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Cops Walking the MySpace Beat
theodp writes "Meet the point-and-click police. Newsweek reports that a growing number of ordinary officers are working a new beat, turning to MySpace to collect clues and crack offline cases. Most of the nabbed wrongdoers have been victims of their own hubris, like the two boys who uploaded video of themselves firebombing an abandoned airplane hangar earlier this month."
Most of the nabbed wrongdoers have been victims of their own hubris, like the two boys who uploaded video of themselves firebombing an abandoned airplane hangar earlier this month.
I was thoroughly disappointed when I clicked that link and saw that there was no video after the site had loaded.
It's like sex, except I'm having it!
Seems like MySpace will not only help cops, but give fodder to Jay Leno's idiot criminals skit or people producing books like The World's Dumbest Criminals .
Only a dumb ass would post things on the internet.
I behave as though anything I do on the internet will be recorded and saved forever. I'd rather not have to explain something I posted today to a potential employer twenty years from now. Ditto for some nutcase prosecuter with a creative theory about how I caused the war in Viet Nam (I'm exagerating for emphasis).
By now everyone should be wise enough not to post every single piece of information about them anywhere online, let alone in one place. Parents should be more diligent not with monitoring every single thing their kids do on the computer, but educating them what's ok and not ok to do on the Internet. Am I the only one getting tired of all this MySpace business? On the bright side I was amused reading TFA and seeing how these people were done in by their own sheer stupidity.
"0101100101? It's just jibberish. *looks in mirror, gasps* 1010011010@!? AHHHHHH!!"
This has been going on for awhile, but primarily on Facebook to my knowledge. According to Wikipedia, Facebook has been used in numerous investigations, including one last year at my university to catch students who rushed the field. Students had set up groups saying that they had rushed the field, and the police matched pictures from security cameras to student pictures. At least several of them were kicked out of school. Needless to say, this caused quite a scene on campus, but really, what do you expect when you put the information online yourself?
If they were installing hidden cameras, taping phones, or installing keyloggers without cause, I really don't see the problems. If you can get a heads up about someone robbing a house tomorrow night because they were stupid enough to post it on MySpace, why should that be considered protected?
If someone painted a sign saying "I've stolen three cars from this street!" and wore it on said street, is there any reason the cops can't at least stop and question him (even if he denies anything vocally) and check up on him later?
As far as legal requirements for police goes, there's a "Plain View" clause (I'm sure there's a Latin term for it.) For the few who may not understand, it basically says that if the item is in plain view, it can be used. If the cops respond to a noise complaint at your house, look past you into the home, and see a meth lab, they can use that. They may not be able to bust in right away to arrest you (varies by state and circumstance), but they can call up a warrant PDQ. If they pushed their way into the house without cause, or just shoved you to the side to see it, it would most likely be inadmissable.
In the case of the meth lab and the robbery, both are due to horrible stupidity on the perpetrator's part, and there really is no reason they should be protected because of it. If the cop is stalking someone on their MySpace page because s/he doesn't like their choice in music, and wants to make sure they don't decide to steal a CD of it or something, then we might have cause for worry, but this is more likely something done by the common public than by the police, who hopefully are out catching badies and don't have enough time to track every movement on MySpace.
Now, as far as some smaller things go, like stealing CDs or smoking MJ, they can't just take the MySpace page and present that as conclusive evidence; they'd have to get other evidence (like the CD or MJ itself) to prosecute. Could it be enough for a warrant for the other evidence? Maybe. I think that's a legal battle that will come up, because you can't be sure if they actually did it or they're (erronously) trying to look cool for their interweb friends by posting it.
As with much of the internet (which has brought on a lot of problems really fast,) the law is still trying to catch up, and things like MySpace, LiveJournal, and perhaps even sites like Slashdot and Fark could play a role in some big trials in the next 5 or 10 years, especially how global information is received and used in criminal cases.
I guess it does fall under the free information clause, but IMVHO I don't think anything found on there should be admissable. After all, how hard is it to falsify a myspace account?
If you're dumb enough to post incriminating material on the internets you deserve to get caught.
Next time in the land of the SIMs...I mean MySpace.
yes, there should be and probably will be more than enough investigation into tips/leads found there BUT you know there will be enough bored teenagers and even some others trying to "frame" the more/less popular kids and school yard rivals, that whole libel/slander/romour mill thing.
Sure there's a chance of a good hit once in a while, just watch out for the false positive. Especially all those energetic prosecutors wanting to make a name for themselves even at the cost of a questionable guilty verdict and an innocent kid's freedom.
Near worst case, but possible
F7 doesn't work, ignore spelling and grammar
If you're sad enough to not realize the implications of making the wrong that you caused publicly viewable, you deserve whatever punishment received.
Jim http://www.runfatboy.net/ -- A workout plan that doesn't feel like homework.
It should not amaze us how stupid a great many people are. Yet at the same time we should be careful what we assign to the category of "stupid". There are many valid reasons to put what you think and do on the internet. The understanding is that there may be reprecussions and for that you must be willing to be subject to them.
While this deals with criminal activity or intent never forget that laws change and are abused and what may be alright one day may not be the next. Never forget what laws exist in countries you travel because it isn't far off that you may find yourself in trouble while traveling all because your name showed up in some database because of what you put on the net.
We always bemoan the government and even businesses getting into our personal existance and yet many will go out of their way to make it available on the internet and never once think about what they have done. Its no different than wandering the shady side of town at night but not as obvious to most.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
So you're suggesting that my recent investment in the social networking sites BankHeistSpace.com and WillTradeKiddiePornVids.net is a bad move?
I dont have a MySpace account because it's frequented by scenesters and goths who have no real other method of networking. The real nerds use IRC and multiplayer games to network, and do it quite successfully. A lot of my friends from college have Myspace accounts because they're trendy and you can get hooked up with people really easily on there. One of my friends solicits hook-ups on there. There's nothing wrong with it, but I'm not enough of a scenester to want to use that place. If I'm really hard-up for a date or some companionship, I could always join a social club like my dad did. I just dont belong to the same cultural set that produced the Myspace movement. I hang out with them though.
SRSLY.
There are some people with way too much free time... Ive found myspace friends networks of completely fabricated myspace accounts of all world leader, most of the US government, and celebrities and odditities like severely obese people. e.g. http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=us er.viewprofile&friendid=6432557
There are some really immature people with wayyyy too much free time on their hands.
Maybe forgotten, but that's part of what police work is about. You walk the beat, get to know the population, learn the patterns, and when something happens you probably have some idea already of where to look or who to talk to. It's the whole idea behind having regular community / school / campus officers rather than having patrols by whatever unit happens to be around.
Having been on the inside of digital police work, we should be damn happy that people leak information and hubris, and are generally clueless as far as digital security is concerned. People get caught through their own sloppyness and boasting, and hours of hard work from officers, rather than from the police being particularly technologically advanced. The referenced article is another example of this: regular officers spending time going through lots of potential evidence rather than advanced technoly.
Anything that happens in public space is potentially viewable by anyone, ergo it is in the public domain and there is no expectation fo privacy. So far, so good.
Now, how would you feel if every square inch of this public space was being constantly monitored by closed-circuit cameras whose feeds are reviewed by police officers? I know how I would feel. Not so hot about it, to say the least. Now is the monitoring technically invading the privacy of anyone? As far as the law is concerned, no. It is still a violation of the dignity of human beings? You bet. Psychologically, it is wearying to be constantly surveilled, and even though a police officer feasibly could not be looking at every camera all the time, the potential for active surveillance would likely cause the average human being to develop some serious nervous conditions.
It is a comparable (though not, admittedly, a completely analogous) situation where you have a public space that is intended to be social (facebook, myspace, etc.) that is being effectively surveilled by an official party, there is a powerful chilling effect and takes away some of the value of that space.
Now, admittedly, the examples so far were of idiots who were practically bragging about wrongdoing, but as these spaces are more effectively surveilled and being used for things they were not originally intended (such as employers looking for info about employees), the social value of the spaces will erode as people modulate their behavior to be less honest as they have their eye upon the possibility of other consequences for their career or for avoiding brushes with the law.
All the techniques ever used to make men moral have been themselves thoroughly immoral... (Nietzsche)
From the looks of this, myspace is really pushing the limits of 'stupid is what stupid does' and that the abuse (i.e.lack of education about usage?) is being exploited and now the other extreme (i.e. the cops) are essentially doing the same thing... to counter that usage.
Unfortunately, this could make the case for tier internet much more compelling.
Back in 1999 or 2000, Audi brought back the S-series of cars in the USA with a performance version of the A4 sedan- the S4. It was a twin-turbocharged V6, and it was faster than the BMW M3- the yardstick at the time. As with many turbocharged cars, manufacturers don't push the limits of these engines for a lot of different reasons; insurance categories, "gentleman's agreements" on speeds or horsepower levels, reliability, stepping on other model lines, room for "improvement" in next year's model, etc. There's plenty of room for a "tuner" to release revised "chips" (tables used for fuel, timing, and boost pressure levels stored in [E/EE/P]ROM memory) that increase horsepower levels. The S4 biturbo reliably makes slightly over 300HP with a chip (from 250); my '91 Audi makes almost 280 (from 217. And it has done so for about 100,000 miles with no problems. It was chipped at 110,000 miles, so yes, some chips are perfectly fine.)
Chip makers pushed the limits to offer the "best" chips- or did shoddy testing, rushing development, to be first-to-market. A few of the chips could overspin the turbos, and a couple people grenaded them.
Dealers were wise to "chips" and would look for them if a car with damaged turbos came in (and Audi implemented various controls to make ECU-swapping much more difficult, but they've all been circumvented.) US warranty law prohibits them from blaming a failure on an aftermarket component unless they can prove reasonably that the changed component caused the failure; a chip is a pretty damn clear-cut case. So these kids (and many of them were in fact kids- rich off internet dot-coms, or mummy and daddy) would borrow a friend's stock ECU, put it in the car, and have it towed to the dealer and say "gee, I dunno what happened."
Then the geniuses would go on Audiworld and brag about how they "tricked the dealer", complete with thumbs-up and grinning smiley icons, people congradulating them, etc. Someone at Audi Client Relations noticed (or was tipped off by people pissed at the scam), and ACR started surfing the forum regularly looking for fraud, and -completely- voiding the warranties of those they could find and in some cases going after owners for the cost of repairs, and postings in forums were cited as evidence. I don't remember if anyone was sued or not- I believe a few were.
That wasn't shocking; what was shocking was the reaction from the Audiworld users. They were absolutely livid that Audi Client Relations DARED to "snoop" on "their" forum.
It's not just the Internet- it has been my personal experience that few people take responsibility for their actions and many are infuriated when someone catches them doing something wrong, instead of being ashamed.
Please help metamoderate.
Most of the time people find mainly two major interests on the internet, Entertainment and Information. The common confusion is that the people posting often enough can't determine the difference to what they are posting, what they think is entertainment for all, is information for the few. The article above is a great example of this.
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.
The guys in the black van are more dangerous. Who knows what parts of what you say today will be outlawed tomorrow.
Posting AC may not get you anywhere however, your IP still is out there.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Here's an LA Times article from a paranoid MySpace Mom who spies on her daughter for fear of those pedophiles the idiot box keeps talking about. Best parts are the Mom doesn't understand private profiles, and asks her friends about the site before looking at it herself. And then she bans her daughter from the one form of Internet activity she can easily track. Now her daughter is banned from MySpace but we're all sure she won't be using IM and web-mail, right?
So Barney Fife and Roscoe P. Coltrain if you're listening...some of us are watching.
0x09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
From the MSNBS article:
A searchable, public scrapbook of images, affiliations and written exchanges, it offers detectives raw data on 70 million potential suspects, witnesses or victims (Facebook.com has also served as a source of info, though it is limited to users on college campuses). MySpace has good reason to cooperate with the cops.
Seems that police is getting some kind of back-door to get "raw" data.
If police uses the normal frontend on the web publicly accessable it's ok, but if they get more than that from the provider without a court order or subpoena, I think it's questionable and an intrusion of privacy. If your provider is giving your information automatically to the police without you knowing about it, it's time to go elsewhere.
Who cares? BB is everywhere with thousands of cameras
If any of you want to enjoy a private and safe online social network (or want to set one up so your kids and their friends get off of MySpace), here's how to do it, if you or someone you know/trust has a moderate level of understanding about computers.
1- set up a server on a spare computer (LAMP is pretty easy with a package based disro)
2- install a SVPN on the server and anyone's computer that will connect to it
3- install a BB, like phpBB on the server.
4- configure your BB This way, not only is access to the server private (since it doesn't have a static IP) but when it is accessed via the SVPN, that access is password protected and encrypted end-to-end.
Despite this, don't go uploading how you firebomb airplane hangers (you should be that stupid to firebomb one in the first place, let alone record it). But it is reassuring to know that even if you did it would be private and secure.
Faith is a willingness to accept something w/o complete proof and to act on it. Reason allows you to correct that faith.
Well, crap. Now I gotta go change my MySpace profile. Are the cops checking Blogger, too? I hope not. What's the usual sentence for third-degree yoinking and aggravated shenanigans?
He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing.
gee folks whodda thunk that the police would use Myspace for this.
Like a certain book has stated police like BBs because they are crammed full of evidence unhidden clear as day evidence
(note look at the named html color list for the joke)
Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
Maybe now it should be "Don't do the crime if your gonna post it online."
Never forget what laws exist in countries you travel because it isn't far off that you may find yourself in trouble while traveling all because your name showed up in some database because of what you put on the net.
"it isn't far off"?? How about right now in the USA? In fact, the USA has been like this for years. And if your name is David Nelson you don't even need to have an internet presence to be in trouble.
And anyone who believes "you have nothing to fear, if you have nothing to hide" should be locked up in a home for the deluded.
-- it must be true, it's on the internet.
http://dumbcrooks.com/
You don't have to fork out for the book if you don't want to.
And I got the ref from
http://www.darwinawards.com/
But people who get a darwin award are unlikely to blog about it.
-- it must be true, it's on the internet.
If you confess to a crime in a public place, then yes, the cops have every right to open a case against you.
This isn't rocket science, nor an infringment of your rights. It's simply common sense.
Myspace is like walmart ( only I'd rather visit a walmart than myspace ). If you walk into walmart, and say in a loud voice over and over again how you had sex with an underage child, you can bet your ass you will be investigated. To do anything otherwise would be incomptence on the part of the cops.
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
Facebook is a closed system, not just anyone can look. They require a valid college email address to join, and then limit whos profile you can see. How do the police get around those limits, and see ALL the profiles?
What good is facebook if a police officer graduated from Western Michigan University, but the profile with the incrimination evidence is posted under the profile of someone who went to Michigan State University?
Does Facebook sell accounts that the police and employers can purchase to view all profiles?
I do not feel the least bit threatened by this at all.
This is just yet another reason why I refuse to get a MySpace account. People need to learn their lesson that whatever they post on the Internet is public. Even if it's labelled "private", it's still public. MySpacers have the "look at my page now" attitude whenever it comes to their friends, but when it's someone they don't like, it's a "get away from me, you're trespassing on my privacy" attitude.
As for police investigations, I'm all for it. Personally I'm sick of people posting illegal material on their MySpace, glorifying it, and getting the respect of every other junkie who is lucky enough to see it. Illegal things should be investigated and prosecuted.
As for the legality of searching on MySpace, I pull up this quote from my government textbook (Government By The People, by Burns). I hope it's relevant: "Police may make warrantless searches in public places if the offers have probable cause, or at least a reasonable suspicion, that the persons in question have committed or are about to committ crimes. No later than two days after making such an arrest the police must take the arrested person to a magistrate so that the magistrate, not just the police, can decide whether probable cause existed to justify the warrantless arrest. Probable cause however does not except in extreme emergencies justify a warrantless arrest of people in their own homes...Not every time the police stop a person to ask questions or to seek that person's consent to search is there seizure or detention requiring probable cause or warrant. If the police just ask questions or even seek consent to search an individuals person or possessions in a noncoercive atmoshpere, there is no detention".
Once the average person realizes that everyone watches everything on the Internet, then we won't have problems like this. The amount of information one can glean on someone or about a certain event through MySpace and through various search engines is astounding. But most people don't have the common sense to know that.
Do not mark in this space. For official office use only.
Show me the profiles of people that might be later used to screw them out of a job or used by over zelous prosecutors.
Lets see all those profiles with crime and pictures from spring break.
There's a certain special thing about people getting caught for openly bragging about what they did.... Has prevented a lot of school shootings probably....
In undeveloped countries, the consumer controls the market. In capitalist America, the market controls you.
Ok, so does Jim have a personal team of moderators who always give him +5? What gives? Every other article I have to read his
Ethan http://www.dont/ advertise in your sig its annoying.info/
What's the usual sentence for third-degree yoinking and aggravated shenanigans?
IANAL but I think that would probably fall under "Criminal Mischief", which is probably different depending on the state you're in.
I agree. However, MySpace cannot be used as evidence.
I have talked publicly about doing unususal things. My friends and I used to talk about the best way to dispose of a body while looking around the sporting goods section of Wally World. Does that mean a cop can begin an investigation?
What if he finds a body nearby that was disposed of in a creative manner with no other evidence? What would the trial be like? Just because they heard me talking about body disposal and they found a body, does that mean I'm guilty?
Here's another example: Lets say I'm unpopular in school. To boost my reputation, I decide to blog about how I burned down a house. I got most of the details from $local_news and just made the rest up.
Now, they always leave out details. Let'say I fill in $accelerant from last month's CSI. Just so happens that the real criminal got the idea from the same place.
They have your claim, they have you knowing an unpublished detail. Will I be convicted?
What if I have a pic of me testing a gravity bong with tobacco. Should my school (assuming I'm at least 18) be able to suspend me?
What about if I post a chat log of me talking about BSDM with a 14yo girl? Just because there is text containing the claim that she is 14 does not, in fact, mean that she is 14...or even a girl. Should that open the door for a child-sex investigation?
The internet is, in part, about the dissemination of fact. That was it's original intent; to share facts and information. However, the internet has become, in large part, a medium of entertainment.
Who is to say that my blog is not a work of fiction?
Do cops troll Hollywood movies looking for people discharging firearms within city limits?
Then why should they troll MySpace looking for, and opening investigations on, stuff that may or may not be true?
On a side note, I keep waiting for someone busted on Perverted Justice to claim that they had a reasonable expectation that the "girl" they were chatting with was, in fact, a guy. I mean, cmon! Does anyone really believe that 14yo supermodels are hanging out in Yahoo! incest and animal-sex chat rooms?
I'd rather you do it wrong, than for me to have to do it at all.
You can't have it both ways - either the cops can follow up on evidence found on the 'beat' (public space, [MySpace|street]), or they can't.
If that was what they were doing - you'd have a point. But it's not. In the case of the TFA, they merely did in virtual space what they'd do in meatspace - examine the evidence and look for clues and/or holes in people's stories. In the instance of scanning MySpace for pedophiles (or idiots who firebomb buildings and brag of it), that's the internet equivalent of pulling over the driver who is weaving all over the road.In my case, absolutely none. Not because I haven't posted anything - but because I haven't done anything.It's called investigation and evidence - something the cops and educated people are aware of, and fearmongering slashdot posters seem not to be.It only fails to be different to the fearmongers.I think the real crime is that car manufacturers are even allowed to offer non-warranty after sales service. I know that must sound kinda crazy. I mean, who knows better how to fix the car than the manufacturer right? But if car owners are willing to allow them to charge for after sales service, I hardly think they can complain when the manufacturers diliberately hide flaws in the vehicle and information that can be use by third party repairers. Think about it, if car owners were to refuse all non-warranty after sales service from the manufacturer, the manufacturers would be forced to release as much information about their vehicles as possible. They would have to work with third party repairers to ensure they offer good service to owners of the cars made by that manufacturer. Fair Trade laws should ensure that the manufacturer has to give all third parties the same information, not just favour particular third parties, ensuring competition and driving down the price of third party repairs.
Similarly, open source does the same thing for software. Sure, we don't need "repairs" but we all have our own special needs for software, and third party customization should be a much bigger market than it is now.
How we know is more important than what we know.
"Hey, you're supposed to be working, what are you doing browsing profiles of 16 year old girls on MySpace?"
"I...er...I'm...um...I'm looking into possible crimes that these teenagers may have committed. Right. That's what I'm doing."
If you're going to do something illegal, don't tape it, don't take pictures of it, don't write about it, and most of all...don't post it on the internet. Does common sense even exist anymore?
What's the matter, James? No glib remark? No pithy comeback?
I have talked publicly about doing unususal things. My friends and I used to talk about the best way to dispose of a body while looking around the sporting goods section of Wally World. Does that mean a cop can begin an investigation?
If he has reason to think you are actualy looking to dispose of a body, yes.
What if he finds a body nearby that was disposed of in a creative manner with no other evidence? What would the trial be like? Just because they heard me talking about body disposal and they found a body, does that mean I'm guilty?
That's what investigations and trials are all about. Why is it that any time there is discussion about anything law enforcement does people assume they're going to be convicted and sentenced to life on one piece of circumstancial evidence.
BTW, if you do ever get convicted on one piece of circumstancial evidence, sue your lawyer.
Here's another example: Lets say I'm unpopular in school. To boost my reputation, I decide to blog about how I burned down a house. I got most of the details from $local_news and just made the rest up.
Now, they always leave out details. Let'say I fill in $accelerant from last month's CSI. Just so happens that the real criminal got the idea from the same place.
They have your claim, they have you knowing an unpublished detail. Will I be convicted?
Again, please see investigation and trial by jury for more information as to how the criminal justice system works.
What if I have a pic of me testing a gravity bong with tobacco. Should my school (assuming I'm at least 18) be able to suspend me?
Again see investigation and trial by jury.
What about if I post a chat log of me talking about BSDM with a 14yo girl? Just because there is text containing the claim that she is 14 does not, in fact, mean that she is 14...or even a girl. Should that open the door for a child-sex investigation?
Um yes.
Who is to say that my blog is not a work of fiction?
If it is, that would be revealed in the investigation.
Do cops troll Hollywood movies looking for people discharging firearms within city limits?
Then why should they troll MySpace looking for, and opening investigations on, stuff that may or may not be true?
I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say here but if you're saying what I think you're saying, you realize that movies have to get permits for that right? As for the investiations thing, it's because it may be true. Isn't that the job of cops, to investigate?
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
If you walk into walmart, and say in a loud voice over and over again how you had sex with an underage child, you can bet your ass you will be investigated.
I would have agreed with you, but I think using sex crimes against children as in a justification for some law or police tactic that is going to be used for much more that those kinds of crimes is like bringing up Hitler in a debate (and with Godwin's law you automatically lose that debate etc.).
The time has come to shutdown myRedbook and to arrest the people running its web site. The cops need to do their job.
It is not unusual for criminals to brag about their crimes to their friends. Suprise suprise for various reasons these friends may be inclined to then spread the info. Some even directly to the police because they are fucking disgusted with it. Others because they use the info to get away with their own lesser crime. Get picked up for a theft? Tell the arresting officer about that guy you heard bragging about a rape.
Off course nowadays people are so amazingly stupid they even record their own evidence and then make it publicly available. Kinda like walking into a police station and then confessing. Should there be some privacy law to protect the truly stupid?
Offcourse not.
As for people claiming that you shouldn't post personal information on the net if you don't want to get caught. Geez, get a clue. If you don't want to get caught. Don't commit the crime!
These kids are not "normal" teenagers doing stupid teenage things. When you start filming your "happy slappings" you have long since crossed the border into "insane criminal who needs to be locked up for life" territory.
Many people seem to see privacy laws as being there to protect you against getting caught. That is not what it is about. All those laws restricting the police are there to protect you against being falsly convicted FOR A CRIME YOU DID NOT COMMIT. It was never the idea to give you protection to get away with stuff. That is considered an unfortunate side-effect, not the goal itself.
IF there was a way to get perfect privacy with no people being able to get away with a crime THAT would be the holy grail of privacy laws.
to many times you see people trying to invoke pricacy laws to supress evidence off crimes they committed. "Yes yes, the evidence clearly shows I did it but you it is not fair you got that evidence". That is not a good thing.
Privacy freaks would get a lot more respect if they spend slightly more time defending the innocent vs the guilty. The average joe doesn't exactly give a damn that some criminals rights were violated. Just ask how many think that jail rape is a good thing.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
What? There's a constitutional right to MySpace privacy? This ought to be good.
I have talked publicly about doing unususal things. My friends and I used to talk about the best way to dispose of a body while looking around the sporting goods section of Wally World. Does that mean a cop can begin an investigation?
Duh, yes! Are you really saying that a cop can't talk to you or ask to look in your car under those circumstances? And I did say "ask".
What if he finds a body nearby that was disposed of in a creative manner with no other evidence? What would the trial be like? Just because they heard me talking about body disposal and they found a body, does that mean I'm guilty?
Duh, no! You can be investigated based on circumstantial evidence, but not convicted based on it. If they needed proof before they could investigate, what's the point of having investigations? - You already have proof! Cops investigate lots of people, and the cops know that most of them will be innocent, but in your freaky world, the cops couldn't even ask you if you have a alibi.
Lets say I'm unpopular in school. To boost my reputation, I decide to blog about how I burned down a house. I got most of the details from $local_news and just made the rest up. Now, they always leave out details. Let'say I fill in $accelerant from last month's CSI. Just so happens that the real criminal got the idea from the same place. They have your claim, they have you knowing an unpublished detail. Will I be convicted?
Whether or not you're convicted will depend on what other evidence they find and how fast you stop being an idiot. Bragging about committing crimes will attract cops - duh! And if you do get convicted, you have only yourself to blame.
What if I have a pic of me testing a gravity bong with tobacco. Should my school (assuming I'm at least 18) be able to suspend me?
In my opinion, no. If it isn't school related, the most they should be able to do is inform your parents, and sometimes not even that.
What about if I post a chat log of me talking about BSDM with a 14yo girl? Just because there is text containing the claim that she is 14 does not, in fact, mean that she is 14...or even a girl. Should that open the door for a child-sex investigation?
Duh, yes, again! Are you really saying that talking about commiting a crime in public isn't a reason to look at whether you've commited a crime or not? Not convict, not arrest, not even probable cause for a warrent, but just investigate?
Who is to say that my blog is not a work of fiction?
You are! If it's fiction, state that clearly (like most sites, TV shows, and movies), and don't be suprised if the cops ask you a few questions when a real crime happens that mimics one of your stories. You don't have to answer, and they can't do anything but watch you (while you're in public) and ask other people questions until they have some sort of solid evidence.
Then why should they troll MySpace looking for, and opening investigations on, stuff that may or may not be true?
So they can find out if it's true or not! DUH!!!
Can restrict blogs to those on a friends list. Can the cops get access to those easily? Or do they need a subpeona or warrant? Does Myspace let cops browse everyone's blogs?
"That was very lucky," Laveroni said. "Anytime you are using an explosive you can cause harm to yourself, harm to witnesses, harm to the person who videotaped it and harm to the structure you are throwing at or setting aflame."
Anyone else have a problem with misguided teens being sent to jail for causing "minimal" damage to an "abandoned" building under the guise of their own "protection."
OK so some stupid prank done by stupid neo-nazi punks which doesn't hurt anybody (physically or financially) went down.. should people really have their whole lives thrown away for it? How about knocking it down to trespassing and destruction of property with a sentence of "how not to be fucking moron" classes and community service?
We've all done stupid things as a kid. I for one was a total fucktard when I was a teen. Now I'm going for my PhD in pharmacology. It'd be a damn shame for kids to not have the same opportunity simply because they decided sniffing glue and being racist was "like totalleh awesome." Kids are kids. Think of the lost potential vs what they've taken from anyone else. They broke a window and made a scorch mark on some pavement, should they have a felonly with "neo nazi" stamped on it when they go to apply for a job several years later?
Latewire
If you're dumb enough to post incriminating material on the internets you deserve to get caught.
This statement is ecchoed by a lot of people nowadays. It says a lot about our society and why some think it is going down the crapper.
If your a programmer you will understand what the problem with it is.
THEREFORE
So basically your saying that intelligent people do not deserve to be caught.
Funny, I always thought that a really could legal system would work like this.
It is the reason I am wary of privacy freaks. To many of them seem to think privacy laws are there to protect criminals from getting caught. Sometimes that may be an unfortunate side-effect of protecting the innocent BUT ultimatly the goal must be to get a system that protects the innocent and ONLY the innocent. As long as we can't have a perfect system I think we should balance the need of protecting the innocent from wrongfull conviction VS the need to be able to convict the guilty.
The whole "it is better to let 10 guilty people go free then have 1 innocent man convicted" is a lot of crap. The current system sure succeeds in letting the 10 guilty go free but we still got innocent men (and women) in jail.
I don't have "the answer" but your crap about framing innocent kids sure as hell isn't it either. If the police finds a video with some kids committing a crime then they should be fully able to use it. Oh and as for forging it. Yeah right. Hang out on image boards for a second. It is filled with people who can tell you every photoshop trick. Shops never last long as evidence.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Yes, i'm a Linux-using geek, but I also use MySpace - that's because most of my REAL LIFE friends are on there too! :-)
http://nathanlindsell.blogspot.com/
And that heritage has been repeatedly invoked here in Southern Rhode Island, where the local communities are looking to restore the 'Brothel Laws' in order to make students' lives miserable. While one-hundred-and-fifty years ago this may have been the reason for these laws, their current incarnation has nothing to do with such a purpose (though the anachronistic name has unfortunately stuck).
All the techniques ever used to make men moral have been themselves thoroughly immoral... (Nietzsche)
Given the prices that Audi charges for their cars and their repairs, and given how poorly their cars do on reliability measures, replacing an engine or two should covered by the warranty even if people choose to fill up with battery acid. (Disgruntled ex-owner.)
If so, how come gangster rappers who often relate their drug businesses in songs don't get busted more often than that? cops don't listen to gangster rap?
You just got troll'd!
Excellent post, man.
It was a no brainer for audi to surf the enthusiast boards. The money saved vs time invested is excellent. Let alone the fact that it IS dishonest to blatently rip off the dealer in that instance... To give equal time, dealers regularly screw car owners by denying warranty when all the owner has is an aftermarket exhaust and the failure is legitimately unrelated to that mod.
Just like the cops in the "myspace" thing - the crimes solved vs time invested is very efficient. Yeah it seems like a waste for a highly trained cop to spend the day surfing - but if he/she can, say, solve 5 crimes in a week, vs the normal 3 - without getting shot at - then fine. Welcome to the 21st century.
Ask any detective, most criminals got caught because of their own hubris (or stupidity) LONG before myspace or facebook. This technology only makes it easier because of the assumption of anonymity.
I was talking to a police detective from AZ when some juveniles escaped from a nearby detention facility - we specifically discussed how hard they'd be to (re)capture. He was utterly unconcerned.
His opinion was that they would be caught very, very quickly. Only a tiny percentage of criminals actually escape and are not reapprehended....because they're criminals. It's not like a hat you choose not to wear; these are dysfunctional personalities that simply cannot comprehend that society does not accept that taking money at gunpoint or raping somone to get your sexual satisfaction is not acceptable. It's absolutely inevitable that they will recommit a crime and be caught again. His concern (and why they work so hard to catch fugitives) was mainly that they didn't hurt anyone in that subsequent crime. The fact of their eventual recapture was almost a dead-on certainty, in itself.
He pointed out that if they DID escape and somehow 'vanish' into the population, becoming a law-abiding citizen for the rest of their lives, then GREAT: that's in a sense what they are trying to accomplish with rehabilitory prison systems.
-Styopa
I have read several articles lately about local cops surfing web sites and catching pedophiles and other criminals. While I commend getting any criminal off the street I wonder if local police cruising the Internet is the best use of their time or tax payer money, since much of what they do is hit or miss anyway.
And as we all know, most parents don't have the knowledge or, in some cases, the backbone to set limits on the use of these sites bu their children.I would suggest that sites like Facebook and myspace create a corp of volunteers to cruise their sites and look for potential problems (criminal activity, risky behavior, etc). They could then report this to the web masters and then they could contact the appropriate law enforcement or social services agency. (I am aware of an employee of such a service trying to solicit a teenager for immoral activity, that's why intervention of real cops and feds should happen)
I know these sites are supposed to be safe places where teens and preteens can relate to each other safely, but so are playgrounds and teen centers. Evil elements find their way in.
How is writing a news story about this a good idea? Kids are stupid, when they pull pranks they sometimes post the info online... why would the cops tell anyone they watch these sites? Unless the theory is that putting their stunts online is motivation for the vandals to commit the crimes in the first place.. but it seems to me kids got into trouble long before myspace came around. I'm also surprised at all the backlash about lack of privacy on myspace. I guess all of you have a lot more to hide than I do. I mean yeah if you're out breaking the law on a nightly basis... probably don't put that info on myspace... but gee I'm 24 I play guitar, if some idiot who doesn't know me has tons of free time to browse myspace finding that out, more power to you.
Those aftermarket chips are so popular - Audi had to have been clued in. I remember reading an article about the 1.8T - that Audio just made the changes to their chip that the aftermarket chip had made - getting a 10-20 HP boost for basically nothing.
...an infinite number of dumbasses replying to each other will eventually produce the complete works of USENET.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Uh, they committed a crime and then posted evidence of the crime to a public forum on the net... at the very least, they should be prevented from breeding under the "too stupid to have children" principle!
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
This seems like going overboard a bit. Most companies rely on people feeling they're a good company. As soon as the customer can't trust a company, that company is going to have problems.
What really surprises me is that Audi is willing to go after a few people that've "fooled the dealer" and in the process generate a lot of bad press for themselves. Who wants to think their car company are a bunch of cops, roaming around public websites just to try to find out if you may have done something to void your warranty? I'm sure Audi will lose a lot more in lost sales than it will with the few people that they caught. It won't stop people from replacing the chip in their car and bringing it in for service either, it'll only stop people from talking about it on audiworld.
AccountKiller
Whats firebombing a desserted hangar got to do with white power, neo-nazism or racism in general, or am I missing something?
Or they could just not give the information to anyone, and when your car broke down due to some undocumented part failing, you'd have to buy a new one.
Sunwalker Dezco for Warchief in 2016
I'll be so bold and say even child porn isn't evidence for anything. But due to this kind of attitude it's a so much better tool to frame somebody, if you ever need it. But then, fortunately, it's also a dangerous weapon that may easily blow up in your own face, if ever it's found on your own computers in preparation to plant it to its final destination...
If there had been pictures posted, again, photoshop can produce really good fakes.
Exactly. Or just adult women who happen to look much younger than they are.
with photoshopped pictures of "you" firebombing a church.
I sure hope the cops are also doing offline detective work before they throw someone in jail.
I sure hope so too. And that they don't disengage their brains when they hear the magic words "child pornography".
Sounds to me like Kim Komando. Is SandyB still in on that action?
"BSD: Free as in speech. Linux: Free as in beer. Windows 10: Free as in herpes." --Man On Pink Corner in #52607549.
Bobcote: I would suggest that sites like Facebook and myspace create a corp of volunteers to cruise their sites and look for potential problems (criminal activity, risky behavior, etc).
Who determines what is a risky behavior? Each person has a different standard that is influenced by their past, their religion, their culture, and their society.
Real Life Example: I see no problem in exploring and learning about religions; I've researched Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Taoism, Satanism, and Wicca, just to name a few. I personally know some hardline extremist christians(They exist) who would call that risky behavior.
So who gets to say what is or is not a risky behavior? Is risk always a bad thing?
Perhaps there is a solution to this situation, but it most certianly will not be a simple one.
"Yeah, but by we know yo mama gives EVERYBODY root privilege..." -jpetts (208163)
Well, that just leads to things like the reputation that import cars used to have for being impossible to find parts for. It used to be true, and so the foreign manufacturers went out of their way to make parts available, and now nobody worries about it.
Would you buy a car that nobody was willing to service?
I own and operate GM-Diesel.com
From the name of it you can figure out what it is about. On the old Ford-Diesel.com (now thedieselstop.com) they had the exact same incident you were describing.
Some people had modded their Powerstroke Diesels and destroyed something. They promptly removed the aftermarket product, took it into the dealer with stock components, and claimed ignorance.
And of course they were discussing their mods on the forums. Some of the dealers wised up and began reading the site on a regular basis and allegedly several warranty claims were denied because of this.
Libertas in infinitum
When you've got a mob of people going one way, the last thing you want to do is use mace/pepper spray/whatever to force the people in front back. That's just begging for people in the middle to get crushed or trampled. It's also begging for people in the pepper sprayed areas to get crushed or trampled in the meyhem.
It's much better to just get out of the way.
Let's remember we're talking about kids at a football game and not a mob of revolutionaries here. There's no reason for cops to take a harmless situation and make it dangerous. At my alma mater, kids got trampled when the cops tried to prevent the inevitable. One girl was nearly killed.
To protect and to serve, indeed.
"Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent