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Autism Reversed in Mice at MIT Lab
ClayTapes writes "It seems that scientists at MIT have been able to reverse the effects of autism and some forms of mental retardation in mice caused by fragile X chromosomes. They do so by targeting an enzyme that changes the structure of connections between brain cells. The treatment actually repairs these structural abnormalities which suggests that it may be possible to reverse the effects in children who already show symptoms."
The mice are still not talking... except for one.
This is definitely a good thing. Definitely. Definitely.
A-Bomb
There is hope for us yet.
Did you know, there are 773 words on that article page.
liqbase
Is a drug that turns people into mice and 99% of diseases will be a solved problem.
Think of the Children; Sleep with your Sister
Just being small and furry makes it hard for mice to socialize at parties. I can't even imagine how hard it would be for an autistic mouse.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
I hope further research enable the technique to be used on humans.
News That Matters.
They are not sure what causes most forms of autism. The fragile X disease is something in it's own category.
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I'm curious, how do u get a bunch of mice who are autistic to test? Do they make them this way through breeding or do they check thousands of mice brains to find the one poor mouse with autism? As far as I know there's no way to give something autism.
There have been reports that Daniel Benoit, the 7-year-old boy murdered by his pro-wrestler father Chris Benoit over the weekend, suffered from fragile X syndrome.
While it would be irresponsible to speculate whether the boy's (unconfirmed) condition had any relation to the horrible acts... I'll do it anyway, because I'll be damned if the media's speculation that Chris had "roid rage" was any less irresponsible or harmful.
If Chris Benoit took his son's life because he felt it was more merciful than allowing to live with this condition, it is an awful, awful irony that news of hope of a cure has come so immediately after the tragedy.
Also, gender chromosome related conditions are almost exclusive to men, whether the defect is on the X or the Y chromosome (the reason being that women have two X chromosomes, and a healthy one will usually mask the damaged one). So this might have some impact on treatment of certain types of male autism. Yes, that may be a narrow scope, but it's better than no scope at all.
Regards,
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*Art
Here's some information for those of you interested. I'm not an authority on this, except that I once did a 6 minute presentation for one of my biology classes.
Some researchers believe that autism causes it's havoc by interfering with the brains ability to prune existing connections between neurons. This is also pointed at as the reason that many autistic children appear normal for the first X months of development...they have to build up enough neurons linked to everything else before they lose the ability to function.
For the same reason, many believe that treatments that restore the brains ability to prune those connections could restore normal function to people with autism, even if they are already adults.
Joyous times, indeed.
You are awash in a sea of fiercely stated opinions. Obvious exits are: 'File->Quit', 'Reply', and 'Page Down'.
We've been needing some of that down here in the South for a looong time...
but then in the morning you find yourself unable to count matches spilled on the floor, break the bank playing blackjack and eventually communicate with the objects around you. Beware, beware.
\u262D = \u5350
One thing to note is that this isn't a drug; it's a dominant negative transgene, so you're not going to popping pills for this any time soon.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
Sadly, the project was cut short when the mice intentionally reversed the treatments, having found themselves unable to relate to their newly-lovestruck trainers.
Why is it that all the good things happen to mice? I have to agree with Scott Adams' views on this one.
So did they stop giving them shots with thimerosal?
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
I for one am very happy to know that there is hope for Autistic mice.
When will the treatment be available in pet shops.
The weathers here - Wish you were beautiful
I have always wondered how such a cure for (types of) autism would be handled when you factor in the push by some to recognize Autism as merely another frame of mind (so to speak). Similar to the mutants in X-Men III when faced with the cure, parents would be faced with allowing their child to grow up austistic (with all the advantages it conveys, and all of the disadvantages) or to give the child a "normal" life, however that may be defined and again, with all the benefits and drawbacks thereof.
Autism Acceptance
Maybe the answer is just as simple as 'cured'. But something tells me that it will never be that simple.
This sig isn't original enough, it's time to come up with something witty...
How can they determine a mouse has autism?
"Please, shut up. Just when I think you can't say anything more stupid, you speak again." -Archie Bunker.
"Prior to treatment they showed signs of hyperactivity, purposeless and repetitive movements."
Sounds more like someone surfing the net for pr0n, accompanied by the sound of one hand clapping ...
Kevin Smith on Prince
I've tried, I've even registered here but no babes. Well I meet a girl but she wasn't sufficient ;D
Fragile X is in the Autism spectrum but to say it 'cures autism' is very misleading. I find these types of press releases very detrimental for parents with children with autism, it gives them false hope. Last night on nightline they focused upon two differing views on autism treatments and causes and I found some of it very disturbing and downright reckless "science".
First, there are the religious types, who dissapprove because "that's how God made them."
Then there are the parents (religious or not) who say "my child is special and I wouldn't want them any other way." You'd be surprised how often this sentiment gets expressed.
Not everyone believes that (and I don't mean it in a negative sense) is a laudible goal for science.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
"P.S. please if you get a chanse put some flowrs on Algernons grave in the bak yard."
"Some books contain the machinery required to create and sustain universes."-Tycho
"If I had not been what I am, what would I have been?" wonders Lou Arrendale, the autistic hero of Moon's compelling exploration of the concept of "normalcy" and what might happen when medical science attains the knowledge to "cure" adult autism. Arrendale narrates most of this book in a poignant earnestness that verges on the philosophical and showcases Moon's gift for characterization. The occasional third-person interjections from supporting characters are almost intrusive, although they supply needed data regarding subplots. At 35, Arrendale is a bioinformatics specialist who has a gift for pattern analysis and an ability to function well in both "normal" and "autistic" worlds. When the pharmaceutical company he works for recommends that all the autistic employees on staff undergo an experimental procedure that will basically alter their brains, his neatly ordered world shatters. All his life he has been taught "act normal, and you will be normal enough"-something that has enabled him to survive, but as he struggles to decide what to do, the violent behavior of a "normal friend" puts him in danger and rocks his faith in the normal world. He struggles to decide whether the treatment will help or destroy his sense of self. Is autism a disease or just another way of being? He is haunted by the "speed of dark" as he proceeds with his mesmerizing quest for self-"Not knowing arrives before knowing; the future arrives before the present. From this moment, past and future are the same in different directions, but I am going that way and not this way.... When I get there, the speed of light and the speed of dark will be the same." His decision will touch even the most jaded "normal."
There's no possibility of a 7'6" 320LB retarded kid having parts of his brain repaired that would make him realize he was being picked on or remember the names of those people with this research, right ?
Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
Why are you so sure its a good thing?
How many of histories most creative people might have been "cured" before they achived their greatness?
I will agree that this would be great in extreme cases, but I worry about how it would be used "cure" people who just have enough autism to see the world differently and who ask the questions that "normal" people never think to ask, or don't want to. You know, the questions like "could I still see my reflection in a mirror if I traveled at the speed of light?", Einstien asked that one, and brought forth modern physics.
Think about the all the things that where invented or discovered in the course of human history, I would bet that almost all of them where made by people who had autism or Aspergers to some degree.
I for one welcome our socially outgoing, well-adjusted, fuzzy minuscule overlords.
This post expresses my opinion, not that of my employer. And yes, IAAL.
"Flowers for Algernon", Daniel Keyes...
But, People magazine and Tom Cruise told me that vaccines cause autism! How can a vaccine cure autism?
Typically, (from what I've seen) those are people with Asperger's Syndrome. They can still function in society, even if they aren't very social, and the Asperger's gives them a level of focus and concentration on mundane things that the rest of us don't have, which can help in certain careers, like programming..
Of course Autism is a spectral disorder, but people with full-blown autism probably aren't normally capable of even understanding the choice. That said, my little sister with Asperger's would definitely reverse it in a heartbeat if there were a way to do it right now. She has had a tough time finding a niche where she can apply herself for her career, and she has always struggled socially, which has made her feel miserable.
As far as parents making the decision, though... From what I've seen and read, when autism starts to make itself known, the kids withdraw into themselves, as if their personality gets locked away inside their minds, and you're watching it go until it's all but gone. In addressing one of the posts above that speculated that many religious wacko parents wouldn't want to reverse that, I can assure you, any parent would want to unlock their child from whatever dark room they are trapped in. Just to be able to hug your kid and be hugged back, or to have a normal conversation, would be a tremendously wonderful thing after watcing your kid disappear into his own mind.
One difficulty is that the psychology community keeps insisting that there is something called an "autism spectrum". Last time I did some research on this, I could not find a single piece of evidence to support a spectrum - in fact, the little evidence that existed indicated that there are several distinct conditions that have some symptoms in common.
People are different. The heavy rush of attempts to narrowly define normal and drug people into changing is disturbing. Take ADHD and other "diagnosis." At what percentage of showing up is something no longer legitimately a disorder, and rather is a type of person.
As a parent, I'm extremely nervous when we let people define "normal" and call everyone outside of normal a "disorder" that needs treatment. When you start with treating genetic code, there is a fine difference between treating a disease (a good thing), and fundamentally changing a child because they aren't how you want.
I notice that there is a lot of straw man stereotyping of people "religious types two posts ago" and from you "stupid idiots that ought to be arrested for severe child abuse." I've also noticed the people who feel other parents should be arrested for doing things that they don't approve of generally don't have children.
There was a time that people were allowed to be different. They might be mocked, ostracized, or made fun of, but being different and having different values shouldn't be criminal. There is no "one right way" to raise children.
The human gene pool is pretty shallow as is, this rush to eugenically change things isn't necessarily good for the species.
So, when can we expect giant otters to run the world?
It's very good that non functional people can be brought into consciousness but the BBC description of the symptoms, cause and cure show potential for massive abuse:
Using purposeless and repetitive movements as markers for disease is frightenting. Children need those to develop muscles and co-ordination. Most adults would be better off not suppressing them as well.
Changing the structure of a person's mind is an even more frightening prospect. How do we know that the extra connections are not in some way useful? Could they be responsible for creativity and problem solving? This kind of treatment should be very carefully applied and only to those who are obviously bad off. A significant further ethical problem is one of long term efficacy and dependency explored in novels like Flowers for Algernon.
Society has already demonstrated it's willingness to abuse drugs in the name of conformity against hyperactivity. There is no doubt that too many children are medicated. The effects of those drugs are mild compared to this new class. It would be sad if society takes to altering people's brain structure they way it has taken to feeding kids uppers. The BBC's descriptions are right in line with that outcome.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
But did you stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night?
Ice Cream has no bones.
Is it too much to make sure that the cure not be worse than the disease?
The fella who invented the lobotomy got a Nobel Prize. Lobotomies were very effective at controlling emotions that were otherwise hard to control--this is before the modern psych drug was invented. But it cut a few nerves critical to normal social functioning in the process.
There is also the paradox of anti-depressants spurring suicidal thoughts, and the problem of older anti-depressants depressing every variety of thought. Those drugs were and are very nearly forced on people when the conditions they treat are caught, but I'm not certain that it's always to the best for the patients.
This fragile-X cure also messes with nerves fairly directly. The BBC suggests that this shouldn't make any variants of the lobotomy problem--we're talking redardation-autism, not Aspergerish autism--but some of us do want to be sure the side-effects aren't worse than the disease.
There is a fine line between recklessness and courage... -- Paul McCartney
The last BBC article related to autism described people with it as "unable to form meaningful relationships".
n ews.bbc.co.uk/2/low/health/6221064.stm+BBC+autism+ meaningful&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us&client=firefox -a
Google cache:
"People with autism cannot relate to others in a meaningful way. They also have trouble making sense of the world at large.
As a result, their ability to develop friendships is impaired. They also have a limited capacity to understand other people's feelings. "
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:XU_409HuLZIJ:
Jeez, talk about misinformation. I've Asperger's Syndrome and I certainly have meaningful relationships. Obviously my situation is much different from people with really severe autism but I would hazard that every autistic person can relate to someone in a way that is meaningful to them, even if it doesn't look like it to an outside observer.
The article's been changed to say "People with autism can have difficulties relating to - and understanding the feelings - of others. For some, this can make it tough to develop friendships, and to make sense of the world at large." Much better.
It's easier than it looks.
People with severe autism have no social life, for various reasons.
Mice with active cases of "severe autism" likely also have no social life. Keep them in cages with other mice, and it should be easy to tell which mice couldn't care less that there are other mice in their cages.
If an experimental treatment suddenly makes an "autistic" mouse notice and care that there are other mice in its cage, then it is treating the autism.
There is a fine line between recklessness and courage... -- Paul McCartney
It took far too long for an Algernon reference. Thank you.
I'm astonished nobody got the Rainman "definitely" joke from my original post. Not modded funny, and no mentioned of it in posted replies. Maybe everyone reading and posting is ... autistic?
A-Bomb
One theory of autism that has received a fair amount of attention in the past few years is that autistic spectrum disorders may result from mirror neuron dysfunction. The mirror neuron system is thought to allow humans (and some primates) to mentally simulate the actions of others, thereby allowing greater understanding of their intentions and motivations. Preliminary results (PDF) indicate that this system may be impaired in individuals with ASD, resulting in characteristic social deficits as the result of inability to internally simulate observed actions.
Snowclone is the new clich
If Asperger's is like being colour blind, well, I can say that sometimes I'm happy to not see those colours.
1. I hear or read expressions every day to the effect of "he had an honest face", "he looked sincere" or "he had a poker face" or "said it with a straight face", or the fateful step forward from there: "I'd know if he was lying to me." For me that just doesn't exist, but I'll choose to believe that the people saying that stuff actually know what they're talking about. Or maybe it's wishful thinking and make belief for them too, I wouldn't know.
Either way, then I see people falling for the most unbelievable lies, either from the local sociopath or from the the nice IBM/MS/whatever salesman, because, hey, he was "looking honest" and saying that crap "with a straight face" and generally giving the "right signals." It's typically stuff you'd think noone with half a brain would actually believe, if they only engaged their logic for a second. But they believe it anyway, because someone deliberately fed them the false body language signals.
I've known and been around people whose main skill and way to make a living was, basically, giving whatever body language signals they wanted to give. Saying the most mind-boggling lies "with a straight face" and "looking honest", "looking hurt" when they wanted to look hurt, or even getting tears in their eyes on demand. (That last one I can actually tell.) And people swallowed it all hook, line and sinker, because, hey, their instincts tell them to trust that nice person now, to try to cheer them up the next moment, and god knows what else.
Me, I don't even see that kind of stuff, I have to trust other people when they assure me that the nice salesman definitely looked sincere when he sold them that crap. My natural instinct would be to just take that series of statements for what it _is_, and see if it actually produces the conclusion I'm fed. Instead of getting stuck on taking dumb shortcuts like "it must be true, because he looks honest" or "naah, it would be mean of me to hurt him more by dissecting what he just said."
In effect, I'm naturally shielded from what, as far as I can extrapolate, seems to be a very common form of deception. I'm "colour-blind" (metaphorically speaking) in a world where it seems rather common for some people to use colours for deception, deceit, fraud. I can be thankful for that.
2. It seems a rather common trend for Asperger's Syndrome people to be, abover all else, logical, fascinated by one or more narrow scientific domains, and prone to hyper-focus when working on that domain.
It's, if you will, like distributing stat points or traits in a D&D-type game. You take some points from here, and put them in that other stat. Or like when you roll a mage instead of a warrior, you lose HP and armour class, but gain spells.
Ok, maybe not the best analogy, but you surely understand what I mean: it's not just a handicap, we got something else in return. We're the guys who were _fascinated_ by how a radio works, or by assembly language, while the other kids were playing popularity games. We're the guys who (assuming we found a willing listener) were talking about the differences between Haskel and Prolog, while the other teenagers were debating whether Jane or Amy is more fashionable. We're the guys who go into a hyper-focus trance and produce a big block of code, or the proof of a theorem, while the rest of the gang plods through changing an if here and a sign there and see if it worked. Etc.
Admittedly, it's not for everyone, and I'm not saying everyone should be like that. If your goal is to get into higher management, for example, honestly, you won't have much of a chance as an AS, and chances are you wouldn't enjoy that kind of a job anyway. On the other hand, for
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
and if i could sign him up for a cure, HELL YES I WOULD! You all have no idea what it can be like... there are times he sleeps 4 to 5 hours a night 4 to 5 nights in a row and DOES NOT NAP DURING THE DAY. Try to work a full time job when you are exhausted completely. Mentally speaking, I can be a mush head. Then, most of the day he cannot entertain himself because he has little to no imagination... he will not get together with friends to play tag, etc. His family are his friends, and we have to spend almost all our time entertaining him. If my wife and i leave him to go move furniture or something together, we can come back to find him climbing over the top railing of the stairs. He would fall to his death because he has no fears and no idea that he could come to harm. So one of us watches him almost constantly.
HELL YES, BRING IT ON BABY. B R I N G I T O N !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND JESUS, PLEASE HURRY!
soylentnews.org Go there to enjoy the people!
Hi, Jimi. The specific genetic disorder that they're talking about is not what causes all forms of autism--they're dealing with one specific kind of autism that's something entirely different. However (as someone who also has Asperger's) my hat is off to you for accepting your son as he is. :)
If you haven't been down-modded lately, you aren't trying.
Sacred cows make the best hamburger.
Actually, MIT is 45% female. I'd suspect Georgia Tech(25% female) and Caltech(15% female) have more trouble finding dates...
Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
Oh no, there will always be you to laugh at.
Bear in mind that the symptoms listed in the article are almost certainly NOT an exhaustive list. These are only some of the indications that a physician might use to test for the "weakened X" disorder. A complete list, however, would only end up boring most of the people who read the article, so I'm willing to forgive some incompleteness in a popular general news presentation.
And yes, society has jumped quickly onto bandwagons, as you've properly pointed out, and I agree that there is at least one instance where a child was medicated to become more socially convenient, rather than using more conventional treatments like therapy. But until doctors start using articles in the popular media as a source for definitive indicators of illness / dysfunction / what have you, I'm not going to let it ruin my sleep yet.
Strike while the irony is hot! -- The Freethinker
The pointer keeps going to a corner.
You are being MICROattacked, from various angles, in a SOFT manner.
Steroids were found in his home. Given that so many athletes have autistic children, has there been any inquiry into whether steroids are linked to having autistic children?
"Screw Sun, cross-platform will never work. Let's move on and steal the Java language." - Visual J++ Product Manager
If other reasons we do lack, we swear no one will die when we attack
Unfortunately that's not been my experience, and in a very perverse way: being _perceived_ as great, does not equal actually having the skills.
So, yes, a lot of people can get a promotion or pass for the great guru, based on being socially adept at deceiving others. That much I'll admit. But when you actually get to see the code they produce, or that they spent a week debugging Java's HashMap because they don't actually have any fucking clue about how a hash table or a linked list work, you start to get the idea that maybe things do balance out.
(And no, that wasn't a made up example. I've had no less than 4 people so far come to me with "Java's HashMap is broken! It replaced my item with another that has the same hash code!" *Sigh*)
And I'll tell you one reason why it balances out: there are only 24 hours a day for everyone. Every hour you spend on popularity games, is one less hour you spend on something else, like learning to do your job. There's, if you will, some consolation in being ostracized in that you have that time available for someone else. Maybe a piss-poor consolation, but that's how it works. You have a couple of extra hours to code something or read a book, because you didn't use that time on your social skills.
Of course, the world isn't neatly divided into 100% ace or 100% incompetent, so there are a lot of people who can be _decent_ at two or more things. But when you really move towards the high end on any skill, you have to dedicate a lot of time to it. Try to do it for several unrelated skills, and you just don't have enough hours in a day for that.
Also, given that people perform the best at what they like, it would take some kind of mutant that's equally uber-interested in everything to excel at such a broad mix.
Basically I just don't believe the myth of people who are great, curve-busting even, at a several unrelated skills. It might make for a good unattainable ideal or for superhero comics, but I've yet to even hear of anyone IRL who was actually a great programmer/mathematician/physicist/whatever _and_ the life of the party _and_ a great athlete _and_ god knows what else. Unless they have a time machine and can get 48 hours in a day, it's just not going to happen.
Which brings us back to the first paragraph: so some people _fake_ it instead. They use their social skills to compensate for the lack of other skills, and basically paint an image of themselves that just isn't true. They'll compensate for their actual programming skill by putting up a careful show and taking credit for someone else's work. They'll compensate for their at best sporadic and mediocre athletic interests by spinning fabulous tales about it. Etc.
Sure, that can get them actually more appreciated, but it's not actually being curve-busting in those skills.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
Q. How many Disabled People's Rights activists does it take to change a light bulb?
A. It's not the light bulb that needs changing, it's the rest of Society's attitude that needs changing!
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
I seem to remember reading that autism is diagnosed far too often, along with ADD and ADHD, when in reality it's just that kids are just not all the same.
I'd be worried when we start reengineering people's brains to try to counter a "disease" that is actually just typical childhood. When parents start worrying that their kids aren't "normal" enough, we start to normalize society. When we can't do it through parenting books, then we start to do it through medicine (ritalin?). When medicine doesn't work, we start to alter the kids directly.
I recall the movie Ghost in the Shell, when the Major Kusanagi is telling Togusa why they hired him. Everyone else on their team is genetically altered and cybernetically enhanced in some way, but he's almost entirely naturally human. He begins to feel this is a weakness, and asks why they chose him. She explains that when you over-specialize, you breed in weakness.
I think that in trying to "fix" all these maladies, we are in fact over-specializing our race, and there will be even more disasterous weaknesses that will arise in the process.
Alexander Shulgin develops and ingests all of the psychoactive drugs that he has invented over the years, and has written two books on the subject; Phenethylamines I've known and loved ( PIHKAL ), and Tryptamines I've known and Loved (TIHKAL).
He was for a long time given immunity from the law in order to develop and test the substances he made basically by taking either a base phenethylamine or tryptamine molecule and then attaching every possible configuration of atoms around say, a phen's benzine ring and arm, until he exhausted possibilities. All the while he and his wife ate, smoked, and injected various dosages of the substances and recorded the effects.
So he's basically invented or at least scientificallly documented the effects of a plethora of psychedelic drugs which 95% of the population has never heard of, and some that everyone has heard of.
Phenethylamines such as MDMA (ecstacy) MDA, MDE, 2-CB, 2-CT7, 2-CI, DOB (Probably the Brown Acid)...
Tryptamines such as DMT (super powerful psychedelic and neurotransmitter), Ibogaine (being used to cure drug addicts/alcoholics), LSD, Melatonin & Seratonin (neurotransmitters), 5-HO-DMT (psilocin in magic mushrooms)
So you see, people can just be allowed to test out drugs, especially the willing and chemists who know what they're doing, and have an idea of the effect the substance might have. Because of Shulgin doing that, it has made way for helping a lot of people with depression, post truamatic stress disorder, migrane headaches, addiction, etc, so it is all not just for the sake of tripping out.
Just to clarify, because obviously some of you don't get it: I have nothing against autistic people. Some of them are quite cool people. If they make an informed consent to refuse treatment for their condition, good for them, and I support them 100%. But we're not talking about an adult making an informed decision about the state of their own health here. We're talking about someone making a decision about the state of someone else's health based not on what's in the best interests of that person, but their own agenda.
And let's talk about agendas. The first one presented in the parent's post was religion. This is going to sound harsh, but it needs to be said. The health of your children takes precedence over your own delusions of how you think your god of choice defines moral. Let's say that instead of treating autism, we're talking about taking your son up on a mountaintop and killing him. If Bob the plumber does that and the police find out about it, when he tells them, "God is testing my faith," are they supposed to just say, "Oh, freedom of religion, we can't interfere. By all means, kill your son, Bob."? That's bullshit, and Abraham, who was presented with this situation in the Bible, should have told his petty god to go to hell; he's not going to kill his son.
Likewise, if you're going to deny treatment of a medical condition to your child because of religion, you should have that child taken away from you because while you're free to practice your religion to your hearts content when it comes to living your life how you want, you're obviously not capable of making responsible, informed decisions for someone else's health. (Sorry Jehovah's Witnesses, but this applies to you when it comes to blood transfusions.) Believe it or not, I highly respect religion, but not when it's causing direct harm to others.
The other situation presented was the "my child is special and I wouldn't want them any other way" agenda. Notice the wording of that sentence: I wouldn't want them any other way. Notice that a parent who says that isn't talking about what's best for the child; they're talking about what they want. There is a small contingent of people out there who are what I call "sufferers." You know the type, whenever you ask them, "How's it going?" instead of answering "not too bad" like any reasonable person does, they proceed to tell you about their back ache, their car repairs, their plumbing problems, their stupid brother who got arrested, and so on. They're the people who, if they won the lottery, would complain about how much taxes they're having to pay.
A subset of these people actually get off on being in a constant state of suffering. They love the attention that it brings to them from people who don't know them well. They just love that feeling when someone tells them, "Oh my god, that's awful! You poor thing!" Having a disabled child and not treating them because of this is about as scummy as it gets. If they want to wallow in their misery, I say, fine. But if they want to impose that misery on someone who can't make the decision for himself or herself, that's where I draw the line and say that a baseball bat is appropriate.
Now, speaking of the misery of autism, I'm not saying that everyone who has autism is miserable. Some of them are pretty much normal, and the cure may in fact be worse than the condition. If parents weigh the risks and benefits and come to the decision that it's not worth it, I'm fine with that, more power to them. But in many cases, autism is not just a matter of a child being different, it's a matter of a child not being able to function in society.
Is there a gray area? Sure, there almost always is. Should parents get leeway when they're operating within that gray area? You bet. But 1) if a low-risk high-success treatment becomes available, and 2) parents make the decision whether or not to have their child undergo it because of religion or what they want instead of the long-term health and well-being of the child, it's time for the baseball bat.
A misread title gives you, ' Altruism Reversed in Mice at MIT Lab'.
Sounds sort of like most of the people I know at MIT, actually...
So basically you're telling me that someone smarter will do better than someone dumber. Well, no arguments there as such, but I hope you realize that that's not necessarily an argument for curing autism.
The problem is that you're talking about two different persons, while I'm essentially talking about the same person with or without Asperger's. Because that's what it boils down to, when discussing a cure. Would the cure also raise their IQ by 25 points or so, so they can maintain the previous level of obsessive learning unchanged _and_ have time to _also_ become a smooth socializer? I seriously doubt that.
Unless you also figure out a way to raise someone's IQ, it is zero-sum just because it's the same person. Person A devoting 16 hours a day to domain X, ends up better at it than the same person A splitting that time between domains X, Y and Z.
But let's talk even different persons.
To be among the top, curve-busting aces at even one domain already involves quite a bit of mental ability for even one domain. Devoting lots of time to it is necessary either way, but won't make one an Einstein if one's handicapped by an IQ of 80. So we're already talking people who have quite a bit of brain power.
If you want to work and absorb information signifficantly faster than them, so you're left with lots of time to master a bunch of other skills too, then you'd have to be a bloody genius.
Now complete geniuses and renaissance personalities like that do exist, but they're rare. We talk in admiration of, say, Leonardo Da Vinci because he's essentially one of a kind. If there were a million Leonardos, you wouldn't have even heard of him.
If that's your recipe for multi-talent prowess, then it's not exactly practicable for most of the population.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
I don't think I said anywhere I do not want to give people the freedom over their own bodies. Of course they have the right to refuse treatment if they so choose; but I also can have my own point of view regarding whether such a choice is a rational one, and whether pushing such a POV that outright demonizes treatment through organizations I'm involved in is something I think we should be doing!
Objectively speaking, I'd rather not be disabled. It is not such a crucial part of who I am that I couldn't leave it behind given the chance. I can't force people to feel otherwise, but I can offer them the chance to be honest about it.
I'd rather not "wait for a cure" but mobilize resources for finding one. And in the meantime while we don't have it, we can certainly seek to spend our time on more immediate-term projects that improve quality of life... and yes, society's attitudes are a big part of it. Accessibility, for example, enables so much and helps one to help oneself. My problem with the social-model style semantic trickery is that it a) turns a "simple and contained" and possibly resolvable medical issue into one that is rather oppressively all around the individual, pretty much everywhere and b) it makes communication with outsiders so much more difficult because of the impenetrable jargon and conceptualizing...
You're sounding a lot like some of the activist friends I have who start blaming me for wanting power over them when I'm saying that they might just consider the fact that they are not bound by honor or a desire to seem like some disabled heroes (a bit of a cult within the disabled activist community). They just actively miss the point, like you do.
I want to play Free Market with a drowning Libertarian.
So there is hope for the general american public...
The whole thing of course is a tragedy. God will judge, not you.
Damn straight we will. What are you, some kind of holy nihilist?
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Nobody got it that your comment was socially inappropriate in this context...
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
And actually doing something to advance the existence a cure will at least give people the choice faster.
I want to play Free Market with a drowning Libertarian.
This is a treatment for Fragile X Syndrome, in which autism COULD be a result, but not always. You can find a good comparison at the National Fragile X Foundation
Fragile X has a very defined set of characteristics, mental and physical.
My brother suffers from Fragile X and I have taken care of him for most of his life. We participated in a study at the UC Davis Mind Institute in which they recently completely a very comprehensive research program into the disorder. It's only within the last 10-15 years they've really understood enough to properly diagnose patients with Fragile X.
It's a VERY tough problem. Autism isn't a simple disability where some function is missing. It's more like a series of functions work differently, some are missing and some seem to be enhanced.
Some autists do not communicate at all. We don't honestly know if they CAN not or simply CHOOSE not to. That makes it hard to know what goes on in their minds.
We know that those who do communicate show evidence of things working a bit differently for them.
All of that and the likely irreversability of the treatment open some real ethical dilemmas. So called neurotypicals expect that they will just naturally want to become "neurotypical", but who is to say.
The best attempt to empathise is likely a vast oversimplification, but here goes:
Imagine a pill. If you take it, you will actually understand your manager and why he makes the decisions you do. You will likely be able to get a raise due to your improved understanding (you'll actually "feel" which "magic code words" to say to the boss to get him to agree).
You'll be able to tell when people are kidding or using figures of speech. You'll have some idea how people are feeling just by looking at them. People will be more interesting. You might enjoy conversations or even parties.
HOWEVER, your memory of past events will be vastly "de-rezed". You will lose both detail and richness of the experiance though the basic facts will still be there. For example, you may remember what you had for breakfast and even if you liked it or not, but you won't recall the texture of the food or be able to recall the taste in more than an abstract way. You won't remember how many bites you took, how many times you chewed, how many tiles were on the floor, how many people were there, or what page the newspaper was open to.
Other mental skills will be similarly dulled. You simply won't be able to hold many numbers in your mind at once. Multiplication and division involving large numbers will require a calculator or pencil and paper. Mentally taking a square root (other than simple perfect squares) will be out of the question. You won't know what day a particular date is without a calendar.
Your senses will be de-rezed and dimmer as well. You won't hear many of the sounds around you any more or notice any details you're not looking right at. Light will seem dimmer. The nuances of a sound will be lost. You won't feel your heart beating unless you concentrate on it (and perhaps not then unless you put your hand on your chest). Different blends of cotton fabric will feel the same to you and you won't smell it unless you put it right up to your nose (if then). You won't feel air currents on your skin unless the wind is blowing.
Your favorite hobbies might not make any sense any more.
I could go on but I've probably belabored the point enough. Would you want to take the pill knowing it's irreversable? That seems like a very individual decision and may depend a lot on the degree of social imparement and how much it affects functioning in society. The thing is, it's simply not possible for anyone to really understand what they (or another) would gain or lose by taking the pill. It may even be that taking the pill after the critical formative years would cause mostly losses and few gains.
I can imagine it might provoke a profound identity crises (to say the least). Some will feel like it opened new doors they didn't even know were there (perhaps even feel lifted from living death), others may feel like it left them half dead and wonder if they should finish the job.
I worked at a drug company for a few summers in college (Sandoz - the company were Hoffman discovered LSD). We were testing ergotamine derivatives - looking for some neurologic action (headache/seizure relief).
During the safety testing, about 80% of the mice in the higher dose group chewed off their tails and paws. The safety data scientists decided to stop trials on that one.. It might have made a good psycho active weapon, like the Scarecrow used in the Batman movies.
..........FULL STOP.