Slashdot Mirror
Auto Accident at SANE Conference Kills One
Several people have submitted news from SANE 2004 that a car crash involving several Free Software developers has killed one and injured two others. Richard Stallman was in the car earlier but apparently had been dropped off prior to the accident.
First Assasination Attempt?
What do you expect....
http://www.freebsd.org
oops I mean first post
was the car's onboard navigation system running windows? apparently...
Who cares?
MS want's to kill OOS DEVELOPERS
Bill Gates was spotted leaving the area of the SANE conference...
Microsoft developers driving a black car ran them off a cliff.
And when it does load, what the fuck?
I've seen several posts recently where people complain about having "infinite" Meta-Mod points. Almost like it's a burden.
... remove bad moderators from the M1 eligibility pool."
It most certainly is not. It is a gift to patient, karma-whoring trolls. Read the Meta-Mod FAQ.
Say you encounter a typical "OMG BILL GATES IS TEH SATAN!" post by, say, circletimessquare. It's been duly modded up as "Insightful" by some unknown editor or slashbot. Why not Meta-Mod that as "unfair"? Sure, you won't have any significant effect on either the poster's karma or the person who modded them up, but you will "help
Similarly, suppose you encounter a post by a troll seething with racism and hatred. It's been duly modded down as "Troll" or "Flamebait". This too is "unfair"! That post increased the noise, and as such was very valuable. It belongs in +2 territory with something by Perens, surely! Whoever modded that down should be removed from the moderation eligibility pool, post haste!
(Note that you don't have to support the racist shite in the post. The poster probably doesn't either; he's just doing it for the reaction.)
This is the same thing that happens to positive-karma troll accounts when they upmod a troll. They're found out in Meta-Mod, and lose their ability to moderate.
It's time the trolls use the same weapons as the slashbots! If you moderate, use "-1 Overrated" since those don't get Meta-Modded. And Meta-Mod whenever you get the chance! I mark almost everything as "unfair", though I occasionally see a very obvious troll being upmodded, which I mark as "fair" or leave alone.
Either that, or just have fun. Whichever.
---------
but with all seriousness, this sucks. Thoughts with family and friends.
My deepest sympathy to the family and friends of the loved one they lost.
You dirty GNU/Hippies can't handle the truth!
Car accident details
There have been a bunch of rumours about a car accident involving some free software folks today. Since there seems to be no central place for all information I am trying to gather all information here.
If you have any other information please drop me an email at wichert@wiggy.net
All mentioned times are in CEST (UTC +0200).
-
There has been a car accident returning from a trip to bring Richard
Stallman (RMS) from
SANE 2004 to Paris.
(confirmed by several sources)
-
they collided with a truck which merged onto their lane while
driving in fog (unconfirmed)
-
Exact time of the accident is unknown. It was on the
morning of September 30th before 09:00.
-
Richard Stallman was dropped off in Paris and no longer in the car
(confirmed by Rop and Richard).
-
At the time of the accident Hans Bakker (mclightje),
Edwin Hermans (madeddie), and
Sebastian S. (webmind) were in the car. (confirmed).
-
The car belongs to Rop Gonggrijp, who lent it to the travelers.
RMS was staying with Rop during SANE. (confirmed by Rop)
-
Hans Bakker (photo,
homepage)
did not survive the crash. (confirmed by girlfriend)
-
Edwin Hermans has a broken hip and has been transfered to a different
hospital for surgery. Sebastian is (or was by now) in surgery for
broken bones but is not in critical condition.
Bad information-
This Yahoo
France accident report is from another accident which occured
later and the car was traveling in the wrong direction
PressAh yes. Get ready for all the "You may not have heard, but Richard Stallman has passed on..." jokes... Please don't beat me.
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
Now it's killed their server too...
That sucks terribly. Remember, if anyone asks, Billy did it.
Bill Gates could have been in the car. Or Steve Ballmer but he wouldn't have died, he's padded like the Michelin man.
..and the first 3 posts I see are jokes about it.
I'd like to send condolences to Mr. Bakker's family and friends for their loss, and hope the others recover quickly.
Now post a story I can make fun of, quick!!!
I have lost a friend today, in a car crash, and had to see a "At 220Mph blahblahblah" SUN ad under the article about his demise on /. here....
Looks like the pidgeon got /dev/null
Stupid dictator coddling europhippies.
I see a new movie similar to Swordfish coming up. Of course, it would be in an "Open" format and free for everyone.
Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
Shit. I know one of those guys. It's messed up to read something like that on /.
makes a big difference
Richard Stallman was in the car earlier but apparently had been dropped off prior to the accident.
I can't tell if you're thankful or disappointed...
either way I laughed...
Blessed be he who reads this post, Cursed be he who tells my boss.
Condolances to the family and friends of the individual killed. Good luck on a quick recovery to the injured individuals.
/. crowd that needs to try making a joke out of it (Gates/MS jokes), try and imagine if the individual who died was your father, or brother. If you can still make a joke about it, you're sick.
It's always sad when people die, but when they're connected to you in some way (even an abstract way), it hits a little harder. Any Christians (or other faiths, for that matter) should say a quick prayer for everyone involved.
As for the
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. --Winston Churchill
... and he was wearing a black rose on his Tux. Surely, this means he knew of his death.
RMS is dead. Long live Open Sores!
Yesterday I was demonstrating on the dam square in Amsterdam with some of the people involved. I want to express my deepest respect...
http://www.wiggy.net.nyud.net:8090/tmp/accident/
It's really very sad and depressing to find that the first ten or fifteen comments of this article (yes, I browse at -1 level) are all offtopic and attempts at first post.
My deepest sympathies to the family of that person killed.
This is very sad and my sympathy goes out to the family but I don't understand why this is news? Were these important people or people I should of heard of? I'm not trying to sound trollish, I genuinely don't understand why this is news or what influence these people have as to why we should mourn them. Could someone enlighten me?
I just heard some sad news on talk web site Slashdot. Communist utopian horror/sci-fi writer Richard "Menshevik" Stallman was found dead 6000 miles away from his MIT bachelor pad this morning. There were loads more details. There weren't any more details. I'm sure everyone in the Slashdot community will miss him - even if you didn't enjoy his work, there's no denying his contributions to a generation of young, angry, "progressive" single men. Truly a Soviet icon.
I was thinking about suggesting Hans' girlfriend would be looking for s strong shoulder to cry on but it's not funny.
I'd like to tell that all my sympathy goes to his friends and family.
Trolling using another account since 2005.
There have been a bunch of rumours about a car accident involving
some free software folks today. Since there seems to be no central place
for all information I am trying to gather all information here.
If you have any other information please drop me an email
at wichert at wiggy dot net
All mentioned times are in CEST (UTC +0200).
* There has been a car accident returning from a trip to bring Richard
Stallman (RMS) from
SANE 2004 to Paris.
(confirmed by several sources)
* they collided with a truck which merged onto their lane while
driving in fog (unconfirmed)
* Exact time of the accident is unknown. It was on the
morning of September 30th before 09:00.
* Richard Stallman was dropped off in Paris and no longer in the car
(confirmed by Rop and Richard).
* At the time of the accident Hans Bakker (mclightje),
Edwin Hermans (madeddie), and
Sebastian S. (webmind) were in the car. (confirmed).
* The car belongs to Rop Gonggrijp, who lent it to the travelers.
RMS was staying with Rop during SANE. (confirmed by Rop)
* Hans Bakker (photo,
homepage)
did not survive the crash. (confirmed by girlfriend)
* Edwin Hermans has a broken hip and has been transfered to a different
Translation:hospital for surgery. Sebastian is (or was by now) in surgery for
broken bones but is not in critical condition.
* This appears to be the traffic report for the accident, as taken
infotraffic.
One shall speak only if what one has to say is more beautiful than silence
I'm sure one of you slashdot faggots will blame Microsoft.
Never put RMS & Alan Cox & Linus in the very same car/plane or even building (just for sure ;-))). If you are paranoid it doesn't mean they aren't after you.
P.S.
Deepest condolences...
A nerd dies in a car accident.
Big fuckin' deal.
Did these guys actually code anything worth while?
Apparently, they were found in Michael's apartment, orgasmic grimaces on their face, after trying RMS's new "Open-Source Autoerotic Asphyxiation" technique.
So sad to see three luminaries die in one day.
Oh, michael, how I'll miss your trolling bylines and hypocritical censorship. And timothy, your incompetence and subtly erotic use of thousands of duplicate story posts (in a code only michael and CmdrTaco can read) was as heartwarming as it was irritating.
Goodbye to you both, and godspeed.
And RMS, you owe me $10. I hope I'm in your fucking will.
1234
So, I know everybody is going to run around giving sympathy for those who lost family, friends, etc. But my quesiton is, if the Big Dick Stallman was in the car, does that mean that it was a totally open source car? I was at one of his speeches once where the sponsoring organization was giving away from books in a drawing and Big Dick came across the auditorium in his little tip-toeing, stiff legged run and threw a hissy fit about whether the contents of the books were open source and could be freely copied and reproduced. So was the care completely designed and engineered by open source zealots and is it freely available for a moderate fee? Otherwise, I'm going to have to once again call bullshit on the Big Dick.
isn't that inSANE?
Christ that was insensitive. There are enough trolls here without that comment.
Please do not make any snarky comments about RMS getting out of the car before the accident. Regardless of your personal feelings, a person escaping potential serious injury or death should not be joke fodder - contrary to the first several posts.
Condolences to the family of the deceased.
I want to drag this out as long as possible. Bring me my protractor.
the user moderators need to get a kick in their pants. there were no prior comments and it gets moderated as redundant twice! at least be brave and call it flame bait like someone else did. and no, its not redundant or flamebait. i like microsoft. THERE I SAID IT!. But we all know that comment was going to be made sometime, so I made it first.
This is where metamoderators can give people a kick in the shins for abusing moderating privileges.
Now how can we blame Microsoft for this?
Beings aspergers AND pulling chicks... I enjoy the challenge!
See the subject.
This thread needs no jokes by stupid fuckers who can't get laid. This thread needs none of that. A person died. All that needs to be said was said in the parent. Even if you didn't know him, show some fucking respect.
Apparently, they were found in Michael's apartment, orgasmic grimaces on their face, after trying RMS's new "Open-Source Autoerotic Asphyxiation" technique.
So sad to see three luminaries die in one day.
Oh, michael, how I'll miss your trolling bylines and hypocritical censorship. And timothy, your incompetence and subtly erotic use of thousands of duplicate story posts (in a code only michael and CmdrTaco can read) was as heartwarming as it was irritating.
Goodbye to you both, and godspeed.
And RMS, you owe me $10. I hope I'm in your fucking will.
4567
It's always tough to lose someone so young. May you find some peace in this time of sorrow.
We really have a strong comunity feelling, even when we seem to be divided and separated by stupid technicall or filosofical diferences, and, Since our field (Computing), is a young science, and most of the developers are young people, we are not very used to see a Hacker die ...
...
...
Like RMS says, we have saints, but we don't have any gods yet
This has been an awfull accident, but in the years to come, we will see the older generations of Hackers getting older, and dying, It really makes you think, and still feells strange
ALMAFUERTE
WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
oh why oh why did not RMS & ESR be in the car and die, he is such an ass, the would will be better off with out him, him and ESR. ESR getting out of the car has to be the work of Gates
To not call it GNU/Linux....
Click here or a puppy gets stomped!
Also, John E. Mack was killed earlier this week after being hit by a drunk driver while crossing the street on foot.
Slashdot has a strange focus on issues of free software, an accident that killed one developer and could have potentially killed one of the founding fathers of the movement (Stallman aka Mr. GNU, Mr. GPL) makes it news. Even though Slashdot isn't generally an obituary site, I'd like to question why the person would have to be "important" for you to mourn them, a man with a girlfriend and a family passed away tragically. Do you need to know anymore to feel a pang of sorrow? Does he have to be a celebrity to make it important?
Sorry for the moral/ethical tirade, but maybe it'll give the moderators of this post and the poster himself something to think about.
Richard Stallman was in the car earlier but apparently had been dropped off prior to the accident.
Shame
What a terrible loss. My deepest sympathies to the bereaved family, and hope the survivors return to health quickly.
This is a time to think about how much all of the wonderful work in the free software world is based on the unselfish actions of precious individuals. Perhaps someone would like to post an accepted, confirmed email or physical address for people to send condolences or offers of assistance.
One question to slashdot, I did not see anything yet about drinking and driving. So maybe the "turn down a glass department" byline is, while a good idea in general when you are the driver, in this case perhaps inappropriate.
Matthew Rosin
"Richard Stallman was in the car earlier but apparently had been dropped off prior to the accident."
So near and yet so far.
http://images.google.com.au/images?q=Richard%20Sta llman&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab= wi
http://www.stallman.org/
Richard Stallman
founded the GNU Project in 1984. He is the principal or initial author of GNU Emacs, the GNU C Compiler, the GNU Debugger GDB and parts of other packages. He is the President of the Free Software Foundation (FSF).
at demo in Amsterdam...truly a brillant, funny man RIP Hans Bakker we will miss you!
What's with open source and accidents? one of the PearPC developer - died in a train accident one Apache guy died in an accident (can't remember what) now this...... :(
Knowing hans since 1999 this is a real shock :( Condoleances to everybody who knew him :(
We'll miss you!
-- Cliff Albert
In 1980 I remember my computer science professor saying his profession was the safest in the world - since no Professor of Computer Science in history had ever died. I believe it was true at the time.
The worst part about this is that it's hard to know what to comment. It really sucks and there's nothing anyone can do about it... It's always sad when stuff like this happens...esp for no reason. It was foggy and a truck changed lanes into them....
just sucks....
LOL, stupid fucking open sores hippies deserve what they get.. they totally ruined the IT econonmy and are chiefly responsible for the outsourcing crisis going on..
I have no sympathy. He deserves it. You fucking assholes are putting people out of work and making familes go hungry.
For those of us who hold onto our faith dearly, a simple prayer.
"God, I ask you bless and comfort those who are grieving in this time of loss. I ask you bless the Bakker family, and be with the those who have lost a good friend. Allow the loved ones to seek closure for Mr. Bakker. In Jesus name, amen"
http://www.freebsd.org
If anyone has news of Richard Stallman today, please call either the FSF (ask Bradley Kuhn) or +33 1 42 76 05 49 (ask Loic Dachary). We have no reason to beleive that RMS was still in the car but he did not call yet, probably unaware of the accident and our worries. Please Wichert Akkerman, call us if you have more information.
Our deepest sympathies to the family of the person killed.
I'm glad you have this important information on your front page:
-Letter
It looks like Hans' webserver didn't survive the /.ing, either.
Condolences to thir loved ones.
Don't pick up the pho*(@)$*@&@!@ NO CARRIER
Deepest sympathies of course - but I cant help but wonder could this have been a failed attempt by Microsoft to assainate a key member of the open source community ? Probably not , but could they engineer such a plot and get away with it?
Deepest sympathies to the family and friends for their loss. RIP.
toresbe
Even though I didn't know Hans Bakker, I'd like to express my deepest sympathies to his loved ones. :'(
:(
It's so bezarre. The atmosphere was great at the RAI conference center yesterday evening. It was a very nice event where like-minded ambitious and talented young people met with eachother and exchanged ideas.
And then, something like this happens.
Rest in peace, Hans.
"Oooh, does that mean we get to kick some puffy white mad zionist butt?"
The report says that the accident occured after dropping off Richard, this trip was specifically to bring him to Paris. I know in his place, I'd be blaming myself, that's my nature.
For what it's worth : It wasn't your fault Mr. Stallman, so don't blame yourself. And my sympathies to the families involved.
BTW, does anyone know whether they were wearing seatbelts? Just just curious.
At 11:32 CEST i read a message on IRC from a friend that our buddy Madeddie was taken into a hospital in France. At that time i though it was a sick/silly joke, to realize 4 hours later that it wasn't a joke and that one of a fellow IRC regular was involved in the accident and died. I only hope that Madeddie and Webmind both are ok and back home soon. Madeddie, if you read this ... BETERSCHAP!
My condoleances to Hans Bakker's family and gf.
While my deepest sympathy to the injured, I have an utterly insensitive opinion. I think it's too bad RMS walked away from this, and didn't at least get a fracture to his head bone! Free as in Price, but not as in beer, bah! This just goes to show what happens when you support a greedy developer with a free ride. Kharma comes to bite the inocent around him. RMS just raddiates bad ju-ju, and I'd say he should get a real job and ride around in a payed rental car instead of existing on the favours of others his whole life. This is what happens when you support a hippy; you get dead or a broken hip, while RMS smokes his dope and says: "bummer dude!" from the safety of his hotel room that somebody else no doubt payed for.
I didn't know Hans well but we hung around in the same IRC-channel. My deepest sympathy goes out to the family and friends that suffered from this tragic loss.
Also a get well soon for the other guys in the car...
/(bb|[^b]{2})/
Hans Bakker was the organizer of several NE2000 camps. Ne2000 is a yearly event where about 200 people show up with their tents/campers/caravans and plug into the network, it's a fairly open source oriented happening. I've seen and spoken Hans around there although I wasn't a close friend of him or anything. He has also participated in several open source projects.
The people involved in this car accident are all from the same fairly big group of "young" open source fans in The Netherlands that keep contact with each other over IRC and also IRL. Therefore I'm not surprised that this story was submitted by several readers. I hope this explains why it is important, I know I was shocked and saddened by the loss.
In addition to the victims of this tragedy, consider the millions of victims of child abuse, spousal abuse, female genital mutilitation, etc.
If god does exist, she definitely cannot be loving.
I decline to offer condolences, for the person who died and others who will die from this auto crash are now in eternal peace or will be in eternal peace.
This is Slashdot - we well know the power of distributed community. Accidents like this are very costly ordeals, typically even with insurance. Can someone with the ability to make disbursement to these individuals (and the family of Mr. Bakker) set up accounts via PayPal (many mixed opinions, I know) or bank local to their residences for contributions and post the details?
Any spoon would be too big.
Why is this on /.? Can we draw a line somewhere please?
What's next - weather reports?
I never met Hans, however, after hearing this I browsed his website. It feels like going into someones house after they've died. Very sad. You know that that "under connstruction" banner will stay there forever.. I hope archive.org will pick up the site before the ISP drops it in the coming months (if they do... who knows who's hosting the site).
Stallman's disgusting greasy unrestrained mass destroyed the suspension in the automobile being used, causing the accident. It was indeed his fault. If only he didn't eat those twinkies.
I knew Hans, the guy who died in the accident. I was very shocked, I met him only recently, and I just discovered that there was a picture of me on his site. Last time I spoke he told me he wanted to join geekcorps or something similar, to do something useful for the world. It pains me that that won't happen.
he made some money somewho to aford the funeral.
A loss of a person is truly the worst thing that can happen. My heart goes out to their family.
However, with all of the SUV bashing you see on this site, it should be mentioned that they are the safest vehicles on the road. They save lives in head-on collisions like the one in this story. It is undisputable that if they were driving an SUV, that software developer would be alive today. I know that's a strong statement, but it's the truth. So next time you see someone bashing an SUV for gas mileage, just remember the person who died today. Remember how his family is grieving at the loss of a good human being. Remember the loss to the OSS community. The only way to avoid accidents like this is to drive safe vehicles; SUVs are the only safe way to drive.
Again, my heart goes out to the family. I am truly sorry for the loss.
My deepest condolances to the the family and the survivors. I did not know them personally, but I feel connected in some esoteric geek, /., techie way.
Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft, mag zusehn, dass er nicht dabei zum Ungeheuer wird. --Nietzsche
...almost had a GNU/death experience?
Seriously though, that's horrible news. My deepest condolences to the individuals involved as well as their families.
Thanks for WAN, thanks for NE2000, thanks for your company on all LAN parties we shared, and your company in the Beiaard. And not to forget, IRC.
Rest in peace.
I'm not a complete idiot... Some parts are missing.
Plays on words are amazingly dissimilar to witless comments about wishing a specific individual had been involved in an auto accident. Frankly I'm a little surprised that this required clarification.
I want to drag this out as long as possible. Bring me my protractor.
The car collided with a makeshift barricade formed by our huge pulsating nigger dongs.
Honestly, other than the fact that it's Stallman, it's JUST a car accident. How many of us can say we've never been in one? I certainly feel badly for Mr Bakker, this happens all the time. The fact that RMS was in the car prior to that is just a coincidence. How many other people had been in that car over the course of the weekend? Let's not sit here and talk about how close he came to possible tragedy, instead let's send our best wishes and hopes to the other victims in the accident that are still alive. If there's anyone able to appreciate how we feel, these two guys are at the top of the list.
For all those that say BSD is dead.
Open Source is dead !
Watch out, because it will come back to haunt you.
"Richard Stallman was in the car earlier but apparently had been dropped off prior to the accident."
Damn. Missed.
- Microsoft
A world without Stalman is a world indeed.
Just say no to communism.
Cyanobyte
Did you see how young Hans looks in that pic? Fucking bullshit...cut down in his prime...my sympathies to his family and friends.
syrrys
Don't tell me to take the high road when you use a word associated with terrorism and the brutal and painful death of thousands of people in a joking manner.
Open source developers should never travel in the same car or fly in the same plane. They are just too precious and should use teleconferencing.
So many people die every day in tragic circumstances that bear no comparison to this like sudan. I felt more pain over this than I did over sudan, and I don't even know what project this guy was involved with.
Somehow, a man whose life was somewhat more similar to mine (ok, judging from his site we have vastly different personalities) than a sudanese victim has more impact on me. If anyone with a psychology background would help explain why this is I'd like to know why.
Photos.
Death is part of life. Do you mourn every person who dies somewhere in the world? No, you couldn't care less because you don't know them. I don't know any of the people mentioned personally and their death (or not) is irrelevant to me. Will their loss be felt? Not even a little bit, I suggest you get a bit of perspective into your life.
Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
It's a good question, and I think the answer lies in how much of your life was tied up in the life of the other person.
." .....
For some insight into this you might want to read this extract of chapter 21 of "The Little Prince"
"What does that mean--tame?"
"It is an act too often neglected," said the fox. "It means to establish ties."
"To establish ties?"
"Just that," said the fox. "To me, you are still nothing more than a little boy who is just like a hundred thousand other little boys. And I have no need of you. And you, on your part, have no need of me. To you I am nothing more than a fox like a hundred thousand other foxes. But if you tame me, then we shall need each other. To me, you will be unique in all the world. To you, I shall be unique in all the world . .
if you tame me, it will be as if the sun came to shine on my life. I shall know the sound of a step that will be different from all the others. Other steps send me hurrying back underneath the ground. Yours will call me, like music out of my burrow. And then look: you see the grain-fields down yonder? I do not eat bread. Wheat is of no use to me. The wheat fields have nothing to say to me. And that is sad. But you have hair that is the color of gold. Think how wonderful that will be when you have tamed me! The grain, which is also golden, will bring me back the thought of you. And I shall love to listen to the wind in the wheat . . . "
The fox gazed at the little prince, for a long time. "Please--tame me!" he said.
You can read more at http://students.washington.edu/yana/LP.htm or various other locations shown by google
blog.sam.liddicott.com
nobody would have died
he's a human cushion of hair and fat
Is there a common place to give tribute to those in our community like this who have been lost? It would be great if there was (sorry, not volunteering). Back in July, one of the main PearPC (the PowerPC emulator) developers died.
This is what I love about the OSS community; it's a community! People drive each other from and to places, stay at each others', and when something unfortunate like this happens you truly feel that it's a community where people care about their own.
Here's what I feel we need to do; we need to put up a fund (donations) and a website to commemorate the OSS community members, and part (if not the vast majority of it, deservedly) of the mission/website fund ought keep their personal homepages and accounts on notable community portals (e.g. slashdot) alive, and be linked to from the website. Hans' personal homepage should **never** disappear due to lack of payment or activity, and it should not be left to his family members, hit by grief and possible loss of income, to do ensure that. Possibly too, condolences may be posted to one list that can be sent to his surviving folks. OSS members make personal sacrifices to be active members of the community and it'd be a nice tough to let their family members, who have likely been compromized financially by the opporutnity cost of their breadwinner being an active OSS member, ought to be let known that many many others care and are thankful for their contribution, whether it was code, logistical (hey, driving RMS is a big deal!), or even in spirit and enthausiasm.
I've set up a Paypal fund for the family of the deceased and the survivors (to help with medical bills, etc).
I swear to you all that I am not scamming you, these funds will be transferred to the family/survivors.
Send donations to:
nospam_paypalcom@scovetta.com
Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft, mag zusehn, dass er nicht dabei zum Ungeheuer wird. --Nietzsche
Hah!!
Many open sores projects are struggling to keep their projects running becuase no one is willing to donate to them.
Open sores zealots are a bunch of jewish cheapskates. If it wasn't for companies like IBM, open sores would be 10 years in the past.
What a fitting tribute to someone who was a big part of our community... on the day of his death, we slashdot Hans' personal web space.
"Our funds have never taken part in toxic or death spiral convertible financings of any sort" -BayStar's managing partne
I laugh at the death of OSS developers.. OSS is the chief reason why the IT market is in such piss-poor shape right now.. You have totally devalued the entire industry.
When I can't for the life of me find a job for months on end to feed my family, I have no sympathy for you guys.
Eat shit, Hans Bakker. Burn in hell.
Could this be a terrorist incident?
Trying to remove the very people who
love freedom?
That would make sense since the terrorists
hate freedom.
From Project Gutenberg
GHOSTIES AT THE WEDDING.
Turn down a glass afore his place; Draw up the dog-eared chair; For though we shall not see his face, I think he will be here Our wedding day to share.
Turn up the glass where she would be And put a red rose there. Her quick, grey eyes we cannot see, But weren't they everywhere, And shall not they be here?
Though them old blids are in the grave And their good light's gone out, We'd sooner their kind ghosties have Than all the living rout As will be there no doubt.
For some are dead as cannot die. Some flown as cannot flee. You still do fancy 'em near by. 'Tis so with him and she, At any rate to we.
"The Milliard Gargantubrain? A mere abacus - mention it not."
It's a lovely poem, by Eden Philpotts. I think it makes a very appropriate dept.
GHOSTIES AT THE WEDDING.
Turn down a glass afore his place;
Draw up the dog-eared chair;
For though we shall not see his face,
I think he will be here
Our wedding day to share.
Turn up the glass where she would be
And put a red rose there.
Her quick, grey eyes we cannot see,
But weren't they everywhere,
And shall not they be here?
Though them old blids are in the grave
And their good light's gone out,
We'd sooner their kind ghosties have
Than all the living rout
As will be there no doubt.
For some are dead as cannot die.
Some flown as cannot flee.
You still do fancy 'em near by.
'Tis so with him and she,
At any rate to we.
"The Milliard Gargantubrain? A mere abacus - mention it not."
The parent is a known troll. YHBT
Its bad taste to joke about death so soon after it happens. Yes people do die all the time, but if you have no opinion on the matter or are going to post jokes dont post at all. How would you feel if jokes were made as soon as someone you know and love died?
I didnt know hans, but I do 'know' (have contact with) webbie/webmind. My thoughts go out to him and hope he recovers soon, and to the friends and family of the others.
Please enjoy your stay.
and nobody really thinks about it until an acquaintance dies.
Just goes to show ya...
UNIX kills. Don't let anyone tell you different.
if Richard Stallman was in the car and was killed.
Fatalities caused by Stallman's hair getting caught up in the seat belts.
Please don't tune out, or mod me down. This is a legitimate question. I know the "community" is millions of people strong (me included), but I have often wondered whether there is any risk to a concentration of people at the top of the open source/free software community.
Leaving aluminum foil hats aside, certainly there have been times in history when those whose financial or other powerful interests are threatened use violence against their opponents. Don't you think the leaders of certain threatened proprietary companies might rejoice if, for example, Linus passed away?
More commonly, when we focus on risk avoidance in things like IT security and disaster recovery, sometimes we point to the risks of loss of aggregated concentrations of people or resources. (How many folks did Cantor Fitzgerald alone lose at the World Trade Center?)
So, I am not being facetious. I know the idea of free software will live forever, others will carry the banner forward, but nevertheless, is there a risk to Linux when the leaders of the community all get together in one place at one time for a conference or something? If a plane heading to a conference went down which had RMS, ESR, Linus and many other community luminaries all on board, whither Free and Open Source software?
Please, mod me up so we can have a real discussion on this. I am not astroturfing, FUDDing or anything else. Sometimes I am just feeling concerned, and stories like today's tragedy worry me.
Hans was my friend. I knew him in real life. /. eventhough he is not here anymore and unfortunatly it is not a positive way to be on /.
I spoke to him some weeks ago. I think he is proud now that he is on
If heaven had e-mail, I would e-mail you!
bye m8
Alexander den Engelsman
...the car dropped Stephen King off in Bangor, Maine before continuing on. Such a tragedy that could have been.
Let's hope more and more open source developers are killed in this way. That's what it would take to get linux from being the festering pile of bubbling ass that it is today.
They were so close to getting points
No-one had picked Hans, so no score there!
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
Really, it's because they're people we know and respect. Well, some of us know, and many of us respect for what they do. Realistically, it could have been one of us... I'm not so popular on slashdot or OS that somebody might post an obituary for me, but we have done so for authors, actors, even scientists. Personally, I don't know all these people, and I'd not consider all of them celebrities.
If a John Doe dies and we don't know him - we'd still consider it a tragedy in most cases. However it's not so personal a tragedy. Given the relation between OS and slashdot (as mentioned), they are well enough known here, as are movie-stars, that enough of us might be touched by the news in some way.
That being said, perhaps somebody could give a brief mention of the contributions of those involved - I may not know them but that's not to say I'm not interested in what they've done.
But it's ok, as the Slashdot story states that Stallman wasn't killed. It's a sad world when a story tells me who wasn't killed and not who was (killed or injured). It's obvious that the poster thinks Stallman living is more important than someone dying. Shame on you!
fame != importance
Why do you not have the same sensitivity towards the 3000 killed in the World Trade Centers or in various places over seas in the name of "jihad"?
Software developers die every day believe it or not.
It's terrible that someone died, and my condolences to the family, but...
Wouldn't it be awesome if Free/Open source people started having real gang warfare? Raw raps, drive by shootings, the works! Hell, they could even pick up teh fly bitchez.
I'm hoping that at least one of my friends or family can find the courage and heart to make a joke. Mind you, it should be made at the appropriate time. At the only funeral we went to, we talked a lot about my friend's life, and made quips about how "Adults Only Video" would probably go bankrupt without his business. He would have appreciated the joke... we made much the same remarks when he was with us.
Now, for people who don't really know the deceased to make such comments, it just isn't appropriate. It also depends on the character of the person involved in the tragedy. A joke should bring light smiles and help offer some balm to the wounds of those affected, not simply be the attention-seeking acts of immaturity we unfortunately tend to see online.
and bit hard.
Condolences to his family and friends.
No, jihad is a holy war against the "infidel".
Take a history class or two.
Damn... they let stallman off too early... that would have solved a lot of the stench problems at various linux shows that he inhabits (oh i meant gnu linu.. oh wait.. no forget it)
For those who "cope" with life, but immerse themselves in saddening film that still contain some wit or light humor, see a Hong Kong film named "Funeral March".
. ht m
(Try your local Asian or import video store. If your LUCKY, BB or HV might have it, but don't count on it. Or, order it online or from some places in San Francisco/Burlingame, CA...)
Male or female, soft or tough, if you have feelings or sensitivities, you will cry and you will laugh, and in some parts, you do both and without guilt. Some have sobbed like babies if immersed in this film without distractions
Review is at:
http://www.lovehkfilm.com/reviews/funeral_march
The one at IMBD.com doesn't do justice to the film.
But, I watched it and it's touching:
Non-spoiler gist:
Yee, a young woman hires a funeral director to arrange a burial. It turns out it's for herself. She's dying of intestinal/stomach cancer, but the funeral director encourages/recommends that she take the medicine prescribed and undergo the operation. As part of his hiring by her, though, we get to see an interesting and different perspective on living, living with limited time, and dying.
Most of the film is in Hong Kong, but a brief jaunt to New York shows some nice scenery I'd not seen (I've never been there, but even with all the TV shots, I don't think I'd seen the images in "FM"). Not all cultures are like the US. In some places laughing and celebration mark a passage to a hopefully BETTER place than here. I tend to think of Earth as a "proving ground" which will determine where we go next. I prefer to discount any Heaven or Hell, for natural things around us recycle, so why not the soul as well as matter. For us puny humans to be given ONE life to live, from seconds to just uner 115 years, but usually 45-85 years, it's a CHEAT for a god to creat billions of souls that in the cosmic scope of things are snuffed out relative to a fly's lifetime, actually vastly shorter.
I think fatal incidents or accidents are just interruptsion or even accelerators. I feel murder is "forced eviction" from the game of life, depending on the circumstances, but all around us we eventually forget the millions living under undeveloped or corrupt regimes, starving, dying, living malnourished, and more and worse.
In developed nations, aside from some petty corrupt leaders, we live fairly comfortably, and increasingly lack a clear, fundamental understanding of living when fast-paced, tech living distorts the big picture.
Slow down. Ponder. Live. Reflect. Volunteer. Donate. Help. Complain, and fix the people system, not just the tech stuff.
David Syes
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
If you feel the need to respond to any post because it is "insensitive", you are simply looking for something to be indignant about. Does your viewpoint of the situation change because you read an "insensitive" post? Does the post have any tangible effect on your personal situation or the situation of others? If the answer to either of those questions is "yes", perhaps you should instead spend some time in introspection examining why your will is so malleable.
There is nothing "wrong" with "insensitivity". It is of no consequence. It is no excuse for hostility. Fight against it if you must, but never believe your actions are justified by any inherent "right" or "wrong" regarding insensitivity. Determining why you feel the need to respond may be far more productive than posting your unearned indignation.
"A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."
No mention in the story, or in the accident reports in French, of whether alcohol was involved in this accident.
To state that "Richard Stallman was in the car earlier but apparently had been dropped off prior to the accident" is so incredibly RUDE and DISTASTEFUL and INSULTING, especially when the names of the dead and injured are left out. To even insinuate that we are all so lucky that Stallman wasn't hurt even tho these nameless folks got pasted infuriates me to no end. Heaps of SHAME and DISHONOR to the poster "michael" for his horrid thoughtlessness.
I propose that a worthy open source project be named after Hans, in his honor.
My deepest condolences to his family and friends.
I am very sorry to hear this. I give my condolences to Hans's close friends and family. I did not know him personally, however any loss of an OSS contributor is a great loss (*). Thank you Hans!
-Chuck
(*) For those suffering from a lack of perspective: Yes, any death is a great loss to someone.
*Condense fact from the vapor of nuance*
How predictable. Some jackass modded parent down to -1. Sucks that I have to browse slashdot at -1 so I can see the good posts.
Richard Stallman was in the car earlier but apparently had been dropped off prior to the accident.
I don't know what makes me feel worse, the fact that someone was killed in the car crash, or the fact that it wasn't Stallman.
I know laughter helps us cope but the jokes I saw were not of a coping nature.
More accuractely, I believe you should say, "the jokes I saw were not how I choose to cope."
Please remove the "us" when you start pontificating about how "we" cope. We're individuals. You will never know how, if, or why anyone else attempts to cope the way they do. The search & rescue story indicates. Coping is part of our individual discovery processes.
I've seen friends cope with loss in so many ways... laugh, joke, toast, cry, destroy property, lash out at loved ones and friends, and even destroy themselves. It's never clear to me at the moment if their coping actions are "good" or "bad", and honestly, it's not my place to know or judge that.
Do you know something we don't, Michael? Did the driver have a drink or is this another snide remark?
This guy is way out there
I just read some sad news on Slashdot- Free Software developer .... was killed in a car accident this morning. There weren't any more details yet. I'm sure we'll all miss him, even if you weren't a fan of his code there's no denying his contribution to Free Culture. Truly an Open Source icon.
Let me paraphrase: "Some people were killed, but Richard stallman was not one of them, so everything is okay."
Yeah... Try that one on the families of the accident victims.
Who approved this article?
Doesn't Stallman constantly exhort people not to drive because they'll get themselves killed?
Don't Crease the Weasel!
While not part of my direct family, I have some of the most wretched people on the planet who share my blood. These people aren't merely assholes, annoying, etc. These people are absolute scum. The day they die is the day I have new joke material. Had these "kin" of mine been in that car, the world would have been a better place for it.
No jokes, no clever comment, just condolences.
...has definitely lowered the discourse on Slashdot. 90% of the people who post just want to get modded to +5 funny. It would probably be better to retire the Funny modifier for a couple weeks so people can practice posting useful comments.
http://www.platopeople.com/about.html was started in 1960 - surely it's got to be a candidate for being the very first online community of any kind.
Unless, of course, anyone knows different...
Whew, you had me going there for a minute.
I have not met these individuals, but I am sad they were hurt. They are part of a great, good thing. They contributed to a common good that everyone can benefit from.
There is nobility in the choices they have made, and we are poorer for losing one of them.
Peace
What a tragedy :( My feelings go out to all the relatives and friends of Hans. Good luck in the hard period that follows. Best wishes for the people who are still in the hospital.
I thought all of the dope smoking Eurohippies rode bicycles or walked to their destination.
Seriously though, I did read where Ted Kennedy chastized the driver of this vehicle saying that killing people with cars is just not right...
I had never heard of this guy until now i didn't know this fucker and I can't say that I will miss him. Mod me down or ban if you must be at least I am honest most of the people here didn't know the guy and will not give a second thought about him.
I think the invisible hand of the market has its middle finger extended
--A wise old fart named SC0RN
Fantastic. I followed the link, then clicked on "try this page" only to find that we had /.ed the Coral server.
Back to the drawing board...
The cure for cancer is coming: Reovirus
Your link just goes to the article, not a specific thread.
Yeh, Damnit DAldredge, Anonymous Coward has had a hard enough life without having to listen to you. Go easy on him, he's sensitive!
what genius modded this as insightful???
If a person's mindstream ceases when he or she dies, then anything you do after that moment has no relevance to that person - it can't offend them, because they no longer have the capacity to be offended. If it does not, then praying for that person may be beneficial, whether or not they would have approved of it in life.
:')
The problem with exhorting people to prayer in a public forum like this is that (1) it's pointless, and (2) some people who are still alive here find it offensive. It's pointless because if we think that prayer will help, and we have the capacity to do a sincere prayer on behalf of Hans, then we will do it whether or not we are exhorted.
It's offensive to some people for a variety of reasons - I will say for myself that I used to be offended by overt mentions of Christianity because I felt very judged by people who had blind faith and felt that I was defective because I didn't have the capacity to have blind faith. It doesn't offend me anymore, because I understand the problem better, but I think it's worth being understanding toward those who do have this problem, and examining ones' own actions to see if one is doing anything that would tend to engender this sort of feeling.
The job of a religious practitioner is to succeed in his or her practice, and it is through this that they may help others - any activity that projects one's religious beliefs outward is very risky, and needs to be undertaken with great seriousness, and probably not on a forum as public as slashdot.
This is not to say that you should shut up entirely, but I do urge you to consider your audience!
This is a sad thing. My sincerest condolences go out to the family of the person who died.
GJC
Gregory Casamento
## Chief Maintainer for GNUstep
I believe you are right, considering the conference itself is /. worthy. Therefore, the accident related to the conference is also newsworthy, even had there been no fatalities. However, the mention of RMS and his peripheral involvement is quite relevant, because it makes the point that Hans and the others were only in that car because they were helping out a friend (who we just happen to recognize). They weren't just hopping down to the liquor store to pick up beer and cigarettes. That makes this a tragedy in the true sense (trying to do something good got him killed), rather than simply a misadventure.
Mal-2
How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
"The safest cars"
are no cars at all. Cars kill people, animals, plants, pollute the earth and require the sealing up of the Earth (which stifles more animal/plant life from ever existing, etc. And people accept this as normal and any efforts to convince these car lovers that cars are more dangerous than most diseases will cause them to mock you, challenge you with "you got a better idea?" or insult you.
We need a safer, "open sourced" approach from the ground up for transportation.
Until then, the Earth, animals, insects, plant life, and people will continue to suffer, all for what? Cars.
The statistics are actually that SUVs are more likely to be in an accident, and the accidents are more likely to be fatal. One reason is because many SUVs are prone to roll-over and many people drive their SUVs like they are sports cars because they feel "safe". There is also the problem that SUV bumpers are too high for some cars and that SUVs block people's visibility (not unique to SUVs... 18 wheelers are much worse about this).
They don't have to have many of the safety features of passenger cars because they are regulated like trucks. Safety regulations assume trucks are for business use like deliveries and not for transporting people, especially children.
The only advantages to SUV's are 1) their additional weight. That "advantage" is only relative to other vehicles so it ends up putting other people at risk and 2) better visibility due to the driver being higher from the road surface.
Like another poster said a minivan has both of those advantages, and none of the disadvantages of an SUV because they have more strict regulation and are specifically designed to transport families and other groups of people.
dammit, RMS was SUPPOSED to be in that car, everything's ruined now :(
And then there was E
Must have been running Linux
" Real hackers don't die, there packages just expire. . . " Whe have hade some hard conversations, but it is even harder to know, that we won't have that again. Hans, rest in peace. Is je mclightje nu uitgegaan?
I heard that Bruce P3r3ns was the driver of the meat wagon...
The last thing he saw was broken Windows...
First, let me say that your post re: religious comments within this story's thread was about the fairest of those objecting to such comments.
With that said, I'd like to respond to your comment.
It seems as though you're suggesting that anyone who may have certain beliefs should feel almost _obligated_ to think twice before publically asking for those of the _same_faith_ to participate in something like a prayer, only because someone who may "over-hear" their request are not comfortable with their own beliefs and/or confusions. After all, if you're not of the same faith, I'd argue you weren't part of the audience since the comment was directed towards those of the same faith. Yes, it's a public forum, but the post was directed towards Chrisitans, or those of similar faith, praying for the deceased and the surviving loved ones. Should he/she have bit their tongue before posting such a comment in a public forum? Of course not, it's a public forum. If you get offended by the mere mention of religion, even if it's not directed towards you, I doubt a public forum is where you should be until you come to grips with your own beliefs.
I also want to mention that I'm agnostic.
"I have no special gift, I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
Troll -1, Here I Come!
Reading 100's of strangers passing their respect to yet somebody they've never met dieing gives me a funny feeling.
How many people die each day? And of those, how many lead sorrowfull lives, filled with pain and suffering? How many of you pay a thought to them, and of those of you who do, are you willing to take a large dent in your own wealth to help them? Are you willing to spare your own time?
Its a common fact that people really don't care about strangers, but this shirade of caring when the opportunity arises makes me want to puke.
(To those who knew the victims, apologies for ranting, this was certainly not directed at you)
"" How about taking the safety labels off everything, and let the stupidity-problem solve itself? """
If a person's mindstream ceases when he or she dies, then anything you do after that moment has no relevance to that person
What would your opinion about posthumous misrepresentation be? (putting words in someone's mouth after they are dead, such as false claims of deathbed conversions). I'd say such a thing still has very detrimental effect even when the person himself doesn't care anymore.
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
TTobi
Hans, thx for many MSN hours. Strenght family and friends. Groene achtergrond was idd leuk
My condolences to your spell-checker. May it rest in peace werever it may have gone off to.
Natural Selection: self-destruction of the poor and lazy
Dear All, please be aware of the initiative of the
h e condolences: http://www.condoleance.nl/registers/register_3254. html
Dutch irc community regarding the tragic accident of Hans Bakker.
I am Posting on their behalf. Also note the following urls
the text below: http://www.xs4all.nl/~mariekek/hans-im-eng.txt
t
Please direct to the ppl mentioned in the announcement for any further information.
Dear All,
Today 30 september we received the sad news of Hans Bakker's
(for the most of us known as McLightje) tragic accident in
the northern part of France in which he lost his life.
More information can be found at http://www.wiggy.net/tmp/accident/
In order to pay a proper tribute to our dear friend we
(Wiggy, JohnR and Tatsel) are organizing a fund to have
an obituary placed in one of the Dutch newspapers or otherwise.
Every action from our side will be done in close co-operation
and approval of Hans' family and relatives.
If you want to contribute please send an e-mail to the
address below IM.Hans.Bakker@gmail.com for further information
on how to contribute to Hans' tribute.
Thank you all in advance for your support.
Wiggy, JohnR and Tatsel
PS As you are all aware of McLightje's activities, please distribute this
e-mail to anyone you think Hans was involved with.
you can post condolences to Hans and his family and friends on this site.
This wikipedia page has already gone up for Hans. So if anyone can find out about his biography and post something up as a lasting memorial to the guy, then please do so. Thanks
Allah,
Lo, the infidel has died in a car crash. Praise Allah! Your will is great, your power divine. Let the earth shake before you, and let the infidels tremble in fear before the one true faith.
Allah Akbar! Allah Akbar!
occultae nullus est respectus musicae - originally a Greek proverb
So many of you are such freakin' hypocrites. Some OSS geek dies, and you're all bummed. Meanwhile, cops, firefighters, military personnel, etc, die every single day, while you surf
But this is 'different', because this guy isn't some John Q. lUSER, he's a geek!
If you don't quite 'get' this post, don't worry. You're just operating within your limited world-view, so relax, it -is- all about YOU.
Richard Stallman was in the car earlier but apparently had been dropped off prior to the accident.
:-P
Damn! j/k
http://www.wiggy.net/tmp/accident/hans
I mean just look at him. Smelly GNU/hippie
Rewriting that, we have:
"God, I ask you to stop cursing and distressing those who are grieving in this time of loss. I ask you to remove the curse from the Bakker family, and refrain from avoiding those who have lost a good friend. Stop denying the loved ones from seeking closure for Mr. Bakker. In Jesus name, amen"
The job of a religious practitioner is to succeed in his or her practice, and it is through this that they may help others - any activity that projects one's religious beliefs outward is very risky, and needs to be undertaken with great seriousness, and probably not on a forum as public as slashdot.
:-)
I disagree with your logic. Or I misinterpret you.
Basically what you seem (to me) to be saying is that being open and actively telling about your faith is morally wrong independent of a) what you believe and b) whether what you believe is true or not.
However, consider this. Christians generally believe that the only way of being saved (going to Heaven) is through faith on Jesus Christ. Also they believe that if you are not saved, you will suffer after your death eternally in a lake of fire. They (we) really believe it, it's not just some principle that affects how we live in this life.
Now, let's assume for the sake of this counterargument that what Christians believe is correct (which fits in (b)). I could talk about moral values in Bible here, but I believe we should be able to stipulate that Bible teaches that selflessness and helping others is good.
Now, it's true that very many people don't want to be helped. If it was really so that nobody would listen to us Christians AND one can be certain that nobody is going to be saved anymore, it perhaps could be argued that active evangelization would be an unnecessary nuisance and therefore probably wrong.
However, think about it this way. If you really really do believe that the majority of people around you are going to suffer in an eternal fire, and that it could be possible to save at least some of them, then is it morally right to not try? Even considering that, what, 99% of people who don't want to hear anything about it, I'd maintain that the remaining 1% or even a single person that can be saved makes it more than worth it. After all, this life is only a finite piece of time, very short compared to eternity.
That's how we Christians see it. Hope this explains it to you satisfactorily. I don't expect it to make it appear any less annoying to you, but perhaps it helps you understand our behavior a little more.
When you say something in a public forum, putting an apology in your message to the effect that it's only intended for a certain part of that public does not mean that in fact your message only reaches that portion of that public, so yes, I would say that you need to think about every person who will read it, not just the people that you intend to have read it.
Every religion of which I am aware has as one of its basic tenets that we should speak gently unless there is some strong reason to do otherwise. Christianity is no exception. So considering what effect our words will have is one of our most basic obligations as practitioners.
I'd say you're right, because the lie you tell affects those who come after the one who has died, and also because lying is a bad habit that I think harms the one doing it as well, particularly when the lie is harmful, as in the case you've described.
I saw this accident scene this morning. Driving back from Paris to Brussels, there was a large traffic jam which took about 20 minutes to get through. The accident occured just after a rest stop, just after the point where the rest stop traffic merges back into the autoroute. Since its where I usually stop for a rest about an hour north of Paris, I can imagine they either stopped for a rest and were merging back onto the autoroute, or else they got caught in a bunch of trucks scooting around someone merging slowly. Lots of accidents happen at the far end of rest areas. It was pretty foggy this morning, its that season.
There was quite a bit of heavy equipment on the scene, a mobile crane on the slip road, and a bucket-crane truck with a dump truck picking up what was left of the one truck's load, it looked like scrap metal. There was the cab and remnants of a trailer, very shredded, on flatbed trucks on the slip road. There was obviously a fire, since parts of the guard rail were burned, and the asphalt was scorched. There were some Pompiers (firefighters) and about a dozen Gendarmes from the B.E.A (Bureau d'Enquetes Accidents) standing around, but they had obviously finished all of their report gathering by 10:30 AM when I passed.
I know Rop, and I've probably met the others at various linux/hac-tic/2600/CCC/EC patent protest events. My heart goes out to the families and loved ones of those involved, and here is wishes for a speedy recovery for the injured. This accident affects all of us in the techie, hacker-in-the-good-sense-of-the-word, and linux scenes here in Europe. Lets remember Hans for the good things he accomplished in his life.
the AC
Hemos is like...sci-fi fans;he thinks technology is cool, but he hasn't bothered to understand the science it's based on
Anicca vata sankhara, uppadavayadhammino.
Uppajjitva nirujjhanti tesam vupasamo sukho.
Impermanent alas are formations, subject to rise and fall.
Having arisen, they cease; their subsiding is bliss.
The younger somebody is, the fewer people will be really affected by their death. The death of an infant, for example, is quickly forgotten by everyone but close relatives. Even then, most of the grief of everyone but parents is *for* the parents.
Infants have no life-long friends to be pained by their going... they've no spouses, no kids of their own, no students or coworkers.
An eight year old has had more of an impact, but stil... eight year old friends will get over it. They hardly even understand.
About the peak time for individual pain seems to be the death of a teenager, since the teenagers around them are already in such a delicate state. A best friend dying is devastating at sixteen, more so than at 30. Teenagers usually only have school and activity friends, they haven't known them that long, and they don't have leftovers from previous life stages, so the pain is sharp and localized.
At 30 you have more people who care, so the total pain level is probably higher, but the pain of any one non-relative is mostly less.... they have their own life.
It does trail off towards the end of life, but only because the people who would care have died themselves and you're all alone.
Hm. I guess you can tell I don't much care for the feelings of the deceased... there aren't any. Suffering in the years approaching death is a separate issue. The question for me is the effect on those left behind.
You didn't annoy me. This is extremely off-topic, though. I will say just one thing about it. I too believe that many of the people around me will visit that lake of fire as a result of their misunderstanding of the world. But I can't prove it. So if I am to help them, just saying "you're going to burn in that lake of fire" isn't going to do it. I was turned off to religion for thirty years as a result of people who said things like that to me. All of them were very sincere, well-meaning Christians.
When you connect deeply to a spiritual tradition, and what it teaches seems self-evident to you, then it's a natural reaction to want to tell everyone what you've seen. But the thing you've seen that you want to tell them isn't in the words you're going to say. You can't show someone the Eiffel Tower when they're standing in Peoria, IL. You first have to get them on a plane to Paris, and then once they're there you have to get them to a point where they can see the tower.
Just so, if you truly want to save someone from that lake of fire, the path down which you must lead them doesn't begin with telling them "OMG, you're going to burn in a lake of fire!" The path starts with you coming to understand precisely how to save them from that lake of fire. If you don't know, how can you explain it to them? I have met very few Christians who even try to find that out, even though it's written all over the New Testament in nice friendly red letters. Jesus was a really nice guy - he spelled it all out for us. But mostly we seem to argue and preach over esoterica that have nothing to do with the red letters, and won't get anyone out of that lake, or we loudly proclaim our beliefs in a way that is helpful to no-one.
(I mean we when I say we - when I first started to get what was going on with my path, I did the same thing, even though I should have known better. Sigh.)
I hate to hear of a young mind dying. What would it have accomplished?
Rest well and peacefully.
Codifex Maximus ~ In search of... a shorter sig.
"But leave small gaps every ten feet or so for animals... I see roadkill stuck by them every day."
I agree wholeheartedly. I sometimes see small channels built into the bottom of the concrete dividers to allow for water runoff, but these are too small for many nocturnal creatures taller than about 4" to get through (armadillos, dogs, foxes and coyotes seem to be the most affected here in Texas). I've often wondered why the engineers responsible for designing these things didn't think of this when they pictured miles of their dividers running down the middle of tollways and construction areas in continuous-without-a-gap fashion.
Yes, it *will* work!
I must admit, I do feel truly sorry for the victims, but I do believe I would have rammed a truck too if I were forced to share a car with RMS for any extended period of time. I wonder if their families have grounds to sue RMS.
I have to admit, it is a terrible event when a person dies. Thanks to my faith, which is more or less realism, I'd like to hope the person lived a good life, accomplished what he had hoped to at that point in his life. I also see what we live in as an ecosystem, although the human race likes to separate itself from the animals, the chaos and destruction rendered by humans is part of the ecosystem and we will all be effected (one way or another) by the loss of any human being.
That being said, I have to present the obvious which is that the Slashdot community is far too diverse too cope with a situation like this. There are people of every known religion (except possibly Amish sects of Christianity), there are a great deal of children as well, it is definately safe to say that no matter what posting is made regarding this event, someone is bound to get offended. In fact, the less rational are likely to not only make defensive remarks such as "imagine it was your dad", but others are likely to respond further and fuel the argument.
It is my personal oppinion that a comment forum such as this should either in this circumstance simply turn the comments section black in order to pay condolences by blocking what may be rude comments, or people who insist on writing comments that are defensive regarding the seriousness of the issue simply avoid fueling the debates by giving people more reason to disregard to original reason for the posting.
I personally am among the group of people which has always accepted life and death and have always valued death as the greatest contribution a person can make to the environment. When I die, I personally hope to fertalize a lovely tree, the tree will one day be chopped down and made into firewood and later it will help to save the life of a child that would otherwise freeze to death without the warmth of my wood, etc...
So if people make comments that are rude or jokign regarding the death, instead of forcing them to see your way of perceiving death, simply avoid fueling a debate which simply can not be won. The Christians have tried forcing their beliefs down the throats of millions by force, of course they have had great success, but there's still a lot more that aren't Christian than that are. Your comments on Slashdot will be taken much less seriously than the churches gunpoint salesmanship. Just leave it alone and pay your respects to the dead.
To the others which are trolling for flamebait on this one, please find a more appropriate forum, or at least fake your own death, get a comment on slashdot and then poke fun.
In M2, I treat all the moderations as if they were the first one given to the post.
It's a fundamental flaw in the metamoderation system that you can't know in what order the moderations were performed. That also makes it very difficult to M2 "Overrated" and "Underrated". Giving a +5 Funny post a -1 Overrated may be fair. But it's unfair to give an unmoderated post a -1 Overrated.
Also, several moderators could have entered a moderation around the same time. That way, posts jump up far above what the moderator thought the post deserved. This could be solved by an optional "Maz score" field next to the moderation SELECT, so that if three moderators moderated a post with starting score 1, "+1 Funny, max 3" at the same time, only two of those mod. point were used, and the third user got the mod. point back to use later.
Irene KHAAAAAAN!