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Zune — $249.99 On Nov. 14
Cubricon writes, "As expected, Microsoft has dropped their price on the Zune in response to Apple's recent iPod updates. Ars Technica has an article that discusses the Zune's use of Microsoft's prepaid 'points' system for songs. Will the masses notice the difference between an iPod and a Zune? Will they want the FM and wireless capabilities?" The Zune lists for $0.99 more than the comparable iPod and songs from the Zune Marketplace will cost just under $0.99.
Wireless. Same amount of space as an iPod. Lame.
Everyone should have a battery powered radio receiver. Hurricanes, Earthquakes, Flooding, Volcanos (like Mt. St. Helens) happen, and you need a way to receive emergency information about which way to run.
As an Apple user, I'm all for this. A REAL competitor in the mp3 player market means that Apple has to "innovate" something cooler in order to stay on the top. I'd like to see a wide-screen iPod by the end of the year. :D
So at around the same time for $250 you can either get an also-ran music player or a brand-new game console. Zounds to me like they are going to lose a lot of tech geek sales.
If I was MS I would drop the price of this thing to $199. I mean, this thing is gonna bomb anyway, minus well lower the price and hope to make more money on the music-selling end of things.
Next MP3 player won't be one of these, I'll get something cheep, like that little jobby that works with a USB drive, which i can then plug into the new generation of car stereos with USB. Hoo Hah!
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Song downloads just under 99 cents? Would that make them 98 cents?
I predict a flood of switchers.
I won't buy a Zune because of the way it looks.
Whichever one improves first will most likely be the one I'll get.
Most people are not "artist" enough to appreciate that "innovative" brown...
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Same price as iPod. Wireless. Lame.
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What OS is on it? I assume it it Windows Mobile.
Can you install 3rd party software on it? If you can install Opera Mini/Mobile on it, I'll probrably get one.
Walmart.com already offers its songs for 88 cents (the songs play on PlayForSure devices), so someone is already undercutting iTMS's prices, but it hasn't made any difference.
-- "I never gave these stories much credence." - HAL 9000
songs from the Zune Marketplace will cost just under $0.99.
At first...
You can't take the sky from me...
When people are asked what they want, they do not say an Mp3 player. They say, "I want an iPod." That alone puts the Zune at a large disadvantage, not to mention all the other things. iPods are trendy, well-known, and easy to see(Look at me!) - so until people start looking at what kind of Mp3 player to buy instead of what version of iPod to buy, the Zune will struggle to find its place in the market, just like everyone else.
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How about one of the manufacturers come out with a user replacable battery. This was a major complaint for the first Ipods, and hasn't been fixed yet. A bigger screen means shorter playtime between charges. That's one feature that would make me choose one over the other. Besides that, they're all comparable.
So at around the same time for $250 you can either get an also-ran music player or a brand-new game console. Zounds to me like they are going to lose a lot of tech geek sales.
Zounds... now why didn't they use that name?
Yeah, the money thing. You've also got new games and videos all coming shortly, in time for the holiday debt encumbering season.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
"Hey, let's offer a player two months from now at the same price as Apple is already selling the iPod at today. Also, let's make sure that our new, unproven propriatary music DRM is completely incompatible with our previous propritary music DRM! That way we get to drive away consumers fearful of unknown technology and piss off our existing music partners to boot!"
Dead on Arrival.
Crow T. Trollbot
Yeah, hearing rhetoric, empty promises and outright lies live over the air while you're up to you ears in alligators would be a heckuva plus.
I can't believe what a turkey the Zune is. Here are 2 reasons right off the bat:
- It only lets you share one song at a time via wi-fi and then only with another Zune player. What's more, even if the song is not DRM'd, it infects that song with DRM so that the recipient can only play the song a maximum of 3 times or for a maximum of 3 days, whichever comes first. So much for Microsoft's wonderful social networking scheme.
- It can't play songs you've already downloaded encoded with Microsoft's own Play For Sure DRM. Dumb. Just plain dumb.
And if including an FM tuner didn't get people to flock to Creative's Zen video pod, why should it be such a hot feature in the Zune? And who the frack thought brown was cool?
the fake Air Jordans from K-Mart back in the day. And when Air Jordans were out of style, K-Mart kept on trying to sell them. You can probably still buy them.
iPod haters were already saying that the market was saturated with iPods and Apple's time was over...so how is Zune going to fare any better? You can't have it both ways. Zune is simply not a compelling product...especially when the iPod is still "hip".
Whether intentional or not, I think it was BRILLIANT that Apple did not release the true video iPod at this last event. The fact that it wasn't released will have many holding off on buying a Zune. Especially with the mystery surrounding the iTV and how the forthcoming iPod will interact with it. If the Zune was really that great, they wouldn't have had to adjust the price. This clearly demonstrates Apple's influence in the marketplace...even over MS.
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Hang on,
the Zune is $249.99. The iPod is $249.00, with $0.99 left over to buy a song with.
Summation 2
but in the US a point is currently 1.25 cents
Um, yeah. I'm not buying into some funky dirka-dirka currency that can fluctuate at the company's sheer will.
From TFA (playmag.com):
But there are a few key differences [from the iPod]: Microsoft plans to use the same transaction system as Xbox Live, its video game console's online service, which will allow consumers to pay for music using prepaid cards they can buy in retail stores -- saving some the hassle of needing to use a credit card.
I can walk into Walmart and buy a prepaid iTunes card with cash. The only I ever "bought" from iTunes was with a code from Pepsi. So please playmag.com, tell me how iTunes requires a credit card again? iTunes already has an allowance system too.
-- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
Just wait until some hapless teenager shares a song with his friend only to find out a couple days later he can't move it off his player. "Dude, I just got Zuned!"
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i think for most companys i.e. apple and microsoft it's all about userbase.. not quality assured products.. i mean common DRM ?? ipod songs wont play on any other music player with cracking, and i have yet to see any portable music player add support for memory upgrades so cusomers dont have to buy a new one everytime they run out of space.
think about..
Read between the lines of this MS developer's post, in which he says "PlaysForSure does not require devices to support only MTP - UMS can be implemented too, but under certain conditions that prevent newbies from transferring content via MTP, switching to UMS and then calling tech support because they can't find/play their content"...
Now re-read that sentence while pondering the notion that Zune will not support PlaysForSure.
This is a Microsoft product. More so than Apple products, less so than Sony products, it's still all about vendor lock-in.
I speculate that Zune will be an MTP (Media Transfer Protocol)-only device. UMS (USB Mass Storage) cannot be supported, because only by eliminating UMS can Microsoft mandate the use of WMP10/11 and the accompanying XP/Vista DRM platform.
People think I'm a bit odd... I have a TON of gadgets, but still don't own an iPod or "popular" MP3 player. The reason: Nobody makes one with both an AM/FM tuner in it. So I still use my Panasonic CD player with MP3 capabilities... as it has an AM/FM tuner in it. I enjoy listening to live baseball (and occasionally other sports) games on AM radio, which is why it's of key importance to me. I realize radio is a secondary feature for a music player, but my stance is simple:
If I'm paying several hundred dollars for a portable player, it should damn well have an FM *AND* AM tuner in it.
Simple as that. Until then, the CD/MP3 player that cost me $50 3 years ago will do just fine.
"No fair, you changed the outcome by measuring it!" - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth
Is if MS somehow finds a way to credit user for all the songs they bought on iTMS.
But, I think a points system could make this a winner for MS and be a way to muscle share away from others or help to get other service providers in a nice sit-up-and-beg stance. eg. Use MSN search and earn points, takes share away from Google. Use IE and earn points. Buy goods from SearsOnline/Amazon/whatever and earn points....
Perhaps thus Zune thing is just a tool to gain some leverage in service space. Could it go as far as: Write a pro-MS letter to EU and earn points?
Engineering is the art of compromise.
98.9 ...with the last digit in tiny superscript, of course.
"No fair, you changed the outcome by measuring it!" - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth
Smart consumers always stay away from a 1st generation product. I would gladly give-up some features for peace of mind. The more the cost of the equipment is, the more you want to stay with a proven vendor.
It's possible for any generation to be plagued with mistakes, so it's best not to be the early adopter.
The introduction of zune forced Apple to lower the price on the iPod.
The iPod is bringing too many people into the Apple store. Microsoft smells blood.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Zune or music credit got bundled with legit copies of Vista... which through the magic of DRM won't be downloadable to an iPod.
...or something sickening like that.
A bit of Slashdot antiquity.
At a time like this the marketplace has already reached saturation. Their target market for the Zune has got to be around %50-%80 of people who already own an iPod. I couldn't imagine these people upgrading to Zune, which gives wireless and FM capabilities for $250. They are basically buying a second iPod and the only increase in value are trivial features that less than %10 of the owners of an iPod would want. I'm also guessing that that same %10 either loves Apple, hates Microsoft, or a fuzzy combination of the two.
Slash-for-Thought
This is nice, but I would rather stick to my good old cassettes then deal with all the DRM.
The government can't save you.
I'm very confused about the choice of brown for a color. Does the shiney brown mean that Microsoft has pioneered a break-through for turd polish?
I might know what I'm talkin' about, but then again, this is Slashdot...
... remove the DRM. That's it. I'd buy one in an instant.
I like the Zune, from what I've read and the pictures I've seen it seems pretty cool! Especially the wireless sharing of files - that's really cool. However, the DRM that the wireless transfers forces on your media is unacceptable.
Any takers on how long it will take to crack the DRM?
Or
Any takers on how long it will take to get Linux running - doing the same things - minus the DRM?
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Sure you could only play one CD at a time, and the battery didn't last that long, but dammit we loved it.
Pity the fool with his uncool walkman -- tape is so 20th century.
Does this thing support Ogg Vorbis? :-/
I hope it does! Maybe we can convince Apple to finally add this codec.
This is worse because if I actually wanted to BUY a song (own forever, burn to CD, etc.) then it only costs $0.79.
Hey everyone, as you know Microsoft has just announced their pricing of not only the player but also the Subscription services available through the Zune Marketplace...
y one-big-news-day-today-for.html
Unfortunately the pricing is incredibly high, and will no doubt hurt the Zune. Think about it...$14.99 a month = $179.88 a year!!! How does Microsoft expect the average user to accept such high prices???
I have a much more in depth look at the issue at my blog, the link is below.
http://zunelicious.blogspot.com/2006/09/okay-ever
Thanx,
-Charlie
www.zunelicious.blogspot.com
Ticket booth woman: Would you like to buy some Itchy and Scratchy Money? ... 'fun.'
Homer: What's that?
Woman: Well it's money that's made just for the park. It works just like regular money, but it's, er
Bart: Do it, Dad.
Homer: Well, OK, if it's fun...let's see, uh...I'll take $1,100 worth.
Homer walks in to see signs advertising that Itchy & Scratchy money is non-negotiable at various booths (e.g., "No I&S money," "We don't take Itchy and Scratchy money," etc).
Homer: "Aw!"
Because Microsoft has billions of dollars to spend on marketing, Creative didn't. It wouldn't surprise me if Microsoft spends more money marketing Zune than they did for Windows 95.
I won't pay 99 for a DRM-riddled piece of music... I will pay a full dollar for a DRM-free piece of music though.
Dad just got a radio with a slot for a USB drive loaded with MP3s. Bye, DVD-A. Bye everything for that matter, because unlike my portable MP3/CD player, this one doesn't skip/slow the music down on VBR MP3 files, and I have to carry significantly less weight. GRR, my new player is only six months old damnit. Thank god I bought it on sale with CompUSA closing 15 stores, and opening 20 more, for 10 bucks.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
So driving/walking to a store to purchase a prepaid card is less of a hassle than typing your credit card # into a form? What are they thinking?
Just yesterday I ran across Brills Content, May 2001. page 123
"We tried out one portable MP3 player that lets you walk around with the equivalent of 150 CDs in your back pocket."
Sweet! I gotta get one of those!
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
Why the hell would I want a Zune when I could get an iPod AND a whole song for the same price M$ is charging? Ripoff!
Just think about it. Suppose you're listening to something good, like Audioslave, and then some asshole sends you a crappy rap song from some hack like 50 Cent. Knowing Microsoft, it will immediately switch to the crappy rap song. And if you happen to like whatever song was sent...sorry, you can only listen to it 3 times. At that point you sell your Zune to some other pawn and buy an iPod.
Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
Why wait? Just buy one of each and encourage them to breed. With any kind of luck you will end up with one or more Zunes that look like iPods and have a cool red/green/blue/yellow colored apple logo printed on the back. You could call them: iZunes.
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
For famliles it may be unattractive.
As I understand the Zune sales model, if you buy a song it's locked to play only on your computer and your Zune is also locked to your computer.
The problem is then families that have multiple computers or multiple zunes. If both sis and bro and mom like the latest snoop-dog tune, they can't buy it once and share it o all their computer's and Zunes. They have to buy one copy per machine/zune. That's freakin' nuts.
Or did I get it wrong. Sorry if I did, since Im itunes for the long haul and don't really care about Zune.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
It means all those songs I ripped with iTunes will play on the Zune. There is no way in hell that I'd buy one if I thought I had to convert to or use their crappy format. This way I can keep on using iTunes for ripping and Zune for playing. The screen also looks far more useful for video content than the iPods. Other than that, the only thing which might put me off a Zune is if I have to use special Windows-only software in order to access or copy content to the device.
I have one of these, of course the 512MB version is now the same price, which wasn't the case when I bought mine a year or so ago.
Still, it does the job, just with more limited storage. It even has an FM tuner that works pretty well.
I just don't understand the need to have several gigs of music copied to yet another device. I keep my music on my harddrive, and on semi-permanant backup CDs (soon to be DVDs), as I do most of my music enjoying from my computer. To me it seems pointless to have a complete copy of that to another device.
The convienence of not having to go to my computer every once in a while to change my music is not worth $200+ to me, sorry. I just don't see the need to always have access to all of my music 100% of the time. If the music gets old while I'm away from my computer, I just turn it off, and *gasp* think my own thoughts and reflect on myself. I really think that music has become a bit too pervasive in many peoples' lives in today's society. I mean, if noone has any time to hear themselves think over the sound of constant music, then how will people ever reflect on themselves and grow emotionally?
But, then again, everyone else has an iPod or some such, so I guess they must have good reason for shelling out such money. I can't think of any that would make me pay so much though...
Maybe I've missed something though. Thoughts?
Being in the UK doesn't change physics! FM Radio waves only transmit over a relatively limited distance from a transmitter. If your nearest two or three transmitters power out, you'll still be able to pick up a MW(AM) (citywide) or LW (national) signal from the nearest transmitter.
I am Darth Macintosh. Fight me. Fear me. Give yourself to the Mac side.
...they are very nice, I have two of them, although for day to day use I have a plug in sangean multiband. I've been meaning to pick up one of their wind up flashlights they have now, too. http://www.freeplayenergy.com/
I wish they would make a laptop. It needs the clockwork deal, plus a remote solar panel you could stick in the window. Something like the OLPC but for adults, albeit simiar type specs and idea, low power, all solid state, self powered, etc.
I have one somewhere that probably would work if I could find it to put fresh batteries in it.
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Actually, in an urban enviroment with modern (western) building codes most earthquake deaths are a result of falling debris outside. Bricks off of buildings, window panes, etc.
Can't ANYONE see the significance here? You can exchange songs *wirelessly* with this player. Various demagogues have been predicting that when there is a device that allows you to swap songs with trusted friends in a decentralized manner, copyright will become irrelevant. If someone hacks into the device, installs Linux, and reverse engineers the wireless transfer, (a tall order, mind you), anyone will be able to fileshare. Today, you have to know a thing or two about the Internet and Bittorrent and you risk being caught. How will the RIAA prosecute kids running around with modded Zunes? The only barrier to this happening was the production of hardware, and if the Zune actually reaches critical mass, the hardware will be ubiquitous. Mind you, the software is a hard problem, but if that happens, it will be the end of copyright as we know it.
If someone drops a fort on Will, he makes a reflex save.
Contradicting my earlier comment that the above is "obvious", now that I think of it, how do we know that it wasn't Zune that caused Apple to pre-emptively lower its own price to $250 in the first place? In which case, your question would be, "If iPod is so great, why did Apple have to adjust its price to compete with the upcoming Zune?"
The sequence of events:
Microsoft announces Zune, but does not disclose a price. It's speculated that the price will be $300.
Apple then lowers the price of its 30GB iPod to $250. It's speculated that this is done to mess with Microsoft's planned price for Zune. Meaning that it was done as a reaction to the announcement of Zune's impending release.
Microsoft then officially announces a $250 price. It's speculated that this is lowered from the initial speculated price of $300 as a reaction to Apple's lowering the price of iPod, which was done in reaction to the announcement of Zune's impending release.
It seems to me that they're influencing each other, as it should be for a competitive marketplace.
-- "I never gave these stories much credence." - HAL 9000
While it is widely reported that the zune won't work with microsoft's own "Plays For Sure" I haven't heard anything about if it will work with the 360. I don't own a 360, but I'm curious because when the 360 came out they made a big deal about how you could plug an ipod into it and play the songs on it. It would be pretty interesting if they didn't bother giving their own player the same capability.
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I avoid FM radio like the plague most of the time, but it's not quite as bad as you're painting it.
ClearChannel is the biggest player in the radio market, and now that there are no FCC impediments, they usually own multiple channels in a given market. They arguably wield monopoly power in some markets, but they don't even control half the market.
Personally I think the FCC screwed the pooch when it decided to do away with limitations on media ownership. That ship has long since sailed, though. Clear Channel wouldn't have achieved its dominance under the old FCC rules. At the same time I wouldn't be surprised if they started losing marketshare once competitors start to figure out how to provide listeners something better (which really shouldn't be difficult, given the crap Clear Channel churns out). Dominance doesn't equal monopoly.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
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There is one real competitor to ITunes. Rhapsody...That's what the Zune site will look like. You don't need to buy a song to listen of it (more than 30 secs). Audio on demand...what a concept. It's like having the largest CD library available at your fingertips. And with a "ON the GO" subscription, you can download the music and take it with you. It seems ITunes success is solely due to the zombies who use ITunes with their Ipods and can't seem to learn how to use another application (ie. Rhapsody, MusicMatch, Media Monkey). Once again, AAPL is using hardware to lock in their user base to their own sw and apps.
In my day, we didn't have any fancy wi-fi, and we LIKED IT!!! seriously, i know you guys hate microsoft, but this looks like a nice player. i purchased a zen micro 2 years ago, in part because it had an FM tuner. its on the fritz and i will seriously consider buying this. why? wireless transfer pc to mp3 player. that is worth money to me. DRM is a non-issue to me. i'm not sharing any music, don't know care what kind of player anybody around me has. also, don't underestimate the market for devices like this. many people are on their 3rd iPod or more. people like toys, they like to upgrade. this is NOT a saturated market by any means.
Suppose you're listening to something good, like Audioslave
I can't suppose that. There is no sound that is both "good" and "like Audioslave".
Yeah and when you stop paying Rhapsody you lose all your music.
Besides haven't you read the latest reports? The majority of music on MP3 players doesn't come from ANY online store. It comes from people's CDs.
Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
So if the /. article is a proper summary of the MS advertising, then they're competing on what - price? They're a few cents cheaper and that's it?
Sorry, I didn't buy my Mac because it was cheaper than a PC, and I don't think many iPod users had price as their primary factor, either.
Maybe once they start including a "free" Zune with every new computer sold - you know, the same way that MS Windos is "free" on all OEM machines - that might work.
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I can transfer music wirelessly vie BlueTooth (albeit at 40kBps). I can store almost 1 GB of music, which is not a lot, but adequate. I can download podc... eh.. netcasts via 3G internet on the go. I am sure I can buy music wirelessly too (some mobile shops exist in Norway), but I don't like DRM:) The music automatically fades out when I receive a call. I can listen to FM radio with RDS (station names). I can share music without DRM using BlueTooth, or infrared. It has an alarm clock. I can't believe it's Sony. It's the future!
Microsoft DRM is currently causing Sky in the UK to not honour their contracts with their broadband users. And MS want me to trust me to use them as a music supplier?
By the time they did something in the Windows area they have saturated the market, aptly described by one of the posts above in the thread.
If things were panning out so great they would have not moved to Windows and the nightmare it is to support 2 completely different platforms.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Sterotypes are just that.
I personally are as comfortable listening to a good opera or watching a football match.
Sterotypes are for people without a sense of adventure.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
So, the Zune wants to compete on price against the market leader, while adding hardware (WiFi, plus, to feed it, a larger battery)?
I know the company attempting this has deep pockets, but wouldn't it open them up to price dumping allegations? Or are Apple's margins that high? (Alternate view: is Apple's position that strong that you have to both add features and compete on price to get any chance to gain a market?)
Thanks for the write up on the state of FM in US.
Being from outside US & owning a iPod, I couldnt quite grasp how a player loved by so many actually doesnt offer FM.I thought that was a basic feature required.
Your post threw some light on why they dont bother about FM.
Wincopy
Seriously. For the same price I can get an iPod *and* a song on iTunes to play on it. It doesn't even have Apple's innovative controller.
Strange... Check out the pictures at the product description at the amazon page for Zune... The colors on this one (supposedly the white version) look quite different from the Zune in the middle of this one! What's up?
The AACS key is NOT 0xF606EEFD628B1CA427BEA93A9CA9773F
"Yeah and when you stop paying Rhapsody you lose all your music"
As a value proposition to me, $15USD per month for access to all of their music library is a very good deal.
Here's why:
1. It's more content than one could possibly manage and store physically.
2. It is constantly updated with new releases.
3. I enjoy listening to music far more than managing content files on my systems.
I have an extensive CD collection and have ripped a good portion of it into mp3s. But the amount of time I have spent managing the files has taken too much effort. The backups required to preserve your efforts and the inevitable data integrity problems with file corruption make me think this task is a Sysyphean endeavor.
Owning stuff (having physical possession of it) is not all it is made out to me, especially when one is speaking about large catalogs of music or video.
The Zune comes in brown...
er...dumb question.
does it play ogg ?
--meh--
Ok, maybe I'm jaded, but this Zune device is going to have a Microsoft-based OS running this thing, right?
Anyone here ever have a Microsoft OS freeze on them? I would wager that this device blue-screens or its equivalent more often than any iPod locks up.
I have no data backing my claim, just each manufacturer's reputation.
Praying for the end of your wide-awake nightmare.
What are you doing that managing the files is such a herculean task? I have about 25GB of MP3s and everything on my main computer is backed up to an external hard drive on a daily basis. These are just basic sound nerd/geek computing principles. If you have everything on your computers backed up then what do you have to worry about? And in about 5 years I've had maybe 3 MP3s go corrupt.
Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
The problem is that the Zune isn't providing wireless, it's providing a Microsoft-restricted DRM'ed version of wireless on a tightly controlled platform. And that, I don't have any use for.