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Doctor Urges AMA To Classify Gaming Addiction
Doctor Mario writes "The AMA has issued a set of findings and recommendations (Word document) which follow a lengthy look at possible connections between gaming and violence, as well as gaming addiction. Ars Technica has a very good summary of the report, which suggests that gaming addiction is likely to be a subset of Internet addiction 'as it most frequently occurs in players of MMORPGs. In both of these addictions, the current definition is currently informal — the described symptoms actually most closely resemble pathological gambling, rather than an addiction. In either case, the report notes, "there is currently insufficient research to definitively conclude that video game overuse is an addiction."' The report also recommends that Internet and videogame addiction be included in a revision to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders."
It's probably a good thing if this gets voted down by AMA. Right now most of the states' laws that are being passed in their respective legislatures are being declared unconstitutional because it has not been demonstrated that video games pose a legit risk to children or their mental health. If the AMA votes through this proposal, we could start to see states pointing to this, and seeing the courts side with the states regarding the legislation that they are passing, which are all currently and consistently being ruled unconstitutional by the courts.
A community-oriented lyrics site
I can quit anytime I want to.
I'm completely in control.
like not having medical insurance!
the problem is doctors addicted to affluence
Words to men, as air to birds.
They said 1-2 hours total, and gaming within that 1-2 hours ... damn, I spend almost 8 hours a day at work in front of a 'screen'. I'm screwed.
Or is the percieved behavior actually the result of some obsessive compulsive tendency? I still find the idea of people being addicted to video games a stretch.
Oops, how did this get here?
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
Does anyone know how non-accidental disabilities... like drug addictions... are handled in such cases? I've never been a drug addict, but surely you can't collect disability pay for it.
Instead of projecting mental conditions onto physical entities and behaviors like gaming, people should spend more time just trying to understand addiction and obsessive compulsive behavior in general.
Just studying addictive personalities however is not as sensational or politically expedient as the more sensational avenue of linking games to violence and anti-social behavior. I'm sure a researcher can get more money by studying the latter.
If you can still breakaway to post on Slashdot.
Hmm, does the AMA say anything about Slashdot addiction?
It does seem that to classify something as an addiction it has to fall in to two categories:
I don't do it (that much).
I don't like the people who do it.
I doubt doctors will ever decide to investigate whether listening to classical music too often is an addiction.
Like smoking a spliff, or listening to music, or getting laid. There's no physical dependancy. You might feel a bit pissed off if you can't have what you're used to, but that's about it.
Presumably addiction here means that playing games stimulates the pleasure centers in the brain, which leads players to play more in order to sustain the dopamine rush (or endorphins, or whatever). But can anybody explain to me why this is any different from, say, somebody who loves playing soccer, or playing piano? I know people who get cranky if they don't go to the gym at least once a day--are they addicted? What makes gaming (or gambling, for that matter) an addiction?
Here's your tinfoil hat thought of the day: at least one major drug company is currently working on drugs intended to treat nonspecific 'compulsive' behaviors, and the list of populations they're targeting includes gamblers, overeaters, and gamers. Bit creepy, or is it just me?
Violent video games are a healthy outlet for the natural violent thoughts and feelings that occur in every human being. There IS a correlation between violent people and violent video games, but most people see this in the wrong light. It's a symptom, not a cause. Violent video games do not make people more violent, but one should be worried if observing an unnatural propensity to play violent video games that stretches beyond the game.
So I guess my point was that people, in general, have this completely backwards. It comes down to whether or not a person can see the difference between fantasy and reality violence. When one cannot tell the difference, it is indicative of something other than an overabundance of video gaming.
Hmm.. I think gaming addiction is covered by our healthcare. Now this would help confirm it.
But we got screwed anyway:
>>The choice was Universal Health Care or Cheap Games. Canada obviously made the wrong choice, so next time you're visiting the doctor, remember, you could have had cheap games instead. --deadend, Evil Avatar forums.
Nouvelles de jeux et technologies en français. TC
From the summary: "... the described symptoms actually most closely resemble pathological gambling, rather than an addiction."
If you can't stop doing something, you're addicted. That's pathological.
I've noticed that when somebody starts splitting hairs like that, they're trying to get out of doing something that they should be doing.
I'm a kid with ADHD, addicted to gaming and the Internet, with restless leg syndrome. I'd like to get some more uppers to paradoxically take care of my attention problems, some downers to counteract the uppers, and some sleeping pills to help me stop checking my mail late into the night. My parents don't care what I do in my free time as long as I'm still going to school, and you'll never believe some of the stuff I've found online. I want to quit gaming so much, but I may need drugs to do that too....
u-bend
Seriously folks, anything which can stimulate ones mind in such a dramatic fashion as video games can will become addictive to people whose brains are susceptible to chemical addiction. Playing a video game releases chemicals in your brain, tons of them. I believe it's the same exact endorphins or whatever (I'm not a neuroscientist) that get released when you get 777 on the slots as it is when you get a purple epic drop in World of Warcraft. At least my therapist tells me so and she's got a PhD in this stuff.
... However they then tell you "Give up your problems to god and go to a spiritual advisor at a Generic Anonymous support group." I'm sorry but after all your science and reasoning you're telling me the only cure to my excessive Molten Core raiding (or drinking, or drugging, or gambling, etc.) is to talk it over with my peers and let God sort out the details? A higher power is the only one who can re-balance my out of whack brain chemistry???
Addiction science needs a lot of work though. As it stands right now they seem to be quite good at saying "look here, the brain starts to behave this way when a person gets addicted to a specific behavior or chemical"
I'm sure a good amount of people here might fire right back at this response and say "There is no proof of addictive nature of games etc. etc." but reports like this are becoming more common and I think anyone with 25+ years of gaming experience would just answer the question "Are games addictive?" with a resounding "Duh!"
What we do need is a better way to help people who suffer from ALL addictions. If guys like Jack Thompson get their way then they'll just use the banner of video game addiction to push a Christian cultural agenda - not to improve anyones health or lifestyle. Way too much of the "solution" to addiction right now is based on some mystical guardian of your spirit who only comes to your aide if you follow twelve specific steps put together by two midwestern americans nearly a century ago...
Hi, my name is UnknowingFool
and I play WoW.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
This is total rubbish, never heard anything so ridiculous in my whole life.
Now if you'll excuse me, my Paladin is just about to hit level 42, and I've got a 16 hour raid I simply must attend tonight. Oh, and tomorrow as well. Actually, this week isn't good, maybe we can work something out next week.
Curiosity was framed, Ignorance killed the cat.
Does this open the doors to suing Blizzard akin to the suits against the tobacco industry?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
The cure is simple: sell your windows machine and buy a mac. Seriously, my windows machine broke and I started using a mac, and now I rarely play games now. When I do it is usually only for a short period of time, probably because the games on my mac are more aimed at having fun in short bursts than long periods of play. But I guess since WoW runs on the mac that won't solve an addition to it (unless you have the strength of will not to install it).
Philosophy.
Around the year 2000, I heard a statistic somewhere that the average American household watches about 7 hours of television per day.
Coincidentally, I have not had cable television (or watched television at home at all) in the past 6 years. I'll take my daily 2 hours of video gaming, thanks.
I think the real issue here is that playing video games isn't something that is respected as a valid use of people's time. This realization makes much of the video game addiction issue unravel. If a person spent just as much time playing or watching sports it wouldn't be considered an addiction even if they neglected other aspects of their life. If a person sat around reading novels it wouldn't be considered an addiction but throw some pictures in there and some bubbles around the words (comics, manga) and suddenly its considered and unhealthy obsessive hobby. For every person that spends all their time playing video games there are many more that spend their time watching tv or movies. Video games are singled out because of lack of respect and the perception that only kids should play them. Work is another good example. People use the term workaholic but in most cases the practice is encouraged and respected, yet it is more likely to end a marriage or cause children to be emotionally neglected and it is much more common. Mentally none of these addictions are any different aside from public perception and what the feeble minded media decides to single out.
Addiction is part of the human experience. You're not going to find anyone who does not repetitively engage in rewarding behaviors.
What we need to do is stop freaking out when people engage in behaviors that we don't personally enjoy. I don't like to golf but I don't need to insist that golfers need "treatment".
Now, depressed people often have trouble finding rewarding behaviors that are compatible with their obligations and responsibilities, but that's a matter for depression research.
Coming in from London
From over the pole
Flying in a big airliner
Chickens flying everywhere around the plane
Could we ever feel much finer?
CHORUS:
Coming into Los Angeles
Bringing in a couple of keys
Don't touch my bags if you please
Mister Customs Man
There's a guy with a ticket to Mexico
No, he couldn't look much stranger
Walking in the hall with his things and all
Smiling, said he was the Lone Ranger
CHORUS
Hip woman walking on a moving floor
Tripping on the escalator
There's a man in the line
And she's blowing his mind
Thinking that he's already made her
CHORUS
Coming in from London
From over the pole
Flying in a big airliner
Chickens flying everywhere around the plane
Could we ever feel much finer?
CHORUS
I was once addicted to the real world.
Internet and games helped me to come over it.
Today I can laugh at stupid people, attention whores and politicans (all the same) on TV.
TV is a subset of real world addiction.
Both are full of commercials.
(Courtesy of South Park) "Gentlemen, we are dealing with someone here who ... has absolutely no life".
[Insert pithy quote here]
But we're still at the point of defining addiction. When are you an addict? When you do something for a certain time per day? When you don't want to stop doing this and do something else instead? When you start thinking that this thing is more important than your job? When you would, facing the choice between your loved one and this thing, would choose the thing? When this thing becomes more important than meeting your friends and socializing? When you miss critical appointments, maybe even with your doctor, to pursue this thing?
If so, I'm addicted to living.
Ok, that was a blatant one, but it should show that different "things to be addicted to" deserve different definitions. You can't just say "When you do something for X hours you're addicted to it, no matter what it is". When I drink for 3 hours straight I'm most likely on the floor. When I run for 3 hours I'm hopefully near a hospital. When I play for 3 hours I'm mostly relaxed.
Then there's very different kinds of people. I spend about 60 hours a week reading assembler code. Am I addicted to movs and nops? No, I'm employed. It's my job, and I like it enough that I do actually do the same after I go home. Could I stop? I do every year for a month, and I barely miss it. There's so much else to do.
Maybe if there's nothing else anymore that interests you could be a suitable definition. But then again, there are quite a few very healthy people who have a narrow field of interests. Otherwise, I am pretty sure there are millions if not billions of people addicted to TV.
The whole "addiction" theme already fails at its definition. Of course, the subject line is false. They WILL come up with some kind of definition. It will be as arbitrary, indifferent and false as pretty much every other definition of addiction.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I'm in favor of the classification only if it results in hilarity of film production along the lines of Reefer Madness.
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/05/08
I'm not playing right now
In all seriousness games aren't an addicting substance. I've played games for a long time now, on and off. I've never found it difficult to stop playing, never needed any sort of help. I often find it hard to keep playing a game after playing it for more than a week or so. Maybe some people are getting addicted to game, and those are probably the same people who can get addicted to just about anything thanks to some deeper psychological problems. Last time I checked games don't put chemicals in your system that make you need to play them, they're simply an enjoyable past time that people want to partake in.
Next thing you know someone'll look at a bookworm and claim books are addicting because they were unhappy at being able to read their favorite book, or a moviegoer unhappy at being barred from seeing a movie, or, you get the idea...
There are two kinds of fool One says 'This is old therefore good' Another says 'This is new therefore better'- Dean Ing
There are some people who are addicted to their cars. Just look at the emotive advertising and hear the stories about how a girlfriend left because her boyfriend was waxing....
http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dhjjdf9j_5c2cch4
Information is the crack of todays age. Only problem is it's either free, plentiful or both. Information addiction ranges from MMOs and RSS Feeds to countdowns and refreshing your inbox every minute. My personal opinion is that's a more general addiction not to be narrowed down to gaming. I say this because I feel i suffer from such an addiction. The irony? Reading summaries and posting comments is like a mini "fix."
You constantly struggle for self improvement - and it shows.
Hooray for bad Engrish on fortune cookies
Civilization at 19 years old: "One more turn! Even if it means I'll miss class and fail!"
Civilization IV at 34 years old: "One more turn! Even if...ZZZZzzzzzzzz"
See, I'm cured.
...of people sucking the dick of the kid working the local game outlet in exchange for the latest expansion pack.
Heroin is addictive. Are we seeing similar behaviour? No? Not at all? Hmmmmm.....
This is nothing more than further abuse of the "addiction" crap. Everything is "addictive".
I think 'watching' is a gross simplification. Using almost everyone I know as a sample, the TV is white noise. It's on, but no one is watching.
The same cannot be said of video games. (Not that I'm saying "game addiction" is a medical condition or anything, just that its not necessarily an apples-to-apples comparison.)
Most people who play a lot of games are not really addicted to the game. It's an alternate way to escape reality because, in real life, life isn't good. Some examples would be depression, bad relationship, death in the family, unpleasant job, etc.. I'm all of the above. I get home from work and the first thing I do is play a game. I play games until I'm nodding off at the keyboard and ready to fall asleep. However, when I try to sleep (tired or not), the hamster wheel is still spinning and I just can't fall asleep easily. It's sad but true.
My roomate suffers from withdrawl when he is away from his account for anything over a day. It's just like watching a smoker or a drug user. They get grumpy, and easilly iritable. They feel anxious and can't think about anything else. They have trouble sleeping.
Gaming addictions can be just as bad a nicotine addiction, or they can be as mild as chocolate/caffeine. It should be a recognised addiction, for what its worth. Like most other addictions, however, your employer should not have to put up with unreasonable demands for accomidation.
Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
I'm so sick of this "gaming addiction" crap. If they really want to understand the problem, perhaps they should stop labeling it as a disorder on such a surface level, lacking any insight or thought whatsoever, and really try to figure out why these kids decide that it's a better life to stare at a virtual world in a computer than to actually participate in society outside of the virtual world.
Maybe they'd discover something about humans: namely, that we've caged ourselves up in an over-regulated, overprotected society where all of the natural animal aspects of our existence are gone. We no longer hunt for our own food, we no longer are required to be physically active, we are no longer small groups of closely interacting people, but rather nameless figures in cages.
And they wonder why people get "addicted to gaming".
We're animals, and when animals are caged, they do crazy things - like gnaw off their own tails, or shake uncontrollably, or become overly violent.
Good thing we only cut ourselves, kill each other, and sit in dark rooms with nothing but a computer and an internet-based fantasy world.
The problem is that researchers have been looking for medical treatments for addiction for decades, and haven't gotten there. Likewise, psychiatrists and psychologists have been looking for a better treatment program for decades as well, with no better luck.
Whether you agree with them or not, *Anonymous programs have the best success rate at treating addictions. Period. Whether the contents of that program offends your sensibilities doesn't change that current reality.
From your post, it sounds like you have such an addiction, and won't go to a 12 step program because the belief in a higher power offends you. Aside from the fact that you appear to be confusing the higher power with the Judeo-Christian God (there are plenty of atheists in AA), that's your choice to make. If you are "managing" your addiction with therapy, good for you. But that doesn't mean that 12 step programs are worthless, or only for the weak minded. Your post makes you sound like you have plenty more issues than gaming addiction.
"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
You are not forced to keep a drunk on the job.
But if he's going through therapy to control his alcoholism, then you need to make reasonable allowances for that (attending meetings, counseling and such). Until he fails his therapy and shows up drunk again.
Examples of a habit would be waking up before daylight, forgetting your car keys, or doing a daily exercise routine (getting laid counts I guess).
Example of addictions would be a habit that you depend upon, like a morning cup of coffee (caffine) in order to get "moving", or an alcohol beverage in order to escape from emotional pain.
Do we really need diagnosis like "addiction to chess", "addiction to talking to people", "addiction to gardening"? Playing MMORGs is not any different from these activities and generally it's nobody's business how we spend our free time. If you feel you have a problem, treatment would be the same no matter which activity it is you are addicted to.
I've been in a 12 step program before and they told me that it was better to believe in a ROCK then to stick with REASON.
. html
The success rate of a year in AA is equal to the success rate of a year not in AA. http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-effectiveness
In other words - the few people who it works for have simply replaced a chemical addiction with a social addiction (going to meetings everyday). Is that better? Sure it's better, cleaner, and gets people living again. Does it work for everyone or is it even CLOSE to a comprehensive solution to addiction? Not by a looooooooooooooooong shot.
"C'mon. It's the only education we got"....
Triple XXX
"Question everything, including this!" - http://technoracle.blogspot.com/
I've been playing for fifteen years and I ain't hooked yet.
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
Does that mean I can get a permit to park in handicap spots? Hey, drug addicts can (or could last I heard).
Anonymous Cowards suck.
Turn homework in moorpg questing.
I see this becoming like ADD and ADHD, where a few of us actually have it to the point where when we are an adult we can't shake off some of the tendencies. But then then it was classified as a major problem, and all of a sudden EVERYONE has it, and those of us who actually have it (not just appear to have it) get screwed. Suddenly it's Normal to have it, and that it's "ok" to have it, when half the people I saw with ADD were just suffering from normal adolescents that they weren't even growing out of because it was "ok" that's what made me understand what bullshit is. That was the point I told my psychiatrist to go to hell, and dealt with the problem myself because no external source could give it me. I still have some of the tendencies but the fact is I've dealt with them rather then just accepted them and most people don't realize I ever had an issue with it (and it was a severe case).
We have the same situation with autism currently. So many kids are being diagnosed with them, but is it merely a case of a genetic defect that is all of a sudden present in them or is it a case of a diagnosis that is just too broad and doesn't realize the term "borderline" really should be "is similar but not really". Personally the research and the cases I've seen seems to be the later. That doesn't mean there isn't autism, but the severe cases are getting grouped with the "normal" cases of anti-social kids who have imaginary friends (imagine a kid having that?)
Even the behaviors involved with the identification of the conditions are often at odds with itself.
But even this makes me believe gaming addiction is ripe for another "autism" where there's people with serious problems (read "people who play themselves to death", aka the two Korean gentlemen I read about 6 months ago.) who really do need help, will once again get clumped in with anti-social people who'd prefer to play a game than go to a bar. Do I play games more than I should? Yeah, but I do it rather then going out all night and partying. Losing a job because you're playing WoW is an issue, but preferring to have fun playing games doesn't qualify as a disorder, just as reading too many fiction books isn't one. Sadly the AMA tends to broaden their definitions too much to if you play more than 2 hours of games a day you're sick and need help.
I've been addicted to games before, so there's no question in my mind whether the state exists. Star Wars Galaxy ran my life for a while, and was such a draw that I had to sell my account (rather than just cut back). The same thing has happened to some extent with Pox Nora (similar to Magic, but online with virtual cards), which is significantly less involved, but still managed to chew up more time than I had. I'm in the process of dumping that account right now.
That said, there a couple issues here...
First, describing addiction as time in front of the screen is stupid. When I was in university full time (and not working), I played probably 5 hours a day average. I got my work done, spent time with my girlfriend, had a social life, and still had time for games. No problem, not an addiction. After I had a wife, job, and mortgage, 5 hours a day was a problem. Now that I have a 1 year old, 2-3 hours a day is a problem (which is why the Pox Nora account is going).
The real measure, which has been pointed out before, is how much it's affecting your life. The real issue is people being unable to recognize when they have a problem. That isn't a medical condition, it's just bad judgement. It's partially a parenting issue. If you've come to understand the logic behind "it's going to hurt now, but it's for the best" then you have a much better chance of making good decisions. If you are able to separate fantasy from reality that's also a bit of a bonus (+2 save vs. fantasy).
Second, there are a lot of variables, and I think distilling it down to "gaming addiction" will probably make it that much harder to deal with it. Not that I expect anyone's going to go to that effort. They'll probably just come up with a pill to give your 14 year old "addict" and everyone will get on with their lives. Considering diet alone has been proven to curb ADD and they still prescribe the pills (not sure if they even mention alternative treatments, it didn't have a TLA when I was in school. If it did, I probably would have caught it.), I'd say there's a certain amount of precedent supporting this prediction...
These are the original Twelve Steps as defined by Gammers Anonymous:
1. We admitted we were powerless over counter-strike and world of warcraft-that our lives had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that a Server Admin/GM greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of Books as we (try to)understood them.
4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of gold and ammo. 5. Admitted to the team, to ourselves, and to another human being (via global chat) the exact nature of our hackery.
6. Were entirely ready to have a Steam Admin remove all these blacklisted steam accounts.
7. Humbly get help to remove the wallhack files as they keep getting cought by cheating death.
8. Made a list of all toons we had scammed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would cause them to TK/PK you or others.
10. Continued to grind and "earn" gold insted of buying it on ebay.
11. Sought through google searches and forums to improve our conscious contact with players so as we can understand, praying only for knowledge so we dont look like such a n00b.
12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of countless sleepless nights with important things to do in the morning, we tried to carry this message to gameaholics, and to practice these principles in any games we might play.
People who play too much are avoiding life, and life's responsibilities. Anxiety plays a big role in so-called "addictions" -- People are drawn to their comfort places, where the anxiety gets focused away. Playing games is one such "escape" to a comfort zone. Some people have it so bad they go for drugs, or other destructive things.
Basically, once we acknowledge anxiety as the common link, we can dismiss individual "addictions" as being anything but the "symptom".
games don't kill people, people kill people.
god. what the fuck is up with people blaming everything EXCEPT the perpetrator.
"Aww look at that cute little kid up on the clock tower with a deer rifle.." *bang.. bang.* "it CAN'T be HIS fault.. IT'S THOSE DAMN GAMES AGAIN! cue Monty Python witch hunt, stage center
OTly, I see this (generalized) shit everywhere, from rapists, to thieves, to car jackers. "oh.. it's not his fault, it's the system! (or the school, or the environment, or blah blah bl*DISCONNECTED.(rant)*
there are 10 types of people in this world; those who get this joke, and those who don't
Video Games don't affect children. If Pacman affected us, we'd be running around dark rooms munching pills and listening to repetitive music.
My computer ate my homework and my dog ate my sig.
Wow, jumping to conclusions much? The GP was talking in hypotheticals, unless you really believe that he or she suffers from excessive gambling, excessive drug use, excessive drinking, and excessive Molten Core raiding. (In which case I would agree that they have plenty of issues.) He or she revealed nothing about themselves except that they have a therapist.
People who join Alcoholics Anonymous become addicted to the meetings. My ex was going to meetings every single day, sometimes multiple meetings. For the first month I went along with this, thinking it was healthy (30 meetings in 30 days was the catch-phrase). Then it stretched to three months, then six months. She was ignoring her family responsibilities, something that not drinking was supposed to fix. The truth was, things were even worse than when she was drinking. I complained. I told her I wanted at least one evening a week that we did something together as a family. Her AA buddies convinced my ex that I was interfering with her sobriety, that I just wanted her to be a drunk again so I could control her. What a stupid accusation. We separated, then divorced.
I have nothing but contempt for Alcoholics Anonymous.
Fun AA fact of the day. The failure rate for people who attempt to quit drinking without the help of Alcoholics Anonymous, 19 out of 20. The failure rate for those who attempt to quit drinking with the help of AA. 19 out of 20.
-- Will program for bandwidth
That's a good point. My (very young) daughter generally won't fall asleep without nursing. During the playoffs, my wife would keep her up during the games rather than miss part of a period. If still played a MMORPG and had an event when I was supposed to be taking care of her, I would have gotten a "you have a problem" speech.
In another vein, nobody seemed worried when I worked 16 hours a day, 6-7 days a week as a teenager. I guess nobody's worried about you getting addicted to your job because sooner or later you'll grow to dislike it?
That is, not to put too fine a point on it, a bunch of crap. When you write "God as we understood Him"(1) you are making an explicit reference to the Judeo-Christian God (henceforth JCG) Yahweh/Jehovah. It is made clear by using the word "God" as if it were a name (it is not, and should not be capitalized, unless you are referring to the JCG. Incidentally, even the Supreme Court was able to figure this one out, as pertained to the pledge of allegiance, so you should be able to draw the parallel as well.
Simply by forcing you to attend a program in which people are thanking "God" and exhorting you to give your life over to "Him" as an alternative to finding an actual purpose in your life the state is promoting Christianity (their goal is obviously not to promote Judaism.)
The simple truth is that AA is not about personal growth. It's about transferring your addiction. Actual growth to become a person who doesn't need a crutch to fall back on is the real way to keep people from being addicted to things, and might actually be effective, unlike AA.
(1) http://www.alcoholics-anonymous.org/en_is_aa_for_y ou.cfm?PageID=197
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Further evidence that you can be "addicted" to just about anything. As other people pointed out, It's possible to become addicted/obsessed over almost anything.
You are reading a copy of my copyrighted post.
...Step Three will involve Linus Torvalds.
rj
Watching lots of TV or reading lots of books can not be labeled addiction or else people will see what kind of idiots they are, so they go after games. They are high-tech and confusing to lay-people, so they are treated differently. But seriously, what the AMA needs is an addiction addiction, so we can help these people who label everything but what they do as an addiction.
If you spend hours, everyday doing something, then it will effect you. Especially the young.
Is it good? bad? doesn't matter?
I don't know. So we need studies.
Considering the nature of games has changed so much, comparing it to PAC-MAN is a little silly.
Oh, and if PAC-MAN effected people it doesn't mean we would eat pills and listen to repetitive music*. It could mean we have memory retention issue later in life.
Determining if something is an addiction is NOT removing blame from someone. It is a data point to use to help people make better decisions, and realize that some people might need help.
*All music is repetitive, by I digress.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Attn: Doctors
On behalf of the Internet community, and fellow human beings with addictive personalities, please stop differentiating every new behavior as another NEW addiction that must be acted upon. It is degrading to yourselves intellectually, and degrading to those who suffer from addiction. If you must continue to study and identify new addictions that grow out of the technological, and social evolutions currently embracing humanity, please take a step back and ask yourself whether the true psychological, chemical, behavioral, and social facets of ADDICTION, ANY ADDICTION, have been uncovered and fully understood. If the answer is NO to any one of those variables, please turn around and go back to the lab, and or drawing board. Humanity is progressing faster than you have time to understand. Either get to the root of these problems you so ambitiously speak of, or go back to examining the new nurse in pediatrics. Society and Government has enough stupidity in it without more Medical professionals throwing their $.02 into the pit on an issue thats probably 10 years old at a minimum.
Kindest Regards,
The General Public
Behaviour addiction.
Because in reality, people can get addicted to almost anything... the only requirement being that such activity stimulates the pleasure centre, creating the addiction response.
The term behaviour addiction would thus cover internet addiction, gaming addiction, tv addiction, and a host of others, and would reduce the need to have an ever-expanding medical dictionary for new so-called illnesses that are actually just variations on a single theme.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
I was once addicted to DAoC. I bought it the day it came out and started playing. I had always liked playing games, but usually bored of a single one (by beating it) and then moved on to something or waited for the next fun game to play. The nature of MMOs and how they never end was my downfall though. At first it was fun playing with some friends, seeing new content the game had to offer. After awhile though it was something I did everyday b/c I had stopped doing everything else I didn't know what else to do with my time. Watch TV, read, work out, go out with friends? I wouldn't have anything to do with those things. I would work all day while reading sites about the game. Flaming on message boards and reading about the events that transpired the night before. My friends and I had 8 accounts between 4 people. In every sense of the word I was addicted. I quit going out, working out, surfing, skiing...all the things that I had loved to do prior to finding DAoC.
:)) is that it can and does happen. Luckily once I was realized there was a problem (even though it was too late in this case) I was stubborn and hard headed enough to quit when I finally decided to.
What finally snapped me back to reality was the ending of an important relationship I know due in part to who I became while I was addicted to DAoC for those 3 years. After that, I basically quit cold turkey and have never played again. Looking back I have no idea how I even got to that point of being addicted to a video game, but (the point of my story
Your posts often have a note of gentle authority in them.
Thank you father.
[that said, i tend to agree with your viewpoint,... if not the tone,... but it might be my reading, too]
-- yeh, i know, my posts show a certain degree of cowardice,... believe me i'm not proud of it
Video Fever
The Beepers
WarGames Soundtrack
Working just the other day
You were an achiever, such a busy beaver!
Now we hear you've gone astray
And you're livin' in the shade of a video arcade
We don't see you on the street
People ask about you; life is grey without you!
Do you ever stop to eat?
Do you comb your hair? Do you really care?
And it's just a little to the left
And it's just a little to the right
And it's just unreal how alive you feel
Vaporizing everything in sight
And it's just a little to the left
And it's just a little to the right
Just a few beeps more 'til you beat your score
And you're gonna if it takes all night
And you never feel lonely anymore
Never feel blue ever now
Video fever's gone and took the fight
From you
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
Great. Now we need someone to define Slashdot addiction.
Do you mean that sarcastically, or should I respond by "sure, any time I'm not being an ass?"
Well, log in, and join the big parade. If you want to be anonymous there are ways to accomplish that which still involve a login (like tor)
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
"(unless you have the strength of will not to install it)"
I think you may have hit upon part of the cure. I knew I would get addicted to MMORPGs, so I took it upon myself to never, ever play one. Team-play FPS are bad enough, even though they are episodic, all your team mates cajole you until you play again. Just like an alcoholic's drinking buddies. It would be that much worse if it were never-ending but novel quests (in the sense that "Find the $ITEM of $ITEMNAME!" can be considered novel).
The nature of addiction is genetic. There are at least three effective solutions.
1. To never, ever addict yourself in the first place (Islam takes this approach, as do dry Indian reservations). China ejecting opium traders is another example.
2. To let natural selection take its course. Those individuals who are held in the thrall of the addiction reproduce less successfully than those who are resistant. (This is problematic in that if your entire people are enslaved through addiction, the remnant may not be strong enough to fend off further attack.)
3. To addict yourself to something else that is less harmful or actually beneficial. (e.g. AA meetings, work, etc)
As civilization has learned to simulate experience (books, radio, TV, video games, I suppose even card and board games can be considered to simulate trading or war), people have found the simulations to trigger the same receptors that the original experience used to trigger but in a more intense way. The only difference between an addiction to a simulation and the addiction to the drug is that the drug is closer to the pleasure centers.
e.g.
Drug addiction: Drug -> Pleasure Center
Simulation addiction: Simulated activity -> Sensory Apparatus -> Interpretation Apparatus -> Chemical Signal -> Pleasure Center
The problem with the drug addicted individual is that his brain is wired to perceive the drug as being the same as the chemical which triggers pleasure in his brain. And the problem with the person addicted to the simulation is that his brain cannot determine the difference between a beneficial experience and the simulated beneficial experience.
If I have seen further it is by stealing the Intellectual Property of giants.
Exactly. I mean, you could make a case for some sort of general "addiction" disorder, similar to the substance disorders. This would be related to OCD, and cover things like gambling, work, and yes, maybe even video games. But there's NO reason to single video games or the internet or anything else like that out with their own entry in the DSM. The diagnosis and treatment would likely be the same for all of them, why make separate disorders?
Victory or awesome!
>>I know people who get cranky if they don't go to the gym at least once a day
No danger of running into any one of them here
It's not a gaming addiction, it's a social addiction. Most of the people are addicted to MMORPG. It's not the game, it's the socializing aspect of the game. A lot of players are socially defunct in normal situations, but the games become a buffer allowing people to have something in common.
If you get a PI, DUI, or possession charge in Indiana the court puts you on probation for a year and makes you take anywhere from 8-40 hours of classes. I received a PI and had to take 20 hours of these "Prime for Life" classes. Among many things, they explain the various stages leading up to physical addiction with alcohol and marijuana and I can definitely see some similarities between "WoW addiction" or addictions of any kind. Here is a quickly adapted WoW addiction phase table
/quit without thinking twice and go spend time with them.
:P
Phase one: Take it or leave it
You can stand to be without it and while you do enjoy when you do get to play you only do it when you have free time that you might have spent playing other games. Your odds of ever getting to 70 are pretty low and are likely to have a few low level alts.
Phase two: Anticipation
You look forward to playing WoW when you are leaving work or places where you cannot play. You spend some downtime when you can't play the game looking up some items or character builds and other information about the game. You probably talk about WoW with some friends or co-workers who play. This would be your normal player of WoW who will likely hit 70 some day, make some twinks, and even join a light raiding guild. If anything else comes up with friends, work, or family you will
Phase three: Occupation
You spend almost every waking moment thinking about WoW in some fashion. Typically work and social life are impacted as you re-prioritize your choices and life around WoW. You probably join a raiding guild and have set times everyday when you login and play. WoW is the only game you spend any serious time playing. Anything that interrupts those things will highly annoy you and you are likely to alienate yourself from others who do not play as to minimize distractions. Relationships with friends and family begin to become strained. You have 2-3 70s and clock in at least 30 hours a week.
Phase four: Complete Psychological Addiction
Note: This would be physical addiction for drugs
Your life is WoW. Every activity in your life revolves around it. You might seek out a job that gives you the best hours for raiding, pass up on promotions that would interfere with it, or even quit your job altogether. Your friends and family rarely see you and you grow distant from everyone who is not a member of your guild. Health and productivity go down the toilet after weeks and weeks of little sleep and complete occupation with the game take its toil. You lose many of your friends and any relationships where your partner does not play WoW as well. You may leave your guild as they are no longer "hardcore" enough for you and either start your own or join a very serious raiding guild. If not you are likely a guild leader or very high up in your guild.
Maybe I should start a "Prime for Gaming" support group.
I keep telling myself I'm not the desperate type.
...before "Gaming Addiction" is enough of a "Mental Illness" to prevent you from owning or purchasing firearms?
Doctor: "I see here that you play voluminous amounts of Counter-Strike."
Patient: "Yup."
Doctor: "How many hours a day would you say?"
Patient: "About 3 hours."
Doctor: (writes things down)
-- LATER THAT DAY --
Gun Seller: "Your background check came back negative. Sorry buddy."
Thank you for reading One Man's Opinion. No participation necessary. Offer void where deemed by law or PATRIOT Act.
(From "My Name is Earl"):
Q: What does the "B." in Benoit B. Mandelbrot stand for? A: Benoit B. Mandelbrot
To clear up a confusion I'm seeing in a lot of posts, I just want to point out that there is a fundamental distinction between identifying gaming as an addiction and reporting that a certain game is an "addictive substance." It is certainly true that games differ from drugs in that they do have a direct chemical impact on the body. However, the same can be said for both gambling and pornography. Both have associated addiction disorders. Professionals in the "soft-science" of psychology analogize these disorders to other addictions based on the behavior of the sufferor. Classifying gaming as a potential "addiction" does not ultimately damn games, rather it creates a precedent for people with a crippling gaming habit to be treated. Think of this development as good for people with an obsession they can't shake without help, rather than bad for Manhunt 2.
-False
But you rarely ever see a heroin addict say "man, I'm just tired of the smack."
The average american watches 4.5 hours of television a day.
Is that an addiction or a mental illness?
Or is that acceptable because the boomers grew up with it, but not with video games?
They want to classify people who spend a lot of time playing video games as addicts. By classifying them as addicts, they are basically making it so that they can diagnose them and prescribe treatment for them. The treatment will obviously consist of various high grade pharmaceuticals. So... I play lots of video games, I get access to good drugs. Tell me where the down side is here? =) I predict hard core WoW raiders giving up their speed and Mountain Dew in exchange for whatever addiction mitigating chemicals Dow and Pfizer are pushing.
But what about the lame anti-MS joke addicts? They are the ones that *truly* need help here.
Do we refer to a serial killer as someone who is addicted to murder?
Ok, from a standpoint of classifying behaviours, sure I can see that you need a label, and when things being to have a serious impact on the rest of your life, we tend to call them bad.
ie: Gambling is fine, but compulsive gambling that ends up costing you your house, is bad.
ie: Online gaming is fine, but playing until you loose your job, is bad.
ie: Dieting is fine, but eating disorders are bad.
HOWEVER, in each case, while there are rewards (excitement, adrenaline, smaller dress size, etc) that encourage the gambler/gamer to continue "too much", I don't believe these take away the free will of the individual, so I don't believe "addiction" is a good way to discuss either behaviour.
A person may have serious personal, mental, or social problems, but IMHO, if they are still capable of deciding not to do something, but don't decide. . . Well thats their responsibility.
If they need some help in dealing with the situation, then that is a different question (I probably STILL don't care in the case of the serial killer, we're better off if he's dead or imprisoned) but so many times as soon as something is called an addition, its like a free pass for people to not blame themselves for their own decisions.
and they'll make drugs for it. Seriously, we already over prescribe drugs. Child a bit antsy? Give him ADHD meds. Honestly, I'm lucky that my parents didn't ever feel me being so easily distracted (literally, I would never focus on something for more than five minutes) was anything other than the symptom of being a young, energetic kid. Nowadays, I've got no problem focusing (moreso than most people, really). While this may seem a offtopic, it's a valid tie in. If you made it a disease, drugs will pop up to help treat this "disease". At this rate, there won't be a kid in the western world that isn't being doped on some drug for some perceived abnormality.
I read this case study and discussion of a young man with MMORPG addiction in the American Journal of Psychiatry written by a few psychiatrists with experience in this area (no pun intended). One of their conclusions is that MMORPGs cannot truly be considered "addictive" since they do service a social need of people who may have underlying social anxiety problems. It's definitely worth a read. Allison, SE et al. The Development of the Self in the Era of the Internet and Role-Playing Fantasy Games. Am J Psychiatry 2006 163: 381-385 http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/1 63/3/381
1-2 hours? Shit, I am a programmer and I seriously spend like 12 hours a day sitting in a chair staring at a screen. The entire time in the back of my mind, I am praying it is all over very soon. Haha.. actually I am 26 and after 6 years of coding I think I am gonna look into a new career.
So in a given month, I actually max out my yearly recommended quota of screen viewing - know wonder I look like Mr. Burns...
The success rate of a year in AA is equal to the success rate of a year not in AA.
Look into "Rational Recovery Centers" which is an alternative to AA founded by an agnostic who wanted something a little more scientifically grounded than the "give up and let God fix you" approach. There are both nonprofit and profit-oriented centers based on the guy's technique. It's a fairly simple method based on a psychological trick that helps the person disassociate himself from his addictive streak, called "Addictive voice recognition therapy." Basically, they teach you to spot that little voice in your head that gets you in trouble. Once you feel like you've got it down, you're cured. See ya!
I haven't come across any good hard numbers yet, but it's worked for one guy I know of who got nothing but meetings out of AA.
I for one do not have any problems and think it is perfectly normal to spend eight hours a day on the computer. Who would level my WoW character up if i didn't because she NEEDS me and LOVES me.
Better go play my blood elf gf is calling me.
So, like, yeah. I've studied this "Game Addiction" thing for a couple of years, and spent the last 8 months writing a book on it with a popular 'games therapist.' I think that publicizing these criteria is dangerous to the person with the problem, and also to society in general.
0 1.shtml
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we've all got opinions on this, but part of it *does* have to do with addiction. Some people might be suffering from elements of chemical, behavioral, or other addiction. School thyself:
http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20060228/clark_
But there are things which might look like addiction, until you look closer. Games are complicated, and so are people and our reasons for playing. Raids, purpols, fat men pretending to be hot 19 year old NE womenz. But there's more to it than just why we play. It's how we play. These games present us with experiences which are approaching the texture of real life. Interaction sets games apart from things like books, radio, even TV, meaning that what's happeing is like nothing we've seen before. Games can keep regular people playing in ways that look like addiction, yet aren't.
Lest I TLDR, I'm just going to link my reply.
http://neilsclark.com/archives/131
So if you are "Horny" and enjoy having sex, you are now a "Sex Addict"?
This doctor, and modern medicine have nailed it right down:
"I can't help that I'm addicted to (insert activity here); It's not my fault that I like it sooo much!"
This phony-baloney crap has GOT to STOP. The "doctors" who think this crap up should be publicly disgraced.
Here is MY diagnosis: "He's too f*cking lazy to do anything other than game all day, too f*cking stupid to get his priorities in order, AND IT'S ALL HIS OWN F*CKING FAULT! PERIOD!"
Of course, that would land me right in front of an Ethical Review Board, but it's true.
Knowing Google's lust for data collection, the Soviet Union is still alive and well inside the psyche of Sergey Brin....
I'm not a gamer, and I'm not trying to insult them en masse. But I've met more than a couple of video game widows. I understand men not wanting to go shopping, buy groceries, or go over to visit the mother-in-law, and women maybe blaming video games. But I've met women, attractive women, who couldn't get laid because their husband would rather play Star Wars or World of Warcraft all night than have sex. I understand having a hobby, even a passion, but being offered a blowjob tends to cut through the fog a bit, at least for me.
nd.
we are moving through a futuristic/cybernetic/utopic society in which people always stay connected, and eventually, think, decide and act as one.
old world, reminiscent of victorian times that values whatever existing norms as the "healthy" behaviour, does not understand this.
this article is living proof of that.
Read radical news here
Medicine and medical science have been corrupted by pharmaceutical company money, and the AMA is mostly interested in making money for its minions.
Yes, IAAD.
Definition of addiction is: "A destructive pattern of X use, leading to significant social, occupational, or medical impairment", where "X" is whatever a person is addicted to.
I don't think it's necessary to classify different types of addiction, it's basically all the same crap that should be treated the same way.
I have always found it funny that AMA has the same TLA as discharging yourself from a hospital against the advice of doctors.
When I see the AMA about to list these problems I see the baggage associated. Higher health care bills, excuses made, and a loss of "personal responsibility" as the conservatives like to call it. At the same time we have a volatile political situation where any excuse might be made to crack down on the gaming industry.
At the same time I've seen and felt some addiction first hand. I routinely forget the name of my last roommate in college because I never really interacted with him. He was always on WoW. I slept next to the guy and never knew anything about him!
I've also felt addicted to games first hand. I smoked pot regularly, drank all the time, and tried several varieties of other drugs while in the university. When I graduated the social aspect ended and I pretty much stopped cold turkey. It was no problem. Sure I missed the old days but I felt no physical or mental dependancy, and that was after 4 years of heavy use. I don't consider myself to have an addictive personality. Flash forward to today and I have had to destroy game CD's because I felt I had no control. The Battlefield series of games were the problem. I wanted to stop because I felt compelled to play when I wasn't. I was choosing to play rather than spend time with my girlfriend and do all the other things that were important to me. If I hadn't destroyed the cd I would still have the problem. Now I started playing counterstrike and that is even more addictive. I can't just break the cd because the damn thing is distributed via steam!
Right now there are political reasons to oppose such an AMA classification. I don't want further restrictions on what/how games can be distributed, but this is a real problem that needs to be addressed. I should be able to handle it myself but I don't know how I would end up if I had a more addictive personality.
I have a friend in the pharmaceutical industry that tells me for years the big pharmas have been lobbying, marketing, and pushing to get anything they can classified as a disorder and to broaden the definition of existing disorders. For example autism was once a severe condition, but is now an entire spectrum of disorders ranging all the way down to behaviors that many of us can relate to. They do this to push more drugs to more people. Getting more people diagnosed, getting doctors to classify more people as having disorders, and getting insurance to cover more problems all lead to selling more drugs.
When I was a kid, some kids were rowdy all of the time and all kids were rowdy some of the time. Now they have ADHD and take prescription medicine to pacify them...
- For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat
Those with serious psychiatric symptoms from playing video games including true addiction have accidentally created the "special circumstances" for Subliminal Distraction exposure.
i ng.htm
o mes.htm
You all saw the psychotic rant by the Virginia Tech shooter. He had created the circumstances for exposure by using the common room to study while others walked by ignoring him.
He could subliminally detect them as threat-movement to trigger a peripheral vision reflex attempt.
There were no computers in the 1960's when this problem was discovered. It caused mental breaks for office workers.
There have been two other murders connected to this problem. The Atlanta Day Trader shooting and the Redlake School incident both have evidence of Subliminal Distraction exposure.
http://visionandpsychosis.net/
http://visionandpsychosis.net/Virginia_Tech_Shoot
http://visionandpsychosis.net/Culture_Bound_Syndr