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Worker Fired For Running SETI On State-Owned PCs

Formica writes "A programmer working for the Ohio Department of Job and Family Services was fired for running SETI software on a state server. As quoted in this article, department head Tom Hayes says, 'I think that people can be comfortable that security has beamed this man out of our building.' More articles from Google."

120 of 622 comments (clear)

  1. Would you want to work for this guy? by BWJones · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "I understand his desire to search for intelligent life in outer space, because obviously he doesn't find it in the mirror in the morning," Hayes said. "I think that people can be comfortable that security has beamed this man out of our building."

    What an ass Tom Hayes is! Come on now, there is no need for personal attacks, especially because this statement was publicly released in a news interview and they have already fired this guy. I am half tempted to find Tom's email address and tell him just that.

    So the issue is: Was there a policy that prohibited use of those systems for that purpose? Granted, since the machines were taxpayer funded, this should have raised some red-flags for Charles Smith (the fired employee), however...... immediate termination rather than a warning seems a bit harsh. Any time you are using publicly funded resources for personal use, there should be extreme caution, and my bias is to never, ever go there in the first place unless there is a prior agreement for reimbursement.

    Of course we do not know all the circumstances, but Tom Hayes is still an ass for publicly attempting to humiliate this guy. Tom, whats wrong with you? I suspect you are a former high school football player turned college frat boy who has to put people down to make yourself feel better. Ass!

    --
    Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
    1. Re:Would you want to work for this guy? by genixia · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Maybe Tom won't be the only one 'beamed' out of the building.

      It's going to be amusing if he turns around and sues the state for slander. After all, it's been very publicly broadcast to millions of people that he's short of intelligence.

    2. Re:Would you want to work for this guy? by networkBoy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The one thing to be noted is that running SETI on a server is unwise.
      While I have never seen a problem personally I enforce my company policy that it be kept off servers. Desktops/proto machines fine, just not production environment servers. We actually use it to increase load on pre-production servers though :-)
      -nB

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    3. Re:Would you want to work for this guy? by LooseChanj · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I get the feeling SETI was just an excuse. I've seen people fired for siller things.

      --
      Mix the failings of Usenet with the shortcomings of the World Wide Web and the result is slashdot.
    4. Re:Would you want to work for this guy? by Iron+Clad+Burrito · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As much as Slashdot readers name-call world leaders (and world-leader-wannabes) that they disagree with, there's outcry over an average joe getting insulted?

    5. Re:Would you want to work for this guy? by dougmc · · Score: 2, Insightful
      that it be kept off servers.
      On some level, every networked computer is a server. Just because the article says it's a server, it may not be a server like you think of a server. It could very well just be the person's personal desktop box. Remember, the article was probably written by journalists, not IT people.

      (Of course, it's also possible that he installed it on every computer in the building, even servers he shouldn't have access to ... you just don't know, so it's hard to make judgements.)

      In any event, this isn't the first time that somebody's been fired/sued for running things like Seti or RC5 on their computer, and probably won't be last.

      On the other hand, I do agree that Tom Hayes comes across as a serious ass. Justified or not, he'd have been better off not making that comment to the media, and he's probably regretting it now.

    6. Re:Would you want to work for this guy? by Kyosuke77 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Present and potential world leaders routinely display their stupidity to the world. Everybody calls them names for it, not just the /. readership. All this guy did was run a technologically interesting piece of software on a computer he shouldn't have. To me, that hardly even warrants termination, let alone public humiliation.

      --
      GET THEM INSIDE THE VAULT!
    7. Re:Would you want to work for this guy? by PrvtBurrito · · Score: 5, Informative
      Ask and you shall receive:

      His Phone #

      His bio

      His feedback form

      --
      Laboratree - Scientific collaboration based on OpenSocial.
    8. Re:Would you want to work for this guy? by Halikar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There is a world of difference between being of the public and commenting, and commenting publicly about a professional decision. What one person says about another is simply that, one persons opinion. When a boss or ex-boss says it publicly about a persons professional life, it is flat out wrong unless you are intentionally trying to get someone black listed and ensure they will never be hired again.

    9. Re:Would you want to work for this guy? by Fortissimo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I agree that immediate termination seems harsh on the surface, but none of us know the back story on any of this. I've seen many times where an employee is perpetually abusive to the power they have and/or insubordinate or whatever, and management has been trying to nail them for a long time. Then, a dumb incident like this comes up and gives them the green light they'd been hoping for. Based on the situation and the harsh comments by Hayes, I think this smells suspiciously like one of those times. Seems highly doubtful that this was Smith's first offense.

    10. Re:Would you want to work for this guy? by haggar · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think that wouldn't be a wise step to take, career-wise. Things being as they are now, he could still get job with some understanding employer. But if he sues over a comment from his ex-employer, there won't be nobody that would want him, evermore.

      Not only beceause he'll have the aura of a hostile, potentially dangerous employee, but also because his fame will be much greater, after the lawsuit.

      If I was him, I'd be low profile for awhile.

      --
      Sigged!
    11. Re:Would you want to work for this guy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      He should definitely sue...

      He can use your argument about not being able to get a job in his field because of suing (which he was forced to do because of the slanderous comments *wink wink, nudge nudge*) to ask for even greater damages.

      With the right lawyer and playing his cards right he could get a pretty hefty settlement out of this. Enough at least to finance a few years off going to school for something more interesting than server monkey.

    12. Re:Would you want to work for this guy? by MrDigital · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No wonder you're a dark lord. Pretty evil, dude.

      --
      In a digital world there can be only one..
      The one, the only, MrDigital.
    13. Re:Would you want to work for this guy? by Misinformed · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Do not call him regarding this.

      Firstly you may be perceived as a harrasser (phone calls are pretty easy to trace), secondly isn't that lowering yourslef to his level, if this improfessionalism is correct. By all means provide words of encouragement to anyone that you perceive has been done wrong, and perhaps provide assistance to them if desired, but don't stick your ass in as a third party - it helps noone's cause.

      --
      --

      Slashdot: Racism against Indians OK. China bad, USA good. Blue pill in water supply.
    14. Re:Would you want to work for this guy? by genixia · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Why? The guy is 63.

      Of course, one really has to wonder why he wasn't given a warning first. The offense for which he was fired sounds like an excuse to get rid of someone. Age discrimination anyone?

      This is a lawsuit waiting to happen. And against The Department of Job and Family Services too. That's going to make the primetime local news reports and leave the department with a lot of egg on their face.

    15. Re:Would you want to work for this guy? by CRCulver · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's going to be amusing if he turns around and sues the state for slander. After all, it's been very publicly broadcast to millions of people that he's short of intelligence.

      You don't seem to understand slander and libel laws. You can't sue a person just because they made a comment based on matters that are relative like intelligence, just like it's not slander if I say someone is ugly or boring. For there to be a case, it has to be an accusation of concrete fact, like saying someone has sex with a mare each evening.

    16. Re:Would you want to work for this guy? by saden1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The guy is 63. I don't think he has much of a career ahead of him. Getting fired two years before the retirement age sucks. I say sue the state, take whatever money you can and retire to the Bahamas.

      --

      -----
      One is born into aristocracy, but mediocrity can only be achieved through hard work.
    17. Re:Would you want to work for this guy? by Fear+the+Clam · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Not a chance. At least one person has already been charged with a crime for this sort of nonsense.

      This warning, combined with probable violations of Ohio computing policies by a programmer (who sure as hell ought to know better), would make calling the guy a dumbass entirely reasonable.

    18. Re: Would you want to work for this guy? by Black+Parrot · · Score: 2, Funny


      > Maybe Tom won't be the only one 'beamed' out of the building.

      Funnier yet if the long sought ET's abduct Hayes for a weekend of hot recreational probing.

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    19. Re:Would you want to work for this guy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Its not going to be particularly effective writing him. If you want to do something, contact those in political positions who could be embarrassed by him, such as the Ohio senators Mike DeWine or George V. Voinovich, or representatives. It helps if you are an Ohio resident. Additionally, for those directly responsible for people like Tom, talk to state senators and representatives.

    20. Re:Would you want to work for this guy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      with this reply, I've lost the chance to moderate this thread, but...

      Doesn't the photo of this Tom Hayes look almost exactly like Bill Lumberg from Office Space??

      http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0170550/

      http://jfs.ohio.gov/director.stm

    21. Re:Would you want to work for this guy? by Buckler · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Hell, I work for the City in which I live. At my facility, there's a computer lab where citizens can browse the web and do simple searches, etc. Unfortunately, all traffic goes through a proxy that has blocking software installed. This severely cripples the utility of the system, and does a disservice to our patrons. I just got fed up with it one day, and ran a password recovery tool to reset all the admin passwords on the system, then set admin rights for all users. I then reset the proxy to an open one (where I had permission from the operator to do so), and allowed totally unencumbered access to our citizens. Of course, this was completely non-authorized by management, but I felt it was the right thing to do. I then took it upon myself to become the ad-hoc local admin for the network. Is it a pain? Of course; Morons routinely load all sorts of spyware and malware onto the machines, and I clean it up. People delete critical OS files which must then be replaced. My boss knows nothing of this, and I will plead ignorance if he does. In the end, though, people have free access, and I think that trumps all concerns, even my job.

    22. Re:Would you want to work for this guy? by alienw · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You people just don't get it. The guy was doing something he wasn't supposed to with his employer's PCs. Nobody would question his firing if he was using the state's computers to host a commercial website for his own profit. However, using the same server for SETI@home is somehow better, right?

      Really, would you think it would be discrimination if he decided to donate some of his employer's PCs to Goodwill and got fired? Or if he decided to help poor families by giving away office furniture? Basically, he was doing something that constitutes theft of service, with somebody else's computer.

    23. Re:Would you want to work for this guy? by Garion+Maki · · Score: 4, Informative

      I don't think they are talking about making the employee sue his employer for being fired, but for the insults that he recieved after he got fired, which would be out of line (they fired him already, no need to kick him when he's down already).

      --
      All indicators show that the human race is selectively breeding itself for stupidity.
    24. Re:Would you want to work for this guy? by LuxFX · · Score: 2, Informative

      You can't sue a person just because they made a comment based on matters that are relative like intelligence, just like it's not slander if I say someone is ugly or boring

      That where defamation law comes in....

      --
      Punctanym: alternate spelling of words using punctuation or numerals in place of some or all of its letters; see 'leet'
    25. Re:Would you want to work for this guy? by Thomas+Shaddack · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Nobody would question his firing if he was using the state's computers to host a commercial website for his own profit.

      That has a negative impact on the machine performance, as the requests come regardless of its load. SETI@home uses the computer only when it doesn't work otherwise.

      However, using the same server for SETI@home is somehow better, right?

      Yes. What is the real damage done here? If we stretch things a bit, we could get a minor potential vulnerability of running a third-party app taking data from a remote machine, but MSIE - even when fully patched - is orders of magnitude worse in this regard. Other possible damage is a minutely higher power consumption of the CPU - worth perhaps couple cents.

      Really, would you think it would be discrimination if he decided to donate some of his employer's PCs to Goodwill and got fired?

      That would negatively affect the employer's ability to use the PCs - while SETI@home software doesn't use the CPU when other apps need it.

      More accurate comparison would be being fired for running a CPU-intensive screensaver.

      This smells more like a dumb manageroid hating a specific employee (which would also explain his later remarks), and using the first excuse to get rid of him.

      Basically, he was doing something that constitutes theft of service, with somebody else's computer.

      If it was theft, where's the stolen goods missing from?

    26. Re:Would you want to work for this guy? by lew3004 · · Score: 2, Informative

      It is law that states a former employer can not say slanderous or "bad" things against a former employee. When asked (assuming the former employee was released under the forementioned "bad" reasons), all the employer is allowed to say is "yes, he did work here from [date] to [date] and was released for (in this circumstance) violation of company policy." If there was no said company policy, he's got a case; if he didn't release the company under a contract to say these things after termination, he's got a case. Sounds win-win to me and yes, he should sue.

      --
      I still can't get the screen shots of Castle Wolfenstein for the Apple IIe out of my head.
    27. Re:Would you want to work for this guy? by demachina · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Good for you if its not that way where you work. You're lucky. What do you mean by "surrounded by successful people well past 30". Any of them over 40 and not on a management track? How old are you? I wage you are young. When I was young I didn't perceive the Logan's Run nature of the tech industry. Your best strategy is to score big, early, and get out. What kind of company do you work for? I'm doubting its a startup.

      "When will people get over the illusion that because the current younger generation has greater access to technology, that automatically makes them brainiacs."

      Age discrimination has little to do with this. A university isn't the one and only place you learn the skills you need to do your job. Chances are you will be forced to learn new skills on the job year in year out anyway, or at least you will if you are any good.

      The real dynamics of age discrimination is very similar to outsourcing. The older you are the higher your salary, so you have to have much higher productivity to justify your salary. You also hit a glass ceiling in the company job descriptions if you stay on a technical track, some companies are good at continuing to incentivize you when this happens, others let you hit it and your career stalls unless you are "smart" and jump to a management track.

      The older you are the less likely you are to be suckered in to working 80 hour weeks for 40 hours pay, especially to compensate for the mistakes of incompetent management. You are also less likely to be tolerant for incompetent management because you've seen it before and you know how and why its bad and how the staff pays for it, and the incompetent manager usually doesn't.

      You also become less tolerant over time of senior executive who don't work very hard but loot all the options and bonuses and screw their staff. The discrepancy between executive compensation and worker compensation has reached a truly disturbing and historical multiple.

      As you age there is also a fair chance you've been through one or more projects that have severely burned you out and until you've been there you don't appreciate the permanent damage it does to you, most managers do though.

      To put it another way younger works tend to be more gullible. Most employers like gullible workers.

      If you read the link on Google it says, for example:

      "The strategy has led to a work force with an average age under 30 and with less than 2 percent of employees over 40, according to the claim. Google employed slightly over 1,600 people in 2003."

      I'm pretty sure the employees over 40 are the senior executives and financial people.

      When you hit 40 and if you are still a programmer or sysadmin you may be singing a different tune unless you are very good or lucky. If you are just hacking code there a plenty of young people that can do it just as well, are willing to work longer hours, for less pay and benefits, and their insurance is cheaper.

      --
      @de_machina
    28. Re:Would you want to work for this guy? by Vihai · · Score: 3, Informative

      Other possible damage is a minutely higher power consumption of the CPU - worth perhaps couple cents.

      Don't underestimate the power consumption of modern CPUs. Mine (an Athlon64 3400) consumes something like 50W between idle and 100%. Measure made with a vectorial wattmeter before the power supply.

    29. Re:Would you want to work for this guy? by Thomas+Shaddack · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Not all theft involves goods, some involve services... hence "theft of services"

      Who was the damaged party here? Is it theft when it is wasted otherwise? What's the difference between running Seti screensaver and any other one? Would you complain about a morphing image or dancing Bezier curve? Just because someone else (in this case Project SETI) profits, is it suddenly a theft?

      Pull your head out of your ass, realize the extent of your fucking idiocy, then go fuck yourself with a chainsaw and die.

      Using your own terminology, are you willing to realize that it's a fucking waste to not appropriate the unused CPU cycles to something more useful than nothing - being it SETI, bruteforcing MD5, or folding proteins? Can you understand that not all games have to be the fucking zero-sum ones, that in this case nobody had to lose anything significant to let the SETI project win couple calculated units?

      Sorry, your request won't be granted.

    30. Re:Would you want to work for this guy? by Thomas+Shaddack · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Don't underestimate the power consumption of modern CPUs.

      The modern CPUs are not that common in office environment, where Word/Excel/Powerpoint are the required applications and Doom 3 is unheard of. (The situation is likely to be different on servers, though.)

      Personally, I am pondering trying to underclock some of our newer machines by 10%, in order to reduce the long-term impact of electromigration and heat-related failures (not sure it's worth the bother, though - did anybody actually performed any reliability tests of this nature?). Most tasks in the contemporary office environment are bound not by CPU, but by disk or Net bandwidth or in case of many concurrent tasks by RAM. When it's difficult to find a sub-gigahertz CPU, its computing power isn't an issue anymore.

    31. Re:Would you want to work for this guy? by fatman22 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Company property is for company use, your personal property is for your use. Don't mix them unless there is a written agreement. If you're foolish enough to do otherwise then you deserve whatever consequences come from it.

    32. Re:Would you want to work for this guy? by phreakmonkey · · Score: 5, Insightful
      hat has a negative impact on the machine performance, as the requests come regardless of its load. SETI@home uses the computer only when it doesn't work otherwise.

      I'll address this. I'm a senior security engineer for a major corporation. We, too, have a policy against running any unapproved software on workstations owned by the company.

      There are many, many reasons for this beyond just "negative impact." For instance:

      What if a security vulnerability was discovered in Seti@Home (or any other unauthorized software) and it resulted in a compromise of (in this case) private citizens' data?

      Who is liable if the software causes an outage on the workstation or the network?

      Who is liable if the software causes a breach of security or corrupts the integrity of the data being handled by the state?

      You see, in the case of corporate (or government) resources there is more at stake than just whether the software has a measurable impact on the performance of the machine. If the state wanted to run Seti@home on the machines, it would do the approriate dilligance to do so- including a risk evaluation and mitigation plans (like upgrades / patching / &etc) to do so. By running any unauthorized software, especially network software, without the knowledge of the owning party you are putting their property (and in this case the public's property) at an unneccessary risk.

      I'm sure this is stated in their computer use policy, as it is in ours. Firing the employee was probably the correct action.

      -pm

    33. Re:Would you want to work for this guy? by executioner · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm sure this is stated in their computer use policy, as it is in ours. Firing the employee was probably the correct action. i would agree firing him was probably the correct action, BUT insulting the man after the fact is taking it to far and makes me wonder if there was another underlying reason for him to be fired so quickly with no warnings ( as are the usual for first offences ) with him being 63 age discrimination is the first thing that pops to mind. I would hope that Tom at least gets reprimanded over his comments.

      --
      "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    34. Re:Would you want to work for this guy? by trewornan · · Score: 2, Funny
      as theft, where's the stolen goods missing from?

      Admittedly I don't know what the situation is in the US but in the UK the legal system views "stealing" telephone usage, bandwidth and so forth as "theft of electricity" the missing goods being the actual electrons (theoretically) - OK, perhaps it may not make complete sense from a scientific point of view.

  2. Comment was way out of line by erick99 · · Score: 5, Informative
    Gosh, I would have thought that a a department head for a social services agency such as the Ohio Department of Job and Family Services would have hard time getting away with such a nasty and unnecessary comment such as this:

    "I understand his desire to search for intelligent life in outer space, because obviously he doesn't find it in the mirror in the morning," Hayes said.

    However justified the firing of the employee, there was no reason to make such a denigrating comment about that employee. Smith should file a complaint and Hayes should publicly apologize. I hope that if Hayes ever makes a mistake he is treated a whole lot better than he chose to treat this man. I sent an email to them asking how this manager can behave in such an awful and slanderous manner. If you feel so inclined you can go here and do the same.

    --
    http://www.busyweather.com/
    1. Re:Comment was way out of line by TalkingChicken · · Score: 2, Funny
      I think he doesn't give a damn what he says, he will be retiring this month anyways.. See here: Eweek article

      Quote: Tom Hayes, who will retire as director in October, said Wednesday that in his three-year tenure the department has replaced or is starting work on replacing six of the seven major computer systems running agency programs.

    2. Re:Comment was way out of line by Kpau · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I did the same... I also note that the website has virtually NO email communication points. I find this epecially entertaining considering they have a whole page devoted to the Communication Office and Media Center office... and yet NOT ONE email contact point.
      Says reams about the state of mind at this place.

      I suspect they're going to have a LOT of trouble attracting any technical talent for a while with this kind of anti-intellectual arrogant jerk management.

      That said, the firing was probably justified IF they had a strong policy against unauthorized software... but Tom's remarks were completely out of line and probably actionable.

  3. Clash.... by endersdouble · · Score: 2, Funny

    *winces* context clash! Please, don't mix your metaphors. Star Trek!=SETI. At all.

  4. call him by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    hayest@odjfs.state.oh.us
    T: 614/466-6282

    1. Re:call him by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Thomas Hayes, Director
      Ohio Department of Job and Family Services
      30 East Broad Street, 32nd Floor
      Columbus, OH 43215-3414
      T: 614/466-6282
      F: 614/466-2815
      E-mail: hayest@odjfs.state.oh.us

    2. Re:call him by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Here's his short bio.
      For the address, I guess that's him:
      T J Hayes
      369 Bradley Rd
      Bay Village, OH 44140-1174
      (440) 871-8022

    3. Re:call him by aurb · · Score: 2, Funny

      I wonder what it would be like to have a Slashdot effect on phone...

    4. Re:call him by josh3736 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Bay Village (and the 440 Area Code) is way to the north, closer to Cleveland. It's actually on Lake Erie. I doubt that he commutes 2 hours to work in Colombus every day.

    5. Re:call him by cookiepus · · Score: 4, Funny

      Umm, the busy signal?

  5. Wasting Time by SpaceCadetTrav · · Score: 5, Funny

    This qualifies as "Useless waste of government resources", just like browsing Slashdot. See ya, buddy.

  6. maybe he was... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    maybe he was searching for illegal aliens stealing jobs in ohio

  7. As a taxpayer... by Power+Everywhere · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I have to agree with Hayes' decision (though not his commentary).

    Wasting cycles looking for ET = wasting tax dollars.

    1. Re:As a taxpayer... by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Can you quantify that? Since the equipment was already paid for, the only marginal cost to run SETI-at-home was the electricity his CPU consumed over and above how much it would have used were SETI not running. How much did we pay for the power to fuel those extra cycles? Unless you can answer that, it's not obvious that he wasted a measurable number of tax dollars.

      Maybe he even felt happy and empowered by contributing to what he saw as a worthwhile cause, and the state got an extra hour's worth of work out of him that year. That seems every bit as likely to me.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    2. Re:As a taxpayer... by dougmc · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Wasting _unused_ clock cycle[s]
      To be fair, even with the priority cranked all the way down, such a program does make other programs run slightly slower (and increases overall latency of the system.) Also, by keeping the CPU busy, the OS cannot execute the HLT (basically a nap of a few nanoseconds) operations, which allow it to save some energy and reduce the heat generated. A system running Seti uses more power than the same system being idle.

      And then there's the small amount of bandwidth used ...

      Running programs like Seti and RC5 is *not* free. Cheap, maybe, but not completely free.

    3. Re:As a taxpayer... by zatoichi96 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well it depends on what kind of equipment it was, and what the load is without SETI running.

      Say it was a Pentium 4 that would normally be less than 10% CPU usage. The CPU would then consume about 5 watts without SETI, or about 60 watts with SETI.

      Now consider the extra cooling cost created by increased electricty for the fans in the computer, and for the A/C to cool the room to be negligable, but at least 5 watts. We then have 60 watts extra consumed. This is really 60 watt hours.

      60 * 24 * 7 * 52 is 524160 watt hours a year, or about 525 killowatt hours a year.

      Now say the government pays 8.0 cents a killowatt hour. This puts the goverment of Ohio about $4.20 in the hole a year for running SETI on its server.

      As you can see, Ohio's government is full of America's top thinkers!

    4. Re:As a taxpayer... by imemyself · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I would doubt the bandwidth and electricity used would amount to much more than a few dollars. If people got fired for that, anyone who took a pen from work, or a notepad, could be fired. As could someone who browsed slashdot(hey, it uses bandwidth, and the browser makes your CPU work a little harder). I mean its not like this guys is looking at pr0n, he's using helping a noble organization.

      --
      Every time you post an article on Slashdot, I kill a server. Think of the servers!
    5. Re:As a taxpayer... by Almost-Retired · · Score: 4, Informative

      With all due respect, thats BS. I have been running the client here for about 5.5 years, basicly since the project started, and I have yet, in all those years of running it on a 24/7/365 basis, had a problem that would cause me to point a finger at seti. FWIW, I rank at 99.27+% in the world in seti unit processing. Yes, it keeps the cpu well warmed up, it formerly ran on a old hungry 1400mhz athlon xp, and only if the room was extremely cold did it ever get below 70C. It ran that way for 4 years, finally dying when a video card failed and took the motherboard with it.

      However, let me add my voice to the general sounds of outrage over the fireing of an elderly worker, in this case a programmer. If he was indeed a programmer, and I was very productive at writing code when I was his age but I've faded some in the 8 years of seniority I have on this gentleman, then he was obviously of above average intelligence, and to have the head of the dept make public statements in the manner in which he apparently made them is both very childish and immature on the part of the dept head, and IMO an actionable occurance that the state of Ohio may well have to pay for in the long run.

      Talented people, generally speaking are, even if they are perceived as being a bit abrasive, are often well worth keeping around. They are doing it with me yet at 70 on a part time and emergency basis, more than willing to put up with a sometimes cantankerous old man for the simple reason that when things go to hell in a handbasket, or a lightning strike, having me available reduces the downtime more than enough to pay for the fringies I'm still getting, like health insurance etc.

      Thats not saying that what he did was right. He should have asked for permission and abided by any ruleing TPTB made.

      However, if I were in Toms shoes (and I'm glad I'm not ATM, I don't own any asbestos or nomex underwear) I think my 'punishment' would have been to issue a directive that a) seti be cleaned off the machines by the person who installed it, and b) the person who installed it would have lost the keys to the executive pisser for a week. Further action would have depended entirely on the results of that one. Obviously there may be more to the story that we aren't being told. But thats how I see it, and believe it or not, my employees, when I was full time, all respected me and my occasionally short temper, and do to this day.

      They took that in stride in exchange for the times when I went into teacher mode trying to lessen the daily load on me by passing on the knowledge collected in 55+ years of chasing electrons for a living. I have tried to condense what to many looks like black magic, into the physical laws that govern how it does, or does not work. I've managed to succeed fairly well from observing the results. What more can a teacher do, but pass on what he knows?

      Cheers, Gene

  8. SETI@Home: The next big threat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Because SETI@Home is such a security risk.
    My mother works for the County Gov't, and I've seen some of the spyware infested cesspools that they call computers, and they fire this guy for doing what? Wasting clock cycles?

    1. Re:SETI@Home: The next big threat by aceh0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      there's a difference between installing crap on a desktop system and installing crap on a production server

  9. Why not? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Wouldn't it be useful if we could run these distributed programs on these fast servers when they're not in use?
    After all, they are public servers --- they should be serving the public at every moment.

    1. Re:Why not? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Running SETI@home on a modern computer increases power consumption because these days CPUs use more power when they are not idle. Running SETI on a multi-use system also costs administrative resources (to set it up, to make sure it doesn't bog down the other tasks and if something goes wrong to find if it is the cause of the problem). The person whose account is used will be listed among the discoverers if an alien signal is found, so running SETI@home is not entirely altruistic.

      Yes, those are machines which the public paid for, so they shouldn't be used for something that they were not bought for, especially if it consumes more taxpayer money and benefits one person more than the general population.

    2. Re:Why not? by surprise_audit · · Score: 2, Funny

      You're assuming that actually finding aliens would be serving the public. Suppose SETI finds the kind of aliens that kick the crap out of a world as in the movie Independence Day?? Wouldn't do the public much good if we start beaming back "Hey, over here!!" messages...

  10. Unauthorized software is unauthorized software by Uhlek · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Unauthorized software" means just that. Just because he was in the IT department doesn't give him free reign to do what he wants to with a production server.

    Remember: Those servers, routers, switches, and workstations aren't yours, they belong to your employer. You're paid to do what your employer wants to them, and not do what said employer doesn't want. Nothing more, nothing less.

    If you're stupid (yes, STUPID) enough to flaunt the rules because you think they don't apply to you, you deserve what you get.

    1. Re:Unauthorized software is unauthorized software by elmegil · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And if you're stupid enough to make publically humiliating statements about your (ex) employees, you deserve what you get too. I mean come on; how hard is it to behave like an adult professional and just say he violated policy and was terminated?

      --
      7 November 2006: The day Americans realized corruption and incompetence weren't addressing 11 September 2001
    2. Re:Unauthorized software is unauthorized software by severoon · · Score: 4, Funny

      The real question is, how bad is the thing this guy did? Does it rise to the level of termination? How much taxpayer money did he waste? How much risk to security did he cause? Were there other mitigating circumstances, such as already being told not to do this once before, or did he have several other questionable items on file?

      I've run a few calculations of my own to determine how much taxpayer money he wasted, and I arrived at 35 cents/year electricity-wise. According to a careful analysis and security risk assessment, the mean cost per year of additional security problems due to SETI is roughly 3 cents/year (it would be much lower, but my complex analysis takes into account that this was a production server for the government of an entire state, and we all know that government production servers run calculations that are of great value and importance...this particular production server was most likely figuring out how to balance Ohio's budget heavily on the surplus side so that the state could afford to treat little old ladies compassionately when they cannot afford health care instead of leaving them to die in the street; or perhaps it was about to finish a calcuation that would allow Ohio to do away with gang violence and ensure that would-be gangsters grow up and get good jobs in marketing). This brings us to a grand total of 38 cents/year.

      Now we must also consider the intangibles. First, it is important that government organizations are ruled with an iron fist. Working for the state is not like having a normal job...at most workplaces, bosses are expected to treat their employees with great care and respect. But as we all know, in government organizations, it is far more important to ensure that the governmental workers are terrified at every moment they'll lose their jobs for any reason at all; otherwise, the system quickly degenerates into utter chaos. We must keep government workers in this constant state of fear in order to guarantee that they scurry around and look busy even when they have little to do. This is necessary because if they do not look busy at the foot soldier level, people may begin to realize that politicians have directed an undue amount of funds from the state and federal legislatures to the enterprise-in-question unnecessarily, and these extra millions of dollars are actually of little direct benefit to the people. Rather, it gives the government a place to put money for the current year's budget until the politicians find a way to redirect it to other important state affairs, such as assuaging special interest groups and paying lobbyists in order to get reelected. This is important because if our exalted leaders, who have the best interests of the people at heart and who shoulder an enormous responsibility to them while meeting the highest standard of ethics, cannot secure reelection, the government could fall to corruption and waste.

      There's another intangible here as well. We must ensure that, in order to keep turnover low in the more significant positions, we allow managers in governmental organizations to indulge in behaviors that suit their personalities so they will feel a high level of job satisfaction. In this case, Mr. Hayes' personality is obviously one of vindictiveness and unfairness. In order to keep him satisfied at his job, we should support his right to paint this employee as a man who believes in space aliens and was willing to sacrifice the safety and security of the resources of the state of Ohio and waste hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars to pursue his absurd search for little green men. We must, just for this moment, overlook the fact that this is serious research going on at several esteemed institutions around the country, many of which are public institutions supported by public funds. We should also probably forget about the scientific summits, attended by the likes of Carl Sagan and Isaac Asimov, that addressed such projects as SETI. In this case, it is much better for everyone involved to focus on the fact

      --
      but have you considered the following argument: shut up.
    3. Re:Unauthorized software is unauthorized software by severoon · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'd also like you to tell us about your "complex calculations," since you describe them with such flair and exacting numbers.
      I'd be happy to tell you all about my analysis. First, I--LOOK OUT!!! What the hell was that!? Did you see it? It just went flying right over your head!

      The issue is not merely one of "did something bad."
      I'm not saying this guy made a good choice or that we should encourage such behavior. I'm just saying that, unless there were mitigating circumstances like a history, it's awfully cold to bounce someone right out of a job near the end of their career. It very possibly cost him his pension, and he's not likely to work again. If they really wanted him out, at least they could have offered him early retirement or something.

      Plus, from the way the boss held himself out in public, it sounds like he was gunning for this guy for a while or he's just generally of a dickish nature.

      --
      but have you considered the following argument: shut up.
  11. Stupid, stupid. by Black+Parrot · · Score: 4, Insightful


    It's stupid to fire someone for running this on company/institutional computers (whatever happened to warnings?), but it's also stupid to just decide to run it on the assumption that your boss isn't stupid.

    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    1. Re:Stupid, stupid. by Kenja · · Score: 2, Interesting
      "whatever happened to warnings?"

      The warning is when your employee handbook says not to do something.

      --

      "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    2. Re:Stupid, stupid. by slashdot.org · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's stupid to fire someone for running this on company/institutional computers (whatever happened to warnings?), but it's also stupid to just decide to run it on the assumption that your boss isn't stupid.

      A lot of naive-ness on slashdot today. He got fired for this because they wanted to get rid him. Don't you guys have any experience with an HR department that wants to get rid of someone? They are just waiting for you to fuck up so they have a reason to fire you. It's a lot cheaper.

      So, yeah, you can say he was stupid, but he would have gotten fired anyway, sooner or later.

  12. Conspiracy by Zlib+pt · · Score: 5, Funny

    Finally we have the proof. The state is covering up the existence of ET's I can see "they" now - "One computer less for them to know the truth MUAHAHAHAHA"

  13. He should be fired. He should be arrested! by nlinecomputers · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If I worked for the state and used say a government car for personal use they wouldn't just fire me. They would arrest me for misuse of public funds and materials. This theft just the same.

    Running SETI costs tax payers money if the form of the electric bill and ware and tear on the equipment. I am running on my personal system GRID.org to fight cancer and my electric bill went up $20 a month for just 3 computers. This shit adds up, fast!

    --
    Slashdot, home of supporters of free software, free music, and free speech.Except for Moderators that disagree with you.
  14. Well by FiReaNGeL · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Not a simple computer, a server (as stated in the article). Furthermore, he ran a CPU (energy) intensive (and useless, in my opinion) program on a computer he didn't own, consuming power. Imagine all state employees start doing the same thing. A simple warning would have been enough; he served as an example. Sad in a way...

  15. Been there done that. by LTSharpe · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I had it running on 5 servers at one time at a gov agency I worked for. Soon it got around that SETI was running on 'production' servers and I was told politely to quit running it for all of the common reasons,, misuse of public funds etc. Keep in mind the servers were only using a fraction of their capability doing what they were doing in the first place,, and what they were doing was pretty useless and just bureacratic pork programs on a small scale.

  16. Re:He should be fired. He should be arrested! by lottameez · · Score: 5, Interesting

    dude, there is far more fraud, waste, and abuse in government then this piddling little thing. In the scheme of things, it probably cost more in administration costs to fire the poor bastard and hire a new guy than any expense brought on by the SETI program.

    --
    Yeah? Well I think you're overrated too.
  17. Meanwhile by IvyMike · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The chick in HR who's downloaded the "kitty-cat screen saver" spam zombie is doing just fine.

    1. Re:Meanwhile by SCHecklerX · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'd mod you up if I had the points today and you weren't already at 5. You stated what I was thinking perfectly.

    2. Re:Meanwhile by rusty0101 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think that the general concensus here is that the specific agency in question does have serious problems that need to be addressed.

      Specifically they have hired a programer who installed and operated SetiAtHome on their servers, and have subsequently fired him specifically for that offense. While there are a number of people who think that the act of firing him was unjustified, and others (apparently including the state in question) think it was justified, it's easily clear that for this offense it is not a reasonable expectation that appologizing after the fact is easier than asking for permission. Granted he may have gotten a 'no' from asking permission, but he would not have gotten a 'no job' in response.

      The second great indicator of serious problems that need to be addressed is the statements of this guy's boss. If we can assume that this is not unusual commentary from this person, I seriously doubt that there is an IT technician worth his salt who has any respect for this person, and by extension the people who manage this person. If your IT techs have no respect for you, it doesn't matter what rules are written down, there are going to be a lot of people not following them. Including the people who might want to use good practices and lock down individual workstations.

      Additionally if the 'chick in HR' happens to be the '"hot" chick in HR' who calls in the IT tech and flirts with him to get him to relax the lockdown on 'her' pc, or threatens to report him for Sexual Harassment, forget whether you want to lock down PCs against unauthorized software. It will be circumvented.

      -Rusty

      --
      You never know...
  18. Beh by cookiepus · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Well, mixed feelings...

    On one hand what this guy did is clearly wrong - even according to SETI rules - you're warned not to run this shit on computer on which you're not allowed to do so.

    SETI uses up a lot of CPU cycles and makes outgoing network connections on its own (well he could have set it up in different ways, I guess) so it's dumb to have it run on a government SERVER without getting explicit permission.

    On the other hand - this sort of shit shouldn't get someone fired* - maybe some embarasing talking to followed by an office-wide memo reminding everyone that "in light of recent transgressions, PLEASE BE ADVISED not to do this kind of shit"

    *The stories that I've seen do not indicate whether there's been any prior incidents. Perhaps in this workplace, the "don't install shit on the server" policy is so ingrained into the office culture that someone can't be unaware of the severity of the consequences, in which case the firing is in order.

    But actually I hink the comments by Tom Hayes are truthful (but unprofessional). Someone who values his SETI workunit count to such an extent as to fuck around at work, isn't brilliant.

  19. What about... by hazzey · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What about if someone only runs said program while they are logged on? This really then only affects their own computing, and they are technically using all the electricity anyway. I agree though, servers are a totally different thing.

  20. hayes by jmohlmaster · · Score: 3, Interesting

    http://www.governor.ohio.gov/releases/080404hayes. htm/

    Looks like he's done anyways. For shame!

  21. you're not a sysadmin, are you... by SuperBanana · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's pretty clear you've never worked in a corporate IT department. So the issue is: Was there a policy that prohibited use of those systems for that purpose?

    Any employer worth his or her salt has an item in the employee handbook that prohibits employees from installing stuff on systems without permission.

    Furthermore, and I have to point this out to users ALL the time- the computer they use is not theirs. It belongs to the company, as does the telephone, the power that PC uses, and its internet connection.

    Granted, since the machines were taxpayer funded, this should have raised some red-flags for Charles Smith (the fired employee)

    That would be an understatement.

    , however...... immediate termination rather than a warning seems a bit harsh.

    Not if the employee handbook says that's the consequence. Not if Smith was doing other things deserving of termination. Not if his actions endangered adherence to security protocols, placed sensitive data at risk of disclosure, or caused a department to loose certification. As a professional system admin, the mere fact that he considered it appropriate to install stuff like that on government systems shows his judgment is impaired.

    Any time you are using publicly funded resources for personal use, there should be extreme caution

    I've been a sysadmin for years, and it's pretty much common sense, as in the "don't walk off building tops" kind of common sense, that you do not use your employer's systems for anything you haven't specifically sought authorization for. Reasons, off the top of my head:

    • potential crashes
    • potential security risks
    • resource consumption (power and bandwidth)
    • availability impact (ie, if that machine also happens to be a backup server, or a DB server...)

    I can hear the kids yelling "but commercial software could be insecure too!" Well, that's right- but the difference is that if you're running something the IT department said was OK and the company gets h@x0r3d, they're the ones who take the heat. If it's because you were running some clownish search-for-ET thing or a program that puts a dancing ape on your desktop, well, then you get your ass canned so fast your head spins, and possibly get slapped with a lawsuit for damages as well.

    Maybe the IT department has picked that official program because it's more secure, or has been certified by another government agency. Or they've actually tested/explored its security, or an outside consultant says it's more secure, or the maker of the software has signed agreements that their application meets security requirements of the government agency using the software.

    1. Re:you're not a sysadmin, are you... by Kpau · · Score: 2, Informative

      As a network admin, I agree with everything you said... BUT this Tom Clueless is totally out of line with his comments to the news. Employer restrictions on what they can say about current and former employees is pretty straightforward. Tom's remarks are probably good for a lawsuit that will waste a lot of the taxpayer's money... Thanks Tom... idiot.

    2. Re:you're not a sysadmin, are you... by Vellmont · · Score: 4, Insightful


      Not if the employee handbook says that's the consequence.

      That's just ridiculous. I've seen "employee handbooks" before and they're not the final word on anything. A book means nothing, it's all about what the people in charge are saying.


      Not if Smith was doing other things deserving of termination. Not if his actions endangered adherence to security protocols, placed sensitive data at risk of disclosure, or caused a department to loose certification.


      Sure, but we have no evidence of that whatsover. That only exists in your imagination to justify the harsh treatment of this guy. Please stick to the facts and not what you imagine to be the case.

      And yes, I _am_ a sysadmin. He shouldn't have been running the program, but based on what we know firing him and making assholish statements about him in print is going way to far.

      --
      AccountKiller
    3. Re:you're not a sysadmin, are you... by tsm_sf · · Score: 5, Funny

      Furthermore, and I have to point this out to users ALL the time- the computer they use is not theirs. It belongs to the company, as does the telephone, the power that PC uses, and its internet connection.

      Bet you're a popular guy around the office

      --
      Literalism isn't a form of humor, it's you being irritating.
    4. Re:you're not a sysadmin, are you... by ifwm · · Score: 2, Insightful

      He works in an office where the private records of individuals are kept, and he installed an unapproved program that could have allowed unauthorized people to acces those records. The possibility that he could have violated confidentiality is enough to fire him in any office like this in the country.

      He doesn't have to actually violate confidentiality, just making it possible through negligent behavior is enough to have him fired.

      That's what happened here.

    5. Re:you're not a sysadmin, are you... by Vellmont · · Score: 2, Funny

      Maybe he beats his wife, hates jews, and is a terrorist too. There's no evidence he isn't! Hell, I already hate this guy based upon what we don't know!

      Maybe I'm crazy, but I don't take into consideration anything unless I actually have a reason to believe in it. Imagined justifications for the firing are just that, imagined. Unless you know either of these guys it's unfair to assume there were any straws on anyones backs.

      I'll tell you this though, it does sound awfully bizzare this whole thing even gets in the news, and then this Tom Hayes ass makes public statements questioning his intelligence.

      --
      AccountKiller
    6. Re:you're not a sysadmin, are you... by ifwm · · Score: 2, Informative

      Here's what you don't understand. In the world of client confidentiality, it's not necessary to know. And we do know he doesn't have permission, if you'd bothered to RTFA.

      The standard of behavior for businesses that handle confidential records is much much less tolerant of misatkes, because the stakes are so much higher. If you worked in an agency like this, you'd understand he stepped way over the line. It's just different, and you have to deal with it to really understand how serious it is.

  22. Firing by orange_6 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We fired someone over the summer for running Folding@Home on multiple computers. It wasn't because of what he was doing, but because he had installed and run software that was not approved by the university, and therefore considered a security breach.

    I don't necessarily agree with the firing, but if the rules state explicitly that you can't do it, then don't.

  23. Emailed him by TRIEventHorizon · · Score: 3, Funny

    I e-mailed the bastard!

    Here's the message:

    Good morning/afternoon/evening Mr. Hayes!

    You have just appeared on Slashdot as the asshole of the day today (09 October 2004), the largest geek news website. Expect many many more e-mails and possibly telephone calls and faxes from other geeks like me!

    Use of such software on production line equiptment isn't a good idea in the first place. SETI does not cause damage, but may slow things down. Warning, pay cut, write up, whatnot might have been a more suitable punishment, but fireing the dude and saying:

    "I understand his desire to search for intelligent life in outer space, because obviously he doesn't find it in the mirror in the morning," Hayes said. "I think that people can be comfortable that security has beamed this man out of our building."

    is just uncalled for. And because of your actions, this is now on slashdot and you have basically been deemed asshole of the day.

    Your personal info is in the comment tree of the article such as address, this e-mail address, fax, etc.

    Here is the link: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/10/09/174023 9&tid=126&tid=1

    Good luck!

    --
    "And so the Trekkies were executed in the mannor most befitting virgins - thrown into volcanoes" - Futurama
  24. quite wrong by jeif1k · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There are, in fact, lots of different kinds of "unauthorized sofware".

    There is the kind that introduces viruses, the kind that is used for trading porn, the kind used for trading Windows source code, the kind for sharing MP3's with a million of your closest friends, and the kind that people use for running a side business.

    And then there is the kind that people use to contribute to a not-for-profit scientific effort at a public university for no financial gain, software that only uses idle cycles and is known not to interfere with anybody's applications.

    Unauthorized use of sofware of those different kinds demands different kinds of responses. The use of the latter kind of software use warrants at most a warning.

  25. A post above said Hayes is retiring anyway, but... by Dachannien · · Score: 5, Informative

    Dear Governor Taft,

    I am writing regarding the despicable conduct of one of your appointees, namely, Tom Hayes of the Ohio Department of Job and Family Services. He recently fired an employee, a computer programmer named Charles Smith, for running a program called SETI@Home on the department machines. The program uses spare computer time (when the computer isn't being used, like when a screensaver is running, for example) to do mathematical analysis on data received via radio telescopes by the SETI Program.

    The SETI@Home project is well-respected in the scientific and technology communities, and there was no need for Mr. Hayes to fire the programmer for installing the program on department computers. However, the issue goes much deeper than that.

    Mr. Hayes demonstrates not only a lack of knowledge on the subject, but also an unwillingness to learn about things he doesn't already know about. A very small amount of poking about on the Internet would have revealed a wealth of information on the SETI@Home project, including its endorsement by a variety of educational organizations and industries.

    http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/

    Instead, Hayes indicates his assumption of intellectual superiority with such witty repartee as this quote from the Cleveland Plain Dealer:

    "I understand his desire to search for intelligent life in outer space, because obviously he doesn't find it in the mirror in the morning," Hayes said. "I think that people can be comfortable that security has beamed this man out of our building."

    Hayes's complete lack of tact when dealing with the media over what is actually an unjust firing demonstrates that he is incapable of performing his duties in a way that reflects positively on the State of Ohio, and I hope you will take appropriate action in this situation.

  26. fixed linky by josh3736 · · Score: 3, Interesting
    http://www.governor.ohio.gov/releases/080404hayes. htm

    Hayes was stepping down Oct 1. Why he's still there, I don't know. (Or is Slashdot posting weeks-old news again? No, couldn't be!)

  27. Re:He should be fired. He should be arrested! by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I am running on my personal system GRID.org to fight cancer and my electric bill went up $20 a month for just 3 computers.

    I don't really see it. One Google result showed the difference in power consumption between an idle and loaded 3.4GHz P4 to be about 80W. I pay about $0.09 for a KWh of electricity. That works out to about $5.62 extra per month per computer - assuming that the CPU would otherwise be completely idle for the entire month. This is for a particularly power-hungry CPU, and most would be cheaper to operate.

    Note that the same system (from the source above) would already cost $10.60 per month per machine to run at the price I'm paying, no you're not exactly getting to use it for free anyhow. This has nothing to do with the discussion; it's just a side observation.

    --
    Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
  28. Two things by tomsuchy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    One - the guy was fired, and he's 63; many organizations attempt to get rid of people before retirement, because then the person doesn't get the full package. They were probably looking for a reason, and this was it.

    Two - When media says "computer server", it doesn't have to be a "server" in the sense that slashdotters think. Media doesn't know; this could've been a sparc 10 used to generate a report or something.

    --
    this isn't a sig. i type this (including the two dashes), every time i post, just to make it look like a sig.
  29. Tom Hayes to step down. Can only be good for ohio? by netmask · · Score: 2, Informative

    Tom Hayes is set to step down as director this month. I wonder if he maybe had a personal grudge against this guy.

    Mr. Hayes is apparently as ignorant as he believes the programmer was. I imagine there are a LOT of people who would get fired if all managers were as ignorant as this tool.

    Either way, it's too bad neither of the phone numbers that show up on Google for "tom hayes, ohio" were actually him. I'd certainly love to for him to realize his ignorance.. 24x7.

  30. Misuse? by Quixote · · Score: 4, Insightful
    To those of you who say "public funds were being misused because SETI@Home uses electricity": should we start firing those who leave lights on at night? What about those who don't turn off their monitors? How about those who have their own coffeemakers/(insert appliance here) ? How about those who open their office windows in the dead of winter because their office is too hot (instead of calling the HVAC people to fix it)? How about those who turn up the thermostat in winter above the regulated 68F? Or turn it below 72F in summer?

    Firing this guy is severe and unwarranted. A simple warning should have been enough.

    Since he's a state employee, I hope his union takes up the case and files a grievance.

  31. pinkslip from outer space by Tablizer · · Score: 4, Funny

    Interviewer: "So, why were you let go of your last position?"

    TheGuy: "Well, I was fired for using company equipment to find space aliens."

    Interviewer: "Space aliens?"

    TheGuy: "Yip!"

    Interviewer: "Um, okay, nice meeting you, we'll call you, don't call us."

  32. Should have... by Cyno01 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Been running Folding@Home. Like to see them fire someone for that. "Oh yeah, we fired him because he was using spare governement computer resources to try to find cures and other medical breakthroughs."

    --
    "Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
  33. Re:He should be fired. He should be arrested! by dougmc · · Score: 2, Insightful
    That works out to about $5.62 extra per month per computer
    Ok ... now multiply that by 3. Awfully close to $20, wouldn't you say?

    Also note that some places may pay more for electricity than you do. Here in Austin, TX, the first 500 kW/month is relatively cheap, then the next 1000 kW/month is about twice as much, and the rest is even more. My average price per kWh works out to about $0.10, but using more power costs me more like $0.12 per kWh. (Also, the electric company shows a nice profit, which goes into the city coffers to pay for libraries and such. It's like another tax.)

    As a general rule of thumb, when you try to use real world numbers and math to show that somebody else's estimate is way off, it's a good idea to use figures that don't agree with theirs quite so closely :)

    assuming that the CPU would otherwise be completely idle for the entire month.
    Assuming that a single person owns three desktop computers, and is a pretty typical user, and leaves them all on 24/7, I'll bet their cpus are idle over 95% of the time, unless he runs something like a fancy screensaver or Seti. So `completely idle' is pretty close to the truth. Actually, it's also possible they were all (or maybe two) turned off when not used, but now are left on to run GRID, and that'll increase the power usage greatly. And if he lives somewhere hot, the extra heat generated will require more air conditioning to keep cool. Sounds like he got off cheap at $20/month, doesn't it? :)
  34. Happens too often by Duncan3 · · Score: 4, Informative

    I got my share of calls at 5am from system admins freaking out back in the distributed.net days because I was the DNS contact. We've had people get fired for running Folding@home too. This is actually not as rare as you would think.

    We do everything we can to tell poeple NOT to do this, and they KNOW they are doing something wrong.

    I feel bad for the guy, but only as bad as I feel for people that choose to live in Florida and then bitch about hurricanes.

    --
    - Adam L. Beberg - The Cosm Project - http://www.mithral.com/
  35. Re:Already Gone by paule9984673 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "His tenure at ODJFS has demonstrated once again that he knows how to bring the best of his employees out."

  36. He'll get his job back if he files a Grievance. by Mal+Reynolds · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Most state government employees can easily file a grievance to challenge any termination. No lawyers or representation is usually necessary, but just to be safe he might want some.
    If this firing were challenged in my state, especially considering the derogatory and defamatory comments issued by this employees boss, a grievance committee would almost certainly give his job back.
    I suspect this employee was given no warnings about the conduct for which he was fired. In addition, he probably wasn't violating any direct orders or specific policies. Sure, he was in violation of general policies regarding personal use of computers. But when his boss publically accused him of being crazy, he almost certainly overrode any minor policy violations by the employee.
    In my state, the comments made by his boss would have violated any number of state regulations and policies regarding correct termination procedures. And considering that this employee could sue for defamation, I wouldn't be surprised to see his boss actually fired over this.
    One might ask why he would want his job back? Certainly he wouldn't want to work for this jerk again. Because state governments are large, and he could immediately apply for a transfer to another agency. One where he would no longer have to work for the ignorant fool that is Tom Hayes.

  37. SETI@home Security Vulnerability by Derling+Whirvish · · Score: 3, Informative

    Please read this.

  38. Re:THE HORROR! by Fubari · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Once upon a time, somebody put the seti@home screensaver on a box that was being used as a server to host a little web app. The client started getting customer complaints about timeouts, so I made a trip to their site because nothing funky showed up on pc-anywhere.

    It turned out that when the seti screen server kicked in it starved out IIS. Maybe there are settings to say "run in nice mode" and so forth, but I was less than amused at the time.

    Personal hardware, fine - knock yourself out. Server hardware, not such a good idea (unless it is _your_ server hardware).

  39. Was it SETI specific? by Esion+Modnar · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Would the man have been fired had it been any distributed computing program other than SETI? Was the man already warned? Article doesn't say.

    Maybe the man was a border-line screw-up and this was the last straw. Or maybe he was too close to retirement, lost the political infighting, hit on the manager's wife, who knows.

    It does seem, however, that the manager's ignorant attitude towards the SETI project had a strong influence on his firing decision. To be expected from a PHB.

    --

    They say the first thing to go is your penis. Well, it's either that or your brain. I forget which...
  40. Your sig is strangely on-topic by mangu · · Score: 5, Funny
    Somewhere in Texas... A village is missing its idiot.


    Not in Columbus, Ohio. The village idiot is heading the Ohio Department of Job and Family Services.

  41. Misappropriation of company resources = no job by karlandtanya · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Now, common sense tells me that there's a little more to this story than "dude was running SETI--fire him!".


    But every employer I've worked for has made it very clear that using their resources for non job-related business is a no-no.


    I suspect Buddy had already pissed off el jefe. After doing that, running SETI on el jefe's computer was just plain stupid. Buddy needed to be fired for stupidity.

    --
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, it doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick
  42. I'd have fired him by Pop69 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Unauthorised software on servers ?

    Supervise him clearing his desk and get him escorted out of the building.

  43. Confucius said... by wrook · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "Tzu Chang said, 'What can be called the four vices?'

    Confucius said, 'To put to death without teaching can be called cruelty. To judge results without prerequisites can be called tyranny. To impose deadlines on improper orders can be called thievery. As when giving in the procedure of receipt and disbursement, to stint can be called officious."

    Sigh... More than 2000 years later people still don't have a clue...

  44. Here is what he ran it on. by Ice+Station+Zebra · · Score: 5, Informative

    On Saturday 09 October 2004 4:23 am, John Burrowy wrote:
    >
    > http://www.newsnet5.com/news/3793629/detail.html
    >

    Actually, he wasn't a programmer. He was a database application specialist
    (Oracle). And it wasn't just a server. It was a 4 processor LPAR running on
    an IBM p690, with 6GB of RAM assigned. I've known about the SETI project,
    but who would have guessed that they made an AIX version?

    And contrary to his claim about the system not being used on the weekend, he
    was discovered precisely because some of the other developers were
    complaining about the reduced performance on the system.

    _______________________________________________
    colug1 mailing list colug1@colug.net
    http://www.colug.net/mailman/lis tinfo/colug1

  45. Re:A post above said Hayes is retiring anyway, but by LuxFX · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Dear Mr. Dachannein,
    Regardless of how respected the SETI@Home project may be, those servers were purchased for a reason and running SETI@Home was not it. We find that the employee was vioating policy and his termination was appropriate.


    Dear Governor Taft,
    I am a taxpayer in your state and, therefore, partially responsible for the funding of this computer. I would rather this computer be used to its fullest potential, and I feel that whenever it sits unused, it is wasting tax-bought resources.

    It is common knowledge that computers typically become obsolete before they actually stop working. Therefore, getting as much use out of them as possible before they become obsolete is important. It is the same principle as using any product to its fullest potential before its life cycle is ended. I would assume that, for example, your state cars are not retired while they are still in good shape.

    SETI@Home, and other distributed applications, are a good method of using computers when they would otherwise sit unused. The applications are designed to benefit the public (ie, taxpayers), and is therefore a method where the taxpayer dollars are directly beneficial to the taxpayer. In my opinion, running such applications on tax-bought machines should be required.

    --
    Punctanym: alternate spelling of words using punctuation or numerals in place of some or all of its letters; see 'leet'
  46. Re:A post above said Hayes is retiring anyway, but by technix4beos · · Score: 2, Informative

    You can find an online feedback form for Governor Taft here:

    http://governor.ohio.gov/contactinfopage.asp

    --
    user@host$ diff /dev/urandom /dev/uspto
  47. Re:A post above said Hayes is retiring anyway, but by siliconjunkie · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Mr. Hayes demonstrates not only a lack of knowledge on the subject, but also an unwillingness to learn about things he doesn't already know about.

    (cue Quentin Tarantino)

    Do you see a sign over Mr's Hayes' desk that reads: SETI Scientist? No? Do you know why you don't see that sign? Because being a SETI scientist aint his fucking business.

    Seriously though, your letter is well written and such, but every geek has to respect the fact that they like control over what goes on their system. This guy (Hayes) is the head geek in that particular flock, and he said "no". Granted, I don't agree with him being a dick about it, especially in a media outlet, but regardless, it's not his job to "learn about" or become "enlightened to" the concept of SETI@home software. He's put put in charge of a fleet of servers, his bottom line is the integrity of said servers.

    Does the presence of SETI software compromize the secutity of those machines? No, probably not. But Charles HAD TO ASK PERMISSON TO PUT IT ON or risk the consequenses. He risked them and got bitten. Bummer.

  48. Hayes already gone... by AWhistler · · Score: 2, Interesting

    He left the department on 10/1:

    http://www.governor.ohio.gov/releases/080404hayes. htm

    But the artile listed above was printed 10/9. So this guy's dismissal had to have happened on or before 10/1. I suppose if this thing blows up, this quote "...what I am most looking forward to now is spending more time with my family" may not be as easy-going as he hopes.

  49. Re:Manifeste your outrage to Ohio D.J.F.S by ArcticCelt · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I personally just manifested my outrage about the lack of judgement of Tom Hayes for is public unacceptable comments. This is the address where I encourage you all to do the same at the http://jfs.ohio.gov/feedback/

    These are points that I believe and that I have expressed in my email:

    1-Publicly insulting someone without any reason was unacceptable.

    2-Tom Hayes is a public servant and it makes is act much more critical because he receive is pay from taxpayers.

    3-Charles E. Smith is 63 and I think that we should have much more respect for our seniors.

    4-I support the SETI project as many other million people and because Tom Hayes as a lack of culture, education and sight, that doesn't give him the right to insult is ex employee and at the same time all supporters of SETI project.

    5-They should have give Charles E. Smith a warning; it's not like if he did something with malign intentions. Installing Internet Explorer is probably much more dangerous than installing SETI@home.

    6-Tom Hayes should be sacked for is lack of judgement.

    --

    Yahh, hiii haaaaa! -Major Kong, from Dr. Strangelove
  50. Make your opinion known by dcsmith · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I sent the following messages to Ohio DJFS through their general feedback form form and to the Office of Governor of Ohio. Even though I am a resident of Virginia, the world has grown much too small for us (read: geeks, nerds, techies, etc) to ignore such blatant stupidity. Use those keybords, boys and girls! The more the merrier!

    To Ohio DJFS:
    If there is a more direct way for me to contact Mr. Hayes, I would be glad to use it, but I'm unable to locate it on your web site. With regards to the recent termination of Charles Smith, as publicized in several news articles (http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.s sf?/base/news/1097228025306530.xml) for one, I am more than a little shocked that a Department Head in the State of Ohio would slander an employee in such a manner. If the quote "I understand his desire to search for intelligent life in outer space, because obviously he doesn't find it in the mirror in the morning" is correct, it is my fondest wish that Mr. Hayes be publicly reprimanded by Governor Taft and removed from his position. Even assuming that Mr. Smith's termination was somehow justified (and unless there is a long history of similar offences, I suspect that it is not) there can be no justification for such remarks to be made, and most CERTAINLY not in public. Shame on you Mr. Hayes for the discredit you bring to yourself, the employees of DJFS and the office of the governor. Shame.

    Office of the Governor:
    Governor Taft,

    I am sure you are already aware - or soon will be - of the shameful actions of Tom Hayes, the director of ODJFS with regards to the termination of Charles Smith, a computer programmer on the DJFS staff as chronicled in several news articles (http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.s sf?/base/news/1097228025306530.xml), for one. Whether or not Mr. Smith's dismissal is justified (and on the surface it certainly does not appear to be so) the remark attributed to Mr. Hayes following Smith's termination leaves me shocked and aghast. If Mr. Hayes was correctly quoted "I understand his desire to search for intelligent life in outer space, because obviously he doesn't find it in the mirror in the morning" is correct, it is my fondest wish that Mr. Hayes be publicly reprimanded by your office and removed from his position. There can be no justification for such remarks to be made, and most CERTAINLY not in public. I believe - and certainly hope - that you will hear from the technical and scientific communities, both loudly and publicly, about Mr. Hayes' appalling action. I see no possible way for someone so callous, unthinking and uncaring as Mr. Hayes to serve successfully as the director of an agency like DJFS.

    And no, I am not related to Mr. Smith of Ohio...

    --
    This has been a test. If this had been an actual Sig, you would have been amused.
  51. He grabbed the wrong client. by dosun88888 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Certainly he should have downloaded SETI@Work.

    ~D

  52. Screwed out of retirement by GunFodder · · Score: 2, Insightful

    True dat. My dad works for the State of California, and there is a significant difference in benefits if you retire at the age of 60 instead of 65. Actually the only benefit of working for the State is the benefits; the private sector consistently pays more. Benefits in CA are awesome; 50-90% of your pay for the rest of your LIFE! This guy should definitely sue for age discriminination.

    Disclaimer IAADP

  53. WRONG by alizard · · Score: 4, Interesting
    That is an exactly proper use for the tort mechanism.The administrator chose to attack his employee in public for no reason that a reasonable person would take seriously in a way that any reasonable person would expect to compromise the victim's ability to find future employment in his field.

    The organization that hired the meathead running the IT organization should be forced to pay out a multimillion dollar damage judgement. Unfortunately, this will come out ot the pockets of the taxpayers, not stockholders, but shit happens.

  54. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  55. Not PC by Flower · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Totally agree with you but I have to nitpick and say "Server." That bears repeating. A server.

    The guy installed an unapproved program onto to a production server without approval and bypassing change control. What happens if his little stunt had brought the server down or worse yet the network down and had cost people in Ohio tax dollars? What if the program had allowed a breach that let confidential information out?

    The retort that "It was just the SETI client" isn't the issue. Smith's complete violation of process and gross misjudgement is the matter at hand.

    This reminds me of one 'tard at work who decided that he was going to install MS Works on a server so he could write his school papers. Didn't matter that the idiot was provided a workstation with the latest version of Office at the time. To make matters worse he installs the x86 binaries on the NT Alpha machine we have. So here I catch him sitting at the server merrily doing his homework and of course I have to make a shift report saying that the server has unapproved software on it after telling him to get off the box and stay away from it. He was lucky it happened back then than now. With SOX and all the auditing we have to do now he would have been fired on the spot. Smith reminds me of this guy and I have no sympathy for either.

    --
    I don't want knowledge. I want certainty. - Law, David Bowie
  56. Overreaction by Sean+Clifford · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I've run an IT department in a large company in the "real world" for several years; I've hired, fired, and managed folks. Never would I have publicly humiliated a former employee like this.

    If installing SETI@Home is all he did wrong, I wouldn't have fired him either. I would most certainly have disciplined him and reviewed his permissions/other boxes he's touched. However, I would not have fired him for just that. He made a mistake; point it out to him, admonish him for it, and move on. If he did it again, then I'd send him packing.

    Treat those who work for you with respect, especially when you're disciplining them, and yes - even when you're firing them. They're people, goddamn it - treat them like you'd like to be treated.

  57. Re:Maybe, but... by tsm_sf · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'd just like to point out that expecting a salaried employee to work 10+ hours a day and not use the phone/email/web for personal use is immoral.

    And there's a difference between a sysadmin who "gets it" and one that's a "fucking ass". If your sysadmin cannot gain the respect of the rest of your employees - to the point where they ignore him and he must constantly harangue them - then it's time to get a new sysadmin. There are plenty out there, and not all are total dicks.

    --
    Literalism isn't a form of humor, it's you being irritating.