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Is It Wrong to Love Microsoft?

vd writes "Given most comments on Slashdot, it would appear that anyone with even a slight knowledge of computers hates Microsoft. An article on CoolTechZone, though, argues that not everyone should dismiss Microsoft outright. According to Varun Dubey, Linux is over-rated, Macs aren't worthy and Windows deserves respect and some love. From the article: 'What has Microsoft given us? It has given us Windows, sure, it was buggy earlier and a lot of things didn't work like they were supposed to (plug and play springs to mind) but it was a pioneering effort. No one was even close to the ease of use that Windows offered. Sure, Mac OS was a lot prettier but then it cost the moon and the stars along with both your arms and legs.'"

183 of 1,643 comments (clear)

  1. I must be in a dream... by orion41us · · Score: 5, Funny



    2 almost pro-MS posts on /. in one day?

    someone please hit me...

    1. Re:I must be in a dream... by HiyaPower · · Score: 5, Funny

      No, no! You do not understand. He is talking about ease of use for virus writers....

    2. Re:I must be in a dream... by izm · · Score: 2, Insightful

      While 95% of the world runs a MS OS, that is purely because Microsoft has the PC industry in a strangle hold in terms of licensing agreements. Half of users could give two shits about whether its windows, mac, or linux. All they care about is what they can get done with it. You can't get much done when your computer is constantly plagued by viruses and spyware....can you?

      While it is true that part of why Windows is insecure is because of its being so widely used, UNIX like operating systems are more secure due to their structure, and the fact that their authors and users are constantly looking at the OS under a microscope, picking out the vulnerabilities, and releasing patches. Even if UNIX based OS's were more widely used, there would still be fewer security concerns and fewer flaws. The flaws in windows go way beyond security.

      Also, USB plug and play is actually pretty good on Linux. Also, using tools like yum, you can install software and all dependancies with one command.

      If I recall, Apple was to market first with their personal computer (Apple II) while Microsoft was was still kissing IBM's feet, selling them an OS they didn't have. I myself still have my Apple IIe.

      Also, from a programming perspective, Win32 is a monster. I have to modify perfectly good standards based C code to work on windows, where it will compile with very little modification whatsoever on Linux, and the BSDs, and the MAC. Standards exist for a reason.

      Perhaps windows is easy to use, but it still presents way too many problems to be worthy of my respect. This article also puts everything else down waaaay tooo much (its just a tad biased.....like all of us I suppose).

      Microsoft is a good business....not a good software maker.

      --
      izm
    3. Re:I must be in a dream... by okmnji · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I haven't seen this mentioned yet, so I'm taking a little risk and trying to post in the first thread...

      I'm hoping that everybody realizes that they're responding to three high school students, of which only two seem to have enough grasp of the English language to passibly write in it. The other one is a "tech news analyst", whatever that means.

      And you know what? Y'all (and me too...) just got pwned. They've managed to get a website going with minimal content, and seems to be over 50% ads, with crappy writing. Normally, this would be a bust. But, get your site on slashdot with a controversial subject and.... forgive the cliché:

      1. Get crappy site on slashdot
      2. ...
      3. Profit!

      At least you can feel good about getting Sandeep and Ravdeep money for college.

      Ah, what the hell. Give the kids a break. We were all kids once too, and probably thought a bunch of stupid shit like "Microsoft is teh inovator!" But this definitely doesn't belong on /., it's pure flamebait. (not to mention sneaky devious, just like the guys in the black van outside... but they can't fool ME!!!)

  2. Freak by dtfinch · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "most of the people developing Linux probably sit at night writing up malicious code for windows!"

    This guy really must not like open source developers.

    1. Re:Freak by Virak · · Score: 5, Funny

      And he must really hate that pesky 'logic' thing.

    2. Re:Freak by Sorce · · Score: 2, Funny

      You know that everyone who uses Linux is a hacker...

    3. Re:Freak by Mind+Booster+Noori · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Exactly...

      Most of the people developing Linux couldn't care less about windows, so why bother writing up malicious code for it when they can spen that time (if coding) coding to improove the tools they use and learnt to love?

      This article is written by someone who doesn't know nothing about OSS, and that quote shows it well.

    4. Re:Freak by schtum · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This isn't an "article," it's a blog entry. And a really bad one at that. I say this as someone who uses Windows almost exclusively.

    5. Re:Freak by minus_273 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They're convicted monopolists

      I've never understoond slashdot's affinity for that line. There is nothing illegal about a monopoly. MS was convicted on illegally USING that monopoly.

      --
      The war with islam is a war on the beast
      The war on terror is a war for peace
    6. Re:Freak by MyDixieWrecked · · Score: 2, Insightful

      most of the people that I know who develop linux software (myself included) don't know jack about writing windows software, let alone the ins and outs of writing anything more complex than a "Double Click for Pr0n.exe" trojan that simply wipes the HD.

      i tried to port one of my programs to windows, and it wouldn't even compile. I toyed around with it in visual studio at my friend's job and nothing I did would get it to compile. it kept complaining about compiled headers or something. and I was only using the standard library in C. It wouldn't even compile in cygwin without the help of someone contributing a patch to my project.

      --



      ...spike
      Ewwwwww, coconut...
    7. Re:Freak by darkmeridian · · Score: 4, Funny

      "most of the people developing Linux probably sit at night writing up malicious code for windows!"

      Actually, most of the people developing Windows probably sit at night writing up malicious code for Windows! Or is Internet Explorer a very successful third-party trojan?

      --
      A NYC lawyer blogs. http://www.chuangblog.com/
    8. Re:Freak by DenDave · · Score: 4, Funny

      This has got to be in the top ten of /. trollposts ever...

      whoever the author of this crap is, he had better crawl back into the slimy hole whence he came because he verges on libel and slander.

      --
      -if at first you don't succeed, stay the heck away from paragliding.
    9. Re:Freak by TopShelf · · Score: 5, Funny

      Around here, a posting that's pro-Windows is news, kinda like a Bigfoot sighting (as in, what was this guy smoking, and where can I get some?).

      --
      Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
    10. Re:Freak by garett_spencley · · Score: 4, Informative

      There is nothign illegal about having a monopoly.

      Say for instance you develop a unique product that no one else has ever developed before. As long as your company is the only one to develop that product you automatically have a monopoly on that product. How can you be punished for something that's beyond your control ?

      Microsoft has done a lot of shady business practices.. no one is arguing that. But having the monopoly alone does not make them criminals. It's how they abused their monopoly to wipe out future competition and to screw over their customers that got them in trouble.

    11. Re:Freak by DohnJoe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's how they abused their monopoly to wipe out future competition and to screw over their customers that got them in trouble

      that should have got them in trouble... unfortately they seem to be able to get away with it.

  3. I'm confused... by kwatz · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Why is this in apple.slashdot.org?

    1. Re:I'm confused... by Ohreally_factor · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's in the Apple section because Zonk is trying to get a knee jerk response from "Apple Zealots", either for commercial purposes, scientific research, or to settle a bar bet.

      --
      It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
    2. Re:I'm confused... by dtfinch · · Score: 3, Funny
  4. So now by CKnight · · Score: 2, Funny

    FTA:

    and a lot of things didn't work like they were supposed to

    I'm to assume that the bugs currently in windows are there by design?

  5. In other news ... by rlp · · Score: 4, Funny

    Kool-Aid sales up substantially.

    --
    [Insert pithy quote here]
  6. What else has Microsoft meant to us... by It+doesn't+come+easy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Illegally destroyed competition in the OS space.
    Suppressed or destroyed competition in the app space.
    Dictated an artificial (e.g. unnecessarily expensive) software replacement cycle.
    Empowered unscrupulous businesses to spy on your every web surfing move.

    I hear people say that things aren't so bad with the current state of desktop computing. After all, Windows rarely crashes anymore and you can surf the web, play games, read email, etc. What else is there? To be quite frank, a lot. It is difficult to quantify all of the software development that hasn't been done because of Microsoft's oppressive control over the desktop. I estimate we are at least three generations of software development behind because most businesses would not risk competing with Microsoft. Just 5 years ago I can remember reading stories about companies that decided NOT to compete in a particular area because they feared Microsoft would crush them. Forget the companies put out of business or the people who had to find a new job. The loss of advancement in software technique is incalculable.

    --
    The NSA: The only part of the US government that actually listens.
    1. Re:What else has Microsoft meant to us... by Turn-X+Alphonse · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Not to defend MS here in any way shape or form, but lets go nuts.

      Lets say tomorrow Bob 1 and Bob 2 invest some new uber fantastic computer program/hardware/whatever you pick. Now three years ago Bob 1 was working for small start up Company A while Bob 2 were working at Company B. Now Microsoft caused both companies to go out of business. So Bob 1 and 2 found each other at company 3.

      Now if MS didn't "crush them", we never would have whatever it is they invent. So while I hate MS and all it stands for, they are an evil which also works in other directions.

      Nothing breeds technology like war. A giant company needs a giant cannon to shut it up for a while.

      So maybe it's not all "they're holding us back", they probably are ins ome areas while advancing others.

      --
      I like muppets.
    2. Re:What else has Microsoft meant to us... by koi88 · · Score: 2


      ... these are common business practices. ... I don't blame MS for playing the game the same as everyone else.

      This is lik saying "I don't blame thieves for stealing money, because everybody wants to have more money."
      True, but not everybody steals. And not every company behaves like MS.

      --

      I don't need a signature.
    3. Re:What else has Microsoft meant to us... by tulsadano · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Those are valid knocks against MS, and I'm no big fan of Gates and Friends. However, it is a historical reality that without MS windows, desktop computing would still be a idiosyncratic little community typing out cryptic strings to a command line OS to do computing. Windows brought computing to the masses. Command line OSes were just too abstract for casual, low-tech users and MACs were (and are) prohibitively expensive.

      Yes, MS has done some very evil things and some very incompetent things. But MS Windows gave rise to our industry's explosion, and they deserve a small amount of positive affirmation for that.

      Just as it is impossible to quantify how much development hasn't occurred because of MS competition stifling, it is equally impossible to quantify how much of the last decade's content would not have been developed if MS hadn't developed an affordable GUI OS where any monkey could launch an app by clicking an icon. So maybe we are 5 development cycles behind where we would be if MS had published Windows in a perfect and altruistic world, but we are many development cycles ahead of where would be now if Windows hadn't been developed at all.

    4. Re:What else has Microsoft meant to us... by Mr.+Underbridge · · Score: 5, Interesting
      But when the actions they take are not illegal (which clearly doesn't cover them all, but the vast majority of them), is it the company or the law that's at fault?

      Most of the actions they use are illegal, but they either weasel off, hire better lawyers, or just pay off defendants. They're well known for entering negotiations to license technology, and if the talks break down, they just steal it.

      Also, everything they've been able to do since the early-mid 90's has been due to their illegal exploitation of monopoly, such as strongarming OEMs not to include Netscape or WordPerfect.

      So I'd say it's not the laws that are at fault, but a legal system that never envisioned a defendant strong and willful enough to flaunt the law because the penalties are simply part of the cost of maintaining a monopoly.

    5. Re:What else has Microsoft meant to us... by Decaff · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But MS Windows gave rise to our industry's explosion, and they deserve a small amount of positive affirmation for that.

      No it didn't. MS Windows was a result of the IT industry growth, not a cause. The PC was already cheap and widely used (in the UK, Amstrad PCs running DR-DOS and GEM were selling well) before Windows turned up. There were many alternative GUI systems that could have become dominant on the PC.

    6. Re:What else has Microsoft meant to us... by jedidiah · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What a dellude moron you are.

      EVERYONE else had GUI's 10 years before Microsoft. This even includes UNIX.

      It was Microsoft that was the last lone holdout in this area. It was Microsoft that subjected it's captive audience to user hostile command line crap.

      Infact, Macs were really never much more expensive than brand name PCs. PCs just gave you the option of el-cheapo brands or completely generic hardware.

      ST's and Amigas were dramatically cheaper than either, just as easy to use as Macs and far better than either PCs or Macs in terms of multi-media hardware.

      Microsoft is the great sandbagger.

      Dragged it's feet 10 years for a real 32-bit OS.
      Dragged it's feet 10 years for a usable GUI.

      Even then, the usable GUI was dependent on outside price pressures to give the common consumer the ability to buy enough RAM to run the pig.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    7. Re:What else has Microsoft meant to us... by faedle · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Business is war."-- Commodore founder Jack Tramiel.

      It's a shame we couldn't have rounded up Microsoft's employees early in the game and gassed them.

    8. Re:What else has Microsoft meant to us... by Jaseoldboss · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What really gets me is that we all pay for this activity. Every time you but a new PC with Windows you are paying MS developers to lock you in and break competing applications.

      Not to mention paying for the lawyers to defend them when it comes to court.

    9. Re:What else has Microsoft meant to us... by Shadow99_1 · · Score: 2

      Ya know over the last five years I've seen both netscape included on PC's and WordPerfect Suite included on PC's by Hp/Compaq (I've seen both included twice, once before and once after the merger). But really the average consumer these days won't take another alternative (to MS Office), even if they don't want top pay for it... Heck where I work I've offered people the chance to use Open Office instead fo MS office since they didn't want to spend huge amounts of money on MS Office and in almost all cases they wouldn't take any alternative regardless of price... Theyed rather try to pirate MS Office instead then try out soemthign that wasn't the 'real' thing...

      --
      we are all invisible unless we choose otherwise
  7. Drumming up advertising revenue by Ohreally_factor · · Score: 2, Informative

    Are we, Zonk?

    Taco have you guys on some kind of a quota system? Or do you get bonuses for generating a certain amount of page hits?

    --
    It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
  8. Obligatory Amiga reference by deaddrunk · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It had all the features it took Microsoft ages to nearly get working many years before and at a far lower price. Shame Commodore were morons.

    --
    Does a Christian soccer team even need a goalkeeper?
    1. Re:Obligatory Amiga reference by Johan+Palmqvist · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Agreed. Microsoft hasn't given us anything new.

      The Amiga had all this from 1985 when PC's still ran 16-bit singletasking MS-DOS:

      32-bit OS
      4096 colors
      8-bit sound (14-bit interpolated)
      Autoconfig (plug'n'play that works perfectly).
      Preemptive multitasking.
      Long filenames
      640x512 resolution
      DataTypes (codecs)
      Resident binaries

      and more...

    2. Re:Obligatory Amiga reference by j-turkey · · Score: 2, Informative
      It had all the features it took Microsoft ages to nearly get working many years before and at a far lower price. Shame Commodore were morons.

      Mmmmmm...Amiga. I have fond memories of my young Amiga zealotry. The truth is that while it was a superior platform at inception, Amiga was far behind the curve by the time that the AGA architecture was rolled out. Wintel boxes eventually had a better implemented (completely native) retargatable graphics system, and you could pick up 24-bit graphics cards for under $100 (remember that AGA didn't do 24-bit graphics. They had that sorta 18-bit Ham8 and a 24-bit palette. The onboard graphics on the Amiga which used to be its trump card became a hinderance. The 24-bit Wintel cards were much faster than the AGA chipset could (I remember how incredibly slow an 8-bit color desktop was on my 1200...it was unusable).

      Amigas still had great blitter, but by this time, it was nearly useless unless you were really into animating sprites and scrolling massive bitmap screens. It did make for some cool games, like Gravity Wars however.

      Once Windows 95 was released, it was all over for the Amiga, as Windows 95 sported usable multitasking and some protected memory, while the Amigas would have (what would normally be) userland applications bring the system down...Guru Meditation. The Windows OS caught up to and surpassed AmigaOS 3.x.

      None of this was the fault of the platform or its engineers. I believe that it came down to Commodore's management. The company wes too slow to release technology and failed to market what they had. Of course, I'm sure that it also had something to do with Microsoft's dominant marketshare as well as the depth of their third-party development base. /p

      --

      -Turkey

  9. Huh? by 1010011010 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    No one was even close to the ease of use that Windows offered.

    In what universe is that true?

    --
    Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
  10. Hey! I know the answer to this one! by fireboy1919 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Yes, it is.

    Next on the agenda: is genocide really that bad of an idea?

    --
    Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
  11. Viewing habits by Keebler71 · · Score: 5, Funny
    Given most comments on Slashdot, it would appear that anyone with even a slight knowledge of computers hates Microsoft

    You obviously don't read at threshold: -1.

    --
    "It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance." - Thomas Sowell
  12. Will Slashdot comments be news next? by timster · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What a worthless article. If it were a Slashdot comment, it'd be moderated to -1, Overrated.

    --
    I have seen the future, and it is inconvenient.
  13. Poor guy. by fuchsiawonder · · Score: 3, Funny

    I think it's safe to say that Mr. Dubey is afflicted with Stockholm Syndrome.

  14. Terrible article by DreadPiratePizz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    First of all, the writing is less than stellar. Second, all of it is opinion based without any sort of facts to back it up, or in depth explanation of his point.

    And then there's this: Lets be fair and honest about this. Here is a company that single handedly created the market for Personal Computers, brought computing to ordinary folks like you and me, made it affordable by encouraging mass acceptance and constantly strives to provide us ease of use in every sphere it touche

    Gee, I remember something called the Apple II doing this long before microsoft was the force it was. What a maroon.

    1. Re:Terrible article by ScentCone · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Gee, I remember something called the Apple II doing this long before microsoft was the force it was

      Now, be reasonable. The Apple II never saw the penetration into (especially small) businesses that even the earliest, crudest PCs immediately had. The PC, running DOS even, was hugely successful. When Windows hit, it made word processor users out of millions of people that had never even heard of the Apple II or had any inclination to spend Mac sort of money.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    2. Re:Terrible article by Ohreally_factor · · Score: 4, Funny

      First of all, the writing is less than stellar. Second, all of it is opinion based without any sort of facts to back it up, or in depth explanation of his point.

      I think you're being too kind. The writer comes across as a not too bright 12 year old. In other words, I think we may have just witnessed the birth of India's version of Rob Enderle.

      --
      It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
    3. Re:Terrible article by mrtrumbe · · Score: 2, Informative
      Except, as this guy said, Apple products cost a whole lot! Imagine the cost of Apple products if there weren't any Windows products. How does $4000 for a mac mini sound to you?

      This is nothing but baseless speculation. Are you trying to tell me that if MS never existed or succeeded that no other computer company would have filled the gap? If so, you are forgetting a lot of history.

      Think of IBM, Be, Amiga, NeXT, etc., etc. Had Microsoft not existed, these companies might have had a chance to secure more market share. Further, if there were more than two players on the PC realm, interoperability and standards might have been more important and faster in coming.

      Now, all of this is just baseless speculation as well, but it makes at least as much sense as your, or the CoolTechZone troll's, ramblings.

      Taft

    4. Re:Terrible article by prell · · Score: 2, Funny
      Here is a company that single handedly created the market for Personal Computers, brought computing to ordinary folks like you and me, made it affordable
      Dictatorships are always remarkably efficient and cheap! If anyone disagrees with you: off with his head!

      +5 Street cred
    5. Re:Terrible article by Your+Pal+Dave · · Score: 2, Funny
      The writer comes across as a not too bright 12 year old. In other words, I think we may have just witnessed the birth of India's version of Rob Enderle.

      It came across to me an awful lot like Gerald Holmes.
  15. Is it wrong to love Microsoft? by ab384 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Short answer: yes.

    Long answer: yes.

    Evidence: slashdot.org

    Next!

  16. Mac OS costs more? by Starker_Kull · · Score: 2, Informative

    What price sheet have you been reading? Or do you know the difference between hardware and software?

  17. wrong by tomstdenis · · Score: 4, Informative

    Windows is NOT easy to use *correctly*.

    This "ease of use" includes people running as Admin with all the services running and basically wide open to the universe. That's "ease of use".

    I won't pretend that Linux or BSD is any easier but I really don't think this "ease of use" label is meaningful.

    "Chainsaws are easy to use!" -- Said the current reigning king of the one armed people.

    Tom

    --
    Someday, I'll have a real sig.
  18. Heh by mogrify · · Score: 4, Funny

    I think it's the most over rated piece of software ever built and survives simply out of spite and not because it is terribly good at doing something because it is not!

    This is the greatest sentence ever written in the history of man. Thank you for your penetrating insight.

    --
    perl -e 'foreach(values %SIG){$_="IGNORE";}while(){}'
  19. Yes, wrong to love Microsoft by ReformedExCon · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Yes, absolutely it is wrong to love Microsoft. For that matter, it is wrong to love any company that you are not directly a part of, and even then loving a company is fraught with pitfalls. Love is something that must be reciprocated in order to have any meaning. It is a shame that English has evolved to the point where we "love" or "hate" things that we enjoy or dislike.

    Microsoft has done a lot of things, some good, some bad, some neither. Businesses are just that way. Is Microsoft worthy of respect? Sure. They have done something that other computer companies only dream of: they own several of the markets that they are part of. But does that mean we should hate them? Does it mean we should love them? Of course not.

    People who feel strong emotions towards companies that they have very little part in (having neither worked there nor been part of the founding and building of it) are misdirecting their emotions. Save your love for your neighbor, don't waste it on Microsoft.

    --
    Jesus saved me from my past. He can save you as well.
  20. Plug and play not pioneering on Windows by Akito · · Score: 5, Insightful
    From the story:
    ...(plug and play springs to mind) but it was a pioneering effort. No one was even close to the ease of use that Windows offered. Sure, Mac OS was a lot prettier but then it cost the moon and the stars along with both your arms and legs.

    Plug and play was by no means a pioneering effort by Microsoft, the Macintosh has had it forever, so long in-fact that it had no name on Mac OS, not until it was a new feature in Windows did Microsoft give it a name. We Mac users just knew it as "stuff working when I plug it in just like it should"
    Also I would argue (and I know there are many on both sides) that the Mac OS was prettier, cost more, and was easier to use as well.
  21. There is a price for what you want by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful
    "...Mac OS was a lot prettier but then it cost the moon and the stars along with both your arms and legs."
    Good things cost more, it's a fact

    If you want a good car, you'll pay more than if you just want a cheap car...

    1. Re:There is a price for what you want by kaalamaadan · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes. But what if you want a cheap computer? That is better than nothing at all. I do not want the best computer, I want something that does bare minumum. When you look at this in this way, I think Microsoft is nobler (and less effecient) than Apple. Microsoft in a way made the PC revolution possible, with all its negative side-effects.

    2. Re:There is a price for what you want by alcmaeon · · Score: 4, Funny

      Computers that do the bare minimum are called fingers.

    3. Re:There is a price for what you want by Zero+to+Hero · · Score: 5, Insightful
      If you want a good car, you'll pay more than if you just want a cheap car...

      The real problem is I want a GREAT car but some company is out there trying to change the gas pumps so they only work with the cheap cars.

    4. Re:There is a price for what you want by IAmTheDave · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'm a software developer by trade, but am I the only one who owns a Mac and runs virtual PC with Windows XP, 2000, and Linux (Ubuntu, in my case)??

      Or perhaps runs Windows XP and uses QEMU for Windows 2000 and Linux or runs Linux, and uses VMWare for Windows XP and PearPC for Mac OSX?

      My point is that all of these OS wars, and I use - actively - all three major flavors. And I know I can't be alone. Why use only a hammer to build a house when you have so many different tools in your toolbox?

      --
      Excuse my speling.
      Making The Bar Project
    5. Re:There is a price for what you want by kzarling · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But, to continue the car analogy, one could say Windows is like the Model T of operating systems. Not the best, but the first one that started making it feasible to get one in everybody's house.

      Not the best analogy, I know, but it is closer to what the article is trying to say.

    6. Re:There is a price for what you want by SolusSD · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Macs were never THAT much more expensive than a comparable windows box. Blown way out of proportion.

    7. Re:There is a price for what you want by tsa · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Certainly. Also keep in mind that Bill Gates et al. never intended to make good software. They saw an emerging market with a lot of potential and wanted to make mony fast. It just so happened that they were extremely good at it. The rest is history.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    8. Re:There is a price for what you want by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You missed the choice bit, though:
      No one was even close to the ease of use that Windows offered.

      It's a flat-out lie. He can say this only because he immediately says that Mac doesn't count because of price. The reality is that Mac was much easier to use, but more expensive and not as well marketed. People almost always choose price over quality. The whole climate today, most obvious in Washington, is that you can't say "We're 20% better", you have to say, "We're 5000% better in every way!!!!". So, he loses points with me for lieing to better sell what he wanted to be able to say.

      It also bothers me that the apologists can dismiss so many past actions. "Sure they made shitty products for years that gave the whole industry a bad name, and entrenched some very bad programming and release practices, but XP works pretty well, so that makes everything OK." I think that in a healthier marketplace there is a good chance that MS wouldn't have lived long enough to release XP. Selling better products doesn't make up for nasty (illegal) business practices that hurt the consumer. I also think that it's bad practice to release known crap in the 1.0 version, figuring you'll fix it later. If you did that with a physical product, you'd have to do a recall, and it would devestate your financials. I am willing to forgive the past, but not until they prove that they have changed their ways, which they have no intention of doing.

      Personally, I tend to be middle-of-the-road (where you get run over a lot). There are a lot of things I don't like about Windows, but I use it for the advantages it does provide (application support). With 2000 and XP they finally have a pretty good OS offering. I use Linux as well, and I like it a lot, but it just doesn't have the commercial support, which makes a lot of things hard or impossible. Even the things it does do are often somewhat harder than they really should be. I haven't had much chance to use a Mac, but I hear they're very nice, too. To each his own. Competition is good.

      Good things cost more, it's a fact

      You're not a Linux or BSD user, are you?

    9. Re:There is a price for what you want by ukdba · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Erm, perhaps because he'd prefer to be able to use MacOSX and Ubuntu (and even Windows) at the same time? Perhaps because he preloads Ubuntu on VPC and then doesn't have to arse around whilst waiting for his machine to reboot every time he wishes to change environments? Perhaps because he's really proud of having a machine with 28 days uptime?

      Point is, who cares why he does it? It's his bloody decision and it obviously works best for him.

    10. Re:There is a price for what you want by Lally+Singh · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Because MS's "tool" is actually just a rotting scrotum, flopping mercilessly at those nails, only getting damaged in the process.

      Seriously. If the market was empty and all three OSs suddenly came on at the same time, would anyone bother with windows? The only good thing about windows is its user base.

      --
      Care about electronic freedom? Consider donating to the EFF!
    11. Re:There is a price for what you want by JaySSSS · · Score: 2

      Keep in mind that AOL started out as a Mac only service. I was a charter member back in the late 80's. Granted, I got rid of them in the mid-90's

      On the original subject, Microsoft HAS acted in non-competitive ways, and it's been proven in more than just Europe. Oh, and the lawsuits from Sun, etc. started before they started losing money.

      Yes, historically, the Mac was more expensive, but not any longer. However, many of the features that you see in Windows these days were pioneered on the Mac years earlier.

      Kernel recompiles???? Try cleaning your registry after spyware has infected it!

      I have to admit, the idea of working for MS back in the late '80s and early '90s seemed really cool at the time when I was graduating from College, but in retrospect I'm glad I didn't. (although my bank account probably isn't :-)

    12. Re:There is a price for what you want by halber_mensch · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Yes. But what if you want a cheap computer? That is better than nothing at all. I do not want the best computer, I want something that does bare minumum. When you look at this in this way, I think Microsoft is nobler (and less effecient) than Apple. Microsoft in a way made the PC revolution possible, with all its negative side-effects.

      Microsoft Vista - It Just (Barely) Works!

      To revisit the car analogy, I think anyone that's ever been in a wreck in a Pinto or a Corvair will tell you the negative implications to such a philosophy.

      And the PC revolution was here without Microsoft. The IBM PC was not made possible by Microsoft, Microsoft only got a deal on OS licensing. If MS hadn't been around, the PC would still have hit the market with a different OS (CP/M perhaps, which by all accounts was the most successful OS of the day and of which QDOS - to be usurped and called MS-DOS - was a rough implementation), or perhaps ATARI would have stepped up in its place. Most probably Apple would have retained the PC throne. In any case, Microsoft did not make the PC possible, it only latched on to a market for profit. There was nothing noble about it, Bill Gates and his cronies made a deal with IBM to distribute exclusively a fictional OS that MS didn't have, bought QDOS from SCP, and gave it to IBM as their own. They used a cheap and dirty gamble to get their position and fortune, not a noble move on behalf of home computer users everywhere as you would pretend.

      --
      perl -e "eval pack(q{H*},join q{},qw{70 72696e74207061636b28717b482a7d2c717b343 637323635363534323533343430617d293b})"
    13. Re:There is a price for what you want by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Certainly. Also keep in mind that Bill Gates et al. never intended to make good software. They saw an emerging market with a lot of potential and wanted to make mony fast. It just so happened that they were extremely good at it.

      That's not really true. They were barely adequate at creating software in the early days.

      They started out with a bought copy of the base for both their OS and for BASIC. These weren't even the most advanced things going in the day, but they managed to acquire them.

      What they were exceedingly good at is signing a contract with IBM that said all PCs would have their operating system on it. As the PC marketplace grew, it gave them a pretty much locked in revenue stream.

      Once they had made a butt-load of money, they had the resources the hire a bunch of developers and actually start doing more.

      But make no mistake about it, they didn't get where they are due to the (initial) quality of their product offerings. They got there by locking everybody in to Microsoft as early in the PC industry as you could get, and growing with an emerging market.

      That's why we had to have court cases saying we're allowed to buy a PC which doesn't include a Microsoft OS on it and requiring they get paid for every single PC sold. Because people decided having to pay Microsoft for a PC which would run Linux was just plain wrong.
      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    14. Re:There is a price for what you want by jpickett · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think it's great how people are so trusting of all the non-MS companies to think that if they were in the same situation Microsoft is, they wouldn't do the exact same thing.

      In fact, Apple's iPod (which I own) is just as bad in how they lock it down. Not to mention how much I love people defending Apple's decision to not allow their OS to run on non-Apple hardware. That's classic Microsoft, yet the same people bashing MS will defend Apple. I don't get it.

    15. Re:There is a price for what you want by Golias · · Score: 5, Funny

      considering that half the population statistically has problems with fractions

      Holy crap! That must be... what? About 28% or so?

      Pathetic!

      --

      Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

    16. Re:There is a price for what you want by codeguy007 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Hmm that's not really true. The spreadsheet made the IBM PC the business computer of choice and Microsoft was taken along for a ride because of the license agreement IBM made with them. It's IBMs fault we are stuck with such a buggy collection of stolen ideas that Windows is.

      The original article is just a load of baloney. The guy asking is obviously clueless.

      Really what has microsoft given us?

      Did they develop the GUI?

      No Xerox did. And no Apple didn't develop it.

      Hey they sell alot of mice. Did they develop mice?

      No Xerox did.

      Hey they support Ethernet. Did they develop ethernet?

      No Xerox did.

      Did they develop the Browser?

      No NCSA did.

      Did they develop the Internet?

      No Darpa did. Yes that's right it wasn't Al Gore.

      Did they develop the word processor?

      No.

      Did they develop Desktop Publishing Software?

      No

      Did they develop Diagramming software like visio?

      No they bought visio.

      So tell me what did Microsoft give us other than a combination of other peoples technologies and ideas?

    17. Re:There is a price for what you want by scooterphish · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Same here.
      I use Windows at work because the Powers That Be said It Is So. My file/MP3 storage server at home is Ubuntu and my personal computer is a Mac running OS X - the beauty and USEABILITY of Mac with the power FreeBSD under the hood if I need it. A geek-artist's wet dream.

    18. Re:There is a price for what you want by bufalo_1973 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Microsoft DOES NOT make drivers. They come with the devices. If they came with MacOS and Linux drivers this would be fair play, but telling "Linux is worse 'cause it doesn't have drivers" is at least unfair. And where are the XP drivers for obsolete hardware? Well, obsolete if you think this means out of catalog. Many "obsolete" devices are still working, but you can't use them in XP 'cause there are no drivers.

      And viruses are not in direct relation to the market share: STs and Amigas had viruses without a near market monopoly. Viruses are just programs that use the flaws of a system. If there are less flaws there are less (posible) viruses.

    19. Re:There is a price for what you want by DaHat · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Often the person who invents something is not as important as who can make it into a working product, at least in the business world.

      The Wright brothers invented the airplane, but were not able to turn it into a successful business venture, leaving plenty of room for others to come in and dominate the market.

      Take cars for example, Henry Ford certainly did not invent the automobile, he just created a better way of doing it, along the way creating an empire based on his early work that has enabled his company to go further than he or anyone else at the time could have predicted.

      Sure, Microsoft may not have invented many of those products you mentioned, but they certainly have taken each and turned them into major players in ways that their original inventors were not able to.

    20. Re:There is a price for what you want by theAtomicFireball · · Score: 5, Funny
      So tell me what did Microsoft give us other than a combination of other peoples technologies and ideas?

      You've clearly forgotten about Microsoft Bob.
    21. Re:There is a price for what you want by Lodragandraoidh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In reply to the parent: the word 'leech' comes to mind.

      From the begining the Microsoft crew has ridden the back of the PC industry. Not only have they blood-sucked consumers, they have made life hell for developers by leveraging their monopoly on the desktop to suppress standards, maniacal attempts to bring all developers to a mediocre 'good enough' level of capabilities (considering they are competing directly with the same developers they support, this is not surprising).

      --

      Lodragan Draoidh
      The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
    22. Re:There is a price for what you want by dlZ · · Score: 2, Funny

      Actually, Acer makes the Ferarri notebook =D

      --
      rm -rf ./evidence @ punkcomp
    23. Re:There is a price for what you want by Gilmoure · · Score: 2, Funny

      Loving my computer is wrong? Even in the dark of the basement night?

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    24. Re:There is a price for what you want by Dr.+Evil · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If the market were empty and no software existed for any platform, developers would swarm to Windows because of the good developer documentation and long-term support for APIs.

      If the market were empty and software existed for all the platforms, users would flock to Windows because of the low price and good software interoperability.

      If the market were empty and software existed in equal parts for all OSes, Linux, while cheapest, would have the worst interoperation between the software packages, Windows would probably still do best because hardware manufacturers would be locked out of the Mac market and make lots of cheap Windows and Linux compatible hardware.

      Something like BeOS would have kicked butt in such a fantasy, or 10 years ago, OS/2.

      Microsoft's Windows product is not an OS, it's the API for software and drivers, along with their support, documentation, marketing and userbase. Nobody cares about the OS, they even changed OSes and aside from some boost in stability and better PnP, most of their userbase didn't notice.

      Linux is a great OS, but it has a lousy fluctuating API for software and drivers, great support mind you, poor documentation, nearly zero marketing and an insignificant userbase. Where it does have a good API, POSIX-ish stuff, it does great... which limits it to the server arena.

      If Microsoft were to port Windows to Linux in a similar way as Macintosh kinda ported MacOS to BSD, now that would be a very cool "OS"

    25. Re:There is a price for what you want by dindi · · Score: 3, Funny

      and why do they screw up almost everything :

      authentication schemes, document formats, network protocolls ...

      there is a microsoft touch that makes it NOT WORK with anything else unless you hack the hell out of the program (of course the correctly working open source one) turning it into a crippled version ....

      Well dunno how it is nowadays, I refuse to give tech support develop, install or touch any windows machine for the last 4 days :)

    26. Re:There is a price for what you want by spectre_240sx · · Score: 3, Funny

      Dear god you've blinded my mind's eye with that description! Why, oh why, must you be so descriptive with your horrible male genitalia focused analogies?

    27. Re:There is a price for what you want by xtracto · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Wow wow wow give me a break mods

      Quoting GP:
      Because MS's "tool" is actually just a rotting scrotum, flopping mercilessly at those nails, only getting damaged in the process.

      and the comment is modded +5 insigthful???

      Quoting parent:
      . It is exceedingly terrible to use. You have to struggle with it forever to get any app to load. Can't play games unless you know that you need to DL a shitload of dependencies.

      See the difference? GP is just saying a lot of bad words and swearing things about windows... while Parent says some things that are sad but half truth (YES Linux is terrible to use, at least it is EASIER to use Windows OVERALL, thats why J6P prefeer WinXP), about the app loading I think it does no thold, and the dependencies problem man.. I have passed that hell once and it is INDEED a shit.

      So come on fucking mods! if parent is a flamebait then GP is more flamebait, this REALLY PISSES ME OFF ABOUT SLASHDOT! and I know my comment will be also moded down.... but noooooo when it is about Linux it is flamebait, you can see in this thread the subjectivity of this site... grow up please

      --
      Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
    28. Re:There is a price for what you want by The+Lynxpro · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "BZZZZZT! Thanks for playing. Remember that your beloved Apple is now using a purchased OS, from Next!"

      Completely different scenario. Apple may have acquired NeXT, but NeXT was founded by Jobs, so that was just Apple Computer v. 2.0. At least OS X recognizes that its origins come from BSD, whereas Microsoft again takes portions of BSD, hides it in Windows, and contributes nothing back (thanks to the marvelous BSD license).

      That's like arguing that Apple ripped off the GUI (like Microsoft) from Xerox PARC, when in truth, Apple had a licensing agreement with Xerox, traded stock, and under Scully, almost acquired Xerox. Microsoft didn't do that, they just stole, or, "creatively acquired" if you prefer that term...just as they had stolen MS-DOS from Digital Research a few short years before.

      Microsoft is not an innovative company technically speaking. They are only innovative in terms of their business practices and getting away with something even AT&T couldn't a decade before.

      --
      "Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
    29. Re:There is a price for what you want by The+Lynxpro · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Funny, because I remember buying thousands of PCs with IBM-DOS or OS/2 pre-installed on them in 1994. Prior to 1995, Microsoft didn't have a lock on the desktop."

      Yes they [Microsoft] did. You don't think Microsoft didn't make money off IBM's PC-DOS or OS/2? Think again. Strike one.

      In that time period, the only way you could get away with not paying the Microsoft tax (aside from pirating) was buying non PC hardware...that being an Apple Macintosh, an Amiga, or an Atari ST. I'm not counting NeXT or Sun hardware in that category because they weren't exactly considered PCs in that era...

      "Microsoft won the desktop war by being better than the competition at providing what corporations are interested in - useable applications."

      OS/2 ran Windows apps. Strike two.

      "Give credit where it's due. Without Windows 95 we'd all be running OS/2 by now and the Internet wouldn't be nearly as accessible."

      Credit is not due. Guess you've never heard of OS/2 Warp for PCs. And Macs could access the net without Microsoft's software. Lynx and Mosaic worked on Amigas and Atari STs, not to mention software like Stik and Cab. Strike three.

      --
      "Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
    30. Re:There is a price for what you want by The+Lynxpro · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Ever hear of a program called Lotus 1-2-3? or Wordperfect?"

      Ever heard of Visicalc? How about WordStar? dBASE?

      --
      "Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
    31. Re:There is a price for what you want by The+Lynxpro · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "In fact, Apple's iPod (which I own) is just as bad in how they lock it down. Not to mention how much I love people defending Apple's decision to not allow their OS to run on non-Apple hardware. That's classic Microsoft, yet the same people bashing MS will defend Apple. I don't get it."

      I call Bullshite. Apple didn't create their preferred audio codec (unlike Microsoft). They use Dolby's AAC. Encoded music using AAC does not sound "tinny" like Microsoft's rival WMA format. The iPod does not lock out MP3 files.

      What does the iPod deliberately lock out? WMA. But why would you want to buy "tinny" music? While I had all the chance in the world to use the WinAMP plugin exploit to download as much free music c/o Napster's stupidity, I chose not to, because I can't stand how WMA sounds.

      Does the iPod support OGG or FLAC? Nope. And that's a criticism. But is Apple doing that deliberately to squash OGG? No. They just don't see the support cost catering to some folks on Slashdot versus the hordes of the unwashed masses who don't care one way or another. If you want to change their mind, buy some shares, and advocate for the iPod supporting those open source codecs.

      Now, the iTunes Music Store does lock out non-iPod players. However, since 80% of the MP3 player market in the U.S. is accounted for by iPod sales, do you really blame them in not supporting some throwaway obscure product sold at Fry's? Nope. And in all fairness, Jobs did offer a 50% stake in the store to Sony, but Sony turned them down because Sony's former president thought they'd do better on their own with the totally unpopular and exclusive Sony Connect store. Had Sony's former president had foresight, we would have iTunes Music Store support for all of Sony's MP3 player offerings, as well as the PSP, Sony Ericsson phones, and assuredly on the upcoming PS3. Blame Sony, not Apple on that decision.

      ps. Napster and the other WMA offering stores don't support Apple Mac OS X. Microsoft has also not released a Windows Media Player 10 equivalent on Mac OS X either. What's good for the goose...

      --
      "Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
    32. Re:There is a price for what you want by arbitraryaardvark · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Did they develop the GUI?
      No Xerox did. And no Apple didn't develop it.

      Edison didn't invent the lightbulb. It had been demonstrated in the lab 20 years earlier. Edison made some improvements, mass-marketed and mass-produced lightbulbs, and built the infrastructure to bring them to the home and office.
      Ford didn't invent the automobile. Ford made some improvements, used massproduction to bring the cost down to make it affordable for the average home and office.
      The original article is a rant, with spelling and grammar errors and some weak arguments and claims.
      But it has a valid central point.
      Bill Gates is (approximately) the world's richest man because he, as much as anyone, made computers accessible and affordable to the average home and office.
      We can whine that Edison screwed Tesla, and electric cars were better than model A's, and Sarnof screwed Farnsworth, and Sinatra killed Kennedy, and so forth, but I'm happy to be living in a world where a billion people are online.
      We don't know how things would have played out if there had been no microsoft.
      The open source movement at some point should give us something better than windows, but it's still not here yet. Apple is still making Volvos in a Ford world, catering to a niche market which can afford a better product at a higher price.
        Windows has been the electric light bulb and the model A that made the new technology accessible to the masses.

    33. Re:There is a price for what you want by snorklewacker · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Bob came with a help system called Cue Cards, which is actually quite nice.

      Clippy came from Bob. Clippy's actually a good idea executed poorly. Reparenting alerts, tips, and help into a predictable place is a GOOD thing, or do you actually prefer modal popups for everything? The interaction API is pretty sweet too, though that it really doesn't require an "agent". Poor execution by having the damn thing constantly calling attention to itself. They fell so in love with the idea that they assumed everyone else would.

      But no, I must of course I must hate clippy with infantile apopleptic rage, clippyhate bellyfeelwise doubleplusgood all.

      --
      I am no longer wasting my time with slashdot
    34. Re:There is a price for what you want by Physics+Nobody · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Give credit where it's due. Without Windows 95 we'd all be running OS/2 by now and the Internet wouldn't be nearly as accessible."

      Um...that's some kind of a joke, right?

      Microsoft didn't give a shit about the internet in the early days. They were pushing their own proprietary Prodigy/Compuserve-esque solution. OS/2 had everything you needed for internet access built in well before Windows ever did.

      --

      Physics is good

    35. Re:There is a price for what you want by snorklewacker · · Score: 4, Funny

      > I think I'll wait for next year's model - I hear they'll include toes!

      Yeah, but they're only usable before you boot.

      --
      I am no longer wasting my time with slashdot
    36. Re:There is a price for what you want by The+Lynxpro · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "um... I htought that was the GP's point. Apple is just as bad as microsoft. And if they were in the position of MS, they would do the exact same things to other companies."

      Really. Apple's Mac OS X operating system is built atop a semi-open-source operating system, whereas Windows is not. Apple's Safari web browser is a standards-compliant web browser based upon an open source Linux program. Internet Explorer is not. Apple released Bonjour as open-source (which HP and TiVo readily implemented). What has Microsoft done open-source wise? They aren't the same. Not in the least.

      "you realize the reason the Itunes music store is lokced out to other players is because the itunes format is copywrited and apple refuses to liscense it. while they woudl have early on, they can sense their impending doom as 10's of other companies are gearing up to attack this market."

      The format is not locked. Apple refuses to license Fairplay - their DRM - to other companies, right now. Dolby licenses AAC to anyone interested. Get your facts straight. And 10 companies selling music in the same alternative format (WMA) does not mean 10 strong competitors. The MP3 player market is locked up. The next battlefront is the cell phone market, and all of the American carriers are doing their best to make sure they themselves call the shots in that aspect.

      "now go the other way, apple won't support the other 20 percent of the market place. Why should MS support less than 5% of the market place by doing anything for apple??"

      Why did Microsoft port Internet Explorer and MSN Messenger to Mac OS X? Why do they still offer Office on Macs? They profit very well off the Mac platform, as they always have. Get your facts straight.

      "apple has always been the company vying for a complete monopoly in computer hardware, thank god they failed."

      Yeah, it is too bad that the modern computer market is dominated by a microprocessor family (x86) created to run Coca-Cola vending machines instead of a modern RISC architecture. Yep, thank Zoroaster Apple failed.

      "Because then they would have extended that to software."

      No they wouldn't have. Apple never seriously challenged Microsoft Word on their own platform. They actually encouraged Microsoft working on it throughout the Mac's history.

      "all I have to deal with is a software monopoly with so much competition its only monopoly is with the uninformed."

      You must be referring to yourself.

      "also, you do know shareholders(esp. small ones) have absolutely no say in the strategic business decisions of a company like apple except in that they can vote for a different member of the board. So really, buying shares is a completely worthless endeavor."

      Are you really that uninformed? Through the proxie process, shareholders can force issues onto the table for all of the shareholders to vote on. You might do a Google Search on *shareholder activism* before typing another ignorant comment on Slashdot. Look up *CalPERS* while you are at it too.

      I take that back. You seriously need to find a monolith to learn a great deal from first.

      --
      "Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
    37. Re:There is a price for what you want by mystran · · Score: 3, Interesting

      As a long time Linux user and developer, I recently started learning a bit of Windows programming as well. It wasn't a good choice. It made me envy every single Windows developer.

      Microsoft's best product ever is the Win32 API. It's somewhat sad to see that they seem to be trying to replace it with something worse. But as long as it lasts, it's pretty much the developers dream (the actual implementation might not be).

      I'm probably not going to install Windows any time soon. I don't like it as a user, and I can cross-compile with Mingw on Linux just fine. Wine let's me do the initial tests, and I can use my girlfriends box to do the rest.

      But I don't see myself doing that much (non-server) Linux development in the future, at least not until X is replaced with something else. Preferably with something that fits into the POSIX API. At present, mixing the two is just too painful.

      PS. The network transparency of X is overrated. You can't really do pretty graphics without shared memory and/or heavy console-side logic, and if it doesn't even do sound, then what's it's advantage to a tool like VNC?

      --
      Software should be free as in speech, but if we also get some free beer, all the better.
    38. Re:There is a price for what you want by aussersterne · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sure, Microsoft may not have invented many of those products you mentioned, but they certainly have taken each and turned them into major players in ways that their original inventors were not able to.

      In every listed case above the original product was either better than or equivalent in every way to the one that Microsoft "turned into a major player."

      There is ONE reason alone that Microsoft makes markets for products that otherwise most people don't know about, and that's the MS Monopoly. Microsoft takes a good idea that works well but that most people don't have access to and makes (usually a lesser version of) it available to PC users (often without crediting or compensating its creator).

      The most vexing aspect of this is that when said good idea (in poor MS form) spreads like wildfire throughout the world by virtue of the MS monopoly, the majority of sheep out there believe that MS invented it (MS not being unhappy about the misconception in the least), and then go about re-writing history. I don't know how many times I've cringed at computer magazines, computer and technology anchors on cable news, hosts of radio call-in computer shows, etc. that OBVIOUSLY bought their first computer with Windows 95 and believe that the information age was invented by Microsoft, and that before whiz-kid Billy G., the poor old-fashioned people in science and academics and business wrote on stone tables and hit each other with clubs way back in the dark '1980s' that pre-date, well, everything.

      And of course since Joe Q. Public hears John Q. Radio say that Microsoft invented windowing, mice, desktop publishing, networking, and digital media, and Joe Q. Public has some sort of irrational faith in mass media, from then on you can't tell him anything else, because he won't believe you.

      "John Q. Radio and Jack T. Television said that before Microsoft there was no such thing as electricity, so it must be true. What's your source?"

      News for young slashdotters: scripting, programming, networks, desktop publishing, the Internet, games, multiuser and online games, databases, spreadsheets, windowing, mice, context menus, widgets, office suites, cutting and pasting, hard drives, floppy drives, removable storage, plug-and-play, and pretty much damn near ANYTHING else you can name, existed WELL before Microsoft introduced them. And in fact, if you do an unbiased comparison between their original incarnations years (and in some cases decades) ago on other platforms and the CURRENT PC versions, you will often be flabbergased to find that the original is better in many, many ways, if a bit out of date.

      --
      STOP . AMERICA . NOW
    39. Re:There is a price for what you want by namekuseijin · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "Microsoft's best product ever is the Win32 API"

      ok, i've had my quota of ROTF for today

      let's move on...

      little advice: move over from anciente things like the XLib API or Win32 to something more modern, like GTK or Qt, perhaps, and then we talk...

      --
      I don't feel like it...
    40. Re:There is a price for what you want by pnutjam · · Score: 2, Funny

      Can I use your girlfriends box too?

  22. Regardless of your opinion... by colin_young · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...that was some god-awful writing. I think cool tech zone needs some editors.

  23. Fatuous nonsense. by Concern · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What they "pioneered" was using feedback and network effects to force a marketplace to accept an inferior product at monopolist prices, costing the world trillions in lost productivity and lost opportunities.

    --
    Tired of Political Trolls? Opt Out!
  24. Why was this even published? by hcdejong · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Dubey doesn't get why MS is hated, that much is obvious from the "article". Rather than providing arguments, he publishes a load of fanboy drivel that's as inane as any Linux or Mac zealotry I've seen.
    IOW: Nothing to see here, move along.

    Okay, if you insist:
    FTA: It is about time we stopped being hypocritical and appreciated a job really well done.
    But it isn't. Popular or not, most of their products are mediocre hack-jobs that thrive despite their quality, not because of it.

  25. Wow by protoshoggoth · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Good lord, it's a troll article.

  26. Well written by crimsonclear · · Score: 4, Funny

    Finally, an article that actually gives Microsoft an objective look not skewered by the linux and mac trolls on the net

    1. Re:Well written by aug24 · · Score: 3, Funny

      I take it at least one mod can't detect sarcasm, you insightful fellow you ;-)

      --
      You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me.
  27. Windows != Pioneering by kulakovich · · Score: 5, Insightful


    To say that Windows was a "Pioneering" effort is like saying Columbus "Discovered" America, when there were already people living here.

    Give me a break. Why do people insist on re-writing history?

    kulakovich

  28. isn't hate just a result of wounded love? by ekran · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It is very easy, when you live in your own OS world, to reach out your hand and point at all the other OSes and say, 'they are bad!", and I'm not saying that people hasn't tried that other OS they are pointing at. I'm saying that they've dug themselves into a religious trench holding their position in fear of discovering something new or to have let go of their hate for the other, different things.

    Yes, I've made the very same mistake. I held onto my precious Amiga until early 1995, only to find out that I've lost years of Intel PC experience by looking the other way. I also was a poor student back then too, so I wasn't likely to buy myself a new computer. But I think the OS love/hate wars are very much the same as the old Amiga/PC discussions.

    My personal experience has lead me to atleast try and stay away from the religious discussion, they never lead to anything constructive. I have both Windows and Linux PCs at home, and I use them all with erhm.. almost equal passion and love.

    When the OS you are using meet your needs in terms of quality and functionality, and you're satisfied with that. Then why go to the step of switching platform? If Mr. X at accounting has a PC that does the job for him, then why should he go to the bothering step of switching?

    Getting a bit side tracked here, well, Microsoft and Windows. I think the problem is, a lot of people are confusing the OS with the company. The way Microsoft has been conducting business is appaling. Whether people wanna respect and give some love to their OS, or not, well.. I don't care.

  29. He's missing a point about Linux... by theotherlight · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Is this just me? I really think he's missing what Linux is all about. It's not supposed to be the most user-friendly environment. There are people that WANT to have to "recompile the kernel if [they] want to so much as change your modem" because they're looking for that kind of option and flexibility.

    I'm not even a hardcore Linux user (I've had Fedora Core for only a few months now) and even I can see this. Am I entirely wrong?

    --
    The cat's in the bag and the bag's in the river.
    1. Re:He's missing a point about Linux... by FishFlier · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's true that Linux offers almost unlimited customization, but that is also it's down fall. 90% of computer users want something that works out of the box, not something that takes a day or two for someone somewhat computer litterate to setup. I'm not trying to bash Linux, and I have a couple hobby boxes of my own, but I just don't see it ever taking of as a general desktop OS. I would have to quit my job and support family members full time if Linux were the main OS right now. :(

    2. Re:He's missing a point about Linux... by ssj_195 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Having to "recompile a kernel" does not constitute an "option", in my book :) Also, modern Desktop Linux distributions definitely do aspire to be user-friendly; it's just that adding the nebulous quality that is "user-friendlinesss" is an immensely tricky task.

      There are several pairs of goals that preclude or inhibit the other ("security" vs "convenience" is probably one), but I don't think "user-friendliness" and "options and flexibilty" need necessarily be in opposition in any way, especially with a system as open from kernel to DE's as Linux is. Give me a system that can install easily on a wide-range of hardware (and Linux is making great strides in this area - the near-random bundling of parts that comprises my desktop PC requires far less effort to configure and set-up under Linux than it does under Windows, though other people's mileage will vary tremendously) but still give me the ability to tweak the source (or just give me lots of configuration options - I'm a KDE fan, if you haven't guessed) and I'll be happy as a clam. Give me the latter without the former, and all you've done is make my life unnecessarily difficult.

  30. Agreed by cached · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I definately agree. I know I am probably going to be modded troll for saying this, but Windows is a VERY reasonable OS. Crashes all the time you say? My computer hasnt crashed for over 3 years. Don't get me wrong, I use linux as well, but this site seems to be far too rabidly anti-MS.

    Really does sound like they lost some of their 'charisma' (what was still left amongst the non /. crowd) by taking so long for making Vista, which from what I heard did not live up to its hype.

    --
    +1 funny, -2 overrated. Life isn't fair.
  31. aaah memories... by Phil246 · · Score: 2, Funny

    It has given us Windows, sure, it was buggy earlier and a lot of things didn't work like they were supposed to (plug and play springs to mind)

    Did anyone else just remember back to that lovely lovely video of good 'ol Bill , and that scanner :)
    'Plug and play' *grin*

  32. Before you all flame him ... by Mr_Silver · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I'm assuming this should be in the "It's funny, laugh" section since the user hasn't a clue about why Windows makes it easy to run viruses (everything can be executable) and what the DOJ investigation was about (monopolistic practices).

    Having said all that, there is nothing wrong (as such) with loving Microsoft. If you like a product, find it easy to use and it allows you to do what you want to do, spend less time doing boring stuff and generally make the time you spend with it enjoyable then good for you. Some people can't stand it, some people love it.

    Personally, I don't have a problem with Windows. I know it inside out (well, reasonably), can troubleshoot the few problems I have and so I'm reluctant to change to something else. Yes, the shell is a bit crappy, but XP+Cygwin in my mind is better and easier than Linux especially when under the latter my modem, sound card and network all fail to work.

    Finally as for the "loving" comments, I find it odd that anyone could love an operating system. For me, the majority of the added value are the applications than I run on top of it. Sure the OS may have some neat tricks and features but I spend more time tinkering and using the apps than the OS directly.

    But then I'm probably not your average Slashdot reader.

    --
    Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
  33. Re:"Is It Wrong to Love Microsoft?" by Total_Wimp · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Hey, is it possible to dislike Microsoft, but actually like Windows?

    Microsoft is a company bent on ruling the world by crushing all competition. It's a monopoly. It's taken dirty tricks to a level raw and cruel, even in their own Monopoly lawsuit.

    But I like windows. It rarely crashes, is pretty easy to use and a lot of my favorite software runs on it. Direct-X works pretty well, the registry does what it's supposed to do pretty well, and if I want to share a file on the network, it's not very complicated either to set up or use.

    Getting rid of viruses and malware is a problem, but I'm 100% sure it would be just as big a problem for Mac OSX or Red Hat Linux Workstation if those products had the market share that Windows does. It hasn't been a problem for me because I don't click on executable content I don't trust.

    Poke holes in Windows all you want. The average person actaully kind of likes it and feels some frustration when faced with using a different platform. That wouldn't be the case if it just plain sucked. Think aout it.

    TW

  34. Shockingly, I agree. by mrRay720 · · Score: 2

    I (personally) find Windows to be around the right level of trade off between the "I want to be consumer electronics" Mac ethos and the "compile your own damn Kernel, biatch" way in the Linux world.

    We all know Win9x stunk like hell. NT was too lacking inuser friendliness. Win 2k and XP really are solid and useable for a lot of people, though. The last time I say the fabled BSOD other than through overclocking and shitty drivers - probably 2001 or something.

    Office is a slick bit of kit for people like me who can make a tidy sum developing and selling (cha-ching!) custom solutions centred around it. Word surely sucks but Excel is top notch and Access being good for smaller projects.

    At the risk of sounding like an astroturfing troll, mainstream MS software just gets the job done and if you know what you're doing - with the minimum of fuss. OSS is all well and good, and a wonderful concept, but until it's got those Ts crossed and Is dotted, Microsoft just offers a more compelling option for those wanting to run a business that don't have the resources of someone like IBM.

    In 5-10 years maybe I'll be singing the praises of a Linux/OO.o/xSQL solution, and I hope so too - I like the concept and theoretical freedom.

  35. Summary by mwvdlee · · Score: 4, Insightful

    People don't hate Microsoft because of their products; they hate Microsoft because of their business practices.

    Microsoft isn't buggy, it's evil! ;)

    --
    Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
  36. Re:MAC by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 3, Funny
    Putting aside grammatical mistakes of the "article", why do people capitalize MAC as an abreviation for Macintosh? Is there some acronym I'm not familiar with...

    Magnificent Amazing Computer :-)

  37. Wow, you truly do have a death wish! by djkitsch · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Heheh, kidding.

    But seriously, I've thought this for a long while. True, it's free, and (arguably) good as a server platform. But hugely overrated - Linux nuts often (not always) seem to consider it a viable replacement to Windows or OSX for *everyone*, which it is not...especilly when you consider that users don't care about the "morals" behind their software, just whether they can share files with others and keep working the same way that they're used to.

    --
    sig:- (wit >= sarcasm)
    1. Re:Wow, you truly do have a death wish! by mogrify · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yeah, it's true that Linux has yet to pass the Grandma test. But I can think of many things that Linux is terribly good at. Even things that are incredibly easy.

      The thing is that I want to do more than just use my computer. I want to love using my computer. And I never quite have that with Windows as a whole. But I love using Linux.

      I also don't dismiss Microsoft products out of hand... I like using Windows XP although it would not work for me exclusively. Two MS products in particular I consider to be very well put together: Active Directory, and .NET. They are proof that Microsoft can still write good software.

      But I do have to say that I consider many of their business practices to be unethical. That means that I will avoid MS products if I can help it, just as I would avoid being a customer of any company that I considered unethical. It means that if someone asks my opinion about software options, I will nearly always advocate for the non-MS alternative. I'm just glad that there are alternatives available, and that I've learned enough about them to make use of them.

      My $0.02

      --
      perl -e 'foreach(values %SIG){$_="IGNORE";}while(){}'
  38. Small flaw in the argument... by sphealey · · Score: 5, Interesting

    One small flaw in the argument: Microsoft wasn't always hated. During the 1980-1990 time period (approximately), they were seen as one of the "good guys". In particular, during the movement of PCs into large corporations in the 1984-1990 period, Microsoft was viewed by many as a strong supporter of personally-directed computing resources against the tyranny of the Data Processing Department. While their technology was never the best, it had its good points (MS-DOS 3.3; even Windows 3.1), and as Steve Gibson has pointed out its openness allowed a huge industry of improvements to spring up, which formed the basis for today's software industry.

    So, my question to Microsoft fans is, what happened between 1990 and 2000 that turned Microsoft from hero to goat? You be the judge.

    sPh

    1. Re:Small flaw in the argument... by alecks · · Score: 2, Interesting

      " happened between 1990 and 2000 that turned Microsoft from hero to goat?"

      They became really popular, and we all know what happens in our society when too many people start liking something... all of a sudden it's not cool anymore and we look for reasons to hate them. We all try to distinguish ourselves from the rest. When everyone else likes microsoft, all of a sudden we feel the need to be 'different'. It's funny how it's cool for everyone to hate something, but not for everyone to love something. I bet my watch and warrant on this: Let's say in 5-20 years, some linux distro finally 'gets it right' and every mom and pop and grandma out there all of a sudden starts using linux, everyone here on slashdot who is pro-linux, will suddently find something wrong with this and turn. Just look at what happens with indy artists when they go big. we're so f8cked up.

    2. Re:Small flaw in the argument... by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 3, Interesting

      So, my question to Microsoft fans is, what happened between 1990 and 2000 that turned Microsoft from hero to goat?

      It was around 1990 that Microsoft decided to abandon its partnership with IBM in developing the powerful next-generation OS known as OS/2 and instead go solo with a lightweight GUI layer for DOS called Windows 3.0.

  39. I'm a windows zealot... by dirtydamo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    and this article is an absolute disgrace to our cause.

    Clearly there are flaws in windows, including security, which this guy just brushes under the carpet. And he clearly hasn't used linux in a while -- I can't remember having to recompile my kernel too recently to get things working.

    This isn't even an article! I've seen slashdot posts that are more insightful (and better structured).

    There are pros and cons to both OSes, and I personally feel there are more pros on the side of Windows. But this article is the kind of drivel that gives us windows fanboys a bad name.

  40. Stockholm Syndrome by OwlWhacker · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I love Microsoft. Absolutely adore it and what's more, I hate Linux. I think it's the most over rated piece of software ever built and survives simply out of spite and not because it is terribly good at doing something because it is not!

    It's funny to think that somebody would willingly make themselves look like a doofus.

    Is it wrong to love Microsoft? Do some research, like the rest of us.

    This guy sounds as if he has Stockholm Syndrome, where he has become sympathetic to his captor.

  41. Why Apple? by Pliep · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Why is this in the "Apple" category? Apple is mentioned once in TFA.

  42. Author should open eyes... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    "Linux. I think it's the most over rated piece of software ever built and survives simply out of spite and not because it is terribly good at doing something because it is not!"

    http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=http:/ /www.cooltechzone.com

    Seems it's good enough to serve TFA...

  43. I'm Confused? by doomicon · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "In a nutshell, it's not so much as that the software is secure; it's simply that no one is interested in spending sleepless nights writing a virus that won't give them the satisfaction they get from causing havoc. "

    From the latest Netcraft survey I've read, Apache still show's %70 Market Share. So according the the Author's logic, we should be seeing CodeRed, et al. for Apache NOT IIS. According to the authors logic why would someone spend "sleepless nights" focusing on the %29, instead of the %70?

    How come we don't see the same type of devestating worms that we've seen directed at IIS, being written and directed at Apache?

    Seriously, I would like to see such authors as these explain that to his readers.

    --

    Awesome!
  44. That's not a meaningful article by jiushao · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I don't dislike Microsoft nearly as much as most of Slashdot does (as evidenced by some of my earlier posts), but this article has no meaningful content and is as such pointless.

    Personally I started respecting Microsoft a whole lot more when the developers started blogging on a large scale. Few people can possibly have missed Raymond Chen's excellent blog Old New Thing which really explains a lot of the things that Slashdot would consider "cruft" and "archaic design" in Windows. For those who missed it I would recommend the post about file-system tunneling. On one hand it is a downright revolting workaround to make old apps work and behave as one would expect, but on the other hand one has to respect the obviously huge amounts of thought and effort that went into it.

    To some part this also goes back to a bit of a reaction against Slashdot and similar places obsession with hating Microsoft. They are a lot better than they were in say, 97. With NT under the hood Windows is an a lot more agreeable operating system. Slashdot may scoff at Microsofts security effort, but in all honesty it seems to be going fairly well form my perspective. Updates are quicker and more plentiful (also most vulnerabilities seem to be announced because the fix showed up on WindowsUpdate than because an exploit was found). Recompiling large part of the system with automatic buffer checks (where possible, this is C/C++ we are talking about) has helped the severity of a lot of exploits. The new low-rights IE seems to be a good approach to insulate any problems further (borrowed from UNIX daemons granted, but the OS-level security infrastructure is sound, and applying it in a useful way to desktop applications really is a new thing), check out the IE teams blog for information about that work by the way: IEBlog. They may not have had the best place to start from, but it does seem to be going the right way (I mean, hey, just getting a working software firewall in place was a huge leap forward), which I would think everyone can agree is a good thing.

    Another popular blog is Michael Kaplan's blog dealing with internationalization stuff like character encoding and input support.

    Overall I could link blogs for quite a while, pretty much all major Microsoft products have developers blogging. It can be interesting to have a read, they are often well written, have a nice technical content and give a bit more understanding for how things work (and may help cure some of the more irrational hate for Microsoft :).

    1. Re:That's not a meaningful article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I've got a good friend who works for Microsoft as a developer. Bright enough fellow, and not even slightly evil. Just doing his work, supporting his family.

      Technology wise, while I wouldn't dispute that .NET takes a lot of ideas away from Java, I also believe it gets a lot of things right. Certainly nothing could be much worse than MFC.

      So, I hate neither Microsoft's people nor their technology.

      What I do object to is their abusive business practices and disregard of standards, all orchestrated to lock users onto their platform. If they had 20% marketshare, I wouldn't care, but that clearly isn't the case.

      Is that irrational? I don't believe so. On the contrary, it strikes me as ignorant to embrace Microsoft without considering the broader impacts on the software industry and the technologies that move us forward.

      Yes, the Microsoft developer blogs are insightful. But they do not cure the disease from which Microsoft suffers.

  45. Can We Say FLAIMBATE??? by eno2001 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Wow. Talk about your flamebait. Posting a pro-MS story on /. is just asking for trouble. But posting it in apple.slashdot.org is really over the top.

    Now... addressing the , "is it OK to love Microsoft" question. It all depends on who you are and what your point of view of technology is. Let me explain:

    1. There are people who love certain company/technology just because they are told the technology is good. Non-technical Sun Microsystems fans tend to be an example of this. They are told that Sun Microsystems is a good company to buy stock in, so they assume that the products Sun produces are good. But this is not the case. Trust me, I've worked with a few really bad Sun products for the past five years and I welcomed HP-UX with open arms where support and reliability are concerned.

    2. There are people who love a technology because of it's status symbol ranking. Notable in this arena is Apple. Apple produces decent products, to be sure. But they are extremely expensive for what they are. They've been making a break with this as of late, so this isn't the ideal example, but there are plenty of products out there that fall into this realm. Think Adobe Photoshop vs. everyone else. Depending on your needs, Adobe Photoshop might be financial overkill. In many cases Paint Shop Pro or even GIMP might be enough. Especially where you don't need professional print features. But there are people out there who won't touch anything but Adobe Photoshop even to the extent of pirating it.

    3. There are the people who actually know technology well. They might be programmers or engineers. To them, there are two possible divisions. The first one are the people who came up with the technology first. I know quite a few people who worship the DEC Alpha. Even to the extent of passing around unsubstantiated rumours that Itanium 2 is really a DEC Alpha in disguise. They hate everything else that has come along since the Alpha because their battle cry is that they had 64-bit RISC processing back in 1992.

    4. The second group are those who know even more about technology than the people in example 3 above. These people usually have a really good clue about what constitutes good technology. They've usually been around a long time and have seen fads come, go and return as "new" again. They usually quitely shake their heads and take the more pragmatic view of choosing the most well designed technology. (They tend to be OpenVMS and Unix users)

    5. Then there are the retarded suits who base what makes a technology company good on their stock portfolio. This group is the least well informed and are the most likely candidates to love Microsoft. When they get mailings from various tech companies, they'll ditch anything from smaller companies (even if the technology is superior to larger companies) and only go with big name brands. Dell, HP, Oracle, Sun, Microsoft, IBM, etc... To them, these are the only options. They even tend to eschew companies like Epson, Gateway, Corel, Redhat even though there might be some very good technology coming out of these companies.

    So, the question, "is it OK to love Microsoft" is really a non-starter. Security and reliability issues aside, Microsoft has done very little in the way of creating new and useful technologies. They just buy up technologies rather then developing them from the ground up. The company is not run by engineers, it's run by businessmen. The approach is to do just enough to make their technology usable, but not to make it superior. Where they want real performance is in their profits. And that is completely counter to excellent software engineering. For someone like me, I can't love a company that doesn't engineer things properly. Of all the companies I've had to deal with, DEC was probably THE best technology company out there with a real eye on great engineering. When they got taken over by Compaq, a good deal of that got shitcanned. When HP took over Compaq even more got given away, sold off and

    --
    -"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
    1. Re:Can We Say FLAIMBATE??? by payndz · · Score: 3, Funny
      But there are people out there who won't touch anything but Adobe Photoshop even to the extent of pirating it.

      Woah, wait - you mean there are people out there who've actually bought Photoshop? Next you'll be telling me that there are people who paid money for Word instead of just copying it from their machine at work!

      --
      You must think in Russian.
    2. Re:Can We Say FLAIMBATE??? by ciggieposeur · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't disagree with most of your post but this:

      As far as I know it takes a lot less time to become a good windows admin than a good unix one.

      I can pick up a book from 1992 about Unix administration and see that most of the material is still valid. /etc/passwd (and /etc/shadow) is where users are listed, I can delete them or change their names using 'deluser' or 'chfn', etc. After a couple days of tinkering, I got my first Linux system (Slackware circa 1994) up and running and was reasonably confident on security and what it was doing. Easy things: installing software, adding and deleting users, setting up network services, adding hard drives, writing shell/Perl scripts to automate unusual tasks.

      Now Windows. With each new release, the system settings have changed drastically. Setting up networking in Windows XP is not at all like Windows 95: the screens are different, the actual values are buried somewhere deep in the registry. When the system fails it provides almost no useable explanation. Network security is much harder to get right because so much more is exposed and so many broken applications expect to run as Administrator.

      I've been administering just my own desktop for the last six years and feel pretty confident about what's going on and why and that I haven't been rooted. I think to reach the same level of comfort with Windows would take at least 18 months of full-time work and probably most of an MCSE prep. My friends who went the Windows route have told me quite a few horror stories over the years of automating NT 4 and Win2k desktops and how even large organizations have to commit years more time to get the same results as their Unix groups.

      When I looked for a platform to get into 6 years ago, I took a lot of things into account. The main factor for me was this: Who will be giving me the best returns on my time investment? I decided to become a Microsoft platform developer, and I haven't been sorry.

      I used to be a Windows developer too, mostly VB/VBA but some Win32 C. I switched to Linux in 1999 because I was working with a lot of Unix web servers and haven't regretted it at all. The last three jobs I've been the only Unix developer on multi-platform projects and it's been a good niche. I force my colleagues to alter their designs in ways that Windows-only developers never think of (like 'preserve case in filenames'). Economically it's done well for me, I am currently finishing a project with an embedded PC/104 device that runs TinyLinux for scientific data collection.

      More personally, I feel like the code I write for myself really is free, that I can count on it being around and working when I someday retire and relax a bit. That's a really nice feeling for me, much like when I moved away from Turbo Pascal for DOS (which I knew would someday die out) to ANSI C back in 1993.

      Development is the name of the game.

      Exactly, as long as we remain employed and generally happy, who cares which system we use? Power to the developers! :)

  46. Yeah, sure by zlogic · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Because Netscape and Stacker are dead and forgotten and can't defend themselves. Sure, Microsoft has created the Internet Browser market: just look at the competition!
    I wonder how this guy can praise Windows for its ease-of use when you can't even connect a Windows Mobile 2003 Pocket PC to a Windows XP SP2 PC via bluetooth. If you ever make it work, Windows will automagically break everything apart.
    Or the need to reinstall the OS at least once a year just to ensure it's fresh and clean. Otherwise Windows with the help of third-party products will commit suicide, rendering the PC useless.
    I can write the list forever. When I get to use a Windows machine, I can't help the habit of opening another desktop. Or a proper file extension manager.
    Oh, and has this guy seen kernel modules like ATi's or nVidia's? Has he ever seen someone "apt-get install nvidia-glx"?

  47. Feed the trolls, tuppence a bag... by phozz+bare · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is an infalmmatory, trollish, childish article. It is not news. It rehashes tired old claims that have been dissected to bits in previous discussions here. The grammar is poor, the points are weak, the article is unconvincing.

    Now how the hell does this get to the front page of Slashdot?

    -phozz

  48. As a Windows programmer.... by TangoCharlie · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What a load of tosh! It would appear you get a
    story submitted on slashdoty now simply by stating
    an option which is controversial!

    What's next?
    "SCO's a really great company!"
    "Osama bid Laden's a really nice guy!"
    "The Twin Towers needed to be demolished!"
    "Windows Viruses are a good thing!"

    Anyway, as a Windows programmer... the reason why Microsoft should be hated is because:
    1) Microsoft's anti-competitive (illegal) practises.
    2) Windows over complicated and badly designed architecture(s).

    There's no doubt that Microsofts office suite is currently unriveled (Sorry OOo lovers!), but that's mainly becuase Micosoft have squashed all the opposition.

    P.S. I recently bought a Mac mini for my mother-in-law. Wow! What a really lovely little computer! And MacOS X is _really_ nice. I've just bought some books on programming Cocoa... just got to buy a Mac now :-) Lets see...

    --
    return 0; }
  49. Revisionism at work by WillAdams · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Where's one's sense of history and perspective?

    Berkeley Systems' GeoWorks was in many ways much nicer than Windows, ``run(ing) with a crispness Windows can only dream of on a 386'' (and was quite usable even on a lowly 8086).

    http://members.fortunecity.com/pcmuseum/geos.htm

    VisiOn was tracking quite nicely as well, but was undone by MS FUD.

    PenPoint was way cool as well.

    and of course, while MS was busy w/ Windows 3.1, NeXT had NeXTStep.

    William

    --
    Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
  50. Porting to Windows by benhocking · · Score: 2, Informative

    Turn off the compiled headers option, and watch out for "include" discrepancies in the header files you are using. For example, in some compilers might include , so when you are using functions from and you might mistakenly include only . This would then compile on the compiler you're used to, but would not compile on a different compiler. Neither compiler is broken in this scenario - it's your code that's broken.

    However, the compiled headers option in Visual Studio is a "bug", IMO.

    --
    Ben Hocking
    Need a professional organizer?
  51. Porting to Windows (boy, that was bad) by benhocking · · Score: 2, Informative
    That should have read:
    Turn off the compiled headers option, and watch out for "include" discrepancies in the header files you are using. For example, in some compilers <foo> might include <bar>, so when you are using functions from <foo> and <bar> you might mistakenly include only <foo>. This would then compile on the compiler you're used to, but would not compile on a different compiler. Neither compiler is broken in this scenario - it's your code that's broken.

    However, the compiled headers option in Visual Studio is a "bug", IMO.

    That'll teach me to use [Preview]. At least, until I forget again. :P

    --
    Ben Hocking
    Need a professional organizer?
  52. Re:Short sighted by rubycodez · · Score: 3, Insightful

    what a load of hooey, there's plenty of easy to use GUi based OS in the last 15 years that were superior in every way to windows and even easier to use. How many commercial desktop OS have you used besides Wnidows. OS/2 was superior. IRIX was superior. MacOS was superior. NextStep was superior. Microsoft OS (really glorified program loaders since a true Operating System fully manages the resources of the computer) are buggy, insecure, bloated, hard to use garbage in comparison, get on a REAL operating system sometime !

  53. Pioneers Get the arrows by goombah99 · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Pioneers get the Arrows, Settlers get the Land. Microsoft has always been a settler not a pioneer. Now one can lightly praise them for having to make a half dozen bioses, sound cards, video cards, keyboard types all work within their system. This is not a great feat these days. But back when, yeah it was an accomplishment.


    A good accomplisment? Probably not. Yeah it let in some innovation but not much. Mainly it sowed confusion and prevented the establishment of standards that would have moved the industry along faster. Where it did establish standards it mainly were undesirable ones. Witness all the legacy crap like parallel ports, old fashioned serial ports, and Bioses. How long did it take just to get something sensible like USB to be implemented?



    On the other hand apple was a pioneer, though not always the inventor of PC methods. First (working practical) use of dynamic memory. First widepread use of memory mapped video (yes we have gone back to graphics cards but for anyone who used CGA you now what I mean), first integration of post script, First affordable Graphical user interface, first affordable mouse system, cut and paste between applications, Firewire, first consumer freindly unix desktop. first extensible files system (HFS+), metadata in file system, long liberal file names, Application oriented message passing scripting language (apple script). Self discovering local networks (first appletalk, now bonjour) If we include NeXT then we can include an OS based on Object oriented programming, Display postscript, First use of optical drives...,

    Pioneering, but not settling. Not always inventing but perfrecting. They drove innovation by adopting it early and creating needs for it. Look at the first affordable desktop publishing. That required a Gui, and the ability to edit graphics as objects, and thus a mouse.

    Microsoft...hmmm what can we say... they did settle the land and run on cheap hardware. Of course Cheap is why it was also so shitty. Macs were all configured at a high level. You didnlt need a pile of add on cards or figure out the interrupts and ports the card conflicts created. When you did need cards they were autoconfigured by the OS. macs had true plug and play from the day the mac II came out. Windows never really mastered plug and play till the PXI bus.

    Linux on the other hand plays to a different market. Wheras macs were at the maximally configured end of the spectrum. linux allowed you to diassemble everything and configure it exactly how you wanted. Not a shrink wrapped solution like widows that tried to do it for you and consequently invented horrors like the registrtry, incompatible DLLs, and resource conflicts. Instead Linux is a tinkerer's toychest. Of course that's why it comes in third for desktop and ease of use. But it's also starting to become an innovator in software ideas as more tinkerers get linked together.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    1. Re:Pioneers Get the arrows by Lussarn · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Apple can move fast and change directions faster because they don't have an installed base that would hate them because they twist and turn. In PC land this can't happen because too much money is already invested in hardware and software. What do you think would happen to the world economy if Microsoft only would release longhorn for PPC?

      No, for the most part the PC isn't the early adopter but it does save lots and lots of money even if the system as a whole isn't as clean as Macintosh.

      Don't you think MS and everybody else would have liked to change the 8.3 filenames faster then what was happening. It couldn't be done becuase there was millions of programs people relied upon that wouldn't handle the change. Apple whipes the slate clean from time to time and start over. That wouldn't be possible if Apple had 95% of the market insted of 3%.

    2. Re:Pioneers Get the arrows by BlueStraggler · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Microsoft...hmmm what can we say... they did settle the land and run on cheap hardware.

      Er, not really. Microsoft ran on IBM hardware, which was not cheap. You can thank Compaq and people like Albert Clark for commoditizing the PC, not Microsoft. Microsoft got lucky in that they were the default OS on expensive hardware at the time it got commoditized by other innovators.

  54. what Macs are good for by falconwolf · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Mac's are only good for video editing, music editing, graphic's and i think thats pretty much it.

    This is a big misconception many people have about Macs, Mac are for more than just these. Macs can pretty much do everything Windows are tasked for. There may be specific apps that are only ported to Windows but more than likely there's a Mac app that can do the same or similar things. Database, there are dbs for Macs, same thing with wordprocessing and spreadsheets. Afterall Microsoft has MS Office for Macs, Office 2004 for Mac - Professional Edition. Financial and accounting software, there's Quicken 2006 for Mac. And not only can you run Mac software on a Mac but you can also install and run Windows and Windows software as well. By using virtual machines such as Virtual PC, the one below comes with Windows XP Home, Macs can run more software than any other computer. Virtual PC for Mac Version 7 - Windows XP Home Edition It may run as slow as molasses but it can run them. Try that on a PC.

    Falcon

    Written on an HP PC running Windows ME.
  55. AdWords Knows all by sysadmn · · Score: 3, Funny

    I find it oddly appropriate that the ads served up by Google for the second page were for Anti-psychotic drug ambulance chasers.
    Even Google could detect that Dubay's meds aren't working.

    --
    Envy my 5 digit Slashdot User ID!
  56. Re:Short sighted by jedidiah · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Nope. IBM's negligence allowed the likes of Phoenix and Compaq to make the PC a "standard platform".

    Without Microsoft, the same thing would have happened via Apple, Atari, Commodore or someone else either through a primary platform or through cloning one.

    Microsoft actually stunted the saturation of the home computing market by supporting the dominance of a dull, overpriced "business only" machine.

    It took the PC a good 10 years to catch up to the basic standard features of a 1985 era non-PC home computer. This includes the GUI.

    --
    A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  57. Re:"Is It Wrong to Love Microsoft?" by theantipop · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Amen, brother. I share your feelings about Microsoft and Windows both. I have come to realize through a fair amount of experience with Linux and Mac OSX that each is good at its own thing.

    In my take, Linux is good for running a dedicated process. If I were to set up a web/database/mail whatever server, Linux is my first choice. If I want to browse the web and fire up office apps, I would look toward using a Mac. But for workstation-level general computing (for me, video/audio conversions, Photo creation/editing, gaming) Windows it the king. None of these OSes are perfect. I have a lot of trouble memorizing useful shell commands in Linux and that makes daily use a hassle. If I only had a Mac I'd be terribly frustrated by my lack of software options (ok, ok, I'm mostly talking about gaming here). Windows is the target of nearly every attack on the web and requires extra care to use safely.

    If people would quit arguing over one general point, namely which OS is "best", we could all realize they are tailored at different uses and get on with our lives.

  58. Re:"Is It Wrong to Love Microsoft?" by Chuckaluphagus · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'l agree with you on your first point: I don't trust Microsoft as a company, I think that its policies have been illegal and unethical in the past and, probably, still are right now. It is, of course, a gigantic corporation; it's interests are in making money, not in making the world a better place or even making my life easier. I cast a skeptical eye on just about anything they do because my interests and theirs aren't likely to be aligned.

    However, I also use Windows 2000 and am reasonably happy with it. It's stable to the point where my uptime is easily measured in months (and reboots only really happen when I decide to install some new graphics card drivers or new hardware), it runs just about everything I need, and it works well on computers ranging from six or seven years old to brand new. It's a good product for my purposes (PVR, games, Internet).

    The reason I use Linux as well is that Linux gives me a much greater degree of transparency in what's going on behind the curtain; I can use it both as a productive working environment and to tinker with settings and configuration files to my heart's content. Linux offers a greater degree of freedom in allowing me to use a computer as I want.

  59. What has Microsoft given us? by QuietLagoon · · Score: 4, Interesting
    1) the illegal leveraging of a monopoly that has stifled innovation.

    2) the lowering of expectations for the reliability of computers.

  60. Something most don't consider... by Sirwar · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Hardware compatability.

    How many different kinds of hardware can Windows plug and play these days? How many different chipsets?

    Sure, its just drivers..but the ability to run out of the box without issue for millions of people with vastly different configurations, I feel, is a very strong aspect of MS Windows and something no other OS can claim.

  61. 8.3 by goombah99 · · Score: 4, Informative
    "Don't you think MS and everybody else would have liked to change the 8.3 filenames faster then what was happening."

    put down the crack pipe and step away from the keyboard. Are you kidding? Apple had long filenames on Windows disks long before Windows 95 did. How did they manage that? It was pretty easy, and in fact the same way windows 95 later copied. they just wrapped the old 8.3 names with a layer that looked up the short name as was actually stored on the DOS disk.

    What do you think would happen to the world economy if Microsoft only would release longhorn for PPC?

    Uh dude, apple has switched many times and many processors and never left their currentusers behind. I was playing crystal quest, a game from the mid 90's on my OSX computer, just yesterday. When apple switched to intel they are still going to be compiling apps for my present computer.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    1. Re:8.3 by rbanffy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No. Not really. Apple had long (33 chars) file names in the Apple II since its earliest days, but not in MS-DOS floppies. ProDOS filenames were shorter, IIRC.

      It was not until the first SuperDrive (the manual insertion 3.5" floppy, not the DVD writer) that Apples started reading MS-DOS disks and until MacOS 8 or 9, no Apple OS would see long file names in FAT floppies unless while using a third-party tool.

  62. Is it wrong to love Microsoft? by jayloden · · Score: 2, Funny

    Depends...is it tough love?

  63. Evidently not by Shaper_pmp · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'd say this guy is merely a pro-MS zealot, exactly like the anti-MS zealots here on Slashdot that he bashes.

    Let's look at the article piece by piece:

    Recap on alternative/joke names for MS.

    States explicitely that "I love Microsoft. Absolutely adore it and what's more, I hate Linux. I think it's the most over rated piece of software ever built and survives simply out of spite and not because it is terribly good at doing something because it is not!". He's clearly already marked out his opinion as essentially content-less uninformed flaming, exactly what he complains about when it happen to MS.

    Calls Windows a "pioneering effort". Now, I'm no Linux or Mac fanboy, but I was under the distinct impression that Windows had very little innovation compared to the Mac. IIRC various Microsofties have even admitted as much before, albeit off the record.

    Regurgitates the long-disproven "popularity => more successful breakins" argument. More popularity equals more cracking attempts, I'll grant you, but that's not the same as successful security breaches. And anyway, haven't we already disproven this whole argument?

    "Considering the fact that everyone who knows how to write two bits of code dreams of hitting windows with a virus, the guys at the "Redmond Giant" are doing a spectacular job."

    Bwaaaaahahahahahaaaaaa! As everyone knows, the two main groups who write viruses are security professionals offering a "proof of concept", and script kiddies. The overwhelming majority of coders/developers have never written (or certainly released) a virus in their lives.

    In addition, given it's mostly VBScript kiddies - who are almost universally poor programmers - the runaway success of most Windows viruses is even more damning.

    "XP is such a joy when it comes to simply connecting a device and watching the pretty little bubble detecting it and saying "its installed and ready for use" makes the slightly high price absolutely worth it."

    Dunno what version of windows he's using, and not to deny Windows has got better over the years, but I still have plenty of issues even these days with unrecognised hardware, pieces of hardware detected twice, crashes due to dodgy device drivers, etc.

    "In Linux, you have to recompile a kernel if you want to so much as change your modem!"

    Now, I'm not that au fait with the low-level Windows or Linux processes, but I understood that they both used monolithic kernels (ie, drivers not in userland). Surely this means that Windows also has to "recompile" the kernel when the device drivers change? If so it might be hidden behind a pretty user-interface, but it's the same damn architecture and the same design problem.

    Tackles the anti-trust cases. Totally ignores Microsoft's documented illegal behaviour and instead blames it on jealousy from competitors. Riiiiiight...

    Suggests Sun and Oracle's business models are based around sueing Microsoft. Is he confusing "Sun" with (the Microsoft-backed) SCO, and "Microsoft" with Linux?

    He's actually suggesting these companies sue Microsoft because they see it as an easy revenue-earner, rather than a highly risky attempt at redress against the richest organisation (with the most expensive and persuasive legal team) in the world. Mind-boggling.

    "Microsoft made some products which it would like to ship together with its OS, no where in the EULA does it say that "you are not authorized to install other software" If Mr. John Doe thinks media player is the worst piece of software he has ever used, he is free to go and download Winamp or Musicmatch Jukebox (neither of these offer free full versions)."

    Yeah, they don't write it into the EULA where anyone could see it, but you don't need to do that when you've got the CEO of Dell's balls in your office drawer. It's harder to prove, and leaves less obvious marks for the next lawsuit.

    Oh, and the key thi

    --
    Everything in moderation, including moderation itself
  64. Why the change? by NickFortune · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Lots of things. Win95 is where I presonally mark the change/ it was a marketing lead rollout that persuaded lots of people to shell out money for an OS that would not run well on their current machines, and that even if it did, their current apps would run slower. Up until that point I'd though MS was about the best solution to the problem.


    W95 was also the debut of the Registry with all it's attendant obfuscations and encrypted entries. No more of this human readable .ini file malarkey. We'll have a binary format that can only be read using our software.


    Then there were the help files. I taught myself how to use Win3.11 to quite a high level purely from the bundled helpfiles. W95 seemed a lot less helpful. However I think the nadair was reached with WinME when I was tryng to troubleshoot my wife's PC and suddenly though "all these halp files are, are a lit of reason's why the problem is not MS's fault".


    Then there was Stacker - where MS bough out just enough of the company to squash the product. Everyone has their favourite MS unfair competition story - that was the one that made me realise these guys were not playng fair


    And there was the chap on USENET - demon.local - who posted a message subject "Bastards! Bastards! Bastards!". Apparently he'd found a bug in 95, reported it and was told he'd be given 30 days free credit while they looked into it. He was outraged - he spent his own valuable time tracking down a bug for Microsoft to improve their product, and in return they threatened to charge him money if they couldn't replicate it in 30 days. How to alienate your techically adept userbase in one easy lesson...


    The final straw for me, was finding that getting a copy of office for my dad's new XP machine doubled the cost of the computer (which we'd already bought) and that we'd need a new printer and scanner. None of which was advertised, of course.


    These are some of the landmarks on the journey from me as a MS enthusiast c.1990 to a Linux evangelist in 2005. It's not that I woke up one day and thought "linux looks cool", MS had to work long and hard before I started to think of them as the enemy.


    There's a line, arguably a subtle one, between wrtiting novice-friendly software and treating your users as idiots. Further on in the same directin there's another one markign the start of treating the user with contempt. As far as I'm concerned, MS crossed first one, then the other, and have not so much as looked over their shoulder the whole time...

    --
    Don't let THEM immanentize the Eschaton!
  65. Re:If it works for you... by ssj_195 · · Score: 2, Interesting
    This is actually almost exactly the tack I take nowadays when discussing Linux, due largely to two points:

    a) If you over-sell Linux and imply (as some people had done to me) that it can do damn-near everything Windows can do, and is better in virtually every way, you are setting them up for a disappointment that will lead to such a bitter backlash that they will probably actively despise Linux for a long period of time. This is what happened to me a couple of years ago - people sold Linux to me as if it were the Second Coming, and when I tried it the gulf between expectation and reality made me turn against big time. Thankfully I tried it again (pretty much by force of circumstance, rather than choice; as far as I had been concerned, based on my initial disappointment, I was done with it forever) and saw the light a year or so later :)

    b) A measured, educated discussion of its good and bad points will sway people far more, especially if you concentrate on the bad points. I've seen this happen time and time again, and the best theory I can come up with is that, if the person respects your judgement and doesn't just think you are an idiot zealot (the "measured, educated discussion" can help dispell this notion :)), then listing a bunch of its flaws but still continuing to use it will make people curious about the good qualities that keep you using it, and make them want to try it themselves. I suppose it's like a weird kind of reverse-psychology, but that doesn't quite hit the nail on the head, I don't think.

  66. Why do you trust...? by MegaFur · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why do you trust our corporate masters?

    To maintain that monopoly your company will have to lock out potential competitors with patents, laws, or failing all that good ol' threats and intimidation.

    Your point, "there's nothing wrong with a monopoly" strikes me as naive. Capitalism, like a game or sport, only has a chance of half-way working when there's a somewhat level playing field. Monopolies are broken like the Black Lotus and Mox cards in Magic the Gathering, and they must be regulated as such. Please go crack open a history book and look up trust busting.

    Sometimes the government will allow a monopoly to continue to exist provided the company is willing to allow itself to be regulated by the government. It's my understand that this is how Southwestern Bell worked at one time.

    --
    Furry cows moo and decompress.
    1. Re:Why do you trust...? by Joehonkie · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Way to totally ignore what he said. There is nothing inherently illegal about having a monopoly. If you really have the best product and everyone buys it, that's not something you can be held responsible for.

      All of those things you mentioned are illegal methods of maintaining a monopoly, which is what MS should have gone under for.

    2. Re:Why do you trust...? by garett_spencley · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Your point, "there's nothing wrong with a monopoly" strikes me as naive.

      I never said there's nothing wrong.. I said there's nothing illegal about a monopoly.

      However, your post strikes me as the same old 'anti-corporate anything' sentiment that's just all too common on /.

      If a company abuses it's powers, harms consumers, destroys potential competition etc. then of course there is something wrong that. But to dismiss ALL companies or corporate entities as being malicious is also naive. Of course, it's not hard to make that assumption based on the fact that we constantly hear about MS, Intel, Enron, Martha Stewart etc. But there's even a few examples of the opposite that we hear about on /. all the time too ... Google, AMD, Apple * etc.

      Just because a company is profit-driven or has a monopoly doesn't automatically make it evil. A companies actions are what it should be judged on, not it's position in the market.

      * P.S - In case anyone misinterprets my examples above.. I'm not trying to claim that those companies have monopolies .. just that they don't resort to illegal or unethical practices to advance their positions.

  67. People don't hate MS because it's MS ... by SgtChaireBourne · · Score: 3, Insightful
    But, to continue the car analogy, one could say Windows is like the Model T of operating systems. Not the best, but the first one that started making it feasible to get one in everybody's house.
    It's not just the poor quality of it's antiquated software that puts people on edge about Microsoft. It's been the king of predatory marketing supplemented by illegal and unethical maneuvers. In essence, it's business model since the 80's has been to leverage the desktop monopoly handed to it by IBM.

    A timely case in point is how it broke into and gained dominance in the web browser market: it is a fact well documented in court records that this was purely because of being able to leverage it's desktop monopoly into control of the newly established web browser market. Yeah, both MSIE and Netscape sucked, but MSIE wouldn't have gone anywhere without the desktop monopoly and, oh yeah, ripping code from Mosaic.

    Then there has been the strong arm tactics it has used, and still uses, with OEMs and partners. BeOS fell to that one. It won the right to distribution, but MS ensured that even when it came on OEM machines, it was not in the boot loader.

    There has been sabotage. The AARD code against DR-DOS was one, but broken implementations of HTTP, TCP/IP and Kerberos make problems, too.

    There have been smear campaigns spreading misinformation about competitors and their products (esp. Novel Netware) MS has also used its partner the BSA to raid businesses using competing products and negotiate contracts with an MS-only infrastructure in their place. There have been forged video evidence in US courts, but no charges of perjury. There were cases where the executives either perjured themselves or committed treason, no middle ground: they did this by swearing in court that their products were so shoddy that national security would be threatened by releasing the source code, yet they turned around and showed the source code to China.

    Currently, there are problems with MS trying to use the WMA and WMP formats to break into the audio and video market. The EU has found them guilty of illegal, anti-competitive behaviour, but has been waffling on actually enforcing any punishment.

    Currently, the licenses for 2000 SP3, XP SP 2 and later even give MS administrative rights to the machine. That's a back door by another name.

    The list of ethical / legal problems could go on for pages. Why is Slashdot suddenly pushing so much stuff from MS apologists? How about more article about companies with a future, like Opera, Apple, IBM, etc. Or tools like OpenOffice, or codecs like Vorbis, Dirac, or Theora, which anyone could use. Shoot, such a big deal was made about Greasemonkey having some minor flaws, yet nothing has been said about greasemonkey being patched. How about an article on that and a moratorium on doing marketing for MS?

    --
    Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
    1. Re:People don't hate MS because it's MS ... by snorklewacker · · Score: 3, Interesting

      A timely case in point is how it broke into and gained dominance in the web browser market: it is a fact well documented in court records that this was purely because of being able to leverage it's desktop monopoly into control of the newly established web browser market. Yeah, both MSIE and Netscape sucked, but MSIE wouldn't have gone anywhere without the desktop monopoly and, oh yeah, ripping code from Mosaic.

      There was a TCP/IP stack market before Microsoft included one with the OS. Are they also to blame for the destruction of the TCP/IP stack market? Yes, the strongarm tactics they used on OEMs to kill the nascent market were unethical and quite probably illegal, but I hardly considered the allegations of mere "bundling" to have merit then, and certainly not now.

      Microsoft did not "rip code from mosaic". They bought it outright from Spyglass.

      Currently, the licenses for 2000 SP3, XP SP 2 and later even give MS administrative rights to the machine.

      I'll admit to not having read the whole license. Could you quote the relevant parts?

      --
      I am no longer wasting my time with slashdot
    2. Re:People don't hate MS because it's MS ... by killjoe · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "Microsoft did not "rip code from mosaic". They bought it outright from Spyglass."

      Actually they fucked spyglass to get it. They promised them a percent of every IE sold then they gave the thing away. Poor spyglass, next time get better lawyers when signing a deal with the devil.

      --
      evil is as evil does
  68. They could code by gilesjuk · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Bill Gates was a good coder, as were many of the early Microsoft coders. Look at analysis of Altair BASIC and see how they used all kinds of optimisation tricks to get as much as possible into the limited RAM of the Altair.

    This is why Microsoft became a bit of an expert on BASIC. Of course as soon as they expanded the software declined in quality and the cheese factor increased.

    Can't find the original analysis, but there's an article here:

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/05/15/could_bill _gates_write_code/

    1. Re:They could code by badfish99 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But the criteria for what makes a good coder have changed over the years. Back then, you were good if you could squeeze lots of features into limited memory. Now, that would be regarded as bad code, because it is unmaintainable. Good code now is code that is secure and robust. But Microsoft are still going for "as many features as possible" instead.

  69. Tough love by Sgt+Spleen · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's not wrong to love an abusive spouse but that doesn't mean you shouldn't leave them for beating you up.

  70. EDITORS: Please read by HogynCymraeg · · Score: 2, Funny

    Can we update slashcode so that we can rate an article? I'd love to mod this article +5 Funny.

    Thanks.

  71. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  72. It's not MAC! by Cybrex · · Score: 2

    For reasons already covered to death in other comments, the article is clearly written by either an idiot, a Microsoft shill, or both.

    One of my pet peeves is people referring to Apple as "MAC". This is wrong for two reasons.

    1) Apple is the company. Macs are the computers they make.

    2) "Mac" is the short form of "Macintosh". "MAC" is an acronym for "Media Access Control", and refers to the unique identifier on NICs.
    [/soapbox]

    -Cybrex

    --
    Boundless Expansion, Self-Transformation, Dynamic Optimism, Intelligent Technology, Spontaneous Order- BEST DO IT SO!
  73. Get your facts straight by FrkyD · · Score: 2, Informative
    "...Mac OS was a lot prettier but then it cost the moon and the stars along with both your arms and legs."

    In 1983-84 the list price for an IBM XT was $7,495. The initial price of the first Macintosh was $2,499.
    The IBM AT which was also released in 1984 retailed at $4,000.
    The Mac 512 was then released for something over $3000 but with twice the memory of the AT. The Mac Plus was later released back at the $2500 price point.

    Even in 1987 the high end macs continued to be a deal compared to other name brand PC's. To quote Dan Knight:

    "The Compaq Deskpro 386 had been introduced six months earlier at US$7,900 with 1 MB of RAM, a 40 MB hard drive, and a monitor. The Mac II retailed at US$5,500 with 1 MB of RAM and a 40 MG hard drive. Adding an 8-bit video card, color display, and keyboard (not included with the CPU!) brought the package to around US$7,000."

    You can read the rest of his article about the Mac-PC price relation at LowEndMac As far as I can tell, Microsoft had absolutely NOTHING to do with the eventual affordability of PC clones. The price dumping was due entirely to IBM's failure to patent their architecture, thus allowing anyone and their dog to carve out their own share of IBM's retail profit margin.
  74. the most hated company in the history of business? by managerialslime · · Score: 2, Insightful
    "Microsoft is perhaps the most hated company in the history of business."

    Are you kidding?

    Survey the thousands upon thousands of citizens of India who either lost loved ones or are still living with the aftermath of Bhopal about what they think of Union Carbide.

    Survey the thousands of people whose retirement was wiped out by the burnouts of Enron about how their medical bills may drive them into poverty.

    Survey environmentalists around the planet about what they think of the parent company of the Exxon Valdez (and countless LARGER accidents" and the damage done to the environment.

    The most hated? Maybe the company most expected to abuse their leadership position in the industry, but the most hated?

    Maybe by many vocal slashdotters, but Microsoft doesn't hold a candle to how other companies have (intentionally or not) caused millions of people around the world to associate hate with a corporate entity.

    Microsoft has done many baaaad things. But when it comes to causing environmental damage, wiping out people's savings, or just plain killing innocent people, they are just plain amateurs.

    methinks thou just wants another reason to trash them

    --
    Live Long and Prosper - Thanks Leonard. You are missed.
  75. The Original IBM PC's had THREE OSes! by mykepredko · · Score: 2, Informative

    What they were exceedingly good at is signing a contract with IBM that said all PCs would have their operating system on it. As the PC marketplace grew, it gave them a pretty much locked in revenue stream.

    I would take issue with this statement; when the PC first came out there were three operating systems available for it (PC/MS-DOS, CPM-86 and UCSD). IBM wanted the marketplace to decide which was the best one. Microsoft did not have any kind of leg up with the other two competitors initially, all three were established software vendors.

    Microsoft very quickly established itself as the most popular OS for the PC (I will refrain from saying "best") and went on from there.

    myke

  76. Would i listen to someone... by Komarosu · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Do i really care for someone who can't notice the diffrence between Mac and MAC?

    The remaining being divided between Linux, MAC etc. now lets say MAC has 1 percent...

    Also another point:

    The question is why do they? I love Microsoft. Absolutely adore it and what's more, I hate Linux. I think it's the most over rated piece of software ever built and survives simply out of spite and not because it is terribly good at doing something because it is not!

    The guy obviously loves GUI, and his WindowBlinds themes... fine Linux desktop enviroments are not up to play with the big boys yet, no reason to dismiss a whole OS on a few faults when your never going to come into contact with the real power. Its like saying AS/400 is crap at running games... therefore its crap full stop.

    --

    "What do you mean you have no ice? Do you expect me to drink this coffee hot?" - Random Customer, Clerks
    1. Re:Would i listen to someone... by WhiteWolf666 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I dunno about him, but my GUI is there. Suse 9.3, KDE 3.4, and an Nvidia graphics card.

      I haven't seen a Windows user who *doesn't* drool over my keyboard.

      Things blissfully fade in and out, a soothing animated xscreensaver is my desktop background, my window title bar and border are transparent (crystal theme (check out crystalgl and oceangl, they are stunning)). Too bad you can't run crystal gl or ocean gl with kompmgr; I'm sure that will be fixed in the future. (crystal GL, btw, does the Vista-like translucency of window borders. 1.5 years ago. )

      Font rendering on my system blows away anything else, and I'm talking about graphics professionals running Windows and Mac OS X doing comparisons.

      Not too mention the oohs and ahhs I hear about Project Looking Glass. It'll be fun when that's avaliable as a Window Manager for distributions.

      KDE amazes most people. Kparts, all the nifty little protocols (like fish://, camera://, and ipod://), native output to PDF for an application (like OS X). Kaffeine, which plays any format under the sun.

      My girlfriend saw the automatic downloading of lyrics and wikipedia entries in amarok, and decided she wanted this 'KDE' thing.

      Not to mention non-KDE things that KDE builds on. Samba integration is beautiful. CUPS autodetection of network printers makes most Windows people drop their jaws in shock.

      "What? You mean I can go back and forth between offices, and it only shows me the working printers I have avaliable? Where do I get the drivers?"

      The *only* difficulty I have on my system is Windows applications. Wine just isn't all the way there yet. Other than that, everything, and I mean everything, works beautifully. I have to spend a lot of time explaining that Linux has problems with Windows applications only, and that Windows application performance is not indicative of Linux app performance.

      --
      WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell
  77. Steve Jobs said it best by UnknowingFool · · Score: 2, Informative
    In a documentary by Robert Cringley called Triumph of the Nerds:
    The only problem with Microsoft is they just have no taste, they have absolutely no taste, and what that means is - I don't mean that in a small way I mean that in a big way. In the sense that they they don't think of original ideas and they don't bring much culture into their product and you say why is that important. Well, you know proportionally spaced fonts come from type setting and beautiful books; that's where one gets the idea. If it weren't for the Mac they would never have that in their products and so I guess I am saddened, not by Microsoft's success - I have no problem with their success, they've earned their success for the most part. I have a problem with the fact that they just make really third rate products.

    --
    Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  78. tfa- plug and play by micromuncher · · Score: 2, Informative

    Buddy is really happy about XP's PNP automatically detecting and installing drivers... as if it is some major innovation.

    Well, let's see, ADB, SCSI, FireWire... for the most part even ancient Macs you could plug in devices and they just worked.

    And don't forget seamless networking. In the 80s over LocalTalk/AppleTalk, we were plugging in computers, printers, and such and they just worked. And we were playing network games too... I fondly remember playing SpacewardHo with 6 buddies in my backyard.

    --
    /\/\icro/\/\uncher
  79. Is it wrong to love extortionists? by NatteringNabob · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Sure, occasionally they break a few kneecaps, and torch a few buildings, but most of them are probably real good to their faimlies, and to winows and orphans, even the ones that they helped create. Your honest, local, neighborhood business man is highly over rated anyway, and mostly exists to spite the mega corporations.

  80. The Megahertz Myth. by Grendel+Drago · · Score: 2, Informative

    Well, then again, you might want to consider that a 1.7GHz Pentium M, for a lot of tasks, is faster than a 3GHz Pentium 4. Not that this has anything to do with the Steve's Reality Distortion Field, but his claims were at least plausible, if not correct.

    --grendel drago

    --
    Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
  81. people love their tools by planetfinder · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Its a survival response I guess. I've loved every computer that I've used as a desktop except for my Windows computers.

    Some of my Windows computers were adequate but I just never could warm up to them. Unlike some of my other machines the passion of Microsoft craftsmen never seems to shine through. Maybe they don't care enough or maybe their designs are too constrained by the requirments for incremental increases in market control with each new version. In any case, by and large I find their products to be of low quality and buggy-geek-feature-laden compared to the competition in categories where competition still exists. Unfortunately they produce the operating system and every product that runs on that operating system suffers from their lack of vision and passion and their drive to incrementally increase their control of the market with each new release. The only time they care about quality is when there is a threat of revenue loss or a reduced rate of growth.

    I love computers and computing technology. Its been my job, my hobby and my passion for many years now and when possible, I buy machines and software from people whose similar disposition shines forth in their quality products.

    I don't believe that Microsoft leadership is creative, visionary or passionate about their products in anything remotely like a constructive way. Even their passion is a marketing ploy. As soon as the competition in a product area goes away they no longer have direction (nothing to copy) in the evolution of their product and they lose the incentive to make it better and it shows. Microsoft only makes pretty good products in an area until the competition is dead and then the quality sinks and the hostage users pay and come to love their abusive master and their "quality" products.

    After Microsoft's external competition dies in a category the only competition left for their product comes from the previous version of their own product. This eliminates any incentive for support and backward compatibility. Ironically compatibility remains the main selling point of Windows systems.

    I have nothing against Microsoft and people who love them for whatever reason as long as they don't systematically obliterate my access and option to use quality products crafted by people who give a darn. I'd willingly pay Microsoft for great products if I ever thought that they produced one. As things stand I am essentially forced to buy and use their products in a way that is shutting the door on quality competition. It isn't right.

  82. Re:A calm and constructive response (formatted) by DevanJedi · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This is my constructive response to your column at CoolTechZone on the 5th of August titled "Is it Wrong to Love Microsoft?" To give you a little perspective, I have a WindowsXP desktop dual booted with Fedora Core 4 Linux, Windows XP Professional laptop, and Mac Powerbook at home and so have sufficient experience with all of them.

    >>"Is it wrong to love Microsoft?"

    First of all, the short answer is- no, it isn't wrong.

    >>"The question is why do they? I love Microsoft. Absolutely adore it and what's more, I hate Linux. I think it's the most over rated piece of software ever built and survives simply out of spite and not because it is terribly good at doing something because it is not!"

    I am curious what your experience with Linux is. I agree that Linux is not for everyone, but for a developer, researcher, network manager or someone looking to build their own systems there is nothing like it. Considering the fact that you have the source to do what you choose with makes it a tremendous platform. People have ported it to the Xbox, powerpcs, palms, ipods and all kinds of other antique devices and it still works the same. There is even a version (called busybox) that is under 1Mb and can be carried on a floppy. It is this flexibility and extensibility that people love.

    >>"It has given us Windows, sure, it was buggy earlier and a lot of things didn't work like they were supposed to (plug and play springs to mind) but it was a pioneering effort."

    Not really.

    >>"I understand the criticisms about the security of the software, the critical flaws and what not but again, we must look at things in the proper perspective. More than 95 pecent computers in the world use one form of Windows OS or another. The remaining being divided between Linux, MAC etc. now lets say MAC has 1 percent, does it make sense for a hacker to create a virus that can at best infect just 1 percent of the computers in the world? It doesn't, therefore you don't have as
    many security threats for other software as most of the people developing Linux probably sit at night writing up malicious code for windows!"

    What you say is true- but you require some perspective as well. There are some basic security decisions that Windows has made that people
    disagree with, the most important of which is that every user and process my default runs as an administrator. For the average, home
    user this is dangerous. Otherwise, your point on security is valid.

    >>"Considering the fact that everyone who knows how to write two bits of code dreams of hitting windows with a virus, the guys at the "Redmond Giant" are doing a spectacular job."

    Hmm... I wonder why everyone who knows programming wants to his Windows with a virus? Is it because people who program prefer other platforms?

    >>"XP is such a joy when it comes to simply connecting a device and watching the pretty little bubble detecting it and saying "its installed and ready for use" makes the slightly high price absolutely worth it."

    I agree- it is one of the strengths of Windows. But can you install Windows on a powerpc, or a Sparcs, or an Xbox or ANY other hardware of
    your choice? You can with Linux, though not as easily. I'm just demonstrating why people like other OSes.

    >>"In Linux, you have to recompile a kernel if you want to so much as change your modem! Give me a break guys, Linux is light years behind
    Windows XP and I am sure it will be further back biting the dust when Longhorn (now Vista) comes out."

    >>Ummm, have you actually used Linux lately? I suggest you try out a user friendly version like Fedora Core and then rewrite your column.

    >>"This reminds me of the bundled issues with the antitrust lawsuits being slammed on it."

    Some, but not all, of the lawsuits are justified. Microsoft has been anti-competitive. Not many people dispute that- not even Microsoft,
    they settled in a lot of cases and agreed to future improvements in their behav

  83. Monty Python and the Jewish Zealots' rebellion by fetusbear · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I guess it's kind of like the Monty Python spoof of the Jewish Zealots' rebellion, as portrayed in _The Life of Brian_....

    zealot: "How _much_ do you hate the Romans?"
    Brian: (trying to gain approval) "A lot!"
    zealot: "Alright. You're in!"

    You have to hate Micro$oft in order to have credibility, because for anyone to understand computing (technology and/or culture) and like Micro$oft is, well... incredible!

  84. Mac OS over MS by sunflowrr · · Score: 2, Funny

    I would rather be a bloody stump with no legs and arms and happily be using my PowerMac than have to suffer thru endless crashes and bugs with MS Windows.

    --
    =^..^=
  85. Cost is MUCH more than initial outlay of cash by FFFish · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Sure, Mac OS was a lot prettier but then it cost the moon and the stars along with both your arms and legs.

    Macintosh cost more in initial cash outlay, but did it increase productivity?

    I think back over the endless days I've spent fixing Windows problems, the loss of data when Windows has bluescreened, the loss of billable time and the loss of my hair... ...and I think, hey, if MacOS puts an end to that sort of bullshit, I'm actually coming out far ahead of the game.

    The cost of an operating system and applications is one helluva lot more than merely the sticker price.

    --

    --
    Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
  86. OS cultures by Dracos · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I've posted this before, but this story makes it particularly apropos:

    • *nix has users
    • Apple has fanatics
    • Windows has victims

    Microsoft has Billions of dollars, and yet they can't deliver products that are well documented, well-architected, stable and secure? If they could do that, they might get more respect.

  87. no, it's not "wrong" by cahiha · · Score: 2, Funny

    Some guys love to get tied up, fscked, and flogged, and even pay for the privilege. We accept that, just like we accept Varun's love of Microsoft, which amounts pretty much to the same thing.

  88. my letter to author of article by yagu · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I love Microsoft. Absolutely adore it and what's more, I hate Linux. I think it's the most over rated piece of software ever built and survives simply out of spite and not because it is terribly good at doing something because it is not!

    I think that quote from your article says almost all. You adore Microsoft. Good for you. You hate [L]inux (it's not capitalized). Good for you. That's really about the only objective part of you article. You don't think linux is good at doing something? You're opinion... It's misguide at best, but it's really wrong. Did you know at Microsoft for the longest time their e-mail servers were Unix machines? That was because their e-mail applications weren't up to the task. This I know because I worked there. Haven't checked recently, so I don't know if they're still using unix for e-mail.

    Also, some of the world's largest, most complex, and savviest applications are running on linux platforms. Do you ever use Google? Google (last time I checked) is up over 40,000 linux servers running the show. Ever shop at Amazon? Amazon runs almost exclusively on linux and Solaris (Sun) boxes under the covers.

    This reminds me of the bundled issues with the antitrust lawsuits being slammed on it. It's just sad, unfair and uncompetitive. Basically what the stupid courts in Europe said was, hey, you're doing a great job, and you must pay for it! This coming from a bunch of people who couldn't even agree on a constitution!

    Sad, unfair and uncompetitive? Maybe you're only fifteen years old. If you were older and had any sense of history and knew what Microsoft has done in the past you'd understand better. Microsoft has gotten where it is, become what it is, with blatant disregard for fair and competitive business practices. (Not sure what "agreeing on a constitution" has to do with anything in your thesis.)

    Continue to love Microsoft, it's a warm fuzzy world from your view. You obviously are part of the target demographic.

    You're probably going to get hammered for your column. You deserve it.

  89. Crystal Quest by 5n3ak3rp1mp · · Score: 3, Informative

    Actually, Crystal Quest dates from the late 80's. In fact, it was the very first color Mac game, on the Mac II, in 1987. Yay, Casady & Greene.

    I know because baby, I WAS THERE!! (that game was great. and I've used macs since 12/84...)

  90. "File system tunneling" - wrong answer by Animats · · Score: 2, Informative
    That's so Microsoft. Add cruft to a bad design so it's sort of fixed.

    The right answer first appeared in Jerry Popek's UCLA Locus in the 1980s, and has been in some IBM UNIX systems since IBM bought the technology. It really ought to be in Linux.

    It works like this. When you open an existing file for writing, you actually start to write a new file. But unchanged blocks are shared, using a copy on write approach. If you close the file normally, the new file replaces the old file.

    If the program or system crashes, the old file remains intact and unchanged. So there's always a good copy of the file. No special action is required in the program to make this happen.

    The program can also call "commit", to force the new version to replace the old one immediately, or "revert", to roll the file back to the "old" state. But that's optional. A program might do this after finishing some transaction, for example.

    That's how to do it right.

  91. {evil mode=on} Excellent.. by Da+VinMan · · Score: 2, Funny

    I see my evil plan is working just fine.

    Everywhere I go, I recommend Microsoft's very latest offerings knowing full well that they are not ready for the light of day and that a feeling of dissatisfaction, no hatred, of Microsoft can only come of recommending a product which is so early in its life cycle, which only the technically savvy will bother to try at this early juncture anyway. At the same time, I leave bitter reminders everywhere of previous generations of products which were likewise wronged early in their lives by my overeager recommendations.

    Everywhere I go, I foment the dislike, the bitterness, and the fear of Microsoft's supposed dominion over us all. And I am served....

    How am I served? Am I served because only the most bright, the most sensitive, the most pure among the technical ranks will bother to care. I am served because they turn away in disgust and leave this market. I am served because the users ultimately don't care and continue using the products I nurture through my evil machinations.

    I am served because you are no longer here. I can now do with your users as I like. I can turn them to my ways, make them dependent, and continue to keep them for myself. For my customers. For my profit. For my entertainment.

    Run punk. Run.

    --
    Please mod this post only if you think others should/n't read this. I have enough ego^H^H^Hkarma. Thanks!
  92. PC = home built car - Mac = Factory built car by Kodack · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I use both a PC and a Mac. After some time with the Mac I could nail down the main difference in philosophy and user base between the two. PC's are like a home built car. You can buy pre-made kits but it's still a kit car. You can customize it out the wazoo to have something utterly unique and you can make it do what you want. Want a sport car, make it low and wide. Want an offroad car, make it big and beefy. The PC approach means high flexibility but some reliablilty issues and it means some parts don't always want to work together and when it breaks you fix it. Mac is more like a production car. Sure it's not going to beat a high performance kit car in price or in performance, but everything fits properly, all the pieces work together and offer you simplicity. You turn the key and it goes. It breaks, the dealer fixes it. But, it looks like every other car from that same model, has the same performance as anyone else who bought that model, the same factory colors etc. You sacrifice flexibility in the design and it takes more effort to customize it to your needs. Apples are great. You take it out of the box and turn it on and your done. Want to add an Apple upgrade? Just plug it in, your done. PC's are an open architecture with parts made everywhere. You get to pick and choose what you want but there is no garauntee that everything is going to work together. Some people want to just put the key in and go. Some people want to pick and choose. Different people, different philosophies. Both valid.

  93. Instability, the sad fact. by Meetch · · Score: 2, Insightful
    But I like windows. It rarely crashes...

    This is the most unfortunate aspect of operating system expectations to date. Barring a genuine hardware problem, all users should expect that their operating system will never crash.

    Now the vast majority is so well conditioned, that halving the frequency of crashes on their system is seen as a benefit, when they shouldn't have been allowed to happen in the first place.

    I've worked with someone who has high praise for SGI. I've not played with their OS myself, but from what I've heard they're a company that takes responsibility for it. As I understand it the bug policy is along the lines of "If your application can cause a problem with our OS, it's our fault, and we will fix it, at no cost to you." They believe in your right to trust that their OS is bullet-proof, providing of course that the hardware is maintained.

    When will Microsoft and other commercial vendors to offer that kind of stability? When can we expect a crash-free OS to be the norm rather than the exception?