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D&D Blamed For Stabbing Deaths
Grymalkin writes "A man is in custody for allegedly stabbing 3 people to death in King of Prussia, PA last week. Now it appears that the district attorney believes there may be a link between the murders and the Dungeons and Dragons RPG. From the article: 'I mean, you have many, many stab wounds and those 'Dungeons and Dragons' fantasy games involve swords and knives and daggers and things of that nature. There may be a connection but I can't say for sure.'" Wow. There are a lot more D&D players than I thought there were, what with all the stabbings and all.
All vehicular homicides can be connected to Nascar, right?
Personally, I blame Chris Rock's guns-for-knives program.
The DA is clearly just an attention whore.
...and nothing to see here. Move on.
On a more serious note , The man obviously has some serious psychological issues of which i have no doubt contributed to these murders , the only reason the D&D link should be brought up is in establishing motive if you want to have the man released to the care of a mental health ward
Games do not turn people into psychotic killing machines , they may however shape the style but if it was not the game it would have been some other influence
The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
Had this person not been exposed to D&D, he would have expressed his wish to kill in some other way.
I can't quite refine this one, but: If one has natural musical talent but no formal training and no wide exposure to many different forms of expression, one will make music according to pre-existing patterns and experimentation.
Is this example not similar?
"King of Prussia, PA" -- is that a real town? And here I was thinking that "Medieval England, Iowa" was just a lame joke. Now I'm thinking of getting an atlas...
Someone's gonna post these, might as well get it out of the way:
boots of escaping
axe scuffle
If they prove his bad morals are because of D&D, then maybe they can link bad teeth or eyesight to some other source and my insurance will have to pay for corrective actions, after suing the appropriate game maker?
Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
It was only a matter of time before D&D became a target again for those looking for reasons for homicidal mania... other than the person being a homicidal maniac. Perhaps the same lawyer going after Rockstar will start a new suit against Wizards of the Coast for the families of the deceased individuals. Somewhere in the shadows I can hear Jack Chick cackling...
No penguins were harmed in the making of this post.
Remember Dallas Egbert?
http://ptgptb.org/0006/egbert.html
It could have been Braveheart!!
"Derp de derp."
So if I shoot you it's because I played Doom, and if I stab you it's because I play D&D. What about: Fists and feet Piano Wire Strangulation/Suffocation Drowning Starvation Food poisoning
You Bastard!
... wait... I must consult my dice for my next move.
I'll kill you!
-- Mitch
Manzellanews.com
I thought Prussa dissolved? Aren't we calling it Poland these days?
and who are you then?
I am your King
well I didn't vote for you...
-- Mitch
Manzellanews.com
seems that [SA]HatfulOfHollow has what he wanted at last.
Conservatism: The fear that somewhere, somehow, someone you think is your inferior is being treated as your equal.
I mean, the violence in D&D is typically glossed over (some might say to its detrement -- barbarian heroes don't seem to live up to their Conanic legacy without rivers of gore to wade through). You roll. You hit. You kill the monster or it kills you. The survivors gets on with their lives. Not a lot of description going on, when it comes to combat.
Now The Passion of the Christ... there you have some violence! And no matter how you couch it, as being history, religion, passion play, statement of faith, what have you, it cannot be denied that it presents its violent images much more vividly than any DM ever did. If you buy into the watching-violence-causes-violence thing, then it seems obvious that it undoubtedly causes more RL violent behavior than D&D does. (And kids do watch it -- sometimes at parental behest!)
When is a lawyer going to come out and say that stabbings may be caused by Mel Gibson movies, is what I'd like to know.
I have been trying to institute a ban on D&D in my hometown for many years now, but the nerds just wouldn't listen. I guess one of them finally snapped and went on a murderous rage fuelled by satan and cheetos.
Making the moon less necessary since 1998.
Some googling on Mr. Bruce Castor in Philly brings up:
o/~ Join us now and share the software
my fault for not previewing i guess. "& a m p ;" without the spaces of course :)
I... can't... help killing with my -1 Cursed Mr. Stabby
0- Eamonman Proud member of DNRC
Mike: Hey, Joe?
Joe: Yeah Mike?
Mike: Someone just got stabbed.
Joe: Hmmm.... we should probably blame it on video games.
Mike: Nah, I don't think so. Everyone else is doing that. And some people say there's no proof?
Joe: Well, how about D&D? That's kinda like video games, and it's based on the occult, and Satan is bad.
Mike: Yeah, that might work. Let's go with that.
Once again, Logic Saves:
...therefore...
If
"Violent crime is inspired by media violence" is true;
Games are a form of media
Books are a form of media
The Bible is an inspiration for violence as it contains violence.
Lets see them get out of that. Oh wait - let me guess - there is some law being passed to exempt the Bible for being blamed for anything.
How many people stab in D&D? Any decent combat munchkin will use a sword or battleaxe. And nobody stabs with those. They'll try to get a decent swing.
I guess it's true that D&D is making a comeback, after all, it's been years since anyone blamed the game for anything.
Unless of course he's blaming it on the D&D xbox game...
Or of course the D&D movie. I can see that causing someone to kill.
I couldn't resist posting this.
As we all know, playing D&D and computer games leads to mental deformity, satanism, inbreeding, communism, and foreign beer consumption.
In a similar vein, your son could be a computer hacker!!! Parents beware, do not allow your children to turn into the Columbine trench coat mafia. Lock them indoors with some truly wholesome literature. Make sure that our country does not succumb to this dark menace.
Cole's Law: Thinly sliced cabbage
I mean, they've got all those KNIVES and sharp things and ice-cream makers... of course it's going to lead a few impressionable minds into filleting their fellow students.
Galloping Gourmet or Psycho Killer? You be the judge.
Piano Wire: Hitman.
Strangulation: Dark Forces 2. SWG. KOTOR.
Drowning: Silent Hunter.
Starvation: Ultima?
Food poisoning: Hitman.
So games are to blame for all the wrongs in the world.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Remember the old days when you played D&D on pen and paper at the back of the bus and when you lost you would get really pissed off and grab your pen and start stabbing the prick who bet you!
:-)
What a fantastic childhood I had... those were the days
Tonight, we have a case with stabbing, stealing a handbag, then running away, stealing a car, crushing cops and pedestrian followed with a 150 miles pursuit on E124.
The court has decided to incriminate the D&D, GTA, Mafia, Olympics 1980, Carmageddon and NFS games...
The whole redaction of your favorite 8'clock news magazine has been incriminated in the counter suit after it was proved it was their main themes for the last 10 years....
It takes 40+ muscles to frown, but only four to extend your arm and bitchslap the motherfucker
he was attacking the darkness.
Parent manages to clarify the story far more , with a more intresting link to boot .
Which also helps to make this lawyer look like more of a L'o'ier
The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
Was Tom Hanks Questioned? Anybody remember Mazes and Monsters?
Sorry about the writing. Robot fingers, you know? Cliff Steele in DOOM PATROL #23
Knives and guns don't kill people... know even people don't kill people? Then it must be games that kill people.
I'm going straight home and emptying my son's closet. I don't want him to become a murderer.
So of course they blame that "devuhl wahshup" game, it's in their nature - they're hicks.
[Set Cain on fire and steal his lute.]
This just proves that the Israeli military was right and gamers aren't to be trusted.
them
That's weird. I live right down 202 from there and I didn't even hear about this on the news (I rarely watch it though). The whole hype with using videogames as scapegoats to get away with murder is stupid. You should be shot for just doing that in the first place.
Posts not to be taken literally. Almost everything is sarcasm.
they bring up a lawsuit that shows what the classic game monopoly did to bill gates.... if they do then they win.... but its still stupid
Stabbing deaths have seen a sharp decline over the last 500 years or so; therefore I suggest that we blame "Howitzer" for the increase in those killed by explosions.
"Hi! I'm Gary Gygax, and I'm..."
...who knows? Maybe the guy just crit-failed on his encounter disposition roll.
rolls dice
"glad to meet you!"
That green slime had it coming.
Here come the Chick tracts! Be prpared to find Dark Dungeons stuck under a wiper blade if you park withing a block of a comic book or game store. The fundies will have a field day with this.
How ya like dat?
Yes, but, opposed to other forms of media that reward violence with happy endings, the Bible shows the consequences of God's judgement of sin.
The story off this link was incomplete. In case anyone wants to see what actual journalism looks like, go to http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/news/atlantic/0 32705TRIPLESLAY_M26.cfm
This article is just inflammatory reporting, meant to either tap into the public's scorn for the hobby, or the persecution complexes (either real or imaginary) of the enthusiasts. I would have ignored the article completely if it didn't happen practically next door, while being vague enough so that I thought I knew one of the victims.
Jack Thompson must be saying "damn! why the heck he didnt used a gun or a car! I mean is the 21st century for crying out loud!" he must be writting an anonymous petition to Rockstar right now demanding more knives so he can keep making a living out of suing them.
Go ahead MOD my day!
More opinions here
The DA has just found out that the suspect had recently gotten bagels at a so-called 'Bagel Store' where he witnessed slashing and sawing motions with a sharp knife perpetrated on a bagel as symbolic proxy for a murder victim.
"Bagels may be involved," quoted the DA as he himself chewed on a bagel, unaware of the sinister implications of his actions.
- For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat
As usual, the Slashdot editors are the ones going off the deep end here.
Note that DA Castor says that there might be a connection, or there might not. He's not demonizing D&D, nor are either news agency making it their headline.
We don't know more than a fraction of the facts here. For instance, the D&D link might become a whole lot more plausible if the murder weapon was a "fantasy knife" like they sell at sci fi cons. Or if the suspect's apartment was plastered with knives, swords and D&D paraphenalia. If the guy has a throne of skulls in his living room, you would have to wonder if there was some connection.
Lastly, D&D doesn't create nut jobs, but it certainly attracts them. The RPG club I belong to has a policy of membership by invitation only for that very reason.
All opinions expressed herein are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled.
Sometime you just gotta kill someone after dealing with a prick like that. ;-)
Method of processing duck feet
I guess his cries of "Lightning Bolt! Lightning Bolt! Lightning Bolt!" were fruitless, therefore he had no choice but to turn to cold steel.
I may have believed there was a DnD connection if the investigation had turned up that he in fact did take a five foot steps between attacks and used feats like Improved Criticals, Cleave or Two Weapon Fighting.
Wasn't this same article posted in 1982, 1983, 1986, etc.? (Oh, wait....)
Seriously though, I clearly recall my mother freaking out over my playing because of crap news like this back in the very early 80's when I was in 7th or 8th grade. Its amazing how this "D&D is the root of all evil" horseshit keeps coming back.
Next we'll be back on the Proctor and Gamble has satanic symbols on their product witch hunt...Insert witty comment *here*. I'm fresh out of wit...
After all, most people who burnt witches had access to a copy of the Bible.
I ddin't see anything about the victims being orc though
Okay, let's say for hypothetical sake that we buy the argument that the lawyer is making. There might be a connection.
What sort of character did the perpetrator roleplay? Was he a spellcaster? A warrior? If he was anything other than a thief, he probably never bothered with knives, much less stabbing. When you think D&D, most people think "Hack & Slash" not "Poke & Stab." And heck, even if he was a thief, D&D thieves are more stealth than anything else.
Now it could turn out that his character had nothing but knives - Tons of knives in a variety of shapes and colors. It could be that he had carefully built up his "stabbing" skill. It might be that he had posters of knives, subscribed to knife magazines, collected knives, and had the word "stab" written across his knuckles. Does that sound like someone who was messed up by a fantasy roleplaying game, or someone who is just obsessed with knives?
Why doesn't someone do something about the far less imaginary threat of baseball. We've all seen baseball-bat related violence, and there's certainly no denying the link there. Ban baseball!
Happiness is relative, Based upon the way we live.
But seriously, thats just rather a long shot link (haven't read article). That's like blaming baseball for all them baseball attacks (with all them swinging of baseball bats and all).
On another note, and completely off-topic, can Americans sue anti-perspirant companies for not stopping the production of perspiration for 24 hours as advertised? I have a colleague that by god stinks. Maybe he can be blamed for the inexplicable deaths of local domesticated animals...
When all is said and done, nothing changes...
from what I've heard, the whole thing started with a heated exchange over 3rd Edition vs. 2nd. It got pretty bloody after that.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
it can only be blamed on DnD if the victims had a low AC number.
-andante-
QMO wrote: What amazes me is that many people believe that what we watch DOESN'T affect us Some people may believe that but I personally believe differently and think most people's beliefs are closer to mind than that statement. The belief of which I speak is: Everything we experience affects but we are not lemmings. We do have free will and determine how it affects us. Two people could watch the same violence with one becoming a crazed serial killer and the other becoming a pacifistic monk. I still love the magazine ad they made for Carmageddon where you a car brutally mowing down a pedistrean and it said something to the effect that playing this game can reduce violence because it is a healthy outlet for rage and violence rather than committing the real acts.
"It is not my intent to offend, but if offense is taken, the fault lies with the audience." attributed to Patrick Henry
It was probably the Holy Knife of Stabbin. A +3 modifier is added on all attack and damage rolls.
I guess that means that OJ was also a D&D player since he used a knife. They guy that tried to poison the president over in one of the slavic countries probably played an Assassin character and lost the role-playing idea of the game.
Yup...can never fault the people.
So it seems there is more than one hypothesis in the case. I don't know about you but to me it seems that given a choice between:
1) Mentally unstable man loses it after being rejected.
2) Mentally unstable man simply loses it.
and 3) Man plays D&D and then decides to kill wit stabbing.
that #1 or #2 seems to be a bit more likely. Either way the link to D&D seems so tenuous that the only reasons I can think to mention it are:
1) The DA doesn't want to admit that they have nothing else to go on.
2) The DA is blinded by his a-priori belief that D&D is evil and therefore assumes it is the cause. (How many cases of religious intolerance has he prosecuted?)
3) The DA is seeking a run for public office and the prospect of a good bogeyman to scare the sheep is attractive.
4) 2 & 3
Perhaps I'm cynical, after all it is not like we have proof that he is biased or that he is cynically manipulating things. perhaps 2-4 are incorrect and it is 1: stupidity. You just never know.
Hmm. Apparently the suspect was also involved in internet dating (Match.com) http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/11257848.htm
Any cause and effect there?
Sure you might be filled with anger or lust. But until the last 15 years you did not have so many television shows and movies showing you exactly how to act out those urges. You can see during prime time people having sex under a blanket. I had no CLUE how to have sex until I was about 15. A lot didn't get any information until later than that. Now you can't prevent your 12 year olds from knowing the mechanics. Likewise, you are instructed in a hundred different ways to kill people effectively and how to dispose of the bodies and what techniquest might be used to try to stop you or catch you. Just for example, I know I won't fall for good cop, bad cop. I'll confuse the crime scene by collecting other peoples dna and I'll use rubber gloves. Likewise, I know the most effective killing cuts with a knife are under the armpits and inside the thigh near the groin. If I want to commit suicide, I'll cut my wrists VERTICALLY not horizontally, but I would probably use a car and carbon monoxide. And as far as deviant behavior went, you just didn't know about all the various wierd sexual practices-- now dominatrices are used for humor on shows kids watch. I'm all for deviant behavior- just let's keep it for adults and away from the kids. This information just wasn't out there for your average teenager back in the 70's when I was growing up. And that is not even getting into "modeling" behavior based on people who live in imaginary worlds where they can do all kinds of stupid things without the consequences they have in the real world. I think we hit the kids with too much information too fast before they are finished maturing. The brain isn't even finished growing until sometime after they turn 18. But it applies to adults too. There is just a lot more information on how to act out your urges than their used to be.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
I wish slashdot respected normal paragraph marks. I often forget to enter the
's to break things up.
Anyway. Sorry for the double post.
Sure you might be filled with anger or lust. But until the last 15 years you did not have so many television shows and movies showing you exactly how to act out those urges. You can see during prime time people having sex under a blanket.
I had no CLUE how to have sex until I was about 15. A lot didn't get any information until later than that. Now you can't prevent your 12 year olds from knowing the mechanics.
Likewise, you are instructed in a hundred different ways to kill people effectively and how to dispose of the bodies and what techniquest might be used to try to stop you or catch you. Just for example, I know I won't fall for good cop, bad cop. I'll confuse the crime scene by collecting other peoples dna and I'll use rubber gloves.
Likewise, I know the most effective killing cuts with a knife are under the armpits and inside the thigh near the groin. If I want to commit suicide, I'll cut my wrists VERTICALLY not horizontally, but I would probably use a car and carbon monoxide.
And as far as deviant behavior went, you just didn't know about all the various wierd sexual practices-- now dominatrices are used for humor on shows kids watch. I'm all for deviant behavior- just let's keep it for adults and away from the kids. This information just wasn't out there for your average teenager back in the 70's when I was growing up.
And that is not even getting into "modeling" behavior based on people who live in imaginary worlds where they can do all kinds of stupid things without the consequences they have in the real world. I think we hit the kids with too much information too fast before they are finished maturing. The brain isn't even finished growing until sometime after they turn 18. But it applies to adults too. There is just a lot more information on how to act out your urges than their used to be.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
Scenario, a D&D stabbing:
;_; And we had 6 more injuries to make...
You roll a 7 which selects the Orc Edge Silver Death Dagger.
You then roll a 13 determing the entry wound to be in the upper calf of your victims left leg.
Finally you roll a 20 which means the wound will be all 11 inches of the blade.
Wait.... where'd your victim go? oh no they RAN AWAY while you were rolling dice.
~da
They must have found a +3 dagger at the scene of the crime.
...that the DA blew a simple Wis check.
I mean, how high could the DC have been on this one?
Honestly.
http://augustwestproducts.i8.com
Pretty soon even watching a food commercials will be blamed for obesity.
oh and yeah if you have a car and see a liquor add that means you will be driving drunk soon.
and if you excercise or play sports you will be doing steroids soon.
The problem isn't that there is a game called GTA.
the problem is that society lets stupid ignorant people have children.
If you're not keeping an eye on your kids you don't deserve to have any.
I say we need to have a iq test and those people that can't pass it should be sterilized.
That would solve many of lifes problems.
Like employees of a certain big chain retail hardware store not being able to do 3rd grade math to figure out how to convert inches to feet.
Don't get me started!
I blame cooking. There are lots of stab wounds, and cooking has lots of knives, right? In fact, aren't KITCHEN KNIVES a fairly common weapon? Who ever heard of the nerd stabbing that involved a D+D knife?
I believe it, my brother was killed by a D&D playing maniac. He cast Phantasmal Killer on my brother and all I could do was stand by and watch helplessly as my brother failed his will save (disbelief) DC 18.
At least he didn't use a +1 mace.
In America, you spam computers In Soviet Russia, computers spam you!
People claim that the game ... GTA ... is responsible for people's violent behaviour and may be linked to crimes.
Moving on, nothing to see here.