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Mozilla Foundation Seeking Switch Success Stories
maggeth writes "mozillaZine has a story about how the Mozilla Foundation is looking to know if any organizations have switched to Mozilla products. Is your organization among them?" Can anyone point out an example of a library system switching? Lots of public libraries use PCs set up as kiosks running a web interface to their catalogs, and they all seem to use IE -- so, no tabbed browsing.
I'm writing to share a tragic little story.
My Dad has a webbrowser that my sister and I used to use for our homework assignments. One night, I was browsing a website on it, when all of a sudden it went berserk, the screen started flashing, and some really weird pictures just appeared. Lots of them. And I was at a good website! I had to reboot and find it again really quickly. Needless to say, my rushed webbrowsing wasn't nearly as good, and I blame IE for the trouble I got into when my Dad checked the cache.
I'm happy to report that my sister and I now share Mozilla Firefox. It's a lot nicer to work on than my dad's webbrowser was, it hasn't let me down once, and my cache has been really clean.
Thanks, Mozilla.
Karma: SELECT `karma` FROM `users` WHERE `userid`=138474;
Hope they dont make it like that annoying apple switch campaign...
Lots of public libraries use PCs set up as kiosks running a web interface to their catalogs, and they all seem to use IE -- so, no tabbed browsing.
and they would be real useful if anyone could actually see what they are browsing past all the pop-ups and ads!
The reason why you only see IE on public computers is b/c it is the most compatible browser in terms of usability (I mean in the case of it actually functioning, even so that is rare). I bet that any library with public computers that uses mozilla would have to hire an extra person to show people the advantages. Now if some people from the /. crowd would volunteer an hour every week and do this, I'm sure you will find some open arms somewhere in your community. What a great way to spread open source!
who | grep -i blond | date cd ~; unzip; touch; strip; finger; mount; gasp; yes; uptime; umount; sleep
For a site running Active Directory, IE can be locked down completely through group policies. Does anyone know if it is possible to do similar thing with Mozilla (ie. Default start page, proxy setttings, etc)?
. . . maybe Microsoft will counter with some people who switched from Mozilla to MSIE, a la the infamous Windows switcher ad.
Call (206) 338-5780 COLLECT for information about a genuine BA, BS, MA, MS, MBA, or Ph.D.
I switched to Mozilla 6 months ago and have been enjoying it ever since.
When I got home for the summer and started work back at a Jewelry Store in my hometown, I was able to switch three of the people at work over to Mozilla FireFox. The biggest thing they were impressed with is that 99% of the spyware/ad-ware just doesn't work on it because the coders of those products only code for the dominant browser (IE crap-ola). They also love the Tabbed browsing, the nice clean interface, and the easy access to all your privacy controls (cache, cookies, history etc.). Overall, it's been a great experience with FireFox except for the occasional VBScript-using site with which we have to open up the evil IE to use. I look forward to switching more people over to the dark side of th....never mind.
"To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." - Tennyson
Having dealt with friends' Windows PCs lately and the sheer volume of destruction spyware, IE, and all the rest have caused, I would think that -- at this point -- tabbed browsing would be the least of anybody's worries in "library IT".
Why does tabbed browsing keep rising to such prominence as a must-have feature more than simple standards-compliance and reasonable security does?
-- Maciek
Since Firefox came out all of my friends have ridiculed me for using IE, and I had played around with it a bit but was not impressed. I've been a faithful IE user since 2.0 (I know =P) and wasn't about to change.
However lately I had been working on a website and in the cross browser testing I've been using Firefox 0.8 and on for Mozilla compatibility. Its taken extensive use of Firefox but I've almost completely switched. I love the tabbed browsing and it renders so much faster on my computer. I've also found it seems to handle some websites better than IE, especially with unknown extensions. I just wish it had Windows integration, but maybe someone will figure that out. Microsoft has a lot to worry about for IE 7. Firefox is improving with every version and I have fewer and fewer reasons to use IE.
Well, I switched a few years back and I must say Mozilla and I keep telling my organization that it's the same as Netscape but without all the extra AOL crap. They just look at me sideways... *sigh*
It's always the same, I say, "Hey guys look at {technology A}," and they look at me sideways. That's what I get for working for computer peasants.... *sigh*
Maybe if Mozilla shipped standard on IBM computers it'd be easier? (that's all they'll buy)
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
Having just been looking into setting up one of those library kiosks, I can tell you that's it's because all the easy-install products are built with IE. There are lots of websites about how to set Mozilla up in a kiosk mode, but they invariably involve hacking JavaScript and messing with lots of configs. That takes too much time for anyone but the largest library systems. It's much easier to buy a $30 product like Fortres or Cybrary.
We need an easy download and install kiosk Mozilla, preferably also with an OS lock-down tool to make the catalog PCs as maintainence-free as possible.
At work I've been relying on the Google Toolbar on IE to block annoying popups. Within the last two months, the ad spammers have figured out how to write a webpage to beat the Googlebar. So I burned a copy of Firefox, brought it to work and installed it. Popups are gone, though I doubt the admins will be happy that I did.
You can use the "tabbrowser extensions" extension available from update.mozilla.org. It allows tabs to be dragged and droped, duplicated, auto-reloaded (usefull if you have your e-mail page open), named, colored, and saved upon exit. Overall it is *very* usefull.
Regards, Rob
There were some sites that wouldn't work, although we haven't run across that problem recently. And with the systems set up this way, we can guarantee patrons' privacy from each other (wiped home directory every logout), we can easily synchronize the machines with a central image at night, and we're immune from 99%+ of software exploits on the 'Net. It also means I can spend my time creating new programs and systems for the library, rather than dinking with Windows all day.
Not long ago, every public access computer in the Austin library system was paralyzed for several days by a wandering Windows virus. We were sitting pretty at that point! :-)
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I used I.E. for a long time, and it was a terrible terrible time.
Everytime I click on a porn-site, a zillion pop-ups appeared, covering the important pics of naked hot chicks. If nothing else, the pop-ups did a wonderful job lowering my saluting penis. It was horrible.
But then, my girlfriend recommended that I use mozilla! Boy, it was a dream come true. No pop-ups. And the amazing thing called "TABBED BROWSING". Now, I don't have to open multiple windows of I.E., I can have multiple PICS of naked hot chicks in the same browser! I tell ya, nothing turn on my libido then being able to stare at the naked hot chicks in various positions, all at once! !
So, thank you Mozilla! I love you!
Mode (3) smart-aleck mode. Press * to return to main menu.
Most patrons are barely capable of using existing public-access terminals let alone a multi-tabbed browser.
Additionally, the majority of catalog lookups are single-item queries--I'm not convinced that throwing a better browser at them would significantly enhance their library experience.
Mozilla does this if the browser or computer crashes (like a power outage) suddenly...it'll offer to restore the tabs you had open before when you restart the program. I don't know about having it *always* do that, but apparently the functionality is there.
TabBrowser extensionsi nfo/tbe
http://extensionroom.mozdev.org/more-
Probably one of my top 3 favorite extensions. Gives you a lot of control over tabs, saves your last sessions, allows you to reorder tabs, group tabs with the tab they were linked from, and a lot more.
Trondheim public library is using Mozilla on its public PCs (30 machines). I'm not sure if they switched from IE, however.
17779 eligible voters in a district, 17779 'vote' as one. This is Russia.
Even with the outbreak of security flaws and the whatnot from IE, the organizations that already are too busy worrying about other things won't be switching, unless security is the number one priority.
Why would a library switch? Where I am, the inertia is quite obvious because you can see how old the system is. Sure there are upgrades here and there, but seeing brand new equipment and software side by side makes people wonder.
The switches will probably occur if the organization aren't too caught up in other things, and have the resources to change. Of course, being fed up with IE is also another motivation to switch.
We have about 5% Mac users in my organization. All run Firefox as a browser and a few run Mozilla products as IMAP mail clients.
It's an apples and oranges comparison, because the Mac users are a bit more the geek than Windows users; they are capable of understanding a browser interface and I don't have to walk them through the most basic end user tasks. Not a blanket endorsement of Mac, simply because those users are (as previously stated) a bit more the geek.
I'm trying to get all the applications we develop web-standardized so I can eventually ditch the whole MS schtick -- accessible from compliant browsers an linked to open formats.
It ain't easy Ringo, but I'm trying.
http://extensionroom.mozdev.org/more-info/sessi
It can also reload tabs after a crash automatically. I can't live without this plugin.
Enjoy =)
No, but we did switch to Acme Lightninggecko. Well, at least until one of us restarts our browser or pops up a new window, anyway.
Show me on the doll where his noodly appendage touched you.
I'm a sysadmin at a university library, and we have to run Windows for plugins that professors require for their classes. Mozilla nd Firefox can't be locked down like IE can through the active directory. A security change is a couple clicks in a central location with an Active Diretory and IE.
With Mozilla we would have to visit each workstation.
At my school library, I work as a semi-admin (well, I know all the passwords and help out a lot). Most of the stuff I end up doing is removing spyware. I installed Firefox on every box, but nobody was using it, and the spyware continued to pile up daily. As a last result, I replaced the firefox icon with the IE icon, and renamed it to "Internet Explorer." Everyone started using it, and I heard no complaints.
This is probably an evil way of doing things, but people are set in their ways, once they switch they like it, but getting them to not just use their same old browser is difficult.
The college I go to, a SUNY I won't bother naming, has both IE6 and Netscape 7 on every computer. Does that count? Probably not I guess...
I always found it interesting, and a tad odd, how at school I see almost as many people using Netscape as IE (especially adults like professors and my boss). I guess to some people, 'Netscape' still is synonymous with 'The Internet'.
And then there were people like my comp sci professor, who would use one IE one day and Netscape the next... that always grated on my nerves. I couldn't figure out if he didn't know the difference between them, or just didn't care, or what...
~ Aero
Can you ever really get enough of Ellen?
"Study your math, kids. Key to the universe." -The Archangel Gabriel
Unless they've vastly improved MyIE2 since I've last used it, the "interface" is a huge mess. I will admit it had alot of function to it, but only useful to someone more technically inclined. The "average joes" you refer to would probably immediately shut it down in terror.
I for one have never had a problem with Mozilla. It has performed flawlessesly from day one without a single hiccup or burrrrr8~ ^%@ ..^ & ! # # ,, ~ 8 j ,,, NO CARRIER
Table-ized A.I.
If you're talking about Firefox, then I'm really not sure exactly what about the UI you don't like (you never really specified). If you are talking about non-firefox mozilla then I agree. But then take a look at Firefox. It's going to replace the Mozilla suite relatively soon (I think), and may be the UI update you're looking for.
Everyone else: Take a look at a Maxthon screenshot or three. I see a few shots that are extremely cluttered an horrible, some are good though. Nothing really head-over-heels better than firefox. At best I'd say they may be about the same.
Seriously though, I'm curious as to what parts of the UI you don't like. This is open source, if you don't like something, suggest changes! The reason I would consider your post troll or flamebait is that you never justify your argument with parts of the UI you don't like.
One thing I see different is that some of those shots have the tabs on the bottom of the browser window. That's interesting. I wonder if you can do that with firefox... I'm sure someone could figure it out if they really wanted to.
I'm sorry, Apple owns a patent on "switch" advertising, we have cases pending against proctor and gamble
you can however advertise switching to apple products, speaking of which, have you tried safari?
I think it would be wise of the Mozilla developers to begin thinking about their next big innovation in web browsing, so that "switchers" will continue switching even after the inevitable addition of Tabbed Browsing to Internet Explorer.
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I've been using Mozilla Firefox for 3 weeks now, and lemme tell ya... i'm not going back to IE. Great, great product, and it's simply wonderful to see a product finally give IE a run for the money (been a long time coming since the Netscape browser wars).
Incidentally, you can download *optimized* builds specific to your particular processor here:
MOOX
The proper builds run noticeably faster on my AMD XP and Centrino procs.
We're an aggressive small business based south of Boston, one of the quietly prospering dotcoms that didn't get razed by the bubble bursting. About a year ago, I was brought on to help manage the many technology challenges facing our company, and one of them was taming the chaos of the Internet from an end-user perspective. Mozilla FireSomething was exactly what the doctor ordered to reduce chaos and help bring safer browsing to the company. Combined with Thunderbird's built in spam reduction, our use of Mozilla products and the switch away from Microsoft-based products has kept us safe from a majority of exploits available today. We've even begun developing to take advantage of Mozilla's unique features, like tabbed browsing, which expedites the processing of student loans. No more browsing with hundreds of IE instances open, just one clean, easy to manage browser interface with tabs. If you ever call in to StudentLoanConsolidator.com to have your federal student loans consolidated, the clicking sound you hear in the background is our in house loan consolidation application and several tabs in Firefox being opened just for you.
Kudos to the Mozilla team for making our work more productive than ever!
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Internet Explorer may have some problems, but I can look past those since MS graciously supplies me with FREE patches.
The words of Clippy
while it wasn't exactly their intentions, my school is slowly switching over to firefox. basicaly the first thing i do when i sit down at a 'fresh' computer is install firefox as the default broxser
Nathan Friedly
Galion Public Library uses Mozilla.org browsers exclusively. (I'm the
computer guy.)
However, we previously used mostly Communicator. We did have MSIE on *one*
computer at one point, but that system was so much trouble that when Windows
got cranky and needed to be reinstalled, we didn't bother. The librarians
were offering to dig a hole in the flower gardens and bury it; they weren't
interested in having it fixed; they wanted it replaced. Also, reinstalling
would have been a problem since we didn't have the original driver disks
(not my fault; we didn't have them when I was hired), and with its being a
Compaq Deskpro (no model number _anywhere_, and there are dozens of models,
and you have to know which one you have...), finding the correct drivers on
the net was promising real pain. This was late 2000. I put TurboLinux on
it and it served as a CGI server for a couple of years after that without
incident.
None of the librarians has ever asked me why we don't use MSIE. (Some of
them have asked me about the difference between Mozilla and Netscape, though.)
No patron AFAIK has ever specifically asked for Internet Explorer either. I
do get occasional complaints from patrons about certain plugins not being
installed (most frequently Flash), but that's not nearly as many complaints
as I get about the Yahoo! Mail and Hotmail interfaces (neither of which we
endorse or recommend; we officially do not provide email: we merely provide
access to the web).
I should note that our catalog stations within the library are not web-based.
We have a web-based catalog so people can get to our catalog from home, but
within the library the catalog stations are VT510 dumb terminals, connected
only to the automation system via ports (on a DECServer) which are only
privileged for OPAC (i.e., the catalog) and nothing else. For our older
patrons, the dumb terminals are easier to use and less intimidating than
a web-based system. (The OPAC literally tells you what buttons to push,
and there's no need to know how to use a mouse, which is good because a
lot of people around here aren't comfortable with computer mice yet.)
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
Lots of public libraries use PCs set up as kiosks running a web interface to their catalogs, and they all seem to use IE
Not true. Carnegie Library of Pittsburgh has both IE and Netscape (4.5 I think). Our school library has netscape 4 or 6 installed too. But, they all look like sitting their out of some dumb ass' sympathy for Netscape that to provide a better browsing experience.
I'm talking about Firefox actually, last time I tried Mozilla I tried it, that was about 2 weeks ago.
OK those are really hideous, I can see why you think it's cluttered badly. One person has what looks like about 30-40 plugins on the plugin bar, another had their file/edit/etc. menus squished down with the search bar next to it. I'd post a screenshot of mine (which has the various toolbars laid out sanely) but I don't have anywhere to put it, certainly not anywhere that can withstand /.
I've already answered in a few other posts about things I don't like so I really don't feel like doing it again here but I do want to point out that what the AC said is quite true. Unless you're actively involved in the project no one listens. Generally whenever this comes up most Mozilla users don't even want to hear what's said, justification or not. I haven't officially tired saying anything to the Mozilla project but frankly from experiences in the past I fully expect to waste my time trying so I don't. Yes I realize that's a bit of a fatalistic attitude but it's come from experience. Sorry. (While I know it's changed hands since, part of this goes to all the years of being ignored when reporting bugs for Netscape. Kind of a once burned why try again thing.)
I guess I should summarize a bit on things that really turn me off to the Mozilla/Firefox UI. Text sizes on tabs was one, this was also a bit of an issue on other menus/toolbars but it wasn't as pronounced as on the tabs. With about 15-20 tabs up I couldn't see more than a single letter of text. Right now I have 18 tabs up and the default font/text size used in Maxthon lets me see from 5 - 9 characters. 5 on tabs with an icon from the site, 9 on those that don't. Tab management in Firefox at least was useless without Tab Browser extensions, and even with them it was quite broken. Sure it'd remember my groups but it wouldn't remember their order (something criticaly important for me). At best it would keep the first 3 tabs in order, the rest loaded at random. (For instance I had multiple windows to stories on /. up, it didn't even load them together, that'd have made at least some sense.) Also it wasn't always the first 3, it was sometimes just 1, sometimes 2. Closing the browser and reopening would result in a different order nearly every time. Also there are quite a few options I expected to be there that weren't. Installing the extra options extension helped but I think the existence of that extension already shows there's a lot of missing stuff. Also in the download I got at least the ad blocking settings were empty, not a single regular expression or URLs of known ad sites included. That was a huge turnoff.
BTW I do know now you can fix the text size on the tabs with the user css file, but that was one that was incredibly non-obvious. If Firefox would have looked at and used my default system fonts and sizes it would have been better than the default ones it used (although still not quite the right size.)
Actually we just had a case where we had to switch an entire department of users from Mozilla back to IE. We tried using Mozilla on a win2k terminal server and it was a failure. The footprint for each users mozilla session ranged from 25 to 60(!)mb. Way too much strain on the server. IE only cost us 15-20mb per session. We tried firefox but with w2k's 256 color limitation on terminal sessions, most toolbar icons showed as black squares rendering the software unusable.
We posted several questions/suggestions to the mozilla boards but they went unanswered. We've also had a similar problem with the lack of an msi for mozilla/thunderbird/firebird rollouts. Makes mass migrations near impossible. Mozilla does not seem to want to address large scale use such as terminal services and automated installs.
Avondale College http://www.avondale.edu.au/ has just migrated the web-based library catalogue (http://www.unilinc.edu.au/) machines to run Firefox. It's much better than IE in many ways - the UI has been customised to remove all non-nesescary buttons and a simple window manager has been used to make FireFox full screen. The XUL files make this nice and easy. IE had a problem with not loading pages, not following META refresh all the time and the entire windows system was unstable and insecure. The new firefox solution fixes everything.
www.nscp.org
National Society of Compliance Professionals, a nonprofit, membership organization dedicated to serving and supporting compliance officials in the securities industry.
We switched over after installing a version of Windows WITHOUT IE in it (plugging my process):
http://home.earthlink.net/~vorck/
(Sorry, too lazy to add HTML tags by hand)
I switched recently from MS IE to FireFox 9.0, and Thunderbird.
I have never seen a popup ad since, and spyware is almost non-existent.
I have also switched my wife's computer to FireFox.
I even switched at work as well, and briefly tested Outlook Web Access from Mozilla, and it worked fine.
At work, I found two other people who switched on their own about the same time I did, after all the exploits in MS IE were publicized. I am talking to a third person about switching his mom because of spyware problems.
I am also talking to another development group that are doing ActiveX plugins for MS IE for a client, and advising them of the pitfalls and the headaches they are getting the client into.
It is not all rosy though, there are issues:
Overall, I am happy with FireFox from the functionality, features, and usability points of view. Can't say the same about Thunderbird due to the bloat and slowing my machine to a crawl.
2bits.com, Inc: Drupal, WordPress, and LAMP performance tuning.
With Mozilla, productivity has nearly doubled! Employees report that due to reduced administrative downtime and popup windows, their fantasy teams are dominating, they're whacking twice as many moles, and gambling away entire paychecks before lunchtime every payday.
Thanks Mozilla!
it's easy to do. It's hard to believe just how relentlessly ignorant the average user is until you meet one face to face and tell them to click 'ok' instead of cancel to get to secure web sites.
Many users simply freeze up when prompted with an small changes to the UI. I've witnessed people lost when presented with Windows XP's classic style control panel (or the catagorical one, if they're used to classic). I think it's a combination of laziness and fear, coupled with the firm, marketing encouraged belief that, by God, this darn here compooter oughta be easy ta larn.
It bothers me, because people want so much from their computers, but put so little effort into them. It'd bother me less if people where willing to pay big bucks for the privilege of ignorance, but they also want their computers cheap and their support free.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
with a 256 color skin? If there isn't one already, it shouldn't be too hard to make. The MSI installer shouldn't be too hard to write either. Installing Firefox is basically just extracting the files and adding a few short cuts. Isn't the MSI api designed to make stuff like that easy?
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
How does a complaint about running SETI@home on Linux relate to this thread about Mozilla????
Except for its latest incarnation Firefox. I used to use netscape 3.0, and from then on, hated its bloatware develelopment into what became Netscape 7. I used IE during this time, which itself competed in the international Hall of Bloat competition, but was second to Netscape, and later to Mozilla.
Mozilla started out as a free Netscape, with ALL the browsers features. That was the big mistake. Noone can wait 15 seconds to load a page, or fork out $$$ for more memory to run a simple browser, IE stayed a little closer to the 'balance' during this time, making itself more palatable to the ex-Netscape crowd.
Then came along Opera. They understood the game, and sold exactly what the public needed. During these days of running highly bloated spyware-infested applications on ever-faster CPUs, opera was a refresher. Everyone took notice.
And now, the team whose products I hated for so long blew my mind.
First I installed it on windows. It worked. It took little memory and never froze. Thats not like Netscape or IE at all. Then I installed it in Linux. It just worked. I didnt even have to wrestle with the source code. It even allowed flash plugins designed for netscape/mozilla.
That gave me the idea I could possibly put my sun Ultra5 and RS/6000 to good use, both of which lacked a good browser for basic usability. Thats when I realized the Mozilla Foundation has put its house back in order. They've produced a fast efficient and secure browser that compiles and runs anywhere, and only uses the CPU cycles it needs (almost). Just what all software should be like.
It has taken almost a decade for the software producing world to realize Bloat=Bad=No Profits. N A free piece o code like firefox will set a trend, hopefully even with Microsoft, whose Win98 is still used around because its smaller and faster than WinXP.Now why was that so difficult?
"Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
Check out Byzantine OS for a good "browser only" Linux distribution.
It loads entirely into memory from the CD so that no hard drive is needed and the CD can be ejected after. It basically loads up bare Metacity and Mozilla suite with some modifications. I can see a library set up so that there's no hard drive in the computers and you check out a boot CD from the lab assistant with your library card. Get your library card back when you turn in the CD.
ByzantineOS is the future of the Internet Appliance. I set my parents up with Byzantine. They just hit the ON/OFF switch and it boots right into Mozilla. When they're done just hit the ON/OFF switch and there's no records or maintenance. When it gets updated I just reburn the CDRW.
Yeah, s'mee again!
FIX the bloody calendar. Make it work. At least make it so where emailed invites can easily be added to the recipient's calendar, instead of opening within a new browser window. Pretty simple stuff like that.
We can't switch because the calendar just sucks compared to what users have unfortunately become quite accustomed to in Microsoft Outlook.
They don't care about the mail - Mozilla works better. They care about the *Calendar* and the basic PIM stuff that Outlook has. We don't even use Exchange, but if another Outlook user sends a calendar request, Mozilla can't do squat with it.
So, they try to cling to Outlook.
Thunderbird/Firefox are not suitable/mature enough replacements, and besides, the Calendar will still suck because it's from the same codebase.
bring back the days of Netscape Calendar - or something. I'm telling you folks, cross platform calendaring applications may very well be the killer app for small businesses.
Right now, Mozilla isn't going too far where I work because of the lack of a serious calendaring application.
And that sucks, really. =/
When someone asks how to do something in Mozilla or Linux, the answer is often one of two things: "Why would you want to do that?", or it's something like what we have here: "hacking JavaScript and messing with lots of configs."
.js file?
.js file to activate a non-standard feature isn't any worse than having to edit some registry keys... (Which is, AFAIK, an almost daily activity for many Windows users.)
Well, had to do things like that once to get a FF extension written by some Windows user who hasn't heard of file permissions installed.
But can you name me just one feature available in IE (apart from rendering non-W3C compliant pages) that isn't available in Mozilla/FireFox without hacking a
IMHO, having to edit a
With Windows/IE, you can do almost anything and configure it almost completely (within its limits, of course) through the mouse and the menus.
You mean like in IE how you can configure it to be able to download more then 2 files at once? That's right you can use the mouse and menus to go through the registry to fix that right?
http://www.tweakxp.com/tweak764.aspx
or set the default download directory... oops no registry
http://www.tweakxp.com/tweak128.aspx
changing mailto: to load another mail program.. registry again
http://www.tweakxp.com/tweak734.aspx
You try to make it sound like its a big deal to install firefox, it's not any more complex then installing any other windows application you download off net. In the time it takes you to update IE to a stable state, you could already have downloaded, installed, and be adapted to firefox (that's because there basically is no adaption time).
Your rant seems aimed at Linux and not at Mozilla... because there's no reason for the average user (yes even the average slashdot user) to recompile or muck around with scripting (XPI) in firefox. Furthermore Mozilla and Linux have nothing to do with eachother, why you arbitrarily lumped them together is a little odd. The common denominator being that they both compete with Microsoft I guess. While you address only one side of your grouping it makes the argument sound akin to "I don't like cats and dogs... they leave droppings on the lawn, bark at night and they attack the mailman... and that is why I don't like cats and dogs"
Before Mozilla, my PC was getting 0wn3d three times a day. I kept getting virus after malware after popup. Every time I turned around, there were a dozen popups on my screen, multiplying by the second, and my home page kept changing to random porn sites.
Now that I have Mozilla, my computer is getting 0wn3d only once a day! New technology has come out to save me from my own gullible self, but the power of human stupidity prevails. Thanks Mozilla!
"No problem. I have the capacity to do infinite work so long as you don't mind that my quality approaches zero."-Dilbert
Remember these are public libraries so that means:
1. More of your tax dollars wasted.
2. More downtime of critical library systems. (there aint no card catalog anymore).
3. The potential for inter-library viruses.
4. The potential for keyloggers, etc.
At your house, feel free to use a browser you coded using VB, but at my library I expect the crap to work. If that means getting rid of MS, then so be it.
Perhaps one of our bigger enemies in "the browser wars," cloaking as the other guy.
So let's pretend that Mozilla/Firefox/Opera all together get 75% share, but 90% of them are cloaking as IE. To the folks gathering statistics, Mozilla/Firefox/Opera will still appear to have a paltry 6-7% market share, not worth messing with. IE will still appear to dominate.
The same argument is made about WINE, and was made about WinOS2.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
You can look it up on NewsForge, but it is in the waiting room of my medical practice.
For economy, safety and my convenience I chose Linux and for convenience and actually speed I chose Opera.
I'd be happy supporting Mozilla on it nowadays, or probably just the browser component when it reaches 1.0, and I see no reason to expect people would have trouble with it, they are not at present.
It gets used, lightly.
We've also switched to Firefox for our desk and office machines, and that has worked wonderfully. I've just had to delete all of the shortcuts to IE so that nobody uses it "accidentally". It's reduced my problems with spyware from a flood to a trickle.
If they want to improve the experience of Mozilla users then asking for failure stories is defintiely half of what they need to do. Find out what went wrong, what was missing, things like that.
Similarly they need to find out what is holding people off from switching - especially organisations. That measn they can find out what bits (that are under their control) they can work on.
There are always going to be some organisations who are unable to switch. And some of those reason are probably outside the scope of what the Mozilla Foundation can do.
Corporate websites and internal web applications that only work under IE are going to be a problem for as long as people write them. But there's also the other aspect. Education.
I don't mean as is "Educate Users that there are other things" here. I mean school and college courses. I've talked to course tutors, and what is important when teaching any computer skills to complete beginners is teaching them one way with one program. Although I personally prefer a more abstract method that isn't reliant on one platform, I can see the point. The problem is that currently teaching people "The Internet" often means IE.
Take the European Computer Driving License as just one example. The course material is Windows-centric - in fact it's XP-centric which does cause problems when 98 gives different results on certain tasks. The internet module seems to focus on IE for the web-browsing units. I think the tests have been written solely around IE, as are the course materials. (I've checked, and switching away from IE would need significantly different course material, and I'm not sure they even have any available)
This is a problem, though. As it means that many people who are "qualified" in using a computer are bing started out without a knowledge of anything other than IE. (Or Office, or Windows, for that matter) And unfortunately I think this is outside the scope of what a Mozilla Faoundation "switch" campaign could manage.
(I'd love to look back in 5 years, though, and find out I was dead wrong on that last point)
Tiggs
"120 chars should be enough for everyone..."
Checked back with each of the users after about a month to see how they went and my biggest surprise was those users who had the net at home had also switched over their home computers to mozilla as well (during instruction I showed them the mozilla web site and gave a brief bit of instruction on downloading and installing it).
I don't know why I was suprised (I know which browser I prefer to use) but it was just unexpected as they all had made the change at home.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen