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Trans-Atlantic ID Card System
Th3P0stalDud3 writes "The Independent is reporting that the U.S. has asked the U.K. to use the same chips in their proposed identity cards as the ones in our proposed identity card. In effect, creating a trans-atlantic ID card system." From the article: "The aim of getting the same microchip is to ensure compatability in screening terrorist suspects. But it will also mean that information contained in the British cards can be accessed across the Atlantic."
From TFA:
You're kidding, right? Interfering is what we do
^_^
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~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
Wouldn't it be shorter to just say "Oceania ID Card" ?
FTA: Mr Chertoff said yesterday that it was vital to seek compatibility, holding up the example of the "video war" of 25 years ago, when VHS and Betamax were in fierce competition to win the status of industry standard for video recording systems.
If video compatibility is such a big issue why do they keep 2 main video standards (PAL/NTSC) and continue to put region encoding on DVDs? That lame "video war" comparison is just to appease the public into accepting a "New World Order" style of international identification. Once the US and Great Britain are locked in, it will be harder for other countries to resist if they want unencumbered travel for their citizens.
Trolling is a art,
looks like the gov't doesnt want us to know:
404 File Not Found
The requested URL (it/05/05/27/145234.shtml?tid=172&tid=219) was not found.
If you feel like it, mail the url, and where ya came from to pater@slashdot.org.
"goodbye and hello, as always" ~Prince Corwin, from Zelazny's Amber series
That would be awesome. I think it is important that we post unsubstantiated conspiracy theories about how this is just one more step in an inevitable march towards some dytopian future.
Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
Well Tony is still our Prime Minister, so the answer will be yes we'll do that for you's
Down with sigs
I will be the first to say in our leader's Newspeak - doubleplusgood.
The government must be learning from watching Blu-Ray and HD-DVD.
Our government (UK) just spend x millions in creating this ID card scheme which is says we need... Now they are going to try and sell the public the concept of dumping all that R&D and use the USA standard... When that same government uses the cost so far as a reason why we can't just drop the entire project... Does anyone see a big hole in their logic?
1984 was a good book, just not a great estimate, I think 2010 is a more realistic estimate...
The federal id system as proposed is a continuation of the process by which the government has been seeking to destroy the underground economy and stratify society to an even greater degree. The id system combined with the coming cashless society, educational divide, locking in of resources from the elimination of the inheritance tax can only end in a resumption of the feudal system or something very much like it. When our economy crashes (who thinks the current walmart economy can really last?) the elimination of the middle class will be complete. At this point the plan put in place by the patrician class will have come to fruition and their power will be unchallenged.
"It's so convenient to have a system where everyone is a criminal" - A. Hitler
FTFA: US diplomatic sources stated later that Washington did not wish to interfere in the domestic affairs of other countries.
At the risk of being modded flamebait, when has that ever stopped the US before?
With that attitude, you could have a world ID card in no time! One step closer to a globalised government system. Yip-dee-doo
Anonymous Coward
If the Britons don't knuckle under, it's clear that they HATE OUR FREEDOM.
^_^
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~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
from TFAThere were also verification problems with 30 per cent of those whose fingerprint was taken during an enrolment trial of 10,000 volunteers.
30%! sheesh
Bad Panda! No Bamboo for you! In matters of importance ACs will not be responded to. Want to say something critical,OK
OMFG! An international standard for electronically readable ID cards? Big Brother is going to be the death of us all. Darn that Bush and his Consitution stomping cronies...
So, how many of you travellers appreciate using your Visa/MC/AmEx and ATM cards when you're in another country?
--- I wish I could hear the soundtrack to my life. That way I'd know when to duck.
Mr Chertoff said yesterday that it was vital to seek compatibility, holding up the example of the "video war" of 25 years ago, when VHS and Betamax were in fierce competition to win the status of industry standard for video recording systems.
"I certainly hope we have the same chip... It would be very bad if we all invested huge amounts of money in biometric systems and they didn't work with each other.Hopefully, we are not going to do VHS and Betamax with our chips. I was one of the ones who bought Betamax, and that's now in the garbage," he said.
VHS and Betamax weren't intended to compromise our personal privacy. I just don't see how he would dare to compare these two completely unrelated things. Was it to try and make this sound more benign than it is?
Mr Chertoff also proposed that British citizens wishing to visit the US should consider entering a "Trusted Traveller" scheme.
I propose we stop assuming *everyone* is guilty because of what ~15 other people did. Oh wait, *everyone* hates freedom so we have to do this or we're UnAmerican, sorry, I forgot. Send me for reeducation please... I didn't learn it right the first time.
Mr Chertoff said compatability and the checking system was intended purely to track down "terrorists and criminals" and the main aim was to provide a "fair and reasonable system".
Yet it hinders and inconveniences everyone including citizens of the United States who are having their privacy violated.
"When we screen based on names, we're screening on the most primitive and least technological basis of identification - it's the most susceptible to misspelling, or people changing their identity, or fraud," he said.
I'm 100% certain that whatever method the US Government puts in place will be full of holes large enough to drive a truck through. It's not going to solve any of the problems that we have had in the past.
The vast majority of US citizens is opposed to the use of RFID in official documents. What the hell are our "representatives" doing? I thought we'd live in a democracy here?
Trans-Atlantic paranoia?
Free Firefox news reader.
I suggest a little civil disobedience. Whenever asked for our ID we should repeat the phrase "Leeloo Dallas, multi-pass." in response to any further questions.
You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake -- but you could be if you got off your ass.
Anyone that says anything negative about this request/input from the US Gov. is kidding themselves.
You can dislike GWB all you want, but this is the US gov. trying to work with the GB gov.
Why WOULDN'T they work together on such a project.
With CAFTA and FTAs between US and Australia, and other Free Trade agreements in effect or in progress, including Andean FTA, Australia FTA, Bahrain FTA, Chile FTA, Israel FTA, Jordan FTA, Morocco FTA, Panama FTA, Singapore FTA, and SACU FTA, you can bet that we'll see more of the same with our major trading partners.
The world will not get better through technology. We must seek to be better people.
...that chips in ID documents are a good idea, then why not allow data sharing between friendly governments?
The bigger question, in my mind, is "Are RFID chips in ID documents a good idea?" My feeling is, "Probably not."
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup." --/usr/games/fortune
Your papers please....
Wow, now wasn't THAT insightful?
Why don't we just affix small "I'm a terrorist" decals on the existing IDs of terrorists; that way, we'll always know who's who! By now anyone who is a known terrorist will not be using his real ID to go anywhere. Furthermore, no amount of biometric IDing is going to point out a terrorist. This is just something to better catalogue ordinary citizens with the guise of added security.
They care about whether the chip is complaint to the ICAO standard, not what particular chip is used. There are lots of chips out there, they just have to respond correctly to the same APDUs. This article contains simplifications that are so dumbed down as to be wrong.
Lasers Controlled Games!
Bush is dumb? Why? Because he is President of the most powerful nation on Earth and he has brought democracy to two nations (Afghanistan and Iraq) that were formerly caught in the grip of despots?
What have you done with YOUR life(other than whining on democraticunderground.com?)
We could just comment on some of the documented facts of what the US has done - who needs conspiracy theories these days?.
I have been a user for about 10 years. This ends Feb 2014. The site's been ruined. I'm off. Dice, FU
Just as US three letter acronym agencies aren't allowed to routinely eavesdrop on US communications without a warrant, so GCHQ over here does it for them.
Welcome to Blair's Britain, blueprint by Eric, implementation by Tony.
To implement this screening, they only need to give the chips to the terrorist suspects. Since 99.999% of the public are not terrorist suspects, very few people will ever need to deal with these IDs at all.
Right?
I for one am glad to see this story come out while Bliar is trying to push internal passports on us. Labour MPs really, really hate seeing Bliar bend over for some right-wing Yank with the IQ of a cucumber, so this is a strong incentive for them to vote against their leader on this law... which would almost certainly mean it would fail.
At least their politicians have some balls and can answer questions that aren't from planted "journalists" cough*gannon*cough.
'Fraid not. Our PM doesn't do interviews with journalists, nothing tougher than daytime chat shows at any rate.
Bloody politicians haven't a clue - ID cards will not change anything.
1) Not everybody* has hands (for fingerprints) or eyes (for retina scans) or whatever else goes into this. What happens to these people?
2) When it gets forged (it will), then there will be no doubt (no questions) on producing the forged ID - a failsafe forgery. At least if a password is cracked, you can start again and change it. You can't exactly change your DNA over night...
The only reason they are pushing the ID card shit is for BIG BROTHER control of the generic population[s]. Terrorists etc. etc. etc. will be laughing and totally unaffected (like robbers need a gun licence to hold up a bank).
* The average person has less than two legs.
Now, don't worry my neoliberal (oops! I mean "libertarian"....) "free traitor" friends--I am sure they will have a built-in loophole for cheap-labor illegal aliens (oops! I mean "undocumented workers....). After all, we wouldn't want our investor overlords to get less profit than they would otherwise have if the labor supply were not flooded with cheap labor, thus bringing down wages....
eat shiat and bark at the moon
Its always amazing to me that the biggest assholes on Slashdot are the ones with the +1 Karma bonuses.
So, is this the New World Order that Bush Sr kept on going on about?
Cue the same old tired remarks about 1984 and lack of privacy, etc, etc. Come on people, it's really not that bad! I'm sure our respective governments keep tabs on those of us they need to right now, and I'm sure they share information with each other on those people who're deemed "risky". The ID card system would make things no different, except it might make life easier for people who travel back and forth between the US and UK a lot. The bottom line is, was, and always will be, this: if you're not doing anything wrong, you don't have anything to worry about!
/rant
Everyone seems to think that they're so important that their government would watch every move they make! I have news for you: you're not that important unless you're a murderer/terrorist/filesharer! (the last one is still OK if you're French, apparently...)
he has brought democracy to two nations (Afghanistan and Iraq)
Uh no. Puppet regimes, elections with staged candidates and US-controlled police no democracy creates. Try asking the Iraqi and Afghani people what they think about the US.
(Read: Stop watching Fox News)
The UK has always been the US's only real ally and backdoor into Europe.
Forcing it on the UK first would be a good first step to making the US ID system the global standard.
One thing I wondered was, is this influenced by commercial considerations? In the US big players include Sun Microsystems with the JAVA Card and RSA Security. Each of these systems are backed with US technologies and both have got closer to Microsoft recently (Bill Gates gave this year's keynote at the RSA Conference, SUN and Microsoft have recently made a number of announcement re. making their Directories and technology work closer together). I can't see the US picking a non US vendor for such a political project.
I'm not privy to the UK discussions, but they may well be considering using a Siemens solution backed with a Siemens X500 infrastructure (to name one European vendor).
I would have thought that multi format card readers could be developed relatively cheaply, but a US company winning this contract would gain 60 Million UK "users" and a real headstart on the 300+ Million European market (as France, Germany etc. would then be under pressure to be compatible with the UK).
This is yet another scary development in the long-running UK ID card saga. If any non-UK residents are interested, the current state of play is that legislation will probably soon be passed to force all UK residents to get biometric ID cards by 2008(ish).
These cards will cost us all up to £93 ($150+) each, with profits from the scheme going to private companies. Everyone's personal details will be stored in one huge database, which can be accessed by a variety of government agencies. A recent trial of the biometric technology used in the cards showed that it was quite ineffective. The Government is nevertheless convincing the electorate that this is a good idea by playing on the fear of identity theft (which the cards won't help prevent) and fear of illegal immigrants.
There's a good (as ever) article about ID cards at The Register.
I'm against ID cards (or, more specifically, the database behind them) for many reasons, none of which are particularly terrifying on their own.
The issue for me is that the government can't think of anything better to do with several billion pounds. At least using existing technology might lower the budget a bit.
I don't really believe Big Brother is coming. I don't believe we will really have any less privacy or freedom when forced to carry "papers". I also don't believe they will fix any of the problems our society currently has.
I'm very angry that such a massive public expenditure will benefit no one other than whoever wins the contract to implement it. Oh, and the ego of the poiliticians who are gearing up to bully it through the house.
Speaking of which, why *ARE* they so keen to force this on us? Conspiracy theorists, please go nuts.
With the reduced majority for Labour from the recent election, UK ID Cards are less likely to be introduced, despite the hormones they inject Home Secretaries with to turn them into rabid ultra-Right skirtniffing beast-creatures.
In case this government will actually go ahead and push for RFID chips in passports or drivers licenses against the democratic will of the majority of US citizens me and my family will oppose this move and not renew our passports and drivers licenses. We don't have a car or travel anyways so we could care less but we will defend democracy and the last bit of freedom our country was built on regardless of how much of a bigot this president is and how corrupt our "representatives" are.
Is the USA a friendly Country ?
I certainly don't want my data stored in the USA, where privacy laws are nonexistant....
I'd be quite happy if the UK turned into the 51st state. Certainly a better fate than being half in and half out of europe, and at least getting some benefit from our participation in the Bush wars.
I find it strange that our soldiers can get killed in Irak, but our detainees in Guantanamo get no lawyers whike US detainees do - hmmm. If we're in, why don't we get treated the same ?
This is not a signature.
The problem is the two systems are administred by two completely different bodies - namely the separate governments. What rules are placed on the UK system for privacy or due process reasons can be violated at will by the US agents, who are not bound by those laws -- and the same is true in reverse.
What recourse does a US citizen have when they have handed over (or have been compelled to hand over) their information to a US government agency, under certain rules, and then the UK does whatever they want with it? Will rules about privacy and proper use of the information even apply to non-citizens? Can the UK then share that information with the rest of the EU? Interpol? What about the ICC which the UK recognises and the US doesn't?
The cooperation of intelligence agencies when working cases on specific people of interest is one thing, but this ID system compatibility only makes sense if we're talking about large and frequent exchanges of information. The practicalities get out of control pretty fast.
All that being said, I'm not too concerned about this becoming reality. Intelligence agencies haven't proven to be the best sharers.
The opinion above is fiction. Any similarity to real opinions, including facts and logic, is purely coincidental.
"The aim of getting the same microchip is to ensure a new world order. But it will also mean that information contained in the British cards can be accessed across the Atlantic."
>and he has brought democracy to two nations
yeah. you just keep repeating the lie.
bush has brought nothing but death and destruction (and massive profit for his mates) to afghanistan and iraq. the "democracy" you are seeing is a sham.
i suppose you even think the world is a safer place now too? try telling that to the hundreds of people that are getting bits blown off them EVERY SINGLE DAY in those countries. try telling that to the 100,000 civillians killed (dont beleive the numbers? well the scientific methodology was good enough for Kosovo and we ALL beleive that didnt we?), nearly 2000 U.S soldiers killed and the ???,000 U.S soldiers rendered deaf and/or blind and/or limbless and/or permanently brain damanged
wake up. turn off FOX news and go and see the fucking mess the U.S has caused.
but the oil's flowing from Mosul to Haifa (get an atlas) so mission accomplished, eh?
If video compatibility is such a big issue why do they keep 2 main video standards (PAL/NTSC) and continue to put region encoding on DVDs?
Yeah, it's a crappy analogy, but critical thinking isn't a extremist's strength at all (and right wing extremists are driving this agenda).
Frankly, I don't know why any country would want to facilitate sharing their citizen's private information with the United States. Unlike Europe, we have no regulation regarding the trading and selling of private information. British citizens can expect to see their data in the hands of US Telemarketing, Junk Mail, and SPAM brokers within days of this nonsense being implimented.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
Except from the barrel of a gun.
(lest you forget the lessons of the French Revolution...)
Of course, they could cement that power and supress dissent by legalizing all drugs.....
Check into a hotel, rent a car, do almost anything overseas without a Credit Card. It's awfully darn difficult without carrying a suitcase full of cash and getting screwed with each currency conversion.
Of course the data collected by all of this can be accessed by your, and other, governments and it's much more pervasive than the US and the UK trying to agree on a standard chip in their passports.
I'm must amazed that it suddenly becomes evil because they add this extra bit to an already government mandated identification card.
--- I wish I could hear the soundtrack to my life. That way I'd know when to duck.
Considering the current state of Human Rights abuses by the US (detention without trial, or without even being told the charges against the individual, condoning - even encouragement - of torture by foreign powers, murder of prisoners in Afghanistan, etc.) I find this a very worrying possibility. All the more worrying because our Government will just roll over and accept it.
Something is happening here but you don't know what it is, do you, Mr Jones.
HA HA!!! He has brought democracy to two nations (Afghanistan and Iraq)??? You mean he has brought puppet governments to these nations so that the USA now controls them from behind-the-scenes? If you don't believe that's what happened, you're either gullible, eveil, or just plain stupid. I mean, wouldn't you do the same if you were done tearing up the populous with your bombs and it was a great way to collect "thank$" afterward? The greatest feat the devil pulled off was convincing everyone he voted democrat.
Mr Chertoff also proposed that British citizens wishing to visit the US should consider entering a "Trusted Traveller" scheme.
The Brits aren't going to go for this unless we think like the capitalists we are. Perhaps if we offered them a free weekend in the US after they racked up enough Trusted Traveler Miles, that'd pique their curiosity.
Thank goodness that a sizable number of politicians at all levels of government are working so hard to erode our Second Amendment rights. It's simply intolerable that ordinary citizens may be able to overthrow the government.
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
No personal information? Name, address, Soc Sec # etc isn't personal?
:-D
Heck it's even worse than a passport as it can be used to access and correlate buying habbits. They could know even before you take your trip where you're going, where you're planning on staying and then see what restauraunts you ate at while you were away. Any "interesting" magazine subscriptions charged to that? Maybe even a SlashDot subscription paid on it to show just how subversive you really are.
--- I wish I could hear the soundtrack to my life. That way I'd know when to duck.
Look at it like this. The US may have an awful lot of sheep that are having their freedom eroded by the political class, but the British are even more sheeplike. And all that the British prime minister gets out of this is the occasional phot with G Bush and a few well paid lecture tours after he finally gets the push - no oil billions. It reminds me of the sad comment of a member of the intelligence services: "It's depressing how little money some people will sell their country for."
Panurge has posted for the last time. Thanks for the positive moderations.
It's bad enough that my own Federal government is inserting itself into every detail of my private life, by owning some universal identity info that every identity transaction will use for the rest of my life. But it's giving invasive privilege to some foreign government? Starting with England, then on to some other "most favored nation" like China? Our "friends" in Saudi Arabia, as they "diversify" their global economy into the authentication biz? Who the hell are these freaks, who lie about smaller, less invasive government, then spend $2.5T every year to sell us out to their global partners in crime?
--
make install -not war
...to simply tatoo a big "T" on the forehead of every terrorist? It would make the screening process a snap.
-----
Sorry, I'm only a 1336 h4x0r.
Try to travel overseas without a credit card. Heck, try to stay overnight in a chain hotel in another state without a credit card. It ain't easy.
In this case we're getting worked into a lather about two countries trying to agree on a standard for their already issued government ID cards. The information contained in them is already accessible by the two governments. The only difference is that the border inspector can just swipe/scan instead of type to get that info.
So do please enlighten me as to how this is one giant step closer to the fascist big brother state?
--- I wish I could hear the soundtrack to my life. That way I'd know when to duck.
Bush is dumb? Why? Because he is President of the most powerful nation on Earth
Actually, if you really want to scare yourself, consider this. Since he is the president of the most powerful nation on earth, doesn't that mean that over 50% of the voters in the US are LESS intelligent than Bush? That SHOULD scare the crap out of you.
As for your funny comments regarding the "democracy" that he has brought to Iraq and Afghanistan. If the nations are now free of despots, then what are 150,000 odd US service members still doing in those countries? If the will of the people has spoken, can't you just pack up and go home? You can't? Ever wonder why?
Maybe you should worry about the one country that Bush has virtually killed democracy in (hint: they have elected a simpleton as president twice, once in 2000, and once in 2004).
As for what have others done with their lives. Well, I for one can claim that I have never assisted in the rape, torture, or murder of any human being, through either direct (as in being a member of an institution that rapes, murders, or tortures), or indirect (as in voting for anyone who advocates rape, murder or torture as a valuable piece of foreign policy). How about you?
How are the OMG-evil-UN-world-government people going to handle this?
I, for one, am most disappointed that it has taken Oceania so long to establish Mr Orwell's vision of the ideal society. They are 21 years too late already, and we don't even have a proper thought police yet! I just hope these identity cards come soon enough to stop those terrorists from Eastasia!
US diplomatic sources stated later that Washington did not wish to interfere in the domestic affairs of other countries.
They don't wish to interfere, yet they do so massively. That indicates major incompetence.
There's probably some more, but I haven't had a chance to get the latest list from Fox . . . these things change so frequently these days . . .
I'm not tense. I'm just terribly, terribly, alert.
This works more towards single world order than the UN has in all of its years. Makes you wonder.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Try asking the Iraqi and Afghani people what they think about the US.
Polls consistently show that a (thin) majority of Iraqis feel better off now than before the war. It's just that the ones who are unhappy are REALLY unhappy.
I don't watch Fox news. Maybe you should stop reading Daily Kos?
Toronto-area transit rider? Rate your ride.
Cause we'd have such a great chance against tanks, jet fighters and rods from god...
I will never carry an identity card. If I am not free to go about my business without the threat of having to account for myself, then I might just as well be in prison.
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
Ve vant to see your papers. Please show us your papers.
B) So are we...
C) If we have different ones, it just means both sides will end up with dual-mode readers in their ports-of-entry, 'cause you *know* both sides will have access to the technical specs of both flavors, and neither side will forego being able to read what's openly provided
D) Why not just save time and money and have one standard?
Generally, bash is superior to python in those environments where python is not installed.
In the UK, the law will be:
You must buy your ID card - £70
You must have a card to have a bank account, get hospital treatment, travel outside the country (overriding the current EU free travel rules), get a job. Etc Etc.
The police can, for whatever reason (or none), ask to see your ID card. Cue further harrassment of "non-british looking" citizens.
If you move house or whatever, you must tell the government ID dept. Failure to do so will result in a £2500 fine.
If you lose your card or if it is stolen - IT IS CLASSED AS A CRIMINAL OFFENSE AND YOU CAN BE SENT TO PRISON AND/OR FINED.
Thats more than a minor inconvenience, dont you think?
It's sad how the UK has gone from world power to weak sister ...
Weak MISTRESS, please, not sister.
Unless you're claiming that what Bush does when he visits Number 10 is incest.
The US government today requested that Al Qaeda use the same identification chips in their identity documents as has been proposed for US documents.
Osama bin Laden has not yet responded affirmatively to the request. but promised to look into the matter at his next meeting with senior Al Qaeda leaders.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
This may just be an effort to ensure that US business gets the market for such chips.
Otherwise I'm really not sure that I see the point. No one here is arguing that you shouldn't need a passport to visit the US. British passports are already machine readable at US passport control. Why should we need an ID card AS WELL ?
What exactly is the official point of these cards? Politicians are always refering to them as an important weapon in the war on terror but no one ever explains why. How will they help fight the terrorists?
The UK will do as the big brother asks.
The rest of EU would never accept all of their ID-card database to be given to US.
George:
"Let's rule the world together, like father and son..."
Tony:
Sure, if You say it's the best so.
Everytime Canada talks about decriminalizing cannabis the US threatens to clamp down on the border (causing us economic damage). The US is constantly messing with Canada.
...those 30% are guilty of terrorism...or something...
We should bring them in for questioning just to be safe.
I'm not tense. I'm just terribly, terribly, alert.
It's sad how the UK has gone from world power to weak sister in less than a few hundred years.
Sort of like Putin was saying that the worst thing in recent world history was the demise of the Soviet Union? Hell that came and went in less than 100 years. The Ottoman Empire doesn't even rate "weak sister" status any more, either.
The only reason that the UK used to have such influence (relative to its size, population, and resources) was the ballsyness of their Navy (and those telling it what to do). Through that, they were able to create a world-spanning empire that, absent battleships and whatnot, wouldn't have otherwise existed. That's pretty much the story of colonial influence by all of Europe, really. But the Brits stopped trying quite a while before the Germans did, and the Russians were pretty much the last ones to give it up. You could say that they went from World Power to Weak Sister in, oh, 20 years (not counting their Spam Power, which is of course (when the power is on) quite Imperially Impressive.
At least their politicians have some balls
Much as you obviously hate Bush, I can't imagine that you think lack of risk-taking is an issue there. Do you really think Kerry would have even brought up Social Security reform? His constituency would roast him for that, as they're doing to Bush. But he went into the election saying he was going to do that, and the talking heads assured us that would be his undoing ("taking a huge chance" etc). Just an example. Do I wish he was raised on a diet of Churchillian oratory technique? Sure. Would I rather have a spineless focus group addict shaping executive policy? No.
If you're suggesting that Blair has balls because he's willing to stand on principle and keep working on something that he thinks is the right thing to do, even while his local press wail, gnash their teeth, and henpeck him about it... then, sure - that takes a certain amount of vertebrae. But isn't that exactly what Bush does? Or, are you not really talking about "balls" and you're actually talking about principle, and you just don't like them? If so, at least say so. Oh, and if you don't think that Bush's predecessor got a huge free ride from his personal friends in the media, then you weren't actually watching the coverage. Softball questions from the press don't serve anybody, but the more liberal side of the media has certainly been throwing softballs for years, and there are a lot more of them.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
actually we only elected Bush once.
Ceci n'est pas un post
The great irony is that in a recent discussion on the BBC News site, approximately 80% of respondents to a poll said they didn't want the cards, compared to well under 20% who did. Now, on-line polls are hardly the most scientific study in the world -- there was no CowboyNeal option for a start -- but IME the ones on the BBC do tend to be fairly representative when compared to proper studies.
One common objection cited in the discussion was the cost, and specifically who will wind up paying it, and how often UK governments give (mostly US-based) megacorps lucrative contracts that then strangely over-run and cost the taxpayer even more.
Another common objection was the shifting goalposts in the benefits it's supposed to bring us: pre-election it was all about anti-terrorism, until various Spanish bombings despite ID cards were repeatedly mentioned. Then it was illegal immigration, until about half the world failing to stop illegal immigration despite requiring ID was repeatedly mentioned. Now it's identity theft, but people are pointing out that super-cards could actually make it easier for professional criminals to take an identity, not to mention the hazards of locking all the key information about a citizen into a single, centralised database.
Perhaps the real reason is that the US wants it, and Blair is playing along? Not that that's ever happened before, you understand.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
Polls consistently show that a (thin) majority of Iraqis feel better off now than before the war
:
m l
Really, here is a cut and paste for you
The bigger risk: Polls find that at least 80 percent of Iraqis - whatever their views on the insurgency, democracy, the removal of Saddam Hussein, and other issues - want US armed forces to leave their nation.
Here is the full link http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0930/p17s02-cogn.ht
Yes, I could have found something more recent, but hey, I read both sides, it's not my job to educate those who choose to ignore the truth.
Keep telling yourself that the US is doing a "good thing" if it lets you sleep at night. Those who have to live with Bush's foreign policy every day seem to see it differently.
Nice! I plan on war driving my local city once we get RFID chips put in the IDs. I'm gonna set up a website that will illustrate the traffic flow of hot girls throughout the day.
Now we can go international baby! gtfo.
It would be rather nice if Brits and Americans could travel to and from each other's country with just an identity card, much as I understand is possible today within the EU.
Might save a lot of time stacked up at passport control.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
Which one:
41 - George Herbert Walker Bush
43 - George Walker Bush
44 - John Ellis "Jeb" Bush
(Oops, sorry, that one is suppose to be a surprise).
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence or insanity but they've always worked for me" - HST
..want to explain why this is "bad"? I can see problems in the system (obviously, no form of identification is perfect [for example, DNA's great for identifying you, but is expensive to actually CHECK]), however what I don't see is all these privacy concerns and harkenings to 1984 that everybody is making.
;)
This is an international (for the US and UK anwyway) ID card. I don't see it as being much different than a national ID card, which is then subject to verificaiton by other governments (as is the case). The only difference that you could claim is that now TWO countries can verify your identity easily (instead of one requiring more time since it's not their native ID card).... And I don't see how that's an invasion of privacy.
The only "invasion" that I can see is that the biometric data they contain, and that's hardly an invasion IMHO. Even today's ID cards have biometric data on them (usually height, weight, eye color), and I have yet to see any privacy concerns because of THAT. These cards will likely contain a bit more than just that kind of rudimentary data (the article mentions fingerprints), but how is my privacy invaded if somebody gets ahold of those? Heck, they're virtually public in the sense that I could take any glass, dust it for prints, and "steal" your print already....
So, does somebody want to share why this is such a huge privacy concern? You know you want to help out this poor ignorant AC
Why is it that the Muslim world thinks murder is an acceptable response to being offended? The MSM is going nuts over this Gitmo Koran mishandling BS, but they completely overlooked the way in which Palestinian gunmen stormed and desecrated the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem. The gunmen defacated and urinated in the church, and wiped their rear-ends on the pages of the Bible? Is this not infinitely more offensive? Yet Israeli troops went out of their way not to kill these animals like they should have done. What do you think would happen if a non-Muslim treated a mosque in a similar fashion?
welcome Great Britian as out 51st state....
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
I'm trying to figure out the nexus between ID cards in the US and UK and terrorists. What percentage of terrorists are US or UK citizens?
Why do you hate America?
Based on the political affiliations of the companies counting the votes in Florida and Ohio, I'd say we never elected Bush at all. The exit polls told the true story.
the UK has gone from world power to weak sister in less than a few hundred years
More like less than 70 years, and Roosevelt was largely responsible: Lend-lease, an explicit US policy of replacing British Colonialism with US "influence",Bretton Woods and a US battleship sent to South Africa to impound British Gold Reserves pretty much ended Britain as an Economic power.
Unless you're one of the false positives, which for the current technologies being proposed in the UK only covers about 2.5 million people.
Or if someone at the government offices makes a genuine mistake, while performing routine processing on one of several dozen records they'll be working with that day, and messes up your database entry. Yes, it did happen to me (by the tax office) and it took three months chasing down about six different tax officers in four different places to sort out the mess, during which time I was out of pocket by hundreds of pounds in overpaid tax with no recourse and barely able to pay the rent.
There are many reasons to oppose these schemes: potential for civil liberties abuse, they won't bring the advertised benefits, they cost a fortune, and so on. For me, by far the most likely problem is either systematic error (false positives) or human error administering the system (my example above), either of which could have devastating consequences if adequate systemic safeguards are not in place (which they aren't for any other government database I've ever encountered).
I can't help feeling that my sig is particularly apt today.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
In San Francisco we have this pass called the Muni Pass which is used on all public transit systems in the city. When I used to purchase one on a monthly basis I always asked for:
"one MULTEE PhASSSSS PLEASE"
I guess they were so used to English only being the native tongue for half the residents they just went with it.
--- I do not moderate.
"But it will also mean that information contained in the British cards can be accessed across the Atlantic."
So, since when is that news.
Not that I am pro ID cards (especially if I have to pay for something I dont want). How different is an ID card going to be from a passport, which from sometime soon has to contain biometric information stored in a common standard that other country's immigration systems can read? Plus side, we can now stop ruby wax or michael moore sneaking back into our country .. even if they try and disguise themselves .. yay!
US ID cards will be readable over here as well ;) and knowing how things work, as easy/hard to counterfiet , great, if the criminals crack the system they only need one system for two countries.
BTW, Americans most likely should be more worried about our Govt than Brits should be worried about the American Govt. Just because we have odd accents doesn't mean we're not authoritarian sneaky devious buggers.
So he admits that we, the public, are terrorist suspects.
here here
damn ID cards and RFID chips. They always try to push these type of things under a guise of being good for children and or helping to fight the "global war on terror"
Because no sane legislature can ever stand up and oppose helping the children or fighting the terrorists.
When will they start rounding up the supporters in the US of the IRA. Those that helped fund and arm. if terrorism is bad then all terrorism should be equally bad....
I'm against it being compulsory to carry them, and I'm against giving Police the power to demand to see them without due cause in extremis.
So long as no one can legally force me to produce it for simply going about my daily business I'm not too bothered.
I don't have a problem with having to produce it for other voluntary interactions with the state: applying for welface benefits for instance. How much difference is there between an ID card and say a UB40 ?
I for one welcome our Theocratic overlords. Strict, totalitarian control will eliminate the need for social services such as welfare. Charities will no doubt be abolished as helping those whom God has punished is an affront to his divine plan. If God wasn't mad at them, they wouldn't be destitute, now would they?
Don't forget the end of abortion and sex ed classes. We can't have sinful things like that being tossed around in school, now can we?
And who can raise an honest objection to the death penalty being applied to Post dealers and life in prison for drug users? We're cleaning the refuse off the streets after all!
As Ann Coulter said, "We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity."
And this voting thing, come ON, how humanist is that? The government exists by divine mandate, not ours. Trying to govern ourselves is presumptuous and an affront to God. I'm glad they've got this whole voting thing ironed out with the electronic voting machines. This way, the godless, pagan humanists can still feel like they're in control, while God's chosen leaders maintain their leadership positions.
I mean, come ON. Can you imagine what would have happened if George W. had been defeated in 2004? I shudder to think what the consequences would have been.
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
Because everytime anyone criticizes Bush, he or she is dismissed by the Maintainers of the Status Quo as a conspiracy nut. No siree, George W. Bush is the ultimate teflon don, he could be caught selling military secrets to China and his apologists would say he was doing it for the good of America.
You keep believing everything was OK in those fucked up regions before the US invaded. Things are not OK in the world and they have been steadily getting worse since the USSR collapsed and you Europeans need to take the blinders off. Regimes that formerly controlled Iraq and Afghanistan need to be toppled. Sorry that doesn't fit into your laissez-faire attitude, but those days are over. Wake up. The Islamic radical situation is a relatively new development created by the despotic Middle Eastern governments. They are not your friends. They are not the friends of humanity. Bush knows this, and so does the UN. However only Bush had the balls to do something about it.
Repeat after me:
In Oceania the Government....(fill in the blank).
The Soviet Russia posts need to stop. They are old school. Oceania is the future!
Service guarantees Citizenship! Questions Guarantee GITMO.... Amerika Uber Alles!
The reasons given in the article are all solid resons, but I would not be surprised if some small encouragement behind this is from a US chip manufacturer who is looking to expand and consolidate a larger market for their products. They would ask the US government to press other countries into using their products. It would give them a large locked in market and lots of control. The current administration is enough in the pocket of many corporation on such matters to make this believable.
By the same token, any security service should probably be carefully of making their security procedures and technology dependant on foreign companies. They might be friendly now, but you never know what will happen afer the next election.
So, any word on who the chip maker is?
There is nothing so silly as other peoples traditions, and nothing so sacred as our own.
Um, well that only makes sense. No one wants an occupying force in their nation. It doesn't mean that they aren't happy with results of the invasion.
The US is doing a good thing. Its people like you that want to tear down the progress that has been made that are sick. Of course you probably think everying was A-OK over there before the invasion.
Dear Dumbass, the soldiers are there to keep the Islamic radicals from getting control back. What do you think they are there for? Did you think you can just topple a government and say "well everythings ok now. lets go home?" and go back home.
WAKE UP EUROPEANS. THE WORLD NEEDS POSITIVE CHANGE. PUTTING YOUR BLINDERS ON AND ACTING LIKE EVERYTHING IS OK BECAUSE YOU DONT SEE THE SUFFERING ON YOUR TV SCREEN EVERY NIGHT DOESN'T WORK.
How about helping change the world for the better instead of bitching about how Bush "stole the election."
Of course, by the time this all gets implemented, who will want to visit the US ( or UK )?
When I read the headline my first reaction was: Why would the US impose the UK to user Ukrainian ID chips?
Why should anything good be said when his name comes up?
By all accounts tangible and intangible he's the worst president we have ever had. His policies are disasterous to our domestic finances, our health, the health of foreigners(obviously), and the long term prospects of America. Even my friends who are lifelong Republicans think he has done an shitty job. There are not about to vote Democrat(Ever) but they can't honesty say he hasn't been a major fuckup. Hell he took half of his first 4 years off on vaction and works a "strict" 35 hour work week. How else could things have turned out when you put blinders on and will only listen to news that is spoon-fed and filtered for you? Has he ever done an open forum with the public that wasn't hand selected?
Again, why wouldn't there be anti-Bush comments here and everywhere else politics come up?
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
Which US firm close to the administration is going to get this juicy no bid contract?
Even if the Brits use a different chipset it's not like the US won't want to read the cards, it'll just be a little more difficult to start with.
"But it will also mean that information contained in the British cards can be accessed across the Atlantic."
Am I the only one who read this and thought that they had developed an extremely good shotgun RF receiver??
sigs, as if you care.
The ID cards don't have a point at all.
What has a point is the massive database they get to build with everyone's personal information in, in order to keep tabs on us all, sorry, "verify the ID Card details".
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"
but this:
The bottom line is, was, and always will be, this: if you're not doing anything wrong, you don't have anything to worry about!
Pretty much undermines the entire base of western civilzation (arguably), and most definately the founding principles of the US.
Of course you (and many like you) are too stupid to realize that.
(I don't like to resort to ad-hominum attacks - but it's high time we start calling a space a spade.)
Nice try at that fake quote. Lame, but nice.
I don't understand why people fear ID cards so much. What liberty is at risk? Specifically, not just the usual paranoia.
I have a driver's license, a Social Security card, a passport, a security clearance, several bank accounts, and several credit cards; I seldom use cash which means almost every purchase I make, and where I make it, is recorded somewhere; if someone wants to know where I go when I travel, they can; my medical history is freely available to my physicians; my credit history and rating are available to just about anyone who wants to pay for it.
And yet, I don't perceive any loss of liberty. None of those things I've listed has ever stopped me from doing what I want to do.
So, tell me, how is one more card supposed to ruin my life?
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
I'm sure that when the newly elected Prime Minister goes to No. 10 they are ushered into a back room with a special red, white and blue telephone. "This is where your orders will be coming from," explains the official on duty...
Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
aside from the bad spelling, it should be "spade a spade".
Go to US immigration and after the usual abuse for wanting to enter such a wonderful country they will take your biometric measurements and [insert miracle here] your biometrics are retrieve, hashed and compared with the values held on the card (which are authenticated by the digital signature). Everything okay - welcome to America and wipe your feet on the mat, everything not so good, please check in for the Guantanamo Express.
So far, so annoying, but not really much more of an infringement of privacy than having your passport photo scanned by some scary lady at JFK.
HOWEVER, and here is the scary bit - the UK ID card would be the link back to the National Identity Register which will contain many dozens of pieces of personal information and a complete trail of previous accesses. Is the UK government going to refuse to allow the US authorities to access that database.
If it does then we are in a world of hurt, by doing so it would blow the Data Protection Act out of the water and probably be in multiple violations of EU law.
Part of me says it couldn't happen - the UK would refuse to allow personal data to go to a country with such poor data control regimes as the US - but then I think of the way we rolled over to send airline passenger data into the maw of Homeland Security.
So I hope all Brits who are worried have signed up to No2ID?
Mike.
You'll love this bit:
Bush admits he reiterates propaganda.
You can't make this stuff up.
Quoting:
Now, a personal savings account would be a part of a Social Security retirement system. It would be a part of what you would have to retire when you reach retirement age. As you -- as I mentioned to you earlier, we're going to redesign the current system. If you've retired, you don't have anything to worry about -- third time I've said that. (Laughter.) I'll probably say it three more times. See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda. (Applause.)
Here's the sound bite.
He actually said it. Ye gods. And you can tell how well they screen that audience - because they applauded him admitting use of reiterated propaganda.
Someone above disputed that Bush is stupid.
Case closed.
Yipe.
I opposed the war and still think it's the greatest US foreign policy blunder in decades, but I'm not so doctrinaire that I can't see good things coming out of a tragedy.
I'm not speaking of you, exactly, but I find it alarming that parts of the anti-war movement on the left seem to hope that it becomes as much of a bloody quagmire as possible, so that it furthers their own domestic political objectives. Such an opinion is in the same league as the opinions that started the war in the first place.
Toronto-area transit rider? Rate your ride.
Certainly more come from outside US/UK than inside so this is a pointless idea UNLESS US companies want to ensure that they become the primary contractors for ID cards.
I have already decided, as a British citizen, that I will never accept an ID Card. I am certainly not allowing a totalitarian regime like the United States access to my personal data.
9/11 of what century? This has been happening for some time now friend. Ask the Japanese-Americans who were here during WWII for their feelings on the subject.
the soldiers are there to keep the Islamic radicals from getting control back.
Hey, americunt fucker! Care to explain why you think that Hussein was an Islamic radical?
THE WORLD NEEDS POSITIVE CHANGE
Yes it does, and it can be reached with very simple step. americunts need to nuke them selves!
Fuck off and die please!
Dear Red White and Stupid,
If the people of these now "free" countries have "elected" the "democratic" governments that they want, then how can the "Islamic radicals" take over? The only way is if these "Islamic radicals" are the ones that the MAJORITY of the people want in the first place, which is probably true.
So if your points are correct, then these countries did NOT in fact have "democratic" elections, but had "puppet governments" put in place by the US, that require US military support to survive. Without that support, the people will get what they want, and it sure as hell isn't "American" style government.
Do I want to see fundementalist islamic governments running the middle east? Wait for it.........it's none of my fucking business! It is for the citizens of those countries to decide, not you, not me, and sure as hell not your idiot man-child of a president.
Turn your statements around, and suppose one day some other superpower with say a billion men showed up and declared to you "We can not have a country, that posses WMD being run by a born again Christian, it just isn't safe. We are here to remove him from power, and install a "safe" regime for the safety of your people, and your neighbours".
Would you accept that? I didn't think so, I can hear your "stars and stripes" underwear balling up in the crack of your ass from here. So what the fuck makes you think you have the "right" to say that to any other country? The answer is, YOU DON'T.
BTW, the rest of the world does recognize that positive change is needed. The shocker to the sheeple of the US is that the positive change involves the US keeping out of everyone elses business. Why not worry about your devestated economy, you under educated children, your under educated President, your over addicted population, or any one of a long list of other social ills within your own borders, before you start worrying about anyone elses problems. Trust me, you have more than enough of your own.
..the alarm bells are ringing, people.
are you really gonna let your gov't fuck with your privacy like this? there's really no threat big enough to justify this kind of fascism.
Our government (UK) just spend x millions in creating this ID card scheme which is says we need... Now they are going to try and sell the public the concept of dumping all that R&D and use the USA standard ...
... When that same government uses the cost so far as a reason why we can't just drop the entire project... Does anyone see a big hole in their logic?
So you advocate not-invented-here syndrome? I would think that the reasonable thing to do would be compare the two systems and choose the better one.
No, but I see you oversimplifying things. The implementation of the technology of the card is only part of the cost of the project and its planning. I'm also sure there are other reasons you are neglecting to mention, presumably the government's argument regarding the need for such a system. Hint: "need" would be a far better point to argue than "cost".
"And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name." - Revelation 13:17.
You know, it makes one stop and think about it...
I find it alarming that parts of the anti-war movement on the left seem to hope that it becomes as much of a bloody quagmire as possible
Hey, I have some personal opinions about this whole mess. I think Bush is an idiot, and I think he is mis-guided. I think the war was a sham, is illegal, and Bush and his crew should be charged with war crimes. I think the whole US policy in the middle east is a mess, and has been for a long, long time.
That list could go on for a couple more pages, easy, but do understand this. I don't hate Americans. They are human beings, and they get a lot of grief for foreign policies that they have no part of. I want the US soldiers out of Iraq (hopefully at home, where I am sure they would rather be), so they don't have ANY more casualties. I don't want to see how many more civilians and soldiers were blown up today.
I also would like to see progress come out of the tragedy. The problem is, there is almost ZERO progress being made. Just more and more tragedy. This is Vietnam all over again, where one school is built, and all is good. But no one talks of the hundereds killed in the latest airstrikes on URBAN centers. Where is the good/bad balance on that one?
US policy put Saddam in place, as well as the Taliban back when they were called Mujahadin, the US trained them, armed them, and installed them, when it suited US needs. Then they have to go back and "unfuck" everything. The end result, is a civilian population that has been punished for decades for nothing more than US political games. The US like to picture themselves as the great saviours, riding to save the damsel in distress. But you ignore the fact that the US is the one who put the damsel into distress in the first place.
If you have electronic cards, they can be read.
The only thing that is new here is that the same reader can be used by cards for 2 countries.
Even if you do not have the same tech, they can very easily be read in a different country. This is just a cost cutting measure for the us.
---
which may explain why they had to tack it onto an existing military spending bill to get it through Congress.
I assume you're actually referencing the Real ID Act with that one. That is related to uniform standards for drivers licenses issued in the US. Ironically the same people who bitch about this are the same ones who tirelessly point out that the 9/11 terrorists had valid driver licenses.
The article in question this time is about changes to UK law.
--- I wish I could hear the soundtrack to my life. That way I'd know when to duck.
All that is needed if they want to create a compatible system is to establish standards - there is no need for the same technology firm to produce the chips as long as the in/output parameters are defined and agreed upon...
Is this the smell of corporate interest?
You gotta love the US....
USA + UK trans-atlantic pass. There are SLIGHTLY more countries that border the atlantic ocean than just the two. Perhaps they only see those that were part of the "coalition of the willing"... who needs the rest of those countries anyway lol. The whole thing seems to be a great big joke to me.
Hell Canada and the UK would be closer to the term transatlantic...
I suppose so - literally checking ID is reasonable enough.
The problem is the information they choose to associate with the ID. And of course I don't just mean anything else stored on the card - any real info about you is stored on a central system and just keyed off your card.
But then these systems are already around, so perhaps fussing about the key used to access them is really a distraction?
"But it will also mean that information contained in the British cards can be accessed across the Atlantic"
:)
Uhh.. so why is that a "but"? If it means I have to carry one card instead of
two. If it means I can fly through customs and not be hassled. I guess it would
REALLY suck if you were wanted by the police or intelligence services in the UK
and all US customs had to do was scan your card.
But hey that's not me. And why would anyone think it was a problem?
I approve of your sentiment though I'll take issue with a couple of pieces of your argument.
...how can the "Islamic radicals" take over?
It doesn't take a majority to rule a country...just enough thugs with guns, and no scruples about butchering and torturing the opposition.
Without that support, the people will get what they want...
I doubt it. I really can't claim any special knowledge of what the Iraqi people want but if they're anything like me they probably want a reasonable compromise between freedom and stability with a strong dose of equality and oportunity. Would it take longer to achieve with or without the U.S. military presence (given that they're already there)?
it's none of my fucking business!
Well sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't. If I witness my neighbor beating his wife and endangering his children do I not have an obligation to do something? I think so. But I'd want to be damn sure of the situation before I act (Bush's rationalization -- WMDs -- was clearly wrong. How he hasn't been impeached boggles my mind).
suppose one day some other superpower with say a billion men showed up and...
I like this one best. The shoe on the other foot really isn't comfortable. Personanlly, I'd welcome our new atheistic overlords (so long as they were atheists!).
I report to Colonel 2.6.1 and General Chaos is his boss.
For me the most worrying aspect of the new identity card scheme are the new powers that will be granted to the state and criminal penalties that they will incur.
The Bill creates a score of new offences including;
Refusal to obey an order from the Secretary of State (6(4))
Failure to notify authorities about a lost, stolen, damaged or defective card (13(1))
Failure to renew a card (9(2))
failure to submit to fingerprinting (9(4)(b))
Failure to provide information demanded by the government (9(4)(d))
Failure to attend an interview at a specified place and time (9(4)(a))
Failure to notify the Secretary of State of any change in personal circumstances (including change of address) (12(1)).
You could even a colonoscopy with every ID check as part of the reader would be required to get shoved up your ass (just like the law requiring you to have one got shoved down your throat.)
... Wait a minute. They're already making you do that at the airport ...
I can just imagine 'road side checks' would be a lot more contested. Its one thing to 'walk in a staight line' its quite another to have to 'bend oer' in public.
Oh
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Medicare will go bankrupt years before Social Security. How about Bush fixing the pressing problem first. Not to mention the fact they have significantly cut Medicaid funding.
When the richest country in the world cannot take care of its population it is simply due to poor management and typical what can you do for me today thinking, instead of how can we be better today and down the road.
Deficits that are going to possibly bankrupt our country (note: this is the republican goal, to bankrupt all social services programs) is not conservative or responsible at all, it's just fucking stupid.
I love the part about us saving *billions* of dollars by closing military bases when the 10 year savings matches 2 weeks of expenditures in Iraq. More moronic math from the worst administration in history. How the republican party can continue to get people to vote against their own best interest is an amazing feat to me. I guess having FOX News report whatever you want seems to be working.
The US of A may be the richest and most powerful country in the world now, but in the past there were many others that held that role. Only forward thinking will keep us in our current position. Unfortunately our president wants it to be like 1950 again.
How many gummint form and non-gummint forms ask "Have you ever been arrested?"
It doesn't ask "Were you ever subject to illegal search and seizure by a couple of brain-damaged border guard?"
The result of the arrest would be expulsion!
That's the reason I've kept my nose scrupulously below the radar down here. Clean ain't enough!
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Thank you for asking. I created a company that provides medications to indigent patients for a minimal cost ($10/month). We have filled over 45,000 prescriptions in less than a year.
So while your *genius* president dumb fuck was killing thousands of people in Iraq for no real threat and running our country into the ground economically, I was helping over 15,000 low income people get their meds since the pathetic fucking governement cannot do it.
Have you ever helped anyone? Doubtful, most dipshit conservatives like to armchair quarterback when it comes to helping people.
I also contribute to local wildlife refuges.
slope" returns too many indeterminate results.
Though "Frog Soup" returned a couple of sites of interest and a meal idea I want to try next time I'm in Nor'lans.
Next time, give a few more search tems.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
The UK has no real sovereignty to speak of. The UK signed over its sovereignty on economic and geopolitical issues to Washington in return for the massive aid required to resist Nazi conquest during WW2; as such, British policy has been effectively dictated from Washington since 1945 (well, in all the instances Washington could care about).
Witness, for example, the UK's assent to Bush's "Star Wars 2" missile bases on its soil, without any sort of parliamentary debate or public discussion. Or the fact that the UK's nuclear arsenal is under US control (the missiles are leased from US defense contractors and operated by US technicians; it is safe to say that Washington would have veto power over their use). Or, indeed, the way the British government bent over backwards, forging evidence as needed, to send troops to Iraq as ordered whilst frantically maintaining the illusion that it was acting independently.
Suicide bonbing by definition blows (up.)
Of course there is no history.
The card is the better to watch your ass with. No other excuse. But then again, it, combined with the degree of surveilance that's out here today, might make it impossible a get away with anything.
That means YOU Mr. Politician. Your ass can't get away with anything either. (Talk about turning on the light in a darkened, dirty kitchen.)
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
...how can the "Islamic radicals" take over?
It doesn't take a majority to rule a country...just enough thugs with guns, and no scruples about butchering and torturing the opposition.
You realize that virtually every individual in Afghanistan and Iraq own weapons, right? It is not just the "Islamic radicals", it is every farmer, cab driver, and goat herder. Seeing as the vast majority of the populations of both countries are Muslims, the chances of having a Theocracy are fairly high. Although the prospect of a Theocracy in Iraq scares the living hell out of the Bushites, it probably doesn't worry your average Iraqi in the least.
it's none of my fucking business!
Well sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't. If I witness my neighbor beating his wife and endangering his children do I not have an obligation to do something? I think so. But I'd want to be damn sure of the situation before I act (Bush's rationalization -- WMDs -- was clearly wrong. How he hasn't been impeached boggles my mind).
I do not disagree with your counter point here, at least in principal. But running with your analogy, doesn't make the US look any better.
So your neighbour (Saddam) is beating his wife (the people of Iraq), so you do what a good citizen should do, you call the cops (the UN). When the cops investigate (Weapons inspectors), they find no crime, so you cross the yard and shoot the husband dead (invade Iraq).
Now, to make your analogy really fit, you never actually saw or heard your neighbour beating his wife. A freind of yours called you in New York, telling about his neighbour in LA beating his wife. You then go to LA, and shoot your friends neighbour dead. I think in the civilized world, that would be called first degree murder. Not self defence, not justifiable hommicide, just plain murder.
When you arrive at your assigned polling place, this will provide the convenience of not having to show your ID to the clerk. They could know your name and other vital statistics when you walk in. They won't have to look you up on a list, because your ID will say if you are a registered voter or not.
Think how convenient also when you finish voting and the black box voting system records your identity and vote at the same time, for use by the government to monitor anyone who is starting to fall out of line. So your right to the secret ballot has been taken away, no big deal, right?
Like England (at one time) France, Germany (twice with gusto!) Japan, Korea, Russia (well the USSR,), Canada (we did burn the White House down,) most of South America (manifest destiny and all that good shit.)
Yesterday's political expedience is today's political liability. (The Shah of Iran is a case in point, as is Saddam Hussein immediately after.)
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
And 'One Eyed Mullah Omar' would beg to differ (well actually, he wouldn't, you would, sortly before he fired a bullet into your brain.)
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
I'm sure the incentive for Blair to comply isn't purely financial; there is probably a stick to go with that carrot. Shortly after he was inaugurated as Prime Minister, he was undoubtedly summoned to the US embassy in Grosvenor Square for a briefing, which would have included an outline of the benefits of being tight with the US and the consequences of non-compliance. (And I don't mean that the US would bomb Britain if it disobeyed or anything; given the degree of US investment in Britain, the economic consequences of disinvestment could be devastating on their own.)
The fact that shortly after his election, Blair, an ostensible socialist, personally bent the rules to allow Wal-Mart to buy supermarket chain Asda, speaks for itself.
Medicare will go bankrupt years before Social Security. How about Bush fixing the pressing problem first. Not to mention the fact they have significantly cut Medicaid funding
You are aware of the difference between the executive and legislative branches, right?
When the richest country in the world cannot take care of its population
Well, how much are you will to pay so that everyone can get a million dollars worth of health care as they see fit? The problem isn't that no one "cares" for the people who don't have a lot of their own money to spend on health care, the problem is that everyone is expecting state of the art care, tests, and drugs for everyone, in a hurry, and at rates that are no longer sustainable. Combine that with the gargantuan costs (to doctors and facilities) of malpractice insurance, and you've got an industry that has costs (prices, really) going up vastly faster than the income of the people theoretically paying for it. Who do you propose pays for that? It's going to go bankrupt not because the current administration is starving it somehow, but because it's an insane financial model in the first place. People with a sinus headache end up getting a battery of $5000 tests before anyone tries a $50 allergy meds prescription, and that ends up costing all of us a bloody fortune.
At least with the retirement funding issue, things are a lot more cut and dry. We'll be down to a couple of people working to pay the SS benefits of every retired person. That's completely unsustainable, just like having people who pay a couple thousand a year for health care, but one in ten of them rack up a $50,000 in bills.
note: this is the republican goal, to bankrupt all social services programs
Really! Please link to that info someplace, it would be fascinating to read. Or, is it more likely that it's their goal to point out when those programs are on a fundamentally bankrupting footing by their very nature? The entitlement culture is definately the problem - everyone wants everything to paid for by someone else, and they want to be able to sue for bundle if they have any dislike of how things turn out.
when the 10 year savings matches 2 weeks of expenditures
So, since it's just a few billion, might as well just keep spending it, right? That's exactly how we end up with overblown, hugely inefficient social programs in the first place. Spending to keep troops as supplied as possible is a completely different matter, and the outcome of that (the pursuit of a more peaceful, democratic middle east) will have gigantic payoffs in reduced expenses for us (and the rest of the world) in the long term. Kind of like we're no longer spending money to push back against Soviet expansionism, with savings in the hundreds of billions of dollars a year.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Are they going to have the phrase "The person carrying this card is a terrorist" on it? I don't see how this card will thwart terrorism anymore than RFID enabled passports.
You and I *are* in complete agreement on the last point. As to the first, I guess I'm saddened that any religeon needs to be part of government. True, laws are generally based on morals. And for many many people, moral authority is sourced in a deity. I just wish it were otherwise.
I report to Colonel 2.6.1 and General Chaos is his boss.
That's very rich coming from an MMDDYY middle-endian-loving American.
The only sane date format is YYYY-MM-DD-hh-mm-ss. It's the only format that starts with the most significant unit and works its way to the least significant unit.
Someone skip to and unmole the corruption I expect similar to Iraq.
The lucky megacorp implementing it will no doubt be owned by the people in power.
A blog I run for the wealth
You're telling me the Congress isn't a rubber stamp for the president? How many bills has he vetoed? Oh, yea zero. Because they send exactly what he tells them to.
There were 3 Trillion dollars in medical services given last year. The american public paid 3 Trillion dollars. All that happens is the burden is shifted to those that pay. You're already paying for it so why not make it available for everyone? Fear, uncertainty and doubt, I'm glad our forefathers had some fucking balls.
Social services would be fine without having enormous tax cuts that are *needed* since we have such a large surplus. Wait, there was no surplus because it was a 10 year projection on 1998 levels of revenue generated from taxes? So we were operating at break-even afterall? Sound financial management requires looking at more than the political *we cut taxes* bullshit slant the republicans take. It requires being fiscally responsible, which the old line "Tax and Spend Democrats" at least makes more sense than the actual "Cut-taxes and Spend MORE Republicans".
I have no problem with the base closures, I have a problem with starting a bullshit war that costs thousands of lives (American and other) since there wasn't a danger from Iraq at all. BTW it doesn't save 100's of Billions a year. The Rumsfeld (another dumbfuck with his head in the sand) "Savings" plan is over 10 years.
Since the worst polution sites in the entire country are abandonned military bases it is doubtful that closing them will save anything in the long run since we still need to clean up all the bases Bush I closed.
Step back from the propaganda (Bush used this term himself, guess you cannot let the moron speak without cue cards, à la the "crusade" comment) and take an objective look at our country's choices. If you're for what we are doing fine. I feel sorry for your children, grand children and so on...
In Germany, you can always find the homeland. In America, the Homeland finds you.
I hate to burst your bubble, but the average USA citizen (Second Amendment or not), is no competition for Hellfire-equiped UAVs, J-DAMs dropped from F-15s and FA-18s, or the withering fire of a 40mm chain gun on a Bradley.
And your merely discussing this as a viable possibility has already placed you on a DHS watchlist.
The only way to overthrow the Dubya/neo-con regime is at the ballot box, presuming (of course) that by the time Dubya's second term is up, he hasn't decided to postpone national elections for a decade or so. (You DO remember the trial balloon floated by the FEC to postpone the 2004 national elections, don't you? Now imagine a new major terrorist event timed to occur just before the NEXT national elections, an event that provokes the declaration of martial law.)
I thought that might wipe the smile off your face.
Reality sucks. Welcome to reality.
Can't we just introduce a World ID Card system - or would that mean us rich countries having to give too much of our technology to the third world?
LOL. What news were you watching that told you Islamic radicals were ever in power in Iraq? How can they "get back" control when they were never in power? The Ba'ath party were ideological atheists dumbass which is why the CIA used to fund them. The word "Ba'arth" means rebirth, the whole point was they were opposed the power of Islam. Which, to remind you again, is why the US used to support them.
Yes, I know what Saddam started saying shortly before Desert Storm but its not like anyone in the Muslim word believed him either which is why they didn't come to his aid as he was hoping. I guess you're the only person who fell for that one eh. Oh, and your "reliable" (read: corporate American) news sources I suppose.
"Hands across the water,"
"Hands across the sky."
If you want an idea on how this system would "help" both countries, come to Orlando: Florida Mall has hundreds of British tourists daily, and the shops & inns near Disney bear British flags & "Daily Mail." You can joke about Germans in Speedos at the water parks, but it seems to me like the two biggest tourist groups here in Florida are Canadian & British. An ID card that worked for Brits & Americans would probably be useful in this setting, and since their currency is nearly twice the worth of ours, its a cheap vacation for them to come here.
As for "Oceania" comparisons, that isn't too far off base: what do Britain & America gain from a more powerful EU, or the Chinese cutting in on their deals? Our involvement in the Middle East has been mainly with former British protectorates (Israel, Kuwait, Iran, Iraq). You could argue that America has gone out & made an economic empire the British haven't had in a century: like the offspring taking over the family business; of course Britian would love to be a part of something it helped create.
The funny thing is that the people on both sides like each other just fine & aren't too concerned with becoming a global hegemony.
Life is irony, and nothing ever goes as planned.
... that this is another US/UK egocentric article. eID cards (as we call them here) are being deployed in Belgium, and are already used for login into online banking,... Even M$ promised to support it. So maybe the US/UK administration could use the same chip and accept the fact that they're a bit late at the party? Peter
That even environmental law is still very much in the hands of individual states - try looking up auto emission standards by states. Another would be water purity - sure the Feds have theirs - but state laws can supersede (class Water extends MNStateGov) them.
Sera
Slashdot, where armchair scientists get shouted down and armchair theologians get modded up.
They're talking about British Passports here dude.
How many states actually require you to show any form of ID in order to vote? It's actually depressingly few.
--- I wish I could hear the soundtrack to my life. That way I'd know when to duck.
has always been at war with Eastasia
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
Defense against...what, the rest of humanity who mainly just want enough to eat, fuck and be left alone. Nation states are akin to coporate depatments and these devices are our new clock-cards.
/rant, nothing personal Doc Ruby.
Orwell was the prophet of our times but unfortunately he did not offer us any alternatives so we will all sort of just grumble and punch the card when we want to have a vacation...
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.