Slashdot Mirror
Blackberry Future Uncertain
Dave White writes "Research In Motion and NTP have failed to reach a settlement in the Blackberry case. It looks like the door has been opened for NTP to be granted an injunction blocking the sales of Blackberry wireless messaging devices in the US. The New York Times (free registration yadda yadda) has the scoop on this interesting development."
Man, if I couldn't replace my Crackberry, I'd be dead in the water. But I'd need less aspirin.
http://bugmenot.com/view.php?url=nytimes.com
Who needs logins now?
RIM and NTP Reach An Impasse
Research In Motion said it has reached an impasse with NTP Inc. in finalizing a patent dispute settlement and would take court action.
The two sides had reached a settlement in March with RIM agreeing to pay $450 million to NTP to settle the patent litigation. In return, RIM was granted an unfettered right to continue its BlackBerry-related business without further interference from NTP or its patents. "We are extremely disappointed and I am personally extremely disappointed that this matter which we believed was resolved has been reopened by NTP," Jim Balsillie, RIM chairman and chief executive, said in a conference call.
He also emphasized the terms agreed to in March "were clear and unambiguous. "For nearly three months now, RIM has been working in good faith to complete the process and obtain the final license and settlement documents," Balsillie said. According to RIM, NTP refuses to honor its obligations under the term sheet and finalize the definitive documents. Calls to NTP went unanswered. RIM said while it is unsure of the outcome of the court's decision, it is reviewing any potential accounting implications and has already set aside and will continue holding on to the funds to make the settlement payment.
Blackberries are utter crap to begin with. My company gave them to all of our sales reps and the phones have been nothing but trouble. Just a note to anyone who gets a Blackberry device, stay away from Cingular. We have had about 5-6 of our reps switch to Verizon because Cingular sucks at life.
Ouch, that's gonna leave a mark !
bugmenot.com login info:
onzinad
ONZINAD
"What does slashdotting mean?"
"You've never heard of slashdot?"
"I know it makes websites not work."
We need a hundred of these types of losses -- where patents directly affect the public. Let the public get comfortable using a very necessary and nice technology, and then let some crappy company come out of nowhere and extort their way into an injunction and removal of the widget from the marketplace. The company (RIM in this case) should then perform a recall on all devices that infringe on that patent - notifying the users of their equipment exactly WHY they are being forced to give up their Blackberries.
Then we'll see how long it takes to reform the patent system!
"To make a mistake is only human; to persist in a mistake is idiotic." Cicero
From what I heard it has a short battery life [10hrs], I know it costs alot and the service providers rape you 7 ways from sunday.
It's not a good product for several reasons [not all of which are technical] and I for one would be glad to get rid of them.
They're a bunch of smartass punks anyways. I went through the job interview process with them in Waterloo and they'd sit you down todo puzzles. Finally I turned around "do you know how to build a cryptosystem or multiply large numbers quickly?" The guy said no and I said "figures."
Backstory: They were hiring me for my crypto-math knowledge not to see if I could quickly write programs to solve geometric puzzles [which while fun is a bit nerve shaking during an interview].
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
Doesn't matter -- the Treo 650 is killing the Blackberry anyway. Once I found I could manage my servers with PalmVNC on the Treo, that was it for me.
Listen fellow moderators, RTF posting before moderating "informative."
This is because when I read the headline, I thought the Blackberry's future was uncertain because of a massive sales/advertising/marketing assault from Microsoft. I understand M$ is also selling it's own version of a Blackberry....How wrong I was!
Because clearly, Blackberries only exist so that your bosses boss can send you an email with a sig at the bottom that says "sent from Mr. Big's Blackberry (while rolling down the hgwy in his Z4).
part of the problem is, RIM got the patent office to reexamine 8 of NTP's patents regarding the technology, and so far the PTO has come out with rejections on each proceeding they've done.
this adds a layer of complication to the infringement case, as no doubt some part of the deal rested on the outcome of those proceedings.
The company I work at recently yanked all blackberry devices and replaced them with Treo 600 and treo 650's.
the fact that you dont need any "special" software to access email and has the capability of viewing doc and excel attachments was the death spike for the blackberry here at this company.
and honestly, the treo's have much better sounding audio for phone calls than even the latest blackberry's did.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
I for one am interested to see what kind of patent it is to have the power to demand 450 millions. Is it called "Device that send out e-mail wirelessly" or is it just the thumb keyboard? After reading the story it doesn't seem to give me the full picture.
instead of "yadda yadda" each time you link to NYT. Like this:& q=ntp+rim
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&ie=UTF-8
Final talks in a patent infringement lawsuit involving the popular BlackBerry e-mail messaging device have reached an impasse, the two companies involved said Thursday, raising the possibility that the BlackBerry service could be banned from the United States market.
What I don't get is how the Blackberry, being so popular with members of our legislature, wound up on the wrong side of a patent lawsuit. To wit: Legislative Branch Subcommittee Hearing on the FY05 Budget [2004]:
In the past two years, the Senate provided BlackBerry devices and updated electronic pagers to Senators and key staff. The number of BlackBerry devices in use at the Senate continues to expand. Every office has a Senate "Group Alert" telephone system and approximately 1,000 telephones throughout the Senate are connected to the System.
Can't imagine someone informing members of the Senate they have to turn in their favourite devices because they're no longer legal.
but a Blackberry is the only mobile device that actually adds-value to wireless communications. Really... who needs a cameraphone to communicate? Do we need MP3phones?
It is time for the US Gov't to use the power of Imminent Domain to put this rights case in the hands of the common good.
OTTAWA, June 9 - Final talks in a patent infringement lawsuit involving the popular BlackBerry e-mail messaging device have reached an impasse, the two companies involved said Thursday, raising the possibility that the BlackBerry service could be banned from the United States market.
The two companies, Research in Motion of Waterloo, Ontario, which makes the BlackBerry, and NTP, a small patent-holding company in Arlington, Va., reached a settlement in March to end an infringement suit that is three and a half years old. R.I.M. agreed at the time to pay NTP the unusually large sum of $450 million to end the suit.
On Thursday, however, it was apparent that negotiations to reach a final settlement had failed.
Late Wednesday night, R.I.M. asked a United States federal court to enforce the settlement reached in March. Meanwhile, in court papers filed Thursday, NTP denied that the settlement was ever clear-cut, and urged the court to reject R.I.M.'s request.
In a conference call Thursday with analysts, James L. Balsillie, the chairman and co-chief executive of R.I.M., said he could not comment on the specifics of why the talks had foundered, citing a confidentiality agreement between the companies. He emphasized, though, that R.I.M. had not tried to alter the settlement's terms, and blamed NTP for the impasse.
"This is an enormous amount of money, one of the largest settlements in the history of any patent system," Mr. Balsillie said. "I'm at a loss to understand what in the world one would want beyond that."
In its filing, however, NTP said that it had pressed R.I.M. for a complete set of documents detailing the terms of the agreement during three days of negotiations in March.
"Nevertheless, because of R.I.M.'s pressing need to leave town, the signed agreement was limited to a vague, ambiguously worded term sheet," the court papers said.
NTP had won the right to ban Blackberry e-mail in the United States in an earlier court decision, but that ruling was suspended when R.I.M. appealed. In its filing Thursday, though, NTP said that if no settlement was reached, it would again ask for an injunction on the sale of BlackBerry pagers and e-mail service in the United States. Research in Motion is dependent on Blackberry sales in the United States for about 75 percent of its revenues.
Gregory E. Upchurch, an intellectual property lawyer in St. Louis, said that about 80 percent of the time, courts enforced previously announced settlements. "Courts are in the business of resolving disputes," he said.
ACs are modded -6. I don't read you, I don't mod you, I don't see you. Don't like it? Don't be a coward.
...That this is the first site/article I've opened on my blacberry in a week. Sure wish /. Had a more mobile-friendly format. Actually, I'll take /. Working in my firefox first!
This one gang kept wanting me to join cause I'm pretty good with a bo staff.
This week Microsoft announced they will begin doing push email for all Windows Mobile devices from Exchange. This was the last key differentiator for RIM. Without that, they are simply just another Cell Phone / PIM / Email device. Oh and Microsoft is giving this away for free, so no need to buy RIM's enterprise software.
Hoyty
According to this court document, the infrigments concern:
- Claims 15, 32, 34 of #5,436,960
- Claim 8 of #5,625,670
- Claim 199 of #5,819,172
- Claims 28, 248, 309, 313, 317 of #6,067,451
- Claims 40, 150, 278, 653, 654 of #6,317,592
These patents can be found here:5,436,960
5,625,670
5,819,172
6,067,451
6,317,592
These patents look to me like they would cover just about every PDA and cell phone on the planet today. Is RIM a target because of their popularity?
I am not interested in articles about life extension advancements.
RIM is an allright company and for folks like me in Canada, the only decent company where I could work. Now some stupid little american company is gonna hit on my employment. And that other company in Redmond is in the fray as well. How can a keyboard on a mobile device be proprietary to anyone ? isn't it part of say, common sense, or part of natural evolution of technology. Rot in hell NTP. But why did RIM have to depend on a proprietary hardware device anywayz...what's so innovative about THAT ? Rest in Peace RIM.
I'd like to see a law passed that says that while you may be granted a patent on an invention or idea, if you fail to produce a viable product based on it, the patent only lasts half as long.
Too many companies seem to be using their patents as blocking mechanisms to keep competitors out, or as a way to extort money from other, larger, firms.
Chip H.
Just as I received two 7920's, with a third on it's way, and placed a $3000 order for their Enterprise software. Strong the forces of irony are.
it's more like NTP's patents are DOA, and RIM doesn't owe them a plug nickel ...
Question Authority before IT questions You
Yesterday evening, I have attended to a play in Paris. My neighbor could not wait for the end of the play or for the interval: he had to check his blackberry often... Some blackberry users become slaves. I hope for them that 'blackberry' will disappear...
le souvenir d'une certaine image n'est que le regret d'un certain instant (M.Proust)
1. Dream up and outlandish idea you have no clue how to implement and patent in obscure wording
2. Go into coporate hybernation and wait until someone much smarter implements idea.
3. Sue smarter company for all their hardwork and ingenuity.
4. Profit!!!
I hate parasites.
The cancel button is your friend. Do not hesitate to use it.
I work for a very large Canadian Government department and I would say 9 out of 10 employees here have a Blackberry (supplied and paid for by the department). We are talking about very large numbers here. I assume things are similar in other departments. These devices are not going away anytime soon, at least in Canada.
This is a very very sad case.
Why in the world is a company like NTP even allowed to exist. Why are ppl given patents before even coming up with a product.
I think what NTP has done/is currently doing is very wrong. Why should a company like NTP that just dreams up ideas and does nothing to actually develop them being given patents? They do very little to foster innovation. They do very little to employ people. They pretty much do jack diddly squat.
This is wrong in so many ways.
There are 3 other parties that are also responsible for the BS. The patent office that actually gave them the patent (flawed patent system), the corrupt law firm representing the case, and the Judge who ruled on this case and cannot see right from wrong.
[1]Email messaging device have reached an impasse, the two companies involved said Thursday, raising the possibility that the BlackBerry service could be banned from the United States market
[2]
In its filing Thursday, though, NTP said that if no settlement was reached, it would again ask for an injunction on the sale of BlackBerry pagers...
Q1 2005 stats
PalmOne: 614,750 units shipped (from 834,591 same period last year). Market share 18% from 30%
RIM: 711,000 units shipped (from 405,000 same period last yesr). Market share 20.8% from 14.8%.
RIM subscribers at 3MM from 1MM 16 months ago.
20% of RIM sales are from Europe
I'm originally from Waterloo, Ontario, where RIM is located. They've grown at an incredible rate in recent years, but not in an "we'll eat your soul" kind of way. They've reinvested strongly in the community, and have donated a TON of cash to charity and other ventures. For example, the founder of RIM donated $100M to found The Perimeter Institute, a theoretical physics center where researchers and eggheads can basically sit around and think about cool stuff without worrying about budgetary or governmental pressures. A lot of what I see from RIM reminds me very much of Google. Become an industry leader, and STAY an industry leader for the right reasons. This story makes me somewhat sad, as the company suing them appears to have been "created" specifically for this reason, and they don't actually create anything that benefits anyone, except lawsuits that benefit themselves.e n/
Perimeter Institute can be found here:
http://www.perimeterinstitute.com/index.php?lang=
If you're ever in Waterloo, I suggest you check it out. One of the coolest buildings I've ever seen.
Surely the best way to force a reform of the patent laws is to use them. Imagine this: All the pro open source / free software people start applying for as many patents as possible, covering any technology related matters, and the broader they are, the better. They then donate these patents to a new organisation whose goal is to look for infringments of these patents by large companies, and then get money from them. The money is used finance the organisation, and any left over is ploughed into various open source endeavours. If that doesn't force the big companies to buy new patent laws from the american government, I don't know what would.
All three of my clients with Treo 650s have had at least one return due to defective units. One is on his third.
Blackberry? Same numbers. Except there's about 75 installed users who are still on their first units...
These stupid things became the "next shiny thing" all the managers had to have, and of course, when the service provider failed to enable BES, we had to "fix" them... I hate these things.
h ahaaha(imagine thousangs more)... damn lameness filter.
With that, all I can say is:
BWAhhhhhhhhh,
hahahahahahahaahahahahhahahahaha
Umm, more money? And if you're the tinfoil hat type how about the fact that MS want to get their hands in the Blackberry cookie jar so bad, would they entice NTP, like SCO, to do something like this?
I personally think it's just for more money. I mean this is coming from a company that doesn't manufacture any products, contributes nothing and just sues others due to the fact that they own patents. Surely an organization of such calibre wouldn't resort to something like this ;)
What am I suppose to do with all these blackberrys, make jam?
Dr Cox:[to a teen who has stopped taking her epilepsy medication] If this continues, you will be dead. And I'm not talking about the "Oh my God, if I don't get invited to the prom, I'm going to die" type of dead- I'm talking dead dead. Is that clear enough for you? Because if it's not, I could of course text you on my Blackberry or my Blueberry or my Chuck Berry... although technically Chuck Berry is a blackberry... the point is you gotta stop wasing everyone's time and grow up. Is that clear to you sweetheart?
Did you get that thing I sent ya?
Someone has finally discovered what that mysterious "???" step is.
It's Lawsuit !!!!!
or hiptop 2 - from danger, is a totally superior device anyway. predictive text is for suckers.
-- http://www.criticalassets.com
Never used a treo, but can you print from it?
They have a hard time attracting new employees. Most potential employees are too embarrassed to ask "How can I get a RIM job?"
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
'Course, you know what they say about money and fools...
I have no tag line
This isn't just a case of NTP vs RIM, but NTP vs all push-email companies. Supposedly their patents bars companies from delivering push email without paying a license fee to NTP. NTP already has license agreements with Nokia, Good Technology, and are eyeing more ...
Microsoft lawyers will be watching this case very carefully. Especially with their upcoming release of Mobile 5.0 with "Direct Push Email". I doubt Microsoft wants to pay license fees to NTP for every Exchange Server 2003 license they sell.
NTP has a huge stake in this, it isnt just about $450 million, but future licensing revenue from Nokia, Good, and Microsoft.
getting dumped on them. NTP is just a small patent-holding company in Arlington, Va.
RIM has the hardware and the network.
Let RIM put out an email and a static page on all their devices out there saying that they are being forced out by NTP.
We'll see how long NTP can stand being in the palmtop communication device marketplace with nothing to show for it but their dick in their hand.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Now maybe the PHBs at my company can find time to do some useful work, instead of forwarding messages from their Blackberrys all day long...
This isn't the sig you're looking for... Move along.
RIM has to pay to maintain a staff and their network. NTP has to pay to maintain... oh yes, nothing.
NTP can stay in the patent abuse game without any revenue a lot longer than RIM can afford to stay in the network game without revenue.