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MS Unveils Office 2007, Multiple Versions

rfunches writes "MSNBC reports that Microsoft's next version of Office, now known as Office 2007 (previously code-named Office 12), will continue targeting the corporate audience through multiple versions of Office 2007. Versions announced include 'Office Professional Plus 2007' and 'Office Enterprise 2007.' From the article: '[Microsoft Office Professional Plus 2007] will integrate capabilities of SharePoint, a collaboration program and Web portal that is designed to run over corporate networks and the Internet...and also incorporate Microsoft Office Communicator, a corporate instant messaging service.'"

298 comments

  1. Do I forsee... by ackthpt · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Hi, Joe, Here's the presentation on Wizzo Chocolate Corp. I'll be out of the office until the meeting with Wizzo, have a look at it and make any changes you see fit.

    To open attachedment click here [*click*]

    This project was created in Office Enterprise, some features may not be present in your version of Office Professional Plus - You will not be able to make any modifications to this project.
    So.. how many people are really likely to get the lightweight version, hmm?
    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    1. Re:Do I forsee... by Fazed · · Score: 1

      Everyone that is not working for a cash rich corporation probably.

    2. Re:Do I forsee... by PFI_Optix · · Score: 1

      That would indeed be hilarious.

      Now if they could just get OpenOffice to be an easier transition from MSO, it could pick up some market share.

      --
      120 characters for a sig? That's bloody useless.
    3. Re:Do I forsee... by b0r1s · · Score: 3, Insightful
      How many people in small offices really need:

      Access

      Visio

      Sharepoint

      Project

      InfoPath

      Publisher

      A lot of offices don't need most of the tools (think: your typical 2-10 person small business), and not having to pay for them is very helpful.

      --
      Mooniacs for iOS and Android
    4. Re:Do I forsee... by ackthpt · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Everyone that is not working for a cash rich corporation probably.

      I think it is Fear Of Not Having Every Feature which drives a lot of purchasing. Coming up with a tiered product line just ensures there will be more purchases of the top end product. They may as well name the Professional edition something degrading like 'Student' or 'Home'

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    5. Re:Do I forsee... by Martin+Foster · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A lot of small companies, organizations and people in general could do miracles in Access if they would quit treating MS Excel as one...

    6. Re:Do I forsee... by The-Bus · · Score: 1

      What irks me is that MS should have free viewers for all their applications. That means you, Publisher. Imagine if you needed to buy Adobe Reader to be able to see a PDF. Acrobat would be dead in the water now.

      --

      Small potatoes make the steak look bigger.

    7. Re:Do I forsee... by ackthpt · · Score: 1
      A lot of offices don't need most of the tools (think: your typical 2-10 person small business), and not having to pay for them is very helpful.

      Depends upon who's funding the Small Business, how profitable it is and Who it has to interact with. Small businesses, even home users may find themselves put upon to have the same tools or access to documents (etc.) sent to them.

      I don't have Office at home and was, twice, sent email attachments to my home I had to read and return (one of the documents) which required Word. I pointed out to the sender in each case that I was a poor individual and didn't spend $600 on software I wouldn't use. How about sending in some other format, like TEXT!

      Were I a business I probably couldn't get far with that sort of attitude. The Big Dog wags the tail and Microsoft knows it.

      This is why Open Document formats are a good thing.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    8. Re:Do I forsee... by dotpavan · · Score: 1
      ow many people in small offices really need

      these days, it isnt on the basis of "your" needs, but your needs are 'created' on the basis if what they deem fit for you.. in other words they bundle other s/w for which you pay thru your nose and then you feel like using it (coz you paid for it)

    9. Re:Do I forsee... by toddbu · · Score: 3, Insightful
      I think it is Fear Of Not Having Every Feature which drives a lot of purchasing

      But it could also work against you. If you start pushing documents out the door and your customers complain that they can't read then then you have to turn off the advanced features, at which time people start to ask "why am I paying for this?". Any time there's a lot of sharing going on then you need a lowest common denominator, or you need to take Acrobat's approach and provide read-only and read-write versions.

      --
      If you don't want crime to pay, let the government run it.
    10. Re:Do I forsee... by Uber+Banker · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A lot of offices don't need most of the tools (think: your typical 2-10 person small business), and not having to pay for them is very helpful.

      Then OpenOffice (or KOffice or whatever) should suffice in most cases, no need to pay anything! If VBA macros, or other niche tools only offered by existing installs of MS Office, are essential, then stick with Office 2k, 2003, or whatever else you have installed (being such a small business, preferential/time limited licences are unlikely, unless you were unlucky in your initial agreement).

    11. Re:Do I forsee... by toddbu · · Score: 1
      Small businesses, even home users may find themselves put upon to have the same tools or access to documents (etc.) sent to them.

      I would have agreed with the statement a few years back, but not any more. Unless you have just a few really large clients, you can usually push back on your customers and let them know that you can't open their document and to "please send this in a standarized format". Or you can offer buy the tools you need and bill them for the copies. For as price sensitive as many companies are for the services they purchase, I think most understand that the price that they pay is directly related to the costs their vendors incur.

      --
      If you don't want crime to pay, let the government run it.
    12. Re:Do I forsee... by bhirsch · · Score: 1

      In my experience, quite a few need at least half of those, especially Access and Publisher. Depending on the size of the small office, Sharepoint could also be quite useful.

    13. Re:Do I forsee... by DarkSarin · · Score: 4, Informative

      one what? A database?

      Surely you jest. Access is not the best solution out there--it is horrible to use, the interface just blows, and it doesn't do a lot of what it should do. For the record OOBase Sucks as well.

      Now that I have used MSSQL more, I am realizing the power of such a database. At work we are also getting ready to implement Crystal Reports, which makes the reporting components in Access look anemic and pathetic.

      I am not a big MS fan, but I do think that they make a fine SQL server.

      Folks, don't use Excel as a db, but access shouldn't be used either!

      --
      "We don't know what we are doing, but we are doing it very carefully,..." Wherry, R.J. Personnel Psychology (1995)
    14. Re:Do I forsee... by brarrr · · Score: 1

      ahhh, but the choice in naming it Office 2007 means that they can keep this version on the farm through 2008 and not be antiquated... what's window's office version at now? 2003 or something? and we're in 2006?

      --
      to email me: take my /. handle and append .net preceded by charter.
    15. Re:Do I forsee... by pjbgravely · · Score: 1

      No, You mean MS should make free viewers that work on more than just Microsoft Windows. I don't even see a Mac version.
      Either that or release the formats so that it doesn't have to be reverse engineered to work on other platforms.

      --
      Star Trek, there maybe hope.
    16. Re:Do I forsee... by HyperHyper · · Score: 1

      You are right - people don't need all these products. Heck, they don't need all the features in Word, Powerpoint, Outlook and Excel either.

      To be honest, I have Office 2003 but I still only use features that were in in Office 2000 (which is the high point of the product line IMHO).

      I mean the sticky notes and online collaboration things are a bit out there for a lot of companies. Good ideas but the majority of people don't work like that.

    17. Re:Do I forsee... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Publisher and Access only make sense for smaller offices (larger companies use more expensive tools that are not broken) and I've never met a Windows user who didn't use Visio if they knew it existed.

      I'm mostly concerned that we're dealing with a company that can't make two versions of the same backup software interoperate. For a more topical example consider how well Works handles Word documents...do you want to bet your company on MS not f***ing it up?

    18. Re:Do I forsee... by LurkerXXX · · Score: 1

      It doesn't matter if you are poor or not. The question is if you use Windows or not. If you don't use windows you might have an arguement (although some word documents import ok into free into Star/Open Office), but if you do use windows, Microsoft makes a word reader available for free. And if you are using Mac... well, you arn't. You said you are poor.

    19. Re:Do I forsee... by just_forget_it · · Score: 1

      Publisher is extremely useful for desktop publishing applications. A lot of people use Word instead and it's a pain in the a$$ compared to the former.

    20. Re:Do I forsee... by linuxmop · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Your unjustified speculation is cute and everything, but Microsoft has offered multiple versions of Office for as long as I can remember. Some packages include programs such as Access that not everyone needs. They have even offered Word + Works Suite for low-end PCs. In none of these cases have they prevented you from reading or writing data files created with the more expensive suite (given that your suite the program in question, e.g. Access).

      But hey, why have a reasonable discussion when you can just bash Microsoft for something it hasn't done?

    21. Re:Do I forsee... by MrPeavs · · Score: 1

      After reading Oracle Bid to Acquire MySQL, who do you think is going to make the first move, Microsoft bidding to acquire Oracle or Oracle bidding to acquire Microsoft?

    22. Re:Do I forsee... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      For a small office, having someone with the expertise necessary to install and administer a database (even an easy one such as MySQL) can be formiddable. Then you have to build a client on top of that. What are you going to use, then, the web? Again, another set of skills. These can be one person, and here on Slashdot a disproportionate number (when compared to just about any other sampling) of us could have just such an application working by the end of a day.

      However, many many offices could use a small one-person DB. While an Intern during my undergrad I put half a dozen of these together for various people. A half-day's work and they would have a nice litle application. They had forms and validation and the ability to run reports. It sure beat the hell out of the Excel spreadsheet they were using before.

      If you had multiple users, you could even split the backend off the DB and put it on the network.

      No, it doesn't scale well. And apart from VBA and some SQL, none of the skills are transferrable. But for a quick and dirty app in a small office, Access works quite well.

    23. Re:Do I forsee... by Rude+Turnip · · Score: 1

      I've been doing just fine with Office 97 since I got it in 1997. However, I did upgrade to Outlook 2003 last year because it offered lots of new useful features. I had to upgrade my Excel and Word installation to Office XP last week, but only to test out an add-on for a data feed service (Capital IQ) that we've been considering. Otherwise, if it wasn't for proprietary add-ons that require Office 2000 or later, I'd still be using the '97 version.

    24. Re:Do I forsee... by ackthpt · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Folks, don't use Excel as a db, but access shouldn't be used either!

      Ha!

      I love that bit about Excel as a db. I don't think I've worked a place where people haven't done just that. Our HR vendor's product is so weak that one of the people in HR has a separate 'database' in Excel and other records are in a binder!

      Often these are the results of people not using a $y$tem to it's fullest capacity, but more often than not it's because the $y$tem doesn't have the capacity or it's highly difficult to use (go to this screen, do this, go to that screen do another thing, go to the third screen, etc.)

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    25. Re:Do I forsee... by yo_tuco · · Score: 1

      " Sharepoint could also be quite useful."

      Currently, Sharepoint specifically relies on the OWC (MS Office Web Component) ActiveX controls. So that's fine in an office environment full of MS boxes with IE but it doesn't look like a good idea for the Internet with unknown connecting clients, IMHO. And I see MS wants to introduce it as a web tool. Is this going to be yet another method of introducing incompatabliity on the Internet?

    26. Re:Do I forsee... by ackthpt · · Score: 1
      For a small office, having someone with the expertise necessary to install and administer a database (even an easy one such as MySQL) can be formiddable.

      What the world needs is a small, simple database. Because you already know how people will rather use Excel, a document or simply a pile of papers to keep records in rather than fiddle with Access or MySQL.

      However, many many offices could use a small one-person DB. While an Intern during my undergrad I put half a dozen of these together for various people. A half-day's work and they would have a nice litle application. They had forms and validation and the ability to run reports. It sure beat the hell out of the Excel spreadsheet they were using before.

      We used to call it PC-FILE, from Brown Bag software, back in the days of PC-DOS/MS-DOS.

      No, it doesn't scale well. And apart from VBA and some SQL, none of the skills are transferrable. But for a quick and dirty app in a small office, Access works quite well.

      Except that it usually ends up very dirty because people don't follow rules they themselves have established. Try to explain the difference between Currency, Integers and Text fields to most clerical staff and you get a blank or pleading look in return.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    27. Re:Do I forsee... by Thundersnatch · · Score: 4, Informative

      All recent versions of Microsoft Access are able to actually use the desktop version of SQL server instead of the old JET-based engine.

      Look up "access data project" in the Access help file. You can make it the default DB type, and most features of the "real" SQL Server are available (except the GUI management tools).

    28. Re:Do I forsee... by ackthpt · · Score: 1
      You said you are poor.

      Actually, I'm not really poor (any more than most people in my income range) it's just that my money goes to higher priorities than filling my computer with applications which cost $$$ and I only use once a year.

      Being a developer means never having to do without, tools anyway. But when someone assumes everyone in the world has the same office suite they do and you have to interact with them, you feel a certain squeeze.

      I found that one party could as easily save as a PDF and email as an attachment, which saved the day.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    29. Re:Do I forsee... by Keith+Russell · · Score: 1
      So.. how many people are really likely to get the lightweight version, hmm?

      Well, let's see what the ratios were between Office 95 Standard and Professional 11 years ago.

      Microsoft has been producing tiered packages of Office for at least that long. And I don't recall Microsoft ever disabling features in individual applications based on those tiers. You either get the app, or you don't.

      --
      This sig intentionally left blank.
    30. Re:Do I forsee... by Firehed · · Score: 1

      Or just use free software. Of course we know that Microsoft is never going to have *any* support for OpenDocument formats until OOo and the like are totally taking over, but if you give customers a CD that has an OOo installer so they can open the OpenDoc readme files and whatnot, it could spread quickly enough. Why should people be paying for basic word processing features at all? Most people can get all of the functionality they need out of WordPad or dozens of OSS equivalents. I'm not intending this as MS-bashing, but how many recipe-tying-soccer-mom types need anything much more than bold, italic, and center?

      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
    31. Re:Do I forsee... by asparagus_pee · · Score: 1

      I hear clippy 2007 will be 3D titanium and ready to accept your credit card number (via Passport) to allow access to those features.

    32. Re:Do I forsee... by ManUMan · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't be suprised to see that lots of small businesses could use Publisher. Granted it isn't InDesign or Quark, but for the average hack, you can make decent looking stuff with Publisher. At least it has quite a few more options than Word.

      --
      If you are never moderated, do you really exist?
    33. Re:Do I forsee... by PitaBred · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Access makes a nice front-end to a database. Connect it's data stores to MSSQL or another SQL server, and it's actually quite good for just a quick DB interface maker.

    34. Re:Do I forsee... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Everytime I open my bosses file, Office tells me it doesn't understand hyphenations and I need to install an add-on "hyphenation pack". No, really...

    35. Re:Do I forsee... by kidgenius · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      He said MSSQL, not MySQL.

    36. Re:Do I forsee... by lymond01 · · Score: 1

      That's generally not the case with MS products. If you're on the correct version of office, the Powerpoint in Professional has all the features of Powerpoint in Enterprise. Office Professional may be lacking all the applications of Enterprise, but any that it overlaps with should have all the same features.

    37. Re:Do I forsee... by CastrTroy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, but I use OO.Org Draw, and that works fine for my uses. Word is a pain because it's a word processing app, not a desktop publishing app. OO.Org Draw isn't the best but it's around CorelDraw 5, which is good enough for me.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    38. Re:Do I forsee... by Inda · · Score: 2, Informative

      1st course they send you on is for Word.
      2nd course is Excel

      3rd...

      Well, most people from the older generation don't get to go on course #3. They struggle with the first two applications; learning a 3rd isn't going to happen any time soon. It would be a complete waste of resources.

      Even if they needed a proper database (with GUI) for their day to day work, the database is unlikely to be written by them anyway. That's a job for the *cough* experts.

      I know SQL, I know Access, I know a little more than average. I would still use Excel for a simple database though. I would use it because everyone I work with knows how to use Excel to some degree. If I need to show someone how to write a Query in order to plant some data in their Word document then I'll show them how in Excel. Excel's not alien to them. They can grasp one extra function or dialog quite quickly. They can make changes if I happen to die too.

      SQL server is kind of pointless when all you want to do is list people's names, ages and addresses.

      --
      This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
    39. Re:Do I forsee... by langelgjm · · Score: 1

      Well, I definitely do remember the time before the Word + Works package, where Works came with its own writing program, that couldn't open Word documents. Or was it that Word couldn't open Works documents? I don't remember which, but definitely one or the other.

      --
      "Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
    40. Re:Do I forsee... by ackthpt · · Score: 1
      SQL server is kind of pointless when all you want to do is list people's names, ages and addresses.

      But it does have it's points, particularly if you have people with certain certifications which will expire on some given date and need to produce a report of those who will require re-certification within the next 3 months so their supervisors can plan for such.

      Granted, you could keep these in a spreadsheet and simply sort the exp date column and eye-ball it, but then the person keeping the information has the busy-work of transfering this into letters/reports etc., where they should only need select the right report, enter a cut-off date and hit go and select a printer.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    41. Re:Do I forsee... by deadlinegrunt · · Score: 1

      "Any time there's a lot of sharing going on then you need a lowest common denominator..."

      While I agree with the logic is that not how Microsoft Office became so pervasive and constantly being upgraded to begin with, people lacking that common sense?

      I am unaware of any person that I know personally who uses over 50% of Microsoft Word's functionality as a very simple example. Excel, even less. Access? Lesser still.

      Usually it's that one person who upgraded, management or a spoiled MSCE admin*, that caused everyone else to need an upgrade.

      *NOTICE: with every blanket statement are exceptions - that did not read all MSCE's are spoiled nor incompetent.

      --
      BSD is designed. Linux is grown. C++ libs
    42. Re:Do I forsee... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      "You mean MS should make free viewers that work on more than just Microsoft Windows."

      Or better yet, let its customers' create documents that they can share with anyone of their choice. This concept of only letting paying members a private club exchange and edit files is rude, old-school and not in the best interest of the consumer, Microsoft's customers.

      1. Shareholders
      2. Microsoft
      3. Customer


      This list is what I see as Microsoft's priorities. But IMHO, the customer should be #1 and MS can decided who is #2 and #3.

    43. Re:Do I forsee... by EvilMonkeySlayer · · Score: 1

      Visio Standard and Visio Profesisonal...

    44. Re:Do I forsee... by LDoggg_ · · Score: 1

      For the record OOBase Sucks as well.

      How so?
      OO Base doesn't rely on the MS-only Jet engine, it can connet to anything that has an ODBC OR JDBC driver (as well as several other ways).
      It stores files in a simple zipped xml format.
      It can be used with gcj for free (beer & speech).
      Coding doesn't need to be done in VBA.

      Sure there's room for improvement(ram consumption, sql editor), but saying "Sucks" is kinda trollish don't you think?

      --

      "If they have both, tell them we use Linux. And if they have that, tell them the computers are down." -Dave Chapelle
    45. Re:Do I forsee... by jocknerd · · Score: 1

      Access is the worst thing to ever happen to I.T. help desks. I don't know how many times people created databases only to cry when something went wrong and then I.T. had to "support" it afterwards.

    46. Re:Do I forsee... by infochuck · · Score: 1

      OMG, I didn't even finish reading the comment before posting my last one. The guy blasts Access for having a 'sucky [blowy] interface and for being 'horrible to use', but he uses SQL Server?!? Dear God, man, a "fine SQL server"?!?!?.

      Right - SQL Server should always be used instead of Access. 'Cause everyone always will have an MS-SQL server around on which to host the data.

      I can't even go on.

    47. Re:Do I forsee... by MrPeavs · · Score: 1

      Wow, you just totally missed the joke.

      I only mention MySQL in light of the recent article on /., if you haven't read it, read it now. You should then be able to get the joke. ;)

    48. Re:Do I forsee... by xtracto · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I do not know why people bash Access like that. I have worked with access before as well as as with MS SQL Server and mySQL, I have used Postgre and Oracle only on non productive environments.

      From all of those database engines, Access was the only one in which I could transport the data in a flash drive without any hassle (just copy de MDB file). I did not needed to install any program to show the database to other people using snapshot viewer.

      Granted, it may not be good for databases that need to be accessed by more than one user each time but it is great to get orgainze a lot of data.

      BTW, one of the things I did with access was to migrate some "!#$!"!@ Excel list database (they got a bunch of records and where managing them with excel data lists). It was very easy to create some tables on excel and import the data from excel.

      Believe me, some buisness do not need anything more fancy than Access and it does the work, I think it is (as eeeeeevery other OS/app/language) just a tool and if used when it is needed it will do a great job.

      --
      Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
    49. Re:Do I forsee... by PPGMD · · Score: 1

      Not only that, but they offer free-readers for the three corner stones (Excel, Word, and Powerpoint) of the office suite. Microsoft is out to make money, but they know if people with the same program can't read and write a document they are going to lose customers. The only think that the higher prices suites have in them are more applications, not a more feature rich version of the application.

    50. Re:Do I forsee... by OMRebel · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What exactly is so horrible about Access? For setting up a simple relational DB in a small office, it works really well. There's nothing complicated about creating the database, nor anything complicated about interfacing it. There's plenty of functionality in it that serve small business very well. Not to mention, small businesses won't have to shell out extra cash for things such as Crystal Reports. Also, if it's how you're interfacing the DB that you particular don't like, you can write a few simple ASP pages (or whatever you'd like) to work with the database, and you can do pretty much anything you want. I will agree with you that OOBase has a LONG ways to go. But, it is a very young product, and hopefully it's next release will have more features to it.

    51. Re:Do I forsee... by Keith+Russell · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's right. Different Visio versions come with different stencil sets. Thanks.

      --
      This sig intentionally left blank.
    52. Re:Do I forsee... by theStorminMormon · · Score: 1

      Actually, I'm not really poor (any more than most people in my income range)

      Let's just ponder that statement for a minute.

      -stormin (couldn't resist)

      --
      The Southern Baptist Convention has creationism. On Slashdot, we have porn.
    53. Re:Do I forsee... by texaport · · Score: 1
      how many people are really likely to get the lightweight version

      It's the other way around for me. I'm not going to get a higher version, or higher-end version that doesn't at least semi-render under Office 2K or at least the distributable Office 2003 viewers.

      All the upcoming flavors of Office 2007 are purely marketing-driven; beyond just simple economics of wanting to sell the most copies at the highest prices possible.

      Marketing-driven as in somebody probably tried making the case for calling it "Office 2006" and it got beaten out by "Office 2008" before they compromised in calling it "Office 2007" ... and having nothing to do with producing a more efficient, powerful tool for workers who have reached the productivity limits of Office '97

    54. Re:Do I forsee... by thunderlizard · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There's a lot more collaboration between users of the same company than there is between a company and its customers. Interally, documents are sent around to be updated by multiple individuals (i.e. collaboration).

      Documents sent out to external customers usually aren't for collaboration - they're for information distribution, and for various (legal, logistical, technical) reasons, it generally isn't in a company's best interests to have its customers modify documents that are sent out.

      It seems the norm these days is to send out Word documents internally, and PDF externally...

      So I really don't see how the multiple tiers will interfere with communications between a company and an external customer...

    55. Re:Do I forsee... by PW2 · · Score: 1

      MS apps like publisher have a printing feature which may be used with products such as Ghostscript to generate PDFs for distribution.

    56. Re:Do I forsee... by koweja · · Score: 2, Funny

      Personally, I see more people trying to use Access to as a spreadsheet than trying to use Excel as a database.

    57. Re:Do I forsee... by just_another_sean · · Score: 4, Informative

      I am probably one of the biggest Linux Fanboys out there, I am not afraid to admit it. And I love to bash on MS.

      But when I get serious and talk "right tool for the right job" I would heartily disagree with your feelings about Access.

      I began my career in IT on Access (V. 1.1, Win 3). I've loved it ever since. I write all sorts of automation solutions for our company in Access. We use Great Plains and I've saved the company thousands of dollars by creating little, even somewhat crappy, automation routines in Access instead of buying some bloated module for GP that does way more then we need it to. It's quick, easy and gets the job done.

      Access and ODBC let me connect to any database I want. I have our web site scp a snapshot of our MySQL databases to a local test copy of the web site. And I use Access to connect to it and run quick & dirty reports and queries. You like SQL Server but Access is not a substitute for MSSQL, it's a compliment to it. You can connect to SQL using Access. I tend to start my projects first in Access so I can carry it around with me while I develop it. When I feel the project is ready for a first release it is very easy to upload all my tables, data and queries to SQL Server and simply link in the new tables. No need to change my forms, reports or code because the linked tables are named the same, they just reside in a more robust and scalable database now that they are deployed.

      Access's interface does take some getting used to and VBA is not a Real(TM) programming language but the beauty of VBA is, if you don't like the Access interface, change it using VBA. When I finish an automation solution that keeps some poor SOB in my company from typing the same data into our systems day in and day out the interface he/she uses is far different then that of standard Access.

      Bottom line is, it's all about using the right tool for the job and for the small company I work for Access is the right tool in some very key situations.

      P.S. I realize there are 100's, if not 1000's of other solutions that do similar things to what I describe above. My company owned Access and MSSQL so that and my familiarity with Access led to my choice.

      --
      Creationist Textbook Stickers Declared Unconstitutional by CowboyNeal
    58. Re:Do I forsee... by ackthpt · · Score: 1
      Let's just ponder that statement for a minute.

      As a f'rinstance: The poverty line for a family in Silicon Valley is about $65,000/yr. An amount which is a comforable income in rural Michigan, where I came from.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    59. Re:Do I forsee... by AnomaliesAndrew · · Score: 1

      In the context of a 2-10 person business with no on-hand programmer, Access is the way to go. If it grows beyond that level, then you'll want to use a server-centric database system, and probably a more grown up reporting system. But that takes a lot of overhead then (a developer/admin?)

      In my company, there are about 5,000 employees and we use a MSSQL exclusively for anything my department builds (after moving on from MySQL for various reasons), but we have to interface with Access, Pervasive.SQL, flat text, CSV, XML, and XLS for imports, and we also have to produce HTML, XML, PDF, XLS, and RTF outputs, and we use C++ and PHP for the logical glue.

      Some of our non-technical guys build systems in Access to hold them over until our development team can take on their needs. Access is evil in an enterprise world, but it's usually the best bet for somebody that has no idea what they're doing in a mom 'n pop shop, or for a temporary/prototype.

      Our professional opinion is that PHP (coupled with a SLAMMIN' framework library I developed mostly on my own time) and MSSQL are ideal for our business size and requirements, but somebody selling used clothing out of a corner store would never be able to afford such a thing (paying the programmer or having the free time to learn it themselves.)

      I personally hate Access, but that doesn't mean I don't see its occasional usefulness.

      -@

      --
      Move all sig!
    60. Re:Do I forsee... by Jessrond · · Score: 1

      I personally don't understand the appeal of more advanced Office programs. I have Office 2000, and it works just fine. All I really want to do is do my homework, occasionally use excel or Powerpoint. Getting the latest version will just clog up anyone's system... but I'm guessing with all the bundling with new computers it will sell quite well...

    61. Re:Do I forsee... by DarkSarin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, it's not.

      The GUI is terrible. It doesn't handle even basic things that access does (can't remember specifics, since I haven't tried to muck with it for about 3 months), and it is incapable of properly handling certain imports.

      Yes it does have the advantages you mention, but overall I am not impressed with it.

      Impress has a similar complaint--it handles almost everything that you throw at it from excel, and can easily import excel docs, but the one thing it NEEDS to have in order to do well is more templates. The template handling in Impress stinks. If it could handle templates like firefox handles extensions, I would be very happy. There needs to be a way to automatically download and install templates.

      --
      "We don't know what we are doing, but we are doing it very carefully,..." Wherry, R.J. Personnel Psychology (1995)
    62. Re:Do I forsee... by theStorminMormon · · Score: 1

      Well yeah, and 65K makes you rich in Moazmbique. Or a begger in DC/Nortern VA. I figured he was talking about people in the general vicinity or it becomes utterly meaningless to talk about it at all.

      -stormin

      --
      The Southern Baptist Convention has creationism. On Slashdot, we have porn.
    63. Re:Do I forsee... by davidsyes · · Score: 1

      I beg to differ. They'd be better off with Lotus Approach if they're making adhoc databases. They don't need to become PROGRAMMERS, just to get WORK DONE. It's tragic that IBM/Lotus will continue to let Approach languish in maintenance mode. Apparently, Abscess 12 will have tabs atop the page, something Approach had from inception, and abscess lacked until this version. Abscess cribbed a number of "user enhancements" not just from ms' "study" of user habits, but from other apps that obviously kept improving in the interface.

      Abscess is for PROGRAMMERS, not end-users who are just trying to WORK. In Approach, charting is much easier, (crosstabs suck, tho), and reporting is WYSIWYG, not some "band" crap that is counter intuitive. Making forms and dropping fields onto them, and importing/exporting data are a nap. What sucks in Approach, tho, is the limited (but very functional) table joins dialog. Aliasing table is great. But, the repeating panel (a Portal in FMP speak, and a detail table in Paradox speak...) is nice however limited in that there is no horizontal slider.

      As for people using spreadsheets as databases... many of them need to be sent to reeducation camp. Spreadsheets should NEVER be used for "data repositories". They're GREAT for forecasting, calculating, and showing subsets of data from databases, but I recently was on a 3-week project to sift thru some 5,000+ records from Active Directory logins for tracking a migration that was to end soon (apparently, theres no AD tool or not at his disposal to manage and monitor and report on/chart all the logins for the domain under his duties...). I convinced my temporary manager to let me use my copy of Lotus Approach to get the work done. I took the hexedcell tables, exported them as .txt, imported them and then made charts, reports, crosstabs, detail tables on forms, and kept him up to date. He was trying to do it in Abscess, but it was demanding he go back thru all his SQL notes. I didn't have to write ONE LINE of SQL to give him what he needed.

      Once in a while, when he'd come in and say, "I need to see how many of this, or blah...", I could whip it out in under 15 minutes. SOMEtimes, I'd jab him with, "How fast could you do this under Access?" He would smile sometimes, look tired other times, and concede.

      Cubicle users NEED Approach. IT gurus can keep abscess. It's too damned powerful, demands programming for many rather simple tasks, and seems to me to be designed more for IT industry job security rather and making end-users independent.

      Maybe, in closing, that is why IBM is uninterested in OpenSourcing Approach. Less to do with licensing or eviscerating the non-IBM code. With all the money IBM has, the could pay off the greedsters from whom they licensed the Lotus code when they bought Lotus. IBM/Lotus could contribute that code which they DO own to FLOSS, and co-share some with Sun/OpenOffice.org and make the two products merge to KILL off any ms encroachment upon Open Source/Linux-based office suites.

      As much as ms HATES OS, they'll probably let "slip out" a Linux-friendly Orifice suite not to be used, but to dissuade people from even bothering with Linux. So, IBM/Lotus/Sun/Oracle, please cast aside your goddamned gauntlets and axes and COOPERATE for a change. PLEASE? The best of AJAX, SmartSuite, OpenOffice, StarOffice, Trolltech, Mozilla, etc...Let's DO IT...

      --
      Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
    64. Re:Do I forsee... by amanuensis · · Score: 1

      Unfortunatly, you CAN NOT open Word files in Works. The program that they give on "low end".

      --
      I'm an intern... hense the name....
    65. Re:Do I forsee... by westlake · · Score: 1
      Publisher

      is likely to be the most requested app at your local church or library. it could all be done in Word but Publisher makes it simple.

    66. Re:Do I forsee... by mikerozh · · Score: 1
      From all of those database engines, Access was the only one in which I could transport the data in a flash drive without any hassle (just copy de MDB file). I did not needed to install any program to show the database to other people using snapshot viewer.

      You see, that's why you don't understand other people. It is because main feature of database server is not to be able to copy data to flash disk, is to be database server.

      And now, that you can get MSSQL desktop for free, there is absolutely no reason to use access as a backend.

    67. Re:Do I forsee... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      "unjustified speculation?" From a Microsoft KB article: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/905431 This article states that "Microsoft Office programs do not use the CD-ROM writing function that is available in some Microsoft Windows operating systems." If MS can't make a software that is compatible with the features of it's own operating system, you think this isn't beyond the realm of possibility?

      Unjustified indeed!

      P.S. This error was found because we were trying to burn a Word 2003 document, running on Windows XP. So outdated sw/os is not even an issue.

    68. Re:Do I forsee... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Everytime I open my bosses file, Office tells me it doesn't understand hyphenations and I need to install an add-on "hyphenation pack". No, really...

      It's on your Office disc under proofing tools. Just install it. No really...

    69. Re:Do I forsee... by jank1887 · · Score: 1

      Office 2000? Hell, I'm still using Office 97 on my Win98SE box. Which is a P200MMX, 96Mb Ram. 2000 is too bloated. first office suite to cause my system to bog down. uninstalled it after 3 hours and reinstalled 97. haven't had a need to switch since. I mean, what features do you need in a word processor or spreadsheet that haven't been there since 97?

    70. Re:Do I forsee... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I personally don't understand the appeal of more advanced Office programs. I have Office 2000, and it works just fine. All I really want to do is do my homework, occasionally use excel or Powerpoint.

      You might be surprised, but that's not the life of all people, who have to, you know, work and create value which can be sold.
      Now, that isn't a reason to use Office per se, but it just begged to be said.

      That off my chest, on topic.
      Our company uses several thousand Windows desktops and laptops in a so-called "information worker" industry -> heavy Office use. I am responsible for much of it's usability for our users, and we have developed several add-ins to improve it for our needs.
      In that capacity, I have used the O12 Beta 1, and it sends shivers up and down my spine.

      PowerPoint is full of useless crap that will to be removed, disabled, or shot, if you want to maintain some kind of visual dignity and prevent users from mutilating the corporate visual identity.

      The ribbon thingy takes twice as many clicks so far (I'll need to see what improvements can be made).

      It is tastelessly shiny, like an Apple designer gone mad. And if you click some shiny button, what comes up? The old ugly tabbed checkbox dialogues.
      Our PCs with integrated Intel cards from 2 years ago can't draw the effects smoothly (at least in the Beta).

      And I am not opposed to new interfaces or anything. Our internal stuff is pretty non-standard for a Windows environment, and it has worked out well.

    71. Re:Do I forsee... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, no, no, NO!!!

      Small businesses should not be encouraged to entrench themselves in badly arranged non relational databases just because someone told them they needed databases in business. If they are using an access table to do the job of a spreadsheet but without the formulae then they should be encouraged to use a real spreadsheet instead, it'll be far easier when they want to calculate things.

      Still, if a small business wants to play with creating databases they can do it without coughing up a huge sum by trying out OpenOffice.org 2.0's Base module.

    72. Re:Do I forsee... by Reapman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Explain that to someone that needs a database built in a day or two, and plan to use it on a standalone Laptop. Access is much better then a "real" database when it comes to Rapid Application Development. Sometimes all you want is something quick and dirty, and not to mention "pretty" I'd rather go that route then a full blown SQL database. Yes you may not follow all the database rules with an Access database, but sometimes it doesn't really matter for very small instances.

    73. Re:Do I forsee... by bhirsch · · Score: 1

      It's a nice and easy to use collaboration tool that ties in well with most Office applications.

    74. Re:Do I forsee... by ackthpt · · Score: 1
      I personally don't understand the appeal of more advanced Office programs. I have Office 2000, and it works just fine. All I really want to do is do my homework, occasionally use excel or Powerpoint. Getting the latest version will just clog up anyone's system... but I'm guessing with all the bundling with new computers it will sell quite well

      My point was, to maintain fullest compatibility you will need to join the other lemmings. Sure, there's maybe a new feature in all of the improvements which benefits you, but if you work like I do, Office 95 or 97 was good enough, after that it's all bloat. But what do you do when you attend a conference/seminar and want a copy of a Powerpoint presentation or Notes the presenter put together? Yup, you just got sunk.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    75. Re:Do I forsee... by Steve001 · · Score: 1

      Martin Foster wrote:

      A lot of small companies, organizations and people in general could do miracles in Access if they would quit treating MS Excel as one...

      The experience I've had with Access is that it usually takes a great deal of time and effort to create even a simple database. One of the things about Access is that it is better for databases where you know what you want ahead of time and for databases that you are going to keep around for a long time. Excel is better to use as a database where you don't know what you want ahead of time (it may be sorted several different ways, some data may be not be needed by all customers, and so on), and for short-term databases (created for a one-time use and not used again).

      With a ASCII list that you want to sort and get out quickly, it is faster amd easier to just dump it into Excel, turn it into a spreadsheet and save it, and then send it out. With Access you have to create the table, create a query, set up and adjust an input screen form, and possibly create a report.

      In my experience, often I've had to use a combination of Excel and Word to create reports using mail merge that I was not able to get Access to generate within itself. An example of this sorting a report by a field that doesn't appear in the report itself. There may be a way to do this in Access, but I wasn't able to find it (putting it in a query that the report was based off didn't work for me).

      I think that the complexity of Access is the reason many people use Excel as a database. Excel isn't as powerful as Access for database work, but often it is better for simple databases that you need to get out quickly, and for databases where you don't want to go through the effort needed to generate queries, forms, and reports.

      Thanks for reading.

    76. Re:Do I forsee... by shane_rimmer · · Score: 1

      Should you decide to follow the parent's advice, then may God have mercy on your soul, because the ADP will not. Trust me on this one.

    77. Re:Do I forsee... by mobilebuddha · · Score: 1

      i think MSSQL is a fine DB, however, the true power of MSSQL is not its DB, but it's DTS. If you don't know what it is.. google it.

      Every single Oracle and MS DBA that I know of install MSSQL at least for the flexibility and power of DTS.

      XLS is great as a output tool for the analysts, the new version promising having more than 65k rows is even better.

      While i personally haven't really used word aside from the VERY basic documentation functionalities, i've used XLS extensively and i must say, it's a great product, i'd even say it's the best out there.. bar none.

      btw, have fun w/ crystal. i've managed to convince the company that i work for to remove crystal completely, a release cycle of 6 months (maybe 10) and forcing its users to upgrade to a newer version to fix security is absurd.. even MS is better than that.

      we are deploying MSRS in phases right now, so far so good.

    78. Re:Do I forsee... by exKingZog · · Score: 1

      Ah, it's not THAT bad. Better than using Access/JET as a storage engine anyway...

      ...well, OK, it IS pretty f*cking bad (yeah, how do I tie an Access form to a Stored Procedure? Oh, I can't - I have to give all users read/write access to TABLES).

      We in IT have a saying at work, ridiculing the uses to which innocent Office apps are put: "Excel databases, Access spreadsheets, Word presentations and Publisher documents." I think that sums it up...

      --
      "If he were a plant, people would roll him up and smoke him."
    79. Re:Do I forsee... by TClevenger · · Score: 1

      Visio Standard and Visio Profesisonal... Didn't that differentiation come about before Microsoft bought them?

    80. Re:Do I forsee... by st1d · · Score: 1

      >>"a spoiled MSCE admin"
      .
      You mean like the kid I worked with a couple years back that decided he wasn't going to do his job until the company paid for his W2k certs? (Didn't seem to matter that it was maybe two weeks after W2k was released, and we hadn't even considered upgrading at that point.) Once he'd whined enough to acquire the classes, testing and certs he wanted, he then decided he was above working on "old junk". Then MS Office, etc., until finally even his uncle had enough of his antics and told him if he wanted to stay with the company, he could push a broom. (In considerably louder, less polite terms, and yes, you could almost hear people clapping.) Unfortunately, it took a major failure and realization that he had decided he was above doing "menial" backups before it came to that point.
      .
      At least we'd paid enough attention to do our own backups, though. Somehow, in all those classes he took, they never mentioned that your coworkers always have the option of giving you enough rope to hang yourself. :)

      --
      Microsoft has just released their much anticipated hands-free cordless mouse. Warning, it may hurt a little at first.
    81. Re:Do I forsee... by Ryan+Amos · · Score: 1

      MS has made different versions of Office for years. Office Home, Office Pro, Office Small Business Management Edition, etc. Most of these are just different bundles of the office programs (Home is Excel, Word and PowerPoint, Pro includes Access and Outlook, SBME includes MS Project and some sharepoint integration stuff.)

      IMO all this does is reduce code bloat. The SharePoint integration features might be useful to someone on a corporate LAN but totally useless to anyone else. Just be thankful they don't sell only the One True Office or something for $1000 when all you need are Word and PowerPoint. I don't think the individual applications really differ all that much other than extension bundles (advanced math addons for excel, etc.)

    82. Re:Do I forsee... by metallic · · Score: 1

      or a spoiled MSCE admin*

      Funny that you cant even get the name right. It's MCSE.

      --
      Karma: Positive. Mostly effected by cowbell.
    83. Re:Do I forsee... by glitch23 · · Score: 0

      Microsoft already provides a read-only version of Visio for viewing Visio drawings (Visio Viewer). It should do the same for its other applications.

      --
      this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom. -- Lincoln, Gettysburg Address
    84. Re:Do I forsee... by mobilebuddha · · Score: 1

      we use sharepoint on our webserver. it's great for the average users to upload specifications for change control. it shows who made changes too.

      now, i haven't dived into the thing at all. but, from the feedback that i've gotten, it's really nice for them. this is from programmers and business users alike.

    85. Re:Do I forsee... by asdfghjklqwertyuiop · · Score: 1

      For a small office, having someone with the expertise necessary to install and administer a database (even an easy one such as MySQL) can be formiddable.


      You think that's formidable? What's formidable is a few years down the road (when they've outgrown Access) trying to sort out the incomprehnsible, inconsistent mess that their access database has become and trying to accurately translate everything into a real database without loosing any meaning. Even if they just want something in the existing Access database modified in some way it can be a huge hassle to make the needed changes to some Access mess that was patched together by numerous people over the years, none of whom actually know anything about databases.

      Its far less formidable of a challenge just to pay someone that knows what they're doing to come up with a correct design right from the start than to sort out a giant mess later.

    86. Re:Do I forsee... by LDoggg_ · · Score: 1

      The GUI is terrible. It doesn't handle even basic things that access does (can't remember specifics, since I haven't tried to muck with it for about 3 months), and it is incapable of properly handling certain imports.

      That still doesn't tell me much. What about the GUI is terrible? Its consistent with the rest of the suite.
      People seem to be bashing this thing for the same reason they're bashing Access. Comparing a full fledged RDBMS like Postres or Oracle to OO Base is apples and oranges.
      OO Base is just a simple way to either make a front end to multi-user RDBMS or create a simple single user database.

      I definetly see a huge problem of people trying to use a single user database in an enterprise then having to pay developers when it doesn't scale to multiple users. However, if a non-programmer wanted to make a personal collection of contacts, or movies, or CDs or something it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to use.

      --

      "If they have both, tell them we use Linux. And if they have that, tell them the computers are down." -Dave Chapelle
    87. Re:Do I forsee... by ozmanjusri · · Score: 1

      Access is the worst thing to ever happen to I.T. help desks.

      Perhaps, but that's only because help desks are the worst thing to happen to most businesses. You see, if I have a business case to store data, the IT guys should either provide me with a database to store the information or enough advice to create a sensible one of my own.

      Instead, the most common response is to ban the use of Access, then mock the user for using Excel to store data...

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    88. Re:Do I forsee... by aug24 · · Score: 1

      You can do exactly the same with an Oracle DB. Just take the database files, move them to the machine you want them on and mount them in an instance. Really easy.

      Prolly the same for SQL Server too, but I don't know much about that.

      The only reason you didn't need to install any new program to use it on the target machine is because MS has built Access code into the install base of the OS. So the price of your convenience is wasted disk space on every MS box ever built, for which we all pay.

      J.

      --
      You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me.
    89. Re:Do I forsee... by Thundersnatch · · Score: 1
      yeah, how do I tie an Access form to a Stored Procedure? Oh, I can't - I have to give all users read/write access to TABLES

      Well, you could make all the fields on your form unbound, and then programmatically read their vallues and call your SPs using VBA. But you might as well be using Visual Stuio or another "real" development environment if you're going to such lengths.

      Seriously, the ADP approach has some uses. You get the quick-and-dirty development environment of Access, with the reliability of the SQL Server engine. You can also point ADPs to "real" SQL servers when the time comes for better concurrency or scalability. We have a few non-critical apps that were originally written in Access 95 and have been scaled up to use ADP and SQL server with minor modifications over the years. They still work, and fairly well.

    90. Re:Do I forsee... by exKingZog · · Score: 1

      Yeah, we're in more-or-less that position - a former contractor upsized a lot of old access databases into one SQL database. I've tried the approach you mention, but the amount of work involved in validating the inputs (not to mention avoiding SQL injection) means you might as well write an app or web-app instead.

      The REAL reason I hate the adp is that the original database contractor decided to store images directly into the database - as OLE objects. Which means that, not only does each machine have to have PaintShop Pro installed to see the images, each 30-40Kb image takes up 90 Mb and is unreadable to anything except Access. Extracting all of these images into proper JPEG files is pretty much my entire task for this spring...

      --
      "If he were a plant, people would roll him up and smoke him."
  2. Mmm... versions by keyne9 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Are we getting some hot 'MS OFfice EX plus alpha' action soon? Maybe 'Super MS Office XII: Third Strike Champion Hyper Edition'?

    1. Re:Mmm... versions by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 1

      MS Office 360 Live?

      --
      This guy's the limit!
    2. Re:Mmm... versions by PFI_Optix · · Score: 1

      No, that would be what happened if EA bought Microsoft.

      --
      120 characters for a sig? That's bloody useless.
    3. Re:Mmm... versions by GungaDan · · Score: 1

      Nah... Office Nukem Forever. ;-)

      --
      Eloi are stupid, throw morlocks at them!
    4. Re:Mmm... versions by AKAImBatman · · Score: 1

      Capcom, not EA.

      Street Fighter
      Street Fighter 2010: The Final Fight

      Street Fighter 2 - The World Warrior
      Street Fighter II - Champion Edition
      Street Fighter II Turbo - Hyper Fighting
      Street Fighter II - Special Champion Edition
      Super Street Fighter II - The New Challengers

      Street Fighter Alpha - Warriors' Dreams
      Street Fighter Zero
      Street Fighter Alpha 2
      Street Fighter Zero 2
      Street Fighter Alpha 3
      Street Fighter Zero 3
      Street Fighter Alpha 3 Double Upper
      Street Fighter Zero Double Upper
      Street Fighter Alpha 3 Max

      Street Fighter III: New Generation
      Street Fighter III: 2nd Impact - Giant Attack
      Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike - Fight for the Future

      Street Fighter EX
      Street Fighter EX 2
      Street Fighter EX 2 Plus
      Street Fighter EX 3

      X-Men vs. Street Fighter
      Marvel Super Heroes vs. Street Fighter
      Marvel vs. Capcom - Clash of Super Heroes
      Marvel vs. Capcom 2 - New Age of Heroes
      Capcom vs. SNK: Millennium Fight 2000
      Capcom vs. SNK 2: Mark of the Millennium 2001
      SNK vs. Capcom: Match of the Millennium
      SVC Chaos: SNK vs. Capcom

      You get all that? Somewhere in Japan there's got to be an entire company held by Capcom producing nothing more than more Street Fighter versions. :-P

    5. Re:Mmm... versions by Seanasy · · Score: 1, Troll

      No, you got it all wrong. It's about tailoring the product to meet the customer's needs, silly. Future releases will include;

      • MS Office Student Campus Edition
      • MS Office Soccer Mom Coordination Center
      • MS Office Pimp Pack
      • MS Office Nursery, Li'l Word Processors Trainer 2008

      This is true software innovation.

    6. Re:Mmm... versions by sharkey · · Score: 1

      Looks that way. I hear that in "Super MS Office XII: Third Strike Champion Hyper Edition" Greedo throws a chair first.

      --

      --
      "Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
    7. Re:Mmm... versions by networkBoy · · Score: 1

      ask and ye shall receive :-)
      http://networkboy.net/clippynuke.bmp
      -nB

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
  3. Sweeeet!!!! by Professor_UNIX · · Score: 4, Funny

    Remember folks, try to reduce the stress on the main distribution site by using mirrors when possible, or even better, let's get a BitTorrent tracker going to distribute the load.

    1. Re:Sweeeet!!!! by Linker3000 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Since Office 2000 Professional does all we want I see little need for changing - all the extra bloat is pointless for us. If I was going to make a jump it would be to a more trimmed, more polished copy of OpenOffice - maybe Q3/4 2006??

      --
      AT&ROFLMAO
    2. Re:Sweeeet!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the torrent idea might be a good idea, instead of slashdoting countless sites. Hope slashdotters seed a lot.

    3. Re:Sweeeet!!!! by mspohr · · Score: 1
      Actually, the last company I worked for used MS Office 97 as their standard and I found it just fine for everything I did (including lots of collaborative documents with people using lots of different versions of MS Office).

      Now that I'm an independent consultant I use OpenOffice.org and find it works great in the same highly collaborative environment. I use word, spreadsheet, and presentation applications and share them extensively.

      I'm sure the corporate IT drones are wetting their pants over all of the new Office 2007 features but nobody will actually use that stuff.

      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    4. Re:Sweeeet!!!! by homerules · · Score: 1

      We still use Office 97 where I work and won't be switching anytime soon.

    5. Re:Sweeeet!!!! by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      It does everything except open Office 2007 files. That's why I stick with OpenOffice. I have better chances of being able to read all the new formats. If you shell out for a copy of office, then it can't read any new formats when they come out.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    6. Re:Sweeeet!!!! by Moofie · · Score: 2, Informative

      The Achilles heel for OpenOffice is the documentation. MS Office's Help files are pretty superb, and there is no similarly comprehensive, easy to use documentation for OpenOffice.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    7. Re:Sweeeet!!!! by madnuke · · Score: 1

      You can buy office? I thought it was free I've never seen a real copy of office.

    8. Re:Sweeeet!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have to disagree. One of the big parts of office that is just absolutely brilliant is the ability to script the (e.g.) word engine so that you can automate generation of print matter, something that openoffice is missing.

      Personally, I can't wait for 2007.

  4. Interoperability by joelito_pr · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Anyone knows how well will it behave in that area, because the article dind't said anything about it

    1. Re:Interoperability by Chrismith · · Score: 1

      Given Office's previous capabilites, even with itself....I don't think you have much to worry about. ^_^

    2. Re:Interoperability by ronanbear · · Score: 1

      It's still a beta. It'll work fine with other versions.

      --
      the more they over-think the plumbing the easier it is to stop up the pipe
    3. Re:Interoperability by joelito_pr · · Score: 0

      Hopefully, they'll do better at that this time(Not that I'm trying to open binary office 97 *.doc files or anything)

      I personally use OpenOffice but I do exchange a lot of documents between MS Office and my OOo. OOo/MSO2k3 is good enough but it's uncertain to me if the new MSO openXML(or whatever it's name is) format will be usable in OOo

  5. Uh oh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny
    ..and also incorporate Microsoft Office Communicator, a corporate instant messaging service.

    That can never be a good thing...

    Employer 1: I seem to have lost the TSP report: Could you it to me ?
    Employer 2: ASL?!?!

    1. Re:Uh oh by jacksonj04 · · Score: 1

      So hang on...

      I now need to maintain not only my exchange address book, but also my communicator address book, which will doubtlessly use different lists, and not talk to MSN at all?

      What's wrong with MSN? The Sharing Folders in MSN 8 are quite slick and ideal for corporate users.

      --
      How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex?
    2. Re:Uh oh by Rude+Turnip · · Score: 1

      Why would you assume the communicator would use a different address book? All the programs would probably use the same GAL.

      At my place, we would never allow internal communications over MSN, Yahoo, Google or any external service...because it's external. But I could definitely see a use for an internal IM system. That's the same reason we have our own email system and don't rely upon third parties.

    3. Re:Uh oh by blowdart · · Score: 1

      All the programs would probably use the same GAL.
      They do. Live Messenger hooks into the Exchange / AD GAL and uses it as the basis for the address book. Whats more, it plugs into the Exchange diary, so when a meeting arrives your Messenger goes "in a meeting" automatically. It can also plug into some PBXs, so pick up the handset and lo "Phone" status is set.
      You can even hook it into public IM gateways, so your users, at your corporate domain can talk to hotmail, aol and YIM users (although I've not seen this in action)

    4. Re:Uh oh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Communicator uses your exchange address book.

    5. Re:Uh oh by jacksonj04 · · Score: 1

      Got any links to documentation for that? I'd like to give setting it up a shot in a test lab.

      --
      How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex?
    6. Re:Uh oh by unuselessj · · Score: 1

      By default, Office Communicator 2005 will allow you to search for contacts out of whatever address book Outlook 2003 is using. This is usually based off of the Exchange GAL. However, there is a very rigged way to force update user's Communicator contact lists. There is a lot of information about doing this in the development guides here. From my experience, the only reasonable way to manage user's contact lists is to create an initial list of contacts, then every week append a differential list of contacts. There is some way to add in MSN/AIM/Yahoo users, but you have to pay Microsoft a monthly fee, provide them with your domain, and all of that traffic basically goes through some third-party central server.

    7. Re:Uh oh by the.o.ster.66 · · Score: 1

      how could you post on slashdot *and* call it a TSP report?

  6. The OSS impact by Thunderstruck · · Score: 0

    Clearly, Microsoft continues to feel the impact of open source software. This time it has begun to alter the way they name their products. Back in the day, Microsoft would name a piece of software based on what it did, and in a way that let any idiot understand. By contrast, the OSS community knew that names were better if they bore no linguistic connection to the actual function of the product. (grep, cat, and vi, I'm talking to you.)

    Now, however, Microsoft has jumped on the obtuse name bandwagon. What the heck is the difference between "Office Plus" and "Enterprise Edition" vis-a-vis "Office"?

    --
    Trying to use sarcasm in text-based forums does not work.
    1. Re:The OSS impact by Lumpy · · Score: 1, Funny

      What the heck is the difference between "Office Plus" and "Enterprise Edition" vis-a-vis "Office"?

      if it's anything like their other products....

      The difference is about 50% to 300% more expensive with 5% more functionality that only 2% will use.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    2. Re:The OSS impact by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      grep - g/re/p command in vi meaning "global regular expression and print"
      vi - comes from 'VIsual' in ex
      cat - conCATenate

    3. Re:The OSS impact by alchamy · · Score: 2, Informative

      The thing is that unix names generally tell you what the function is;

      grep = general regular expresssion parser
      cat = concatenate
      vi = (the odd one our here) The name comes from the shortest unambiguous abbreviation for the command visual in ex

      Office Plus & Office Enterprise really do not offer any clue to the differences by reading the name. Microsoft is missing the naming plot, wtf is "Windows Defender" I prefer "Microsoft Anti-Spyware" atleast now I know what it is defending against.

    4. Re:The OSS impact by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (grep, cat, and vi, I'm talking to you.)

      grep = global regular expression print/parser, altho the name comes from ed's g/re/p

      The name vi comes from the shortest unambiguous abbreviation for the command visual in ex. The command in question switches the line editor ex to visual mode.

      and as for cat, it stands for concatenate. which is what cat does. read up on http://www.ruhr.de/home/smallo/award.html if you think cat is for printing :)

    5. Re:The OSS impact by Linker3000 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "By contrast, the OSS community knew that names were better if they bore no linguistic connection to the actual function of the product. (grep, cat, and vi, I'm talking to you.)"

      [I can't work out if you are being ironic - just in case you are not...I've put my marketing consultant hat on...]

      Nah - they were handy for quick typing on a TTY - no more.

      With most potential desktop Linux users likely to use a GUI, the name of the underlying executable is irrelevant and we have now moved on to a 'marketing' track where the name bears some relevance to the acceptability of the program - trust me, calling a graphics application 'The GIMP' does not make managers warm to it. Similarly, mentioning at meetings that we are using the 'Joomla' CMS always makes me slighly uneasy as I look round the room.

      If OpenOffice was called ONMO (OpenOffice is Not Microsoft Office), for example, I bet its adoption would be slower - trust me, it *IS* an issue; why do you think companies spend thousands just getting the name, shape and theme of a new product 'just right'.

      Trouble is that too many developers live in the world of Monty Python, Tolkein and Terry Pratchett and think it l33t to name their poducts with a nod to their favourite characters etc. - as a simple exercise, ask a Manager whether they think it would be easer to recommend to the Board of Directors that the organization should migrate to the 'BilboScript' Word Processor or 'MavenWord'. If you think it all comes down to the features comparison matrix you are sadly deluded - names matter, even if it's more of a knee-jerk reaction.

      Oh, and PLEASE will someone rename Ogg Vorbis!!

      --
      AT&ROFLMAO
    6. Re:The OSS impact by garcia · · Score: 0, Troll

      What the heck is the difference between "Office Plus" and "Enterprise Edition" vis-a-vis "Office"?

      The price.

    7. Re:The OSS impact by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > grep = general regular expresssion parser

      Dumb ass.

    8. Re:The OSS impact by WeAreAllDoomed · · Score: 0
      By contrast, the OSS community knew that names were better if they bore no linguistic connection to the actual function of the product. (grep, cat, and vi, I'm talking to you.)

      would you rather type grep, cat, and vi dozens of times a day, or Microsoft\ Office\ Team\ Server\ with\ Customer\ Relationship\ Management\ Extensions.exe ?

      --
      free software, open standards, open file formats, no software patents.
    9. Re:The OSS impact by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok then, what do "Excel", "PowerPoint", "Access", "Visio", and "Outlook" do? Also what is .NET? I never understood that.

      If you knew what grep, cat and vi did you'll know what they stand for.

    10. Re:The OSS impact by theurge14 · · Score: 1

      Hmm, programs named after what they do...

      Microsoft Word Processor.
      Microsoft Spreadsheet.
      Microsoft Small Office Database.
      Microsoft Email Reader.
      Microsoft Presentation.

      That last one is funny to me because "PowerPoint" has almost become vernacular for giving a presentation at the office. "Hey Bob, how did your PowerPoint presentation go yesterday?" "Fine Steve, except someone kept coughing and laughing during my PowerPoint."

  7. Office communicator by iMaple · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The office communicator is one of the few products that I really like. I used a beta for ~3 months and (provided you have the infrastructure in place) it kicks ass. It integrates email, IM and phone in an amazing way (by email I mean Outlook , no you cant use pine :( ). Eg. If the outlook calendar shows that I have a meeting in my office , it will set the IM status to ('Busy, in a meeting') and switch off the phone ringer (and email me any voice messages). Then when I see a missed call, I just click on that person and select call, which switches on the phone speaker and dials out the number. Impressive , eh ?

    1. Re:Office communicator by c0dedude · · Score: 1

      I can see it now : "youre downsized lol"

      --
      Since when has this country used intellectual elite as a pejorative term?
    2. Re:Office communicator by Rudisaurus · · Score: 2, Insightful
      If the outlook calendar shows that I have a meeting in my office , it will set the IM status to ('Busy, in a meeting') and switch off the phone ringer (and email me any voice messages). Then when I see a missed call, I just click on that person and select call, which switches on the phone speaker and dials out the number. Impressive , eh ?
      Yep, right up to the time where I skip a meeting because I'm waiting for an important phone call -- and my phone just never rings because I forgot to cancel the appointment in Outlook ...
      --
      licet differant, aequabitur
    3. Re:Office communicator by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Impressive? Yes. Worth the cost? Seldom.

      As you said, you have to set up and maintain the infrastructure, and any kind of integration with the phone switch is expensive.

      Dell had a similar system in-house over a decade ago, but apparently they've let it fade away due to the cost of maintaining it.

    4. Re:Office communicator by iMaple · · Score: 1

      Yep, right up to the time where I skip a meeting because I'm waiting for an important phone call -- and my phone just never rings because I forgot to cancel the appointment in Outlook

      Well, if you dont like it switch off the feature, or let it set your phone to a visual ring or low ring. Or forward the call to the IM client. My point was, its much more than an IM client, it does a lot of things seamlessly (and almost always ,exactly like I would want it to)

    5. Re:Office communicator by aaronl · · Score: 1

      Sounds like a 100% ripoff of Cisco's IP Phone technology. The Cisco stuff does all that with the phone set, soft-phone, emailed voicemails, and integration with Outlook.

      How did you think that all worked... by MS deciding to start selling phones? That's been around for years now.

    6. Re:Office communicator by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shouldn't it automatically translate email into txt-spk for mobile devices?

      U R fired. Clok out. Bring me ur keys & lappy & B gon B4 noon. Downsizing sux huh? Sry lol.

    7. Re:Office communicator by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Impressive , eh ?

      Not really, I can do all those things with an hour or so of work and the stuff I have lying around on my desk. My day job involves building customised versions of this sort of thing, integrating email and groupware and whatever hardware people can dream up a use for. Right now I'm tying a burglar alarm into an email/telephone system, for example (and yes, it's been done before, it just hasn't been done for the alarm and email and telephone system that they're using at this particular place). It might have been cool ten years ago, but these days it's just expected features.

      Quite why Office includes one of these is beyond me. The whole point of these systems, and the hard part, is the 'last mile' - the integration with the hardware that you own.

  8. MS Carnage by AnalystX · · Score: 5, Funny
    "designed to run over corporate networks and the Internet"
    Why not? Microsoft tries to run over everything else. I just hope there isn't too much damage.
  9. Offices are getting sick of this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    My office is all but fed-up with the MS Word updates-every-few-years. We wont pay for it again, even the pres of the co said to forget about it. We need the cash in the bank to make it through the next few years, which are going to be stupidly tough.

    As such, all files are to be in Word 2000 .doc format, .pdf, .txt, or html. Thats it. When we get unworking things from clients we reply that we were unable to process their doc, the reason why, and instructions on how to do it. Occasionally we get bitchy clients, but those people are bitchy no matter what we do. It doesnt change anything.

    Maybe this will be a good segue into Open Office, which is becoming more viable every day.

    1. Re:Offices are getting sick of this by DaHat · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Lucky for your office, one of Office 12's most under sold benefits (new XML based documents) will not just be limited to Office 12, in addition they will be releasing patches for XP and 2003 for sure (I am not sure about 2k currently) so that far more people can enjoy the benefits.

    2. Re:Offices are getting sick of this by truthsearch · · Score: 1

      so that far more people can enjoy the benefits.

      No, it's so that far more people upgrade.

    3. Re:Offices are getting sick of this by towsonu2003 · · Score: 2, Funny
      We need the cash in the bank to make it through the next few years, which are going to be stupidly tough.
      Hmmmm, I wonder why :-k
      all files are to be in Word 2000 .doc format, .pdf, .txt, or html. Thats it. When we get unworking things from clients we reply that we were unable to process their doc, the reason why, and instructions on how to do it. Occasionally we get bitchy clients, but those people are bitchy no matter what we do.
      Oh yes, I see the reason now... \\:D/
    4. Re:Offices are getting sick of this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What do you mean? They have the system that works now. You think it will quit working in the next five years?

      It is just not funny!

  10. Scaled cost as well as features by Macblaster · · Score: 4, Funny

    See, while Microsoft Office Home and Student 2007 will only cost arm, Microsoft Office Professional Plus 2007 will cost arm + leg.

    Oh, and the premium edition, Microsoft Office Enterprise 2007...

    you don't want to know.

    1. Re:Scaled cost as well as features by PFI_Optix · · Score: 1, Funny
      you don't want to know.

      Yes I do.

      --
      120 characters for a sig? That's bloody useless.
    2. Re:Scaled cost as well as features by BVD · · Score: 1

      Left nut.

    3. Re:Scaled cost as well as features by HogGeek · · Score: 1

      Oh, as long as it's the left one, I'm OK with that...

    4. Re:Scaled cost as well as features by DavidD_CA · · Score: 1

      The current version of Student/Teacher Edition is just around $130. And there's no "upgrade" required. And, you can legally install it on up to three computers in the home.

      It's the *full* version of Word, Excel, and PowerPoint.

      I'm sure the 2007 version will be similarly positioned. Not quite the "arm" that you are joking about.

      --
      -David
    5. Re:Scaled cost as well as features by westlake · · Score: 1
      Microsoft Office Home and Student 2007

      Retail list $150 US
      Word, Excel, PowerPoint and OneNote
      Installs on three PCs.
      Retail boxed. Doesn't even pretend to be an "academic" distribution.

      Let's just forget the nonsense about arm and a leg pricing, shall we? Because Office Home at $50 a seat will be #1 in sales at Amazon.

    6. Re:Scaled cost as well as features by seanvaandering · · Score: 1

      It'll cost you the other leg.... no no, the OTHER leg.

  11. Re:OSS office... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Two words: vi, LaTeX

  12. Clippy is back in Microsoft Office Communicator by sikandril · · Score: 5, Funny

    I see you have received some bad corporate news..

    Would you like to throw a piece of furniture?

    1. Chair
    2. Sofa
    3. 18th Century French Armoir

    1. Re:Clippy is back in Microsoft Office Communicator by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unintentionally funny, but it's also likely MS spellcheck would miss the misspelling of armoire. :D

  13. "Bodybags 2" by sootman · · Score: 1

    Office 2007 (previously code-named Office 12)...

    Wow, the guys in MS's code-naming division must've been putting in nights and weekends to come up with that.

    From True Romance, re: the sequel to "Coming Home in a Bodybag":
    Clarence: What's this one called anyway?
    Producer: We don't have a title yet. What does Joe like?
    PA: Uh, Bodybags II.
    Producer: Ooh, that's imaginative. I've got more taste in my penis.

    --
    Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
    1. Re:"Bodybags 2" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you on drugs?

  14. Re:OSS office... by Lumpy · · Score: 3, Informative

    Ahem...

    Google Search for Open Source word Processor

    Abiword for the lazy that does not want to look further.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  15. What is this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    What is this? What is going on here? I wish to make a complaint. Who is in charge here?

  16. FrontPage is dead, long live FrontPage! by swid27 · · Score: 3, Informative

    The article fails to mention that FrontPage will become SharePoint Designer in Office 2007.

  17. MS Office to StarWars releases by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    if the previous Office was the Clippy equivalent of JarJarBinky
    this Clippy is Revenge of the Sithy.

  18. Re:OSS office... by pubjames · · Score: 1

    AbiWord is the closest thing to what I'd like to see. I wish it would get more promotion.

  19. Corporate IM service by BadanTheUgly · · Score: 0

    "...and also incorporate Microsoft Office Communicator, a corporate instant messaging service."
    What would this be, and why?
    Let's see, office programs for use in a corporate environment and big and heavy and full of features, for home use they may have fewer features.
    Similarly, music editing software for use in a professional environment will be much more feature rich than the stuff you might use at home.
    Surely the power users for IM applications are high school kids? Don't they all use AIM and MS Messenger?
    I can see why you would want a seperate, corporate IM network, to stop your drones using IM services outwith your network and
    a. sending your data to users outwith your network,
    b. wasting time chatting to your friends. The solution to this is a firewall, no?
    Also, if it's IM specifically designed for use in a corporate environment, does this mean that every single message with have "...this message is intended for the recipient only, if you receive this message in error..." stamped on it? That will really make for a snappy conversation.
    Businesses being what they are, they will also archive every single message, which is worrying because folk will tend to be even less formal and less careful than they are when using email.

    1. Re:Corporate IM service by Scyber · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Corporate IM is actually becoming pretty popular. It replaces the need to quickly call or run over to someone to ask a quick question that email is overkill for (or that you need an immediate answer for). Lotus Notes has had an IM client (SameTime) in it for a little while now.

    2. Re:Corporate IM service by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but they charge quite a lot for an instant messaging program. I don't know where businesses think that an instant messaging system is worth that much. If you want internal instant messaging, just use Jabber.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    3. Re:Corporate IM service by shorgs · · Score: 1

      I give up.

      replaces the need to quickly call or run over to someone to ask a quick question that email is overkill for

      I must be robbing the company of precious seconds all the time. I mean the phone, email, and actually seeing people is just so archaic.

      All joking aside...I'm sure it can come in handy in some situations. It just feels like we're trying to squeeze a few more drops of blood out of the productivity stone. It makes me feel less human to work in a company that will no doubt take full advantage of this.

      Also, good thing for that IM or you might not have found the time to make that post. ;p

    4. Re:Corporate IM service by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      I work in a large company that has many locations throughout the world. We use Sametime like crazy. It has screensharing functionality too. That's used a lot on conference calls cause anyone can share their screen and you can give control to other people to your own.

  20. Re:OSS office... by CastrTroy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Yes, for some reason, office suites feel that they have to inculde everything. Most people don't need 90% of the features in there, or could get by without them if they weren't there. Also, putting tools where they shouldn't be makes things harder. You can draw a picture in Word, Powerpoint, Excel and every other app. Why not have 1 app for drawing, and then the ability to place that drawing in each of the other apps.

    --

    Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
  21. communicator? by rbochan · · Score: 1

    "Microsoft Office Communicator"?

    Such innovation!

    What's next, "MicrosoftOffice.org"? "Microsoftazureus"? "MicrosoftPhotoshop"?

    --
    ...Rob
    The American Dream isn't an SUV and a house in the suburbs; it's Don't Tread On Me.
    1. Re:communicator? by jackbird · · Score: 1
      What's next ... "MicrosoftPhotoshop"?

      Why, now that you mention it, yes.

  22. Re:OSS office... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    To set a page to landscape in OpenOffice, you have to open Styles and Formatting, create a new style, name it landscape, set its format to landscape, and then select the landscape format for your page/document. That's something like a dozen clicks, plus typing. Of course, it's a one-time thing, but I have to explain it for EVERY user until we get a new image prepared and deployed this summer.

    In Microsoft Office, you go to Page Properties, select Landscape, and click OK. Four clicks, and it's in a simple place you'd expect to find it. THAT is why I don't like OpenOffice, who cares about bloat :p

  23. multiple... by tomstdenis · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    versions? no ... reasons not to use office!

    "oh you mean this file won't open on your copy of office 2007? arrg!"

    Or something like that ... whatever fucking use Openoffice already. Microsoft is just satan incarnate.

    Tom

    --
    Someday, I'll have a real sig.
  24. I'm waiting for by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Office 2007 Ultra TURBO Championship Dragon Edition X

  25. Re:OSS office... by jlarocco · · Score: 0

    AbiWord.

  26. Previously known as Office 12.... by ShyGuy91284 · · Score: 1

    And probably still known as office12 as far as the directories and developers may be concerned (I recall the last office version I had being in an office10 folder, which it was not known as from the front (Office XP I think)).

    --
    In undeveloped countries, the consumer controls the market. In capitalist America, the market controls you.
  27. If I may correct that a bit. by khasim · · Score: 4, Insightful
    It integrates email, IM and phone in an amazing way (by email I mean Outlook , no you cant use pine :( ).
    What you meant to say was ...

    "It integrates MS Exchange/Outlook, MS Messenger and MS Phone in an amazing way."

    And no, I don't want voice mail in my email. People store too much crap in it already.
    1. Re:If I may correct that a bit. by iMaple · · Score: 1

      "It integrates MS Exchange/Outlook, MS Messenger and MS Phone in an amazing way."
      Thats sadly true, I dont think it interoperates with any other products. (maybe it does, with Lotus notes or smthng else, but I dont know)

      And no, I don't want voice mail in my email. People store too much crap in it already.
      Neither do I, so I set it to just email me just the missed call reminders, which turned out to be quite useful.

    2. Re:If I may correct that a bit. by Jilly+Jelly+Roll · · Score: 1

      I have the voicemail-sent-as-an-email-with-wav-file at my office. I actually like this feature, because it allows me to check my voicemail remotely (via my email, which I am much more likely to check remotely than voicemail messages) and listen to them on my computer at home without having to dial into the voicemail system.

    3. Re:If I may correct that a bit. by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      I have voicemail-as-email too, asterisk does it by default, and uses standard SMTP so it works with whatever mail system you might be using.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
  28. related links by dotpavan · · Score: 1
    Office 12 gets you headaches? downfall? some of the related links suggested by MSN on the page this story was there (seriously):

    (*)High-tech bathroom relaxation

    (*)Bank (safely) on the Web

    (*)Tech gear you need for hitting the slopes

    1. Re:related links by psychogentoo · · Score: 1

      Totally offtopic and mod me down if you must:

      I take offense to the "hitting the slopes" comment, sir! I mean seriously, tech gear for the hitting?!?!?

    2. Re:related links by dotpavan · · Score: 1

      found it on the msn link (where the story is from)

    3. Re:related links by psychogentoo · · Score: 1

      Maybe I should have put a "smiley" on my initial post. Sorry if anyone took my post seriously.

    4. Re:related links by dotpavan · · Score: 1

      sorry.. having a serious day here.. shall tune my sense-of-humor-detector :)

  29. 2007? We just moved off 97 ... by neonprimetime · · Score: 1

    It's kinda funny ... my bank I work at just in the last few months of 2005 finally upgraded from Microsoft Office 97
    And now MS unveils 2007 :-) ... whew ... it we had waited a few months longer, we coulda claimed we were literally 10 years behind!!!

  30. It's obvious really by TheConfusedOne · · Score: 1

    The Plus! edition is the one that gives you screen savers and more desktop themes.

    The Enterprise edition is to boldly go where no Office program has gone before.

    --
    --- I wish I could hear the soundtrack to my life. That way I'd know when to duck.
  31. price check on aisle 3... by mayhemt · · Score: 1
    Microsoft Office 2003 Pro Full Edition $374.99 $299.99 after rebate ...

    This is the price at local Frys store (dallas area)....

    for the new Office I can bet it would hit 500$ or more..

    i for one welcome the stoopid overlords who would go for this damned product...

    turn to open source...yo'all

    1. Re:price check on aisle 3... by cashman73 · · Score: 1

      The real question is how many slashdotters would actually pay $299.99 for Microsoft Office 2003 Pro Full Edition (or **any** version, for that matter)?

  32. Express Editions? by edmicman · · Score: 1, Interesting

    What is the version for home users / smaller offices that don't want/need all the extra bells and whistles? I'd say 95% of any work is done in either Word or Excel. Why not have a "Basic" version of office that just includes those, maybe throw in Outlook, too?

    I'm aware of abiword (that covers Word, what about Excel?) and OpenOffice (which I do like, although it has performance issues, some interface issues, etc. and in my prior experience still wasn't fully compatible with extensively formatted Word docs, but that's a topic for another time), but while you can substitute cheap or OSS products for Office, at this point in time nothing else IS Office. I would think a minimalist version of Office (even cut out those features that hardly anyone uses?) that was targeted cheaply (like the cost of a game) to students and home users would go over well.

    1. Re:Express Editions? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The best you're gonna get out of Microsoft is the Office Student/Teacher Edition, which costs about $125. Hint: You don't have to be a student or teacher to buy a copy.

    2. Re:Express Editions? by truthsearch · · Score: 1

      Why not have a "Basic" version of office that just includes those, maybe throw in Outlook, too? ... I would think a minimalist version of Office... that was targeted cheaply (like the cost of a game) to students and home users would go over well.

      $$$$$

      Why put out a very cheap version when everyone's already paying for the bigger package? Supply and demand.

    3. Re:Express Editions? by eznet · · Score: 1

      The basic edition is called "Office 2000". Does everything you need, and a whole lot more.

    4. Re:Express Editions? by 16K+Ram+Pack · · Score: 1

      Try OOo 2.0. The compatibility and speed are a big improvement.

    5. Re:Express Editions? by The+Warlock · · Score: 1

      I'm aware of abiword (that covers Word, what about Excel?)

      Gnumeric.

      Note that it requires GTK+ to be installed, but if you already have the GIMP or Gaim or whatever, you should already have that.

      --
      I've upped my standards, so up yours.
    6. Re:Express Editions? by westlake · · Score: 1
      What is the version for home users / smaller offices that don't want/need all the extra bells and whistles? I'd say 95% of any work is done in either Word or Excel. Why not have a "Basic" version of office that just includes those, maybe throw in Outlook, too?

      Microsoft has sold home office bundles (not academic distributions) at least since Word 97.

      The mix varies but the pricing always hovers around $125. Office Home 2007 will install on three PCs. Office at $50 a seat is not good news for OpenOffice.org.

    7. Re:Express Editions? by elb0mb · · Score: 1

      Hmm... A basic version of Office, with Word, Excel, and maybe outlook thrown in???

      Dunno - maybe they could call it Office Basic?

      http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php/mas terid=2268217/

      Ya.

  33. Office monopoly is a thing of past by octopus72 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Although I used OOO for writing my diploma thesis (later switched to latex), MS Office is still installed on my PC. Of course reason is I didn't really pay for it. There is even incentive in my country for students to be able to replace illegal copies of MS software at NO COST(!) for a license. Obviously, MS fears that enforcement will push people not wanting to pay onto free alternatives.
    Reason I still have MS office is comatibility, mostily with powerpoint files. I doenload lot's of these from local newsgroup, and OpenOffice, apart from long startup time, doesn't render some correctly. One could probably also use free Excel reader from MS, I'm just not sure how well latest file versions are supported.

    For creating slides, 2.0 version is very usable. It has everything I need (even good ppt export support), so I don't really need MS Office for production.

  34. 2007 Multiple Versions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Geez, that's a lot of versions.

  35. Re:OSS office... by m50d · · Score: 1

    Koffice does it just as simply (format->page layout) and performs far better than either of them, IME.

    --
    I am trolling
  36. Re:OSS office... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To set a page in OpenOffice.org

    Click Format -> Page -> Page tab -> Landscape -> OK

    Fucking TROLL

  37. Re:OSS office... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What was wrong with "Format, Page, Orientation, Landscape"?

  38. Re:OSS office... by moonbender · · Score: 1

    Bullshit. Menu Format - Page - Orientation. Three clicks, including the one on the okay button, for what it's worth. Maybe you were using Open Office 1.x?

    --
    Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
  39. What about Office 2007 Grab Bag Edition? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny
    With Microsoft Grab Bag Edition you get one exciting office application, you just don't know which one. By distributing the ``Bag'' edition of office, indecisive HR departments can assign jobs based on dumb luck:

    Employee A -- "Cool! I got Excel, I'm gonna be a budget analyst!"

    Employee B -- "I got Word! Awesome! I'm gonna write memos and be a manager."

    Employee C -- "Shit, I got PowerPoint. But I don't want to be a consultant. They suck."

    Employee D -- "You think you got it bad? I got Access, I'm never gonna get anything done."

    1. Re:What about Office 2007 Grab Bag Edition? by ShavenYak · · Score: 1

      You forgot one!

      Employee E -- "Well, I got Outlook... I guess I can email my resume to another company!"

      --

      Hey kids, there's only 5 days left 'til Yak Shaving Day!
    2. Re:What about Office 2007 Grab Bag Edition? by My+Juicy+Vagina · · Score: 1

      (Score:2, Informative)

      it's good to see the /. moderation system working like a well oiled machine.

    3. Re:What about Office 2007 Grab Bag Edition? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't you like my work?

  40. OSS Sharepoint Client? by Bazman · · Score: 1

    Oh heck, they're pushing this piece of crack. Sure it'll hopefully stop the secretaries emailing 10M Word documents, but they'll be emailing "The Agenda is on the Sharepoint" messages. Great, I can read it with OpenOffice but now I CANT GET IT!!

    Anyone know more about Sharepoint and knows of a free client?

    B

    1. Re:OSS Sharepoint Client? by lmatheson · · Score: 1

      The "free client" for Sharepoint is your web browser. That is, if your browser is IE. Otherwise, there is some chance you'll be able to access Sharepoint documents, but you may have browser compatibility problems.

    2. Re:OSS Sharepoint Client? by paradizelost · · Score: 1

      Can someone say WineTools and install IE6?

      --
      "In a world without walls and fences, who needs Windows and Gates?"
    3. Re:OSS Sharepoint Client? by lmatheson · · Score: 1

      I suppose. In theory Sharepoint can be used in a cross-browser manner, but I've found its not unusual for MS-centric shops to build apps which don't work with other browsers. In any case, there's no "sharepoint client" as a separate product.

    4. Re:OSS Sharepoint Client? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, it's called firefox and it actually works. I have people on my team using Windows w/ firefox and MacOS X with IE and they can access most features just fine, except for some of the bells and whistles like integration with office and windows explorer to drag files straight onto the site.

  41. There is a reason for all those features. by microTodd · · Score: 1

    Joel S. talks about this. http://www.joelonsoftware.com/printerFriendly/arti cles/fog0000000020.html

    Basically, in order to grab market share, different pieces of the market need/want different sets of features. The aggregate total of ALL those features becomes the bloated MS Office suite.

    --
    "You cannot find out which view is the right one by science in the ordinary sense." - C.S. Lewis on Intelligent Design
  42. Two Words... by Phil+John · · Score: 3, Informative

    ...Sarbanes Oxley

    Companies need to keep logs of pretty much everything these days. Plus with having a system running in-house you can firewall off other IM services and not worry about employees using IM for non-work uses.

    Finally (as mentioned elsewhere in this thread) it integrates perfectly into you existing outlook/exchange server directory.

    --
    I am NaN
  43. They are just different SKU's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Theya re just different SKU's like earlier versions of office. Word docs from the enterprise edition will work just fine on the basic edition.

    Here is the full information on versions. Anandtech also has pricing info.
    http://download.microsoft.com/download/c/2/9/c2935 f83-1a10-4e4a-a137-c1db829637f5/OfficePackagingFS. doc

    Looks like they added a couple of high end SKU's for enterprises. The only thing that annoys me about this is that the student teacher edition doesn't have outlook as it did for 2003.

  44. Multiple versions? Mmm...must be a good thing by Jivha · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I wonder why people are falling for this talk about "multiple versions" in Office 2007. The available retail versions of MS Office 2003, as listed on Microsoft.com

    - MS 2003 Professional Ed.
    - MS 2003 Standard Ed.
    - MS 2003 Small Business Ed.
    - MS 2003 Student & Teacher Ed.

    And the versions of the upcoming Office 2007 as listed in the article

    - Professional
    - Standard
    - Enterprise
    - Small Business
    - Home & Student

    Guess what - all of one extra edition - "Enterprise" (Student & Teacher appears to have been rebranded as Home & Student). The way the article and the submission is written it would appear that multiple versions were the next best thing to sliced bread since, um, Office 2003?

    1. Re:Multiple versions? Mmm...must be a good thing by paradizelost · · Score: 1

      Your forgetting about Office Basic - only avaialabe OEM

      --
      "In a world without walls and fences, who needs Windows and Gates?"
    2. Re:Multiple versions? Mmm...must be a good thing by rfunches · · Score: 1

      Hey, don't shoot the messenger. I just submitted the story...but I thought it should be pointed out that there are versions like "Professional Plus" with convoluted names.

  45. Also Announced by carrier+lost · · Score: 3, Funny
    • Office Borg - Will assimilate all copies of non-Microsoft productivity software
    • Office Clipinator - A random collection of cute, animated icons which will attempt to provide the same clerical output as your average gum-chewing office assistant.
    • Office Extravaganza - Every piece of eye-candy imaginable - scrolling menus, transparent windows, aqua-theme derivatives
    • Office SUV - Sucks up all available computer resources with no discernable increase in useable output.
    • Office Enron - Provides plausible deniability by randomly losing sensitive documents, transferring incriminating information to unsuspecting coworker's hard drives and routinely wiping inbox.
    1. Re:Also Announced by dcrocha · · Score: 1

      There's also Office Chinese, which will not only offer Chinese language but also comes with a Format / Censor menu option, so you can censor your own files automatically.

      In the Enterprise Edition, this will be connected with a Communist Party censor via VPN, so he can accept/reject everything online, making it a really connected piece of **** (censored by Microsoft Word).

    2. Re:Also Announced by Mspangler · · Score: 1

      "Office Clipinator - A random collection of cute, animated icons which will attempt to provide the same clerical output as your average gum-chewing office assistant."

      I read that first as "Flipinator", which fits in really well with the rest of the sentence if you have recently read Bellwether by Connie Willis.

      Highly recommended book.

  46. Your company will die off... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...pretty much because you are overtly bucking the trend and refusing to give in to the "herd mentality" it takes to survive in this biz anymore. Face the music, MS won. We lost. Might makes Right. The sooner you get back into the status quo - follow the lemmings - way of running your IT ops, the sooner things will smooth out. You *are* supposed to budget for the expense of forced premature obsolescence of your software and replacing it every 18 months, ya know. If you aren't willing to commit to that, then you have no business trying to play in *their* IT world. /sarcasm intended/

  47. Re:OSS office... by michrech · · Score: 1

    This is far from "Insightful", it's plain WRONG.

    Right click in the document. Choose "Page...". Go to "Page" tab in the window that pops up. Select "Landscape". Done.

    (looking, I see you got moderated as a Troll, as you should have. I have one mod point left but felt this reply would do a better service than wasting it on a coward.)

    --
    bork bork bork!
  48. lol@star office by ninja_assault_kitten · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    see subject

  49. I will stick with Office 97, thank you very much! by rubberbando · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Why rebuy something that already works just fine? In fact, I find that Office 97 runs faster/better than any of the newer versions I've used at work.

    Each time I upgrade to a faster machine, I move my installation over to it. I noticed with Windows XP, the Office 97 installer crashes. After reading some boards online, I noticed that most people concluded that it wouldn't run/install on XP but after experimenting with the 'custom' install, I discovered that all you need to do uncheck the web import/export for Word and everything else will install just fine. Besides, who the heck uses Word to edit/create webpages anyway. :P

    --
    DEAD DEAD DEAD DELETE ME
  50. File Formats? by Kozar_The_Malignant · · Score: 1

    Please tell me that file formats are compatible accross all these versions, and please, please tell me that the Access file format hasn't changed yet fucking again.

    --
    Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
    1. Re:File Formats? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Microsoft has always had excellent interoperability between all versions of Office and Windows.

    2. Re:File Formats? by mazzarin · · Score: 1

      As stated in another comment, there is a new file format. Basically add an x to the end of your typical format. So, docx, xlsx, pptx, etc. HOWEVER There is a feature in all of the O12 apps that I have tried that are along the lines of 'Save in Office 97-2003 format'. For everything I have tried, it works fine.

  51. Box cover by saboola · · Score: 3, Funny

    Much like the EA sports games, each released with a year appended to the title (Madden 2006, MLB 2006, Lawn Darts 2006) Microsoft should also follow the trend of stick a famous player of the game on the front in a menacing pose. I nominate Ballmer throwing a chair.

  52. He he .... by gstoddart · · Score: 2, Funny
    a collaboration program and Web portal that is designed to run over corporate networks and the Internet...

    Oh, I'm sure it'll pretty effectively level them.

    *rimshot*

    Thanks folks, I'm here all week.
    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  53. Summary/article is incorrect on the product name by Titanium+Angel · · Score: 1

    The new Office is called "2007 Microsoft Office System." It was first announced to the public on Jensen Harris' blog (he is one of the architects of the new UI). The official Microsoft announcement for the press can be read here. I don't like it much, but it looks like they use the old car manufacturer naming scheme. Does this mean that we can expect a 2008 Microsoft Visual Studio?

  54. Re:Not a troll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It was probably because of the unsubstantiated attack on OOffice.

    To get your point accross, next time lose the expletives or try to back up your claims with factual data rather than rhetoric.

  55. Better iCalendar support by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 1

    Having sent in a feature request, I am informed by someone at Microsoft that there will indeed be better iCalendar support in Office 12 ( aka Office 2007 ). This is great, since I will be better able to exchange or publish calendars.

    --
    Jumpstart the tartan drive.
  56. Re:I will stick with Office 97, thank you very muc by trash+eighty · · Score: 3, Funny
    Besides, who the heck uses Word to edit/create webpages anyway.


    People with really bad web sites?

  57. Re:OSS office... by oirtemed · · Score: 1
    wow...i just went to Format -> Page and selected landscape for the document I'm currently typing in oo2.0

    Wow.

  58. Re:OSS office... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah right...

    We should set some rules here...Atleast compare usable products. Say for eg, Firefox is definetely a worthy candidate comapred to IE (infact Firefox is better in lot of aspects). Just because something is open source/free doesn't mean its noteworthy. Craps like AbiWord or StarOffice come nowhere closer to MS-Office's capabilities.

  59. Really??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So, it's the same set of features and support, but one costs more? Wow. The least you could have done is to tell us which one.

  60. Microsoft's new clippy could make lots of money... by realcoolguy425 · · Score: 1

    I see you're trying to make a page with letters. Your version of Microsoft Office only currently supports numbers, please click me and I'll magically transport your credit card number, and a retinal scan to microsoft, where you will be billed, filed, and issued an upgraded version to support letters.

    10 seconds later, I see you're trying to use punctuation...

  61. New versions of MS Office.. by jmilezy · · Score: 0

    Nowadays, a new version of MS Office may as well be equal to a new version of WinZip. Ha!

  62. Wow by Dunbal · · Score: 1


    That's great!

    Where can I download it? Ooops?

    --
    Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
  63. Integration for the WIN! by argStyopa · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Why aren't I getting any phone calls for the past 4 hours"
    "Because you show as busy in your calendar. You should get the voicemails as emails."
    "What?! And where are the voicemails of which you speak?"
    "You should be getting them."
    "Do you see any in my email?"
    "No....I see, you've forwarded your phone to your cellphone, so the voicemails will be forwarded to your PDA."
    "But I don't have them in there? It says that the emails were truncated because the PDA omits attachemnts over 128kb."
    "Oh then it would have dropped them off."
    "So where are they?"
    "Deleted. The PDA dropped them, and the voicemail server doesn't save them once sent."
    "So they're gone? 4 hours of voicemails - gone?"
    "Sorry, it looks like it"
    "But I'm not busy in the first place?"
    "Hmm...look, you got this email from your wife saying that it's Bill's birthday today."
    "So?"
    "She marked it as an all day event, when you accepted to add it to your calendar, it marked you as 'out all day'. Also, you're not going to get paid for today, we have our payroll integrated too."
    "So let me see if I understand this, according to my accepting a birthday reminder, I've lost 4 hours of vital voicemails, automatically rejected any meeting requests since the system thought I was already in one, and in fact I'm not even going to get paid for today?"
    "Yeah, sorry about that."
    "So since I'm definitely 'not here', then I guess the police won't suspect me of killing you?"
    "?"

    --
    -Styopa
    1. Re:Integration for the WIN! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's facking brilliant.

  64. Still running Office '97... by iBod · · Score: 1

    ...on some low-power laptops under Win98 or W2K.

    Works good enough - in fact can't really see much improvement more recent versions of Word and Excel for the kind of things most people use the application for in my organization.

  65. Sadly, Office 2007: Lexington never gets a break. by Lester67 · · Score: 1

    That damn Kirk gets sent on all the good missions.

  66. Publisher viewer by way2trivial · · Score: 1

    have the sender with the publisher file open
    select all (ctrl+a)
    right click any object,
    save as image

    I do this often.. sending the entire page as a jpg works easily...

    --
    every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
  67. Sharepoint by ndansmith · · Score: 1

    Sharepoint definately has a long way to go. Running an entire MS domain, I still have trouble getting around the security problems when forms opened from Sharepoint are sent via email. Hopefully this new distro will fix that but still, Sharepoint is completely un needed software.

  68. Re:2007? We just moved off 97 ... by 16K+Ram+Pack · · Score: 1
    Don't tell me... you got Office2K?

    I'm seeing some real slow upgrades on Office now. Running a corporate rollout at massive cost of software + people for a few tweaks just isn't selling. Most places I know are running Office 2K still.

  69. Re:Do I forsee... (tool alert) by infochuck · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You know, I'm no Access apologist, but I smell ignorance and FUD:

    "is horrible to use, the interface just blows"

    Wow. How insightful and informative. "Horrible to use" - could you elaborate? "Interface just blows" - is that a technical term?

    I find it quite easy to use, and the interface is very intuiutve. "Create New Database". Wow. That was tough. Enter column names in a table - ick!

    Just because YOU don't understand it/don't see/can't see the places where it is simply 'the right tool for the job' doesn't make it so. It just makes YOU a tool.

  70. I'm only interested in... by Mad+Ogre · · Score: 2, Funny

    I'm only interested in... the Eye Patch version. Aargh.

    --
    MadOgre.com
  71. Oops, my bad... by coastin · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    I thought TFA said they were releasing MS Orifice 2007 in the following versions:

    MS Orifice 2007 - Professional
    MS Orifice 2007 - Standard
    MS Orifice 2007 - Enterprise
    MS Orifice 2007 - Small Business
    MS Orifice 2007 - Home & Student

    I gota get my eyes checked...

    --
    I lost my sig...
  72. Perfect by 955301 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Because that's what I need my malicious script friendly word processing software to be - network aware and readily capable of "sharing" with the rest of the corporate environment.

    --
    You are checking your backups, aren't you?
  73. What a piece of Microsoft! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Use that expression. Everyone understands what you really mean and what you're implying.

  74. Johnny Dangerously Mod. by carrier+lost · · Score: 1

    Fargin' piece of Microsoft!

    MjM

  75. They need access by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    For a small shop that cant afford a real IT guy, Access is really important.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  76. Terrorist message. (N/T) by someone1234 · · Score: 1

    Terrorist message.

    --
    Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
  77. Yes by everphilski · · Score: 1

    The new XML format is interoperable and patches will be released for older versions (back to 97 I believe).

  78. Re:Do I forsee... (tool alert) by adamy · · Score: 1

    Disclaimer: I am a programmer. I now do Linux stuff, before I did Java and Oracle stuff, so I do not claim to be unbiased.

    At a previous job, back when I was a contractor doing Java/Web stuff, my boss asked me, "Do you know access?" It is a fairly simple database program, I'd done some work with it beofre, so I said, "Yes" and got pulled into a new project. They were doing reporting of customer data stored on servers and there was no real system in place to pull this infomration out of reports.

    I took the Comma Separated Value (CSV) formatted report and imported it into Access, and proceeded to try to pull together the desired information. I switched over to SQL view to write the non-trivial queires directly, and go something working. When I saved and restored the program. Acces had rewritten my queries, and written them into a format that it could not process. This was valid SQL that had already been proven to execute against the Jet engine, (I think it was Jet, might be newer) but the front end tried to force back into something it could process via the Query By Example (QBE) interface. At that point, I moved the project onto PostGRES and worked with a Java based web front end to build the reporting solution.

    That, so me, is a poor user interface.

    --
    Open Source Identity Management: FreeIPA.org
  79. Works vs Word by ScottCooperDotNet · · Score: 1

    I hope they drop the Works writer program. For some foolish reason Works files cannot be opened in Word; the "solution" is to use Works to save it in DOC format (Which is not the default, again, why?).

  80. Most people *arent* developers. by nobodyman · · Score: 1
    Access is not the best solution out there--it is horrible to use, the interface just blows, and it doesn't do a lot of what it should do.


    Hmm... I'm torn. As I developer I agree with you say on a technical level. Problem is, the majority of small businesses in the USA (50 or less employees), at most, 1 programmer. Your best bet is the single IT who mainly exists to keep things running. In this context, MSSQL + Crystal Reports is simply out of the question. You'll be lucky to have somebody on staff that can architect something or even install/administer it. The other issue is cost: licensing mssql and crystal reports aint cheep, and deployment is non-trivial.

    Contrast that with the fact that a small business probably has Access installed on every PC. And the reason developers and DBA's revile it is the same reason why business analysts adore it: you don't need to be a programmer to create a useful, data-driven application. The real problem is when so-and-so's app is *really* useful, and the entire department starts using it, and your non-indexed, one-table database with 57 columns and a char(255) primary key starts to run into scaleability issues.

    Not to say that Microsoft is all that great. The Access dev team has become weak & flabby, and the amount of functionality they've added since Access97 is pitiful. They make the IE dev team look bleeding edge. In spite of all that, it is still the gold standard for small businesses. As a developer I think that's truly sad, but that's just how it is.
  81. Perspective by ackthpt · · Score: 1
    I think it is Fear Of Not Having Every Feature which drives a lot of purchasing
    But it could also work against you. If you start pushing documents out the door and your customers complain that they can't read then then you have to turn off the advanced features, at which time people start to ask "why am I paying for this?". Any time there's a lot of sharing going on then you need a lowest common denominator, or you need to take Acrobat's approach and provide read-only and read-write versions.

    Take a step back from those thoughts. The reason Windows invaded the home was because people wanted compatibility with the systems they used at work. The reason every business bought into Windows and Office was because every other business was doing the same.

    Now consider that pushing objects (documents, spreadsheets, etc.) is a two way street. Business A wants to do communicate ideas to Business B, but A has Office version X while B has version Y. So to communicate the agree on the lowest common denominator, or worse, A is the "big dog" and says this is our standard, come up to it or we're done talking (not often, but I do recall one instance with someone at Compaq and a small company I worked for.) Whether anyone really needs any new features, once a few "big dog" companies adopt it the rest follow suit and Bob's your uncle.

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    1. Re:Perspective by toddbu · · Score: 1
      The reason Windows invaded the home was because people wanted compatibility with the systems they used at work.

      Yes and no. Yes, they wanted word processing functionality. And yes, they bought what they used at the office. But it's all predicated on the fact that people desired the functionality. Tell me what feature they could possibly build into Office any more that would appeal to your average Joe.

      --
      If you don't want crime to pay, let the government run it.
    2. Re:Perspective by ackthpt · · Score: 1
      Tell me what feature they could possibly build into Office any more that would appeal to your average Joe.

      The ability to see what you're working on for work.

      Everywhere I have worked there have been those who take work home (I steadfastly refuse to) to finish it. Often this work is done on a laptop borrowed from work, but some are on the employees own or laptop.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  82. Hayyyyyy!!!!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hay look I'm posting on slashdot!!

    I'm gonna post my Opinions even though I don't know shit about Office 2007, so I'll just assume Office hasn't changed all that much since Office 97.

    It's just Excel, Word, and Powerpoint, right?

    *scoff*

    *scoff*

    WTF is a workflow?

  83. Who here still uses old Office versions? by antdude · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Does anyone here still prefer and use older versions like Office 2000? At home, I use 2000 version and it still does fine for my needs. I don't do fancy editings in Excel, Word, and PowerPoint. Sometimes I use OpenOffice especially in Linux and Mac OS X v10.2.8 (NeoOffice), but that's rare. At work, I have to use Office 2003 since it is required by IT. I don't like these newer versions (2002/XP, 2003, etc.).

    --
    Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    1. Re:Who here still uses old Office versions? by Bowling+Moses · · Score: 1

      I had a friend who used to work for Microsoft and he told me that their biggest competition was older versions of their own products--I imagine that's common knowledge to the /. crowd. I upgraded about two years ago to Office 2003, not because of anything that product gave me in and of itself, but because I needed to use Endnote and the current version wasn't compatible with Office 97. As far as I can tell, there is nothing in Office 2003 that I use that wasn't available in Office 97 (or for that matter 95), but it took about a half an hour to turn off all the useless shit and have it set up to my liking. I'd still be running Office 97 if I could. The next time I upgrade my MS Office software, probably like many people, will be the next time I buy a new computer. For me that'll probably around about 2008, except that'll likely be a Mac laptop after the Intel teething problems are done, and I might just go with a less expensive MS Office alternative if I can maintain my Endnote library. By 2008 MS Office will likely cost over half the price of a new mid-level laptop.

    2. Re:Who here still uses old Office versions? by Petrushka · · Score: 1

      Forget Office 2000 -- on my country's equivalent of Ebay, Office 97 still sells for $50 plus.

      A non-off-topic question: does anyone know if OpenOffice.org 2.0.2 is still scheduled to come out before the end of the month? It's got a bugfix in it that I badly need (and which has been keeping me on OOo 1.1.5).

    3. Re:Who here still uses old Office versions? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well no, I use OO.o exclusively now, with some Gnumeric and Abiword when i want something lighter, however i can understand that users would rather have a moderately stable and quick older build of office than the latest and greatest bright blue plastic version of Office XP.

    4. Re:Who here still uses old Office versions? by aj50 · · Score: 1
      Yes! Since Office 2000, not much has changed in the basic apps apart from powerpoint which has better animations & effects. I can do without the annoying sidebar, I don't need it cluttering up my workspace when I'm working and I want it bigger when I'm using it.

      Recently, I was lucky enough to pick up a copy of Office 2000 for around £20 when some company had found a few boxes in the back of their warehouse. Certainly beats the £89 for the student edition of 2003 (and what self respecting student has £89 kicking around anyway?)

      --
      I wish to remain anomalous
    5. Re:Who here still uses old Office versions? by tshak · · Score: 1

      Does anyone here still prefer and use older versions like Office 2000?

      No. Actually, I used Star Office up until 2003. The main reason was security with Outlook. Outlook 2003 was a complete rewrite and I have since upgraded from Eudora. The other tools are rather "bleh" in comparison to 2000 or 97, so I guess I would agree with you there. Nevertheless, from what I've seen in 2007, there's a lot of nice changes to make things more usable. This is very important to a "non-proficient" Office user like myself. We'll see if these changes have much of an impact. A few select people are beta testing Office 2007 now and are loving it, so I may be next on the bandwagon.

      --

      There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
    6. Re:Who here still uses old Office versions? by AaronLawrence · · Score: 1

      Yep. Office 2000. Interestingly I *don't* have any inter-operability problems with others using XP or 2003.

      --
      For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. - Arthur C. Clarke
    7. Re:Who here still uses old Office versions? by antdude · · Score: 1

      Oh, and that's another reason. Heh.

      I wonder if the new version will force us to upgrade because of that. Hmm!

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
  84. Just wait... by plopez · · Score: 1

    Until MS Access 'loses' 3-4 months of very important information because it has no data integrity. You do have backups, don't you?

    --
    putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
  85. Missed One by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 1

    How about Office Everything, for those of us who what to spend the most amount of money possible on features we'll never need -- but love to boast about?

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  86. Office vs. LaTeX by lioncoeur · · Score: 1

    I had to quickly copy+paste something today on the M$ computer I was using which had special characters in it, so I had to use Word. Gee, I'm sure glad I'm not using this horseshit to write my thesis. It crashed after hitting the 92nd page because the little squiggly paperclip man couldn't handle all the spelling errors in the foreign text. What's the purpose of having a computer with 2.5 GB of memory and two Pentium Celeron processors if Word still crashes?

    I'm sure glad I'm using LaTeX for real work.

  87. Pricing sheet by dukemarlon · · Score: 1

    Here A pricing sheet for the new suites.

  88. Could be worse by dukemarlon · · Score: 1

    Even though I am not a fan of Microsoft products, they are giving out choices on what to buy. It is true that not everyone needs every software application from Microsoft. This is why 7 different packages will be ofered. From here you can click on the links to see the pricing, and what packages will be available, and with what applications included. Although, if you ask me, even the 'Basic' and 'Home and Student' options are overpriced.

  89. Don't forget the other versions of Office... by Chordonblue · · Score: 1

    Now there's Office Regular Light and Office Maxi Pro with Wings(tm) for those heavy flow days...

    What a way to split up a product line! Whose going to be able to follow whose got what version? As if .DOC wasn't a poor enough 'standard' to begin with! I think the future of OpenOffice is assured with this kind of stupidity.

    --
    "...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
  90. By far the best version.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  91. Re:Do I forsee... (tool alert) by infochuck · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here - though every bone in my body assumes YOU did something screwy, because I have NEVER had this problem - and not imply you're doing something screwy.

    Instead I will point this out: the program screwed you over, yes; but not 'the interface'. The interface did what it was supposed to: helped you create a query to get at your data. If the other tiers screwed up, fine. After all Access is mostly crap. Yeah, I said it. It is; but it HAS ITS PLACE, and it's not crap beacuse of the interface; the interface is rather refined, and that was my original/main point.

  92. Re: Where the heck is Outlook? by Wizzmer · · Score: 1

    Where the heck is Outlook? Isn't that a basic application?

  93. Re:OSS office... by westlake · · Score: 1
    Two words: vi, LaTeX

    Four words: Office Temp, Senior Volunteer.

  94. How long before OpenOffice ports by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    all of the new formats?

    Or do we have to download it from a European site to get around the software "patents" they probably "included"?

    That's all I want to know about Office 12 um 2007 um 2008 um 2009 um bugfix coming real soon now please don't replace us.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  95. The more versions, the merrier by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    We need a new biotech wing here at the UW.

    Plus, I've always wanted to get an Office Foamy the Squirrel edition - that's the one that comes with Java, lots of Java, and instead of Clippy annoying you there's this squirrel who obviously has a caffeine addiction problem and talks a lot.

    Of course, the online help is a little squirrely, with suggestions like this:

    "Whatcha doin? Oh, not another one of those memo things, are you? Weren't you going to get me some coffee?"

    and

    "Time for another Foamy rant: What's with all these Saves you keep doing? I mean, do you really need to save the document every time you go to the bathroom? And could you flush next time, it's starting to reek in here. And don't turn off the monitor, I can't see your cat to torment it when you do that."

    and, of course, the obligitory Foamy the Squirrel songs when you start typing something really really boring.

    Yup, hope they give us the student/staff discount for that one.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  96. Re:Do I forsee... (tool alert) by adamy · · Score: 1

    Hmmm. Well, QBE certainly does have its place. I'll concede the point that it was not the QBE UI that was messing up my query. It was the mechanism saving nd restoring queries that was broken.

    I wasn't really doing anything that wonky, just something I couldn't figure out how to do using QBE.

    --
    Open Source Identity Management: FreeIPA.org
  97. Message Threading in Outlook? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ok... we're at version 12 now and still no proper
    message threading?

    How about some basics... then the useless.

  98. Just use PDF by dbIII · · Score: 1
    When we get unworking things from clients we reply that we were unable to process their doc, the reason why, and instructions on how to do it
    Is it really a good idea to have such documents in an alterable format? There is a lot of extra information embedded in the files (deleted portions may be recoverable) and there is the obvious problem of people altering the working of contracts to favour themselves. We're mostly stuck with powerpoint - but *.doc files can always be PDF instead.

    I'm still pissed off with the multiple versions of Word97 that were incompatable with each other but came in identical packaging and CD labels. I've never been able to assume an MS product will work as advertised since.

  99. codename? by glitch23 · · Score: 0

    MSNBC reports that Microsoft's next version of Office, now known as Office 2007 (previously code-named Office 12)...

    Office 12 was a codename? Since when has an actual version number been a damn codename?

    --
    this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom. -- Lincoln, Gettysburg Address
  100. Re: Where the heck is Outlook? by westlake · · Score: 1
    Where the heck is Outlook? Isn't that a basic application?

    OneNote 2007 replaces Outlook in Office Home. Vista Home will include an improved Windows Mail app and Windows Calendar with iCalendar support.

  101. I read about the Communicator and thought... by SeaFox · · Score: 1

    and also incorporate Microsoft Office Communicator, a corporate instant messaging service

    Scotty! Beam up my TPS Reports!

  102. Re:I will stick with Office 97, thank you very muc by phobafiliac · · Score: 0

    People with really bad web sites?

    i thought they used Frontpage?

    --
    take what i say with a grain of salt, a dash of pepper, a pinch of oregano, and an itty bitty little drip of faygo
  103. 2000, too, yes. by Kagami001 · · Score: 1

    http://www.microsoft.com/office/preview/developers /fileoverview.mspx
    Bottom of the page, under "Compatibility."

    The question remains, though, will MS actually implement this to exactly match its specifications, or are we just looking at the next RTF? (As far as compatibility of whole documents goes.)

  104. Double plus good? by torok · · Score: 1

    At this rate, I'm suprised there will be no MS Office Professional Double Plus Plus Good....