPTO I'm not sure they've even heard about that 'web browser' thing.
Seriously, from what I've seen, to have a real chance of getting it actually reasonably considered to be prior art you need to get published in a 'real' place. Industry rag, something that can be reliably timestamped and will be considered 'published' by the court.
Preferably you should have it submitted to the patent office, as they actually appear to search their own databases... some of the time, as of course they've granted multiple patents for the same thing in some instances.
A web page or CVS checkin doesnt cut it. The likelyhood that a patent examiner will find it is very low, the likelyhood that a court would accept it isnt very high either, unless you had a seriously high profile website in the field...
``Yours is prior art to theirs _if_ you can _prove_ it is in court. Which rather requires that patent lawyer you couldnt afford in the first place.''
One of the differences between how lawsuits tend to work in the USA versus how they tend to work in Europe is that in Europe, the winner is usually compensated for the costs they made. Which means that you _can_ afford a patent lawyer - if you have a solid case.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
You're a piece of shit. I wish I were in the same room as you when you spit out those words. Your ass beating would be "Politically correct" where I come from, America.
"I hate Americans." - wannabe
"I am happy an American got beheaded." - watch your back, seriously.
"I wish more Americans had died on Sep. 11." - sounds like you were involved
"I hate George Bush." - nobody else had the balls to make any moves on terrorism.
"I hate white men, even if I am a white man." - ?
"I hate Israelis." - why cause they're trying to defend themselves?
"I beleive that people that blow up Jewish children are justified and moral heros." - you're a horrible human being
you're not worth any more effort.
Why the fuck was parent modded a troll?
wish I had points right now to mod parent up.
bollocks. Just write down a description of your idea, have one or two people sign/date it, and have it notarized. No $500 an hour patent lawyer needed. This is what a group of patent lawyers told the software development group in a persentation on what we should keep an eye out for with regards to patentable work, while I was working at Optical Solutions in Minnesota. Note to those who have heard of it, mailing it to yourself doesn't hold up in court. You can steam open the envelope and reseal it with whatever you want inside. The lawyers said, repeatedly, have one or two people sign and date a description, and have that notarized. Cheap and easy way to establish prior art. Just don't loose it.
``Well, you cannot use your ideas for the next twenty years if the first person has patented it.
This concept can be held to any kind of patent. From engines to circuit boards to anything. So, your saying there should be no patents. No IP protections.''
I for one believe patents are unfair (and thus objectionable) exactly for this reason.
And your statement that no patents means no IP protections is a bit unthoughtful. I am sure you are aware that there are other forms of IP, protected by copyright and trademarks.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
Well, at least now there is proof that Europe is just as dumb and misguided as the US. Now that we know Europe is no less hypocritical, two-faced or otherwise any different except in their snobbish demeanor can we get on with our lives knowing we're all screwed up.
But that's why there's an EU to begin with, right? So the rules and regulations passed by the EU body don't have to pass through 25 countries for separate votes. Once a country is part of the EU, whatever the EU says now becomes law in Germany, Italy, France, etc.
In other words, membership in the EU means giving up your sovereign rights as a European country in favor of the EU, which is one reason why England still hasn't joined (the other big one I can think of involves replacing the pound sterling with EU's fiat currency).
...and you run and you run and you can't stop what's been done...
How many people in North America are there? Let's see. The number of North America versus European posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 379x5 = 1.895 billion North American users. Asian posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of North American posts.
Therefore there are about 900 million people in Asia. A recent article put Australia at about 80 percent of the Usenet market. Therefore there are (1895+379+900)x4 = 12.6 billion worldwide Usenet users. This is consistent with the number of worldwide Usenet posts.
Due to population growth in other countries around the world, such as:
North America at 5.1%
Asia at 60.8%
Australia at 32.1%
Africa at 58.3%
Compare this with the 0.3% annual population increase of Europe, and it becomes clear that all too soon, it will become statistically insignificant.
All major surveys show that Europe has steadily declined in global population share. Europe is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If Europe is to survive at all it will be among government hobbyists, dabblers, and dilettantes. Europe continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, Europe is dead.
All the proof you'll need.
Qualitas edurus commercium, nullus penitus net rimor, nullus deus beneficium
anybody know where Canada stands on software patents?
and for how much longer?
RSA patent was on an algorithm which was and still is patentable in the EU and anywhere else in the world. It is a patentable work and is quite different from the One-Click abominations.
I fully agree with you that it held back encryption, but it was a concious decision by the patent owners to satisfy the needs and requirements of their major 3 letter customers. In fact it was a political decision in first place. RSA simply got as much money as necessary in government contracts to "avoid" making encryption popular for 20 years.
There are plenty of non-patent law means to enforce such a "wish" and the reason it is no longer pushed is that there are too many people interested in having at least some communication security. These are the same people who lobbied for the relaxation of export controls, so on so forth. IMHO the expriation of the patent was not the reason for the growth. It was the growth in ecommerce in general.
Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
http://www.sigsegv.cx/
Lassen Sie mich den zu patentieren ersten sein:
En español:
Déjeme ser el primer a patentar:
[Sorry, had to replace "junk characters"...]
void bubbleSort paren int arr bracket bracket , int arr_size paren curly brace ; ;
int i, j, temp;
for paren i = paren arr_size - 1 paren ; i >= 0; i-- paren curly brace
for paren j = 1; j if paren arr bracket j-1 bracket > arr bracket j bracket paren curly brace
temp = arr bracket j-1 bracket
arr bracket j-1 bracket = arr bracket j bracket
arr bracket j bracket = temp;
curly brace
curly brace
curly brace
curly brace
I just got my first ever polling card in the post a few days ago. "MEP elections? Bah, dunno what to do with that"
Now I do.
Changed introduced by Fart Bolkestein include:
- Removing the part starting at whereby the tehcnical..., as you outlined
- Changing technical field into field of technology in order to match TRIPS (let's hope this doesn't introduce some subtle semantic pitfall, you can't trust a Fart, after all...)
You need to remember that a number of amendments have already been integrated into the text before the session began.Interestingly enough, in the same intervention, Fart Bolkestein proposed an amendment saying A computer program as such cannot constitute a patentable invention, but he probably did so knowing full well that the words as such are weasel words, which can be bent by a skilled lawyer to mean anything he wants... It's quite odd, knowing the notoriety of the "as such" phrase, that nobody reacted to this obviously trollish amendment.
just wondering...
--rhad
Slashdot needs to interview Natalie Portman.
I'm calling upon ALL European Citizens to VOTE IN THE NEXT EUROPEAN ELECTIONS
For who? The vote is in the next week or two and I don't know anyone who's against this crap.
Give me a name and I'll vote.
Belief is the currency of delusion.
Your ass beating would be "Politically correct" where I come from, America.
Who says that it wouldn't be your ass which would be beaten in that encounter?
watch your back, seriously.
LOL. Are you going to cry now?
I've highlighted the diffs against the Presidency text proposed by Ireland.
The only diff left by the Commission was the phrase "new and"
Just one Totally Evil Patent is enough to destroy civilisation as we know it.
Despite all the stupid things the person you've answered said, I guess you're a bit confused. Bush isn't the one who's fighting against terrorism, indeed I'm not sure he's doing something useful about it. Just look at Iraq!
:-(
Sadly, there's been terrorism in many countries: 9/11 wasn't the beginning of nothing. Just look at Spain or North Ireland, among others
Israelis, Palestinians and all of us are, in part, guilty and victims of the civil war they're living in
Res publica non dominetur.
This is just going to force innovation away from the West and into the hands of emerging powers like China and India.
While the US and the EU commit ritual suicide via patent litigation and red-tape, the East will be making leaps and bounds in closing the innovation gap and capturing market share.
Outsourcing has already created the business channels and the beginnings of infrastructure to allow those nations to compete directly with the West. The only thing missing is innovation, and here it comes.
why? are the air conditioners made by lucas?
Has no place in this world anymore. We can scream, we can rally, and we can vote, but it doesn't do a damn thing to the outcome. All that matters to those in power is the money changing hands.
It is rare that public outcry ever changes laws, especially when money is the primary motivating factor for congressmen.
Just recently the US Supreme Court *upheld* a law that is essentially a gag-order on the NRA during election time. Free Speech is prevented, and the NRA cannot speak out again any person running for office for 2 months prior to the election. The opposite is not true however - the candidate is provided full free speech against the NRA during that time.
Get out and vote! HA! What a crock of shit anymore. Better that you just give large cash donations if you want your opinion heard.
-- If we don't stand up for our rights, now, there will be no right to stand up for them later.
The UK is indeed a member state of the European Union.
http://europa.eu.int/abc/european_countries/eu_mem bers/uk/index_en.htm
Now, we have to take the action: ...[your ideas here]...
1 - Create one OSS/FS patent pool for defensive protection
2 - Enhance Open Source Licenses patent-defensives
3 - Ask/"Open Letter" to *all* companies supporting Open Source movement asking for explicit promise to not use software patents to attack Open Source software. Please, ask to IBM, HP, Oracle, Sun, CA, Veritas, Novell, Fujitsu, Dell, etc.
4 -
I'm not sure how it works when your applying for software patents, but if you're applying for a patent on anything else there are certain rules that must be followed. The idea ( a machine or whatever it maybe) can not have been known to the public, scientists or researchers prior to the application. Therefore the patent office will search news and scientific papers to see if anyone has come up with the idea before. The application must also show an noticeable uppgrade of an old way of doing things or a completely new approach. One can therefore not patent opensource software without braking the rules already set by the patent officials. You must also provide a working prototype or approved technical drawings. This means you cannot patent something that has not yet been invented. -Lars
The talk will then be followed by round table comments and discussion by Euro-candidates from all of the political parties. Come along, and tell them what you think.
The event is free, and all are welcome.It's a 300 seater lecture theatre, and this has had to be organised at the last minute, so help us get the word out. Let's show the candidates that swpat is something we really care about.
V funny
It's not big, but it's clever!
Im European by the way, and strongly believed that this crap would never pass. Americans are welcome to point and laugh at me for my ignorance.
In some respects, innocense is ignorance; do not be ashamed of innocense.
God, fucking stupid politicians, they don't know shit about software and should keep away.
Problem is, politicians are by nature corrupt. No, every politician is not corrupt; but many are, and the carreer attracts those that love power for the sake of power. It doesn't take but one or two of those to ruin the whole batch, as they introduce corrupt bills (such as this patent "reform") that are sponsored by those with deep pockets and deeper self-interest.
In this case, the politicians that don't know shit about software were encouraged to vote, and educated by, the ones with the most self-interest in this perversion of knowledge ownership. And all they saw were the most "important" players in the software industry backing the bill.
The problem isn't politicians, per se, its the corporate influence on politicians that fuck things up so badly. Once the government starts serving the corporations instead of the people, we are screwed. And that has started to happen.
Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
One of the reasons politicians are already to easy to buy is that the cost of living in D.C. and mounting re-election campaigns is so high that there is no way they can survive without all the "fund raisers".
If we want our representatives to represent us, then we have to make it possible for them to do their jobs without constantly begging for money.
I think we need a two pronged approach. First we need to truely reward service to the country. Our congressional representatives should be finacially secure. Second of all, we should prohibit any other source of income.
We can far better afford to make every congressional representtive in this country a millionaire than we can afford for them to continue to make laws based upon who writes them the biggest campaign contribution check.
If you look at history, you'll find that most of the people who have betrayed their country have done it because they were financially strapped and someone gave them a way out. Underpaying the people who we trust with the purse strings to the U.S. treasury is foolhardy.
-All that is gold does not glitter - Tolkien
www.ra
This is another European scandal. The European Parliament follows popular sentiment and votes against them, while then Commission suckers the European council into accepting them. If ever there was an example of technocrats and apparatchiks getting out of hand this is. 10 large corporations in Europe will be given the right to tax the European population and terrorise thousands of small and medium size companies. It is a slap in the face for free markets and competition and a victory for syndic lists and corporatists. Who says crime does not pay! Remember, technically corruption is a criminal offence in Europe. So lets investigate on how many lunches, fun weekends cash payments and other "freebees" the people responsible received before they had the bright idea of supporting these measures. They thought the clod war had ended. By the looks of it the war against the apparatchiks has just begun.
Oops, my mistake. Sepnd too much time worrying about the U.S. going down the toilet to look at who else is going down the toilet as well. Sorry for the inaccuracy...
...and you run and you run and you can't stop what's been done...
By posting your message, you just cancelled your Troll moderation...
-truth
I had a steady B+ in my AI class until I failed the Turing test...
After reading the language, it looks like you could write a 'software pattent' for the 'process' of collecting taxes, or even the process of voting. Because the language doesn't limit this to being applied to a single program or executable (presumably to pattent office suite style interactions between software packages,) this could be applied to the use of the software the EU currently uses to conduct elections and collect taxes. Even if one did not write any one, or even any of the applications used. Using them together for an expressed end is patentable.
I am actually being serious here. Patent parts of the Govt. and charge them. The easiest way to show the harm these patents can do is to inflict that harm on those who allowed it to happen.
fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck
Now where am I going to move when the US tech industry goes to hell?
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Resin 2.1.13 (built Thu Apr 1 10:57:42 PST 2004)
As you see, nothing to shock your grand mother. Parent is obviously a troll, grand parent is not. Please mod accordingly!
Politicians don't give a flying fsck about their promises. Oh, wait...
It's very understandable; people needs jobs and governments want taxes, not the propagation of hippie dogma (don't say this is trolling or flamebaiting, it's reality).
Ooh, as a law student involved in patent litigation, I can't tell you how much I'd like to get my hands on your "description of your idea". Let's hope your activities do not deviate from the description in the slightest, that your description does not over-promise and underperform, that no words used are overbroad or ambiguous, that you define not only processes but uses under the patent, etc., etc., etc. In Canada the test for anticipation (prior art) is a single piece of work that directs you to the same result without possibility of error.
Of course, you can *always* rely upon the "blood-from-a-stone" defence, and just count on yourself being too broke for anyone to bother suing, but most people prefer to avoid such vows of poverty.
I patented the karma ratings used by slashdot! I expect you all to give me a +1 or you will have to pay up. /:
Please dont mod this down, I was only trying to be funny.
(\_/)
(O.o) This is Bunny. Add Bunny to your signature
(> <) to help him achieve world domination.
But this time, for the EP, I shall vote far left, if only because of this issue. Grrrrr.
As a conservative, not because of money or bribes or self-interest, but because of principle, I must say I am almost ashamed for many "fellow" conservatives who indeed only seem to be interested in bribes and self interests, not in just and fair politics.
...more people voted for Gore in 2000 than voted for Bush (at least according to the sources I've found, like here)
That means that -most- citizens of the United States would have preferred to have a different leader...
Game over for the Free Software movement. I can't even begin to express my anger. Bill Gates, Steve Ballmer. You sick fscking bastards.
The Death Penalty: Killing people to show others that killing people is wrong.
If you cant afford to patent something there's no way you'll be able to defend yourself when someone else steals your idea, patents it and claims they were first, then proceeds to sue you for patent infringement on something you invented in the first place.
Hmmm...this sounds familiar...wait! Isn't that exactly and precisely what SCO does? Hell on earth, this will encourage and lead to a boom in miniSCOs all over the place...looks like all ethical software development will have to become clandestine and done in rebel bases...obi-won-kanobi, come in...
...but patent lawyers are there to make sure you claim what you think you claim, not too little, not too much (as then they'd claim prior art). It'll probably protect your own idea, but they'll pick it apart. They'll probably get ten related patents that you simply can't help bumping into.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Still, RSA was not a trivial idea, so without misters R, S and A we might still have to do without it. In this case there is at least some benefit to society.
You assume they would not have made their invention without it being patentable. I think inventors invent regardless of the environment they're in. As soon as an inventor has the means to focus on his inventions, he will make them. And I highly doubt R, S and A were borrowing money based on the promised patent to fund the development of their algorithm.
I don't think the issue with patents is whether or not inventions get made, it's whether or not people are rewarded for advancing the state of the art in some field of science by a large degree. Conceivably we could set up a lot of systems that reward inventors without monopolising their inventions.
European countries can't keep a promise. They haven't been able to keep a promise for centuries. All they know how to do is oppress, lie, extort, steal, etc. I'm not surprised... and you shouldn't be either. Never trust a member of the EU.
Who says that it wouldn't be your ass which would be beaten in that encounter?
Because Americans always win. And I'd be more then happy to accompany him to any encounters. That guy better watch himself, seriosuly.
-Steve
...Direct Action has occured when the 'crats have failed to listen to their constituents. When a form of government becomes ineffective at satisfying/representing those it governs, it is (was?) often overthrown. Or at least shown that its people refuse to 'take it' anymore.
When the traditional channels of communication no longer work, establish new ones. While throwing a molotov at the parliament over software patents might be a tad extreme, a demonstration on the parliament steps may not be, or perhaps we could muster the guts for an industry wide IT walk-out? or maybe a little Hacktivism?
Improper use of direct action could damage the cause, but creative (Who defines civil anymore? Oh, that's right, those who are being disobeyed) disobedience could show those cashing the votes that the people who put them in power are not powerless themselves.
Not for all costs...
Also, we are talking software patents here. Software is generally less than trivial, and for every invention you as a lone inventor make, IBM has a thousand that you violate. How much do you want to bet that you're going to license a falsely claimed patent after all?
Talking as a Dutch (and thus European) citizen about our dutch politicians and our commisioner Bolkestein:
;)
I can't decide whether it is plain ignorance or willful ignorance on the part of our politicians? Either they are not informed whilst being paid to be, or they are only listening to just one side of the story (and by now we all know which!).
This whilst in the Netherlands it's come into fashion amongst politicians to talk about stimulating the "knowledge economy" (dutch: kenniseconomie). Well this should do just great, kill small (inovative) software firms and just hope that the monopolies will choose to invest in R&D whilst they could just cash in on their monopoly position. These are the same people that sell taking money away from higher education as a impulse to its quality. The same people that want a Harvard/MIT/Yale kind of University (in the Netherlands) whilst providing just a fraction of the funding these receive and trying to politically steer the directions of fundamental scientific research. The next election they will certainly not get my vote!
In the European elections I will again vote and hope that our European Parliament does not get side tracked and ignored again. Futile? I don't know but it's worth a shot. I it can't get any worse (ok it can.. but that's another story altogether and something I cannot change).
This message was brought to you by armchair politics
Copyrights do not protect works, they protect authors. The largest part of works are destroyed by copyright, as nobody but the author may preserve the works, and the author is by no means obliged to do so.
What about this one... I run a small web and software design shop in Ireland, and frankly, I was a little confused about the whole "software patents are bad" thing.
Until, that is, I read the thread earlier about there being a patent on "ordering things across the web via credit card", among others. Now the issues are far more clear, and I can see how, with one fell swoop, the owner of this patent can wipe me and 99% of the companies like me off the map.
So I'm going to let them all know.
In my town alone, there are over thirty companies and individuals in the web design business alone, never mind the software houses, and I would bet that they are as much in the dark as I was. I guarantee you that is about to change.
I might even go so far as to propose a single organisation to lobby for change, with representatives from each group. If one such exists, it certainly hasn't been doing its job.
I will also be writing to my current MEP, and all of the incumbents, with a very simple, clear outline of my position and the views against it, as well as the steps I am taking to rectify the situation. I will not, however, be enclosing a cheque or any financial campaign contributions.
What he can't kill, he has sex on. Trent.
Maybe some actions against the patent office should be considered.
;-)
I mean maybe the FFII could sue the patent office for every stupid patent.
For everyone, discredit as much as possible the patent system, in articles, at work, in our familly, etc... insist on the importance of copyrights.
People should laugh at companies or persons willing to patent something (software).
Listing of patents should not be seen as a benefit for a software (look at the splash screen of Adobe Acrobat).
Another alternative could be to automatically grant the use of the idea to every project that will not make financial benefits from it...
And btw, I wouldn't be sorry if some crackers manage to delete the big patent database...
Assuming that this pretty much kills innovation, yadda, yadda... does it leave the road wide open for countries in Asia (India, China, etc.) to leave everyone else in the dust since they aren't fettered by all this patent bullshit?
"In mathematics, it's not enough to read the words -- you have to hear the music"
I'll be more than happy to accompany the French guy who made the original post and help him beat you both to a bloody pulp.
-Patrick
how can you tell them the're using your patent if you can't see their code?
There is a big difference in the realm of hardware and software. If I patent a type of screw, I have the soul right to produce that screw, and license the production of that screw. Great.
Now, some inventor comes along and thinks: "hey, with this screw I can make this new type of motor." So, he goes and buys some screws that cost a few cents each and makes his few test motors to prove the concept. The motor works great, so he goes into production buying the individual screws from his local licensed produced of the screw. All is well.
In software it doesn't work so well though. I want to incorporate some new concept into my program so I can build it up to some grander concept. I don't buy an individual instance of this concept, I have to become the licensed producer, which is a whole lot more expensive, and a far greater hassle. As well, if the patent holder decides no, he doesn't want me to have a license, I'm probably hooped. At least in hardware you can often find substitutes, but when you have control of a whole concept, there is no substitute.
This is exactly what you need to communicate, that it's easier than you think to influence people in the right position to do something about this mess.
There's also a big point in making things visible and digestible by the general populace. Most people don't know patent law, but use the analogy about patenting the recipe for bread, and they get it pretty quickly.
The FFII people have done an excellent job, but with a clearer message and more planning for the demo etc, they would have had far more impact.
So now's the time to make sure the European Parliament doesn't approve this. Get up, contact the media - radio stations, TV, newspapers - and let your voice be heard.
I'm personally going to do this even if I live in Norway (which is outside of the EU), because the important people here have close ties to people on the inside of the EU parliament.
We have nothing to lose, everything to win. Get up, get out, and spread the message. This cannot continue.
It was bought and paid for by amoral corporations who pursue nothing but a God known only as "the Jefferson."
The answer is simple. Money is corrupting (Eh... Ok, wrong tense) government, and solution is to remove money from the equation. If you are elected to high public office (State or federal level), you may recieve no money WHAT SO EVER from anyone during your campaign, or during your tenure of office except for the normal salary of a congressperson. If you do recieve money, you are out NOW (As in, "You no longer work here. Get out.") and your seat is vacant until the next elections.
Of course, there are obvious reasons the current criminals in office will not allow anything that would force them to be honest to occur.
On the facts then: the only reason this got started in the first place was US pressure. (Not unlike the passenger data treaty for EU citizens traveling to the US.) That is political pressure. From those same US lawmakers we indeed do despise so much over here in Europe. For their complete incompetence.
Oh, the US MADE you do this! I see, I was mistaken in the belief the EU had any kind of free will. Now that I know they are just US puppets I will adjust my prediction models of behaviour accordingly.
Is not the truth closer to "Business made us do this"? I'm sure EU businesses want a piece of the IP action american businesses have had.
While your anti-US slant is predictible, it's not fully accurate and is obscuring the larger picture.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
From the AP - from http://www.iht.com/articles/520593.html
Done in by disputes over language and liability, European Union governments on Tuesday killed a proposal for an EU-wide patent that was a crucial part of a drive to cut costs for companies and make European businesses more competitive.
.
But ministers from the 25 EU countries did reach an initial agreement on a directive backed by big European high-tech companies that would allow software that is part of a mechanical device - like a mobile phone - to be patented.
.
What they approved on Tuesday omits amendments added last year by the European Parliament, largely supported by smaller businesses and advocates of "open source" software, setting the stage for a showdown in conciliation this autumn.
.
It was not immediately clear what would happen now to the EU-wide patent idea. An Irish spokeswoman said it would be up to the European Commission to decide whether to draft a new proposal. A commission spokesman said no decision had yet been made.
.
(AP)
..... psuedo democracy.
where reality is that of taking payoffs to go against the population.
This does invalidate the system.
On June 13th we within the European Union will have the election of the European Parliament, and its result might well influence whether the result of the European Council will be accepted or needs to be discussed further.
If you live in Europe and prefer the latter I suggest you to go to this election and vote for a party which is against this result. Currently the only pan-European party network clearly against software patents is the "European Federation of Green Parties", all other party networks have vastly differing opinions depending on the country.
Keep in mind that in the election of the European Parliament you vote for specific local people about whom you often can find more information on the internet. At e.g. following page you can read exactly who voted for or against software patents last time in the European Parliament, you may be able to find your local candidates among them.
Wish luck and success to us (sorry to have to start at 0 here, please mod me up).
Many examiners actually do use google, and as long as the date can be proven the court will accept documents found that way. Normally, if there is a date on the webpage and there is no reason to doubt that date, then that should be enough, although I don't know of any court decisions. I would say public cvs repositories are ideal since everything in it is timestamped.
At least in Europe this would not count as prior art, UNLESS you publish it as well. And if you publish it, then there's no real need for a notary. Just post it to some newsgroup so that it's archived in google groups with date and all, for example.
The US patent system is based on first to invent, so if you can prove you invented earlier you will probably be safe. The rest of the world uses first to file, so if you don't file and don't publish and somebody obtains a patent, then bad luck for you.
So when are we going to pull our heads out of our asses and set up a patent fund for opensource projects. Yea yea tell me all you want its wrong and I will tell you that opensource will be patented off the planet. We need to wake up and work with the politics not against them. We dont have enough people or money.
Only thing they'll gain is a competetive advance, I suppose. But in absolute terms, I suspect it'll slow progress there too, because there'll be less innovation from Europe to build on...
sig is my sith nature.
Give them time. They've certainly amassed an impressive stack of prior art already. )-:
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Hey, how does one set up Apache to exclude a list of countries from access to a site?
...and not "me". Look inside yourself, you will find irrational hatreds buried there too. It's human nature. After the flood, no raindrop will admit any responsibility.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Indeed, you may have a point. However the tragic reality regarding the "representative democracy" of EU is that it is nothing but a fable in most countries. A myth that many countries representatives need to believe to feel good about themselves while they transfer the little power people had to a super-national structure which they have little or no way to influence. In fact if you study the statistics of elections for MEP and alike, you will reach the conclusion that they hardly represent the people of their respective countries. My greatest fear is that people actually start to vote come election time, in a feeble attempt to rectify their bad call to vote yes for EU membership. This will only give the EU representatives the mandate they need to screw us over yet again, as in this case. Do not grant them validity in claiming they represent the people of their respective countries. If you feel the need to do something, please do so locally due to the lack of democratic mechanisms within the EU. Place EU hostile politicians within your government, that is the correct forum to achieve the changes you desire.
I live in Sweden and I have opposed the "EU-project" since the beginning and finally I see some light at the end of the tunnel. The dishonest and shady tactics to circumvent the will of the people are finally starting to shine through the shroud of self-righteousness achieved through rhetorical statements about brotherhood amongst countries and such crap. People over here are beginning to wise up substantially which is showing in local polls and in the convincing way the unified currency project was shoot down in flames here in Sweden. People are beginning to realize that the EU project is a construction to obfuscate corporate involvement in policy making and a place for the elite to pat each others backs, something that have been very hard to do with the political mechanisms active within Swedish government.
If you go against the people, you will get burned in a country with a strong belief in democracy.
Because software is everywhere. All the VB and Delphi devs here on /. might forget about the embedded logic that's in damn near everything we can buy. Avoid software? OK, don't use your dishwasher or TV either. Or your car. As a developer, software patents piss me off, but as a regular citizen they piss me off even more. And I'm especially pissed off that Germany renegged on their word.
Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
The official US translation sucked ass when it was canned. Good thing it never came out over here.
Patents aren't bad for everything. Companies which develop new medicines can be sure that they get their investment back because they have the patent for that specific drug. And after a limited time the drug enters the public domain and everyone is happy.
I would further like to encourage German readers to write an email or fax to the federal minister of Justice to complain about her decision and to support journalists in decoding the network of what seems (on first sight) filthy lobbyism and inconsistent behaviour. Written letters and faxes are expected to have more impact due to their tangible nature.
If you don't spend EUR 1 on a stamp now, you might have to spend EUR 10000 on lawyers later, or get fined for using an algorithm that somebody happens to have patented without you knowing.
[E-mail me if you can't find your rep contact details but would like to do something about it.]
Ideas should be free.
does anyone know how to contact the people that were involved?
i am ashamed to be Swedish seeing that Swedish participants shows such incompetence that they actually believe the German proposal does anything good.
Im bludy FED UP with these jokers.
.. Why ?
The whole UE counsil is a sick joke.
The only reason why this is possible is because all those clowns in the counsil are second hand politicians who are past there expirery date and can be bought for peanuts just to have a few more minutes of "fame" ( Bolkestein the dutch rat ). I hate to admit that i'm dutch ( even more now).
This is very bad. And so this is how it begins.
I hearby reject and do not recognize the authority claimed by the body knows as the EU.
parliament. It is a body for corporate interests but mainly for themselfs.
They can suck my hard... disk.
and Germany
Retep Vosnul.
...Are Belong to Us.
You have just proved the parents' post. Patents are being used to *stifle* work in the industry.
The bill has to pass the EU parliament a second time, make your voice heard.
Soon are elections (mid june)
check out which politions oppose the software patents, write to your representatives of various parties and try to make your voice heard.
And for christs sake, go voting this time, the EU parliament usually has a low voting percentage, strengthen those who oppose this bill.
People like McCarty, Fortou and Boelkstein have to be voted out or at least weakened.
And for all citizens in the new nations in the EU, please do the same, you now have a good chance to get your economy up, but this bill would cause the same problems in your countries as it does over here in the good ole, west.
Gotta love how all the insults are comming from an "Anonymous Coward".
IP address ranges in .htaccess should block them
but you need to know the IP ranges for those countries.
For goodness sake, the goverments are putting limits to what we can think and discuss, If I want to think and put my thoughts in wirting (which is what software programming is) I should not be impeded to do so by applying patents to something that should not be patentable: human thought.
We are royally screwed when there are people out there that consider that it is reasonable to impose limits on free thinking and sharing of ideas.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Just a short addendum... I phoned with the secretary of a MEP today, and the result was:
The "pro" guys are the Commision and the Council, both of whom aren't voted directly. The Commission members are voted by the Parliament and the Council members are sent by the Member states Administrations (2 Counselors for each large state and 1 for the smaller ones, IIRC).
The MEP secretary was very sure that the Parliament would never pass such a bad Software Patent law.
Let's hope he's right...
Technically that was Republic of Texas. Of course, shorty there after was the battle of San Jacinto which ended with the loss of 1500 Mexicans (split roughly 50/50 between killed or captured). The Texans had 20 wounded and 0 KIA (IIRC). This defeat in turns leads to the American victory in the Mexican-American war and the annexation of land that now accounts for almost 1/3 of CONUS territory.
between the greater and lesser infinities sleep the dreams undreamt
Here is a relevant quote stright out of the latest EU portal newsletter (europa.eu.int/newsletter/index_en.htm):
One more thing to keep in mind during upcoming referendum(s) on that constitution.
ObOnTopic: Poland voted for software patents only because Germany did.
"The geek vote" alone won't make the difference, but never underestimate our ability to educate the electorate: These might be the first European elections in which we have a chance to make our voices heard and convince a significant number of people of our point.
However, at the same time, this might also be our last chance to do so on this level: With the current parliament, we have only narrowly averted an opening of the floodgates for spam, and probably failed to obtain an unequivocal ban on overreaching surveillance; we have seen the EUCD being adopted despite all the damage the DMCA had done, and now there are software patents looming if majorities turn the wrong way. From RFID to biotechnology, a number of issues are emerging which need to be regulated by the knowledgeable.
If we don't get enough awareness into the next European parliament right now, "geekdom as we know it" may not prevail throughout the next legislative period. One of the questions about this generation that I for one don't want to have to answer one day would be this: "Dad, why did you let Linux die?" (...and there are similar ones about the entertainment industry and many other issues!)
Europe in the years to come can be high-tech heaven or harder than hell - the choices are ours, and they are to be made right now.
Precisely at this point in time, we do have the knowledge and the momentum to make almost everyone realise what is at stake, and to do so and achieve considerable coverage before next month's elections. With all the recent incidents making technology headlines even in the general media, and now the patents decision as an even louder wakeup call, people -and journalists in particular- are quite willing to listen to what the computer-savvy -and the "wizards of (FL)OSS" in particular- have to say.
A brief window of opportunity is wide open right now - don't dare to complain later that you "should have" spoken up.
I wasn't trying to be funny.
I miss Chiang too!!
But I got a B+ in sarcasim.
More informations in my journal
Not really democratic, don't you think?
If open source, well, any, software is shown to infringe upon software patents, would it be illegal to still use that same software?