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Seven Essential Tips For Using Ubuntu Feisty Fawn
Ed Albro writes "Matthew Newton, a columnist at PC World, has a great article up on seven things you'll want to change as soon as you start using Feisty Fawn. Some are as simple as making sure the Alt key works right, another gives you step-by-step instructions for turning on the impressive Beryl interface. 'I could spend a whole 'nother column telling you about all the great packages that are not installed by default, but for now I'll just leave you with this bonus tip: If you're running Ubuntu on a laptop and your Wi-Fi card is not detected or supported, try installing the Ndisgtk package (listed as such in Synaptic, but as 'Wireless Windows Drivers' in Add/Remove Applications). Then select the new System, Administration, Windows Wireless Drivers entry in Ubuntu's menu bar.'"
In a world of acronyms, the words are the real victims.
>Matthew Newton, a columnist at PC World, has a great up on...
A "great up?"
Sentence no word.
You can't talk about Wikipedia's flaws on Wikipedia
you seem woken up to me...
Don't get me wrong: I'm glad Ubuntu is getting the publicity. What bothers me the most about this article, though, is that he suggests that one of the first things you should do is install Automatix
Automatix is simple, and easy to use. It'll automatically install a lot of important stuff -- but it does so in a bad way. Overwriting files, removing dependencies, messing up the ubuntu-desktop metapackage -- name a brute-force method to deal a low blow to your package management system, and Automatix does it in ways that make developers cringe.
This is not usually a problem initially, but eventually you end up paying the piper; when it's time to update to the next version, things break, and it's Automatix's fault. A large portion of problems people experienced moving from Dapper to Edgy were caused by Automatix; Automatix refused to support those problems, and claimed it was our fault. I don't have a problem with Automatix existing, but until they take responsibility for the problems they cause, I'm not going to go recommending it to users. It does more harm than good.
I was surprised to see that the write up recommended Automatix. I thought it was not going to be needed in Feisty, especially with the Restricted Codecs package easily available from Synaptic. I also was under the impression that Automatix often messed with Ubuntu updates, and it's better to just install via Synaptic or manually (which really isn't difficult, just copying and pasting commands into a terminal...)
This is your seven o'clock alarm call!
Wake the hell up!
Nice to see tips for the newbies to help them set up the system in the way they like best,
but I feel that the system just after installation is already really usable and reliable.
If you are not an expert and you start to turn on Beryl and to play with Synaptic...
I believe that a lot of people will be going back to windows because their system has become
unusable.
Once you're ready to take off, you will discover by yourself these great features.
Just my idea.
marco
Since when as any Linux company/nerd ever understood the power of branding and brand reinforcement with marketing ?
instead of deriding other OS's/b$ companies for their marketing they should be learning how it works and how important it is
this should be easy as all the billion $ companies are the ones spending the cash to experiment with the market, Linux should be creaming the best ideas and implementing a decent strategy after all Nerds know best right ?, but alas no and thats why we have stupid names like GNU for example, that sounds like it was invented by a child in a classroom , no wonder it gets laughed off the table when mentioning what the acronym means at a F250 board meeting.
Linux needs to mature faster than the jerks coming up with the names
there is a show stopper bug in either the kernel or driver for the ata2 interface.
o urce-2.6.20/+bug/107271
it's confirmed now that on many laptops the kernel has to restart the ata2 interface intermittently and thereby lock up your system for up to 30 seconds at a time essentially rendering your laptop useless.
stay on lts or edgy for the time being until this bug is fixed:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-s
"Wanna play with my Fiesty Fawn?" should never be used as a pick-up line.
but I just upgraded to Feisty and my system is borked now. Not sure what's wrong. But I'll do a backup and do a fresh reinstall rather than an upgrade.
from what i've heard, keeping a CD in the cdrom resolves this.
If you're running Ubuntu on a laptop and your Wi-Fi card is not detected or supported, try installing the Ndisgtk package (listed as such in Synaptic, but as 'Wireless Windows Drivers' in Add/Remove Applications). Sucks be to you if your only connectivity is Wireless...
Get your own free personal location tracker
Susano! Wake Up! LINNNUUUXXX is ready!
Creationist Textbook Stickers Declared Unconstitutional by CowboyNeal
How do I use APT to upgrade from my Edgy install to Feisty?
--
make install -not war
Strange that this guy got trolled, he's got a point. If Linux is ever going to take a fair share of the desktop market, they'll need to come up with something better than having to make seven essential changes yourself to get things running properly. And isn't Ubuntu supposed to be Linux for human beings, i.e. ordinary people? I can see lots of ordinary people getting freaked out by having to install a lot of stuff in order to get the Alt-button working the way it should...
my 2 cents.
I have this problem on a desktop computer, too. :(
Hail Eris, full of mischief...
E pluribus sanguinem
Linux needs to mature faster than the jerks coming up with the names
Why? It's grown up nicely with me since 1995. Your whole post is predicated on the idea that the original developers of FOSS just want to make money off it. Usually they don't; they do it for fun, because they love computers, to help out their fellow man, the list goes on and in some cases probably includes making money. But not usually in my experience.
Companies that repackage it all and want to make money may want to spend some time studying branding and marketing but the GNU people aren't trying to sell you anything. They give it to you, no charge, including the blessing to make your own money off it if you choose/can succeed. If you think you can sell GNU software under some fancy name then I will be happy to give your distro a try when it's released. I like to try them all! But you can also be sure I will go back to using my Sarges and Etches and my Drakes and Fawns if your distro ends up sucking, even if you do come up with a clever name.
Creationist Textbook Stickers Declared Unconstitutional by CowboyNeal
So the article is basically "How to install a bunch of shit that wasn't installed by default for good reasons". Not a good idea.
Binary drivers that are completely unsupportable.
A package manager that conflict with the default one.
3D whiz-bang eye candy that's unstable, and requires yet more binary drivers to get 3D.
Magic.
Who uses the right-alt button for anything anyway? The article's suggestion of using rt-alt+F2 to bring up the run dialog is just silly. You have move both of your hands from proper touch typing position to do this (because of the awkward positioning of the alt-keys), so it's not really any more efficient than the left-thumb-alt, pointer/middle-F2 combo that Many of the rest of us use.
But I do appreciate the extended key thingie he mentioned. I didn't even know about that before, but it sounds quite useful. Next time I boot into Ubuntu, I'm going to practice typing resumé and cliché a buncha times just to revel in not having to type alt-zero-two-three-three to get the é. ok I'll probably only "practice" this once, but still, it's a neat feature I didn't even know about before I heard someone complaining about it.
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
How long is your list for vista/xp?
Xp:
Step 1: Pray you have SP2 to enable firewall.
Step 2: Install 80+ updates. Reboot at least 4 times, probably one crash at least.
Step 3: Install all drivers for all hardware.
Step 4: Download and install A/V software. Suffer 10% performance penalty until the end of time.
Step 5: Download and install browser.
Step 6: Download and install decent text editor.
Step 7: Download and install cd burning software.
Step 8: Download and install dvd playing software.
Step 9: Download and install video software.
Step 10: Download and install music playing software.
Step 11: Disable tons of services in mmc services panel.
Jesus, we're not even close to done. All of these take quite a bit more time than the 7 steps outlined above, and nowhere near as stable...
The right-hand alt key is not configured... does anyone actually use the right-hand keys (alt, windows, menu context, ctrl, and shift)? I have never ever used that part of the keyboard.
I actually like the name. It's playful and disarming.
Though my favorite is still Fedora Core 6's code name, "Zod".
"Kneel before Zod!"
"Oh my god!" "Zod."
Best villain ever, I still say.
I just was wondering that if for ubuntu the version is called feisty fawn, for gaybuntu (http://gaybuntu.org) this version is called fu**in' faggot. Just for th bad taste of names tough. :)
And gluing a penny to the top of your PC lets you use imported software.
It's true! Try it!
If it bothers you that much then why can't you say that Ubuntu 7.04?
Okay you may have a point with some of the tweaks. The right alt key should work like the left but that is a preference and familiarity from Windows, but did you even read the article? What did the guy have to install to make his right alt key work? Oh right, nothing. He had to go into the preferences and set it. It's like control panel except...it's not. I also don't get it, people like you complain when the Linux desktop environment is a complete mirror image of windows or you complain that it isn't exactly like windows down to the last Icon? Which is it? I am sure the right-alt key won't make or break the experience.
Also by your logic Windows isn't ready for the desktop either, which is debated (especially by linux fanboys) but do you call having to go get the driver CD for many different pieces of hardware and installing anti-virus convenient? I think it's just habit and people like you just accept it because you are used to it. I mean Windows is on a hell of a lot more PCs than Linux is (Desktops). You guys hold Linux to this level that is unattainable and I don't think Linux will be for you for a very long time.
Turn based strategy game that runs over XMPP. Phalanx
My computer was up and running with the default install. However, it was running at a less than optimum resolution. So, I used a Ubuntu's new tool to install the proprietary NVIDIA drivers.
So, of course, my 8800GTS does not work with Ubuntu's version of NVIDIAs drivers and xorg crashed. Which is total BS since Nvidia's latest drivers (which have been around for at least a month) work with the 8800GTS.
Why alienate users?! They should have delayed the release.
(Also, where is the Fiesty Install Guide? The only one I can find is the 6.10 Install/Help Guide. Why isn't documentation released the same day as the binaries. WTF!?!)
(And...where is support for my Creative X-Fi Sound Card?!!? This isn't Ubuntu's fault, it is Creative's and ALSA's fault for not getting their asses in gear. I don't want to wait till 3rd Q of 2007 for support!!!)
Not sure I'd say that those seven tips are essential, because two of them are mutually exclusive (5 & 6).
Make sure people can pronounce your damn product name. How the hell do you say Umnbutooo?!? Is that an African word? What does it mean?!?!
i haven't seen anyone having trouble pronouncing it in the real world. it's you-boon-too.
and yes, it is an african word. it's a humanist idealology, fitting with the ubuntu motto of "linux for human beings".
though i do agree with you that the codenames are silly. still, there's no need to add it to the name.
i also don't get a lot of software names, but hey, they make it, they name it, and i might use it.
upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
(mods - this is serious, don't mod me into oblivion.)
... wouldn't it be appropriate to say "If you are outside of the areas covered by these patents, get these free implementations, otherwise go here to purchase legit ones" ?
Am I mistaken that this columnist is directing people to install unlicensed patented software?
Fluendo likely went through considerable paperwork hassle to make MPEG2, 4, and Windows Media codecs available for sale, and Thompson has a licensed MP3 decoder plugin for XMMS
You forgot step 2.5: Download and apply WGA patch
Step 0 (nil?): If you are installing on a Serial ATA/SCSI drive, grab an old 3.5" Floppy drive out of a box in the garage and install it in 'cause setup is only going look for a floppy drive at A: (Or you can slipstream them into your own installer CD. Of course, you would need a functioning OS for that.) I think drive letters are great!!!
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Some nice FUD there. My laptop works fine - upgraded yesterday without a hitch. All laptops aren't useless with 7.04. Windows has some bugs too, shall we keep that off laptops (or mod some Microsoft laptop FUD to +5)?
the nvidia-glx-new package supports the 8xxx cards. There's a long story behind why it's called new, and it's all right here:
e stricted-modules-2.6.20/+bug/96430
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-r
Don't blame launchpad for the funkiness, they had to work around nvidia's move of de-supporting a huge amount of cards that are still currently very popular.
What are the new features of the latest version of Ubuntu aside from the 3D desktop toggling? I haven't read much about it, and wondered if there were any breakthrough tools or features.
"Please, shut up. Just when I think you can't say anything more stupid, you speak again." -Archie Bunker.
Save yourself sanity. Don't use devices that only have windows drivers running through NDISwrapper. You'll get only a tiny fraction of the functionality, it'll break all the time. My experience has been that devices with in-kernel drivers are worth whatever premium. Always get the intel wireless on your laptop.
... just image how terrible it is when you are using another OS's buggy binary-only driver. You have that mental image. Now add demons pouring acid down your throat. You're approaching the reality of NDISwrapper. I think half-broken internet access is worse than no access. You just get tempted to believe that you can really get whatever from the net, only to find that when you count on connectivity, it breaks.
NDIS is the lowest level of hardware "support" in Linux. If Stallman warns about binary blobs or nonfree drivers because you don't know what the code is and the drivers stop working after the company stops maintaining them
Who is this PC World joker, anyway?
Use the Firehose to mod down Second Life stories!
Because I didn't get any sleep last night doing work building a PHP based video repository system front end that I'm hoping to tie into LDAP at somepoint for a security layer.... in the last hour I've finally hit my silly zone though and I really I should go home and get some sleep but then I would be missing my 9-5 work hours. Blah!
Parent is not off-topic, and has a point. Using code words rather than version numbers is seriously problematic
when identifying to a new user whether or not they are using the newest version, and to whether or not the packages
they are installing are obsolete.
My personal complaint is the lack of contiguity between releases. I'd really like it if I could install from an old system disk and update it to current without getting "Your system is obsolete" during an update...
Non sequitur: Your facts are uncoordinated.
Step 2 - If you were loading from old distribution CD, wouldn't you have to go through this step at least once? The last Macintosh update I got required a reboot, so I know that if I reloaded from the OSX distribution CD that I got with my system, I would need to do a reboot.
Step 3 - Most installations don't really need new drivers. With few exceptions - newer display adapters or older hardware - the base Windows install supports just about any hardware that someone has on their system. Sometimes it's limited support, but it generally works well enough to get the latest driver to fully enable it.
Step 4 - Well, yes, but that's the nature of the beast.
Steps 5 through 10 are the user's choice and has nothing to do with the installation of Windows. Each one of those components is in the base install. You may not like them and may want to use something else, but they're there.
If you're using an RT2500-based wifi card (it's a pretty common one), get the Windows driver and install it using ndiswrapper. If your wifi card is the only way your PC can access the Internet, make sure you get everything ready before you install Feisty.
My RT2500 worked fine on 6.x as long as I wasn't using WPA (which had to be set up manually and crapped out every hour), but the card won't connect at all with 7.x. From what I can tell it has something to do with Feisty using newer RT2500 drivers, which seem to be buggier than the old drivers.
Instead of disabling the right alt key as a 3rd level chooser, enable the Euro key by enabling "Add the EuroSign to the 5 key". Then the Euro actually works, by pressing right alt+5.
/. comment system ate them.)
"Menu is compose" is also useful if you don't use an international (dead keys) layout. Press the compose key (context menu) to type special characters like ë é è ê and others. (I used " ' ` ^ . and , for those. If you only see 4 characters, then the
That's "Zod."
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
I've always pronounced it oo-BUN-two. I never bothered to look it up and it wasn't anywhere obvious.
Looks like we were both wrong on one syllable.
http://www.ubuntu.com/aboutus/faq
How do you pronounce Ubuntu?
Ubuntu, an African word from Zulu and Xhosa, is pronounced "oo-BOON-too".
If you REALLY want a headache, try getting Ubuntu to recognize the s-video output or a second monitor on your video card. You almost have to sacrifice a goat.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
My problem with upgrading recently was how Ubuntu handled my Grub menu.lst. The box I am referring to has /hda1 as a FAT drive with the system restore junk for WinXP. /hda2 is WinXP. /hda3 is Linux. One of the late alpha (or was it early beta) updates redid the menu.lst to map to UUID numbers instead of the more user friendly /hdX series.
/hda1 is Linux, and /hda2 is WinXP. Naturally, the latter is right, and I haven't the time to go back and correct the box so that it points to the right partition. I would, if I knew enough about UUIDs.
The problem is that it thinks
Could somebody explain why we left the old way?
My other issue is the FF series uses a more recent driver for my Linksys wireless PCI card---a release that has been broken since December. The professed solution is to recompile. I used to use Gentoo, so I can handle that; but this is Ubuntu---I shouldn't have to.
What those who want activist courts fear is rule by the people.
Simple workaround: kill the hald-addon-storage process. Your laptop won't autodetect when CDs or DVDs are inserted anymore, but it stops the lockups.
Nice job linking to an unconfirmed bug. How do we know this isn't your fubared hardware causing this problem? And based on your sample of one you conclude that all folks with laptops should avoid Feisty? That's a load of bull.
Feisty has worked fine on my laptop for one month since I installed the beta release. These people work very hard testing the kernel on many different systems, including laptops.
Yeah, because a stupid name has certainly hurt Wii sales...
Or you could call it Ubuntu 7 - The free one.
This is an interesting problem, which you've underlined very well.
The Official name of the product is "Ubuntu 7.04" and it's released and supported by a company called Canonical. "Beryl" has nothing to do with it, and "Feisty Fawn" is just a developer codename. The fact that there is no coherent marketing effort that is more powerful than random word of mouth legitimately does lead to confusion. The only way this will get better is as Canonical gets more support contracts and is able to dedicate a significant budget to Marketing / Public Relations. Being optimistic, we can expect that to happen in the near future.
-- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
This may have been true in 1995 and, as evidenced by your post, it still makes for a nice marketing message, but it is no longer the case. The bulk of FOSS development is done by people who are paid to do it and the companies who pay them most certainly expect that investment to pay off.
From the Ubuntu FAQ's, it's pronounced "oo-BOON-too", so apparently some people do have trouble pronouncing it ;)
And gluing a penny to the top of your PC lets you use imported software.
It's true! Try it!
It works, but make sure Lincoln is facing UP. If you glue the coin heads-down, ol' Abe gets pissed and sends gamma rays thru your RAM, randomly causing errors and crashing. ECC RAM helps, but eventually the wailing of the damned will get to you. The only way to fix this without prying off the penny is to 'apt-get install van-helsing'. The van-helsing package will take care of your undead problem, but will probably trash your filesystem.
(yeah, it's Friday and I want to get out of here...)
sudo eat my shorts
Just wanted to point out that Hyperic HQ, an open source systems management project, supports Feisty Fawn "out of the box" today. Actually, we support most Linux distributions out of the box.
If you're looking to monitor and/or manage your Ubuntu machines, you may want to check us out - http://www.hyperic.com/downloads/
-John Mark
Hyperic Community Manager
Hyperic Community Manager
So, when I get to the command prompt, I should type sudo apt-get remove nvidia-glx, and then sudo apt-get install nvidia-glx-new ?
*Sigh* I am annoyed that this new tool didn't detect which version of the proprietary driver I needed!!!
There is nothing wrong with the operation of Alt Gr. In the past there was a problem when distributors of Linux were too stupid to realize that not everybody only uses english.
As for Beryl I got a good laugh on this. The first time I had that accidentally enabled on Fedora I thought that some Trojan was in action. It took me a while to figure out how to disable this nonsense because I didn't know what was doing this. When I switch from one desktop to another I want a quick switch. Whoever came up with this 3D flipping of the screen must have been on crack.
There's a new note in that thread that there's a work around available at the end of this thread
Is this more a problem of UBUNTU or a problem of XORG? Don't knock something that isn't UBUNTU's fault.
After installing the VMware tools the scroll wheel on most mice will become disabled. To fix this:
/etc/X11/xorg.conf (Or with what ever text editor you wish.)
1. sudo -i (To become root.)
2. nano
3. In the Section "InputDevice" for your mouse change the line under "Protocol" that says, "ps/2" to "ImPS/2".
4. Restart X. (ctrl-alt-backspace, reboot, etc)
Really, I know what I'm doing...Ohhhh, look at the shiny buttons!
If you don't have SP2, forget it. Turn off your computer, get your golf clubs or your tennis racket, or whatever, and go play outside. You can't use a computer nowadays with XP without SP2.
Step 3 - Most installations don't really need new drivers. With few exceptions
Correction: most *Linux* installations don't need new drivers. Most Microsoft installation needs new drivers, so those are what you call "few exceptions", I suppose. Any hardware that came after the Windows version you have installed needs a CD with the driver. Considering that Microsoft only releases a new version of Windows every few years, it's a practical certainty that you'll need to insert a few driver CDs in every Windows system you install from scratch.
All in all, from your comments I conclude that you have never installed either Ubuntu or any other Linux distro. You think all the bother one has to go through to install Windows is perfectly normal, or "the nature of the beast" as you put it. Well, it just doesn't need to be so.
The difference between Linux fanboys and Windows fanboys is that almost everyone has or had in the past a Windows computer, but not everyone has a Linux system. The Linux developers know all the quirks in a Windows installation and they try to do something better when they create their own solutions for Linux. The Windows people think it's so nice when XP reboots automatically instead of showing a blue screen, because they have never seen a system like Linux where a device driver crashing doesn't bring the whole system down. They think it's so easy to go to CompUSA, buy a software, get home, insert the CD and click in "D:\setup.exe" because they have never seen something like synaptic or adept where you can install any application from the 20000+ that are available online by a single click of the mouse. The Windows experts, or "power users", feel so proud about their detailed knowledge of whatever binary data they have to edit in the registry because they have never felt the pleasure of editing text files in the
I used to be a Windows expert, I knew it intimately, down to the "undocumented" functions. I wrote many applications for Windows, I debugged many Windows systems, even to the point of running a disassembler on some device drivers to find why they were crashing. Today I have fully shifted to Ubuntu, although I still use and maintain a Windows computer for some games. I know of no one that ever learned Linux to the point that I learned Windows that has shifted back to a Microsoft system.
People who know Windows a lot and something of Linux may prefer Windows, and vice-versa, but if you really know intimately both systems, to the point of being able to write a device driver, as I have done for both Linux and Windows, you'll never, ever, shift from Linux to Windows.
Try contributing to the project, it might make you a happier person.
>And gluing a penny to the top of your PC lets you use imported software.
>It's true! Try it!
It works, but make sure Lincoln is facing UP.
Unless you're in the southern hemisphere, then you make him face DOWN. C'mon, people, not everyone lives in the USA! *sheesh*
Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'Humanity to others', or 'I am what I am because of who we all are'. The Ubuntu distribution brings the spirit of Ubuntu to the software world.
S-video out isn't OS controlled, if you have it plugged in to the tv at boot it will work. Period. Also, double monitors (i.e. one desktop over two screens) is simple too. If you have ATI, just use the command line aticonfig --dtop=horizontal --overlay-on=1
t ors.html/
Or if you just installed the ATI drivers then run aticonfig --initial=dual-head
For more info, and NVIDIA instructions see http://www.yolinux.com/TUTORIALS/LinuxAndDualMoni
--Drive carefully. 90% of people are caused by accidents.
this isnt even close to ready for the desktop
it doesnt even support the ati mobile chipsets
I tried on two different machines and it failed both times
whereas debian 4.0 is fine on both
back in the day we didnt have no old school
Never use sudo with a graphical application (like gedit) but instead gksudo. You could mess your your permissions for good. Sudo is for command line apps only.
The Nvidia drivers are somewhat of a pain. Try the guide here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowt o/Nvidia
I don't have any experience with the s-video output, but getting my second monitor working on my Edgy install (haven't updated that machine yet) was a little annoying (at least in first figuring out what it was I needed) to get it working, but it certainly didn't require sacrificing a goat.
/etc/X11/xorg.conf
Of course I was able to just use the twinview option of my nvidia drivers, but it was far easier than the hoops I needed to jump through to get it working on my previous Gentoo install (and even that wasn't terribly bad). One advantage I've noticed for xinerama over twinview is that with xinerama I could run two full screen applications (one in each window), and twinview seems to just utilize the primary monitor and ignore the second one.
Step 1: Install xinerama or twinview (if you have nvidia drivers, you already have it)
Step 2: Make a few adjustments to
Granted, if you're a new user, editing your X config file can be a little overwhelming or make you nervous, but once you're done it a few times, it's not so bad.
That wouldn't be a problem if you were using a drive manufactured in the southern hemisphere. The discs spin the other way there.
Feisty Fawn with "Beryl", whoever she is, written by a whole bunch of random geeks.
It is not the exact name. If you want to be so precise, it is called Ubuntu 7.04 (aka Feisty Fawn). That name is just out of convenience so that everytime you refer to ubuntu you don't have to say Ubuntu 7.04...you can just say Feisty. On the project's main page (www.ubuntu.com), I don't see the name Feisty anywhere. BTW, Ubuntu is also supported by a company called Canonical...albeit lesser known of the previous two.
Make that some laptops. I'm running 7.04 on a ThinkPad T30 and I've had no problems at all.
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
"
:-)
Windows has some bugs too, shall we keep that off laptops (or mod some Microsoft laptop FUD to +5)?
"
You must be new here
Quite right, this whole naming thing just makes Linux look unprofessional. Instead Linux should emulate the professional sounding names like Windows Vi...uh, I mean Max OSX Ti...wait...
Seriously though, do you tell your parents they're running "Vista" or that they're running "Windows"? Do you say "Mac OSX" or "Tiger"? If you don't like calling it "Feisty Fawn", just call it "Linux", or even "Ubuntu 7.04".
http://www.mhall119.com
now there are tips for "making sure the Alt key works right"
Linux Mint. An Ubuntu based distro that uses French female release names. The latest release is Bianca and the next one will be Casandra. So you can tell you parents it's Mint Linux, Bianca, as opposed to Ubuntu, Feisty Fawn. Also, the blue/green theme it uses out of the box looks nicer than the orange/brown of Ubuntu.
http://linuxmint.com//
FYI: it is spelled thingy not thingie
Well, the main reason that drove me to KDE from gnome was that could never get the AltGR key working properly (it worked as a regular alt). That key is used in spanish keyboards to get some symbols like @ and #.
Yet, you overlooked my forgetting to close the tag?
> S-video out isn't OS controlled, if you have it plugged in to the tv at boot it will work
That's funny, it's controlled by the video driver on my laptop (SIS741) under Windows XP. Why wouldn't it be OS-controlled under Linux?
That doesn't really make sense. I used to get furious at winblows because it made me reboot because I wasnted to change my DNS server. Now you're telling me that I have to *hard reboot* a Linux box because I want to plug in a TV? I mean, WTF?!
Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
That wouldn't be a problem if you were using a drive manufactured in the southern hemisphere. The discs spin the other way there.
Spinning discs? What century are you living in? You need to move to the solid state!
I'm not sure what the article is talking about with the 'Alt' key thing - I haven't experienced that with my feisty.
Both Windows and Linux have elements that are complex and can't be done by very beginner users. The advantage Windows has is that there are many knowledgable users around who know how to fix these things. Linux is still unfamiliar territory for many people.
I can call tech support at my old ISP and they will support Windows, but not Linux.
Our culture breathes Windows - it is what people are familiar with. I was helping someone with their new Mac yesterday. It was difficult to make the DVD I was playing not take up the whole screen. I know the key combination in Windows. On the Mac, I was lost. It was a foreign experience.
Linux isn't ready because the world isn't ready for Linux.
I am very comfortable with configuring and working, etc... and I love my Ubuntu. Would have a hard time going back to anything else. But the world doesn't think Linux yet.
I disagree with using 'Automatix'. If you just installed the package ubuntu-restricted-extras you would of achieved the same result (flash, mp3, sun java6, dvd etc support).
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
Hey Dude, there's this company called Dell. They did steps 1-10 before they shipped me the box.
But then there's the box I made myself. I'll respond to your FUD point by point there...
> How long is your list for vista/xp?
>
> Xp:
>
> Step 1: Pray you have SP2 to enable firewall.
You don't have the budget for a router while you get SPs and ZoneAlarm (or equivalent) installed?
> Step 2: Install 80+ updates. Reboot at least 4 times, probably one crash at least.
Not actually that bad --and nothing like this with a slipstreamed install. Where are you getting these ancient install disks?
> Step 3: Install all drivers for all hardware.
Plug-n-play simplicity itself --Windows handled it.
> Step 4: Download and install A/V software. Suffer 10% performance penalty until the end of time.
True. WMP is, in fact, inadequate. It's a little annoying to find and install all my favorite software (steps 4-10), but it's not as if I'm going to use/keep all the apps that ship with any distro either.
> Step 5: Download and install browser.
> Step 6: Download and install decent text editor.
> Step 7: Download and install cd burning software.
> Step 8: Download and install dvd playing software.
> Step 9: Download and install video software.
> Step 10: Download and install music playing software.
> Step 11: Disable tons of services in mmc services panel.
Agreed, step 11 sucks and belies a crap security model. But... It's also the flip side of having to enable tons of services.
Look... No OS is perfect, but it's so annoying the way Windoze, Apple, or Linux fanboys act like their shit don't stink. Please. Like everything else, there are pros and cons, with tradeoffs to be made with any OS. It may make you feel better to vent, but we've already heard it. We already know the million ways that Microsoft sucks. Save it for your blog or journal.
I'm not so hot for the "Feisty Fawn" name. I'm upgrading my 6.06 LTS (Dapper Drake) install and listening to "I Want A New Duck". Unfortunately, all I get is a skittish newt and, later, a hyperactive baby deer. I want a new duck, dammit!
Works just fine. And I'm on Dapper. (6.06)
It's Altgr+E, right next to Altgr+3 (pound) and Altgr+4 (dollar).
I guess it depends on your keyboard layout and settings.
Yeah, because it's so hard to figure out the proper versioning sequence of Dapper Drake, Edgy Eft, and Feisty Fawn...
"Unheard of means only it's undreamed of yet,
Impossible means not yet done." ~~ Julia Ecklar
Step 1 - You either have SP2 or you don't. If you don't, install whatever version you have and download the update (that'll also cut down the number of reboots on step 2). If you're worried about viruses, download a freeware AV package before you do the update.
Are you insane? If you don't have SP2 and you are not in a secure network, then you are infected before you have finished a download. 12 minutes in 2005.
"When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
And no, there is no _decent text editor in the default install. No DVD player either. And no functional video player (unable to play DivX == not functional). You are talking about OEM installs with extras.
"When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
or for the CLI impaired: install nvidia-settings from apt , a nice gui which makes multimonitor setup with feisty a breeze.
Doolittle :
Bomb no.20 : To explode of course.
I use the right alt with the left arrow key to go back in my browser. I usually use the keyboard when I can...
Zombie Lincoln doesn't care if you're using bubble memory, Winchester drives, floptical disks, or these newfangled solid state drives you kids are using these days. If he's not facing the right way, you will suffer the consequences.
sudo eat my shorts
Try Feisty Faggot. That'll turn ya'.
Does your computer have an Intel "Morningwood" processor?
You know, my hardware works with Ubuntu, so I used get pissed that people say things like "Ubuntu never works" and "horrible hardware support" or "the live cd fails to boot", but when you go to the effort to link to a launchpad bug about it, with several subscribers, I'm forced to admit that Ubuntu is not perfect. And I think its fair to warn people, especially when one of the computers affected is a laptop built and sold with Ubuntu on it. Point is, your personal situation is one point -- an anecdote, not data.
It's better to acknowledge that your users may encounter problems than pretend they don't exist. Normally, I'd point to this flaw as why you should try out beta releases of Ubuntu, but this was found fairly early on, and still hasn't been adequately fixed. On the one hand, Ubuntu doesn't write the linux kernel, so there's only so much they can do on most fronts and offer for free to the public. On the other, Ubuntu made some pretty strong promises that most people probably interpret differently than the Ubuntu Foundation does. Most people would assume that fixing driver bugs would be part of the support commitment, but the Foundation seems most concerned (and rightly so) about security fixes.
I Browse at +4 Flamebait
Open Source Sysadmin
3) Feisty Fawn with "Beryl", whoever she is, written by a whole bunch of random geeks.
Just call it "Ubuntu". Is that so hard?
#!/
If you're my crossword loving grandmother, you might recognize the word "beryl" as a class of precious gem. This explains the icon, and names, at least. As for the random geeks, I'm not sure why random geeks hired by Microsoft are different than the ones working on beryl, though the company itself might be different.
I Browse at +4 Flamebait
Open Source Sysadmin
You don't need to reboot the whole machine, just restart the x server.
:-)
I've had quite a bit of difficulty getting my s-video output to work under Ubuntu, as well. I'd be more frustrated if it wasn't for the fact that it isn't exactly a piece of cake under Windows, either.
A post a day keeps productivity at bay.
Absolutely not! I'm not debating whether the product itself is good - I'm a professional developer, and we're currently working on some embedded Linux projects, so I know the ins and outs of the benefits. Beyond a shadow of a doubt, Linux has come along leaps and bounds, and I would seriously consider it for the desktop if I were switching.
That's not the point, though. My boss, an IT-literate (as opposed to tech-literate) guy who has run a web dev firm for 8 years, is looking at it from a business perspective and it not familiar with the various distros. If his IT consultant suggests Ubuntu "Feisty Fawn" over Windows, it's not good enough to say it's better as he has no benchmark in real day-to-day terms, so he *can only* go on his perception of the brand.
"Vista" is not linguistically clever as a name, but it is focus grouped and you can guarantee MS spent a fortune working out, completely separately to the software development, how the public should see their product - and this is regardless of any actual features. Just look at Windows ME - it took a good few months for home users to work out they'd been conned into choosing an inferior product.
Open Sourcers seem to display a (slightly charming, admittedly) naivite about how marketing works - eye height, smells and audio are a big part of supermarket sales, for example, and unless thought is put into the tiny details like that, Linux will never get the chance to display its strengths to the wider world. That would be a terrible shame: once users get over the initial hurdle of acceptance, there's certainly enough there to keep them playing with the new platform's improvements.
sig:- (wit >= sarcasm)
Great...
Mom: Johny, what are you doing up there? Dinner!
Johny: I'll be right down, Mom! I'm just mounting Bianca!
Seriously, though, I don't see there's a problem with the names. People I've introduced to Linux seem to find it kind of charming. The "businesses don't take these names seriously" argument is silly. Suits are people, too. And there _are_ version numbers if you need to sound all corporate.
Personality is not a bad marketing tool.
This is the voice of World Control. I bring you Peace.
Well this was a tough predicament, and there's no great way to go about fixing it that I can think of. This was a last minute (week) change ubuntu did in order to _not_ alienate 50%+ (out of my ass figure, but it's damn high) of their userbase.
I suspect the next release will deal with this in a more respectable way, and grant my personal apology that two of my machines led me to contribute to this problem, but for now we'll have to deal with it.
Yes, I believe you can do:
sudo apt-get --purge remove nvidia-glx
sudo apt-get install nvidia-glx-new
and it will work.
That's no guarantee, as I haven't tested it myself (The best I have is a 7900).
Wow. That's fantastic. I used to use Linux in various incarnations as my main desktop OS. I root for it every day to continue improving. And it has improved, in so many ways. But it seems to be approaching true polish and usability on an asymptotic curve rather than a more linear progression. When even what are widely considered the best, most usable and user friendly distributions of Linux continue to be shipped out with bad showstopper bugs in full release versions, and basic usability features like automatic determination of your video card and monitor specs are still unreliable, it isn't there yet. Fail.
I still see an awful lot of terminal commands in that article and in the wiki links for fixing problems. I can
And what the hell is the deal with X11 anyway? Is it really that difficult to build in some fallback safe video modes for unidentified cards or screwed up config files, or to do whatever else is necessary to make sure that the user will ALWAYS be able to get back into his GUI desktop without expert help? That's a rhetorical question, the answer is no. It isn't that difficult to build in some simple fault tolerance in places where inexperienced users often get bitten, trapped and frustrated. How exactly is the user supposed to go search the wiki online for help fixing X11 when he only has one computer available and he can't figure out how to get X11 to start? Come on people. I should not be reading recent articles from users of the most recent and popular distros that talk about getting stuck at the command line. Fail.
I don't know, maybe I'm just crazy or something, but in my opinion this stuff should be top priority for anyone building a distro aimed at non-geeks. Even geeks appreciate a system that's simple to tweak or fix with a few clicks, if the number of migrations from Linux to OS X is any indicator (count me in that group). I'm waiting for the day when a Linux distro can hold a candle to OS X, but in terms of usability it really seems like there has been only marginal improvement over the last few years. So many prerequisite desktop features still have the feeling of being hacked together out of spare parts. The individual components may be coming from standards but the overall system still has no feeling of coherence. If anyone else actually wants to see a Year of the Linux Desktop someday these simple issues have got to be addressed or it will be a loooong time coming.
Note that I have made statements here about my feelings, impressions, and opinions, so don't try to argue with me as if we're talking about factual data. If there were a distro out there that could change my mind I would have already heard about it and tried it out by now. Yes, I continue to test drive recent releases periodically, and no, they haven't changed my mind at all. "Desktop Linux" simply isn't anywhere near the level of usability and coherence it will take to actually threaten Windows or Mac OS X and begin to dominate the home computing world. Developers are aiming way too low.
there is an easy way to deal with it, have the restricted device manager detect what kind of video card you have and install the correct driver. This should have already been implemented for deciding whether to install the legacy drivers or the regular drivers.
being vague is almost as cool as doing that other thing...
Make sure people can pronounce your damn product name. How the hell do you say Umnbutooo?!? Is that an African word? What does it mean?!?!
i haven't seen anyone having trouble pronouncing it in the real world. it's you-boon-too.
There's a video somewhere where they interview Nelson Mandela and ask him what Ubuntu means. In that, he pronounced it as U-(the same sound as the word food)-bun-(short, as in book)-tu(long again, as in food).
Seeing as I'm Australian, I pronounce the U at the beginning of the word with a y sound at the start. Mandela however didn't do that, and I'm expecting Americans won't either.
You forgot the Jokers line from the first Batman movie. "How do I get this wonderful WGA product? Don't worry... you already have it! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! ..."
"Be grateful for what you have. You may never know when you may lose it."
So how do I resolve this for my X60, which doesn't have any sort of optical drive?
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
If you REALLY REALLY want a headache try to decompress a file from an archive by using fileroller and drag and drop. It is impossible with nautilus.
Hmm, maybe you could pass on the message to them that "Bianca" is Italian and "Casandra" Spanish ... just in case they don't know.
Wait a minute. Drake. Eft. Fawn. Gibbon. D, e, f, g... It's almost as if... as if starting with Dapper Drake, they had implemented some kind of diabolical, yet ALPHABETICAL SEQUENCE in their naming scheme! Good lord, but these Ubuntu chaps are clever!
*shifty eyed glance*
Too clever, by half, I say!
Documentation is boring. Nobody wants to do it. Most people try to make writing documentation as easy as possible for themselves, instead of making it as easy as possible for the reader.
Copying or creating a few command line instructions is much easier than creating a bunch of screen shots and circling where to click. That's why even when there are multiple easy ways to do something with a nice GUI, almost all documentation is for command line methods.
I don't blame anyone at all, but it really is a shame.
But, what happens once you reach Zesty Zebra?
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
Have you ever heard of slipstreaming? Apparently not.
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master."
So I put feisty on my iBoook because it is fasster and cleaner to write little python scripts than OS X. and it is great. I decided to keep gnome instead of fluxbox... just cause I am lazy... and there are a few little bits that are useful for a laptop... battery monitor, app launcher, etc. and honestly I don't know what is the best window manager anymore anyuway... but gnome seems to not be quite the goat it was...
but damn... why would I want to kluge all of this garbage that they talk about in the article to slow the thing down to commercial speed.
I have feisty for having 4 terms and a few emacs sessions... and it is kickin fast... even with the bloat of gnome...
I just don't understand these "helpful" articles.
If I wanted a helpful article, it would be how to set up fluxbox on feisty and identification of some dock/wharf apps that allow for laptop status monitoring. That would be cool. Not... how to slow down your graphics card, run a key binding and dupe pron.
Still... yeah, it is cool to see the pissant crap of the mainstream at least make it into the mainstream howto's
I am just dirgressing tooo mcuh.
dammit... whiy isn't fluxbox a simple option at install?
argh/.
A default Feisty installation comes with full drivers for everything (printers, scanners, etc), a fully featured enterprise-level office suite, a powerful and secure internet browser, an organizer and email client, a decent image editor, a PDF reader, a photo manager, CD burning software, Video and DVD playback software (less codecs), a zip/rar/tar/7z/bz2 archive tool, a BitTorrent client, built-in interpreters for a variety languages including Python and Perl, no superfluous services to chew up your CPU cycles, and access to a colossal library of software where you can simultaneously install literally thousands of applications at the click of a button.
It would take hours, even days of painstaking labor and endless reboots to get a Windows box up to this level of utility. That's why tools like InstallPad exist, and they give you only a small teaser of what the Ubuntu software library is like.
Or maybe that "Casandra" is actually Greek in origin. But you know, sometimes people just make mistakes, and you can just leave it alone and not be an ass unessarily to someone else. Just in case you didn't know.
The bulk of FOSS development is done by people who are paid to do it and the companies who pay them most certainly expect that investment to pay off.
I very much doubt that most FOSS development is done by people explicitly paid to do it though certain high profile projects may well be developed that way.
Afaict most free software development is done either by hobbyists or by people fixing stuff because they need the fix.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
"When even what are widely considered the best, most usable and user friendly distributions of Linux continue to be shipped out with bad showstopper bugs in full release versions, and basic usability features like automatic determination of your video card and monitor specs are still unreliable, it isn't there yet. Fail."
You know, I've been wondering this for years: is this caused by bad engineering, or is it because there are too many different broken hardware out there? I'm increasingly suspecting that it's the latter: you have to write thousands of different workarounds for thousands of different bugs in thousands of different kinds of monitors and video cards.
Am I the only one who hasn't experienced any video hardware problems in Linux for 6 years now?
*Is* it? Sure, command line looks harder, but is copy & pasting a single command in the terminal and pressing Enter, really harder than clicking on 10 buttons in a GUI? Wouldn't the first be easier because it's just 1 action?
To people familiar with a command line, copy & pasting can be easier. But for people who aren't, it is much much more difficult.
For a distribution aimed at advanced users who prefer the command line over GUIs, it would be perfectly fine, even desirable, to provide mostly/entirely command line instructions. But for a distribution like Ubuntu, documentation should be for GUI front ends whenever a GUI front end is available. Ubuntu is clearly aimed at people who aren't familiar with the command line.
Some people think it's a better idea to get new users to learn the command line, but I think that's a terrible approach. An operating system should conform to its users, not the other way around.
Yeah but the guides don't teach you commandline - they just tell you to copy & paste some text verbatim. There is nothing to learn. Why is that difficult?
And back in 1997, there was a book called "Windows 95 voor Kinderen" ("Windows 95 for Children") - you can guess that the book was for. The book was accompanied with a floppy disk with some software. The book's installation instructions tell the user to install the software by:
1. Clicking on Start->Run...
2. Entering "A:\install"
3. Clicking on OK.
This is essentially the same as copy & pasting a command. Yet nobody experienced this as difficult. So why is a commandline experienced as difficult even when you're doing nothing more than copy & pasting?
Even if all a user has to do is copy some text, open a terminal, paste the text, and hit enter, they may still have problems. Most tutorials don't include instructions on how to open a terminal. Many users don't know how to copy and paste text, and rewriting is error prone and possibly dangerous. Users may be confused when Ctrl+V doesn't paste the text.
/dev/hda1, /dev/hda2, etc. Most commands for Ubuntu assume the user is running Gnome.
And it's usually not just copy and paste. What if an error occurs? What if the user need to enter information? What if the command depends on their setup? Most people won't know if / is on
Even if that doesn't cause problems, it's still very scary if hundreds of lines start spilling out onto the screen, and it's very scary to be doing something without any understanding of what's going on. The command line is just plain scary to most people, and it's important to make users feel comfortable.
What's a terminal? Isn't that a place where planes and trains stop so people can get on and off? What's a command line? Am I supposed to line up somewhere? Copy what? Paste what where?
I know that like most geeks you don't realize or are unwilling to accept it, but you are an elitist. You judge how easy computing tasks are based on prior knowledge so extensive that you don't even consciously remember most of it, you just use it as if you were born with it. You think of this unconscious knowledge base as a set of skills and assume that all people have these skills, and that if they are confused by something you find simple they obviously aren't trying hard enough.
I know this because I'm also afflicted with this condition. I often deal with computer-illiterate people and have to bite my tongue to avoid saying something disdainful like, "How the hell can you not know how to copy and paste something into a terminal window?". They just don't. You have to accept it. When you're designing software, you have to constantly stop and ask yourself, "Do I know how to do this because it's really obvious, or because I have knowledge that helps me understand what to do?" You have to think, "Will someone who has never even seen a computer be able to understand how to fix this, or be able to easily search for and accurately find help for this issue from within the software?" If the answer is no, that's a bad sign for usability issues.
By the way, why are you comparing a single terminal command with 10 clicks in the GUI? Biased much? I know a lot of things are easier to accomplish in the shell, but worst case scenario of transferring any action to the GUI should be at most 6 total clicks. Any developer that can't get access to an action below 10 clicks is an idiot and shouldn't be working on usability issues. A smart developer should be able to provide a path to any commonly needed action within about 3 clicks or less. Doesn't the user also have to click something in the GUI just to open the terminal? Eh? Think about that.
No, I'm sure you aren't the only one who hasn't experienced any video problems with Linux for years. But as I always try to explain to people, you're asking the wrong question. The important question is, has anyone experienced video problems with Linux, and how bad were those problems? Were they able to recover from those problems on their own recognizance? Did it stop them from being able to reach their desktop? Because for most people the desktop GUI is "the computer", and failure to display the desktop to even a single user out of ten thousand should be considered a showstopper level bug. To a user who has no idea how to use the command line (the majority of the masses that distros like Ubuntu are aimed at), it is tantamount to not being able to boot up at all. The GUI should ALWAYS come up short of a major hardware issue stopping the video card from physically working in even the most minimal graphics mode.
Sure, the ridiculous chaos of buggy PC hardware contributes to the problem, but most hardware conforms at least partially to certain standards and works fine. For instance all video cards for years have supported at least the unaccelerated VESA 2.0 video modes. When was the last time you saw a Windows machine fall back to the command line because it didn't have the correct video driver installed? You've never seen it, because Windows happily boots up in a universally supported 640x480x16bpp video mode that works on 99.9% of the cards out there. It's called "VGA". Then you fix the driver and reboot. You can even get online and find/download the driver because you aren't stuck at the command line going, "OK, what the hell do I do now?"
Developers are lazy, that's all there is to it. They would rather write lengthy wiki articles (which obviously an isolated user would be unable to read because he can't get to his desktop and GUI web browser, the only one he knows how to use) in which they describe a dozen steps each individual user can feel free to try for themselves. Would it be that hard to integrate those steps into a GUI that would run those same terminal commands in the background or do that same Google search in order to help the user apply the right hardware information? Would it be that hard to set up the GUI in a way that would allow the user to add or try out some possibly unsupported video modes manually? Nope, it's not that hard, but it's a little bit harder than writing wiki articles, so the users are left floundering.
Hardware identification is definitely not easy, but it could be conquered to a much greater extent if Linux distros would come up with some method of actively gathering precise hardware information into a centralized and automated database. A simple scripted GUI could run all the relevant terminal commands and ask the user a few questions about model numbers and brands, then shoot it all off to the central hardware information repository. The data would be either added or verified, and every time a single user of that same hardware did a Linux install the hardware detection would be automatic. They're doing it for identifying tracks on audio CDs, it should be just as easy to do the same for other hardware.
But my main gripe remains with the lack of fault tolerance and fallback modes. To LInuxites it seems that "safe mode" still translates to "command line", and that just doesn't fly. They can do better.
Xp:
Step 1: With the network turned off, right click on My Computer, check the property sheet for SP2.
Step 2: Without SP2, install SP2 from the CD I have for that purpose and restart.
Step 3: Install and run Autopatcher (or any of the competition)from that same CD.
Step 4: Install Anti-virus software from that same CD.
Step 5: Restart.
Step 6: Install Firefox browser and plugins like AdBlock and NoScript from that same CD.
Step 7: Install drivers for printers/scanners.
Step 8: Install whatever personally chosen optional programs the user requires to make the computer useful to them.
I had to pad the list to clear more than 7 steps to a secure Windows. But then, so did you with a bunch of optional crap some of which is technically unnecessary as burning software, text editors and media playing software are already included with the OS itself. I would require that an image editing program like Photoshop or PSP be installed. I'd also like Exact Audio Copy and Nero, plus Cygwin. But that's me. Other people may have other needs.
Notice too that if SP2 were already there (It was released in 2004 after all), it would be 6 steps. I have never had to install drivers for anything other than a smart device like a scanner since Win2k. Even relative oddities like USB network adaptors have always just worked. Sometimes the manufacturers' install will give you more functionality, but basic operation is straightforward.
Notmysig
Who uses the right-alt button for anything anyway? The article's suggestion of using rt-alt+F2 to bring up the run dialog is just silly.
For many users, the key is probably more useful left as assigned in Ubuntu. IIRC it is then functioning the same way as the "option" modifier key on Macintosh(TM) keyboards.
One of the better known uses is access of other characters in fonts.
Bueno?
"I know that like most geeks you don't realize or are unwilling to accept it, but you are an elitist."
Dude, that was an honest question. All I want is some polite discussion and then you suddenly go screaming around and calling people "elitist". Shees, what the hell is your problem?
And no I didn't bother read the rest of my post. As soon as you said "elitist" I know you're just someone with a passionate, irrational hate for technologists.
"Documentation is boring. Nobody wants to do it. Most people try to make writing documentation as easy as possible for themselves, instead of making it as easy as possible for the reader."
Please, can you speak for yourself? Do you have any idea how many hours I spent on writing http://www.autopackage.org/docs/howto-install/ ? I took the time to launch 2 different desktop environments and to take screenshots from 4 different file managers. I circled the exact buttons that people have to click on. I did my best to write everything without using jargon. I tried my best to use as little text as possible, to describe things as unambiguously as possibly, and to layout things as readably as possible. I took the time to make nice thumbnails with drop shadows. At first I even refused to provide commandline instructions and wanted everybody to use the GUI - the only reason why I added it later is because users kept asking for it.
And now you suddenly jump out of the bushes, calling me an elitist? Seriously, you need to stop applying stereotypes to people. Frankly I'm offended. After all the work I've put in ensuring that things are as easy as possible for the end user, you destroy everything and by pasting a stupid stereotype label on me, while ignoring all the hard work that I've done.
You've created some very nice documentation. And although I absolutely do not blame anyone at all, I really do wish such quality was more common.
I see now why you think I called you an elitist, but that was RedBear (207369), not me. I'm HeroreV (869368) and I just said that most (certainly not all) documentation sucks because documentation is hard, not that documenters are lazy or elitist or anything.
Oh, sorry. I misread the Slashdot threading. :(
Well good for you. You say you didn't read the rest of my post as if it were an action to be proud of, so, I congratulate you. But maybe if you and the equally dumbass*/kneejerk/insecure moderator who gave me a "flamebait" mod had actually read the entire post you'd realize that I'm not a screaming luddite at all, I'm just a geek with a different opinion about how "easy" things are for regular people. An opinion based on years of experience with regular people, the kind of people who have trouble with basic email and often forget where the power button on their computer is located. I was trying to make you aware of certain assumptions you base your own opinions on, assumptions that you are probably not aware of most of the time and cause you to incorrectly assume that a particular acivity will be "easy" for everyone.
Whatever "screaming" you heard was in your own head based on your personal reaction to a word which apparently holds a lot more emotional charge for you than it does for me. I used the word in the dictionary sense of you "favoring a select group" when defining the concept of computer usability. You, ME, and most every other geek here is guilty of this unconscious attitude to some degree, usually without completely realizing it. I am making the statement that this is why the usability of "desktop Linux" still gets a failing grade in comparison to Windows and Mac OS X. Because the developers behind it are all part of our unconsciously elitist group of geeks who think the command line is perfectly simple.
To them/you/me, the command line is so simple in fact that it's obviously better than a GUI, no matter who is using the computer. So that's how they continue to design the system, and the regular users are left with a ton of gaps in the GUI where they have to acquire knowledge and copy/paste words they will never understand into a command line terminal that they will likewise never understand. Sure, they can follow instructions, but they won't learn why they're doing any of it or how to know if the instructions are telling them to do the wrong thing. There is nothing about the command line that is better for those who don't understand how it works.
I guess I should put in some smilies and LOLs next time so my "tone of voice" comes across better. Not using any exclamation points!!!1!!!one is apparently not enough to avoid being accused of screaming my head off.
Your loss.
* Too bad you aren't going to read past this word either. You might have learned something.
Oh and you seriously think accusing people of being an "elitist" is going to make your point clear?
Do you have any idea how many hours I spent on writing http://www.autopackage.org/docs/howto-install/ [autopackage.org] ? I took the time to launch 2 different desktop environments and to take screenshots from 4 different file managers. I circled the exact buttons that people have to click on. I did my best to write everything without using jargon. I tried my best to use as little text as possible, to describe things as unambiguously as possibly, and to layout things as readably as possible. I took the time to make nice thumbnails with drop shadows. I let non-technical people proofread the guide. At first I even refused to provide commandline instructions and wanted everybody to use the GUI - the only reason why I added it later is because users kept asking for it.
I did all this hard work for the sake of anonymous end users whose face I will never see. Nor will I ever get any reward for it. And now you suddenly jump out of the bushes, calling me an elitist? Seriously, you need to stop applying stereotypes to people.
Wow... my list is so much shorter.
Xp:
Step 1: Use IE to obtain an Ubuntu CD. /home partition for unforseen circumstances.
Step 2: Install it. Give it the entire disk, but create separate
Step 3: Use synaptic to install kubuntu-desktop (for my good lady wife)
Did I miss anything?
I don't therefore I'm not.
This is not an attempt to start a flamewar, however, automatix really f00bared my breezy install, if you want dvd functionality and other nice stuff, i suggest that you read the forums. Beryl doesn't work satisfactory with my setup, using a nvidia card, and on my old rig, using ati, it was even more pain, as ati's driver doesn't support aiglx (compositing). compiz works so-so.. but it looks nice.. :D
Just enjoy it!
i find your lack of faith in science disturbing!
Like I said, your reaction to the word is a personal issue. You continue to make yourself upset even after I emphasized that I'm only using it as a descriptor that also applies to myself. It's a statement of fact, not an accusation or application of a blind stereotype. Furthermore you can't very well hold me responsible for not knowing your life story. I was merely responding to your initial comment that appeared to be very much in favor of the command line as being the easiest way to do things, including somehow being capable of consolidating any 10 GUI actions into a single easy to copy & paste text command.
.EXE/.COM/.SCR/.BAT and other file extensions as automatic executables, for which we've been berating them for years now?
It's very commendable that you've taken the time to create a nice GUI oriented tutorial, and it is very nicely done. I applaud your efforts and thank you for your time. However, and I'm sure you'll throw another hissy fit over this, I have to wonder how the uneducated Linux newbie is supposed to A) know such a tutorial exists, B) know how and where to find it, C) know how to interpret it, and D) why such a tutorial is even necessary or E) whether it's really safe to be telling Linux newbies to make all files with a particular file extension executable by default. Isn't that just as bad as Windows treating all
When a user tries to open an autopackage file prior to doing this procedure, what happens? Nothing? Does some other application open it and display it as a text file or something? Is it somehow made obvious that the user should look around for a tutorial like this? Is it somehow obvious how to search for or get to this tutorial? Because in order to be useful to the uninitiated user it would have to be. It would need to be referenced next to ever single link to any autopackage file on the web, and in a readme file that goes along with the autopackage. But autopackages are designed to work alone, right? So it's going to be rather unlikely that an inexperienced user would quickly jump online and be able to find your tutorial.
As for the tutorial itself: Yes, I know, the pictures should make everything totally obvious and simple. But I know a lot of computer users who would even be confused by what you've presented, not least of all because it simultaneously talks about two completely different desktop environments without bothering to make that fact abundantly clear. It may be obvious to you and me what's going on, but that's because we have prior knowledge based on years of experience. Your step 3 contains no less than four different images which are apparently showing me the same thing via different interfaces and themes. The uninitiated user will be extremely confused by that. A natural assumption would be to think that you're telling the user to go to four different dialogs or tabs somehow and click four different boxes.
Even I, an experienced Linux user (KDE mostly, but I've used GNOME and others), had to look at those images for a minute to really be sure they were all telling me the same thing. There are a ridiculous number of confusing differences in those screenshots even though they only come from two different desktop environments. Those who do not understand anything about the concept of permissions will not understand or learn anything from those images. Although they may blindly follow the instructions they will be confused the entire time about what they are doing and why. I've known many people who went through a procedure many times based on my instructions and learned nothing, because they didn't have any contextual knowledge to understand the first thing about what was actually going on.
I notice you also didn't bother to make any notes about why this procedure might be dangerous, or why they shouldn't do this for other types of files that they can't open, or why they should generally never follow similar instructions from an untrusted email or website. Nor do you explain why your website might be more trustworthy than
Try the graphical tool this guy wrote:
i ghlight=xorg+edit
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=156243&h
Some people seemed to have luck with this issue using this tool.
If you hadn't done so already in a previous installation I would suggest first off to enable tab autocompletion on the Bash command line.
/etc/bash_completion ]; then /etc/bash_completion
/etc/bash.bashrc.
Which you do by uncommenting this:
# enable bash completion in interactive shells
if [ -f
.
fi
in
Then install basic build tools if you want to code:
apt-get install build-essential
Aar Aardvark
Yes, why enrich Microsoft when you can enrich the community.
-- "It's not stalking if you're married!" My Wife.
>> Step 2: Install 80+ updates. Reboot at least 4 times, probably one crash at least.
> Not actually that bad --and nothing like this with a slipstreamed install. Where are you getting these ancient install disks?
As Windows XP costs money people who bought it pre SP1 or pre SP2 aren't going to have a new copy of the disk each time a service pack comes out. So the 'ancient disks' will be what the customers had when they initially purchased the OS.
You can't guarentee that everyone has immediate access to service pack disks all the time.