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Should Game Consoles Make Breakfast, Too?
Ryan writes "Is the idea of 'convergence' (the notion that a single digital appliance will handle multiple tasks) in gaming consoles even worth it? CNET News has an article discussing the issues of convergence related to gaming - it seems like a lot of consumers aren't worried about the bells and whistles, yet they keep throwing them at us." The article mentions the "underwhelming" response to Sony's PSX console/DVR combo, whose "arrival in North America--originally slated to happen in time for the 2004 holiday shopping season--is now set for an unspecified date in 2005."
"Should Game Consoles Make Breakfast, Too?"
Not a bad idea:
If you play console while it's making breakfast it won't scream "What are you doing?! Don't touch me!"
You can eat your breakfast without the console whining to you.
If breakfast is cold you can beat the console without feeling guilty.
You can demand beer for breakfast and the console won't complain.
If you throw out the console it won't hire a lawyer to take half your stuff.
Man, if RealDoll.com could "converge" this new console concept with their products they'd be trillionaires.
Trolling is a art,
I suspect that much like females in video games the breakfast would look great, but be pretty empty and unrealistic.
No wait, the cellphone's trying to be the console, and doing a crappy job at it... so far
Nintendo have always been sceptical of the "Everything and the kitchen sink" approach that Microsoft and Sony have taken with their consoles. They do but one thing -- gaming -- but do it well, unlike their other competitors who want to be a DVD player/CD player/PC/Internet terminal/TiVo. Their philosophy is to focus on one thing -- gaming, and make it our core competency, continuing to come out with seminal hits that people synonimize with the video game industry, Mario, Zelda, and so on.
They are continuing this trend with our future game consoles, and I do believe that because of Nintendo's laser-sharp and well-defined focus, that Sony and Microsoft's leads will be short lived in the next generation.
-- Samir Gupta, Ph. D. Head, New Technology Research Group, Nintendo Co. Ltd., Kyoto, Japan.
The only people craving convergence seem to be the gadget companies looking for another gimmick.
Free Mac Mini Yeah, it's
I don't know how they do things in Asia, but around here, Playing games and watching TV are very divergent functions.
On the other hand, can those things play games and record TV at the same time?
Nintendo cereal system!
- Make calls
- maintain a phone book
- let me upload my voicemails to my computer for archiving Even my oldest answering machine in the 80s let me change tapes to save messages.
Why do they keep adding crap like virus-ridden operating systems and video games, when they don't even have the basic voice features working yet.The optimist sees "convergence" while the pessimist sees "feature creep". Guess that makes me a pessimist.
Seems simple, be happy if my new console could play my old games(more than 1 generation old). All in wonders seem mediocre all around, how bout focusing on expanding their main use, not mediocre overlap of features other devices do better.
Although these 'combos' are good for people that have none of the offered tech but want them all, I believe separates are the way to go. Then I do not end up with 3 DVD players (1 standalone, 1 w/PS2, 1 w/XBox).
A better idea is to have all these 'parts' interconnect in a more seamless way - have additional devices plug in to a master controller, which would allow infinite connections (instead of the current setups where the 3rd game system is connected on the 'tape' monitor.
Underwhelming response? Dammit, I was looking forward to Playing my cake and eating it to. /me ducks
Yo Grark
Canadian Bred with American Buttering
C'mon. Do ONE thing, do it well, and do it inexpensively. This stuff is starting to look more and more like those 8-track/cassette/turntable/tuner lashups from the 70's. Sheesh.
--- Asking inconvenient questions for over 30 years...
Why don't all TV sets come with built-in radios, DVD players, game console, calculator, web browser, home power regulators (you know, to turn your lights, heating and other things on and off), CD player, etc, etc???
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a fat white guy who is threatened by change."
Let's face it, the PS2 has been out for how many years now? and Japan, of all markets, is definitely saturated with PS2s.
If you already have a PS2, and you're in the market for a PVR, would you:
* buy a PVR that has another PS2 in it, therefore paying an unnecessary premium,
or
* buy just a PVR at a lower cost?
as soon as you can converge (real life) sex and gaming than you have a convergence I'll buy.
-Teiresias
But don't try to do it all with hardware.
Imagine a device that I can plug into my TV. It will play DVDs, it will take my CD's, convert them to MP3s (autmatcially putting in track names and authors), it will allow internet surfing (yes, a TV isn't as good as a monitor), PVR, game playing, paying bills online, etc. it will handle VOIP (with built in message manage), IM, home automation, home security, water the lawn when it needs it, etc.
Sounds nice, I'd buy one. Oh wait I have one, its called a computer. None of the things I mentioned above are new. Rolling all of these features into one device is going to take forever. However, build a nice fanless computer. Make it a DVD player and have some basic MP3 functionality. Release. Do a software update to allow web surfing. Do a software update to do home automation (thermostat, time lights, etc). Do a software update to ... you get the picture. The thing is, this can all be done today, nothing is new. But trying to build it all at once is the wrong way to go at it. Start slow, release often. Sure most of us on slashdot aren't going to be the target market, but our families, friends, and other non-techno people are.
I remember the 3D0 and the CD-i being touted as all in one devices, and they failed miserably. Panasonic and Phillips seem to forgot that it is - and I hate to point out the obvious - all about the games. Being able to play movies, or record TV shows should just be a bonus, not the focus of a console.
Plus, I would rather have devices that performed one function, and did them well, than one device that could do several things rather poorly. The PS2 is a great game playing machine, but makes a lousy DVD player.
Karma: Can only be portioned out by the Cosmos.
As long as it can make toast and run NetBSD I'm happy :)
Next Week: New Game Consoles Only Play Games
Next they'll release deticated devices for each feature and call it innovation.
© 2004 The SCO Group, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
LOfuckingL...
The nice thing about a market economy and competition is that these things sort themselves out. Unless you work for Sony or Nintendo, who cares? Let Microsoft eat their lunch, just like they taught a lesson to everyone else with lousy judgment.
maybe there was an "underwhelming response" because they were charging an arm and a leg for the fricking thing.
Tivo = $99.
PS2 = $150.
Tivo + PS2 = $900?
what kind of math is that?
The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
What if pacman could eat the commercials on your DVR... ?
e.
Build Your Own PVR/HTPC news, reviews, &
Convergence is great in some areas, but not so great in others. PSX - why? I have a ps2, I have a DVD player. If I wanted to record TV, I would buy a TiVo. It costs much less then buying all the equipment rolled into 1 package, and also it means its harder to upgrade. Mobile Phone - good idea! I like having tons of stuff rolled into my phone, because it goes with me wherever I go. Convergance is a good idea for mobile devices because consumers dont like to take lots of stuff with them. Its a bad idea for home use because consumeres dont mind having 5 different devices at home.
Hell, no! That's what cell phones are for!
The "set-top box" is a white elephant. Not just because of technical hurdles, but the very fact that people don't want it.
I have a seperate DVD player and XBox. The fact that the XBox can play DVDs didn't stop me from getting the DVD player. Why? Because I want to watch a movie upstairs while my kids play Soul Calibur II. Simple, huh? Why should I buy two $500 devices when a $40 DVD player and $120 Xbox do what I need?
And hey, when my XBox breaks, I can still watch DVDs, play CDs, pay my bills online, keep my milk cold and fresh, and make delicious toaster pastries.
All-in-one devices are single points of failure.
Not to mention the "jack of all trades, master of none" angle. Sure the XBox can play DVDs. But not in 640p (ok after modding and hacking it can). Even a $40 DVD player has progressive scan these days. It's a specific example, but of a general trend.
Just like instead of a reliable phone with good battery life, manufacturers think we "really want" is a shitty phone, grainy camera, buggy PDA, and laughingly unplayable games.
Hell, a clie is small enough that I can duct-tape it to the phone myself, if that's what I need.
I can see niche markets for some of this convergance stuff. The rich guy who did a 100,000 dollar remodel of his living room, and an a/v rack with room for a DVD player, TiVo and PS2 just aren't in the budget. Fine, he can pay the premium.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Must there be an "overwhelming" response to any product in order to consider it a success? Why does every movie have to be Spider-Man? Why does every game console have to be a PlayStation? Why does every book have to be Harry Potter?
Business would be a lot better if management would stop looking for the ultimate money grab and spend more time on the quality of their products and the non-monetary value of their business.
Business isn't willing to pay for products, innovation and careers, so we get brands, mortgage commercials and layoffs.
The idea of a do it all box is intriguing, but I'm still more inclined to want to keep these things separate. For one thing, if I want to take my gaming console to a friends house, it won't mean ripping out the heart of my home entertainment system. Also, when one thing breaks, it won't mean losing it all. On the other hand, with a good design and price point I might be inclined to buy both a dedicated unit as well as a combined unit. Perhaps the best bet is to take a component system approach which will give the consumer the choice of building the system the way the way he/she wants to.
As for bringing PCs into the picture, I think Apple may be on the right track with their Airport networking which allows streaming of music from your computer to your stereo system. I like that because it keeps the computer in the office where I want it. So I like the idea of various devices being able to work together without having to be in the same box. Unfortunately, I can see entertainment industry's paranoia getting in the way of these efforts since they are so worried about people pirating music and movies.
To the making of books there is no end, so let's get started
I'm sick of convergence. Any device that does several functions usually only does them "okay". It does not of them "excellent".
I'm tired of manufacturers shoving convergence down my throat. For example, I want a cellphone that does one thing...gives me excellent performance as a phone. I don't give a damn about it being a camera, I have cameras for that. I don't give a rat's ass if it can function as a PDA, I have a PDA for that. I just want it to be a phone, and be a damned good one. Not a piss-poor phone/PDA/camera/kitchen sink.
I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
" give them time to redesign the device to better suit Western consumer tastes."
WTH is that supposed to mean????
if convergance is not desired.... why then do people mod x-boxes and add all sorts of cool functionality (like media centers, file shares, web browsers, etc etc etc)?
*Shrug*
e.
Build Your Own PVR/HTPC news, reviews, &
I'd rather have my PC make my breakfast, 'cuz I often eat things other people think are wierd so I'd like to be able to alter the spice to taste. I just know my cellphone would get hammered with telemarketers spewing sauteed spam. And I don't want to depend on an s/o to make me breakfast-- I'm hungry everyday, not once every 25 years.
**Warning, failure to preview may unmake existence. Post anyway? [Y/n]**
# _
"A witty saying proves nothing." ~Voltaire
"d'Oh!" ~Homer
And not only that, convergence takes away choices...kinda like those all-in-one stereo pieces of shit.
If the CD player in one of those dies, you may as well throw the whole thing out, since it's made so cheap that the repair cost isn't worth the effort. This goes for almost any multifunction device.
I like my PS2...and I also like my TiVo, but when the time to upgrade to HDTV comes along, I'm really only going to want the new PVR/tuner. Even if I like the Sony PVR, what happens to the X-Box or Nintendo fan? They simply get junk they don't need and had to pay for.
I don't want to replace an entire system when a subset of that system either breaks, or I want to upgrade.
// Agent Green (Ian / IU7 / KB1JQO)
// IEEE 802.3: All 10base Are Belong To Us
Some hot buttery toast?
How about a bagel?
Okay, I'll get those Belgian Waffles ready. With Halo 3 on the side.
- Talkie Toaster
I never got into the whole console gaming thing. I found using both my hands to move/shoot in a first-person shooter was too much of a shift from having my hands separated by a keyboard and mouse.
Then there's the issue with porn. I can't get it from a console. And even if I could get it from a console system, I'd not want to bring my hands together to manipulate the experience.
With a computer and porn, I have one hand on my cock and one hand on the mouse clicking interactive nipples and dragging those Macromedia Shockwave dildos around.
It would just be too weird to hit UP-UP-A-B-LEFT-RIGHT-TRIANGLE-START while also getting my jerk on. Much too much going on there all near by groin. Not to mention the rumble pack option that causes the ol' premature ejaculation.
My dirty and completely bullshit 2 cents.
IronChefMorimoto
if it was priced lower than US$600 (last I heard). I really love the device and would scoop one up in a second if I couldn't go out and buy a computer to do all the same things for less than the cost of the PSX.
I think Microsoft learned this lesson the hard way; offering too many unused features at too high a price. They seem to be steering the Xbox successor to more profitable waters, and maintaining the core focus on performance.
On top of it all, I think is Sony is trying to milk the PS2 market for all it's worth with the price of a PS2 around $149.99, four years later.
Just my 2 cents.
What I'd like to see, would be devices that knew how to talk to each other, whereby I can get an all in one device, or the seperate systems, and it wouldn't make any difference. I personally imagine all of this on Gigabit, and talking with something similar to Apple's Zeroconf (used to be called rendezvous, but I'm pretty sure it's got a new name now). Imagine a TV that advertised that it could accept audio or video streams, a DVD player that offered out video, a stereo that offered audio streams, speakers that would accept audio input, a wifi remote control that could find all of these devices and now wouldn't need a 8 year old child to program it ;) It's definitely doable, I just don't think it's in the interests of the electronics manufacturers to go there yet...
Could be hard to get off those fin shaped cooking plates though.
[% slash_sig_val.text %]
They have stated, many times, that they build systems to play games, and thats IT.
Good games.
Good, high quality, fun, games with recognizable characters.
People line up for the next "mario" game because the last 20 have been fantastic. It sells systems, and has a great track record.
I mean, have you played windwaker? Its a friggin work of art!
no
From the company that gave us connectivity comes the Nintendo GameToaster. Hook this baby up to your Nintendo GameCube and you'll be able to make toast while playing games. It doesn't really much have to do with games, but hey, everybody likes toast, right? So pre-order your GameToaster now, and prepare to get toastin'!*.
* = Sliced bread sold separately. Please use only Nintendo-certified bread with your Nintendo GameToaster product. Using uncertified third-party bread can cause loss of bread (crumbs), incompatibility with butter or in some cases burned toast.
I'm down with convergence if they could get my game system to make juice.
- Relativistic? That's barely Newtonian!
One of the big reasons I ended up buying my kids a Gamecube is that these console systems are very easy to use. I toyed with the idea of getting the kids to use a pc for games, but that meant me spending lots of time installing games, teaching them how to start them, changing screen resolutions, etc. Game compatibility was also a big issue. With the Gamecube (other consoles are them same), all they need to know is power, eject and reset (heck they don't even need the last one). All the gamecube games we buy will work immediately, even if Dad is there. If this device was also a web browser, toaster, etc. I would have one more machine to be sys admin for.
"Is the idea of 'convergence'"
of course makes sence only for personal devices,
the ones used by one person only, like cell phones or PDA (integration started there already)
A breakfast-making game console would've been a real possibility had Microsoft used an Athlon XP instead of a Pentium III. Why, you can cook eggs on them!
I'm gonna go hide now...
In Soviet Russia, Jesus asks: "What Would You Do?"
says the microsoft guy... i'll give you two guesses why microsoft isn't cramming xbox w/ hordes of extra multimedia stuff. here's a hint - they dominate the PC market! why give people one machine that does everything you want/need when you can give them two or three for 4 - 5 times the cost, with all revenue going to the same company?
is the one most of you are typing on right now. A modern PC stores and plays high quality movies, music, games, displays photo's. It can even be used to create music, documents of all kinds, games, edit movies, access the internet, communicate, keep you organized and lots of other stuff I forgot. And it even does most of these things pretty well. Just because some big companies tried and failed to make their "convergence device" work does not mean the whole concept is flawed.
One problem with convergance, if it breaks, you loose your coffee maker, toaster, game player, dvd player instead of just loosing your atari, ahh the good 'ole days.
---
Those who can, do
Those who can't, teach
Those who don't know how, supervise
I'd be happy if they would just make a single remote control that would operate my TV and all my stereo components well enough that I wouldn't need the individual remotes. When they can do that, they will be ready to tackle convergence.
I want my dick and your ass to totally converge!
Beyond the clock radio, what's ever worked better from putting two different functions together?" (from the article)
I prefer a regular alarm clock and a seperate radio with better sound, so even that one doesn't fly.
Sure I like doing lot's of things on my PC, but when I make a phone call, I like to do it from a telephone. When I fix my car, I like ordinary ratchets with regular sockets (sorry Bob Vila, no pocket socket). When I want a fork or a spoon, I do not want a spork. The Mega-Gadget 2000 may look cool, but using any one feature is far more cumbersome than using the individual tools it replaced, and if it breaks, I no longer have my whatcha-ma-callit, my doo-hickey, or my whirli-bob. Plus, if I buy a PSX, I still can't play Halo.
So why has it been pursued? Simple, because it is believed that the first company to create a "digital hub" that is widely accepted by most consumers will have tremendous leverage. Sony entered the video game industry with the specific dream of creating this "digital hub," a device that would handle all entertainment and information needs.
Microsoft entered the videogame business because they feared Sony might succeed, and might create an information appliance that would replace the personal computer for the average user.
Imagine if 90% of DVD Players, "WebTVs", DVRs, and CD Players and game machines were represented by a single device, call it the Sony Playstation X (you also need to imagine that the most popular way to do common tasks currently done on PC were done on this device). Well, all the manufacturers of DVDs and CDs, and all the producers of content for the Web and TV would be beholden to Sony. We all know the way Microsoft in the past has added things to their OS to wreak havoc with their competition, and because they were a semi-monopoly, all anyone could do was complain and try litigation. It's because Microsoft understands this so well that they decided to pour money into the XBOX, and why there will be an XBOX II even though XBOX hasn't been a big success.
Look at Sony, they are great believers in locking out content if they don't want it on their systems. They've learned quite a bit from dealing with mod chipping and have had great success getting their Digital Millenium Copyright Act enacted into US Federal Law. If they succeed, they will have unprecedented power over information.
All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
As a purist I'd rather that my Denon home theatre receiver didn't have an AM/FM tuner in it, because the tuner section is crap and because I don't listen to radio on my home theatre system, but I don't have to use the tuner, I could even put an outboard tuner in if I wanted to, so it does no harm except to my aesthetic sense.
Manufacturers of all-in-one devices would do well to ask themselves if jamming all of these devices into one box achieves any kind of synergy that makes the sum greater than the parts. Even when there are natural synergies that are inherent to the hardware, such as the ability of the X-box and PS/2 to play DVDs, you may still find that users don't find this useful, as evidenced by the number of people I know who own both an X-box and a DVD player or a PS/2 and a DVD player.
Of course it might be nice if software developers would ask the same question. Do users really need an office suite that does all of the useless crap that MS Office or Star Office does? Or would users be better served if developers looked for natural synergies in software products?
cheap labor conservatives - they want to keep you hungry enough to be thankful for minimum wage.
You can't bend a Game Console over the breakfast table without seriously imparing the amount of fun you can have with it.
Complain about something legitimate, and you are trying to be fashionable? Wow. I guess I have been fashionable since 2000. That is when I ditched my cellphone because it was a pointless cost. It is a sheer convenience that people have treated like a necessity. I had the first StarTac that Motorola produced, back in 96 I think. It was analog. Phones today give no better call quality than that phone did then. Once I realized that "digital" was no better than analog, I got rid of it. My wife and I have a pre-paid phone for emergency use only, and spend about $10 a month on it. We rarely use it, it simply isn't necessary. I don't know where you live, but I live near Chicago, and call quality sucks here. I get sick of hearing people yelling "Hello? Hello?" into their phones, or worse yet see people driving and trying to figure out if the call got dropped or not. And Nextel has their cool 2-way service, but I have never been able to understand what anyone is saying using that.
Don't believe the hype, you don't need a cellphone.
To answer the question of "Why do they keep making and selling crappy features instead of improving call quality", I have to ask: "Why do you have a cell phone? Have you given them a reason to improve call quality?" If you own a phone now, and keep signing contracts every year or two, then you are showing them that it doesn't MATTER if call quality sucks, people will still sign on the dotted line.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
I mean if I'm playing "insert fav console game here", and want to record "insert show to be tivo'ed here" while my kids watch "insert lame kid program...dammit they need more Tom and Jerry...I digress", all within the comfort of my living room in split screen format on the big screen, you probably don't want converge unless it can do all of the above at the same time. With a separate console, "tivo" type box, and STB or dvd player, you can do all the above the same time. Will the PS3 or XBox 2 let you do all that?
Additionally, once the damn thing breaks, you're out all those devices. If the dvd player breaks, I buy a new dvd player, likewise for the console and various STBs.
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a fat white guy who is threatened by change."
The reason people aren't running out to buy one is because everyone who is going to buy a PS2 either has one, or is still waiting for it to be $99. The PSX has no new features that improve on the PS2's gaming ability. It just has a DVR(which, again, people who are going to have a DVR already do).
I'm for all-in-one units, as long as they don't cost a fortune. Here's what I would want in one.
1. DVD playback
2. CD playback
3. Convert DVDs, when inserted, to DivX and store on hard drive.
4. Convert CDs to (insert favorite codec)
5. TV/HDTV tuner(w/DVR ability)
6. Gaming Console
7. Optional DirectTV/Dish tuner(also DVR ability)
8. Photo ability(plug in camera, auto imports images)
9. Network Server to stream all media, plus connect to machines to get media
10. Web Browser/Email clients
12. Most important - a GUI that a four year old can work. Nothing that scares my parents from using it and being left to sit unused. If a movie DVD is put in, it acts just like any other DVD player.
13. Priced around $500 - 600.
I know, I could build one myself, thought not for the $500. Most people, including me, would rather have a "come home, plug in, and run" machine like a game console.
I have a HDTV that I bought in 2002. It has a built in HD receiver, and I thought I would save $500 on a HD receiver by getting this TV. I hooked it up, and it's great.
Now I want to add a tivo. Hmm... No video out from the TV. There's nothing. No RCA, or even COAX outs from this HD receiver. It's all routed internally. Even pulling the back cover off revealed nothing useful to "hack" into.
And now I see HDTV external turners with built in Tivo. Those are really cool, and I'd love to get one, but there's no HDTV inputs on the back of my RCA. Guess the engineers didn't think people would ever be connecting such devices to their HDTVs. I mean WTF?!?
Convergence blows. It basically locks you into something that might be obsolete in a few months (or years, if you're lucky).
Why complain about convergence when it doesn't add complexity or cost? Sure my PS2 plays DVDs, but they didn't have to add any extra hardware to do it, (except if you buy the OPTIONAL remote). And why complain about being able to play media files on an xbox using only software? If you don't like it, don't buy the software.
The "convergence" move arose out of the success of the PC. The idea is that general purpose devices can work really well, and allow reuse of components. The problem is that the reason the PC did well is because it was open, general purpose, reconfigurable, and available from many sources. There is no General Purpose Cell Phone 2004 Standard. I can't just buy a "phone platform" and replace parts in it from another vendor. Instead, I have to buy an increasingly expensive, proprietary and complex system. On a PC, I can tone down complexity -- on a cell, I have to use whatever I'm offered.
On a "converged" open platform like the PC, I don't lose choice over what I buy. I might like WinAMP over Sonique, Wordperfect over Word, and Firefox over Internet Explorer. That's okay, because I can still pick and choose the elements of my converged device. On a closed (i.e. unsuccessful) converged platform, this is not the case. Cell providers sell these all-in-one packages, where one must use every element of one of several packages -- you either get phone model Foo or phone model Baz.
The same goes for game platforms, set-top/cable boxes, watches, and so on, and so forth.
May we never see th
Every morning, millions of Americans will wake up to turn on their Microsoft EggsBox and Sony PlayBacon before sitting down for breakfast. And for those in Britain, there'll always be the Nintendo SugarCube to help you make tea.
With XBMC the xbox becomes a great media client that can stream DiVX videos from my SMB shares and MPEG video from my replaytv.
Scuttlemonkey is a troll
Nintendo made it a point that thier system would only be a game console. It helps keeps hardware prices down (No DVD consortium to pay royalties to). They stuck to that attitude and lost sales, though I do have to agree with them on priciple.
If you're making a game consule, make a really good one. We don't all need the extra crap.
Of course if you really wanted you could by the Panasonic licenced version of the gamecube, called Q-something, that would play DVDs.
...nine times out of ten, you can't just do a 100% replacement. You can't "Oh, I got a shiny new cameraphone from T-Mobile, time to put that 8-megapixel Canon I just got on eBay!" No. You get a jack-of-all-trades, but king-at-none deal. I'd kinda see the consolidation effort if the technology just happens to be sitting there like the XBox playing DVDs. It's just when they seemed to be mashing two devices (or more *cough* N-Gage) it starts to get ridiculous.
-K
I already own the only, single-use/multi-use uber-convergant device: The PC.
If proprietary-minded whores (MPAA/RIAA) embraced these *EXISTING* devices, we would all be much further ahead. Minor tweaks to my PC, and its the only device I need -- game machine, movies/music, internet, telephony yadda yadda yadda.
The trick is these arsewholes want to put up iron-curtains around our lives in order to exercise total control over their percieved realms. These ego-maniacs exercise this control with abandon, and bring the very real might of the plutocracy to bend the world to their will. There is no reason 'consoles' arent PCI cards... hell, conversley, there is no reason my console isnt my PC. Making a platform for open development brought forth the Computer Revolution (despite the efforts of IBM to stop it at the time (and apple is a convenient anti-trust foil for MS)) but i digress.
In short, fark single-use boxes -- just give me some software.... hell, i'll even pay reasonably for the media, but no one wants to do this, because it means cooperation between two massive capitalist industries... and they are more afraid of loosing their piece of the pie to the *real* pirates across Baystreet(or wallstreet or $your-financial-center
Should Game Consoles Make Breakfast, Too?
Yes breakfast would be nice... but I think us slashdotters would much prefer a console that could some how attract women to it...
Just choose one of these. Just one alone keeps people from buying these things.
1. The components they put into the consoles never work as well as a stand alone versions.(See: DVD Playback in PS2)
2. People balk at paying $400-$500 for something all at once. They are more comfortable paying $150 for a console one month, buying a DVD player for $100 the next, and a DVR for $150 the following month.
3. People like to have THE BEST. The best console, the best DVD player, the best DVR. A Converged Console isn't going to be the best at anything other than saving space.
4. People like to have their gadgets seperate because it looks "cooler". Lights. So. Pretty.
They save space. Under my TV I have a DVD player, VHS player, and a stereo receiver. I have no more room. If I added a playstation and a TIVO I'd have to stack them on the floor, and that's something I finally quit doing after college. So if the combined unit successfully accomplishes all of it's purported tasks, I'd rather have that, if only for space considerations.
All these fancy gadgets make television far more complicated. And they tend to have absolutely terrible user interfaces. The VCR/DVD interface has shaken down into a mass of tiny buttons and stateful on-screen menus, different for each manufacturer.
Overall integration is terrible. You'd think there would be a "Buy" button on TV remotes by now. No way. Just getting all the volume controls to play together is beyond the industry's abilities.
I can't see Microsoft solving this problem. They haven't been able to solve it for the PC. Apple, maybe.
I cook breakfast on my GeforceFX 5600 Ultra indoor barbeque all the time. I may have to claim prior art!!
Seriously though, a game console that could cook would a good start for us slashdotters. Soon hopefully they will add a house cleaning feature and maybe hook it up to a real doll somehow?
"Software is like sex... it's better when it's free"
You're sony and you have the facilities to make a bunch of consoles, but the market is getting saturated with your product and the next generation is several years away, so what do you do?
You try to squeeze in every possible extra customer onto your platform by offerring more features as incentinves.
Adding a DVD burner + TiVo and pricing your PS2 at $1000 was just the wrong way to go about it...
Now a PS2 with virtual sex toy attachments would be another matter...
Forget the pairing of console game + entertainment center.
True gamers want:
Console game + toilet.
Close seconds:
Console game + keg
Console game + firearms + range
Console game + vending machine
and I guess we would need the obligatory
Consol game + one-handed keyboard!
Sorry to be totally ot but what is the time frame for xbox 2???
Make a call: Maybe, if you're not in a dead zone. Even then the quality of the call varies widely depending on you are and where the caller is.
Receive a call: Ditto.
Save phone numbers: Yep
Receive voice mail: Not immediately, or reliably. I just received a message that was left by another Verizon user for me over 18 hours ago. We're on the same network, yet somehow the message doesn't get to my phone for 18 hours. I don't want to know how it all works. I don't care. I want my phone to make messages available to me within a few minutes of the message being left. Is that so much to ask?
It's not fashionable to compain about cell phones; it's just a reaction to widespread annoyances. Pundits think cell phone cams are wildly popular because so many people buy them. But people buy them because they want features that are bundled with the cam features. Cell phone hardware is becoming commoditized, and the manufacturers are trying desperately to provide more and more goodies that most people don't need or want.
That leads me to another very annoying thing about cell phones and service providers: Lack of phone choice. As a consumer, I don't want to have to run through a byzantine search just to find out what phones will work with my plan. Cell services need to get much better about providing clear and useful information to consumers. They're still too used to acting like in many respects like utilities: You get the service we give you - be happy.
I like having the flexibility of a cell phone, but it also annoys the hell out of me sometimes, in that it's often like stepping backwards from land line in terms of voice quality. Sure, the cell has all of these additional features, but the primary purpose of the cell phone is to make it easy for me to have a clear, garble-free phone conversation. The other bells and whistles are just distractions from the fact that cell companies have a long way to go in that department.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
1 and only 1 reason - price is too high.
Computers went through the same growing pains too, the original computers like the Comadore was very feature rich while the PC had add-on's through the isa bus. As long as you offer a simple plug and play version for the average joe you can offer extra features for the truely geeky. That way if somebody really wants to have their xbox record video they can buy the add-on to do that.
every 'convergance' thing I've seen does things really half assed instead of the few things they should be doing really well.
Example 1: Cell phones with cameras. I never used the one that came with my phone, and the one time I wanted too use it I find myself behind the Cubs dugout on business at a game. I hate baseball but my brother was a big time baseball in school. I wanted to send him a picture of my view. I did, but it looked like crap, and you could hardly tell what I shot a picture of. This was with a Nokia 6225.
Example 2: Sony PS2 and DVD player. Not sure if it improved but I tried it and without the $30 remote on a $299 system (yeah things have changed, but still) and then it was a mediocre at best player.
I've never tried the Xbox. That's because I just don't like the idea of MS and my TV becoming one thing.
It just seems to me that in order to keep the price from being good this+good that+good that type thing they cut out things here and there and you get a mediocre at everything device.
Eventually they might improve, but for a few years you get nothing but junky stuff and end up tossing the al-in-one in favor of multiple devices.
As a rock-in-roll Physicist once said, No matter where you go, there you are.
Says you.
When I spent $200 on an Xbox, you couldn't get $40 DVD players then.
Plus, "convergence" is just natural. I mean, what should MS have said: "Duhr, we've got a DVD drive in our game console, hey, let's make it NOT play movies! LOL!!!111"? Yeah, that would've been great. Likewise, the first CD-ROM based game consoles could play audio CDs. Again, a capability of the hardware, being put into use. The Xbox wasn't made to be all-in-one, it was made to play games, and the hardware that went along with that had other abilities, and only a total moron would not exploit those.
Now, game consoles have hard drives. DVR capabilities are an obvious use of this. The hardware is there - one might as well include some software to make use of it.
People talk about the Xbox and PS2 and their future counterparts, as if they're being made to do everything under the sun. They're not. They're being built as game consoles, and then the other abilities of the hardware are being put to good use.
People aren't against the PSX because it is an all-in-one - they're against it because you can buy two PS2s and two TiVOs for the same price. Nobody bought the 3DO for its price either, and that had nothing to do with convergence.
It's called a NINTENDO.
I agree with all of your points.
However if an all in one unit is cheap enough, it doesn't matter that its a single point of failure.
For example, if I get a multi disc dvd player with surround sound speakers, I bought 1 box, everythings already set up, I just connect TV and the speakers and I'm done. Is it as good as a component set? HELL NO.
But what if its "good enough?" And cheap enough ($300-$500)? Even so-so "progressive scan" dvd players beat the pants off old VHS, so I'm happy with the improvement.
And thats my point- simplicity in gear is an illusion- but if its cheap enough it becomes a viable solution.
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
I really like to play video games. They are good.
Sure, and once you move it to software, you can do all of that but it will stink for playing games.
A PC, running services, is not the answer. In order to innovate graphics and gameplay, the platform you're describing would require hardware updates. How many people will need to upgrade the video card to play Half Life 2?
Excellent games are possible on consoles because the hardware can't be upgraded, but the optimization can. The PS2 is 5 year old technology -- same as it's been since it game out. But this year's version of GTA, or Madden, or whatever looks better because the coders have become so familiar with the platform that they can make smart optimizations.
When you have a platform that requires complete predictability to be optimal, you don't want processes running in the background to check your mail, or do your VOIP, or Tivoing away. Coders need to be able to continue optimizing for years to come without worrying about that junk interfering with the drawing rate. The PS3 and Xbox 2 might seem like they have cycles to spare when they come out, but in 5 years they'll look like dogs unless game developers can keep optimizing on a common hardware platform.
Let the cable and dish providers supply convergence. Games are games.
"Should Game Consoles Make Breakfast, Too?"
Not a bad idea
Breakfast is relevant? Oh, you're using the word loosely, like at 3pm.
Who the hell wants to view digital photos on an NTSC TV? Shouldn't these game console companies focus on the higher end of gaming first?
When are we going to see a game console that offers 3-D audio in a way to make it easy for developers to use it? With an optical out port? Or better yet, some way in the system for direct speaker output?
But it seems consumers don't even want that. Nintendo pulled the digital video out on the Gamecube because less than 1% of its users needed component out.
If your game console is going to make breakfast, it is going to have to have a cereal port.
I would argue that computers aren't really that great of an example of successful convergence. Take a look at your keyboard, mouse, and monitor. All of these components are a 'previous design' that have had new features hacked into them. (The keyboard especially, since it is derived from typewriters).
Using a keyboard or mouse is not intuitive for controlling a music player. The screen has not been designed for optimum viewing of song information.
I think the key to getting it right is to share components where it makes sense and to add to the system where another component would make it more natural. Modularity is key. For example, for a music player, I may want a USB device to plug into my computer that provides a display of the song as well as buttons to control the music. It can be an intuitive interface while still sharing the cpu , speakers, and storage with a general purpose computer.
What tends to happen is that enthusiasts refuse to compromise and stick to specialised units, while the average consumer -- for whom 'good enough' is good enough -- chooses the ease and value of a convergence device. Convergence devices will never clobber specialised items, but it will drive them into a niche.
This is exactly what has happened in the audio market, where enthusiasts can blow tens of thousands of dollars on arcane component audio devices, while the mass market is dominated by el cheapo Sharp and Panasonic integrated units.
If you don't like the scrambled eggs your console makes -- or the games you can play on it -- you can still get separate units. But be prepared to pay.
The $900 price includes the $699 for Linux!
but there will be greater integration - allow me to explain. Convergence is always made at an expense. The free bells and whistles are always nice and might help sway purchase towards one product over a similar, but that is all. As mentioned elsewhere the best example is the cell phone. My P800 I've had for well over a year as well as allowing me to make phonecalls, allows me to surf, listen to MP3s and take photos - as well as talk to people without wires. I don't think I played an MP3 file on it after the first few days of playing with it though. Rubbish interface, small storage, different set of (crap) earphones to carry about. The camera is poor, but quite often gets used to quickly send snaps to people, internet gets used when I want to quickly look up something and I know vaguely where it is already - you get the idea. Things that also live in my bag are a laptop, an ipod, 5M camera - I have all these things as in their specific role they all work better than feature on the converged device. The problem is, if all these technologies could be magically combined into this one device, it would cost a small fortune and nobody would buy it - why would the guy who doesn't listen to music pay a few hundred dollars etc for a Hard drive he's never going to use and also has to lug about. The more converged the device gets the fewer people it'll satisfy for the price (putting aside the hideous bloat it would have). Final point, when you've spent all your money on this device, you're trapped. When a better say camera comes out on the new model, even though you want to camera, you can't afford/justify a completely new converged device. Integration on the other hand is a good thing. All the above devices have USB sockets on them, they all plug into my PC. I snap a picture with the camera, download it onto my PC, Bluetooth it to my phone and send it with GPRS. The ways of shuffling my data between the devices are massive, USB, bluetooth, WiFi, USB-to-GO, Memory stick readers etc etc. As long as I have these interfaces the contents of my laptop bag act as a 'converged device' for all intents and purposes. A device I can upgrade components of, one I can get the best features and prices from different manufacturers - why would I want anything else? The only time convergence works is when two things are completely reliant on each other, cheap and unlikely to be superceded in the near future. Example I thought of here is a soundcard. My first PC worked fine without one, but as I wanted sound, so I bought a SoundBlaster. Nowadays it's hard to find a motherboard without a tiny onboard chip tucked away on it. Decent graphics cost more, get outdated faster, so they are less commonly integrated. I think my point that got lost in here somewhere is that unless the addon device is a freebie, it'll never happen. For every person that buys the product for one sub-feature, one won't want to pay for it, one won't want the extra size, one won't want his battery life being hammered etc etc. Easier just to not add it and then provide an interface the user can choose to use or ignore.
Yes, we DONT need a DVD-R/RW, we DONT need breakfast, guys, think about it, we JUST need a toilet!!! (and a blowj*b if you want to)...
It is called 'PC'.
The primary reason consoles are successful is because the PC is complex because it needs to handle all the available functions, even the ones that have not yet been thought of. Consoles take away the complexity for those that need to play games.
There is no point really in convergence devices from the consumer side. It only has a meaning from the corporate side: they can charge their products as much as they like, because mr average Joe would have no clue as to what it takes to run all these functions (as opposed to dedicated functions that average Joe may have a clue about).
Nintendo wants to make pure gaming machines. Before Nintendo adds a feature, it has to prove itself as a means to that end. That's their main argument for the lack of online Gamecube gaming... they don't see it to be worth the added expenses and administration requirements.
Even the controllers, which so many hate, are geared toward the kind of simplistic, elegant control required by the games Nintendo likes to make. The Z button is out of the way, yes, but game designers have learned how to use it appropriately, just like the ubnreachables on other consoles' controllers. And I find the GameCube controller to be the most confortable BY FAR.
The new Nintendo DS portable is a good showcase of new features that DO make Nintendo's cut... Dual screens, touch screen, 16-player wireless, 802.11, dual media, voice recognition, etc. It's (thankfully) NOT a phone, organizer, calculator, cheese grater, stud finder...
So basically what you are saying is, whereas PS2 is bought solely by idiots, PSX is intended to be bought solely by rich idiots.
Karma: It's all a bunch of tree-huggin' hippy crap!
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this before, but most "convergant" devices have zero multi-tasking ability.
So, that $900 PSX can record TV shows and Movies to DVD or internal HD or play games, but not both at the same time. If you want to play Final Fantasy X while you're recording Stargate SG-1, tough.
Happiness is relative, Based upon the way we live.
Hard drives are becoming bigger, but smaller hard drives do not become significantly cheaper. MS found that out the hard way: Most XBox sold today come with a big HD but only use a small partition. The rest of the disk is wasted. HDs have other minuses: HDs are complicated and failure prone pieces of hardware. There are few less reliable computer parts. Does Sony really want to handle 1 in a 1000 console returns for HD failures?.
it's not hard to find a 0.5 gig USB drive for under $100. By the time the PS3 or Revolution comes out, flash memory will make more sense than a HD for gaming. If you find an HD in your next console, it'll only be there because of some convergence master plan, not because it just happens to be good for gaming.
Just another way of saying bloated pice of crap? Let's cram another "feature" in there, because someone might want it. Nah, just because we can it doesn't ever have to be used, or work right, it just has to be there so we can charge another dollar for it.
Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
Xbox Live's content downloads are a small step.
If you really think that 1/2 a gig will stay sufficient for game console storage, well, I'd guess you fell for the old "640kb oughta be enough" line. Much like PC gaming, when permanent storage becomes ubiquitous, it will be USED. And a dinky 0.5 GB drive won't cut it.
Sony shouldn't go about making an "all in one" device like the PSX. What it should do is give the PS3 enough hardware and an ease of hackability so we can get a live DVD Knoppix distro booted on the thing, complete with all the Linux Desktop apps out there. If Sony releases such a DVD, even better. That, if anything else, could be the final nail in the Xbox's coffin. Imagine every home user having not only a game machine, but a functioning internet capable desktop with Open Office running on it.
READY.
PRINT ""+-0
I have a Sony Clie NX73v and it's a prime example of convergence. It plays MP3s, records/plays audio and video, takes pictures, browses the internet, acts as a PDA, plays games, and even plays Flash cartoons.
While none of these functions are of the highest quality, they are more than efficient and I use them everyday. If there is something I need to record or take a picture of I can just whip it out and do it all. As a PDA these functions extend it's simple organization abilities. That's hardly a bad thing in my opinion.
Now doing things that are entirely unrelated is another thing. For instance, a computer mouse/cheese grater. Sure it would be great if you really loved cheese and for some reason have a wheel of cheddar on your desk...but just how many of us love the cheese/computer combo that much?
But give me a mouse that doubles as a hand warmer/massager...hoo boy! I wouldn't need my xbox or PS2 to do that....but they sort of DO. The vibrating controllers are great for......back massages.
Is that a reference to Rez or Megatokyo?
"Fuck, my toast has jaggies! God damn you, Sony."
The article suggests that no other convergence products besides the clock radio have ever been very successful but I think they're forgetting that the fax machine is just a waffle iron with a phone attached.
Some places ban the use of cell phones with camaras. Which is EXACTLY why I will NEVER buy a phone with a camara. Hell, even if a non-camara phone is cheaper, I will pay extra to NOT get the built in camara!
Life is not for the lazy.
Absolutely! That's why the Commodore CDTV and CD32 wiped the floor with all the other console systems of the early '90s.
Oh wait....
"I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
"1. All-in-one = single point of failure when something breaks, and needs to be replaced."
.mp3, the CD, the DVD, or the video game???
.mp3, the CD, the DVD, or the video game???" It plays whatever you've just put in that one drive. Just like any other console.
Bullshit. See the airplane principle: an airplane with two engines has twice the probability of an engine failure. _If_ I was to assume that electronics have a high failure rate, I'd be more worried about having 10 modules than about having one.
But the failure rate isn't that high in the first place. My PS2 still works flawlessly. For that matter, so does my old Playstation. So does the Dreamcast I used to carry around everywhere. (Man, I loved that thing.) Admittedly, they've been well treated, but then I'd assume most people who are serious about watching DVD on one don't go around pouring Coke in them either.
And if it was to break tomorrow, wth, I got years of gaming _and_ DVD playing out of it. Methinks that's great value for the money.
And if we're talking reliability, let's talk a very related point: the advantage in using standard, proven components. The only ones experiencing any significant failures were the ones who went their own non-standard, non-converging way. Sega even got bitten hard by that, as their first units had massive problems with the still experimental "GD-ROM" drive. The ones who just went with a standard format, like DVD, even for convergence reasons, actually ended up with a more robust product.
"2. Generally speaking, all-in-one devices incorporate propietary technologies to promote lock-in and/or reduce 3rd party tech licensing costs for the company (SONY!!!!)."
Bullshit. You don't need proprietary DVDs to play on a PS2. Any old DVD will work.
Au contraire, if you want "proprietary" and "lock in", look no further than Nintendo. Or Sega. Where Sony put a bog-standard DVD-ROM drive in the PS2, both Nintendo and Sega went and made their own obscure proprietary CD formats.
"3. Quality of stand alone components is usually much higher. Think stereo equipment."
Bullshit. Or at least missing the point. Not everyone is a rich consultant, who must have some $3000+ designer module even to play CDs.
Sony's components in the PS2 are perfectly on par with most consumer grade stuff, and actually better than the cheap on-board sound you'll find in most PCs. And you get all that for a mere $15 extra. For most people it's superb bang per buck.
"4. Modularity = more cost effective upgrade path."
Bullshit. More cost effective than $15 for the DVD playing capability? You must be smoking some really good shit.
"5. All-in-one = usually more complex than individual devices. Stand alone means you can learn and understand the functions fully before moving onto the next component. Sometimes the 'role' of a device is confused when it is consolidated. e.g. Does 'play' mean play the
Bullshit. Have you even seen Sony's remote control, or are you talking out of your ass?
Hint: It's a standard remote control, just like those you'd get with a standalone DVD or VHS player. Anyone who can't figure that out, is probably too stupid to use any other remote control too.
Plus have you even seen a console? It only has one drive. How the heck would anyone get confused about "Does 'play' mean play the
And it has auto-play, just like Windows. So you can just see it on the screen if a game started, or you get a DVD's menu.
Briefly: anyone stupid enough to have trouble with that, would probably be too stupid to figure out whether they're playing Donkey Kong or Castlevania on their Nintendo 64. Or for that matter whether they're playing Doom 3 or Solitaire on their PC. I.e., at that point the problem isn't the complexity, it's just a user with single digit IQ.
"6. All-in-one convergence not always a logical combination. Digital camera cell phones? mp3 playe
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
As for consoles, I've seen alot of comparisons here regarding sub-$50 DVD players. For many of us, we bought the xbox/ps2 a while ago and the DVD player was like a bonus because DVD players started at $100. I still use my xbox as my dvd player, but when I buy an HDTV, I'll buy a better quality DVD player. I really don't want a convergence box under my tv that is my stereo, tivo, dvd-rw, game console. I can afford a $15 power strip in case I run out of plugs. Plus I can purchase components as I need them. $100 here, $200 there is alot easier to swallow than $1000 right at the start.
In this age of powerful computers, we still don't have a box that does everything because everyone is focused on how fast/new/super the hardware is and not on how to make their software better. Only to add more and more and more useless features (Office Suites, Quicken, etc.). More features is not always better. And I'm rambling...
Amigori
"The quality of life is determined by its activites."--Aristotle
Hell, in 1996 someone made a nice Acorn RiscPC with built in toaster/pizza oven. It even had a working sink so you could wash up afterwards!