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Belgium May Prosecute the Church of Scientology
sheean.nl writes "A Belgian prosecutor recommended after a 10-year investigation that the government prosecute the church of Scientology. The church is accused of being a criminal organization involved in extortion, fraud, unfair trading, violation of privacy laws, and unlawfully practicing medicine. Both the Belgian and the European branches of the church should be brought to court, according to the authorities. The investigation was started in 1997 after former Scientologists complained about intimidation and extortion by the church. Other European countries such as Germany have problems with Scientology, but in the US it is officially recognized as a religion. Scientology has 10 million members including high-profile followers such as Tom Cruise and John Travolta." Scientology has long used heavy-handed legal and other tactics to suppress opposition on the Net.
We're Watching.
Scientology has long used heavy-handed legal and other tactics to suppress opposition on the Net.
Hi. Welcome to the Internet. The neat thing about the Internet, is that we can communicate together, join forces, and accomplish any goal. At least we can, once we're done reading Slashdot, and posting LOLcats pictures.
Zhrodague.net - I do projects and stuff too.
Oooooh....L. Ron Hubbard must be spinning in his grave....well...his thetans must be enturbulated around their next body host at least...
[NT]
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Tom Cruise to come out of the closet?
The Catholic Church, on the other hand... No so very hard at all
European Community trade commisionar Ms. Neelie Smit is currently looking doing just that. She'll be looking at the state support the Roman Catholics have been getting in Italy.
As much as I hate censorship and think anyone has the right to invent any kooky religion they choose, this is true karma.
What goes around comes around.
Here's an article in which it's argued that Scientology is not a cult: http://www.slate.com/id/2171416/
It doesn't so much make Scientology look better, as make other religions look bad...
I happen to think that talking unsubstantiated nonsence and practising extortion and fraud is a hallmark of all religion...
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
Geeks have long memories.
Plus, add in the "Scientology uses Technology" angle (debatable, at best...outright laughable more realizstically), and yeah, there's some geek.interest.to.be.had.
It was about time for the shit to hit the fan. Let the scientology perverts face eu machine.
spoiler : eu machine will win.
Read radical news here
I have absolutely no problem with these guys believing what they want, or even doing as they please within the confines of the law. However, once they start over stepping the bounds of their local laws, individuals should be prosecuted. I stress individuals.
A religion doesn't become legitimate until the people are persecuted for a little while (see the Jews, Christians, Muslims, Mormons, etc)
Why don't we all just ignore the cult and let it die on it's own? Apparently the 10 million figure is highly exaggerated, which makes people think they are more of a threat than they really are. High up, Scientology WANTS to be persecuted so they can energize their followers and gain the sympathy of others.
Scientology is the only religion invented by a SciFi writer. Nerds read SciFi. Ergo, news for nerds.
Sue the Pope? Good luck with that. You can't sue the Pope. As the Bush administration rightly pointed out (and you have no idea how rare it is for me to agree with that administration), in the U.S. the Pope is considered a foreign head-of-state, with all of the legal protections that that entails. We could invade the Vatican and bomb the Pope, but we could not sue him in a U.S. court of law any more than we could the Prime Minister of the U.K.
That said, Scientology's accused of: "extortion, fraud, unfair trading, violation of privacy laws, and unlawfully practicing medicine." I'm not sure that you can accuse Roman Catholicism (as a whole, discounting fringe groups that aren't practicing core doctrine) of most of those.
It might be something to do with this. Scientologists issued a DCMA takedown notice against /. after part of OT III was posted on here by a random user.
If I have nothing to hide, you have no reason to search me
Xenu Smack Your Ass !!
The US government does not officially recognize any organization as a religion. There is the definition of church under section 501(c)(3) of the US tax code as a simplified tax exempt body. But religious organizations themselves are not regarded as tax exempt, just the complicated definition of church as a non profit body. But there are no officially recognized religions in the US.
In 1998 or so they where already being cataloged as a sect, not a church, which is important here (state money and benefits I suppose). It is estimated that Belgium has 8000 Scientologists, which is pretty lousy on 10 million, but still, with the headquarters, it could be painful for them.
The biggest difference is how different religions react to critique.
Most mainstream churches in the judeo-christian family tend to bitch and moan about being misrepresented but usually leave it at that.
We'll ignore the Spanish Inquisition because that was centuries ago.
Islam will try to have you killed.
We'll also ignore how much more personable Islam was compared to the crusaders because that was also centuries ago.
Scientology will try to kill you without actually pulling a trigger by bombarding you with lawsuits and dirty tricks.
Status as a terrorist organization once they declare war on the Belgian government
So... Seems to me like they have some catching up to do. Most other religions have a big long list of depraved acts to their names.
Deleted
Scientology has 10 million members including high-profile followers such as Tom Cruise and John Travolta.
Don't forget
Beck
Jenna Elfman
Leah Remini (King of Queens, Old School)
Jason Lee
Juliette Lewis
and a bunch of others...
Seth
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
You can't sue the Pope. As the Bush administration rightly pointed out (and you have no idea how rare it is for me to agree with that administration), in the U.S. the Pope is considered a foreign head-of-state, with all of the legal protections that that entails. We could invade the Vatican and bomb the Pope, but we could not sue him in a U.S. court of law any more than we could the Prime Minister of the U.K.
Tell that to Manuel Noriega
There are certain arguments that no one ever wins. Examples of such arguments are: Religion, Politics, Sexuality and the Infallibility of Cowboy Neal.
If you have a religious zealot who thinks what he is doing is "God's work", I doubt anyone would be successful convincing him otherwise.
Apply that same logic to the Church of Scientology. Here we have nutjobs who believe that space aliens are the cause of all the problems in the world today. If people are believing such nonsense, what else are they capable of believing?
This coming down on Scientology thing for doing business as usual won't stop their practices. It will just drive it underground in Belgium or spur international outrage over those "poor Belgian Scientologists".
The game.
The head of the Galactic Federation (76 planets around larger stars visible from here) (founded 95,000,000 years ago, very space opera) solved overpopulation (250 billion or so per planet, 178 billion on average) by mass implanting. He caused people to be brought to Teegeeack (Earth) and put an H-Bomb on the principal volcanos (Incident II) and then the Pacific area ones were taken in boxes to Hawaii and the Atlantic area ones to Las Palmas and there "packaged".
His name was Xenu. He used renegades. Various misleading data by means of circuits etc. was placed in the implants.
When through with his crime loyal officers (to the people) captured him after six years of battle and put him in an electronic mountain trap where he still is. "They" are gone. The place (Confederation) has since been a desert. The length and brutality of it all was such that this Confederation never recovered. The implant is calculated to kill (by pneumonia etc) anyone who attempts to solve it. This liability has been dispensed with by my tech development.
One can freewheel through the implant and die unless it is approached as precisely outlined. The "freewheel" (auto-running on and on) lasts too long, denies sleep etc and one dies. So be careful to do only Incidents I and II as given and not plow around and fail to complete one thetan at a time.
In December 1967 I knew someone had to take the plunge. I did and emerged very knocked out, but alive. Probably the only one ever to do so in 75,000,000 years. I have all the data now, but only that given here is needful.
One's body is a mass of individual thetans stuck to oneself or to the body.
One has to clean them off by running incident II and Incident I. It is a long job, requiring care, patience and good auditing. You are running beings. They respond like any preclear. Some large, some small.
Thetans believed they were one. This is the primary error. Good luck.
Can you buy them on eBay?
Engineering is the art of compromise.
The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
Here's a full list of religious groups considered "cults" by the Belgian government. It includes Quakers (I am one), the Amish, 7th Day Adventists, Hasidic Jews, and others. Before you cheer their attitude to the Scientologists, consider the collateral damage.
Protect your liberties. Donate to the ACLU
I'm a Catholic but I deeply dislike the Opus Dei. I happened to be in a school where most staff had unofficial connections with them, and it was hardly bearable, mostly due to their overzealous and fanatical views on religious and related matters.
A CC-licensed illustrated horror novel
Similar to the upcoming US election results
Scientology is NOT a religion!
They believe that absurd fictional super-powered entities are controlling our lives.
They indoctrinate their believers to give up their common sense and rely on the group for 'truth'. They suck money out of their victims and they prosecute anyone who opposes their growth!
How dare they try to be considered a religion!
Umm.. wait a minute.. never mind...
- For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat
The Pope and his representatives don't try to stifle critics with nuisance lawsuits. They don't threaten or harass opponents of Catholic theology.
While I'm willing to grant the status of "religionist" to the membership of the Church of Scientology, the organization itself is a money-making scam that uses the courts to intimidate anyone who dares speak up against it. I'm content to let the average moron who buys in Hubbard's pile of shit go his own way, but the actual organization needs to be taken down a few notches.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Sue the Pope? Good luck with that.
Curiously, in Germany the Katholic curch would get into the very same trouble Scientology has gotten if the would fall back to the same methods. It's rather hard to seriously p*ss off German authorities and agencies, especially the ones normally reserved for Neo-Nazis, Right-Wing/Left-Wing Terrorists and ultra-extremist Islamic fundamentalists. But if you try hard enough you'll have Verfassungsschutz around the clock watching your every move. And for good reasons too. Scientology is a potentially dangerous cult which has officially stated multiple times that one of it's mid-to-long-term goals is to effectively topple the constitution of Germany and other democratic nations *including* that of the US. On top of that there are manyfold instances where there is federal court lawsuit tested proof in various countries that Scientology has repeatedly and proactively done the crimes stated in the summary. And that these methods are applicable as standard means of procedure through out the organisation if someone high enough in the food-chain should decive to resort to them.
Europe (including Germany) is generally notably tolerant towards Religion and personal confessional preference, but just as humorless when it comes to defending that tolerance and freedom. Belgian officials making this move toward the Scientology Organisation comes as no suprise to me.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
This is a closely guarded secret that I shall reveal to you now that ... NOOOOOOO!!! :::THUD::: Aaaaaaa... :::sound of dying Pac-Man:::
IIRC, Noriega wasn't hauled into a US court until he'd been deposed in Panama.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Atheists are not a singular group with a common theological stance. In fact, our common world view amounts to "We don't accept the existence of gods". Beyond that, atheists can diverge pretty heavily.
This is unlike Scientologists, Catholics, Muslims and the like. So just because you can find a few daft atheists hardly makes all atheists, or even the majority, daft. It's not a religion.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
No you want a REAL religion, you should be subscribing to Sciencolonogy.
It's the hottest new religion and all the big name Hollywood stars are taking part!
You see, 1,000,000 Jillion years ago, the evil alien overlord Xanus ruled the galaxy and a horrible plague of dysentery broke out among all of the populated planets. To eradicate the plague, he rounded up all sufferers of the plague and piled them into huge toilet bowl shaped vessels (see the Ori from Stargate, they stole the design from us and we will sue in internet court!!) and then dumped them into a huge septic tank he dug here on Earth. They died a horrible death in that pit and their souls came out and now cling to everyone elses souls on earth are all backed up leaving our spirits all gassy and bloated.
But have no fear... Sciencolonogy is here!
With our cutting edge soul plunging tech we can easily measure the brain to bowel flow of the bodies energies. By reading the life changing book Diarrhetics, written by our esteemed founder Elron Chubbard, you will learn how we can help you plunge your soul clear of these obstructive souls and allow your energies to flow freely. For a small fee of course. Your initiation will come with the first five pages of the book free and a free half roll of our patented toilet paper. If you run out, the free pages of the book should tide you over until you can get to one of our study centers to buy some more. Our study centers are fully stocked with everything you need, including newpapers, magazines and books, all for a nominal fee. Act now because we are having a special deal! You can get one hour in a stall with a door for the price of the ones that come without! Hurry, this offer won't last!
--Won't that be grand? Computers and the programs will start thinking and the people will stop. - Dr. Walter Gibbs
Tell that to Manuel Noriega
To be fair, he wasn't sued in court. He was extradited for trial on some drug charges after a little war. A state of war, originally declared by Panama, existed between the countries. I will certainly grant you that the timing was WAY too convenient, but it wasn't a suit brought against a foreign head of state.
"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." -Albert Einstein
Ok, there's a simply way of getting rid of these articles. Go to Preferences, go to Homepage, exclude all stories from Your Rights Online or just include the headline.
Just because the site is "News for Nerds" doesn't mean that's all it is.
Slashdot has the editorial discretion to put articles on its site that aren't geared directly at you.
How does the U.S. "officially recognize" Scientology as a religion when the First Amendment begins, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion ..."?
Just because the IRS chooses not to contest their tax return (after fighting them for decades) does NOT mean they are officially recognized. That's like saying I'm officially recognized as drug free just because the cops could never convict me of drug possession and gave up trying.
I mean, look at this crap:
...
1. Check for any BTs (E-meter, theta perceptics, intention, pressure areas, telepathy is HOW) on and in:
1. Body surface (WHERE)
2. Body inside
3. In thetan's space (Approx. 40' X 60')
4. On thetan
2. Run Incident 2, then Incident 1, until BT(s) have gone and are released. Then, check for additional Incidents 1's and 2's until dry (on the meter).
3. Return to Step 2, to find new ones to run. Use ruds while running if necessary. There is an effort to stop and hurry on Incident 1.
4. When complete, exact date and run both of the incidents on self.
5. If a bog, do Millazo Pack. Write down some 'mutual associations'. Re each one on this list, FIND THE INCIDENT THAT MADE THEM ONE, and run that. Then, run OT III, Incident 2 and 1 after that cluster is broken up. Occasionally, BTs will have an incident that made them one other then Incident 2, thus this action.
It just keeps going on like that. I hope they get sued for every penny they're worth.
By decreeing that no Belgium will ever be allowed to be 'cleared'. Belgiums win.
"We are all geniuses when we dream"
- E.M. Cioran
I see what you're trying to get at, but I think you have to remember one thing. "Islam" is not an entity, like say the Church of Scientology or the Catholic Church. Like "Protestantism", Islam is decentralized religion with many sects. There are certain entities within the Islamic world that will try to have you killed for what you say, but at the same time, there are lots of non-radical groups of Muslims (encompassing hundreds of millions of people in several countries around the world), in which this sort of thing doesn't happen. This is especially true in Muslim countries where the legal system is not based on Islamic law.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Tell that to Manuel Noriega Manuel Noriega was not sued in a U.S. court of law. He was deposed by military action. His trial occurred after his deposition.
If you're suggesting that we use military force to depose the Pope and then bring him back to the U.S. to stand trail... well, what you're suggesting is an act of war, just be aware of that.
When it comes to Scientology, however, there's no nation to deal with. They're just a modern, fringe religion. Thus, they have no immunity in a U.S. (nor, I imagine, Belgian) court.
You might just want to know what all the noise is about.
Scientology is the 20th Century production of pseudo-religious scientificism in America - much as the LDS church was it's 19th century production. I expect Scientology to be at least as virulent - and ultimately compromised into the mainstream - as its Mormon predecessor. It will even gain them "martyrs" as LDS fallaciously claim for Joseph Smith - beaten to death by a mob he defrauded.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
(And before the 'mericans get too comfortable, remember that inquisition is part of their history as well...)
Atheists are not a singular group with a common theological stance. But American Atheists are (not to be confused with Americans who happen to be atheists).
To quote: The organization was founded by Madalyn Murray O'Hair, the noted Atheist activist [and has] Published over 120 books about Atheism, criticism of religion, and state/church separation. Titles offered include "The Bible Handbook" and Madalyn O'Hair's "Why I am an Atheist."
Scientology is the creation of a science fiction writer's imagination. When he had a best seller with "Dianetics", he decided he could make some money (and keep the money) if he made a religion out of his dreams.
As a teenager in the late 1960s I investigated Scientology as I did many other things. They sent me literature which I read. It quickly became apparent to me (a teenager) that money was the real object of L. Ron's religion. And I (a teenager) wanted no part of it.
If a teenager can understand that Scientology is hogwash, bullshit and the work of Satan, what does that tell you about adults who believe it? I've lived a successful life without Scientology. And I got to keep my money (except for that portion that the government steals from me.)
Fata viam invenient.
If I have nothing to hide, you have no reason to search me
That is not true.
Co$ and IRS fought a battle for years over religious tax exemption. The IRS revoked the exemption with the justification that it was a profit earning business. Every court supported the view of the IRS.
The IRS submitted only after it was blanketed with thousands of petty Co$ lawsuits and it did not have the resources to defend all those lawsuits. The Co$ also infiltrated IRS staff at their offices. This is just one of thousands of examples how Co$ abuses the legal system through deception and half truths. Hubbard encouraged his members to abuse the legal system and to lie.
The agreement between IRS and Co$ remained confidential until it was brought to light via a FOI filing from the WSJ. When it was published there was a lot of outrage over the perks that the IRS granted to Co$ which are not available to other religions.
The Holy Bible is free to anyone who asks for one. Co$ is the only cult who charges their members for access to their "scriptures" which are split into multiple tiers and the charges increase exponentially as you advance through each tier. They pressure their brainwashed members to sell their homes, cash in their retirement accounts, deplete their children's inheritances, and go into crushing debt through credit cards to pay for their "scriptures".
One of the terms of the IRS agreement is that all Co$ course and scripture expenses could be deducted from income taxes. No other organization enjoys this perk and the IRS is forbidden to extend it to anyone else. That's just one of the terms that has raised a lot of outrage over the Co$.
The Co$ extorted the religious tax exemption from the IRS, plain and simple. Once that was in their hands, they waved that tax exemption at other countries hostile to their interests, but they were not easily fooled.
Hubbard filed for the exemption way back in the 50s to shield his quackery from government agencies like the FDA. Hubbard has been well established as a charlatan, a professional liar, and a barrater who has exploited the system at any opportunity.
The official definition of a cult is an organization that rejects Jesus Christ, uses their own "scriptures" as superior to the King James Bible, discourages their members from reading the Bible, and then poses as a religion. The Co$ fits that definition to the tee, and they are also a criminal organization in many peoples' eyes, despite the celebrity attachments. Good to see the Belgium is brave enough to prosecute Co$ as such.
Eternity: will that be smoking, or non-smoking? I Corinthians 6:9-10
"not very hard at all"?
try rubbing it.
Shop as usual. Avoid panic buying.
Um, GWB? It's too bad that his father didn't get his nuts crushed when he bailed out of that Avenger.
Hail Eris, full of mischief...
E pluribus sanguinem
Of course. I just think it's not the government's business to get into the classification industry. Government should remain entirely neutral on religious matters and make no judgements on whether the lawful activities of a group are, or are not, "cultish", "reasonable", "tolerable." I appear to be getting troll-rated because the slashdot community, usually super-cautious about the preservation of individual rights, doesn't care when governments crack down on religious groups. I assume that's because most /.ers are not religious, or if they are, are members of a very mainstream group they don't take very seriously anyway. I think /.ers need to realize that you have a right to all sorts of strange opinions, and a right to hang out with all sorts of strange people, and that in fact they themselves make use of this right all the time.
Protect your liberties. Donate to the ACLU
Speaking from personal accounts, those who take on the $ciclos must be greatly prepared. My good friend Keith Henson is still serving his sentence for "Interfering with a religion" in Riverside, CA. He's a good example of what the $ciclos can and *will* do to keep those who would oppose them in check.
I personally disagree with the fundamentals of scientology, I'm Wiccan.
Thomas A. Knight
Author of The Time Weaver
Atheists are not a singular group with a common theological stance. In fact, our common world view amounts to "We don't accept the existence of gods". Beyond that, atheists can diverge pretty heavily. his is unlike Scientologists, Catholics, Muslims and the like.
It is unlike them in the content of what is agreed upon - not the divergence. How many different sects of Christianity and Islam are there? Some of them are extremely different from one another and many of them have some really brilliant people in their midst. Just because you can find a few daft theists hardly makes all theists, or even the majority, daft.
Your reaction to the criticism in the gp is a great opportunity to learn how this argument looks from both sides.
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
And yet you read this far and replied to a nested post... Slow day at work?
Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
Its a book of the month club, where you get the first book, and its so bad with so many loose ends but slightly interesting enough that you want to get the next book. Course to achieve enlightenment you have to read the series, and each book costs twice as much as the last one.
/\/\icro/\/\uncher
"(I'm British hindu, I've never seen a debate about my religion here)" - VJ42 VJ, I tried to mod you up for good karma ;) (not sure I succeeded though)
Thanks for the insight.
Europe (including Germany) is generally notably tolerant towards Religion and personal confessional preference, but just as humorless when it comes to defending that tolerance and freedom.
:-\
Germany humorless? No, really??
In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
OT, but I see quite a lot of people make this mistake - it's the DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright Act) not the DCMA. DCMA would be Digital Copyright Millennium Act, which doesn't really make an awful lot of sense.
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
Just saw a message on alt.religion.scientology, Keith reportedly posting from Arel's account:
Hi *****, this is Keith using Arel's email account. I am out, Amber
picked me up and Arel and I have not been followed by cult PIs.
More in a day or two.
Best wishes,
Keith
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
... which proves scientologist will survive (though they will loose the case), spread out through the galaxy and are the basis of the most offensive word in the universe ... which is then returned back in time to finally end up in our copy of the hithhikers' guide to the galaxy.
Well, how many tanks does the pope have anyway?
END COMMUNICATION
There, fixed that for you. Please don't quote people and modify the quotation.
I did not, in fact, mean to use the word "cult", as that word is rarely used by any two people to mean the same thing. It can refer to any small religion (which is arguably the correct usage in the modern sense). It can refer to any body of religious practices (this is an archaic usage). It can refer to organizations that use religion purely as cover to perform illegal or immoral acts (Jonestown comes to mind) or otherwise separate membership from the rest of society (e.g. the Unification Church). It can refer to religions which are not considered "acceptable alternatives" by the mainstream (e.g. Christians in the U.S. referring to Paganism). It can refer to any religion that is not the speaker's (I've heard many U.S. Baptists refer to Roman Catholicism this way). It's just not a useful word.
Just about every Muslim out there is going to find common ground on some points, the chief differences often being rather historical and esoteric. As to Christians, that is a much more diverse group, but if you exclude really weird deviations like Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses and Unitarians (all of which, can be argued, IMO, not to be Christian) have certain core beliefs. In all cases, they have considerably more core beliefs in common than you will find among many atheists.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
You could sue the Vatican - i.e. the state. You could sue the Pope, although you'd probably have to do it in the courts of the Vatican.
no taxation without representation!
Overall, the only thing that the U.S. could do that would be arguably stupider would be to bomb Beijing or Jerusalem.
OK...though it was before the migration. (The Salem trials are notorious because they were unusual...not because they were very excessive.)
N.B.: This is true of the British, also. They (and we) reserved their (our) venom for other christians. See Bloody Mary, et al. In the U.S. it was usually political. (See the alien and sedition acts.)
OTOH, if McCarthy hadn't been so foolish as to challenge the Army...we might have seen a close modern day repetition. (Note the close ties between McCarthy -> Nixon -> Reagan. I'm not quite sure how the Bushes fit into this scenario. They are probably linked, but I don't have solid information.)
Also don't forget the KKK, etc. Not particularly anti-other-religions only because they had easier targets, but they were explicitly anti-Jew and anti-Catholic. Some places they may well have effectively had local mini-inquisitions being run that just didn't get a lot of publicity.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Deleted
Well sure. When one decides that something doesn't exist, that's really the end of it. There's not much more to agree on. But my point is that this comparison is false because it just chooses a scope that fits what is posited. Sure - you can find some areas of agreement in regards to certain things. And then huge variations on many other things.
My primary assertion is that humans tend to fall into this trap of thinking every other group is full of idiots but their group is somehow different. I'm not knocking atheists - I'm trying to say that every group that fits under what ever label you want to slap on it has some good folks and some idiots. And I think that the original exchange illustrated my point very well.
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
Must be something in the air today. Agreed with your post all the way until that last paragraph. I think most people, including most christians, would not agree with your definition of a cult. Unless, that is, you are talking about a christian cult.
See, I don't reject JC, I respect JC. I just don't think he was the son of God. If you read your KJB, you'll find that he never claims to be the son of God. There is at least one mention of the son of God in the gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John), however it's not in reference to JC. The closest JC ever came to claiming to be the son of God is saying something like 'our Father'. I think his response when asked is very telling.
Paul aka Saul, aka 'not a disciple, who never met JC', was probably more responsible for the Romanization of the early church and subsequent deification of JC, then anyone.
Anywhile, to quote the mahatma, "I would have been a christian, if it wasn't for the christians".
Have you heard of the anti-defamation league?
I'm gonna need a spec.
Hop over to www.xenu.net for more details on this. They're the worst Usenet spammers in history, 3000 messages a night in one newsgroup for many months, using throwaway accounts at ISP's bought with cash and connected with long-distance dialup lines. They also destroyed the old anon.penet.fi anonymous posting service.
That's a corporation, cult, or whatever actively trying to prevent discussion and doing it in a criminal fashion.
I suppose organised crime should not be classified either? There are some interesting parallels between the way they operate. Fear of getting "whacked" or fear of being sued into oblivion and blackmailed respectively.
It's a fine line. Look at the Jim Jones cult. Hundreds of people were brainwashed and coerced into suicide which perhaps could have been prevented if the government had taken earlier measures.
I do agree though it's a tricky one as I loathe censorship even more. Perhaps would be best would be to treat it as a suspicious organisation and nail them on conspiracy to commit xyz crime.
Actually not all that much will happen to Opus Dei in Belgium. It is a public secret that the Belgian Royal family is a member of Opus Dei. Films have been made and books have been written about this "secret", all very interesting. To make a long story short; because of the strong historic links between the monarchy and the high ranked courts (aristocratic past etc.) the prosecution or whatever of such an organization would be highly unlikely. They'll put it on some kind of list, but they'll never touch the actual religious group. However this is not the case with the CoS. I hope they proceed with this thing, cause this is absolutely not a regular religious group.
Why oh why do these investigations take TEN YEARS to happen! To my mind, it takes ten minutes to realize what Scientology is doing, and why it's to wrong!
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
First, the possibility that US would attack Vatican is so remote that it is almost impossible to discuss it.
However, don't count on the northern part of EU to come to the popes help. We are still pissed about the 30 years war in the 17th century. Northern Europe is protestant and don't care for the pope. Actually, the present pope have said some things about protestant that haven't really made the relationship between Vatican and northern Europe better.
Btw, Russia is orthodox and don't care about the pope either.
Please don't quote people and modify the quotation, dumbass.
Uh....could you be a little more adult about this ? Chill out.
Unlike Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses, many Unitarians do not claim to be Christian. As I understand the church, you can be Christian and a Unitarian, you can be Pagan and a Unitarian, etc. Last year there was some complaining about the Unitarian Church putting fliers in kid's backpacks regarding a Yule time Pagan celebration. The beauty of it was that Falwell's efforts the previous spring (to force the school to allow religious literature so that they could advertise vacation Bible school) made it all possible.
Ben Hocking
Need a professional organizer?
I'm not sure the Swiss Guard are really intended to defend against foreign invasion. I think Italy has an agreement with the Vatican to defend the Vatican if it's attacked. If the US attacked anywhere in Europe, I expect much of the world would attack them - many of them would attack now if only they could win, they just need enough allies, and the US attacking Europe would give them plenty of allies.
Would it surprise anyone if it turns out there's a nuke hidden at the top of St. Peter's Basilica? That could make any invasion a little more interesting...
That's the thing isn't it? Scientology is bizarre and ridiculous, and yet how can one criticize it without casting doubt on all religions? How can one say that stories about volcanoes, space ships, and H bombs are silly, but being swallowed by a fish and then regurgitated after 3 days is not?
Scientology serves as the "Reductio ad absurdum" for all religion. This may explain why so many feel so uncomfortable about it.
Nothing realy technical or for nerds.
Try to ask a mathematicians about their beliefs. You need to be thoroughly initiated to understand their religion. Not everything could be shown to the profane. Only the trivial religions, like Baptism, are simple enough to be grokked by anyone. More advanced religions were always a initiation cults, since the first pythagorean sects.
He doesn't need tanks. He has Holy Hand Grenades.
Oh gods... PLEASE don't give them any ideas. :/
"I am not a shrimp - I am a King Prawn! Pepe, "Muppets in Space"
Are you kidding? We had to sit around for years waiting for the Church to finally fess up because politicians are too weak to take a hard line. They shouldn't have waited on the Church, they should have started arresting priests for molestation and bishops for obstruction of justice.
In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
You mean the Queen. The Prime Minister is the head of government, not the chief of state. While he has considerable power, he is by law simply a British subject appointed by the Queen under the advice of the House of Commons.
In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
And there's this guy: Armenian immigrant and 5 others convicted of military-weapons charges in FBI sting, plotting to sell anti-aircraft missiles and in the United States on a religious worker visa for the Church of Scientology. What's up with that?
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
When I saw all those colour-coordinated umbrellas, I thought of the '60s show The Prisoner. Hmm, I wonder why?
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Xenuphobe?
Caution: May contain nuts.
I always wondered how that verse got started given that at the time of its "recital" there would have been about 5 Muslims.
Control is an illusion, order our comforting lie. From chaos, through chaos, into chaos we fly
YAAFM said it best.
For other gems of truth, click here
It is always better to be a first grade version of yourself than a second grade version of someone else.
There is something profoundly wrong with societies where somebody like Keith who has lived a productive, generous, pioneering life can have their liberty curtailed because they piss off somebody with greater access to The Law's capacity to pursue single dubious issues against anybody who has really lived.
But we should place more blame on the personal empire builders who are ensuring untrammeled expansion of The Law-Politics-Mass Media axis of evil^Hauthoritarianism than even the criminally motivated cult which has become so good at exploiting our excessive 'authorities'.
-- Our systemic servants do not good masters make.
You're jumping to conclusions here. There are other factors, including, but not limited to:
Examples of other colours for other type of fast food include Long John Silver's, which use a blue and green logo and theme, because they want to be associated with the ocean, and Subway using green as an association to fresh salad greens.
Also note that Starbuck's colour theme is green, and I don't think "soothing" is the image they try to achieve. Freshness is far more likely.
Regards,
--
*Art
Of course, it is very un-PC to point this out. Watch the replies to this comment for gratuitous attacks.
Scientology is a racket, but they have a ways to go before they catch up to "mainstream" religion.
Sustainability and energy independence essay
While Belgium's treatment of Opus Dei and other 'cults' may be hard, I don't see how this is relevent to Scientology. This action doesn't look to be about the religion. It seems to be about the church itself. If I started a buddhist sect that killed people, conducted violent "mediation" sessions, threatened anyone who left, broke up families and drained peoples bank accounts and did all for profit, I would expect to be prosecuted in any country where the rule of law is respected. And the prosecution wouldn't be a persecution of religion, buddhism would still be perfectly acceptable but the church would be prosecuted.
Bringing freedom of religion into this discussion is bullshit, because the CoS is not the religion, it is the church. If the CoS renounced persecution and violence and not required payment for instruction, they wouldn't be charged with being a criminal organisation.
You may not be able to separate church and state, but at least try to separate church and religion.
I don't therefore I'm not.
* see Bukhari, which is accepted as authoritative by all major Islamic schools of jurisprudence.
Sustainability and energy independence essay
If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
... most other religions understand that their old stories are mythology, meant to explain truths about the world and human nature on a non-literal level.
And they're usually OK with it if you "expose" these beliefs.
And they're usually fine with it if you want to walk away and no longer believe what they believe.
Scientologists actually believe this Xenu shit.
And if you try and walk away, you're toast.
If you reveal their secrets, you're toast.
All over a religion that was probably started on a dare to see how much money could be made.
Now we get to see if they can take on an entire government.
Game on!
You don't go to hell for posting stuff, you go to hell for postings that disagree with mine!
Standard disclaimer: Yes, I firmly believe God has a sense of humor, at least I firmly hope so.
Back in my day when we chiseled our bits into stone and sent them by mule train from village to village...
You spelt "gang" or "group of confidence tricksters" incorrectly here.
Yes but I was more questioning the mentality that allows you to classify former friends and family (as the first Muslims would have had plenty of contact with non-Muslims especially in their close circle) as filthy beasts. Plus looking down on people is not as effective at conversion as it sounds :).
Control is an illusion, order our comforting lie. From chaos, through chaos, into chaos we fly
Come on mods. This was obviously meant to be funny, not flamebait. I think it's hilarious.
Scientology simply fails to point out the significant and obvious correlation between the increase in global warming and the decline of the overall pirate population. When will we take notice of the real problem here!?
1. Write up some really outlandish fiction ...
2. Promote it as a religion
3.
4. Profit!
Works every single time... not just for Scientology.
thegodmovie.com - watch it
...the scientologists are going to get you for hosting all these blasphemous comments.
how come all their famous members are half-witted artists. why no notable nobel prize winners. you would think some physics guys would appreciate having science fiction for a religion.
Who really cares about a bunch of nutjobs who take science fiction seriously? The rank-and-file $cientology adhereant isn't any different than a Trekkie or an H.P. Lovecraft cultist. This is the same sort of life-challenged whacko that stays up all night listening to Art Bell and George Norrie.
Scruting the inscrutable for over 50 years.
Sweet, now he can get back to work on the Muppets.
Where does the school board find them and why do they keep sending them to ME?
Scientology is NOT officially recognized as a religion. Nor is it recognized as not being a religion. Any fool can start cult and claim tax exemption status. They get no special status beyond that. The 1st Amendment of the Constitution doesn't allow the government to take a stance except in very limited situations.
-- Will program for bandwidth
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
The Scientologists have claimed eight million members for over a decade. Now ten?
Not true, as in a lie. They count EVERYone who ever walked into a storefront vacuum cleaner as a member. We really need to stop and challenge this UFO cult when they can't even be honest about the rolls. I am always incensed when a reporter accepts the multimillion member organization as a given, when the organization itself is the only source. Census data does not bear out their claims. And since most Hubbardites are US based, their given number means that they claim to have on average 200,000 members in every state in the union. Uh uh, not true.
Though an argument could be made otherwise (crusades, inquisition, etc.), for the most part (IMO) religion has benefited mankind as a whole.
The main points (in major summation) to most religions are: Be nice, and worship X deity. Only the former really matters.
I like the way Douglas Adams puts it: And then, one Thursday, nearly two thousand years after one man had been nailed to a tree for saying how great it would be to be nice to people for a change, one girl sitting on her own in a small cafe in Rickmansworth suddenly realized what it was that had been going wrong all this time, and she finally knew how the world could be made a good and happy place. This time it was right, it would work, and no one would have to get nailed to anything. Though I don't agree with any given religion's beliefs, I do agree that being nice to yourself and others is a good thing. If a religion says that it does such and practices doing so, I'm cool with that religion.
FTA: Scientology has 10 million members
t ml#Scientology
Looks like Scientology's media goons have gotten to this article- adherents.com quotes it as probably having fewer than 750,000 active members.
http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.h
The GP was referring to a quote attributed to Josef Stalin. I can't believe no one picked up on it.
Find environmentally and socially responsible products on http://buy-right.net
Hmm...
If atheists form organized groups, publish books about atheism, and fight (at least verbally) religious groups, does that make them a religion? If they strongly believe there is no god, that is a theological position--a religious belief.
Maybe AA (no, not the other one) should apply for tax breaks as an official religion.
Well, why not? They're no more whacky than certain other groups who have been granted official religious status.
Find environmentally and socially responsible products on http://buy-right.net
Christian scripture has a very simple touchstone for recognizing dangerous religious leaders. Matthew 7:15-16 says "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?"
In other words, what results emerge from their teachings? Are their followers ennobled, or are they terrorized? Are they good neighbors, or do they try to take over the neighborhood?
The American Family Association had a longer checklist with warning signs like unaccountable leadership, feelings of elitism, attempts to cut members's ties with family and friends, and rationalization of unethical conduct toward outsiders.
Because one of the tenets of this cult is to infiltrate federal governments throughout the world to increase the power and influence of the cult. They also do a host of personal intimidation tactics to critics and former members of the cult.
I'm not saying they should get the attention of law enforcement groups because they're a cult. But I am saying that when a cult acts like a criminal organization, they should not be ignored just because they are a cult.
That's not the quote. The quote is more along the lines of "the lowest animals in god's sight are unbelievers" (ie: those that do not believe in God). Not much different than, say,
"In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:" (2 Th.1:8)
The Skeptic's Annotated Bible has a pretty nice laundry list of all the horrible things in the Bible (and the Quran and the book of Mormon too, by the way). The bottom line is that these books were all written by a bunch of angry people living in the desert (christ, if I lived in the Middle East I'd be pissed too), and people should pick and choose the bits of them that don't suck.
The real problem is that the Muslims actually believe all the crap in the Quran, while most Christians these days only pay lip service to the crap in the Bible.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Hinduism is the only religion in the world that intrinsically still preaches and promotes Racism aka Casteism. Hindu parents covertly train their children to coerce other caste children.
Slashdot = Sarcasm
..And post #20469253 has just put the same material up again. Good.
Let me preface this by saying that I have no desire to defend Islam, as I find it as ridiculous as any of the big-three organized religions. My interest is only in defending Muslims.
What I'm trying to get at is that saying "Islam tries to get you killed for disagreeing" muddies the actual situation, and creates resentment among moderate Muslims. There is no "Church of Islam", with the power to speak for all Muslims, which is issuing fatwas saying that certain people should be killed. There are certain elements within Islam that take these sorts of actions, and they are more or less common depending on the country and the demographics. I'll use Bangladesh as an example, since I'm familiar with it (my parents were born there). In Bangladesh, Islamic law has no official authority*. The legal code is based on English common law, not Sharia law. Indeed, in 2001, the High Court declared all fatwas to be illegal, because village clerics were abusing them. So when you lump Bengalis in there with Iranians in some sort of non-existent "Islamic" monolith, don't be surprised if people react negatively.
*) That is not to say that pseudo-Islamic ideas aren't used by some people to wield power over others. In rural areas, clerics (conveniently with no religious training whatsoever) will use fatwas to, for example, order the beating of women that challenge social norms. However, I think the "Islam" angle of such happenings is overstated. There is nothing Islamic about beating women. At a technical level, the Quran gives women many basic rights that women in Europe did not get until well over a thousand years later. The problem in these situations is not really Islam, but the fact that poor, uneducated villagers just do stupid things. To put it into perspective, consider the whole Michael Vick dogfighting thing. People who defend him note that he didn't know better, because this sort of violent, inhuman "sport" was part of his "[redneck] southern culture". Well, I grew up in the south, and have seen enough of it to believe this, at least for some pockets of the region. Now, imagine your most dumbest, most back-water Virginia or Georgia redneck, time-wrap him back a hundred years, reduce his level of education and income by an order of magnitude, and you have the sort of dumb Bengali villager that is willing to whip a women because some mufti told him to. Do you honestly believe you even need to bring Islam into the discussion to explain the behavior?
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
The quote is incorrect. It refers to unbelievers (those that do not believe in God), not to non-Muslims. At the time when Islam was spreading, it largely had contact with Christianity and Judaism, and it is not particularly antagonistic to these religions. Yes, Muslims believe that Christians will burn in hell and be tortured for eternity, but then again, the opposite is true as well.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
God and Religion are Distinct.
Slashdot = Sarcasm
For some balance here, here is how the NET Bible notes put it:
The Hebrew term ymr appears to be an alternate spelling of ymar ("wild oxen"; see BDB 910).
English has changed a good bit since the KJV was published, and numerous words today have entirely different meanings than they did in 1611.
Divine Retribution, anyone ?
In Belgium i believe they technically could sue the pope, or the prime minister of the UK
...
or even g.w.b if they would want to.
As i recall in 1993 they've passed the 'genocide' law
This controversial law makes it possible to prosecute dictators and other offenders of human rights.
Imho every religion is not respecting the human rights, some more extreme then others
Are they Tom Cruise Missiles?
Homonyms are fun!
You're driving your car, but they're riding their bikes there.
In Belgium, even the biggest political opposition party has been prosecuted since years. The prime minister said literally: I will search the whole country to find a courtyard that wants to outlaw them. One member of parliament got a huge fine 'because he had a podcast'. It's a horrible repressive country to live in.
after just reading a litle bit of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Scientology
i noticed something funny look:
"In 1979 Hubbard's wife, Mary Sue Hubbard, along with ten other highly placed Scientology executives were convicted in United States federal court regarding Operation Snow White, and served time in an American federal prison. Operation Snow White involved infiltration, wiretapping and theft of documents in government offices, most notably those of the United States Internal Revenue Service."
well, United States Internal Revenue Service right? got that? they stole stuff...
then read on:
"the Federal Labor Court of Germany commented that Scientology uses "inhuman and totalitarian practice"..."in France a parliamentary report classified Scientology as a dangerous cult."..."In the United Kingdom and Canada the organization is not regarded as meeting the legal standards for being considered a bona fide religion or charity."
now the wiki article talks about how france canada and other countries think they are dangerous right...nothing much, but read this:
In 1993, however, the United States Internal Revenue Service recognized Scientology as a "non-profit charitable organization," and gave it the same legal protections and favorable tax treatment extended to other non-profit charitable organizations.
ISNT THE ONES THEY STOLE GOT THEM AS NON-PROFIT TAX-FREE BULLSHIT?
there's really some fishy thg going on here, i dont understand why ppl get into this, its absurd...more and more i get to thk usa/world is so full or morons, no wonder, smart ass fuck the planet, assholes give away money, and inteligent ppl watch it thru the web and does nothing right?
there is only one way to illumination, GOD, ALLAH whatever, and its by the practice of MEDITATION, looking at your inner self, its hard it will take years, it wont be psycho esoteric and visions and shit, it will be a very natural and simple feeling of belonging and peace, you dont need nothing else, just a _quiet_ room
byebye
sorry for eventual bad english, not my mother language
Is it me or is the % of anonymous posts in this one much higher than usual? Must tell you something about how most people perceive Scientology.
I want a list of atrocities done in your name - Recoil
He should travel to Belgium or even anywhere in Europe and claim asylum.
someone who "owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion,
http://www.ecre.org/factfile/facts.shtml#6
Be wary when an organisation calls itself religious or anything similar. They may just be a club of individuals with common interests unrelated to religion and use the religion label as a means to not pay taxes, collect donations, and mask their real activities. For example, a very rich person may wish to network with other rich people and influence the society in ways that are good for them. If they write down some fiction and found a religion based on it, they can mask their activities quite easily. In many religious organisations, there are some members who know its true goals and form the inner circle, and lots of members who are in the external circle and think that the organisation is truly religious. The same holds true for other kinds of organisations, eg philosophical, spiritual, or even hobbyist and charity organisations. In fact any organisation, even a government or official religion, can be designed in such a way to hide into itself an inner circle of individuals who use it for their own purposes. Some possible secret purposes of these inner clubs may be the creation or control of more wealth, the control of sensitive industries, political goals, nationalistic goals, terrorism, espionage, and other. A terrorist may found a charitable organisation to collect money for buying firearms, while the donors think the money will go to the poor. A politician may found a golf club while in fact it is used as a means to organise a coup-d-etat. Secret inner circles may even form in already existing organisations that were founded for legitimate purposes; for example, a civil rights organisation may be true to its charter and be a good destination for your donations until agents from an enemy entity (eg a government) infiltrate in it and create a secret circle with not so ethical purposes. If an organisation counts in its members people who have positions in industry, government, or are very rich or famous, chances are that there is something about their organisation that they don't want you to know. Not that I'm suggesting that every secret inner circle has unethical goals, or that I have any specific organisation in mind. It is just a possibility that you have to think about whenever you are asked to join a group or donate some money. Just let your mind be open and think about anything you may consider suspicious or strange in an organisation.
the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster
davecb5620@gmail.com
In France, the legal papers were stolen from the tribunal preventing the trial, and *drum roll*, it happened TWO TIMES!!
Even once, it is inexcusable (security in the tribunals in France is laughable) as Scientology had already done such tricks on other countries, but twice in the same country, the mind boggles from the incompetency of:
- the judge for not taking special measure to protect the documents
- the judicial system for not providing safe to store legals documents.
Well, perhaps it should be called the DCMA, then. Then that stupid bit of text can make even less sense.
No tyrant thrives when every subject says no.
Most of the comments in this thread betray a biased and mean-spirited attitude towards Scientology and its founder, Ron Hubbard.
It is very easy to be disrespectful towards someone you have never met or know nothing about.
The truth is that it is hard to know where to begin in trying to sum up Ron Hubbard. He bestrode' the worlds of science and religion, moulding them into a unique synthesis (Diabetics)
How many slashdotters have sold books in the quantity of Ron Hubbard? Since 1954 when he first exploded onto the world stage with his first major best-selling work of philosophy How I Solved the Riddle of the Universe on $5 a Day, he hardly took a break from writing. He write a book every week for the rest of his life - 257,000 of them - each one a complete masterpiece.
But writing books was just a sideline to this extraordinary multi-faceted super-human millionaire. His real love was money and he made more of it than any other religious teacher in the history of the world.
The message he put across to his millions of followers was simple: "Renounce all your material possessions", he said, "and give them to me."
Maybe AA (no, not the other one) should apply for tax breaks as an official religion.
I think that's been done in the past, perhaps not by this particular organization.Certainly, there's the UU church which counts many atheists among their membership.
I grew up Catholic, yet I woke up and don't believe in any religion. Haven't for 20 years. But at least I can see some redeeming qualities in various religions and their tales. I don't find anything redeeming about Scientology.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
The only source of the number leads straight back to the cthurch of Scientology which can provide no meaningful data to support that. It's highly suspect that they claim they can't, because the whole organization is obsessed with "stats" thanks to Hubbard, and every Thurdays at 2pm a report goes uplines of how many people on course, how much money, how many new people signed up, how many Stress Tests, how much money, etc.
Even one of their apologists, Dr. J. Gordon Melton said: Ref: Elaine, Jarvik, Scientology: Church now claims more than 8 million members, 2004-09-18.One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
So, the first OpenBSD fan?
Great minds think alike; fools seldom differ.
I'm sorry to say, but most believes are just plain political frauds for hundreds of years.
For example Church of Scientology, just compare to a tax paradise. Like any other american religion based tax paradise, they all believe in god. But apperently that guy cannt give them money, altough he is in 'their' control.
What I mean by politcal fraud, different believes have the same stories, they use other peoples stories to enrich their stories. You dont believe me ofcourse, but mark my words in about 500 years the coca cola figure on christmas will be declared as a wholy figure. It went the same for the ark of noah and other stories.
Ofcourse you dont believe me just take that on hour watch to http//www.zeitgeistmovie.com/ and then reply and explain to me what you saw at that movie. Would you then still think it all started with a book i doubt you..
But as long as you believe in it, and dont want to look at evidence, it's called a believe as its not the proven truth.
However
They must find it difficult..
Those who have taken authority as the truth
rather than truth as an authority http//www.zeitgeistmovie.com/
I know you're out there. I can feel you now. I know that you're afraid. You're afraid of us. You're afraid of change.
Jesus loves you, Jesus children
Hello children, Jesus loves you of America
Are you hearing, What he's saying?
Are you feeling, What you're praying?
Are you hearing, praying, feeling what you say inside?
You'd better tell, Your story fast...
And if you lie, It will come to pass...
Tell me! Tell me holy
Holy roller, Holy roller
Are you standing
Are you standing, Like a soldier?
Like a soldier?
Waell...
Are you standing for everything you talk about?
Holy roller...
Say! Transcen
Transcendental, Dental meditation
Meditation, Speaks of
Speaks of inner, Inner Preservation
Preservation
Waell...
Transcendental meditation gives you peace of
Peace of mind
You'd better tell, Your story fast...
And if you lie, It will come to pass...
Tell 'em, Don't lie to 'em
Don't tell lies, Tell 'em
Don't lie to 'em"
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
I don't know if it can be called a 'higher plan' unless he was buried on a hill :P
Planet Zebeth - Metroid with a twist
One way Scientology recruits is drug rehabs. It seeks out those in our socity that have problems. Uses some basic logical methods that work weather you are religous, not or crazy scientolgist. They then use that to push there made up stories on these people. Their practices in the rehab are even considered dangerous by the medical community. Since they are staying off drugs this whole time a lot of people buy it and then to make it worse they give them extreamly low paying jobs working for them recruiting more! They don't tell them the really how crazy stories until they are hooked. You don't find out about Xenu(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu) until you have donated majors amounts of cash, some of it going to shock treatment to cleans you! Check out the thing they hook up to you. Its on this page! These people are money grubbing horrible people. They have even built a nuclear hardened facility where they keep there writings. No Joke. If you ever meet one. Ask them how Xenu is doing today. They get pissed. If they are even high enough to know what your talking about. You know the guy that took all these souls and put them in a volcano with nukes.. Yeah that guy.. Whats up with him?
ISNT THE ONES THEY STOLE GOT THEM AS NON-PROFIT TAX-FREE BULLSHIT?
Yes indead it does seem fishy that they broke into the IRS and the IRS still declared them a non-profit, and I'm sure that many of the IRS agents as people hated doing that but if they met the legal requirements than their hands were tied
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
Belgium is much smarter than the USA by far. In fact all of Europe is smarter than the USA. The only reason the USA says the CoS is a "religion" is that during the Operation Snow White caper, the CoS got alot of not-so-nice dope on the IRS when it infiltrated its offices. In order not be found out by the tax paying public, the IRS made a deal with the CoS and there ya have it...instant tax-exemption for being a "religion" . Ps..LRON tacked on the "Religion" bit in order to escape paying taxes. It worked in the USA, didn't it?
DCMA would be Digital Copyright Millennium Act, which doesn't really make an awful lot of sense.
Well, it does if you understand what Mary Bono was pushing for with her copyright reforms ("forever, less a day"). Of course, those didn't make a lot of sense either — just a lot of dollars.
//Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
If the tale of Jonah isn't literally true, what else in the Bible isn't true? Perhaps someone could go through with a yellow highlighter and mark off those parts I should believe, and those parts I can dismiss as mythology.
Thomas Jefferson obliged your request, figuratively speaking; the highlighter hadn't been invented yet. Not as nifty as Goldman's "good parts" version of the Princess Bride (gad, Morgenstern is long winded, even for a native Florinese), but pretty good nonetheless.
//Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
My people have been persecuted since the great purge known as Order 66. I have been pursued halfway across the galaxy by a sinister former Jedi named Darth Vader. Please purchase my manifesto and join the Jedi order, all for the low introductory price of $19.95. As you evolve as a Jedi Knight, I will continue to educate you. This crucial second course is a bargain at $599.99 and the third may require you to get a home equity loan, but you NEED it!) Together, we will defeat Lord Vader and the evil mastermind Darth Sidious, and we shall bring harmony in the Force and peace to the galaxy.
That's my religion. You got something to say? I have an army of lawyers waiting to sue you left and right. And I require tax exempt status. Thank you.
What sort of decent, rational person would withhold judgement against the murderers inside his own religion while resenting outsiders for raising the violence and oppression as an issue? That's blatant bigotry. Where's the internal debate in Islam where these things are being rejected? You're debasing the very concept of moderation by applying it to such people.
What you've posted here looks a lot like taqiyya. Maybe you're doing it deliberately or maybe you've not understood the sort of deceit advanced for the sake of Islam, but people are getting wise to it. I'm an infidel, but it looks like I know Islam better than you do:Koran 4:34, The Women:Now you'll accuse me of "creating resentment". This resentment needs to be aimed where it belongs, at the 7th-century tyrant and murderer who created this mess and the people who insist that his every word and action be revered and emulated to this very day (because he is "the perfect man" and "an excellent example of conduct").
Islam has a lot of prominent defectors, including Walid Shoebat and Ibn Warraq. There appears to be a very small group of people who reject the intolerant, sexist, oppressive and inhuman elements of Islam and yet still desire to call themselves Muslims. I wish them luck, in staying alive if nothing else. But their success can only be measured in the next generation, to see if the tolerance continues and grows or if the children return to scripture and become jihadis.That's not the question. The question is whether you can get anyone, from that dumb Bengali villager up to university-educated Saudis, to reject what the Koran explicitly sanctions.
Like Saudis keeping slaves in the USA. They call this a "cultural thing", as if this excuses it. Do you? Are you like al-Turki's defense and put this prosecution down to "islamophobia"?
It's time to hold Muslims morally accountable for the crimes they abet by defending the totalitarian system of Islam.
Sustainability and energy independence essay
With a strong-arm over the town he ran like a fiefdom.
Except that Hubbard lived in exile, isolated aboard a yacht and not killed, there are many parralells of someone defrauding the gullible with a false religion to personal advantage.
Smith's followers have tried for more than 150 years to cover up his origin in the New England Spiritualist/Seance movement.
Real religion I have no quibble with. "False gold exists, only because real gold can be found".
CoS and LDS are pseudo-religions, who's origins are related more closely to the material gold of coins, than the spiritual gold of inner experience and vision.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
The people you need to tell this to are the terrorists, Muslim supremacists, and other threats to the life, liberty and safety of non-Muslims. Ultimately, Islam is not what's in the books, it's what's practiced. I've heard of moderates being attacked, but I've never heard of a terrorist being declared apostate and anything coming of it. I've never heard of an imam being declared apostate for preaching death to infidels.
I do see Muslim solidarity whenever one of their own is criticized for such statements or acts. You're doing it.
If you believe what you say, let's see you go to Gaza and convince Hamas that they're wrong to kill Jews. Let me know how it goes.
Sustainability and energy independence essay
I am still confused here. I have not seen any attributed references that put him deeply involved with the Spiritualists. And even the few that do exist, from undisputably anti-mormon sources, don't try to claim contact before he had his vision. The thing that puzzles me, is why did all the major churches of the day attack a 14 year old boy. Why was he that important? You say gold? Where was it. He never lived lavishly. His family didn't either. He was constantly threatened and chased. If it was just a con job as you say, it wasn't real successful. He could have made much more money playing poker or becoming a very eloquent preacher of one of the established churches and not had anyone against him. Your position doesn't make sense. What hold did he have over Carthage. He had no church there. He only preached there 2-3 times. He had no businesses there. Actually, it is an established fact that most of the members of that mob were from out of town. When the sheriff gave his report, he described the killers as "a drunken mob". I'm not sure where you studied your religious facts, but it would do you good to search some more. Bill
it's really simple... Scientology doesn't involve the supernatural. There is no creation story. It starts with emperor xenu, who might not even have been the first emperor. Thetans and everything else are represented in scientific terms, not as supernatural but as natural. Xenu was an emperor of the people and he used space jumbo jets and atom bombs, technology and not the supernatural. Technology is used to detect and remove the body thetans.
My primary assertion is that humans tend to fall into this trap of thinking every other group is full of idiots but their group is somehow different.
It is true that faulting any group in it's entirety base on a few people, or and basis of them not being part of "your" group is bad platform to stand on. I do however think you miss the underline basis that the parent is doting. Which is that atheism is not a group in the same sense that religions are. For starters, religions are usually based on what they believe, not what they don't believe. Try defining Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc, by describing what they don't believe in. You almost inevitably will not come to an accurate description of any group without describing what that group does believe in. Atheism is IMO a poorly misused term for simply stating they don't believe in the "something" known as god. There is no set of beliefs that can be attached to atheist that can make it a standard group. No more so then saying all people who "don't believe corvettes are fast" are a group similar to a religion.
For example, saying "Republicans are stupid party", is dissimilar to saying "people who don't believe apples are the best fruit are stupid". Obviously one should be more constructive in their dislikes and not going around hating "republicans" or "apple haters"; but the grouping is very different and should not be assumed to be the same.
More elaboration could be told, but in short (heh), comments directed at "atheists" is non-descriptive of similar people, like comments directed at religions. I will reiterate that I am not condoning generalizing insults on a particular group, just stating that you correlation to his statement was a bit off.
"I only know 2 things: The love for me, and the fear of me."
Don't bother arguing with these people - Mormons are nearly on a par with Zionists as being intellectually dishonest. The only difference is that Mormons tend to argue more subtly, while Zionists act like thugs.
I've seen Mormons arguing over at Talking Points Memo - they all sound alike. And their arguments all boil down to the same thing: cover up their flaws, argue their virtues and argue that their religion is no different than others (which from my standpoint as an atheist is probably true - it's all bullshit - the only different is the degree of fanaticism.)
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
Wars of independence can be expensive, and it's not surprising that there was a high toll in a situation like this where a much weaker power was opposing a much stronger one.
That said, there are various opinions within Bangladesh on the matter of independence. Many educated Bengalis will tell you that the separation of Pakistan from India was not a particularly good idea. At the same time, given the continued militarization and renewed Islamization of Pakistan, I think you'll find increasingly fewer educated people who will say the separation of Bangladesh from Pakistan was not a good idea.
There is of course, a vast number of people who don't think the secularization of Bangladesh was a good idea, and have, since the inception of the country, been trying to turn back the clock. Though, these views are largely representative of the poor, uneducated masses of the country, and I'll be blunt in saying that their opinion really doesn't matter. You'll find that most intellectuals in the country are strongly in favor of the measures that have been imposed by the government over the last few years to crack down on radical Islam.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Given my comment, I think the modification of your quote and my intent in doing it was obvious, so I'll politely disregard your request.
Furthermore, the word "cult" has a widely agreed upon, and therefore quite useful, meaning when applied to a group like Scientology. Here is the definition that applies in this context:
cult
A relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister: a network of Satan-worshiping cults.
Contrary to your claim, most any two people do, in fact, mean the same thing when using the word "cult". They may disagree on the group(s) to which it applies, but they intend to label the target of that word with the same or very similar negative connotations. By definition, it does not simply refer to a "small religion", and I vehemently object to the term "religion" being used to describe scientology as there is a clear, observable distinction between groups commonly accepted as religions and scientology. The most obvious differentiator being the requirement by scientology of payment for access to their "secret knowledge".
The word "cult" may eventually become so overloaded that it will indeed lose its usefulness, but I don't believe we've reached that point yet.
I think you've hit the nail on the head, Scientology isn't a religion, at least not by any reasonable definition I've ever seen. Most religions either have a supernatural being/s or have one or more 30-40 yr old males who've become enlightened while alone and almost dead from thirst and starvation or both.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
I've heard from an imam that the Muslim conception of "Hell" is not eternal -- it more resembles the Christian idea of "Purgatory" (for those Christians that believe in Purgatory). But I don't know whether this is orthodoxy.
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One shouldn't be so touchy about strawmen when being so quick to set one up yourself.
Neither theism nor atheism are religions by themselves. A comprehensive belief system may even be atheist and a religion if it requires faith in something that cannot measured or falsified (Buddhism, New Age-ism and such).
What are your qualifications for debating Islamic jurisprudence, especially the implied claim that Muslims give no weight to the hadith?
Scientology was begun as a fraud, and hasn't added any science to justify its name. If you took away its fraudulent tactics and its criminal means of sustaining itself against its critics, it would cease to exist. The light of full disclosure would destroy it utterly. What sort of chance does it deserve? If the RCC can be held liable for allowing priests to molest children, shouldn't Scientology be held to account also?
Sustainability and energy independence essay
count to three while not counting to two and four at the same time?
This space is intentionally staring blankly at you
I have never received any spam with copyright notice except for the spam I regularly receive mentioning L. Ron Hubbard as copyright holder and claiming they are not affiliated and only have permission to distribute from the copyright holder.
But then perhaps I'm lucky. Do others regularly receive spam promoting other religions?
> Smith was killed for trying to censor his critics with a strong-arm over the town he ran like a fiefdom
An unfounded allegation.
> Smith's followers have tried for more than 150 years to cover up his origin in the New England Spiritualist/Seance movement.
And another!
> CoS and LDS are pseudo-religions, who's origins are related more closely to the material gold of coins, than the spiritual gold of inner experience and vision.
The trifecta! You win!
It is the 21st century and the time for Klax has passed.