PS3 Pre-Orders Came and Went

Warlock7 writes "Well, it's official. The pre-orders have begun ... and mostly ended. I just got mine ordered and four hours later there are already units on eBay. Some acutions have already gone north of $1000 USD. The guys at EBGames told me that the most units going to any one store was 36 and that there were an average of 8 units being distributed to each store. The one I went to reported that they were going to be getting a total of 16 units. They waited this long to take pre-orders because they wanted to be sure that they weren't going to get burned like they did for the XBox 360 launch." The reports from across the internets are varied, with long lines netting nothing for some, and others reaping the sweet rewards.

Comments

Oooooh big fucking deal

[jbrader]

I have a better idea. I'll wait to get one (if I bother at all) and then when I do all the bugs will have worked out, there will be more games available, it will cost less I won't have to wait in any ureasonably long lines and I won't have helped fuel Sony's ridiculous hype machine.

Re:Oooooh big fucking deal

[Anonymous Coward]

Boo. I bet you paid less than $50 for your Gmail invitation, too. :)

Re:Oooooh big fucking deal

[twistedsymphony]

Yeah but don't you want to buy one to cook up some tasty low-fat Sony brand burgers!

Re:Oooooh big fucking deal

[eln]

I paid $500 for my gmail invite, but it was worth it, because now I have 50 of them that I can sell to other people. I call it my retirement fund.

Re:Oooooh big fucking deal

[jbrader]

I hadn't heard about the grill feature, I retract my previous statement. And what's all this about paying for gmail invites? I didn't pay anything.

Re:Oooooh big fucking deal

[eln]

I cannot believe this got modded informative. If anyone actually wants to fund their retirement this way, let me know...I have plenty of invites I can sell them. I cannot guarantee future market value though, so there is a tiny bit of risk.

Re:Oooooh big fucking deal

[Masami Eiri]

Back when GMail was new, invites were hard to come by, and were often sold by those in posession of them. Now, everyone's got 100 self-replenishing invites. The market value kind of bottomed out.

Re:OMFG What Will Wii Do?

[Bobartig]

If only mario galaxy was a launch title...

Heh...

[Otter]

After hearing chatter about PS3 pre-orders at GameStop in #ps2 on efnet, I checked your site in order to see if it was true. I figured since it was my night off, I might as well waste it camping out for a few hours...Once I got to my nearest Gamestop, I saw there was only one guy camping...He had gotten there at 5 a.m.

Now there's a gamer -- standing in line at GameStop from 6:30 to 9 qualifies as "camping out".

Re:Heh...

[jayhawk88]

Now there's a gamer -- standing in line at GameStop from 6:30 to 9 qualifies as "camping out".

In the guys defense, that's probably about how long the battery in his PSP was good for.

Re:Heh...

[zippthorne]

Heh.. freakin' campers.. buncha noobs..

Re:Heh...

[drinkypoo]

Now there's a gamer -- standing in line at GameStop from 6:30 to 9 qualifies as "camping out".

In his defense, camping in front of an electronics store on next-gen-console release day is probably a lot more dangerous than camping in any established campsite you can name...

Re:Heh...

[Leviance]

Isn't it the point that he didnt really need to camp out at all?

Re:Heh...

[iotashan]

Camping in the same spot for nearly 3 hours... he's probably just afk.

Re:Heh...

[kinglink]

The parent was refering to the fact that people who "camp out" for stuff usually are talking 24-48 hours waits infront of a movie theatre, in a walmart, or where ever.

Re:Heh...

[rifter]

"After hearing chatter about PS3 pre-orders at GameStop in #ps2 on efnet, I checked your site in order to see if it was true. I figured since it was my night off, I might as well waste it camping out for a few hours...Once I got to my nearest Gamestop, I saw there was only one guy camping...He had gotten there at 5 a.m."

Now there's a gamer -- standing in line at GameStop from 6:30 to 9 qualifies as "camping out".

Too right! after all clearly the guy going there at 5am was a camper, but what the commenter left out was that *he* was a loot ninja just waiting to strike :D.

Re:Heh...

[Karma Farmer]

Actually, "camp out" means to "camp" "outdoors".

The proper term to use for standing in line three hours is "standing in line."

Re:Heh...

[KDR_11k]

Yes but when it's long enough people call it camping out to emphasize the timespan. And of course at that point they usually do bring tents.

Re:Heh...

[zippthorne]

It was a reference to the FPS-gamer declaration that "camping" i.e. hanging out in one spot for a long time waiting for people to eventually walk into your sights, is a "newbie" tactic, despite its combat effectiveness. or perhaps because of it. People who use the word, "n00b" typically define a very narrow subset of any game as, "real" and whine about other players using perfectly valid weapons and/or tactics.

It used to be that maps were actually pretty big, with lots of nooks and crannies in which to hide, so 'camping' would prolong games that were really meant to be short, but the age of the console has done away with vast interesting maps and replaced them with small, theme-park maps with strange invisible borders, close fighting, and little-to no cover. "camping' is now pretty much impossible. It was never a very good tactic. You were always exposed to people who knew the maps slaging the hidey holes before walking by. Why "experienced players" would complain about easy kills instead of just training their victims not to be so easy to kill is remains a mystery.

Re:Heh...

[Jinky Williams]

Well, my friend and I are going to "camp out" in front of Best Buy for the week prior to the Wii's release.

Re:Heh...

[MBGMorden]

Eh, I doubt it's the same in this case, but some people camp just to camp. I love Star Wars as much as the next techie, but when I heard about people getting in line like 4 months early to get into the Star Wars prequels the only word that came to mind was "idiots". They waited 4 months to rush in. I was able to drive to my local theater the afternoon the movie was released and just buy a ticket. I saw it on the first day of release just like they did, sans months of waiting in line.

Forget the PS3...

[__aaclcg7560]

I'm still waiting for pre-orders on the Nintendo Wii!

Re:Forget the PS3...

[Fozzyuw]

Ha! Me too! I saw the PS3 email and went over to GameStop and said, hey, you guys taking Wii pre's yet? No? Bastards! Oh, here's $5 I'd like to reserve another Wii game. =P

Re:Forget the PS3...

[Warlock7]

I've heard that they will be available on Friday...

Re:Forget the PS3...

[AuMatar]

EB said end of next week when I stopped in Saturday.

Re:Forget the PS3...

[hords]

I heard this Friday as well, hopefully true

Re:Forget the PS3...

[steveo777]

Source?

Re:Forget the PS3...

[Leviance]

Wii preordering starts next week :)

Its silly to get a console on release

[tont0r]

How many consoles have we gone through that had problems on release? Everything from the DS Lite cracking, to the xbox controllers being the size of a small gorilla, to the xbox360 over heating, to faulting dvd roms of the ps2. Its almost at the point where its guaranteed to have a flaw in it. And i feel worse for people who buy it on ebay at an extra $500/pop.

And with all these horrid rumors of design flaws with the ps3, its more of a reason to just wait it out. Same with the Wii. I refuse to believe that 6 months down the line, they are going to come up with a much more accurate wiimote than the have now.

Re:Its silly to get a console on release

[HappySqurriel]

Personally, I have only ever had a single problem with a Nintendo made product and that was I got a disc-read error on my launch Gamecube about 8 months after I bought it. My dealings with Nintendo's customer service about my broken Gamecube were so good that I have no worries about buying a Wii at launch; essentially, Nintendo just told me where to drop off the Gamecube and they shipped a refurbished Gamecube overnight to their Depot so I only had 1 day without my gamecube.

The PS3, on the other hand, I would be worried about mainly because I have had bad experiences with Sony's customer service in the past and the PS3 has a first generation optical disc drive in it; my memories of first generation CD-RW and DVD/DVD-RW drives tells me that the most you can really expect from a drive like this is (about) 12 months of usage. I never want to have another system (like my PS2) where I own it for 13 months and have to go buy a brand new system (at full price) because of a disc-read error.

Re:Its silly to get a console on release

[latchiko]

I am of the same opinion .... wait until they release a new revision, if it is better that the old one then buy one, if the old ones have features that you liked but are no longer present in the new revision then buy an older one off ebay

Also of course there is the different HD player formats which may produce a winner and a loser and I would prefer to have a player that actually has media readily available to play

Re:Its silly to get a console on release

[Osty]

How many consoles have we gone through that had problems on release? Everything from the DS Lite cracking, to the xbox controllers being the size of a small gorilla, to the xbox360 over heating, to faulting dvd roms of the ps2. Its almost at the point where its guaranteed to have a flaw in it. And i feel worse for people who buy it on ebay at an extra $500/pop.

Wow, I must be blessed! My launch-day (actually week-before-launch-day, non-import) DS Lite still hasn't cracked its hinges. I liked the old big Xbox controllers (and the comparison is to an eight hundred pound grizzly bear). My launch window Xbox 360 has never overheated, and my purchased-pre-owned-yet-still-old PS2 has never had DVD issues. I did go through several original Xbox consoles due to bad DVD drives, but that wasn't in your list of "Bad Things That Happen At Launch".

Re:Its silly to get a console on release

[Fozzyuw]

Given the fact the Wii isn't trying to make a small super-computer, they're likely to have a better fail rate than other systems who try to pack in the 'cutting edge' technology. Nintendo's controllers pretty 'cutting edge' in that regard, but it's a hell of a lot easier to buy a new controller than a new system since the later will likely be sold-out for a while at launch.

As long the the main unit works, all is good. There is, after all, more than just the motion-sensing, that make the Wii exciting, though motion-sensors are the highest 'buzz' feature. Graphics will still be better, you can still download NES, SNES, N64 games, play games via Wi-Fi, play the latest fun and quality game franchises like Zelda, Mario, Metroid, et al. with the 'standard' controller.

Cheers,
Fozzy

Re:Its silly to get a console on release

[drinkypoo]

to faulting dvd roms of the ps2

If I were looking for early-adopter flaws, I'd select some that have actually been fixed. Even slimline PS2s suffer more drive failures than any other optical-drive console I've ever used. Someday when all the PS2s have failed because their drives died, you'll still be able to get a working Sega CD from a flea market.

Re:Its silly to get a console on release

[drinkypoo]

I second the emotion on the subject of the original US Xbox controller. I have gigantic hands and the little controller is poop, it fatigues my hands to use it because I have to manipulate it with my fingertips, or else set it on my lap and poke at it with tweezers. I'm glad Microsoft brought out the smaller controller to shut up all the tiny-handed people out there, but I'm sad that they discontinued the old one... but then again, I'm glad that most people like the smaller controller better, because it means you can always find supplies of the original controllers used. Today, I have two large and three small pads (always have a spare!) and I use the small ones only for occasional emulated games that work better with a smaller controller due to some idiotic control scheme - and there are many like this.

Re:Its silly to get a console on release

[Volante3192]

I am of the same opinion .... wait until they release a new revision, if it is better that the old one then buy one, if the old ones have features that you liked but are no longer present in the new revision then buy an older one off ebay

Incidentally, one problem I could see with this is what if the older feature is in high demand, especially if it makes custom modding easier, like a certain BIOS revision or a motherboard revision that's not layered in an inch of epoxy.

Whether or not something like that tips the balance on ebay, I couldn't really say, but it's a thought.

Re:Its silly to get a console on release

[DrXym]

Anyone who buys a console on day 1 needs their head examined. Aside from bragging rights, or sell the thing on ebay, what is the point? If a console is THAT GOOD, it will be just as good a few months down the road. Then you can make an informed purchase decision in the absence of hype and with a good chance of getting a replacement if the thing turns out to be broken.

This applies equally to the Wii, or any other shiny overhyped piece of kit (e.g. anything made by Apple). Never buy version 1.0 of anything

Re:Its silly to get a console on release

[steveo777]

My brother has been through 3 PS2's and an XBox. A friend of mine; 2 PS2's and is awaiting his third 360. I've only purchased Nintendo stuff. Haven't had any problems so far and everything I own save the original NES was purchased at launch. (My SNES has even turned greenish on some pieces of plastic, but plays fine). I don't have any qualms about getting a release model of the Wii.

Re:Its silly to get a console on release

[creepynut]

My brother has been through 3 PS2's and an XBox. A friend of mine; 2 PS2's and is awaiting his third 360.

Ever think this is where they made the money?

1. Sell consoles
2. Wait for consoles to break down around the same time manufacturing costs drop
3. Profit!

Re:Its silly to get a console on release

[Cadallin]

While you may think me deranged, I have a fair amount of faith in Nintendo as a company. So far this hasn't failed me. Nintendo has an excellent reliability track record, even taking into account DS lite problems. They almost always get it right the first time, and when they don't, they fix it. Also, I want to play Twilight Princess + a half dozen other release titles, and if my monkey instincts make me want to play them sooner, rather than later, well, what can I say?

Re:Its silly to get a console on release

[w1ll0w]

The wii has a first generation proprietary optical drive.

Re:Its silly to get a console on release

[Aladrin]

Crap. I was hoping to never have to have that examination.

I'm going to buy a Wii at launch. My thought is, at $250, I'll have that much fun in the first 3 months before it breaks/burns down the house/explodes/etc. And then I'll buy one that has been 'fixed' a few months later and everything will be good.

At $600? Hell no. I didn't even buy a 360 until a month or 2 ago. And I still worry like crazy that it'll overheat and die.

Re:Its silly to get a console on release

[Reaperducer]

Nintendo has an excellent reliability track record, even taking into account DS lite problems. They almost always get it right the first time, and when they don't, they fix it.

Whenever I heard "Nintendo" I think about how all of my friends had to constantly blow on their NES carts to get them to work.

Re:Its silly to get a console on release

[nullChris]

Actually, they are using cutting edge technology on their console, except, as stated in some recent interviews on the official site, they are utilizing these advances for their low cooling requirements and power requirements.

Re:Its silly to get a console on release

[Cadallin]

And? Electrical contacts get dirty, what's your point?

More telling, in my opinion, is the number of original (>20 year old) NES machines that can still be made to work perfectly with just this trick. Your PS1 still work? How about your friends'? Hell, how many people do you know that have had to replace a faulty PS2?

Granted the NES design could have been better (by "better" I mean a top loading cartridge, like the SNES and the famicom in Japan). However, the NES was designed that way in order to get it into stores in the USA. They couldn't build it correctly, or stores wouldn't have carried it. In reality the solution that they came up with didn't compromise the system too badly (see point about original NES's still working), and the system survived that flaw to become an enormous commercial success.

Re:Its silly to get a console on release

[Anonymous Coward]

It uses dvd roms. It just doesn't play dvd movies. It's not proprietary at all.

Re:Its silly to get a console on release

[kujanomiko]

So did the GC. Do you see anyone complaining?

Re:Its silly to get a console on release

[Meagermanx]

...but they're losing money on the XBOX, XBOX 360, and PS3 hardware. So if it breaks, and you buy a new one, it's against Sony and Microsoft's best interests.

Re:Its silly to get a console on release

[Yvan256]

So if it breaks, and you buy a new one, it's against Sony and Microsoft's best interests.

Except their "biggest marketshare" statistics.

Re:Its silly to get a console on release

[grammar fascist]

And? Electrical contacts get dirty, what's your point?

Turns out it's not so much dust as electrical contacts losing their spring.

Re:Its silly to get a console on release

[MemoryDragon]

Actually my normal ds is like a tank, and the ds light is a solid piece of hardware, I put it regualily into a jacked without any scratch so far, no broken hinges (although I have heard several north american shipments had the problem) etc... Nintendo is known for pushing out really solid hardware, and the ds and ds light are no exception.

Re:Its silly to get a console on release

[DrXym]

You presume that there are enough games to have 3 months worth of fun, that the kit works faultlessly, that the controller is as good as the hype, that the online services (are there any?) don't crash under the load, that the Wii is going to be "better" subjectively than the other consoles. If it's that much fun then it will be that much fun in a few months time when there might be a few more titles. Meanwhile as you say, you've got an XBox360 so I assume there are plenty of titles popping out around Christmas for that (e.g. Gears of War) to keep you going.

If you have a 360 I don't see the point of getting a PS3 as well since most of the port / franchise games will play almost identically on both. But if I had neither and assuming the PS3 provides the goods, then I wouldn't have any objection to paying $500-600 for something which is far more than just a games console.

Re:Its silly to get a console on release

[Aladrin]

You have a good point, but I -do- expect the Wii to have a few months of fun for me off the bat. There's like 5 or 6 launch titles that I'm interested in enough that I'll probably buy them right away. Or 'ask' for them for christmas from my family. Heh. I'm even looking forward to Elebits. Besides, it's not like I'll be only playing the Wii's games for those 3 months. There'll be plenty of games for other consoles in that time. (And I'm probably going to buy a few older GC games that I miss or never played.)

As for the controller... Even if it was pretty bad, I'll like it. My favorite game accessory of all time was the powerglove. I've actually got scars from it because I wouldn't quit playing when it started chewing on my knuckles. (They're small, though.) It would have to be absolutely worthless for me to hate it, and the E3 event showed it was pretty good.

As for ps3... Yeah. I'm a sucker for games, and I'll end up buying a PS3 when it finally gets a game that I can't resist... That'll be the first FF game, or Suikoden if they have another like Suik3, etc. But if there's a port of it for the 360, I'll choose the 360 first. Why? Gamerpoints. I'm a collector at heart, and the points system really draws me in. It's stupid, but it matters to me.

Re:Its silly to get a console on release

[Anonymous Coward]

It helps that one stat but not actual game sales - any publisher will go primarily on sales numbers when deciding what platform to go for.

Re:Its silly to get a console on release

[steveo777]

Actually no profits. Neither of them actaully paid for their systems. The only cases where one should have been paid for, my brother bought a PS2 at Wal-Mart, switch the S/N sticker and returned it as a dead unit. The XBOX was swapped out by a Gamestop employee who was quiting his job or getting fired for like behavior. Oh well. Not that I care if Sony or MS gets screwed out of some money. May not be moral, but they're doing it to themselves and the retailers don't have to pay for it.

Re:Its silly to get a console on release

[Yvan256]

Publishers will look at consoles marketshare when deciding what platform to go for. If the Gamecube sold 100 units (100 users), the Xbox sold 150 units (100 users, 50 of which had to buy a new Xbox because their old one just died*) and the PS2 sold 300 units (100 users, all of which had to buy a new PS2 twice because their 1st and 2nd ones died*), they'll think the Xbox and PS2 have more marketshare than the Gamecube.

Selling crap really does wonders for both Microsoft and Sony.

* All statistics have been pulled out of thin air and may not represent actual console failure rates. All I know is that I know a lot of PS2 owners and a most Xbox owners have had problems with their console(s).

Re:Its silly to get a console on release

[creepynut]

Did you miss #2? Wait for consoles to break down around the same time manufacturing costs drop

Re:Its silly to get a console on release

[twistedsymphony]

Except that they don't just look at the user base but more importantly the attach rate, which will tell you how many games have been sold per consoles sold. If Sony has sold 300 units and has an attach rate of 2 and Nintendo has sold only 150 units but has an attach rate of 5, the Nintendo system will probably be more desirable because it means the gamers are more likely to buy new games.

Selling replacement consoles might drive up the user base statistics but it proportionally drives down the attach rate statistics, which are equally as important when considering the market.

Re:Its silly to get a console on release

[Yvan256]

Well, I didn't knew game companies looked at it like that, though it makes perfect sense.

But for the general public, the artificial installed user base from dead consoles still helps Microsoft and Sony. When you see "50 millions PS2 sold world-wide", it's not false advertisting but most people will (wrongly) deduce there is 50 millions PS2 owners world-wide. We'll keep hearing "Hey dude, there's only 10 millions Gamecube owners, we're 5 times as many as you" when in fact there's only maybe two or three times as many PS2 owners.

Oh well, that's what marketing and advertising is all about, I guess.

Re:Its silly to get a console on release

[empvirus]

I've got about 4 or 5 different friends that have gone through two PS2's at least. I can't say I've ever gone through a system myself, though I've never owned anything other then SEGA/Nintendo. I guess it goes to show you that sometimes the simple designs are the best.

Re:Its silly to get a console on release

[saboola]

To follow that comment this weekend I pulled my NES that I got when I was 13 out of a storage bin in the garage, along with my light zapper and duck hunt. Plug in the RCA to a standard def TV I have in the bedroom, and used a little bit of alcohol on the NES cart to get a clean contact edge. Wouldn't you know it, the damn thing booted right up! I played duck hunt for a good hour. 17 years later my NES still works. I love Nintendo, and cant wait to buy a Wii.

Re:Its silly to get a console on release

[Swanktastic]

More telling, in my opinion, is the number of original (>20 year old) NES machines that can still be made to work perfectly with just this trick.

All electronics manufactured in this era tend to have longer lives than electronics manufactured today. A TV manufactured in 1985 probably still works today, whereas one manufactured yesterday will probably only last you 10 years.

Re:Its silly to get a console on release

[rtechie]

By "proprietary" hen means that the wii will come with a "dual format" drive capable of playing Gamecube discs, standard DVDs, and presumably mini-DVDs as well into a SLOT-LOADING drive. This (to my knowledge) has not been implemented before and common sense should tell you why. I'm assuming that you won't be required to use some sort of ring attachment to use the Gamecube discs in the wii.

Re:Its silly to get a console on release

[rtechie]

I have gigantic hads and I prefer the controller "s", the small XBOX controller, because it has round buttons in a reasonable layout (diamond), the white and back buttons are better placed, and it's but better triggers. If there was a ginormous controller with a decent layout I would probably use that, but I haven't found a 3rd-party controller that meets my needs. I also have yet to find a decent XBOX wireless controller (the Logitech one is OK, but mine broke after 60 days). Oddly enough, I've founf a number of good wireless PS2 controllers.

Really over $1,000?

[Junta]

At the time of my looking at it, sure amounts were at 1,000 bucks or higher, but that was the starting bid and no one has yet bid on it. Not saying it won't happen, but at the time of story posting it is misleading.

Re:Really over $1,000?

[CaymanIslandCarpedie]

Here is at least one completed and seems sucessful acution for a PS3 for $1,250.

Re:Really over $1,000?

[AKAImBatman]

Someone has bid on the $1,000 one now, although the bidder might be a deadbeat (based on his feedback). There's also this preorder that sold for a $1599 Buy It Now.

It seems that a fool and his money are soon parted. :)

Re:Really over $1,000?

[HappySqurriel]

Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me too much if that was a Sony employee buying a "Playstation 3 Premium System Pre-Order" from himself. The only thing that Sony really has left that could possibly move the Playstation 3 at $500/$600 is pure hype; all the games are announced with all the features known the only thing they can add is an irrational need for someone to buy a PS3.

Re:Really over $1,000?

[drinkypoo]

People were paying almost that much for consoles in the previous generation, and inflation has marched on since then. A fool and his money are soon parted, regardless of how much money he might have - it's the amount of foolishness that determines how long it takes, not the amount of money.

Re:Really over $1,000?

[hords]

Heck, I saw some PS2 auctions go for more than $2000. I kicked myself for opening my system after I discovered that insanity.

Pre-orders are a scam

[The_Pariah]

GameStop now takes your $100, puts it in the bank, gets mad interest off of your cash and another 400,000 reservations, and you're left with nothing. Instead of just having customers pay when the product is physically here.... Sorry, but I want a product when I put cash down.

Re:Pre-orders are a scam

[Vokkyt]

Close, pre-orders are hype-machines. The fewer machine they put out means the easier it is to declare that all pre-orders sold out, and the bigger hype they can get from envious users who want to be able to claim that they have a PS3 pre-ordered as well. Think about it; would there be that much hype over the damn things if Sony released like 3.0 million world wide and every store had ~ 50 or so to shell out to people? (more in cities with higher populations) Hell, in that scenario, people would be more surprised about the fact that they actually had enough units on release to satisfy the initial rush. In that scenario, people would care about the release for about a week, then be busy playing because most everyone who was going to get one would have one already.

Re:Pre-orders are a scam

[ChildeRoland]

The entire continent is getting 400k units. GameStop/EB is not going to get them all. Best Buy, Circuit City, WalMart, and more will be selling them without preorders.

It's not really a scam to me. The way I see it, I am forfeiting the interest from that $100 in exchange for a) waiting outside in the chilly October cold rather than the frigid November cold and b) not having to wait for more than 24 hours outside.

Re:Pre-orders are a scam

[thefirelane]

The product launch is about a month away, you put down $100. Lets say you could get 4.40% (currently what I get on savings). ($100*.044)/12 = .36 So you are paying a .36 "fee" to be certain to get a system. Ripoff? hardly.

Re:Pre-orders are a scam

[Warlock7]

First, EB isn't getting 400k units, they're getting a percentage of the 400k available.

They're also not making that much sure they'll make some interest, but it's less than 45 days away, it's not like they've had the money for months. They're certainly not making "mad interest" as you suggest.

On top of that, if the item doesn't show up, you get your deposit back.

Re:Pre-orders are a scam

[Jeff DeMaagd]

I agree, it's not as if holding onto such small sums of money for such a short time becomes a major income generator. Even if it's 12% APY, that's $1/month per downpayment.

Re:Pre-orders are a scam

[drinkypoo]

It's not really a scam to me. The way I see it, I am forfeiting the interest from that $100 in exchange for a) waiting outside in the chilly October cold rather than the frigid November cold and b) not having to wait for more than 24 hours outside.

Or c) not being a rabid fanboy and waiting until the console becomes more available and there are more games, and perhaps some issues have been fixed.

I mean, it's okay to be a fanboy, but actually getting in line to suck Sony off before they even unzip seems awfully... eager. This is the company that gets a gleam in its eye whenever it gets a chance to fuck its customers in the ass. This is the company that has to take the bulk of the blame for the demise of Sega, and they did that by out and out lying about the specs of the PS2 when they knew it was pure bullshit. And now you're preparing to tithe to them again? Takes all kinds, I guess.

Re:Pre-orders are a scam

[Jeff DeMaagd]

I think waiting in line for a game console is pretty lame anyway. There's not a whole lot I'd consider waiting in line to get.

Re:Pre-orders are a scam

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

"Sorry, but I want a product when I put cash down."

That's fine for you, but if they charge a deposit, it makes it harder for people to hoarde systems. (That and it helps ensure the people reserving are absolutely serious about it.)

Re:Pre-orders are a scam

[Keeper]

That would be great if there was actually a guarantee that you will get a system on launch day. They guarantee nothing.

Re:Pre-orders are a scam

[cptgrudge]

I've only waited like that one time, for the midnight release of Halo 2, and it was inside. Probably not the best use of my time, but really, it was more about the camaraderie with the other people in line with me. The talking about video games, playing GBAs, and the anticipation, rather than getting the product itself.

Re:Pre-orders are a scam

[kfg]

It's your money and to each his own, but I like spend my time in my heated living room, where a brown truck will bring the shit right to me, for a hundred dollars off.

KFG

Re:Pre-orders are a scam

[thefirelane]

That I did not know... then the pre-order is so you're in line ahead of most people right... ie. they fill out the pre-orders, then stock the shelves?

Re:Pre-orders are a scam

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, but they're selling preorders based on what Sony tells them they'll get. Sony tells the Gamestop at the corner by your house that they'll get 16 PS3s, so that Gamestop will take money from 16 people. But then, Sony screws up (of course) and they only ship out 8 PS3s, with more months away (just like the xbox360). The other 8 people are screwed, and from what I understand the $100 is considered "store credit".

Re:Pre-orders are a scam

[Anonymous Coward]

That's just cause you're all sickly like. Real men go out in the cold and buy stuff because they get it right then, dammit.

Re:Pre-orders are a scam

[Raenex]

It's even worse. What happened with the 360 is that some people with preorders went months without getting a system, because of shortages and employees/store owners selling on ebay for profit.

Re:Pre-orders are a scam

[nullChris]

Sure, EB might not be getting 400k units, but E-Bay on the other hand...

Re:Pre-orders are a scam

[Karma Farmer]

So you are paying a .36 "fee" to be certain to get a system. Ripoff? hardly.

Is this some wacky new definition of "certain?"

Re:Pre-orders are a scam

[Keeper]

Perhaps this time around; with the 360 they were taking preorders immediately after the console was "announced", before allocations were determined. To top it all off, after launch they decided to sell high priced bundles on their website before filling preorders placed at stores.

Re:Pre-orders are a scam

[Anonymous Coward]

At the EBGames I went to, they promised me a place in line. I was 4th there so the 4th ps3 console is reserved for me. If they don't get at least 4 then I'm out of luck until they do. The reason they don't guarantee a system on launch day is b/c they were burned by the 360 thing.

Re:Pre-orders are a scam

[Kildjean]

So you dont believe in reserving an item?

Re:Pre-orders are a scam

[ChildeRoland]

The fact is, I am not a Sony fanboy. I do not want a PS3. If anything I am a Nintendo fanboy and will probably be waiting in line to get a Wii for myself, however, I did not order the PS3 for myself, I don't even have an HD TV. I ordered it to resell, and I know that I will make a very healthy profit on it. That very much makes it worth waiting for. Whatever you say about Sony fanboys needs to be directed towards the Chump that's going to give me several hundred dollars over MSRP for it.

Re:Pre-orders are a scam

[LearningHard]

Your bank is required by law to state return as Annual Percentage Yield (or effective annual rate, both the same thing though). This is because Annual Percentage Rate does not take into account the effects of compounding. APY is usually a bit higher than APR because of the effect of compounding. Which means that it should be even less of a ripoff then you calculated.

(1+r)^12 - 1 = EAR (APY)
where
r = monthly compounding interest rate
(1+x)^12 - 1 = .044

Doing it quick and dirty would give you a monthly interest rate of .359 percent vs your calculated rate of .367 percent. Not much of a difference but I get a little irked when I see incorrect math applied to finance ideas. I guess it is because I'm a senior finance major myself.

Re:Pre-orders are a scam

[thelonestranger]

Theres one on ebay that has a photo of the reservation slip http://cgi.ebay.com/Playstaion-3-PS3-PRO-In-hand-g uranteed-with-bonus_W0QQitemZ170038045215QQihZ007Q QcategoryZ62054QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosti ng/ They guy paid the full $500 in advance and the shop still charged him a $5 reservation fee for the privalage of giving them his money 2 months in advance. WTF?

Re:Pre-orders are a scam

[drinkypoo]

Well, if there weren't nine actual fanboys lined up to take your place, then I guess I'd still be upset since you're helping give sony money, but as it is, congratulations on making money on some idiot willing to pay a thousand dollars for a first-generation blu-ray drive inside a console made by assholes who never did figure out how to make a reliable optical drive. I sit corrected, sir.

Re:Pre-orders are a scam

[Anonymous Coward]

Read more closely -- the $5 for the pre-order is for NBA 07 -- not the PS3.

Re:Pre-orders are a scam

[Captain_Chaos]

GameStop now takes your $100, puts it in the bank, gets mad interest off of your cash and another 400,000 reservations, and you're left with nothing. Instead of just having customers pay when the product is physically here.... Sorry, but I want a product when I put cash down.

In the Netherlands you can usually (pre-)order on "rembours", meaning that you pay the postman when the package arrives. Is this possible in the US? You usually pay a small fee, but the upside is that you get to keep the interest instead of the store, and the store has an incentive to get you your product early.

Re:Pre-orders are a scam

[ChildeRoland]

Thanks. I'm so looking forward to milking one of those guys dry :)

Uh... what?

[ack154]

Some acutions have already gone north of $1000 USD.

No they haven't.

The linked auction search only shows LISTED auctions for the PS3. The starting bids for a couple are $1000 or more. NONE of them (as of this post) have any bids.

Re:Uh... what?

[Warlock7]

Well, this auction ended before your post, for $1250.

I guess you didn't check the completed listings checkbox.

For some reason, eBay seems to be cancelling auctions for the PS3...

Re:Uh... what?

[Dr. Eggman]

I would guess some of them edge over the fine lines between what ebay allows and doesn't. Possible candidate violations include:

Contracts (Pre-orders may be non-transferable and thus restricted, but the service of purchasing a PS3 on the day of launch with a "guarentee" through the seller's indicated pre-order, might not.)

Misleading titles (PS3!!1!11 versus PS3 order)

pre-sale item (This is probably the big one, must indicate item will be obtained and shipped no more than 30 days after the listing's end and clearly indicate so.)

Electronic Surveillance Equipment *insert Sony rootkit joke*

Re:Uh... what?

[Warlock7]

It's the pre-sale item. I thought that they allowed up to 90 days, but we're over 30 days away...

Re:Uh... what?

[Dr. Eggman]

Technically, it's thirty days after the listing ends rather than 30 days until the product is out so any listing that ends before the 19th (or later depending on how long it takes for the seller to get and deliver the PS3) would be considered restricted.

Re:Uh... what?

[crossmr]

I was going to mod this discussion, but I had to reply.
Ebay doesn't give a crap about its policies. When someone can list a $50 shipping fee (via regular old post) and a 10% handling fee (based on the final auction price), which are both very clearly against ebay "policy", and ebay's response to an email inquiry into these is "Ebay trusts its sellers to set appropriate prices" (RE: fuck off) then they don't mean shit. Especially if you're a powerseller.

Re:Uh... what?

[crossmr]

ack..that should have been a shipping fee of $50 for a USB thumb drive via regular US post.

Re:Uh... what?

[antifoidulus]

*insert Sony rootkit joke*

So these two rootkits walk into a bar....

Re:Uh... what?

[Aladrin]

They are just lazy at policing it. I bought a case for my cellphone from ebay where it was fairly obvious the price was in the shipping, instead of the bid. A month later, I get a message saying the seller's products had all been removed for improper pricing.

Why I got that message, I don't know. But it was nice to see.

Re:Uh... what?

[crossmr]

In my experience it is rare. When I was quite active on Ebay last year over about 3 months, I reported a lot of things to ebay, most were quite obvious things (like the ridiculously excessive shipping) or blatant misleading titles (D-link NOT linksys or cisco) and everytime the form letter was of the tone "Fuck off we're not going to touch it, this guy has sold 20,000 items here" Because powersellers are the worst offenders by far. I also found powersellers saturating an item, i.e. 20 or 30 of them (ebay limited to like 10 identical at the same time) and other crap like that. I never once filed a complaint that seemed to result in an item being removed, etc. The only account that I saw closed was someone who stole money from myself and a few other people. Ebay did more than the police seemed to in that case. At least I got a refund, minus shipping and "processing". The local police took info than filed it under T.

North of $1000?

[Anonymous Coward]

Huh? According to that eBay link there are a bunch of pre-order PS3's LISTED for $1,000, but there are ZERO bids.

Re:North of $1000?

[Warlock7]

eBay started cancelling the auctions, no idea why.

At least one of the units was over $1300. There are now more that are at $1000 and going up...

Re:North of $1000?

[_Swank]

they may have started cancelling the auctions because the seller is guaranteed not to currently have the product and has no real guarantee that will at launch.

Re:North of $1000?

[lucyfersam]

I suspect that many that had actual bids were also being artificially bid up by the sellers, as I saw one with 8 bids when none of the others had any suddenly get pulled.

Re:North of $1000?

[PrescriptionWarning]

ebay is pretty much just covering their asses since its always probable that these people who have pre-order will not get the system as promised by the vendor.

I just laugh and grin at any poor schmuck who feels that paying that much more money just to have it a few months early is a worthwhile investment. What dumb people live in this world, and a damn good thing there's people out there to take advantage of them. not that I would ever do that, i'd rather play the console after paying regular price :-)

Heh

[Iamthefallen]

They waited this long to take pre-orders because they wanted to be sure that they weren't going to get burned like they did for the XBox 360 launch.

Allow me to express some mild scepticism, but I predict shortages and many unfulfilled pre-orders.

Re:Heh

[Anonymous Coward]

The only way those pre-orders will go unfulfilled is if Sony fails to deliver the promised allocation. At this point, Sony has confirmed the intention to GameStop to deliver all the systems they reserved today. The only reason GameStop is not calling these reserves "guaranteed" is because the systems largely don't exist yet, and given Sony's current bout of manufacturing problems it's better for GameStop not to make a promise based on Sony's ability to deliver.

Big sellout

[Anonymous Coward]

Big sell outs expected in stores across the country!

Re:Big sellout

[crankyspice]

Big sell outs expected in stores across the country!

Dude, Sony already sold out, big-time. I remember when they were an unsigned console manufacturer, setting up at dive bars for 20 people to play a few games for a quarter each. Yeah, PlayStation (back then, that's all it was; there was no PSP or PS2 or PS3) was primitive and unpolished by their standards of today, but you could tell there was passion behind it. It used to be about the gaming, man, it used to be about the gaming. Now, it's all corporate and sterile and 'how-can-we-leverage-this-product-to-increase-plat form-dominance' bundled Blu-Ray and stuff. They've changed, man. They've changed.

Re:OMFG What Will Wii Do?

[greenegg77]

Artificial shortages are nothing new in the console market. Microsoft did the same thing with the 360 release. See this post on here.

Why send an email about pre-orders...

[TD-2779]

This morning I received an email regarding pre-orders sometime after 10am GMT-6. I immediately called the six closest retail locations & they were ALL already out of pre-orders.

Why not send the email out DAYS ahead of time?

Oh well, I was just going to use the EBAY profits to fund my Wii.

Re:Why send an email about pre-orders...

[FordPrfct]

This morning I received an email regarding pre-orders sometime after 10am GMT-6. I immediately called the six closest retail locations & they were ALL already out of pre-orders.

You think that is bad? I found out about the preordering from Joystiq at about noon, and everybody in the Dallas/Fort Worth area was already sold out. I griped a bit to friends. Then I got the email from GameStop a little after 3pm.

Good job, guys.

Re:Why send an email about pre-orders...

[Hes Nikke]

ha! i got my email LAST NIGHT

From: news@ebgames.com
Signed-By: EBGAMES.COM | Mailed-By: gmail.com
To: EB Games Customer
Date: Oct 9, 2006 9:03 PM
Subject: EBgames.com Newsletter 10.10.2006

but i didn't look at it until just now... i happen to consider that particular newsletter to be on the junkish side so it's filtered and hidden from my inbox...

Re:Why send an email about pre-orders...

[Anonymous Coward]

At a max of about 6-10 "preorders" per store, that easily explains why the email was last minute. For every day you send the email in advance, you probably add a few dozen people to a line. They don't really want people to come in a mass exodus to just be disappointed at getting nothing.

Seriously though, the ps3 is going to be in such short supply (and almost definately going to have issues with such a short timeframe between final kits being development and then shipped to consumers), that no one will be able to judge if the PS3 is in high demand and not available, or just low demand and not available.

Re:OMFG What Will Wii Do?

[WillAffleckUW]

Yeah, my son want to get the Zelda title too. Not sure what we'll get at first.

How long until Animal Crossing: Revenge of the Hampster comes out?

Re:OMFG What Will Wii Do?

[EGSonikku]

Except there is nothing "artificial" about the shortages of 360 and PS3. Especially in Microsofts case, to beat Sony they need as many systems sold as fas as possible. So unless this "artificial" shortages were a conspiracy involving *everyone* from the chip makers down to the assembly workers, it just isn't true. They've been pumping out at full capacity.

A sufficient bunch of suckers apparently was born

[suv4x4]

A sufficient bunch of suckers apparently was born for this.

So, $1000 eBay auctions for PS3 pre-orders. How do I describe this.

- it's a preorderm might not even happen
- they are willing to be the guinea pigs to try out the first (possibly faulty) batch of PS3
- how do you call something that's overpriced, and then overpriced again? But yea, that too.

So keep it going. If I ever buy a PS3, it'll be in an year or so when I'll get it for less than its current retail price, with rich game selection, stable performance (all major software and hardware bugs fixed), and if it flops I might even just save myself the $500 or so, and just play with my xbox.

On my way to Game Stop

[NineNine]

Holy shit! A useful Slashdot article! I can't believe it! (I'm totally serious. First time ever) I'm on my way to the store...

Re:On my way to Game Stop

[ebob9]

If you actually find a GameStop with pre-orders left, THEN it's useful. However, sadly - I don't think you'll have much luck.

(from someone who was the last person at a GameStop at 8:20 am to get one).

-ebob9

Re:On my way to Game Stop

[falcon8080]

Irony, Sarcasm, something along these lines...

Thank You, Beta Testers

[thatguywhoiam]

We are pleased that so many of you have volunteered your hard-earned time and money to be the first to work out all the kinks in this first generation of PlaysDISK READ ERROR

Re:*yawn*

[chroot_james]

"Danger: Info Inflow Overload, Knowledge Blackhole Imminent!"

Re:OMFG What Will Wii Do?

[WillAffleckUW]

Not according to the print editions of the Wall Street Journal and Fortune that I read.

Full capacity is determined by supply of parts - if you choke off purchases of parts and all ...

1000$

[jfclavette]

So it's actually CHEAPER on EBay ?

Rewards?

[Daemonstar]

reaping the sweet rewards.

Wait, so, standing in line in order to get something that you're just going to resell to get more money while the person behind you wants to buy the same item for her kids for Christmas, and then realizes her checkbook was empty and has to leave, is a reward?

I guess on the bright side, it saved her lots of cash to buy other (hopefully less expensive) things for her kids.

Re:Rewards?

[Eccles]

Perhaps by doing this buying and selling, I can afford Xmas presents for *my* family?

Re:Rewards?

[sokoban]

"I guess on the bright side, it saved her lots of cash to buy other (hopefully less expensive) things for her kids."

Like a Wii and a half dozen games?

Re:Rewards?

[@madeus]

Perhaps by doing this buying and selling, I can afford Xmas presents for *my* family?

Or perhaps you could do an honest days work, instead of being a lazy weasel trying to make a fast buck at someone else's expense.

But you should do what feels right.

Just don't be surprised if Santa brings you coal this year, on account of him having your name listed under "Naug"^W "Cunts". YMMV.

Re:Rewards?

[chris_eineke]

Oh, stop it already. That story of the mom in line to pick up a brand-spanking new console for her kid is a hasty generalization at best.

Why don't you think of the hard working widower Dad that needs to work 12 hours a day to pay for his Son's cancer treatment and wants to make his son's life more cheerful by buying him a PS3 from eBay because that's the only place he can get his hands on one?

Won't someone think of the fallacy?

Re:Rewards?

[Kris_J]

Perhaps by doing this buying and selling, I can afford Xmas presents for *my* family?

Or perhaps you could do an honest days work, instead of being a lazy weasel trying to make a fast buck at someone else's expense.

What, you can't do both?

I'm hoping to get enough extra copies of the Collector's Edition of the World of Warcraft expansion Burning Crusade to pay for everything I've spent on the game so far.

Re:Rewards?

[Walter Carver]

It's a free market. In a fre market/economy we do not examine the intentions of the consumer/buyer, that would be unethical. The one who offers the money first (since this product is at shortage) gets the product. And the he/she can do whatever they want with it, including destroying it or selling it back at whatever price they want. All micro-electronics items are over-priced in their launch.

Re:Rewards?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, like an Xbox and 2 dozen games.

Re:Rewards?

[Trogre]

Sure.

Unless, that is the kids are wanting to play it in a room with sunlight, or fluorescent or halogen lighting.

Or they want to play any decent game other than Zelda's Revenge XXVI for that matter.

Re:Rewards?

[Anonymous Coward]

reaping the sweet rewards.

Wait, so, standing in line in order to get something that you're just going to resell to get more money while the person behind you wants to buy the same item for her kids for Christmas, and then realizes her checkbook was empty and has to leave, is a reward?

Yes. It tastes like the tears of small children.

Re:Rewards?

[IpalindromeI]

How is it being a weasel? If people are willing to pay more for one off eBay, they must think it's worth it. Are you scamming them by giving them what they want at a price they agree to? The fact that this even happens only shows that the manufacturers have set the price too low for the demand. I honestly don't understand the ill-will directed at the "pre-order then sell on eBay" crowd.

Re:Rewards?

[Dev59]

How is that in any way trolling? Because it wasn't negative for the PS3? Because it pointed out a problem with the Wii? He provided three (3!!!) links to information!

We should just call this the "Zonk" mod.

Re:Rewards?

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you really implying that we should let any economical system, be it the free market or something else, dictate what is "unethical"? Surely we should rather argue for, or against, such systems by considering whether they are "ethical"..

Fraud?

[jgoemat]

From both accounts I've read, it seems like stores might not be playing by the rules. Rumors that only 2 per store were for friends or family, with one store selling six to friends and family and another selling all of theirs... I think it would be fitting if Sony did an investigation and refused to give ANY to a store that had a problem like that. Many of the 'friends and family' are probably just making money on EBay...

Re:Fraud?

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know about fraud, but my Gamestop called me last night and said they'd hold a preorder slot for me since I'm a "regular"....(aside: kinda sad, when you think about it). Went in today, they were turning people away saying they were full on their preorders, and then I paid my $100 and got my preorder receipt, and walked out, with people thinking I had just preordered DOA:X2. Probably going to EBay it unless I have a tremendous change of heart come November 17.

Re:Fraud?

[Anonymous Coward]

There's got to be some perks for working a shitty job. I guess this is one.

Wow... $1600!!!

[Warlock7]

This one went for $1600...

No wonder

[yanos]

From the kotaku post:
Each store had at least eight PS3's for preorder, with some getting as many as 16.

Wow. No wonder it's already sold out.

Re:A sufficient bunch of suckers apparently was bo

[revlayle]

"...how do you call something that's overpriced, and then overpriced again?"

excessively overpriced?

If people will pay it...

[XNine]

Then people will pay it. We all saw what happened with the 360 launch (units going for upward of $2K on ebay). Why wouldn't it happen with the PS3? A unit that's even harder to get during the first couple of months, especially close to the holiday season, will easily start to sell for 2K clsoer and clsoer to christmas. Wait... why didn't I go pre-order one? FUCK!

-1

[everphilski]

wii karma whoring in a ps3 article

So if EB says preorders for Wii next week

[WillAffleckUW]

then why were all the n00bz camped out for the PS3 this week?

Are they buying a PS3, reselling it for profit, and using the cash to pick up a Wii with a killer load of titles?

Or don't they know the OS still has bugs in it, according to the latest slashdot news?

Re:So if EB says preorders for Wii next week

[__aaclcg7560]

Are they buying a PS3, reselling it for profit, and using the cash to pick up a Wii with a killer load of titles?

It's the great Nintendo conspiracy against Sony. Didn't you get the memo?

Re:So if EB says preorders for Wii next week

[Phisbut]

It's the great Nintendo conspiracy against Sony. Didn't you get the memo?

If you missed the memo, here it is.

Re:OMFG What Will Wii Do?

[timeOday]

The free variable is release date. If they wanted, they could keep stockpiling them in warehouses until they had enough. I'm not saying they should, only that, yes, it is their choice how many to have on hand when they lauch.

Excuse me

[Travoltus]

I pre-ordered a PS3... how do I auction it off when I don't even own it yet? I thought that was verboten on ebay.

Is it silly to get a console on release?

[WillAffleckUW]

If I were looking for early-adopter flaws, I'd select some that have actually been fixed. Even slimline PS2s suffer more drive failures than any other optical-drive console I've ever used.

Well, yeah, but if you didn't leave it on the rug where your cat sleeps, it would probably last a bit longer.

Re:Is it silly to get a console on release?

[drinkypoo]

If I were looking for early-adopter flaws, I'd select some that have actually been fixed. Even slimline PS2s suffer more drive failures than any other optical-drive console I've ever used.

Well, yeah, but if you didn't leave it on the rug where your cat sleeps, it would probably last a bit longer.

Actually, I'm allergic to cats, and I have stands that hold all my equipment. The PS2 is on top of the switchbox is on top of the Xbox, all in a cubby in my TV stand; All my stereo equipment is in one of the usual stands for that purpose in another corner of the room.

The simple fact is that Sony makes the least reliable game consoles with optical drives in them, period. Sony has seldom been able to make a reliable optical drive. I have a car discman that has fared quite well in the face of abuse, which is an absolute requirement for any portable hardware, but I've lost a PS1 and a PSOne, and seen countless PS2s fail.

In fact, Gran Turismo 4 is notorious for killing the optical drive in the original (thick) PS2. It's a Sony game in a Sony system! Only the best. Personally I think it was intentional.

Re:Is it silly to get a console on release?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's some wonderfully comprehensive research you have, that anecdote.

Here's mine: I fell on my PS2 (thick) and have yanked it off its shelf twice (got me cordless controllers after that) and it's still going, never had an error.

I'll be your token troll for this thread

[Matey-O]

Okay. I've bought LOTS of Sony stuff. Thousands of dollars worth.

Trinitron Tube'd TV's
Disk- and Walk-men
Standalone home theatre speakers
nifty AV receivers
a Laptop
A Camcorder.
several pairs of headphones
countless Sony branded movies and albums, I'm sure.

And I'll never buy another Sony product again. Why?

Rootkits
Proprietary Media - MD, DAT, Memory Sticks, little odd writeable DVD's for their camcorders, PSP's oddball media, Beta, and now BluRay. I'm sick sick sick of the intentional fracturing of the market at the expense of the customer.
A Laptop installed with XP that _couldn't_ take SP2 due to a crappy memory controller.
Decisions for music players that just flat seemed STUPID (ATRAC?)
The fact they're betting the company on this one, expensive, item that has a cobbled together controller at a price I don't care to spend, forcing a media format I do not want.

Coupled with my moving away from physical media for entertainment purposes (I'll probable not get either competing format. I shifted from record and 8track to cassette, then CD's, from VHS to laserdisk to DVD.) I'm tired of re-buying the White Album, catch my drift?

Are you guys really falling all over yourselves for this company? Haven't they screwed you enough? (And by you, I mean the Customer)

Sony is an example of a machine that's gotten so large, it cannot move without standing on itself. I see no reason my money should reward it for its actions.

Re:I'll be your token troll for this thread

[Blimey85]

I agree with most of what you said. I hate that any company uses proprietary stuff but lets leave PSP's media out of this. The PSP is a handheld game console and it's expected to use proprietary media. It's not like Nintendo is making handhelds that use regular dvd's, nor should they be expected to. For things like digital cameras we only need one standard. All cameras could use the same cards and then we wouldn't need 15-n-1 card readers anymore. But when I buy a game system I expect to have to use whatever media the games come on. It might be cartridges or discs of some sort or who knows what.

Or were you talking about the PSP using memory stick duo cards? If so, ignore what I've said. :)

Re:I'll be your token troll for this thread

[the_B0fh]

Doh. So, Microsoft creating a platform that lurves rootkits is OK. So, Microsoft shipping win2k with 65000 known issues is OK. So, Microsoft screwing the play anywhere (or whatever they called it) customers with zune is OK. So, Microsoft screwing with the customer by being a monopolist is OK (and still continues to do so).

I mean, WTF? Why is it OK for Microsoft to do that and more (Bill Gates perjury in the fscking court during the monopoly trial, anyone?!? Alchin's perjury?!).

WTF is wrong with blueray? So, HDVD is better?! The fact that almost no one supported HDVD until _AFTER_ Microsoft threw their weight behind it doesn't make you unhappy?

Whatever. I can't believe people are missing the forest for the damned trees.

Re:I'll be your token troll for this thread

[Matey-O]

My house has two ubuntu systems, a linux firewall, Two OS X systems and my wife's computer. There's one copy of a Microsoft OS in my house and it wasn't my decision for it to be here. I'm voiting with my money. Are you?

Re:I'll be your token troll for this thread

[oGMo]

Are you guys really falling all over yourselves for this company? Haven't they screwed you enough? (And by you, I mean the Customer)

On the contrary. SCE has delivered two solid platforms already, each with thousands of games, hundreds of those being of excellent quality. Too many to play, too many to choose from. This isn't what I call "screwing over".

Does Sony/BMG do stupid stuff? Yes. Does Sony Pictures do stupid stuff? They're MPAA---yes. Does Sony Computer Entertainment do stupid stuff? Probably, but less so. What they have done is deliver a solid platform with a solid library. Have they secretly funded organizations to undermine the Linux community? No. So, yes, I'm "voting" with my dollar; I may "vote no" to Sony/BMG, I may "vote no" to Sony Pictures, but I will "vote yes" to SCE. May they set an example for the rest of the company.

Re:I'll be your token troll for this thread

[donaldm]

Excellent reply, I was getting tired of seeing the same old anti Sony rants as if Sony was the most evil manufacturer in the world.

What many people here seem to forget is the PS2 was actually reviled as expensive, hard to program for, had an unnecessary DVD drive and lots of other negative things but look how well it did. The PS3 properly won't do as well as the PS2 and Sony SCE certainly has done some IMHO stupid things but I think the best way of judging Sony is a year from now, not on some slip-ups before a particular product ships.

Re:I'll be your token troll for this thread

[ElleyKitten]

None of the excellent games on the playstation and ps2 were made by Sony. More and more of the excellent franchises that have been on playstation are going multi-platform. With the public relations disaster that's going on with the ps3, it's likely to have significantly less marketshare, and that means even less exclusive games. For about the price of a ps3, you could get a Wii and a 360, so I think it's rather likely that anyone who buys a ps3 at launch will be screwed over.

Re:I'll be your token troll for this thread

[RoadDoggFL]

Sony didn't make those games. They only came because of unwarranted hype and hardware that looks better on paper than anywhere else. This strategy is flawed and when it fails Sony, I can only help Nintendo will be there to pick up the pieces and lead console gaming where it should be going rather than fighting a losing battle against PC gaming.

Re:I'll be your token troll for this thread

[Anonymous Coward]

Excellent Sony games: Ico, God of War, Gran Turismo (Polyphony Digital is owned by Sony). Sony's first party output is probably better than Microsoft's, though Nintendo is of course the first party king.

Anyone who buys a launch console is screwed, full stop. The difference is how hard...

Re:I'll be your token troll for this thread

[oGMo]

None of the excellent games on the playstation and ps2 were made by Sony.

Wrong. Just out of games I own (minus ones in parentheses, which are not out yet):

• Ape Escape 1, 2, 3
• God of War 1 (, 2)
• Gran Turismo 1, 2, 3, 4
• ICO
• Jak and Daxter 1, 2, 3
• Kinetica [Hey, this was one of the first ps2 racers and it was pretty neat]
• Ratchet and Clank 1, 2, 3
• Shadow of the Colossus
• Sly Cooper 1, 2, 3
• Syphon Filter 1 (, Omega Strain)
• Twisted Metal Black
• Wipeout Fusion

Additionally, Sony has fostered the relationships and provided the expertise to make their platform attractive to developers. They listen and respond. The PS1 was all SDK, and devs wanted to code the metal, thus they got the PS2. Yeah, it was harder, but they asked for it, and got it. The PS2 was hard to start, so they've got a huge library of code and APIs for the PS3. Their developer-friendliness was the reason that they attracted development houses from Nintendo in the first place. Being developer-friendly results in third-party games, which are what really sell the platform. This has been a hard lesson for Nintendo that's been a long time in coming. They seem to have learned it to an extent with the Wii, but we'll see how it works out.

But the point is that Sony deserves credit for attracting third-party games; hype doesn't sell a console to the people who are doing the coding. And "public relations disaster" is mostly in the minds of forum dwellers who will spin anything to rationalize the fact their parents might not buy them a PS3.

Re:I'll be your token troll for this thread

[ElleyKitten]

None of the excellent games on the playstation and ps2 were made by Sony.

Wrong.

Ok, I should have put in big letters In my opinion before stating that Sony doesn't make excellent games. None of those games you listed, in my opinion, are any good, and arguing whether or not they are is stupid, because it's opinion.

Anyways, it looks pretty clear that Sony and Nintendo are not going to be in the same positions with ps3 and wii they were with ps2 and gamecube. For one, the ps3 is six hundred dollars. The Wii will sit next to it at $250, with unique games that gamers and non-gamers can enjoy together, and if you don't like unique games, there's an 360 for 2/3rds the price that plays simular games. Square Enix's been pretty clear that they're not going to be as exclusive to Sony as they have in the past, and they're considering putting DQIX on Wii. The other big developers have pretty much already gone multi-platform. The ps3 is just not going to have the third party support that the ps2 and 2 enjoyed. Maybe it won't be that bad, but buying a ps3 at launch is just foolish.

Re:I'll be your token troll for this thread

[Anonymous Coward]

When the OP said "screwed over" I think he was referring to the list of a dozen or so ways in which Sony had screwed him over - not the ONE way in which they were a reasonably good company.

Anyway you sound like the guy who bought a Saturn. "Sega have delivered two solid platforms already etc. etc." History is no guide to the future.

Kudos to Sony for PS1 and PS2 but it's optimistic to expect them to achieve the same success on PS3 given their current popularity among early adopters.

Re:I'll be your token troll for this thread

[Dev59]

Oooooh, an argument for Sony and against Microsoft... and you got modded down to troll for it! You got Zonked!

Re:I'll be your token troll for this thread

[the_B0fh]

*shrug* Doesn't matter to me, I can take assholes calling me a troll. I've also found that there's a shit load of redcrap fanbois here, and if you say anything bad about redshit, they come down on you as well.

If people can't stand logic, that's their problem.

*shrug* Truth is truth, and rpm sucks donkeys balls. Mark me down, I don't care.

Re:I'll be your token troll for this thread

[Dev59]

Wipeout: Fusion is a HORRIBLE game. A fucking travesty committed upon the franchise. Also, it was not made by Sony.

I miss Psygnosis.

Speaking of which, I just wiki'ed Psygnosis wondering whatever the heck happened to them. They became SCE Studio Liverpool now and they're making games again! While they had nothing to do with the travesty of Wipeout: Fusion (they DID make the first 3 games on the PSOne though), they recently made Wipeout:Pure for the PSP (of which I've heard good things)... and they have a Wipeout game planned for the PS3 now!

The last five years or so, it seems all they've put out are yearly iterations of Formula One, so it's nice to see them get the Wipeout property back (Bam! made Wipeout: Fusion).

Re:I'll be your token troll for this thread

[Dev59]

That doesn't really work. Sega put out ONE solid platform before the Dreamcast. The Genesis. Everything else failed. The Megadrive failed, the Sega CD failed, the 32X failed, and then the Saturn failed, which anyone paying attention could have seen coming. ...that said...

I bought a Sega Saturn. And enjoyed it, actually. There were some incredibly good games for that system, even if you had to import half of them. Guardian Heroes is still one of my all-time favorite games. May the FSM bless Treasure.

Craigslist

[Anonymous Coward]

I just noticed this guy local to me trying to sell his pre ordered ps3 for $1500. I encorage all of you to thank him for saving one.

Re:Wow... $1600!!!

[pembo13]

hhaha, talk about suckered

Re: Rootkits

[XNine]

Were developed by Sony BMG, NOT Sony CE. So, essentially, you're saying you're boycotting an entire company for the stupid decision of one division? So... How many tokens are you holding, Mr. Troll?

Free overnight shipping!

[Genevish]

Here's a good one...

Re:Free overnight shipping!

[springbox]

You can "buy it now" for $1 million and make no payments for 3 months! PS3s are getting cheaper these days.

Re:Free overnight shipping!

[Nazmun]

Good fucking god, the buyer probably saw $1k and not a million.

Re:Free overnight shipping!

[thelonestranger]

Current Bid $1000,000.00---On the sellers add I cannot be held responsible for Sony delaying a shippment or gamestop not having my PS3 on launch day. However, if either of these UNLIKELY scenarios happen, I will issue a full refund IMMEDIATLEY!! Check out my feedback! 100% positive!

Yeah. Right. I can see that happening. You've got 1 million in the bank and your just going to hand it back to them. Ticket to Mexico here I come ;)

Re:Free overnight shipping!

[Lennavan]

Yeah, right. The buyer with no Ebay history whatsoever buys a PS3 for 1mil? I'm seeing that bid cancelled in 3...2...1...

Re:Free overnight shipping!

[rbarreira]

From his member page:

Member since: Jul-16-06

Re:Free overnight shipping!

[macshome]

At least it comes with free shipping!

Re:Free overnight shipping!

[rts008]

I hope he posts the video of him explaining this one to his (soon to be EX) wife on youtube!
Outstandingly astounding!

Re:The party's over.

[Ender Ryan]

The only real sport to be found through a computer nowadays is trolling message boards.

Which you seem to be pretty good at indeed. You injected the perfect amount of truth, in this case quite a bit, just with (mostly) wrong (well, IMO) conclusions. Ie. gaming isn't dead, it's just kinda sucky at the moment.

This "gen" won't be a writeoff either, even if what you say is somewhat true. The Wii will prove useful, even if it sucks for traditional games(not enough evidence at this point to say with 100% certainty), it will be fun for some things. There's some great titles in development for the 360 -- Gears of War(doesn't look like my cup of tea, but looks good nonetheless), uh... that one Action RPG, Bioshock, and etc. The PS3 is expensive indeed, but the price will come down, probably sooner rather than later, or as soon as it's not selling out -- they've already reduced the Japanese launch price, and there's some excellent games in development for it too.

Some growing pains perhaps, but not a total bomb for gaming.

Money Demanded Within 3 Days of End Of Auction

[Petersko]

" am only accepting PAYPAL for this auction and payment MUST be made within 3 days of auction end.

What kind of brain-dead idiot would agree to terms like that for a product that:

1. Might not ship from the factory when estimated

2. Might not be shipped to EB Games in the estimated numbers

3. Might not be provided to the client who prepaid ("Oops! We got a defective! Sorry buddy, you get the first one next time!")

I can see asking for a deposit. Say, oh, $100. But whoever bought this out deserves to be screwed. Call it an "idiot tax".

Re: Rootkits

[Anonymous Coward]

Any why not? Its a division but its still eventually run by the same people. Personally I don't buy anything Sony now because no matter what division they are from they all seem to think that they can do no wrong. I'm sorry but I've seen to many comments from people at Sony for the PS3 that I thought were condecending and lost them my bussiness for ever. I will buy a Wii and Possiably an xbox360 but I will never own another Playstation.

Re:A sufficient bunch of suckers apparently was bo

[rolfwind]

A $1000 seems "cheap", on ebay, some prices:

auction# final_price
290038323160 $1250
140040870055 $1600
280036965145 $1700

Not only is the stupidity limited to consoles but to domain names and email addresses so "sellers can get in early" and do what? Profit off a dorky email address based on one product that will die down after New Years? I don't think that works too well anymore, like in the early dot.com days. (sarcasm)

I wonder how much those Tickle Me Elmos are worth these days....

http://www.finpipe.com/elmo.htm

How about some REAL discussion?

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't care if you're not going to buy the ps3. I also don't care if you're going to use the hypothetical money you set aside for a ps3, to now buy a Wii. I don't care that you feel so persecuted by one company that you take every chance you get to tell everyone about your Sony boycott.

...The mere mention of the word "rootkit" should not mean you automatically get modded "funny".

Slashdots games section is next only to Gamefaqs when it comes to trollish/childish behaviour. And now since I'm adding nothing to this discussion, I'll leave to start my own boycott.

Re:How about some REAL discussion?

[Dev59]

(Insert Obligatory "I would give you mod points if I had them" comment here.)

So get one here

[GweeDo]

Mine is available to you all.

Re:So get one here

[Psycosys]

Not anymore it's not!

Re:Wow... $1600!!!

[Robot Randy]

Being sold by a guy who used to sell pants, and is "Not a registered user"...

And anyway, the username ends in "1337". What the heck is 1337?

Oh, wait a minute.

I'm a little worried here

[Daimando]

I know the Wii will be in stock even more than the PS3 when pre-orders start, but even so, I fear I may not be able to get to my pre-ordering in time.

Give me a break...

[checkyoulater]

Just don't buy one. Does it really make you feel better to tell us all that Sony is too big for their own good? That Sony is shooting themselves in the foot? That (insert favourite comment here)? Enough already.

so you're not a gamer then?

[Ender Ryan]

I take it you're not a gamer then, and you shouldn't really bother participating in this discussion, except to bait those of us who DO play games into a flamefest?

Or, wait, do you own a 360, or original Xbox. You only mentioned MS having one MS OS... Are you being evasive?

Do you buy consoles/games from lawsuit happy only-official-strategy-guides, "emulators are illegal", everything-20-years-old-is-new-again, Now In Pink! Nintendo?

Sony publically apologized for the rootkits... Which was a Sony BMG decision, not SCE. Everything has DRM now... *sigh* Neither MS or Nintendo are much if at all better. I really don't get why Sony has come under so much fire lately. They aren't unique in any way.

Re:so you're not a gamer then?

[Anonymous Coward]

That is part of the problem then, not? It is now seemingly considered normal to screw around with your customers seemingly, I think I can really see the parents position in this, Sony needs to clean up its act just like seemingly many other companies. Or alternatively they can lose the buisness of anyone who cares about such things as not getting messed up by such companies.

Obviously that isn't completly realistic, but the least bad one in the group right now is probably Nintendo I suppose, if you have to buy a game console that is. The Wii atleast comes with fairly standard components and besides its region controlling and license protection mechanisms doesn't seem to have all to much more annoying DRM like things if any, I've atleast not heard of any beyond those.

Re:so you're not a gamer then?

[Matey-O]

Aww heck, you got me. There's a modded Xbox and a 'Virgin' Xbox, an iMac I neglected to count, one more PC running Vista, and a Wii's on my list.

FWIW, of the 14 Xbox games I have, 5 were bought new, the rest were second hand.

But I'm _not_ getting a 360. Just like I'm not getting a PS3. So what's yer point? I think BOTH companies have become unresponsive behemoths that can't make product due to their being too successful too long. Their legacy is weighing them down.

The one thing I'm _not_ is a fanboi. The Wii has the best opportunity for being a good value. The other two are barking up the wrong tree.

Re:so you're not a gamer then?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm OSX-only. I'm a gamer.

No, not Photoshop or Super Breakout, either.

That said, I agree, the bitching is old. Especially "ZOMG PROPRIETARY BLOO-RAY!!!". As another poster said about an entirely different format, "proprietary" is not just a word for formats you don't like.

Re:so you're not a gamer then?

[Ender Ryan]

Aha yes! :)

I do respect your position. Thanks for replying.

s/mentioned MS having/mentioned having only/

[Ender Ryan]

Preview preview preview... *sigh*

Here's why eBay listings vanish...

[The Last Gunslinger]

eBay has a fairly clear policy regarding pre-sale auctions...I'd imagine any PS3 listing that get pulled probably don't satisfy their requirements.

From the eBay rules site:
Pre-sale listings are those that describe items for sale that are not in the control or possession of the seller at the time of the listing. These listings generally consist of items that are sold in advance of a delivery date to the public.

eBay permits Pre-sale listings only on a limited basis. The seller must guarantee that the item will be available for shipping within 30 days from the date of purchase (i.e., the day the listing ends or the date the item is purchased from a store front listing). The seller must also clearly indicate within the listing the fact that the item is a pre-sale item with a delivery date that indicates the item will be shipped by the 30th day from the end date of the listing. Additionally, this text must be no less than the default font size of the eBay Sell-Your-Item form. Currently, the default font size is HTML font size 3.

Violations of this policy may result in a range of actions, including:

* Listing cancellation
* Limits on account privileges
* Account suspension
* Forfeit of eBay fees on cancelled listings
* Loss of PowerSeller status

Lol medium-small town

[Loktar Ogar]

I woke up at 3pm today, with 150$ in the bank, went to gamestop 1.5 hours later and preregistered a ps3, no joke. Apparently some guy from Connecticut called our small gamestop in the NW of the US and offered an extra 1300 dollars for a prereg to which they replied no. So everyone who didn't get one you can have this consolatory emoticon. :p

Re:Lol medium-small town

[Leviance]

That's terrific.. Where are you from, the Tri-Cities?

Salem, OR apparently had 15 people lined up at opening of EB for 8 machines. Good times.

I slept in :)

I just looked on Ebay

[thelonestranger]

On of the ones going on ebay shows a copy of the reservation slip. The guy paid the full $500 up front when he reserved the console and the shop still charged him a $5 reservation fee for the privalage of taking his money off of him 2 months in advance. WTF?

Re:OMFG What Will Wii Do?

[steveo777]

How long until Animal Crossing: Revenge of the Hampster comes out?

Personally, I'm waiting for Animal Crossing: Loan Sharks Come Collecting. It's a little more violent and adult themed in that you have to fish under the cover of night and pretend to not be home to avoid beatings and broken limbs. It's one of Nintendo's 'cross-over' titles that mixes the Suzy homemaker aspect of Animal Crossing, the stealth of Thief, and the brutatlity of Manhunt (in that networked players who you owe money come looking for it).

Silly...hardly

[Anonymous Coward]

Come on dude we're techies we want it from day one. Yeah first run electronics are prone to bugs...but there are these little things called service agreements.

While nonsensical for most items, for first release, high priced electronics they are essential. Why? #1 - If you do get a defective unit you can return it for another up to a year or two after. #2 - You can play your unit from day one and return it the day before the extended warranty/service agreement expires to get an updated model with all the kinks worked out. IMO anybody who pays $500 plus for an unproven or new technology and doesn't get a service agreement is crazy.

In this age of service agreements/extended warranties early adopters are really in a win, win situation. So why not buy on day one?

Holy fuck, how do you people live with yourself?

[wheany]

It's a god damn video game console! Why do you care whether other people buy it or not?

Pre-orders guaranteed... by the end of the year

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm surpised no one has mentioned this yet. The local EBGames store in my area was including a note with everyone's pre-orders that states that their pre-order is guaranteed by the end of the year. So, that means if you were pre-order customer #16 out of 16 that there is a good chance that you may see your PS3 after Christmas.

Did anyone else's store (EBGames or GameStop) say the same thing? I'm curious to find out if it's a corporate statement or just the local manager covering his/her back.

Re:*yawn*

[Amouth]

mod -1 lame

Are there any good games?

[eison]

So, are there any games that look like they'll be worth $600+ to play?

Re:Are there any good games?

[Loktar Ogar]

fuck no

Re:OMFG What Will Wii Do?

[Anonymous Coward]

That actually sounds really original and fun - so long as pacing etc is right anyway. I don't think you'd talk Nintendo into it but maybe you could do a UT mod prototype or something.