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Australia Cracked US Combat Aircraft Codes
SpamSlapper writes "Former defense minister Kim Beazley has told how Australia cracked top-secret American combat aircraft codes in the 1980s to enable the shooting down of enemy aircraft. The radar on Australia's US-made Hornets could not identify most potentially hostile aircraft in the region — they were set up for European threats — but despite many requests, the codes were not provided, so 'In the end we spied on them and we extracted the codes ourselves.' The Americans knew what the Australians were doing and were intrigued by the progress they made."
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"Austria" is a friendly OPEC member.
Rich And Stupid is not so bad as Working For Rich And Stupid.
Whoever arranged the procurement of those aircraft in the first place wasn't terribly smart. Who would spend Millions of AU$'s on something that in effect doesn't work, and not just some feature is missing, but the primary use of the thing is impaired, oh and the supplier wont help. As for cracking the codes, when can we expect the Australians to release the cracks? I hate the fact I cant use the F18 I bought on Ebay to shoot down Asia Pacific Rim based Aircraft..
Former defense minister. It's easy to be forgotten if you're too quiet.
Back on topic, this is what you got for not using open source aircrafts.
Virtual Betting on Facebook for non-geeks.
It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
Be yourself no matter what they say
The Americans kept saying they'd provide the codes, but never did. Pictures tall kid dangling candy over another kids head. "Here you go" kid jumps... "Sucker..." "Here you go!" kid jumps again... "Sucker..."
Infiltrated dot Net
It won't apply in Australian jurisdiction. Though I would like to see how well DMCA fares if the US ends up unable to export weapons systems due to customers going to suppliers who support their products and do not engage in strong-arm legislative programs to prevent such things.
More cool spy stories, please! I once managed to figure out the code to a locked briefcase, bought second hand. That small feat was a thrill. I would have loved being part of this! Outsmarting somone is enormously satisfying.
Swedish plasma phys. PhD student; MSc EE; knows maths, programming, electronics; finance interest; seeks opportunities
does the DMCA apply retroactively? If so, then Australia can never step foot in the US again.
Well, keep in mind that there was a huge Aussie fad in America in the mid-late 80's. We were ALL surprised at how much progress they made at the time. If it hadn't been for the unfortunate "Yahoo Serious" setback in 1988, who knows what they could have ultimately done.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
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So did they managed to crack the codes or did they spy on the US and somehow obtain the codes? I read TFA and still can't figure out which.
I expect it was they cracked the codes as seeing as "Americans knew what the Australians were doing and were intrigued by the progress they made.". I don't imagine the seppos would feel "intrigued" about being spied on.
"Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns -- the ones we don't know we don't know."
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
..Americans can't tell one country from another.. Austria is quite a walk up from Australia. Makes you wonder how you decide which country to attack next.
To Terminate, or not to Terminate, that's the question - SCSIROB
'In the end we spied on them and we extracted the codes ourselves.'
This is a massive violation of human rights. The US DOD has many Australians in it, who may have therefore been spied on by the Australian government without a warrant. Therefore Australia is a police state.
"Oh look at them, they're trying to crack our codes..."
"Oh look, they're actually succeeding. How intriguing!"
"Hey, wait a sec, they're pointing those missiles at use. I continue to be intrigued!"
because at the time, all Australian aircraft fuel was under seige by Lord Humongous in the desert, and Crocodile Dundee was MIA on a walkabout
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
This reminds me of news reports about the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. It's meant to replace the F-16 and also be available for export to allied nations starting with the UK. Unfortunately for the potential buyers, the US government wasn't offering to share all the technical details and source code that our allies would need to fully operate and maintain the aircraft. With a quick Google search I just found this article from last year saying the US and UK came to an agreement, don't know what's happened since then. I vaguely remember the Royal Air Force and Navy threatened to cancel their orders and just buy Eurofighter Typhoons instead.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/f35-jsf-program-us-uk-reach-technology-transfer-agreement-02495/Quantum mechanics: the dreams that stuff is made of.
I actually RTFA and there is not information on how the Australians cracked the codes, how they spied on the Americans or how the Americans knew about this and why it was so intriguing.
It was to answer those questions that I actually read TFA, so tell me, what use is TFA without the answer to those questions?
Though this information has only been released 20 years later, you can bet that any country buying export aircraft from another is going to have their people make adjustments to both the airframe and electronics (including software) to suit their pupose. No one is going to pay a barrel of money for aircraft and not adapt them for their needs. They are also not going to say what they did (for a long while) as that info will no doubt be classified. Ditto the originating country's aircraft will have features that are not exported for the same reasons.
So did they managed to crack the codes or did they spy on the US and somehow obtain the codes? I read TFA and still can't figure out which.
My guess is they tried the same code as they had on their luggage and by an amazing coincidence it worked.
That's the most likely meaning of the "codes". Not encryption methods at all.
http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/13.66.html#subj1
Best go to the MIT site then and pick up Matt Blaize's document about picking locks.
:-).
:-).
Just one word of warning: a Samsonite briefcase with 4 digit digital lock has actually MORE than 10000 different combinations, the true number of possible combinations of that lock is 11111, which is why a bunch of hackers on a hacker weekend spend the whole weekend trying to open it and didn't succeed (very evil grin) - I hadn't corrected their assumption that it had 10000 combinations
Not that you need that long - it has a far more basic vulnerability in the electronics by which you can open it in under 10 seconds
Insert
If you're cracking top secret defense systems codes, I don't know if it's the DMCA that I'd be terribly worried about. Also, this happened in the 80s (DMCA was 1996) and it occurred in Australia.
People give Rummy a lot of grief for this passage. However, it not only parses as grammatically correct, but also displays a sound and fairly sophisticated understanding of epistemology.
i don't know, but i know you might know what we know we don't know we don't know is known as ;-)
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
I'm probably going out on a limb here but I have a suspicion that it is a bit more complex than that.
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
I suspect this is not related at all to cryptography but "code" here reffers to the software inside the radar signal processor. What they likely had to do was reverse engineer it because they could not get the source code.
They were THAT CLOSE to being helpless against an attack by New Zealand. No more Olivia Newton John, Crocadile Dundee, Men at Work...
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
"That's the most likely meaning of the "codes". Not encryption methods at all."
No, I think the most likely meaning of "code" is "source code". The software that runs inside the radar.
I'd say you owe us at least a couple slabs of VBs!
Caller: These kids don't respect veterans, we fought for your freedom! When I came back from the Australian-American War, I didn't get a heroes welcome... I didn't get a pack on the back from my friends and neighbors saying 'thanks for fighting for our freedom James!' After years of fighting in the trenches, I come back here and everyone's watching TV!
Lazlow: Now, can you tell me what this Australian-American war was... I never really heard of it!
Caller: God, not another one! Have you read a history book lately son? The Australian-American war the was the biggest war since the big one! I tell ya, I didn't do two tours and take boomerang shrapnel in my head to come back here and have a bunch of hippies deny our history! Those Aussies are ruthless! They even wired kangaroos with explosives... come hopping in the camp and knock out ten guys!
If you can figure out the rules of cricket, then aircraft codes are trivial.
You think that $25 billion a year will bankrupt the US??? Hillary is running for president, and one of the ways that she is selling herself is by spending over $200 billion on health care. Better tell Hillary that she plans on bankrupting us at least 8 times over!
And that assumes that all $25 billion will be new spending, as opposed to offsetting it by reducing operations at other area bases.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
They are talking about IFF codes, Interrogator, Friend or Foe, most call it the "Transponder", basically when the shit hits the fan, you get the commercial traffic out of the area, then anything that isn't a known friend is considered a possible foe. The codes to ID friends are changed daily, the codes for commercial are fixed and therefore spoofable. It's not like the codes are that complicated, were talking 80186 or 80286 class computers.
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I was at the Paris Air Show a few years ago. One company had on display a MIG cockpit. They had retrofitted it with modern avionics.
The problem was that the display model, that was at the show, was running Windows and had BSODed. I wonder how many they sold...
I suspect Australia(disclaimer Im Australian) thought that as the US and Australia are very close allies the USAF might give us the ability to use the aircraft we purchased.
:-)
I see your problem. The F/A-18 is not a US Air Force aircraft, it is a US Navy aircraft. You went knocking on the wrong door.
and is therefore funny
you are mistaking the motivations for people finding those words humorous
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
rtfa, they did this 20 years ago
ROMANES EUNT DOMUS
No, I think the most likely meaning of "code" is "source code". The software that runs inside the radar.
No, you are engaging in a geek bias. Politicians would refer to source code as programming, code almost certainly refers to cryptographic data. I expect that we are talking about cryptographic keys needed to decode the IFF (Identification Friend or Foe) signals of combat aircraft.
Well, they distinctly mentioned 'radar' several times, and Mode 4 IFF has absolutely nothing to do with the radar system. They could be talking about any number of things - especially if the US jets were fielding ECM pods.
These days, our deployed craft generally fly with NATO codes. I don't know if it was the same back then, but if it was, it would have been pretty presumptuous of the USA to simply hand over the codes.
And the codes aren't fixed for commercial aircraft. They don't have Mode 4 at all. They have the other modes of operation, though: 1, 2, 3, and C. They're either set manually in the cockpit or automatically generated (Mode C simply transmits the craft's altitude). The ones set by flight crew are almost always assigned by air traffic control.
Specialization is for insects. -Heinlein
Not only is the Isle of Man both man and an island (take that John Donne) but it also has three feet on its flag (a Triskelion) so presumably at any point in time it can set foot in one more country than even the most nimble of humans (take that OP).
When Argumentum ad Hominem falls short, try Argumentum ad Matrem
I find it incredible that anyone would consider purchasing defense equipment from the USA after this.
When you look at modern air combat and notice how those equipped with US aircraft tend to stay in the air and their opponents equipped with Russian/French/etc aircraft(*) tend to go down in balls of flame I think you will not find it so incredible.
(*) While pilot training is more important than the aircraft, those purchasing US aircraft tend to get pretty good training as well. The US has a track record of training both friends and future enemies pretty well. While Russia has expert pilots, Russia tends not to train others to their level. They are a little more paranoid for some reason, might be the one or two invasions per century.
Usually there a code that causes any transponders to respond generically for air-traffic control, in military aircraft this is over-rideable so the transponder only responds to certain queries and the response differs depending on the querry code, so by knowing the "secret" code you can tell if the response is correct. The secret code is normally changed regularly.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
I doubt it, for the aircraft to be available in the 80's, considerable development would have happened in the 70's and the military computers I seen in the 70's consisted of wire-wrapped nand chips for a CPU and ferrite core memory; not really suitable for use in fighter aircraft, Hell I think the Patriot Missile is powered by a 80186 cpu.
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It was another section that actually worked on the IFF for our system, but I assumed when somebody at that level sees an antenna rotating, it's always a "radar"
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Oops. Posted that anon. Here I am.
Apart from all the US-on-ally friendly fire incidents, you have a point. The thing that's most likely to get a US aircraft out of the sky is a court martial.
In the late 1990s, military contractors (I forget which one) supplied the source code to the F16 to Saudi Arabia, which had purchased around 150 of them. This was a minor scandal at the time, but the government's position was essentially, 'Aw, what's the worst that could happen?'
So while pilot training may by more important than the aircraft, sometimes its the munitions that matter most of all.
This space intentionally left blank.
How about a neo-fascist pro-Bush microhegemony sitting like a boil on the southern edge of the Pacific Rim? Gee, who could think like that, you may well wonder. Uhh... Indonesia? Singapore? New Zealand? Sri Lanka? How about the heavy hitters, like say... India? Fast forward ten years, beyond the scenarios where pacifist Japan has kicked the U.S. off Okinawa, and resurgent Edo, finally fed up with 120 Hz alternating U.S. neglect and micromanagement, suddenly re-aligns with China. Da mime boggles. Point being, if OZ can crack U.S. flight codes, anybody can, especially the Japanese.
``Tension, apprehension & dissension have begun!'' - Duffy Wyg&, in Alfred Bester's _The Demolished Man_
Oh, so it's like Calvinball!
http://www.simplych.com/cb_rules.htm
The APG-65 radar actually has several digital computers inside of it. The radar was capable of automatic target tracking and threat assesment. I remember that the track while scan feature was a big deal. I worked at Huges Aircraft back then and yes they had many software enginerrs emplyed back then. I was one of hundreds although I worked on radars both befor and after this timeframe. You might remember the lack of power in a typical 8-bit micro in those days, but you are assuming they used a microprocessor. The mil-std-1750 was the "standard" airborne computer of the day. It was a 16-bit machine about the size of a shoe box.
Nah mate,
I'm pretty sure they were talking about footy codes. We noticed Americans were tossing the footy instead of punching it, and had to spy on them to figure out what this new code was. It was code named "GridIron" apparently.
Codes for what? Resetting the "Check Engine" light?
1. Pull stick all the way pack.
2. RUDDER RIGHT.
3. Toggle FIRE SELECT to "ON, then "OFF"
4. Release rudder.
5. Roll stick to LEFT for 10 seconds.
6. When "OIL TEMP" indicator light begins to flash, release stick.
7. RUDDER LEFT while simultaneously rolling stick to RIGHT.
8. "OIL TEMP" should then stop flashing, and the "HYD PRESSURE" indicator lamp should start to flash, and the console should beep 15 times.
9. After beeping, toggle "ILS" to ON, while releasing stick and reversing rudder.
10. Beeping will bcome steady tone. Push throttle forward, push stick forward, toggle "FIRE SELECT" to ON.
11. Pull throttle back, toggle "LANDING LIGHTS" to ON.
12. Sounding tone will stop.
13. After tone stops, toggle "LANDING LIGHTS" to OFF, release stick, zero rudder.
14. Three beeps should sound. "HYD PRESSURE" lamp should stop flashing. Toggle "ILS" to OFF.
15. After beeps stop, zero throttle, toggle "FIRE SELECT" to OFF.
16. "CHECK ENGINE" indicator lamp is now reset.
17. See BASE COMMANDER for your cookie.
Knowing Google's lust for data collection, the Soviet Union is still alive and well inside the psyche of Sergey Brin....
The comments were made during his retirement speech to parliament where recounted some of the more interesting things that had happened in his time (and generally waffled).
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
WOW that was hugely advanced at the time, I remember jumping from working on a RCA CPU that was nand chips wire-wrapped together by day to building an RCA 1802 in the barracks in the evening.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
Not only is he former defense minister, he just quit politics... gotta go out with a bang, in "The Bomber's" (his nickname) case it's kind of befitting.
Kim has resigned from politics so probably doesn't give a shit.
Still, it does illustrate how the US treats its so called allies.
No doubt the higher levels of bureaucracy said "NO! Don't give it to them", and the low level folks actually watching this occur during a training mission didn't care; knowing they should be given the damn stuff in the first place. That's my guess.
- Mike
Once you've lost your temper, you've lost the argument - Me
... as Ozzie doesn't sound like he is in the middle of a two week druge binge, either. Two weeks isn't a binge for him, that is more of a "light appetizer before the main course".
Help poke pirates in the eyepatch, arr.
On news that ozzies have cracked our codes, sales of veggimite tripled.
still, that guy should ask for a raise dontcha think?
Mo
Given here.
They will never know the simple pleasure of a monkey knife fight
Actually that has nothing to do with US-centric stupidity. I think the World Series was named after a newspaper called the World.
Secondly, don't you think it's fascinating that one of the US's closest allies felt like it had to resort to spying/hacking to decripple US-purchased military hardware?
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)