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Wal-Mart Begins Massive Push For HD DVD
Several readers sent us word of Wal-Mart's ordering 2 million HD DVD players from China. Hans V wrote, "My kids work at Wal-Mart and the manager there has been talking about this. HD-DVD's are selling like mad there so I hear." Another reader sent us a few links in Chinese and summarized them this way: "The first batches of these blue-laser HD DVD players are to land sometime in 2007, with complete fulfillment of the order [from Fuh Yuan] in 2008. The deal could be worth up to $300 million US, which translates to $150 per player. If so, by the time Christmas 2007 rolls around, Wal-Mart could be selling these for less than $200 retail, although some speculate that the initial manufacturer suggested retail pricing might be in the ballpark of $299. Currently the cheapest high-definition player is a Toshiba HD DVD with an MSRP of $399." By comparison Blu-Ray players, manufactured in Japan, are not expected to drop below $1000 until next year. The International Herald Tribune writes about the risk Toshiba is taking by bringing in Chinese manufacturers to trump Sony in the format war.
Will the person who picked HD-DVD in April 2007 for the next gen DVD format pool, please step forward to collect their winnings. I don't think that there is any chance that Sony and friends could over come this.
The force that blew the Big Bang continues to accelerate.
Isn't that a Blu-Ray player made in Japan selling for under $1000?
Blu-Ray is going to have to overcome a lot to make up for this. Never underestimate the market power of the world's largest retailer.
Thanks walmart.
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The International Herald Tribune "writes"? How about "wrote, a year and a half ago"?
What is the translated Chinese? "blue laser HD-DVD" is only ONE way to translate the Chinese press release. HD-DVD or Blu-Ray? It's not clear because EITHER could be a proper translation.
What will Wal-Mart do if one of there cheap and big seller players get blacklisted?
Ii would suck to be working there on that day.
if you really in this game to win then build a couple of manufacturing plants in the u.s. to build these hd-dvd drives.. I can't imagine that this country doesn't have the ability to build cd drives efficiently.. you could win over a lot of people this way, build positive press, etc..
I mean, if I can find it doing a 30 second search over at Sony, why can't the author, rather than implying that Blu-Ray players will be $1000 until 2008. The Sony BDP-S300 is due to be released in Summer 2007.
y /eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-S tart?ProductSKU=BDPS300
Here:
http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinit
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
amazon seems to have a bunch of blu-ray disc players for under $1000, and even one model for under $500.
I mean: Radio -> HDRadio Tv -> HDTV DVD - >HDDVD Its just simpler for the consumer. Even the industry standard names for the damn aspect ratio is HDxxx depending on the resolutions. The poster also forgets, PS3 is a blue ray player and well under $1000 but that is beside the point. Truthfully, I hope Sony stops with the format obsession. The sad fact is that Sony would have been a lot better off just going with HDDVD. We would all be making money right now and not waiting for years while the consumer waits to see who is going to win. I'm not an industry specialist or anything, obvisouly, but I just don't see the next gen HD format being called "blu ray", when all others are HD-.
I still don't have a good reason to upgrade. Like the majority of people (at least at present), I don't have a big-screen HDTV.
http://twitter.com/OLDTELEGRAM
TFA says:
So, yes it is. in a way.
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I can very easily see a scenario five years from now where Blu-Ray is the dominant format but consumers call it HD-DVD because to them (as another poster pointed out) it's all HD.
MPAA want you to buy these players because they introduce a new revenue stream, and to further restrict access to backup your own purchased media.
Forget the increased disk sizes and high definition, most of the classic programs don't need it.
I won't be re-buying any of my already bought DVDs (about 220). They are all classics, and I'm in the process of converting them all to Xvid files so I can watch them on-demand.
...improve the dialogue of the movies?
-- Even if a god did exist, why the fsck should I worship it?
.... on Chinese products.
So there's no big domestic player than can compete with the Chinese for hi-tech product that is not yet on the market?
It's a Taiwanese company by the way .. not Chinese ..
So, you're saying that the company that created Betamax, ATRAC encoding, the S-Link protocol, Minidisc players, Super-AudioCDs, Memory Sticks and Universal Media Discs might actually lose a format war?
Preposterous!
Mike Hoye
So why is what Sony does a matter of concern?
Cut off Sony's money and they won't be able to do DMCA/RIAA in the future.
Of course, the "HD" in HD Radio doesn't stand for "high defintion" -- it stands for "hybrid digital," meaning that it co-exists with standard analog transmissions in the same channel. iBiquity is taking advtange of the fact that many consumers assume the HD prefix means "high definition," when there's no requirement for the digital transmissions to sound any better (especially if they use the bandwidth for additional subchannels).
I'm an electronics dept. manager and last i've heard blu-ray is getting our backing more than hd-dvd. I've sold more PS3's (20 roughly) than 360 HD-DVDs (1 because one of my people left a $99 tag in front of it). Current hype from corporate is all about blu-ray being the frontrunner. However my store doesn't even deal in high def movies as of yet so I doubt I'll see the players.
-= I can't think of anything witty, creative, or insightful for my sig, so deal with this. =-
I imagine this scene from Star Wars where Obi-wan discoverse the massive clone manufacturing plant at a hidden planet on a hidden star, but does not realize what this forebears.
EngadgetHD reported this yesterday, but added an update stating that the translation was unclear on whether this was HD-DVD or Blu-Ray.
- 299-hd-dvd-player-on-the-way/
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/04/20/the-wal-mart
From what I have read here, this point is no more clear. So, if anyone has the REAL story, we're all ears...
Let's see, we've got the pr0n market going to HD-DVD (though why on earth you'd want HD-DVD for pr0n I don't know)... and now we have Walmart pushing it like this, seems like BluRay is going to be reduced to the "has beens" bin ... again. Technically it may have been a superior format (?) but once again Sony shows the way to destroy what could have been a promising format.
Getting people to pay the premium for HD-DVD will be difficult at Wal-Mart unless the prices for HD-DVD players are almost the same as regular DVD players. For Joe Sixpack who has a standard def TV, he will balk at paying more for the same movie, and more likely will just buy the DVD because it works on all his players.
Both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray have promise as an alternative to tape drives on the low end, but not until the drives get under $200-$300, and the 50GB media gets to a price per gigabyte ratio comparable to existing DVDs. I hope they can do this... Ten BD disks for an offsite backup with a program like Retrospect would be a blessing for most SOHOs, compared to using 100 or so DVD+Rs.
I don't see how they're selling like mad at Wal-Mart considering the NPD numbers show blu-ray beating hd-dvd pretty handily for YTD 2007.
The justification for the high price of the PS3 is that it is also a Blu-Ray player. If Blu-Ray loses the format war, where does that leave the PS3? Don't even try to say that the PS3 is a superior game console to the Xbox 360. F.E.A.R. was just released on the PS3 and it has inferior graphics to the Xbox360 or PC. The PS3 version was released 6 months after the Xbox 360 version. Nearly every game released on both platforms has inferior graphics and no online for the PS3 version.
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/782/782476p2.html/
We are looking at a $199 HD-DVD player in the near future. At $150 cost per unit, I think Walmart is going to charge $199 a piece. Walmart works in volume. If they do this, you're going to see $249 players from other retailers. I guess all of the people who are saying that they are waiting for a sub $200 HD player will be buying one soon. Is Sony preventing the release of cheaper Blu-Ray players or is it just taking too long to bring down manufacturing prices?
HDTVs are about to be widely adopted. On Walmart's website, they are selling a 37 inch 720p/1080i TV for $698. I'm not saying it's the greatest quality television, but it's not outside the price range of the middle class. So you can buy a HD TV and player for under a thousand dollars.
If Sony had joined the HD-DVD coalition, they would be in a much better position. There would have been no format war and the PS3 would have a HD-DVD drive which would be the certain high definition format. Sony would still collect some royalities, just less than a Blu-Ray victory. Sometimes the safe option is the best option.
plain and simple, they wont force the cutoff and break the tv sets of hundreds of millions of people who will go to the ballot box the next year and clean their clocks... especially because if they were to do it even joe sixpack would recognize it as a corrupt government forcing them to pay a huge kickback to electronics manufacturers.
they set it to 2009 because they expected hd to penetrate more quickly, but it's not for obvious reasons (alienating early adopters with drm, continually changing their standards over and over, the lack of a critical mass of compelling hd programming, the utter expense of new hd disk media).
therefore, they can't reasonably do that without huge crowds with torches and pitchforks burning them at the stake
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
I am not a gamer. I don't particularly yet care about HD TV. What is the big deal? *IF* I used Windows, I would not be upgrading from XP yet as there is no real incentive. What is the incentive to care which of these formats win? Either one will slide into the player, I'll open my beer and sit back and watch the movie.
When it comes to back up, I don't use DVD. I use disk to disk to disk, or disk to disk to tape. Sure, the distribution disk for FC8 might fit on one disk, but uh, so?
For anyone but those interested in the bleeding edge or new technology, what is the big deal?
Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
doesn't walmart also need to increase it's orders of pirated HD movies?
That article is from 2005. Shouldn't they be here by now?
Which means they've convinced themselves they're shopping at some other department store? That whole walmart=looking rich phrase melted part of my brain.
Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
Please explain.
Er, so why am I supposed to buy one of these? Do they come without annoying trailers? Do they allow me to skip forward at any time (no UOPs)? Do they allow me to play any DVD I buy (no region problems)? Do they allow me to back up my media, so that I don't have to buy another one when the kids ride the original across the floor? Anything?
"Not an actor, but he plays one on TV."
Blu-Ray will win because it has a cooler name. It evokes laser guns and space battles.
HD-DVD is just another dumb acronym. Who wants that?
If you bought a 2GHz processor that only ran at 1GHz, but you had to pay extra for a "full 2GHz" processor that actually ran at 2GHz, there would be a nerd mutiny here. But displays that only show half the pixels you paid for on your expensive disc and expensive player? You get all kinds of apologists crawling out of the pixelwork. Weird.
The facts here seem very unclear. First of all, there has been no confirmation from WalMart as to which format they are buying. Also, a $300 Blu-Ray player is already on sale in China!
i was happy with the hd-dvd player. i rented one from wal-mart for 89 days.
So let me get this straight -- a deal that Walmart hasn't admitted to, with a format that may or not be HD-DVD (because it could be Blu-Ray given translation problems), with players that won't come out till 2008, will absolutely win the format war for HD-DVD, because no there is no reason for anyone to not buy HD-DVD now (at the currently higher prices) because they promise to win the war because these (without a doubt according to HD-DVD fanboys) are on the way. The same way they promised to win because HD-DVD's early to market strategy would give them an "Unbeatable" lead. And how "All" the studios would support HD-DVD because of the lower replication costs.
Unless the studios change alignments and go neutral by Christmas it is all over for HD-DVD. Period. I am dubious anyone can make an HD player for 50 dollars (say, how well does "Children of Men" play for you on your XBox 360?). Maybe the mechanism, but it takes a lot of horsepower to do all the modern codecs at full HD and with the DRM overhead.
I suspect this will all turn out to be a huge misunderstanding that is blown all out of proportion by the HD-DVD camp looking for any good news to hang their hats on after having gotten beaten badly 4 months in a row. Children of Men is out and Matrix preorder has also come and gone. HD-DVD doesn't have any more ammo in the content pipeline to compete with the big titles coming Blu-Ray's way in the next few months.
If you include PS3 players Blu-Ray sells more players every month than HD-DVD has sold in a full Year.
Having been to China, they call DVD9 HD-DVD on the street and on the packaging. I suspect we are talking a conventional DVD player that scales conventional DVD to HD resolution. This could definitely be produced for $50 dollars or less. I do not believe they can make $50 HD-DVD players that actually work. Remember this stuff has to have HDMI for God's sake. If it were possible to do the processing, they'd still probably still have to skimp by piping out component only and hope the Down Rez flag never gets set on future HD-DVD discs.
Blu-Ray also has two additional layers of DRM (and yes I know how much slashdotters all hate DRM) and these will be used for the first time soon. Since the AACS is now completely compromised, the studios will really be watching to see how well Blu-Ray's additional layers hold up. If they last even a few months, the studios will offer up HD-DVD on the altar as a sacrifice to the DRM gods.
It's not all about how cheap the players are. People that can afford a decent big HDTV (and it really does need to be big to see the BIG difference) can afford a $500 Blu-Ray players (and yes they exist now, pay no attention to the "$1000" player FUD, hell buy a PS3 for $600) and will care more about how many movies are available. Sure HD-DVD will be 100-200 dollars cheaper this Christmas, but Blu-Ray will have the movies and will eventually be considered a must buy item for good HDTVs. People that don't have HDTV or are satisfied with DVD don't need either.
Letter To Iran
"...The International Herald Tribune writes about the risk ..."... Perhaps it should be " ...wrote about the risk ..."
So when these players (of unofficial English press release) all crap out less than a year after they've been purchased and a replacement has been purchased do the members of that format count both units toward their "total players sold"? Because if I were them I'd just make one even shitter than the ones Wal-mart will be selling that has to be replaced every couple months and sell it really cheap - that way my total units in use will sky rocket and more media shops will want to use my format.
Quality before quantity is a completely foreign concept to Wal-mart. I'm not impressed.
No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
The only thing that matters in HD format is studio support. And Blu Ray studio support is vastly better than HD DVD. Repeat after me, HD-DVD has only one exclusive studio (Universal). Blu Ray has half a dozen, including Sony Pictures studios and Disney/Pixar among others. Once Universal throws in the towel on HD-DVD, it'll be pretty much done. And you can bet your ass Sony won't throw in the towel on Blu Ray.
...but I've been waiting for the no-name Chinese players to turn up before I even gave either HD format the slightest consideration. Unfortunately, now I'm waiting for the cheap Blu-Ray/HD-DVD hybrid players to show up. Whichever one of those can be hacked the most thoroughly to do the most cool shit (and turn off the most annoying DRM "features") will be the one I end up taking home.
Oppressing an entire population is never cheap.
--Jeckler (/. Beta IS GARBAGE!)
if you really in this game to win then build a couple of manufacturing plants in the u.s. to build these hd-dvd drives.. I can't imagine that this country doesn't have the ability to build cd drives efficiently.. you could win over a lot of people this way, build positive press, etc..
I'm sorry but Americans have voted with their wallets decades ago. From cars to screwdrivers, Americans have said they prefer the lower cost foreign made goods. You are recycling a very old argument/sentiment. Anyone else here old enough to remember seeing "Save a Job, Buy American" bumper stickers and billboards all over the place?
Contrary to the message of those who make a living from the anti-establishment marketing campaigns targeted at the never ending supply of rebellious youth, Consumers have power over the Corporations. Corporations outsourced because Consumers showed a preference for lower priced foreign goods, Corporations built gas guzzling SUVs because Consumers showed a preference for SUVs, etc.
...will be mixed into the players?
Don't forget your monster cables only $79.95
It's more than just the 30 cents worth of plastic, it's all the logistics involved in producing two separate discs -- so you're effectively doubling that supply chain -- and packing them together, keeping them straight (don't want to put two copies of disc 1 in there, don't want to ship any with just one disc, etc.) -- not to mention adding additional weight to each package that has to be taken into account during shipping and transport.
I'll bet that the cost of manufacturing a 2-disc set is significantly higher than producing a single-sided one; personally, I'd rather screw the artwork on the discs and save the money. They're just buckets for bits anyway.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
Who out there thinks WalMart is going to stock in huge numbers a player that does not play Disney movies? Disney has firmly sided with Blu-Ray, and as Disney goes so too will go Wal-Mart. All you have to do is follow existing relationships to see what will happen...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8 2E16882116086
HD-DVD wins because...we can buy them at Wal-Mart. That model has been $299 at the egg for awhile.
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=39 034
Samsung BD-P1000 $664.99 in store at Best Buy.
The same player for $699.99 at CompUSA
Sony 2x2x2 Blu-ray BD-RE, internal ATA drive $699.99 at CompUSA
The Samsung again for $699 at Circuit City
Or the newer Samsung BD-P1200 for $799.99 at Circuit City
Then there's the Lite-On Blu Ray Burner for $399.99 at Fry's
And the Philips BDP9000 player for $799.99 also at Fry's
Man, I can't wait for next year when they finally drop below $1000 at places other than every single major retailer.
That said, the original poster also misquoted the actual article. There was no mention of Blu Ray players as a whole not dropping below $1,000 until next year - simply that Sony themselves aren't planning on dropping prices on their own models until then.
Yes, a hypothetical glut of HD-DVD players at $200, if WalMart aren't trying to use the low cost to generate large per-unit profits, could have an interesting effect. Still, we're talking 2 million players total... The XBox360 already has a $199 player and a greater than 5m units capable of adding it - yet the format war's hardly been won or even taken a lead.
That we're looking at a Christmas with next generation DVD players hitting the $200-300 mark is interesting if nothing much more than people were expecting. Overhyping it by misreading, misinterpreting and misstating everything around it, to try to elevate the drama of it however is kind of a shame.
Since I can buy Blu-Ray players in PS3's for $599 right now, I'm calling BS on this whole article.
Also, doesn't China have a bit of a licensing problem regarding the content protection system in DVD's? Are these players from China fully licensed to use the AACS content protection system, as well as all patents in regard to HD-DVD? I'd be really careful about placing such a big and noisy order if everything wasn't perfectly on the up-and-up.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
And 100% of those posts have to mention rootkits!
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
This story is a huge mess. I give it no credence what so ever, so when the REAL story comes forth, please let me know.....
People talk about the players as if the consumer wouldn't need any TV to go with it. The High Def TV's are pretty expensive atm, once they start to come down a lot, then we can talk about which format will win this round.
"one of those problems has been their entry into the high-end electronics market, which has gone over like a lead balloon"
I have no idea if that's really true. But my experience at Wal-Mart has been that if you buy stuff that is generic and can be stamped out in china by one of a hundred factories, then Wal-Mart can be cheap. But when you compare prices on things that you can buy at Best Buy, Circuit City, Amazon, or any place that discounts high-end electronics, then Wal-Mart is often the most expensive place to purchase stuff.
And don't you think that if someone is going to spend $500 on electronics, they'll at least go to Amazon to check the price? It only takes 30 seconds.
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
I am personally going to be looking at the Chinese's high definition format, if it is free of Treacherous computing then I'm in.
My little Linux and tech blog
People don't give a damn about UMD because the format is a crap :
- It has no visible advantage over DVD
- It asks people to re-buy they entire collection just to be able to watch it on a new portable device and only on that device.
Whereas, for NextGen format BlueRay & HD DVD :
- Although not obvious for Joe Six paxk, there are some subtle advantage to next gen formats with thier bigger capacity (More room for higher picture quality for movies OR TV series not spanning several DVDs just for 1 season)
- You buy it and it is supposed to play not only in a PS3 resp. XBox 360. But also on stand alone device. On PCs. On portable player. On laptops. etc.
To make an analogy the situation with UMD is just like if up until now the CD has been the standard medium for music which could be used everywhere, and suddenly some company comes up with a new format for a new portable audio player, which asks you to rebuy your whole audio collection just to be able to use it on the portable device... no, wait. It's called an iPOD
BlueRay will develop too. But only when chinese manufacturer manage to produce a device that casts 100$ and in which they cram support for HD DVD, BlueRay, chinese next gen DVD, DVD, VideoCD, SuperVCD, DivX, XVid, X264, MP3, OGG, etc.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
This time it was Wal-Mart pushing the move, but the Chinese could have just as easily picked HD-DVD on their own. When a country owns your manufacturing capacity, they own you they can set the standards or decide which one is going to win. No Chinese factory is going to defy the government if they decide to take sides on a format.
I don't think that's happened...yet. But it certainly could. Or the Chinese could decide that players made in their country will or won't support some type of encryption standard. What are we going to do if we don't like it? Start building new factories? Count on some other third world country to take up the slack?
They make almost everything we use on a daily basis, we couldn't start a trade war if we wanted to. The Chinese own billions in our foreign debt. If they wanted to tank the dollar and jerk us around, all they'd have to do is start selling. Other countries would have to follow suit or watch the value of their holdings diminish as well. This is a disaster waiting to happen.
They have us by the economic nads. Just because they haven't squeezed doesn't mean they can't or won't.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
Why would I buy a HD-DVD player?
When I rent a movie, it's still a DVD.
I could buy the bargain DVD or pay much more for the HD-DVD.
Why pay more?
Can't lose them all...
Send email from the afterlife! Write your e-will at Dead Man's Switch.
That's pretty spurious. I can afford a decent big HDTV (have one, in fact) and can afford a $500 Blu-Ray player, but I consider it a waste of money.
Sure HD-DVD will be 100-200 dollars cheaper this Christmas, but Blu-Ray will have the movies and will eventually be considered a must buy item for good HDTVs. People that don't have HDTV or are satisfied with DVD don't need either.
Remember DivX (the Circuit City format abortion, not the codec)? Disney, 20th Century Fox, and Paramount Pictures released their content exclusively for it at first (if Wikipedia is to be believed). That worked out really well for that format, didn't it?
Again, do I give a fuck about Australian broadcasts in a thread about HD-DVD formats? And will the TV give me an easy way to turn off re-scaling? I want a 1:1 correspondence between the pixels I paid for and the pixels in my display. Is this such a far-fetched requirement? I do not understand all the apologia for displays with resolutions that don't correspond to any sane resolution.
Okay, I'll bite... It's not!
"Remember DivX (the Circuit City format abortion, not the codec)? Disney, 20th Century Fox, and Paramount Pictures released their content exclusively for it at first (if Wikipedia is to be believed). That worked out really well for that format, didn't it?"
A reasonable point, but if memory serves me at no point was DivX ever ahead of DVD in sales, let alone by multiples. People immediately rejected the implied DivX DRM control by the Studios. Blu-Ray and HD-DVD are essentially functionally identical with respect to DRM and most importantly functionally equivalent do standard DVD adding no new restriction as DivX did.
Letter To Iran
I was one of the people who sent in the news, and Slashdot posted my blurb:
"The first batches of these blue-laser HD DVD players are to land sometime in 2007, with complete fulfillment of the order [from Fuh Yuan] in 2008. The deal could be worth up to $300 million US, which translates to $150 per player. If so, by the time Christmas 2007 rolls around, Wal-Mart could be selling these for less than $200 retail, although some speculate that the initial manufacturer suggested retail pricing might be in the ballpark of $299. Currently the cheapest high-definition player is a Toshiba HD DVD with an MSRP of $399."
I also did send in the 2005 New York Times link, but did not attempt to imply it was recent. It was just an article to outline Toshiba's strategy of aligning itself with cheaper Chinese manufacturers. I also sent the links to the original Chinese articles (from a few days ago) about Wal-Mart's deal but I guess Slashdot didn't post them because they were in Chinese. No matter though, since the AVS thread linked here also includes them. I made no mention of Blu-ray player pricing either, except to say their MSRPs were more than Toshiba's MSRP of $399. Either somebody else's Slashdot submission said $1000, or else Slashdot simply got that number from the 2005 NYT article.
And no, this is not about Blu-ray. It's about blue-laser HD DVD, plain and simple. Several Chinese speakers have already verified this.
This article reeks of a lot of dubious information and slanted opinions.
1) First, all of the articles have been interpreted through translations. There have already been Asian language press releases earlier this year (namely aroud CES) which get mistranslated due to the confusing and generic terminology around HD DVD. This is due to the HD-DVD(tm) and HD DVD (generic technology, either format) which even plagues English speaking-owners who by the wrong formats on their media.
2) Why has there been no English press release or confirmation from any of the companies supporting HD-DVD? If this is such a big deal, you'd think they'd be jumping to announce it due to the current widespread perception that HD-DVD is losing the war.
3) Who the heck is HansV, and why do we care about his personal anecdote -- second hand from his *kids*, even? Media sales numbers don't back up the idea that HD-DVD is selling like hotcakes.
4) The suggested retail price for these players -- at the earliest 6 months from now -- is not that much lower than HD-DVD players out currently ($399) that aren't selling that well to begin with.
5) You can buy Japanese-manufactured Blu-Ray players *right now* on Amazon for significantly less than $1000 right now. You can buy Blu-Ray *burners* for a laptop for less than that right now. Not to mention the PS3. Blu-ray players costs will be dropping in 6 months, too.
This sounds like a trumped up PR story by an HD-DVD fanboy. Where is Walmart's motive to "push for HD-DVD" when that format is selling less than its opponent, and doesn't carry as much of the content (e.g. Disney) that Walmart customers prefer? I'm not saying this purchase might not be true, but it seems to be a very one-sided account of motives from a company who itself has said nothing. And I say this as the owner of an HD-DVD player and not a Blu-Ray player, although I expect to have both soon.
P.S. In case some don't believe that it's HD DVD. One of the Chinese articles specifically states that one advantage of blue light HD DVD is that its discs can be manufactured on existing DVD lines (after some upgrades). It should be noted that is only a feature of HD DVD. Blu-ray discs require separate stamping equipment.
I don't know who Hans is, but I submitted part of what was posted in the slashdot article.
I posted a comment here but it gets lost in the shuffle due to the score thresholds. Anyways, to repeat:
---
I was one of the people who sent in the news, and Slashdot posted my blurb:
"The first batches of these blue-laser HD DVD players are to land sometime in 2007, with complete fulfillment of the order [from Fuh Yuan] in 2008. The deal could be worth up to $300 million US, which translates to $150 per player. If so, by the time Christmas 2007 rolls around, Wal-Mart could be selling these for less than $200 retail, although some speculate that the initial manufacturer suggested retail pricing might be in the ballpark of $299. Currently the cheapest high-definition player is a Toshiba HD DVD with an MSRP of $399."
I also did send in the 2005 New York Times link, but did not attempt to imply it was recent. It was just an article to outline Toshiba's strategy of aligning itself with cheaper Chinese manufacturers. I also sent the links to the original Chinese articles (from a few days ago) about Wal-Mart's deal but I guess Slashdot didn't post them because they were in Chinese. No matter though, since the AVS thread linked here also includes them. I made no mention of Blu-ray player pricing either, except to say their MSRPs were more than Toshiba's MSRP of $399. Either somebody else's Slashdot submission said $1000, or else Slashdot simply got that number from the 2005 NYT article.
And no, this is not about Blu-ray. It's about blue-laser HD DVD, plain and simple. Several Chinese speakers have already verified this.
---
P.S. In case some don't believe that it's HD DVD. One of the Chinese articles specifically states that one advantage of blue light HD DVD is that its discs can be manufactured on existing DVD lines (after some upgrades). It should be noted that is only a feature of HD DVD. Blu-ray discs require separate stamping equipment.
On paper, both consoles have about the same power.
PS3: 512MB memory (last I heard, 96MB of that is permanently reserved for the OS...it used to be 128MB on older devkits), Cell processor (1 general purpose core and 7 DSPs, of which 1 is permanently reserved for the OS), classic dedicated shader pipeline architecture.
Xbox360: 512MB memory (of which 32MB permanently reserved for the OS), 3 dual-core general purpose PPC processors (i.e. 6 in-order execution cores, of which half the cycles of one are permanently reserved for the OS), unified shader pipe architecture.
On the PS3, you have to dedicate a large, fixed chunk of RAM to be graphics memory. On the 360, its more flexible (plus you have more RAM available). Thats why PS3 ports often half textures at half the sizes of the 360 games.
In a year or two we may see some pretty awesome PS3 games. But in the meantime, its just easier for developers to get the full power of the 360 than it is to use the PS3. The 360 has a symmetric multiprocessing model--6 cores that are the same type and share the same memory heirarchy. The PS3 uses a single general core and a bunch of DSPs that have a different instruction set, different memory heirarchy and only 128KB of internal RAM!! So the PS3 is much harder to program for.
Also, the 360 shares the same pipes for pixel and vertex shaders, so there is no risk of (say) vertex hardware going unused while the pixel stuff is fully loaded. It load-balances automatically and very efficiently. And of course the MS devkits are much easier to develop with than Sony's.
I originally posted a comment here but it gets lost in the shuffle due to the score thresholds. I have finally found my account details, so I've logged in.
I don't know who Hans is, but I did submit other parts of what was posted in the slashdot article. To repeat:
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I was one of the people who sent in the news, and Slashdot posted my blurb:
"The first batches of these blue-laser HD DVD players are to land sometime in 2007, with complete fulfillment of the order [from Fuh Yuan] in 2008. The deal could be worth up to $300 million US, which translates to $150 per player. If so, by the time Christmas 2007 rolls around, Wal-Mart could be selling these for less than $200 retail, although some speculate that the initial manufacturer suggested retail pricing might be in the ballpark of $299. Currently the cheapest high-definition player is a Toshiba HD DVD with an MSRP of $399."
I also did send in the 2005 New York Times link, but did not attempt to imply it was recent. It was just an article to outline Toshiba's strategy of aligning itself with cheaper Chinese manufacturers. I also sent the links to the original Chinese articles (from a few days ago) about Wal-Mart's deal but I guess Slashdot didn't post them because they were in Chinese. No matter though, since the AVS thread linked here also includes them. I made no mention of Blu-ray player pricing either, except to say their MSRPs were more than Toshiba's MSRP of $399. Either somebody else's Slashdot submission said $1000, or else Slashdot simply got that number from the 2005 NYT article.
And no, this is not about Blu-ray. It's about blue-laser HD DVD, plain and simple. Several Chinese speakers have already verified this.
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P.S. In case some don't believe that it's HD DVD. One of the Chinese articles specifically states that one advantage of blue light HD DVD is that its discs can be manufactured on existing DVD lines (after some upgrades). It should be noted that is only a feature of HD DVD. Blu-ray discs require separate stamping equipment.
When I submitted the blurb, I never said Blu-ray players were $1000 in 2007. Perhaps Slashdot got it from the 2005 NYT article, I'm not sure.
Link:
I was told by someone in the know that the player will be on the shelf at $299 and frequently on sale for $199
I'm hoping to get a few thousand with my branding.
-Robert
Great ... I really hope that this so called format war will not be decided by Wal-mart ... may as well be Toshiba or Sony choosing the winner instead of the customer ... I say boycott this move by Wall-Mart on general principle!
The average Walmart shopper doesn't care about 1080P DVDs. NASCAR doesn't ship at 1080P and those same people will spend a lot on a TV + HDTV signal to get football and NASCAR in HD but they are not the same people that will spend an extra $100 on a DVD player to watch Dances With Wolves.
So it comes down to content and the amount of players on the market. Sony appears to have a very large lead here and it doesn't appear to be changing this year or next. I see a few people looking at HD-DVD and then saying "What movies can I get now?" then they look at the movies being released this year and see the movies coming out on Blue Ray and then decide to wait because they think their standard DVD player is ok. It will be VERY interesting to see how many of these sell this year for Walmart. Then there are those that have bought a PS3 or are waiting to buy a PS3, they know they have a Blue Ray player and when they see a movie they like that is produced in Blue Ray they buy it. Every price drop Sony makes with the PS3 and every "must have game (MGS4, GT5, FF), that comes out just helps to cement that format even more.
Obviously Microsoft + Warner are doing everything they can to help HD-DVD and kill Blue Ray, and I suspect that this company is somehow getting some extra cash, but at the end of the day it won't matter.
Unless these new HD-DVD players are the EXACT same price as a standard DVD player (~$60) then it really doesn't matter for HD-DVD. It is all but dead. $200 might as well be $5000 to the standard Walmart shopper.
The more I learn about science, the more my faith in God increases.
Actually, I think Sony couldn't get the well-known and successful DVD brand and had to come up with a new name. "Blu-Ray" doesn't sound much to consumers and HD-DVD sure also has a "blue ray"...
You can bet Sony would very much like to have the brand under their belts.
I don't feel like it...
If you bought a screen with 1366x768 resolution, you got a screen with a 1:1 correspondence between the pixels that you paid for and the advertised resolution i.e. you got exactly what you paid for, that is a screen with 1366x768 resolution. I mean, the resolution of 1366x768 is clearly advertised.
Now just because your 1366x768 screen doesn't have a 1:1 correspondence between the pixels on an HD-DVD (which is a different story completely - because I assume that you think that a screen that suports any HD resolution has to support all HD resolutions), what does it matter? These screens are not being advertised as so. True 1080p screens are available and cost considerably more.
Anyone spending large amount of cash to buy an LCD should really do their homework first. I recently bought an 1080i screen, because I couldn't justify spending the extra cash on a 1080p at that time. The resolutions on all screens were clearly labeled.
Now you'd have a point if you argued that a 720p/1080i screen should have less pixels to allow a 1:1 correspondence between the pixels on 1280x720. This is something that is not explained in many cases.
Minidisc was hardly successful. Sony had AFAIK no major involvement in Flash memory media or hard disks, which I believe now are the best of breed media. Even Sony figured out they had to put a hard disk and Gigabit Ethernet in the PS3, while the original PS had neither disks or networking built-in.
I think the future is pointing away from traditional write-only media, unless some major new technology is developed. There used to be a time a CD-ROM (650MB) had more capacity than the hard disk of the day (20MB) and was a good archival format. This has not been the case for quite some time. A dual layer Blue-ray disk can have 50GB of data, while 250GB hard disks are commonplace. DSL speeds now have download bitrate to compete with regular DVD. Coupled with better than MPEG-2 encoding this enables real-time transmission of multiple channels of high quality video and audio.
Apple TV is more like it.
... might help you hear it a bit easier. :)
Seriously, I turn on subtitles sometimes as the muffled audio makes hearing the dialogue hard. Will have to get a new preamp, whenever they're released, but will probably do so when a good one is available for a reasonable price.
(I'm very excited about the WalMart push, it's just what we needed.)
ISO certified == THX certified
Had Sony released the PS3 when they initially announced they'd release it, and had sales been as high as Sony had been projecting, then the war probably would already be over. However, that didn't happen, and HD DVD has managed to keep in the game, even though millions of PS3s have already been released. Six million PS3s by the end of March 2007 might have been enough to win the war, but 3 million clearly is not. If indeed Fuh Yuan and Wal-Mart are able to achieve the $199 price point with HD DVD this fall, then it may even give HD DVD the advantage, even despite the PS3 onslaught.
The reason for this is that PS3 owners simply don't buy as many discs as standalone owners. Estimates are that it takes roughly 4-5 PS3s to equal one standalone in terms of disc sales. This is an extremely important point and one that is not lost on either the Blu-ray and HD DVD combatants. That's why Toshiba went after the low cost Chinese manufacturers in the first place. Of course, Blu-ray companies will drop prices to compete, but the question is whether or not they will be able to do quick enough and low enough.
We may have a winner who will celebrate a Pyhrric Victory. Toshiba will rather go down like the battleship Yamato before it hands Sony a victory on this. Meanwhile Hewlett-Packhard is getting ready to jump ship if Sony doesnt agree to fuck Vista and the MPAA by incorporating some software more friendly to we consumers interested in fair use to use our own DVDs on whatever media we choose. The IHT newspaper link referred to in the article leads to a blank page if you do not eat their cookies, and they have a boatload of evil trackers and web suckers to hand out. What it really does is add a 'hidden' attribute to all the text in the artical. Of course it may be also true that if a non 'Internet 'read sucker' Explorer' browser is used we may be also blocked. In any case for any of you /...ers that are usin Apples or Unix or Linux and wanna see the dirt, here it is:
" In switch, Toshiba turns to China
In the high-stakes battle with Sony over whose format will power the next-generation of DVD players, Toshiba has adopted a potentially perilous strategy: encouraging low-cost Chinese competitors to crank out machines using its standard known as HD-DVD.
The tactic of courting Chinese makers has been largely taboo in Japan, where manufacturers like Sony and Panasonic have long tried to delay their technology from turning into cheap commodities. But Toshiba's decision could have significant ramifications in the race for the billions of dollars that will very likely flow from the next generation of DVD technology that promises sharper pictures, enhanced audio and more disc storage.
China, for its part, is developing its own high-definition DVD format, Xinhua, the official state-run news agency, reported this month. Citing Lu Da, deputy director of the National Disc Engineering Center, it said that the format was set to be put on the market before 2008. Xinhua reported that Lu said the format would be based on the prevailing HD-DVD format but would be incompatible with other HD-DVD systems.
Toshiba and Sony have been fighting an increasingly bitter war over which technology will become the industry standard. It is a battle that carries particular significance for Sony, which once championed the higher-quality Betamax but still lost the battle over the standard for videocassettes.
In the latest brawl, negotiations to merge their formats failed, so the two sides have been lobbying Hollywood studios, disc manufacturers, computer companies like Dell and software makers like Microsoft, as well as retailers like Best Buy and Wal-Mart.
Sony and others developing the Blu-ray technology have recently won big victories by persuading more studios to agree to put movies into their format. Sony also plans to put the technology in the PlayStation 3 when the game console is released in the spring, effectively turning them into Blu-ray DVD players.
By making its technology available to Chinese manufacturers, Toshiba hopes to get cheaper HD-DVD players in the stores months ahead of Sony, Panasonic, Samsung and other Blu-ray companies. This would help Toshiba outmaneuver Sony. Toshiba, analysts say, also knows that DVDs became a mass market item in the United States after low-priced models arrived from China and filled big-box retailers like Wal-Mart.
But inviting the Chinese to drive down prices is risky. Toshiba, after all, also makes DVD players, so it could undercut its own machines in stores. By ceding potential sales for its machines to other, cheaper brands, Toshiba may have a harder time recouping the hundreds of millions of dollars it has spent developing its format.
Sony and the Blu-ray group are licensing their technology more selectiv
My local Blockbuster rents HD DVDs.
Furthermore, all HD DVD players (so far anyway) will upscale DVDs.
The original article in Chinese says literally "blue light" HD DVD. Note that TDK is also a FOUNDING member of the Blu-Ray Disc Association. Since TDK is in on the development of this machine, Blu-Ray seems to be the mo HD-DVD works on RED Laser, BTW, so I'm inclined to the Blu-Ray theory.
Okay, I'll admit that I didn't read any of the fine articles. Sorry about that.
Someone needs to find a word for "high-definition DVD successor" that can be applied to both formats. We consider DVD generic, but BluRay something of a brand-name; what should that make HD-DVD?
TDK says it's a founding member of the BluRay consortium, so I guess your prediction is right, too. If they created the standard, and given the two studios who sell the most DVDs are already working in BluRay (exclusively so far), then it would be logical for Wal*Mart to flood the market with BluRays. So, oops...
Anyone want to venture into the electronics section of a Wal*Mart to see what they have now? If they've taken a side in the format war, they may be starting to show it now in their player or disc selection. What players (not attached to PS3s or XBOXes) do they have? What discs do they have?
BTW, it's easy to tell who's supporting BluRay if you check. BluRay discs come in blue boxes.
There is a fine line between recklessness and courage... -- Paul McCartney
That's not true. This post doesn't mention... oh, nevermind...
The average Walmart shopper doesn't care about 1080P DVDs.
The average Walmart shopper is still too preoccupied struggling with the concept of aspect ratios and scaling on their new-fangled TV to have seriously considered HD disc players yet. Once they figure out why the anchor on the local news looks so fat and how to fix it is when they'll slowly realise that their DVD movies don't look as crisp as Monday-night football. No advantage to either HD disc format yet...
The average Walmart shoppers that decide to try and do something about it will quickly become aware that there are two in incompatible, fledgling formats--one is cheaper and one has more storage capacity, but to date there are no blu-ray releases that have either superior picture OR extra features over HD-DVD, if the movie exists in both formats at all. If this very Beta-vs-VHS-like situation doesn't scare them off purchasing entirely, the price-conscious Walmart shopper is going to opt for HD-DVD--a much cheaper option (these will be cheaper than PS3s)
Walmart shoppers are mostly NOT hardcore gamers and would NOT see the appeal in the PS3 (I only want to watch moves--I don't want to spend extra to get a video game machine when I never play such games). XBox360 has more market share, more games, lower price. It also has an HD-DVD add-on available. Still not over for HD-DVD.
Blu-ray may be miles ahead of hd-dvd...but what is the significance of being 5 miles ahead when you're only 6 miles into a 100 mile race? The current situation is too confusing for Joe Walmart, even blu-ray's library is way too limited compared to what DVD buyers are accustomed to and hd-dvd is worse, the players are either expensive or not widely available or unreliable or a combination of all.
I think that up-converting DVD players with HDMI output will be the market leaders for quite awhile--I've noticed that PVRs with integrated DVDs that do upconverting are very popular purchases where I'm at.
Long term, despite studios innitially backing blu-ray more strongly that HD-DVD has advantages:
* blu-ray is relatively over-engineered: more complex technology and discs have to be stamped using more expensive, dvd-incompatible equipment, potential DRM maze nightmare, harder to develop content for in terms of navigation (Java development hell)...HD-DVD is a more incremental approach--complex enough but still not as bad as blu-ray.
* blu-ray is expensive: yes we seeing the release of $400 to $600 players but HD-DVD is maintaining its %50 price advantage with $200 players on deck.
* blu-ray has a less-effective brand image: HD-DVD implies continuity and compatibility with DVD (never mind if blu-ray players could play DVDs too--"techno-peasants" won't get that first impression)
* blu-ray stalwarts like Disney, even at this early stage in the market, are prepared to release in hd-dvd: their current offerings are encoded in such a way that they'd fit on HD-DVD. Cheap players==more demand for content==pressure to release in desired format.
Anybody remember why Beta failed? It wasn't just because VHS tapes could make twice as long recordings (Beta allowed for 4 hours max in the end anyways--with picture quality slightly better than VHS at its own 4 hour speed). It wasn't because of studio backing either--studios were fairly agnostic back then, and initially both formats had enough offerings that neither was much ahead of the other. It was ultimately because of the overly-selective/greedy licensing policy of Sony, which kept Beta deck prices higher than they should have been for too long. Furthermore the decks were mechanically more complex than VHS decks and markedly less reliable than VHS as well (this is from personal experience).
We are seeing the blu-ray camp repeat these mistakes--they are resisting any move that would put downward pressure on player prices by being too-selective in licensing to low-cost manufacturers. The often-touted PS3, the most popular HD player by far right now, was l