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An Interview With 2old2play's Doodi
vinnie2k writes "This is an interesting interview with the founder of 2old2play.com. In it he discusses the future of gaming for older people, why we need communities like 2old2play, and how the gaming industry needs to refocus its efforts on the games it makes. Cool insight and worth the read for any older gamers."
WTF? Since when is anyone over the age of 25 an "old gamer?" Now, Old Grandma Hardcore is an old gamer.
Entrepreneur : (noun), French for "unemployed"
I'm 41 and play Counter Strike Source on a daily basis. I am not too old to play.
Self awareness - try it!
...to use numbers instead of words and pluralize with a 'Z'.
"An Interview With 2old2play's Doodi"
who is this 2old2play and why are we interviewing his "Doodi"?
/. is overrun by bed-wetting elitist nerds
let it be known, for anything other than servers, a *nix OS sucks
but TFA makes it clear that in the gaming world; 25 is the new 60!
It sounds more like "gaming for gamers who have a life". Many of the MMORPGs require so much online time per week to advance that you can't have a life outside the game.
Hey, you're never 2old to be /.'ed!
A 26yo declaring that anyone over 25 is "too old"? Let me be the first to stand up and yell "stupid young whippersnapper!"
*sigh* Kids these days...
The founder of a group called 2old2play is younger than I am? I went to the article expecting to see some insightful commentary from somebody at least in his 40's. I stopped reading when I got to his age.
Then again, now that I look closer at his name and the name of the group, I have a hard time believing he's over 18.
If I don't put anything here, will anyone recognize me anymore?
I find it strange how the stereotype of gaming has been given to younger people. There doesn't seem to be anything inherent in gaming itself that keeps itself from older people. Perhaps it is only the industry which gears itself towards younger people, because it has more widely available material to be used. If the industry had sufficient material (perhaps just better storylines?), I can't see any good reason why gaming wouldn't be popular among all ages aside from social stigmas.
-Da3vid-
Today I was playing some Enemy Territory (Sniper mod) for a few hours.
Server was a Clan branded one, and a few of the members joined in the frag fest (well as much of a fest as sniper mod can be, but I digress).
To my surprise, they asked me to try out for their clan.
My response? How late do you play as I am old (well not really but I have responsibilities)
Average age of the clan? 32.
That was a surprise to me.
I guess certain games attract different age groups (duh) but I would have thought that a *clan* would generally be younger folks.
Anyone else have this experience?
The truth about Led Zep should never be told on
It's just people can't let go. You can play an MMORPG only an hour a week and still enjoy it. No, you won't make it to the highest level and do all that shit, but that doesn't mean there's still not plenty to do. However people get all competitive about it like there's a standard they have to meet or something. There's not, you can be as casual or as hardcore as you like and it works fine.
I'm an old timer. I recently found a very challenging game, exciting, and fraught with risk. The game is called Automatic Transmission. Take it apart. Try to put it back together. Hope that it works. Fun.
It might not mean "Doodie" (i.e. "poop").
I used to work for an Israeli woman who had a cousin named Doodi, which in Hebrew evidently is a nickname for "David", and does not have any fecal connotations.
Remember: "Woo Suk-Hwang" might sound/read funny to an English reader, but it probably doesn't mean "Who sucks cock" in Korean... Same with "Doodi".
Then again, maybe it DOES mean "poop". Ask him!
With spending like this, exactly what are "conservatives" conserving?
Apparently you guys have never actually played on Xbox live or anything else like it. All you get there, unless you can find some adults to play with, are a bunch of kids that... well, act like kids. Screaming, yelling, calling you Ni**er and any other various expletives. Let me tell you, it's not a good time. When I first found this community it was definitely heaven for gamers. New friends, good friends at that, and fun gaming again. Check out the site before you guys do what Slashdotters seem to do... dis, dis, dis. Actually, you guys kinda act like kids? So do what you do because I'm sure I'm next. If you aren't one of these lemmings just following the 'dissing' crowd and you forgot what it was like to have fun gaming with fun people then give the site a shot. The point is to give people that are non-teens a place to find others like them so they can game and have fun again. Jammyman
As a co-founder of 2old2play.com, I am also disappointed with the bitching here on slashdot regarding the article. The reason we picked 25 as a staring age is because it's when most people mature, start families, have kids, etc. Our oldest member is in his 80's and we have plenty in between. I'm 32 myself, so we do cover the "older gamers" crowd... DSmooth
The targeting of games to younger people creates a market opportunity for a small visionary company that realizes that in the future, gamers will come from all age demographics.
http://www.tradealyst.com/
I found it sort of strange that they referred to 25 as being old, senior citizen old. When I played Star Wars Galaxies (before it tanked), the average age for guild members was in the ~23-26 range. Most had jobs, a couple had children, a lot had wives/girlfriends.
I think I was the only one under 18 at the time (2 years back, I turn 18 this month). Most players that were in my age group were incredibly annoying; there's no doubt in my mind that the guild just wanted a more mature gaming group.
Granted, I no longer play MMORPGs as they take too much time. They suck the life blood out of me. I prefer just kicking back on less time consuming games, and my ideal teammate/opponent is usually a bit older than I am just for the sake of a greater chance of it being more fun (or tolerable).
Fun Zoid RPG
At slashdot from "adults." Apparently you guys have never actually played on Xbox live or anything else like it. All you get there, unless you can find some adults to play with, are a bunch of kids that... well, act like kids. Screaming, yelling, calling you Ni**er and any other various expletives. Let me tell you, it's not a good time. When I first found this community it was definitely heaven for gamers. New friends, good friends at that, and fun gaming again. Check out the site before you guys do what Slashdotters seem to do... dis, dis, dis. Actually, you guys kinda act like kids? So do what you do because I'm sure I'm next. If you aren't one of these lemmings just following the 'dissing' crowd and you forgot what it was like to have fun gaming with fun people then give the site a shot. The point is to give people that are non-teens a place to find others like them so they can game and have fun again. Jammyman
...haven't played any computer game since Trek on a PDP-11. SUCH A WASTE of time. If my kids spent half the time that they play games on learning a computer language, then they would be pulling down six figure salaries. Afterall, sitting in front of a tube is sitting in front of a tube. I do that 8 hours a day. But I get big bucks for it.
Can I rant on crossword puzzles too? Basically, supporting old apps is the same as a giant crossword puzzle. Think about it. When was the last time you got paid to do a crossword?
I am also disappointed with the bitching here on slashdot regarding the article
I guess you're new here?
gadgetophile.com
25 seems to be the base for the site. I took some time to check out the users and most of them are in their 30's and 40's. Seems like a place to get away from the cheating, screaming, kids of the gaming world. Im on similar sites for ps2 and I think there should be more of them. Having a site for all consoles and PC seems like a good idea.
Sadly, jammyman many communities out there are nothing but huge "dissing" crowds. /. just has much smarter ones.
I'm unnerved by the name of this site. It requires participants to admit to themselves that they are either "old" or "too old" to do X.
/couldn't read the article, was already slashdotted
It seems that that is a failure of marketing 101. Age is a sensitive issue for many, and with the advancements and new thinking behind aging and longevity, the generation of baby boomers, and younger, are going to be fighting it and delaying it at every turn. This web site's core audience is not very likely to admit to being too old for anything.
This could be different in an Eastern culture (where age is a more positive concept associated with wisdom.) Some people are happy to associate themselves and admit to other failings or issues (you could probably sell a lot of drugs from "OCDfreaks.com.") But a quick sampling of slashdot postings is showing that many of what is likely this site's core audience are refusing to associate themselves as being potential members.
I recently got back into Action Quake 2 after a 6 year hiatus. I was old at 25 but good.
The first month I sucked. I figured it was age.
Now I see that gaming skills require construction honing. I'm decent now, and have noticed my hand-eye coordination is better in real life. Gaming also gave me back my old edge in scanning a room to notice things faster than others (great in a business with long punch lists!).
Practice, practice!
Old fogies, come back to Action Quake 2.
There are plenty of 25-year old's I'd be happy to play with (I'm 41 and have been playing online games since the first UT). In fact, there are plenty of 13 year olds. There are also a bunch of 25+ jerks and your Doodi comes across as less mature than lots of the kids I play against daily. Hmph.
I'm not wrong. You haven't thought about it hard enough.
i agree completely! i wish my father could play video games with any skill, it would give us at least one thing to talk about. however one of my uncles, i have happily spent many evenings laughing cheerfully as we killed prostitutes in GTA:San Andreas. truly, when this last gap is gone and everyone plays games, it will return to a more family time, with more leisure time spent together. i look forward to killing prostitutes with my own son/daughter (heh, just had to go back and add /daughter, guess i just learned something about my hopes for the future) in a cyber worldthat sounds like a joke but i'm deadly serious
I'm 30 years old, but I remember playing the my first Sierra game, Kings Quest .
From a very early age I was programming, TRS80's etc. Lucky my old man was a programmer, we had all types of all gear lying about.
My Favourites were:
Space Quest
Police Quest
Hero's Quest
Leisure Suit Larry
And last but not least: Zork
I am disappointed to see they no longer make such games, now moving to more action type games. Adventure games were cool.
That's because us old folks (I'm in my 40's) find gaming to be boring. We've found more interesting things to do.
I'm over 40, and I regularly play Lego Starwars with my 7yo son (highly rcommended game btw). And I play Doom 3 after he's gone to bed.
Since when was there an age limit?
If my call is important, why am I talking to a recording?
I'm disappointed with the spelling/grammar of the article. Kobe Tia? Ages of Empires? C'mon...
Other than that, this Doodi guy just isn't all that interesting. They might as well just interview some random kid on a CS server or something. This article doesn't deserve to be on the front page of Slashdot.
DoodI:
/. ignoramuses who can't bother to read the article or are looking to earn their +5 moderation by knocking somebody else down with their ill-informed quips.
/. which allows alot of comment static and troll-like behaviour to go unchecked. Don't be disappointed, you serve a greater good.
Please ignore the
Game related articles don't get read / moderated as thoroughly as most other articles on
EA Sports presents: "Extreme Shuffleboard".
I object to that article, and to the next reply.
I agree with you - 25 isn't an old gamer. Not anymore.
Shit. We grew up on video games. I owned an original (woodgrain) Atari 2600, and I was very young. I was never spoiled with video games, but I do remember playing them as far back as I can remember. Just because I'm in my mid-20's now doesn't mean I'll suddenly lose interest - and it doesn't mean I need different games.
MMORPG's are a pretty new thing, really. They're not for everyone - you have to have a lot of free time to do anything meaningful in the game. If they try to dumb it down to where you don't have to put in a lot of time, it ceases to be a worthwhile MMORPG. Fortunately, for every MMORPG, there's about two hundred non-MMORPG games released; pleny for us people with full time jobs.
I think I'll always enjoy FPS games, especially team-based ones. I've always enjoyed an (offline) RPG, although nothing's been able to add up to Ultima in my eyes. So if they start trying to make new games that tailor to us "old gamers of 25 years of age" thinking that we want something different, they won't sell us any of those games.
- It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
my husband and i are clan gamers. mostly battlefield 2 for us and the rest of our clan plays everything from WoW, GuildWars, i've even seen them playing StarCraft. our clan caters to the older crowd. my husband is 47, and he's not the oldest member of the clan. http://www.elderwolves.com/ sure we do have younger people playing with us, but thier mostly very respectful. to be honest, i really do not think gaming is strictly for the youngin's, nor is gaming strictly gender bound. for the longest time i thought i was the only woman playing FPS games untill very recently. stop by the site, were always looking for new recruits. i know i'm going to get yelled at for getting the site /.ed but thats ok, they will forgive me eventually.
He must have missed that the average gamer is his age or older. Us mid 20s - mid 30s ARE the target market. Video games since we grew up with them and have disposable cash.
Vermifax
Logout
You're a Republican, right?
you get old when you stop playing games.
true, most every parent you see out there that does not play games themselves and realized the intellectual building, socialisation, ect - bitches and complains that kids do nothing but play games and dont socialise, or improve their reasoning and risk judgement, ability to think quick and on their feet, or notice things in the real world -
online gaming lets you talk (at least chat) with other people, especially true when you are in a regular clan, in most rpgs and especially mmorpgs, you learn risk management by whether or not you should take the short way after walking for an hour and end up dead, or keep going the long way and get where you're going easier, you learn to think quick by realizing the enemy's stategy and how to counter it - whoever figures it out quicker is more likely to win, last of all, especially to people who play action shooters like Battlefield and Counter Strike, you get quicker reflexes and notice more little things by watching for the enemy's flashbang that just rolled through the door, letting you know to either look away, or get ready to toss one back or just spray n' pray...
End of possibly pointless ranting...
2old2play is just another a game-site that exists since august 2005 (not really a long time ago);
The article is written by its submitter and is an uninteresting read. I guess this article will give them well needed publicity.
Guess who posted this "news item"... (hint: it's the Beatles-Beatles guy)
--Use ant to make
As I'm writing, this article has received 151 replies, mostly from gamers 25 - 40. Many of the responses seem to indicate that this group of people is intersted in an online community tailored to the interests of adult gamers, but dislikes the insinuation that being over 25 makes them "too old" to play games. That's what I've gotten out of the posts I've read, which isn't all of them.
/. thread can pick up 500-600 responses, so this figure could grow to 18%-20% of your membership. And I would venture to say that the vast majority of this group is right in your target demographic -- and probably not regular users of your website.
If we assume that no one posted more than one reply, then 150 users are on this thread -- a group equal to 5% of your current membership (3000, according to the interview). A decent
So my question to you is: if you really want to grow to 10,000 users,rather than being "disappointed with the bitching" wouldn't it make more sense to listen?
Per ardua ad astra.
I was playing this free korean shooter game named "gunz", when people started giving out their age. Apparently everyone in the map was around 14, except me, clocking at 30.
One of the kids then proceeded to tell me "how brave I was to keep gaming at my age, and not care what people think."
The kid diplomatically chose to interpret my obliviousness as bravery. Now I suppose I have to acknowledge the age gap and go hide in some dark place where teenagers can't find me.
Or not.
I'm 24, and kids fucking ruin MMORPGs for me. Not all of them, just the immature ones.
/. style, I am generalising.
I stopped playing WoW because I just got fed up with them. When I started playing there weren't many kids playing, and when I left there were apparently still not many kids playing, but for sure, the loud, vocal, wankers were all 12 year olds and less.
I got fed up with having instance-run arguments with morons who couldn't reason and were as rational as my cat. Especially since they can never be bothered to type properly and everything is a translation effort for me. "Lol m8 u suk!" etc.
In summary, I want servers on MMORPGS that are 18+ only. I'm willing to pay a premium for this.
Disclaimer: yes some adults are just as bad, and yes not all kids are bad, in fact, I met some awesome pre-teens that I got on well with. In true
is what will happen to those gamers that cut their teeth on the early Microprose games? Microprose made great games with fabulous manuals. Even the boxes for their games kicked ass. In large part, the counter-strike type games with a bazillion keys to control everything are directly descended from these games with a large dose of Doom-style w-a-s-d keys thrown in. Back then, there wasn't any consideration given to crossing a game title over (for obvious reasons) to a console with a limited number of buttons available. This now appears to be the norm.
I don't know that games designed for this cross-over have been dumbed-down or whatever one cares to call it but they do "feel" different to me. They aren't as sophisticated and, beyond simply killing things, don't seem to be as challenging. I'm in my late 30's now and started gaming by playing "silent service" which was rapidly followed by just about every title Microprose put out. These games had so many key combo's that they had keyboard overlays. Perhaps all of those controls weren't strictly necessary but there was something satisfying in the ability to control and do just about everything. It seemed to allow for more flexibility that just isn't present with consoles.
I'm 47. Have a family, 2 kids, job, house, etc. Working on my black belt in Okinawan Karate (Uechi-ryu style). My dad and I built our own Altair 8800 when they first arrived. I've been playing computer games from day 1. I love the shooters. Started with the original Wolfenstein and have played most of the better ones (and some of the really bad ones) since then. I'm currently playing Serious Sam 2 and Quake 4 single player, and will go to online play when I've finished them both. Don't ever see myself stopping. The only difference now is I don't have as much time to play, so if I get an hour or two in in the evening, I'm doing OK. Maybe I should start my own group - 2Ancient2WalkButCanStillMoveTheMouseAndClickToKill BadGuys.com
I don't mind listening, I just find it annoying that the knee-jerk response is always to ream an article, then within the comments you start finding some nice gems. I hope we do get some new blood from this posting. Thanks for your comment. Now if only the rest were as sensible as yours...
DSmooth
Which of course makes it even sadder :(
He is only 17 years younger then I am. It is a wonder I am still alive! PS2 PSP PC Xbox 360 And money to buy games with :)
For those posting on the literal meaning of 2old2play: Have you taken the time to understand or even read the article, this site is a place for people over the age of 25 to form a community of older gamers, noone is saying we are 2old. We beleive the opposite as you would all know, but I guess from the comments on your board that noone reads before posting, sorry for the rant, but can't post as the new traffic has crippled the site temporarily and I wanted to see your comments. And for the most part I can say that younger posters are the ones whom have taken the time to read and understand what we are all about, and thats a shame. Because if you are an older gamer, especially gaming online, then you don't know what your missing not being a part of this site.
For some time I've thought that gaming is an enormous engine for innovation that has not been tapped. It started when I watched my girlfriend become a kick-ass SimCity builder after her first year of grad school in Urban Policy, and I wondered if it might not also flow in the other direction. That is, informed experts are likely to excel in games somewhat in their area of expertise, but might not amateurs who excel at games not also be able to arrive at scenarios/solutions that could inform experts' work?
My specific thought was that if you had a networked SimCity game/competition with city factors based off real, current tax, crime statistics, environmental studies, etc., then participants would actually be gaming out scenarios that could inform real-world urban policy.
Yes, a lot depends on the underlying logic of the game. And people aren't algorithms. And the idea of Skippy the boy next door winning the prize to re-design the neighborhood park is odd.
But it could also produce some excellent, creative solutions. Citizens might feel more directly involved with the direction of their communities. Kids and people of all ages might be inspired to learn more about math, programming, engineering, government, etc. Best of all, the process would feel like entertainment but also actually produce something useful in the end.
Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
thats what i was thinking. our clan has a few of its own servers. and our clan is multi-national. we have our own guild for guild wars and we also have 3 teams playing league games in the TWL. http://www.elderwolves.com/ stop by, say hi come get your game on with The ElderWolves Clan!!!! we are always recruiting. apply today!!! go ahead, /. our server.
http://pixelantes.blogspot.com/2005/11/who-are-the se-video-gamers-anyway.html
/. discussion on this topic get completely sidetracked by the kind of people adult gaming communities such as 2old2play were formed to avoid.
ESA does a study on gamers every year. Last one showed that the average age of gamers is 30. That was kinda surprising to me. I knew it was going up, but at 30 already?
What is not surprising to me is to see
2old2play is not the only adult gaming community. I believe geezergamers.com is older and bigger. seasonedgamers.com is one that I belong to, and it does a GREAT job at making the online gaming experience enjoyable. XBox Live is filled with jerks, griefers, cheaters, homophobes, racists and other miscreants. The adult gaming communities form to avoid the negative aspects. It works great.
In Soviet Russia, I ruled you
Geez... how to start a "when I was his age" story without starting it with "When I was your age"?
:-)
I turned 25 in 1977. I was as hardcore a computer gamer as it was posible to be in that long ago era. I also went through a huge personal crisis. I was married, I had graduated from college. I had a job with a real company doing real work. I was looking at buying a house. I was starting to have serious problems finding time for gaming. But, the thing that really bothered me was that I was still alive. Like so many others of my generation I grew up in fear of the bomb as a young child and spent the time from early junior high until when I was in college in fear of dying in a rice paddy in Viet Nam. (If you don't know what 1A was you probably won't understand what I just said.)
I awakened one day and realized that I was not only still alive, but I was probably going to live a long time. It was a serious shock and sent me into a tail spin that worried my wife like nothing I had ever done before. And this is a woman who put up with my spending all night playing D&D every weekend!
It was of course, totally unrealistic, the result of having internalized ideas that were as false as false can be. But, it was still a real crisis for me. It took a lot of work to get used to the idea that I had a future and that maybe I should plan for it.
My veiw of the world was completey skewed, as completely skewed as that of someone who is currently 26 believing that he is 2old2play. But, at age 25 it was real to me. You can't see things with from the prespective of experience it you do not have any experience. If you are 25 year old combat vetran, or have already had children, or have already lived through the deaths of your parents or other loved ones, or servived a life threatening ordeal you might be 25 and have enough experience to have some real perspective on life, but someone who thinks that 25 is 2old2play isn't likely to fall into that category. All I can say is that his reality is real to him and will be real until he gets over it.
Although... I have to say that mourning your lost youth while you are still a youth is one of the more unique mental problems I have run across
Stonewolf, 53 and still young.
P.S.
I did have to reduce the amount of time I spent gaming, but I never gave up playing.
I am a current member of 2old2play.com and contributor to the site. I am a 37 year old female gamer who has found a group of amazing people at this site, including Doodi. I can not believe what I am reading here. It seems that most of you haven't even read the article before making the flaming comments you have. The site name is meant to be cheekish you morons. This site has brought a new meaning to video and pc gamers tired of dealing with loud mouth young kids all the time. It's not just a website it is a place where friends meet and extended families are created. I would give my right arm for half the guys and gals on this site. For those of you that did not read the article or bother to visit the site we offer everything: Forums and clans for most console gaming, pc forums with a site guild for WOW and other games, ladder tourney software for xbox live games and I believe Doodi is working on other console ladder software as well, forums for sports, movies and so much more. This is a place to meet older people who love gaming and avoid ignorance as displayed by many of you here. All of us here at 2old2play welcome everyone (over 25) and offer them a place to game with people similar to themselves. Doodi has a sense of humor, as displayed in the interview. Some of the comments were in fun and joking. Seems to me that some of you here could learn from that, because you are seriously lacking in that department. Lastly, a word of advice. Step out of your bubble and actually look at something and understand it before you speak what little is on your mind. You might actually find a home at 2old2play.
Actually, this could develop into an interesting fork off the /. effect -- everyone knows /. drives gobs of traffic to other websites, but does it help to attract to other communities as well? You certainly should have a bit more awareness now (I never heard of you guys until now), hope it translates into some growth for you guys.
Per ardua ad astra.