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Dell Finally Goes for AMD
this great guy writes "You read it correctly. It had to happen one day.
According to Forbes
'Dell Inc has informed its Taiwan contract makers of plans to develop devices based on Advanced Micro Devices Inc's microprocessors, and these suppliers are awaiting orders for global shipment, the Economic Daily News reported, citing industry sources.'"
Go Dell!
Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
Dell-inux ready for mass market
With the AMD lawsuit against Intel (which I think is stupid, the main reason AMD doesn't sell well is crappy marketing), Intel will have a hard time retaliating against Dell.
More lower priced systems.
I really want one of those XPS systems with a nice AMD processor...
I wonder if Dell's prices will drop?
Resident of Skara Brae since 1985
It's not the GHZ speed, it's how you use it.
AMD let me be the first to to say "good move." But is this just a short-term success or is AMD a steady horse?
Maybe not... http://www.infoworld.nl/idgns/bericht.phtml?id=002 56F6C005C22FC482570C0002A51C7
I want my! I want my! I want my Eee PC!
It's not April 1st is it?
---
Programming is like sex... Make one mistake and support it the rest of your life.
All these years, I've been waiting for Dell to make an AMD box. Let's see if they do it well.... in the past, I have looked at Dells but passed them up for better-performing AMD machines I built by hand. I bought Dells at work, but it wasn't good enough for me to personally own one.
AC
And not just Rebadged Intel Chips? I mean its quite a coincidence that these stories appear just after each other on Slashdot... a sure sign of an international conspiracy surely!
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
until AMD starts to become / feel like an evil giant corp then. It seems to happen to every company soon after it gets it's, or at least a, big break. It's even starting to happen to Google. The company starts off with high minded ideals grows a bit on teh back of its initially supportes then suddenly starts wanting to own everything. I suppose it's just the lure of money but it's a shame it happens. Hope it doesn't happen to AMD because my view of them, and I may well be totally wrong, is a bunch of hard working people that started off fighting a battle that everyone thought they would lose in 10 minutes flat. But through determination and quality products they have succeded in making something of themselves. Everyone loves the under-dog :o)
I used to have a better sig but it broke.
Snow in Hell.
...Dell is pulling an Apple and deny everything until they launch the new AMD line of servers.
AMD processors are already available as parts on the Dell site apparently.
home
This is really only happening because Intel has dropped the ball so bad with server processors. Anyone know why Intel, with all their resources, didn't have a decent x64, multi-core product before AMD? Never mind one that uses fewer watts.
It's surprising, but really should give hope to the Linux crew. This is a testament that in our society the underdog can come up and take a bite out of the front runner.... regardless of their fortunes. look out ms.
As long as only Forbes are saying it, I would take it with a large pinch of salt. I've seen enough of their reports written by/for SCO to know they can't be relied on to check their facts.
oohh a new dell dual core laptop. That would be sweet.
It has been statistically shown that helmets increase the risk of head injury.
How many fulltime jobs can one man have?
Finally! woohoo!
Dell has been in bed with Intel for a long time. Their offering standalone AMD CPUs was simply to stave off legal action.
What matters is the price point here. We don't buy AMD because they're "better" than Intel - a clock is a clock. They're no more or less stable, no better supported. We buy them because they're cheaper.
Dell is in the position to take that benefit away from AMD. If they're still loyal to Intel, they'll be pricing their AMD machines on par, or even higher, than their Intel counter parts, and pocketing the change.
Hell has just frozen over; on the spot is FOX News correspondance, and close friend of Satan, Karl Rove...
"So Satan, it appears that hell has frozen over.."
"NO, thats just a vicious rumour spread by enemies of the US, sorry, Hell.....things are just getting ready for Christmas.....this snow is just.....decorations.....*excellent*"
"Really?!"
"Yes really, so piss off...I"m trying to order my Dell AMD machine...."
Apple sure can pick 'em.
The Register are also carrying the story, and claiming that products across the range (Laptop/Desktop/Server) are being sourced.
To me, this makes little sense. I think we can all agree that the Pentium-M is superior for laptops, so there is little point in Dell producing AMD based laptops, especially given the AMD ones will be more expensive once subsidies from Intel are accounted for.
Desktops are a similar story - there AMD has the superior processor, but it's still going to wind up more expensive thanks to Intel.
Servers are the only market where this seems to be a good move, as it will allow Dell to flog dual-core server rigs which Intel are currently unable to provide.
Unless I'm mising something of course...
It seems whenever Dell needs more price concessions from Intel, they just have to dangle the possibility out there that they could start offering AMD-powered systems. I suspect after a few quick phone calls, Dell will get cheaper processors and this "rumour" will be relegated to the dustbin (again). Sigh...
Dell are about low inventory and overheads. While some people didn't buy Dells because they wanted AMD chips, I doubt the number of people buying AMDs from Dell will offset the immense cost of running a much larger warehousing and manufacturing operation due to incompatibilities between part lines.
I'd assume that because of this fact, AMD will most likely only appear in servers where Intel can't deliver, because if they go down to the desktop level, and there's no product differentiation, Dell will most likely find themselves in the same position as HP, who I don't buy from simply because I don't have the time to fathom the differences between 47 desktop models, 37 laptops, 53 laser printers and 73 inkjets with varying specs.
Dell won out for me because they kept it simple and focused, I hope they still do that, rather than end up fighting AMD vs. Intel between their own products as others do.
Has Intel now promised Dell that they won't suffer punitive pricing for selling non-Intel machines?
Thank you, Edward Snowden.
"Arguments from authority are worthless." —Carl Sagan
Are they shopping for a another price break from Intel for staying with a single vendor?
-Phil
Shoot questions, first ask later...
I guess dell just wanted out of the space heater buisness.
XML - A clever joke would be here if
Does this mean they'll be even cheaper? *smilie* *winky*
TPJ - Founder, The Amazon Basin
Is this a sign of the end of the world? Or just one of the natural processors of life?
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
Sell sell sell!
What's next? Bill Gates professes a manly love for Linux and announces DirectX, Windows Media Player, Microsoft Office and Exchange Server for Linux?
If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?
Let's assume for an instant that the story is correct.
It could be that Dell have started noticing that they're losing out on contracts because of the heat that their Intel based servers are kicking out. I know of several contracts (even in my limited circle of knowledge) where the Dell submision appeared to give the most bang-per-buck, but didn't get the contract when the cost of the extra air-con was included in the total cost of ownership.
Air-con is a non-negligible expense in any half-way serious machine room.
Moderators: The parent is meant to be funny and not even shooting for a "5, Interesting". Look at the linked story, it's the one about selling celerons as P4s. Dell would probably not benefit from selling fake P4 processors in the current situation.
- 4r0g
It seems to me this *would* be a smart move. Clearly there are areas where AMD is superior (servers, gaming rigs, multicore high end workstations) and areas where Intel is superior (laptops, mid-range to low-end desktops, content-encoding workstations). The only reason *not* to do something like this is if Intel gives Dell significant financial incentives (or dis-incentives) ... which I would certainly not rule out.
The more you regulate a company, the worse its products become.
http://news.techwhack.com/2510/211135-dell-denies- possibilities-of-an-amd-based-pc/
Dell has clarified that any rumors of it planning to manufacture a Dell PC based on AMD processors are false. Market has reported that the company had notified Taiwanese PC contract manufacturers to ready production lines to produce Dell PC systems using microprocessors made by Advanced Micro Devices Inc. the statement from the company now nullifies these rumors.
Taiwanese companies like Hon Hai Precision Industry Co. Ltd. and Quanta Computer Inc. were mentioned in the rumor reports. Some of these Taiwanese companies are the biggest outsourced suppliers for Dell and they are usually the first one to see some of the newer products from the tech giant.
Dell has a special business relationship with Intel, which the market analysts claim gets them huge discounts. This is also said to be the reason why Dell does not build PC products using AMD processors despite high demands for them. However, the rumors of an AMD powered Dell became stronger after Dell started selling AMD processors on their web stores sometime back.
)this was mentioned a few posts up but noone seemed to catch it)
-everphilski-
The surefire indicater. Keep an eye on the ticker in the coming weeks, folks. $$$$ talks...., Watch where the money goes.
.... As Dell recently missed their forcasts with Wall Street and their stock took a pounding as a result. They're going to need a new stream of revenue to keep their shareholders happy. Going AMD *MAY* be the best way to do that (assuming the rumor is true).
This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
If dell starts to sells amd, intel will not be able to jack up the price of their chips to dell, because a higher price would only result in more people buying amd. The only outcome that probably would happen is there would be a price war between amd and intel the likes of we have never seen before. But no matter what happens, prices would not rise at all. Plus if dell made a 700m with an amd 64bit chip I would pick one up on the spot.
Of course it had to happen sometime, and unfortunately for Intel, this is a big happen. It's great to see AMD's impact on the market.
[%] Cingular Ringtones
besides, Jerry Sanders is a lot more likable than Gordon Moore. I mean, what would you rather give your kid-- a plush Jerry Sanders doll or a plush Gordon Moore? :-)
That is not the title I would use for this story. Nothing is confirmed. Nothing is close to confirmed.
While the individual listings of CPUs on Dull's site has meant nothing for years that it has happened this could be real news. The question then becomes why is this happening if indeed this story is true? Reasons could be as follows.
1. End of the year price negotiation time with Intel.
2. Intel's see, AMD is doing good, don't come down on use for monopolistic practices Mr. Government man.
3. Dull finally does listen to customers after years of saying they do but lying out their teeth.
Certainly one must wonder what exactly Dull has one their mind for a product, and clearing the server and gaming/workstation segment is where they are getting killed on performance, and performance per watt. They can Apple up their product line all they want, but with analyts on their case for a poorer than expected quarter they could legitimately be looking to save some face. Their consumer electronic attempts have largely failed, and we all remember their attempt to take over the white box market, dominated by AMD. Not too pretty a pony for them on that idea.
Some may question if AMD has enough capacity for them. Those people haven't been paying attention. AMD has a new fab coming on line. AMD has a deal with IBM and Chartered Semiconductor for additional capacity if needed. Dull will not switch their entire product line from Intel to AMD. Anyone thinking capacity is a problem, Dull included, is foolish. This is a strictly numbers bottom line game. If AMD is hurting Intel enough, and therefor Dull enough due to outright demand, and share starts slipping, and customers start saying hello to HP, Gateway, IBM, and Sun, then something has to be done if Intel can not deliver in 2006 as it currently appears.
Surely it could also be insurance for the antitrust suit for Intel. They could come to Dull and say ok. The heat is on. Put out one or two AMD product lines. Make a fuss about it in the media. Don't push them through your sales force. We won't take away your discount, or bump you down the product allocation totem pole, nor pull coop marketing dollars. Just the illusion of AMD and Dull being all buddy buddy, and we could see this happen until the case blows over.
ignorance is bliss. googlefiberatx.com
Will this be a PC? or some other device uisng the AMD processor. My sources tell me it will be some media player for the entertainment system.
I put an order in last night to buy AMD stock. Damn Damn Damn. Thankfully it was a limit order, but I bet it won't be filled.
Yes, and Dell will also rename their MP3 player "iPod," and Apple will begin calling theirs "Digital Jukebox," thus completing the role reversal.
In a further development "Bill Gates professes a manly love for Linux and denounces DirectX, Windows Media Player, Microsoft Office and Exchange Server."
Wow, the mere thought of that gave me a stiffy...
Good. Dell using AMD will free up some of the Intel CPU supply for Apple. Apple has a history of demanding more CPUs than their suppliers can provide. This move will help Intel provide the demand Apple will soon be generating.
Dell Sells around 40-50 million units per year, I think.
Intel & AMD probably sell 100 million computer chips per year, maybe.
Apple sells 4 million units in a good year. I don't think Apple really matters
in this equation much. Apple fans thinking otherwise is just delusions
of grandeur.
It's like saying that if my town stops filling petrol for a week, petrol prices
are going to drop.
Now if they'd only ship their servers with *nix (making workstations as their first step in linux was not a good move).
I had college once, but I drank some fluids and got a lot of rest and eventually it was cured.
Who to believe?
And don't you think a real denial would have the name of a press contact attached?
Short sell Intel, the sacred cow just gor slaughtered.
Those responsible for sacking the people who have just been sacked, have been sacked.
And they said zombies weren't real!
AMD has beaten Intel where marketing makes a difference, at Retail. It was only recently reported here on Slashdot that AMD had surpassed Intel in retail sales. And everyone poo-pooed it because it doesn't include the OEM manufacturers like Dell. So clearly AMD's marketing is working if they're outpacing Intel in the retail channel.
Getting Dell to ship AMD Boxes has nothing to do with marketing and EVERYTHING to do with Intel's anti-trust behaviour, and back-room dealings. Marketing by AMD has no impact on whether Dell will ship AMD Boxes (most of the other boxed OEM's already ship AMD based systems).
I'll believe this when:
* The machines are for sale as prominently as the Intel based stuff.
* The price is competitive (or at least the same as the Intel stuff).
* AMD's advantages are touted on the product page.
* Someone has bought one, and found that execution is good.
Remember, Dell also sells (or did? I lose track...) Linux machines. Supposedly.
jh
So if Dell are going to be using AMD chips and stuff, does that mean each one of us geeks can get a girlfriend/boyfriend??????
really, i'd like to know..
/. is good for you.
Reading their "news" one would buess that they're actually paid by wall-street traders to make stock prices dance. Hell, Anon Coward on /. has a better track record than Dan Lyons of Forbes.
The problem is that as we have customers in several countries, we'd be limited about the number of available providers that offer global support.
Given the latest benchmarks and the better architecture put forward by AMD, we would like to have Opteron servers for our deployments, but... HP and Sun Opteron servers were relatively expensive, while Dell only did Intel...
I suspect our company isn't the only one considering this case, so probably this will be a rather good move for Dell (moreover taking into account Intel's crappy multiprocessor-multicore architecture, with a shared memory controller for ALL cores).
I'll believe it after the first Dell system with an AMD processor has shipped and not a minute before.
It's about time that AMD got into the thick of it with Dell. AMD should do better for people who are against Intel (like myself) who are thinking of buying a Dell PC. Yay!
Who needs dell when 2006 will bring the Cell AMD and Intel will be obsolete....
We have a few of these, and while they're qute dandy, we could use an Opteron boost for our VMWare servers.
There exists no way of exchanging information without making judgments. --Bene Gesserit Axiom
It's November 21st. :-)
If there's any one company which deserves to get its butt kicked, it's Intel.
Their current problem is due to bad engineering. They just don't have the engineering talent to pull themselves out of the dumper anymore. And the reason why they don't have the talent is because they have aggressively offshored their jobs, at the expense of bringing in new talent.
Had they actually been hiring the brightest new kids out of college and training them under the guidance of experienced engineers, Intel wouldn't be in this mess. But no, the PHB's have fallen for the H1/L1/offshore hype in a big way. I'm sorry, I've worked a lot with the people from India, and 99% of them just don't cut it (the other 1% is impressive, but they always end up with better opportunities elsewhere).
Now it's time to pay the piper.
Intel deserves its current course straight into the dumper. And they no longer have the technical talent to do anything great anymore; it's questionable if they have the ability to reverse the course they're on.
It's absolutely delightful to see the mistakes of offshoring coming back to bite Intel in a very big way.
Seriously. Congratulations. That was a hard fought victory. They totally derserve it.
There's something that's being overlooked here...
The American mindset is that if something is more expensive, it's immediately of higher quality and/or performance. Not everything is "bargain basement price" when it comes to consumer habits (see: iPod).
If Dell did offer AMD systems at a higher price point, the consumer perception would very likely be that the AMD systems are the "premium" systems, while the Intel boxen are their "budget" line.
When you want people to think that your product is the best on the market, just add a zero to the price.
And in other news, large squadron of flying "Sus domesticus" have been reported across the nation, under the watchful eye of NORAD.
Predictably, Homeland security has no comments at this time.
AMD is getting close to starting its second manufacturing plant in Dresden, Germany. When that plant starts putting out processors, AMD will have a lot more processors that need to be sold.
At that point, they might be willing to compete with Intel's discounts for Dell and other large vendors. If I am guessing right here, now would be the time for Dell to start thinking about details like the mainboards to be used.
C - the footgun of programming languages
When information on corporate plans gets leaked like this, who is responsible for its affect on the markets? Anyone who had any advance information on this, up to and including Forbes, its editors, and anyone they emailed to say "check out this story", --- all those people had an unfair jump on the rest of the market in terms of the affect of this news on Dell, AMD, etc. stock prices.
I know this kind of crap happens all the time, but wtf is the SEC doing to make sure information isn't leaked through the good ol boy system?
I wonder what this will do to Intel. Maybe this is one step to Intel being destroyed!
A lot of rumours come out of Economic Daily News, but some of them turn out to be false, like the Apple tablet rumour (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/04/14/apple_con tracts_quanta_to_build/) ;)
Still, this should serve well to pump up the stock price
The devil has said that they are anxiously awaiting hell's first snowfall. The temperature is going to drop to well below freezing and Route 666 will freeze over.
Looking for a job?
Want your resume written professionally?
DON'T USE TUNAREZ!!!
Also, the claim that workstations were their "first step in Linux" isn't true - I'm pretty certain that their well-hidden Linux desktops (yes, can you find a Dell desktop that runs Linux?! They do actually sell them, but it's almost impossible to find them on their site) came out years after they starting shipping Linux on their PowerEdges.
Low cost computers built of shit and AMD apparently.
Worse still, that Dell kid is gonna fag up AMD too.
Dude, his UID is obscenely high! :)
:(
Damn the karma cap. (I forget, what was the name of the guy that racked up 250-300+ karma and then went on a +1 trolling spree with it, causing Taco to put in the karma cap as a response?)
And speaking of the good old days, I miss b0redatwork. He was a great poster, haven't seen him in years.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
this is only going to be for server hardware, not desktops
Laptops are the primary domain of the "big" system vendors, many of whom are locked in to Intel by Intel's anticompetitive policies. i.e. AMD isn't cleaning up in the laptop arena for the exact same reason Dell isn't selling systems with AMD CPUs.
Hell, I would love to have an AMD-based laptop, but unfortunately, I care about quality, and while AMD's CPUs themselves have proven themselves in the quality arena (one of the reasons I have only put AMD CPUs in my desktop machines for many years, and the only exceptions to that in the near future are going to be VIA-based Mini-ITX systems), none of the manufacturers that sell AMD-based laptops have. (They're all tiny no-namers that for the most part are selling junky cheapo laptops.)
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
AMD is not the "Good Guys". They are the underdog. There is a big difference. The reason you should want AMD to succeed is not to have an AMD monopoly, but because when you have two titans battling it out in the corporate arena, neither can afford to stomp on their own peasants.
If you think about it, who is the scraggler of the bunch in the CPU market? Sun. So, how can Sun get another chance? Bring down Intel. But how can Sun bring down Intel? Boost AMD. What has Sun been doing in their ads lately? "Opteron Rules" and etc. Sun likely has a bigger marketing budget than AMD for the Opteron CPUs. Since Dell competes with Sun and customers are now saying, "I hear the Opteron is a good CPU and I need one in my data center... guess I'll have to buy a Sun..."
It's forcing Dell to expand their product offering in order to remain competitive with Sun. This ads credibility to AMD and takes away some sales from Intel.
Sun would love for AMD to bite into Intel's profit margins because it's easier to take on a competitor with 40% market share than with 80% market share.
This is probably mindless rambling, and I likely have no clue what I'm talking about, but I see this as a win for Sun. Even if they don't get more sales, at least their marketing department can chalk up a win for moving the buzz off of Intel and onto AMD (who is one of their partners).
By the way, I really dislike seeing posts by AMD fan boys... who on earth swears allegiance to a CPU? I'm merely excited to see improved competition which should fuel innovation and drop prices. Yeah! I'll buy Intel or AMD or whatever that gives me the best performance for my $$$. I want a cheap fast computer and I don't care if it's powered by ephedrine doped hamsters (imagine the logo for that CPU!).
Dell has to be worried about two things (I would think).
/. crowd, but how much does it matter to the mainstream? How much does it matter to large corporations that Dell supplies desktops too?
1. Can AMD manufacture and supply enough processors to Dell and deliver them on the timetable that Dell requires. If you aren't familiar with Dell's manufacturing model, it's ridiculously efficient. It defines the standard of efficiency in the industry. However, in order to maintain that, Dell requires it suppliers to be able to meet some very specific and stiff guidelines. Can AMD meet those? Are they geared and prepared for it?
2. What kind of support costs is this going to entail? Now Dell will have to support more system configurations, more BIOS configurations, more diagnostic systems. Adding AMD as a processor to their mainstream systems would mean a serious amount of time and effort invested in revamping their support program to account for this.
Considering the above two concerns, is Dell going to really reap enough rewards from adding AMD as a processor choice to warrant the risk and expenditure? Yes, processor selection matters to the
I'm not convinced that adding AMD to their mainstream lines is the best business move for Dell. I am convinced however that adding AMD to their top of the line gaming systems and servers is a good idea.
Sheesh. This intarweb thing. No humor I tells ya. Leave out one :) or ;) and people think you're a troll.
"It's like saying that if my town stops filling petrol for a week, petrol prices are going to drop."
Which town is that? Chicago? Los Angeles? B^) (-- Smiley indicating a joke.)
- Jasen.
I miss Ogg the caveman, his posts where funny, and even created some impersonators.
They will only be based on AMD microprocessors. No one said anything about dropping the Intel Inside slogan as we maintain a healthy partnership with Intel.
We will continue to ship Intel Inside machines.
With Dell building AMD systems, I'll never have to build my PCs by hand again. The times sure are a-changin.
The original source of the "news" came from www.udn.com.tw
I have read that the translation emphasizes that Dell is *NOT* currently in AMD production, but only READYING for one. All that Dell is said to need to do is
say "Do it!"
Also heed recent Forbes AMD headlines FUD:
Intel's Paxville Could Slow AMD's Server Growth
Forbes - Nov 16, 2005
Intel Seen With 9-Month Lead On AMD On 65nm
Forbes - Nov 16, 2005
AMD's Gross, Operating Margins Could Shrink In 2006
Forbes - Nov 16, 2005
To-do List: Receive telemarketing call during a tornado warning. Check.
Dell on AMD...
Apple on Intel...
Linux on SPARC...
What's Next? MS on Motorola?...
SCO on PowerPC?...
Armageddon?
Why, oh why, didn't I take the Blue Pill?
See comment.
It would be strange to move from a situation where Intel sold most PC CPUs to an AMD world where Intel CPUs are mostly found.. on Apple Macs :)
This is bad, really bad for that matter. Let me explain why. I use to own some AMD stock when it was suppose to take off, it didn't, so I sold. It has since taken off! :( I also own Intel stock, it took off quite nicely and helped me make a down payment on my house 8 years back. I kept one share and have done a DRIP ever since. So it is quite clear, my lack of AMD stock and my clear conviction to Intel due to their far superior product (me owning their stock) is going to be hurt by Dell's bias against them. Man, should have held on to that AMD stock. On the upside, it looks like I will actually be able to run the new Vista server products when they come out now that I will be able to have a stable 64 bit platform. Damn those opterons!!!!
Would be nice if about 1M potential customers called them trying to order AMD based systems with Dell backing, and then gave them heck for only supporting an inferior processor instead.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
...at least where this sale is concerned. I already bought my HP Pavilion (w/ Athlon64) and am happy as a clam with it.
Requisition parkas, hellboys! Hell hath frozen over. I await the goods from his all mightly, Satan, our dark lord and saviour.
In other news:
Microsoft releases office for Linux
SCO admits they have no case
Pigs seen flying in rural areas
meh
Well, I build and run my home systems and they're all AMD. At work, I can get anything, but most people buy Dell's (Higher Ed discounts). I need a new computer at work and would prefer a dual core AMD -- who makes solid, quiet systems at a resonable cost?
I work for a small ISV that resells Dell systems. I have seen a serious decline in the quality of the new systems that we receive. Two of twelve new Dell Precision 380s we received last week have died. One from a failed Seagate drive and the other due to a bad motherboard. We are in a rural area and pay handsomely for next business day service. The drive was no problem unless you consider that the replacement that I received was refurbished and I had to reinstall the OS. I got a call from the contract service provider the day that the motherboard was supposed to be replaced (Friday) saying that they couldn't make it until the following business day. When I reported this to Dell the call was supposedly escalated but I never received a call back and now the repair is scheduled for tomorrow instead of today. So I guess they showed me who was boss. What they don't know is that I'm going to start evaluating HP and other venders for our future systems.
Bah!
Whatever happened to, er, his 'micro' and 'soft' ?
Manly love? Whetever the fuck is that??
OK, now let me hear those whooshing sounds!!