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Stallman Attacked by Ninjas
vivIsel writes "When RMS took the stage to address the Yale Political Union, Yale's venerable parliamentary debate society, it was already an unusual speech: instead of the jacket and tie customary there, he sported a T shirt, and no shoes. But then he was attacked by ninjas. Apparently some students took it into their head to duplicate an XKCD webcomic before a live audience — luckily, though, Stallman didn't resort to violence. Instead, he delivered an excellent speech about DRM."
Like it or not, that's just one of the man's idiosyncracies. I think he just likes to project the "dirty commie hippie" aura wherever he goes.
I may make you feel, but I can't make you think.
This is perhaps the greatest thing anyone has ever done, ever. Though it would've been better if they'd come down from the ceiling.
If Richard Stallman wants everything to be free, maybe he should create a whole bunch of decent stuff and give it away. Without license. Without license. Without license.
But where were the pirates? Clearly someone has to defend RMS against the ninjas...
09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
+2 Troll is Slashdot's way of saying groupthink is confused
Uh, are t-shirts considered "dirty", "commie", or "hippie"? Whatever.
... I can never figure out the singular fascination that people have for what fibers other people wrap around their bodies. It gives small minds something to gossip about, and provides endless simple fun in tweaking them."
John Gilmore has been known to wear interesting clothing, too, but I don't think anybody would claim he's any of the above.
Q: "Do people have a hard time paying attention when you are not in a suit and tie?"
JG: "... At an international conference, I would not expect cultured people to stare at unfamiliar costumes.
Apparently no one told web designers at Yale how to resize photos so they don't have to use a full size, 1.6 Meg picture that's scaled down in the HTML.
My grandmother used anecdotal evidence all the time, and she lived to be 120 years old.
Too bad he doesn't care about his cause enough to project an aura of professionalism and courtesy. There are certain expectations when you're a GUEST speaker in a professional setting, an academic setting.
If you build it, nerds will come. Soylentnews.org
I've always thought of the GPL as an overlay network... sort of a "we don't like having any license at all, so we'll pretend there's no need for it if you do too". If Stallman wasn't worried about other people taking his decent stuff and doing what he thinks are wrong things with it, I'm sure he wouldn't need copyleft in the first place.
Then again, I've charitably misinterpreted the man before. *shrug*
(rot13) rpbzbab@tznvy.pbz
Don't call Muslim women ninjas!
If you ever go to the link pointed out (I know, we are in /., and RTFS is for weaklings only) ...
Instead, he delivered an excellent speech about DRM
you'll find a beautiful Minutes of the Debate in WORD.
Richard, your message was lost !
If he didn't have the annoying tendency to be right all the damn time, I think I might care about his footwear.
sic transit gloria mundi
Because the minutes of the debate are in .DOC format.
One would think that any assembly styling themselves as being open-minded and advocating open debate would be above something as petty as a dress code.
Dress codes anywhere but where the dressing is essential to the event is pointless. How is a uniform going to inspire creative thought? If what matters is what people have on their minds, why care about what they have on their bodies?
"You're infinitely more insightful than me, but you aren't wearing the special clothes, so you can't join my discussion group."
Sounds like something straight out of an elementary school playground.
Good thing he's not selling anything.
Bot Assisted Blogging
And gcc. And Emacs. And the GPL.
Have you ever read his code? It's fascinating stuff, and quite brilliant.
Considering how much more successful than yours his career has undoubtably been, without having had to conform to arbitrary standards of professionalism, I think it's safe to say that denouncing his work because of what he wears constitutes an almost criminal ineptitude on your part.
Well, what bugs me about Stallman's professionalism is his insistance on other people using his terms (ie. using the terms "free software" instead of "open-source software" and not using the term "intellectual property"), while he insists DRM stands for "digital restrictions management."
I think Stallman's done some great things for the computer world, but I wish he wasn't such a hypocrite in matters like this.
he is selling ideals. much more dangerous then anything you exchange money for....
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
Therein lies another insight into the self-effacing brilliance of RMS. He doesn't need a suit. He's proved his worth by making his vision work, not by using the usual tricks of the trade and flim-flamming with long words, suits and "presence". Actually, that last he has in spades but it's a natural thing, not a put-on to cover up cluelessness. Whilst I don't fully agree with all of his ideals, I can't help admiring the man for his principles and ability to make things work against all odds.
It's just another part of his character: "Here I am, as asked. I'm not going to lie to you or try to make my ideals look appealing. I won't dress up the message or myself to try to divert your attention from the downsides of the issue. I'll just tell it like it is." He's 100% consistent in this and it's one of the reasons people respect the man. In my opinion this does more to help the movement than hinder it.
As for XKCD, how long until some misguided lawyer (yes, Thompson, I'm looking at you) starts to spout off about webcomics encouraging ninja attacks?
Resistance is futile. Reactance buggers it up.
> One would think that any assembly styling themselves as being open-minded and advocating open debate would be
> above something as petty as a dress code.
The saddening truth is that dress code pettiness is to be obeyed when you want to address people that count (their money).
Free software wouldn't be anywhere close to where it is today if its only promoters wore only jeans and T-shirts.
If you judge success by money, happiness and respect among peers then i'm very successful.
The man doesn't wear shoes, fuck even the crazy homeless meth addict down town knows shoes are a good thing. what happens when he stands on a boondie or kicks his toe?
his constant grandstanding and absurd demands of the rest of the software industry detract from the good work he has done.
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
Was he hiding any pancakes in his beard?
I don't care about this either way, but here's an explanation for you:
It's impolite, just like picking his nose is impolite even though it doesn't detract from his message. Dressing appropriately is so easy to do, people are going to assume that if you don't, you're disrespecting them. He's not some kid with little control over his wardrobe, he's an adult dressing in the laziest way possible.
Hands in my pocket
But you're already a 5 dude. That's like the highest number!
He's just trying to make a point. And I think he makes a great one with DRM.
Keep in mind, Stallman comes from a generational philosophy that , following Wittgenstein, notes that words have the ability to confuse, so precise language ensures your being understood. (Wittgenstein famously argued that all problems in philosophy are problems of language. Ambiguous language makes logical problems where in reality none exist. I think he backed away from the strong form of that position later on however.)
Stallman, DOESNT argue for opening up source for the utility of it, he argues for what he believes is the freedom dividend of it. Consequently, he'd like people to keep talking about freedom, and not be so distracted by the marketing.
I personally think that this tactic hasn't helped his cause an awful lot, but I certainly understand why he does it.
Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.
Honestly, this is extremely sloppy.
|/usr/games/fortune
Ninja: Thanks for the speech Dick - I look forward to killing you soon!
/disappears
Stallman: WTF?
Hello Yale University
Where is the video of the talk?
Btw, it's a real shame to offer the minutes of the RMS's talk in the Microsoft Word format. If the that is the level of the Yale students, I'm not sure they understood what RMS said.
Free weed?... Forget about this software thing, I want Free Weed!
- These characters were randomly selected.
He used to get beat up in Central Square every other month so I'm sure the ninjas were no big deal. . .
"The saddening truth is that dress code pettiness is to be obeyed when you want to address people that count (their money)."
Stallman pays not only a financial price, but a social price, also. He probably does not accurately evaluate the social cost of acting differently, otherwise he would not want to pay such a high social price.
In some ways he is extremely intelligent, but socially he is a lost puppy.
Please tell me that wasn't all that he was wearing
Brocklesby Park Cricket Club
That's not actually freedom. People should be free to choose their license of choice, but in a stallman world that's not an option.
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
Seems like by not dressing as other people do he's just adding more nonsense to the mix. Instead of delivering his message by speaking he's causing other people to focus on what he's wearing; generating controversy or trying to give himself a "look", instead of just giving a speech he's giving everyone other things to focus on.
e.g. Here we are, talking about his stupid dress choice, and not about his speech. If he just dressed like everyone else we would be talking about what he said, not how he dressed, but he's taking away from what he said by dressing inappropriately.
// MD_Update(&m,buf,j);
Stallman does not obsess over what he wears. Obviously, you have a problem with that. Feel free to wear your collared shirts and brown loafers, but please, spare the rest of us from your moronic ideal of what a "normal person" should be.
... The man doesn't wear shoes ...
And so we should all ridicule him. Fuck his message (which you either don't understand or just hate), he doesn't wear shoes on occasion.
Excuse me, I think that the sky may be falling.
"We may face a scorched and lifeless earth, but they're accountable to their shareholders first."
who are you to say what is appropriate? fuck, i feel a suit is completely inappropriate for this kind of thing and all those fuckwads dressed in suits are disrespecting the whole thing
For Stallman there is a real need to be precise about the terms, to avoid adding to the confusion.
If you ever have the chance to visit one of his speeches, do yourself a favor and go. Stallman is a really great speaker. Just don't make the mistake of asking why "he decided to do open-source". I garantee he will ride your ass about that one! I doubt the clueless French guy at Fosdem2006 will do that again... ;-)
In a Stallman world the GPL wouldn't be required, you could release your code into the public domain and people wouldn't rip it off and sell you back proprietary versions of it.
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your the moronic one if you think running around in a formal setting without shoes doesn't speak volumes about him.
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
You really know nothing about the parent poster - a lot of people have had success and have never had to pretend that the work of others is their own when it looks like things are flagging a bit. The "advertising" prefix of gnu on linux is well described in several of the old gnu newsletters. It may all be in a good cause but it really looks to me like MIT staffroom oneupmanship escaped to where we can see it in response to some jab about how the hurd is going.
That aside, from what I've heard (feel free to contradict), RMS is not the sort of person you would want to invite to your conference unless it is very informal and certainly does not have the much hated name tags (it's an old hate that predates RFID). It would be best if the people on the door can identify him by sight if there is any form of restricted entry (eg. if people have to pay to attend) in case he decides to put on a bit of a show to make a possibly valid point and that those asking questions know his personal interpretations of "free" and "open" beforehand and avoid the linux naming question at all costs.
The licence is good, the gnu tools are good, he's put a lot of personal work into emacs and gcc at times and done a lot of good with the FSF but we really do not need a hero to follow blindly. He's a human being with good things to say - listen to those but do not worship.
I don't think you're right. Everyone who has met Stallman seems to have to write something about being impressed by his physical appearance. This article is no exception. He is not wearing the uniform of others, but he is trying to intimidate people with his own styled appearance. If you have this hairstyle and are wearing these colors, then this somewhat reminds me of Dirk Gently, self-styled holostic detective, sporting an utterly unfashionably collection of garbs, but still, self-styled and cultivated and consciously so because of the effect it creates and has on people.
But I like Stallman for being self-styled and his own man. It's much better than a lot of nerds who are just wearing another uniform, the carefully cultivated nerd look. Yet they're dressing as they think they're supposed to, conforming to how others look. As someone who likes to think he's self-styled, all I've left to say is: 1) be your -own- man, 2) for the love of god, it is OK to have some style and class. Really! I won't condemn you as a lousy programmer for wearing good shoes.
He's not "dressing lazy"; IIRC he simply does not own a suit. He does not believe in wasting wealth on non-essential items; this enables him to live on a relatively small income while spending most of his time pursuing the ideals he cares about. In my opinion, this attitude is much more noble than your "Hey, there's a guy with a cheap wardrobe! What a disrespectful jerk!" attitude. Expecting someone to waste hundreds of dollars to dress up like a penguin (insert Linux joke here) just to show that they "respect" you is extremely childish. Respect is a quality of interaction between people--material goods have no inherent 'respect'.
And don't try to hide behind social custom. Just because some people are (by common custom) materialistic, elitist assholes doesn't mean you have to be too.
if you want to write code and give it away fine, but why does he have a problem with what the rest of us do with our own work?
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
This sounds like something that's a lot funnier when you're reading xkcd and imagining it in a marijuana-induced state than when you're actually carrying it out. Even the photos look awkward ("We're attacking you, Stallman, get it?"). And the ninja suits, sheesh.
Here we go with the Ayn Rand objectivist point of view, as always.
"Everyone should be free, as long as they embrace the tenet that their freedom ends where another person's freedom begins.."
"No, wait! That's not actually freedom, you see. People should be free to choose whether or not to allow someone else their freedom.. But in Stallman's world, that's not an option, which means that he's one of those horrible socialists. We don't want socialists in good old reactionary America, now do we?"
Please come to terms with your own argument. It is one thing to critique the GPL. It is quite another to imply that the software movement would be better off without it.
"We may face a scorched and lifeless earth, but they're accountable to their shareholders first."
Unfortunately, there are people who matter in life that care about your appearance. Why not put on a suit and a pair of shoes and get that out of the way so you can focus on the harder things?
body massage!
So basically, he's against corporate double-speak. I too refer to DRM as "digital restrictions management", as the typically-used word "rights" implies that it's there to protect mine - which, as we all know, is most certainly not the case. Truth be told, I usually just call it copy protection, seeing that's the most frequent way it'll cause something to stop functioning as you'd think (the notable major exception of late being that thing where Google shut down their video store and killed all of people's purchases).
How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
Yes, lazy is the point...
He's spending his time and effort on things that do matter ie his talk, and doing the bare minimum on things that don't matter (ie clothes).
Suits and ties are uncomfortable...
The shoes that go with them are uncomfortable and bad for your feet
Such clothes are overpriced and a horrendous waste of money
Not only that, but dressing in a suit and tie strongly suggests you need to try and use your appearance to give some credibility to what your saying because it can't stand on it's own.
How you dress usually has no effect on your ability to complete a task, and as such you should be evaluated based on that. Obviously there are some tasks where what you wear actually has an impact, like diving.
As for "impoliteness" and "disrespect" there is nothing impolite or disrespectful about wearing a tshirt and shorts, not unless the tshirt sports an insulting slogan anyway. The idea that you need to wear particular clothes to show respect is completely contrived and totally ridiculous. It is purely down to conditioning and sheep-like herd behavior... People don't know *why* its supposed to be polite to wear a suit, they just think that it is because thats what they've been told. It's a meme that does more harm than good.
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Nobody's saying he should put on a suit and tie or anything. Jeans and a t-shirt would be perfectly acceptable. However if he wants to be taken seriously, he needs to do a couple things:
Would you say the same thing if he showed up to a presentation naked, or covered in feces? If you're incapable of managing your own persona hygiene, how in the hell are you going to manage something global? RMS can be as much of a hippy as he likes, but unless he cleans himself up at least a little bit nobody's going to take him seriously besides other hippies. There's a reason why RMS is a laughing stock, and it's partly due to his insistence on "Free Software" above anything else. For every one person who is actually interested in hearing RMS speak at a presentation like this, there are 50 who are there to laugh at the smelly, delusional hippy.
Your idea of "formal settings" is humorous to me. I think that anyone should feel quite justified in wearing whatever the hell they feel like wearing to absolutely -any- function or "setting" that they want. Clothes have become some sort of weird gauge for the fundamentalists, both socially and economically, and it's simply an extrapolation of racism and classism. You can wear what you want to wear, my friend, but that doesn't mean that you are rich or successful, nor does it mean that you are poor or stupid. Please understand that.
"We may face a scorched and lifeless earth, but they're accountable to their shareholders first."
Blooming bearded hippie ought to get a job. ;-)
threadeds blog
RMS changes meaning for emotional effect - the "free" redefinition, inventing "copyleft", adopting the silly redefinition of "operating system" proposed by Microsoft in the antitrust trial that we all laughed about but is convenient if you want to redefine a gnu operating system, talking about "treacherous computing" - bad certainly but nothing less than high treason is it Mr Stallman!
This sort of thing is probably quite common but in a global context it looks petty, silly and is bound to confuse both those with english as a second language and those of us unfamiliar with whatever US slang is fashionable.
The point is, he's not getting all worked up about ridiculous things like what people wear...
You may be blindly following a herd of sheep who believe (but don`t know why) that wearing a suit and tie makes you respectable... And your therefore willing to sacrifice comfort, practicality and money to conform to that ridiculous expectation.
RMS on the other hand will wear what he finds comfortable, because he isn't willing to sacrifice anything for a ridiculous social meme.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
Sure, ditch the suit and tie. After all, it's not like Steve Jobs wears them to special events. But why go barefoot? The guy probably wears shoes outside his home, so why take them off to get on stage and deliver a speech to respected academics?
Respectable/serious attire are necessary not to convince your audience that you are right, but to convince them that you are "normal" by everybody else's standards. It's a big part of the fight right now.. to show that crippled, proprietary code is not the norm and that it is possible to have a system based on free - or at least open - code in the "real world". To show that it's not an outrageous idea. And it doesn't help when your leaders are barefoot lunatics who dislike shampoo and don't cut their hair.
i never suggested the world was better off without GPL, i said CHOOSE YOUR OWN LICENSE.
if that means GPL that's fine. my point, was that stallman doesn't want that kind of freedom.
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
That's nice, and 20+ years old. What has he done lately to keep himself relevant? His personal web page is full of political propaganda and tripe (figures RMS would support the Green Party). It doesn't even have a section on software he's written, outside of the "Serious Bio" portion. His blog is nothing more than a listing of speaking engagements. And doesn't he have some sort of RSI that prevents him from actually typing (using speech commands instead)? As a developer, he's notoriously difficult to work with (why emacs has forked so much, for example). He's pretty much marginalized when it comes to code, and is nothing more than a figurehead for the FSF. A statue of a hippy would work just about as well.
Fair enough, but this particular forum doesn't seem to mind a bit of informality creeping in. I mean, what sort of professional, academic settings have ninjas attacking their guests?
Cogito, ergo sig.
...he didn't bring his katana.
No way. Lost puppies are cute.
Further to that, if you look at this picture you get the impression that RMS was the best dressed person in the place.
Cogito, ergo sig.
The earlier troll said "buy". There was a fork in the C code version of emacs that was based on Stallman's earlier emacs writen in the form of macros on exactly this point - a commercial version even under the GPL created pretty bad feeling due to loss of control so RMS appointed a different developer of emacs. He's done a lot of stuff but the legend is bigger than the man - computer magazines are calling him "the co-author of the linux kernel" when the tech journalist hasn't looked deeply enough.
the only thing you'd buy from a guy like that is weed.
Luckily, he's not selling weed, but freely giving away his enormously valuable copyright.
(You fucking idiot)
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
I went to see him in Quito, Ecuador, at a local university. I was thinking the same thing. He was picking at his messy hair and scratching (I think) his nose. It was a pretty conservative looking crowd (especially for mainly computer science students). He delivered the whole speech in quite fluent Spanish, and the audience loved him. I got especially concerned when he went into the whole Church of Emacs thing. They are extremely Catholic down there and I half-expected someone to get offended. But they were slapping their knees laughing. I dunno, he seems to be doing an OK job to me.
They're NEXT!
Left wing liberal software communist gets attacked by terrorist extremists. O'Reily celebrates. More at 9'.
But as guest speaker in a student union? If they seriously expect suit and tie for something like that and are the slightest bit offended at someone who show up without it, then they are too far up their asses to be worthy of respect.
If you invite Stallmann you know what you get.
As you said, there are certain expectations when you are a GUEST speaker. Amongst them that YOU get shown respect for the message you are there to convey and for your personal beliefs and principles. Noone forced anyone to invite Stallmann.
As it is, you are showing far more disrespect than what Stallmann does - he's just sticking to his principles while you're just being an ass.
Here's an interesting article: http://www.unshod.org/pfbc/pfrossi2.htm I wear sandals myself, because I learnt my lesson the hard way a couple of years ago. It's easy to get a cut in the skin and then that can get infected. I got leptospirosis like that, sort of. Ah well.
When you invite a speaker, that is on rather different terms to the situation when a person is there as a guest. If you would like the speaker to wear a particular uniform which he doesn't have then you should a) check that it's okay with him (you cannot expect a Rabbi to come without a hat) b) if they don't have the uniform then you should provide a loan for them for free. It seems to me that both of these things were failed in this case. RMS lives somewhat "ascetically" and criticising him for failing to join in your materialism and pomposity is equivalent to criticising St Anthony, Ghandi or even Jesus for their poverty or criticising Mohammad for not eating often enough. If this were a representative of RedHat, you might have a point. If you can't take the use of ideas from those who "think differently" may I suggest you look up some of the lives of the Greek philosophers and then stop using any products based on mathematics.
Indeed, all those formal settings where he gets attacked by sunglasses ninjas being an example of how he doesn't care for being professionalism.
You misunderstand Free Software. Look it up.
The argument falls apart just based on the sheer amount of code that IS available that was written by people that didn't make a living selling it.
I find it bizarre that this argument pops up time and time again on a site like Slashdot where most people should know this. Look at the typical software jobs available. Hardly any of them are for companies that make a living selling software.
And far fewer software houses would be around if even a small fraction of the companies not selling code started opening up the source for projects that don't have a major competitive impact, as the incremental costs for everyone involved would drop as the amount of stuff that has to be written from scratch by everyone would drop.
if you couldn't make a living selling your code, what incentive is there to write it.
You'd still be able to make a living coding. Code is a means to an end, you either write it because you want to (i.e. it is a hobby) or because someone needs the end result, in which case they can employ you or sponsor you to write the code. So you could still make a living coding even if you couldn't from selling the code directly.
Other than that I do agree that people should still be able to choose their own licence.
Look again at my list. It included the GPL itself, and he's been spending huge amounts of time on that.
He's had serious wrist issues, and hired students to help record dictation for him. (I actually blame Emacs for that somewhat, with its excessive use of Escape and Control keys in conjunction.) But so have a lot of programmers, and I understand his wrists are much better now.
He still pokes his head into gcc code and Emacs now and then, but it's true he's been politically too busy to keep deeply involved in it. And for a big open source project, that's what he wanted! Features and bigfixes are occurring that he would never have imagined, or pursued.
Therein lies another insight into the self-effacing brilliance of RMS. He doesn't need a suit. He's proved his worth by making his vision work, not by using the usual tricks of the trade and flim-flamming with long words, suits and "presence".
Imagine I have a solution to global warming. So we meet to talk about this epic problem, but I have a little deformed third hand sticking out my neck.
You know I may have something important to say, and you know the number of my hands isn't related to it, but you keep staring uneasily at the third arm sticking out my neck, waving at your general direction.
You go home and need to start planning how to implement my solution to global warming, but all you can remember is "what the hack was that thing on his neck?!" and don't remember anything else.
Well, culture is like that, if Stallman wanted people to concentrate on his speech, he'd dress appropriately, even if cheap. I doubt pair of socks and trousers are something excessive to put on.
He's just plain weird, let's face it. Part trying to make us feel pitty about him and donate to his organisation, part "look me, I'm so unconventional, I'll shock you by coming bare footer, boooyaa!"
At least, that's all I'd remember.
Well, what bugs me about Stallman's professionalism is his insistance on other people using his terms (ie. using the terms "free software" instead of "open-source software" and not using the term "intellectual property"), while he insists DRM stands for "digital restrictions management."
What also bugged me is he stopped short of telling what can be better in DVD players. He was correct in stating all legal DVD players are limited and limit the consumer. He should have elaborated. The big reason I like Linux with the right codecs, is the player just plays the movie. No legal player can make that claim. Instead of playing the movie, you are required to sit through the FBI warning every time, maybe some previews, and the DON'T STEAL THIS FILM short. Pardon me, I just want to put in the movie and watch the movie. If I want to watch that other stuff, I can always find it in the menu.
I would buy a DVD player that would start the movie first or could be configured to play the movie first, but due to the consipiracy, it is illegal to own one. The restrictions are preventing the manufactures from making and selling a better player.
The truth shall set you free!
If he didn't have the annoying tendency to be right all the damn time, I think I might care about his footwear.
You may not, but you'll be surprised how odd certain other people (with power nonetheless) may see his behavior.
It's the world we live in. If you're sexy, you have a better chance at becoming the president of the USA.
I'm not saying Stallman should be sexy, but if he'll be pulling off such tricks, many people who could make a difference will just see him for the hippy he is and dismiss what he has to say and his entire movement.
I, at least, have to do presentations here and there to be moving my business, and realize that if you want people to figure out your message, you don't want to distract them with your odd persona, and follow basic etiquette, unless your odd persona is part of your product. And I'm not sure being barefooted is requirement for being against DRM.
You're referring to what became Xemacs? There was a lot more going on than a "bad feeling about loss of control", believe me. The Wikipedia article matches my recollections of the time, and is surprisingly good. (I wasn't directly involved, but I did meet some of the folks involved professionally.)
I'm concerned that your "co-author of the Linux kernel" memory is equally glossed over: do you have a reference for it? Because I've seen him his role in creating gcc, used to compile Linux, as a core component of the Linux kernel, but I've never seen him described as a co-author.
It's easy for little skewings of the events like that to mislead people who haven't invested the time to know better. The devil is in the details.
Alternately, he is undoing a system that sets too much store by clothing and labels by showing people that a hugely influential and intelligent person can get where they are and change things without having to conform to other people's expectations. In that, he is trying to bring about another social change he believes is for the better. And I agree with him. Confusing the cost of someone's clothing with the value of what they're saying is a problem in our society.
Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
While his appearance doesn't invalidate or cheapen in ANY way the work he has done in his long career, it doesn't help the image of his movement as viewed by people outside of it. Like it or not, the reality of the world we live in is, people who get to make policy decisions and distribute the money and resources do judge you partly on your appearance. Stallmann has been successful in spite of his unconventional attitude to social norms by the power and merits of his vision and principles, but you have to wonder if things might have been different--maybe in just a few instances--if he met the rest of the world somewhere in the middle on the other stuff.
I meant no disrespect to the man, but that doesn't mean I agree with all the decisions he's made.
If you build it, nerds will come. Soylentnews.org
I dont think he cares too much.
that reminded me of the arstechnica articles on the development of the amiga.
there they didnt have a dresscode, and the article stated that at one time someone showed up at work wearing purple spandex pants and pink fluffy slippers. and yes, that person was a man.
comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
How is a uniform going to inspire creative thought? If what matters is what people have on their minds, why care about what they have on their bodies?
I agree that it's unwise to ignore RMS due to his clothes. However, dressing eccentrically may distract people from your core message - as this very conversation shows. We aren't talking about software patents - we're talking about no shoes? Doesn't he hurt his feet?
In other words, he might think that wearing a suit could help advance his (anti-software-patent) cause, and do it for this reason.
Just my $0.02
"Goodness me, how unlike the FBI to abuse the trust of the American public." -- The Onion
would you send the package to your friends or enemies?
WORD format nicely specifies the intended recipients.
No. It's very much an american thing. It happens in the military, on TV and in the softer sciences - basically all over american society; people have this uncommon need to invent jargon, where there is no need for one. 'Verbing', using acronyms as words, silly things like 'herstory', 'a reveal', the list is endless. Basically, the kind of words that in conversation would get you laughed out of the room, becomes A-Ok when you your instructor, your book, or the presenter says it. Weird.
I am sure he made some very good points regarding DRM and why it is bad for consumers and also the businesses that are currently using it.
But why bother? The fact that he could not even be bothered to wear shoes, let alone a suit has probably set our position back miles. The fact is that first appearances count for a lot, and the first impression you would get of him when he took that stage is that he was just there are as joke and the ninjas were just part of it.
I know us techies are known for refusing to wear suits and such but that is actually half the problem. The corporate world would rather hire techies who are slightly less good at their jobs but are will make a very minor concession to corporate culture. If you want to get taken seriously by the future corporate managers attending Yale, wear a suit.
On a topic such as DRM you have to be very careful how you come across. If the corporate world only ever see people lobbying against it who look like they would also lobby against the corporate culture itself may well think the two are related. If they see people campaigning against DRM who are already part of the corporate world they may take them more seriously.
So when Steve Jobs comes out and makes a speech against DRM it helps, when someone who looks like a worthless hippie does the same it actually helps the proponents of DRM more than the opponents.
I dont read
As for the "gcc, used to compile Linux, as a core component of the Linux kernel" - no it is something obviously very important but completely different. Gcc is not part of the kernel, neither is something it is linked to - it is itself.
Ninjas with B00BS!!!
*sigh*
Where are my mod points when I need them?
The points you make are very valid... But, since I can't mod you up, I might as well inject my opinion while I'm at it. The people who are interested in what he has to say aren't the ones in suits. The people he can speak to most directly, and who he'll have the biggest sway with, are people who most likely would show up to work in the same attire.
I don't mean that to be pejorative, of course. I think MBA-having, suit wearing asskissers are just slightly more evolved than lawyers, and slightly below pond scum...
Unfortunately, until we reach the point where intelligence is more important in business than how you look and who you know (not to mention the lack of morality or compassion, which I think is assumed), those suits are exactly the people we need to be impressing.
Impress, infiltrate, overthrow.
That one made it as far as Australia before hitting up against people that knew that the word "history" apparently comes from histos in greek meaning to write which has nothing to do with gender. It is worth having those migrants to help understand your own language.
Unless you want to get killed.
It's not that he'll shoot you if you dress as a ninja and try to sneak up on him. It's just that his speech might exceed the bullshit threshold that you can tolerate.
>north
You're an immobile computer, remember?
I thought suits were for retards. (yes I said retards)
Apparently they were - since he spoke and did not follow the dress code.
However it is extremely naive to believe that the choice of a person's clothes has nothing to do with communication. Aside from protection from the elements, the style of clothing a person chooses is entirely about communication. RMS and everyone else chooses their clothing to send a message, even if that message is 'I can't be bothered about clothes'. It is left to the reader to decide whether his message was a an intentionally rude one. I don't think it was. But he was certainly saying 'I don;t care about societal norms or the rules of your little club'.
We do know why. An expensive suit tells a tale of success, a pair of unwashed jeans and a torn T-shirt tells a tale of failure. This of course might not be the truth, first one could be someone trying to trick you out of your money, the second one could be protecting your freedom. But clothes are such a deep part of our nature - if you want people to listen to you you need to look like a success.
Sure they can. It's pretty much only in the USA that such players are considered "illegal". And by your logic, wouldn't that make Linux "an illegal player"?
... and then they built the supercollider.
Exactly. In my opinion, the clothes are irrelevant and basically a filter: if you are the sort of person that will judge Stallman by his clothes, then the wisdom he has to offer is lightyears beyond your reach. It is better that you just dismiss it rather than polluting the discussion.
"If God created us in his own image we have more than reciprocated." - Voltaire
He was at least wearing pants I hope, can't fend off a ninja attack without pants. Even pirates know that.
For some reason, this reminds me of someone I know... He worked at AT&T, and when they tried applying a dress code at the site he worked at, he protested by wearing a dress to work. When his boss asked him about it, he said he identified himself as female and threatened to sue them for discrimination because what he had on fit the dress code for women. I think he kept that up for a year or two, with his boss and the higher ups afraid to say anything, before he quit.
A strange way to protest, I admit. But his actions got at least that one location to think about their dress code. They may have only thought twice about it because they were afraid of being sued, and it was cheaper to let some guy come to work wearing a dress (this was in the late 70s if I remember right), but at least they thought twice.
Maybe that was a few years ago but when I consult I rarely wear a suit or tie although I normally wear comfortable and neat cloths. In many cases CEO's are normally suspicious of technical consultants if they wear suits although it is expected that the sales people wear suits. The main rules in the meetings I attend have nothing to do with dress code but to make sure everyone turns off their mobile and unless there are special reasons, typing on your PC or PDA is the hight of bad manners. In fact most of the consulting meetings I attend pen and paper are the preferred data entry medium.
There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.
These entities are 1) not people, 2) do not matter, and 3) barely qualify as alive.
You're absolutely right, there are certain expectations, but they're not only one-way. When you invite Richard M. Stallman to your campus, you can expect a number of things that you wouldn't expect from very many people, including but not limited to wearing a t-shirt and no shoes. If the person who invited him to speak there in the first place expected him to show up clean-cut, well combed, and wearing a suit coat and tie, then either (a) he was wildly disillusioned or (b) had no idea who RMS was. "Oh, hey, when I google 'anti drm' this RMS guy shows up a whole bunch. Let's invite him!"
Um, actually I find that a suit that's actually your size and that isn't made of plastic (and even some that are) can be exceptionally comfortable. Hell, I buy cheap suit trousers just to wear around. With you on the shoes, though.
It's time for your shift, don't forget to wipe your countertop and say "Have a nice day" lickspittle.
never let a man put his dirty how-do-you-do into your bajingo
Likewise, you make valid points about how much upper management in big business is largely informed by who you know and emulating the powerful. However, I (politely) disagree that the following is a workable strategy:
Leaving aside that there are many very nice and sincere people who simply like to wear suits and plenty of incompetents who wear combats and t-shirts, those who breaking suit prejudice amongst those who hold it cannot realistically be achieved by first conforming to the prejudice. The only workable approach is to demonstrate value whilst not conforming. To do otherwise is to sign over the value one possesses to the cause of suit-prejudice, i.e. if someone who contributes as much to free software as Richard Stallman is commonly seen wearing an expensive suit and dazzlingly coiffured hair, it simply goes to reinforce the idea that suit=competence. If he does not, his value contributes to the idea that not-wearing-suit can also equal competence. Someone who wore a suit for twenty years to become CEO and then suddenly started turning up in beach shorts and sandles, would not be seen as "overthrowing" anything. People don't work like that, no more than the Pope could suddenly reveal he's a muslim infiltrator and declare that Catholicism is now a branch of Sunnism. If you want to overcome prejudice, then the first rule is to stand by what you are.
Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
Be grateful he didn't he didn't attempt to demonstrate nasal sex with plants ..
was: Re:he sported a T shirt, and no shoes
davecb5620@gmail.com
This is amazing, sir or madam!! You just skewed it again! You turned your own quote about "bad feeling about loss of control", which I cited carefully, into "bad feeling". It's misleading.
Do you have any other details for that Australian PC magazine? Did anyone write and explain the facts of life to the author.
You've a valid point about gcc: gcc is "merely" a vital part of the toolchain to build Linux kernels, especially for cross-compilation. That's why the kernels are so careful to state which gcc and glibc are needed in the requirements. I have seen it referred to as a component, probably the same way you've seen Mr. Stallman as a co-author of the Linux kernel: as a mistake.
This isn't necessarily saying that the way every company does things is the most sensible way. And great things have come from people scratching their intellectual itches, or- to put it more flatteringly- doing what really enthuses them. But the other side of the coin is that many companies would argue that they require more coherence from staff behaviour.
Your typical Slashdotter might not like this, and I'm not going to demean their choice. I'm not sure that I personally like it either. But you have to realise that this is a reflection of our underlying personalities, that we like to do things our own way. I'm a great believer in diversity of personality types, and that there is no "right" or "wrong" one.
What does this have to do with such clothes? It's that they *are* a symbolic gesture- that you're willing to do things the way others want, even if it doesn't suit you. You might argue that this is stupid and illogical, that it doesn't change your ability to do the job. But human beings aren't that "logical" in that sense anyway.
And such visual symbolism does make sense- after all, the types of people who are most unwilling to wear suits may well be the types who (though brilliant) are like herding cats when it comes to managing them. And that's not going to suit every position in every company.
It might not be perfect, but as a "willingness to do what others want" indicator and visual shortcut, it does have some functionality. Now, Stallman doesn't work for these people, that's true. But if he wants to influence them, to make them think he's got their own interests at heart, the symbolic wearing of a suit, or something similar may go a long way.
I'm well aware that people may perceive this in a knee-jerk manner as an attack on non-conformism, or consider me an apologist for the suit-wearing culture. It isn't, and I'm not. But it does grate that some people use superficial "logic" and "common sense" to justify one side of the argument, when considering the matter makes it evident that suits and similar workwear do serve a "logical" purpose. I dislike selective and superficial application of logic for purposes of self-justification. Personally, I'm not a great fit into the "suit wearing culture", but that reflects my underlying personality that I'm really not that great a team player anyway. So...
You may consider these people "sheep" or those that require such clothes stupid, but as I said before, consider that this may reflect your underlying personality- so in a way, such suits make logical sense.
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
You know, I actually agree with you. My "impress, infiltrate, overthrow" thing wasn't meant to be a quick, easy fix. I never meant it to be taken that way. It's a much more long term plan. I'm looking at a decade, not a year.
#1 - Impress. Get the established software vendors to recognize the work done by those who are behind open source.
#2 - Infiltrate. Once the value of open source is seen, have people who are dedicated to it, and who have contributed to it be seen as valuable. Get them into influential positions.
#3 - Once in positions of influence, start flexing that muscle!
#4 - ???
#5 - Profit!
oh yeaaaah baby, mod him down too. and then go to work without shoes and boot up that freebsd version 2. freedom baby!!
Richard Stallman has been attacked by ninjas! Are you a bad enough dude to rescue the Richard Stallman?
The gcc is part of the kernel weirdness really needs some work if you want to convice anybody with a clue - apples and aardvarks are not identical.
Too bad he doesn't care about his cause enough to project an aura of professionalism and courtesy. There are certain expectations when you're a GUEST speaker in a professional setting, an academic setting.
Right - Because nothing says "I believe in this" like selling out to your audience before you even start.
Then again... Yale? Perhaps he should save his energy for people who haven't already sold their souls to big business. Though I suppose I can see the benefit in getting to the minds of the Oligarchy's children during their suggestible stoner years...
This is quite true, but as has already been pointed out earlier in the discussion, Stallman is a fool for choosing to dress in such a way that people may be inspired not to take him seriously. He obviously likes to dress casually, and I'm ok with that... but it could potentially hurt his agenda, and so I think it's extremely stupid to not just avoid the difficulty altogether.
"16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
That's good. Some of us *do* get it.
Idiots like this always crack me up, poor folk who cannot separate things. (Probably this is a youngling with very strict conservative parents.) People like this is exactly why RMS is acting the way he does. Wearing shoes doesn't make you a professional. No, it does take a bit more than that. He doesn't give a flying fuck about you and your little silly rules. He cares about things that really matter. He can think outside the box and dares to act outside the box. A very rare combination. And a _very_ respectable man. He talks the talk and walks the walk.
Forget the looks kiddo. Listen to what he says.
Easy answer. It's not.
HOWEVER, it's possible that a person, freed of the decision making by such a dress code, has extra time and brainpower to devote to thinking about truly important things, rather than wasting time with trivialities like "Should I wear the Ozzy T-shirt or the Slayer T-shirt? Sandals or flops? Pants or kilt?"
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
By discussing or judging the way a person dresses we are putting ourself in a judge position, which is empowering to us. It's even more empowering because the person is socially important.
And once again, you've skewed your own words. You said, and I quote:
>> computer magazines are calling him "the co-author of the linux kernel"
And now you're saying:
> I said something about a silly tech journo making a mistake
You didn't say "a silly tech journo", you said "computer magazines". That implies that such statements are widespread. And given how you re-interpret your own words, how can we have confidence that you haven't misremembered or misquoted the magazine? Those little details really matter. This is especially the case when Richard himself does call Linux, the operating systems, "GNU/Linux", and you could apparently easily be misquoting or misremembering that.
Much like copyright law and comparisons between open source licenses, the devils are in the detailss, and you have to pay attention to them. One of Richard's great gifts is noticing the details before they create problems and making sure things are ready later on, for the edge cases: it's in his code, and it's in the GPL itself.
I'm surprised noone has mentioned it yet, but: ...That's all the airport security left him with.
The "symbolic wearing of a suit"? Surely, as he is taking a diametrically opposed viewpoint to "the suits" it's entirely appropriate for him to shun what must seem to him to be yet another stupid little restriction.
By NOT wearing a suit he's had more of an impact on the people he was addressing. By NOT wearing a suit, and presenting his arguments so well that the house sided with him will have had far more of an impact than if he'd toed the line and arrived in top-hat and tails.
There are people like Linus who represent the world of Open Source, and who are quite happy to hack the kernel and have that be the end to it. They are not overly concerned with licensing or copyright, or even Freedom. People like that don't effect global change. You need firebrands like rms to stand up in tatty clothing and say, "You are all wrong, here is my reasoning. Do you understand now?" to shake things up and get people excited, for better or worse. Bob Geldof doesn't fit into your little toe-the-line and you might do better plan either, why does he litter his rants about world-poverty with expletives? In a corporate world he'd get nowhere, but, like rms, he doesn't care what people think about him. He knows that his message is absolutely correct, and he doesn't need to fit in to make people see that.
Once they realized he had no parrot, eye-patch, or pirate hat, they left him alone.
This sig, aah-ah, is comin' like a ghost-sig...
He's a Hobit, just like Peter Jackson
Have you SEEN your president?!
Done.
Done.
Doing it.
Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
The +1 informative, interesting, and funny trifecta is complete!
Now we just need to get out brightest minds working on "#4 - ???" and "#5 - profit!" and we're set!
After 100+ comments, discussing ONLY the merits of RMS presentation attire, truly, the messenger has been shot. Does the importance of presentation make more sense now?
When's the last time anyone bought a life insurance policy from a guy dressed up like a graveyard digger? We can all battle against conformance, yes. But overcoming the inherit biological prejudices of the mind in matters of perception is losing the war entirely. I don't' think it is respect, nor even appreciation. Maybe just common sense. Which seems to be lost on most brilliant minds, like RMS.
I hope, when they die, cartoon characters have to answer for their sins.
Posted anonymously to avoid Karma Whoring. Not sure if someone has already done this, but I wasn't able to find anything on first glance through the threads.
---
MINUTES OF THE FLOOR MEETING OF
THE YALE POLITICAL UNION
October 17, 2007
The Floor Meeting of the Yale Political Union held on October 17, 2007 was called to order at 7:42 p.m. in LC 102 with the Speaker, Noah Mamis, presiding.
The chairmen report the results of their last debates and announce their upcoming debates and events.
The President of the Union, Miss April Lawson, welcomes the body to the debate and introduces Richard Stallman, founder and leader of the free software movement. She summarizes a few of the terms involved in the debate.
The President moves the topic "Resolved: Digital Restrictions Management should be illegal."
Mr. Stallman believes that all software should be free, but he is instead here to argue for something less extensive: that software should not be designed to restrict their users under the control of companies. He defines Digital Restrictions Management (DRM) as the practice of making products to restrict their users. DVDs are an example: they are designed by a conspiracy of companies to restrict the users. Any company that wants to make a DVD player has to agree to restrict users in the same way; this is a matter of public record. Free software is illegal in the US, because the conspiracy won't allow it. It is legal to copy all or part of a book for some purposes; you can borrow it, sell it to a used bookstore, lend it to a friend, buy it anonymously, or keep it and use it as much as you'd like. Publishers want to take these rights away with DRM. No one could pass a law taking these freedoms away, but e-book formats prevent you from doing this, and publishers want to encourage consumers to use e-books instead of traditional books. Companies want more power over their consumers.
DRM appears in a wide range of products from a wide range of companies: Apple uses DRM as part of iTunes, Google uses DRM in the Google Earth client. Mr. Stallman does not believe we ought to force any company to make a certain product with a certain feature, but he does not want companies to deny us access to technology to prevent us from doing things they don't want us to do. Companies are using laws to deny our rights, but there is no reason to use the laws in these particular ways. Anti-trust laws prevented companies from having too much power over the marketplace, but they didn't go far enough. An oligopoly can be almost as bad as a monopoly. However, high prices are not the only problem. Now, companies want power, which is even worse. Mr. Stallman thinks we should use democracy to defend the interests of the many against the interests of the rich few. (At the body's response, Mr. Stallman asks, "Is there a doctor in the house? I think we need to perform a hiss-terectomy.")
The first part of this solution is to remove those parts of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act that do not deal with copyright. The US government is under the thumb of the corporate conspiracy. Software that can, for instance, play a DVD, is illegal: the distributors face prosecution. The censorship system must be abolished. Corporations are extremely powerful. AACS (the follow-up to DVD technology) is used in HD-DVD and in Blu-Ray to restrict the users; the conspiracy wants to outlaw analog video outputs, which cannot be sufficiently controlled.
The "perpetrators" of this conspiracy typically argue that the consumers have agreed to buy these products, and so shouldn't complain, but this argument has been used to justify exploitative practices like low pay, long hours, and unsafe working conditions. These regulations are extremely important, because they prevent businesses from trampling us. The richest and most powerful people win politically and in the marketplace. No one can find a better product - all the DVD players on the market restrict the user.
The many should be able to work together to limi
If I had mod points I'd mod you up. Honestly, the fact that he maintains Stallman and his followers are a PR nightmare is hilarious in the face of his racism and homophobia.
Whatever good he may have done at one point, he's pissed on the goodwill of the open source community for so long it's time people stop giving him the attention he craves.
Can you provide some examples of "extremism" from RMS?
I am aware of activism from him. Things such as holding up signs, giving speeches, or attending demonstrations. Since when is that "extremism"? Non-violent protest is simply a pillar of democracy.
Just because you're filled with apathy doesn't mean that anyone who isn't is an extremist.
Does anything in the picture of him suggest that he did anything other than just picking out whatever was at the top in his drawers?
St. Ignucious
The target audience being intelligent people.
How about a brazilian wax too while you are at it you fudge packing sheep molester?
Einstein looked like a cross between a hobo and mad scientist...if only he had a good haircut, people would have listened to him.
RMS should have bought an overpriced pair of Nikes made in some third world country and you would have been happy then?
Go back to being a follower and bleet happily...
Quite a few years ago, when i was on a Karate training course, the trainer, who happened to be a renowned euorpean champion corrected one of my techniques. Even so i was still pretty green behind my ears back then i was sure that the way my local teacher showed me the technique wasnt inferior (acutally more or less a simple style question) so i refused to comply.
The master told me thats ok, but if hes sees me doing it differently once then its wrong.
Next day i did my next belt test exam under that guy.
Obviously enough he wouldnt have minded letting me fail (maybe even prefered) and eyed me really closely.
So let me tell you.
You DON`T earn respect by sniffeling and being conform.
Obviously enough itll be harder if you stand up to your own opinions and standards.
But its definatly more pleasing in the long run.
However, I still maintain that in general, the wearing of a suit does have a logical purpose, contrary to what *many* people here are arguing. It might not be a purpose that suits them (or you or me), or is to everyone's taste, but it's there. The suit basically symbolises some form of conformity, and although it's not likely to get me much credibility saying this, there are cases where conformity is necessary and beneficial. And there are other cases (such as the ones you give) where it arguably isnt.
That's not to cast judgement either way on conformism or non-conformism.
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
Oh gimmie a break, your probably sitting in front of the computer in your underwear right now.
RMS is right in wearing or not wearing whatever he wants. His message is the same one whether he wears a suit or is barefoot.
If you sincerely think that eccentricity is bad for free software publicity, then you should try to become an activist yourself and project whatever image you want. If you think free software advocates should wear a suit, then wear one yourself and go speaking at people about freedom.
RMS is a teacher: He is trying to teach you that you must value your freedom. RMS is not a superstar or celebrity. There is no reason why he should care about clothing. He just came and visited you in simple practical clothing to help you understand some issues about freedom. If people think it's better to look at his clothing instead of listening to what he has to say, then I am afraid society is still in the dark ages.
I personally see no reason why he should wear a suit, a tie, or shoes. T-Shirt and no shoes look perfectly reasonable to me.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
rational: RMS's choice of clothing has nothing to do with the content of his arguments.
pragmatic: Dressing in certain ways can prevent distracting the less-than-rational members of the audience.
asshole: Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. Your attire insulted my father. Prepare to die."
Even in criminal organizations, like for instance Enron and the Mafia, where the suit plays a primary role in pecking order, my kids would not have the opportunity that other have. There is no suit in the world that you could put on one of my kids that would allow him or her to steal as much money or terrorize a state like the Enron people did.
The opportunity costs we impose on ourselves are primarily due to the fact that we trust a person in a suit no matter how much evidence says that we should not trust that particular person. The corollary is that we do not trust people who do not look the way we wish them to, no matter the evidence that says we should.
But why go barefoot? The guy probably wears shoes outside his home, so why take them off to get on stage and deliver a speech to respected academics?
What home? No, seriously.
RMS needing to dress to code in order to get his message out is so much bunk. Those that are willing to listen will do so, those who are unwilling to listen will simply pick up some other frivilous attribute to attack while ignoring his message.
Female Politicians go through much the same issue (though from the other side of the coin). While most male politicians will have their message discussed, a lot of the media focused on a female politician don't give a damn about her message and instead focus on her clothes. It's not like they should have to undergo a sex change in order to run for office.
Stallman shouldn't have to dress up in order to be taken seriously. Besides, by living freely (and dressing freely, within the confines of the law) he epitomizes what he is struggling for.
No, that's not distracting. Biting off his toenail while one of the other speakers was talking... that was distracting.
no, if he just dressed like everyone else we would be talking about how nutjobs like him don't deserve to be part of the F/OSS community, or about how the GPL3 is so bad it makes baby Jesus cry. Don't think Stallman's clothes are the only thing standing between us and a good argument, the trolls will find even the smallest flaw and make a big fuss about it, or if they can't find one they'll make one up.
but hey! we bit the troll, but it still isn't too late, why don't we just stop talking about his clothes, and start discussing his speech now?
No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
Neoncow's post is misleading. The error does not prevent Word (at least Word 2003) from opening and displaying the file.
I'd say it'd be better to mod "Funny" than "Insightful", but whatever.
He won the debate. Seems like someone was listening.
What would have been truly funny is that as the ninjas where "attacking", he drew a toy light saber and took the classic Jedi stance to defend himself.
RD
Maybe he'll finally get the I-love-me jacket he's needed for so long.
Why can't I mod "-1 Idiot"?
How to become a lion? Endure being an enlightened camel. It is a matter of will
I don't know what suits you've been wearing, but mine is damn comfortable. I don't find many opportunities to wear it, unfortunately.
The mods are especially astute today. Not only do they mod the joke (GP) insightful, but they mod troll the voice of reason that follows it.
Cheers!
I'd say that he does obsess to an extent. He made a conscious decision to ignore dress code and for hippie wear (granted that was years--decades?--ago). If he truly didn't care, he'd show up in what they expected.
.... seems so comical...
and if it were done as a comic....
levatating RMS in budda like lotus position with his forcefield aura protecting him from the black ninja... as they try and try again to strike him until they wear themselves out.
Hmmm..... seem so real.. Even even grand master ninja gates can't seem to strike Budda Stallman....
The reason we're not talking about what he said here is that /.'s covered it a thousand times already.
Wow, for such a low uid, I'm surprised you haven't yet learned how to distinguish the difference between free as in beer and free as in speech. Stallman wholeheartedly encourages the latter - but the former not at all; have you read the GPL? Or are you so obsessed with appearance that you missed the message entirely?
The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. - Albert Einstein
Wow, that was a very well reasoned, well thought out response to my criticism of your post.
If you don't give a shit, why bother even posting?
The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. - Albert Einstein
I wasn't a criticism, it was mental ejaculation. I was criticising Stallman's lack of decorum, respect for his forum, general hygiene, and manners. But all you saw was "OMG! Free as in Speech!" Fanboyism at its worst.
To the extent Stallman has succeeded, it has been through his anti-success view of the world. He could not have achieved what he did had he been less absolutist about his approach to the world. It is counter - intuitive, but it works for him.
He has also been doing a lot of needed but not necessarily fun cleanup work on Battle for Wesnoth.
The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. - Albert Einstein
XKCD is great and all but enough with the reenactments already. I think Randall is starting to do comics just waiting to see if people will be crazy enough to reenact them.
>
> Way to go, Stallman. Way to show respect for your audience.
WTF, man! He was wearing pants, what more do you want from him?
Maybe his open source shoes are still in alpha stage, and not to be trusted in a real environment. Still improving, though.
To summarise the summary of the summary: people are a problem. ~ h2g2
Once again, your flaming fanboyism blinds you to the fact that what caught your eye was a flippant remark and the least important part of the sentence. Your reading comprehension skills are handicapped, at best.
Half of the posts is about Stallman's T-shirt and my post should be offtopic ??? It think that it is more important if the person involved is sick than if he wears a T -shirt or not ...
ouch, fanboy and his agenda exposed
Stallman has created the FSF and the GPL/LGPL licenses. He is also the author of emacs, and began the gcc project.
What have you contributed to the world in your lifetime ? Anything of value ?
Dammit! Where was Stallman's katana? People even sent him a katana for situations EXACTLY like this one!
It just goes to show you what happens when you go around unprepared for ninjas. What next? Will he be caught flat-footed during a raptor attack?
Did you see the alternative?
What, me? Never.
It's just a simple mark of respect for the audience, showing that the event is something special that is worth preparing for.. This is why people don't go to weddings, funerals, graduations, etc, in dressing gowns (I know I find dressing gowns more comfortable, but I know the father in law would be a little annoyed)
You could say "omg you sheeple if I want to wear rainbow suspenders to your mom's funeral I will, you moron, because I don't follow arbitrary conventions like "wear black". I'm too cool and ironic to show respect and unity."
// MD_Update(&m,buf,j);
I respect RMS because of his uncompromising nature. After all, if compromise worked, we'd all be happy with Shared Source serfdom and people like RMS would be irrelevant. But with respect to code, he has correctly identified the matters of principle that cannot be compromised, and has thought through the set of licensing conditions that protect those principles. Whether they're an optimal set or not is a matter for debate, but he's been directionally correct in approach, and the warnings he has made about how weaker conditions can be subverted have been proven by experience. In a hostage swap, I'd trade him for any number of Yalies, whether barefoot or in overpriced footwear. It saddens me that I'm unlikely ever to be given such a choice.
Get your teeth into a small slice: the cake of liberty
Oh thanks for the wonderful comment about my school political union? Why don't you continue with the next cheap shot? Trust me, the majority of us have not sold our soul to big business. On the contrary, most people want to help make the world a better place. Luckily, we're at Yale...we've got that kind of influence :)
"Uh... yeah, Brain, but where are we going to find rubber pants our size?" --Pinky
"All you have to do is be fragile and grateful. So stay the underdog." Chuck Palahniuk, Choke
Some people like to call him a fanatic. Now, personally I define a fanatic as someone who sticks to his guns ... whether they're loaded or not. Granted, there are plenty of people in the public eye nowadays who long ago ran out of bullets, but the problem with trying to attribute fanaticism to Richard Stallman is that he's got plenty of ammo. That is why he gets to speak at such august institutions as Yale while barefoot, and the rest of us never will no matter how presentable we happen to be.
He has something to say that more people need to hear, and you don't need to swallow every word to get something of value. Even the Stallman-bashers in the crowd should be willing to admit that he did get a lot of things right.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
nowadays those suits from those mens clothing places are about as cheap as a generic t-shirt.
Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
So I should have to cut off my hand if I want my message to be remembered? Fuck you.
Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
What I wanna know is, why are they making you pay tuition at all? They have that huge ass-endowment that would allow them to pay off every single student's tuition just off the interest.
Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
I'd like you to know that there is a presenter dress code but it was waived specifically so that they could have RMS speak. Only Slashdot trolls care about RMS's appearance.
Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
The target audience being people who find it funny. I think XKCD is the work of a genius, the accuracy achieved on identifying geek-type reasonings and thought-games is mind blowing. You may not share this type of thinking and thus it just isn't funny for you. "Ninjas" is not teh funney, I agree, but there are other comics that are just plain perfect.
Even then, maybe funny is not the right word. I'd say XKCD is most of the time "+5 Insightful", with a touch of cleverness and humor. It's not a traditional comic. I know at least one other comic that shares this spirit, it's in spanish and it's called Macanudo, and it is more related to feelings and people than it is to geeks, but they do share a big pattern.
My english is sow-sow. Sowhat?
Resistance is futile. Reactance buggers it up.
Eh, that I question. I know I go to school here for free :)
Go take a look at the pictures. The audience isn't well-dressed either. There's a dress code for the speakers, but it was waived so they could have RMS speak.
Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
Poor response, F in debate. Try to refute the argument itself, don't exaggerate, and don't substitute insults and cussing for reason. It looks like you have nothing to contribute to the discussion.
Infuriate left and right
--- These are not words: wierd, genious, rediculous
Then again... Yale? Perhaps he should save his energy for people who haven't already sold their souls to big business. Though I suppose I can see the benefit in getting to the minds of the Oligarchy's children during their suggestible stoner years... And once again I am reminded (to my embarrassment) that my side of the political spectrum has as many under-informed, stereotype-spewing fools as the right wing... the Oligarchy's children? I suppose you mean the 63% of Yale students who attend on some form of scholarship (and remember that Ivies give no "merit" or "athletic" scholarships). Perhaps you mean the 49% of students who do work-study programs. Seriously, this isn't the 1930s. What's more, I was at the debate in question and didn't encounter any student who minded Stallman's choice of clothing. I don't know if the people on this thread criticizing Stallman are from Yale, but as someone pointed out, his dress certainly didn't affect the way his speech was received...his side won the debate. By the way, my understanding of the Political Union's dress code is that its stated goal precisely to ensure that speakers will be judged not on their looks but on the quality of their ideas...
First of all, this is obvious and doesn't need to be restated every five minutes (with weird smug superiority, no less). It's not that we don't get how the "real world" works.
Point is, he's one of the most influential people in the world when it comes to Free Software and he's more than earned the right to dress however he damn pleases without people whining about how he represents "their" community all the damn time.
I mean seriously, the man basically created the Free Software movement from scratch, but every random dipshit on Slashdot feels the need to give him pointers on etiquette. Way to contribute there: "I know that some people like it if you wear shoes when you evangelize to them." Yeah, no shit Sherlock.
Sorry, rant over (it's a pet peeve: useless whining about people who actually do things)
sic transit gloria mundi
This discussion is silly. I saw RMS speak a few months back. There was nothing wrong or exhibitionistic with the way he dressed. His hair and beard were reasonably trimmed. He wasn't even unusually fat.
Anyway, what will annoy the Suits is what he says and how he says it. As soon as he opens his mouth, it doesn't matter if he wears Armani or a purple Barney suit.
The thing is that Stallman is the whole package. Do you honestly think if he dressed nice and was well groomed that he would have the same notoriety? Remember any publicity is good publicity.
RMS has his moments of toolage just like everyone else.
"You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
He's playing to the image of the barefoot, overweight UNIX nerd. Technical crowds will recognize his street cred when he looks like that. If he looked like a politician, people wouldn't pay very much attention to his message -- he'd look like yet another hair-slicked marketing type in corporate.
IMO, he just needed a pair of suspenders and a quarter.
Barely sentient. It's so easy now.
The quotes the parent made were not valid. They were hero-worshipping wishful thinking, that RMS did anything more than crawl out of whatever he calls a bed and toss on whatever was on the top of the drawer. You're thinking too hard about something I doubt RMS thinks about at all.
That's almost true. The people who are interested in what RMS has to say aren't the ones in suits (ie, the people running businesses), but they should be the people he wants interested. He's welcome to sway all of the slovenly-dressed, low-totem-pole workers. What are they going to do? It's the suits that run the businesses and make the decisions on what software to buy or use, whether or not to sell their own software, how to license it, etc. These are the people that RMS should be targetting, because they're the only ones who can realistically make the changes he wants. Too bad he's been very effective at alienating himself from them.
So all pepole who wear suits are asskissers? There's no possibility of a slobbish, t-shirt/shorts/flip-flops-wearing hippy being an asskisser too?
When it comes to software companies, we're quite past that. Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer don't often wear suits. Steve Jobs doesn't wear a suit. Larry Page and Sergey Brin don't often wear suits. They do dress acceptably (their t-shirts are at least clean and tucked-in), and they're aware when it's socially polite to dress up. But the real difference is that they live in the real world while RMS lives in a fantasy of his own creation.
Well since no one seems to have come close a reasoned response to his arguments and there really isn't anyone (Except perhaps Balmer, Gates, Jobs and a few content industry execs with equal clout) to stand against him he's repeating himself and we'd be better served by reading his book than by reading a debate he has with the clueless.
If he wants to add an element of his idology that he thinks will attract people to his real goal then that's fine.
Blah blah blah GPL3vs2...
Blah blah blah FSF's newest suit against software theives.
Blah blah blah hardware DRM...
Now let's talk about the NINJA!
I have never heard of Stallman being considered "normal."
I started reading the comments hoping to find a discussion and maybe some interesting posts about DRM, but it's just page after page of comments about what the man's wearing! Has the army secretly started testing that gay weapon"? Come on, people, get a grip!
"It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." - Anton LaVey
Last time I met RMS in Athens when he came to speak at a university here, I think he came with shoes but if I remember correctly he removed them during the scheduled break. I was I think near him, and I didn't pay much attention to what he was doing with his shoes, and neither it did attract my interest (to me removing one's shoes is perfectly natural, and I actually also do it sometimes), but I think he applied some gel or some form of medicine on them, and he did look a bit jet-lagged (which is natural after a transatlantic flight). Perhaps he had to walk a lot in the chaotic roads of Athens in order to come to the venue and with the excessive Greek summer heat his feet got hurt (this also happens to me). If I remember correctly, he later put on his shoes again. In general, if you watch his blog, you will see that he always travels somewhere to speak about free software or related matters. Too much travel = too much walking = hurt feet. Maybe when he got to Yale he had walked really a lot and shoes became too uncomfortable so he may have had to remove them. This is perfectly natural. He literally gets hurt and exhausted to teach people about freedom (an extremely important matter) and people look whether he wears shoes or not (which is a totally unimportant matter). I wonder what people are going to do if a meteor is going to strike us dead with an 1-year warning period and a scientist presents to the world a method to save our planet. Will people choose to listen to him, or will they spend their time looking at his clothing and discussing about his shoes? I have heard what some people say about Einstein's hair. How ridiculous people are!
Did you look at the pictures? He's wearing a buttoned, collared shirt while most of the audience members are in T-shirts with graphics, un-tucked open flannel shirts, etc. This entire thread for people who have nothing better to do than to rail on RMS for no reason.
Those were the dress code police. I doubt they wuld have shown up if he'd dressed right.
THAT is the entire issue: He communicates powerfully that he does not care about other people.
Of course being barefoot is a requirement for being against DRM. The man didn't want his digits restricted.
It appears it is difficult to write about somebodies hero without reading comprehension problems creeping in.
And by your logic, wouldn't that make Linux "an illegal player"?
Linux does not ship with illegal code. Just like DECSS and copyrighted MP3's for Windows, this illegal software is downloaded later.
The truth shall set you free!
"I wonder what people are going to do if a meteor is going to strike us dead with an 1-year warning period and a scientist presents to the world a method to save our planet."
That's a very good question and I suspect that the scientist would wear shoes, knowing that it's an important issue he would not want to distract people from his main point. I really do think that in your hypothetical scenario many people would take the evidence less seriously if presented by someone without shoes. Not you or many of us here but I suspect you also don't tune in to Entertainment Tonight, eager to learn the latest about celerity X, Y or Z.
matter ie his talk, and
"matter, i.e., his talk, and", "matter - i.e., his talk - and", or "matter (i.e., his talk), and". The last choice is the best choice to make it consistent with the end of the sentence.
matter (ie clothes)
"matter (i.e., clothes)".
Also, "i.e." == "that is", whereas "e.g." == "for example", so the latter may have been more appropriate if the sentence was supposed to mean what I think that it does.
for your feet
waste of money
".".
suggests you need to try and use
"suggests that you need to try to use".
to what your saying
"you're".
on it's own
"its".
"disrespect" there
",".
*why* its supposed
"it's".
because thats what
"that's".
Think again, this guy survives on donations, if you donate $50 to his cause, would you prefer him to spend it on food, shelter or a bus ticket to a conference, or in a suit?
It's about priorities.
And if you say that he should buy the suit because it helps get the message across... well honestly anybody who can't get over his dress code in less than 10 seconds is too shallow to pay attention to his words. The suit would be a waste anyway.
But... the future refused to change.
Yes, I can understand someone who does not own a suit showing up without one. Or someone who only wears one for weddings/funerals. Etc.
But the no-shoes thing is definitely trying to make an in-your-face statement. I don't know and have never worked with anyone who does not wear shoes in an urban environment. Or for that matter, in a wilderness environment. The only place they go shoeless is in their own home, at the pool, and perhaps in their backyard or at a park.
So when someone decides to make a statement by what they wear, they should not be surprised when people react to the action as much as to whatever else was supposed to be discussed. It's really no different from Stallman agreeing to discus DRM, and instead showing up on stage and talking about the Dali Lama instead.
Then the scientist would be correct in keeping their silence and letting all lamers die in a giant meteor impact. Stupid civilisations have no right to exist in this universe.
I think that in that case, the distribution model is more important than the license.
I mean, 'people who receive the program in than modified form' can simply get it from the original author and skip the middleman. Problem solved. Period.
Monopolies and evil middeman in distribution channels of information are made obsolete by a bit of technology, like iTunes store and all its clones for music or Steam for games (and its lots of future clones, I hope). CVS, SVN and GIT repositories did the same for source code long ago.
In other words: The creation, distribution, and evolution of software enabled by the Internet is more important than the license, as long as that license is not closed source.
Public domain would be enough, as long as there's an Internet. I mean, BSD is like public domain except for some text that should be added and that's all.
(All this is of course invalidated by Software Patents. Evil Software Patents.)
We are Turing O-Machines. The Oracle is out there.
Obviously, RMS ought to be wearing well-maintained jeans and T-shirts, then.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
This issue cannot be explained away. This is what he communicates:
Mr. Stallman cares about DRM in software.
He doesn't care about the social rules of the group he is visiting.
He doesn't care about what people think concerning a vast range of other social issues having to do with behavior in public.
All I'm saying is that he pays a HUGE price for his areas of not caring. He wants to influence human culture. He wants to influence how people think. He is self-defeating in the way he does that.
You try to make everyone think all hippies are hackers.
Go smoke your pipe from your ass, you pot-headed cumtwaddle.
I imagine the dress code is vestigal. It's a very old organization, after all. Heck, in my state they still have laws against spitting in the company of women or children.
Reading the XKCD forums, apparently prior to the ninja incident someone actually sent RMS a katana (which, in the comic, he whips out to defend himself against them.) He didn't bring it to the debate with him, but someone did take some pictures of him holding it: http://www.gnu.org/people/jag/rms-with-katana/
Linus should have nunchucks. I just hope he keeps them ready so that he doesn't get caught unprepared, like Stallman.
This may seem off topic at first - bear with me.
Just this weekend I was staying in a hotel in Seattle (on business) with a very old friend of mine. We were hanging out in the lobby in the morning enjoying some coffee, and a man wearing a T-shirt, a kilt, and sneakers walked through the lobby. I pointed out the rather odd combo. My friend responded "You know, that's the nice thing about these times - people can dress however they want. In the 60's everyone here would have to be wearing a nice shirt and tie at very least. If someone walked in like that, it's likely the police would have been called because something was 'off' about him."
That just seems so wrong and foreign to me. Now, I wasn't alive in the 60's and couldn't vouch for the correctness of what he said, but if that's true we've come a long ways. Extrapolate, and you can see why I think it's really cool that RMS showed up barefoot in a T-shirt.
Um, I wore sweat pants and a sweat shirt during my wedding.
If you want to try an alternative DVD player, you can download one here;
http://geexbox.org/en/downloads.html
It installs nothing on your computer. Just boot the CD. After booting, it gives you the CD back. Now put in a DVD.. Enjoy. It has no tools for copying a DVD. Why is this player illegal? It breaks encryption to play the movie that you physicaly have, just like a legal player.
In their about page, they don't bother to mention that this player is illegal to use in the USA due to the inclusion of software to decode the Content Scrambling System CSS used on commercial DVD's. They also don't mention the legal problmes with the software as it skips playing the mandatory FBI warning as required by all licensed leagal players.
http://geexbox.org/en/start.html
In rebellion against the control, try an alternative player. You may like it.
The truth shall set you free!
The dress in and off its self was a statement as much as the speech. It's part of a consistent philosophy - money, culture, appearance, all that doesn't matter. Let's talk truth, and I'm interested. Instead of asking "Why would he draw attention to his clothing rather than his address?" we are supposed to be asking "Why are we talking about the clothing instead of the address?". The difference is taking responsibility before pointing the finger.
Is it so unlikely that he was intentionally drawing contrast? Perhaps instead of assuming that he's so incapable of normal social interaction that he didn't realize what he was doing we should first explore the idea that it may have been an intentional symbol/example of non-conformance to traditions and rules that have no practical or technical application.
In my country (India), it is respectful to remove shoes while entering house or temple or a memorial.
Aloha,
That is OK. The Hawaiians still appreciate him because he live ALOHA!
Yeah, his choir already has the sermon down pat. Unfortunately, he isn't attracting anyone else to church...
Nobody wants things to be "free as in speech" because they don't have shoes. Nobody wants things to be "free as in speech" because they don't have shirts. Certainly the same holds for ties.
If you didn't realize that your comment was inflammatory and indicated that RMS wanted things free because he was a penniless bum then it's your writing skills that lack, not the GP's reading comprehension skills.
What you wrote was slanted and intentionally so. Don't blame him for that.
To actually enforce the GPL rights.
*points at Virgin and the Virgin WebPlayer*
*points at the various parties who placed their code under the GPL*
"you are a bunch of gutless 'tards"
And your therefore willing to
"you're".
Or perhaps people would be more successful if they didn't waste so much money on expensive clothes...
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
your the moronic one
"You're".
Respectable/serious attire are necessary not to convince your audience that you are right, but to convince them that you are "normal" by everybody else's standards. It's a big part of the fight right now.. to show that crippled, proprietary code is not the norm and that it is possible to have a system based on free - or at least open - code in the "real world". To show that it's not an outrageous idea. And it doesn't help when your leaders are barefoot lunatics who dislike shampoo and don't cut their hair. That is how a Yale Academic speech makes into major Tech sites. Publicity.
The idea he started has made into billion dollar companies run by suits wearing $10k Italian stuff. They RELY on his idea. It doesn't matter if he wears shoes or not. They are running GNU software on their $100m server farms.
I have seen some article (I guess Forbes or CNET) showing 100 important figures in IT scene. It was like eccentric dressing show. There were even a cowboy guy.
Funny is someone made a career or wage with these peoples work/ideas sits in some office 9 to 5 sits there with his suit and critiques GNU Founder. A completely bureaucrat way of thinking.
Excellent point. Sums up this thread entirely. You made me smile and do a little nod toward the screen student to kung fu master styles the instant I read it.
ty for your contribution.
They RELY on his idea. It doesn't matter if he wears shoes or not. They are running GNU software on their $100m server farms.
They use his software, but they don't give a FUCK about his ideology. (Exemplified by many companies who use GNU and/or Linux software, yet try to subvert the GPL) Which one do you think RMS really cares about? I'd argue the latter. Therefore, if he really cared about getting through, he'd see them eye to eye and dress with a modicum of respect.
You win.
>I'm not saying Stallman should be sexy
so your saying Stallman isn't sexy?
Quite true - anyone who blatantly flouts societal norms is obviously an outsider whose interests are irrelevant to mainstream society, and hence can be safely ignored by the vast majority.
Or is that not what you meant? Because, I assure you, that's the filter a whole lot of people are using. And not entirely without reason.
Humans are social animals, whether you like it or not, and many of the silly social customs and mores we have were developed in order to make the massive, crowded society we have now run smoothly. Willfully ignoring our social nature is immensely selfish, as it actively undermines the glue that holds society together. A stable society is one that has feedback mechanisms to maintain and reinforce its glue, and marginalizing those who would undermine it is a likely one.
Now, you may argue that society is changing, that the current glue is being replaced, that what is is not what must be. I agree. But the fact is that how you present yourself matters, a great deal, and will continue to do so for the forseeable future. That's not so important for most people, but - like it or not - it's very important for public figures, of which Stallman is one.
Does that mean he's a liability because of his behaviour? I don't know enough to say. But, make no mistake, his behaviour absolutely influences how his message is perceived.
It certainly influenced you quite strongly. Just remember that those positive feelings from him being in your in-group are going to be negative feelings for many, many people who see him as part of an out-group. Would it be more effective to have the message delivered in a more neutral manner, the better to have it assessed on its own merits?
I hear a lot of people say this, and I just don't understand it. I find baggy jeans that have to be continuously hitched up ridiculously uncomfortable, but a well tailored suit is just about the most comfortable thing I can think of. If your tie is uncomfortable, then you've tied it too tight. Tied properly, the only thing a tie does, is hide the buttons on your shirt. If your shoes are uncomfortable, then you probably shouldn't have bought them. I don't believe I own any uncomfortable shoes. Sometimes I have to try on four or five pairs before I find a pair that both match the outfit and are comfortable... but it's stupid to buy something that hurts your feet.
Or maybe you like the way it looks and think it's comfortable. Those auditoriums are always painfully over air conditioned, and I think a jacket would be standard wear, just to keep warm.
And finally, there's also a matter of showing respect to your audience or hosts. If you're invited to a gathering where the invitation says "black tie", then it would be rude to show up in casual dress. Similarly, if you're introducing skateboarders at the X-Games, you can't expect to be taken seriously in a three-piece suit. Personally, if I were famous like RMS and giving a talk at a prestigious Ivy League university, I'd be wearing a suit -- or at least a tweed jacket with elbow patches.
I'm not sure why people today are so afraid of looking nice. I don't buy the argument that nice clothes aren't comfortable. You can get away with the argument that they're expensive, but anyone who is in a situation where nice clothing is merited can afford at least one outfit to match the event.
And now, I'm off to the lab... in jeans and a t-shirt, which are appropriate for crawling around on the floor after a bunch of robots.
That's absolutely possible. I think perhaps one of the key points here is simply that what he wore or did not wear matters. The overall effect may have been good, bad, mixed, or simply weird (a slashdot thread hijacked by discussing clothes??), but the fact of the matter is that an effect was effected.
Humans are inherently social; appearance is inherently important. There is no way to get away from that, and attempting to ignore it is its own powerful statement.
I have worn jeans and t-shirts to both of the occasions you mention. I assume the majority of those involved were of a similar mind, and felt that it was appropriate attire, as they were dressed "casually" as well. Not all of us were in shoes, for some of the events.
Am I a bad person for not dressing up? No. Did I show disrespect? No. Are you an ignorant twit for making a snap judgement? Maybe... What do you think?
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported License.
Uhm, no. I don't know anyone who wears a suit and tie, except on Sundays for church (and damn few of those). As for your statement that
Well, I don't know him personally, but he may not wear shoes if it is at all possible. It is perfectly normal *to me* to have people come to my home that wear sandals only because footwear is legally required while driving, and take them off as soon as they come inside, or once they get to my patio, or even before they leave their vehicle (gasp!). Similarly, it is perfectly normal *to me* to have people wear jeans, shorts, "cutoffs", skirts, slacks, polos, t-shirts, no shirt, socks, no socks, or any number of other "outrageous" attires. It is the accepted norm in my household not to be offended by attire unless it is unsafe or unsanitary (which even being completely naked may not be, depending upon conditions).It appears to me that you are being just as pig-headed as the people screaming that he needs to wear a suit. And before you go shouting that bare feet are unsanitary, please explain to us all how bare feet are somehow less clean than shoes? They go the same places, you know...
Oh, and one final rebuttal to your comments... you said
So now you're not only advocating a dress code, but hair style as well? Having "longer than typical" hair doesn't make him unclean. How does he smell? Oh, you don't know? Then don't make judgments based on someone's appearance. Just in case you were wondering, you don't have to use shampoo to be clean, and just because you're not clean-shaven and/or wearing a crewcut doesn't mean you smell bad.On the other hand, I don't know him, either, and I have yet to see any photos from the event (no, I haven't yet read the article, although I plan to. The minutes were cool, I'd love to see the YouTube Video of the entire event). All of this post was formed from my own reactions to your post.
--This post has been sanitized to remove personal attacks, other than those required to make my point.
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported License.
I've been trying, really trying. I can't stop myself from attacking you personally on this one.
... but I'm not likely to.
YOU (SMACK) ARE (SMACK) MISSING (SMACK) THE (SMACK) MESSAGE!
First of all, the important factor here is THE SPEECH. This discussion is bogging down on whether he was wearing socks, and was his T-shirt Hanes or Jersee? WHO CARES?!? IT'S NOT IMPORTANT, STFU ALREADY!
To be completely honest, I think anyone who flips out over his attire is too stupid to get the message he was trying to give them.
Secondly, it's not $40. I can get a polo *AND* a pair of sneakers for less than $15... Within walking distance... Of damn near anywhere I'm likely to be.
--
Understanding stupidity is kinda like cheering for silence.
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported License.
From the pictures i saw once I got around to reading the full article, I noticed that he was dressed in slacks and a tshirt. From the pictures I saw in the full article, I saw college students (gasp!) dressed in jeans and tshirts (GASP!)
Maybe you should check the stick in your ass before bitching about the splinter in my eye.
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported License.
"Too bad he doesn't care about his cause enough to project an aura of professionalism and courtesy. There are certain expectations when you're a GUEST speaker in a professional setting, an academic setting.
So you're saying a guy famous for that certain type of dress (such as never owning a suit), should come present his ideas at a lecture he's been invited to speak at.. while wearing a suit?
If I was in the audience and he had done that.. I would be disappointed.
Have you considered that speaking at Yale would be something special for you but just routine for him?
And maybe he's a little less conformist than you appear to be?
Cheers,
CC
He's referencing this: http://www.venganza.org/piratesarecool4.gif
From http://www.venganza.org/about/open-letter/. It was kind of a meme a few years ago.
There's "conformist" and there's "polite".
A handshake is an arbitrary convention, but who says "no I don't shake hands you sheep, what exactly is the purpose of a handshake?"
// MD_Update(&m,buf,j);
You'll be surprised how many people don't care about his looks, and instead care about the message.
Are you proud of being superficial? (Not directed at you personally. If you feel offended, so be it.)
I guess this makes you play in Stallman's league?
And people are as interested in hearing you as in hearing him?
Unless you're that other guy with the black turtleneck...
Cheers,
CC
No.
Indeed, and there's also "eager to please" and "insecure". Just a matter of nuance.
But back to RMS... By his dress code he establishes a hyerarchical relationship with his audience. He's telling them who's top dog.
It's a very old trick, but deliberate and effective. And, like his writing, wonderfully succint.
Cheers,
CC
Ghandi (yeah, that Ghandi) knew that dress codes were an instrument of control and power, and although he was perfectly capable to dress westernized clothes he consciously choose not to.
If you think that somebody that can understand the social implications of how software is licensed can't understand the implications of how he dresses, you are tremendously disingenuous, to say the least.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
I had a teacher (Electrical Systems I think he tried to teach us) that used to wear a suit, but clearly had been to a taco stand before the lecture (full of spots and grease), he also couldn't do a tie knot properly and his shoes were invariably dirty. To top it all he was often late when he showed up at all.
After him came a lecturer that wore impeccable casual clothing. He confessed he did not have a single neck tie on his wardrobe. He was always on time and in the very few occasions when he could not attend a lecture he would send an assistant (no mobile phones back then you young things) to apologize.
Oh yeah, I have rarely worn a suit all my life and that does not seem to have hindered me particularly and I am quite respected in my field, thank you very much.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
... is immoral. Somebody stood in the shoulders of others but then pretended all is his own effort.
In other words he became a fucking freeloader. Legal? Yes. Moral? No way. Any remediation to this (GPL) is a good thing.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
"If you think that somebody that can understand the social implications of how software is licensed can't understand the implications of how he dresses, you are tremendously disingenuous, to say the least."
Yes, I think that, and you think it, also. We have around all of us numerous situations in which someone was intelligent in one area, and foolish in another.
The French guy got a valuable lesson.