Slashdot Mirror
Are You Ready for the SCO Blitz?
eibhear writes "Over on Groklaw, PJ has a theory that SCO is about to embark on an astroturfing campaign, based somewhat on Darl McBride's repeated comparison of the Slashdot and Groklaw styles of blogging at the recent SCOForum conference. PJ reckons: 'an astroturf campaign depends upon a non-moderated site, which explains McBride's sudden fondness for Slashdot.' '" The whole thing is really fishy, but the story is really worth reading just to see the weird battle occurring between SCO and Groklaw now.
SCO is cool and stuff!
When will SCO realize they're SOL?
Groklaw lies..
SCO are Great!
SCO are Great!
SCO are Great!
SCO are Great!
Last.fm - join the social music revolution
SCO is here and we are the rightful owners of Linux. So pay your licenses slashdotters or feel the wrath of Darl!
Oh crap I'm not signed in am I?
How could anyone accuse a reputable company like mine^h^h^h^h SCO of blatantly manipulating people like that.
This is obviously an attempt by the administrators of this website to discredit SCO and avoid paying for their legally extort^w required license.
--Kevin
SCO is an honourable company based upon a sound business model. The evil Linux hackers stole all of our..*cough* their code, and gave it away for free. Heathens!
-Dar...Trollkore?
I for one welcome our astroturfing overlords from Utah.
/., they still got jack shit in the "what is true" department.
(btw: wtf is in the water out there? SCO, Orrin Hatch, etc.)
i welcome them because be it on Groklaw or on
in fact - bring it on so that you can trial ballon every ounce of bullcrap here first, before putting it out in the press, so we can prep for it and practice beating it down here.
guns kill people like spoons make Rosie O'Donnell fat.
SCO in the house! What! What! I'll post again shortly, after I mail off my first invoice to Darl.
hehe. If I had a mod point, I would rate you as funny. You have done an extremely good job of a parody of an astroturf campaign.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
Which, thankfully isn't slashdot. Most readers probably don't know this, but the editors have full control over moderation, and can use their unlimited mod points to mod stuff over and over again. It doesn't show up publicly, but editors have been doing this for quite some time.
By doing this, they can trigger IP bans and therefore thwart these nefarious astroturfing campaigns. I trust the good editors here to use their unlimited powers justly, to keep things ontopic, and relevant.
When you focus equal attention on a multi-billion dollar company and a paralegal's weblog, you're probably screwed...
These guys can't afford grass seed, let alone astroturf
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
Remember, always two there are, a master and an apprentice...
Visit Tim's Journal, yes?
Simply auto-moderate all comments by UIDs > 700000 down to -1 ;-))
Code, Hardware, stuff like that.
It looks convincing.
No matter how good it looks, astroturf is NOT the real thing.
Which is why I assume that anyone saying anything good about my enemy is just my enemy in disguise.
they sell Astroturf by the square yard.
I'm sure OSDN and SCO will find a way to do business.
Laws are for people with no friends.
Always remember:
SCO is BAD.
Linux is GOOD.
The GPL is life.
Darl McBride is EVIL.
There's nothing new.
main(0)
what's next? push polling???
Enterprise Linux users would be called up by SCO employees and asked:
"Would you be more likely or less likely to install Linux as a Server OS if you knew Linux has copied source code from SCO?"
Consensus is good, but informed dictatorship is better
By not posting SCO stories unless there's actual news. Like a final judgement that actually means something.
/. story about it.
Everytime one of their lawyers cuts wind theres a
Don't give them the chance to astroturf. Simple enough. Just regurgitate more marketing text about the awesome power of the iPod or Tivo instead. It all goes to the same place.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
If you work for SCO, or are affiliated with SCO in any way, please reply to this message.
Failure to do so will result in (insert any patent or copyright threats here).
Feed the need: Digitaladdiction.net
I think SCO are really good, they make the best, err, Unex, er Unax, Unix I mean. Loonux isn't Unix 'cause its not the real thing.
Hey, can we move the autocue a bit nearer?
Using a free Unix rip off is like being a communist and me and my buddies at the steel mill don't like commies.
</Astroturf>
And he [McBride] predicted that "open blogs" like Slashdot will start to tell SCO's side of the story, and then the media will get to understand what is really going on.
Allow me to be the first to 'tell SCO's side of the story, then (Slashdot style, of course):
1. File lots of lawsuits
2. ???
3 Profit!
Sorry, that was just too good to miss :P
I hear there's rumors on the Slashdots
Would like to reaffirm my commitment to Linux. I am not now, nor have I ever been, a SCO spy disguised as a slashdot user. Nope. Not me. Definitely.
What is going on here? Has Groklaw suddenly decided to use accusations in an attempt to damage SCO's case instead of logical arguments. This isn't like PJ, and seems unprofessional.
McBride and slashdot are technically oxymorons, are they not?
That's like saying he likes having his tiny nuts bitten by badgers.
It has been said that the difference between gutsy and foolness is very thin. However, picking a fight with an active community of highly intelligent zealots who have a product that's years beyond your current product goes under the foolish cateygory.
Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
...
-1 Flaimbait
-2 Astroturf
Common tatic of wimps. Act like a bully; and if you get beat up with problems too difficulty (IBM, The Economy) find someone smaller than you and start beating on them.
(btw: wtf is in the water out there? SCO, Orrin Hatch, etc.)
/that/ long ago that Utah was at war with the United States of America (and no, we're not talking about SCO vs. IBM). On top of this, throw in the whole persecution of Mormons and you'll get a bit of cultural paranoia. I've worked with a lot of people of the Jewish faith and some will share that a few thousand years of persecution tends to orient the survivors towards paranoia (remember, the ones who weren't paranoid in Germany and didn't flee didn't get to stick around to pass along their genes).
A lot of it is seige mentality. Don't forget it wasn't
Granted the Mormons are a much younger microculture, but the defensiveness and inwardness is there. This often helps grow Mormon businesses, but tends to remove criticism and skepticism over false claims by a church member. Much of this defensiveness is still somewhat limited and not an embedded cultural practice - yet - but church leaders need to recognize this reactionary trend and correct or remove members that practice it.
Still, Mormons have done much to contribute to society. In fact, I'm perpetually amazed that so many don't condemn the SCO parasites and call them what they are as it goes so much against church teachings of open-paradigm systems. Remember, each new family that arrived in the valley was not regarded as another mouth to feed from a finite pie, but rather a new producer to make the pie bigger for everyone. If you have read "Seven Habits," "First Things First", or any other Steven Covey works, much of what you've read is a secular version of Mormonism applied to the business and personal domains. One of the legitimate heirs of the claim to "founding dot-com", Bill Washburn (executive director of the Commercial Internet Exchange, who fought against the NSFNET's plans for an Internet monopoly grant to the regional Bell operating companies and ANS, an IBM and MCI venture) and many other Internet leaders all hail from this open thinking, progressive faith (of which I am not, but have a great deal of respect for).
Open source shares much philosophically, so it is ironic that one of the greatest haters of open paradigm thought is Senator Hatch, and one of the greatest pump and dump anti-open paradigm companies (new SCO) both hail from Utah. Then again, we all have crooks we have to deal with in our respective faiths and communities from time to time.
Wake up Utah friends and throw these imposters out!
Microsoft Apologist Apologizes for Microsoft
Rob Enderle Announces Death of Bluetooth
and
Enderle's Ferrari Laptop
have appeared on Slashdot in the past.
This "technology analyst" is also the author of In Defense Of the Microsoft Monoculture and ranted and raved in an "informative" Eweek article about his Windows Ferrari theme and gushed happily about how his colleagues were impressed by it's cool shutdown and startup sounds.
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
I think Groklaw is the biggest thorn in SCO's side. The media has been pretty content to just print whatever random press release SCO throws at them without doing much (if any) verification at all. Groklaw has been consistenly documenting SCO's actions, court filings, and contradictory statements to the press, which makes it much harder for SCO to try their case in the media rather than a courtroom.
Groklaw is also something that SCO could never have forseen because it's never been done before. Hundreds of volunteers donating their time to get court procedings and transcribe them, research and debunk questionable claims to the press, and write thoughtful articles explaining the technology being used so those who don't have the background can understand what's going on. It's the power of the open source model applied to law. It's anti-FUD, and it's been the worst possible thing for SCO's media campaigns. Go PJ!
"Seek first to understand." - Socrates
As in politics, corporations do not like it when they fail to control the "message" and public discourse on the message. The fact that sites like Groklaw exist and flourish is one of the few things that gives me hope these days. Sure, Groklaw has a point-of-view. But it is also chock full of raw legal documentation of a lawsuit that is near and dear to us all. I don't need to read SCO's "spin" on their latest court filing. I can read it in all of its raw legalese and see directly that it's full of sh*t...
Keep your eyes to the sky.
... and who don't feel like googling in the middle of reading Slashdot posts:
astroturfing: n. The use of paid shills to create the impression of a popular movement, through means like letters to newspapers from soi-disant `concerned citizens', paid opinion pieces, and the formation of grass-roots lobbying groups that are actually funded by a PR group (astroturf is fake grass; hence the term). This term became common among hackers after it came to light in early 1998 that Microsoft had attempted to use such tactics to forestall the U.S. Department of Justice's antitrust action against the company. This backfired horribly, angering a number of state attorneys-general enough to induce them to go public with plans to join the Federal suit. It also set anybody defending Microsoft on the net for the accusation "You're just astroturfing!".
For all those who are wondering what "astroturfing" is -- like myself -- here is the Wikipedia definition quoted towards the bottom of the rather verbos Groklaw post:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing
-----
"Cogito Eggo Sum: I think, therefore, waffle."
And they have 6 figure revenues from licenses for something WE own.. ..shouldn't WE get all the money?!
Seriously, if SCO looses all thier court battles, all the money from SCOSource should go to OSDL or something.
They have $61 million in cash, no debt, and a market cap of $62 million. Think about that. If they just shut down and paid out their cash, stockholders would be right where they are now. The stock price is so low that it indicates the market assumes management will blow the cash doing something stupid. Given management's behavior over the last year, that's a reasonable assumption.
Yeah, I liked that part of "sudden fondness for Slashdot". As though getting endless free coverage from the obsessive Linux media hasn't been part of their plan from day one. I'm still not sure if people like the Slashdot editors simply don't realize they're being played like fish or if they just regard controversy as a win-win situation for both themselves and SCO.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
But in Slashdot's case, "Don't trust anybody with a Slashdot ID Number > 800000."
Why did I lurk so long before registering for a Slashdot account? I could have had a Slashdot ID of less than 100000.
Dear Mr Jail Brekr
We wish to inform you that it has come to our attention that large portions of your post have been determined to have originated from our copyrighted Post base. If you wish to continue posting, you must arrainge a license agreement with our legal department as soon as possible. Failure to do so can lead to legal action against both you, and any who reply to your post with any part of it quoted, thereby also infringing our copyright. For those users who have posted after the original offending post, but before the posting of this post, you will be given the option to obtain a Posting License for a very minimal and reasonable fee. Please contact our legal department as soon as possible.
Have a nice day (c)
SCO Legal
If I don't reply to this post, does it count as entrapment?
btw: wtf is in the water out there? SCO, Orrin Hatch, etc
Salt, yes. But more importantly: Sea Monkeys!
Yes, Utah's origional "not quite what it seems" business comes from the primary life form of the Great Salt Lake.
Remember the joy and excitement as you read the testimony on the back of your comic book about ordering and caring for your very own Sea Monkey family - no, kingdom! For only $24.95, you could be the god of a small world of miniture water people, kept in a tank in your bedroom.
How many of us raced our order down to the post office and waited each and every day for our little world to show up in the mail. The anticipation and expectation was tremendous. And could you ever forget the brutality of our crushed dreams when we discovered these little water people were... brine shrimp?!!! How could they do this to an idealistic child?
Yes, SCO has so much in common with its Sea Monkey marketing kin. The false claims. The hype. The dreams. The promise of owning the Linux world. Only to be dashed by painful realities. Worse yet, the commonalities in the executive qualities and mental dynamics of the two entities leaders is downright terrifying.
Oh, the horror of the Salt Lake's hollow promises!!!
All the lies they've told so far have been disbunked to great effect in public forum just like Slashdot, so this'll just end with them getting turfed-out.
I don't know the meaning of the word 'don't' - J
...was slow tonight. /. slashing Growlaw slashing /.
Bah Humbug!
Draal McBride, controller of the great SCO FUD Machine?
If your theory is different from practice, then your theory is wrong.
I'm a big fan of NFL Blitz, and when I saw this I thought there was something new for us to play.
When it comes to the Intellectual Property issues, Darl McBride is demonstrating genuine leadership. The SCOSource Licensing initiative takes the IT industry in the right direction by accelerating the successful adoption of properly licensed Linux installations, providing clarity and guidance on Copyrights, Trademarks, and Patents for USL Unix and derivative Systems, and providing incentives for individuals and small businesses to save and invest for future Unix Systems adoption.
Contrary to the FSF-sponsored communistic rhetoric attacking the USL business model, the proposal helps every business which utilizes Linux in their Enterprise, especially the Small Business Class. This year alone, 92 million Linux Users will receive an immediate benefit averaging $1,083! That's not pocket change for a family business struggling through uncertain economic times. Combined with the initiatives to help the Corporations protect their IP assets, this plan gets people back to work and helps every sector of our economy.
(blatantly ripped off Astroturf from the GOP)
Does anyone have any ideas on how SCO can hope to create the impression of grass-roots support for them? I don't see any feasible ways that someone could come along and post something which would make me, or any informed person see SCO as anything but a company exploiting IP and the legal process to extort companies out of money.
It's amazing to me that it's even legal for them to offer Linux licenses before establishing in a court that Linux in fact contains their IP. It's like selling the Brooklyn Bridge.. and having it be legal, because the buyer didn't bother to find out if you owned it.
"'Yrch!' said Legolas, falling into his own tongue."
Check it out!
Nasty isn't it?
Oh, and you must not forget all about SCO astroturfing... In Japan!
Those who complain about affect & effect on
She starts off with this self-referential, circular narative about "blows != violence", but then brings up "sending Enderle over the top" and then she mentions guns and how she really wants to keep Enderle calm, and then she comes full circle and no that's not what she means and suddenly she's *really* talking about "blowhards" and "step-by-step".
Why bother with the entire prologue, except that it makes good "press" when written by someone who's now a "journalist".
And she ends up with a long monologue about how poor Groklaw (center of the known universe) is about to be astroturfed (the latest "attack!" "attack!") by that dreadful SCO.
All this angst really comes from the ongoing facts that:
So, Pamela's got issues, and a lot of people have issues with Pamela, but to hear her tell it it's all Enderle's and McBride's and SCO's fault.
Pamela's backed herself into a corner. Period.
As for SCO itself, fuck 'em.
SCO clearly isn't going to get anything past anyone here, and anyone (Pamela included..) who thinks that /. is going to be fooled by any such BS from SCO is smoking something I don't want any part of...
Finally, no, I'm not an SCO astroturfer:
http://www.finchhaven.com/TSCOG/index.html
I've done my work in the trenches; have you?
t_t_b
I'm on PJ's "enemies" list! Are you?
cheerfully accepts donations. PJ has done lots of hard work. Dig deep folks!
I don't know if she's noticed but Slashdot is moderated. And also, again I'm not sure if she's worked it out - SCO aren't popular around here. So an astroturfing campaign is likely to be moderated to oblivion. (Well, oblivion is a bit harsh. Actually one post will be modded down, then the subnet IP ban will kick in, preventing any other posts, and also preventing the entire eastern seaboard of the USA from making anonymous posts as collatoral damage. Nice one CT.)
A more likely motivation for McBride's praise of Slashdot is that it was an attempt to slime Groklaws system of deleting posts. Trying to suggest some suppression of legitimate viewpoints. In other words, more FUD.Here be post deleters.
I always figured McBride had a screw loose somewhere, after all he is probably headed for what is technically known as a federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison, but to actually praise Slashdot? If I were an investor I'd be breaking into a cold sweat. I wonder if he also eats his own excrement now, and hums tunelessly to himself while rocking back and forth.
Meine Schwester ist sehr, sehr reizvoll - Nietzsche
And just exactly why do you think that their astroturfing campaign would be anything more than a source of great amusement for us? There are no good no philosophical or moral (and probably no legal) reasons for anyone to take SCO seriously, and anyone here who tries will either be modded funny or flamebait, depending on how thick they layer on the bullshit.
In the end, SCO realize that BS only works on real grass.
If you are honest with yourself. If you think what you do, sobeit. Nick
And Darl in the back said, "Everyone attack!" and it turned in to a slashdot blitz...slashdot blitz...
// Agent Green (Ian / IU7 / KB1JQO)
// IEEE 802.3: All 10base Are Belong To Us
How exactly do you play a fish?
And for goodness' sake, what the hell are slashdot personals? If've been wondering for a long time, everytime you post.
Community-driven news sites like Groklaw and Slashdot are where a lot of his FUD gets shredded.
I suspect he's trying to drive a wedge between them, to get them to focus and fight each other. He probably doesn't realize that, in terms of a registered user base and commonality of views, they're tied together pretty tight.
tasks(723) drafts(105) languages(484) examples(29106)
a) If Darl Eats beans
b) If Darl would like to see a movie staring George Wendt
c) If Darl would like to see George Wendt Eating Beans in a movie.
Obscure references are the best
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
What could they possibly hope to attain by astroturfing? I mean, the case is unwinnable, they have no industry esteem left. The only thing they could try to do is take attention off of...
Ooo - You're good.
who are those slashdot people? they swept over like Mongol-Tartars.
All your astroturf are belong to SCO!
I really can't believe even SCO would be stupid enough to astroturf here. More likely, it will be on some business related websites like Forbes or fastcompany, where there are rich but technologically unaware people to be fooled.
-aiabx
Just this guy, you know?
After all, SCO is just trying to make a decent living. Aren't we all? Those evil Free Software evildoers are the ones who are causing harm, imagine giving away for free important stuff that took years to develop at SCO: A reliable, robust operating system. /.
SCO is righteous, you are evil,
Shame on you!
Garl Mc Tribe
I think that what SCO Legal meant was that most of your post contained words, which are a copyright violation of the /usr/dict/words file, which is part of Linux, which SCO owns.
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
would it be interesting for lots of people with an interest in the SCO v. Linux matter to individually purchase single shares of SCOX?
Market cap is $62M, shares at $4 and change, that's about 15M shares outstanding... per Yahoo, over 75% of the shares are tied up in big holders, so individuals could not attain a controlling interest (http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mh?s=SCOX)
but... being an owner of even one share of stock makes the company accountable to the shareholder, with the attendant expense of keeping track of the shareholder, and responding via shareholder relations to shareholders' inquiries.
Shareholders also have the right to nominate directors at the 2005 annual meeting, and to introduce shareholder resolutions to be considered at the annual meeting. Note that as of the 2004 annual meeting, the next meeting was expected to happen around April 19, 2005, and that such proposals are due WELL in advance (4 months anyway)
From SCO: 2004 Proxy statement, including 2005 shareholder meeting info
No proposals have been submitted by stockholders of the Company for consideration at the Annual Meeting. It is anticipated that the next annual meeting of stockholders will be held on or about April19, 2005. Stockholders may present proposals for inclusion in the proxy statement to be mailed in connection with the 2005 annual meeting of stockholders of the Company, provided such proposals are received by the Company in writing no later than November6, 2004 and are otherwise in compliance with Securities and Exchange Commission regulations regarding the inclusion of stockholder proposals in company-sponsored proxy materials.
In addition, the Company's Bylaws permit stockholders to nominate directors at the annual meeting by providing advance written notice to the Company. In order to make a director nomination at a stockholder meeting, a stockholder must notify the Company not fewer than 120days in advance of any meeting of stockholders called for the election of directors. Similarly, the Company's Bylaws permit stockholders to cause other business to be conducted at any meeting of stockholders by providing advance written notice to the Company. In order for such business to be conducted at a stockholder meeting, a stockholder must notify the Company not fewer than 120days in advance of the meeting of stockholders. Assuming the date of next year's annual meeting is April19, 2005, any notice required under the Bylaws as described in this paragraph must be received by the Company no later than December20, 2004 in order to be timely for next year's annual meeting. In addition, the notice must meet all other requirements contained in the Company's Bylaws.
A stockholder may contact the Corporate Secretary of the Company at its headquarters for a copy of the relevant Bylaw provisions regarding the requirements for making stockholder proposals and nominating director candidate
Caveats as follows:
The author is not an investment advisor, attorney, or accountant. He's not even wholly qualified to write the letters "SCOX" in a public place. Investing carries risks of all kinds. Owning shares of stock may create tax liabilities and reporting overhead that doesn't exist if you don't own shares of stock. Consult someone who knows what the hell they are talking about before doing anything this stupid.
If SCO or Microsoft (you _know_ they have shills here too) wants to pay me $$$$ to push their agenda, I'll consider the offer.
The "cue the foo posts in 3, 2, 1..." posts will commence with no subsequent foo posts in 3, 2, 1...
Don't forget, this is the man who predicted Apple would switch over to all Intel processors before the end of 2003, and of course, that the iTunes Music Store would never fly with Windows users, because it was arriving after hugely successful Windows music stores like BuyMusic.com.
If Microsoft shills can regularly AstroTurf here, then SCO should be allowed equal opportunity to do the same.
Now imagine this argument applied to: Hey, if they can pollute the air and water, then we deserve an equal opportunity to do so!
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
Ahhh.... SCO licenses...
The toilet paper of choice for those who don't find $20 bills ostentatious enough for the task.
Do they come in two-ply?
-- I could tell right away that she was impressed with my HUGE Slashdot Karma.
It's kind of like a honeypot for astroturfers. I stopped reading SCO stories around when the stock dropped below $5. They are so doomed. Let the astroturfers turf away in these stories the rest of us can ignore.
Maybe SCO will hire the same astro-turfers that tried to pump up the Nokia N-gauge. I heard they rock.
One bewildered passerby speculated that the problems origin could be a flaw in the /code not being able to compensate for the potential risk of a ./er not knowing who Chewbacca is, or how to spell his name.
In response to these questions a man claiming to be a senior naval official made the following statement: "It isn't our fault that ./ died today, six years ago even the improbability drive could not have calculated the odds of a "geek" not knowing EVERYTHING about Star Wars. More confusing yet was absence of a follow-up post apologizing to Peter Mayhew and George Lucas... inconceivable!"
I think sco is cool and my brother he is SUCK A GEEK. He put LINUX on his computer and i can't even get in, i have to log in but I can't, so how am i supposed to use aim with that? I bet SCOW will let me use aim to talk to my friends and stuff like that. I vet Clay Aiken would bever use linux. Also he is NOT GAY! Stop saying he is GATY! Love, Ashley
It's more than just coincidence that SCO and Hatch seem to have similar agendas. Hatch's son is actually SCO's lead attorney in the state courts.
This is pretty far offtopic, but this calls for a response:
the Commercial Internet Exchange, who fought against the NSFNET's plans for an Internet monopoly grant to the regional Bell operating companies and ANS, an IBM and MCI venture
The part of my brain this history is stored in hasn't been accessed for a while, but suffice it to say that the above is only one, fairly debatable, perspective on Internet history.
Here's a half-decent capsule history of the NSFNET which provides a different (more accurate, from my keyhole) spin. The tag line of the article is "The National Science Foundation's enlightened management of the NSFNET facilitated the Internet's first period of explosive public growth." Which is pretty accurate as happy-talk goes.
The NSFNET was a good thing. The CIX was (in retrospect) a good thing. Figuring out how to move the Internet from being largely taxpayer-funded to being primarily commercial was a good thing. It certainly wasn't painless or without friction, but it was driven mostly by people of good will, not smoke-filled rooms where evil government bureaucrats were plotting to grant monopolies to their bell-head cronies.
The CIX, at the outset, wasn't a "fight against a monopoly". It was a way for folks to move commercial traffic between their networks without making inappropriate use of the taxpayer-funded NSFNET.
i.e., if he we were smart & understood /.
He's obviously aware Slashdot is not a moderated resource and knows it would lose its value if it were to change. Consider what would happen if people decide to "infiltrate" and gradually start to post information which isn't necessarily blatant advertising as that would be too obvious. But little-by-little...
Anyway, you get the picture.
Now, I know everyone's going to jump on that and claim noone could get away with it, but I'm just pointing out that if he really wanted to use SlashDot for a campaign of some type, that's about the only way he could do it. If it became obvious, Anonymous or not, we know they'd be mod'ed down, and if they used a userid, it'd almost become policy for anyone who had points to knock them down pretty hard to the point of where they wouldn't be seen by anyone unless they changed their filters to -1:: or 0::. So then it becomes a mission of them creating new names every time they're discovered.
religion is anything but "open thinking"
I should have chosen my words more carefully! I have little to no reference points on how progressive the church is on dress codes, social rules, etc. (though I can tell you there was a pretty decent microbrewery in SLC, as well as no shortage of good coffee loaded with caffeine, so I think it depends on who you're talking with per that whole side).
And any time you start talking about how free or liberal one is in their thinking, you're setting yourself up for a futile argument. My family comes from Amish country in Ohio and those folks are some of the most free people in some respects, while extremely restricted in others. I think a lot has to deal with priorities as to where you place the structure and restriction in your life.
So please don't take my limited outsider perspective to be any statement on church freedoms. I'll go back to my small country church and keep my trap shut!
*scoove*
Slashdot is far from un-moderated, quite the reverse. Take a look at my signature!
Is SCO really all that bad? I mean, they're just some hardworking company...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!
:)
Sorry, Darl...here's your money back, I just couldn't pull it off with a straight face.
For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
In the case of Darl McBride i bet that should be an oxymormon
The 2003 third quarter results were posted on September 15, 2003.
Here's the last quarterlies.
Maybe that's what the recent increase in SCO astroturfing is in anticipation of. Perhaps they will attempt to drive up stock prices just ONE MORE TIME before they release the data showing they are hemmoraging money.
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
Hmmm sounds like Darl has started the astroturfing early this season. :)
This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
Agreed. In the past 3 days, we've seen 3 SCO stories.
First: "Novell Poised To Strike On Slander Of Title Claim"
The most newsworthy of the bunch. Novell files for dismissal with prejudice. With some good arguments. But that doesn't matter. What matters is what the judge thinks. Wait for the ruling instead.
Second: "SCO Linux Licenses Could Increase In Price"
That's not news. SCO has been repeating this "Better buy now, prices will rise reeeaaal sooon" mantra for a year now.
Third: This one. "SCO might start astroturfing"
That's not news either. There can be no doubt SCO is out to slander Linux and Open Source and just about everybody who doesn't give them money*. But until an actual, obvious campaign starts. It's not news, it's a rumor.
*Ironic really, considering that open source does give them money. UnixWare is full of OSS.
To paraphrase Kelly Preston: SCO Rocks!!!
The editors don't give a shit if they're getting played. They know every SCO article generates thousands of page hits and hundreds of posts of discussion from loyal Slashdotters, which means more advertising revenue for OSDN.
That's right. Slashdot is a corporate-owned site. That very fact when placed alongside the various philosophies Slashdot typically espouses is very amusing and contradictory. It is the users here who are getting played, every time they excitedly click "Read more" on an SCO article so they can post their knee-jerk response and see another ad in the process, they add another hit to the site logs for Rob Malda to report back to OSDN, so they can use them when shopping for more advertisers. This site is a business now making money off a lot of gullible people. Why should they care if they're getting played by SCO's media schemes?
Note--if you disagree, fine, but reply and tell me. Don't mod me down for it.
Of course, the thing that will really convince the PHBs at the office are the new SCO posters I saw at the computer store today. You can't miss them - they all have catchy slogans, like:
(credits to Terry Gilliam's Brazil - but I'm sure SCO and Mr. Boies will discover some Copyright to the quotes in a formerly undisclosed AT&T memo)
SCO seems to have this fondness of picking on those that can thoroughly kick it's ass. but then again, it's fights are obviously chosen by others who are too chickenshit to fight themselves.
Darl's is obviously a puppet, aparently this Enderle creep is too. Amazing what can be found under rocks if you are up to scraping away enough slime.
yep, MS found a couple of real specimens in these two. funny, I recently sent a very similar specimen to my septic tank. MS may want to use some soap when they're done.
gee, maybe SCO can print grassroots articles with photos of "real people" that totally agree with their bullshit story...photos that will be immediately found in common clip art libraries. MS has set a great example for such bozo tactics.
the trailer park has certainly gone downhill since Darl & company moved in. but nothing an IBM tornado can't clean up.
....accumulating slashdot logins by the scads over the past year, almost like script kiddies with zombie machines. ...in fact .... looks around, lowers voice..... "we don't know who we can trust now...it could be anybody!"
Dear SCOsupporter and potential stock holder,
s /
As you know, SCO achieved SCOsource revenue last quarter of approximately $11K.
While this may seem in a decline as compared to previous quarters when we recorded millions of SCOsource revenue from Sun and Microsoft. Those millions from Sun and Microsoft, were in fact for other Unix licenses, and not SCO Linux IP licenses.
Thus $11k in fact represents a record for SCO: 16 Linux IP licenses sold in a single quarter.
Furthermore, as we believe there 2.4 million servers running Linux, this gives us great potential for the future revenue. We have a market of potentially 2,399,984 servers remaining!
If we sell each of those users a license at $699, we will achieve revenue of $1.67bn!
However, do not let that limit your vision! As our friends at CNET and CRN recently recommended, we should raise our Linux IP license price. Just imagine how much revenue we'd generate if our price was $699,000 per Linux server.
In short, SCO is great, please buy our stock! Now!
Yours sincerely
Bought Young
SCO CFO
P.S.
I'd appreciate if nobody read this page:
http://www3.scofacts.org/~alpetrof/scofact
I accuse myself of the following crimes:
I have seduced computer users of both sexes.
I have been to the porn sites.
I deliberately contracted the Sasser worm in order to spread the worm to my wive and other computer users.
Together with other agents I have counterfeited web certificates, hacked commercial websites, added copyrighted code to the linux kernal, and coordinated denial of service attacks against SCO by means of PGP encrypted emails.
I stand here a victim of the influence of Linus Torvalds, guilty on all counts.
I'm glad I was caught.
I was mentally deranged.
Now I am cured.
I ask only for you to accept my love of Darl McBride.
I ask only to be shot while my computer is still clean of copyright infringed software.
Groklaw is still a great source of news about SCO shennanigans, etc., so long as you take the sometimes hyperbolic editorializing with a grain of salt.
I stopped reading the comments after I had a mildly critical comment deleted. I realized that this was a group that wasn't willing to enngage in self-criticism, and as such, was not a group to which I wanted to belonng. And it's a pity, because amongst the self-congratuulatory crap, there are generally pretty good posts from lawyers, programmers, and others that are just good thinkers.
At the time my post was deleted, I was told by PJ that public criticism was unwelcome, that as Groklaw was not a public forum, but her own private thing, she could do as she saw fit. So, whatever. I took the option open to me, and stopped reading posts and psoting. I still read the news there, as they still have the best coverage, and the best analysis (when you ignore the strident editorializing).
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
Considering that M$ has recently started doing this on Slashdot, I don't see why SCO wouldn't be taken lessons from them. Notice, how anybody who criticises M$, now gets a barage of Anonymous Cowards trying to drown him out?
*If that is the case.
Seeing as how they have had a year to prove their case by revealing just a tiny bit of real infringing code (not the erno crap), I don't believe a word coming from the SCO camp. It would take more than a management change to make me want to give them a listen. They'd have to put their cards on the table, something they should have done long ago. The only reason they haven't is that they're holding nothing. Not even a busted flush or an unfilled inside straight. They got nothing. What you are calling a catch 22 is really just a bluff that didn't and could never have worked.
But meanwhile, while we've all been distracted by the poker game, someone has been robbing the bank. And while that was going on, the big cattle baron has been trying to buy up all the water rights and scare other ranchers into only using proprietary software.
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
I'd say that the only way this would work is if the SCO people could manufacture a loyal userbase,
:::: keys) and other winners.
Ha! Customers are sooooo 1990s. You know, all that quality improvement mumbo jumbo crap. Hell, I'd bet you're one of those "customer is always right" freaks too.
The progressive business model is definitely anti-customer. We learned this from the dot-com experience. You see, marketers put up perfectly brilliant companies, distribution channels and products. Think of winners like Pets.com (come on, anyone who doesn't love the Sockpuppet is a Nazi and outta be insulted by a pack of PETA freaks), Flooz.com (as if anyone could not buy something with Whoopi as a spokesperson!), DigitalConvergence (home of the CueCat and a huge excess of keyboards with way too many
These companies were introduced to consumerspace and what happened? Customers didn't buy like they were supposed to. Losers! Countless VC firms realized that customers were the weak link in the chain and when a VC makes a radical discovery like this, the business world listens. So customers were out.
Naturally, employees became sorta lame too and nearly a million telco employees had to be thrown out the window. But this has much more to do with needing good storage space for all the products that didn't get sold than anything else. No hard feelings techies - if we could have stored all that unsold junk in India, we would have. It was just easier to move your jobs
While we're modding down the SCO propaganda, maybe we should mod up the anonymous trolls on the SCO stories.
Dear SCO Corporation;
It has come to our attention that you have been using the term "Astroturf" in deliberate violation of our trademarks, and in ways which will dilute the value of the trademark.
Astroturf(R) is not merely an artifical sod replacement. It is a next generation fiber surface with a look similar to grass and low mainenance requirements. Since 1985, we have been manufacturing such high-quality products and have been heavily investing in our brand. Please immediately cease and disist from using our trademarks in your marketing campaigns.
Sincerely,
Astroturf, Inc. www.astroturf.com
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
"PJ has a theory that SCO is about to embark on an astroturfing campaign"
I hate to poke fun at Pj, but with the Astroturding campain we have heard from the likes of Didio, Endearlie and the other MS shills and "Brown Trollings" in book and newsprint form.
Do you think there might be an Astroturf campain going on?
PJ where have you been?
You really spend too much time keeping up Groklaw.
The Astroturf is way past knee high!
The turfmaster are finding the real grassroots are growing so fast they are scared, real grass acually grows. (In Florida it grows real fast this time of year)
The Microsoft/SCO Astroturfing has been going one for months!
I am the unwilling control for my Origin.
A bit of wit and a sprinkle of convensional wisdom can brand even a cult as progressive compared to the dusty scriptures of the "older" religions
Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
"Groklaw turned into this orgy of groupthink with respect to issues of Linux technical and usability merit."
Really? Every time I go there, it's entirely about the law and how stupid SCO is. I don't think I've ever read anything about "Linux usability" there. Maybe I didn't look hard enough, since I don't read *every* post.
"Let's not turn Slashdot into that."
Not likely. Too many Windows trolls post here. Especially the ones that act like they really like Linux, "it's just that Linux [fill in the blanks about usability, installs, and other ruminant evacuation.]" Sorry, these morons fool no one.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
But too-fly fer shure.
Infuriate left and right
I am Kwame Rufatata from the SCO Group in the wonderful lake-strewn state of Utah.
I am writing to tell you that I have a problem which you can help me solve. It seems that we have received a large sum of money from an unnamed company in the wonderful lake-strewn state of Washington that we do not wish to pay the exorbitant taxes of the government on.
So, we would like to transfer these funds to an account outside the jurisdiction of the government. To do this, we need someone who is prepared to use their account to transfer our funds in order to conceal their point of origin.
If you will please give us your bank account number, we will transfer our funds through your account to an unnamed institution in the wonderful lake-strewn country of Switzerland. In return for this service, we will gratefully transfer you to a service fee of 10% of the funds transferred through your account. This could amount to as much as FIVE MILLION DOLLARS!
Please respond to my email as soon as possible, because our investors may force us to pay out these funds due to our falling stock price.
Sincerely,
Darl^H^H^H^HKwame Rufatata
SCO Group
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
Everyone already understands what's going on. SCO, the RIAA, the MPAA, and a number of other old businesses are led by executive management who just don't get the new service-based models, can't adapt, and just can't accept that if they don't adapt, their business is dead.
So instead they try to plead, whine, and use barratry to protect their pathetic, outdated business models.
What they forget is the problem is the socio-economic market shifts are to blame, not their competitors. If it weren't their "enemies" such as Linux, it would be BSD or some other "product."
Ah well, at this point maybe Darl could at least interest some execs in the media industry. After all, Darl's and SCO's viewpoints on "reality" are about as honest and truthful as "Survivor" or "Big Brother".
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
or just assblowturfing. I know what it smells like from here.
Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
"Really? Every time I go there, it's entirely about the law and how stupid SCO is. I don't think I've ever read anything about "Linux usability" there. Maybe I didn't look hard enough, since I don't read *every* post."
One of the other replies to my post said it better. They're not willing to engage in self-criticism. Thus, when anything at all gets said about Linux itself, it's positive.
Perhaps things have changed. I haven't read Groklaw (except for the odd linked article) for almost a year.
It was sufficiently annoying that I'm not going to be giving it another shot.
"Not likely. Too many Windows trolls post here. Especially the ones that act like they really like Linux, "it's just that Linux [fill in the blanks about usability, installs, and other ruminant evacuation.]" Sorry, these morons fool no one."
See, this is the attitude I'm talking about. Your attitude is that these criticisms are necessarily false. Anyone who disagrees must be a troll. They must have an agenda.
I rarely criticize things I don't care about.
Isn't this the corporate equivalent of tying a pork chop around the neck, so the family dog will play with them...
Genda
Dear Astroturf Corporation:
Pursuant to your recent letter and acknowledgment of SCO's Federal Copyright ("Astroturf"), and reference to an alleged registered trademark, I would advise you to review with counsel the status of intellectual property law with respect to the precedence of copyright.
As disclosed in the SCO Federal Copyright statement, SCO has the exclusive rights to all versions, derivitives and combinations of the mark, Astroturf. As you may be aware from our ongoing litigation with respect to UNIX Copyrights, it should be clear that a Copyright takes precedence over Trademarks and Patents. It is with this foundation that SCO has pursued the protection of its mark against OSG trademarks and IBM patents.
We would be pleased to offer you an opportunity to license the use of the mark for a minimal fee of $105,000 (please note that the recording of this settlement will be remarked as "SCO UNIX LICENSE PURCHASE" in all communications and disclosures for reasons unnecessary to this discourse).
Should you have questions, please contact my office.
Sincerely,
S. Spoon Hatch
Chief Counsel
PJ does censor most discussions about her employer, OSRM. I speak from personal experience, and one who thinks Darl and SCO should be squashed like the cockroaches they are.
If you want a rational discussion of software liability insurance, you won't find it on Groklaw.
For anything other than OSRM, you should stay with Groklaw.
(Is this astroturfing?)
The headquarters of the Mormon church and the state legislature are on the same hill next to each other in SLC.
You'd have to be pretty stupid not to understand the symbolism there.
It reminds me why I'm glad we have as much church/state separation the rest of the US. Mormons individually are great people. In a pack, they scare the *hell* out of me.
I still have a copy of Caldera OpenLinux Lite lying around on a CD somewhere. It was one of my first distros and very nice.
I also used to use Caldera OpenDOS, aka DrDOS. Another good product. Caldera did have some nice products before they became litigious bastards.
You make the mistake of thinking you can educate the fundamental stupidity out of people. You can't.
So Darl you want to take on /. and Groklaw? Well....?
Ok,...
BRING IT - BITCH.
P.S. This guy has an uncanny knack for finding the most far fetched situations in which he undoubtedly gets soundly trounced... Often using his own words against him. Kinda like the troops throwing their rifle clips at the enemy and then wondering why the enemy continues to shoot at them and never seems to run out of ammo.
Talk about clueless. Let the games begin. Reminds me of fragging noobs online - it's just not that much of a challenge. Oh well, it's his funeral.
The government which is strong enough to protect you from everything is strong enough to take everything from you.
Muh ha, I have my rant prewritten!
Articles about Fedora and Redhat is the only astroturfing around these parts.
http://buck.com/call/KG6NVN
Not quite.
/. - and opinions are the stock in trade here.
It's just that statistically speaking, most of the anti-Linux comments I've read are not only false, they are known by the speaker to be false. This is detectable because the speaker invariably has nothing specific to say to prove his point, but relies on generalities.
If somebody presents a specific problem with Linux, such as that Linux has trouble getting drivers written for it by hardware manufacturers, nobody can really deny this is true. OTOH, the issue is how bad is this problem overall. If you assume it is a show-stopper, without considering other factors such as the type of user you're referring to or the effect of pre-installation, etc., you're simply wrong and if you then IGNORE these other factors, you become a troll.
The trolls are easily detectable because they make bullshit arguments such as that Linux is not "usable", or that Linux is not "learnable", or other general statements which simply aren't true regardless of the type of user. I know they aren't true because I had to learn Windows and Linux from scratch over the last three years and I see no difference between them in that regard.
I also see no evidence for the usual pro-Windows assertion that Windows is more "intuitive". What I have discovered is that NEITHER OS is particularly "intuitive". So anyone who asserts this as a certainty is necessarily a Windows troll with an agenda (or simply a moron - I suppose we must distinguish between morons and trolls, but I really get tired of trying to bother, especially since it doesn't seem to take much for a Windows moron to turn into a Windows troll - and Windows trolls are by definition morons.)
My standard statement remains true:
1) Windows is CRAP.
2) Linux is ALSO CRAP (whether it is EQUALLY crap is another issue - given the difficulty of writing a virus for it and its renowned stability, I think not.)
3) Linux is FREE crap.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that Linux wins that comparison. It does take a Windows troll to state that statement one is not true, statement two is true, and then ignore statement three.
If you do that, you are either a moron or a troll - or both. You're a moron if you actually believe that stuff, and you're a moron and a troll if you knowingly present statement two while deliberately ignoring statements one and three.
The bottom line: there are people who claim to like Linux except for [insert defect here] but who are KNOWINGLY lying about their like for Linux. That's the people I was referring to specifically.
And like I said, they're usually easy to detect simply by the fact that they telegraph their dislike BY saying "I like Linux but..." That's an OLD liar's game that fools no one - but liars always seem to need to continue using it.
The real bottom line: who cares? If Linux can't compete, IT WON'T. If it can, IT WILL. A third option is Linux AND Windows AND the Mac will be replaced by something else in ten or twenty years.
So anybody's opinion isn't worth the bandwidth to transmit it.
But this is
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
So, now if someone like me expresses the opinion (say on Slashdot) that PJ had been (and still is) doing a good job reporting and analyzing the SCO cases, but has flubbed miserably since she's tried to be an "pundit", then there's an obvious explanation: I must be a SCO astroturfer! Critical comments about PJ, clearly, can never have any merit whatsoever.
In fact, by writing this very post, I must be a SCO astroturfer right now! Whoda thunkit?
Always keep a sapphire in your mind
I like linux but... (ducking now, you may stone when ready)
Sick of WoW? Try the thinking man's MMORPG: EVE Online
The Trolls make heaps of noise as it is, SCO could never afford to pay enough shills to get to that level of noise anyway, and they'd need heeps more noise to break the moderation system.
in my life God comes first.... but Linux is pretty high after that
Francis Smit
I hope SCO won't claim copyright on 'Astroturfing' as there is a prior art
The long lost song is your own heartbeat.
You can look up works with Firefox with the right mouse button... if you highlight a word, then click 'search web for ' it will open a new tab with the search results... I've not been using it, but its pretty useful..
cheers
The Official Steve Ballmer Webpage
someone will ask you, "What did you do in the Open Source Wars, Granpa?"
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
Frankly, the signal-to-noise ratio here sucks.
-Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither. -Ben Franklin
They're not willing to engage in self-criticism. Thus, when anything at all gets said about Linux itself, it's positive.
---->
Perchance because posts about Linux itself are offtopic in most Groklaw articles? Thus the only reason to post them in most would be to troll.
As for criticism, PJ notes the IBM mistakes as well as the SCO ones--just today we have IBM filing errata because of a misquote of one of their declarations in one of thier filings. PJ has also owned up to any mistakes made or errata from her own, previous articles. Of course, I grant that there simply haven't been that many to own up to--most are caught early.
I guess you really have been away for a long time.
"My standard statement remains true:
1) Windows is CRAP.
2) Linux is ALSO CRAP (whether it is EQUALLY crap is another issue - given the difficulty of writing a virus for it and its renowned stability, I think not.)
3) Linux is FREE crap."
What bugged me was people asserting that it wasn't crap. As in, no one who is making an honest attempt to use Linux can have problems. It's possible they were responding to trolls, but they were just as wrong as trolls, and just as annoying.
I rarely criticize things I don't care about.
Well, some people view Linux as having "problems", but not being "crap".
In my view, Linux (and Windows) are crap because they are both based on primitive windowing/mouse and other "low" technology. I think both of them could be much better designed. And no, I don't think having reversible windows or writing on the edges of windows or storing files in XML form is a significant improvement.
However, while Linux has "problems", they are only significant to the more naive user base. They are nothing that some training and some willingness on the part of the user to learn something new couldn't fix. In other words, these "problems" are social, not technological (except in the sense that ALL such "problems" are technological as per my previous paragraph.)
Most of Linux "problems" are merely the result of being different from Windows and the lack of willingness of people to learn something new. Anybody who ignores this is obviously a troll.
As far as the overall design of Linux, obviously it is superior to Windows where it counts - in security and reliability. Anybody who ignores that is obviously a troll. While the current incarnation of Windows (2000 and XP)is clearly superior in reliability to its previous incarnations (9x), it's still nothing to write home about. I had 2000 installed for less than two months, and a third party program ruined the Registry, and then after that reinstall, 2000 hosed the Registry all by its lonesone for no discernable reason, requiring another reinstall.
As for security, forget about it. Since at least 1997, Gates has been promising Windows will be secure "next time".
Which is why people who complain about Linux "problems" such as "usability" are merely trolls.
Yes, there are Linux trolls. But if for no other reason than that there are fewer Linux users, there are a hell of a lot less Linux trolls than Windows trolls. Of course, if you judge that by visiting Linux newsgroups, you might get a different impression.
Slashdot STARTED as a Linux/OSS promoting system. So what do you expect? Bill Gates to be welcomed here? To suggest that is to be a troll on the face of it.
Groklaw is the same - a promoter of OSS (although from the standpoint of legal issues, not technology). Do you expect everybody to welcome Windows trolls?
If you have an HONEST appraisal of Linux problems, which happens to be wrong partially or completely, that's one thing. To just sling uncritical generalities about "usability" is being a troll.
I can be - and have been - a Linux troll at times, just to bug the Windows trolls. That comes under the heading of "fun", not serious. I suppose some people I think are Windows trolls do the same thing. So maybe both sides should just shut up and let the market decide.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
I'm not advocating Windows over Linux. You'd have to pay me to use Windows (my company does, I'm continuously reminded why I don't use it at home).
"However, while Linux has "problems", they are only significant to the more naive user base. They are nothing that some training and some willingness on the part of the user to learn something new couldn't fix. In other words, these "problems" are social, not technological (except in the sense that ALL such "problems" are technological as per my previous paragraph.)"
I don't think that's accurate. I have technical issues with Linux with supposedly supported hardware (Intel PRO/100 network chipset, Matrox G550 video card) that I have not been able to solve, yet I am not a naive user. I think it's likely that these are bugs introduced through a lack of regression testing, because a number of out of date versions of Linux distros work fine (as well as FreeBSD), yet newer versions of the distros that I've tried don't work.
I rarely criticize things I don't care about.
Incidently, I decided to give Linux one more shot before giving up. I downloaded SuSE 9.1. The onboard network interface still doesn't work, but again, I don't care because the gigabit card does work. The video card works fine. Therefore, I'm satisfied.
I rarely criticize things I don't care about.
ooosh
(the sound that was heard over the head of the moderator.)
You can't handle the truth.
I didn't say there were NO technical issues, I said most of the complaints about Linux aren't about technical issues. And I don't count bad drivers as actual "technical" issues, they're more "distro competence" issues or issues related to lack of industry support - which is indeed a problem for Linux but is not Linux's fault. The driver issue is also one that, as I indicated, varies by user depending on their hardware. I've read people complaining that their AC97 onboard audio doesn't work with Linux - mine works fine with ALSA.
And, yes, I wouldn't be surprised if regression testing was lacking in most of the distros.
The bug with parted and the 2.6 kernel disk geometry reporting would have been caught if somebody had regression tested a Linux install in a dual boot environment. Supposedly the Fedora people claimed none of their testers dual boot with Windows - a seriously lame excuse. They KNOW a lot of people dual boot, and they KNOW the kernel geometry reporting changed, and they KNOW (or should at least suspect) that parted was affected, and they KNOW installation is the most difficult time for Linux users, so a thorough testing of the partitioning process in a dual boot environment should have been done.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
Good for you.
Another "distro competence" issue, apparently. SUSE has a rep for being more "cutting edge" on hardware support.
Why the other distros don't simply watch what each other does and then do the same is beyond me. Some "Not Invented Here" human bullshit, I guess.
After all, the point of open source IS to be able to use what somebody else does and make it better.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
From my perspective, if none of the distros can do it out of the box, it can't be done. If it requires me to figure out some local hack, it's passed the threshold where I'm willing to put in the effort. The kernel may not be at fault (sometimes it is), but my stuff still doesn't work.
I'm as far from a naive user as you can get without being a kernel hacker, and I still have these problems.
Anyway.
I think there's a lesson in this. That lesson is to never post on slashdot when you've just come home from a bar.
I rarely criticize things I don't care about.
Heh, heh.
Fortunately I don't drink.
Of course, as a Bruce Sterling character said once, "I don't need drugs. I have my power fantasies."
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
It's begun... already
if there are good posts why did a few stop you reading? And what self congratulating crap Groklaw hasn't done anything to congratulate themselves over.
Saying Apple is better than MS is like saying Botulism is better than rabies.
So there no diffrent from any other forum.
Saying Apple is better than MS is like saying Botulism is better than rabies.
In my view, Linux (and Windows) are crap because they are both based on primitive windowing/mouse and other "low" technology.
You are seriously misinformed about Linux architecture if you believe that. Most Linux distributions ship with GUI frameworks, but those are separate products that simply run on the Linux kernel.
You've misunderstood me.
I'm quite aware of how Linux is constructed.
I was referring to the overall user interface as well as the overall design of OS's - which by the way does indeed include how the kernel interacts with the user interface level.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!