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Trouble for Tivo and NetFlix Partnership?
lucabrasi999 writes "Well, things may not not be as good for the potential joining up of Netflix and Tivo as once thought. Herb Greenberg, of CBS Marketwatch has a commentary which hints that this deal may not be as great as it once appeared. Why? In short, distribution rights. It appears that Netflix may not legally distribute all of the movies in it's library via Tivo. As a side note, Netflix may also be feeling some economic pressure. It now forces all cancellations occur by phone, making it more difficult to cancel because of a long hold time."
When I called to cancel one of my units about two weeks ago, my hold time was approximately 4 minutes. That is not unreasonable.
Another example of copyright not stifling innovation.
Oh, and forced cancellations by phone are teh suck.
Netflix now forces all cancellations occur by phone
Could some inspiring Business Major retort the Uniform Consumer Rights for us? Off the top of my head, which will not be a good verbatim translation, it states that:
A cancellation of an order must be accepted as in the method original ordered in or in a manner that is faster in speed. Meaning that if signed up electronically than they have to accept an electronic cancellation or any means that would be faster. Like if I signed up via mail than if they have a means of electronic cancellation than they have to accept that too all the while accepting the mail as a cancellation method.
It now forces all cancellations occur by phone, making it more difficult to cancel because of a long hold time.
Wish someone would force all submissions occur after proofreading...
With all the crap Tivo and similar services are getting from the monopolies, I'm not surprised that any merger or buyout would run into problems.
"It's not stealing if you don't get caught!"
Not really all that interested in NetFlix or TiVo.
Or iTunes.
You all talk a good game about how much you hate the MPAA and RIAA, but when it comes right down to it, you're the ones lining up around the block for "innovative" new ways to give them some more money, aren't you?
How much money have you given Apple and the RIAA for songs you already bought on CD, tape or LP?
Suckas. Over the air radio and TV is still freeee as in look at all the money I didn't spend today.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
I've heard good things about NetFlix in general. Does anyone have experiance with any of the other "dvd by mail" clones, like Blockbuster, etc?
I had Netflix for a few months earlier this year, I loved the service, and when I decided to cancel for financial reasons, it was very easy. I just hopped online, and clicked a link. Then they told me I had 7 days to return my three movies, and we were done.
For this exact reason, I planned on signing up again in the near future. But if they are going down the road of AOL, where you can only cancel by phone, after long waits and pushy sales reps, I may just go try Blockbuster Online instead, and see how it fares.
Boy, I sure am glad that copyright laws have so encouraged the creation of this wonderful science.
:(
Oh wait...
Nevermind
no
Yes, I'd like to cancel
Really, why?
Don't want it.
But have you seen our super new optimized enhanced keyword system?
Yes, don't like it.
What didn't you like?
I just want to cancel.
We're just trying to determine why you were unsatisfied
Perhaps it's things like this that make me unsatisfied.
What exactly do you not like about the cancellation process?
JUST CANCEL ME!!!!!
It now forces all cancellations occur by phone, making it more difficult to cancel because of a long hold time."
As a Netflix subscriber, I have a "Cancel Your Membership" button on my account page...
-Chris
1) Blockbuster is in the market. Same 3 movies at a time, same postage paid, ~$3 less a month plus coupons for two free movie rentals a month. BB has a larger library plus their instore stock.
2) WalMart has also gotten into the game. Also cheaper than Netflix, I expect them to be the 'low cost' option by cutting their prices below BlockBusters.
3) Netflix recently changed their price (increased it) while making postage free. The result is the join-and-forget customers who are a the best type of customer for them will now be prompted to cancel, leaving them with the habitual heavy renters who make the free postage an expensive decision.
4) The clock is ticking against their entire business model as digital media delivery speeds accelerate.
A positive sign is that they recognize #4 and were making an attempt to bridge the gap with Tivo. Unfortunately, it can probably be done better by TW and other cable providers.
Still, I wish them the best of luck.
Long hold times at profitable companies are balancing their books on your free labor. Customer service is a collaboration between customers and the service providers. It's impossible to predict exactly the number of callers in a given hour of business, so avoiding any holding by callers means having extra answerers available. Since most problems are handled within a script by otherwise untrained answerers, a surplus of answerers is a simple expense at an outsourced call center, standing by with multiple companies' scripts at the ready. When callers don't immediately get an answerer, that's revenue not spent on the call center. Without the call center expense, that's profit. The time we wait on hold is zero productivity labor time spent by the customer that is counted as profit by the nonanswering company.
--
make install -not war
how NetFlix was going to be allowed to basically do P2P distribution of movies... even if it was completely secure and paid for. The Publishing houses (Disney, Paramount, Choam, Fox) go to great lengths to control their content viability. Especially Disney which cycles content in and out of the market to keep demand as high as possible. A download library like Netflix would take alot of that power to create market-hype out of the hands of the publishers.
(Though I still think it's a cool idea and properly setup could work around those concerns...)
I just canceled netflix a week ago and I was able to do it online. without a problem.
I have been using Netflix for over a year now and have been very pleased with their selection and service. But recently I noticed that Blockbuster is offering a better deal than Netflix. Netflix offers 3 DVDs out at a time for $22. Blockbuster offers 3 DVDs out at a time plus 2 in store rentals a month for $20. There are times that I still go into the store and rent movies so those 2 in store rentals would be nice.
Has anyone used Blockbuster yet? Netflix is very fast in turning around returns and I would rather give my money to them, but if Blockbuster can match their service I might give them a try.
How is getting movies on your Tivo different than going to blockbuster or something? You are still paying the same ammount of money, it's just more convinent for the customer.
Or maybe, this is a huge government conspiricy, to make people use gas to drive to the store, thus making more money!
The cancel-by-phone only rule must be pretty new, because I cancelled my Netflix subscription *yesterday* (9/8) using the web interface. Took all of two clicks.
When they pry the remote out of my cold, dead hands.
...on purpose.
If you ever get an email asking how long it took for you to get a specific movie, *never* under any circumstances tell them you received it early. They will stall shipment of future movies to make sure you're not getting more than they think you should get per month. They've been getting worse and worse about this.
-Randy
He's right. You click on the "Your Account" link, which takes you to a page that lists your current rental status and tells you your current package, i.e. "Three At a Time Plan." Next to that are two links, one that says "Change" and another that says "Cancel." If you click "Cancel," the first bulletpoint on the next page reads, "Cancellation will be effective immediately." All you need to do is check the "I understand and agree" box and submit the form. Who told you that you needed to call by phone?
Breakfast served all day!
If they're billing my credit card, and I want to cancel, and they make me jump through unreasonable hoops, I just won't. My credit card company will happily take my call and my instructions that any charges from Netflix are fraudulent because I have notified them in writing or using any means I choose that I am no longer a subscriber to their service. Then if Netflix wants to make a big deal about it, I'll bet they'll take the call from my credit card company.
Secession is the right of all sentient beings.
I was able to cancel netflix online just two days ago.
How to cancel, quick:
Tell the first person you speak to that you are cancelling your service immediately, and that you have informed your credit card company to refuse all future charges. It's up to them whether they want to update their systems with the cancellation now, or spend 3 months trying to contact you in hopes that it was some kind of mistake, while you continue to use the service.
I can't find it now, but Walmart's site specifically stated that you would be charged for any DVDs lost in the mail. Where as Netflix absorbs that cost.
And as for Netflix, you can still cancel and restart your membership online.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Lois, this isn't my Batman glass. - Peter
Right from netflix website... Can I cancel anytime?
Absolutely. You can easily cancel your membership anytime, online, 24 hours a day. There are no cancellation fees. To avoid being charged after your trial, simply cancel your account before the trial ends. No clue what that guy is talking about...
How the hell does this website get away with it then. I'm actually planning on making my own within a week, and charging 1$/download... Just like a video rental store. www.geocities.com/James_Sager_PA
God spoke to me.
. .
No, seriously.
The only acceptable defense of scientific results is to say that they were the product of the Scientific Method.
I just logged onto my account and the complete online cancellation page was still there. One click and I could have closed my account.
Whatever it was you took, would you mind sharing?
1) Only s-video video output
2) Only stereo audio output
I rent movies because I can view them using the DVI output of my DVD player and the optical audio output to the 5.1 reciever. The Tivo is not quality audio or video capable, so I'd never use this service in the first place.
I believe it. I once interviewed a video store owner for a college project many years ago and he made most of his money renting out pr0n. Some lonely wanker would rent out a new release with his favorite starlett and keep it for a week, regardless of all the late fees built up (which wouldn't apply with Netflix rentals).
Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
This is actually true.
I worked for the number one pay-per-view provider and watched it happen there. For the first few years they were very holier-than-thou about anything over an R rating.
But then revenues started to slip and they introduced "tasteful late-night entertainment." Once they saw what kind cash rolls in from that they couldn't get "Son of Donkey Show" on the air fast enough.
Nobody smut-peddles better than major media conglomorates.
Here's a company that has peer-to-peer television network platform. See their press release.
For everyone wonder why you would want to download instead of getting in the mail is the incredible Tivo interface. I hate trying to rewind or jump forward on a DVD, and that is after waiting through the "clever" menu mini-movie.
As for the copyright problem, this is the first thing I thought of when I heard about the partnership. Of course Netflix just can't copy DVDs and make them available for download unless they are willing to redo every contract they have with ever motion picture producer.
I would love to see this available, especially with the terrible selection of CinemaNow.com but I am not holding my breath.
If you buy a movie, you have the rights to rent it at a store. If you own a movie, why can't you rent it over the internet? Its the same thing.
God spoke to me.
http://www.adultdvdempire.com has links to it I believe.
I'm not gonna double check as I'm at work ;)
I never understood the "netflix" philosophy. With Walmart and Hastings offering used DVD's for $5-10 and Djangos offering used DVD's online with a HUGE selection, why would anyone pay $20+ a month to "borrow" movies. Just buy them and be done with it. It's as cheap as renting, and you build up a DVD library that you actually OWN.
But I have noticed netflix is starting to slowdown in response time. My turnaround time with them is generally 1-2 days - sometimes it's just a few hours (get it in the mail, rip it to my hd, stuff it back in the post office box). For a while there I could get three new movies every week quite reliably, but now they've started playing games: I'm sure the movies don't take any longer to come and go, but instead of three days each way it's becoming four and five and even six days from the time I send in my movies until I see the next "arriving soon" notices in my email. At this rate I'm going from "about 12 movies a month" for $23 to maybe 9 and possibly as few as six. Given that I mostly rent foreign and old scifi releases (the 99 cent stuff at most stores) this is not a very good deal.
I hate the long drive and the selection isn't nearly as good at the "local" (40 miles) movie gallery, but I can rent five movies there for five days for only about six bucks - and two disc sets don't count as two discs, but one rental. That's half the netflix rate just for the inconvenience of stopping off at the rental place twice a week.
I hope to see wal-mart fire up the competition soon. Competition is a good thing :)
The great part was being able to have 4 movies sitting in my living room waiting for me to watch them (for $14.95), and I did not have to pay anything extra to keep them there.
The turnaround was fast, and in the begining, you could go online and click that you were sending it back, and they would send you a new one that day. So turnaround could be as short as two days.
Then they got popular, and the delay became 6 days for a new flick, then they eliminated the "click and get a new movie" and made it.. "You get a new one when we get your old one back".
It got hard to view 4 movies a month, and at that rate, I said ferget it!
I hear the service is now better. but the rate is higher and the movies are fewer.
Not worth it in my opinion....
Netflix used to have a 'mature' section that had some porn in it. Girls Gone Wild videos, Penthouse videos, etc. Nothing hard core.
"People that quote themselves in their signatures bother me" - athakur999
Hmmm. Would that mean that the Very Long Wait would get in the way of acquiring the latest Jenna Jameson flick too? Doh!
I canceled netflix two years ago and they required calling. no news there.
I canceled my Tivo subscript yesterday and they required a call too.
Unless you are the type of person that can watch a movie every other day it doesnt make sense.
At first I thought great service.
But after about a couple months you realize there arent that many movies you NEED to see. And if my local video store has the latest DVD's in stock, its 10 minutes away, and only costs me $2.00 a night thats actually a better deal. So instead of spending my 21.xx a month I am back to 4.00 a month.
I suppose its good for those people that rent everything and rip and burn, similar to the people that used to tape every VHS rental they rented and never watched again as they amassed the wall of VHS tapes that no one could borrow because they were going to happen to watch the exact movie you wanted to borrow that night.
1. When Netflix receives a disc, more often than not they ship the next disc the same day. Look at your queue page or read your e-mail. The date they sent the disc is right there. You can compare the date you got it with that date and know that that was the post office transit time. On occasion, they fill your order by shipping you a disc from another hub. When that happens, it takes an extra day, plus whatever extra time the postal service takes. They do this to shift inventory to match a demand shift. When it happens, your queue page keeps you informed.
2. You can still cancel online. Any suggestions that you can't are nonsense.
3. Negotiating rights will be part of any electronic distribution venture, regardless of what companies are involved. Everybody in the business knows this. Nobody would be proceeding with any ventures of this sort if they didn't have a plan for it.
4. Your answer to a delivery survey does not affect your account in any way. Others have speculated that the rate at which you turn discs around has an effect, but see #1 above. They ask about delivery time so they can figure out when and where they need to open a new shipping hub.
"For a while there I could get three new movies every week quite reliably, but now they've started playing games: I'm sure the movies don't take any longer to come and go, but instead of three days each way it's becoming four and five and even six days from the time I send in my movies until I see the next "arriving soon" notices in my email. At this rate I'm going from "about 12 movies a month" for $23 to maybe 9 and possibly as few as six."
There is experimental evidence that suggests Netflix progressively slows down their service to you when you rent more and more movies from them.
---------
There is inferior bacteria on the interior of your posterior.
dumbass
I emailed him about this and received in reply:
Good catch. They changed it back since last week. Too bad the company won't
take my calls! Wonder why they changed it back! Tell me that. Herb
Then, 2 years later, they sent me a new card, saying my old one expired. They never canceled it at all. Then when I called to cancel it again, they went through the same routine. I started yelling obscenely at the poor guy and finally he canceled my credit card.
Ceci n'est pas une sig.
:wq!
I don't know about you, but a shelf covered with 520 DVDs in white boxes with the name written on them in black marker is not a very impressive or nice-looking DVD collection to me.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
I generally have 3 day turnaround.. Return the movie monday and have a new on wednesday. I don't know how they do it, but they do.
:)
I'm assuming its because they have distribution centers strategically located and that the postal service is well aware of the mail
You cite Herb Greenberg as a source as if he was a reliable source!
l e19.htm
Herb is nothing more than a mouthpiece for various short selling hedge funds. He typically knows nothing about the companies he writes about, but follows the scripts provided by his hedge fund masters.
Look at this link which was created when Herb worked for his previous employer, TheStreet.com:
http://www.webspawner.com/users/rockerswine/
Note the connections mentioned in the above article between TheStreet.com and various hedge funds.
One or more of these hedge funds are probably short one or both NetFlix and Tivo, which means they have sold them short, which means they expect their stock prices to fall. It should be emphasized that short sellers make money only if the prices of stocks sold short fall.
Articles like this are intended to help the stock price collapse along. Herb is either a willing co-conspirator or a hapless dupe, nothing more! The overall goal is stock market manipulation!!!
It may well be that there are faults with the business plans of either NetFlix or Tivo or both, but this is not what Herb is about. Herb will trash any company, even if its business plan is flawless and it is growing spectacularly. All it takes is a call from his hedge fund "buddies"!
The moral is, take any words out of the mouth of Herb with a giant grain of salt!
P.S.
More background on some of the hedge funds that may be involved here:
http://www.nysscpa.org/home/2003/0103/4week/artic
Why the fuck would you cancel Discover? If you pay your balance every month, it's great. I use it for everything I possibly can - gas, food, large purchases, small stuff, whatever. Then it's 1% cash back bonus city. Every expense other than a few bills or the rare store that doesn't take it. Sure, 1% isn't great, but couple grand in living expenses each month translates into a few hundred bucks a year. What's not to like?
Now, if you carry a balance and pay some ridiculous rate, you're a fucking moron. Anyone who does that should immediately cancel all credit cards and never get another one.
A la Blockbuster and/or Hollywood Video
Well, here's the thing. I do carry a balance -- my Visa rate is lower than the cost of personal loans and I put my laptop on it. But I realized that my easily accessible revolving credit, thanks to both the Visa and the Discover, was well over $20,000. Meaning I looked bloated on paper and if god forbid something happened to my cards, I'd have to fight with two companies over a huge sum. I had to cancel one or the other, the Discover had a bigger rate, was acceptable at fewer places and would not let me lower my available credit below $5000, so I had to drop it.
I replaced it with a nice $2000 limit AmEx Blue card (for auto emergencies). The card has a super low rate, but really I got it because I am impressed by shiny objects. And that hologram sure is shiny.
Hey freaks: now you're ju
It now forces all cancellations occur by phone, making it more difficult to cancel because of a long hold time.
THIS IS LIBEL.
PLEASE REMOVE IMMEDIATELY.
CHECK ALL THE OTHER COMMENTS FOR VERIFICATION.
THANK YOU IN ADVANCE.
Signed : a self appointed do-gooder who used the service in question, loved it, and left with no problem.
Interesting info about the netflix policies. Still I'll stick with them until I get my UFO, space1999, Lost in Space and Twin Peaks sets completed... that is, unless somone else with a better price picks up on these offerings.
Mod the parent up, this is good stuff. You should probably post it on the Yahoo and Fool investment boards as well.
I have an MBNA Ebay Mastercard. Every month I get 1% back in Ebay money. It's not cash back, but it's almost as useful. And everybody takes Mastercard.
On a side note, Discover is the worst about hounding people for late payments. Someone living with me on a temporary basis called Discover from my house. They collected my number from their caller id. Then they called me THREE TIMES A DAY looking for him after he'd moved out, wanting their money. Never mind how many times I told them he don't live here anymore, leave me alone.
I do this all the time also with Netflix, and have actually gotten nice emails from their service people about it.
I had RedOctane for a month once (Game Rentals), and I got yelled at in an email and asked to pay extra because they were having to pay more for postage. I immediately called them up and made them cancel my account and pro-rate the rest of the month back.
RedOctane's game rental service is terrible.. not just because of that, but when I signed up.. the first 20 games I put on the queue were all "long wait".. in the 3 weeks I had it, the only games I could get where ones that were like a year+ old.
-- Jinsaku
Well... devils' advocate, it is expensive to cover postage on those (A CD or DVD costs $.60 to mail), but you make a point, their act of being particularly nasty over email is a spectacularly good way to lose customers. Hope you reminded them of this.
This sig no verb.