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Google WiFi+VPN Confirmed
An anonymous reader writes "Google is actually (confirmed!) rolling out their wifi network, first in the San Francisco bay area (see the FAQ for details.) They are also including a Secure Access program for use in conjunction with this. So far, as per usual, it's in beta, and only for the San Fran bay area. Soon the entire US, perhaps??"
When I click the link. I'm in the UK.
Sindri Traustason.
can't wait for it to hit the east coast, however...
...because Plutonians are teh suck
Now just a redirect to the main site.
First the city, then the USA, and then: THE WORLD!
Muwahahahahahahahaha!
... using the google wifi access :)
Not surprisingly, it doesn't work unless you're in that area :)
Here is a link to a CNN article about it.
CNN broke the story as well, but it seems Google has quickly fixed all the links.
They are redirecting to the main google page, as is the base url of http://wifi.google.com/. It's not just slashdotting either, as these were redirecting before the article was available for comment.
Just go to the FAQ and click the link at the bottom...
Since the two links in the article don't seem to work at present, here's a link to a Reuters story for more information.. http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?t ype=topNews&storyID=2005-09-20T113746Z_01_HO038752 _RTRUKOC_0_UK-GOOGLE-WIFI.xml&archived=False
Andrew Lenahan http://www.starblind.com/
Someone doesn't realize how very large the US is.
All of the densely and moderately populated areas, but there's no money to be made in doing this in towns (large and small) and rural areas.
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
you insensitive clod!
So, will google turn over access information to the RIAA when people start using the free WIFI to download music?
... is google turning *that* evil ?
The FAQ deals with the secure client, not the actual wifi network. wifi.google.com leads to a redirect to google.com as well.
Is this an *actual* network or just a secured client connecting to a third party's network?
If it is their own, I wouldn't expect to see a US rollout any time soon - it'd be much cheaper (infrastructure wise) and faster to lease capacity from an existing provider. I'm not suggesting they're at all short on current (albeit in the form of hugely overvalued stock as well as a strong cash position flowing from adsense.
I'm probably just an idiot - but perhaps this article needs to be expanded, it's rather short on details. There isn't even a mention of the WiFi, just the secure client, on outside links.
Do NOT mod this up (unless it's modded down, obviously.) This is being posted at +2. It will be seen by all but the most selective Slashdotters. Use your mod points for something useful.
What is Google Secure Access?
Google Secure Access is a downloadable client application that allows users to establish a more secure WiFi connection.
Why would I want to download and install Google Secure Access?
Google Secure Access allows you to establish a more secure connection while using Google WiFi. By using Google Secure Access, your internet traffic will be encrypted, preventing others from viewing the information you transmit.
Does Google Secure Access connect to a VPN server?
Yes, Google Secure Access connects to Google's VPN ("Virtual Private Network") server provided for this service.
Why did Google develop Google Secure Access?
One of our engineers recognized that secure WiFi was virtually non-existent at most locations. As a result, he used his 20% project time to begin an initiative to offer users more secure WiFi access. Google Secure Access is the result of this endeavor.
What sort of information does Google have access to?
If you choose to use Google Secure Access, your internet traffic will be encrypted and sent through Google's servers to the Internet. The data that is received will then be encrypted and sent back through our servers to your computer. Your privacy is important to us, we strongly encourage you to read our Privacy Policy to be fully informed about how your privacy is protected.
Is there a fee for using Google Secure Access?
No, Google Secure Access is free.
Where can I go to download Google Secure Access?
The program can currently be downloaded at certain Google WiFi locations in the San Francisco Bay Area.
When I install Google Secure Access, why does it ask if I also want to install the Google Toolbar?
We've included the option to install the Google Toolbar because it improves your browsing experience.
Can I uninstall Google Secure Access?
Yes. You can uninstall Google Secure Access by simply running the Uninstall program. This can be found by clicking on Start Menu, Programs, Google Secure Access, and then choosing Uninstall.
How do I make my connection even more secure?
You can make your connection even more secure by using a software firewall. Windows XP users with Service Pack 2 can find it by clicking on Start, Control Panel, and then choosing Windows Firewall.
Will my corporate VPN still work?
Yes. You can connect to your corporate VPN while running Google Secure Access.
I have configured Google Secure Access to connect automatically, but it's not working. What's going on?
Certain wireless LAN management utilities and older wireless LAN adapter drivers prevent Google Secure Access from detecting that you're connected to the Google WiFi network. In this case it will not connect automatically, and you should connect manually to ensure the privacy and security of your network traffic.
Will Google Secure Access work at other locations?
While Google Secure Access should work, we have not tested it at other locations.
Why is Google Secure Access a beta product?
Google Secure Access is a new product that is only available at certain locations in the San Francisco Bay Area. We are constantly working to improve this product.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Here is is: http://wifi.google.com.nyud.net:8090/faq.html
The generation of random numbers is too important to leave to chance
And the next step (after rolling it out nationwide) is to introduce a cheap ($30?) handset that accesses the network. A "cellphone" with free phone calls -- forever.
That whistling is the sound of every phone company imploding at once.
It could end up being a hugely smart move.... I am sure that 90% of you have already figured out the business model... They will know exactly where you are (or close enough for hand grenades and horse shoes and... ads)...
Watch out clear channel... Why pay thousands to put your ad on an ugly billboard when you can put your ad less than two feet from a potential customers face... local.adwords.google.com.... (fake url) customers already use gmail and google at the hotspot, even without having some annoying gonna be hacked forced page to surf for free web machine, they can just set all the google sites that people already visit to places right around the corner...
If podcasts are going to replace radio, google wifi will replace ?
(a question for all those who recently took the sat)
Google reminds me a bit of 3m http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3M Start off as one buisness and then begin to dominate all buisnesses.
~ All comments automatically moderated -1 since 2004 ~
From the FAQ: "Why did Google develop Google Secure Access?
One of our engineers recognized that secure WiFi was virtually non-existent at most locations. As a result, he used his 20% project time to begin an initiative to offer users more secure WiFi access. Google Secure Access is the result of this endeavor."
That guy would need slightly more that 20% project time to help extending the service to the entire US..
Attitudes make the difference between Space and Time: we want to MAX our temporal, and MIN our spatial extension.
From TFFAQ:
>No, Google Secure Access is free.
I don't they they can possibly do this nation-wide or worldwide (imagine negotiating setup and maintenance with a different local partner in each country).
I think this is just a scaled up lab test. If they do anything like this, it should happen after WiMax is out.
Google, please roll this out in my area. My neighbors finally got smart and put passwords on their wireless routers.
Bury me in mashed potatoes.
The ISP idea is nice, but I think the real direction google should be taking is to release an Operating System, and turn the typical windows interface on its ear. We have been fed command line and windowing user interfaces already. What we need is the next great UI. Its my belief that google could pioneer the next "search" based interface, possibly with some good voice recognition. Something like "google suggest" driven by voice. The technology is here. The CPU horsepower is here. Lets see google come up with some great new algorithms and finally sink Bill's boat.
I couldn't fail to disagree with you any less.
I would jump at the opportunity to volunteer my yard the location for a low-powered neighborhood uplink to this service. Instead of expensive towers that provide access to everybody all at once and require various approval from the FCC and FAA (if the tower is tall enough) find people willing to host an uplink for a few square blocks. People like me. No matter which route I go -any- internet access will cost about $60 months - I either need to get a land line + DSL because nobody will provide DSL unless the line has an active phone number or I can get Comcast (and only Comcast because the local township granted them exclusive rights of service. If Google provides the equipment and the link I will be more than happy to ensure that my neighbors have another alternative for internet access.
If the g'vt kept the data on you that google does you'd better believe you'd be calling it "doing evil"
Google can cover all the important stuff by hitting the top two.
Elitist snob, eh?
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
Well unless I'm mistaken, major parts of your top three are included in the fourth. He did win two elections, you know.
Why does everything have to be political?
The preferred solution is to not have a problem.
but there's no money to be made in doing this in towns (large and small) and rural areas.
Do you think there is money to made at all when they are not charging?
So not only does Google want to archive your desktop, now they also want to read all of your Internet traffic in real-time at the dcecryption point?
It's a brave new world...
Brian T Glenn
delink.net Internet Services
hopefully these intuitive* business practices catch on elsewhere too...
*intuitive may or may not refer to practices which further the goals of a private enterprise to enslave the earth.
Note the trailing 'l':
http://wifi.google.com/download.html
Basically any 404 Not Found gets redirected to your local Google page... so get the link right and it works :)
And can people please RTFA. It's not free wi-fi, they don't have to roll out tons of gear... it's a VPN. It's to secure your connection from third party sniffers, and to give Google more info, ad insertion capabilities, etc... not a physical hardware network of wi-fi points.
I hope they target rural and outlying areas as well as the cities and suburbs. It seems that all of the new services target areas that are already have multiple broadband providers.
I'm in a semi-rural area, and DSL was not available until just two years ago. I have a choice of DSL from the local telco or satellite, both very expensive compared to urban and suburban areas with more choices.
I know that in truly rural areas, they only choice is satellite. It's expensive, with high latency and low download limits.
Since the "last mile" is an RF link, the investment should be much less than pulling fiber or copper.
If God had meant for man to see the sunrise, He would have scheduled it later in the day.
I couldn't find a single mention on the Google website of where the access points actually are in the Bay Area. Anybody care to post a link or list?
Well, Google probably won't turn over data to the RIAA, but this looks like another "Do your web browsing through a Google proxy! It's free! Don't bother reading our vague privacy policy!" Between this -- which they seem to be also encouraging the use of with non-Google wifi networks -- and Google Accelerator, it seems that a large number of people could be used by Google in a study of web-browsing habits.
To those commenting on how hard this is...
The announcement is not about rolling out hotspots. They are just providing an easy-to-set-up VPN connection using downloadable client software. Extending it to the rest of the country would just require distributed VPN host nodes.
People who disagree with you are not automatically evil, greedy, or stupid.
Google is rapidly expanding to the point where they seem poised to be the Ma Bell, AT&T, Microsoft, or Verizon of the online world. No criticism of their work and all but I like a little competition in my world.
This kind of thing needs to be stamped upon before it gets out of control.
Right on! I mean, first they get the karma. Then they start moderating others who do the same. Then they rule the world! Think of the consequences! My god man, all of human civilization is at stake here!
I think you need to put down your fifth cup of coffee, and take a short break...
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"
- Charles Darwin
Just be happy that you got something for free. You have no right to complain about anything because we put "beta" on it even though it is far beyond beta-grade.
So 5 years from now if your Google WiFi beta connection drops out you must react in the following manner, "Hmmm. . . that's interesting. I can't communicate with my clients anymore. But I guess I can only blame myself for depending on a Google, ahem, uh, a beta product."
Great! Just what I needed, more microwave radiation going through my brain! Seriously though, has anyone ever found any bad effects from long-term exposure to high frequency wireless signals? In my office, I'm within range of 4 - 5 base stations. I read an article a while back that stated that there is a slight heating of tissue when exposed to 2.4GHz wireless signals. With companies rolling out wireless access points all over major cities, I guess I would like that question answered once and for all. :)
It is a VPN client.
You download the software and it creates a VPN to vpn.google.com. It doesn't even have anything to do with wireless other than using this with wireless allows you to encrypt all your traffic on each end instead of with weak WEP or otherwise.
I just downloaded the client and just using my normal network card in my PC I was able to successfully connect to google and an ipconfig reveals a second connection:
PPP adapter vpn.google.com:
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description : WAN (PPP/SLIP) Interface
Physical Address : 00-53-45-00-00-00
Dhcp Enabled : No
IP Address : 192.168.201.8
Subnet Mask : 255.255.255.255
Default Gateway : 192.168.201.8
DNS Servers : 66.51.205.100 66.51.206.100
I only hope they'll create a server version too and give it out. I must say there was zero configuration and a monkey could have installed it. If they release a server version and allow a small amount of configuration this could come in handy.
I guess one side effect is that I should be able to anonymously browse the web through google.
Consequently, they must be having DNS issues or something of that nature because nothing seemed to resolve while connected.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
Will Google Secure Access work at other locations?
While Google Secure Access should work, we have not tested it at other locations.
Losers whine about their best, Winners go home to fuck the prom queen
DNS is working now. Not sure what was going on before. So this post will be made through the new google vpn client.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
Is this some new karma whoring scheme in which the original whore ask for no karma, then berates himself for trying to not get karma and be helpful, and then presents himself with some fine arguments for why he should not be berated by himself for gaining karma for himself, even though he asked that he not get any karma...
BRILLIANT! I wonder if he modded himself +1 insightful as well... simply BRILLIANT!
...because I'll probably be able to get Google's Wi-Fi here, if anywhere.
Best Buy can have you arrested
Why is it that Google software is always beta and always freezes once there? Does Google have any software that went beyond this beta label?
If Elitism means "Not the dumbest mutherfucker in the room", then I'll be an elitist!
However, they seem to be generating the username and password on the fly. The username consists of a number. I had expected that you'd have to use your Gmail username and password but this is not the case. There is something fishy about it. Presumably the Google Secure Access client retrieves some credentials over an out-of-band connection (HTTPS? Will have to figure out with a network sniffer).
There are some curious things in the VPN connectiod that GSA creates. First, they use an IP address (66.28.250.27) instead of vpn.google.com. The IP address is not even owned by Google. The connectiod allows the outdated protocols CHAP and MS-CHAPv1 to be used. Ouch. It also binds the MS Client and File and Printer Sharing to the connection. You better have a firewall on your system before you connect. PublicVPN seems to be a better option but it is not free.
-------
Warning: Slashdot may contain traces of nuts.
One window for all your needs. You need an ISP, email service, search, shopping... use Google.
I see this distinct trend ever since their IPO. They are trying to build a network of their own. It's almost frightening how blind most of my friends are towards this. For example, by using Jabber google becomes the community pet, but they keep a closed community by preventing S2S communication. AOL was massively successful this way building their network on top of telephone lines. Google is doing it on top of the current internet -- google web accelerator and things like this. It is like DRM, sooner or later everyone else will be using it and you'll have a tough choice to make.
Yahoo ! is no better, but at least people don't blindly trust Y! to do the right thing. I think I still have a couple of mags from 1992 when Bill Gates was the man who could do nothing wrong.
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur
I completely understand Google directing its resources at the largest market segment. What I don't understand is why Google would not release the source so that it can be ported by the community. It seems like Google is giving the Linux community the finger.
Picasa
Desktop
Earth
Talk
Secure Access
So far it seems this is only a VPN that provides
encryption between you and google servers.
I understand it would improve security when
using free Wifi or public terminals ?
Where are the hotspots?
Also why would it only work in SF?
Seems like vapourware to me.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
All of Google's new initiatives are aimed at collecting your true identity. Google wants to link your googling activities with your real-world identity.
Did you notice you can sign up for your own gmail invite IF you give them your cell phone number?
And you can get free WiFi IF you register and install their software on your PC?
Your link doesn't work for me.
Anyone who runs is V.C. Anyone who stands still is well-disciplined V.C.
Door Gunner, Full Metal Jacket
he was replying to this reply to his original post. I had trouble finding it too, but it was up a few minutes ago.
"In the game of life, someone always has to lose. To me, if life were fair, that someone would always be Oklahoma." -DKR
Got any Invites?
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
And it's call Apple OS X Tiger (10.4) with Spotlight.
If you've never used it, try it sometime.
Google needen't tie itself to any hardware or OS platform, they are [and should be] tied to information in all forms.
If this were simply a software application, why would they refer to "Google WiFi locations"?
Also, why would it only be available in the SF bay area?
Where can I go to download Google Secure Access?
The program can currently be downloaded at certain Google WiFi locations in the San Francisco Bay Area.
Tor anyone? Free and random, and no need to worry about some privacy policy.
The poster forgot to follow this with an evil, MUHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Because they don't need wi-fi access points, they need edge bandwidth to cope with the demand created by mass use of a VPN?
Lessee, article about Google setting up new WiFi hotspots appears right about the time there's an article posted about NASA's new lauch vehicle for getting to the moon. Do the math folks - we know where their first WiFi spot is gonna be!
"There is a thin line between ignorance and arrogance, and only I have managed to erase that line." - Dr. Science
That still leaves the question of why they call them "Google WiFi locations." Assuming that they are using third party wifi sites, then it really doesn't matter where the traffic comes from (SF, LA, NY, France) as it eventually has to hit the internet to travel over to googles ISP and eventually to google, effectively destroying any need to be local to the VPN server.
Wow, someone actually modded you offtopic for a follow up on your own post. Why are the mods so quick to judge? It seems like they don't take the time to look at the context of a post before moderating.
Where is that Mod 101 class !?
Radicode
From their privacy policy...
http://wifi.google.com/privacy-policy.html
Notice how they differentiate "Google WiFi" and "Google Secure Access client." Of course, there is no other mention of Google WiFi on the website yet. Technically, this language could be taken to mean that these are two seperate entities, or just one entity.
Google is actually (confirmed!) rolling out their wifi network, first in the San Francisco bay area
I'm glad to see that someone is rolling out WiFi in the Bay Area. It's just so hard to find an access point here!
Larry did listen to me!
Java Oracle Linux Enthusiast
If you use their VPN you'll have a tunnel to their server. You'll have to trust Google that they aren't doing evil with all the traffic you send their way.
But if you use any old open access point you stumble across, who are you trusting? If you're not doing VPN already from that point you're at the mercy of whomever setup the AP and likely not even using WEP. Are you sure that the AP you connect to is some idiot too stupid to rename it something other than "linksys" or is it a honeypot waiting to sniff what you send/receive?
Using Google VPN over an open AP might just be the case of the devil you know vs. the devil you don't know.
But, where do I plug the phone line in?
"It'll destroy you if you try to make it mean anything to anyone but yourself." - Henry Rollins
I do think you're a little premature here in your concern over a google-monopoly. So far as yet, they haven't put anyone else out of business. I also can't see any of their products excluding other players from their space. The traditional monopolists like MaBell and Microsoft leveraged product areas where consumers seemingly only have one choice-- local phone provider or OS provider. In the case of Google, consumers will always be able to install other tool bars, use other email services, reference different online map providers, etc.
Seth
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
This would be GREAT for people like me who are cheap to buy their own broadband service & who steal their neighbor's service & who are also paranoid about someone sniffing their data traffic. Not that people who provide me with free wireless service (unintentional) are also capable of data sniffing. Ofcourse, there might be some people like me who (when I was paying for DSL) would routinely sniff data traffic of people who were freeloading on me. It was fun to see all they were doing. But then I got cheap & started whoring from other people.
Yeah, I'm a bad boy....
If google ever offers a free Public WiFi service, do you think they would go as far as providing free public online storage too? check out the article at http://www.googleaddiction.com
Is anyone else freaked out by one of the FAQ questions?
We've included the option to install the Google Toolbar because it improves your browsing experience.
That seems like they aren't above bundling something just because they think you should use it. Scary?
This seems to be Google's primary business model... provide a great, free service to the end-user, mine a wealth of information received secondarily from end-user's use of the service, and use that information to improve Google's databases or sell more and better-targeted ads.
For those interested, here is Google's privacy policy for this service. Interesting parts are highlighted for your enjoyment.
Google Secure Access Privacy Policy
The Google Privacy Policy describes how we treat personal information when you use Google's services, including information provided when you use the Google WiFi or Google Secure Access client. In addition, the following describes our practices that are specific to the Google Secure Access client:
Using Google Secure Access
We understand and respect that you are concerned about your privacy, that's one of the driving reasons why we created Google Secure Access. Using insecure networks, such as public wireless networks, can leave your internet traffic open to snooping by others in the vicinity of the wireless network. Google Secure Access helps address this problem by encrypting all traffic from and to your machine and passing it from the insecure network through a trusted gateway. If you choose to use Google Secure Access, your internet traffic will be encrypted and sent through Google's servers to the internet, then received from those servers to be encrypted and sent back through our servers to your computer.
Google is committed to helping our users ensure their privacy and understand their privacy choices. That's why we want you to know that if you choose to use Google Secure Access, all your internet traffic will pass through Google's gateway servers. That means that your internet traffic is sent through Google's servers and Google is careful not to store any of that information except as noted here.
Google may log some information from your web page requests as may the websites that you visit. We do this to understand how Google Secure Access is being used and to improve our services. Google Secure Access does not log cookies and strips potentially sensitive query data from the end of requests to help better protect your privacy.
Google also logs a small set of non-personally identifiable information -- such as routing information, session durations and operating system and Google Secure Access client version numbers -- in order to create your Google Secure Access connection, understand how people are using Google Secure Access and help us maintain the Google Secure Access client.
Google will not sell or provide personally identifiable information to any third parties except under the limited circumstances described in the Google Privacy Policy. If Google concludes that we are required by law or have a good faith belief that collection, preservation or disclosure of additional information is reasonably necessary to protect the rights, property or safety of Google, our users or the public, such as if we believe the Google Secure Access service is being abused, we may for a limited period of time preserve additional internet traffic or other information.
Did you see the pool? They flipped the bitch!
Look at coverage maps for the last few years. Note how they have just barely moved further out from where they were 3-5 years ago?
Instead of "Hey, you can do 'this' now." How about some more "Hey, we just added another 500sq miles of coverage this month!"
You will impress me more with COVEREAGE than cheap tricks. :\
(Goes back to browsing on his MAX 24K modem connection.. no wait.. I lucked out 26K today.)
Does anyone else find it odd that Google has released a FAQ (frequenty asked questions) on something that they are just now announcing and that doesn't even actually exist yet?
How were people asking such specific questions on something non-existant? How were people asking these questions frequently?
-dr. layyze f. tooth PhD
Then what would a user with a laptop in a park have to do to get Wi-Fi internet access? Would one have to buy service from a Provider, and use Google's Secure Access only for securing the information transferred?
It is called lock in and choice.
If I want to use AOL I have no choice but to use their proprietary PPP software. Google's ISP is standards-based VPN, I can use any number of software packages to connect to it.
If I want to use the MSN Messenger network I have (at least from MS's point of view) no choice but to use MSN messenger. Google's IM network is standards based Jabber, I can use any client and they even promote this.
If I want to use MSN TV I have to use Windows Media Player. Google Video uses standard open codecs and I can even download the source code for it.
AOL and MS want to try to lock you in to use only their services. Google wants to *convince* you to use their services by making them the best. This is a huge difference.
...and was able to get the software. A whois on my IP also says that I'm in Japan, just for confimation.
With such small cells (WiFi range), google gets location awareness for free (no need to integrate with any sort of GPS system).
So, froogle can really narrow your searches to the local shops, just two blocks away. And obviously, sell them ad spaces...
Windows XP, school connection, the VPN connects but nothing can get in or out. Tried disabling the XP Firewall with no effect.
Packet sniffer indicates no replies to ping, DNS, or any other TCP connection.
Yawn, wake me when they do NYC.
Installed, icon shows up in the systray but I am getting the following error:
Secure Connection Failed:
(Error Code: 0x800702f4)
Hagrin.com
Take a look at this entry in the FAQ:
Will Google Secure Access work at other locations?
While Google Secure Access should work, we have not tested it at other locations.
That certainly says that they do not own the hot-spot, though it doesn't answer wether or not they will be putting up their own hot-spots as well.
So that's Windows-only Google talk (the client, at least); Windows-only Google Desktop 2; Windows-only Google Web Accelerator; Windows-only Google Video Viewer; and Windows-only Google Earth. Now its Windows-only Google Secure Wi-Fi.
Admittedly, I'm looking a gift horse in the mouth. These services are all provided free, and Google is under no obligation to support Mac or Linux.
But for a company sworn to do no evil, they're sure in bed with a company which has, in the past, been rather naughty.
This is my post. There are many others like it. If you don't like what you read here, go try one of the others.
If it's VPN, that's a lot of bandwidth. I'm guessing that there's no way they can handle that much traffic through their VPN servers, so they're limiting to one region first.
Dammit.
It's just a stupid 'secure access' client created by Google. They are *not* offering free WiFi.
Damn title is misleading. I should expect that by now, but I keep holding out.
May the camels of a thousand fleas infest your crotch.
Here's a paragraph from the Reuters article:
"The launch of a WiFi service would move Google away from its core Internet search service and into the competitive world of Internet service providers and telecommunications giants."
It's amazing to me how deep the sense of corporate entitlement there is in terms of keeping the status quo and protecting business models. Instead of seeing Google's WiFi as a threat to the telecom giants - how about seeing the telecom giants as slow, monopoly-driven bohemoths that have done as much as possible to stifle innovation. It's been what, 10 years since I've had DSL the first time and it's still a pain in the rear to get set-up and the bandwidth is still asynch and high latency.
No - I see this as Google "Taking Back" the idea of internet connectivity from the purely greedy telecom companies. The telecoms see the internet as a forced-bundling opportunity. Google might just de-couple the forced-bundling part and actually give away internet access. This does not really threaten the telecoms, as they have complained for years that their government-granted monolopies were not really profitable and that they could not afford the infrastructure. Be gone with them!
This will never make it to my neck of the woods. In fact, Google, I dare you to bring it here next.
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
...but doesn't this remind everyone of the Internet bubble? Every two seconds, a new "idea" or "product announcement" was released and it drove up stock price and the like. This went on for years until everyone realized that these companies with these ideas had no business plan for revenue whatsoever. What is Google's plan here? Are they going to become an ISP in urban markets? I am a little skeptical of all of their new products and services, especially in relation with their Stock Price.
"Give up hope, dreams are for suckers."
The bay area is a large place. Where are the access points?
If YOU could please RTFA, you'd see that the entire purpose of the new product is to secure, that's right, wireless connections.
...older wireless LAN adapter drivers prevent Google Secure Access from detecting that you're connected to the Google WiFi network...
And the FAQ specifically says the software is a) available at "Google WiFi locations", and b) connects to their server.
Most damingly (for your opinion) is the statement:
The "Google WiFi network" is clearly not the same as "Google Secure Access", and does obviously involve deploying hardware.
If you're not living on the edge, you're just taking up space!
The real Matrix beings...
Powered by Google
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I've always thought StrataLite was a cool concept. Put a few dozen of these rotating over the US and you'd have a pretty neat wireless network.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratalite/
interesting, vpn.google.com is owned by cogentco and those nameservers are owned by dslextreme
0
http://ws.arin.net/whois/?queryinput=66.28.250.23
http://ws.arin.net/whois/?queryinput=66.51.206.10
The flipside of this is privacy, I suppose. That may be the relevancy-killer.
The flipside is everyone living in their own isolated little bubble. The common ground produced by having a single set of media, available across the whole nation has been great for homogenizing america -- and will be noticed when its gone.
And can people please RTFA. It's not free wi-fi, they don't have to roll out tons of gear... it's a VPN. It's to secure your connection from third party sniffers
From TFA that I apparently didn't read:
Where can I go to download Google Secure Access?
The program can currently be downloaded at certain Google WiFi locations in the San Francisco Bay Area.
I have a feeling the VPN client might work when you aren't using Google WiFi as your connection point, but it's clearly intended to be used with Google's own access points.
--
Think Google's Innovative? Well, it's no Zombo.com
I'll be interested in their ToS and AUP>/b>, etc. Are they going to be Googling your network traffic; and if so, what would they "do" with it. Not paranoia, just reality - passive traffic monitoring and analysis already happens (and you'd be surprised at where!).
This looks very much like a product created by Rocksteady called W-IPN (Wireless Individual Private Networking).
The user downloads an executable and runs it. The executable retrieves a randomly generated user name and password over a secure SSL (TLS) link from the server. Then, it logs into the server with the given name/password and set up a VPN. From the user's point of view, it's painless VPN (as long as you trust whoever provided the executable to you).
Others may have also done this, but W-IPN is the only similar thing I know of.
Actually what I found most interesting in this was the line about the engineer's "20% project time." If that means what I think it does -- namely that Google's engineers get 20% of their time free to work on side projects -- that's a very cool thing. It wouldn't surprise me if some of these side projects are where their latest ideas have come from.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
I don't know if anybody will see this, but...
1. What is currently available is a PTPP VPN.
2. The VPN should theoretically work over any ANY internet connection.
3. It can theoretically be used on ANY OS that has support for PTPP VPNs (may require a bit of scripting for retriving a username and password), although the download is Windows only.
4. It is especially intended for wifi.
5. There are references to a Google Wifi network in the FAQ, but no indication if the network exists yet.
6. This is not unlike how Google brought up their jabber server before Google Talk was launched, except here they bring up their VPN before their wifi network is launched.
Open question: How does anybody find these things? Google internal sources?
Here's an article I've posted detailing some both some of the scattered info I've found so far and some further research I've done myself about the client. http://blog.thetechgurus.net/?p=36
With javascript off, i've never had redirects with Google.
Yahoo does have redirects, even with JS off.
Here's the SF Muni WiFi site
http://www.sfgov.org/site/tech_connect_page.asp?id =33899
if you read the Answers to Written Questions submitted by Sept 7th doc, you'll see that the city is not really interested in using wifi to it's full potential.
52. Q. Does the City plan to use TechConnect as a _primary infrastructure_ for Emergency/Disaster Service?
A. The City anticipates using TechConnect as one network to provide service in an emergency situation. The City does not plan to rely on a single technology, network or service for emergency/disaster service.
They have no SLA's that require the network to last after a disaster with redundancy, batteries, alternative power etc It seems, they narrowly changed the question and gave an elogated answer because they want free wifi from Google rather than holding out for a better overall city solution.
We need to find ways to allow real public participation in the creation of the wifi network for the city. Particularly one that works right after our inevitable earthquake.
Right now the city is taking Comments through end of September, but it is starting to seem they have already decided to go with whatever Google offers.
The SF approach to public comment is pretty lame - blind email only - please encourage them to get into the 21st century with e-rulemaking technologies to help create the best SF Muni RFP. Also encourage the committee to post electronically all the RFI/RFC submittals - since some groups may try to avoid publicity by submitting them only on paper.
A sample wonderful e-rulemaking site:
http://dotank.nyls.edu/projects/ERulemaking/sys_in dex.pl
Here's some great ways we could use technology and smartmobs ideas to improve the city response
http://www.stephensonstrategies.com/
Send your email comments requesting more open public participation and real support for disaster recovery wifi to the following:
TechConnect Information Line: (415) 554-5008
Email: techconnect@sfgov.org
Board of Supervisors:
http://www.sfgov.org/site/bdsupvrs_index.asp?id=72 71
particularly:
tom.ammiano@sfgov.org who as been an advocate of SF Wifi and
Ross.Mirkarimi@sfgov.org
Mayor:
Telephone: (415) 554-6141
Email: gavin.newsom@sfgov.org
SF Office of Emergency Services
http://www.sfgov.org/site/oes_index.asp?id=1399
ANN.STANGBY@SFGOV.ORG (Disaster planning Chief)
hahahahaha, it's taught right after the Slashdot editor class "How Not To Post Dupes 101", a class with no attendance whatsoever
Unless I'm moderating myself, stuff that's meant to be humorous isn't moderated so. I guess all the code monkeys shut their humor indicators of between 11 and 6, because they're not up before then anyways. Now, was the flamebait, humorous, off-topic or truth?
"It'll destroy you if you try to make it mean anything to anyone but yourself." - Henry Rollins
I go to school at a University that blocks any form of P2P traffic using a system called ICARUS. Using this VPN, would I be able to bypass ICARUS and go back to downloading my Linux torrents?
Because it's a VPN client you use to securely connect to the internet using a Google WiFi spot, so you can't get sniffed. It knows if you aren't connected via a Google WiFi link, and won't work otherwise.
~~~~~ BigLig2? You mean there's another one of me?
Google is watching you.
And this begs the question, why are they called "Google WiFi spots" that indicates google has their own implamentation of wifi AP's, or they have a contract to only use one companies Wifi spots? but it sounds more like the former option.
That is basically why a lot of companies go bankrupt, like Enron.
UH, this isn't true. I'm using it on my comcast connection right now.
My email addy? should be easy enough.
You might want to check out what the phrase "begging the question" actually means.
. --- If you're looking for free e-mail you won't find it here! http://www.noemailhere.com
Well, it's not confirmed but many people suspect it is option three.
..., profit!
Which is, that they are called Google WiFi spots because Google owns them. We see from various job adverts etc. that Google have been cheaply buying enormous amounts of dark fibre to build a fast global backbone network. Take this, add WiFi or WiMax for the last mile, bing! Instant huge ISP. Make it Ad supported and free, bing! Every internet packet in the world goes thru Google. Google owns the internet,
~~~~~ BigLig2? You mean there's another one of me?
Interesting. Is all your internet traffic going down the VPN OK? What's the impact on latency?
~~~~~ BigLig2? You mean there's another one of me?
But concentrating all the tunnel endpoints at one service point is Unavoidably Evil, and is especially dangerous for tunnel endpoints in the US. There are two main attackers to worry about - Google, and the Feds. Google's currently promising not to divulge your information to third-parties just for commercial profit, but they will divulge it "if required by law". Not only does this mean that the Feds or state can get a court to issue a search-warrant following Constitutional standards, but it also means that the Feds can issue a demand for records under FISA or the PATRIOT act with less legal proof than a normal warrant and a gag-order forbidding Google from telling anybody they're being ordered to divulge the information. It probably also means that anybody who's doing a lawsuit can get a subpoena ordering Google to divulge any records they're keeping, though there's no gag order, and Google can probably restrict this to subpoenas for specific information justified by some evidence, as opposed to the kinds of wide-range fishing trips the MPAA, RIAA, and Scientologists like to try.
Also, the software and protocols don't appear to be Open Source. So while it's likely that Google has done Something Technically Reasonable, that doesn't tell us whether they're using SSL or IPSEC VPNs, or whether they're using ephemeral Diffie-Hellman key exchange to get Perfect Forward Secrecy on the keys as opposed to using RSA or El-Gamal keys which can be decrypted in the future if you get the recipient's private keys.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
From TFA:
It can be used with or without a Google WiFi hotspot. Why would Google only allow you to use it on their hotspot anyways?
chown -R us
not to be a smart@ss, really... but this is a free service...
/24 or so to isp's with "no export"
Here is what I think... fsck their security.. Don't rely on the wire to secure you... rely on your connections to your destinations... Once you pop out of google's concentrator, your packets are going to be free and wild of security...
There is ssl smtp and imap... https... ssh, jabber supports ssl...
As for the tunnel endpoints.. they can do clever things... they can have a backup tunnel config if the primary concentrator fails... even cooler, there is now support in certain hardware to share ipsec sa databases and have a hot standby ipsec tunnel endpoint... I really would not care if they just used GRE... You can also do bgp anycast announcing a
If they do their own backbone then they can just use ospf anycast... If you have the brains and cash of google, you can make this work pretty well...
Peter
I read that it didn't, my mistake.
I suppose it makes sense for them to make this work for everyone, since it means they can give ads to people whether they use Google WiFi or not.
~~~~~ BigLig2? You mean there's another one of me?