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Free Wi-fi Prompts BellSouth to Withdraw Donation
turbosaab writes "Shortly after learning of the New Orleans plan for free city-wide wireless internet, Bellsouth Corp. withdrew an offer to donate a damaged building to be used for police headquarters. According to the Washington Post, 'Bill Oliver, angrily rescinded the offer of the building in a conversation with New Orleans homeland security director Terry Ebbert.'"
They may as well just strangle puppies in front of orphans. I'll never use thier services.
In Soviet Russia, backwards is everything.
Going back on their offer will make them look super-evil. Even worse than if they had not made the offer at all. Personally, I feel for them. There are pleanty of reasons they should be upset about the city-wide free wifi.
Required reading for internet skeptics
Are they being jackasses and withdrawing their offer because they're not being used for the wifi or because they think if they city can afford wifi they can afford to buy the building from them? Either way, this is a seriously stupid PR move.
Jack Thompson, is that you *AGAIN*?!
Which is basically, nada. It was all about what they could get out of it (good PR in this case). And as soon as it looked like New Orleans was going to do something that would make it harder for them to profit, poof goes the offer.
Need a Python, C++, Unix, Linux develop
Should we be surprised? It sure seems like a lot of big companies are having irrational knee-jerk reactions to a lot of things lately... I can see why they wouldn't be happy, but to "angrily" rescind a charitable offer to a pretty beaten up city that needs anything it can get? Sounds like a bad PR event for BellSouth.
The article states that the Internet service is in response to hurricane Katrina, in an attempt to help speed recovery efforts. I can understand why BellSouth would be upset about this, being a taxpayer funded competition, but taking back your offer of a building to help rebuild the local law enforcement of a destroyed city. . . thats just a dick thing to do, shame on you BellSouth.
If you are about to mod me down, keep in mind that this post was most likely sarcastic.
It's not like Louisiana has a sterling reputation for honesty and integrity in political dealings. I bet BellSouth was offering the building for "free" in the first place for some sort of inside deal in service or reconstruction.
Then the city government starts talking about taking away the local broadband market, and you betcha that building suddenly has "issues needing to be worked through". Wink wink.
Light a fire for a man and he'll be warm for a day. Light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
They pulled a donation because New Orleans is trying to rebuild it's shattered infrastructure? Asinine.
That's just crappy. Really.
Why do other countries have 25 mbit connections with cable for $20 a month and in the US we can't give a 512 kbit line for free while the city is a complete mess. And they can't provide more than 128 kbit after the city gets back to normal.
Not that anyone could use the wifi very much without power anyway, but thats another story.
RIAA + Sony = Rootkit of all Evil
Uhhhh... nope.
I'm not one to side with a "greedy" corperation, but this seems like a knee-jerk typical "stir the pot" title to me.
Half way down the article, an actual source (Jeff Battcher) from Bell South is quoted as saying that they are suprised that the city officials would claim this, as they are still working out the terms of the building, and that the offer is still on the table.
On the other hand, the article claims that "city officials", no specific source, claims that Bell South is withdrawing the offer. Seems kind of fishy to me. As usual, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
Maybe the NOLA Police should also withdraw their civil protection of Bell South HQ in the city.
sig my booty, check my website
What makes you think BellSouth, a company that sells television programming, is such a big supporter of Republicans? Aren't the media leftists?
I saw Duane Ackerman (CEO of BellSouth) kicking a kitten last week.
Let me get this straight: A company donates a damaged building that may cost millions to repair to be the headquarters of the most corrupt police department in the US, and then renigs when told that the city has plans to gut their DSL monopoly with free Wi-Fi?
Is that the story?
Seem to me that everyone wins.
The city isn't stuck pay to rehab a wrecked building, the cops, lacking a HQ, wouldn't be as efficient at coluding to be corrupt, a monopoly gets shafted, then outs themselves as greedy bastards, and the citizens get free WiFi!
What's the downside here?
HexaByte - he's a square and a half!
Why, because anyone who does anything remotely bad, is a republican..
In response to your questions: Yes and Hahahahaha *cough* No.
The thing about New Orleans is that they're basically starting from scratch in large parts of the city. They have to lay out new power and communications lines through large areas, and the incremental cost of an additional few strands of glass is nothing. They have to rebuild all of the traffic lights, street lights, etc. The real incremental cost of adding the infrastructure for the city-wide wifi is insignificant, and the other work needs to be done.
It has the benefit of getting people (and businesses) to come back. People that live there pay taxes. People that don't live there don't, at least not to the city. The city needs the tax base. I'm betting that someone pulled some numbers out of their arse, threw it in a spreadsheet, and showed a net fiscal gain for the city to install free wireless. Hell, they might even be right.
The key here is that it's nowhere near as expensive to install something like this for New Orleans as it would be for an undamaged city, perversely enough... just because of how much rebuilding will need to be done anyway. Best to rebuild it right.
-30-
they can afford a city-wide wi-fi but they can't afford a new building for police hq?
Bell South is the most selfish telco out there. I havent heard of these guys doing anything good for a long time. They are evil. This doesnt surprise me at ALL. They have a terrible PR department.
Wow, did I just see the guy saying "Mod the troll down" get nailed faster than the actual troll? That's always worth a laugh.
"Yes, I know the "MOD THE TROLL DOWN!" thing is a crapflood, but still.
Wondering... Has there even been anything good said about BellSouth?
This has 'backfire' written all over it.
BellSouth also loves to heap questionable charges on your bill. They charge $80 to transfer your number if you move, even though it takes all of five minutes and is done without the operator getting out of her chair.
When I moved from Atlanta, I canceled my BellSouth service. Three years later I got calls from debt collectors demanding payment for several months of service after I canceled it. I basically told them to fuck off, and never heard from them again. If they try to garnish my wages, I swear to God, I'll fly a jet into the BellSouth tower...
WTF. Ok there are a few things on my mind. Perhaps I'm not fully understanding things but let me explain anyways. What the fuck is wrong with companies in America? I here stories of Verizon disabling bluetooth, ISPs fighting city-wide wireless, etc. I don't understand what companies are afraid of by progress. You guys are gonna be left in the dust by other nations that aren't so narrowly focused on money, but rather take progress as a goal. Apparently not in the USA. So BellSouth goes and pulls a stunt like this making them look like total jerks. Way to go. Can someone please explain what their motive would be for pulling a stunt like this?
I know this isn't new, but it shouldn't stop raising eyebrows. Security is now Homeland Security. Prisoners are now labelled detainees or enemy combatants (to circumvent their legal rights). Newspeak anyone?
Of course, everyone is all for rebuilding New Orleans. How could anyone, aside from a cold-blooded sociopath, be against it? But if you discovered that the government's idea of "rebuilding" is to turn a major part of your business into a government-owned monopoly -- and not only that, but they expected you to help them with this plan -- well, I think you'd be a bit miffed, too. I know that New Orleans' stated motive for "free" (TANSTAAFL) municipal WiFi is to stimulate business, but showing a penchant for nationalizing industries isn't exactly a great way to say, "Hey, Mr. CEO, bring your business to New Orleans!"
Cheers,
IT
Power corrupts. PowerPoint corrupts absolutely.
Seems to be that way.I beleive alot of truths will be coming out soon cant wait for Libby to be found guilty so they can go after the bigger fish {Cheney & Bush} and some Haliburton infromation is due out later this month by the Pentagon about more questionable accounting practices by Haliburton.And oh yea who can forget last weeks California Republican Congressman stepping down after addmitting to taking millions in bribes.Also the republican lobbiest who got a 100 million dollar contract to translate American Propaganda intro Arabic and oh yea the CIA secret prisons I could on and on but come on this aint Americans doing this but Republicans who were able to buy votes with there families money.Ask yourself this why would someone spend 100 million dollars to run for an office that only pays $400,000 a year and only lasts 4 years? I tell you the rest later but I think your a smart guy and can figure out the answer on your own.
After all, what's the point of a charitable act without a solid profit motive?
I've been a customer of Bell$outh, $BC and a few others.
It is my opinion that Bell$outh is actually worse than $BC, which is hard to believe.
I try my darnest to Not do business with either one of them (home & work). I actually prefer to pay more from a different provider just to incite competition and avoid those clowns.
There is No innovation from these Bozos. Missed the boat on VOIP. I mean look at Verizon they're working on fiber to the curb. Any how long are we going to have to pay a surchare for touch tone service? What a joke and rip-off.
I hate their support (1st level outsource). Here's a little secret when calling either one of these guys, if you select that it is a new install for DSLs (even though it is not) you always get US based personnel. T's, Frames, etc are not outsourced in my experience. But last time I had a Frame problem, it took hours to find anyone who even knew what Frame Relay was at $BC (actually I never did find anyone at $BC, pathetic).
Hate to say it, but I long for the day when both of these companies are out of business.
Who will guard the guards?
Doesnt the city of New Orleans have bigger issues right now. Seems to me that they should be worrying about rebuiding their city, instead of offering free wi-fi in the first place.
I guess Terry Ebbert doesn't know how to take a bribe!?!?!
just because your a schizophrenic doesn't mean people arn't really out to get you
Really? Wow, so does my jeep o.O
If you like what I've said here, and want to read more, go to http://www.krillrblog.com
Yeah, where's my goddamn free WiFi?
and that, ladies and gents, is the spirit of giving... [comment written sarcastically, of course]
-- and if life has failed you leave the cross you're nailed to
All I can say is this is really amazing. It's the rare incident like this that for just a single moment really throws all the PR BS down and bares open the very core of the soul of a corporation for all to see, what they're really about, and what really motivates them into doing and not doing the things they do and don't do.
Only Women Bleed (Sex, Sharia remix)
This is ridiculous. What do they feel threatened by? Sure, citywide wi-fi might cause the loss of some customers, but it could have gained them many more. Does BellSouth have any idea what happened when coffee shops with free wi-fi started popping up in my neighborhood? I ordered DSL! After I had a taste of broadband, I realized I wasn't going to sit in a coffee shop all day long but and I no longer wanted to be limited by dialup in my own home any more so I decided to pay for it. Because it is unlikely a free wi-fi network's quality of service will match the quality of service of my own line running into my home. BellSouth could have used the citywide free wi-fi as a "gateway drug" to selling their own broadband service, but it looks like they just blew the opportunity. Boneheads.
That the government can offer a better service for free... with the kind of service I have gotten out of US telco's I can see why they can't sell their product. No one complains that we don't have private roads. Maybe internet service needs to be free. It is certainly becoming necessary to normal cultural development. So what happens is the government provides basic access and if you want faster then you pay. That will certainly put pressure on the market to fix the current state of insanity that is US internet services.
I'm in bellsouth territory and its the worst run of toe "baby" bells. Its DSL is twice the price of verizon and sbc. They aren't planning on any sort of fiber to the home or to the curb program. They aren't really moving very fast on Wimax either. I'm jelous of those places that have phone companies with fiber and are getting faster speeds and better offerings due to competition.
I can't believe that they would do that, that is unacceptable. Jerks.
Consider events from the viewpoint of the corporation you just maligned. Fairly or not, BellSouth offered a damaged building and in return, the government launched a taxpayer-funded program directly competing with BellSouth. In simpler terms, BellSouth was stabbed in the back. Given the action of the government, BellSouth's reaction is, although not exactly nice, is at least understandable on some level.
Withdrawing the property was indeed petty. And as for "coldest, worst thing" a company has ever done, surely that's hyperbole. Japanese corporations used American POWs as slave labor during World War II. Whether they were justified in any way, shape, or form or not is irrelevant - slave labor is worse than calling "backsies." on a ruined piece of real estate that could be taken with eminent domain anyways.
As for "M$ is the spawn of evil" - do you truly believe that when you have a hotmail address? Besides, whether Microsoft is "evil" or not is irrelevant - they had nothing to do with BellSouth recinding their offer. Come to think of it, neither did Sony, nor their rootkit. Unless you are implying that all corporations are evil - which is something else entirely.
DATABASE WOW WOW
So how long before the city declares the building blighted and takes it anyway via eminent domain?
i am a soviet space shuttle
According to a letter that thatCon Rice recently sent us, the residents of NewOrleans will be better served with faster internet ccess rather than a replacement chapterhouse for the KKK.
Nothing personal, it's just business.
You're "right on the money." When you have to put in basic infrastructure, either because it was destroyed or because it never existed, why limit yourself to the old ways of doing things?
We can compare rebuilding New Orleans to building infrastructure in the "developing world"; e.g. free wireless is an incredible force multiplier. How much would a small business give not to have to worry about web connectivity? My guess is: a lot!
--- Attorneys Assisting Citizen-Soldiers & Families -
Whether this story is 100% accurate or not, it raises an important point for anybody in business. Do Not Burn Bridges. The guy you just called an asshole on the phone might be in a position to do you an important favor six months from now. Or not. Everybody has feelings, and some people have long memories and will delight in punishing or rewarding you for some little thing from the past.
If the New Orleans city planners are thinking of setting up free WiFi, they certainly aren't going to change their minds and go begging Bell South to please let them use that building. If anything it will just make the city officials less inclined to listen to the offers [cough-bribes-cough] Bell South is probably right now trying to think up to convince them to rethink the thing.
You have to pay for DTMF?
And I thought Telstra was bad. They do some crappy things but not this.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
FIRST POST.. finally. (uh, nope)
Anyway, New Orleans is unlivable anyway. (uh, nope again)
This is global warming, kids. (Strike 3. thanks for playing.....dumbass)
The city is making a good decision by offering wifi service, but they also need to recognize that it'll make them some enemies.
It looks like we have another corporation here asking for a spanking.
Now, what can we do to bring down their revenue? Hmmmm...
Steve Magruder, Metro Foodist
The downside is that their "free" WiFi will be paid for by us lucky US taxpayers.
Yeah, just like their "free" roads and "free" levees. Yay for private ownership of all public infrastructure!
iSKUNK!
I live in Louisiana, though I am not originally from here. The comments about the corruption in this State are not fair. The Feds want to deny us reasonable help, on the basis of such slander. Slashdot should be able to do better. Bellsouth are not exactly the most ethical company, especially when their monopolies are challenged. I refuse to do business with them, since before the Hurricanes. They seem to be acting badly again, so boycott them. However, please do not slander Louisiana. Remember, most of the 'hurricane relief' around here has been done by regular people helping others. The Feds have been useless. In a town a bit North of where I live a shelter had 3000 people in it at one point, with no government aid whatsoever. It was entirely supported by donations by locals. In the town of Lafayette, where I live, Bellsouth is fighting the local, city owned, utility system, because it wants to lay fiber to every home. The utility will do a better and cheaper job than Bellsouth, so Bellsouth are upset. So, feel free to be mean about Bellsouth, but do not slader Louisiana, unless you know what you are talking about. We are down, but do not deserve to be kicked. Kick Bellsouth and the moron in the Whitehouse and his useless cronies instead.
Bah, Piss on bellsouth.
Enjoy Every Sandwich
Given that the New Orleans police have generally impeded relief efforts and have threatened to throw some relief workers into the river, perhaps people in New Orleans would be better off without a new building for the police. The pigs could always do their work at Cafe Du Mond. It's kind of like a doughbut shop, isn't it?
Any how long are we going to have to pay a surchare for touch tone service?
I fixed that problem myself. I put a rotary dial phone in and used it. When they updated the equipment, they asked when I would upgrade to touchtone. I knew legacy support cost them. I told them when it doesn't cost more. They dropped the charge and I switched over to DTMF. (this was quite a few years ago. Call them and ask why DTMF support costs extra. Don't take the it cost's more excuse. Point out the fact rotary support after their upgrade now costs more. They would save if you dropped rotary for DTMF. Ask them how much legacy dial support costs them.
The truth shall set you free!
BellSouth's push is for DSL, not WiFi. One gives you a reasonably reliable, dedicated line, while the other gives you mobility at the cost of reliability and speed. If BellSouth were actually building WiFi towers, you might have a case.
Absent a contract, BellSouth has zero right to order particular behavior from another entity. Abusing their market position like that is one of the criteria of an illegal monopoly. Micro$haft got busted for doing that to some of their OEM's.
IANAL.. But I do know that Louisiana is under the "Napoleonic Code", which is slightly different than the (constitutions?) that most states follow. C'est la vie...
Not sure if this stops the "estoppel" idea or not.
Or good old SB will take away the internets!
Stay classy BellSouth
the ability to watch everything and not have a warrent?
what about when the inevitable happens and it's hacked?
free public wireless internet (fpwi) might be ok for the masses, but no business should depend on it.
Enjoy Every Sandwich
9. ???????
10. PROFIT!!! (No, really!)
All comments are properties and trademarks of the voices in my head. Not like I'm gonna claim them.
the individual people on the inside are decent enough but the higher-ups and board _really_ sucks. I guess we really shouldn't be very suprised since they are after all a telephone company. I feel obligated to tell everyone that telephone companies are second to only the recording industry in their desperation to hold on to a dying business model and spite their customers at every turn because of it.
Honestly, if I were a phone company, I'd seek emotional therapy.
I just wasted your mod points! HA!
Well, this really doesn't change my opinion of them much.
Pretty Pictures!
They are being incredibly stupid. First, these will need a backbone to support them. They could easily have won the contract. In addition, as part of that, they could then insist on 11B, rather than 11G. That means that each site gets at most 5.5 megs (just let one or two leechs on that) . Then limit how much bandwidth leaves the city for the free hook ups. With the city covered by "free wifi", it would have taken out any real compitition from WIFI providers.
At first, this network would be used for intercity comm. As time went on, more ppl would head out to the net. In addition, as ppl came back and brought their own radios, there would be interference. So if end users want any real speed, they would have to pay for it. At first, it may be a higher speed access to the Internet (priority/total bandwidth), but it may also mean a DSL line. Finally, they could have instisted that Ray do a few ads for them saying that BS helped NO get back on their feet. Now, Ray will be talking, but it will be about somebody else and negative towards BS.
Man, these monopolies know how to shoot themselves in the foot.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
This isn't true. You can set yourself to be No Pic (10x1) for Long Distance. 10x1 means your calls are routed by which ever carriers equipment pics it up first, and isn't preset so they don't even guarantee you can make an LD call. The ILEC/CLEC can charge a one time Fee to change your pic, but they cannot charge you for having it set to 10x1 nor can they charge any surcharges like the National Access Fee.
What they are probably charging you for is a Toll Restriction, which is usually extremely high, that costs about 2 - 10 dollars per month. It is an optional service and you can have it removed from your bill, unless you are receiving a handful of government benefits that require a toll restriction, in which-case, you be reimbursed for it anyway.
I doubt they have a monopoly in damaged estate in New Orleans.
Next: Bill Oliver has been removed from his job as head of Bell South's Public Relations department.
xkcd.com - a webcomic of mathematics, love, and language.
Maybe I'm just completely "out of the loop" so to speak, but I really can't understand how all these cities can A) justify and B) afford to offer all this free wireless internet access. Being devil's advocate here, and ignoring the fact that BellSouth may be a corporation that everyone loves to hate, how is it allowable for a city government to basically destroy the market for local Internet access? I mean, aren't the people who say it's illegal government competition basically correct? It does take away any motive to pay for Internet access, right?
And how can they afford the infrastructure necessary to provide wi-fi in the first place? Honest questions here, this particular aspect of Internet history has been bewildering me for many months now. I guess I just haven't read enough about it. Anyone with a better handle on this phenomenon care to comment?
I guess the last question would be, why are they doing it? Why aren't these places just relying on the open market to provide Internet access? (Let's ignore New Orleans for the moment.) Is it just to attract businesses and people to the area? What is the main purpose of a city going through all the trouble and expense of offering free wi-fi? What is the benefit to the city as a whole? I just don't get it.
Any insights would be appreciated.
Ray Nagin worked for cox communications
And... just guess who got that wifi contract?
This is how the world works, folks. It may not be right...
Spoon not. Fork, or fork not. There is no spoon.
these guys have to keep their spending to a minimum since thier revenue sources will dry up in less then five years.
hoorah!
I love this shit, I really do. IANAL either... but I am a law student in Louisiana. I think it's fun that even somewhat-informed folks think of this state as a bit of another country.
For the record: Parts of Louisiana law are indeed derived from the various French civil codes, mostly the "private" law: sales, successions, family/divorce, etc. In those areas, Louisiana is (somewhat) a "civil law" state. Other parts, notably the criminal law, are virtually identical to the systems of other, "common law" states. Yes, Louisiana does have a constitution (in English), and no, it does not mention alligators.
Now, as for the grandparent: the more modern, and more general, name for reliance-based estoppel is "detrimental reliance," which explains what's going on a little more clearly. Yes, the doctrine (probably!) would be applied in Louisiana as in other states: as the Wikipedia article points out, estoppel is a creation of courts sitting in equity, not of the common law per se.
However, in this or in any other state, a relying party generally should only recover its loss incurred by reliance, not the entire thing promised.
If the city of New Orleans spent, say, $10,000 in preparation for taking over the offered building, should the city get its $10,000 back... or should it get the entire building (presumably worth much more)? I don't know any of the details about this building deal, but simple equity tells me BellSouth shouldn't be liable for more than the city lost, if anything, in reliance on their promise.
Obligatory disclaimer: I am not a lawyer and the above is not legal advice to anyone.
They don't want you to have Free-WiFi because once you have it, you won't want to pay for it.
These companies see WiFi as another service they can charge you for, and all of those free hotspots spoils them a future revenue source.
They're scared of the future, because the communication services are getting cheaper and cheaper. You don't have to spend that much bandwidth just to do voice communication, with all those bandwidth potential being laid over the planet it will be so cheap to do voice that some company might decide they can afford to give it away, for free, just for the sake of publicity. And once one company had done it, every other will have to do the same.
Imagine a "free" cellphone network, where you just have to pay for the phone device. If whe switch over to VoIP this can be a reality... And of course if you're using a 100% digital network you just could offer free internet as well, only with a limited bandwidth.
And I picture this for countries that have a private telecommunications network, on countries where the teles are owned by the governament this can happen even sooner.
---- You know how some doctors have the Messiah complex - they need to save the world? You've got the "Rubik's" complex
Let's file this one as a perfect example of the corporatocracy at work. When someone asks "how can you say we live in a corporatocracy where companies tell government what to do?" you can use this example to say "usually they do, however there was this example where New Orleans had the balls to tell BellSouth they were going to have municipal wifi regardless of how it damages BellSouth's profits."
Well done, NO.
I don't understand why everyone is for government getting into the telecommunications business. By doing this drives taxes up, causes bigger government and makes new orleans even more of a welfare state to support their network. The last thing this city needs is more government programs, especially if they already have a corporation that is capable of handling the project. This is a good time for the small independent firms to also get in on this action because nothing is established and the playing field is open.
I personally applaud bell south for what they have done. If you look at England as a model of the way this is heading, they used to own a ton of companies in the 70s and 80s and was more of a socialist environment. What happened? Rampant waste, deadlines missed, sky high taxes and an overall stagnate economy. In the 90's they began privatizing these corporations and they became profitable and well run. No more taxes being dumped into these wasteful programs.
Overall, New Orleans needs to get out and help themselves to rebuild, not just accept welfare from everyone. It is how the economy works. For every dollar they borrow to rebuild, their economy grows, money circulates, goods are bought and employement is realized. Maybe one day it will not be one of the poorest cities in the nation. The hurricane could actually be the force that drives it to become financially independent, but not with wasteful government overhead.
There, I said it.
Game... blouses.
Don't think this would apply. If NO demolished everything else, hoping to use this building, then maybe. But otherwise they are free to rethink their offer.
There are many, many cases of services that are answerable to and funded by a state and that are not subject to this kind of selective provision. Examples in the UK include the BBC and the NHS.
The way it works is that these services are managed not directly by politicians themselves, but by civil servants who are ultimately accountable to politicians, who are then ultimately accountable to the electorate. Because there is a public commitment that these services will be universally provided, and that no one can be excluded from them, there would be a public outcry if that were to happen, and that is why it doesn't happen. Governments work very well when the people do their job of holding governments accountable. It is mainly when people in government realise they will not be held accountable (for example, by an electorate which sees it as their 'patriotic duty' to support government policy whatever it may be) that government fails.
I imagine with wifi it would be quite easy to make a commitment not to exclude anyone. All you really have to do is allow anyone to access the network anonymously. If you're worried about government backtracking on this, well then it can be written into law which makes it harder for politicians to change, the same way the BBC charter is written into law.
and you ask why people might hesitate to move back to such a paradise and help rebuild New Orleans? This is just one reflection of the corrupt culture glorified in the south that makes people want to leave for more hospitable climates eventually when they get some sense.
And I'm not just talking about temperature here. I'm happy to live in the cold efficiency of the northern parts of this country. Even though strangers may not be friendly or "charming" to you, they generally do their jobs without the underlying whiff of corruption that in my mind permeates the south -- where getting something done (or getting in or out of trouble) seems to depend on how well you know the local sheriff.
My feeling is, the quicker people realize why New Orleans won't get rebuilt, the better. Maybe people living in the South will learn a lesson and clean up their governments/towns/sense of what's to be tolerated in a civilization.
Mod parent funny then mod me down :P
The AACS key is NOT 0xF606EEFD628B1CA427BEA93A9CA9773F
The moment the city goes live, they'll be shut down by the Federal Gov't because it is ILLEGAL for the government (federal or local) to compete with private enterprise.
At least now we have a solid, public example of what everyone's always complaining about--rampant corporate greed and strongarming. And as an added benefit, it's in a form that is easily recognizable to just about anyone. It has no complicated economic underpinning. It's just plain old jerkoff.
"the ability to watch everything and not have a warrent?"
Ever heard of the Patriot Act?
Wow they offered a building; that's fantastic!
Did everyone and his dog do this? Nope, I don't think so. They may have changed their mind (but that's not even clear). Anyway, it's not something to give them a kicking about. If you attack people who are doing good things then you discourage people from helping.
Actually, attacking them is even worse because if you read the article you'll see that it's not clear-cut that they reneged on the offer. They certainly dispute the headline.
Thank you BellSouth for trying to help people who need help. We apologise for the behaviour of a minority on this site.
We came from los angeles and moved to miami. Their rates are pretty expensive and you're right they're pricing themselves out of business. With all the transplants moving into florida now alot of companies are going to have to deal with rising expectations as people move in from states where things are more competant. One nitpick: he called it "the dirty south", I want to see him come to miami beach and tell me its "the dirty south".
http://www.livejournal.com/users/cixel
One of the worst disasters in our country's history, and all those bastards can think of is "hmm, let's not give them the building, 'cause now we have competition and we want their money". Only in America.
Creative misinterpretation is your friend.
... at least $500,000 for Katrina relief, and is matching employee contributions up to $1 million. I have not great love for the company, but all this demonizing gets old after awhile.
i d=290&print
http://www.us.playstation.com/PressReleases.aspx?
So what you are basically suggesting is to hold out police resources in an attempt to force a company to "voluntarily" give their private property to the state. Thats a tad bit scary of a concept. Think where it would lead. "Whats that Mr. Jones? You don't feel like giving $20 to the policeman's ball? Well thats ok. Oh, you know what? I just remembered I can't help you report that guy who just mugged you, I have to help someone else who would donate his $20. Good luck if he comes back again, maybe you can fight him off with a stick."
Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.
Yeah, so hardware and infrastructure costs money. That's kind of part of my point. I'm still not understanding how it helps the communications company to give away their services for free after they paid millions for the hardware. How does "finding out who uses what and where" help them make money when your service is free? That is what companies do, after all, right? Sell a product or service to make money? Free stuff doesn't usually bring a lot of money in.
1. Give away service for free
2. ???
3. Profit! (or some other benefit, if we're talking about a city government)
Hope someone can bridge that gap for me. I'm not a total idiot, I swear, but the answer to when free turns into money isn't really popping out for me. That's why this whole concept of "free wifi" for an entire city is still baffling me a bit.
Since when are businesses in the business of charity?
The business of business is business, not giving money away.
Is Capitalism Good for the Poor?
Another typical slashdot article. Not many facts, someone is crying at some big corporation. More flamebait.
Why don't you wait until BellSouth says this is true, instead of "We've been working for over two months on this building . . . we are a little surprised by these comments."
All it takes is a SLANT given by the POSTER on slashdot, and the mindless flaming begins.
I could have posted this article as "City worried about WiFi as many residents are still without power."
Then you could have flamed New Orleans politcal leaders.
Doesn't the slashdot community tired of flaming random corporations?
Typical example of a company taking their ball and going home.
Clearly uncovers their true intentions, the donation of the building had nothing to do with charity, it was only about making more money in the end. Not that the act is surprising, just the transparency of the act.
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
fricken use it anyway.. it's an ongoing emergency..
hell get FEMA to giftwrap it..
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
I think Bell south is in the right here. Think about this. As in the Everybody loves Raymond episode, you give money to your brother because he has hit hard times. He then promptly books a vacation to Vegas. I'd be pissed. That money was for bills to help him along until he could stand on his own.
Same situation here. Bell south gives a building because New Orleans needs help. New Orleans then announces a free wifi network for the whole city. This is not a need, will take a lot of money, and will be taking directly from Bell south's business.
Sucky.
This sort of thing sounds like what a child would do.
Maybe I'm just completely "out of the loop" so to speak, but I really can't understand how all these cities can A) justify and B) afford to offer all this free wireless internet access.
In my city at least (we have had free 802.11g WiFi over large swaths of the city for two years now, and they are constantly expanding it), it is easy to justify.
As well, the city leases out the high speed fibre ring to companies, since they can do it cheaper than the local ISPs in many situations. Last I heard, the city was very well into the black on the whole project, it is far from a money-losing thing.
Being devil's advocate here ... how is it allowable for a city government to basically destroy the market for local Internet access? I mean, aren't the people who say it's illegal government competition basically correct? It does take away any motive to pay for Internet access, right?
Wrong. No company is going to depend on public WiFi for it's internet backbone. For one, performance is suceptible to the weather, and also the number of people on the local node. As well, it is inherently not as secure as a landline (since the access is free and public, there is no WEP involved). Also, anyone who is security conscious would not use it even for their day-to-day use.
But it is great for surfing the web, or doing company business over a VPN. Personally, I love it. And since it actually *makes* the city money, thus lowering my tax burden, I love it even more.
It is assinine to rebuild New Orleans in it's current location. It's stupid to rebild a coastal city that is already mostly below sea level, is still sinking, and has a haywired dike system. Restore the areas that did not flood and use them as tourist areas. Build parks and wetlands in the parts of the city that are under sealevel or are prone to flooding and restore the wetlands around New Orleans.
Well everyone knows that profits are far more important than rebuilding a city devastated by a natural disaster, and certainly more important than helping out local law enforcement. I mean come on whats wrong with all these people here? Can't they see that making a dollar is preferable to being human?
Free net, free water, free sewer, free electric, free everything...
In the South, it's often cheaper to just switch to 100% cellphone.
You don't have that option if you're a BitTorrent user where I live. Here are the sum and total of my alternatives to BellSouth DSL:
Cox or ComCast cable -- Welcome to the world of bandwidth caps and termination for 24/7 usage!
Earthlink DSL -- You still have to pay for phone service (at those same wonderful "competitive" rate, only now your DSL is $10-15 more expensive because BellSouth users get a discount.
Satellite -- This is NOT an option for people who actually share their torrents.
Dial-up -- This is NOT an option for people who do anything with torrents.
I'm looking right now into the costs of a UMTS cellular modem but it's looking to be too much. If Cingular doesn't do bandwidth capping, it might be the only broadband alternative for BitTorrent users (though a bit more expensive for unlimited access). Of course, I'm just waiting for Cingular to turn evil since it's the joint venture of BellSouth and SBC, the two biggest jackasses among the Baby Bells right now.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
...and a completely different animal when it's offered and then recinded for most reasons imagineable or possible.
"Well then, I guess I'll take my ball and go home now..."
Instead of figuring a way to work their business position out in the context of a legitimate offering by the government, they opt to act like spoiled brats.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
Then I realised, why of course, this is New Orleans, they expect the Federal Govt to pay for all their important infrastructure, and they can waste their own money however they like.
It would seem that the solution is right before everyone's eyes on public WiFi. Why couldn't there be limited speeds on the WiFi, tempting customers to move to land-based Internet for more speed? Frankly, this is probably already the case. How fast with N.O. WiFi be anyway? Just a thought.
And New Orleans was also talking to turning over the service once things are largely done over to a commercial entity instead of maintaining it themselves- BellSouth just did themselves out of a possible nice broadband services offering (because I sure as hell wouldn't list them as one of the businesses slated for the taking over phase of things...).
Idiots, they're so damn greedy that they're willing to cut their nose off to spite their face.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
To those of your who think that "free" city WIFI will cause Bellsouth to run out of business...you are sadly mistaken. WHO do you think own the internet pipes anyway??? This would NEVER happen in the United States today. I have had this debate plenty of times. If you want change, then push for a government-owned communications network. Good luck on that one too...
I can't believe this shit! You got modded up for an identical comment in that other story too. What's Slashdot coming to when people can just cut and paste their posts and get mod points.
"simple equity tells me BellSouth shouldn't be liable for more than the city lost, if anything, in reliance on their promise."
But what about opportunity cost? Good luck putting a price on that.
Let's consider a typical promisory estoppel case (patron promises to pay a student's tuition, then refuses when it's due)... The student hasn't actually lost any money when the patron renegs on his promise. But she lost the opportunity to apply to a cheaper college that year, one that she would have gone to had the patron not promised anything. Thanks to the patron's promise, she will now spend a year idle before she can apply again. He basically cost her a year of her life. How do you put a price on that? That's why the patron is usually forced to fulfill his promise.
Same with New Orleans. They may have stopped searching for other buildings when BellSouth made their promise (depends on how binding BellSouth's promise was). They have lost the opportunity to move the police in a timely fashion. What is the direct cost to the government? Huge. And the indirect cost to the citizens? Even larger.
I'll say it again, this is no surprise to anyone who has worked for or with them. This is the perfect example of management mindset at Bellsouth. I know I'm painting them with a broad brush, but 90% of Bell management I've met are *just like this*.
Jaysyn
There is a war going on for your mind.
Whats sad is, the way our country is, more than likely, they will get to bid and will win it. Then they keep thier 250,000 sq ft building and overcharge the city for the access points so they can "get back" the revenue they "lost" while the city was running things.
"Don't mess with him, he taunts the happy fun ball."
This is just like when Burger King and Safeway canceled their aid after learning that food was being distributed for free to New Orleans residents in the wake of the disaster.
Seriously though, the city probably has the right to just take the building from BellSouth anyway- if you can kick people off their land to build a mall or a stadium no one is going to raise an eyebrow if you eminent domain a building to help maintain law and order in the city. It is just better PR if everyone is happy about it.
This is pretty bad, although the reputation of the New Orleans police was tarnished a bit in the disaster. Can you imagine the shitstorm if the building was going to go to firefighters and BellSouth reneged on that?
If Bell South offered this building in the expectation of favorable treatment, this looks like a bribe. Last time I looked, it's illegal to bribe a public official (especially a police force). If I were the DA for New Orleans, I'd go straight ahead and prosecute.
What a dumb move by Bell South!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
They didn't ruin their chance to gain from the free Wi-fi. BellSouth will still be there once the system is in place. And, it's unlikely many will hear about this brief PR-damaging issue.
I've been looking around, good ol' Google, and digg.com and all that. So far, the only source I find for this story is that one Washington Post article. I think the Post is a valid news source, but it would be nice to have more sources to back this story up because I think it's important.
Anyone out there got more sources?
Furry cows moo and decompress.
LA's Napoleanic Code-based legal system is completely insane anyhow. The city could just as easily seize the building in question, claim right to use without right to ownership, and not have to pay a dime for it. That's actually how NO plans to quarter a lot of their police (in individual homes).
Bellsouth made two mistakes: making such an offer in the first place and then picking a bad time to go back on it .
The correct time to angrily rescind the offer was the day when that video broke of the New Orleans police beating that old man and threatening bystanders.
I think they offered the wrong building too quickly. This building has the BS exec's new HD plasma screens that were collected by one of the BS minions from the local electronics store during the great flood. The free WiFi was just a good scapegoat for retracting their offer.
Seems like BellSouth told NO that if they had money for wifi they obviously had enough money to have a police station - taking their building and their market is kinda double dipping.
/. convention) they might have a point. Bread first, circuses later.
Have to say that on a priorities basis and given the dubious state of the NOPD right now, I think (though it may not be the
Alright, after reading through a lot of the comments on here, the vast majority of which are angry at BellSouth, I'm going to fall on my sword here and come out in favor of them.
Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to say that what they did is the nice thing to do, and I have absolutely no experience with their services - I live in Boston. But when you're donating something to somebody (or in this case, some city), you don't expect them to turn around and stab you in the back. And that's exactly what New Orleans has done. Internet access is a huge revenue stream for telecommunications companies, obviously, and New Orleans has just circumvented that, for many people.
Does New Orleans need all the help it can get, right now? Yes, of course
Is this a nasty thing for BellSouth to do? Yes
But is it undestandable? To me, absolutely.
-Daniel
If you look at where the building is in relation to where the hardest hit area is, you will see it's right in the middle of it (New Orleans East). I had hear BS was donating this building to the city to use as a com center and EVERYONE complained about it's location and safety. There is no power out there yet, much less phone service, and they wanted to put the 911 call center there. It's not such a bad thing they took it back, 911 has been in the Hyatt since the storm and the dispatchers have been complaining about mold etc in there, so this forces them to move the call center to a more central location (City Park ave), a newer building.
If you ask me, they should look at moving the call center to the only place that didn't flood; the west bank. Algiers has been back up and running for almost 2 months now, AND there is a building that is not being used by the defunct school board still in perfect shape, close to a CO. I think the politions in NO need to learn to say "thanks but no thanks" to offers that look great on the surface but smell like mold and flood water when you get down to it.
On another note, I tried to connect to the city WiFi network the otherday, couldn't get an IP to save my life, and the network on the cruise ships? forget WiFi in the cabins, I have to go upstairs and pretty much sit right next to the AP. I'm glad I can catch EV-DO in our cabin.
"Listen closely. I'd like to help you but I can't. I'd like to say take a copy of your policy to Norma Wilcox on... Norma Wilcox, W-I-L-C-O-X... on the third floor, but I can't.
I also do not advise you to fill out and file a WS2475 form with our legal department on the second floor. I would not expect someone to get back to you to resolve the matter quickly. I'd like to help, but there's nothing I can do.
Thank you ma'm, I know you are upset!
[very softly] Pretend to be upset!
It is a solemn thought: dead, the noblest man's meat is inferior to pork.
It seems to me that when a corporation offers a "donation," and then withdraws it when somebody in government doesn't do them a "favor," then that donation was in fact a "bribe." I know there are lots of loopholes, but I thought that out and out blatant bribery was still illegal. Perhaps I'm wrong?
http://www.fred-ezone.ca/ Works quite well from what I am told from a few workmates who are out there.
Back when I first got a cell phone during my sophomore year as an undergrad (late 1999-early 2000ish), some of the upperclassmen and alumni I knew were commenting, "No college student needs a cell phone". The fact that I had a cell phone was a joke with a number of people I knew.
Two years later, over half of the incoming freshman had cell phones already. Now, three years later, it's unheard of for college students to have landlines because most have cell phones.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
I used to work for BellSouth and I heard the CIO on a conference call lamenting the terrible loss of infrastructure on 911.
BellSouth is full of evil blood sucking bastards.
If they were not a functional monopoly, that *might be* true -- and, then, only if they could not get what they want from corrupt state and local governments who cave in to bullying like this.
To stand up to the Enrons, Adelphias and Bell Souths of the world takes courage, which is a thing in very short supply among governments nowadays. Go New Orleans!
People who live in Bell South's area might remember stuff like this come election day and throw out those officials and legislators who wink at this kind of thing.
(Full disclosure: I live in California, whose ignorant governor and stupid legislators and regulators allowed Enron to turn off our electricity after reaming our butts with overcharges, and then, on tape, laughed at the possibility of grandmothers without heat or light. I am sensitive to corporate bullying.)
My experience back in the 1980s when New England Telephone was charging for DTMF was to get rotary. Turned out that DTMF worked anyway - you couldn't turn it off at the switch. So I got DTMF without paying the surcharge. Chances are that your switch also doesn't support turning off DTMF support, so even if you don't have a rotary phone, if you opt out of DTMF, it'll still work. If it were me, I'd *get* a rotary phone.
Maybe Democrats are just in denial about their own natural feelings of self preservation. The only difference between Democrats and Republicans is honesy about themselves. Well, and maybe logical thought. Oh and a succesful career. Oh and of course hypocritical actions. And the inability to think for themselves. Oh well, maybe we are different. I tried to see the similarities but all I could find was DNA.
Kind of speaks volumes as to the fact that MONEY, and nothing else, is the real root of this, and how much all parties involved stand to make from it. Pretty bad when the level of destruction and how much you expect to make going in is what your more interested in rather than getting people back up and going.
Motives, motives, motives...
Cheers
All content in this message is copyright (c) 2008. All rights reserved. RIAA is prohibited here.
As a preface, I'm from the New Orleans area and I have seen a lot of news on this subject. The free WiFi is ~150 kb/s. It is barely over dial up speeds and is only available in limited areas for now. It is meant as a tease to prompt users to get better and faster services. It is also meant to give those returning without telephone or cable service (because BS and Cox are busy cutting each other's lines) access to the Internet until service is restored.
It is a great idea and the company that is donating the equipment should be lauded.
Indian Givers!
I don't think I've ever heard of a company doing something like this. Just an incredible display of pompous arrogance.
Greg Duffield
ACS Data Recovery
www.acsdata.com
In a disaster area, you're either part of the solution or part of the problem. There are no bystanders. Bellsouth basically decided that they are not going to be part of the solution. There are plenty of other companies in the US that ARE willing to be part of not only the short-term solution but also the very long term solution, so good riddance. Lets hope they get out and stay out, and that the govt remembers what they did when it comes time to review contract bids in the future.
As a family member of residents of New Orleans, I was dissapointed today to discover the BellSouth had reneged on their offer to supply a building to the New Orleans police force, simply because the city is providing free wireless access to some of its residents. Is BellSouth so concerned with immediate profit that it doesn't see the benefit and necessity of rebuilding New Orleans? I am disappointed in you BellSouth.
You are a JERK. I am contracting at BS and burst out laughing when I read that! I almost had to leave the room. Please be more considerate of us that have to work there.
Corporate "charity" is a myth. It's always been conditional on a promise of free advertising or an otherwise enlarged profit margin.
It's difficult to debate when the participants are talking about two different things.
You're still missing the joke.
It isn't easy wiring the nation - it costs millions and millions, then you need to comply with a million tricky laws which you must navigate very carefully or face fines, lawsuits, It's no wonder broadband isn't available in most rural areas - providers have absolutely no guarantee of ever making back the cost.
But it is amazing how competition will make a bully become your best friend. Here in Boston, RCN pushed us around, charging fees for more and more absurd things, to the point that you could pay $50 for calling Support about an outage they caused! Then Comcast showed up in town, and prices spiraled through the floor. Only Comcast ever got reasonable customer service put together, but RCN might figure out why they lose business some day.
Community free wireless isn't the end of the world for these companies - it's just competition. Maybe it'll break their banks, but in most areas it will just provide another option. If municipal wireless is only on half the time, broadband can sell on having more up-time - implicitly requiring that they actually provide great up-time, which SBC and BellSouth do not have now. They can sell on having responsive customer service, but of course they'll need to get their act in gear if they expect to sell on it. Municipal wireless will force broadband providers the premium service we as consumers have expected all along.
In some cases it really might wipe them out though - never able to recoup their costs of building the network. If that appens, who's right? Can we attack SBC for having no broadband in Podunk, TX, but also attack BellSouth for having the community replace them with a tax-paid free option, after responding (if poorly) to broadband demands? Maybe we are being a little unfair.
I'm curious to hear what a cop in New Orleans thinks of reneging on an offer to help the City and the Police because of the presence of wireless Internet access.
I work for a CLEC and have to deal with Bellsouth every day. I have gotten into arguments with their reps who have admitted they screwed something up, they were wrong and what I stated was correct but there was nothing they were going to do about it--and this was managment. I have always known that a large portion of their employees have pacifiers tethered to their collar (called their Union); however, until I read this article, I never realized just how infantile their corporation is. On the whole, I blame the whole organization. There are plenty enough employees that could band together and demand change. They do it for their own raises all the time. They are just too lazy, apathetic or ignorant to care.