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Einstein Has Left the Building

Ant writes to tell us of an interesting editorial by John Horgan that is being run by the New York Times asking "will there ever be another Einstein?". The author looks at why Einstein holds such a hallowed position in public opinion and why it will be so hard for any one physicist to attain the same level of fame today. From the article: "The paradoxical answer, Gleick suggested, is that there are so many brilliant physicists alive today that it has become harder for any individual to stand apart from the pack. In other words, our perception of Einstein as a towering figure is, well, relative."

443 comments

  1. As Einstein once said... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Imagination is more important than knowledge."

    1. Re:As Einstein once said... by moro_666 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Therefor i imagine that finding a real Einstein among 6 billion people can happen more often than you think.

        However i'm not sure that many of them Einsteins ever discovered that they are so brilliant at all...

      --

      I'd tell you the chances of this story being a dupe, but you wouldn't like it.
    2. Re:As Einstein once said... by FukYa · · Score: 1

      I think this is true, imagination IS more important than knowledge. Everything we know is based on models that we have developed to predict what is measurable. The next step is to do away with the models and know exactly what it is that we are measuring. This may be impossible to do using pure logical reasoning.

    3. Re:As Einstein once said... by Lodragandraoidh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      More importantly, this may be impossible because of what we are trying to measure and how we are trying to measure it. What is light? A particle? A wave? It has qualities of both - so the question of 'exactly what it is we are measuring' is not ascertainable and is a cautionary tale for us: we only know as much as we think we understand at any given moment; new ways of approaching hard problems can alter what we consider 'reality' in the blink of an eye.

      There is always a duck-billed platypus to throw a monkey wrench into the works...

      --

      Lodragan Draoidh
      The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
    4. Re:As Einstein once said... by FukYa · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I sort of disagree here. I think what is most important is that we are on the outside of a black box trying to control what is within by sending in effectors and observing changes. Using this method, no matter how precise, we will never know what is in the box, and so will never know of all the possibilities that we are missing.

    5. Re:As Einstein once said... by csrster · · Score: 1

      Curiously, that quotation from Einstein represents a failure of his own imagination. Specifically, he would never have said it if he could have imagined how many people would subsequently abuse it as an excuse for their own ignorance. Happy New Year to one and most.

    6. Re:As Einstein once said... by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      it is attributed to him.

      --
      Conservatism: The fear that somewhere, somehow, someone you think is your inferior is being treated as your equal.
    7. Re:As Einstein once said... by sperdich · · Score: 1

      That's one accurate observation. Maybe his imagination went way over that. Or maybe he was overrated. Ser www.salvaneschi.com.ar

    8. Re:As Einstein once said... by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      "Wisdom is the domain of the Wiz."

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    9. Re:As Einstein once said... by OldAndSlow · · Score: 3, Insightful
      The next step is to do away with the models and know exactly what it is that we are measuring

      I think you misunderstand modeling. Take a brick. The very act of measuring the length of the brick involves modeling. Most of us use a very simple model that we learned in elementary school: length, height, width, volume. length > width; width > height; volume = length * width * height.

      But the brick doesn't have these simple dimensions. Look closely and you will see that the brick has rough edges. Our simple model of an ideal rectangular solid doesn't capture all of the details of our brick. I would go so far as to say that the brick doesn't have length, only our model of the brick does. Indeed, this discussion is actually about a model brick because like snowflakes and fingerprints, no two bricks are alike. So talking about bricks requires that we all share some mental model of what a brick is.

      For an introduction to some of the difficulties of measurement, see Mandelbrot's description of the lenght of coasts in "The Fractal Geometry of Nature."

    10. Re:As Einstein once said... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "...can alter what we consider 'reality' in the blink of an eye"

      You wanna know about reality changing in the blink of an eye? Take a bong full of salvia. By the time your done breathing out, you'll think you fell off the universe and landed in a realm outside of the multiverse, watching everything repeat in an incomprehensable higher dimensional symetry. You'll be a helpess floating consciousness obsevering the horrifying pointless and endlessly repeating 4 dimension fractal of what everyone else calls 'reality'.

      Phew! That's some scary shit. I don't think I'll be buying anymore, legal or not. That stuff is absolutely crazy. Simeltaneously (sp?) the most scary and amazing thing I have ever, and will ever, experience.

    11. Re:As Einstein once said... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      omg..it's true there like is no spoon and stuff!
      nothing is everything
      everything is nothing and stuff!

      whatever dude. the brick has a length who cares how we measure it. it's less than 10 feet long and more than an inch :-D close enough for me.

      if you abandon reason anything goes.

  2. Personality, not brains by JehCt · · Score: 5, Insightful
    ScuttleMonkey's summary is bunkum. Einstein was unique because of his character, not his genius. The masses recognized that Einstein was an extraordinarily humane and humble man.

    From Wikipedia:

    Einstein himself was deeply concerned with the social impact of scientific discoveries. His reverence for all creation, his belief in the grandeur, beauty, and sublimity of the universe (the primary source of inspiration in science), his awe for the scheme that is manifested in the material universe--all of these show through in his work and philosophy.
    Albert Einstein was much respected for his kind and friendly demeanor rooted in his pacifism. He was modest about his abilities, and had distinctive attitudes and fashions--for example, he minimized his wardrobe so that he would not need to waste time in deciding on what to wear. He occasionally had a playful sense of humor, and enjoyed sailing and playing the violin. He was also the stereotypical "absent-minded professor"; he was often forgetful of everyday items, such as keys, and would focus so intently on solving physics problems that he would often become oblivious to his surroundings. In his later years, his appearance inadvertently created (or reflected) another stereotype of scientist in the process: the researcher with unruly white hair.
    After the war, though, Einstein lobbied for nuclear disarmament and a world government: "I do not know how the Third World War will be fought, but I can tell you what they will use in the Fourth--rocks!"
    1. Re:Personality, not brains by toddbu · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Einstein was unique because of his character

      I think that the same holds true of virtually any public figure, whether it's a singer, actor, or politician. How many times to we hear the media speak of a President of the US (past and present) working to build his legacy? I don't think that Churchill or FDR spent much time worrying about legacy, yet history counts them as great men. The more you try to secure your place in history, the more elusive it becomes.

      --
      If you don't want crime to pay, let the government run it.
    2. Re:Personality, not brains by AKAImBatman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Einstein was unique because of his character, not his genius. The masses recognized that Einstein was an extraordinarily humane and humble man.

      BWHAHAHA! Is this the same Einstein who pissed off 90% of his professors in college because he was such a rogue?

      Einstein was a giant among physicists because of his extrodinary intelligence. He asked the questions no one else thought to ask, and produced the answers through nothing more than logical deduction. The answers he produced were so profound and world changing that it took decades for science to really grab ahold of them.

      But perhaps the most interesting part about Mr. Einstein is that he was heavily anti-institutional. His rogue personality not only clashed heavily with the "established" scientific community (who thought they had all the answers when they had precisely zilch), but he tore them apart and made way for a completely new breed of scientist.

      Will there ever be another Einstein? No. No more than there will be another Isaac Newton. There will be a completely new figure who will have such an incredible way of looking at the Universe that it will put everyone else to shame.

    3. Re:Personality, not brains by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You quoted a wiki source, for all we know Einstein edited his own entry.

    4. Re:Personality, not brains by Surt · · Score: 5, Funny

      Indeed, and we have such a visionary among us now, with a truly revolutionary view of the universe that will shatter the existing framework:

      http://www.timecube.com/

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    5. Re:Personality, not brains by CheshireCatCO · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't see how the fact that Einstein was a rogue contradicts the other traits. Gandhi was undoubtedly humane and I think we probably agree that he was humble. But he was also pretty anti-establishment. While it might be reasonable to associate the rogue trait with lack of humility, I don't think it's a given.

    6. Re:Personality, not brains by aztektum · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Unfortunately as time goes by, it seems more and more likely that that next figure won't be an individual but a corporation.

      --
      :: aztek ::
      No sig for you!!
    7. Re:Personality, not brains by TapeCutter · · Score: 5, Informative

      His credo and that fact that his humanity was revealed in the way he tried to live by it. This is what people loved and respected. Newton was at least an equally great genius but unfortunately he was also an arsehole, his work (like Einstein's), is simply admired as an acedemic artifact.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    8. Re:Personality, not brains by Anpheus · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Really, I thought Euler had already deduced that space might be curved due to the properties of the universe, but was unable to find corroborating evidence and failed to publish his theories after decades of searching. At one time, he chose to try and determine the angles between three mountain peaks using techniques he developed for measurement, but was unable to establish that space was curved because the difference was within acceptable error for his equipment. Laser inferometry showed that he would have had to be accurate between 1-10 and 1-20 degrees in order to show that space was curved. The fact that he deduced this and sought evidence for it without any prodding or any recorded reason make Euler clearly the intellectual superior. Nevertheless, I must agree with earlier posters, Einstein's personality are what made him a household name.

    9. Re:Personality, not brains by Ruff_ilb · · Score: 0

      It's America, we love rogues - Han Solo, Einstein, etc...

      --
      http://www.TheGamerNation.com/Forums
    10. Re:Personality, not brains by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Dude, what the fuck is that? That's craziness. I had to clean my brain with a Q-tip after that, and you know what came out? Brain spooge. Sorry, I have to go, there's blood coming out my nose.

    11. Re:Personality, not brains by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whatever... everyone knows it was the size of his penis. The man was hung like a quasar!

    12. Re:Personality, not brains by Estanislao+Mart�nez · · Score: 1

      Um, so, you cite Wikipedia to support your claim. How do we know that it wasn't you who wrote the Wikipedia text you cite, anyway?

    13. Re:Personality, not brains by grcumb · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "I don't think that Churchill or FDR spent much time worrying about legacy, yet history counts them as great men."

      Churchill cared so much about his legacy that he wrote a 6 volume memoir of his actions during the war, modestly entitled "The Second World War." It's good reading, but make no mistake about its purpose. From start to finish it's an apologia for his every action during that time.

      And when talking about Roosevelts, I'm more prone to remember Eleanor Roosevelt as the modest one. This is a woman who, in the dark days of segregation, drove through southern towns with a pistol on the seat beside her, to address groups like the NAACP. When a bunch of up uptight matrons refused to allow a black soprano to perform at Constitution Hall in Washington, she arranged to have the concert at the Lincoln Memorial. 70,000 people attended.

      Eleanor Roosevelt was also the driving force behind one of the most important documents since Hammurabi - the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

      Churchill and Roosevelt were both extremely dynamic personalities who knew exactly how to present themselves to the public, and whose private faces were sometimes strikingly different from their public ones. That said, they both made important - critical, even - contributions to world history.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    14. Re:Personality, not brains by blues_shuffle · · Score: 1

      Ghandi hated the Jewish about as much as he hated Indians; none. He was suggested that the Jews practise pacifism in resistance to the Holocaust, which was not unlike the way that he suggested that his fellow Indians use non-violent methods of opposing the British occupation.

    15. Re:Personality, not brains by cooley · · Score: 1

      Oh thanks man, I always love the Timecube guy. He sets the bar for crazy physics, in my opinion.

      If you dig that, read this book if you can:
      http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1585003522/104-15 99097-5395138?n=283155

      called "I was aboard a ufo". It's absolutely perfectly insane. I used to have a nice color-illustrated PDF version I got from a buddy, but I guess I've lost the file; I suppose I'm probably cubeless stupid.

      --
      Just then the floating disembodied head of Colonel Sanders started yelling Everything You Know Is Wrong!-Weird Al
    16. Re:Personality, not brains by markass530 · · Score: 1

      holly shit that is some weird stuff, what the fuck is that guy on, and what exactly is the gist of timecube.com ??

    17. Re:Personality, not brains by Sarisar · · Score: 1
    18. Re:Personality, not brains by ozmanjusri · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But perhaps the most interesting part about Mr. Einstein is that he was heavily anti-institutional.

      Lemme see, he was an anti-institutional rogue when he was a young student, and became a thoughtful, humble man when he matured. Whoever heard of that happening before?

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    19. Re:Personality, not brains by Dmala · · Score: 2, Funny

      The difference being that Han shot first, Einstein wouldn't have.

    20. Re:Personality, not brains by starX · · Score: 1

      what exactly is the gist of timecube.com ??

      Schizophrenia, I would say.

    21. Re:Personality, not brains by eraserewind · · Score: 1

      I'm going to disagree with you all. The specific details of his achievement are largely irellevant, only the fact that he is a genius in some vague sense is important. That combined with Einstein's haircut, moustache and accent are what made him a household name.

    22. Re:Personality, not brains by Amouth · · Score: 1

      "what the fuck is that guy on" the answer is "Government grown" the correct reply is where can i get some "and what exactly is the gist of timecube.com ??" the means for obtaining the above said item

      --
      '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
    23. Re:Personality, not brains by heinousjay · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Ah, because corporations aren't made of people, right? Wait, that can't be it. What is it, exactly?

      --
      Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
    24. Re:Personality, not brains by DigitalReality · · Score: 0

      They let him guest lecture at MIT. But it was so the students could make fun of him during the Q&A portions. I don't know where the video is, but it is funny.

    25. Re:Personality, not brains by nacturation · · Score: 2, Funny
      This is the true gist of timecube:
      "You maybe academically retarded.

      Academia Retards By Fact Earth Has 1 Day When Dead Still, And 4 Days Within 1 Earth Rotation, losing 3 days retards humanity.

      Are you stupid and evil?"
      Truly, a visionary.
      --
      Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
    26. Re:Personality, not brains by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 1

      Cool! What's its ticker symbol?

    27. Re:Personality, not brains by 1u3hr · · Score: 1
      Gandhi was undoubtedly humane and I think we probably agree that he was humble.

      Gandhi was very proud of his humility -- he drove people crazy by insisting on doing things the humble way. For instance, always travelling third class by train, oblivious to the fact that the other "peasants" crowdng the carriage were all members of his party or security. His self-sacrifice and idealism was real, but humble he was not.

    28. Re:Personality, not brains by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      quick google turned up this

    29. Re:Personality, not brains by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We don't know much of anything, but wikipedia is sourced, and erroneous information is frequently challenged and corrected by the ongoing community effort that is Wikipedia. In this case specifically, the quoted passages are readily confirmed from other sources. Of course, if you doubt any of it, you're free to investigate further. Rather than demanding absolute knowledge, intelligent and rational people employ Occam's Razor and inference to the best explanation. You should try it some time.

    30. Re:Personality, not brains by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Einstein published three papers in 1905 any one of which would have established his legacy as a genius and world-changer. The claim that Euler was "the intellectual superior" is absurd. Euler certainly a superior mathematician -- math wasn't Einstein's strong suit, as he often noted -- but Einstein's intellectual gifts were a match of anyone, and those gifts included his philosophical and political thinking. Those who claim that Einstein lacked brains lack brains themselves.

    31. Re:Personality, not brains by tigersha · · Score: 1

      Nehru (the head of the Congress party) once complained to Lord Mountbatten that Gandhi's insistence on humbly mixing with the peasants was costing Congress a fortune in arranging his plainclothes security detail.

      Also, despite his humility Gnahdi has some unrealistic ideas. When the Italians invaded Ethiopia he advised the Ehtopians to let the Italians run over them instead of insisting. He also advised Lord Mountbatten, the last British Viceroy, to simply leave India and leave it to the Indians, without the partition in Muslin and Hindu areas. Considering the amount of simmering religious violence in the country that was a very utopian idea.

      --
      The dangers of excessive individualism are nothing compared to the oppressiveness of excessive collectivism
    32. Re:Personality, not brains by Profound · · Score: 1

      And almost all of his important work was while he was young.

    33. Re:Personality, not brains by Carewolf · · Score: 0

      Eleanor Roosevelt was also the driving force behind one of the most important documents since Hammurabi - the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

      Too bad the US is the one country that never ratify it, and is still in violation of it.

    34. Re:Personality, not brains by shawb · · Score: 1

      Honestly, it isn't so much that Einstein came up with all these great ideas. What Einstein did was melt down all these complex ideas and then explain them in a way that the common person (okay, at least the average college student) could understand. One might think it stemmed from the difficulty he had in math class... since most theoretical physics is described in pure equations of higher order math, most people simply wouldn't get it. Einstein broke the concepts down into words.

      --
      I'll never make that mistake again, reading the experts' opinions. - Feynman
    35. Re:Personality, not brains by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And yet, he had no problem cheating on his wives and mistresses.

      Yeah, way to hold those morals high, Einstein.

      He may have stated his credo, but he lived life as an adulterer and philanderer. Great science, but lousy human being.

    36. Re:Personality, not brains by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Churchill cared so much about his legacy that he wrote a 6 volume memoir of his actions during the war, modestly entitled "The Second World War [amazon.com]." It's good reading, but make no mistake about its purpose. From start to finish it's an apologia for his every action during that time.

      Well, given how ridiculously wrong the press gets it at times (sometimes it's the press, sometimes the sources are on acid), not to mention all the psychologists and historians who put ideas and thoughts in your head I'd probably want to give my own version as well, if I did anything of real importance. It would obviously not be objective, but it would be a first-hand source.

      That is of course assuming you wanted to give a honest and sincere rationale for your actions, and even then the line between descriptive and apolegetic is thin. If you're just giving a glossy picture to satisfy your ego, you're nothing but a pompous ass though. Most of us have a lot of room for improvement with 20-20 hindsight...

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    37. Re:Personality, not brains by Fred_A · · Score: 5, Funny

      An example of Einstein explaining technical matters to the layperson (paraphrased from memory):

      Reporter : Mr Einstein, can you explain to us how the wireless works ?
      Einstein : Well, you know the telegraph, it's like a very long cat, it has its tail in New York and its head in Los Angeles. You pull the tail and the head mews.
      Reporter : Uh, yes...
      Einstein : You see, the wireless works the same except there is no cat.

      --

      May contain traces of nut.
      Made from the freshest electrons.
    38. Re:Personality, not brains by Weedlekin · · Score: 1

      That's true of a lot of scientists and mathematicians, though.

      --
      I'm not going to change your sheets again, Mr. Hastings.
    39. Re:Personality, not brains by hey! · · Score: 1

      Well, the wikipedia probably shouldn't be the first and last place to cite as an authority on anyone's charcter, although it is a valuable resource overall. Certainly one should make a distinction between the public character of an iconic person like, say, George Washington (who was much more complex than the "I cannot tell a lie" story suggests), and his private character.

      I'm not so sure Einstein was exactly humble. At least not until he was given the public mantle of Sage of Sages, and expected to have a valuable opinion on topics completely outside of his field, but bearing on the Fate of Humanity. Certainly, anybody who isn't a fool would find this attention humbling, and Einstein certainly wasn't a fool.

      With respect to will their ever be another Einstein, well no there won't. There'll never be another Newton, and Newton is arguably more important than Einstein. Nor will their ever be another Archimedes, or Euler. That's the nature of genius. It isn't just having more of what everybody else has, it's having something unique. But while that something unique makes you unique, the having of it does not make you unique, if you see the fine distinction. There are plenty of unique people, who aren't like others. They just aren't like each other either.

      It is probably true that geniuses of theoretical physics and math will hold their geniuses in greater regard than other fields, because in these fields even more than others the raw materials of today's work is the finished result of yesterday's.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    40. Re:Personality, not brains by MrNougat · · Score: 1

      1-Midday to midday = a 24 hour day rotation.
      2-Sundown to sundown = a 24 hour day rotation.
      3-Midnight to midnight = a 24 hour day rotation.
      4-Sunup to sunup = a 24 hour day rotation.
      ...
      All 4/24 hour days occur within 1 Earth rotation.


      Actually, they would occur within two Earth rotations.

      Oooops ... never mind.

      --
      Web 2.0 == Giant Blogspam Circle Jerk
    41. Re:Personality, not brains by kisak · · Score: 2, Informative
      Eh, Gauss did experiments to check if space was curved, not Euler. And Gauss definitely had a reason to check it out, since Gauss, together with Lobachevsky and Boylai, was the first to realise that there are other types of geometry than the Euclidian. With this knowledge it is natural to want to experimentally test what kind of geometry our space has.

      What makes Einstein so-called "intellectual superior", as if this is some kind of competition, is that Einstein connected gravity together with the geometry of space, creating a unified theory of all accelerated systems. Hilbert at the same time as Einstein also worked out how to use Riemann geometry to describe space, just to point out that there are many great mathematicians and physicists who have been thinking about how space curves in the history of science.

      --

      --- guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people ---

    42. Re:Personality, not brains by I_M_Noman · · Score: 2, Funny
      Gauss, together with Lobachevsky and Boylai, was the first to realise that there are other types of geometry than the Euclidian.
      And ever since I meet this man
      My life is not the same
      And Nicolai Ivanovich Lobachevsky is his name, hey!
      Nicolai Ivanovich Lobache-
      I am never forget the day I am given first original paper to write. It was on analytic and algebraic topology of locally Euclidean metrization of infinitely differentiable Riemannian manifold. Bozhe moi! This I know from nothing. What I'm going to do? But I think of great Lobachevsky and get idea - ahah!

      (Well, you know the rest.)

    43. Re:Personality, not brains by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 1
      Gandhi was a rapid anti-semite.

      I hear he did the Kessel Run in less than 12 parsecs.

    44. Re:Personality, not brains by Big_Monkey_Bird · · Score: 1

      He admitted that he was a great man, yet a lousy family man.

    45. Re:Personality, not brains by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      "He may have stated his credo, but he lived life as an adulterer and philanderer. Great science, but lousy human being.

      Just the word "adulterer" makes me wince.

      Breaking someones heart does not imply you are a lousy human being, it's actually part of the birds and bees that someone should have explained to you by now. Most adults have broken at least one heart, if you haven't then you are an unusal case. Broken hearts is the reason people mature and get more circumspect about relationships, many people end up avoiding permenant sexual relationships alltogether. Regardless of your personal disgust with Einstein having followed his heart, humans by and large are serial monogomists, learn to deal with it.

      Don't bother retrospectivly ranting about chauvanisim either, at that time in history it was a "fact of life", he simply never thought to question that part of "common-sense". Much like stoning adulterers was a "fact of life" during the dark ages, male domination was simply the prevaling morality.

      If science must have an iconic personality, I would like it to be a gentle, humourous and humane one that inspires awe and wonder. I can think of none more fitting than Einstien.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    46. Re:Personality, not brains by hackstraw · · Score: 5, Interesting

      "History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."

      -- Winston Churchill


      Currently, we have:

      "To those of you who received honours, awards and distinctions, I say well done. And to the C students, I say you, too, can be president of the United States."

      -- George W. Bush, speaking at Yale University's 300th commencement ceremony

      Sorry, I don't know of any quotes that reveal much character from a US president in the last 40 years.

      Here are some others though from before then:

      "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."

      -- Theodore Roosevelt

      "America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves."

      --Abraham Lincoln

      Check out this progression:

      "Government is not reason. Government is not eloquence. It is force. And, like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."

      -- George Washington

      to:

      "The Founding Fathers knew a government can't control the economy without controlling people. And they knew when a government sets out to do that, it must use force and coercion to achieve its purpose. So we have come to a time for choosing."

      -- Ronald Reagan, October 27, 1964

    47. Re:Personality, not brains by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      someone PLEASE replace the word "creation" with evolution in that wiki article; the sight of that word sickens me with it's implication of a "god" that would hold me accountable for my actions. Please, for the sake of the scientific minds of our children....

    48. Re:Personality, not brains by radtea · · Score: 1

      He asked the questions no one else thought to ask, and produced the answers through nothing more than logical deduction.

      These claims are both false and do a profound disservice to Einstein.

      He asked the same questions as everyone else, but he sought answers in places no one else thought to look. In particular, with regard to special relativity, while everyone else was looking at dynamics and positing undetectable entities, he lifted the carpet of kinematics and found amongst the loose change lying there a diamond: clear and hard and perfect. Nor was this a random search on his part--it was precisely his genius that let him ignore the clutter and noise of the dynamical theorists and see the tiny lump that diamond made in the carpet while everyone else was standing on it and not noticing.

      Nor did he use "nothing more than logical deduction". His work was profoundly creative. In the case of general relativity he realized that the solution to the problem of gravity was that of general invariance--the equations that describe the motion of objects should not change their algebraic form when the co-ordinate system they are described relative to undergoes any second-order smooth symmetrical transformation. But recognizing that this condition must be fulfilled--which is a again the insight of genius--is far from sufficient to determine what the form of the equations actually are. But Einstein was able, using a combination of creativity, imagination, guess-work and intuition, to find the general algebraic form that satisfied this constraint.

      Einstein is second only to Newton in the history of physics because of a combination of good fortune, personality, character and intelligence. The good fortune comes in being born in the right place and time, when great problems were facing great minds, which provided a rich landscape for their deeds. Every hero needs a dragon to slay. Their personalities made them comfortable playing a large role in world events--Newton's arrogance and Einstein's humanity drove them to have an influence on the world when others might have been willing to retire into the shadows. They both were obsessive in character, which is pretty much required to be great. And they were both supremely intelligent, whatever that combination of discipline, logic, imagination, playfulness, ruthlessness and persistence actually means.

      Will there ever be another Einstein? No. No more than there will be another Isaac Newton. There will be a completely new figure who will have such an incredible way of looking at the Universe that it will put everyone else to shame.

      In this at least we are in full agreement, although I would say, "leave everyone else in awe." There is no shame in finding enlightenment in the genius of others.

      --
      Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
    49. Re:Personality, not brains by Yahweh+Doesn't+Exist · · Score: 1

      >His self-sacrifice and idealism was real

      bollocks. he watched his wife die because he refused to let her accept British medicine, then when he got ill went running straight to them.

      he also slept with little girls.

    50. Re:Personality, not brains by Panaphonix · · Score: 1

      Sources?

    51. Re:Personality, not brains by OwnedByTwoCats · · Score: 1

      Gandhi hated the idea of partitioning India. The religious violence that erupted with the partition more or less proved Gandhi correct. Whether or not he could have pulled off a democratic multi-ethnic state is a question for the historians and the political fiction writers to mull over. Was the Hindu-Muslim difference reconcilable?

    52. Re:Personality, not brains by hoggoth · · Score: 1

      > NATURE'S HARMONIC
      SIMULTANEOUS 4-DAY
      TIME CUBE

      Hey, if you set this to music it could be as good as the Terrible Secret Of Space!

      Pak Chooie Unf!

      --
      - For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat /dev/random (may take some time)
    53. Re:Personality, not brains by tigersha · · Score: 1

      Quite frankly, the Muslims and the Hindus were wasting each other en-masse before the partition too. The country was a simmering pot waiting to explode. The violence during the partition was pretty bad though. The issue of whether partition reduced or increased the violence in the long term is a difficult question.

      --
      The dangers of excessive individualism are nothing compared to the oppressiveness of excessive collectivism
    54. Re:Personality, not brains by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So... the principle of relativity was "deduced", rather than "induced"?
      Given how poorly understood what science is anyway, I could hardly care less what a school board in Kansas wants to call it.

    55. Re:Personality, not brains by Dirk+Pitt · · Score: 1
      Like it or not, adulterer is what he was.

      He was married and had children with the woman. Not only did he treat her and their children poorly, he left her for - after having cheated with - his first cousin. This inspires neither awe nor wonder for me.

      You're correct that more and more people are moving towards serial monogamy rather than lifelong commitment, which is fine - but marriage is still an institution and commitment in which Herr Einstein entered willingly.

      Those that participate in marriage grow disillusioned often, and at that point divorce is obvious. But to treat a partner like that, and then cheat (yes, cheat) - that is a lousy, base act. There is a distinct difference between 'breaking someone's heart' (ending a relationship when the other still cares for you) and violating their trust. One is one of many natural paths for a relationship, the other is simply a poor way to treat a fellow human being. I'm not saying good people don't do it, but it's wrong - that's part of the birds and bees that someone should have explained to YOU by now.

      Look, I'd be the first person to admit and advocate the changing face of relationships in the Western world, to welcome the diversity we've gained. But a committed relationship is a committed relationship, and there were *plenty* of married men even a hundred years back that treated their wives with respect, deference, and faithfulness. Evidently Einstein wasn't capable of any of this, no matter how jovial his public persona.

    56. Re:Personality, not brains by chrisbeach.co.uk · · Score: 1
      perhaps the most interesting part about Mr. Einstein is that he was heavily anti-institutional

      On the subject of anti-institutionalism, the man himself is clearly an outspoken atheist (although the media and the Church have in the past misconstrued his references to God as an indication of a personal faith):

      "From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist.... I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our being."
      "The contemplation of this world beckoned as a liberation (...) The road to this paradise was not as comfortable and alluring as the road to the religious paradise; but it has shown itself reliable, and I have never regretted having chosen it"
      "A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death"
      "Since our inner experiences consist of reproductions, and combinations of sensory impressions, the concept of a soul without a body seem to me to be empty and devoid of meaning"
    57. Re:Personality, not brains by AKAImBatman · · Score: 1

      These claims are both false and do a profound disservice to Einstein.

      If that were true, then why do you argue my very points from a different perspective?

      He asked the same questions as everyone else, but he sought answers in places no one else thought to look. In particular, with regard to special relativity, while everyone else was looking at dynamics and positing undetectable entities, he lifted the carpet of kinematics and found amongst the loose change lying there a diamond: clear and hard and perfect. Nor was this a random search on his part--it was precisely his genius that let him ignore the clutter and noise of the dynamical theorists and see the tiny lump that diamond made in the carpet while everyone else was standing on it and not noticing.

      If Einstien were asking the same questions as everyone else, then he never would have conducted his famous thought experiment where he dropped a stone from a moving train. This line of reasoning led him to ask about light on a train. Asking about light on a train led him to ask about relative perceptions. Relative perceptions led him to develop the Special Theory of Relativity.

      It was not a random search, as you say. It was Einstien asking the questions that revealed the true nature of the Universe. Everyone else had the raw data in hand, but no one could make heads or tails of it.

      Nor did he use "nothing more than logical deduction". His work was profoundly creative.

      Yes, profoundly creative in that he developed thought experiments that allowed him to search the universe without performing a single actual experiment. Thought experiments had been used before (primarily in Mathematics), but Einstein's work may have been the first time they had ever been used to such great effect in physics.

    58. Re:Personality, not brains by Surt · · Score: 1

      I wish I could tell you, but I cannot comprehend nature's time cube.
      IMO the 2nd page, which used to be the first, is better than what he has on the first page now.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    59. Re:Personality, not brains by Dread_ed · · Score: 1

      "That said, they both made important - critical, even - contributions to world history."

      I think FDR has gotten off light in view of the fact that he surrendered millions (if not billions considering subsequent generations) of people to a life of communist slavery at the Yalta conference.

      Yes, it was a critical contribution to history, leading to such things as nuclear proliferation, the cold war, and communist agenda advancement on a global scale. Not to mention Stalin's (and his sucessors' and imitators') abysmal human rights violations.

      Critical, yes. Decent or respectable, not at all. Abhorrent and inexcusable, definitely.

      --
      When the only tool you have is a claw hammer every problem starts to look like the back of someone's skull.
    60. Re:Personality, not brains by corbettw · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Check out this progression:

      "Government is not reason. Government is not eloquence. It is force. And, like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."

      -- George Washington

      to:

      "The Founding Fathers knew a government can't control the economy without controlling people. And they knew when a government sets out to do that, it must use force and coercion to achieve its purpose. So we have come to a time for choosing."

      -- Ronald Reagan, October 27, 1964


      There isn't as much difference between those statements as you seem to imply. Consider the very next sentance in Reagan's speech:
      "Public servants say, always with the best of intentions, "What greater service we could render if only we had a little more money and a little more power." But the truth is that outside of its legitimate function, government does nothing as well or as economically as the private sector. "

      Also consider his famous line, "Government is not the solution to our problems, government is the problem." There's a reason why Reagan is considered the father of the modern conservative movement, and it's not because he was pro-government.

      --
      God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
    61. Re:Personality, not brains by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not only is your post amazingly offtopic, but you've managed to misconstrue his opinion just as much as the "media and church" to whom you refer.

      Einstein believed in a Creator. He just didn't believe that we humans could have any sort of personal relationship with that Creator. His opinion was that the Universe was far too vast for humans to be of any real significance.

    62. Re:Personality, not brains by chrisbeach.co.uk · · Score: 1

      Heh, what's worse than an (allegedly) off-topic post is a post accusing another post of being off-topic. :-)

      Anyway, you're right. He doesn't discount the possibility of a creator, but does repeatedly deny the existence of the "personal God" of modern-day religions:

      "I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."
      "Thus I came--despite the fact I was the son of entirely irreligious (Jewish) parents--to a deep religiosity, which, however, found an abrupt ending at the age of 12. Through the reading of popular scientific books I soon reached the conviction that much in the stories of the Bible could not be true. The consequence was a positively fanatic [orgy of] freethinking coupled with the impression that youth is intentionally being deceived...Suspicion against every kind of authority grew out of this experience, a skeptical attitude... has never left me..."
    63. Re:Personality, not brains by Cat_Byte · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't think any of the above based on sunrise/sunset would be correct except twice a year around equinox. At best it would still be a few seconds off and for half the year it would be > 24 hours/one rotation.

      --
      Two roads diverged in a wood, and I - I took the one the bus load of girls just went down.
    64. Re:Personality, not brains by operagost · · Score: 1
      The United States most certainly did ratify the UDHR. I might note, however, that it is NOT legally binding, although other documents inspired by it are.

      Americans in general are at odds with Article 22, the "Nanny State" article.

      Everyone, as a member of society, has the right to social security and is entitled to realization, through national effort and international co-operation and in accordance with the organization and resources of each State, of the economic, social and cultural rights indispensable for his dignity and the free development of his personality.
      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    65. Re:Personality, not brains by saider · · Score: 2, Funny


      Schrodinger would have both shot and not shot. However it would collapse into one of the outcomes once you watch the movie.

      --


      Remember, You are unique...just like everyone else.
    66. Re:Personality, not brains by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you've misconstrued his opinion as well. If you look closely at Einstein's beliefs, you will find that he was a Spinozan, and what he referred to as "God" more or less what we would call the beauty of order and harmony in the physical world, and his "religion" amounted to admiration for the structure of the universe as reflected by scientific discovery. His "Creator" was not really what most religious people would refer to as a "Creator".

    67. Re:Personality, not brains by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's not clear how much choice Roosevelt had. The American public was still quite strongly isolationist (it had taken an attack on American soil by the Japanese to bring the USA into WWII). The exploitation of the working class by the Robber Barons in the 20's and the Depression were also fairly fresh in people's minds, whereas Communism's faults and weaknesses were not as apparent as they are now after 40+ years of Cold War. Also think about how many North Americans went to fight on the communist side in the Spanish Civil War. Could FDR have convinced the American people (France, England, and Germany were spent) to mount up a war effort to topple communist Russia and China, without fighting a strong 5th column?

      The US atomic arsenal was empty, Russia probably wouldn't have folded like Japan did under nuclear threat, and FDR couldn't be sure he would succeed in an invasion of Russia where the German military had failed. More importantly, I think FDR sensed that the internal political alliances built fighting a war against Germany and Japan would not hold in a continued fight against Russia. It would tear the USA apart politically the way no other issue had since slavery and would do worse to an already exhausted Europe. Perhaps he also trusted in the long-term superiority of democratic capitalist society, but I think primarily he sensed that there were too many wounds and fissures in the fabric of American society that needed to heal before communism could be tackled. It was a big gamble, and one we seem to have mostly won.

      Critical, yes. Decent or respectable, not at all. Abhorrent and inexcusable, definitely
      You must be Republican :-). Trying to impose moral absolutism in politics may work for a while but in the end it will cause a backlash and is doomed to failure. Politics is all about compromise and fighting the battles you think you can win. Great statesmen are just far better than the average politician at galvanizing popular opinion that their way is correct, but they don't lose sight of that fact. Sun Tzu effectively said to only fight the battles you know you can win, and otherwise to avoid conflict until you can arrange conditions where you can win. That wisdom is 2000+ years old and well worth remembering.

    68. Re:Personality, not brains by Audacious · · Score: 1

      "The Founding Fathers knew a government can't control the economy without controlling people. And they knew when a government sets out to do that, it must use force and coercion to achieve its purpose. So we have come to a time for choosing."

      -- Ronald Reagan, October 27, 1964


      Me thinks they chose unwisely.

      Einstein:

      As with many others - I think the article is wrong and basically shows a hidden wish to live in the time when Einstein lived. People are famous not so much for discovering something but how they went about discovering it as well as how they behaved before, during, and after the discovery.

      People achieve noteriety because they stood up for a principle. Whether that principle is for good or evil. Lasting fame comes when mediocrity is overcome and word spreads about the person's deeds. But every generation has its people who stand out. Albert Einstein - yes. But what about Carl Sagan? Donald Knuth? Issac Asimov? Mathematicians, Physicists, Astrophysicists?

      Every generation is different. Facing different problems as well as the old ones which came before. We have as of yet to even establish a base on the Moon and therefore there is an entire galaxy waiting to be discovered. So Einstein is one of the greats, but there is going to be others who will be just as great as him. Who knows? It might even be a machine like the one which just won the test of driving across the desert. Or one of these mega-net set-ups like what SETI has or the ones to try to find new drugs to fight cancer, extend life, and so on. But my bet is that there will be someone. Some person who will become as well known as Einstein for his contributions to science and I think the time is nearing when this one person will become known. Because we or coming up to the middle of the next generation and it is about time for someone. So here's to whomever that one person may be! :-)

      --
      Someone put a black hole in my pocket and now I'm broke. :-)
    69. Re:Personality, not brains by operagost · · Score: 1
      I don't think it's fair to compare a statement said in jest at the opening of a commencement speech, to the thoughtful declarations made at more serious times.

      That being said, here's proof that not all C students become president.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    70. Re:Personality, not brains by 1u3hr · · Score: 1
      >His self-sacrifice and idealism was real
      bollocks. he watched his wife die because he refused to let her accept British medicine, then when he got ill went running straight to the

      Well, yes, that was the "idealism".

      he also slept with little girls

      His grand-niece, Manu, but she was 19.

      A great man, but not a messiah; and his family suffered greatly for his ideals.

    71. Re:Personality, not brains by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Check out this progression:

      "Government is not reason. Government is not eloquence. It is force. And, like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."

      -- George Washington

      to:

      "The Founding Fathers knew a government can't control the economy without controlling people. And they knew when a government sets out to do that, it must use force and coercion to achieve its purpose. So we have come to a time for choosing."


      It looks like you totally missed the point of Reagan's quote. At least, you did if you were trying to illustrate a devolution of presidential character as evidenced by the differences in those quotes.

      In that statement, Reagan was advocating NOT controlling the economy BECAUSE it would be controlling the people. He wasn't saying that government SHOULD start controlling the people in order to control the economy.

      In fact, those 2 quotes from Reagan and Washington are both saying the same damn thing. That is, both were warning of the dangers of an invasive, tyrannical government.

      But, if you were trying to show the similarity between the 2, then I misread your intentions and apologize.

    72. Re:Personality, not brains by coopex · · Score: 1
      --
      The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
    73. Re:Personality, not brains by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      "I'm not saying good people don't do it, but it's wrong"

      My point, maybe a lousy act but it does not follow he was a lousy human being. My wife of 20yrs treated me in a similar manner before she left, a few thoughtless and selfish acts do not negate the rest of the 20yrs we spent together.

      "There is a distinct difference between 'breaking someone's heart' (ending a relationship when the other still cares for you) and violating their trust. One is one of many natural paths for a relationship, the other is simply a poor way to treat a fellow human being."

      "I'm leaving for someone else" has the same ring as "I'm leaving for someone else that I have slept with". The result in both cases is an overwhelming feeling of loss, an overwhelming feeling of betrayal would seem to indicate an ownership mindset towards the other person. Infidelity is a symptom of weak sexual relationship bonds, not a serious character fault.

      If Einstien were the pinup boy for the institution of marraige rather than the institution of science you may have a point, but he is not, so you don't. His infidelity (iconicly portrayed as shoelaces) show him up as human rather than superhuman, something science should never forget.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    74. Re:Personality, not brains by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      "Everyone else had the raw data in hand, but no one could make heads or tails of it."

      This is the definition of genius, he accepted that the speed of light was constant as experiments had shown, this lead him to the idea of variable space and time. He may have used more than logical deduction but it did not appear in his 3 page paper, there was not a single reference.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    75. Re:Personality, not brains by AKAImBatman · · Score: 1

      Precisely. After all, what is genius but asking the right questions? If you ask the right question, then the answer should produce itself.

    76. Re:Personality, not brains by rtb61 · · Score: 1
      The failures of government are the failures of the people that support that government. It is all fun to crtique the government but lets drop the B$ that the private sector with it's profit firts rule will actually achieve anything of lasting value to humanity, the only thing the halts the private sector rush to the lowest common denominator and maximum profit is the government.

      Heres' a question for you, would the private sector ever have abolished slavery and have spent the money enforcing the abolition. You know the answer to that question, of course not because it would reduce profits. Consider the directors of drug companies that establish system where new drug development is delayed because they have an existing drug patent that is profitable or drugs that minimise the symptoms are preffered to drugs that provide a cure or test results are fudged to get a drug onto the market to recover the investment or when they hire publicists to counter bad reports about a drug so they can continue selling it regardless of the harm caused. Now those directors are not only shortening their own lives as a result but also the lives of their own family members in the pursuit of profit over the advancement of medical science.

      The private sector only ever represents private interests , the public sector represents public interest and the failures in public sector are always because of private sector interests (from individuals to corporations all ripping off the public purse to fullfill their own greedy private interests). So the outstanding success of the private sector is it's ability to steal from the public sector, never more apparent than now with the current US administration barely bothering to cover up it's private sector "legislation and administration for sale" scheme.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    77. Re:Personality, not brains by corbettw · · Score: 1

      Heres' a question for you, would the private sector ever have abolished slavery and have spent the money enforcing the abolition

      Probably not. But then, protecting the rights of its citizens is one of the "legitimate purposes" to which Mr. Reagan referred.

      Government has its place, don't get me wrong. Just don't subscribe to it supernatural powers or a higher sense of morality than exist in other parts of society. After all, the people in it are only human.

      Oh, and as for the private sector not contributing anything of "lasting value" to humanity, when was the last time a government agency had a direct hand in developing a new medical treatment? Compare that with the thousands of life saving drugs developed over the years by private pharmaceutical companies. I think you owe all of those researchers and doctors an apology.

      --
      God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
    78. Re:Personality, not brains by CAIMLAS · · Score: 1

      I'd say Regan's personal character was well portrayed through many of the things he said; he was the exception during the second half of the 20th century.

      The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' Ronald Reagan

      The best minds are not in government. If any were, business would hire them away. - Ronald Reagan

      Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free. Ronald Reagan

      Freedom is one of the deepest and noblest aspirations of the human spirit. Ronald Reagan

      How do you tell a communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin. Ronald Reagan

      History teaches that wars begin when governments believe the price of aggression is cheap. Ronald Reagan, Address to the Nation, Jan 16, 1984

      I'm not a fanboy of the guy, but I do think he was the best President since Theo Roosevelt.

      --
      ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
    79. Re:Personality, not brains by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did he say Santa or Satan?

    80. Re:Personality, not brains by srussell · · Score: 1
      Einstein was unique because of his character
      I think that the same holds true of virtually any public figure, whether it's a singer, actor, or politician.
      Yeah, I'd agree with that. I'm a big fan of Charlize Theron's ... um ... "character".

      --- SER

    81. Re:Personality, not brains by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sounds like this homeless guy, Loopy, in melbourne... the spyrograph broke his mind. poor guy.

  3. They don't make 'em.... by DoraLives · · Score: 4, Funny

    like they used to.

    --
    Is it fascism yet?
    1. Re:They don't make 'em.... by Overly+Critical+Guy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Einstein is so famous because pop culture made him famous. There were lots of brilliant physicists back then, and there are many today.

      Same with Stephen Hawking. He's famous in pop culture today mostly because of his disability, which fits with the media's love of handicapped geniuses (aside from eccentric looking geniuses, like Einstein).

      --
      "Sufferin' succotash."
    2. Re:They don't make 'em.... by toddbu · · Score: 1

      Actually, they do. If you think about it for a minute, quantum mechanics predicts that there are an infinite number of universes that represent all the possible outcomes of any event, so there are lots of possible universes in which Einstein wasn't born and therefore relativity was discovered by someone else. So somewhere, in some universe, I'm discovering relativity right now.

      --
      If you don't want crime to pay, let the government run it.
    3. Re:They don't make 'em.... by miyako · · Score: 1

      that's not actually correct as I understand it. Just because there are infinite possible universes does not mean that every universe exists.
      It's sort of like how there are infinite values between 1 and 2 (1.1, 1.11, 1.11, etc), but 7 is not a value between 1 and 2.

      --
      Famous Last Words: "hmm...wikipedia says it's edible"
    4. Re:They don't make 'em.... by UserGoogol · · Score: 2, Informative

      No it doesn't. That is one way of interpreting the concept of wavefunctions, but there are others.

      --
      "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." -- Hanlon's Razor
  4. WWII by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Part of Einstein's fame probably has a lot to do the the impedending atomic bomb. Today, radical military tech is common-place.

    1. Re:WWII by CheshireCatCO · · Score: 1

      The general public didn't learn of the atomic bomb until Hiroshima, and until roughly the start of the war it was generally thought impossible by the people who knew about the possiblity at all. Einstein achieved his fame aroudn 1919 with the gravitational lensing test of General Relativity in 1919.

    2. Re:WWII by scotch · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Today, radical military tech is common-place

      I'm having trouble parsing this one; if it's radical, it can hardly be common place, no?

      --
      XML causes global warming.
    3. Re:WWII by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      Which is ironic since Einstein had little to do with the atomic bomb, and was the most famous critic of the physical theories it was based upon.

      On the other hand, much of Einsteins critics of quantom physics help push it forward and solve its difficult problems. By the time Einstein gave up counterproving it, it was pretty much accepted theory.

    4. Re:WWII by m50d · · Score: 1

      What was radical military tech in Einstein's time is now commonplace.

      --
      I am trolling
    5. Re:WWII by CheshireCatCO · · Score: 1

      Actually, Einstein didn't criticize the real work that lead to the atomic bomb, since that was really the experimental results. I don't think that quantum was up for describing nuclear fission from the theoretical perspective at that time. In fact, Einstein signed off on the letter to Roosevelt telling the president to get working on a bomb because Germany was already working on it. That pretty clearly indicates that he believed the experimental results. But he continued to work on his own alternative approach to unification of the forces (and thus removing the need for at least much of QM) until his death.

      Also, don't forget that he was also one of the founders of Quantum Mechanics. He didn't like the direction it took later on.

  5. Show me by brian0918 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Show me the "brilliant physicists" that have published four papers in one year, each individually deserving of a Nobel Prize.

    1. Re:Show me by Rallion · · Score: 0

      Show me the "brilliant physicists" that have published four papers in one year, each individually deserving of a Nobel Prize.

      If there weren't OTHER physicists publishing similar papers first, perhaps some physicists would. That's the point.

    2. Re:Show me by toddbu · · Score: 4, Funny
      If there weren't OTHER physicists publishing similar papers first, perhaps some physicists would. That's the point.

      So is your argument that publishing quality work is a zero sum game? I bet our good friend Einstein would have loved the Internet. Then he'd have blogged about ten good papers per year.

      --
      If you don't want crime to pay, let the government run it.
    3. Re:Show me by Dr.+Spork · · Score: 1
      It's not stupid to suggest that physics has elements of a zero sum game. There is something like a hard limit on our capacity to collect new data that's relevant to fundamental questions. Per unit time, there's only so much data (because of finite budgets) and then theoreticians share this data and race to interpret it correctly and brilliantly. So it makes sense that the more outstanding people take part in the races, the fewer "gold medals" any single individual will receive.

      Another thing that works against the current generation of physicists is that Einstein and Heisenberg may really be more-or-less right, where as these old guys had the luxury of having predecessors that were wrong in a strikingly demonstrable way. That sort of revolution makes outsiders pay attention. But physicists can't just declare a revolution for its own sake, to make people notice them. Too many try to sound important (hello Drs. Greene, Davies, Penrose, Wolfram, et al) by breathless television appearances and glossy books, where they try to shock us by describing recent mathematical results by some crappy analogy. Of course, the new work is very interesting, but it doesn't subvert the old work, so we don't really care.

      Anyway, here's how you beat Einstein: come up with a Theory of Everything (without strings/branes please!), make a prediction that violates general relativity, and have that prediction be confirmed and GR falsified in a big public spectacle of an experiment. Got it? OK, off you go!

    4. Re:Show me by toddbu · · Score: 1
      Anyway, here's how you beat Einstein: come up with a Theory of Everything (without strings/branes please!), make a prediction that violates general relativity, and have that prediction be confirmed and GR falsified in a big public spectacle of an experiment. Got it? OK, off you go!

      Next week. I'm busy this week watching the boxed set of "The Dukes of Hazzard" that I got for Christmas. :-)

      Actually, I think that the first part of your comment is total BS, but you nailed it with the last part. Einstein thought big. He didn't get approval from anyone for his thought experiments, and as far as I know he never spent any large sums of cash to do his work. What he did do was to get other people to spend large sums of cash to prove his theories right. He convinced others to think about the problem before running off and spending money. Sadly, many theorists these days want it the other way around. They seem to need big research grants before they can make any new discoveries. Perhaps this is how incremental physics works, but revolutionary physics is usually done on a shoestring budget.

      --
      If you don't want crime to pay, let the government run it.
    5. Re:Show me by Dr.+Spork · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I think what I meant is that Einstein was making a theory for data that others collected, and that theory wouldn't have happened without that data which needed explaining. You can't do even theoretical physics in an intellectual vacuum. At the start of the 20th century there was an explosion of new observations about things large and small. That was also almost the end of the time when you can do most of the amazing and shocking research in a modestly-funded university lab.

      Now you (usually) need huge accelerators and expensive satellites to collect fundamental data... and when those things produce readings, many people find out about them simultaneously, and the race is on. We just don't build many of these in a year, and we don't build the stuff that would really show us something exciting, since it would cost too much. So fundamental physicists may be somewhat starved for data, which is why they to off on adventures into this purely abstract mathematical string theory wonderland. Of course, they're a clever lot, and if we let them work on it longer, maybe the will find a way to test it.

    6. Re:Show me by ozmanjusri · · Score: 3, Interesting

      At the start of the 20th century there was an explosion of new observations about things large and small.

      And now with databases and networking we can aggregate data across disciplines like never before. Fertile ground for a new Einstein, I would have thought.

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    7. Re:Show me by njyoder · · Score: 1

      He only received a nobel prize for one of those, so your statement is subjective rubbish. AS others have stated, physics has gotten much more complicated over time, so we don't see discoveries nearly that revolutionary come from a single person. Anything radically new will be orders of magnitude more complicated than any of his work was. Your statement suggests that you've never actually studied GR, you probably just read some summaries in lay person books.

      I have taken GR as an undergraduate and I can tell you that it's pretty much standard to learn and physics graduates tend to understand it pretty well. On othe other hand, if you look at new theories like M-theory, you'll notice that, as other posters stated, you can get your PhD just trying to analyze one aspect of it. The complexity of scientific knowledge increases exponentially over time. This means that you get PhDs in sub-sub-specialities now.

      This is, of course, ignoring all past contributions of geniuses. Someone like you who obviously only has a lay understanding of the subject is completely unaware of past geniuses of the 19th century like Maxwell, Gauss and Farady who all made important contributions. They did "nobel prize worthy" work, but were never recognized as such because it was before the Nobel Prize existed. This is really a problem with lay understandings, they just hear about how great Einstein was then ignore all the other great geniuses in history who students in physics and engineering subjects learn about.

      Just look at the long list of Nobel Prize winners and nominees now. It's so big that I doubt most scientists even know who half of them are. They encompass so many disciplines.

    8. Re:Show me by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      You don't need a database to search in limited set of data, and physics don't need aggregate data from other disciplines. There is very little data in humanities and business science that would help explain fundamental aspects of the universe.

    9. Re:Show me by ozmanjusri · · Score: 1

      physics don't need aggregate data from other disciplines. There is very little data in humanities and business science that would help explain fundamental aspects of the universe.

      Right. And information from history, cosmology, astronomy, chemistry and medicine are useless as well. Sure.

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    10. Re:Show me by Mr.+Underbridge · · Score: 1
      If there weren't OTHER physicists publishing similar papers first, perhaps some physicists would. That's the point.

      If so, it's incorrect. People forget the giants in physics who were around in the early 1900's, a time that was arguably the golden age of physics even aside from Einstein. This was the time of Planck, Rutherford, Bohr, etc. If anything, I'd turn the premise on its head - during the *strongest* period for physics in the last couple of centuries, Einstein *still* stood out.

      And as grandparent stated, Einstein's 1905 will probably never be duplicated. The fact that he never got the Nobel for relativity is staggering - by the time it was fully understood, he already had a Nobel, and he was so highly regarded that giving him more Nobels would have been superfluous.

    11. Re:Show me by endoplasmicMessenger · · Score: 1
      Einstein was making a theory for data that others collected

      Einstein's General Theory of Relativity (his second, maybe third, paradigm-shattering insight) proposed measuring things that no one even had thought to measure until then: like the fact that light bends as it goes around the sun. Of course, the problem of Mercury's procession was fairly well known, and all manner of scientists were coming up with (wrong) reasons for it. It took Einstein to come up with the right explanation: that the space-time continuum bends in the presence of gravity. D'oh, that's so obvious!

      --
      Evolution is a fact. Darwinism is a joke.
    12. Re:Show me by Paraplex · · Score: 1

      I think the real distinction is that thought is diffused amongst many people very quickly due to rapid communication methods like the internet.

      A slashdot comments page alone can diffuse a potential research topic into a "well I could write about it but its kinda a conclusion that could be reached by anyone if they followed the logical conclusion".

      A lot of very revolutionary ideas today are not "owned" by any one person, but shared, thus enter our palette of knowledge unattached to any charismatic figurehead.

  6. This is pretty obvious by poopdeville · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is pretty obvious. While many people were studying physics while Einstein worked, the mathematical methods they used tended to be relatively primitive. A precocious undergraduate can easily understand the state of physics up to Einstein's first few papers. This is not to say that Einstein wasn't insightful. He certainly was. However, we're now studying the fruits of his insights, and it takes a few years of graduate school to become an expert in even a small field. If there is a next Einstein, I foresee people studying him for years after becoming a Ph.D. before they become "experts."

    --
    After all, I am strangely colored.
    1. Re:This is pretty obvious by v1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you think about it, it makes sense that a scientist in his era would shine brightly. At the time he was in his prime, there were a lot of important discoveries being made which opened up a lot of new territory in which to make new discoveries. Now you could view science as a much more mature study... there may still be a lot of room for new discoveries but they are not the easy ones that can be expressed with 5 characters like "e=mc2". Now such similar discoveries require collaboration of teams of scientists several years of work to publish papers that would require hundreds of pages of text to describe.

      I suppose I can summarize this by saying it's not that the people are not as brilliant as they used to be, but that the noteworthy acheivements that are yet to be found are much more difficult to conquer, so we see them much less frequently.

      Another possible influence on this may be that at Einstein's time, there was a world war going on. There's nothing quite like the military to concentrate talented people for research and development, and to provide a nearly limitless source of funding to speed up the research. We don't have that now.

      --
      I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    2. Re:This is pretty obvious by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      "However, we're now studying the fruits of his insights, and it takes a few years of graduate school to become an expert in even a small field. If there is a next Einstein,..."

      Einstien was a "big picture" type of guy, details were something he "looked up" to confirm the picture.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    3. Re:This is pretty obvious by techno-vampire · · Score: 3, Informative
      Another possible influence on this may be that at Einstein's time, there was a world war going on.

      There was a world war going on in 1905 when he published his papers? Really? Which one?

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    4. Re:This is pretty obvious by EvanED · · Score: 2, Informative

      Now you could view science as a much more mature study... there may still be a lot of room for new discoveries but they are not the easy ones that can be expressed with 5 characters like "e=mc2"

      Are you really that sure about that?

      I'll agree that the chances of another discovery where such a profound statement (that energy and mass are convertible) can be made in so simple a form is unlikely, but by no means is it impossible. I have a suspicion that if you went to 1904 and asked someone if such a statement could be made so simply you would have gotten a reaction similar to yours.

      Another possible influence on this may be that at Einstein's time, there was a world war going on.

      Keep in mind that special relativity was 1905 and general 1915. At the time he published his two biggest theories (or at least the most well known, even among people who have done some physics studying) he wasn't yet anywhere near the Manhattan Project or anything like that.

    5. Re:This is pretty obvious by nmb3000 · · Score: 5, Funny
      This is not to say that Einstein wasn't insightful. He certainly was.

      I agree.

      MOD EINSTEIN UP!!!

      Re: Relativity (Score:5, Insightful)
      by Einstein (0) <speedoflight@gmail.com> on Tue Sept 18, 1905 12:42 PM

          E = mc^2

          Suck it.

      --

          God does not play dice with the universe.
      --
      "What do you despise? By this are you truly known." --Princess Irulan, Manual of Muad'Dib
      /)
    6. Re:This is pretty obvious by C0llegeSTUDent · · Score: 2, Funny

      That would be World War .5 beta

      Next time use wikipedia, or else you will make a fool of yourself.

    7. Re:This is pretty obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      September 18, 1905 was a Monday.

      Sorry.

    8. Re:This is pretty obvious by Sneakabout · · Score: 0

      Hmm? Just because you need a few years of graduate school to understand the work doesn't mean that the next Einstein will need it. In fact, the next Einstein probably won't need to understand all of it before he/she realises the next breakthrough which rewrites it. After all, if there's a new way of looking at it which makes it much simpler, getting entrenched in the current methods could be counterproductive.

      --
      Sneakabout is a mysterious figure, having done too much mathematics.
    9. Re:This is pretty obvious by vertinox · · Score: 1
      Well... Depends on when he formally communicated it. From the almighty wiki
      He was awarded the 1921 Nobel Prize for Physics for his explanation of the photoelectric effect in 1905 (his "miracle year") and "for his services to Theoretical Physics."

      After his general theory of relativity, which he communicated in its final form to the Prussian Academy of Sciences at Berlin on November 25, 1915, was verified by observing the predicted bending of light by the Sun during a solar eclipse in May 1919 by a British research team led by Sir Arthur S. Eddington, Einstein became world-famous, an unusual achievement for a scientist.

      So he came up with it in 1905, gave the formal final version of his theory in 1915, and was proven by observation in May 1919.

      Well you could call the Russo-Japanese war in 1905 a mini-world war.
      --
      "I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
      -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
    10. Re:This is pretty obvious by techno-vampire · · Score: 1

      No, I don't think the Russo-Japanese war counts as a mini-world war. There was only one theater of combat, in the Far East, and its coastal waters. Just because the Russian Fleet that was slaughtered at Toshima straits had to come half-way around the world doesn't make a difference, because the actual fighting was all in the Far East.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
  7. Sour grapes? by alex_guy_CA · · Score: 0
    "In other words, our perception of Einstein as a towering figure is, well, relative."

    Might I suggest that the author is trying to resolve his own feelings on inadequacy. I believe that a scientist that makes such a huge and profound leap will still stand out from all of the "brilliant" scientists who are incrementally advancing the frontiers of knowledge.

    1. Re:Sour grapes? by quokkapox · · Score: 1
      the author is trying to resolve his own feelings on inadequacy.

      John Horgan?! No way! He's not like that at all. Yeah. Read The End of Science . John Horgan is a grumpy, jealous, cynical agitator.

      --
      it's a blue bright blue Saturday hey hey
    2. Re:Sour grapes? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But Einstein is the posterboy of scientific brilliance *because* standard physics of the time had so many blindspots. There has to be some unoccupied intellectual ground in for a super genius to make "a huge and profound leap." In other words, once the wheel has already been invented, it's harder to make so much progress so quickly. When intellectual fields and/or society maintain large blindspots, it's easier for an individual to make significant leaps by seeing what others can't. Maybe today physicists maintain fewer blindspots. If a clone of Einstein came onto the physics scene today, it's not clear that Einstein 2 would be all that noticable. It seems like a lot of brilliant minds are already tackling all the problems within physics, and I have to doubt there's so much room for more "huge and profound leaps."

    3. Re:Sour grapes? by alex_guy_CA · · Score: 1
      "Maybe today physicists maintain fewer blind spots."

      The thing about our blind spots is that by definition we can't see them, so we have no idea how many of them there are or how big there are. Maybe Einstein 2 would find one big enough to drive 90% of the universe (dark) thru.

  8. Uh? by Quaoar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What about Hawking? You can't tell me many lay people with no interest in science don't at least know of him.

    --
    I'll form my OWN solar system! With blackjack! And hookers!
    1. Re:Uh? by PoitNarf · · Score: 1

      Homer doesn't know of him; how much more lay can you get?

      Hawking: "Your theory of a donut-shaped universe is intriguing, Homer. I may have to steal it."

      Homer: "Wow, I can't believe someone I never heard of is hanging out with a guy like me."

      --

      "0101100101? It's just jibberish. *looks in mirror, gasps* 1010011010@!? AHHHHHH!!"
    2. Re:Uh? by Quaoar · · Score: 1

      I think the episode is trumped by the much better "Homer in 3D" segment in Treehouse of Horror VI: Homer: "I wish I'd read that book by that wheelchair guy..."

      --
      I'll form my OWN solar system! With blackjack! And hookers!
    3. Re:Uh? by wass · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Hawking has contributed to the fields of GR and cosmology, but can you tell me the major discoveries and research he's conducted? Just because he writes a pop-science book and you've heard of him doesn't make him a 'great' in physics. Of course it doesn't mean he's not 'great' either.

      So he's done some novel things within cosmology, along with Penrose, Rees, and others, but how does that compare with Einstein? Which of Hawking's discoveries do you think is worthy of a Nobel Prize, specifically why should Hawking get one over other cosmologists? Einstein should have had at least a few more Nobel prizes (special relativity itself is worthy, not to mention GR, and his study of Brownian Motion is pretty good too).

      While Hawking is well-known (he'd probably be less famous if he wasn't in a wheelchair), Einstein's research ran a much wider gamut, including opening up entirely new areas of physics.

      --

      make world, not war

    4. Re:Uh? by 0racle · · Score: 1

      There's so much I don't know about astrophysics.

      Anyway just because Homer doesn't know him doesn't mean that no braindead idiots know him. Fry knew him and worked at the pizzaria he frequented.

      --
      "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
    5. Re:Uh? by Isotopian · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What about his groundbreaking work on Black Holes? (Hawkings Radiation, anyone?) Stephen Hawkings is as close as we have to a modern Einstein, IMHO.

      --

      It's poetry with a beat behind it! And guns! They're like beatniks with automatic weapons.

    6. Re:Uh? by wass · · Score: 1
      But that's my point, Hawking's major work seems to be primarily black holes (eg Hawking radiation, and entropy). Einstein's work spanned a larger set of subfields of physics. Hawking also isn't the only person working on these topics, and hasn't opened up entirely new fields of research.

      Additionally, Einstein used experimental data (eg his 'miraculous year' article on Brownian motion, which used IIRC sugar water). And he also proposed experiments to test the validity of his work (eg, measure the deviation of a star during solar eclipse). AFAIK Hawking hasn't done this either. Although in Hawking's defense, in Cosmology it's much harder to do experiments.

      --

      make world, not war

    7. Re:Uh? by georgewilliamherbert · · Score: 1

      Hawking radiation, not plural.

      What Hawking did was successfully apply quantum mechanics to a point of particular interest in relativity, the event horizon area of black holes. The combination of quantum physics and relativity has been a particular problem spot in physics since the two theories were both public; it was known that they didn't fit together well, and attempts to reconcile them have been a particularly painful part of how modern physics has advanced. See "Grand Unified Theory" et al.

      Hawking radiation isn't the end of that path, but it was an interesting point somewhere near the beginning, and was a major step forwards in practical terms. It's not particularly relevant to the grand unified theories now working their way around to identifying testable quantities, and is only of practical interest if you're standing near a small black hole, but it was a pretty big contribution.

    8. Re:Uh? by Isotopian · · Score: 1

      I think I meant Hawking's, which may still be incorrect, but as long as it's grammatically correct, I can live with it.

      --

      It's poetry with a beat behind it! And guns! They're like beatniks with automatic weapons.

    9. Re:Uh? by zerocool^ · · Score: 5, Funny


      While Hawking is well-known (he'd probably be less famous if he wasn't in a wheelchair)

      The wheelchair and speaking device is the tradeoff for sacrificing all that DEX and CHA for the high INT.

      --
      sig?
    10. Re:Uh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Doubtful, since he called him "Stephen Hawkings".

    11. Re:Uh? by Psykus · · Score: 2, Informative

      We all know he's moved on to his rap career...

    12. Re:Uh? by Dollar+Sign+TA · · Score: 1

      Actually, I'd bet that that's true - I'll bet many non-techy people have not heard of Hawking. Or, perhaps they'd recognize the name but couldn't tell you whether he was a scientist, a politician, an athlete, etc. People are surprisingly stupid, it turns out. Many people couldn't tell you who the vice president is right now.

    13. Re:Uh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not that strange, considering the relativity of the concept 'vice president' kind of contradicting the existence of 'the vice president'. Stupidity usually exists in layers. Of which this comment is just a further example. No doubt...

    14. Re:Uh? by identity0 · · Score: 1

      Well, considering he's in the Lucasian Chair, I'd say that the University of Cambridge seems to think he's a good physicist. It at least puts him in the same company as Newton, Babbage, and Dirac, names that I recognize even as a non-physicist.

    15. Re:Uh? by 16K+Ram+Pack · · Score: 1
      I think they'd know he is a scientist, but in what field, I doubt they know.

      I heard recently that A Brief History of Time is one of the most bought, but unread books.

    16. Re:Uh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "You can't tell me many lay people with no interest in science don't at least know of him."

      In fact, most lay people with no interest of science have never heard of him. These sorts comments remind me of the famous fictional claim that Pauline Kael said she couldn't understand how Nixon could have won because she didn't know anyone who voted for him.

    17. Re:Uh? by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      Where as Einstein just trusted God to role his dices..

    18. Re:Uh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      as we already said, what makes one famous is his character, his wit. so, I personally would count hawking as the "second einstein". example apart from his works?

      in a german tv show some 2 months ago, he was asked "what would you do, if you had full control of your body back for one day?"
      "the answer would not be suitable for tv..."

      OT: damnit, i can't even read the word in the image myself...needed some seconds to grok it..

    19. Re:Uh? by Decaff · · Score: 1

      What about his groundbreaking work on Black Holes? (Hawkings Radiation, anyone?)

      Much of what Stephen Hawking does is to take other's ideas and sort them out mathematically. He has not originated that much alone. I am afraid that his fame comes more from a combination of his personality and disability.

      I would nominate Roger Penrose as far more worthy of the Einstein comparison. He is a scientist of broad knowledge and great imagination who truly has come up with original ideas. He is one of the few modern physicists who seem to be able to go beyond the fun of playing around with fashionable maths (such as the dead-end that is String Theory).

    20. Re:Uh? by Kjella · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The wheelchair and speaking device is the tradeoff for sacrificing all that DEX and CHA for the high INT.

      The intelligence he probably had, but there are a lot of brilliant people who never get that far. One of the reasons he's come so far is because he's had a lot of time to work on it sitting in his wheelchair. Most discoveries are made by relatively young people, often single and often without children. Cue the "geeks can't get laid" jokes, but it is much simpler than that.

      If you got up early to get the kids to kindergarten, and well Tommy wasn't feeling very well so you're considering taking him to the doctor, and they were yelling and now you have a headache, and you're wondering what you should get your wife for the upcoming anniversary, and today you have to drive Billy to soccer practise, and your wife wanted to buy some new curtains for the kitchen that you had to see, but then again she promised she'd make it up to you later tonight and...

      Chances are pretty slim you'll do any late studying with your physics book. That interesting experiment you didn't finish in the lab will just have to wait. And you haven't exactly done any deep insight on theoretical physics today either. Which is not to say all it takes is time - most people could spend lifetimes and not connect the dots, but that of the few that could, it requires more of you than just the intelligence.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    21. Re:Uh? by Svenne · · Score: 1

      "Dices"?

      --

      Slagborr
    22. Re:Uh? by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 1

      Just because he writes a pop-science book and you've heard of him doesn't make him a 'great' in physics.

      A legitimate goal of Science is to further humanity's understanding of the world around us, no?

      By that criterion, I'd say a pop-science author who is capable of describing complex phenomena in a way that can be understood by "lay people", as Hawking does, has contributed more to the state of Science than an academic who makes a discovery that is only meaningful to the 20 other career postdocs in the world with sufficient background in the field.

    23. Re:Uh? by guruevi · · Score: 1

      Linus Torvalds has a wife and 2 kids - He is a geek AND gets laid.
      I am a geek too and I got laid too at least twice a day while working a full time job and constructing PHP classes in my free time (check my website for my latest DCOP class for PHP).

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
  9. huh? by danielk1982 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "The paradoxical answer, Gleick suggested, is that there are so many brilliant physicists alive today that it has become harder for any individual to stand apart from the pack. In other words, our perception of Einstein as a towering figure is, well, relative."

    There were *many* brilliant physicists in Einstein's time as well.

  10. As modern physicists approach Einstein's fame... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...they become infinitely massive. Hawking achieved 99.99999% of Einstein's fame and he ended up in a wheelchair from the stress.

  11. Hey ScutMon... by DrunkenTerror · · Score: 1

    This isn't a Quickie.

  12. no need for name calling by gadzook33 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Gleick's just jealous (but Wolfram is livid and Feynman is rolling over in his grave).

  13. reign in the drug companies by User+956 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    an interesting editorial by John Horgan that is being run by the New York Times asking "will there ever be another Einstein?"

    With all the parents doping up their kids on antidepressants, I'd say not likely. (We're already seeing that Generation Y can barely wipe its own nose in the workplace. )

    --
    The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
    1. Re:reign in the drug companies by aussie_a · · Score: 2

      That Generation Y article is bunk. "They are asking for more flexibility and have no intentions of becoming a slave to their jobs." It makes it sound like a bad thing. Yeeesh.

    2. Re:reign in the drug companies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, or hooked on Scientology and flakes like Mike Adams who doesn't mention a medical degree on any of the sites where he's hawking his books, magical blue "BioPhotonic Scanner" lasers, sprinkle-on carbohydrate blockers, and the use of specific plants for increasing sexual drive.

    3. Re:reign in the drug companies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The parent post is just another case of "America's youth is going to hell" bitterness (see the comments in this article for more). This one happens to have a "drug companies are evil" twist to it, though; so kudos. Guess what? There are brilliant people working - right now - in graduate school, in high positions in academia, and in industry. Yes, in the United States, as well as many other places in the world. Who do you think designs your cars, your medications, and your operating systems? Who diagnoses your illnesses, designs your buildings, and plans your cities? Trust me, we aren't going to run out of brilliant minds any time soon.

    4. Re:reign in the drug companies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is easily the dumbest post in the entire thread. Even if your claims were true, nobody would ever expect an entire generation of Einsteins -- all you need is one individual who doesn't fit your stereotype to produce the next one.

    5. Re:reign in the drug companies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      With respect to scientific discovery, I'd worry less about the biochemical effects of anti-depressants, per se, and more about a culture that immediately jumps on anyone who challenges any commonly held viewpoint.

      Given that pharmaceutical companies stand to make huge amounts of money by convincing the general public that they are selling a pill that magically cures whatever it is that makes them unhappy, it is almost guaranteed that the pharmaceutical companies claim (and have the general public believing) that anti-depressants are safer and more effective than they really are.

      If a woman is depressed because she has an abusive husband who beats the crap out of her on a regular basis, hopping herself up on anti-depressants isn't magically going to make her husband stop abusing her.

      Now, if there was a drug that made a person more motivated and less fearful then such a drug might give an abused woman the motivation and courage to get out of the abusive relationship. On the other hand, if someone was suicidal and the one thing they wanted was to die but they didn't have the courage to kill themselves then such a drug might give them the motivation and courage to kill themselves.

      Obviously anti-depressants do not correct some mythical "biochemical imbalance" that supposedly exists in all instances of dpression because if they did anti-depressants would actually cure depression with a 100% sucess rate rather than the rate of somewhere around 30% when anti-depressants are combined with other therapies and anti-depressants are also given credit for spontaneous recovery.

      Putting on my tin-foil hat (or at least my cynical hat), the fact the anti-depressants are claimed to cure depression generally but without specifying the exact change in mood that is produced by the biochemical action of anti-depressants combined with the blatant scientific flaws that exist in the studies that the media points to as proof that anti-depressants are safe and effective, is at the very least rather troubling to me.

      Just recently the popular media claimed that some study showed that anti-depressants lower the risk of suicide. Apparently the study looked at people who had started taking anti-dpressants and found that the number of suicide attempts in the three month period before people started taking anti-depressants was the same as the number of suicide attempts in the six month period after people started taking the anti-depressants. If taking anti-depressants was completely uncorrelated with attempting sucide this would show that anti-depressants decreased the risk of suicide by a factor of two.

      Obviously, however, taking anti-depressants is highly correlated with attempting suicide. The way the mental health profession deals with attempted suicide is by prescribing anti-depressants.

      Imagine that anti-depressants were prescribed if and only if someone had been struck by lightning in the last three months. The above methodolgy would show a 100% rate of lightning strike in the three months before anti-depressants were prescribed and a negligible rate of lightning strikes after the anti-depressants were prescribed. According to the above methodology, taking anti-depressants would dramatically lower the rate of lightning strikes.

      Not surprisingly, the above study was funded by the pharmaceutical comapies.

      I may not be paranoid but when the latest and greatest study reported by the media to show that anti-depressants are safe is so obviously scientifically flawed, I do tend to feel very cynical.

    6. Re:reign in the drug companies by johncadengo · · Score: 1

      That's what Tom Cruise said.

      --
      My page.
    7. Re:reign in the drug companies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Sure there is a lot of clever people working on exciting things today, that is stated in the article.

      The downside is that there is not sufficient funding to make them work at peak performance, that too is part of the article.

      More specifically: researchers spend on average 30 percent of their time seeking grants, that is time that I can easily see would be better spent on something more productive, like you know, research.

      As a former reasearcher I can assure you there is a lot of neat stuff in the labs. Lack of funding and fear of litigation is preventing it from reaching the malls. That, however, was not stated in the article.

    8. Re:reign in the drug companies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No question that over-prescription and Big Pharma are problems. But you won't learn about it from Mike Adams that the post above linked to. Mike Adams is a big kook who makes his money selling snake-oil via "email marketing", and just happens to run pretty close to Scientology's CCHR party line.

  14. What about... by Landshark17 · · Score: 0

    Brian Green, Stephen Hawking or Kip Thorne?

    Maybe the reason

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    1. Re:What about... by kid+zeus · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually, not one of them is considered to be in Einstein's class of intellect. The 'smartest' man in physics is supposedly Edward Witten, founder of M-theory. If you listen to the top theoretical physicists talk about him, he seems to be in the running for most brilliant physicist of all time.

    2. Re:What about... by squishybit · · Score: 1

      String theory is patent rubbish and many theoretical physicists say as much. The implications for math are profound. But as a physical theory, it is untestable for one and based on shoddy foundations from what I've understood for second. More like a shotgun wedding instead a natural union like say electromagnetism. Ok, I never got past beginning graduate quantum mechanics but you get enough of a flavor for the way things are done. Checkout the comments by Nobel laureate Sheldon Glashow: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/view-glashow. html

    3. Re:What about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting
      String theory is patent rubbish

      On what grounds?
      But as a physical theory, it is untestable for one

      This is completely false. There are many tests that could confirm string theory. Whether there are any (below the Planck scale an accessible to human experiments) that can falsify it is another matter.
      and based on shoddy foundations from what I've understood for second.

      This is also far from true. The foundations are speculative but there are many physical reasons why those foundations were postulated. Polchinski gives a good overview.

      Ok, I never got past beginning graduate quantum mechanics but you get enough of a flavor for the way things are done.

      I did get past graduate QM, and graduate quantum field theory, general relativity, and string theory as well, and I would respectfully suggest that you do some reading about its motivations and accomplishments before you dismiss it. You will note that Glashow doesn't even call it rubbish, let alone "patent" rubbish (implying that it is obviously wrong). He merely says that it has not yet suceeded in making any new predictions that have been confirmed by experiment — which is true, but does not make a theory "rubbish".

      Personally, I think it is rather overhyped relative to its accomplishments, but the fact remains that it is the best candidate we have for either a "theory of everything" or even just for a theory of quantum gravity (and I am saying this from the perspective of someone who has worked on a competing theory).
    4. Re:What about... by renoX · · Score: 1

      > most brilliant physicist of all time.

      Most brilliant *theoretical* physicists, sorry but that's a different class.

      You know people tend to be interested in theories only when they apply in the real world. Einstein theories did apply in the real world, string theories have not been able to do interesting testable predictions yet, unfortunately..

  15. Applied Theory? by TGK · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Einstein is also credited with a huge crossover from the theoretical to the applied aspects of physics. As a population, we tend to see the theoretical side of physics as more complex and intimidating, but the applied side as more down to earth and relevant to our day to day lives.

    Einstein's work straddled this line within his lifetime, making him a figure of daunting intellectual prowess and yet still accessable (in some small manner) by the average man. Surely this combination of theory and practice has strengthened his legacy.

    More over, Einstein lived at the height of the modernist movement in world history - a time when advances in technology could do no wrong. In the minds of many (and they would be wrong) he single-handedly brought about the revolution in the views society holds on technology. While Einstein is not to be entirely credited or blamed for post-modernism, he is often thought of as the turning point by the public at large.

    Information technology, more than any other force, has accelerated the theoretical side of physics away from the applied aspects of the same. We are capable of manipulating mathematics with far greater precision and finess than the physical world we inhabit. As a consequence, it would seem unlikely that any physicist will straddle that line between the theoretical and applied worlds in the near future.

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    1. Re:Applied Theory? by PenchantToLurk · · Score: 1

      Perhaps society remains unmoved by modern physics because no discoveries with implications of einsteinian proportions are being brought forward.

      Where is cold fusion? Anti-gravity? A replacement for hydrocarbons as an energy source? Anything of significance foretorld in the 50's? Any reason for boundless optimism and hope?

      I'm not seriously suggesting that these should be the singular goals of modern physics. I am saying that with expectations where they are today, anything less is another yawn moment. It will take a dramatic leap, even if it is theoretical, to make another household name with the emotional connection society has with the name 'Einstein'.

    2. Re:Applied Theory? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      • more over => moreover
      • finess => finesse
      • accessable => accessible
  16. Newton by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A strong case could be made that Newton is the greatest physicist of all time, but because of society's ignorance of history and their tendency to most fondly remember that which is closest in time, Einstein gets to be King of the Mountain.

    1. Re:Newton by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Einstein wasn't a quarter as much of a lunatic as Newton was, though.

    2. Re:Newton by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Newton wasn't a lunatic. He was just a homosexual, which would have been a hard thing to be in 1600s England.

    3. Re:Newton by CheshireCatCO · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Hm, I don't think I can agree with that. Newton was unquestionably one of the most brilliant mathematicians of all time. (Most historians will put him in the three-way tie for first with Gauss and Archimedes.) As a scientist, Newton had a sort of mixed track record once you factor out his mathematical breakthroughs. A lot of the things he did were sitting around waiting to be connected up by the math, once the Calculus arrived on the scene. (For example, the inverse-square law of gravity was generally suspected to apply to gravity by many scientists of the day, include Hooke, Wren, and Halley. But none of them could actually prove that it gave the right behaviors for orbits without Newton's mathematical skills.) If you read the works of Galileo, a generation before Newton (and who Newton almost certainly must have read, although I don't have a source on that), you can see that the man was so close with his physical principles, but lacked the mathematical tools to put it all together. (And he lacked the mathematical genius to create the tools.)

      Einstein, on the other hand, was NOT mathematically gifted by any stretch (although he wasn't stupid, either), but had an amazing ability to understand the physical principles and their general consequences. Plus, he was far more loveable than the cold, often caustic Newton.

    4. Re:Newton by EvanED · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's not just a matter of that Einstein is more recent, it's that Newton is wrong. Even though from my understanding Newton's work was a much bigger jump at the time than was Einstein's at his (which is somewhat of a biased view as just yesterday I read most of Feynman's "Six Not-So-Easy Pieces" so am more familiar with the working leading up to special relativity, while I don't know much about the giants Newton stood upon), the fact that its Einstein's, and not Newton's, that marks our best understanding of the universe I think is a major factor in Einstein's fame.

      This is, of course, related to the fact that Einstein is more recent, but still deserves mention.

      (And on a side note, let me just say that learning about aspects of relativity, even as much as I can, has convinced me that if there is a god, He has quite the sense of humor and creativity.)

    5. Re:Newton by mclaincausey · · Score: 2, Interesting
      A lot of the things he did were sitting around waiting to be connected up by the math, once the Calculus arrived on the scene.
      That's an odd thing to say, since Newton invented Calculus. Oh, sure, you can rightly say that Leibniz discovered it slightly before Newton, but since he didn't publish his findings, Newton was forced to discover it for himself.

      Newton was a prodigious asshole, but he was also the most profound physicist, and among the best mathematicians, of all time.

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    6. Re:Newton by Lisandro · · Score: 1

      There are no rights or wrongs in physics - only improving approximations. The model Newton proposed for Gravity was as revolutionary back then as Einsteins' relativity theory was in its time; perhaps even more, and both are useful. Relativity solves some problems (observations that doesn't match predictions) with objects that move close to the speed of light, but's more complex - you can use both theories depending on the grade of accuracy vs. work you need.

          In that sense, you can rest assured someone will discover something that will extend/prove 'wrong' relativity as well some time in the future. Remember, it's a theory, not a fact. A theory that matches reality very well so far though.

    7. Re:Newton by techno-vampire · · Score: 1
      It's not just a matter of that Einstein is more recent, it's that Newton is wrong.

      Newton isn't wrong. When dealing with the type of phenomenums he was, his answers are spot on. It's when you get into extreme conditions, such as nearing the speed of light, or very high gravity, that you need to factor in Einstein's corrections. If you were to calculate the motion of a pitched baseball under Newtoinian and Einsteinin phsyics, the difference would be too small to measure, and for all practical purposes, they'd give exactly the same answer.

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    8. Re:Newton by EvanED · · Score: 3, Informative
      If you were to calculate the motion of a pitched baseball under Newtoinian and Einsteinin phsyics, the difference would be too small to measure, and for all practical purposes, they'd give exactly the same answer.

      I'll agree that if you're using physical laws to do calculations and you use Einstein instead of Newton to calculate the flight of a baseball, you're doing way too much work.

      But that doesn't make Newton right.

      I'm gonna quote Feynman because he expresses my feelings very well. This is from Six Easy Pieces (p3 in my copy; you can also find it in the "atoms in motion" chapter of Lectures), but I should say that this is a thought I've had long before reading this:

      We said that the laws of nature are approximate: that we first find the "wrong" ones, and then we find the "right" ones. .... For example, the mass of an object never seems to change: a spinning top has the same weight as a still one. So a "law" was invented: mass is constant, independent of speed. That "law" is now found to be incorrect. Mass is found to increase with velocity, but appreciable increases require velocities near that of light. A true law is: if an object moves with a speed of less than one hundred miles per second the mass is constant to within one part in a million. In some such approximate form this is a correct law. So in practice one might think that the new law makes no significant difference. Well, yes and no. For ordinary speeds we can certainly forget it and use the simple constant-mass law as a good approximation. But for high speeds we are wrong, and the higher the speed, the more wrong we are.

      Finally, and most interesting, philosophically we are completely wrong with the approximate law. Our entire picture of the world has to be altered even though the mass changes by only a little bit. This is a very peculiar thing about the philosophy, or the ideas, behind the laws. Even a very small effect sometimes requires profound changes in our ideas.
    9. Re:Newton by EvanED · · Score: 1

      BTW, that's Feynman's emphasis, not mine.

    10. Re:Newton by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Einstein, on the other hand, was NOT mathematically gifted by any stretch

      That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard in my life. I challenge you to find even one working physicist who agrees with it.

    11. Re:Newton by CheshireCatCO · · Score: 1

      that's what I was saying. When Newton invented the Calculus, he was able to complete the work that so many had wanted to do, but been unable to. His mathematical abilities are what allowed him to make the scientific discoveries, not his brilliance as a scientist.

      And you have your people reversed. Newton discovered the Calculus first and then sat on it for decades. In the meantime, Leibiniz rediscovered it. Bitterness ensued.

    12. Re:Newton by CheshireCatCO · · Score: 1

      I *am* a working physicist. You were saying?

      He wasn't really that gifted at math by his own admission. I'm not saying he was a raging idiot because he was certainly capable. But there's a big gap between being able to use mathematics and being able to invent whole new areas of mathematics. And he wasn't up for the latter. Which is why, when he was working on General Relativity, he had to seek outside help with the math. (This is no insult to the man. In fact, it's a helluva compliment. He knew when he was in over his head and he had the balls to seek help. As a result, his theory saw the light of day and we're better off for it.)

    13. Re:Newton by mclaincausey · · Score: 1
      His mathematical abilities are what allowed him to make the scientific discoveries, not his brilliance as a scientist.
      Well then how do you explain insights into physical phenomena that Newton discovered that are governed by very simple math? Consider the laws of motion, and equations like F = ma. That requires the type of A-HA! insight that goes beyond math. Science and philosophy were the same domain in Newton's time, and his insights were philosophical AND mathematical. Newton did a lot of research and discussed theories with his peers and published. As much as the era would allow, he was a scientist, and a brilliant one.
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    14. Re:Newton by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've nothing againts homosexuality. But honestly, what is with the insinuation that all famous historical characters were such? It seems as silly as wondering what Jesus' skin color was.

      I would say that Newton's apparent lunacy might be more accurately attributed to mercury poisoning. I do believe he dabbled in alchemy and was known to suffer from the condition because of it from time to time.

    15. Re:Newton by CheshireCatCO · · Score: 1

      A lot of those ideas where already out there, actually. Galileo certainly knew and appreciated the first law, for example.

      Also, don't forget that Newton never said "F=ma". He said that F = dp/dt, an inherently calculus-based statement. Without the Calculus, that definition is almost useless.

      As a scientist, he was actually kind of sketchy. He did some great experimental research, but also was very convinced of some really sketchy things when he should have known better, as a scienist.

    16. Re:Newton by mclaincausey · · Score: 1
      As a scientist, he was actually kind of sketchy. He did some great experimental research, but also was very convinced of some really sketchy things when he should have known better, as a scienist.
      If that undermines his legacy as a scientist, then you have to also apply that (IMO strange) estimation to several other, previously considered great, scientists. There are plenty of puzzling cases where great scientists have been convinced of things that should have been clearly false to them, even by their own findings. There have even been cases where scientists were basically proven to be wrong, and continued to either defend or reformulate their wrong hypothesis or claim they never said it, or perhaps said it as a Socratic exercise or a joke. There are also plenty of cases where great scientists have done incredible work and made great discoveries, but have failed to put things together and draw the obvious, final conclusion.

      Einstein, for a prominent example, should have also known better than to reject quantum mechanics when his own work suggested it, and he certainly should never have made the entirely unscientific statement regarding this rejection: "God does not play dice."

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    17. Re:Newton by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Einstein never rejected quantum mechanics, only Born's probabilistic interpretation of it.

    18. Re:Newton by CheshireCatCO · · Score: 1

      The "God does not play at dice with the universe" was a metaphorical way of saying he didn't believe the probabilistic perspective on QM. Even if you are unable to spot that, then you're reading it as a purely non-scientific statement of faith and it has nothing to do with him as a scientist any more than if he had said, "God is merciful."

      Einstein rejected some of the conclusions of QM, but none of the parts he disputed were tested at that time. We've only just tested the "spooky action at a distance" predictions that he disliked. And a lot of his objections really came down to Bohr's interpretation of QM, which is purely a matter of philosphy and not science. Scientists are allowed to disagree with each other and even be wrong to the extent that the data allow. And they're allowed to reject other people's extensions of their own works.

      If a scientist adheres to a wrong theory after the data have shown him or her to be wrong, that's bad science. There have been cases of this, to be sure. Of course, there's usually a significant period where the data are not yet overwelming for or against an idea.

  17. The Conclusion is astonishing by glomph · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yes, in the past several hundred years, at any given time, there have been brilliant physicists. I've known/worked for some of the best. There are one or two who really stand out in each era of physics, and Einstein overlapped several of these. Newton, Kepler, Galileo, Maxwell, et al are the true greats, and Einstein is in that category.

    1. Re:The Conclusion is astonishing by MosesJones · · Score: 1


      Newton in the same bracket? Lets not over-play everyone else here. The rest (including Einstein) are all behind him (Einstein on Newton's legacy) not just for his impact in physics, or his postulation (which he didn't put in the final optics as it wasn't "testable" hence only a hypothesis not a theory) of wave particle duality. This was the bloke who created the scientific method, created a new branch of maths and (when head of the Royal Mint) came up with a fraud prevention device (milled edges) for coins. He also forced a change in English Law that enabled a greater freedom of religon which led in no small part to the rise of organisations like the quakers et al who drove the Industrial Revolution.

      Einstein was a certifiable, grade A genius. Newton, in part thanks to the point in history he appeared at, changed not just Physics but all of science and a large part of the rest of the world.

      There will not be another Newton, or Einstein (he wasn't the "next Newton") there will only be the next "X", and I for one am looking forward to what the smart-arsed bastard comes up with.

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  18. Of course there will be another by TubeSteak · · Score: 0

    Einstein was lucky that he managed to get into science while it was still a (relatively) young field.

    The problem isn't that there are an excess of smart scientists around, it's that the field has matured and many of the discoveries are incremental to our understanding/implementation of existing science.

    I'm sure we'll celebrate the people who get teleportation to work someday, but I doubt the person or persons who figured the math will get as much credit for it. Basically, our material sciences hasn't advanced nearly as quickly as the theoretical stuff. We know how to do a lot of things, but they're either impossible right now, or impractical due to cost.

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    1. Re:Of course there will be another by pinkocommie · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm reasonably certain that people around the turn of the last century were also saying similar things and i'm reasonably certain a century into the future the same will be true when they look back at us. I guess one could say maturity would depend on ones perspective.

  19. Hindsight is 20/20 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Its very easy to say today that Einstein's works are simple and obvious. Thats because they are first year teachings for most students today. However, we stand on the shoulders of giants. Someday a lot of things will seem very obvious, and those people who do the hard work of making that so will be worth of comparison with Einstein.

    1. Re:Hindsight is 20/20 by renoX · · Score: 1

      >Its very easy to say today that Einstein's works are simple and obvious.

      I trust that you haven't read about 'general relativity' then, which I wouldn't quite call 'simple and obvious'.

      People always forget about general relativity, but it's really its biggest achivement, most of the other contributions of Einstein were more or less 'in the air', hadn't he find them others would probably have made the same contribution just a bit later, general relativity on the other hand was very far from being 'in the air'..

    2. Re:Hindsight is 20/20 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Well, Hilbert also arrived at the Einstein field equation virtually simultaneously with Einstein by rather different reasoning, although there is some historical argument about whether one of them cribbed ideas from the other.

    3. Re:Hindsight is 20/20 by HuguesT · · Score: 1

      Hilbert was working on GR as well, but he didn't have the physical insights Einstein had.

    4. Re:Hindsight is 20/20 by CommieOverlord · · Score: 1

      we stand on the shoulders of giants

      You do realize that the whole quote about standing on the shoulders of giants was not intended to be a compliment, right? It was Newton offering insult to Robert Hooke.

  20. Deep vs Narrow by ThatGeek · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I would argue two points.

    First, once you get an iconic person, that's it. The game is up for quite a while. Ever notice how all the caricatures of muscle-types take after Governor Arnold? Or how all psychiatrists take after Freud? This is not because we haven't had people with more muscles (we have) or analysts who have not helped larger numbers of people. When you have an icon, you might as well keep it. It's a reference that everyone already "gets".

    Second, I would argue that as time goes on, it becomes harder and harder to dominate a field. Look at da Vinci. He was a brilliant man to be sure. But if he were alive today, he'd never have been able to master so many fields. There is just so much research out there about the most minute aspect of any field that no one would have time to keep up. And why would we idolize the guy worked in one very small subset, when these people of past years could dominate so many fields? In a way, they had it easy. Anything they looked at represented a new area of science much the way that any explorer who sailed from Europe a thousand years ago would have been able to claim a new territory. It's much harder now; I've tried!

    Also, for those of you who have read the story, I suppose the article should not have asked "Will there be another Einstein?", but rather "Will there be another ThatGeek?". And no, there won't be as I've already registered the nick.

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    1. Re:Deep vs Narrow by i_should_be_working · · Score: 1

      Tied to there being so much research out there, there are also just so many physicists out there. In any given specific subject there are at least several groups around the world working on the exact same thing. And with the openness of physics today no one person can dominate a field anymore.

      If one person had come up with modern quantum mechanics (even just the stuff that Einstein wasn't involved in) they would surely be as famous as Einstein. I call him Schrosenberghor.

    2. Re:Deep vs Narrow by starX · · Score: 1

      why would we idolize the guy worked in one very small subset, when these people of past years could dominate so many fields?

      Because working in many small subsets can give you an outisde perspective into potentially insular fields, thereby creating a certain amount of cross polination. I've got one foot in the arts, and one in the sciences, and it never ceases to amaze me how methods/processes commonplace in one are unheard of in the other. Granted, transplanting theories and methodologies doesn't make sense all of the time, but it does enough of the time for me to shake my head anytime I hear a theatre student say they've no use for calculus, or when I hear an engineering student say they've no use for literature. I would like to think a modern-day DaVinci would still be relevant, as he would help us come to a better understanding of "the big picture." The key is not stepping too far into either one so you don't lose the view of both.

      Then again, the mass production of education might have pigeon-holed him into a drawing 101 class that left him with no taste for drawing, or anything else he is noted for. Perhaps the high costs of malpractice insurance (and general difficulty of exhuming cadavers) would have frightened him away from medicine. I've seen many times over in this thread where people have said that the great discoveries have already been made, and we now must work to refine those discoveries, but I can't help but wonder if we're so focussed on refining the theories of our greatest thinkers that we're discouraging the next Einstein.

      But remember, I'm no expert.

    3. Re:Deep vs Narrow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I once read a brilliant article in Atlantic Monthly that made an argument similar to what your first point is, but slightly different. I would find it, but I'm too lazy to figure out what the name of it was and how to link to it.

      The basic argument was that the Genius has replaced the Saint as a sort of focus of idol worship in contemporary culture, paralleling a shift in emphasis from religious to secular.

      The idea was that individuals such as Einstein, while brilliant, were really not all that much more brilliant than his contemporaries (e.g., Godel, Schrodinger, others whom have become forgotten outside of certain circles), but that because of historical circumstances and cultural variables, he became elevated to the level that he is today. Einstein, the authors argue, sort of became a figurehead, an idol whose image and symbolic meaning came to surpass the individual he really was, to the point that it is impossible to discuss him as he really was.

      I'm not trying to say that Einstein wasn't smart, or worthy of praise. I'm also not able to articulate the argument of the article as well as its original author. But I think it's an interesting idea, one that I very much agree with.

      It's similar to what you are saying about certain "prototypes" appearing that society seems to identify with and emulate.

    4. Re:Deep vs Narrow by Tablizer · · Score: 2, Funny

      Anything they looked at represented a new area of science much the way that any explorer who sailed from Europe a thousand years ago would have been able to claim a new territory. It's much harder now; I've tried!

      I am not sure if that is a story we want to hear or want to avoid. Did you by chance try to be Nepolean also? :-)

    5. Re:Deep vs Narrow by Nikker · · Score: 1

      Look at da Vinci. He was a brilliant man to be sure. But if he were alive today, he'd never have been able to master so many fields

      I would have to argue that and point out you are showing effect of being blindly lead.

      The state of genius is one of understanding. Do you think Aristotle given a keyboard and google could not figure out how to submit a query?

      Making such a blanket statement is intresting as it is a far lean towards technology or in a sence isolating (reserving?) the field to someone or something that has yet to be shows the genius of humans in general. We pick qualities which we feel would be a "key" to ourselves and look for that trait in others.

      Maybe here more than most, people would be looking for a person who can create or understand the average humans needs and wants from technology. The mass would be able to apply this and a software revolution would incur. Possibly programming language would be taught side-by-side english in schools.

      Does this person exist? Maybe. Will we as a race recodnize this person? Maybe.

      The most exciting thing is some one like Einstein was needed by evreybody as he seemed to let evreybody answer those important questions. Even though there may not be a direct understanding of the equations, like a house of cards peoples guards droped to him.

      I personally feel there will be facing a problem as with our education system and us as a race gaining intelligence as a whole. So far we mark ourselves on a strict bell curve. We believe that there is only a finite number of those who are intelligent and that number is very small. As we progress minds that may have been destined to daydreaming and manual labour will be allowed to develop and many more methods and ways of thinking will emerge. These again will be seen as the "lesser intelligent".

      Lather Rince Repeat

      For quick info on how Einstein fulfilled the publics needs

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    6. Re:Deep vs Narrow by argStyopa · · Score: 1

      By way of visualization, I've always thought of the sum of human achievement/knowledge as an expanding circle, from the center point of complete ignorance.

      If you presume human intellectual power is pretty much constant and is likewise represented by a circle of the totality of what a person can comprehend/know, logically then in the early stages of human endeavor it's possible for a single extraordinary person to understand a significant fraction of the extant human ideas.

      Look at the giants of the renaissance - da Vinci of course, but others as well. Most of them were not only scientists (encompassing physics, chemistry, astronomy at the very least), but were painters, theologians, philosophers, heck, they were probably even good cooks.

      But now, as the scope of human knowledge has continued to inflate, take this same sized circle of a single person and it can no longer cover a signficant amount of area, but is relegated to either a generalism (in the center, eschewing all the cutting edge knowledge around the boundaries) or specialization in one narrow field and perhaps one or two closely related others.

      I dunno, as a visualization it works for me.

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      -Styopa
    7. Re:Deep vs Narrow by thomville · · Score: 1

      I have to agree with the second point - that it is much harder, if not impossible, for one person to have the impact across many different fields. The body of knowledge that is out there today versus Einstein's day makes it virtually impossible for one person to keep track of it all. Witness the internet information explosion, which allows us all access to so much information that activity can grind to a halt. Or, as Ratbert puts it, "how did people look busy before computers?"

  21. In fact by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "I wish I'd read that book by that wheelchair guy..."

    I used that on the flyer advertising the general relativity course I taught.
  22. mirror by madpiggy_dj · · Score: 0

    mirror provided by me http://www.thebesttrek.net/forum/index.php?topic=3 32.0 no registration required but would be appreciated

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  23. Einstein could be understood by Jjeff1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think a lot of his popularity has to deal with the fact that E=mc^2 is simple enough for anyone to remember. That and his theories were used to create the atomic bomb, ending WWII.

    Those 2 things make Einstein much more tangible to the average person. One can remember what he actually did, and see an enormous practical application.

    1. Re:Einstein could be understood by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      Sadly I forget her name, but it was not Einstien who showed that E=MV^2. She proved Newton (E=MV) to be wrong by dropping solid balls into clay and measuring the depth. Einstien turned the whole thing on it's head and asked "What if the speed of light really is constant, could space and time vary?". I don't know if it was deliberate but it actually questioned Newtons assumption (time is constant) that formed the basis of his Principa[sic].

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    2. Re:Einstein could be understood by Dr.+Spork · · Score: 3, Insightful
      I don't think you appreciate the genius of Einstein completely enough. Special relativity, which has E=mc^2 as a consequence, would have been proposed by somebody real soon after 1905, had Einstein chosen to be a bullfighter instead of a physicist. I mean, the Lorentz transform was already around; Einstein just said it wasn't a device for calculation but an actual description of reality. Good idea, but not one that we needed an Einstein for.

      I think general relativity is a very different story. Without Einstein, it might have taken decades to work it out. I mean, really, it's just an amazing piece of work, and something that's hard to work up to incrementally.

      So you're right about E=mc^2 being easy for people to remember, but in a way that's a shame, because it shouldn't be taken as anything like his greatest work.

    3. Re:Einstein could be understood by mmontour · · Score: 1

      That and his theories were used to create the atomic bomb, ending WWII

      Einstein had some political involvement in the development of the atomic bomb, but he does not deserve much of the technical credit. "E=mc^2" a bit of useless trivia in the context of developing an atomic bomb. Fission of uranium had been observed experimentally, and had been shown to produce a large amount of energy as well as an excess of neutrons (thus enabling a chain reaction).

    4. Re:Einstein could be understood by mc6809e · · Score: 1


      So you're right about E=mc^2 being easy for people to remember, but in a way that's a shame, because it shouldn't be taken as anything like his greatest work.

      Personally I wish more emphasis would be placed on his discovery that magnetism is actually a relativistic effect.

      I don't think many people realize just how close relativity is to them in a simple electromagnet.

    5. Re:Einstein could be understood by transatlantique78 · · Score: 0
      Sadly I forget her name, ... She proved Newton (E=MV) to be wrong by dropping solid balls into clay and measuring the depth.



      That would be Émilie du Châtelet.



      http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/phl302/philosopher s/chatelet.html

      --
      You are finite. Zathras is finite. This... is wrong tool.
  24. The atomic bomb ruined physics in many ways by DrJimbo · · Score: 1, Insightful
    Before the invention of the atomic bomb, physics was a lot like mathematics: under-funded and only pursued out of love for the field itself.

    After the invention of the atomic bomb, governments realized that physicists could actually do something useful. Funding poured in and physics became a business.

    A different but similar thing happened to programming in the dotcom boom. The field got flooded with people who were in it for the money and not for the love of the game.

    --
    We don't see the world as it is, we see it as we are.
    -- Anais Nin
    1. Re:The atomic bomb ruined physics in many ways by wass · · Score: 3, Insightful
      After the invention of the atomic bomb, governments realized that physicists could actually do something useful. Funding poured in and physics became a business.

      That's right, it's not like governments ever funded people to use physics to predict the trajectory of a bullet from a large gun before the atomic bomb. And moreso, it's not like they ever decided that for large distances the Coriolis force and air resistance need to be properly accounted for and thus they never needed to fund the development of electric computers.

      Nor did they ever need to understand physics to figure out the design of aerofoil wings, or the best shape to make ship hulls, before the atom bomb.

      --

      make world, not war

    2. Re:The atomic bomb ruined physics in many ways by DeadPrez · · Score: 1

      Sadly, much of the history of physics seems to be directly, or indirectly due to man's need to make war.

    3. Re:The atomic bomb ruined physics in many ways by wass · · Score: 1
      Sadly, much of the history of physics seems to be directly, or indirectly due to man's need to make war.

      I'm not really as nihilistic as that. IMHO, true physics itself is really the study of the music of the spheres. However, it's applied physics and engineering where the dollars come in for war.

      --

      make world, not war

    4. Re:The atomic bomb ruined physics in many ways by DrJimbo · · Score: 1
      The examples you gave were engineering problems not physics problems. As you said yourself, people were funded to use physics, which is much different from the work of a physicist: developing new physics. I am not claiming that all physics before the invention of the atomic bomb was useless.

      But as your examples illustrate, the military was primarily interested in using engineers to apply physical principles that were discovered a hundred years previously.

      Before the bomb, cutting edge physics wasn't considered to contain such immediately useful results.

      Perhaps the biggest exception to this idea was the invention and development of radar. Some of the top theoretical physicist worked on developing radar. There was a lot of overlap between the techniques they used for radar and the field theories they were working on at the time.

      But again, most of the physics of radar was discovered a hundred years early and codified in Maxwell's equations.

      --
      We don't see the world as it is, we see it as we are.
      -- Anais Nin
    5. Re:The atomic bomb ruined physics in many ways by DeepHurtn! · · Score: 1
      Are the two really so neatly separable? Your true physics exists as much as Platonic Ideals do..

      I'm not saying that so-called "pure research" is bad, or that it shouldn't happen, or anything like that; but it is deceptive, I think, to think that any research happens in a vacuum outside of concrete social situations. Vonnegut's "Cat's Cradle" is a fun read that explores the issue, if you're interested.

    6. Re:The atomic bomb ruined physics in many ways by Jim_Callahan · · Score: 2, Informative

      The shape of ships' hulls had nothing at all to do with physics predictions. Ideal shapes were determined by a fellow named Froud(sp) in Britain several centuries ago by carving wooden models and putting them through the liquid equivalent of a wind tunnel. Completely empirical process, no mathematical modelling whatsoever beforehand (though one result, the dimensionless Froud number, is one of the most important dimensionless numbers in engineering, right up there with the Reynold's number).
       
      So, yeah, as another fellow stated, it was an engineering problem, not a physics problem. Even today, the use of physics directly applied to the problem of ship's hulls will break your computer if you attempt to solve for a limit on something like speed or overall drag resistance. (Not that it can't be solved, in a way, but it imvolves what my professors call "engineering approximations", i.e. assumptions that are maybe true in limited circumstances).
       
      Ballistics, I'm told, was similarly empirical, though I don't know anyone specializing in Aero so verifying your assertion regarding airplane wings would take more work than I'm willing to exert.

      --
      ...it's really a sad day for America when we require a goddamn ACT OF CONGRESS to make our DVD players work properly. ~
    7. Re:The atomic bomb ruined physics in many ways by DeadPrez · · Score: 1

      For a scientist, you sure can misuse big words.

      And yes, follow the money, if you are part of a perpetual system between theory and applied science then you are working for the common good of both.

      Kinda like the explorer who goes out meets and greets the indigenous peoples, creates magnificent scientific report, only so 50 or 100 years later a colony can be established. Everyone but the explorer seems to know he's setting up the invasion.

    8. Re:The atomic bomb ruined physics in many ways by radtea · · Score: 1

      I don't know anyone specializing in Aero so verifying your assertion regarding airplane wings would take more work than I'm willing to exert.

      I'm a physicist with a undergraduate degree in mechanical/aeronautical engineering. Pre-war aeronautical engineering was very heavily empirical, although there was some use of exact solutions (the elipical wing of the Spitfire was the result of the mathematical simplicity of treating that particular shape, IIRC). Heavy investment in the physics of flight was a post-war phenomena.

      --
      Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
  25. Resume padding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    What are you, an immortal vampire or something?

    1. Re:Resume padding by GeffDE · · Score: 2, Funny

      Dude, check out his ID! With one that low, he must be. D'oh!

      --
      It has been a nervous year, with people beginning to feel like Christian Scientists with appendicitis.
    2. Re:Resume padding by Slashed+Otter · · Score: 1

      Maybe he's also a brillian physicist and managed to figure out that whole "time travel" thing. Or quite possibly he managed to find a scrap of the DNA of some of them and found a way to clone them. He could even be some reknown psychic who's able to channel people who've died. There's a whole host of more plausible explanations than being a vampire.

      Just because someone lives in his parents basement and never sees the sun doesn't make them a vampire, it just makes them your typical /. reader.

    3. Re:Resume padding by Peldor · · Score: 1

      If he doesn't have fangs, I say we cut off his head and see if the building explodes.

  26. that, but also. by User+956 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Part of Einstein's fame probably has a lot to do the the impedending atomic bomb.

    That, but also, he was an interesting character. He's got a catchy tagline (E=MC2). He had funny hair.

    The fact that he was utterly brilliant, and revolutionized the way we see the world takes a back seat to the fact that your average person sees him as they would a cartoon character. Until we get another person with a comparable combination of brilliance and memorable traits, then no, we won't see "another Einstein."

    But that doesn't mean we'll never make any more progress in physics.

    --
    The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
    1. Re:that, but also. by toddbu · · Score: 1, Funny
      That, but also, he was an interesting character. He's got a catchy tagline (E=MC2). He had funny hair.

      Chuck Norris is an interesting character. Chuck Norris has got a catchy tagline ("Guns don't kill people. Chuck Norris kills people."). Chuck Norris had funny hair. Yet Chuck Norris will never be as famous as Albert Einstein. (I've heard it rumored that Chuck Norris even discovered a new theory of relativity involving multiple universes in which Chuck Norris is even more badass than in this one, but he chose not to reveal it so that Einstein would not be overshadowed by the greatness of Chuck Norris.)

      --
      If you don't want crime to pay, let the government run it.
    2. Re:that, but also. by Jim_Callahan · · Score: 1

      A lot of physicists are characters. I remember a story about Niels Bohr answering the question "how would you use a barometer to measure the height of the empire state-building?" as an undergraduate, it cracked me up. Especially when it got to the part about offering the building's janitor a shiny new barometer in exchange for being told the height of the building.

      --
      ...it's really a sad day for America when we require a goddamn ACT OF CONGRESS to make our DVD players work properly. ~
    3. Re:that, but also. by Zwets · · Score: 1
      He's got a catchy tagline (E=MC2).

      That's interesting, isn't it? Because E=MC^2 isn't catchy at all, when you think about it. It's a frickin' maths formula! How many people can quote Pythagoras? Or Newton's laws of motion? Far less, that's for sure.

      The truth is, it only seems catchy now because everyone knows it. And everyone knows it because of Einstein's popularity, not the other way around.

      --
      One of the lessons of history is that nothing is often a good thing to do and always a clever thing to say. - Will Duran
  27. It's All Relative... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

    In other words, our perception of Einstein as a towering figure is, well, relative.

    Yeah, Isaac Newton felt the same way after the apple hit him in the head.

  28. Einstein had Charisma by wass · · Score: 3, Informative
    Einstein did amazing research across the whole gamut of physics, that's something that is much harder to do these days. For example, his miraculous year, he posited the theory of special relativity, came up with the photoelectric effect (which was a major leap for the study of quantum mechanics), and documented Brownian Motion (which was a major proof for accepting statistical mechanics of particles, especially in fluids). But that was just one year, he made brilliant subsequent contributions to quantum mechanics and of course the theory of general relativity as well.

    Einstein put Relativity on the table, which was previously unknown except to a few as something funky going on with Maxwell's equations under a Galilean transformation. This was an entirely new field. And, when extended into General Relativity, is a huge deal. Not many people get to discover a whole new field of physics like that. Newton did with mechanics. But with E&M, it was several people making discoveries, such as Ampere and Faraday and some others. And the full theory wasn't really collected nicely until Maxwell, who also corrected Ampere's Law. And that's only the classical theory, Quantum Electro-Dynamics is another huge thing. But within classical E&M, you can say Maxwell fully documented it, but it was already an explored field (no pun intended, seriously).

    Thermodynamics and Statistical Mechanics had many people make major contributions, specifically when thermodynamics was found to be described entirely within statistical mechanical formalism. Boltzmann made major contributions, eg coming up with entropy and statistical ensembles, but his work wasn't accepted by the community and he ultimately wound up killing himself.

    One physicist that may have come close to Einstein in breadth is my favorite, Lev Davidovic Landau. Any graduate student of physics should be familiar with at least some of his ten-volume "Course of Theoretical Physics", otherwise known as Landau-Lifshitz. Landau's grad students were known to be confused during meetings where he would shift topics from superconductivity to hadron interactions, etc. Landau made many amazing contributions, and also won a Nobel Prize, but he wasn't able to open up any entirely new fields of study like Einstein was able to. He made contributions to other fields, such as 2nd-order phase transitions, superconductivity and superfluidity, etc, but no entirely new fields.

    Finally, Einstein was also rather active politically and socially, he didn't confine his efforts to the laboratory (well, really his desk since he was a theorist). He also had quite a unique physical appearance, which also contributed to his popularity. But I think, from a popular point of view, his contribution of relativity, which is probably one of the biggest scientific blowbacks to something that was previously accepted as scientifically true and complete, was the dominant factor. Of course scientifically he made many other major contributions, but for the newspapers, trumping over Newton is a rather 'hot' story.

    --

    make world, not war

    1. Re:Einstein had Charisma by Dr.+Spork · · Score: 1

      Great post, thanks for getting the facts right and also for mentioning Lev Landau, who really was amazing.

  29. Didn't anyone see Family Guy? by TheOtherAgentM · · Score: 3, Funny

    Einstein worked at a patent office and stole Smith's Theory of Relativity.

    1. Re:Didn't anyone see Family Guy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Family guy rip-off anyone?

    2. Re:Didn't anyone see Family Guy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Didn't you read the title of his post? "Didn't anyone see Family Guy?"

  30. My take on this... by N1ghtFalcon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's funny, because I actually spent quite a long time a while back thinking about this issue. In the end, I would say it's really difficult to give a certain 'yes' or 'no' answer.

    On one hand, there is the issue that information that humans possess is increasing at exponential rate, if not faster. At one point in history, you could be a painter, a sculptor, a mathematician, a philosopher, a physicist, among other things, and still be useful to the society in all of those areas. Today however, such thing is unrealistic due to the fact of how deep each area goes, and how much must be learned of the works of those who came before you in order for you to get to the level of being able to make personal contributions.

    On the other hand, you do have to remember that a century or two ago, physics was thought to be a "finished" science. As in, many physicists around the world believed that the Newtonian model has given them all that is needed, and most viewed physics as a done deal. We understand how it works, nothing more is left to learn, move along. Then came Einstein and turned the whole thing upside down.

    While on my commutes to and from university last semester, I downloaded audio lectures on particle physics. One of the very first things the professor said was "today, most particle physicists believe that we have a solid understanding of what the world is made up of, and that, unlike a few decades ago, we really have gotten to the bottom layer of the universe." He ended the lectures (which were extremely interesting btw) by saying that as good as the standard model of physics is, we still have 23 quantum numbers that are unattainable through mathematics, ideas which defy logic, and a bunch of other theories like string which may also be onto something.

    Overall, I think that if any conclusion is to be made about the state of physics today, I would say that no, Einstein hasn't left the building. In my opinion, we are still missing something crucial about the way the world operates, but we may not realize this until advances in other technology areas such as space travel. Individuals still can make great breakthroughs, but because of issues such as the amount of foundational knowledge, the number of people working on the same things, and the money needed for some of the research, it may be more likely that future discoveries will need to be left to teams of scientists, rather than individuals.

    1. Re:My take on this... by Fnkmaster · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The problem is all these nifty unification-type theories only have observable, testable consequences at energy levels far, far beyond that we can produce in any earth-bound laboratory, and we haven't figured out any ways to observe cosmological effects that they might predict either (probably because those energy levels only happen in the early nanoseconds of the universe).

      Unless and until somebody can work around that rather fundamental set of issues, it seems like these more aesthetically pleasing models of the universe that produce the same observable effects as the rather ugly hodge-podge we call the Standard Model are likely to remain in the realm of mental masturbation.

      As soon as you realize all of this, pursuing further study in physics becomes rather unappealing, or at least it did to me. I look at most modern physics research and I am beyond underwhelmed by it. The only people reaching for the big questions are basically mathematicians and nobody really cares which flavor-of-the-day theory they generate next week because it has no meaningful consequences for the real world.

      There are some unsolved physics problems but only a few of them have the potential (in my judgment) to change the way we view the universe, and those that do will require incredible intuitive leaps from what science currently offers in the way of explanatory tools. Oh, and few people seem to work on these hard questions and if you express an interest in working on them, expect to be treated like a quack.

    2. Re:My take on this... by BillyBlaze · · Score: 1

      I don't see any problem with searching for or even relying upon a more simple theory, even if the proceeding theory describes all current observations, as long as the new theory is also consistent with them. To put it another way, given that the theory of relativity was more aesthetically pleasing than the other theories of the day, and supposing it were devised before the experimental data that necessitated it was found, what would have been wrong with adopting it early? This is Occam's razor. Of course, a theory being developed before it's necessary is rare, but it might have happened in quantum mechanics.

  31. Re:Comparing Einstein to today's physicists is NOT by scotch · · Score: 1
    His brilliance and IQ can never be matched. Let's keep it that way.

    This is a statement of staggering stupidity.

    --
    XML causes global warming.
  32. General improvement? by Twisted64 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I can't say much in regards to Einstein, but I know that it is getting harder to point out musical geniuses, because the bar is constantly being raised. There are thousands of violinists, who are perfectly happy to practice all day to produce perfect performances. Anything less and they simply won't be noticed. I heard a professional musician comment, some years ago, that nobody stands out any more, because so many are at the level of Heifitz.

    I played the violin for about 15 years, and had to stop, because for me the strain of a performance + the need for constant practice overshadows the joy received from playing. I now play quite happily at the back of the second violins in an orchestra - room for fun, and mistakes are rarely heard :)

    Anyway, my point is, perhaps something similar is happening in the field of science.

    --
    Consciousness is a myth. Trust me.
    1. Re:General improvement? by mattwarden · · Score: 1

      Einstein played the violin too?!

    2. Re:General improvement? by Quirk · · Score: 2, Funny
      ...so many are at the level of Heifitz.

      Not that I, by any stretch of imagination or schooling have the right to comment, but, I will.

      No, there aren't many who are at the level of Heifitz.

      As an aside, your post and profession provide me with an opportunity to ask if you know whether an anecdote I've heard is apocryphal. I was told Fritz Kreisler loved the night life and hated to practise. On occasion he shared the stage with Sergei Rachmaninov who would request Kreisler put in some audition time only to be brushed off. During a joint performance Kreisler lost his place and while improvising leaned into Rachmaninov and asked: "Sergi, where are we?". Rachmaninov was said to have tersely replied: "Carnegie Hall ."

      True, or apocryphal? Do you know?

      --
      "Academicians are more likely to share each other's toothbrush than each other's nomenclature."
      Cohen
    3. Re:General improvement? by Ragica · · Score: 1

      With all due respect to the noble voilin, it's still just the violin... no matter how perfected, and excellent the players. Einstein introduced us to a new sort of violin, which many have been working to perfect, destroy or surpass. But it's still a violin.

    4. Re:General improvement? by DeepHurtn! · · Score: 1
      Heh, I'm a former bass trombonist (now studying musicology), and you reminded me of a quote one of my teachers told me back in my performance days, told to him by one of his teachers: "If you're not in the practice room at 6 in the morning, someone else is!"

      That is, unfortunately, just the fact of performance in today's world; you know what it's like for orchestral wannabes. Almost any given large university/conservatory in North America provides enough graduates on any given instrument to take up every orchestral job opening on the continent for that year. If you're going to succeed, you need to want it *so* badly you're willing to live a life of that sort of intensity; and even then, you need a helluva lotta luck to actually get a fulltime gig, and be willing to spend a lot of time travelling around playing auditions on your own dime...

      Musicology really isn't any better, but I've found that hours reading books is more up my alley than hours in the practice room.

    5. Re:General improvement? by bronney · · Score: 1

      Well, it's similar. But not identical. For me for example, I only had 2 credits from highschool years playing the "keyboard". But now I mainly play for enjoyment and make tunes for fun.

      For my cousin who has a grade 10 piano level, he now too only play for fun. But during those 10 years I tell you, he didn't know what he was doing and I would say that he's forced to practise.

      Of course I envy his skills on the keys but at the same time I am happy that I wasn't forced to do anything until the day I got mad at that thing which was supposed to be so beautiful as music. And besides him, I bet there're many others who're put up to play just to "repeat" Mozart.

      We lack new pieces, we don't lack Mozart 2.0.

    6. Re:General improvement? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Although it is true that many musicians have great technical ability, a lot of excitement has left the musical world. When Leonard Bernstein wrote West Side Story he was criticized for doing music that wasn't serious enough, and yet there he produced some of the greatest music of this century. People had become too focused on 'great works' and had forgotten how to communicate through music. If you look at books published in the 50s and 60s, they will claim that Tchaikovsky or Rachmaninoff weren't even composers. It is as if the entire (classical) music world has lost the joy of music.

      Life is coming back to the music world, however. Some excellent choral music is being produced: look at John Rutter or The Tabernacle Choir. People are starting to realize that even if you can play the most stunning trill and the greatest technique, it is pointless if it doesn't come from the heart.

      --
      Qxe4
    7. Re:General improvement? by dimension6 · · Score: 1

      I don't know about that incident, but I do know that Kreisler AND Heifetz (correct spelling) typically put their violins away during the whole summer, something that practically NO major violinists do today. If you're interested, you can track down the video of Heifetz warming up after a long break (he starts on his warm-up violin, and then moves to the Strad); it's pretty amusing. And, I can say without a doubt that the top violinists of today are even more technically brilliant than Heifetz was (back in the old days, virtuosity was measured more by speed; today it's measured by clarity and many violinists today are both fast and articulate). Kreisler is best known for his incredible contributions to the pseudo-popular music world (he knew a catchy theme when he heard one, and was brilliant at adapting it for the violin). You may also want to check out the Kreisler-Rachmaninoff recordings; they're quite good. And incidentally, I was a violin major at a music conservatory...

  33. Re:Comparing Einstein to today's physicists is NOT by freedom_india · · Score: 0, Troll
    This is a statement of staggering stupidity

    For amazing geniuses with a staggering IQ of 225 like you, Einstein may be stupid, but for poor low IQ guys like me he was God.

    Or, maybe you ARE Einstein Himself ! OH MY GOD !!!

    --
    "Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
  34. Dude! You forgot to mention Archimedes! :) by Schwarzchild · · Score: 1

    He was a physicist, mathematician and engineer. And this was over 2,000 years ago!

    --

    "sweet dreams are made of this..."

  35. wrong.... by bergeron76 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Einstein's brilliance stems from his ability to think outside of the box, in a practical way; and before "thinking outside of the box" was a tagline and not an actual concept.

    I'm no Einstein, but I do think in a Bergeronian way. I take a concept, invert it entirely, and think - Why has traditional thinking prevented this from working? and Could it actually work (contrary to popular accepted practice)? Ignore the existing reasoning for why it doesn't work. You will either a) confirm that it doesn't work; b) have an epiphany and a resultant breakthrough or c) something else

    Traditional thinking dictates that a square peg can't fit into a round hole. Of course traditional thinking doesn't consider that obscure 4th Dimension - which makes it possible to fit a square peg into a round hole.

    --
    Don't think that a small group of dedicated individuals can't change the world. It's the only thing that ever has.
    1. Re:wrong.... by redleaf8 · · Score: 1

      Bergeronian as in Harrison Bergeron?

    2. Re:wrong.... by irm · · Score: 3, Funny

      Because that 4th dimension give you the time to take that square peg over to the belt sander and trim her down.

    3. Re:wrong.... by Jim_Callahan · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you use a fourth dimension, then you're moving a square peg _around_ a round hole, because you're displacing it from the space in which the hole exists.

      Sorry, kid, your brilliant physics was trumped by your incorrect use of basic vocabulary. Don't get too hopeful about that philosophy degree, eh.

      --
      ...it's really a sad day for America when we require a goddamn ACT OF CONGRESS to make our DVD players work properly. ~
    4. Re:wrong.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that's bullshit. a square peg can occupy the same place as a round hole, if you have something that can physically represent both, switching between the two, only not at the same time. You can do this by hand, if a refresh rate of a few seconds is enough for you, but I can easily think of diaphrams that could change between representing (being) a square peg and representing (being) a round hole at above 100 hertz. If the change is very explosive, ie. very very fast, then you could easily be looking at the square peg in exactly the place where a round hole is. The overlapping, I suppose, would be a bit more pronounced, just as you know the pixels on my monitor that are all white are actually brighter than the ones that are all red. Maybe this has to do with the fact that I keep both brightness and contrast cranked up to the maximum.

      Point is, guy is completely right: the internal combustion engine has opposite cylinders, and before there ever were spark plugs, you could get out of the car and crank and crank the shafts, where the fall of your piston compressed thence ignited the fuel inside. SOmeone asked the question, "how can I get this cranking motion to be the very result of the original combustion" - the answer was you couldn't really, but you could fake it by having opposite sides do each other.

      Please realize that if someone had thought of this in the middle ages, when gunpowder was known, and when it was known that you could combust gunpowder by striking it very hard (not a very interesting effect, although whatever you struck it with might pop back a little), if somone had had the MERE idea of using this popping back to strike some gunpowder on the reverse side of a robust teetertot, and a mechanism for keeping gunpowder flowing to each side of the teeter tot, then upon presenting this novel toy to the Emperor (believe gunpowder originated in the Orient) suddenly the industrial revolution might well have come a THOUSAND years earlier. Take seismograph. "Around 132 AD, Chinese scientist Chang Heng invented the first seismoscope, an instrument that could register the occurrence of an earthquake". Unfortunately this source doesn't say, but actually it registered an Earthquake so far away that no one believed the inventor and ridiculed him for a machine that drops a ball to register an Earthquake, when clearly there is no earthquake. They all had to eat their words, though, because within a few days news rode in about the earthquake, which had in fact happened on the day the machine registered it.

      In response to your dismissive claim, I interpretted your parent post's "fourth dimension" square peg/round hole solution, and it is left only to ask: "For what application is it necessary that a square peg fit within a round hole, overlapping at the corners?" Tell me the application and I will calculate for you the necessary refresh rates, or, since explosive manipulation of a diaphragm (by air) is my example, the necessary "RPM" for the internal combustion engine whose combustions on one side deform to a square peg, and also incidentally bring the pistons down on the other side, which upon combusting does the work of deforming to the round hole. Tell me the application! I will tell you the RPM for the four-dimensional solution.

    5. Re:wrong.... by jnana · · Score: 1

      Funniest response I've seen for a while! Thanks.

  36. Hawking is pop culture. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Take Hawking off the TV for a while and he's less memorable than Crick or Tesla. Einstein died over 50 years ago everyone still knows who he is. Everyone knows E=mc^2 though not everyone understands it. Einstein is in the Newton and Galileo territory. The dimmest of students recognize those three names. As for Hawking... well, Homer Simpson calls him "that wheelchair guy." Most of America would have missed the joke if he said Hawking instead.

  37. Is it that simple Mr. Gleick? by squishybit · · Score: 1

    Granted that Einstein is an iconic figure. Certainly there are more people DOING physics (and even doing so brilliantly) and any other thing today than in 1905 (Einstein's annus mirabilis). And relativity today is for the physics undergraduate today what Newtonian mechanics was for one in 1905. However, this doesnt change the fact that there have not been any paradigmatic shifts since quantum mechanics and its subsequent developments. The second coming will be when someone can come to grips with the measurement problem in quantum mechanics amongst a host of other huge problems.

  38. Chaitin recommends by Schwarzchild · · Score: 1

    just diving in without spending years studying someone else's work too thoroughly. I think that his reasoning is that in this manner you will not "learn too much" and you will be more open to new ideas.

    --

    "sweet dreams are made of this..."

  39. Re:Comparing Einstein to today's physicists is NOT by NixLuver · · Score: 1

    Staggering indeed. Like:

    "Einstein laboured under handicaps of primitive technology, facilities, etc."

    LOL. From half a century downstream, the technology that the current physicists are working with will seem like a handicap in tech, facilities, &cetera. That, my friend, is relative.

    Wait... Have you ever read any Strauss?

  40. All it takes is a new view of the universe by mykepredko · · Score: 1

    I always felt that Einstein's (like Newton's) brilliance was due to his work's insight and ability to portray the world reasonably precisely where it hadn't been done before. Einstein, like Newton came up with a way of explaining how the universe worked based on scientific observations that hadn't been explained up to that point in time. In both cases (and probably others where a breakthrough has been made in some branch of science) other scientists have carried on this work, enhanced it and created products based on it.

    It is my firm belief that there will be more great scientists, probably eclipsing previous scientists by further improving man's understanding of the universe by a quantum leap (to coin a phrase) just as Einstein and Newton have done.

    myke

  41. In other words; by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    equality will be the death of us all.

  42. Witten by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seconded. The sheer rate at which Witten churns out massively cited papers, often revolutionizing their respective fields, is amazing. His H index and citation count (33,000+, I think) are unreal (for a physicist). Not to mention his Fields Medal (the math version of a Nobel Prize); any number of his contributions could each have won it. Nobody else in contemporary theoretical physics comes close to his influence.

  43. But who.... by click2005 · · Score: 1

    Wasnt Stephen Hawking supposed to be the next one..

    Then Stephen Hawking asaid it was probably going to be Ed Witten.

    They should give up and concentrate on reanimating the actual Einstein.

    My guess is it'll be whoever first proves general relativity is complete rubbish and quantum mechanics only works near earth because the flying spagetti monster changed our subspace.

    --
    I am a free slashdotter. I will not be modded, blogged, DRM'd, patented, podcasted or RFID'd. My life is my own.
  44. Re:Comparing Einstein to today's physicists is NOT by scotch · · Score: 0, Troll

    Your follow-up post is a further demonstration of staggering stupidity or a lack of reading comprehension skills.

    --
    XML causes global warming.
  45. Things have changed by Ogemaniac · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Show me modern physics papers that contain math that most people with any scientific or engineering background can understand, and that are just a few pages long.

    The unsolved problems that people are working on today are much more complex, so comparing the rates at which they are solved is meaningless.

    When I was slogging through my 250 page PhD dissertation, I came across an article about disserations of such famous people as Schroedinger and other physicists of the 1920's - whose entire dissertations were about as long as Section 1.1 of my introduction.

    Trying to compare now and then is all but irrelevant.

    1. Re:Things have changed by QuantumG · · Score: 1

      Uh huh. Even when people write about "new" phenomona like Bose-Einstein Condensates? Face it, the reason why scientific papers are so long now is because all the scientists are full of hot air. Hell, if you observe something new and interesting these days you can't even get your work published without including two pages of speculation on what you think is happening.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    2. Re:Things have changed by zerocool^ · · Score: 5, Funny


      When I was slogging through my 250 page PhD dissertation, I came across an article about disserations of such famous people as Schroedinger and other physicists of the 1920's - whose entire dissertations were about as long as Section 1.1 of my introduction.

      Don't make excuses for yourself: Schroedinger's dissertation was of infinite length until observed.

      ~Will

      --
      sig?
    3. Re:Things have changed by nixkuroi · · Score: 1

      Not trying to be a troll here, but maybe that just means we shouldn't compare you to Einstein. It's possible that you don't have the same outside the box simple genius that we use to define Einstein.

      I probably don't either having used the phrase "outside the box".

    4. Re:Things have changed by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      This is totally off topic...

      About 12 years ago as I struggled with College while having chemotherapy for Cancer, I was arguing with my Grandmother who went to an engineering college in 1949-50 about my grades (low Bs and some Cs), she was complaning I got a C+ in Physics when she could get an A. I said, but Grandma, there wasn't as much Physics in 1950 as there is now...

      She didn't like that answer, but it is true in a way.

      Back then Physics and other sciences were far more open to discovery than the sciences are today while we refine the details rather than discovering broad things.

    5. Re:Things have changed by Amouth · · Score: 1

      I know the feeling.. I remember my dad getting a masters in geology and having to do water table flow.. i sat there and learned it with him.. neet stuff.

      got to my cal 3 class and i'll be damned if hey didn't start doing (basic) water table flow.. something that i remember my dad learning in grad school.

      kids now are expected to know so much more about everything it is crazy..

      --
      '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
    6. Re:Things have changed by Tablizer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The unsolved problems that people are working on today are much more complex, so comparing the rates at which they are solved is meaningless.

      Or maybe it's just that nobody has found the simple solutions yet. Maybe the next Einstein will find something simple that makes string theory an embarassment in throwing brute mass math at the problem. Ya never know....

    7. Re:Things have changed by plierhead · · Score: 1
      Back then Physics and other sciences were far more open to discovery than the sciences are today while we refine the details rather than discovering broad things.

      And everything that can be discovered, has been discovered?

      --

      [x] auto-moderate all posts by this user as insightful

    8. Re:Things have changed by brian0918 · · Score: 1

      "Show me modern physics papers that contain math that most people with any scientific or engineering background can understand, and that are just a few pages long."

      When the next Einstein comes along, I'll show you such papers. Until then, people will continue to "brute force" progress in their field.

    9. Re:Things have changed by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      Yeah. Planck wrote his Ph.D. in just ONE page. Niels Bohr wrote his doctor disputas in just 12 pages that founded the bases of quantum physics. Galeous (spelling?) founded modern abvanced algebra before he turned 16.

      Most brilliant physics and math students wants to be the best ever. It is a phase you have to get through: So don't feel bad when you don't match up to the geniuses of the past, no one does.

    10. Re:Things have changed by EmagGeek · · Score: 1

      That's funny, because most of the papers that defined modern physics were a dozen or so pages or less. My paper that disproves the use of physical optics in numerical modeling of penetrable scatterers is only about 20 pages long. I don't bother reading papers that are more than a few pages long because, in general, any paper that is longer than that is so because the author is blowing hot air and padding length to satisfy the complete myth that quantity means something.

      If you can't explain a concept in a page or less, you don't understand it yourself. If you feel the need to write your dissertation so that a first year physics student can understand it, you're not writing for the correct audience.

    11. Re:Things have changed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    12. Re:Things have changed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry to say, but the fact that your PhD has 250 pages shows that you are not the new Einstein.

    13. Re:Things have changed by uradu · · Score: 1

      It's a simple matter of word inflation, or padding if you will. It has less to do with the increasing complexity of the subject matter (although that can certainly be the case) and more with the ever more bombastic expectations and requirements of thesis papers. If Einstein or any of his similarly illustrious contemporaries were to publish their papers today for a modern university, trust me, they would dwarf your paper in every respect. We're living in the days of 100 page press releases and 1000 page court "briefs", with tables of contents of tables of contents and bibliographies of bibliographies and endless amounts of boilerplate text of every imaginable nature. If your research included any statistical analysis I'm sure your paper is brimming with iterations of regression analysis and the requisite page-filling tables and charts. Back in Einstein's days you stated your name, included a description of your new insights and your signature, and you were pretty much done.

    14. Re:Things have changed by LearningHard · · Score: 1

      Or maybe the dissertations and research papers are so long because we have become so cumbersome in how the academic world attempts to relate ideas. As a matter of fact I know this is true from personal experience. Read a modern research paper and then read an older one. The modern one is so full of unneccessary information that is just there to basically make it look thicker that it is horrible to read where the older paper will get right to the point and make said point.

    15. Re:Things have changed by confusion+here · · Score: 1

      Strawman.

    16. Re:Things have changed by coopex · · Score: 1

      Your 250 page dissertation just means that you need to learn how to write clearly and concisely, which is the reason Einstein and others are so revered. They were geniuses, but they also could write extremely readable papers.

      --
      The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
    17. Re:Things have changed by coopex · · Score: 1

      Classical mechanics was pretty well done by the end of the 19th century, Maxwell had his formalization of E and M by then as well, all the undergrad QM is pre 30s, statistical and thermo is 19th as well, and since you refer to the class as Physics, it sounds like an introductory class, so what exactly were you learning that they didn't know 50/150 years ago?

      --
      The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
    18. Re:Things have changed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you for the laugh. :)

    19. Re:Things have changed by srussell · · Score: 1
      Show me modern physics papers that contain math that most people with any scientific or engineering background can understand, and that are just a few pages long.
      I'm not a physicist, and I have an immense amount of respect for you if you've gone through grad school with a physics major. So don't take this the wrong way.

      Is it possible that one of the reasons why those earlier papers were so brilliant was because they were simple? Einstein himself said, "When I'm asking simple questions, and I'm getting simple answers, I'm talking to God."

      I'm a big fan of elegant simplicity; I'm suspicious about systems that seem too complex, because -- in my experience -- complexity in a system is an indication of an incomplete understanding of the system. Often, the complexity comes from "hacks" to work around some fundamental flaw in the original theory/design.

      Again, IANAP, and my world view may be inapplicable to physics, but if people such as Einstein and Schroedinger were as recently as the 20's and 30's were publishing (relatively) simple, ground-breaking physics papers, then I'm inclined to think not.

      --- SER

  46. Not Allowed by parodyca · · Score: 2, Funny

    There can't ever be another Einstein. The Hebrew University of Jerusalem holds the trademark and they'd never allow it.

  47. Exactly! I think thats the point. by suso · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think that all this tells us is that society has moved on (ahead) and if you want to achive the same level of fame that you have to work harder at it. For his time, Einstein still had to do a lot. Its not like it was easy. Likewise, its not easy 100 years later to achive the same level of fame. Perhaps Richard Feyman or Carl Sagan came close, but of course neither of them don't have an opera with their name in it (AFAIK).

  48. We don't need another hero... by hung_himself · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Not to denigrate Einstein's prodigious achievements but general relativity would have been impossible were it not for Riemann's (and Gauss before him) work setting up differential geometry. Not to mention, the contributions by Lorentz, Minkowski and other contemporaries who we forget in our quest to annoint a scientific messiah. It seems that the public *needs* a quaint ubermensch to worship with rather than accepting the more mundane truth that scientific advances occur from the concerted work of many very bright people.

    On a scientific level, had Einstein not existed, someone else would have done the work eventually - the tools and conditions were in place for these discoveries to be made. But on a societal level, it probably would have been necessary to invent him...

    1. Re:We don't need another hero... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you missed Poincaré from the list.

    2. Re:We don't need another hero... by master_p · · Score: 1

      And let's not forget Constantinos Karatheodoris, that helped Einstein a lot in formulating his theories.

  49. Culture Bomb 4tw by DeadPrez · · Score: 1

    Let's not be too hasty comparing the minds of today with the likes of Einstein, Newton, etc. These men saw the world in a revolutionary manner. They also faced stiff peer review of their ideas. Which mind today can say they have done such a thing? Minor revolutions need not apply.

    Perhaps they were just lucky to be born with certain ('god' given) gifts and (scientific) resources while others must suffer without, but that too is what inspires us stand in awe.

    PS: everyone knows how Great People are made if they played Civ4. You just have reallocate funds to the arts and sciences. ^^

  50. Re:Exactly! I think thats the point. by toddbu · · Score: 1
    Perhaps Richard Feyman [sic] or Carl Sagan came close, but of course neither of them don't have an opera with their name in it (AFAIK).

    Explain to me how a guy running around talking about "billions and billions" of galaxies even begins to come close to what Einstein contributed to physics. At least Feynman made some significant contributions to quantum physics. Putting Carl Sagan in the same class as Einstein is like putting Ashley Simpson in the same class as Einstein.

    --
    If you don't want crime to pay, let the government run it.
  51. Perhaps the time was right? by Whiteout · · Score: 1

    There have been a number cases throughout scientific history in which a remarkable discovery was made twice, independently and almost simultaneously. Famous examples are Newton/Leibnitz (calculus) and Darwin/Wallis (evolution by natural selection).

    Without meaning to dismiss Einstein - clearly one of the modern age's most brilliant minds - perhaps the progress of science isn't so dependent on the existence of one genius with no equal in his/her age, but rather progress occurs when enough great minds have had long enough to study the current scientific canon.

    This would imply that 20th Century science progressed roughly independently of whether Einstein was hit by a bus, plus or minus a decade.

    Andy

  52. video games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're not going to be brilliant in your 20s if you spend your teens playing GTA and the like. There could be another Einstein, but we're not looking (teaching) hard enough.

  53. Stephen Hawking by ShaneThePain · · Score: 0

    Stephen Hawking was always the "next Einstein" to me. Having read his books and understood very little of it, I would think he might be seen as the next Einstein, probably more so after he dies.

    --
    Fascism is the greatest political ideology ever conceived. Sorry.
  54. Ok.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    where is nelson muntz when we need him?

  55. Not everyone by RussP · · Score: 1

    is so impressed with Einstein:

    http://xtxinc.com/

    --
    I watch Brit Hume on Fox News
  56. Not gone yet. by ROFLMAObot · · Score: 0

    Ein was around 50 years ago. I think we're doing okay if we have one great mind a century. The way I see it, we have a good 50-100 years before we can expect to see some universe altering mind.

  57. The Problems Einstein Couldn't Handle Today by Quirk · · Score: 1
    Einstein got a position as a patent clerk in Bern, Switzerland.

    My question is, if Einstein or his equivalent had a job today as a patent clerk at the USPTO, would his mind withstand the onslaught of incomprehensible patents and go onto to do great work. Could even an Einstein make the USPTO right?

    --
    "Academicians are more likely to share each other's toothbrush than each other's nomenclature."
    Cohen
  58. For the same reason.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    "The paradoxical answer, Gleick suggested, is that there are so many brilliant physicists alive today that it has become harder for any individual to stand apart from the pack. In other words, our perception of Einstein as a towering figure is, well, relative."


    We will always think of Hitler as evil incarnate even though there are world leaders today who promote fascism, military aggression, politcal oppression, and unlawful spying on their own citizens. Nothing can ever stand up to the legend so a contemporary dictator seems tame in comparison.

  59. Unexplained Phenomena by Keith+McClary · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Back in 1900 there were a few Unexplained Phenomena such as the Michaelson-Morley experiment, spectral lines, what held the positive and negative kinds of matter apart.

    In retrospect we realize that these were major problems that required fundamental new theories.

    There are also some Unexplained Phenomena today, it's just a question whether these are misinterpreted experiments or something new that existing theory can't explain.

    When there comes to be too much unexplained stuff, people start thinking outside the box, and we get another Feynman. Or Einstein.

  60. Re:Einstein had Charisma; he also had Wit by valdean · · Score: 1
    Einstein also had a great deal of wit. Just look at some of the quotations attributed to him:

    "The hardest thing in the world to understand is the income tax."

    "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction."

    "Gravitation is not responsible for people falling in love."

    "I want to know God's thoughts; the rest are details."

    "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."

    "Sometimes one pays most for the things one gets for nothing."

    "Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."

    "Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."

    "Science is a wonderful thing if one does not have to earn one's living at it."

    "The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education."

    There are loads more. Just do a search for "einstein quotes" and you'll find some truly inspiring material. The man was more than a great physicist. He was also a great thinker.

  61. It is Heisenberg's fault by HermanAB · · Score: 1

    Nowadays, fame and intelligence are mutually exclusive.

    --
    Oh well, what the hell...
  62. Greatness is more common than you would believe by symbolset · · Score: 1

    I believe great thinkers on Albert Einstein's level are born every week somewhere in the world. The vast majority of them:

    • Remain uneducated and frustrated for whatever reason, usually lack of opportunity or stimulus.
    • Hide their ability for social reasons. The brown monkeys kill the pink monkey.
    • Find other outlets for their creativity. Some of them probably post on /.

    Vast amounts of untapped human potential lie all around us. But so what? The world needs bartenders too.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
    1. Re:Greatness is more common than you would believe by bhima · · Score: 1

      Too True... One of the smartest people I ever met was a bartender.

      --
      Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
  63. Re:Exactly! I think thats the point. by suso · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Duh! I wasn't putting him in the same class as Einstein. I just said that he might come close in terms of how many people know about him. Quick ask someone to name as many scientists as they can. I bet in 5 out of 10 respondants that Carl Sagan and Richard Feyman will be in the list. And I was talking about Scientists in general. Not just physicists.

    But of course leave it to someone on Slashdot to nit pick my comments.

  64. Einstein was the frst slashdotter! by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 5, Funny

    This is not to say that Einstein wasn't insightful

    At first, he was a troll.
    Then he became interesting.
    But he was very underrated.
    His theories were all flamebait.
    But he was very informative.
    And insightful.
    Once in a while, funny.
    And now he's getting overrated?

    Wow!

    1. Re:Einstein was the frst slashdotter! by Guppy06 · · Score: 1

      In Soviet Russia, Einstein is an old person in Korea.

    2. Re:Einstein was the frst slashdotter! by Flammon · · Score: 1

      Hmm, you missed his First Post!

  65. The bar is being raised in music? by Dr.+Spork · · Score: 1
    Huh? The bar is being raised in music? Honestly, how many historical violinists can a normal person name (people who were famous just because they fiddled well)? I bet the median is zero. The people we remember are the composers, the "ideas" people, not the "fingers" people. And I don't think the bar on musical ideas is being raised at all - or if it is then I'm missing it.

    Einstein too was an ideas person. Luckily, today's physics is much more fertile with new ideas than today's music!

    1. Re:The bar is being raised in music? by Threni · · Score: 1

      > The people we remember are the composers, the "ideas" people, not the "fingers" people.

      Depends on who you mean by "we". If you mean people who don't take an interest in classical (sometimes called "western art") music then you're right, but some of us are very familiar with "fingers" people such as Argerich, Kremer, Gould, Rosen, Richter etc.

      > And I don't think the bar on musical ideas is being raised at all - or if it is then I'm
      > missing it.

      You are missing it in a rather large way because you are ignorant of classical music. If you want to know more about the last 100 or so years of classical music you might like to spend some time using Google or Wikipedia or whatever looking up some of the following:

      Schoenberg, Stravinsky, Bartok, Stockhausen, Boulez, Messiaen, Berio, Szymanowski, Scriabin, Debussy, Ravel, Ferneyhough, Xenakis, Zappa, Cage...

    2. Re:The bar is being raised in music? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "People" can probably remember Yehudi Menuhin, Nigel Kennedy and Vanessa Mae.

    3. Re:The bar is being raised in music? by AndroidCat · · Score: 1

      I'm still trying to wrap my head around the high-jump metaphor used for violin-playing. (Even if you do clear the bar, you've got quite a drop while holding an expensive violin!)

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
  66. what's the point of the debate? by hoto0301 · · Score: 0

    any points you can make about einstein being "great" or otherwise are based on our friend, the unprovable opinion.

  67. Experiments and Focus by Starker_Kull · · Score: 4, Interesting

    In most cases, the major advances in physics were preceded by the discovery and measurement of new phenomena, or old phenomena to a new & unprecedented level of accuracy. A great deal of Galileo's insights were inspired by the telescope, which allowed him to see, in great detail, that the old "imperfect earth/perfect heavens" dichotomy of Aristotle and Official Church Dogma were patiently not so. This led to rapid-fire advances in astronomy, which in turn gave Newton the crucial data to test his theory of gravitation; it's easy to assume big things attract other big things - it is the exact AMOUNT that was crucial, and when he first compared the acceleration at the Earth's surface vs. the acceleration the Moon was undergoing to keep in orbit around the Earth, he found that his inverse square force assumption was way off. He stayed quiet for a decade, when new and much more accurate data came in, correcting the previous estimates of the size, and therefore the distance of the moon. And then the acceleration of the moon towards the earth was exactly right to fit the acceleration of objects near the earth's surface and the assumption of fall off of force by the square. Then he started talking about Universal Gravitation a bit more.

    Einstein, and the rest of the quantum physicists, were following up on the recent discovery of both radioactivity and the unification of electricity and magnetism by Maxwell.

    The point I am (longwindedly) making is that ultimately new data drove the physics. We are at a point right now where it is so expensive to probe in areas we have not looked that we have an embarrassing richness of theories to match a paucity of data. The only clear-cut result that I know of that is outside the bounds of the Standard Model of particle physics is the recent revelation that neutrinos seem to change their type (electron, mu, and tau) as time passes, based on the distribution of neutrinos received on opposite sides of the Earth from the Sun (Sci-Am, I think about a year or two ago). In biology, OTOH, we have just recently been able (due to computer horsepower) to sequence massive numbers of genes, as well as make crude computer simulations of what kind of proteins these genes would construct. It is a new tool, the computer, that is allowing biology to seize the spotlight.

    There will be more Einsteins, but perhaps in biology rather than physics for a while....

    (DISCLAIMER: IANA scientist, but sometimes wish I was....)

    1. Re:Experiments and Focus by anandsr · · Score: 1

      There are actually several problems in Physics eg. Dark Matter(Galaxy Rotation), Dark Energy (Accelarating Universe), the Pioneer Anamoly, and that GR and Quantum Mechanics are incompatible.

      Also the Ricci Tensor that gives rise to Gravitational Force in GR does not arrive from the first principles. It was chosen because it gave the Newtonian Gravity. There can be an infinite number of higher order theories that can give rise to the same Newtonian Gravity at the Solar System scales but get different results at larger distances, including removing the need for Dark Matter and Dark Energy. We are actually in a very unstable equilibrium, GR is explaining the results but after quite a bit of fine tuning. It could be that we do discover some result in the near future that cannot be explained even with fine tuning, and at that time we will need a new theory.

      Just take a look at the following page.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsolved_problems_in_ physics

    2. Re:Experiments and Focus by Starker_Kull · · Score: 1

      Ah - thank you very much for the reference. I was referring to direct evidence that the Standard Model was incorrect or incomplete - all the things you mentioned (I believe) are problems with GR or (in the case of Pioneer) who knows what. Nonetheless, I really hope we manage to figure out a few in my lifetime!

  68. Question by Panaphonix · · Score: 1

    So what's the deal with life, the Universe, the Big Bang, subatomic particles, black holes, dark energy, electromagnetic radiation, gravitons, the Higgs Boson, galaxies, the nth-dimension, time, and everything? If he answers this, he's another Einstein.

  69. Re:Exactly! I think thats the point. by Martin+Blank · · Score: 1

    Feynman is not especially well-known outside of science and geek circles. If you asked most people to name scientists, there's a good chance that Einstein would be on the list, and then perhaps Hawking, and maybe Newton or Galileo, but Feynman would, among the general populace, be fairly rare. Stephen Jay Gould would be more likely to appear, IMHO.

    --
    You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
  70. Will there ever be another Einstein? by Xerxus · · Score: 1

    "Time will tell. Sooner or later, time will tell."

  71. strange viewpoint by abes · · Score: 3, Insightful
    First, it's a bit weird he compared Einstein to Watson and Crick. It's true, that Watson and Crick are known for discovering DNA, but stole heavily from Rosalind Frankin. Additionally, they published a single finding. Einstein wrote *several* groundbreaking papers: brownian motion, photoelectrical effect, special theory of relativity, general theory of relativity. The photoelectric effect showed that light is a packet, or quanta, giving birth to quantum mechanics.

    Second, why should we expect another Einstein, or Newton? Given that anyone's accomplishments must be measured relative to the common populace, we would expect people of such stature to be rare.

    There are many factors that go into what makes someone great. Part of it is certainly being in the right time and place. Another is the social climate. Is Einstein the equal of Newton, or vice versa? That is difficult to say. They lived in completely different times. Could one do the same accomplishments as the other? One common element that appears between the two is that they were both fairly prolific (Newton did calculus, physics, and ironically enough, why light is a wave). I'd be curious if other people could come up with other historical science figure that also had several major findings. Feynman? Turing?

    1. Re:strange viewpoint by Jim_Callahan · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      Everyone always brings up Franklin when talking about DNA. Why? Wow, she was a crystallographer that collected data. You know what? Wow! She wasn't part of the group that finally pieced together the interpretation that earned the nobel prize. Not part of the interpretation, no credit for you.

      This is how it works in the world of research. The grad student sent by the professor to take the photos of the fungus or whatever doesn't get his name on the paper unless he also came up with the ideas that form the core of the paper. I'm not exactly a fan of Crick and his drinking buddy, but it's because I think their discovery wasn't that impressive in the first place (the award should have gone to the guys that figured out that DNA was the primary genetic material, not the guys that figured out the structure: the structure wasn't that hard, and in fact Crick + Watson barely finished modeling it before half a dozen other labs). However, to claim that Franklin should recieve credit for the interpretation of a set of data just because she supplied a subset of the data is kind of ridiculous.

      I really just don't get it. I guess I just never really caught on to the revisionist "everything important was actually done by a woman(gasp)" meme that's alternated with the revisionist "everyone that ever did anything noteworthy was actually homosexual(gasp)" meme throughout my gradeschool education. I think that they melded in my head at some point with the "white people never made a positive contribution to the society of the world" and "the american civil war was all about wether some dark-colored losers could vote" memes to form the giant killer-robot "historians are full of bullshit and starved for attention" meme that's stuck with me ever since.

      Ok, I'm done wandering way the hell off topic. Going to go refill my gin+tonic and complain about politics to the wall mirror now.

      --
      ...it's really a sad day for America when we require a goddamn ACT OF CONGRESS to make our DVD players work properly. ~
    2. Re:strange viewpoint by lukesl · · Score: 1

      Part of the reason that I think the original author mentioned Crick as the closest to Einstein is precisely because he made several major contributions to biology, not just the DNA structure. I don't remember them all, but I think he was the first to postulate tRNAs, for example (it was called "the adaptor hypothesis", IIRC).

    3. Re:strange viewpoint by MulluskO · · Score: 1

      "everything important was actually done by a woman(gasp)"

      . . . "Albert Einstein the Incorrigible Plagiarist suggests that Einstein had a tendency to incorporate the work of contemporary scientists without properly crediting them, and even offers a body of evidence that his wife, Mileva Einstein-Marity, was the true author of his attributed works. Albert Einstein The Incorrigible Plagiarist is a fascinating, albeit controversial treatise, packed cover to cover with meticulous references to document and support its seemingly outrageous claim." -- Midwest Book Review.

      --

      Too busy staying alive... ~ R.A.
  72. Will there ever be another Einstein? by jawahar · · Score: 2, Insightful

    YES, IMHO. Provided we have the same ENVIRONMENT, ECONOMIC and SOCIAL conditions. They seed and stimulate the right individual.

  73. Re:Exactly! I think thats the point. by toddbu · · Score: 2, Interesting
    But of course leave it to someone on Slashdot to nit pick my comments.

    So then would it be wrong of me to point out that you spelled Richard Feynman's name incorrectly for a second time, even after I oh so subtly pointed out that fact in my last response? Or perhaps you were speaking of an alternate reality in which a low level government official inadvertently dropped the "n" when transcribing Feynman's last name on his birth certificate? :-)

    Quick ask someone to name as many scientists as they can.

    I really doubt that your average Joe could come up with these guys. You'd be more likely to hear Bill Nye, or Dr. Jekyll, or that dude who created Frankenstein. Seriously, when we live in an era when fewer than 1/2 the people in this country can name the sitting VP, do you really expect them to come up with either of these guys? I'd be really surprised if 1 in 10 could even name a real scientist. In my unscientific poll of our household, everyone came up with Einstein. For a second scientist, I got Edison, Galileo, and Bill Nye.

    --
    If you don't want crime to pay, let the government run it.
  74. Yes there will be! by peterfa · · Score: 1

    What about me? ;)

  75. Mod funny by EvanED · · Score: 1

    Who sent this down? I think it's good...

  76. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  77. When did Tom Cruise start posting here? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dude, you're like totally glib.

  78. Will there ever be another Einstein? by The+Hobo · · Score: 1

    I prefer to ask "Will there ever be a rainbow"

    (I know it's OT but I also wonder if others had that image come up in their heads when they read the article title)

    --
    There is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men. -- Boondock Saints
  79. I cannot believe it. by Wilson_6500 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Nobody has mentioned the late Richard Feynman?

    A humoristic and personable genius figure--or at least he comes off as such in his books. Maybe it's all crap--I don't know. I seriously think that his image could bolster the reputation of physicists the world over.

    1. Re:I cannot believe it. by Wellington+Grey · · Score: 1

      While I do love Feynman -- and he is a major reason I stuck with my physics degree -- he is by no means famous. If you've done any physics or engineering in college Feynman is presented as this God-like figure and it's hard to remember a time when you didn't know him. A genius? Yes. The best teacher ever? Yes. A great character? Yes. Famous to the general public? No.

      When Feynman get portrayed on shows like the Simpsons and Family Guy (as both Einstein and Hawking have) then I'll consider him famous.

      -Grey

      P.S. As a physics teacher now I'm working to change that -- I mention Feynman at every chance I get. Though teaching at an all-girls school I neglect to mention how much of a skirt chaser he was, a fact that made him very popular when I worked at an all boys school.

  80. Your sig by Schraegstrichpunkt · · Score: 1
    #define free(x) free(&x)

    That is just evil.

    1. Re:Your sig by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not really a C++ man myself (I know, shame on me), what exactly does that do? I have programming experience but can't quite grok it.

    2. Re:Your sig by moro_666 · · Score: 1

      russian roulette in memory management (read: huge memory leaks and segfaults sooner or later).

      --

      I'd tell you the chances of this story being a dupe, but you wouldn't like it.
  81. Educated stupid, you are stupid! by Urusai · · Score: 1

    The four-day simultaneous harmonic time cube has been thoroughly debunked--he failed to account for higher dimensions, so we are actually living in an 8-day simultaneous harmonic time tesseract. Check your equations!

  82. Re:Exactly! I think thats the point. by Mycroft_VIII · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    "...or that dude who created Frankenstein..."

    That would be his parents.
    Frankenstien WAS the (mad)scientist. His 'creation' was named Adam and is sometimes called "Frankenstiens monster".
        Just taking my turn with picking nits. No harmfull/mean intent here.

    Mycroft

    --
    https://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4c3ed6600b6ea
  83. Intelligent Design by EnsilZah · · Score: 1

    I wonder, are there any famous ID 'scientists', or does god get all the credit?

  84. Thus the establishment has always argued by snowwrestler · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Throughout centuries numerous scientists have argued that the simple questions have all been answered, that only the niche, complex and esoteric aspects will be studied from here on out. In fact many physicists felt that way shortly before the end of the 19th century.

    Today I'm betting that, like then, there are still plenty of fundamental questions left to answer (although we might not know how to ask them yet). And the funny thing about truly fundamental questions is that they usually have pretty simple answers. But getting there through established theories and avenues of experimentation is often impossible; it takes a major shift in thought.

    But the results can still be simple. While the mathematics that Einstein ultimately employed to describe the theory are complex, the general relativity theory itself is so simple in concept that high school kids can grasp it by simple analogy--the rubber mat with heavy objects on it.

    And in fact Einstein himself struggled with the math--but that did not prevent him from formulating the theory. The theory came first, then with help he found the math that could describe it. Einstein's problems with advanced math did not keep him from making major breakthroughs, and I doubt it will stop the "next Einstein" either.

    --
    Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
    1. Re:Thus the establishment has always argued by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But the results can still be simple. While the mathematics that Einstein ultimately employed to describe the theory are complex, the general relativity theory itself is so simple in concept that high school kids can grasp it by simple analogy--the rubber mat with heavy objects on it.

      Excuse my language, but HELL NO!

      It took years before even the world's leading physicists accepted General Relativity.

      Sure you can convince a high school kid that spacetime is a "fabric" and mass pushes down on it to create surfaces, there is a shitton more physics (and math) behind it than that. You haven't really taught an area of physics to someone until they have learned how to derive it themselves. Even Special Relativity is usually limited to giving students equations. You make it sound like the Theory of General Relativity contains no math; the entire idea behind general relativity is that you can geometrize physics to adapt it from special relativity (flat geometry) to curved spacetime. If you think you can do that without math, I would sure like to see it!

      Sorry to flame you, the rest of your post was actually quite good.

    2. Re:Thus the establishment has always argued by archgoon · · Score: 1

      Throughout centuries numerous scientists have argued that the simple questions have all been answered, that only the niche, complex and esoteric aspects will be studied from here on out. In fact many physicists felt that way shortly before the end of the 19th century.

      And by induction, all odd numbers are prime.

      Sometimes patterns really do stop. Even in history.

    3. Re:Thus the establishment has always argued by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also by induction, every other integer is divisible by two.

      Sometimes patterns never stop. Even in math.

    4. Re:Thus the establishment has always argued by OwnedByTwoCats · · Score: 1

      There were simple phenomena that could not be explained by late-19th-century physics. Why the inside of the earth was still warm. Why the sun shone. Why some salts exposed photographic plates when simply placed near them. Why the night sky was dark.

      OK, the nucleus of the atom doesn't have much to do with the answer to the fourth question, but I like it anyway.

  85. Re:Exactly! I think thats the point. by germansausage · · Score: 1

    "that dude who created Frankenstein"

    Frankenstein (Baron von Frankenstein to you buddy) was the dude who created the monster. The monster had no name.

  86. Ed Witten by Dachannien · · Score: 1

    Many physicists today believe that Ed Witten, due to his uncanny grasp of head-exploding mathematics, is our best hope for revolutionary advances in theoretical physics today.

  87. Re:Exactly! I think thats the point. by toddbu · · Score: 1
    Just taking my turn with picking nits. No harmfull/mean intent here.

    I knew that I was going to screw something up. No offense taken. :-)

    His 'creation' was named Adam and is sometimes called "Frankenstiens monster".

    Interesting. I have to admit that I never saw the movie or read the book. So maybe you can explain something to me then. Wouldn't the "Bride of Frankenstein" be the woman who married Frankenstein rather than one who would marry Frankenstein's monster?

    --
    If you don't want crime to pay, let the government run it.
  88. complexity does not necessarily mean brilliance by Quadraginta · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I dunno. One of the things that made Einstein great, from the scientific point of view, is that he cleared away a great deal of 19th-century complexity in optics and mechanics and replaced it with a theoretical framework of such dazzling simplicity that anyone could grasp its basic principles, but of such power that understanding its full implications demands high intelligence and decades of sustained study.

    It's like the way Copernicus swept away the huge complexity of the Ptolemaic astronomer's theory of planetary orbits, all those cycles and epicycles, with the simple and powerful idea of the elliptical orbit. Or how Mendeleev replaced the 18th century's bewildering lists of correlations between chemical properties of substances with the simple and powerful organizational principles of the Periodic Table.

    Even in my own experience as a theoretician I find the truly brilliant ideas are not complex. They're insights that drastically simplify and clarify. They're the kind of things that, when you understand them, make you slap your head in awe and envy.

    So, from this point of view, the hideous complexity of modern high-energy physics theories could well be a sign that they lack brilliance, that another Einstein is needed to clear away all the baroque epicycles, so to speak, and replace it all with something beautifully simple and far more powerful.

    Of course, this might not be true -- it might instead be the case that the basic structure of the universe is simply too complex for ordinary humans to understand even its principles. But I find this hard to believe (for no logical reason, I admit).

    So I personally disagree with Mr. Horgan. I think he's just channeling Albert Michelson in 1896 ("The more important fundamental laws and facts of physical science have all been discovered....Our future discoveries must be looked for in the sixth place of decimals.") Like Michelson, Horgan thinks that because no revolution has happened in 50 years one will never happen. But it was almost 300 years between Newton and Einstein. So I'd give it another century or two before giving up.

    1. Re:complexity does not necessarily mean brilliance by njyoder · · Score: 1

      It's like the way Copernicus swept away the huge complexity of the Ptolemaic astronomer's theory of planetary orbits, all those cycles and epicycles, with the simple and powerful idea of the elliptical orbit. Or how Mendeleev replaced the 18th century's bewildering lists of correlations between chemical properties of substances with the simple and powerful organizational principles of the Periodic Table.

      Ah, but it's important to note that neither of those have the prestige of Einstein, not even close. Most lay persons have probably never heard of Mendeleev. You also forgot Newton who himself made several important "Nobel prize worthy" discoveries. I would even go so far as to suggest that Newton was really the father of modern physics (yes--I realize that modern physics typically really refers to 20th century and beyond) because his work was such a change from what was mostly just pseduoscientific nonsense. To the best of my knowledge, astronomy was the only major scientific physics endeavor at the time. This suggests that the prestige has a large social aspect that extends beyond just the genius of one's work and is, in fact, more important than the achievement itself.

      Even in my own experience as a theoretician I find the truly brilliant ideas are not complex. They're insights that drastically simplify and clarify. They're the kind of things that, when you understand them, make you slap your head in awe and envy.

      But given some of the mind boggling and counter-intuitive phenomenon of quantum mechanics, how do you think it can be all explained with something so simple? Is there any evidence that theories are getting simpler?

      Additionally, were pre-GR theories more complex than GR itself? From what I know of the history, the popular failed theories weren't overcompliced monoliths, they were simple ones that were just wrong.

      Keep in mind that even GR was wrong and only encompassed limited phenomenon. When it comes to cases of relatively "flat space," SR simplifies to Newton's gravitation equation. The reason stuff like this happens is because Newton's work was for describing a small amount of phenomenon (or phenomenon within limited constraints/assumptions). SR expanded that further, loosening the constraints. SR, of course, is more complex than Newtonian gravitation as a result of expansion. Now we have M-theory which expands the described phenomenon by an order of magnitude and likewise it's an order of magnitude more complicated.

      So historically, we see things getting more complex not because people aren't as brilliant, but because past research was only working with constrained/limited phenomenon.

      So what do you think of M-theory? Do you really think there is a simpler mathematical way of unifying all of those phenomena?

      Of course, this might not be true -- it might instead be the case that the basic structure of the universe is simply too complex for ordinary humans to understand even its principles. But I find this hard to believe (for no logical reason, I admit).

      It's not that it's too complex for humans to understand, it's just that it takes more humans to understand than before and it's not something we can really conceptualize/visualize (as a whole) intuitively anymore. However, we can definitely fit more mathematics to fit the data. We are getting to the point where it's just too complex to imagine it all in our heads, so we either restrict ourselves to conceptual models for specific aspects of a greater phenomenon OR we just like the mathematics do the work, not bothering to conceptualize what's going on.

    2. Re:complexity does not necessarily mean brilliance by gbulmash · · Score: 1

      Even in my own experience as a theoretician I find the truly brilliant ideas are not complex. They're insights that drastically simplify and clarify. They're the kind of things that, when you understand them, make you slap your head in awe and envy.

      So, from this point of view, the hideous complexity of modern high-energy physics theories could well be a sign that they lack brilliance, that another Einstein is needed to clear away all the baroque epicycles, so to speak, and replace it all with something beautifully simple and far more powerful.

      Damn, I wish I had mod points right now. This was very well said and cut through to the point of Einstein's genius. +1, baby, +1.

      - Greg

    3. Re:complexity does not necessarily mean brilliance by Golias · · Score: 1

      Of course, this might not be true -- it might instead be the case that the basic structure of the universe is simply too complex for ordinary humans to understand even its principles. But I find this hard to believe (for no logical reason, I admit).

      Good to see you recognized your own "irrationality" for what it is.

      Along similar lines, I happen to believe that Christ was sent by a benevolent creator to grant us eternal life, and, like you, have no logical reason for doing so.

      In both cases, the world makes more sense to us if we begin with a few chosen axioms, which are largely based on the way we feel about the how we've experienced reality. That's what faith pretty much is, and everybody has some faith in SOMETHING. You can't really move past Descartes without it, and what good does it do to know "I must exist, because I am thinking" if you feel certain of nothing else?

      Sorry for the tangent.

      Frankly, I think that the "next Einstein" is probably just around the corner. Einstein was a "rock star" scientist because his work produced very tangible changes in the way the everyday layman experiences life. Not only did he make us see the world a little differently, but he also changed the way the world works. Without the a-bomb, there's no Cold War, and the political landscape of the entire world would have been radically different.

      --

      Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

    4. Re:complexity does not necessarily mean brilliance by noerobert · · Score: 0
      Like Michelson, Horgan thinks that because no revolution has happened in 50 years one will never happen. But it was almost 300 years between Newton and Einstein. So I'd give it another century or two before giving up.
      While I agree with your basic idea here, it is a logical fallacy to try and extrapolate a pattern from one interval.
    5. Re:complexity does not necessarily mean brilliance by jallen02 · · Score: 1

      Don't you think it is still possible for someone, somewhere, to hold enough in their head at a "full" level of understanding that they can make observations that no one else might make? It seems to me that you are arguing things are so complex now that no one person can visualize the pieces of the puzzle and how they interact. Yet if someone CAN do that they can theoretically manipulate the puzze at a level few others can. That is how you get breakthroughs that really change things. Can anyone do that now? Can things be simplified? Maybe, maybe not. Nothing leans me to much in one direction or another. Yet when you look at how far we have pushed things in the last 2,000 years it does not seem like the big leaps in our understanding of the universe are over with yet.

      Jeremy

    6. Re:complexity does not necessarily mean brilliance by Quadraginta · · Score: 1

      Fundamentally, I can't argue with you. I don't know enough about what it was like to be a physicist in other ages to know whether what we have now is much more complex than what they had then, or whether it's just different. My instinct is that it's just different. The reason is that on the occasions I have had to study carefully extinct theories, I have been impressed with how complex, ingenious and compelling they are, seen within the framework of the facts known at the time. I don't feel like our ancestors were any less imaginative than we, nor that their world-view was any less complex and clever.

      I understand the "standing on the shoulders of giants" argument, but I think that speaks more to the direction of our thinking, not the complexity. It's not, I think, that general relativity is harder in principle to grasp than the cosmological theories of Plato. It's just that GR is correct, and Plato's ideas were not. Furthermore, we usually know Plato's theories, if we know them at all, only as a cartoon, a sketch -- because we don't want to waste time on knowing thoroughly something that is wrong. So we probably routinely underestimate how clever and compelling they were at the time they seemed correct.

      But, as I said, I only have a feeling about this. I can't prove you're wrong and I agree you may be right.

      To answer your minor questions: my opinion on M-theory would not be worth the paper and ink it took to print it -- it's not my field. As for quantum mechanics -- believe it or not, I find it conceptually simpler than classical mechanics. Classical mechanics requires me to wrap my head around all kinds of funny infinities and infinitismals that lead to such nonsense as Zeno's Paradox. I find the sums and finite differences of QM more "sensible" than the integrals and infinitismals of CM. People tend to think QM is philosophically more complex than CM, with but that's a cat in a box in a superposition of different colors.

  89. It's that HAIR by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    Perhaps it is that wild and crazy hair. Most people would have considered such hair fit for a bum. However, win a nobel prize and make some big discoveries with hair like that, and you are an instant icon. Nobody could ever have hair like that now without being called a copy-cat.

    If Neals Bohr had that hair first....

  90. spirituality as part of intelligence by CarpetShark · · Score: 1

    Of course, maybe he had such a humbled, awed, pacifistic and spiritual world view because of his deep understanding of it ;)

  91. Genius in Pop Culture by Dollar+Sign+TA · · Score: 1

    Not to belittle Einstein's genius, but if it weren't for his hair or his cute little expressions, would he be a household name? Do people really know his name because of his genius, or because he was a genius and could be turned into a pop icon of sorts. Think about many of scientists that are household names: Einstein with the crazy hair, Hawking with the wheelchair, Edison and the lightbulb, Newton and the apple. Each of these people, while geniuses, have something that pop culture can latch on to, and basically turn their name more friendly and less intimidatingly technical. My point here is: how many other geniuses have lived that we barely know of, simply because they don't have a "thing"?

  92. I Hope I'm Not the Only One Thinking by bacon55 · · Score: 1

    This is the greatest challenge I've ever heard.

  93. MOD PARENT UP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is truely the best post on this subject I've seen. It seems most of the physicists here are too narrow-minded to understand what you said. Perhaps that's exactly why they're not the next Einstein

  94. So, in effect.... by Namlak · · Score: 1

    there are so many brilliant physicists alive today

    ...we're running a beowulf cluster of brilliant physicists?

    Imagine!

  95. The fact of the matter is, genius is rarely by holyexcrement · · Score: 2, Interesting

    recognized. Some scientists from this generation will stand out in retrospect, just as some from previous generations did. The fact that the general american public no longer knows who is at the forefront of scientific innovation merely speaks to the sad state of scientific education in the United States. If the situation does not change, we will all suffer the consequences.

    --
    and wish in the other...
  96. Like post WWI and WWII Germany? by Cafe+Alpha · · Score: 1

    Will there ever be another Einstein? YES, IMHO. Provided we have the same ENVIRONMENT, ECONOMIC and SOCIAL conditions. They seed and stimulate the right individual.

    I know you mean to imply that better funding for social programs is a good thing, but the environment that created Einstein was the poverty of post WWI Germany and the hatred and violence of the Holocaust.

    I get awfully sick of people who are always overselling their pet causes. Just maybe even your most virtuous laundry list of social programs has little to do with the creation of genius, whatever other good they do.

    1. Re:Like post WWI and WWII Germany? by sec · · Score: 1

      You realize that Einstein's formative years were long before WW1, right?

  97. there will be another discovery! by recharged95 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    that his colleagues' belief in hyperspace theories in spite of the lack of evidence will encourage the insidious notion that science "is merely another kind of religion."

    I agree to that comment in the article such that we (the applied physics community) are somewhat wrapped with the theoretical clan of Einstein wannabes. Physics back in 1905 was not separated into 2 styles (theoretical & experimental/applied). You created a theory, then a gedanke experiment, then a physical experiment and finally provide an application--doesn't happen currently. In addition, quantum mechanics and following software OOD has completely turned our thought process on its head. From that and the computer, a lot of the other disciplines (Math, Biology, Chemistry and others) are using so many physics-derived concepts that the category "physics" has become blurred aside from pure theoretical studies. Then again, most cultures nowadays are so wrapped up into politics or $profiting$ that the real science is missed to be rediscovered years later--as Einstein found.

    I think the next revolutionary discoveries that are "categorized under physics" will either be in Biophysics or non-linear science (aka Chaos Theory). Lots of interesting applications and major shifts in our 'thought processes' are evident in those studies. Cynically, the next Einstein will likely come after we all are convinced that Intelligent Design is fact and Math&Science are not requirements in High School anymore (J/K)--nah, really, there will be another "Einstein" from the TFA's context... in due time.

  98. Mod parent up as Insightful by Rudisaurus · · Score: 1

    Amen to this! Absolutely! If I had mod points, you'd get 'em.

    --
    licet differant, aequabitur
  99. Re:Exactly! I think thats the point. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Bride of Frankenstein" was a movie about a misnomer.

  100. I once said: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "stop trying to get first post with a random catchphrase"

  101. but it's dangerous to guess that it's now by Trepidity · · Score: 1

    You might be right, but you may well be shown to be foolish 10 or 50 years from now. I'd bet on the latter.

  102. Re:Exactly! I think thats the point. by ultranova · · Score: 1

    Wouldn't the "Bride of Frankenstein" be the woman who married Frankenstein rather than one who would marry Frankenstein's monster?

    The monster would also be called "Frankenstein", since it would inherit Dr. Frankenstein's family name, the mad doctor being its closest equivalent to a parent. So "Bride of Frankenstein" could refer to the wife of either one of them.

    Unless, of course, the name was really Frank N. Stein, in which case the monster would have chicken brains and would therefore be unlikely to marry anyone ;).

    --

    Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

  103. Einstein is marketing also by protomala · · Score: 1

    Einstein, for reasons I don't know, is very well know, but I belive he wasn't by far the best phisichian or scientist, I belive the work of newton is by far more important and biggers.
    But it seems there was some kind of hype on 20th century, when he was already old, that he was a genius. It seems much like Steve Jobs and Mac fans, there is a lot of merketing behind those myths, more than real merit sometimes.
    I'm not saying they don't have merit, just that the myth growns bigger than it.

  104. You mean... by EmagGeek · · Score: 1

    Will there be another mediocre white male scientist who exploits the intellectual breakthroughs of his wife in order to gain fame and infamy?

    I would say most certainly yes..

  105. Paris Hilton is a prime example by EmagGeek · · Score: 1

    Paris Hilton is a prime example

    nyuk nyuk

  106. MOD DOWN KARMA WHORE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For Christ's sake! That poster obviously hadn't read a single word of the article, or even the summary, and just jolted out the first Einstein quote he could think of in order to gain some cheap karma. And the moderators, like always, fell for it, even though it had nothing to do with anything. What's worse, that's one of the worst of Einstein's famous quote. It sounds cute, but doesn't actually express a coherent thought.

    Sad.

    1. Re:MOD DOWN KARMA WHORE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I feel your anger, however, the poster is an AC, making any karma whoring attempt utterly futile.

  107. The building is now a Walmart by FishandChips · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The article misses out on a couple of things, perhaps. Einstein also stands out because he was an intensely moral man who had interesting and brave things to say on the sheer mystery of life. He was a highly gifted communicator who wrote well on a wide range of subjects far beyond his own field.

    Even if you don't subscribe to the "myth of genius", men of such rounded accomplishment are very rare. Knowledge has expanded so rapidly that it is hard enough to know your own field, let alone know enough worth saying about other fields. Perhaps Einstein's was the last generation that could span, if not all knowledge, then a substantial part of it. We are all specialists these days.

    Besides, we now live in a world in which enterprise and individuality of the Einsteinian kind are less appreciated. Since his heyday, so much has been subordinated to the dismal science of economics, the realm where the beancounter is king and inspiration is seen as a shocking waste of tax dollars or corporate profits. Arguably, the closest equivalent to Einstein today is not a scientist but the Dalai Lama, another gifted communicator who understands that knowledge alone is not enough.

    --
    Las qué passoun
    tournoun pas maï
  108. Perfection is achieved... by ThinWhiteDuke · · Score: 1

    ... not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to remove.

      -- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    --

    It would be nice to be sure of anything the way some people are of everything.
  109. Big diference. by mlopes · · Score: 1

    Einstein opened their minds so they could become as good physicists as he was, that's the big diference between Einstein ant today cientists.

  110. Einestein - Why he is so great. by asadz31 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    1. Einstein became famous and a household name in the year 1919, when during a solar eclipse, it was found and experimentaly proved, how gravity of the Sun bends light (which was predicted and measured by Einstein about 15 years back (1905))

    2. Einstein became famous when he redefined Newton's definition of gravity, proving that "action of a distance" is wrong.

    3. From Einstein's theory of gravity we know (and in fact we are now trying to measure it now a days) why a distant supernova changes the height of Empire State building.

    4) Einstein's is famous because of the nature of his invention, we have been living in a Universe which is defined by him; for example: the concept of relativity, which is highly unintuitive concept, but the moment we understand it, we say "how the hell he understood/guess it".

    5) Einstein is famous because of his definition of time-space relationship is more than a science fiction.

    5) Einstein is famous for his look; he just looks like a genius; and on the top of that he is humble.

    Now question is would there be another Einstein? Yes, of course, but not in our lifetime.

    However, there are lots of inventions in the area of particle physics, as Richard Feynman once said, "Now I can say nobody understand particle physics", it's a extremely complicated area to understand any behaviors of those sub atomic particles; so it has little meaning to ordinary people.

    Anyone can get Einstein like fame, by answering and proving one of the following questions,

    1. What is gravity?
    2. Why is the Universe so large and so old?
    3. (How) did the universe begin?
    4. (How) will the universe end?

    We will know at least one answer of the above within next 500 years. A new Einstein will born.

  111. The Russo-Japanese War by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Laying the foundation for WWII. Without the Complete ass kicking the Japanese gave the Russians, they might have remained reletively cloistered, their occult secrect societies never attracting the attentions of those who would found the Nazi party. To say nothing of how it fueled imperialist ambitions.

    1. Re:The Russo-Japanese War by techno-vampire · · Score: 1
      You mean as completely cloistered as they were when they helped occupy Paris after defeating Napolione?

      Actually, you do have a point, of a sort. If they hadn't lost so badly to the Japanese, they wouldn't have tried to reform their military and wouldn't have held out so long in WW I. If they'd lost quicker, there probably wouldn't have been a revolution.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
  112. He changed the way we view existence by invid · · Score: 1

    The great, memorable minds change our view of reality. Newton made it clockwork. Freud made it unconscious. Einstein made it relative. If someone else changes our universe for us again, they will be remembered.

    --
    The Moore-Murphy Law: The number of things that will go wrong will double every 2 years.
  113. Einstein proved right on EM & Grav by Falcon040 · · Score: 1

    Einstein could clearly see there were problems in the 'interpretation' of the results of the mathematical quantum mechanical equations, especially considering that the Quantum mechanics is really just a statistical model, and tried to derive a theory based on more fundamental physics.

    May be this was the correct way after all. Check out the research being done at the Calphysics Institute.

    In particular:

      - Nature of Mass
      - Origin of Inertia
      - Gravitation
      - Zero Point Energy

    Also some interesting papers:

      - Gravity and the Quantum Vacuum Inertia Hypothesis [pdf]

      - Update on an Electromagnetic Basis for Inertia, Gravitation, the Principle of Equivalence, Spin and Particle Mass Ratios
      - Connectivity and the Origin of Inertia
      - Inertial mass and the quantum vacuum fields
      - Stochastic nonrelativistic approach to gravity as originating from vacuum zero-point field van der Waals forces [pdf]
      - Zero-point field induced mass vs. QED mass renormalization
      - Inertial Mass and Vacuum Fluctuations in Quantum Field Theory

    It may be possible that Gravity is not a fundamental force after all. It may be derived from the three fundamental quantum forces: Strong, EM, and Weak.

    Mass may be derived from these forces. Hadrons (comprised of quarks) which feel the Strong force (and also the Weak and EM forces) have a stronger opposing force from the Zero Point Field (ZPF) and therefore have a high induced mass (i.e. have a higher measured mass). Electrons don't feel the Strong force - only the EM and Weak force - and so feel a lesser force from the ZPF and thus have a smaller induced mass. And finally, neutrinos only feel the Weak force and so have a tiny induced mass.

    Furthermore, as Gravity is not a fundamental force, but is a derived force along with its equivalent derived force - inertia, then the ZPF can be real, without producing infinite curvature of space. The gravitational force actually comes from an anisotropic ZPF caused by the scattering of the ZPF off local matter. In flat space though far from any masses, the ZPF is on average isotropic causing only microscopic jiggling of Strong, EM, and Weakly charged particles leading to the normal quantum uncertainty and heisenburg uncertaintu principal.

    Of course this is only a rough overview, there is a lot more in the links above. Check them out for a fuller understanding!

  114. The Coward is Wrong! by TheZorch · · Score: 1

    As a Disabled American I find it offensive that /. marked this post as "funny". Also the Coward who posted the tasteless remark is wrong.

    Steven J. Hawkings developed a rare neurological disorder at a young age which slowly paralyzed him. Afterwards, he throw himself into studying mathmatics, physics, and other sciences with immense furocity. He released a book which became a movie called "A Brief History of Time" which is today still considered a major resourced for information on Quantum Physics. He is a college professor and is highly respected by his students and by fellow scientists around the world.

    He has called the new Einstein by some. He even appeared on STTNG in a spot where Data was playing cards with him, Einstein, and Newton. How many other phyicists do you know of appeared on TV as guest stars? The only other great man of science I can recall who has had as much attention is the late, great Carl Sagan. Author of the book "Cosmos" which became a very popular PBS series, and the author of the book "Contact" which became a movie after he passed away from cancer.

    Even though Steven Hawkings is bound to a wheelchair for the rest of his life and must communicate using a computer he controls with his eyes he doesn't let the fact that he is paralyzed get him down. He's an inspiration to everyone who has a disability, whether they are visually impaired (like me) or physically impaired. His body may not work right anymore, but it didn't effect his mind any. The same thing is most people associate physical disability with mental disability far too often.

    --
    Michael "TheZorch" Haney
    thezorch@gmail.com
    http://thezorch.googlepages.com/home
    1. Re:The Coward is Wrong! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Also the Coward who posted the tasteless remark is wrong.
      Gee, thanks for clearing that up - I was worried that I would have to cut back on my physics studies.
  115. Highest intellectual achievement? by brunnock · · Score: 1

    In regards to the General Theory- As the creation of a single mind, it is undoubtedly the highest intellectual achievement of humanity. (Boorse, Motz, and Weaver; The Atomic Scientists)

  116. Wrong radical by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nahhh dude! It's radical! /hangten

  117. Point of Information by lbrandy · · Score: 1

    Really, I thought Euler had already deduced that space might be curved due to the properties of the universe, but was unable to find corroborating evidence and failed to publish his theories after decades of searching. At one time, he chose to try and determine the angles between three mountain peaks using techniques he developed for measurement, but was unable to establish that space was curved because the difference was within acceptable error for his equipment. Laser inferometry showed that he would have had to be accurate between 1-10 and 1-20 degrees in order to show that space was curved. The fact that he deduced this and sought evidence for it without any prodding or any recorded reason make Euler clearly the intellectual superior.

    That is a great story, but attributed to the wrong person. Gauss was the man, not Euclid, who set about finding evidence of a curved universe by measuring the angles between three mountains. He had a strong suspicion that Euclid's fifth postulate was not true, and had done much of the work, but never published it because he did not believe his proof was definitive enough. In his lifetime, another man, Bolyai, did publish similar work, which Gauss claimed to have also discovered previously.

    The entire premise of curved space comes about from the idea that Euler's fifth postulate may not, in fact, be true. Science spent 2000 years trying unsuccessfully to prove it was.

  118. 1905 by jaygatsby27 · · Score: 0

    No one will have a 1905 year until we are long, long gone. Davinci, Newton and Einstein seem to me to be the guys that were prodigious enough in their lives to be canonized and its going to be a while before it happens again. Besides, Einstein had great hair.

  119. Bzzzzt! Wrong answer by N8F8 · · Score: 1

    Do yourself a favor. Ignore this joker and go buy some of the books of Einstein's writings.

    --
    "God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
  120. How to make a great scientist into a legend by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fairly simple - bribe him to go to America long after he has done all his useful work.

    Does anyone think that Einstein would be cited as a genius by the Americans if he had stayed in his native Germany or Switzerland? The only reason Einstein is cited as THE scientist is that the US bought him when he was old, thus giving them a bit of reflected glory. If the US had to stick with native born scientists they would have to pretend that Franklin was a world-renowned figure (Oops - so they do!)

    1. Re:How to make a great scientist into a legend by Bassman59 · · Score: 1
      "Does anyone think that Einstein would be cited as a genius by the Americans if he had stayed in his native Germany or Switzerland?"

      If he'd stayed in Germany, he probably wouldn't have survived the Holocaust.

      -a

    2. Re:How to make a great scientist into a legend by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, I suppose that was why Switzerland was mentioned - he had Swiss nationality, and moved there during WW1. So he could have gone there. But even if he had died in Germany that would not address the point of the earlier post - Einstein is a 'Legend' rather than 'Great' because he went to America, and so the Americans could pretend he was one of theirs.

      The suggestion was that if he had not gone to America he would simply be a 'great' scientist, and the US would view him like Schrödinger or Dirac, who went to the UK.

  121. Maybe there are to few rogues in our lives today ? by aix+tom · · Score: 1

    ... Now where have I heard somethig like that before ? ;-)

  122. Copernicus?! Try Kepler, trollboy. by SunPin · · Score: 1
    It's like the way Copernicus swept away the huge complexity of the Ptolemaic astronomer's theory of planetary orbits, all those cycles and epicycles, with the simple and powerful idea of the elliptical orbit.

    In the time of Copernicus, all astronomy was trying to accomplish was a better navigation system. The epicycle and circular orbit remains in the Copernicus model. Copernicus replaced the geocentric model of the planets with a heliocentric model. It produced slightly more accurate navigation. He wasn't trying to change the world.

    Kepler discovered elliptical orbits.

    It must be nice to jump a few hundred years in one sentence, associate completely unrelated motives and turn Einstein into a Messiah sent by benevolent space aliens.

    Most of us can't do that.

    --
    Laws are for people with no friends.
  123. The division was his biggest failure. by anandsr · · Score: 1

    I think that was his biggest failure to let the country be divided.
    The division caused more bloodshed than the undivided country would have faced.
    I wish he had succeeded.

  124. Einstein the socialist by miletus · · Score: 1
    Am I the only one here who remembers that Einstein was a socialist with a big FBI surveillance file? Here's a link to his 1949 essay Why Socialism.

    Not that it has much to do with Einstein's value as a scientist, but it shows he was multifaceted, to say the least.

  125. Bio is the new Physics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...and brown is the new black.

    to quote:

    ...biology has displaced physics as the scientific enterprise with the most intellectual, practical and economic clout. Biology has given us thrilling, chilling technologies like genetic engineering, stem cells and cloning. Many of our most pressing problems are also biological: AIDS and other epidemics, overpopulation, species extinction, even warfare (if you believe what evolutionary psychologists say about the genetic roots of aggression).

    This is the point of the whole article, which most of /. apparently missed.

    It's a great article. However, it goes downhill from that point on, touting Crick and Watson as the true heirs to Einstein in stature, without mention of Rosalind Franklin's data -- which they stole out of her locked drawer while she was out of the country, and then published without attribution, with the excuse that she was "just a technician" (hogwash: she was hired at equal rank with Wilkins and Watson both, and designed and built her own X-ray rig, and was the only person in the world able to grow DNA crystals that could be X-rayed in sufficient detail to reveal the double helix structure of DNA) --combined with a lame-ass sexist bit of misdirection being that "perhaps she would have been more attractive if she'd done something more interesting with her hair" (Watson's comment in his book about how he really really really deserved the Nobel Prize after stealing Franklin's DNA data, "The Double Helix." Sheesh! )

    Conclusion: Bio may well be the new physics, but puh-leeze! Watson and Crick are no more the new Einstein than that other famous Nobel-winning Fraudster David Baltimore.

    I can't imagine Einstein stealing a woman's hard-won data and then publishing it as his own, any more than I can imagine him publishing data known to be fraudulent after having been exposed by a graduate student -- and then blacklisting the grad student in an attempt to get away with it.

    Bio may well be the new Physics, but its Einstein has yet to emerge. Einstein was at least honest .

  126. Shallow Comment by suwain_2 · · Score: 1

    This isn't quite as insightful as the other comments in this discussion, but did anyone else notice that the icons for this story are arranged in such a way that it appears Einstein is being sucked into the vacuum cleaner?

    --
    ________________________________________________
    suwain_2 :: quality slashdot p
  127. Einstein need not apply. by sevinkey · · Score: 1

    "The most powerful force in the universe is compound interest"

    I don't think we need great scientists so much anymore, since the Internet has allowed mankind to collaborate and specialize on levels never known before. Most change in science is evolutionary with many small breakthroughs and others tying them together and explaining what they all mean.

    Way I see it, 1 million independent minds half as strong as Einstein collaborating and conducting peer-reviews on each others work and learning more about their specialties has and will continue to generate the best science ever known to man. However, this does not lead to an science celebrities on the scale of Einstein or Newton or even Bohr.

    Too bad though, because these sorts of role models inspire more people to study the sciences.

    1. Re:Einstein need not apply. by Androk · · Score: 1

      I disagree strongly with this. It takes the one genius to really push humanity, the million really smart guys that come after can figure out all the uses of the ideas that the one world shattering genius put forth. I am not of those genius's by any stretch, but think it's folly to say 100 of Einstein's peers or even a thousand could have come up with the notions he did, but they sure helped him work out the details, and did the supporting work necessary for the proof.

    2. Re:Einstein need not apply. by sevinkey · · Score: 1

      Interesting reply. From your comment I'm not sure we disagree as strongly as you think. Definitely don't have the answers, but I think this topic is interesting.

      Perhaps it's not the genious of Einstein that made him special, but his persistance and leadership (not leadership in the CEO sort of since... more the role model sort of sense).

      Is it the ideas that make all the difference? I've read many times of other scientists that had pieces of Einstiein's scientific puzzle many years before him, but he had put them together into concrete principals that worked together. Is it that he was able to digest and piece it all together in a new package that make him special?

      In this brave new world we live in, do you think someone have this very specialize gift without having the be the master physisist that Einstein was? Obviously such a person would need to know what their talking about (ie, not a sales executive), but that doesn't mean that person would neccessarily need to do the scientific research him or herself to be able to bring forth fundamental change.

  128. physics "loose ends" like 1900 again by peter303 · · Score: 1

    The situation in physics still reminds me of 1900 when most physicists thought physics was "almost complete" after two centuries of elaborating upon Newton. There were a still loose ends however: blackbody radiation formulas blew up with infinities; the speed of light measured isotropic when physics predicted it show change in the direction of motion. Of course these "loose ends" mushroomed into entire new branches of physics.

    In 2000 we have the same scenario. Many think physics is "almost unified", most of cosmology and fundamental particles have been charted or predicted. However, nature has a way of throwing curve balls at us. Will another "Einstein" grab many of these loose ends and clean it up for us?

  129. Only so far as it goes by macurmudgeon · · Score: 1

    While it may be true that there are more brilliant physicists working today making it harder for someone to stand out, I think that there are a couple of other issues involved. Several people have already mentioned that Albert was a non-conformist and the different make for better press. But the other reason that he was so popular was that he was extremely quotable.

    Mark Twain was a gifted writer but a good part of his stature came not just from his work but the quips that he dropped. Give us another genuinely quotable, quirky, flamboyant playboy genius and we may have another media darling like Einstein. It was as much the press and the brilliance.

  130. Eclipse Einstein? by dex.pdx · · Score: 1

    In order to do that someone would have to create an Infinite Improbability Drive and we all know how unlikely that is.

  131. Einstein Has Left the Building by tek4u · · Score: 1

    Einstein is a great scientist no doubt, but is he the greatest? Is this the conspiracy of Americans who feel they own the world and think they can force their lies down people's throat?Americans are good in marketing - be it true or a lie.History is a witness to it.

    I do agree with the comment that there are many brillient brains around the world today and it is very hard to pick the greatest of them all..Its a good change and good for mankind too.

    I also feel Einstein was great but not the greatest.

  132. Why Einstein stood out. by edunbar93 · · Score: 1

    Sure, there were the great discoveries he made, but other men who made astounding contributions to science aren't nearly as well known. It's in no small part because of his ability to promote himself, and the causes he believed in. Especially since he was a pacifist during the two biggest wars in history, he was particularly vocal.

    --
    "No problem. I have the capacity to do infinite work so long as you don't mind that my quality approaches zero."-Dilbert
  133. Re:Easier than reading the Heisenberg paper by vertinox · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Every time I read that, the content changes into an unpredictiable state.

    --
    "I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
    -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
  134. The real problem.... by RayBender · · Score: 1
    I think I disagree with the claim. Physics today is pretty stagnant. The truth is that the very best minds aren't going into physics - they are getting rich on Wall Street. At least, that's what happened to the 3 smartest Phys majors in my class (the ones the rest of us went to for help when we got stuck on Jackson-level problems). Since then a couple of postdocs I know have been poached as well.

    The truth is that fields do lose their momentum. With the cancellation of the SSC and the total dominance of the Standard model, I think physics is there. Especially given that the biggest new things in Physics are the anthropic principle and a theory that isn't even wrong...

    --
    Human genome = 3 billion base pairs = 6 GBit. Windows + Office = 20 Gbit. Which is more impressive?
  135. Goog by blueZ3 · · Score: 1

    Of course!

    --
    Interested in a Flash-based MAME front end? Visit mame.danzbb.com
  136. Way OT - Hitler and Mao by onkelonkel · · Score: 1

    Odd that the same people who wouldn't be caught dead with a picture of Hitler on their chest think it's cool to wear a Chairman Mao T-shirt. Mao arguably killed 5 times as many people as Adolf. It is indeed all about perception.

    --
    None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
  137. Show me an even prime number by snowwrestler · · Score: 1

    "And by induction, all odd numbers are prime. Sometimes patterns really do stop. Even in history."

    Not all odds are prime, but no primes are even.

    Patterns don't start or stop, they're just misinterpreted or misunderstood.

    --
    Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
  138. Einstein was an asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Chernobyl, and the day is not far off when we'll all be nuked. Thanks to his "discoveries". Fuck the bastard. That he is revered is simply due to jewish media propaganda.

  139. Give us gravity at quantum level by gilboooo · · Score: 1

    There will be one or ones.

    Those that unify general relativity and quantum theory.

    Those that will give us the great unification of forces and that ever evading gravity.

  140. Thinking inside the box? by Mal-2 · · Score: 1

    I sort of disagree here. I think what is most important is that we are on the outside of a black box trying to control what is within by sending in effectors and observing changes. Using this method, no matter how precise, we will never know what is in the box, and so will never know of all the possibilities that we are missing.

    Is this a case where we should be thinking INSIDE the box? I suppose, like the state of Schroedinger's cat, we shall never know until we open the box, which we all know belongs to some Greek gal named Pandora...

    Mal-2

    --
    How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
  141. oops by Quadraginta · · Score: 1

    You're quite right, I was thinking of Kepler, not Copernicus! Thank you for the correction.

    1. Re:oops by SunPin · · Score: 1

      Thanks for not getting offended by the flame. Peace.

      --
      Laws are for people with no friends.
  142. Re:Exactly! I think thats the point. by Drakai · · Score: 1

    "...or that dude who created Frankenstein..."

    You may be picking nits but really the phrase stands as a commentary of the general intellectual malaise plaguing the world.

    Ha!

    Either way, the monster is as much Frankenstein as his creator. It is how he is known and if that is not a name/alias then what is?

    As to the grandparent post, I generally disagree with the assertion that people are dumber. I believe that people are percieved as dumber. And I blame that womanizing, self-serving, jackass Einstein.

    Here you have a famous scientist given the world's ear and what does he do? Make excuses for his own bad behavior is what. Can't match your socks? Tell the world, it's immaterial. Can't remember a simple phone number? Say that if it's been written down then there is no need to memorize it.

    [rant]
    Tell future generations that imagination is more important than knowledge?

    Well, guess what Einstein? That advice cost me a shot at enrolling in a prestigious university. I have imagination falling out my backside, but it has no direction or purpose and standardized testing asks for details. Advanced degree's (Master or PhD) require retention, not learn and purge.
    [/rant]

    It may be that Einstein simply gave lazy/dumb people an excuse to not remember anything. But by that same standard why are we so critical of people that do not have sufficient factoids on tap? Seriously, the who's who of modern science? You would have to be a physicist or a physics junkie to have enough names on tap to hit 5 let alone 10, imho.

  143. Re:Exactly! I think thats the point. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wasn't it Abner M.(al) Brain?

  144. Maybe knowing too much math is dangerous by dido · · Score: 1

    Think of what might have happened if the natural philosophers in the days of Kepler, Galileo, and Copernicus had at their disposal Fourier theory. They might never have abandoned the epicycles, as these epicycles, at their heart, would be described today as terms in a Fourier series. We would have been stuck with that cumbersome theory until some genius realized that Fourier analysis was the wrong way of looking at the problem, and the advance of physics might have been retarded for a century or more.

    Perhaps modern physics has a similar problem, there being knowledge of too many mathematical tools that scientists have fallen into the rut of using certain ones because they seem to work so well. In the meantime, the edifice of modern physics grows more and more top-heavy.

    --
    Qu'on me donne six lignes écrites de la main du plus honnête homme, j'y trouverai de quoi le faire pendre.
    1. Re:Maybe knowing too much math is dangerous by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Think of what might have happened if the natural philosophers in the days of Kepler, Galileo, and Copernicus had at their disposal Fourier theory. They might never have abandoned the epicycles, as these epicycles, at their heart, would be described today as terms in a Fourier series.

      As you say, epicycles essentially were Fourier series, so there is no need to speculate as to what would happen if Fourier series were available: they more or less were. Regardless, your suggestion is silly. Fourier analysis is available today yet nobody uses it in place of a fundamental law, for the same reason epicycles were abandoned: curve-fitting is not predictive.
  145. Good point by Quadraginta · · Score: 1

    I've seen an interesting illustration of your excellent point in certain types of theoretical many-body physics. Basically, because it's straightforward to do computer simulations of complex many-body systems, people tend to turn to that tool first. If it gets them the answers they want, that tends to short-circuit the effort that would otherwise go into developing new theoretical insight that would solve the problem without the brute-force number crunching.

    Now, all scientists certainly prefer to get their answers from brilliant, simple theoretical insight rather than brute-force numerical computation, but...if the latter is much faster and cheaper, well, you do need to publish or perish...

  146. Re:Einestein - Why he is so great. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Much of what you are saying is nonsense, and could be said of any scientist. Lots of people have answered, and are answering, your last four questions.

    Einstein worked on Relativity, which deals with large systems. Heisenburg and Schrodinger, by contrast, worked on Quantum Theory, which deals with small systems.

    Einstein went to America for WW2, so the Americans could claim he was 'their' scientist. Schrodinger and Heisenburg stayed in Europe. The only reason Einstein and Relativity are treated as special in some way is because of boastful Americans pretending that their scientist is the best.

    If Heisenburg had moved to America and Einstein had stayed in Germany you would find that Quantum Mechanics and Heisenburg would be treated as special, and Einstein would be forgotten.

    Such is the power of Hollywood.

  147. Artificial Intelligence by Msdose · · Score: 1

    In the near future we will have solved the Question: What is the nature of consciousness? Once this algorithm is etched into silicon, all problems will be solvable with brute force (more memory, speed, etc). Scientists are obsolete, like chess players.

  148. Actually I am a chemist by Ogemaniac · · Score: 1

    But you have hit the nail on the head. The questions being asked in the early 1900's were big but simple, and lended themselves to correspondingly important but simple answers. The unsolved questions that remain today are either big and hopelessly complex, or small and merely really complex. There will never be another "Einstein" because there simply isn't a pile of big questions with readily understandable answers remaining to be solved.

    Yesterday, I had to work my way through an obscure polymer physics paper I found from 1995. The derivations were far more complex than Einstein's work and required much more mathematical sophistication. Yet this paper will probably not be read by more than a few hundred people and its authors will never receive fame and fortune because of it.

    This reminds me of a broader point. As the number of scientists expands (there are more scientists working today than have retired in all of history), it becomes increasily difficult to do the following two things:

    1: Follow what everyone else is doing
    2: Have an insight that no one else already has had

    I would estimate that 9/10 of my insights lead directly into someone else's previously published work. However, given the explosion of the literature, it is becoming harder to confirm this. I had the same insight as the authors of the paper I earlier mentioned. I spent probably a full day of work looking through the literature to see if I could find any information about this idea, and came up blank. I then actually began unknowingly reproducing the paper, and actually got comparible Monte Carlo results with a little simulation program I wrote (while failing at the derivation). Only after putting five days or so of work into the idea did I come across the paper in an obscure journal. Worse yet is getting "scooped", which occurs when you have an idea, put months of work into it, and then suddenly you find that someone publishes a paper nearly identical to the one you are working on. Unfortunately for you, they had the idea six months earlier than you did.

    Comparing the results of today's scientists and those of a century prior are simply meaningless. The problems are smaller and more difficult, and the number of competitors has expanded exponentially.

  149. Re:Exactly! I think thats the point. by Mycroft_VIII · · Score: 1

    It's simple, MOST people make the same mistake you did. It's been going on for years.
        It may have started when the first movies (IIRC Charles Ogle played the monster in the first (silent) version of the movie) came out.
        Most people refer to the original Star Wars movie as "Star Wars" and not "Star Wars: A New Hope", which is the full title.

    Mycroft

    --
    https://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4c3ed6600b6ea
  150. 55% of research done via public purse by leoPetr · · Score: 1
    The NIH document shows how crucial taxpayer-funded research is to the development of top-selling drugs. According to the NIH, U.S. taxpayer-funded scientists conducted at least 55 percent of the research projects that led to the discovery and development of the five top-selling drugs in 1995.
    Whenever a medical treatment is developed, of course.
    --
    My other body is also not wearing any.