Slashdot Mirror
MSN Virtual Earth to Take on Google
Jim Bruer writes "Microsoft sends news today that founder Bill Gates has announced a MSN Virtual Earth service is to debut in the summer. The service is promised to provide:
*Satellite images with 45-degree-angle views of buildings and neighborhoods
*Satellite images with street map overlays
* Ability to add local data layers, such as showing local businesses or restaurants
The service will allow users to choose from a number of different data types plus allow people to contribute their own information."
I can't wait until one of these outfits can finally offer the Virtual Ex-Wife Stalking service.
and it seems Microsoft are following, if you have to keep measuring yourself up, you have already lost
Via web-services?
I guess not! Further, with google, you can do cool things like http://www.paulrademacher.com/housing/ and http://labs.google.com/ridefinder.
I betcha MSN's service will not be that flexible. But, I guarantee that it will have all kinds of bells and whistles. (some may really like 45 deg tilt views).
Right now, google works for me. Let's see how MSFT's presentation is, when it comes to fruit!
Listening to TWiT this morning (Episode 6) there are a lot of arenas where Google and MS are going to be intruding on each others space. Leo made mention of a GoogleFS with a focus on searching. Hey, MS couldn't do it in time, perhaps Google can.
So, will Google become the next monolithic organization that must be destroyed by the Slashdot jackboots?
--Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
Yay. A service that offers nothing that Google maps doesn't already do - but with a 45 degree angle.
Try out fish, the friendly interactive shell.
I prefer the very unhyped way that Google launches its services, when they are ready! It seems that Microsoft marketing allready has caught up with Google Maps, now it's time for the programmers to do their job.
What is more important, bug-free functionality or the launch date?
extern warranty;
main()
{
(void)warranty;
}
I think Microsoft misunderstood the concept of 'Not invented here'. 'Not to be invented here' seems their corporate stance.
Score another for Stephenson... His powers of seeing into the future back in the late '80s, early '90s was pretty amazing... I mean this is just another example. How long before we have drive-through places of worship tucked deep in the franchise ghettos?
For the uninitiated, Stephenson wrote about a program called Earth (iirc) in Snow Crash that this is pretty similar to in concept.
THE MAGIC WORDS ARE SQUEAMISH OSSIFRAGE
This seems like a pretty cool thing. The 45 degree angle view looked pretty neat, rather than the same boring straight down shots. The layers of data on top of the maps is pretty neat too, seeing as people have made their own hacks to google maps to do that. Just have to see how it finally pans out when it is released.
> allow people to contribute their own information
So you could overlay a map such as to identify the Chinese Embassy or Sudanese pharmaceutical factories? Sounds like something the US military could get ready for use in Iran!
Microsoft could gain an edge over Google Maps by providing global coverage since the beginning. Otherwise I'm not sure the 45-degree images would bring much added value to the service. Google would probably continue to be #1 in this segment with their yet unmatched UI
Maybe it will give a better view of this thing.
"The looser the waistband, the deeper the quicksand", or so I have read.
With that said. I'm skeptical that "Virtual Earth" is going to be anything more than "Virtual USA" or similar.
Jerks :)
For some reason I get the feeling that there will be a number of pranksters entering things like:
CowboyNeal's house
Latitude: 38.8975
Longitude: -77.03667
"When I die, I want to go quietly, like my grandfather, in his sleep... not screaming, like the passengers in his car."
The information will be gathered directly from uplinks to the human cerebral cortex. Bill Gates was heard commenting: "Never send a human to do a machine's job..."
My 3D Texturing Skinning work (under construction)
Mom: Look! Sue is taking her first step.
Billy: Mom! Look at me! I'm balancing a bowling ball on my nose.
Apple: In Tiger you will have enhanced search capabilities called Spotlight
MS: Forget Tiger's Spotlight, Longhorn will do your homework for you.
Google: Now you can search locations using satellite maps. Nifty, eh?
MS: Google is so 2004. MSN Virtual Search allows you to spy on your neighbor's hot wife.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
//begin sarcasm //end sarcasm
Or tactical planning simulator. How to prepare to blow your city council building in the most efficient manner. As a matter of fact it will be great if someone writes a map converter to load these into a decent flight simulator or into one of the first person shooters. And once again, quite usefull on planning your revenge on that pesky council clerk that did not give you planning permission for that nice cannon tower you were planning in your backyard
On a more serious note, I somhow have the suspicion that some data will be unavailable or deliberately distorted. I simply do not see MSN publishing 45 degree 1m resolution pictures of Vandenberg, Clarke Fields or anything similar.
Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
http://www.sigsegv.cx/
So which is it?
Google sucks because it's US-centric in all it does.
If Microsoft can put a similar service that spans the whole globe (well, at least the inhabited bits and their nearby areas - no need to put up two racks to serve images of tundra & trees), that would seriously leapfrog Google and their limited USA-centric service.
Remember when MS used to "innovate", and kind of be the tech leader (all stability problems, and MS bias's aside).
It sure does seem a lot like they're the "followers" these days...
This is at least the 2nd product I can think of off-hand, which was built to directly compete with Google, and which came out after Googles superior product(s) did. The other that immediately comes to mind is of course, their much ballyhoo'd search engine.
Add to that fact that MS is now working hard at just matching the capabilities to be found in Tiger (even though by the time Longhorn comes out, 10.5's also likely to have been released), and you can see that MS is quickly falling from leader, to follower, in that they're not first to market with ideas anymore. Instead, they're trying to compete with previously established products now, rather than being the innovators.
And yes, you can argue that MS has constantly "stole" ideas from other products, and then profited after the fact, with their own products (Xerox, Dos, even Apples GUI), but MS was the one pushing the techs at that time. Office, Windows, IE, and so on. They now seem much more the "I want some of that action too" followers, rather than the technology leaders they once were.
http://terraserver.microsoft.com/
This thing has been around for YEARS, even before Google (IIRC)... so instead of Microsoft copying google, isnt it the other way around?
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
MSN needs to seamlessly integrate search capabilities within their "Earth" service if they want to compete with Google. 45 degree angles will be, no doubt, very cool and neat to tinker around with. It just won't be truly useful until you can pop in a search term like "Pubs in Baltimore" and come back with locations all over the place.
Moreover, MSN has always had a bloated look and feel. Microsoft will no doubt add the same shiny graphics to it's map service and hinder it's speed. Probably say it's geared towards the internet of tomorrow, when we all have 6 GHz PC's with 4 GB of memory and 10 Mbit internet connections.
OK, that last comment was a bit of a troll, but I just can't seem to think they are going to do anything more impressive than take someone else's ideas and try to make it "MSN shiny." Unless they can compete with the ease of functionality provied by Google's beta service, then they'll fail. Microsoft is a bit late to the party on this one and they have big shoes to fill.
Said services arrived YEARS after their US-centric versions.
Everything they develop is US-centric. Once it's proven to work they might expand it to UK, and after that maybe to other regions. Doesn't matter much for a search engine, but really really matters for a map service...
I wonder where MSN got the investment budget for this, off Microsoft or via their own investment/R&D programme.
I'm still very unclear why what Microsoft does in taking Office revenues and subsidising other elements doesn't count as cross-subsidy and thus be in violation of WTO rules.
Anyone else have a clue?
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
So when can I import them into Sim City? (that would be a kickass version, esp. if it worked in real-time).
Would that mean if you click on the natural disaster button, you would see real-time fires, tornados and earthquakes?
/. ++
This'll give Google enough time to add them to Google Maps before MS's launch date.
The first thing I'll check is, if the blob is present on MSN maps as well. If it is, I'll buy stocks in the nearest tin foil store.
Underholdning.info
Does this remind anyone of Gracenote and CDDB?
Don't get me wrong. This service actually sounds pretty neat.
-- john
Snow Crash was written in 1992, past the time when virtual reality environments were already a reality in universities. Now, don't me wrong, I liked "Snow Crash" -- it was a pretty funny semi-parody of 1980's cyberpunk -- but pretty much every idea in it was already mentioned in such books like Gibson's "Neuromancer" (1984) and Sterling's "Islands in the Net" (1988).
It will be interesting to see what Google's next move will be. This also validates the concept. I'll be sticking with Google though.
I do hope we'll be seeing Google extending their coverage more.
Here are some links to get you started:
- Mapping Google
- Google Suggest Dissected
- Gmail Agent API
I'll assume you know how to find each of the actual google services.I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.
It's MSN.
It'll only run well on IE.
It'll come with a dozen flashing GIFs on the page to "enhance my Web experience."
When Google started Google Maps, one of the coolest things was the scrolling technology. The map database was adequate (not spectactular), and now the overlay satellite data is quite decent but again, not world-beating. But the scrolling works well, integration with the Google search engine is a great plus, and the pages plot cleanly.
MSN has had a lousy look-and-feel since the day that Microsoft debuted it, largely because Microsoft debuted it. It's busy, noisy, hard to use for professional purposes, and it screams "cheap." This "feature" is going to be more of the same.
Actually Microsoft had Terraserver before Google even existed...
My Journal
Does anyone know if either service is planning to have international maps? I'd love to use it for my company here in Japan.
Tea and kung-fu. Life is good. Rising Phoenix
Why would Microsoft do that? It's not their business model. Sure, you may like them to be innovators, but M$'s strength (like it or not) is taking other people's ideas and beating them at their own game - whether through adding more features, integrating it into the OS, or just simply out-marketing them (Win vs. OS/2, anyone?).
Five Dolla Moddy-Moddy?
How cool is it that these companies are competing for the best service to give away for FREE!
It's fascinating to think of all these amazing "free" services we have access to, and how they're actually paid for. All that money comes from a "tax" we pay in the form of slightly higher prices on consumer goods. This tax isn't collected by any government, but by the advertising industry.
In this way, there really is real "value" to Cool Stuff(tm) because the more appealing it is, the more people will see it, and the more valuable it is as advertising real estate.
INsigNIFICANT
MAN Who needs secret services when you have two companies fighting to bring a free map of every city to everyone around the world! After that they'll ask themselves; How comes they knew there was something there to bomb?
Local data layers... sounds nice. Restaurants? Honestly, I don't really care. How about bus service?
Seriously, lots of people take the bus. Many of them own computers. How about showing me the most efficient bus route, based on either the time I leave or the time I plan to get there?
Bonus points: let me define a list of "regular trips," then e-mail me if there's going to be a schedule service outage or a route change that will affect any of them.
"Phantasmo, the TTC has added route ###, which will make your trip to school ten minutes faster! Click here to get the map!"
The US Army: promoting democracy through unquestioned obedience
If Microsoft thinks Google's a one- hit wonder, why in heaven's name do they keep following them??
See also "worldwind" from NASA.
sudo ergo sum
Even if this is a unique service and sounds like it's a good idea, I'd rather wait until a competitor comes along with a similar product. Why? Because of what M$ is all about... their reputation proceeds them. For even if the data formats involved are open at first, once they become a success I do not believe that M$ will be able to resist either adding functionality that only works with Windows, or switching to a proprietary format altogether (No, wait! We're giving away the browser for free!).
I read an article somewhere it was my understanding the 45 degree shots were taken from planes so unless they spend a LOT of $$ in aerial photography I imagine only major cities will get this treatment.
I also don't see a great use for the 45 degree shots other than they look pretty.
I only have 2 comments:
1. Unless it's rendered and updated in real-time, I won't be interested.
2. Hey, who's that up on the roof smoking a joint! I have a shirt like that! Oops!
And off-topic:
Bah! I can hardly read the stupid letters to confirm I'm human. I can only read times new roman...
"I used to have that really cool,funny sig
Microsoft isn't the only copycat company. Google has come up with what ideas of their own? Did they invent the search engine? No, they just made a better one. Did they create the first News aggerator? No, they just automated it. Is maps.google.com the first mapping service? No, and it's isn't nearly best out there (at least not yet). Free toolbar that blocks popup adds? Not the first. Software to archive photos? Already been done.
Google does the same thing Microsoft does. They take other people ideas and try to make them profitable for themselves. They are both highly successful at this, Google just tends to make a better product while they are at it.
when you have the capital, there is no need to take unecessary risks such as trying to invent niche markets. rather, you let other start up companies and competitors create the market, (high r&d costs) and then you enter it later down the timeline. ms has taken the approach of buying out companies with good ideas and market segments they see profitable. they have already changed the way the world operates, now they just have to sit back and invest in new ideas. but i agree, even google is getting too ambitious. i dont want to draw comparisons to star wars. but if ms is sidious, then google is anakin.
I work with mapping software _A_LOT_ for my work and I can tell you that mappoint is just about the worst big box product out there, so I am sure this service is gonna r0x0r.
If you are following someone else, you can never be more than second best. - Peter Normal
Google sucks because it's US-centric in all it does.
... (not to mention Canada and Greenland ...)
5 6&spn=5.119629,7.910156&t=k&hl=en
Actually, there's some quite nice satellite imagery of Iceland, if that floats your boat
http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=64.775391,-19.1601
Terra server doesn't allow "overlays" of roads and routes and doesn't allow you to look at buisnesses in the area. Terraserver is in Black and white and includes topos, and doesn't include scroll and other javascript goodness.
Terraserver was just a way for MS to demonstrate its server/database software. Thats it.
I guess this is just typical Slashdot pro-Google cheerleading.
Disclaimer: I work at MSN.
...because then Microsoft would out of habit.
Hey MS! How about coming up with an original idea for once?
There must be some sort of surgery or brainwashing you have to undergo to work at MS that keeps you from being ashamed about copying other people's work.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
There is nothing wrong with copying, especially when you could add or improve upon features of the original.
I mean, if you didn't, there'd be no choice and no competition.
There would be only one brand of cars (all but the original car manufacture would be copycats)...
People need to get past the idea that companies can only come up with original ideas.
Copying creates competition and enlarges the market and give people more choices. Thank goodnes for all of the iPod clones.
The first (free) online mapping system where I can tell it to pretend a segment of a road doesn't exist and create a map with that and/or allows me to create a multi-point directions list will be my new favorite.
With the way traffic is in the DC area, pretending specific segments of road don't exist is about the same as if it didn't for driving purposes. (Except for those who are parked, i mean driving, those areas.)
IMarv
Trusting software vendors is no smarter than trus
It strikes me that there is a real war brewing between Google and MSN. No big deal, except that MS will be stealing a lot of ideas not only from Google, but from partners. At least that is how MS has operated in the past.
But in doing this, MS will wipe out these little guys. Basically, MS will use their partners as cannon fooder to take on Google.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
PAID PLACEMENT.
This has been true from the yellow pages to Yahoo Maps to now. These services don't show what's there; they show only that subset of things they want us to know about. When a mapping service shows ALL businesses, not just those who pay, we will flock to it.
"We reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals." --The American President (20.1.2009)
I wouldn't be suprised.
Although MSN.com has a web standards approach, with Mozilla many MS sites are crippled (spaces.msn.com, www.microsoft.com/sharepoint/) or explicitly IE-only (windowsupdate.microsoft.com).
Google maps doesn't use web standards either but it works beautifully in Mozilla any nearly so in Opera. Including the semi-transparent PNGs. I'd be suprised if Microsoft makes such good support for the other browsers.
There is an interview with the Virtual Earth team on Microsoft's Channel 9 website.
Hey, Bill - what you're saying sounds really cool and all... but how about showing us a product you've got now, rather than telling us about the groovy stuff you're gonna have someday?
#DeleteChrome
TWW
"Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
"MSN Virtual Earth to take over Google"
I was like - Bills built an MSN themed Earth to take over Google? Wow!
R.
I think its more interesting how these are released, and how MS is taking a bigger risk.
Google didn't tell anybody. They just added a link to their maps page and said beta. No anouncement, nada. Just a working product, and no expectations.
Microsoft is making an anouncement before they are putting a working product in peoples hands. This may create a lot of expectations, and they will get more critical treatment when bugs are found, if they miss the release date (not MS), etc.
However the MS product turns out. Google will probably end up looking better because they simply released a working service. They didn't hype it up and generate false expectations.
Either way, I think we win as these companies fight one another by making their offerings and products better.
----- If communism is a system where the government owns business, what do you call a system where business owns govern
Why don't you just give up? The whole world is waiting for you to come up with an idea *on your own* AND *implement it yourselves*.
Bah, even Google doesn't do this. Buy this company, buy that company. At least MS isn't buying a company like Keyhole to do this, like Google is doing with Google Earth. Who's less evil there? Besides, MS had web-based maps since ages ago via terraserver.microsoft.com with a simple address search feature. Granted, not as advanced as Google Maps, just saying you're on thin ice if complaining that companies aren't coming up with own implementations and ideas. MSN Virtual Earth will AFAIK be an own engine implementation, and Google Maps is anything but the first map service to reach the web.
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
I can't wait to witness the reaction of pro-google activists when they learn that Microsoft is spying on them via their evil satellite!
A computer makes it possible to do, in half an hour, tasks which were completely unnecessary to do before.
In fact, M$ has ALWAYS followed. Any other way is too expensive.
They let others bust their balls trying to develop something that survives out there in the market place.
If and when it does, they swoop in, 'integrate' it into their system and steal the market.
Their R&D is not for 'creating new products' but 'how to integrate new options' as there come up.
They are quite content to let others do the innovating and they take the cream of the crop and then produce a knock-off which takes at least three tries 'till it works.
That's how you make money. And the worst part is that is the strategy for maintaining 'world domination.'
Notice how long Longhorn has been in the paddocks?
Microsoft is waiting for a credible threat until they release Longhorn. The threat is not here yet.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
So... Google isn't a copycat? They're the first to ever create a map service? Maybe they're the first to implement search technology? Perhaps they're the first to implement free webmail? Just out of curiosity, are they the first to have customized portals?
I'm a fan of Google as well, but we need to stop holding them up in a holy light. They're just another company that knows how to make standard things pretty.
The greatest experience we can have is the mysterious.
- Albert Einstein
Unless they invented semi-transparent-building-photo technology, I don't see how they will show any city downtown?
839*929
but M$'s strength (like it or not) is taking other people's ideas and beating them at their own game
No, Microsoft is not "beating them at their own game", they are just using one monopoly to accumulate vast amounts of cash, then use that cash to cut off their competitors' revenue stream and drive them out of business, and then establish a new monopoly in that market, too. There is no innovation or good business strategy involved.
In fact, that formula has been used for hundreds of years by many potentates, monarchs, feudal lords, corrupt religious organizations, and business empires. The opposite of that excess is another excess: communism. In order to avoid either excess, Western nations built up a system of democratic rights, social reforms, and business regulations. For some obscure reason, societies are bent on dismantling all of those again. We are about to repeat serious mistakes of the 19th century, and 16th century, and god knows what other centuries.
The problem is, more and more it seems like providing a presentation/UI that doesn't stink out loud is innovation.
To take Google maps as an example - I hadn't found a website that provided streetmaps of the UK with a decent UI. The existing sites would scroll (sorry, page) unreliably, often sending you somewhere that is almost, but not completely, unadjacent to your last view. And let's not forget their favourite - limit the map to a goddamn postage stamp, even though I have a 1280x1024 display, and surround it with distracting garbage.
With Google maps, it's simple and clear, I can maximise the window and the map fills the screen (shock horror!), scroll around as quickly or slowly as I like, and zoom in and out to the level I want, etc.
In some ways, you could say that this is the definition of innovation. Yes, it's obvious, but no-one else seemed to be doing it. (I've seen some better sites since Google Maps launched - that pre-dated Google Maps - but they're still not as simple and easy to use).
I'm reminded of something a friend once said about the iPod - that when the iPod was launched, everyone agreed, yes, this is how mp3 players should be designed and work. Everyone, that is, except all the other companies who made mp3 players.
My point is, some companies/websites will look at a site like Google Maps, and just not get why it is better, and just bitch about how they've been doing maps for ages, so what's so special about Google?
Oreilly radar has an excellent interview notes on the Bill Gates interview with Walt Mossberg, who asks Bill some Not so softball questions, from tablets not doing well to Media Center, to yahoo and google comparisons. Its quite good.
r om_bill.html
http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2005/05/notes_f
near the bottom:
WM - What's the difference between what you're doing and what google is doing?
We've been doing this a long time. The pictometry deal is an
exclusive. But there will be a lot of competition.
WM - so you're going to look up and see a Microsoft plane, a
google plane, a yahoo plane!
Why always announce you are going to do something, in the date-to-be-determined future, instead of just unveiling it the day it's due? The Way MS is doing it, if there's a delay, you look bad. Google announces it, and then provides a link where you can try it. I think that gets them a lot of positive buzz - a lot more than a multi-million dollar ad campaign, like for MSN Search IMHO.
Random rants about technology: http://technorants.blogspot.com
But how long until it can overlay the map with the red arrows emanating from Redmond, and play the martial marching music, and the rousing speeches about liberating the world for the Fatherland?
www.eFax.com are spammers
They were the first web brand to become a verb, but that's not why I like them.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
Actually, the first generation of this technology was developed by Microsoft. It's not as nice as Google sattelite maps, but it is older. It's called TerraServer and it's still in operation now. If anything, Google copied this idea and refined it. Microsoft TerraServer
Has anyone tried World Wind from NASA? http://worldwind.arc.nasa.gov/
Good geographic data for projects I'd like to hack is impossible to get for free- commercial version exist for about my yearly salary. What I'd like to see is Google and/or MSN making it easy to access these new data layers. It might help to change the balance of power with the map resellers that could want to impose strict guidelines on re-use.
Information: "I want to be anthropomorphized"
What amazing predictive power: stuff that already existed when the book was written would get cheaper. Yeah!
...do they mean the whole planet or just the US and/or Europe?
I certainly like Google Maps better than any existing mapping service I've seen.
Which ones do you consider better, and why?
D
Give Google a break--it takes a while to negotiate all the agreements to get the mapping data for other nations.
I think Google is trying to beat Microsoft using the classic cold war economic strategy.
We used to do a lot of crazy things to make the Russians think our military was bigger and more mobile than it really was. As a result they had to keep spending enormous amounts of money to try to "keep up". They eventually drove their economy into the ground.
Google, gives its workers 20% time to work on personal projects. Some of these go live. Their search cluster basically gives a project unlimited disk and cpu.
When a project goes live, it comes as a surprise. Microsoft, (and others) finds itself caught off guard, and has to work feverishly to make a "better" product before they even have a competing or functioning one.
Since the projects start off as "personal" projects, and considering the number of employees, even corporate espionage can't be very effective, at getting a heads up, because of the noise ratio.
The last part of the strategy is the quiet, surprise releases. No advance anouncements, no press conference or press release. Just a simple link. The media goes crazy because there is a new link on a google page. They get a reputation of producing instead of promising.
The satelite imagery is a great example. They buy a profitable business, Keyhole, and leverage the access to imagery and for a small amount of development effort, integrate it into the mapping service in a very similar way that the mapping service already works. Even though the satelite stuff in maps might lose money, Keyhole is still earning them money. The imagery becomes a value-added feature.
----- If communism is a system where the government owns business, what do you call a system where business owns govern
I know this is a bit offtopic, but I'm curious -- how come Microsoft has to compete with everyone who's making good progress in particular areas? Do they have a team of people who do nothing but read technical articles and news to see what everyone else is doing so they can target them as a potential competetive prospect?
I'm not a Microsoft basher, nor am I a rampant supporter of them. I have an XP machine at home for gaming, and a Mac for pretty much everything else (OSX for the win!).
"I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
-Hoban Washburn
I liked the book Snow Crash. It has some very interesting ideas.
I like this idea of multiple overlaid data sources. Thought it was useful in the book, we'll have to see what happens in reality.
I think it would be really cool to have flightgear generate scenery from all this new satellite data.
I've been reading all the replies to this, which quite rightly defend Microsoft by noting that they have already had the basic elements of this before.
It made me wonder why it still felt like your comment was valid on an emotional level. Other web sites have, in fact, integrated maps and satellite images - just not nearly as effectively as Google. The effective integration is why we love Google maps.
Well, I realized what the reason was and thought I would share it. Microsoft should do things to catch up with Google; that's capitalism at work. But they go out and brag about them as though they're the first people in the world to do it. If you read Bill Gates' interview in isolation, you'd think he invented these ideas. Google's already implemented them; MS is playing catch-up, but having the nerve to claim that they're innovating by creating something individiual.
I think that creates a perception in the mind of the guy on the street that Microsoft is more innovative than it really is.
It seems especially interesting in comparsion to how Google does product introductions. They slip stuff on their site in the dead of night and rely on people to discover them and spread the word. This works because most people admire Google and are curious.
I don't think that many people are looking at all the cool new things on MSN, so Bill has to talk them up.
D
One method might be XAML.
I don't doubt that MS will try to leverage XAML against Google (not to mention Firefox, and the web stanards world in general), but I think they will fail.
Certainly XAML will be able to do some cool things, but it takes more than technology to create good interfaces. I don't see Microsoft being able to produce anything that is cool enough to draw people away from Google.
Also, as far as speed of development is concerned, Google has a ton of cross-platform javascript code it can use to streamline development. For all we know they could have their own development tools by now. I know when I write JavaScript it tends to be more cut and paste than actual typing. Contrast to XAML which will be much easier to develop, but is also immature and without deep developer knowledge. That will cost Microsoft a lot of dev time to get their web services up to speed.
Not to mention that any Longhorn-only web apps are going to be a non-starter for at least 3 years (possibly forever) after Longhorn is released. Microsoft's only real option to make the standard js/css version and add an XAML-enhanced version for Longhorn users. Admittedly this could be a huge draw for Longhorn users if done correctly, but Microsoft is so big and clumsy that I have to put my money on Google.
On a side note, XAML is cool, and xhtml/js/css can be a huge pain sometimes, but I'll be damned if I'm going to invest my time in a proprietary technology that lives and dies at the whim of marketeers in Redmond. I believe (and hope) that XAML is too little too late, and web standards will be too firmly entrenched for Microsoft's little gambit to pay off.
See these cool sites:
http://www.fourmilab.ch/earthview/
and this:
http://www.fourmilab.ch/earthview/satellite.html
Lots of fun playing with that that, hope the MS stuff is even better.
Oh well, what the hell...
Look at the big white building to the northeast; it's shadow is definitely sourced from the south, just like the silver blurry thingee.
As far as the pin goes, I doubt this photo has ever seen a physical medium. It's a digital satellite photo; why would google (or anyone, for that matter) go through the trouble of printing it out and scanning it back in?
That's a cool photo, whatever it is.
Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
Google sucks because it's US-centric in all it does.
Oh, did Canada and the UK finally get annexed? Good to know, thanks for telling us!
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
"Microsoft is waiting for a credible threat until they release Longhorn. The threat is not here yet."
Let me correct a spelling error you made:
Microsoft is waiting for a credible build until they release Longhorn. The build is not here yet.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
... that I can use with my GPS on linux. A way to easily download a map, or series of maps, and be able to dump my track to it. I'm unhappy with the quality of maps that are easily usable for this to date.
Granted that was from their marketing dept, but it sortof stuck.
I have to netflix dvds
I fark
Hell i even say i slashdot
I'm really excited about this competition for services. I knew that if we all had faith, companies would actually compete and make better things that add value for normal folks. There were all those naysayers and regulation happy people--sure, that stuff works like, 90% of the time, but where is the fun? Give me my pollution and gutted startups and raided trust funds-- can you smell the free market? A lot like burning hair with a nice layer of vanilla that doesn't quite cover up the previous scent.
Too bad one of them is going to have to win, then patent everything to death and the charge through the nose on 15 levels once they have "lock in".
Just makes it all the more exciting to have that rare blossom in the poop pile!
>>"ad space available -- low rates!!!"
Which of the below options would you choose:
Option 1 (Microsoft):
*buy* a program, install it on your machine, wait for it to start each time you want to use it, keep the CD around in case you want to re-install it, spend hours talking to customer support about *your problem*, or
Option 2 (Google):
get a free program immediately accessible as a web service?
I'd go for the second one. The price I pay: innocuous advertisements. I can live with that!
The mapping software is a good example of the differences in philosophies between Microsoft and Google. Microsoft has to stick with its desktop model, since that's where all their money is. Google has to stick with the web-service model, since that's where their money (and advantage) is. Based on the above discussion, I'd give Google a better chance of success.
I hadn't checked out google maps until MS announced that they're going to crush google maps. Maybe google should send a $1 to MS for advertising.
Satellite imagery is becoming ubiquitous. Forget Google and MSN, use a free solution:
http://worldwind.arc.nasa.gov/
I wonder if NASA's budget woes weren't imposed by our legislature because they give away their goodies for free, instead of trying to generate revenue with their technologies like good little capitalists. Ugh, what a thought for 8am...
Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. -- Mark Twain
And their levels of military spending were unsustainable, would be the point, not that they went up in the five or ten years before the fall.
(The five- or ten-year window thing is more about people who desperately want to give all the credit to Reagan, which is such a waste of airtime that we don't need to bother with it, do we? "Ooh, Ronny's swagger terrified the Russkies." Puerile, politicized dreck.)
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
wow, a new vapor thing that's going to be much better than google's real thing.
I think gates is just fucking with slashdot, he merely opens his hole and it shows up here.
o Keep your mouth shut
- This keeps you from promising more than you can deliver
- Keeps expectations non-existent
- Creates "mystery", which means free press as people speculate
- The press watches your site like a hawk, looking for any little new thing
- The quieter they are the more free press they get, can you say cheap advertising
- Google PR campaign, four letters, STFU
o Cheap inovation by giving employees 20% personal project time
- Make use of "wasted time", most employees are not working for more than 20% of the day anyways
- Generates a large pool of ideas with working POCs instead of WAIs
- Encourages employee skill development
- Makes corporate espionage impractical due to high noise to signal ratio
- Gain inovative ideas to turn into products and services
- People love working on "their own" idea", thus work harder
o Release products, not promises
- Surprise the competition
- Nobody acuses you of missing your release dates
- You get a reputation for delivering working products
- Nobody acuses you of producing vaporware
o Leverage existing hardware/software
- Google satelite uses much of the google map code
- The cluster used for search indexing leaves lots of CPU and disk space for other things
o KISS
- Simple things have fewer bugs
- Simple things are easier to manage
- Customers like things uncomplicated and uncluttered
o Be nice
Notice they said nothing when "google suggest" or "google maps" was dissected. This is the opposite of Apple and MS policy of sue first, ask questions later.
It makes people thing you are cool
----- If communism is a system where the government owns business, what do you call a system where business owns govern
Where exactly where has this been shown "all over the place"? If anything, google sighseeing seems to discredit this theory.
It depends on what I need. If I am going on a long trip, I use MS Street and Trip as it can configure the route for things like speed limits for different roads, road construction, fuel stops, rest areas, hotels, etc.
If I am looking for a service though, yahoo maps and their yellow pages service kick butt compared to Google's map / local service.
If I want good satalitte imagery and a truely staggering amount of information, I use PortlandMaps.com. While it is local to Portland, Oregon, this has anything and everything I could ask for. Crime maps, Satalitte / Arial imagery down to 6 inches (much closer than Google's). Property value, planned road improvements, Public works, sewer and water lines, school districts, Census information. They give me information that neither google nor microsoft could provide nationwide, let alone worldwide.
Which was shortly before our own "military industrial complex" discovered, in ghosts of the cold war like Iraq and Afghanistan, a rationale by which it could continue the colossal spending rates of the past, driving our own economy to the brink of Argentina-style fiscal collapse too.
"Chicken" is one of those games where you both can lose. Which, getting back to the point, might be a little lesson for Microsoft and Google to consider -- if that's really how they're thinking of these features. (MS does fit the model -- they're the bluffer of all cold war bluffers when it comes to announcing products and feature sets. Just announce there'll be a product, and the market space tends to clear. I don't see Google's mindset that way at all, personally. But maybe that's naive.)
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
Microsoft/MSN/Hotmail are always behind, always late and always promising.
I still want my 250MB. I have my hotmail account (just because my friends use msn) since 4 years ago and still have 2MB? Come on 2MB?!
Yahoo and Google, they are really innovators!
Get my e-mail after a captcha test in: http://tinymailt
Microsoft has had Terraserver since the 90s, and I don't remember when MS Maps and Streets came out, but it was quite some time ago. Granted, Google Maps is a much more polished web interface, but Google is hardly the first entry into the mapping space. Microsoft isn't either - ESRI's been around longer than my grandparents I think.
Anythiong google offers, MS feels compared to offer. I wish Google would just go nuts with this and offer a new, absurd service every month, along with their real offerings.
Maybe Microsoft would implode trying to copy the silly products.
It's a variation on how the US bested the Soviets with the SR71. We never released official max speeds. We just went faster. Then we'd wait. Eventually the Soviets would have a new prototype that was faster enough to chase the Blackbird. We'd wait until they put it in production, then just go faster.
I don't know if anyone knows the max speed of that aircraft, but it certainly helped bankrupt the Soviet Empire and bog down its designers.
Is this 45 degrees only from the south? north? east? west? All directions?
Is it from the equator, at which point the viewing angle would change as the latitude changes -- meaning 45 degrees is just a number thrown out by marketing.
Knowing Microsoft, I'd have to interpret from this article the worst case scenario for the feature: an equatorial view from a geosynchronous satellite.
On-line Music Store? Apple got there first. M$ is working diligently.
Comprehensive Search Engine? Google got there first. M$ put in a shot, but is failing.
Tabbed Browser? Every other browser got their first. M$ followed... eventually.
Digital Music Players? Apple got there first. M$ is still trying...
Ad-ware scanning to fix their own broken and / or crappy software? Many got their long before the eventual "Microsoft Antispyware."
The list just goes on and on. Name one thing that M$ has developed.... ever? They have always just tried to ride on the coat-tails of every great idea since the inception of the GUI. Even if M$ were to do a good job at somebodies else' idea, who cares? They are still too late. My only question is still why they ever got so successful for doing nothing and making a second rate product. I understand their supremecy now, because they can strong-arm people, or just buy them out... but it's got to end somewhere... I hope.
So at first it will just be low res jpegs from Encarta maps, and it will be very clunky. It's just designed to scare people out of the market. Wait for version 3.0
I have nothing to hide. So, why are you spying on me?
It seems like neither Google nor MS is really innovating much on this; granted the scrolling ability is cool with Google, but web-based GIS systems have been around for a long time, such as ESRI's ArcIMS, Autodesk's MapGuide and myriad others that support Web Mapping Services (WMS)
If I wanted to, I can download ortho photos of the entire United States from the USGS or from the USDA's NAIP program.
I guess is seems that these days it's actually pretty easy to build and manipulate web based GIS systems, so I'm curious to see what the next Big Thing will be. Maybe better integration with mobile devices?
It's "no one," not "noone." Who the hell is noone anyway?
That's because MS moved the site. I'm not sure why, except maybe that they wanted people to know that Terraserver was an MS thing (it's not like they can't fork over the $6 or so a year to renew the domain name).
http://terraserver.microsoft.com/
Per Square Mile, a blog about density
If you work at MSN, you may have known that the main content provider will be Pictometry International, and that MSN will most likely be doing the publishing.
See article in todays WSJ.
MS definately does not use ESRI's software and is years behind the power and flexibility ESRI's suite of desktop and server tools provides. See ArcWebServices project for some really cool stuff. Street maps and satellite imagery are only the beginning. Try overlaying any number of datasets along with "live" data including traffic, weather, crime, etc. etc.
This model will differ from the real Earth only in that Bill Gates actually is the most important person in it.
--
make install -not war
I can see into Angelina and Brad's bedroom?
Where's my vidcam?
"Satellite images with 45-degree-angle views of buildings"
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
Microsoft World--what else?
Cthulhu for President! Why settle for the lesser evil?
Not knowing that ms "innovated"/"invented" terraserver, I tried to "google" for "microsoft buys terraserver" and "microsoft acquire terraserver" but stumbled upon this:
t erraserver&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&start=10&sa=N
r aserver&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
l sID=90
s iness/columnists/dan_gillmor/10179377.htm
/ special_packages/11622441.htm
microsoft acquire terraserver:
http://www.google.com/search?q=microsoft+acquire+
microsoft buys terraserver:
http://www.google.com/search?q=microsoft+buys+ter
http://www.esj.com/Features/article.aspx?Editoria
"BARC was chartered to develop scalable server technology, and its most visible product was the Microsoft TerraServer. Launched in 1998, TerraServer, which currently runs on a Windows 2000 SQL Server cluster, is existing proof that Windows can reliably serve terabyte datasets to a worldwide audience."
Now, this second bit (excerpts from Dan Gillmor of SJ Mercury News:) is slightly off-topic or dated, but it talks about ms competing with Google and settling (cumulatively $3 billion) with companies it "trampled over"..:
http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/bu
"Linux and other open-source software remain the best hope for actual competition, at least in more traditional computing markets. More and more corporate customers are finding open-source at least a plausible alternative.
Microsoft has been forced to lower its prices and offer cheaper versions of its products in several countries where Windows and Office are prohibitively expensive in local terms. If this spreads, it's a good sign. China's Linux push, meanwhile, is adding some pressure."
Now, see:
http://www.jackphelps.net/
which is a CC (Creative Commons) site that has a blurb on Google buying some technology named "dodgeball"...
AND, see:
http://www.broward.com/mld/siliconvalley/business
"Microsoft in deal to launch MSN China"
wherein ms buys "certain technology" from China...
"Microsoft already offers its MSN Messenger instant messaging service and the MSN Hotmail e-mail service in Chinese, but said the new venture will deliver more comprehensive communications and information for the 94 million Chinese who were online in 2004."
I wonder how much of this deal includes a demand to embed citizen tracking technologies into cellphones beyond what is normally possible for cell carriers. PRC might be "PeepHole Remote Control" (pun...intended...)
Bon Read-a-tit...(pun... intended...)
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
The international Terraserver http://www.terraserver.com/ is a pay service, unfortunately.
Strangely enough, even Google's images for Asia are quite limited. Is this due to a lack of public domain satellite images, or just not enough demand for them to put it up?
There is a startup out there that has a sevice up and running with maps and commercial entries that runs on Palm Pilots and soon other small Java based handhelds. And the client sevice is free. Works with GPS enabled boxes as well (see the list on their site).
http://www.earthcomber.com/splash/index.html
They have done a pilot in Minneapolis. They have extensive maps and parks and historical sites loaded and hooks for not only for commerce but for special interest adhoc communities. War Drivers, birders, Civil War buffs etc.
If you haven't checked out http://www.keyhole.com/ I really suggest it. There is a seven day free demo, and after that if you wish to buy it it's somewhere around $20/year.
This is a full 3-d map of everywhere. Kind of like nasa's free world wind program, but MUCH better including an improved GUI and the ability to overlay google maps and see businesses and any level/combination of user bookmarks.
The ability to change perspective on the 3-d engine means you can look at mountains from the side, or see what the view looks like driving up the I-5 in California.
I hate to sound like an add, I really haven't even paid for a subscription (mostly because I was wasting too much time at work playing with it!), but Microsoft is once again a day late and a dollar short.
(Link to my other comment did not work. copied here)
There is a startup out there that has a sevice up and running with maps and commercial entries that runs on Palm Pilots and soon other small Java based handhelds. And the client sevice is free. Works with GPS enabled boxes as well (see the list on their site).
http://www.earthcomber.com/splash/index.html [earthcomber.com]
They have done a pilot in Minneapolis. They have extensive maps and parks and historical sites loaded and hooks for not only for commerce but for special interest adhoc communities. War Drivers, birders, Civil War buffs etc.
Microsoft can't stand that any other company has something that people consider to be cool.
They must/will release something similar while proclaiming that it will destroy the competition.
I think that in the end they will succumb to trying to do too many things at once while losing focus on what really matters.
-- I wanted to put my SIG here, but I was afraid that MS would copy it and call it their own.
- ka-Map
Here's a demo site to see how it works:- http://maps.dmsolutions.ca/
If you're interested in a snowcrash-like spinny Earth, I'm involved in a project to build a Free one of those - you can try it out today atYou can zoom all the way from orbit to street level, in your web browser, in freely-navigable realtime 3D; also publish data directly to a spatial database and once we get the kinks out (want to help?) dynamically search within the 3D world.
Hypermedia, virtual worlds, human interface, truth, beauty.