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OpenGL 2.0 Released
berny@work writes "OpenGL has finally released version 2.0. The benefits include Programable Shaders, in particular: Shader Objects, Shader Programs, OpenGL Shading Language and changes to the Shader API. If you are interested take a look at the tutorials and the case studies that are linked to from the OpenGL site."
Now that there are changes to the way that directx is being implemented; does this open the door for a greater acceptance of opengl for games? It is important for opengl to be used as it is much more likely that a game will be ported to Linux if it is used.
Humor from a Genetically Molested Mind
Weird. I've been seeing cards claiming to be OpenGL 2.0 compatible for a while now.
Isn't it used for the Unreal Engine games and a lot of the Q3 engine games? There's a lot of games based on each of those engines.
It's like sex, except I'm having it!
what video card's/respective drivers support opengl 2.0 . Even the top of the line ati/nvidia cards support only opengl 1.5. I don't know about SGI's graphics subsystems though.
Lets hope that this will encourage more developers to switch to OpenGL. Yeah, I know the argument abt Direct3D being better (and I agree with it) but the new ver of OpenGL might just be good enough and arent the game developers always on the lookout for ways to get the massive linux gamers market
Can OpenGL ever match DX in popularity among developers?
One word: portability
Seriously, that guy almost has kept OpenGL relevant in the gaming industry almost single-handedly.
those cards have been able to do fragment and pixel shaders etc through openGL extensions, hence the xxx_ARB_EXT calls. this i assume is the release of all those extensions into the core of the OPENGL pipeline and thus will eventually be without the ARB into the call..
All I know is that this has been a long time in the coming and is great news, especially as MS has just announced the discontinuement of DX past the current version. Finally some competition to DX in modern games, however I really hope this will help people such as myself who do 3D work in Maya and such. Maya has just included a new feature that lets the viewports do a realtime high-quality openGL render as you work on your model/scene, so this can only make that faster and better (though as of right now, realistically speaking it isnt usable nor stable for actual work). Now for ATI to include serious openGL support for its cards & drivers...
"What can a thoughtful man hope for mankind on Earth, given the experience of the past million years? Nothing." -Bokonon
None of the tutorials seem to have anything specific to OpenGL 2.0; they seem to just be 'teaching' basic OpenGL stuff from previous standards.
Its used for a lot of popular games including Doom 3, Return to Castel Wolfenstein, Quake series, etc. See http://www.opengl.org/applications/windows/games/ for a list of the windows games using OpenGL
The new functionalities were in the previous versions as extensions AFAIK, OpenGL 2.0 adds them to the standard.
So (unless I missed something that wasn't previously an extension), you just need a new driver for your card and you'll be set.
The IT section color scheme sucks.
Jeez...
- OpenGL
- Direct3D
I personally think Direct3D is a bit better, since it can apparently handle more than one separate object at a time.
Back to the drawing board, OpenGL dudes!
Learn from Microsoft next time.
Thank you.
Can OpenGL ever match DX in popularity among developers?
Yes. id (quake, doom, etc) and I believe unreal both use it. Both are competitors, and as small of importance as portability to other operating systems such as Linux may seem to be, it is still somewhat important to them (although, I -still- haven't heard anything new about doom3 on linux)
Interest into porting to Linux is slowly becoming more popular between game makers, mostly because if you do it right for the windows port in the first place, it isn't as difficult as it might seem to port to Linux, and it helps open up a small new (starved?) market.
Game developers? Probably not any time soon. Developers of visualisation applications and the such? No-one seriously uses Direct3D for that.
Obviously DirectX has such things as DirectSound which don't really have alternatives under Windows, though.
A few years back people would have been asking the reverse.
I've got karma to burn.
Shizzle is not a word. It's a flag. To the rest of the world that the speaker of said word is a fucking dumbass.
It ranks right up there with "bling-bling".
Seeing how you actually tried to use it in a serious sentence, I figured someone should tell you.
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
I can't wait to try out some of these features, in 20 years when ATi implements them properly into their drivers, that is.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
The only way that it will match the popularity of DirectX is if someone produces an SDL on steroids. Something that matches DirectX feature for feature but in an open source and cross-platform manner.
Furthermore, I don't believe that Linux should not be the primary focus for this SDL on steroids - Win32, the XBox & PS2 should be. Why? Because obviously they're the platforms that games come out first. Get the games companies to program to this portable layer and it increases the chances that the port to Linux will appear some time after.
Maybe now that it is 'officially' out Bioware will take that into consideration and green light the Linux/OSX port for Neverwinter Nights 2.
The game is still early enough in development that they could still switch from DX and not have much impact in the release date
"Some things have to be believed to be seen." - Ralph Hodgson
Only two years behind the times!
Just different enough from existing GPU programming languages to be annoying, without any added functionality or ease of use!
No standard intermediate representation, requiring OpenGL drivers to contain full-blown compilers! Hello, latency!
OpenGL -- the best API and shading language a politics-laden commitee could design!
Seriously, if it weren't for Mr. Carmack, the dinosaur that is OpenGL would be deader than the dodo bird. Sad, as I spend half my day developing OpenGL apps, but true.
Nvidia and ATi will just 'upgrade' the driver support to GL 2.0 like theyve been doing incrementally. My GF3/GF FX 5200 supports GL 1.5 in the drivers now. It didn't on launch. Same applies to my Radeons.
Someone care to explain what that means?
t _version.html
From the "What's New" document:
Point Sprites
* Point sprites replace point texture coordinates with texture coordinates interpolated across the point. This allows drawing points as customized textures, useful for particle systems.
Point sprites were promoted from the ARB point sprite extension, with the further addition of the POINT SPRITE COORD ORIGIN parameter controlling the direction in which the t texture coordinate increases.
http://www.opengl.org/documentation/opengl_curren
One word: portability That's why I only create Java-games (rlse date: simultaneous w/Phantom console rlse).
This 3D game titled Pirates of XXI Century by DIO soft is in development on OpenGL 1.5, and is going to utilize OpenGL 2.0 eventually.
What about SDL?
"Our opponent is an alien starship packed with atomic bombs. We have a protractor."
In other words ID software's John Carmack uses Open GL. Of course ID software also open sources their Graphics engines after so many years. Quake 1 and 2 are out, I bet in another year or two Quake 3 will be released as well.
Long live the Kings of Death Match.
i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
While I love OpenGL far more than DX, your argument would be better served by not listing games that are all from the same company. (or at least, using engines from the same company)
Which take twice the time to load and run 1.3 times slower. In case u are wondering where I got the statistics from they come from the same place I download good Java games.
Actually on a serious not I would tend to agree with u and with Jav 1.5 the performance hit is drastically reduced so maybe Doom 4 will be in Java and will run on Solaris machines.
Not even close to the sound support in DX (DirectSound and DirectSound 3D). OpenAL is the only cross platform library for 3d positional audio..
Um, what do you think OpenGL 2.0 is? It's a specification.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
John Carmack posted here that the Quake 3 source would be released by the end of the year.
You're more likely to be considered a dumbass for pointing that out.
peace.
any other resources for someone interested in starting to tinker with opengl programming?
Sure it's a small market, but any good game will get bought by a large percentage of that market due to the lack of titles. There is far less competition, and if you develop with portability in mind it shouldn't be a big deal to dominate that 5 percent of the gaming market. People using the new Doom engine should really consider this.
IMHO OpenGL is a lot easier and more straightforward to program in.
From the makers of Return to Castle Wolfenstein!
From the makers of Quake!
I sense a pattern...
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
I'd generally agree with
your argument would be better served by not listing games that are all from the same company
but not so much with
(or at least, using engines from the same company). There's a ton of games using those engines.
Haida Manga
SDL's audio support wraps around DirectSound on Windows.
Bioware has nothing to do with NWN2.
You're more likely to be considered a dumbass for pointing that out.
I would, but not as much as the folks who modded that flamebait as "Insightful"!
Now, please excuse me, I have to take a shizzle and get back to earning my bling-bling.
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
The benefits include Programable Shaders, in particular: Shader Objects, Shader Programs, OpenGL Shading Language and changes to the Shader API.
Look, all I want to know is if I can shade something.
From an end-user point of view, I guess the number of games that use OpenGL matters. From a programming point of view, the number of engines using OpenGL would seem to matter more (to me). If the only popular games using OpenGL use the same engine, that tends to make me think that people are not fond of programming for OpenGL in general, just one person/company.. And yes, they happen to make some kickass engines, so they get used a lot.
Apart from having no relevance to OpenGL, most of the lighting examples etc on the page rely heavily on either NVs registry combiner extension or NVs 'CG' shader asm. Both of which are non-standard methods that have been depreciated for ARB standards for a while now.
What version of Open GL is in the current version of OS X (10.3.5), or how to find out?
Click and help me get an iPod?
Try:
How to convert your Windows Server 2003 to a Workstation
You might want to follow the whole guide if you want to use win2003 as your desktop machine.
Makes you kind of wonder what kinds of decisions are going on at the graphics chip companies and the game makers, and whats going on between them.
Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
Huh? 3ds max supports both DX and GL viewports.
It should be noted that the OpenGL engine in Unreal Tournament 2004 is piss poor compared to the DX engine. I imagine that future versions will scrap OpenGL altogether.
Unreal, no, quake, yes.
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Unreal's OpenGL engine is crude, and it's only really there to allow Mac and Linux clients (which aren't used nearly as much as the Windows client). On Windows, D3D is the default.
Actually, Epic has it right: they released a UT2004 server for Linux first, then built the client primarily for Windows. Play to each of its strengths.
Are you kidding?
Come on, thats no argument. There is NO linux gamers market worth mentioning, and there is NO massive linux market in the first place.
A better argument:
OpenGL is a long standing industry standard which give developers more control over the way stuff gets rendered. Its simple, straightforward and does not depend on a large, antropophagic competitor, platform owner like Microsoft.
And THATS why ID uses it. So the MS wont choke them by controlling that critical part of the API.
Not many developers have the muscle ID has to invest in remaking a lot of stuff DX already provides, but for some sizes, its worth it.
NO SIG
My Tech Posts on Twitter
Indeedy. Back in the days when I was but a measly VB coder (yes, I know I know, this was many years ago) - I actually had a fairly decent 3d program working using.... D3D. Now the D3D stuff wasn't actually supported for VB back then, there was a 3rd-party module which made interfaces with the API rather easy though (I believe it was made by some french dude, though the name long escapes me now). In the latter stages, I also incorporated some amount of OpenGL support into my renderer.
Now, even with a rather undocumented API and a non-supported module, the D3D stuff was just plain easier. In fact, it was too easy, given that I could code a 3d app in VB without truly understanding some of the more intrinsic details of how the APIs/D3D worked
Of course, the more people using it and putting up samples, etc... the more other people can pick it up.
Nowadays I've been getting more into OpenGL, though recently I've been sidetracked. Documentation is still a bit sketchy at times, but I've coded some basic GL C++ apps. Obviously, there's no D3D or DirectX in general for Linux. After I understand some more about Mesa and GL though, I'll probably move to SDL which is supposed to be similar.
The true strength that I see is that there are a lot of people willing to contribute, a lot of existing games/etc that are open-source for me to pick apart, and of course GL runs on 'nix and windows (as well as I'd assume Mac).
Fascinating. Point, but periods aren't. Just points. They're flags. To the rest of the world that the writer understands. Elementary grammar. And syntax. I just figured someone should tell you. :-)
Has any company ever tried to actually put the OS on the CD with the game?
I.e., instead of saying "Windows compatible" or "Linux compatible", just having you boot the game from the CD which loads an operating system (like a Knoppix CD) and then loads the game on top?
It seems this would appeal to companies because it would give them some consistency in the operating system setup. Of course, the OS would have to have great hardware detection ability. Also there is the hard drive issue I guess. Hmmm. . .
That might have something to do w/why it's ranked 18th right now according to www.gamespy.com/stats.
Three things really. First of all, the game that is 18th is Tribes: Veangeance, which is neither Tribes 1 nor Tribes 2. Completely different game. Secondly, Gamespy is completely incompatable with Tribes/Tribes2. Thirdly, Tribes: Veangeance is still in Beta, which is why the numbers are so low.
Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
Unreal includes both Direct3D and OpenGL renderers (as well as a software renderer). I'm talking OpenGL-exclusive games. Yes, I read the list.
what OS/X does not have is a significant share of the pc gaming market or a compatible MacBox console platform to support the development of pc games.
Excuse me, sir, but in order for your Troll Post to be compliant with OpenTroll 2.0 Standards, you will need to implement the spelling of "the" with the standard "teh." Thank You Very Much, the Mgmnt
-end of post.
At this point, DirectX is at least 4.5x better than OpenGL.
Crappy OpenGL in Epic's games is nothing new. In fact, The original Unreal and other games that used its engine, such as Deus Ex, had really crappy Direct3D code as well. It pissed me off to see computers no faster than mine run it at 75 fps with a 3dfx card while my computer ran it at less than 40 with memory issues on my TNT.
It would be cool if it didn't suck.
You get my new favorite canned response. Congratulations, you really ARE smarter than everyone else. Kill yourself.
And of course, the irony of it is (as was said in previous posts), the SDL is basically just a wrapper for DirectX on Windows.
You can use all the other DirectX stuff while using OpenGL for rendering - a number of games do this already.
There is no point to porting such a thing to Xbox because you're not going to get Microsoft to sign games that use it - it competes with XNA or whatever their new DX replacement is called. (New DirectX, same as the old DirectX.)
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
"If the only popular games using OpenGL use the same engine, that tends to make me think that people are not fond of programming for OpenGL in general, just one person/company."
Yes, but as you say they may have just simply created a kick-ass engine, in which case if you wanted to leverage OpenGL (cross-platform titles come to mind) there's less reason for others to create from scratch.
Combine that with the OpenGL-friendly Torque game engine and you've got a good pair of heavyweight tools.
From their site: "The Torque Game Engine started life as the technology behind Dynamix/Sierra/Vivendis products Tribes, Starsiege, and Tribes 2, and is an industry proven engine. It is currently being used by thousands of developers around the world with shipping titles such as Marble Blast, Orbz, Think Tanks, Tennis Critters, and the upcoming mecha game, Lore."
You could always try this, although it is stated to work with nVidia cards. A better bet would probably be this thread. I'd recommend downloading a test application to find out wether the card is 100% OpenGL-compatible (though it should be). If else, try the generic drivers.
Cheers!
Yes. id (quake, doom, etc) and I believe unreal both use it. Both are competitors, and as small of importance as portability to other operating systems such as Linux may seem to be, it is still somewhat important to them (although, I -still- haven't heard anything new about doom3 on linux)
Unreal used Glide and software only. There was no true "Open GL" option for Unreal. Unreal Tournament/2003/II may use it, I'm not sure. But the the original did not.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
3DS MAX is also a modeler primarly aimed at gaming and other lightweight work.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Yes, but id software is a major and high-profile supplier of engines. Each OpenGL-based engine they release leads to a whole host of OpenGL-supporting games.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Softimage|XSI supports opengl, d3d, and cg realtime shader modes on win32. Under linux it has support for opengl and cg shaders.
My patience is infinite, my time is not.
To a web/enterprise programmer like myself (who lately has been using Java), reading opengL tutorials kind of reminds me that no matter how good a programmer, learning an API extensively is most of the work.
:)
:)
.NET C++. Does this mean I can easily use C#? or is that a whole other ballgame? C# does pointers/references "under the hood" like java correct?
Fuck I'm just totally lost staring at openGL code
Anyone else feel inadquate ?
Love,
Zaq
P.S. I noticed the tutorial was using
Now when can I get the code burned into my laptop's onboard Trident Cyberblade 16mb world's greatest chipset? ;) mmmm... 3d.... lol
#Secret Windows Source Code, in MS C% - if (uptime >= "24 hours") then bsod() else print "Windows License Violation!"
It's great for us low-budget filmmakers too! (Have to buy older versions though. The new one is still to pricey. If only I didn't need to eat...)
That's the game source code, which is a bit different. That's the part that say this gun does this much damage, etc. It sits on top of the engine, and is the part you'd use to create mods.
The engine source code handles the rendering, physics, etc. That's the part that Carmack was talking about hopefully having open sourced by the end of the year.
You will find in some instances vendor are kind of locked into direct X. This isn't some conspiracy or anyhting but it isn't uncommon for microsoft or any technoiligy vendor to give tools away for programing and creation that only use thier version of the technoligy.
I have personaly seen this with an aplication i use. Microsoft gave them some dot net development tools that they were charging high dollars for to try to implement some dot net codes in actualt programs outside of microsofts. Of course they took the free tools as well as the free training and are now releasing expensive dotnet versions of the same stuff I had used a year ago. This is what the sales paerson told me when i was attempting to figure out if the upgrade was worth it this year or if i should wait until next year. My service acount gives me upgrades for 3 years at a time so the saleman wasn't loosing any money by telling me this. Actually he was saving me the hassle of perfomring an upgrade that didn't effect any feature i used.
It is possible that some of the other game vendors have made some arangments like this in the past rather then OpenGL being harder to program. Of course i may be wrong.
3D graphics is something that no sane developer would ever lock himself to a proprietary API like Direct3D. More and more companies use OpenGL for their games, and now with 2.0 even more will ever use it. Using OpenGL has the additional benefit of porting a game to architectures other than Windows. As for other parts of DirectX, there are various combinations that can do the job: OpenGL + SDL, OpenGL + AllegroGL + Allegro, etc.
Holy Shit!
Learn how to use 'you' and spell things correctly, you sack of shit.
--
Insert Witty Sig Here
The Quake III game source is released, but not the source to the Quake III engine. The engine controls the networking, renderering, and sound in the game. The game controls what the user "sees and hears" when the person plays the game.
Oh boy, I can't wait for a new bzflag with ummmm..... shades?
music lover since 1969
As far as I know, OpenAL falls back to DirectSound (including DirectSound3D) on Windows, unless you have Creative hardware, so I wouldn't really call it an 'alternative'.
It appears that only the specification was released. No platform implementations are availible, so its not currently possible to make and use open gl 2 applications.
People always post this crap and it's never a good idea.
Look, here's an example of something you CAN'T do with a boot disk game:
Bob: "Hey, Joe, let's play some Return to Castle Wolfenstein."
Joe: "Cool. Wanna do the voicecomm?"
Bob: "Sure. Let's use Roger Wilco, my IP's 127.0.0.1"
Joe: "Rock, see you there."
(Or whatever those wacky kids are using these days for voicecomm in games.)
Here's another little skit:
Joe: "I just bought a new ATIVidia SuperCard that has 20 times the performance of older cards!"
Bob: "Awesome! Boot up 'Super Linux Brothers' and let's see how it runs!"
Joe inserts Linux CD that boots into game.
Joe: "Screen's just black."
Bob: "Shit, must be missing the driver..."
Joe: "How the hell do you put a driver on a already-burnt CD?!? This game sucks!"
And here's a third:
Joe: "Here, try my copy of 'Super Linux Brothers.'"
Bob: "Ok."
Bob runs game.
Bob: "These controls are really awkward."
Joe: "I know, it took me like three hours to get controls I liked... just use my control set."
Bob: "Where is it?"
Joe: "Shit, it's saved on my HD at home! I forgot to bring it! Goddamned."
I hope I've demonstrated that having a boot disk for a game is a BAD idea, and why nobody will buy a game distributed that way. There's a reason we haven't done that since the 80s, you know.
Comment of the year
SDL only uses the parts of DirectX that generally don't overlap with OpenGL, to which SDL hands off the remainder of the work.
DNA just wants to be free...
Now doom3 will be postponed while they make it support OpenGL 2.0 on linux to make it own for us more than windows >:D
-DaMouse
Many of these features where present in some form in previous versions of the standard, albiet as extensions. The main change is that these features have been promoted from extensions to the core.
There are perhaps some other fairly minor differences as well, but by and large, I'd expect that for those cards that already supported those extensions, it's just a matter of the vendors updating the drivers.
IIRC, there have also been draft versions of the 2.0 spec for a while, or at least the various major pieces. And seeing as how all of the major hardware vendors have representatives on the ARB, none of the final 2.0 spec should be coming as a suprise to any of them.
GL ide can be called "miniGL", its real similar to OpenGL while those times opengl was luxury for those P1, P2 pcs...
One word: portability
Yeah... that's why we see all those OpenGL games running on and being sold for all those platforms that have OpenGL on them now...
There are C# bindings to OpenGL but as with any P/Invoking, you'll take a decent speed hit every time you call one of it's functions. Afaik DirectX.NET is entirely managed so you don't get the speed hit (think I saw this on MSDN TV).
On Linux it makes sense to hook into X extensions to negotiate screen res, ALSA / OSS for the sound and so on.
Whatever is going on underneath should be made as irrelevant as possible as far as the game is concerned. Abstraction protects the game from being tied to a particular OS in the same way that the NSPR prevents Mozilla being tied to windows. It doesn't mean platform specific code is done away with completely, but the more that isn't, the easier it is to port.
After all, people like EA simultaneously release their games on 3 or 4 major platforms at once. I'm guessing they can do this because they have written their own cross-platform APIs for doing a lot of stuff - loading models, playing music, menus and whatnot in an abstract fashion. All we're proposing is an non-proprietary library that has building blocks for doing the same. Microsoft can't dictate that you not use it any more than they can dictate EA dumps theirs.
Now it's time to wait for India's code monkeys to implement OpenGL 2. This is a true example of outsourcing producing higher level offerings. If it wasn't for the Indian code monkey, we wouldn't have a spec called OpenGL 2. All the spec writers would be programming, leading to a bunch of different implementations of software to perform shading. Now all we do is write a spec, wait a few months, and automatically have full implementations for every different microchip coming out of Taiwan.
According to Doom3portal.comLinux Doom 3 server will be released soon after the first patch (that has just gone beta). We are looking at a few weeks or a month hopefully.
This is not the game just the dedicated server though. Some of the graphic effects (heat ripples etc.) require a DX9 video card so this is unlikely to work at all under Linux.
What post? The one you're carrying inside your rusty innards!
Not really - they were asking whether hardware accelaration in general was worth bothering with, since their software implementations were far faster. DX really didn't come into the equation until DX8 was released. OpenGL has never really featured as a serious commerical game development API. Developers went from either custom coded or Renderware-based engines, straight to the DX series of APIs. id software is really the only standout amongst the crowd of developing professional quality games using OpenGL. (lots of simple amateur games, but they aren't the sort that cause major press releases to be issued all over the place when they go gold)
Life is complete only for brief intervals in between toys or projects -- John Dalton
Compared to modeling for a movie? Yes it is. Games have much less demanding geometry, rather simple shaders, and have most effects done in the engine rather than in the modeler. 3D Studio is an excellent program, but it's optimized for this sort of work (eg: good polygon reduction tools), rather than for more quality-intensive work.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Anyone know when MesaGL will have OpenGL 2.0 support?
APIs are indeed most of the work. Learning a language completely is simple (unless it's perl, and no, that's not a flamebait), but it's the APIs that make you an effective coder. When I first started web-coding, I knew next to nothing. It took me a while to find my way around things in perl (the Camel book helped). I'm pretty sure if tomorrow I need to do a Java Enterprise project, I'll be messing about for a couple of weeks in finding my way. Unfortunatly this is a fact that many managers seem to forget.
When I first read the openGL API I wanted to run to the bookstore and get lots of books on the subject.
When I thought about it for a while, I wanted to run to the bookstore and get lots of math books teaching me the skills I need to do things.
When I got a girlfriend, I gave up on the "running to the bookstore for knowledge" and started thinking about other things.
When said girlfriend and I broke up, I was preparing for endterms.
When I got a job, I thought "I'll have time in the evenings to learn new stuff".
When I was working for 3 months I discovered that I really didn't want to code at home anymore.
When they fired me (yesterday) I thought "I wish I'd spent some time learning openGL."
Yeah, I used to feel the same way about OpenGL, but I discovered that using SDL as a wrapper for OpenGL makes it a little more tolerable for those used to using standard C++. You know, like the kind that uses int main() and not int WinMain().
Also, a real good place to learn OpenGL is http://nehe.gamedev.net/. It has tutorials that cover everything from drawing your first polygon to using pixel shaders. Also, most of their examples are available in a wide variety of programming languages and platform-specific code.
Microsoft always makes it hard to keep backward-compatibility. Just look at how the office documents are stored. It's how they get there money: by forcign upgrades of their software. the OpenGL API/specification, however is-correct me if I'm wrong, please-not owned by a single monopolistic company, and it evolves as a whole, not simply by changing the API every version. (Granted, X 9 did have DX 8.0/8.1 backward-compatibility, iirc.)
I just realized I put my webhost in a position to be /.-ed. Oops :-|
IIRC, the OpenGL engine was developed after Unreal was already out. The core was optimized for DirectX, so slapping on an OpenGL layer would have had to have been inefficient, at best.
Since Linux is becoming increasingly relevant, I suspect the next Unreal engine will be designed from the get-go to support OpenGL. Or at least be designed with enough flexibility that either API will work well.
tasks(723) drafts(105) languages(484) examples(29106)
Some of the graphic effects (heat ripples etc.) require a DX9 video card so this is unlikely to work at all under Linux.
What are you talking about? The NVIDIA Linux drivers support the same OpenGL extensions as the Windows drivers, and they support the same set of GPUs - right up to the GeForce 6800. Why would an OpenGL-based game look any different between the two?
So the simple way to understand OpenGL code is to think of a really big state machine. Each call just modifies the currently existing state. The state persists until the state is changed - even to the point of maintaining it between rendered frames.
If you want Java bindings for OpenGL, there's two major projects.
JOGL, which is the basis for the formal bindings in JSR 231.
LWJGL which is a community driven project and somewhat akin to DirectX in that it also merges audio and input device APIs as well.
If you need some tutorials to get started, check out http://opengl.j3d.org in a couple of weeks when it gets officially opened and has lots of beginner tutorials to play with.
After that, the OpenGL Red Book is your friend.
Life is complete only for brief intervals in between toys or projects -- John Dalton
Interest into porting to Linux is slowly becoming more popular between game makers, mostly because if you do it right for the windows port in the first place, it isn't as difficult as it might seem to port to Linux, and it helps open up a small new (starved?) market.
Linux users are not a new gaming market, they are largely already customers who dual boot or emulate. Switching these people from Win32 to Linux is actually a loss, no new sale but additional expenses. The new gaming market only consists of those few who refuse to run anything other than a native Linux version.
Linux does make sense for game servers and these game servers are the reason many of the game clients exist. If Linux game servers were not needed the list of native Linux games would be much shorter.
Not only is there 8.0/8.1 compatability, but you can use versions as early as 3. I see alot of people complaining that they change the API but it's not really that big of a deal. You can stick with the older version if you want. The change from 8.0/8.1 to 9.0 was not even very big API wise. You just need to change a couple calls and your done. (For ex you call SetFVF instead of SetVertexShader for fixed function pipeline)
-]Phreak Out[-
Is this a troll? Maybe you're sincere, if so please explain. I have windowsxp and linux boxes, the game feels much better on linux than in windows. What's "piss poor" about it?
Samsung took back my unlocked bootloader because Google wants me to rent movies. They're both evil.
Let the *GAMES* begin!!!
;)
(OpenGl, of course)
Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
And the political pissing contest goes on and on and on. Wer zuspät kommt, den bestraft das Leben, he woho is late gets punished by life ....
Honestly, they are too late..
Which makes it a crossplatform wrapper around the actual functionality, rather than something like OpenGL, which provides the actual functionality (as opposed to OpenGL wrapping around Direct3D on Windows, and QuickDraw3D on MacOS, etc).
See the date? August 10, 2004...
Or, maybe closer to the truth, a concept.
But I'm willing to bet my life on this: It was created by African American culture as a joke, mostly because they knew that once whitey came around to copying it just like we copy just about everything else they do, we'd look stupider than ever.
And it's worked. Beautifizzily.
--------
Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...
What about SDL?
What about it? It's a great idea.
But. It can't really compete. SDL is "Simple", and doesn't provide the same amount of functionality.
Also, SDL doesn't seem to be going anywhere. The 2.0 version has been 'in the works' for years now..
(I've written a bunch of posts on this.. The lack of good crossplatform graphics API:s, both for 2D and 3D is one of my pet peeves, and IMHO a major barrier to Linux on the desktop.)
>> Can OpenGL ever match DX in popularity among developers?
> One word: portability
One word: monopoly
Free Gamer - Free games list and commentary
Glad you decided to drop in.
Here is the official specifications of the OpenGL 2.0 in PDF format.
Creative Demolition
I can't help but chuckle that this phrase comes from someone who's originality begins and ends with choosing which pop star to use as their nick. That someone who chose "Puff Daddy" has the balls to call me out will have me chuckling for days.
Thank you, sir. Your idiocy is the stuff of legends, and a model to citizens everywhere.
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
You mean to say we won't have to play ASCII TTYQuake anymore?
Yep, and have a default state that is expected by everything (matrixmode = modelview, culled faces on or off, depthmask etc) change it if you need to but put it back when you're done. PushMatrix() then PopMatrix() help to get back to the original state. Easy.
The hard stuff with 3d is the maths & knowlege, not the API....
I'll have one
raindog @ digiverse.net
this list is outdated, it lacks for example GTA 3 and GTA:VC
Go grab those torrents.
Sure I'll take one...
notamac99 @ yahoo.com
Slightly suspect email address there. Ebay gmail invite collector maybe...?
Would I be the fifth? If so, really appreciated. :)
senorchris (at) hotmail.com
Hey
I'd love one! Hope you still have some invites. My address is
lrandall * bluebottle.com
Thanks
-Luke
From the makers of Return to Castle Wolfenstein!
Call of Duty wasn't made by those folks... but the CoD:United Offensive expansion (releasing next week) is.
Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
Because certain effects will not show up if you run it on a non DX9 compatible card. These effects have nothing to do with OpenGL.
What post? The one you're carrying inside your rusty innards!
In the tradition of the "color books" of OpenGL (red, blue), there's the "orange" book, called the OpenGL Shading Language
Doesn't discreet use Blizzard's cinematics as examples of work done with 3ds max?
But "you" is 200% harder to type out than "u" is... am... are...
Crap.
Why should it go anywhere? It's good enough, and that's the reason version 2.0 is not due any time soon. Insufficient demand.
./lxnt
Loki is a bad example, yet I understand why people use it. It is the most well known. But that doesn't make it a good example. I purchased many loki games. I spent some time on the newsgroups, both giving and recieving help. When loki went down the tubes, at first, I mourned the loss of the company. Then I found out what really happened.
It appears to me that Scott Draeker really mishandled the assets of the company, taking out loans that he could not pay back, and putting the money into his personal accounts. Just because one person mishandled the assets of the company doesn't mean that their product was not selling. In most cases, when a business goes under, it is because of a bad product. In this case, I believe that it is because of corruption. It is not fair to use the example of Loki as a reason that selling Linux games would not work, however, life isn't fair.
As an aside, I have looked at GarageGames, but I do not buy their games, as they are not the type that I play. It seems that they are, for the most part, simple puzzle games, which do not appeal to me.
warning: This post is likely to contain gobs of dripping sarcasm. Consume at your own risk.