Comcast Targets Unlicensed Anime Torrenters

SailorSpork writes "According to a thread on the forums of AnimeSuki, a popular anime bittorent index site, Comcast has begun sending DCMA letters to customers downloading unlicensed fan-subtitled anime shows via bittorrent. By 'unlicensed', they mean that no english language company has the rights to it. The letters are claiming that the copyright holder or an authorized agent are making the infringement claims, though usually these requests are also sent to the site itself rather that individual downloaders. My question is have they really been in contact with Japanese anime companies, or is this another scare tactic by Comcast to try and reduce the bandwidth use of their heavier customers now that their previous tactics have come under legal fire?"

Comments

Why?

[Goldberg's Pants]

Haven't the anime companies pretty much said "It's okay, so long as it hasn't been licensed"? I remember the first season of Ghost in the Shell:SAC. When it got picked up for the US market, the company who owns it politely asked the fansub groups to stop. (And they did if I recall.)

Re:Why?

[Asmodai]

Thus far the Japanese animeka's and mangaka's have never protested. I have also not seen any such hints in the Japanese media. It only served to further their fanbase and potential market. Whenever a series became licensed in the US most groups fansubbing that series stopped.

Of course there's more people interested world-wide and it can be difficult to find it locally. (Not to mention some English translations are horrendous and the fansubbers are doing a very good job.)

Re:Why?

[Goldberg's Pants]

So unsurprisingly it appears Comcast are acting on behalf of other parties who have never actually complained, let alone asked them too Yet another classy Comcast move.

Just like the CRIA shutting down Demonoid, despite the fact that due to the levies we pay up here on media and players, it's been ruled multiples times by the courts that downloading for personal usage is legal. Also that uploading is legal, as obviously to download, someone has to upload.

The recording industry body still shut down the site, which was hosted in Canada, despite the fact that A) really all they SHOULD be allowed to do is demand the removal of music torrents, and B) torrents which, in the host country, were perfectly legal anyway.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Thus far the Japanese animeka's and mangaka's have never protested. I have also not seen any such hints in the Japanese media."

Not true. Japan has issued a formal statement to the US government asking it to take measures to prevent the illegal distribution of Japanese creative property.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2007-10-23/japan-asks-america-to-stop-illegal-net-releases-of-anime

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

> Thus far the Japanese animeka's and mangaka's have never protested.
But they did. http://www.animesuki.com/doc.php/legal/mediafactory.html

Re:Why?

[KDR_11k]

If I recall the DMCA letter correctly you have to assure under penalty of perjury that you are or represent the copyright holder.

Re:Why?

[Goldberg's Pants]

But that leads us down a murky path. If the companies that make the shows say it's okay, does the government have the right to say "Er, no, it isn't."?

Regardless, anyone who thinks this is bullshit, AC a "FUCK COMCAST" under this.

Re:Why?

[Ash Vince]

If I recall the DMCA letter correctly you have to assure under penalty of perjury that you are or represent the copyright holder. But does US law allow a company to be prosecuted for perjury? If not the individual can get out of it based on the fact that his employer told him something and he acted in good faith.

Re:Why?

[NervousNerd]

All I've got to say is that these guys are really pissing me off. If you hear about a car crashing into Comcast's headquater's it wasn't me.

Re:Why?

[sumdumass]

It doesn't necessarily have to be your employer to be acting on good faith. It could be someone else claiming an interest and you can be acting for them. However, good faith doesn't necessarily get you out of trouble.

Point is, if you don't know better then you cannot attest to the state of ownership so your complaint is false anyways. If I tell you that is mine, stop it from happening, and you file a DMCA take down, you better have a reason to believe I'm not lieing to you. Similarly, when you do this for a company, you are acting as an agent for that company so if it is something obvious, you and the company can be fined if not more trouble. Perjury is one of those crimes where you have to have some knowledge of your deception. Making a claim that you have no idea of can be part of the knowledge because you had no clue to the facts that you are claiming. so it would all depend on the facts associated with the greater reality of things.

Re:Why?

[Microlith]

Make no mistake, the Japanese -are- pissed because as far as they're concerned, fansubs devalue their product.

But you won't hear about issues with foreign licenses in the Japanese media. You'll hear about Japanese P2P users and programs like Winny and Share.

And any actual fan would know that fansubs are copyright violations anyway and that unfavorable reactions should be unsuprising and you should support the creators ANYWAY instead of bitching when they get annoyed with your running roughshod over their rights.

Re:Why?

[sumdumass]

It would depend on which government. In most western countries, copyright laws are there for the copyright owners/holders to control distribution of their content. So it only makes sense that if they say it is ok, then no the government cannot do anything about it. With the exception of some information being protected because of threats and so on. Manuals to kill your wife without being detected by the police might fall under that. So might instructions on how to build a nuclear bomb with common household materials (assuming it is possible).

Re:Why?

[SeaFox]

it's been ruled multiples times by the courts that downloading for personal usage is legal. Also that uploading is legal, as obviously to download, someone has to upload.

I'm not arguing with what Canadian law says, I just wanted to say that it really isn't that obvious that uploading would be legal based on the logic that for downloading to happen someone has to upload.

According to the DMCA, people are supposed to be able to make backup copies of media for personal use. But then, distributing tools to allow circumvention of encryption and copy protection measures is not allowed. Wouldn't it be rather... obvious that the distribution of these tools should be legal, since they are required for consumers to exercise their privilege to make personal copies?

Re:Why?

[Gideon Fubar]

That's one publisher, who are notably not included in this discussion. As you pointed out, Animesuki does not distribute them.

Re:Why?

[transiit]

More to the point, is the DMCA enforceable in Canada, as the comment leading into this point said was the context?

Re:Why?

[CommunistHamster]

Some anime are never licensed in english, so the only way to watch them is by fansub.

Re:Why?

[Golias]

Make no mistake, the Japanese -are- pissed because as far as they're concerned, fansubs devalue their product.

Says you.

1. I defy you to cite examples of Japanese anime houses (not US dub shops) objecting to the fansubs of unlicensed shows.

2. No US media company would ever have bought hard-to-categorize shows like Death Note, Nana or Prince of Tennis before the fansub community proved that there was a market for such shows among western viewers. Fansubs are basically free market research for the distributors.

3. The big money in US anime distribution comes from dubbing shows with English-speaking actors and putting it on cable TV. When a show is released to DVD as a subtitle-only set (such as season 2 of SuperGALS!, or the "Uncut" editions of Seasons 1 & 2 of Sailor Moon,) sales have been lackluster at best. Fansubs don't cut in to TV viewership numbers on Adult Swim. If anything, they boost ratings and DVD sales, because by the time, for example, Death Note hit cable TV last month, the show was one of the hottest word-of-mouth topics at anime conventions and on web forums for over a year. No amount of traditional marketing could have done for that show what a few dozen "L" and "Misa" cosplayers at each and every con last summer accomplished to get people curious about it.

Re:Why?

[Gideon Fubar]

Sure, in some countries.

In this case, however, the copyrights are explicitly held by the publishing companies. The Japanese government can ask the US government to do something about it.. but that doesn't mean that a private company can start sending c&d notices to people for copyrights they don't own..

Re:Why?

[Fourier404]

There's no way for an English-speaking fan to support the creator. They could buy the original Japanese version, but that would be utterly useless, and you can't expect them to do that. If it's one that's been licensed by an American company, only a small portion of the money, if any, will be sent to the creator, and the general consensus is that they'll get a worse product than that created by a fansub group. The usual argument is that the popularity of a series in the fansub community gets the American companies to buy a license, which gives millions to the creators, and this seems like a perfectly valid point.

Re:Why?

[Fourier404]

And if said car happened to be packed with a quarter ton of high explosives, it definitely wasn't me.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

The Canadian law specifically allows copying music, and the last time I checked, the common interpretation that 'downloading music is A-OK if you don't upload' was not yet court tested although I do believe it would pass. Instead, the existing court rulings were regarding obtaining account information from uncooperative ISPs.

Pretending it applies to things that are not music is foolhardy, and your assumption that "obviously someone has to upload for downloading to be okay" is fallacious, since (from memory) the law regards "the reproduction of musical recordings", and was intended to officially permit things like making personal mix tapes. Downloads were a fringe benefit, and before bittorrent, everyone prudent made sure to disable their uploads.

Re:Why?

[dotgain]

Your resistance only makes my penis harder!

Re:Why?

[Lonewolf666]

According to the DMCA, people are supposed to be able to make backup copies of media for personal use. But then, distributing tools to allow circumvention of encryption and copy protection measures is not allowed. Wouldn't it be rather... obvious that the distribution of these tools should be legal, since they are required for consumers to exercise their privilege to make personal copies?

It seems that Congress has neglected to consider all consequences of their legislation, presumably helped along by some lobbying from RIAA and similar groups. But there is something we can do against it:

Boycott copy-protected media. And a significant part of the customers seems to do it. In recent months, there have been some news that music industry execs consider dropping DRM so there must be some pressure from lack of sales.
Note that the CSS encryption on DVD is an exception here. It is both well established and thoroughly cracked (with DVD rippers containing decryption available from offshore companies like Slysoft), so it will probably stay around without really annoying most people anymore.

Re:Why?

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

Nabeshin says otherwise.

Also see: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2007-10-23/japan-asks-america-to-stop-illegal-net-releases-of-anime

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Totally untrue. The Japanese anime companies DO care about piracy a lot, partly because of economic concerns (valid or not) and partly because they want to retain control of their copyrighted material (for different reasons, like public image or just "creative" concerns). Their problem is the language barrier, and also not knowing whom to approach about stopping distribution ("who to sue", so to speak). Some companies and creators also disapprove of distribution of clips (like opening songs) and semi-fan-made content (like AMVs) as well, apparent from the Japanese copyright association JASRAC's crackdown on YouTube.

And fansubbers who stop when shows get licensed? Well, there is most often someone to pick up the slack (and not rarely just the same people under different pseudonyms).

Re:Why?

[KDR_11k]

No idea but I assume sending a letter with the words "under penalty of perjury" puts you under that penalty, no matter what other laws there are.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Have they copyrighted their material in America?

Re:why?

[marxz]

what? you meen like American TV does.... please that's truly low insult... I mean as bad as Japanese TV is at least the only thing only remotely as bad as "everybody loves raymond" is the dubbed version of "everybody loves raymond"

Re:Why?

[asc99c]

How do you figure? If I send a letter demanding you to do something, under penalty of treason if you fail to comply, would that also make it true? Perjury is the specific act of lying to the courts - lying to me is just lying no matter what I say. If the letter is asking for information destined for court filings, it is pretty reasonable to point out the consequences of lying.

Re:Why?

[E 99]

1. I defy you to cite examples of Japanese anime houses (not US dub shops) objecting to the fansubs of unlicensed shows.

If you follow the first link in TFA, it's the Japanese government that has been complaining -- specifically about the copying of anime on P2P networks.

Re:Why?

[zalas]

1. I defy you to cite examples of Japanese anime houses (not US dub shops) objecting to the fansubs of unlicensed shows.

http://www.animesuki.com/doc.php/legal/mediafactory.html

2. No US media company would ever have bought hard-to-categorize shows like Death Note, Nana or Prince of Tennis before the fansub community proved that there was a market for such shows among western viewers. Fansubs are basically free market research for the distributors.

Don't be silly and use examples like Death Note. Death Note was insanely popular in Japan and has been out in translated manga form in the US for a while now and NANA has also been available in manga form in the US as well. If you're going to use examples, at least mention Azumanga Daioh, which is more likely to have been licensed because of fansub popularity. Keep in mind that research from fansubs determine what people want to watch, and not necessarily what people want to pay money for.

3. The big money in US anime distribution comes from dubbing shows with English-speaking actors and putting it on cable TV. When a show is released to DVD as a subtitle-only set (such as season 2 of SuperGALS!, or the "Uncut" editions of Seasons 1 & 2 of Sailor Moon,) sales have been lackluster at best.

I think you might be confusing cause and effect here. Subtitle-only DVD releases are generally only done when they believe there would not be a good enough return on the dubbing. Thus, usually it's the relatively niche shows that get that treatment, instead of the lack of dubbing causing less people to buy it.

Re:Why?

[pv2b]

[...] it's been ruled multiples times by the courts that downloading for personal usage is legal. Also that uploading is legal, as obviously to download, someone has to upload.

Your logic is flawed.

What you're saying is akin to, "murder must be legal, since being murdered is legal, and for somebody to be murdered, somebody must be doing the murdering".

One possible rationale behind laws that say downloading is illegal while uploading isn't, is that there is no practical way for somebody who is merely using a network download can possibly know whether the copyright holder has authorised such distribution. For all you know, the downloads may be sanctioned.

However, when making a file available, you're expected to clear it with the copyright holder. On some level this makes sense, as long as you think along the lines of traditional producer->distributor->consumer lines, and expect normal people to be passive consumers.

The fact that the Internet doesn't actually universally work that way any more, however, has changed the balance. Everybody's uploading and downloading these days, often uploading and downloading the same file simultaneously.

To apply the same logic to modern peer to peer technology, you'd have to change the distinction from uploader and downloader, to a distinction between the person who ripped, encoded, and put the first copy online in the first place, and everybody else. That would effectively decriminalize peer to peer file sharing, although files would still enter the system illegally. Once they're in the system, they'd effectively be fair game though.

I'd prefer the changes to go a bit further myself. Non-commercial copyright infringement should be downright legalized. The copyright system was conceived in the age of the printing press being an instrument of power in the hands of relatively few people -- not a society where practically everybody has access to a global information and media exchange network -- an own personal printing press if you may.

Re:Why?

[ultranova]

And if said car happened to be packed with a quarter ton of high explosives, it definitely wasn't me.

And I know nothing about the tentacled sex fiends from beyond doing to Comcast execs what they've been doing to their customers. This isn't a spell to call such things: "Mato nousevi maan alta, lonkero lonkalta, perseenreikä niiden alla, kirkuna kuuluu kuutamolla."

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

1. I defy you to cite examples of Japanese anime houses (not US dub shops) objecting to the fansubs of unlicensed shows.

I'll take you up on that challenge. This should not be taken as a comprehensive list; I'm merely providing examples to disprove your implied claim:

Media Factory has requested takedown of their shows.

ODEX in Singapore is supported by several Japanese studios in their anti-infringement crackdown.

The idea that anime producers are totally sanguine about fansubs is nothing more than a pleasant fantasy.

Re:Why?

[Asmodai]

Wow, I totally missed that one. Mea culpa.

I just wonder how much of it is really asked for by the artists themselves.

Re:Why?

[DrLang21]

While I can't say for sure whether or not Comcast is acting on behalf of other parties, the Japanese anime industry is beginning to feel the pinch. Back in the days when fansubs were on VHS and trading required some exceptional effort, the industry didn't really feel much. But now that mass trading is easy, even those in Japan are beginning to make use of American made fansubs rather than buying the media in Japan. In addition, anime is being licensed much faster in America. Many shows coming out in Japan are licensed in American almost the same day as the pilot episode. I would not at all be surprised if Japanese companies are making complaints to Comcast.

Re:Why?

[wanderingknight]

Nice attempt at gaining pagehits for ANN, you idiot. Those were 3 lines in a 50-page statement touching a myriad of different issues.

Re:Why?

[sumdumass]

Well, if the foreign government contacts or contracts with the private company to send the DMCA notices or whatever, as long as that government isn't contradicting their copyright holders goals, then there shouldn't be anything stopping it. But then we are getting into an entire level of complexity that doesn't exist in what I understood the parent's question to be. Japan could use a private company as their agents abroad.

It would depend a lot on the law of both countries and how it is interpreted. If say Japan's law says that you need explicit permission to do anything with the copyright covered material, then it might be acceptable for the government of Japan to attempt to protect against infringements. I don't think this is the case in reality so I'm not even sure that the governments can do anything outside purpose laws that discourage infringement.

In either way, unless i'm missing something here, neither government can go against the wishes of the copyright holder and neither government can act as if they represent them unless something in law already exists or the copyright holder asks them to. Suppose a Japanese company complains to the government of Japan, then Japan can take steps as the agent of the copyright holder and contract with a (private)company that can effect the take down and protections of the laws in the foreign countries.

This is often done with private companies and the only difference might be that one party of the mutual interest ends up being a government of a country.

Re:Why?

[jank1887]

hmmmm... so, who's gonna sue first?

Re:Why?

[sumdumass]

Your forgetting that the letters we are talking about have specific legal meanings and are enforceable in some cases as if the court had made an order based on your testimony. These letters have a little more meaning then you just creating something and sending it out.

There are other letters that equal perjury when you fill something out falsely too. Forms and publication going to the IRS and so on. So when the law says so, then it has the full force of law just as if you were to lie to the courts specifically.

It also appears that you are missing who the Perjury is intended to. It is intended for the author of the letter not the recipient of it. You when filling out and sending the letter, are certifying that you are telling the truth.

And BTW, if you were to send a letter out saying under the penalty of treason or some other legal construct, you "could" be charged with misrepresenting yourself or the backing of a law. It changes from jurisdiction to jurisdiction but it can get you into a lot of trouble if you intentionally misrepresent legalities in order to force someone to do something.

Re:Why?

[AikonMGB]

I'm tired of people using the levy as an excuse to download; it is not a free ticket to perform copyright infringement!

Aikon-

Re:Why?

[madman101]

Irrelevant. The work is automatically copyrighted in the US. Registration has advantages once you sue, but is not required to protect the work from theft.

Re:Why?

[bryanp]

Whenever a series became licensed in the US most groups fansubbing that series stopped.

That used to be the case. More and more I've seen digisubbers whose attitude is "Yes, it's been licensed, but we don't want to wait until they put it out, so we're going to keep subbing/releasing/distributing." I wish I could say these were a tiny minority of subbers, but I don't think so anymore.

This hobby has changed quite a bit since the days when I and my friends would spend $75-$150 on an imported laserdisc and hook it up to an Amiga 500 with a genloc card and a script file to record a VHS fansub.

Re:Why?

[JoshNorton]

Nabeshin, this October for the most recent. () And someone else mentioned the MediaFactory brouhaha that brought out a lot of bravado at the time. There's two public examples right there.

Re:Why?

[orclevegam]

1. I defy you to cite examples of Japanese anime houses (not US dub shops) objecting to the fansubs of unlicensed shows.

If you follow the first link in TFA, it's the Japanese government that has been complaining -- specifically about the copying of anime on P2P networks.

Which is noticeably not a Japanses anime house, anymore than Comcast is a US dub shop.

Re:Why?

[kwandar]

"Just like the CRIA shutting down Demonoid, despite the fact that due to the levies we pay up here on media and players, it's been ruled multiples times by the courts that downloading for personal usage is legal. Also that uploading is legal, as obviously to download, someone has to upload."

Okay, let me correct this misunderstanding of the Copyright Act. If you look at Part VIII (Private Copying) and in particular Section 80, you will see that this only applies to sound recordings.

I don't want people to be under the misapprehension that they can download and upload whatever they like in Canada, legally. They can't. In fact, if uploading is "distribution" (that has yet to be categorically decided) you can't upload, and there are arguments that you can't even download due to technicalities (although I don't agree with that, but then again IANAL)

Re:Why?

[xelan]

I can cite once instance. The Japanese studio responsible for School Rumble sent a letter or letters (I can't recall anymore) asking for fan sub groups to stop for that particular title.

Re:Why?

[mpe]

But does US law allow a company to be prosecuted for perjury? If not the individual can get out of it based on the fact that his employer told him something and he acted in good faith.

Does any criminal law actually apply to "corporate people"? It's not as if there are too many situations involving a corporation even getting arrested...

Re:Why?

[mpe]

Perjury is the specific act of lying to the courts - lying to me is just lying no matter what I say. If the letter is asking for information destined for court filings, it is pretty reasonable to point out the consequences of lying.

However you don't need to involve a court in order to send a DMCA notice. Indeed there is typically no intention to involve a court at all. Since in order to do so requires actually producing evidence.

Re:Why?

[Curunir_wolf]

I'm tired of people using the levy as an excuse to download; it is not a free ticket to perform copyright infringement!

Well, what is it then? Obviously, it's not "free" - you're paying the levy. I can see how people could easily use the rationale of "well, I'm paying for something - I should get something for it", and proceed with downloading. I mean, what is the money supposed to be paying for?

Taxes (a levy is a tax) are typically used to support things like roads, police, health care (in some countries). There are a few roads that you drive where you are asked to pay a little more (toll roads, both government run and private), but they are not the norm. Typically we expect that if we are all compelled to pay for something then there is some personal or societal benefit to it. Taxes pay for schools for example, but not everyone paying those taxes have kids in school. Yet it's justified because having more people in society educated benefits everyone in that society. So what is the benefit of the music/copyright levy if you're not allowed to download? Maybe it benefits the copyright holders - but they are the ones *not* paying the tax. Is it like welfare? Well, welfare benefits society as a whole, since the indigent can eat and live without resorting to robbery and theft. But copyright holders are typically rich, not starving in the street.

Now, you could argue that the levy mitigates the loss of revenue due to illegal infringement. But all retailers have shoplifters and other criminals that cause losses. Sure the folks buying merchandise in the store are paying a little extra to make up for the shrinkage that the store incurs. But copyright holders have the same ability - to raise prices to cover any perceived losses. Why the levy on everyone? Why an extra tax on every consumer for a specific business, when other businesses subject to losses are not compensated?

The only conclusion possible is one of these:

1. The levy is in place so that citizens are provided with free digital content, or
2. The government is corrupt and officials have engaged in a quid-pro-quo with the entertainment industry to provide them with revenue that they have not earned.

I want to think that my government is doing The Right Thing, so ... thanks for the downloads!

Re:Why?

[green menace]

Your logic is flawed. What you're saying is akin to, "murder must be legal, since being murdered is legal, and for somebody to be murdered, somebody must be doing the murdering".

It isn't really the same. Being murdered makes you a victim. You aren't being victimised by downloading or uploading, you are participating. You might have an actual point if the person being murdered chose to participate.

Your logic is flawed.

Re:Why?

[FooAtWFU]

My understanding was it was more like this:

• you can't get criminal charges for copyright infringement unless you're doing it commercially for the $$$
• you won't get civil charges for copyright infringement from some company in Japan if you're way over here in America, it's not worth it
• therefore, if they've not licensed it to some American interest (who could sue you), you're probably in the clear

and by "in the clear" I mean "in the big foggy misty unmapped legal gray zone over there".

Re:Why?

[eganloo]

Yes and no, but specifically in the case of Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex, no. Some creators, such as Read or Die director Koji Masunari, openly supported or encouraged fans to view anime, whatever the means. However, Yoshiki Sakurai, a scriptwriter of Stand Alone Complex asked American fans to not download it without authorization while it was still being released in Japan. That's because America's Bandai Entertainment was involved in the production from the beginning; the anime was already "picked up" for the US market before it even aired in Japan. Some fansub groups ignored Sakurai's request, though, and continued distributing his series. Egan Loo Anime News Network

Re:Why?

[RicoX9]

I think your analogy is flawed. You seem to be looking at this from a US point of view.

Prior poster mentioned that the Canadian courts have validated the P2P filesharers multiple times. There's a reason. Every piece of storage media has a *IAA surcharge/tax/extortion built in. Regardless of what it is used for. That money goes straight to the pockets of the media companies/*IAA. The charge is there specifically because the media COULD be used to copy music/movies/etc - DESPITE what it actually gets used for. For years, the *IAA has gotten tons of money for media that never had a scrap of music/movies copied to it.

Basically, the agreement the government made (despite the protestations of its citizens) with the media companies is now turned on them because every time a Canadian buys digital media, there is an inherent contract that they already paid for whatever media they want to copy to it. Law of unintended consequences. The *IAA whines now because they want everyone to buy media twice, guaranteeing that they can have their cake, and eat it too. Tough nuts for you *IAA.

Re:Why?

[eganloo]

Actually, some anime creators have asked that unauthorized distribution of anime be stopped, regardless of its licensing status in North America. Some have gone on record on asking for this, such as Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex scriptwriter Yoshiki Sakurai, Excel Saga director Shinichi Watanabe, and Romeo x Juliet's Gonzo. On the other hand, some anime creators such as Read or Die director Koji Masunari have implied their consent, and most have not made a comment either way.

Re:Why?

[sjames]

What you're saying is akin to, "murder must be legal, since being murdered is legal, and for somebody to be murdered, somebody must be doing the murdering".

Simply NO. If you had the RIGHT to be murdered as in tax money had already been collected on your behalf to pay for your murder and by paying the tax (for example by buying a state sponsored T-shirt saying "I wanna be murdered") you indicated that you sincerely wish to exercise your right to be murdered, THEN your murder would have to be legal.

You see, the Canadian versions of the *IAA lobbied for a media tax to compensate them for people making copies of their works. The Canadian government said in effect "Fine, here it is". The courts then said "be careful what you ask for" and decided that the media tax constitutes a pre-paid right to make those copies. That is, the downloader has paid for the right to download and burn a copy. Since banning uploads would constructively deny the (already paid for) right to download, uploading must be legal.

Re:Why?

[arkanes]

If what's being sent is a true-blue DMCA takedown notice (and I haven't read TFA, so I don't know if it is), then it has specific legal weight - an ISP who gets such a notice has to take specific actions in response to it. Because of the power of these documents, anyone sending one has to certify, under penalty of perjury, that they are the copyright holder or an agent of the copyright holder. Sending a DMCA takedown notice without the correct legal authority is itself a crime under the DMCA. You can think of a DMCA as a special shortcut version of a court-ordered takedown - the law is granting copyright holders a certain authority normally reserved to the courts, but they have to have the same information and authority that would stand up in an actual court.

Re:Why?

[eganloo]

Actually, it was nine lines, but no matter. The original ANN article did say that this request on unauthorized anime distribution was part of a larger formal statement of requests on regulatory reform and competition policy. What issue do you have with the accuracy of the article?

Egan Loo
Anime News Network

Re:Why?

[arkanes]

Murder is illegal even if the person being murdered consents. The logic is fine.

Re:Why?

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

it's been ruled multiples times by the courts that downloading for personal usage is legal. Also that uploading is legal, as obviously to download, someone has to upload Finally - a chance to properly accuse someone of begging the question!

Re:Why?

[afedaken]

1. I defy you to cite examples of Japanese anime houses (not US dub shops) objecting to the fansubs of unlicensed shows.

http://www.animesuki.com/doc.php/legal/mediafactory.html>This wasn't good enough for you?

2. No US media company would ever have bought hard-to-categorize shows like Death Note, BR>

Ran in Jump. A no brainer, fansubs or not.

Nana

An Ai Yazawa shoujo manga, in a growing shojo market. Again, a no-brainer.

or Prince of Tennis

Well, okay, I can't explain this one. :-)

Actually, I'm lying. This is Jump too.

before the fansub community proved that there was a market for such shows among western viewers. Fansubs are basically free market research for the distributors.

But fansubs are not, and CANNOT replace proper market research. A fansub hit does NOT guarantee commercial success in the R1 market. You can't convert every fansub download into a sale. And there's no solid method of correlating downloads of a particular show to the sales of said show.

You don't know:

Who downloaded a fansub

What market/region the downloader is from

Whether that downloader is a pirate or a "good" fan

The only thing you really can do is estimate general interest. And that doesn't always translate into sales.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

FUCK COMCAST

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

3. The big money in US anime distribution comes from dubbing shows with English-speaking actors and putting it on cable TV. When a show is released to DVD as a subtitle-only set (such as season 2 of SuperGALS!, or the "Uncut" editions of Seasons 1 & 2 of Sailor Moon,) sales have been lackluster at best.

I think you might be confusing cause and effect here. Subtitle-only DVD releases are generally only done when they believe there would not be a good enough return on the dubbing. Thus, usually it's the relatively niche shows that get that treatment, instead of the lack of dubbing causing less people to buy it.

One of the owners of ADV, who goes to many conventions, when asked why they don't do sub only releases, has indicated that releases with dubs sell 10 times more than subs only.
While this doesn't contradict your point, this does show that the major market for anime DVDs is in-fact for the dubs, a market in which fansubs don't compete.

Re:Why?

[AikonMGB]

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that I think the blank-media levy is a good idea; I'm not particularly fond of it. Regardless of how I feel, though, that doesn't change what the levy does and does not allow as it currently stands.

Taxes pay for schools for example, but not everyone paying those taxes have kids in school. Yet it's justified because having more people in society educated benefits everyone in that society. So what is the benefit of the music/copyright levy if you're not allowed to download? Maybe it benefits the copyright holders - but they are the ones *not* paying the tax. Is it like welfare? Well, welfare benefits society as a whole, since the indigent can eat and live without resorting to robbery and theft. But copyright holders are typically rich, not starving in the street.

The supposed benefit of the levy is to reimburse any "loses" that copyright holders may incur due to their material being pirated. In an ideal world, the more money they make, the more music/movies/etc they are willing to create and release to the public. Artistic talent of any form is a valued cultural commodity, so the more we generate the better it is for society.

Now please keep in mind, this is what the levy is supposed to do. In my personal opinion, I agree with you with respect to your following statement, except for how you present it (see below):

Why the levy on everyone? Why an extra tax on every consumer for a specific business, when other businesses subject to losses are not compensated?

I don't think its fair that we should all have to pay the levy to compensate for these loses; however, in fact, we don't. This is where your labelling of the levy as a "tax" is misleading; it is not a tax like those that we pay for roads/health-care/etc, because not everyone has to pay it. If you don't want to pay the levy, don't by blank media that it applies to. In the case of CDs and DVDs, you can buy "data" versions to which there is no levy.

The only conclusion possible is one of these:

1. The levy is in place so that citizens are provided with free digital content, or
2. The government is corrupt and officials have engaged in a quid-pro-quo with the entertainment industry to provide them with revenue that they have not earned.

How do you figure that the entertainment industry is receiving revenue they haven't earned? I don't have the numbers to prove it one way or the other, but the principle behind the levy is to provide them with revenue that they would otherwise have received if not for content piracy. I propose to you a third possible conclusion:

1. The government initiated the levy in good faith that the beneficiary artists would give back to the community with more material. (Whether it is actually working or not is a debate I'm not prepared to get into right now; suffice to say both you and I think it doesn't, but I'm sure there are people that do).

These are not the "only" conclusions, there are many more not listed here. The two you present may be the only two you are willing to accept, but that does not mean either of them is correct. I am not a government insider, so I can't tell you whether the government was acting in good faith or is dealing under the table with the industry (I have my beliefs, but they are irrelevant here). But either way, the letter of the "law" still implies that copyright infringement is not legalized by the levy.

HOWEVER (and this is why I hate these things.. so complex), note that there is a difference between your "free downloads" and copyright infringement. In Canada, it is still legal to download copyrighted material as it is considered "making a copy for personal use." The analogy used in court (I don't have the judges name or a citation handy) is that copies for personal use will be legal as long as there are photocopiers in libraries. In Canada, copyright infringement comes into play when you start uploading copyrighted material.

Re:Why?

[Curunir_wolf]

How do you figure that the entertainment industry is receiving revenue they haven't earned? I don't have the numbers to prove it one way or the other, but the principle behind the levy is to provide them with revenue that they would otherwise have received if not for content piracy.

Because they're revenue comes from the sales of tickets and dvds and broadcast distributors, etc. That is what they earn. The levy provides them some additional revenue based on the sale figures for a loosely related commodity - money they didn't earn. To me, the availability of blank media often *increases* the amount of revenue they can make from the channels that actually pay for that content - that is, it increases demand for their product. So the levy paid to them is money that they did not earn, because it has nothing to do with the market forces that set prices for their product.

Re:Why?

[Sancho]

Maybe the artist thinks that translating the film would destroy the artistic value of the creation? Remember, copyright isn't just about money.

Re:Why?

[mrchaotica]

See, that's exactly why corporations have way too much power. I think if there was actually a threat of the corporate equivalent of jail (forced closure of the business for a period of time) and capital punishment (revoking of the corporate charter), corporations wouldn't be able to get away with a lot of what they do today.

Re:Why?

[LrdDimwit]

No. In fact, they've repeatedly said they hate it; company reps have also said in panels at cons, that *individual volumes* of a show whose episodes had previously seen fansubs released sold less well than later volumes of that same show that hadn't been fansubbed. I believe the specific example was Cat Girl Nuku Nuku, where 2 and 3 sold much better than 1 (which had been fansubbed). The point was further made that this is exactly the opposite of what you'd expect (you would expect people to start at the beginning).

They choose to ignore it, and no fansubber has ever gotten in serious trouble -- well, other than AnimeJunkies, who in their infinite wisdom told the US *cofinancer* of a show to "fuck off" (and a lot more) after a C&D, and all that happened to them was they had to disband. But they do NOT like fansubbing, and especially not the way it's done now. AnimeSuki doesn't list licensed anime, but it's readily available anywhere and everywhere. Even groups that drop shows when licensed will keep the old stuff up a lot of the time! That was NEVER the goal. Distribution was supposed to *stop* once a licensing annoncement was made. In the old days it did. Not anymore.

It's ignored because they can't figure out a way to crack down on it without alienating their fanbase, but as soon as they can they will. And the Japanese makers have started getting in on it. Gonzo has given Funimation broad license to go after any fansubbing of any of their shows. One other company issued a formal demand that no show of theirs be fansubbed ever (forget who).

Also, "not licensed" used to be simple. If it's not licensed in America, fansubs are distributed in America. But bittorrent is worldwide. Japanese people can download from AnimeSuki if they want to! But "Licensed in America" still seems to be the gold standard, which is shakier now than in years past. As I understand it, there's some evidence to indicate the one who sent the notices off is Odex, the Singapore licenseholder to a lot of the shows in question. They've been cracking down on things in Singapore.

Re:Why?

[Kuukai]

Thus far the Japanese animeka's and mangaka's have never protested. Wrong. Go to any anime convention with Japanese creator guest panels and ask them what they think of it. Either the translator will dodge the question, or they'll be pretty pissed at you. Media Factory, a publisher, and several Japanese TV stations (such as TV Nippon on Youtube I believe) have filed DMCA notices on subbed material. Ignorance isn't some sort of certification that they're okay with it.

Re:Why?

[pthor1231]

While I'm not sying it isn't possible, those two examples you cited were poor ones. The Media Factory issue is 3 years old now, and if you follow through with thinking about it, the reason why MFI started doing taken downs is because they were about to license the DVDs for English sub/dub. Low and behold, there are DVDs.

For the ODEX issue, the works in question were already licensed works.

Re:Why?

[Kuukai]

Don't be silly and use examples like Death Note. Death Note was insanely popular in Japan and has been out in translated manga form in the US for a while now and NANA has also been available in manga form in the US as well. If you're going to use examples, at least mention Azumanga Daioh, which is more likely to have been licensed because of fansub popularity. Keep in mind that research from fansubs determine what people want to watch, and not necessarily what people want to pay money for. I agree. Heck, Death Note is a key example of a show where the Japanese copyrightholders took it off of Youtube. Not exactly the posterchild of the "Japan loves fansubs!" movement...

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Didn't they also send a C&D to the subbers mid-way through?

Re:Why?

[green menace]

Murder is illegal even if the person being murdered consents. The logic is fine.

Sorry, I don't see how that makes the example fit the discussion. Comparing something where both parties have to consent to one where they don't doesn't work. The issue is that a transaction is legal for one party, and not for the other. The legality of murder is irrelevant to the person being murdered unless they consent. If they do consent, it is illegal for both parties. There is no point where it is legal for one and illegal for the other. Being murdered doesn't require making a choice or taking action.

I would gladly accept an example where a legal action of one party requires the illegal action of another party.

Re:Why?

[G00F]

It is because the dubs suck ass. I have seen fansub groups as a joke do a better job dubbing than those dupping houses.
So here is why as someone who likes anime doesn't buy them.

1. Their voice acting suck.
2. The voice match up sucks (voice doesn't match characters)
3. They change the meaning of the sentence. (such as a smart ass comment is now a "yes I aggree")
4. They censor things, and even dumb things too.
5. They charge way to much for the complete set. I am not paying $100 for any complete set, let alone one with 24-26 eps! No series should cost more than 50-60. (and thats for the long ass ones)

I wish those anime houses woudl contract or create their own companies do do it. Or heck, contract a fansub place, and let people buy it and download via bt.

Re:Why?

[Kuukai]

That too.

Re:Why?

[Haeleth]

How exactly does this apply to anime? I seriously doubt the Canadian recording industry pays a cent to the Japanese media companies whose intellectual property rights are being violated when you download a fansub.

Re:Why?

[Gideon Fubar]

Yeah, as you suspected, it's not the case in reality.. Japan, and especially the manga and anime producers have a long history of fair reuse of characters, up to a certain point. Doujin (Hobby) artists are not discouraged from recreating scenes featuring famous characters, rewriting them for alternate outcomes or favoring the viewpoints of different characters. This is a long standing tradition in Japan, where manga makes up ~70% of the publicly printed material.

In this case, Comcast are actually going against both legal and cultural traditions.

Re:Why?

[sumdumass]

It would be interesting to actually have a statement that could pinpoint comcast's percieved authority. Then maybe and official statement from the people involved could discredit them and legal actions be taken.

It isn't the customers fault that they purchased something comcast was offering with the intent of using it. I really don't know why consumer groups and even the government isn't breathing down their throats for every repeated attempt at denying what the customer has already paid for. It really isn't "us against them" as much as it is just wanting what was offered when they tricked us out of our money. I'm not a comcast customer, but I have a great deal of sympathy because there is no other alternative in some cases and comcast has been working behind the scenes to not give people the access that was advertised for quite a long time now.

Re:Why?

[Cookie3]

>Thus far the Japanese animeka's and mangaka's have never protested.

Unfortunately, this is wrong, and the opinions of Japan's "inaction" are entirely based on ignorance. On multiple occasions, Japanese companies, staff, creators, and spokespeople have asked fansubbers to stop distributing various anime titles. Off the top of my head, there are three notable instances of Japanese companies directly asking for the stop of unlicensed titles via the Internet.

1999:
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/1999-01-20/digital-anime-distribution-threatened-by-letter-from-sony
Sony asks Digital Anime Distribution to cease distribution of Rurouni Kenshin fansubs via their website. This was prior to Media Blaster's announcement of the North American rights to the series.

2002:
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2002-12-06/production-i.g-calls-for-moderation-in-fan-subbing
Yoshiki Sakurai (writer) speaking on Production IG's company website, asked English-speaking anime fans to buy licensed anime products instead of downloading fansubs.

2004:
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2004-12-09/media-factory-makes-request-to-stop-fansubbing
Media Factory demands AnimeSuki (a fansub bittorrent website) stop distributing their works. This was also sent to several of the groups that made the fansubs -- most of whom complied with the demands.

The anime industry's legal collaboration, J.A.I.L.E.D., also made one or two busts of major bootleg operations -- selling duplicated commercial tapes and fansubs -- in the 90s. I don't have sources for them, but you could probably find documentation of them via Usenet (rec.arts.anime or r.a.a.misc).

Re:Why?

[Gideon Fubar]

Indeed. I guess that makes it more likely that this was a deliberate attempt on their part.

I totally agree with the sympathetic sentiment.. It's completely unfair that some customers are stuck with one provider, with no alternatives for high speed internet access.. in fact, it's akin to a regional monopoly, and (i could be wrong, but I believe that) it's the exact reason that Bell/AT&T were originally split up. (of course, when they split a company like that geographically, they're just reducing one monopoly into several smaller monopolies..)

Re:Why?

[halycon404]

Few things. It is a tax, just like a road tax. At least it would be here in the US. There are two types of taxes; taxes on all goods and services(sales tax), and taxes you pay on specific goods(road tax that you pay for each gallon of gas you buy, on top of sales tax). The first is the pay to play tax, its there to keep general government services running so you can live happily. The second is a tax you only have to pay if you decide to use a particular service, its there to subsidize that specific service without charging the people who don't choose to use the service. There is a third type of tax in the US, but we won't go into it as its completely illegal for us to be charged it, even though we still pay it.

Next up, blank media means they are getting something for nothing, and did for years. If it is legal to copy a copyrighted work for personal use(copy onto a VHS tape from TV), without a blank media tax being instituted(as it was for awhile before the blank media tax came into being). Then it means every time someone bought a VHS tape or a cassette tape, people were paying for the privilege of doing something they were legally allowed to do without paying for in the first place. Ya, you can claim pirates selling illegal copies, but last I checked Canada wasn't a big pirate haven, back then it was hongkong and chinese knockoffs flooding the markets, not Canada. Which means the blank media tax was never payed on that media to begin with.

Is more, but my boss calls.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

"This hobby has changed quite a bit since the days when I and my friends would spend $75-$150 on an imported laserdisc and hook it up to an Amiga 500 with a genloc card and a script file to record a VHS fansub."

Damn. That has to be the most "1337" thing i've ever heard in my life

Re:Why?

[LunarCrisis]

You are evidently misinformed. Go read the Canadian Copyright Act, these exemptions only apply to music, not to any other form of digital media.

Of course, this is really dumb if you ask me. >_>

Re:Why?

[Golias]

That's because it became licensed mid-way through. Live-eviL and other responsible fansubbers did, indeed, stop translating it when it was picked up by a US company.

Re:Why?

[Golias]

Lost of Jump titles don't get picked up.

Ai Yazawa is far from a "no-brainer." Her previous work, "Paradise Kiss" got a US DVD release, but that series was a sequel to "Gokinjo Monogatari" a much larger (50-episode) and popular series in Japan which has still not been licensed by anybody.

Re:Why?

[KDR_11k]

Perjury is lying under oath or under penalty of perjury. While you cannot put others under penalty without their consent you declared yourself that you do this under penalty of perjury which is pretty much the same as giving an oath. I'm not sure there's any law preventing you from putting yourself under an oath when you choose to do so.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Media Factory, a Japanese distributor, has also sent cease-and-dessist letters directly to fansubbers through US lawyers.
Mangaka have also been involving themselves in stopping illegal distribution of their manga through websites inside Japan.

As the foreign anime market seems to be shrinking due to fansubbing, we may see Japanese companies taking a more aggressive stance against it.

Re:Why?

[mpe]

I think if there was actually a threat of the corporate equivalent of jail (forced closure of the business for a period of time) and capital punishment (revoking of the corporate charter), corporations wouldn't be able to get away with a lot of what they do today.

You'd also need to have the equivalent of "in custody awaiting trial" and "bail" as well as enforced shutdown of business whilst the a trial was in progress.

Re:Why?

[Golias]

Neither is a good example.

Nabeshin is just a guy, not a company... And in October he was at Oni-con, surrounded by dub actors who are very much down on all anime downloading.

And as somebody already pointed out, the MediaFactory take-downs was about anime that was becoming licensed.

And so was the case with Death Note.

Nobody on this forum has yet met my challenge of a Japanese company insisting on the take-down of fan-subs of unlicensed material.

Re:Why?

[_KiTA_]

Thus far the Japanese animeka's and mangaka's have never protested. I have also not seen any such hints in the Japanese media. It only served to further their fanbase and potential market. Whenever a series became licensed in the US most groups fansubbing that series stopped.

Never seen it in the Japanese media?

Here ya go.

Japan is waking up that there is an incredibly large following of their stuff online, and rather than say "Hey, look, a new market" they're doing the proud capitalist thing -- shooting themselves in the foot. Also, don't forget that, you know, Japanese IPs can access AnimeSuki and TokyoTosho and the like. There's nothing stopping them. If you do connect to a new, latest and greatest anime, or a DVD Rip, a good portion of the IPs will be from Japan. That is what is likely spurning this on.

Also, apparently one of the companies involved in the European takedown thing that's going on about this, Odex or somesuch, basically started sending nastygrams directly to users, saying they had to settle or else, and oh yeah, they owed Odex for sending the letters out too. Apparently it's some European thing, where a law firm can send out nastygrams for stuff they're not involved in or somesuch. (I've heard about similar things in Germany on Slashdot, anyway.)

What really gets me is the entitlement syndrome most of these Anime fans have. "Oh my GAWD, It's not licensed, that means it's copyright free in the US. GAWHD! How dare they get upset that we're BRINGING THEM NEW BUSINESS. They should be, like, thanking us."

Re:Why?

[arkanes]

I would gladly accept an example where a legal action of one party requires the illegal action of another party.

There's tons of them, although you can probably nitpick cases just as you can with with upload/download. One of the most obvious is backup rights under the DMCA, which are guaranteed, although it's prohibited to distribute the information or tools that you'd use to do this. Consensual sex with a minor (statutory rape, by definition, is consensual). In many places it's legal for teens to smoke, but it's illegal to distribute them to someone underage. Criminalizing the tools or processes required to do something instead of the action itself is an ancient political trick.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

I must call BS on your comments and the grand-parent post. This is exactly serving the CRIAA by keeping the actual facts of what is legal in a mist. I am sooo tired of hearing on the radio "It's illegal to download" when it's not, but it is NOT a clear cut case. Reading these kinds of comments on court decisions I wanted to be sure and write a paper on it, but I'm unable to do so because it is just not true.

Prior poster mentioned that the Canadian courts have validated the P2P file sharers multiple times.
Wow! So it's up to "Multiple Time" now? Have you (or the pgrand-parent post) even a single case number? Only one? Of course for "Multiple" to apply 3 or 4 would be nice.

The only reference I could find that everyone mention everywhere on the net is "BMG Canada v. John Doe 2005 FCA 193; [2005] F.C.J. No. 858 (CA) (QL)". A judge stating that an anonymous name, sharing 'something' (that may or may not be related to the file name) on a computer (IP), at a specific date and time is NOT enough for a judge to force an ISP to break a client's right to privacy.

This was held by many as a "right to download". It does not. There is a lot of way around this that could let a judge to force an ISP to reveal a clients name in the future.

NOW to clarify things, the Canadian Copyright Act (http://lois.justice.gc.ca/en/showtdm/cs/C-42) is clear (for a law), we can make a copy for personal use, and this was mentioned by the judge in the previously mentioned court decision: "the downloading of a song for personal use does not amount to infringement", so downloading a 'copy' from the Internet (for personal use) is legal in Canada.

BUT the Act is also clear, distributing without the artists permission is illegal. Making a copy for you is NOT distribution, but sharing a file on a computer is distribution (look at Apple distribution model, they dont e-mail it, they make it available after payment); but this has NEVER been to court yet so perhaps their is ways around that too. Unfortunatly this current state of affairs creates a world of lechers, but that is where we currently stand in Canada.

You are certainly right about blank levy; according to some legal experts the Blank Media Levy does legitimating downloading (even more), but it does not need to be!

On final thing: Every piece of storage media has a *IAA surcharge/tax/extortion built in. The "Blank Media Levy" only applies to blank CD (CD-R/W) and to some MP3 players. It does NOT apply to blank DVD's, or Flash cards (the 2 media I use for my MP3) or USB keys, hard drives, and so on.

This rant being done, IANAL, and I download once or twice a week based on recommendations. I buy about 10% of these since I like about 10% of these. I spent so much $$$ as a teen on crappy music because of a single song, I love my current system.

Re:Why?

[JoshNorton]

No, the MediaFactory request was for all their works, not just licensed ones. In any case, even on the list AnimeSuki provided for shows that were being subbed at the time, there's at least one that hasn't been licensed as yet, and not all of the ones on the list were licensed at the time of the notice.

Also worth noting that in the recent GONZO/FUNimation notices for Romeo X Juliet:
"In the letter that we have received, it is explicitly said that GDH K.K. has authorized FUNimation Entertainment to enforce their rights, therefore do not read this as an implicit announcement of FUNimation Entertainment's licensing of the said property. This is merely one company acting as a legal representative of another."

So, the first still stands, and there's at least one backup case. (And I know you're going to naysay it on the grounds that Funi's involved - they're acting as local reps, not as a licensor as yet, so the "dubhouse" label isn't really applicable for this one.)

Re:Why?

[JoshNorton]

I wish those anime houses woudl contract or create their own companies do do it.

Like, oh, Bandai Visual? If you're whining about cost now, you'll be bitching up a lovely little storm with their releases. Good quality, and no dub for you to have to pay for, but... You'll be paying mighty hearty for 'em.

Or are you thinking of Toei's releases? If not, I don't blame you - I tried to forget those as well.

(At least Kadokawa's releases (through intermediaries, you'll note) have been pretty good with both quality and cost. So there's one out of three.)

Re:Why?

[NervousNerd]

Does Comcast really sell your phone number to telemarketers? My friend has Comcast Digital Voice (Shame on him!) and he said it might be in the agreement. I don't put it past them to do crap like that.

Re:Why?

[DiamondMX]

The foreign anime market is not 'shrinking' due to fansubbing. One of the heads of ADV said at Amecon '05 that free fansubs are good for the industry, so long as the fans are willing to buy later. The free fansubs allow people to find anime series, and thusly increase the number of people who have seen anime, then they become paying customers. What's more, the companies involved watch the market to see what's being shared - then they licence the content that the fans want. The only 'downside' is that japanese companies also watch the sharers, and if they find out a series is surprisingly popular (Naruto for example) they then actually charge based on how much the fans want it, and this can on occassion cause the foreign companies to be unable to purchase a licence. But that's only because they're asking for what it's worth, supply and demand, and thusly it's fair.

Re:Why?

[wanderingknight]

I have a problem with ANN both in its attitude towards the general fanbase and its stupid attempts at sensationalist articles such as that one, which are generated in order to stir the fans into a frenzy, pushing them towards clicking the ANN homepage and generating more hits for you, which means more ad revenue. I can't argue with the fact that the lines were there, but the point is the way you guys presented the issue made it all the more sensationalist. In the end, it was no big deal... did you notice any kind of change in the attitude of Japanese distributing companies or animation studios?

PD: Before you mention this particular conflict, it has already been confirmed as BayTSP, a company contracted by Odex, screwing up big time by sending C&D letters to people outside Singapore (which wasn't Odex's intention).

Re:Why?

[afedaken]

was a sequel to "Gokinjo Monogatari" a much larger (50-episode) And that 50 episode count would be why it didn't get picked up. That's a pretty big investment for something that you couldn't dream of getting broadcast. Para-kiss at 13 eps was a much easier sell.

Re:Why?

[eganloo]

Which part of the article's presentation was sensationalist? If anything, it reported the same details that was reported in Japanese anime press.

One reason you haven't seen a change in attitude is that the attitude has been in the Japanese anime distribution companies and studios for a while, before the Japanese government submitted this request. See these examples:

1999:
Sony

2002:
Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex scriptwriter Yoshiki Sakurai

2004:
Media Factory

2007:
Gonzo

2007:
Excel Saga director Shinichi Watanabe

There are other examples of this prevailing attitude such as the Japanese copyright holders' attempt to remove Death Note anime from YouTube. It's not a universally-held attitude (look up Read or Die director Koji Masunari's comments in 2002), but it's a long-standing attitude.

Egan Loo
Anime News Network

Re:Why?

[UserGoogol]

And any actual fan would know that fansubs are copyright violations anyway and that unfavorable reactions should be unsuprising and you should support the creators ANYWAY instead of bitching when they get annoyed with your running roughshod over their rights.

That's not what being a fan is. A fan is merely someone who consumes a certain good and likes it quite a bit. It does not mean that you feel any obligation to help the creators, any more than a gourmand should feel an obligation to support the agriculture industry. Fans are people who draw rape-porn of childrens' tv show characters. Fans are people who mail death threats to the creator for killing off characters. Fans are people who HAN SHOT FIRST, DAMN IT!

This is not entirely a bad thing. Of course, creators should not be fucked over completely (in that if they were completely screwed over, either there would be nothing to enjoy in the first place, or they would be slaves) but there is a give and take. The sycophantic attitude of "true fans" is pointlessly self-destructive. Why should you let people control your life just because they produce something you like? Information wants to be free, creators would rather it not be, they both make good points.

Anime is porn..

[Another AC]

And I don't just mean like "hentai" anime that is ACTUALLY porn.

I work for a webhost, and it's weird.. other than porn, there's NOTHING like (even just regular) anime that uses so much bandwidth and disk on the Internet.

I understand why Comcast would go after this, and I doubt they really have any complaints from the copyright holders.

But really.. WHAT is the obsession people?

Re:Anime is porn..

[Carbon016]

Some (possible) reasons:

- Series' length is small enough to let people that don't like sitting around for days on torrents download them, yet large enough to cause a impact
- Large fansubbing community, some of which compete (so a lot of different versions of the same thing floating around)
- Community that rabidly encourages watching new shows, partially because a lot of anime is so similar, and again, partially because of the short series length of each
- Otaku have the time and devotion to put into managing daily torrents/downloads
- Generality of the genre - it's like saying "there's a lot of people that watch sitcoms"
- There are a lot of nerds on the Internet, period!

I don't care for most anime (most of it seems to be robots, ninjas, and loli) but the people that do are very devoted to the genre. I'm not surprised that it would account for a lot of traffic.

Re:Anime is porn..

[Anonymous Coward]

I watched a few anime but never really became hooked -- but I can see why it's popular compared to American cartoons: quality short story series, characters actually die, a more attractive and sympathetic style of drawing than marvel or southpark, all types of genres that cartoons couldn't possibly touch.

If you ever went in a comic book store - you kind of see everybody pushing the same silly crap geared to little boys it's almost embarassing and I personally find the drawing style ugly. I guess to me this juvenile mentality to such a potentially wonderful medium is most embodied by crap like this.

To answer your question, I think that much that Hollywood offers is same old, same old (how many remakes of movies from the 50s-80s have they made lately) usually because it's playing safe and anime is relatively new and edgy, at least against the American mainstream -- and because the latest movies and episodes are in Japan -- it has to be downloaded, usually subbed by some local group.

It is also be popular among the same generation who also download porn (and never got it any other way) so the internet is just a natural delivery vehicle to them for something that isn't too easy to get locally offline.

Re:Anime is porn..

[wizardforce]

Well considering a normal anime episode is over 200 megs uncompressed and that most anime isn't Hentai, you really don't have a point here other than to troll.

Re:Anime is porn..

[FiniteElementalist]

Add into that the fact that the internet is the only avenue for getting these shows in a translated format without having to wait for X years if licensed, or forever if not licensed. Standard domestic shows you can just watch it on regular TV or set up a DVR.

Re:Anime is porn..

[dosius]

You know, this brings up a point I said sometime earlier: The cable companies could make a killing offering a Japanese television package with TV-Tokyo and TV-Asahi. (E.G. I suggested it to Time Warner, my cable provider.)

Why?

TV-Tokyo has most of the popular anime, iirc.

TV-Asahi has Super Sentai and Kamen Rider.

Just about all the shit that gets torrented comes from these two stations, iirc.

-uso.

Re:Anime is porn..

[Zorque]

If you'd actually read the comment at all you'd realize he was saying it's like porn in that it uses so much bandwidth and is so widely distributed. So I guess your comment is a troll.

Re:Anime is porn..

[Khyber]

What's the obsession? Take Rule 34 of the Internet. That rule applies outside of the internet, to the anime world. Except you can find more than porn. You get loads of polar opposites and stuff that wouldn't DARE air on TV here in the USA. For example. Dokuro-chan, the Club to Death Angel. Holy hell, are you in for it. That storyline will drop your jaw to the floor with it's near-pedophile intent. Then take Hajime no Ippo. That particular storyline shows the rise of a champion in a boxing ring, from a total pussy to a hardcore ring killer, and you get the emotional thrill as part of the ride.

One thing anime does well at is conveying emotion. You can feel what they're wanting to provoke, the intent. Dokuro-chan, despite it's nature, is a pure comedy. Wanton, bloody, but still a comedy, and you will laugh more than likely if you've got a flexible mind. Hajime no Ippo will potentially have your heart pumping rapidly. You don't get into any big fights and thrills for awhile, but they're keeping it realistic.

If you can't see the appeal, perhaps you're not seeing the right material?

Re:Anime is porn..

[sakusha]

Just get a dish. Last time I checked, DirecTV offered TV-Japan, but you had to get the DirecTV Plus system, which has a dual-receiver dish, or else you needed two dishes.

Re:Anime is porn..

[someone1234]

If comcast isn't a copyright holder and they were not asked by any copyright holders, then they have to shut up if they offered unlimited bandwidth.
Even when they didn't offer unlimited bandwidth, they shouldn't abuse the DMCA.
This has nothing to do with the DMCA.
And why do you care if it is porn or not porn, for Comcast it is just series of bits they are obliged to transfer.

Re:Anime is porn..

[wizardforce]

ya, I wrote that post too soon although I still think he was being a bit of a troll here. By his logic, all large data files would be targeted not just anime. You know like youtube, metacafe, google video, WOW patches, live cds etc... but it's not, it's specific to anime, not just every other video file that probably also requires a lot of data transfer too.

Re:Anime is porn..

[Nullav]

Just about all the shit that gets torrented comes from these two stations, iirc.

Of course, not everyone speaks Japanese, subbing takes time and money (at least without the current, not-so-legal method of having tons of independent groups doing it for fun and recognition), and even then, reading subtitles is something a lot of people don't want to do. There's just no market for it.

Re:Anime is porn..

[Golias]

Generality of the genre - it's like saying "there's a lot of people that watch sitcoms"

Actually, I'd say that it would be more like somebody saying, "lots of people are into stage plays", or "there sure are a lot of people who read books."

Bottom line: Anime is a medium for storytelling, not a genre.

There are certain types of stories which are popular on Japanese TV which haven't caught on nearly as much here ("mecha" sci-fi, early teen romance, ghost stories, etc.), but for every show like "RaXephon" (a giant-robot show with strictly nerd-only appeal), I can name a show like "Nana", which plays like a very typical romantic drama, or "Sailor Moon", which bears striking similarities to the US hit TV series, "Buffy the Vampire Slayer."

And what's wrong with something that appeals only to nerds, anyway? There are a LOT of nerds in the world.

Re:Anime is porn..

[stonedcat]

Then of course you just have to know and be able to properly translate Japanese on the spot in your mind or later after you record it...

No thank you, I'd much rather just watch after having been subbed so I don't have to sit there and ruin my viewing experience rewinding when I have to double check what I just heard.

Re:Anime is porn..

[zakezuke]

And I don't just mean like "hentai" anime that is ACTUALLY porn. From my understanding hentai is hardcore, really hardcore. I don't have a taste for it, esp tentacle sex.

Anime in general is not porn. Yakitate Japan for example. It centers around the idea of "Furansupan" (French Bread), "doitsupan" (German rye-based bread), "itariapan" (Italian bread), all exist. So a boy blessed with solar hands perfect for kneading bread decides to create a bread for the Japanese people, a Ja-pan.

This is something not likely to be licensed in the US.

Re:Anime is porn..

[dosius]

I live in a tower, I don't think a dish is an option here. Otherwise, there's no fucking way I'd pay $70 a month for TWC when I could get DTV for less than that.

But you said "TV-Japan", not "TV-Tokyo" - I mentioned TV-Tokyo and TV-Asahi intentionally, as those are the specific networks that carry practically anything I would watch.

-uso.

Re:Anime is porn..

[jamar0303]

You're comparing Sailor Moon and Buffy with a straight face? Do tell.

Re:Anime is porn..

[SCPRedMage]

Actually, you're missing the point. He called all anime "porn" not because it's actually pornographic, but because it's such a popular bandwidth hog.

Re:Anime is porn..

[Anonymous Coward]

Won't somebody think of the pansexuals?

Re:Anime is porn..

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, some (eg Bible Black) has been licensed and DUBBED for release in the US.

And not all is hardcore, although the hardcore stuff is some of the most popular, there exists an enormous variety, there's certainly softer stuff out there, and even romantic material (eg First Night - although First Night is a questionable example because it has been claimed to be a serious artistic work).

Posting AC for obvious reasons.

Re:Anime is porn..

[toddvj]

It's funny how the author speculates: Is comcast doing this? But everyone reads it as: Comcast is doing this. I'd wager that some company thinks it owns the rights to these movies, contacted Comcast with the IPs of the people that were downloading, and Comcast sent the downloaders a notice. I really think this is more a case of Comcast covering their ass than actaully trying to get people to stop downloading.

Re:Anime is porn..

[geminidomino]

(Not orignal poster)

You can't deny that anime err... 'inspired' Whedon at least a bit. Just look at River's introduction in Firefly: the scene is lifted straight from Melfina's debut on Outlaw Star.

Re:Anime is porn..

[rworne]

We had TV-Japan, and while it was really neat to watch Kohaku on New-Year's, you need to remember this is an NHK feed. Lots of drama, educational, news and cultural programming - none of the anime the typical fan would desire.

Re:Anime is porn..

[Dachannien]

One, you can do things in animation that you can't do in live action without a budget a hundred times as large. Two, the Japanese tend to take on topics that American television won't touch with a ten meter cattleprod (hence great series like GitS:SAC being relegated to late night on Cartoon Network/Adult Swim once or twice a week). And three, a lot of anime isn't sold in the US, meaning that the only way to get it here is over the Intarweb.

Add those three things up and you get anime fans downloading and storing a lot of their favorite movies and series because it's the only way to get their fix.

Re:Anime is porn..

[Anonymous Coward]

If you think tentacle rape is "really hardcore", you need to get out more.

Re:Anime is porn..

[sakusha]

Then of course you just have to know and be able to properly translate Japanese on the spot in your mind or later after you record it...

Ah, I see, you don't actually understand the Japanese language. Someone who isn't fluent has to mentally translate the language in their head, they can never keep up with the spoken words. But people who are fluent (like me) just call what we do "listening."

Let me explain it to you simply, in deference to your mental abilities:

1 hour spent studying a Japanese textbook: improved language skills (in both Japanese, and incredibly, your native language too), increased mental sharpness, and the development of new mental skills you never had before.

1 hour spent watching anime: mind rot.

I saw this time and time again in college. All the Japanese language students who were into anime were hopeless. They were always unprepared in class, because homework ate into their valuable anime-watching time. None of them ever attained fluency. Most of them dropped out after 1st year.

Maybe you should shut off your TV and do something useful with your mind.

Re:Anime is porn..

[Golias]

You're comparing Sailor Moon and Buffy with a straight face? Do tell.

A girl who is blossoming into puberty discovers she is a person of destiny with super powers. Sound familiar?

As the series begins, there's a boy who really likes her who she only regards as a friend. Sound familiar?

Another boy, who is older than her and is mysteriously enigmatic at first about which side he is on, ends up being her boyfriend. Sound familiar?

He turns evil for a while. Sound familiar?

Two of her friends (Sailors Uranus & Neptune) are a lesbian couple. Sound familiar?

In season 2 of Sailor Moon, she mysteriously gets a "sister" who is not, in fact, her sister, but everybody magically believes that she is, even to the point of having artificial memories of the new sister growing up. Sound familiar?

I could go on. And on. And on.

At its core, "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" is essentially a "magical girl" Japanese manga story, right down to feminist girl-power memes and the obvious coming-of-age metaphors. The only real difference is that it's performed by live actors.

And I'm not saying that to criticize it either. One of the reasons Buffy was such a great show was because it was drawing from such a deep well.

what is this anime thing ?

[jacquesm]

I never really got it what the draw of anime is, can someone please enlighten me ?

http://rndpic.com/ a total waste of time :)

Re:what is this anime thing ?

[piojo]

I never really got it what the draw of anime is, can someone please enlighten me ? One advantage of anime over traditional TV is that (for most series) the story continues between episodes, and this can allow for a more intricate plot. (Of course, in some animes, each episode stands alone, and some TV shows have a plot line that continues throughout a season.)

Other than that, I'm not sure what the pull is. I know that most of it is made for adults, so you can't really compare a lot of it to kids' shows. Maybe part of it is selection--there's a whole lot of anime out there. Maybe I just don't like the sitcoms and reality TV shows that are on TV, nowadays. It's hard to say.

Re:what is this anime thing ?

[SeekerDarksteel]

There's two big draws I think. First off, look at the success of serialized shows like Heroes and Lost. Shows with ongoing plot lines, rather than completely episodic sit-coms and dramas like CSI. Rather than being the exception, shows with a single overarching plot line planned from the start of the series (or even earlier in the case of an anime based on a manga) are the norm in most genres. So you can have development, a real crisis, and a conclusion in 13 or 26 episodes. Compared to most american shows whose primary goal is to stay on the air as long as possible, anime provides a better storytelling experience.

Secondly, animated shows can tackle any subject matter. You don't need block buster CGI effects since everything is animated anyway. So anime shows can feature sci-fi, fantasy, or ridiculous action themes much more easily than an american tv show can.

There are some people who like it because it's Japanese and exotic and weird, but all in all I don't think that's the primary reason. It's simply that the animated medium allows more flexibility and creativity than live action, but is stigmatized in america as being childish.

Re:what is this anime thing ?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a bit too broad to just define quickly. Anime is any animated TV-show, movie or direct-to-video (So called OVA or Original Video Animation) production from Japan. Most of it is junk and if you just randomly sample it'll take a long time before you hit on something good.

I recommend checking out Roujin Z, Perfect Blue, Golgo 13 and anything by Hayao Miyazaki, but that's hardly representative of Anime as a whole.

Read up on what you might like before (and if) you try to watch an entire series (as opposed to movies that are far shorter and easier to watch), otherwise you probably won't get through it without losing interest.

Re:what is this anime thing ?

[neostorm]

They're just cartoons from Japan. It's popular because of it's availability and cultural appeal, that's about it.

Re:what is this anime thing ?

[Deanalator]

Ya, I never really understood the people who know everything about every anime. I first got into Japanese movies because for the first time, I was unable to figure out the ending based on the first 10 minutes of the movie. That does eventually go away though as you read a bit into the history etc.

Japanese media is just like any other media. Some is good, but most of it is crap. Japan just has a pretty rich culture to draw from. The music sucks (Hide is the only artist from the area that I can stand), but the tv and movies are pretty good.

One strange thing that I noticed though is that I listen to music and watch movies from all over the world, but Japan has been the only non-english country that has ever produced a TV show that I find enjoyable. I have actively looked for (and found) TV shows from other east asian and european countries, but never found anything that I could get into.

Re:what is this anime thing ?

[wizardforce]

-ongoing storylines
-many of the plots are based in part on japanese legend and myth
-extensive use of metaphor and symbolism
-it's not like cartoons here which are mainly for kids, a lot of anime is geared toward older age groups and tackles more difficult/mature topics
-science fiction and fantasy brought to life through animation
-a great way to test out your understanding of the japanese language if you watch the original non-fan subed versions
-anime reflects japanese culture to some extent just like our own entertainment is molded by current events/culture
-a lot of really good story lines that actually are worth watching and draw you into the story.
-there are *a lot* of different genres and stories, if you find yourself bored with a certain anime series you can switch to another easily
-there's a big community behind anime and manga- lots of fan-fiction and what not that explores the story further

Re:what is this anime thing ?

[SetupWeasel]

For me anime is just an available source for more quality entertainment. I'm so desensitized to most entertainment that I dislike most of it now. So I look to other cultures to find things that are fresh to me. Anime seems to take a little more risk than American television so it keeps my attention.

The people that are truly obsessive only make it an easy outlet for me.

Re:what is this anime thing ?

[zakezuke]

I never really got it what the draw of anime is, can someone please enlighten me ? Plot, character development, basically anime tends to be quality entertainment. They are not like american cartoons which AFAIK are still affected by the McCarthy era standards. Anime tends to stand on it's own as well as much life action television. It's hard to explain, and I never fully understood why anime is taken so seriously by the creators. I have always thought of it like this, japan is relatively small country, and that being so I *think* they resort to anime as it requires less surface area to create.

But if it's not your bag, it's not your bag. If you want to give it a fair chance, The ADV re-dub of Macross is actually really good. This is not the American Dub of Robotech.

Re:what is this anime thing ?

[QuickSilver_999]

Hmm... Why do I watch anime? That's a good question. Several reasons that I can think of off the top of my head are:

1) It's not the standard US crap that's all pointed at the lowest common denominator. Most US shows are so blatantly dumbed down that it's absolutely pathetic. Anything that strikes of being intelligent (and isn't a medical or criminal drama) usually ends up taken off the air in a season.

2) It gives a different perspective on life sometimes. The characters are of course larger than life and more extreme than reality usually is, but some of the differences in how Asians and Westerners perceive life is fascinating.

3) Anime doesn't need a $100 million dollar budget to put out a good solid high quality show.

4) Good anime is timeless. Just borrowed some old 80s anime from a friend, and it's just as irrelevant today as it was then. Still fun to watch though.

5) I don't have to put up with some annoying fluff head that thinks their opinion suddenly matters because they play a character on TV.

6) I don't have to put up with laugh tracks.

7) Voice actors on anime don't get paid a million dollars an episode like some American "actors."

8) I was a fan of Nagel http://www.patricknagel.com/ and Olivia De Bernardis http://www.eolivia.com/ so... The fan service can be fun... :)

9) Different mythos and cultures can really make a show interesting to me even if I think the premise is kind of dumb.

10) Did I mention no fluff headed "actors" that couldn't make me believe they were on fire if I doused them with gasoline and put a match to them myself?

I tend to like the longer story arc anime, although a few of the shorter works are just as interesting. Cowboy Bebop was one of my favorites. I wrote bail for 2 years, and sometime the characters just reminded me of people I knew in the industry. Hikaru no Go was an interesting series as well, since it showed a glimpse into what it's like to be a Go player in Japan. I don't usually like the "Big F**king Robot" anime, although I do have a few exceptions to that rule (Armitage, Bubblegum, GunBuster). And although Naruto is a secret (well, not anymore) vice of mine I'm not really a big fan of the "Ninja" crap. What I mostly like about anime though is that the characters actually tend to develop as the series continues, unlike the cardboard cutout US characters. Most of the time it really doesn't matter to me what the setting is, as long as I can find the characters compelling.

A better question though might be: Why do people continue to watch the crap that American companies have continued to foist off on the world as "art?" Like "Survivor." After the first couple of episodes, I kept hoping they'd drop a nuke on them to give the bastards something to survive. Or "Lost." I figured out why they didn't get rescued. No one gave a flying fsck if they ever got off the damn island. "Dresden Files" I liked, but of course SCIFI killed it so they could have more wrestling (True, it's fiction, but is there REALLY any Science in pro wrestling?). I have 200 channels and I usually end up on Cartoon Network, TBS, Nick at Night, Discovery Channel, or the History channel.

Re:what is this anime thing ?

[HappyEngineer]

It used to be stigmatized as childish. I think The Simpsons, Family Guy, and South Park changed that years ago.

Re:what is this anime thing ?

[king-manic]

Plot, character development, basically anime tends to be quality entertainment. They are not like american cartoons which AFAIK are still affected by the McCarthy era standards. Anime tends to stand on it's own as well as much life action television. It's hard to explain, and I never fully understood why anime is taken so seriously by the creators. I have always thought of it like this, japan is relatively small country, and that being so I *think* they resort to anime as it requires less surface area to create. Your failing for the mis-representative sample fallacy. Like immigrants, the ones that make it to our shores tend to be the top half of the quality bell curve. We don't run into the other half because no one cares enough to sub/dub/import/torrent it. Just like Not all Chinese are hard working and mild mannered but enough Chinese immigrants are to spread that stereo type (I'm Chinese please don't racism mod me). The effort required to sub/dub/torrent helps filter the crap just as the effort required to actually immigrate filters less willing people. There is a lot of crappy anime too.

Re:what is this anime thing ?

[Telvin_3d]

I don't know about that. All three of those fall into a pretty narrow genre of comedy show. Could you really see someone pitching an animated show done in the style of Friends or the X-Files to any of the networks? And I mean that as a show designed to run in prime time, not Saturday morning or right after school hours.

Re:what is this anime thing ?

[The Frogstar]

As someone on IMDB said: "Space battles set to Bolero, what more could you ask for?"

Anime seems to have a much greater breadth of topics than any other visual medium. The trouble is a great deal is complete crap, so you find yourself spending one half of your time trawling through forums to find recommendations and the other half watching some juvenile rubbish.

Without a doubt however, when you find gems it is completely worth it. The series are often over 20 episodes long so you can totally immerse yourself in the universe. By far my favourite is Legend of Galactic Heroes, if you are into science fiction you should definitely check it out. It is over 100 episodes long, so it is quite a long haul, but the sheer number of deep and varied characters is simply astounding.

But this is one of the most serious anime series I know, most don't live up to the time spent downloading them.

Re:what is this anime thing ?

[Golias]

Sorry to break the news to you, but "YHBT."

An open-ended question about the appeal of anime is one of the oldest and most shop-worn trolls on Slashdot.

It's only slightly being asking, "I'm interested in anime, but don't know where to start. Can somebody recommend some good shows or movies for me?" and slightly ahead of "isn't anime mostly just giant robots and tentacle pr0n?"

In conclusion: YHL, HAND

Re:what is this anime thing ?

[Golias]

s/being/behind/

Sorry. I've been away from /. for a while, and fell out of the habit of hitting "Preview."

Re:what is this anime thing ?

[Workaphobia]

I am growing more and more towards the believe that Japanese culture is flat out superior to ours in terms of diversity and creativity. I recently watched in full two anime series: "The Law of Ueki" and "The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya", both of which were excellent. Animation is a time-consuming and expensive process, yet the Japanese seem to produce the finest quality artwork in their sleep without even trying. Their stories tend to actually have consistency, meaning, and development, and they don't seem to like compromising the integrity of their work for marketing or network related reasons.

But I think it really dawned on me how far ahead of us they are when I was watching the Culture Day episode of Haruhi, when the main character sang a song at a talent competition. The song they used was composed specifically for the series so it must have just been an afterthought for the production crew, and yet it still blew most modern real American songs away. All the music I've heard in animes just combines an incredible number of influences from all over the world and perfects these elements into something that could never be generated by one of our artists. It makes me very jealous.

Re:what is this anime thing ?

[Opportunist]

That's easy and hard to explain: Good plots.

The average TV show loses its appeal after a handful of episodes. It becomes repetitive, if it was any good and intriguing to start with. Most shows today are predictable and quite devoid of any plot twists. IMO, a waste of time, because you only get to watch what was a given after 10 minutes of the show. Rarely if ever a show manages to capture me, that's why Lost lost me after about half of the first season. It was a given that there will be no revelation, that the big obstacle they are about to solve gives them any more insight instead of yet another set of questions that will remain unanswered in suspense over the next couple episodes.

Here's where anime shine. You get resolutions, and quite often fairly surprising resolutions, yet the story can continue. They're also not so terribly set dead on a "happy end". Heros can fail. Heros can die. When you watch a common western show, it's a given that the hero either survives or dies some heroic death saving the day. That's not necessarily a requirement for anime. When the hero gets into a tight spot, it's not a given that he comes out somehow.

Animation offers a lot of freedom in that area. You don't need to go through a lengthy casting for your hero and have to cling to him, since it would certainly be a waste to "use" him only for a handful of episodes or a season, or have him die mid season because it would fit nicely into the plot. It's also easier to keep such deaths a surprise. If the actor who's playing some hero in a series takes a role in some movie for the same year, you have a good chance that he'll be gone soon. No such thing in anime. Moreover, you can have long term contracts with your voice actors even if their role dies. Assign him a new role, have him use a different tone and you're set. You can't do that with an actor.

Not to mention that SFX are a lot cheaper. Blowing up a building doesn't cost more than a lengthy talk in a cafe. Actually, it costs less. :)

Especially that last point leads to a lot more action and a lot faster paced story development. You'll rarely see "filler" episodes where you can actually smell that the budget wasn't big enough for anything but "characters sit down somewhere cheap and discuss their backgrounds".

Re:what is this anime thing ?

[dbIII]

You can also see the inpiration for US shows in them. If you watch "Irresponsible Captain Tylor" you'll see a lot of stuff that looks like the Minbari later on in "Babylon 5". Tylor has a setting borrowed from a lot of other places too - it is more or less what original Trek would be like if the Enterprise was captained by the Road Runner.

Re:what is this anime thing ?

[h4rm0ny]

There's plenty of creativity and talent in the USA. You have a very wealthy culture, though some of it may seem less so through familiarity. You do have a problem with a locked down media machine governed by the profit obsessed terrified who pressure everything to be targeted at the slap bang centre of the bell curve. Smart shows are dumbed down, shows without a love interest have one added, and so forth. Very good material slips through, but a lot is caught and strangled. The same goes with funding for projects that aren't deemed to hit a specific and defined demographic. When something new *is* successful, it is soon followed by clone after clone until the well is dry... and on after that, too.

Don't say that US culture doesn't have a lot to offer. It does. But greed kills a good percentage of it.

Re:what is this anime thing ?

[ThirdPrize]

I have checked out a few series and I have to say, none of it made any sense at all. Even the stuff dubbed into English. I am sure it does to the Japanese.

Re:what is this anime thing ?

[sqrt(2)]

[I] believe that Japanese culture is flat out superior to ours in terms of diversity and creativity Definition of a weeaboo. :P I don't think it's fair to say though, we make plenty of quality stuff here in America too. If popularity is any measurement then we're still number one in the world. There's not a lot of Japanese music I like, a few groups stand on their own merits quite well such as the pillows (Best known for providing the music to FLCL), Yoko Kanno, Seatbelts, but for the most part all the music I listen to was made in the US (or the UK).

Haruhi was excellent however. They've botched the English dub, and the subs on the official DVD release SUCK. Fansubbers did a better job than the official release, it's pretty sad actually. Also if you're any fan of that song, DON'T listen to the dubbed version, it's absolutely horrid. It will ruin it for you. It's possible to do dubs well; there are several shows. that I prefer the English dub to the sub (FLCL, GitS:SAC, Azumanga), but they really missed their mark with Haruhi, it was primarily a casting problem too, which is a shame.

Re:what is this anime thing ?

[ultranova]

I never really got it what the draw of anime is, can someone please enlighten me ?

Well, I'm personally more into manga (comics) than anime. The reason is simple: the only other comics available as widely are Marvel/DC superhero ones, which, frankly, are a never-ending soap opera long past its best date. The ingenious plot writers who apparently don't see any problem when a character wearing a swimsuit in a snowstorm on Antarctis doesn't suffer any ill effects don't help either.

That, and my current favorite, Negima, has lots of cute teen girls who lose their clothes all the time :). Sex sells, and the combination of sex, comedy, and big-explosion action even more so.

Re:what is this anime thing ?

[xtracto]

The characters are of course larger than life and more extreme than reality usually is, but some of the differences in how Asians

Yeah, those thousand penis tentacle monsters surely are more extreme and larger than life uh?

BTW for all of you porno cartoons fans, I remember watching a hentai movie where the girl needed to have an orgasm to avoid transforming to a wolf in a full moon (yeah... for those of u not in the know... japanese are that crazy). Anyone knows what is the name of that film??

Re:what is this anime thing ?

[zakezuke]

Your failing for the mis-representative sample fallacy. Like immigrants, the ones that make it to our shores tend to be the top half of the quality bell curve. We don't run into the other half because no one cares enough to sub/dub/import/torrent it. ... There is a lot of crappy anime too. I'm sure there is a lot of crappy anime. I never said there wasn't. But anime in general tends to be quality and taken very seriously. Part of what got my interested in anime were series such as Starblazers and Robotech (the Macross Saga) which were excellent series. The major key in most anime series is taking the time to create a story arc. The same reason I enjoyed Farscape, Babylon 5, House, and others. On top of that, series tend to not be canned on a whim, so a choice to watch a series usually results in seeing all the creator wants you to see. This doesn't always work out well as something like InuYasha spun off from the manga and wasn't continued in it's anime form.

Also the trend for reality TV and crappy programming made me choose to explore imports again.

But I do understand where you are coming from. I use to think the BBC had to be the best thing on earth, but that was due to the fact that PBS only imported the really good stuff. They produce a ton of crap as well, just the good stuff tends tends to make you think everything is good. I can only explain why I like anime. I understand not everyone can agree, and I can respect that.

But I don't believe all immigrants are the best the nation has to offer.

Re:what is this anime thing ?

[kaizokuace]

Well first, most anime have a continuous story that can be very engaging and allow for thorough character development seen in books or final fantasy games. So if more wester adults would give it a chance they would see that a lot of the stories are at an adult level (for example, if you like Dexter which is on Showtime you might enjoy Death Note as the stories involve serial killers and having to use their wits to not get caught).
Second, Unlike American adults the Japanese already got over themselves when it comes to watching animation. Seriously Americans adults having this 'consensus' that anything animated is for kids (animation cant win best film in the oscars, they gave animation its own category which is obviously condescending towards the art of animation, which is in many respects much more difficult to accomplish that live action film. Just because it's animated doesn't mean you can't draw stuff that isn't for kids only.

Re:what is this anime thing ?

[Anonymous Coward]

BTW for all of you porno cartoons fans, I remember watching a hentai movie where the girl needed to have an orgasm to avoid transforming to a wolf in a full moon (yeah... for those of u not in the know... japanese are that crazy). Anyone knows what is the name of that film?? La Blue Girl 4.

(Posting anonymously for obvious reasons).

Re:what is this anime thing ?

[Jesus_666]

Also, Japanese humor. The Japanese are not above putting weird dialogs in otherwise solemn series, nor are they above taking a horrible pun and constructing an entire episode (or even series) around it. When you look at joke anime, it's hard to find similar rapid-fire insanity in western media. Shows like Freakazoid! or Animaniacs are close, but the Japanese take the concept quite a bit further, even adding massive amounts of gore as a funny element (as seen in Bokusatsu Tensho Dokuro-chan). The last episode of Excel Saga was delibarately made to go too far to be aired on Japanese television, keeping in tone with the experimental spirit of the rest of the series.

Also, only the Japanese could make a hilarious series about the topic of baking bread; of course that show (Yakitate!! Japan) lives from its absurdly ridiculous elements like bread being so good that it literally sends people to heaven. Or turns them into Gamera. Or Bruce Lee. That depends on the kind of bread, of course.


It all boils down to three words: Rabid Japanese humor. (Not that they can't produce serious stuff; it's just the humor that I happen to like the most.)

Re:what is this anime thing ?

[Retric]

<my most nerdy post to /. yet in comic book guy voice>

There are a lot of non mainstream comics sold in the US some of which become hit's like:

-JtHM  Johnny the Homicidal Maniac (short strips in the goth magazine Carpe Noctem, and later published by Slave Labor Graphics)
-Powers (by Image Comics from 2000 to 2004 after which it was moved to Marvel Comics)
-Y the last man.(published by Vertigo)
-The Sandman (by once again by Vertigo which is part of DC Comics but focused on mature-readers)

But mostly non mainstream comics die off.  The problem is Japan has a wider audience for such things and a willingness to accept a poorly drawn or extremely stylized B&W comic an interesting plot but such things tend to die in the US.

PS: There are a wide range of surprisingly good independent web comics like www.xkcd.com.

</my most nerdy post to /. yet in comic book guy voice>

Re:what is this anime thing ?

[Firethorn]

But they did get their foot in the door, so to speak, that cartoons *don't* have to be targeted at children.

Re:what is this anime thing ?

[gotroot801]

9) Different mythos and cultures can really make a show interesting to me even if I think the premise is kind of dumb.

So you're willing to watch total crap as long as it's in the form of a Japanese cartoon?

Re:what is this anime thing ?

[MenTaLguY]

Yes -- I've seen enough anime at this point to come to the conclusion that 95% of it is utter crap. But from what I've seen the best 5% is also significantly better than the best 5% of US animation.

Re:what is this anime thing ?

[king-manic]

Yes -- I've seen enough anime at this point to come to the conclusion that 95% of it is utter crap. But from what I've seen the best 5% is also significantly better than the best 5% of US animation. This is true, but it's like comparing the top 5% of Japanese Haiku's to the top 5% of Memphis Gangster rap. Anime is a much broader medium in japan then animated films are in america. It'd be a fairer comparison to compare it to films in general or series. The reason Japan is so anime heavy is because initially they lacked a lot of the resources to stage high quality live action television, so artists used animation to bridge the gap between their vision and what is possible. Animation in America is created to be childrens media mostly. Very limited, patronizing and only occasionally break out of this box.

I do enjoy a lot of japanese animation, films like grave of fireflies rival any story that live action films have ever told. Princess Mononoke is very interesting too and anythign from studio Ghibli is infinitely superior to anything the mouse has ever released both stylistically and morally.

Re:what is this anime thing ?

[Moryath]

Like immigrants, the ones that make it to our shores tend to be the top half of the quality bell curve.

You haven't looked outside recently or gone by a Home Depot to see the crap that came up from Mexico, I see.

Re:what is this anime thing ?

[king-manic]

You haven't looked outside recently or gone by a Home Depot to see the crap that came up from Mexico, I see. I'm in Canada, all we get from south of the border are Americans.

Re:what is this anime thing ?

[Sancho]

The average TV show loses its appeal after a handful of episodes. It becomes repetitive You mean Sailor Moon doesn't get repetitive?? Dragon Ball Z?

Of course, I can't entirely blame you--the question you were answering was loaded to begin with. Anime is a medium, and there are good and bad anime, just like there's good and bad classical television. I do have to wonder if you don't have a pretty strong bias that might cloud your judgement[1].

Rarely if ever a show manages to capture me, that's why Lost lost me after about half of the first season. The trick with Lost is that the plane crash and survival on the island was just the hook to get people watching. After that, it became about the characters. If you watch the series for a season (and it helps to watch it all at once) you'll see drastic character growth. You learn about their backgrounds, their hopes, their fears. Plenty of movies have been almost entirely about the characters (with very little action), but it's pretty rare for a TV show these days. A lot of viewers stopped watching Lost when it became apparent that they were never going to resolve anything, and that's fine. They want a show with more action. Not everyone does.

I don't understand this, though:

[With anime y]ou get resolutions, and quite often fairly surprising resolutions, yet the story can continue. Most serial shows have this. There's an overarching plot with many subplots that get resolved along the way. Buffy: The Vampire Slayer is a perfect example. It was rare that an episode couldn't stand on its own, yet it also contributed to the season story arc. Lost has this, just a different mix of "standalone/arc." Same with Heroes. 24 is quite the opposite--although there are minor resolutions over the season, it's really just one long story.

Then, of course, there are sit-coms, where each episode is almost completely standalone, and only for the sake of continuity is there ever even a reference to previous shows. And there are equivalents to this in anime, which is just another reason that the original question doesn't make any sense.

[1] I'm the same way, really. I don't particularly care for animated media, so it takes a lot for an anime to grab me. There have been many anime that, upon reading the premise, I know that I should like, but when I sit down to watch it, I immediately get a bit turned off in my mind.

Re:what is this anime thing ?

[Nicolay77]

What about Colombia? Ugly Betty was written here.

Re:what is this anime thing ?

[Opportunist]

Oh c'mon, I'm talking about anime and you come with Sailor Moon. It's like talking about TV shows and you mentioning the Teletubbies and Barney. Of course there are kids shows, and many of them are far from having good plots.

Though you have to admit that there are more sensible plots in more anime kids shows than in normal kids programming.

To be honest, it took me quite a while too to accept anime as more than Sailor Moon, Yu Gi Oh (or however that crappy TCG-commercial show is spelled) and Dragon Ball. I grew up with cartoons, and I immediately expected just that from anime. I'd suggest taking a look at Last Exile or Wolf's Rain, or maybe Cowboy Beebop. It was an eye opener for me.

Re:what is this anime thing ?

[Sancho]

Sure. The point was that making blanket statments about a medium as varied as Anime just doesn't work. Nor does saying, "I'd like to get into anime, so where do I start?" have an answer applicable to everyone.

Anime (or more broadly, animation) may have elements that make certain things more feasible (such as the freedom to play around with casting, etc.) but that doesn't mean that all of them do it. I pointed out Sailor Moon and DBZ precisely because they're commonly known outside of fandom, and they're perfect counterexamples to some of the common claims made about anime's superiority.

I'm not interested in a fight or anything. I tried Cowboy Beebop (sounded perfect for my tastes) and it just didn't grab me. I think that I have subconscious expectations (from my culture) when it comes to animation that are just too hard to get over. Objectively, I can look at an anime or manga and say that it has certain qualities[1], and sometimes qualities that I'll look for in other mediums, but when I sit down to watch/read, I just tend to get put off.

[1] And more importantly, I can say that just because a story is presented in a certain medium doesn't mean that it's marketed to a specific age group. Contrast this to people who think that all comics are for kids, and thus comics with excessive sex and violence are clearly trying to corrupt our youth. I can objectively realize this, but that doesn't mean that subconsciously, when I sit down to watch it, I'm not put off by the perceived conflation of adult themes and "cartoony" rendering. It's a personal failing, but at least I don't try to impose my preconceptions upon society.

Re:what is this anime thing ?

[QuietObserver]

1) It's not the standard US crap that's all pointed at the lowest common denominator. Most US shows are so blatantly dumbed down that it's absolutely pathetic. Anything that strikes of being intelligent (and isn't a medical or criminal drama) usually ends up taken off the air in a season.

I very much agree; the only TV series that, to me, at least, has managed to get away with being blatantly dumbed down is Simpsons, and while I still enjoy the episodes, I feel they've lost much of their original quality in the past five years or so. As a result, I've virtually given up on television; almost everything I watch now days is on DVD.

Re:what is this anime thing ?

[mink]

I think the ultimate joke series was Photon! (I think they called it the adventures of stupid for the american release). The whole series is a build up to a punchline that referances an old DOS error message. Total nerd joke carried to an extreme.

DMCA requires the *copyright holder* to issue

[corsec67]

The DMCA requires the copyright holder to issue the takedown. If the anime is unlicensed, that means that **nobody** in the US is legally able to issue that takedown, and it should be ignored, or a counter takedown/law suit should be initiated...

IANAL, of course, but the wiki page is pretty clear on that.

Re:DMCA requires the *copyright holder* to issue

[Microlith]

No, but the Japanese licensors can request it be done, or authorize a 3rd party to make a request.

Re:DMCA requires the *copyright holder* to issue

[MWoody]

Unlicensed doesn't mean uncopyrighted. It just means no company yet has the rights to produce an English-language version for local distribution. The original creators still own the rights to the work, and may enforce it as they see fit.

The "don't torrent licensed anime" rule held by many fansubbers or fans is considered a moral restriction, intended to get more fans turned on to anime in general or a specific series in particular without drawing revenue away from (and thereby discouraging future) English-language versions. It has no basis in law; licensed or not, downloading anime is copyright infringement.

That said, this story is still bizarre. Why care if an unlicensed anime is available with fansubs? I suppose if a future English-language release is forthcoming but not announced, they could think they're making sure they don't lose any customers. But if that's the case, it's still misguided for two reasons: 1) fansubs tend, historically, to increase sales of the released product, since they generate buzz about a show - hell, they're the only reason anime is popular here at all. And 2) the aforementioned "don't fansub licensed work" rule works in their favor, and such a bad-faith enforcement will shatter the basis for what's essentially a tentative moral code. Treat your fans like shit and they'll return the favor.

But even this foolhardy move seems unlikely, since these are releases from different companies being targeted, many of them tremendously unlikely to see a region 1 release. It really does look like Comcast is generating these DMCA notices itself, which is just... bizarre. I'd laugh if they weren't completely without competition in so many markets, meaning for some people this sort of bullshit is effectively inescapable. I'm not a libertarian, but can we get a LITTLE help from the free market here, people?

Re:DMCA requires the *copyright holder* to issue

[Conspiracy_Of_Doves]

No one in the US can issue the takedown. Does the DMCA require that the copyright holder be based in the US, or just the person or organization that is being requested to take the work down?

Re:DMCA requires the *copyright holder* to issue

[snl2587]

Yes, but have they?

I'm really glad that where I live the dominant force is COX, which, although it has its problems as well, does a decent job at actually providing internet service without all of the provider/customer warfare.

Re:DMCA requires the *copyright holder* to issue

[Anonymous Coward]

The "don't torrent licensed anime" rule held by many fansubbers or fans is considered a moral restriction It's worth noting that not all groups follow this rule: for example, Dattebayo routinely releases licensed anime fansubs. (I'm only naming them to publicly shame them. Both series they release, Bleach and Naruto, and not only licensed in the US but actually shown on cable! So there's no excuse for them to continue to release episodes. Plus both series are crap, of the US Saturday morning cartoon variety.)

Apparently Comcast hasn't been cracking down on their illegal and immoral work, but it's worth noting that while most good groups refuse to release licensed anime, some groups continue will do it anyway. If Comcast were cracking down on them I'd have no objection, but I do find it rather curious that they'd crack down on unlicensed anime.

Re:DMCA requires the *copyright holder* to issue

[Microlith]

fansubs tend, historically, to increase sales of the released product, since they generate buzz about a show

This is an unproven assertion. At best a fansub makes the show available to those who wouldn't buy anyway, with a FEW additional buyers. At worst it may be cutting down the number of people who actually pay. I know there are a lot of die-hard downloaders who hate licensors for specious reasons, spouting arguments that have been destroyed regularly over the past 8 years. Suffice it to say, if the number of people downloading a given episode of a show off Animesuki were to buy the DVD it was on, the whole industry would be doing much better than it is now (which is to say, not very well.)

the aforementioned "don't fansub licensed work" rule works in their favor, and such a bad-faith enforcement will shatter the basis for what's essentially a tentative moral code. Treat your fans like shit and they'll return the favor.

The "fansubbers" blew it when more than a few started mouthing off regarding pre-licenses or mid-run licensing of shows, and only made it worse when they continue to sub and release shows for studios that have explicitly asked that it not be done, up to and including the 2004 Mediafactory letter to Animesuki.

The fansub area is nothing like what it once was, resembling more an 0day warez clusterfuck than fansubbing of old.

Re:DMCA requires the *copyright holder* to issue

[Fourier404]

Yay Cox! The one time I got a cease and desist it was actually sent by the copyright holder and forwarded home. Cox seems to be excellent about the whole privacy thing, from what I've seen they never act on the actions of users unless prodded by a 3rd party or an explicit violation of their terms of use, which are pretty loose, arises.

Re:DMCA requires the *copyright holder* to issue

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

1) fansubs tend, historically, to increase sales of the released product, since they generate buzz about a show - hell, they're the only reason anime is popular here at all. Here's the problem in the modern age. It's not fansub distribution networks who are mailing out VHS tapes anymore as the primary method of fansub distro. It's foreign bittorrent trackers, Directconnect hubs, ftps, irc f-serves, etc.

I do download fansubs, but I'm not going to act all butthurt when my favorite series is licensed or the fansubber gets a C&D.

Re:DMCA requires the *copyright holder* to issue

[TheThiefMaster]

To be fair, Dattebayo is a good 200 episodes ahead of the episodes that are licensed.

In fact in the case of Naruto, they're actually on the "spinoff" series, which hasn't been licensed in the US.

Re:DMCA requires the *copyright holder* to issue

[MMaestro]

At best a fansub makes the show available to those who wouldn't buy anyway, with a FEW additional buyers.

Seeing as the overwhelming majority of animes are NEVER shown on U.S. cable, saying that fansubs only creates a few buyers at best is sheer idiocy. Would you have watched the original Star Trek series if the only way was to buy (or borrow) a VHS copy with 3 or 4 episodes on each cassette tape at $20~30 each? What about American Idol? Lost? What about something several seasons long like 24 or Grey's Anatomy? For every Pokemon and Naruto success story, theres a Full Metal Panic and Ah! My Goddess (both direct-to-DVD series, both popular enough to receive sequels in Japan but are essentially unknown outside of the fandom).

Re:DMCA requires the *copyright holder* to issue

[TheRaven64]

Unlicensed doesn't mean uncopyrighted

It ought to. I've been saying this now for some years. Copyright exists to encourage publication, and if you are not publishing you should not enjoy copyright protection. There should be a short grace period (longer for thing that require translation), but then if you don't make an effort to distribute then you should only be eligible for trade secrets protection.

Re:DMCA requires the *copyright holder* to issue

[Anonymous Coward]

Some good points there.

Now, what I'd like to see is the japanese companies(and US licensors) sue Comcast, officialy for acting without legal basis but preventing anime from being shared(and therefore preventing all those consequences you mentioned).

Re:DMCA requires the *copyright holder* to issue

[kaizokuace]

Why care if an unlicensed anime is available with fansubs?

It doesn't matter if its unlicensed or not to Comcast. They see huge bandwidth drain and they want it to stop. Simple as that. They have decided to employ illegal scare tactics to try and control traffic. Anime which is not licensed in the states can't be forced to be taken down. Also DMCA takedowns have to be issued by the copyright holder, not comcast.

Re:DMCA requires the *copyright holder* to issue

[aussie_a]

So if it takes a company 3 years to get the funding (i.e. profits) to release a product internationally they lose their copyright everywhere except Japan? What about if it takes 2 years to find a local publisher?

Re:DMCA requires the *copyright holder* to issue

[Anonymous Coward]

I looked briefly at the post that had the original Comcast letter. This is for Gundam 00, this I believe is a Bandai property (I think all Gundam is) if so then it is licensed here in the U.S. first as Bandai has a US division. As a fansubber, I am surprised that they have went this route as they usually would contact the groups involved (Mendoi and Conclave) to get the distribution stopped. But then again, Bandai as a company are such a collection of pricks that it wouldn't surprise me if they did do this.

Re:DMCA requires the *copyright holder* to issue

[hey!]

Hmmm. This may be one of those situations where the difference between MUST and MAY comes into play.

IIRC the standard safe harbor takedown procedure envisions the service provider as controlling the distribution of the materials in question. The service provider receives the takedown notice from the copyright holder, removes the materials, then waits for a counterclaim by the purported infringer. If a counterclaim is offered, the materials are restored unless the copyright holder promptly files suit against the purported infringer. In this procedure, the copyright holder and infringer don't have any contact at all, except as mediated by the service provider.

So that much, at least, is kosher.

The point of this procedure, which was drafted back in the era of services like AOL, is give the service "safe harbor" -- defined responsibilities which if fulfilled, are all the provider is REQUIRED to do. This doesn't prevent them from doing more, although it might not be advisable. It also doesn't prevent some fourth party from sticking their oar in for some reason, which is what I think is going on here.

IANAL, but it seems to me in the case of P2P, the service provider and alleged infringer are one and the same: the individual. Comcast is no more involved in what goes up or down on a P2P offering than the phone company would be if the user was leasing a line to an ISP. Comcast doesn't have the ability to take down individual files, and so can't comply with a copyright holder's takedown notice, other than by shutting off the subscriber's service, which is MORE than they are required to do under safe harbor, and in fact would be dangerous for them if the situation weren't covered under their TOS with the subscriber.

Comcast can claim they are issuing a DMCA safe harbor takedown on behalf of the copyright holders, but that doesn't make it true. It may be within its legal rights to shut off the subscriber's service if it thinks that subscriber is violating copyright laws including DMCA. They can claim they are doing so because the Moon is made out of cheese, but that doesn't make it so.

If DMCA really worked this way, it would be the most dangerous law ever. I could shut down a political party's web site a day before the election by filing a DMCA takedown notice with the party's ISP. The ISP could then choose the pull the plug on the party's internet service, claiming safe harbor. It would send notification to the party, and the party would have to receive the notification and respond to it in order to have their service restored, which might be after election day.

Now, the ISP doesn't have to choose to take advantage of safe harbor. They could decide to take the chance I'm making a spurious claims. On the other hand, if they were sympathetic with my political view, they could piously claim safe harbor while cutting off web communications, email, even phone service to party headquarters. They would duly restore services after their notice was sent (by registered snail mail) and the response received (likewise by snail mail).

No, Comcast is sticking its oar in here for its own purposes. It is, after all, a content vendor, so perhaps it sees its own subscribers as potential competitors. It probably doesn't like YouTube very much, but it can't do anything about it without running into a team of well financed lawyers. Fans trading bootleg movies are a different matter.

Re:DMCA requires the *copyright holder* to issue

[Mr. Underbridge]

It really does look like Comcast is generating these DMCA notices itself, which is just... bizarre. I'd laugh if they weren't completely without competition in so many markets, meaning for some people this sort of bullshit is effectively inescapable. I'm not a libertarian, but can we get a LITTLE help from the free market here, people?

Courts could help more than the free market. I'm not a lawyer, but I really don't think you can issue a DMCA takedown on behalf of another party. Seems to me that unless the content owner is involved, Comcast shouldn't have legal standing with regard to that.

Re:DMCA requires the *copyright holder* to issue

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's say you have 2 years to get a publisher.

It takes you 7.

At that point you regain your rights.

You well you still have them for the next 80 years so your loss is what?

Re:DMCA requires the *copyright holder* to issue

[tepples]

So if it takes a company 3 years to get the funding (i.e. profits) to release a product internationally they lose their copyright everywhere except Japan? What about if it takes 2 years to find a local publisher? Then stick with the 14 year term envisioned by the first US Congress. It's the 95-year Sonny Bono garbage that's unfair.

Re:DMCA requires the *copyright holder* to issue

[Anonymous Coward]

To be fair, who cares? It's licensed. A good fansubber would immediately stop, just like every other fansubber who was subbing those two series.

And Naruto has been licensed in the US. I'll bet you'll find that, if you actually checked, it includes any spinoff series or movies.

Re:DMCA requires the *copyright holder* to issue

[Sloppy]

The DMCA requires the copyright holder to issue the takedown. If the anime is unlicensed, that means that **nobody** in the US is legally able to issue that takedown,

[WTF?! Mods, the above is informative?!?] That's an extremely bizarre leap of logic.

Nobody? What about the copyright holder? What about their designated agent?

It sounds like you're saying that only a licensee can do it. That's absurd. Lack of licensee doesn't even remotely imply non-existence of copyright holder.

(But I must admit, I can't figure out how you "promote the progress of arts and sciences" by granting copyright to something that is totally unpublished at all.)

Re:DMCA requires the *copyright holder* to issue

[corsec67]

The copyright holder is the Japanese studio. I didn't say that nobody could issue the takedown, just that nobody **in the US** could issue the takedown, since it wasn't licensed.

Now, I don't know whether someone outside the US can issue DMCA takedown notices against a US website, but that is a seperate issue.

That, and usually the DMCA notices go to the website, and not the downloaders.

Re:DMCA requires the *copyright holder* to issue

[aussie_a]

Once something is in the public domain it can't be taken out. To allow otherwise would make the public domain useless.

Re:DMCA requires the *copyright holder* to issue

[aussie_a]

Oh I'm definitely in favour of lesser length of copyright. But you can't refuse someone copyright if they haven't entered a market (yet).

Dunno.

[clayne]

I never really got it what the draw of anime is, can someone please enlighten me ?

Me neither - but I suspect the 20-dick wielding monster humanoid might have something to do with it.

Copyright holder?

[FooSoft]

Are we in the right to demand Comcast to reveal the name of the copyright holder upon receiving a DMCA notification?

Re:Copyright holder?

[Raptoer]

The name and postal address of the copyright holder is not necessary in the DMCA takedown request, unless a counter notification is sent. IANAL

Re:Copyright holder?

[asuffield]

More than that, if the takedown notice does not include all of the relevant information, then it is invalid. The required information includes:

• Identification of the work that is allegedly being infringed
• Identification of the material that is allegedly infringing that work
• Sufficient information for you to contact the complaining party
• A declaration under penalty of perjury that the complaining party is the copyright holder, or is authorised to act on their behalf (meaning that if you send a takedown notice for something you don't have the rights to, you go to jail - perjury means roughly "lying to the court", and is a very serious crime)

If no contact information is provided (so you don't even know who complained), you may simply ignore it. For some of the other parts you are obliged to inform the complaining party so that they can correct the error, but you don't have to do anything further until they do. Since you can't contact them at all without their contact details, you have no obligations when that bit is missing.

I do not think that Comcast are sending real DMCA notices here, they're just making noise in the hope that people do what they say anyway. But if they were, the above would apply.

Re:Copyright holder?

[chris411]

But to properly write a counter notification, you need to know the identity of the (supposed) copyright holder. For example, perhaps the takedown request was filed incorrectly, or the people who issue it might not even be the actual copyright owner (such as was the case a while back, when Youtube took down a man's video that he had recorded on a MTV show, even though he was the actual creator and that it had been used by MTV without his permission).

Comcast also just started port-blocking

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been running a personal mailserver for the past four-plus years off of Comcast, this Thursday or so they just started filtering SMTP connections to it. The IMAP / IMAPSSL / etc connections all were working fine. Anyone else seen same?

Re:Comcast also just started port-blocking

[timmarhy]

I was blocking SMTP connections from comcast ip's a long time ago.. too much zombie spam.

Re:Comcast also just started port-blocking

[Fluffy_Kitten]

I experienced the same exact thing, except over a year ago when I tried to run a mail server. As I recall I got a rebound email (or something along those lines) telling me to use comcast mail or some bullshit like that.

Re:Comcast also just started port-blocking

[sickspeed6]

Most ISP's do this. Not entirely sure why, but i know that we have seen it in the Boston University Tech support office on several occasions. Most recently was RCN shutting down SMTP. it was funny because we got calls from RCN tech support w/ BU students on the line, asking why our SMTP wasn't working on their ISP. sure enough, RCN had just started blocking outgoing. So, Students could receive off the IMAP, but couldn't send. So, then we, not RCN, had to walk them through setting up their mail client to send via RCN SMTP, but look like a BU email....good times

Re:Comcast also just started port-blocking

[Anonymous Coward]

Really?!?!? I must have missed the memo, I still have comcast spam zombies hitting my smtp, yes, I checked the logs. Thanks for letting us know, I'm sure their spam zombies will quit sending mail to my servers now.

They could limit their bandwidth useage by blocking outbound port 25, and opening it up for customers that request it open. The greater majority of their users would never be aware it was happening, and most customers wanting it open would understand why it was blocked by default. The legitimate customers wanting port 25 open would probably be appreciative of the effort. My ISP at home does this, and I appreciate that their other customers will not turn into spam zombies spewing a ton of crap at my mail servers.

Have you considered leasing a virtual server to fill this need. They start at aroung USD $30.00/month with 200GB monthly transfer, or lease a full server, they start at around USD $100.00/month with 1000GB monthly transfer.

You can even download your torrents onto the server, then sftp them to your physical location. All your ISP would get to know is that you are transferring a load of encrypted data. Also, you won't believe the DL speeds you can get when your torrent starts uploading at 300 to 400 KB, yes, that's a BIG B for Byte for those of us here in the US that get craptastic upload speeds from our ISP's. I've had torrents DL here at home at a snails pace, started DL them on the server, and end up watching that nice 40 minute show while the torrent here at the house was around 5% complete.

Re:Comcast also just started port-blocking

[Yusaku Godai]

Beats me, since I've been off Comcast for a year. But of course, it's always been their policy that you can't run "a server" (not realizing how broad that really is). I'm surprised you were able to run one for as long as you did.

Re:Comcast also just started port-blocking

[justthinkit]

I noticed something similar by Comcast on Thursday as well. In fact that is the reason I read this thread -- I imagined Comcast themselves wouldn't admit to anything and that /.ers would be quick to chime in on this latest move. Sure enough, yada yada.

Anyway, I run Eudora (have done so for 11 or 12 years). Now I can't send email. I even tried using my web site host's smtp server but the bounces are the same -- you gotta love Comcast for not only preventing me from email using their smtp server (without notifying me in any way), but preventing me from using ANY smtp server.

I haven't figured out how to resolve this yet. Anyone?

Re:Comcast also just started port-blocking

[tepples]

I was blocking SMTP connections from comcast ip's a long time ago By "comcast ip's" do you mean only from residential cable modems, or also from Comcast's own SMTP server?

Re:Comcast also just started port-blocking

[Skapare]

Direct connections from Comcast customer addresses, and those of many, many other ISPs, are gracefully refused[1] by thousands, maybe tens of thousands, of mail servers all over the world. The big reason for this are the hundreds of thousands, possibly millions, of zombie computers running some malware that is making connections directly to port 25 to deliver spam in massive quantities that Comcast and others would more readily stop if it were forwarded through their own mail servers. If you send your email through your ISP's mail server, you are distinguishing your mail above that of most spam. If you send it via an outside mail server that is properly configured through some hosting with your own domain name, it will be even more distinguished (because many networks even refuse email from Comcast's mail servers). It is your responsibility to make sure your email stands above the spam (while spammers are trying to make their email look as important as yours).

[1] The TCP connection is actually accepted, the SMTP protocol is carried out, and a message is sent via an SMTP 5XX error code to indicate the mail was refused, and usually why.

Re:Comcast also just started port-blocking

[yuna49]

All the other replies seem to be about outbound SMTP. I think you're asking about inbound SMTP.

I've used my Linux firewall on my residential Comcast connection as a backup MX server for many years now. I knew full well this was in violation of the "no-servers" clause in the Terms of Service, but Comcast didn't seem to care much about it. (My total SMTP traffic was probably a lot less than my bittorrent traffic as well.) About a month ago inbound SMTP was blocked. I doubt they singled me out particularly; my guess is they just started filtering traffic for port 25 across the network.

I'm probably going to buy a Verizon business FiOS connection and dump Comcast. I think it will add another $30-40/month to the cost of an Internet service, but I'll get to have a fixed IP and run servers. If I had the money, I'd buy Verizon's 5/5 MB symmetric business FioS which is something like $225/month. We pay more for the commercial T1 my servers share now and get a third the bandwidth.

They're only complaining

[crowbarsarefornerdyg]

Because it cuts into their employee's bandwidth to download the same thing.

Re:They're only complaining

[jibjibjib]

But it wouldn't cut into their employees' bandwidth. With the right software, Comcast could just monitor their customers' downloads and get copies of all the anime for their own use. ... I think I just realised why the NSA tries to intercept so much traffic.

Re:They're only complaining

[crowbarsarefornerdyg]

Wow. To be honest, I wouldn't know whether to mod that funny or insightful...

Re:Will it ever stop?

[Technician]

When will people say "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH" and jump off these ISPs and stop being their customers?

When we have another choice besides dial-up.

Re:Will it ever stop?

[rucs_hack]

For f*** sake... when will this stop? When will people say "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH" and jump off these ISPs and stop being their customers?

There are issues, like contract time left to run, availability of a replacement ISP, stuff like that. If all the ISP's start acting the same, well, choices diminish.

Also, not everyone who uses a net connection is the one paying for it.

Seems to be a slight misconception

[ThreeGigs]

The DMCA notice was issued to the person in question not because they downloaded, but because they were a source of the anime.

My guess is the person kept the torrent client open after downloading the file, and became a server for others.

The real question this brings up is just how much liability are you exposed to since most torrent clients will turn your machine into a server, thus converting you from a user to a distributor in the eyes of the law.

Re:Seems to be a slight misconception

[Carbon016]

Well, since peers also share pieces of the file, you could technically get busted even for running a download.

Re:Seems to be a slight misconception

[ThreeGigs]

you could technically get busted even for running a download

Technically nothing, that's exactly what happened. Worse, the person that got served had no clue (and still doesn't seem to realize) that they didn't get the notice because of downloading, but because of sharing. How many other people are there that don't know how torrents work who are in the same position?

Standing back and looking at it, it's a great tactic. Torrenters will turn sharing off to avoid these notices, which in turn will cut down on availability, hitting the torrent concept squarely where it benefits most. Sources become fewer with more infringement per source, making them more profitable to persue legally.

Re:Seems to be a slight misconception

[Anonymous Coward]

do you have any idea how bittorrent works? i can see not

1995 called, you left your brain there by mistake and they want you to pick it up (it's starting to smell)

Re:Will it ever stop?

[QuantumG]

hehe, people in many parts of the US have no options. They've allowed their market to be dominated by a few players who are in cahoots.

err k.

[MrCawfee]

i guess some post by some random person somewhere is proof of evil doing....

i mean seriously, QoS is a hell of alot easier to reduce bandwidth then sending DMCA letters. Comcast may be evil, but not everything that happens is evil.

Crap

[56ksucks]

Comcast needs to worry more about providing decent internet service and less about blocking crap. I looked forward to living in an area with comcast so I could get a VoIP service and ditch bellsouth. Now I'd rather have Bellsouth than deal with this crap.

Re:Crap

[Dunbal]

But (according to them) blocking crap is how they provide decent internet service...

Re:Crap

[mrchaotica]

Yeah, but is Bellsouth (or rather, AT&T) actually any better?

thanks for the new.

[Anonymous Coward]

AnimeSuki? i didnt know this site. i am going to check it out and watch a few movie.
thanks for the news.

Re:thanks for the new.

[Kandenshi]

animesuki is one of the two sites I get most of my anime torrents from. Tokyotosho is the other that I'd heartily suggest. Some torrents are duplicates, but they do carry a fair bit of different stuff too(eg: OSTs on tokyotosho, raws, etc...). And tokyotosho doesn't mind carrying some shows that animesuki wouldn't be willing to.

Little incentive for them to stop it

[FiniteElementalist]

There's basically been tacit allowance of widespread copyright infringement for unlicensed anime because there is little incentive for the Japanese companies to try to stop it. That's because the English market for an unlicensed anime isn't open yet; they need someone to translate and distribute it. There's no money to be lost yet, so they can mostly benefit from the infringement to market the shows and get data on what's popular in the western markets. The only downside is the risk of not being able to stop infringement once they license, but many fansubbers will stop translating willingly when it is licensed. And people will still pirate anyways...

Comcast however, has a direct interest in stopping this: it eats up bandwidth. So I would guess they are either mostly or completely behind this rather than the copyright holders. I wonder if they even have permission from the copyright holders to send these out.

Re:Will it ever stop?

[darkpixel2k]

For f*** sake... when will this stop? When will people say "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH" and jump off these ISPs and stop being their customers?

In my area it's Comcast and Qwest. Qwests prices are significantly higher than Comcast.
When Comcast called me and said that 300 Gb/mo is way to much, I simply asked them if I could pay more for them to stop harassing me about bandwidth usage. So for another $30/mo I went from being a 'home' user to their business class connection. And even though their home and business connections are listed at the same speed (8 Mb), I now actually get 10-12 Mb. (Plus I go from 768 up to a full meg).

Now, since I'm a business class user, they expect traffic levels they would see from a business that has anywhere from a few computers to fifty computers. Now 300 Gb/mo doesn't seem so high when you compare it to one of the sites I do contracting for--they have 40 workstations, 3 servers, and are constantly transferring high res x-rays to other sites.

The only part that pissed me off about Comcast calling was that they simply never told me of their magical cap, and they refused to tell me what it was--just that I had run over it.

I would have had no problem if they flat out told me their rates and caps--like 500 Gb for $80/mo.

It's simple...

[Raven737]

Comcast has no idea what Anime is, they probably don't even know WHAT their users are downloading at all
nor do they REALLY care, all they care about is what costs them money and that is people USING the service they paid for
a wee bit more then others. (oh the horrible crime!!!)

It is simply the assumption that bittorrent + lots traffic = illegal. No need to verify, just roll out the DMCA crap.
Comcast expects that teir 'stupid customors' won't know how to properly respond and hope that they simply won't have the resources
to put up any fight. It the same as the *AA thugs say, BitTorrent or ANY type of P2P file distribution is ALWAYS used, by ALL users,
to share copyrighted content and only if THEY have full control over the distribution (which can never fully happen in P2P) can they
believe that anyone MIGHT be 'less of a criminal' (but they should probably pay them anyway, since all people are obviously evil).

It's Comcasts + MAFIAA ongoing attempt to make P2P illegal, not just by law but also by peoples believes.
If you tell them often enough that it's a horrible HORRIBLE crime, then at some point people (especially by those who do not use/understand)
will believe it and that's when you get stupid juries that award x billion for having some bittorrent client installed.

Distribution (without profit) of unlicensed content is fully legal, but like i said, Comcast doesn't even know it is unlicensed Anime
and nor do they care. They didn't care what content was distributed when they simply killed p2p connections before. It was p2p, that's enough.

So the MAFIAA wants you to remember:
P2P = bad = crime... obviously you should feel really REALLY bad the next time you download a WoW patch... (you criminal!!!)

Common Carrier?

[bhima]

Now that Comcast is actively monitoring and selectively interfering with traffic doesn't that mean they are no longer a common carrier? Aren't they now obliged to detect and stop all the child porn and all the unlicensed & infringing material, and slander & libel, and terrorist threats ?
More importantly aren't they legally responsible for such content on their network? Can't they now be sued by various interests?

Re:Common Carrier?

[wizardforce]

I don;t think that they are considered a common carrier. As far as I understand it, they're considered to be a private network by which they can pretty much decide what can and can not go through but at the same time they have found a way around any obligations implied with that kind of control.

Re:Common Carrier?

[jpfed]

I don't believe ISPs in general have historically been classified as common carriers in the first place.

Re:Common Carrier?

[Anonymous Coward]

Repeat after me: ISPs are not common carriers in the first place.

Ooh Ooh I know why

[pembo13]

Must because more and more subbed anime is the only thing worth watching. Right now, on my paid for "digital" cable from TimeWarner, the only thing worth watching i some show on the Travel Channel about unusual McDonnals restaurants around the world. Damned if I had only thought ahead to download so anime ahead of time. Everything else that would have been worth while watching is reruns. The rest is just crap. So Comcast must just have figured that they would getter get more people to watch tv if there was less anime to watch.

legal crud...

[si1houette]

comcast's dmca says that

Comcast has received a notification by a copyright owner, or its authorized agent, reporting an alleged infringement of one or more copyrighted works made on or over Comcast's High-Speed Internet service. It never says that the particular copyright owner in question has the rights on this particular copyright. it only says that a copyright owner claims that somebody's copyright has been violated.

To bad it's not a DMCA notice

[jpmorgan]

From the DMCA, takedown notices must include

512(c)(3)(vi) A statement that the information in the notification is accurate, and under penalty of perjury, that the complaining party is authorized to act on behalf of the owner of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed.

However, the letter posted in TFA doesn't look like a DMCA takedown notice. It looks like just a warning about acceptable use policy infringements. If they'd been DMCA notices then Comcast would apparently be committing perjury.

Re:To bad it's not a DMCA notice

[MadJo]

Indeed, they are DCMA notices instead of DMCA notices. (as per the article) :)

Re:To bad it's not a DMCA notice

[Anonymous Coward]

It seems to be more of a DMCA takedown threat than a proper notice, along the vein of the recording industry's pre-litigation letters.

Interesting...

[JimXugle]

I wonder If I'll get one.

This reminds me of AMD...

[DaedalusHKX]

The anime people are no different than AMD was.

They got their chips known for performance with the Athlon/K7 and the overclockers and tweakers (one of whom I once was, when I had more time and cash to blow on testing hardware and new rigs every few months.) Anyways, to cut to the chase, remember when AMD stopped their majority overclockers dead, and began to make it tougher and tougher to OC their chips? This despite the fact that the vast majority of tweakers ended up buying more and more AMD chips. It was basically AMD saying "thanks folks, you got us to be known as performance chip makers, and now here's us flipping you the bird, we got corporate marketshare now, we don't really give a shit anymore." This is exactly what the Japanese Anime studio/government bitch and moaners are doing. They got the US market interested through the fansubs (frankly until the corporate studio schmucks do as faithful a translation without americanizing the shows to "appease" to the masses, I prefer the fansubs most of the time... with VERY few exceptions. Vampire Hunter D is better in English, and Noir was good in both languages, IMHO.)

Maybe a solution to the problem?

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=649839

Why Anime is Interesting

[foxalopex]

It's interesting that so many folks don't understand what anime is. I've helped run a club for nearly a decade so what I can tell you and why it's loved has more to do with it's format I suspect. I prefer to call them anime series because most series are about 12-26 episodes long. Imagine going to watch a good movie and having it last for 12-26 episodes. It's why I like anime, they can go far more in depth than a good movie plus they cover topics that would give our censoring groups a heart attack. Some views on religion or god for example are interesting. Also there's a massive variety. Imagine the variety that a movie rental has. That's the diversity that anime has. Plus if you find something you like, you'll have a good 12-26 episode series versus only 2 hours of fun.
I find it sad that most folks still consider anime as being for kids only. That's as bad as saying Movies are for kids only. Or video games are only for kids. They arn't.
As for why torrenting is popular. Anime has an interesting distribution style which is something the North American companies should study. Originally when I first joined anime years ago it was tough to find it. Now you can find nearly anything licensed or unlicensed online. While the general idea is that once a North American company licenses it, the torrenting is suppose to stop it doesn't. Halariously most copyright holders don't entirely care. That's because they don't have to spend a cent on advertising and a series gets popular by it's own credits. Fans then go out and buy the overpriced series they like. So there you have it, it's all online for you to pick and choose and if you really like it you can shell out your hard earned cash. I guess in a sense this means that fans end up paying for the pirating but hell, if you really love a series don't you want more people to see it? Win-win for both consumer and producer I say. ISPs of course lose on this the most due to all the torrent traffic.

Re:Why Anime is Interesting

[Hut_tuH]

Of course most folks consider anime as being for kids only...

Thats how US License Holders Want it.

With a few exceptions. Shows are poorly voiced over, with storylines edited and/or totally destroyed in order to

1. make it dumbed down enough so that even the youngest of viewers can understand.
2. making it as sanitized as possible for a tv station to air it on saturday mornings/after school.

In turn, television stations "use it" to sell candy/cereal/toy commercials, with all involved wringing their hands hoping they have the next pokemon/power rangers on their hands.

That making it out to be a kids product is the plan by US companies.... makes less sense for a for a foreign company to have that much concern over it. After all, how many 7 year olds do you know would be willing to read subtitles...let alone understand japanese?

nah, comcast got their hands caught in the torrent throttling cookiejar.... anime is plan b.

Re:Why Anime is Interesting

[prelelat]

Something I've always wondered was if anime was for kids over in Japan, if so that scares the crap out of me. If you compare our saturday morning Cartoons with some of those anime.. Definatly a lot more blood and sex.

There is no "draw" to anime. It's not popular.

[Anonymous Coward]

There is no "draw" about anime. Anime is NOT popular. A few nerds
like it but that's it.

Anime night (saturdays) is, by far, the lowest rated night on Adult Swim.
It's been stated by Williams Street that as soon as an anime program comes on,
their ratings drops by about half from the previous (non-anime) program.

It's no mystery why they're buying only one or two anime series a year now.

Re:Will it ever stop?

[wizardforce]

I bet Comcast didn't set a solid cap because it's probably based on a bell-curve of data usage. they try to keep the mean under a certain amount and so if the higher 10% or so of customers use 30% of the data for example, telling them to throttle back is an easy way to decrease Comcast's bandwidth obligations. They can't really tell anyone what the solid cap is because there'd be enough people maxing out what they can get away with under that solid cap and it wouldn't solve much under their current system. As to why they don't say you can use x gigs/month for x dollars, it's probably more profitable for them to sell "unlimited" contracts at a certain price that allows for most people's bandwidth needs and provide them with a nice cushy profit margin as well.

Anime is mainstream

[enderwig]

I see this as a marker of just how mainstream anime has become. Back when there was only a few thousand people who knew what anime was, the studios probably didn't care. Back then, the cost of going after fansubbers when potential profit was near zero was just throwing money away. Now, millions know about anime, and there is potential profit at stake. The anime studios don't need the free advertising effect of fansubs, especially now that they have real advertising channels to play with.

Re:Anime is mainstream

[foxalopex]

I'll admit it's more popular then when I first saw it years ago but it's hardly mainstream. It's still a very tiny market. Most anime series are still spread by word of mouth or by fansubs. After all I run an anime club and I don't even know what's new all the time. There's no direct advertising from Japan concerning the latest anime's out in public media. The little direct advertising that I do see is from an ancient anime series. At the moment, the system is working best for producers and consumers. While I suspect producers are a little nervous about it. The way I see it is torrenting is like radio. You get to watch for free and then decide if you like it enough to buy.

Re:Will it ever stop?

[daniorerio]

Sounds a bit strange to me, how can they enforce a cap if it is not mentioned in a contract / user agreement? Seems to me that their scare tactics worked and they tricked you into paying more for a business connection while they have no legal basis to say that you were using too much bandwidth...

Some History here...

[initialE]

A bit of history here, could get long-winded.
The actual origins of the letter are a group of Japanese Anime Licensors, acting under the umbrella of a foreign distributor, Singapore-based Odex Pte Ltd, which itself provides local distribution of VCDs, DVDs and sublicensing for on-air distribution. They first started going after their own customer base, by obtaining lists of ISP customers through their ISPs, (and please note the ISPs themselves were so ignorant of their customers rights that they didn't really put up much of a challenge to the right to obtain customer data, but hey, lawsuits like this doesn't happen often in Singapore). Once having obtained the contact info of the customers they started issuing letters of demand to the individual customer themselves for the amounts of SGD3000-5000 in restitution, together with a promissory note not to do it again.
Of course, there are those who would say it was a fishing expedition, just to get the person to admit fault and become liable for prosecution (which would mean possible jail time under Singapore law).
In any case, the PR backlash was immense, it made the news, and anime communities around the world took note. In order to pursue the alleged infringer without compromising his identity, Odex is now attempting to use the ISP as it's middleman to communicate their demands to the ISP customer. Which is why the letter is sent from Comcast and not from Odex itself, the company is supposed not to know the exact details of the infringer.

http://xedodefense.org/articles.php?art_ID=3

Re:Some History here...

[Anonymous Coward]

ODEX isn't crap outside of Singapore. Comcast is a US ISP. Apples and oranges.

Re:Some History here...

[Anonymous Coward]

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=1260867#post1260867

Nonetheless, judging from the contact listed for these recent DMCA notices being served in Japan and France by BayTSP, it would seem Odex is indeed the party being represented by BayTSP (with themselves acting as an agent of a coalition of certain Japanese copyright holders). This seems likely to be part of the same campaign. They appear to be trying to position themselves as the **AA of the anime industry.

Re:Some History here...

[Anonymous Coward]

ODEX can do all it wants, it's efforts are meaningless outside of Singapore.

Re:Some History here...

[Grimbleton]

Actual power is based on perceived power.

Re:Some History here...

[Simple-Simmian]

Perceived power is zero for ODEX. We are talking about a company that took fansubs and used than as their own according to some. The crap ODEX can pull in Singapore it will not get away with in the US.

Re:Some History here...

[Megane]

Thanks to Comcrap hiding the name of who sent the notices, we had to wait until someone in France got hit up. Apparently it is Odex.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odex%27s_actions_against_file_sharing

(currently, the wiki page hasn't been uploaded, but I'm sure eventually someone will gather the info from the current drahmah and add it)

P.S. mod parent up!

Re:Some History here...

[mako1138]

Wow, Odex? This guy (a Singaporean anime blogger) has been ranting about Odex for a while. He even wrote them an open letter, and has a post about this latest nonsense.

Re:Some History here...

[initialE]

I was wondering why any company would shoot itself in the foot in such a way. The only explanation for me is that they are actually being coerced by the the same companies they license anime from - basically threatening to revoke their license if they didn't act as their fall guy and take all the bad PR. This has happened before - a company named BlueMax has had licensing rights revoked for not doing enough to combat unlicensed VCD releases. They're still in business though - there's enough anime out there that one revocation isn't going to break you.
Nontheless this is the reason why you can't sue through proxy - you can't have it both ways, getting the cake of receiving damages, and dodging the bad PR that it brings. So here are the companies that Odex represents - apparently the only anime that it actually licenses directly is for Gundam.

http://www.avpas.com.sg/AVPAS_Member.html

Associate Members

Aniplex Inc.
Asahi National Broadcasting Co., Ltd
Bandai Visual Co., Ltd
Dentsu Tec Inc.
Fuji Creative Corporation
Fuji Television Network, Inc
Gonzo Digimation Holding K.K.
Immg Pte Ltd
Kadokawa Shoten Publishing Co., Ltd.
Kadokawa Pictures, Inc.
King Records Co., Ltd.
KSS Inc.
Media Factory, Inc.
Muse Communication Co., Ltd.
Marvelous Entertainment Inc.
Nippon Animation Co., Ltd.
Nippon Television Network Corporation
Odex Pte Ltd
Pierrot Co., Ltd
Pony Canyon Inc.
Sojitz Corporation
Sunrise Inc.
Toshiba Entertainment Inc.
Tatsunoko Production Co., Ltd
TBS Service, Inc.
Television Tokyo Channel 12, Ltd
Toei Animation Enterprises Limited
TV Tokyo Medianet Co., Ltd
Yomiuri Telecasting Corporation

Authorisation from other Licensors

Geneon Entertainment, Inc.
Kodansha Ltd.
Media International Corporation
Shogakukan Production Co., Ltd
Tokuma Shoten Publishing Co., Ltd
Victor Entertainment, Inc.

simply stupid

[marxzed]

I'll just make this simple statement. blocking downloads of unlicensed anime is the business equivalent of shooting your self, not just in the foot, but in your head. The sheer volume of anime released in such a wide and various number of genre is such that torrents and other hosting is about the only way you can get an idea of what will work out side of Japan. OK there are the sure fire hits like Full Metal Alc, Death Note and Bleach, but stuff like FLCL? Dead Leaves? Azumanga Daioh? who would have though those would have worked out side Japan?? And if the show works then it's these downloaders, the ones who've gone past the first couple of episodes and not gone (nope this is not for me) that are the first to buy the DVD's, the collector's box set, the manga, the official figurines, posters etc etc etc... and they'll probably still watch it on cable/fta anyway (even if only to see how much the offical english translation & voice overs blow.

Re:There is no "draw" to anime. It's not popular.

[Fourier404]

The fact that Japanese shows (albeit domestically dubbed and altered) get weekly airtime at all means that it has to be pretty dang popular.

Notices.. unnecessary or even spoofed?

[plasmacutter]

first off, the lack of the actual copyright holder and contact information make me call into question whether it's actually a legitimate complaint or one of those BS spoofs that have been sent by various companies and private parties over the years to gag individuals they don't like.

the thread in question speaks of baytsp, which has a long history of underhanded legally questionable tactics in their pursuits of general p2p discouragement.

The other option is fraudulent emails sent by parties who dislike animesuki or what it stands for and are sending fake notices to either comcast or directly to the user with spoofed comcast addresses.

either way others in this response column have pointed out it's not valid.

But I personally want to point out that by the time such a notice arrived as an email the user was likely to have terminated the torrent in the first place... de facto compliance.

compliance with the DMCA and other laws therefore does NOT violate comcast TOS.

Ah, the free market

[SmallFurryCreature]

I see some people come up with the logical question, why still use comcast. Because we have no choice people reply. But aren't you americans, the country of the free market that should ensure plenty of competition? How come I as a socialist live in a country with multiple ISP's whose competition is mandated by the goverment, creating a free market and ensuring that any ISP that tried to pull this will be out of business very soon (it is very hard here to even find an ISP who still uses traffic limits other then the speed of your connection)

Shut up the reply then usually is.

Americans seem to be brainwashed when it comes to the free market, they been told that goverment regulation is bad and will scream about it at every opportunity but are totally unable to regonize the results of it.

If comcast is truly the only alternative in some areas, then that is clear evidence the free market does not work. WIth current tech there should be at least two options, cable and adsl, in all areas, using the cable and phone network that any reasonable goverment should have mandated should be available to all homes.

With both networks it is also trivial to mandate open access so that there is a difference between the company operating the cable and the actual ISP.

Is there truly no alternative to comcast (an ISP that charges tripple for a better service DOES count as an alternative, quality costs money) and if so, why are americans so utterly incapable of spotting that this is wrong and needs to be fixed, by the state, because IF it is true it is clear evidence that the free market doesn't work.

I can predict right now that this post will be modded down by an american who just cannot accept that the free market don't work, and get comments spouting why goverment interference is bad without actually ever touching the end result, that in goverment regulated areas people got choice and freedom, and in free areas people have restricitons and are at the whim of their ISP.

Re:Ah, the free market

[tsotha]

Actually, most utilities in the United States are regulated monopolies. In my area we only have one source for water, electricity, gas, and (wired) phone service. I have the choice of two cable providers, but that's very unusual. In most places the cable company has a monopoly. If Americans have faith in the free market, one of the reasons is we have to deal with regulated monopolies like the cable company. Next time please check your assumptions before you start ranting.

Re:Ah, the free market

[IgnoramusMaximus]

That is missing the point.

In the USA (and Canada) the government regulation seems to be designed to achieve the exact opposite of what it is designed to do elsewhere.

In most regulated places, the government mandates that the cables and conduits (for which there is physically limited space and thus something akin to natural monopoly can develop) are operated by a government regulated entity (sometimes the government itself) and many (as in more then 2) companies coexist on the same cable+conduit system competing on delivery, service, price etc, while paying a small usage fee to the government run cable operator. This is virtually the same idea as with the electrical grid, where it is simply impractical to allow competition on the construction of power lines as a chaotic system would develop with multiple companies attempting to run inefficient, parallel sets of lines. That is why the government runs the power grid and private power companies use it to deliver their electricity to their customers.

This system asures maximum competition by lowering the barriers to entry for all players and putting the contested and difficult to manage area in the hands of an impartial entitiy (everyone gets charged the same usage fee) which is well equipped (financially and resource-wise) to deal with it.

Or to put it another way: think roads and cars. Roads are the responsiblity of governments but the cars on them are private.

In the US and Canada, the idea seems to be to fork over the entire pie (delivery+contents) to some "winner takes all" crony, thus assuring no competition of any kind. The term for this is "crony capitalism" and it is a disaster. It has the distinguishing feature of achieving nothing from the point of view of "socialists" and also from the point of view of free-marketeers. A complete fiasco on all accounts, except for the crony in question of course.

Re:Ah, the free market

[E 99]

I see some people come up with the logical question, why still use comcast. Because we have no choice people reply. But aren't you americans, the country of the free market that should ensure plenty of competition? How come I as a socialist live in a country with multiple ISP's whose competition is mandated by the goverment, creating a free market and ensuring that any ISP that tried to pull this will be out of business very soon... If comcast is truly the only alternative in some areas, then that is clear evidence the free market does not work. WIth current tech there should be at least two options, cable and adsl, in all areas, using the cable and phone network that any reasonable goverment should have mandated should be available to all homes.

I use Comcast because it is the best value available to me. I have at least two other broadband options offered by my phone company (Verizon), DSL and FiOS. If there were a reasonably priced service that provided higher upload speeds, I would switch to that. Meanwhile, I am glad that Comcast protects what upload bandwidth it has by limiting bittorrent uploads.

I don't know what socialist country you're from, but it sounds like it's one of those tiny ones that an ISP could completely wire with a single spool of cable. Many Europeans have no sense of how large America is. It's really really big. Some places are very sparsely populated. Even a giant company like Comcast is unable to cover the whole country. No single cable or phone company covers the whole country. So there are some areas where the regional phone companies don't yet offer DSL service. There are even some very remote areas where no broadband is available. Heck, my in-laws just built a cabin out in the woods where there is not even phone or power service.

Sure, the state governments could decide to force the region phone companies to provide DSL to everyone, regardless of the cost to the phone companies. The thing is, that most of us Americans are very jealous of our rights, and of the proper limitations of governmental power -- always have been. Practically and philosophically, there is no difference between a government compelling an individual to do something, and compelling a corporation of individuals to do something. If they can do one, they can do the other. So generally, the specter of the government compelling a corporation to offer a service is a repugnant thing to us -- more repugnant than not having a choice in broadband providers.

Re:Ah, the free market

[Rexdude]

Government regulation becomes necessary in the case of large service providers; in any event, whenever there's a danger of monopoly or oligopoly.
In India, mobile operators have been kept in line by the Telecom Regulatory Authority of India (TRAI). For example, TRAI decreed that operators should charge for call time and not airtime, which implies not charging for incoming calls/messages. This move single handedly boosted the growth of mobile phone usage in India. Additionally, from time to time, TRAI has prosecuted operators for including hidden charges in their services and so on-so some amount of legislation is needed in such cases. Best example is the antitrust case against Microsoft.

Re:Ah, the free market

[Logic and Reason]

Americans seem to be brainwashed when it comes to the free market, they been told that goverment regulation is bad and will scream about it at every opportunity...

This is completely, utterly wrong. Have you even talked to an American recently? Most of us are just as ga-ga for government intervention as are people in other, supposedly more "socialist" countries. Sure, we sometimes pay lip service to the concept of "limited government," but just look at our two ruling parties: both strive for bigger and bigger government, and they reflect what people want.

As for your flamebait about "this proves the free market sucks!", why don't you tell us what country you are from, and what the population density is where you live? I'd bet that places in the U.S. with a similar population density have at least as much choice in the broadband market as you do.

Re:Ah, the free market

[tsotha]

No, I don't think I missed the point at all. To sum up the original post - "you Americans think the free market solves everything. See, it doesn't!"

I was simply pointing out this has nothing to do with the free market, as utilities are typically regulated monopolies. Now, I would agree with you when you say these monopolies could be regulated much better, but that wasn't the argument I was responding to.

Re:Ah, the free market

[Anonymous Coward]

what you say is true america shoulda have more then 1 or 2 choices in diffrent cable companies. the thing you dont understand is that america's population is spread out alot more then other country's. we have people in every part of every state but alaska and some parts of texas and a couple of other state's. I mean why would 2 or 3 cable companys each spend a couple of million dollars each to lay the cable or put towers up to reach a population size that wouldnt pay that money back that they invest in that area for over 10 years.

it just doesnt make much sense to do that so most company's instead bid on that coverage area and or be like i get this part of that state and you guys can get that part of that state. i mean come on think about it their is so much area in the states to cover that it isnt worth it to cover all that area with 2 or 3 company's. then you go over, lets say sweden were that whole country witch is smaller then half the states in the us. and it covers 4 to 5 times more people in that area then in those states. then it would make sense to have 2 or 3 companys or more, but it just doesnt work that way in the us for area/population/multi company ratios to make money or for it to be some what effective.

most people will pay that extra 40 or 50 bucks to get dsl or cable rather then get stuck with a 56k modem were u cant even make a phone call when in use.

yeah the free market is not truely a free market but at the same time it is a free market all you need is the skills and the drive to get into that market and firmly put your foot in that door and push on to make it in that market.

Re:Ah, the free market

[Anonymous Coward]

the thing you dont understand is that america's population is spread out alot more then other country's.

hello from australia. land of faster broadband than you schmucks can get (sadly with data limits)

Re:Ah, the free market

[cyberjock1980]

My problem with the post: Why on god's great earth are we having to rely on goverment regulation to maintain free trade in the US?

Re:Ah, the free market

[turbofisk]

Well... In a unregulated market (free market), there tends to be some consolidation... Which in turn turns into a monopoly. Which leads to Comcast, AT&T etc raping their customers. Choice is the best remedy. Having someone watching over the market and slapping them in the face when you try to either establish a monopoly or oligopoly. Actually I'd like the representatives of the people to actually stand up for us and not the corporations.

Re:Ah, the free market

[Anonymous Coward]

The free market does work. The problem is that there isn't and has never been a free market for broadband Internet service in the United States. The cable companies and phone companies have government mandated monopolies. Unfortunately our government refuses to recognize that there is a problem in this area, and thus the exploitation continues.

Re:Ah, the free market

[Timinithis]

In all actuality, telephone and cable service are provided by franchises granted by the city/local government. The market my be free, but the entry is controlled not by market forces, but by bureaucratic tape. A company that currently does not provide service must apply to the local government for the right to provide service -- even a company that is already well established in other areas. I live in DC. We have for internet, either Comcast for Cable, or Verizon for DSL. Those were the only choices when I moved in, and 2 years later, they are still the only choices. There is a new company, RCN, that is slowly working its way across DC, but it is not in my area, and will not be until 2009 most likely. And Verizon FiOS? Not even in the district -= they can't get the franchise from what I understand at last check -- it is available in every area around DC in Virginia and Maryland, but not within the District itself.

I would love to have unfettered access to use the internet as I choose -- listen to foreign radio, watch YouTube for 24 hours 7 days straight, pull down the latest ISO build of any distro I wanted (I have 4 PCs, I want to see which runs best on each one, or what ever).

The government and the bureaucracy IS what determines what ISP/service I am able to access.

I listen to Virgin Radio, and I hear in the UK you can get Tele(TV for us Americans)/Phone and internet for 19 quid. Is that good service/bundle? I know that is on par with our $50 for the bundle.

Right now, I am using Sprint Mobile Broadband. I am supposed to have unlimited access, but I keep my usage down to 1GB down or less a day -- by choice. I do not even have Cable TV in the house -- I cut COmcast off 100%.

Re:Ah, the free market

[stry_cat]

Actually the problem with cable competition in America is the government. It is the government that sets up "franchises" which are de facto licenses to be a monopoly. For example look what the City of Richmond is doing to the local upstart, Caviler Telephone

If we actually had a free market in America this wouldn't be a problem. Unfortunately, the powerful folks have gotten the government to make it illegal to compete against them.

Re:Ah, the free market

[Anonymous Coward]

hello from australia. land of faster broadband than you schmucks can get (sadly with data limits)

This would be relevant, if Australia's population was spread out. But it isn't.

Re:Ah, the free market

[evanbd]

What you discuss is fundamentally the difference between a competitive market and an unregulated (or improperly regulated) market. Here in the US, there seems to be much confusion about the difference. The problem arises that in markets with heavy infrastructure costs, there is a "natural monopoly" -- that is, it is more efficient for only one company to build the infrastructure, so left to its own devices the market is dominated by a single monopoly player.

The solution is exactly what you describe. Separate the infrastructure from the service run on top of it, mandate fair pricing practices, and prohibit the infrastructure owners from abusing their monopoly to gain power in another market.

I believe the problem is not a failure of a free market, but rather a failure to create an environment in which a free market can exist. (Some libertarians and economists will disagree with me, but I don't think it makes sense to call a market free when there are significant restrictions on it, whether those restrictions are imposed by the government or a corporation. You can have a free market with a monopoly player, and you can have a free competitive market. But when a player in the market has power derived from an external source -- either the government, or a monopoly in some other market -- then that market is no longer free, regardless of whether it is the government imposing the restrictions or not. A semantic distinction, perhaps, but I think an important one.)

Why do many Americans have trouble seeing this? I don't know. Somehow many have trouble seeing this, and our politicians don't take it upon themselves to act responsibly when their constituency doesn't demand it. I would dearly love to know what other countries do differently that seemingly produces more competent politicians. (I realize none are perfect, but it keeps seeming that other countries manage to have smarter, more thoughtful politicians than the US normally does. With obvious exceptions all around.)

Re:Ah, the free market

[pyr3]

The problem in the United States is government interference. It's true that in a lot of cases the free market tends towards a single monopoly. Microsoft is a good example of that. The Telco/Cable companies are not.

The Telco/Cable companies for years were granted government regulated monopolies. Ma Bell even had guaranteed profits at one point, IIRC. In all of those years of living high off the hog, they've done a few things:

1) Built up a large communications infrastructure. The Telcos have their copper telephone lines (that are being/have been replaced with fibre). The Cable companies with their coax lines (that are being/have been replaced with fibre).

2) Gain money and power.

They use all that money and power to keep their infrastructure fresh (though that's somewhat debatable) and to squash competition. Right now the barrier to entry for other companies to compete is that initial amount of money it would take to build up the infrastructure needed to compete with the big players.

It has less to do with "Communism vs the Free Market" and more to do with the government giving some companies an unfair advantage. That's why it's laughable when companies like AT&T or Comcast whine about "keeping a free market" when the idea of government regulation comes around. It's easy to say "we should decide who wins by way of a 100m sprint" when you know that you're the fastest sprinter because you've been pumping up on steroids.

Re:Ah, the free market

[brkello]

I'd mod you down just because you could make your point without being insulting about it. I don't agree with you, but I wouldn't mod you down for that. Free markets and government regulated markets both have their flaws and pitfalls and are ripe for abuse.

In most areas (well, all that I know of except in rural areas that have few choices due to location), there is competition. Cable tends to be the fastest, affordable method so we put up with it despite it being evil (and many get their television through it as well). So yes, there are alternatives but you have to make some sacrifices if you leave them (mainly speed).

I don't know if you have been to the U.S. before, but maybe you should come some time. It seems you have bought in to the negative stereotype of Americans that seems to be popular these days. We are people just like you that have different opinions on every topic and just want to live happy lives. If you are judging how people are by web forums and our current President...then you have no clue what Americans actually believe.

Re:Ah, the free market

[dogs4ar]

I don't think the person from the Socialist country is being insulting. He/She is just pointing out that for a supposedly "free" country the U.S. has a lot of restrictions. I don't really want to start a flame war, but looking at the religious backgrounds of the presidential candidates, and the fact that religion plays such a crucial role in our politics is just one example.

What seems to be happening is that at the beginning of the 21st century, the U.S. had a fairly robust broadband infrastructure. Companies were rolling out DSL and Cable Internet, there were multiple ISP's, and some companies were even investing in fiber. We have fallen far behind the rest of the world, in the meantime.

The poster from a Socialist country pointed out that in his/her country, the retail and wholesale broadband markets were separate. In other words, one company built out the physical infrastructure, be it copper wires, co-ax, fiber, satellite, or my personal favorite: Morse-code firing flashlight/lasers. Then another company would lease that "line" to the retail customer: the actual end-user. Unfortunately, we don't have that model. Instead, we have the model of the railroad company: they own the network, and charge everybody who wants to use it a "tax" to get on. Now, if there were multiple competing companies attempting to vie for the same pool of customers, and they needed to compete on service and features, fine, that would work out. Unfortunately, we have "natural monopolies" which aren't natural at all, but stem from the backwards regulatory framework that we have here.

As for the claim that America is so huge, someone from Europe couldn't possibly understand what this place is all about: there was a time when universal telephone service was considered a right. Ma Bell was forced to connect unprofitable communities. Bell did this by collecting more money from the cities than the company could spend there, and spent the income on rural build-out. Bell also got direct infusions of cash from the government. Now, the same companies that profited off the backs of all of us are crying poverty again. I don't believe them. If they really wanted to compete for the rural market, they'd build out, and tell everyone what a good job they're doing, and get brownie-points. Instead, they pretty much ignore the rural market. They play games like "If one person in your zip code is served by broadband, that means everybody in your community is served." Kinda reminds me of the days where everyone was huddled around the radio, listening to FDR (no, actually, I don't have that memory, but I've seen pictures, and I don't want to go back to those days).

Also, this "we're too poor to do proper broadband in the country" excuse does not explain the lack of muli-megabit broadband offerings in the city. In Seoul and Tokyo, the average broadband speed is 43Mbps and 93Mbps. That's ridiculously high compared to what you can get in New York, L.A., or San Francisco. But San Francisco is supposed to be the most wired city in America! What gives? For the answer, you need look no further than AT&T and Comcast. We need a policy change at the highest level. (Well, OK, first we need to get rid of the FCC, but that's another story). First, we need to separate the wholesale and retail markets. The people building the roads should not be the ones renting the cars. Next, there should be incentives for serving under-served communities. Maybe the government should pay a premium for rural customers. I know, this could only lead to waste and fraud as multiple lines are run out to BFE (look it up) and "ghost subscribers" are created for the purposes of that subsidy. Universal phone service was supposed to work. Let's give this a shot, and see if we can get real universal broadband to real customers.

Unfortunately, the Socialist model may be best, in this case. There are too many incentives to "cheat" and currently, there is too much profit in providing that last mile. Broadband has to be de-mys

why?

[rice_burners_suck]

anime is so stupid. why would anyone waste time torrenting this?

Re:There is no "draw" to anime. It's not popular.

[marxzed]

given the general rule is "take a good show and ruin it with total shitville translation and voiceover" (cowboy Bebop being one of the few exceptions), and the all to frequent butchering of the plot (and frequent digital re imaging) to be as sanitised as all the other (American) crap that oozes from our tv sets no wonder..., when they watch it it's just to laugh at the butchery. Honestly I don't even own a TV these days... I voted with my feet.

And now we know...

[n dot l]

...that Comcast is apparently in charge of Gundam.

Re:Will it ever stop?

[kaos07]

Wait wait wait. So apparently government regulation is bad because you end up with one company controlling all the copper/fibre (Eg. Telstra in Australia) and then the free-market system is bad because "they've" allowed their market to be dominated by a few ISP's? I'm not sure exactly who "they" are but if you mean consumers I'm not sure how much say they have in which multi-billion dollar publicly listed telco's prove service in their area and how they communicated with each other. For me the answer is simple. Regulation, but opposite to what we have now. Instead of laws designed to protect business, how about laws to protect the freedom and privacy of the consumer? Considering the other options have been proven flawed in this case it seems this strikes a balance.

Don't lump me with the 35% which are dumb as dirt.

[plasmacutter]

I'm under no illusions the american market is not free. I remember reading sometime around '03 that america had fallen off the list of the top 10 freest markets in the world. I despise how almost every industry receives legal protection against real competition, how any disruptive products are outlawed before they leave the womb.

only about 60 million participated in the last presidential election, of those circa 50% voted for the idiots who continued to preach about the fallacious free market.

The "on the ground" reality is most americans I talk to are really pissed about how corporate power is being centralized, how oligopoly and monopoly have crept in and are choking consumer wallets and choice to death.

The problem is our constitution, which requires a "majority" of electoral votes to become president rather than simply the greatest number... it locks us into a two party system. You won't get choice in the economy if you don't get choice in the government which presides over it.

If I became president I'd take action on this, among other important things such as finding a graceful way to step down from this worldwide military hegemony which is bleeding the nation dry.

For this reason I will never be elected.

This needs a modup.. and someone call the news..

[plasmacutter]

I think it's time to assemble a paper trail and call the news again about criminal violations of international copyright laws.

they have no right to pre-emptively "protect" anything they haven't licensed yet, and their licenses are not relevant to the nations they're serving notices in.

Re:Will it ever stop?

[pat mcguire]

"In my area it's Comcast and Qwest. Qwests prices are significantly higher than Comcast." That's because Qwest is considerably better. I'm a Qwest subscriber (well, it's a tiny little regional ISP that's located entirely within Qwest infrastructure, so I think it counts) I can tell on all my torrents the difference - I certainly don't have the fastest internet connection in the world, but the pattern is certainly interesting: within the first minute the download speeds rocket up to saturation and then divebomb as all my connections are cut (I verified this in Firestarter), while upload speeds stay steadily high. I am going to make a conjecture here, but since upload bandwidth is by far the more precious commodity due to to way the internet infrastructure is constructed, it's justified: qwest doesn't throttle as much as other internet providers, and at the very least it doesn't break connections. Now, you may pay more for this, but it's not suprising, considering that you're actually using the bandwidth. Also, Qwest is the only ISP that gave the finger to the NSA during the illegal wiretapping [that we know about]. Which, by the way, is the best reason to oppose retroactive immunity - there are good companies that suffered to follow the law.

No, they haven't

[SmallFurryCreature]

First there are two laws at work here. The first is obvious, anime/manga is subject to copyright just like any other creative work. Just because it comes from japan (or anywhere else) does not change that.

Second is the issue that it is NOT legal to make a translation of something without permission from the original creator. If I translate your post, that could land me in legal trouble. The law is a bit idiotic as it is broken the moment a reader translates something in his own mind to his native tongue. It also conflicts with most countries own laws on accesibility, translating for instance for the hearing impaired into sign language or in braille for the sight impaired.

Nonetheless, providing a translation of a copyrighted work is by itself illegal.

Now for the position of 'some' anime/manga producers from japan on the subject of foreigners distributing their work with subtitels. They ignore it. Some individual authors have expressed themselves more clearly, but as far as I know no company has ever uttered a statement on the subject OTHER then that they were against it. Any official statement that says otherwise would have the lawyers shitting themselves.

Why? It would mean they would also have to tolerate domestic redistribution of their work by fans. No japanese court would accept a claim by a anime/manga company against japanese filesharers if they given an official statement that it is okay for the rest of the world.

This is in fact the problem, the fansub community has become so big, so reliable and so good that the japanese themselves now use them as their source for 'illegal' downloads. This obviously upsets some companies, and is changing the attitude to fansubs, it is no longer just a few otaku's who share homemade vhs tapes. Some of the subs are in fact of better quality then the commercial release because fansubs are not restricted to the horrible subtitle system of DVD's and can use all kinds of fancy tricks like overlays and color and multiple subs to truly translate and explain what is going on. Plus, well, most commericial subs just plain suck as they get even simple things wrong such as the first name, last name order and use the wrong one in the subs even if the correct name is an essential part of the plot.

Speed is another issue, fansubs are done in days, at times hours. By the time the offical release ever happens, the fan community will have moved on. The idea that you watch the first few eps fansubbed and get the rest on DVD just ain't real anymore, by the time the official western version is out, the fans will have fixed the few errors in the subs, rereleased it with the japanese DVD's as the source including promo's and tv specials and you would have to be very dedicated to buy it on dvd. With bad subs, and always the threat of censoring.

So how come japanese companies still haven't openly attacked this? Well some have, and send out copyright notices immidiatly regardless of wether it has been licensed in the west.

But there is a part of it that goes against japanese culture.

This is turning into a long rant but the first is relatively simple, japanese anime and manga is often far more directly produced by the creators then in the west. They want to produce their work, and don't care about all the legal crap. Just like not all music artist in the west care about filesharing, they are too busy with their art to worry about it. This however is changing as the nature of fansubbing has changed and become far more proffesional. Most material can't be licensed anyway, because it deals with subjects you could never broadcast on western television (well US television anyway) or because it just too specific to japan (Card Captor Sakura was carefully editited in its western release to remove all traces of the series actually being set in japan). In short when you got a small business to run, that is constant on the edge of bankruptcy you got other things to do about then worry what some foreigners are up to.

That neatly leads to the

Re:No, they haven't

[stormguard2099]

Can I mod this down as too informative?
All jokes aside good post though

Re:No, they haven't

[Anonymous Coward]

You sort of sidestepped the central issue here: While somebody may not have purchased or announced that they have purchased the rights to dub/sub distribute a show, the show itself is copyrighted and IS "owned" and otherwise represented in the US by either the anime company themselves (yes they have offices here) or by sales agents -who have to own certain rights in order to resell the show- or by any number of other distributors who may not be the Name Brand Video company names we all know and love/hate.

The moment an anime show is made, it's "owned" by somebody on US soil. It might be the Sunrise or Toei L.A. offices -but so what. For purposes of law, that is good enough.

The copyright part also exists the moment a show is made because the US recognizes Japanese copyrights.

Personally, I bet the complainant is JASRAC. They along have the legal standing to make these sorts of DMCA complaints since they rep everyone and everything, or nearly so. The companies themselves haven't show much interest in chasing downloaders but JASRAC has, including the repeated suits against YouTube.

Re:No, they haven't

[sanjacguy]

Back when dinosaurs roamed the earth, and I was in college, I got a chance to join and play with an anime club. I still have the marks - anyway... I helped out with a fan sub, we had a library that people checked out tapes from, and had six hour drives to the regional all weekend long copy sessions. The way we'd copy them was to chain a whole bunch of VCRs together and have somebody play a master tape. Whoever went to the copy session would then drive the six hours back and enter the tapes into our library. The new tapes were hoarded until the weekly session and then we'd watch the shows.

I suspect that the amount of work required to bring new content to the US was very large compared to the level of profit (or lack thereof) for the effort to be worthwhile. With the advent of bittorrent being used to distribute fan subs, it's a heck of a lot easier to distribute and you get (in theory anyway) a higher quality of goods, with a much wider distribution network.

As a hardcore RPG player, I'm dismayed by the amount of space manga has eaten up in your average bookstore, but it's the same thing that's driving this move to lockdown fan-subbing - there's a market now and the company wants you to pay for it in money. You used to have to pay for it in effort.

You can thank my bad memory for all the oil we have now - I kept forgetting where I buried the bodies. Now, GET OFF MY LAWN!!

Re:No, they haven't

[discord5]

As a hardcore RPG player, I'm dismayed by the amount of space manga has eaten up in your average bookstore, but it's the same thing that's driving this move to lockdown fan-subbing - there's a market now and the company wants you to pay for it in money. You used to have to pay for it in effort.

As someone who loves comics (and I count manga to be a comic, sue me) and to some lesser extent RPGs, what really startles me is the slow but certain rise of collectible games. You'll usually find them as card games (eg. pokemon, magic) and sometimes as board games that come in different sets. They've been slowly taking over more and more space in specialized "book stores" (perhaps comic/gaming store is more appropriate).

Manga have been on the rise for the past couple of years in the local specialized shops, but I think most people use amazon or whatever localized alternative floats their boat. The bulk of comics is still strips and comics, with manga being a minority. I had a talk with a local shopkeep about what he sells most and he told me that the games sell better than comics, with RPGs being on the decline and collectible games always on the rise. To tell you the truth, I'd rather not be the proprietor of such a shop. Battling against amazon and other online bookstores price-wise is an impossible task, and having to rely primarily on games and kids buying comics seems awfully risky.

I've noticed however that in the past couple of years, online specialized manga stores are booming (as far as you can boom selling comics). A "local" website started by a couple of geeks in their basement in 2001, seems to have survived and their catalogue has become quite huge. They've gone from selling manga and DVDs to selling figurines, posters, etc etc etc. Their stock is impressive, and most of their goods are not in backorder which either means they know they're going to be able to sell it, or they'd be making a loss. Public records for the company show that they're a healthy company however, much to my surprise (since I do believe that manga and anime are a very niche market).

Hey now wait a minute!

[erroneus]

You can get a license to torrent!?

Re:Don't lump me with the 35% which are dumb as di

[Anonymous Coward]

If I became president I'd take action on this, among other important things such as finding a graceful way to step down from this worldwide military hegemony which is bleeding the nation dry.

Bleeding which nation dry? Iraq? Afghanistan? Oh, you meant the USA. Trust me: the bleeding -- both literal and metaphorical -- is coming from the poor sods you decided to "liberate".

Re:Will it ever stop?

[QuantumG]

The way the Australian government regulates Telstra, forcing them to open the copper/fibre to competitors, is an example of the kind of regulation needed in the US, yes.

Really bad title on this one

[Huntr]

Comcast isn't "targetting" these people. Comcast gets a complaint, they pass it on to their subscriber - that's the way they do things. The point of this article really is that some other entity, Odex according to the FA, is targetting these anime torrents.

Comcast's only role in this is their usual douche baggery.

Re:Really bad title on this one

[stormguard2099]

Mod this up. The article has included a few updates claiming that it's not just Comcast and it's not even just in the US. Odex got a french company to issue a DCMA or something along those lines to a citizen over there over another unlicensed anime.

Re:Will it ever stop?

[Squalish]

Capitalism CAN work - if competition is possible in the given market, both physically(line access/linesharing are examples) and realistically (roughly equal service).
Socialism CAN work - if the administrators are somehow accountable to their customers, and respect them (and if they are privately owned, are heavily regulated by people who care).

They currently aren't working very well in areas where someone has a natural, purchased, or politically imposed monopoly, and legislators find it difficult to care about things they are too old to understand. Anything invented after you turn 35 is wholly unnatural.

Re:Don't lump me with the 35% which are dumb as di

[PipianJ]

The problem is our constitution, which requires a "majority" of electoral votes to become president rather than simply the greatest number... it locks us into a two party system. You won't get choice in the economy if you don't get choice in the government which presides over it.

It's not the electoral system. Only one person can hold the singular political office that is the Presidency. If you're complaining about the two-party system, look at the first-past-the-post system we use to elect people to office. Proportional Representation systems would fix this in the legislatures, and instant-runoff voting can somewhat ameliorate the issues in the cases where we still can only elect one person (e.g. the Presidency)

The real problem with this concept, however, is threefold:

1. The politicians will never allow something that weakens their power to get reelected (and thus, anything that weakens the two-party system. This is why it's so hard for third-parties to even get on the ballot, and why many states still have closed primaries, despite the benefits to the public to allow open ones)

2. The public has an investment in having a representative they can point to and say 'that's my representative' and when, in trouble, can ask for help getting through government issues, etc.

3. Groups that are already represented by a minority (e.g. small states like Wyoming and Rhode Island in the House) will be completely ignored because their several hundred thousand votes are now positioned relative to the 'nation' and hence, irrelevant compared to the millions of voters in New York and California. This same argument is also used to defend the Electoral College, because otherwise, small states would be irrelevant for candidates to pander to or listen to.

Re:Will it ever stop?

[Squalish]

This presents you with the situation where your contract is being unilaterally voided because someone else failed to use more banwidth than you, putting you in the top 10% of bandwidth users.

Consumer protection laws are gonna need some additions after the '08 and '10 elections, if there are any left by then.

Re:Fuck you

[Goldberg's Pants]

Yeah, "FUCK YOU!"

We'll show him!

Oh, forgot to hit "Post Anonymously". Whoops...

Getting rid of bandwidth hogs...

[psychicsword]

Looks like they are trying to get rid of all the people who truely use their network to its full potential(like me). This is another stike against comcast and why I distrust these companies more and more each day. Even if it is just a scaretactic I still dont like how they don't care for their customers. I just want the latest episode of bleach and naruto. It isn't my fault it takes for ever for it to come out on DVD so I can get it here in America and then it isn't guarantee to have English subs and then you need to wait years for it to be dubbed and then it has terrible voice acting as is apperent in the english version of naruto. So I am being forced by the system to download it from Dattebayo or similar. I will continue doing it regardless but now I have more reason to get off of my comcast connection.

Re:Will it ever stop?

[ceeam]

lolwut? You download video (like anime) over dial-up?! Dude, you've got some patience there.

Short Comcast?

[Usquebaugh]

Would seem every time a company resorts to suing customers it's in dire straights.

I like anime...

[stormguard2099]

ok guys, mod me up now just like the others. what? the article isn't about how cool/lame anime is? You go on to say its about a company called comcast who is filtering content? Oh, then the article must be about how Comcast is filtering anime because they don't like it... WHAT!? the article has nothing to do with the popularity of anime OR reasons for liking anime?
There's a reason there is an offtopic tag for posts. If the editor wanted to start a dicussion on why anime is cool/lame they would have posted a different aricle.

Re:Will it ever stop?

[ednopantz]

I suspect the ISP's reaction to losing high bandwidth, low revenue customers would be: bye!
Customers download almost nothing, yet pay for an always on connection are the customers they want. Anime fans who keep Mom's modem tied up at 100% capacity day in day out downloading the latest thing use a lot of resources and generate little revenue.

Simple, it's not true

[Anonymous Coward]

THe letters are probably just another hoax. Why would comcast focus on such a useless group of media downloaders when hollywood is losing 'billions'. That makes little sense.

They Throttled Me

[vixen337]

I know this is kind of off topic, but apparently I've been blacklisted by Comcast for just uploading a hard drive back-up to Mozy.com.

I sent them an email and requested to know the bandwidth limits so I can stick to them from now on, instead of them just throttling me without warning.

We'll see how that goes over. I'm expecting a form letter back.

Re:Don't lump me with the 35% which are dumb as di

[Dunbal]

Bleeding .... is coming from the poor sods you decided to "liberate".

Which is why everyone is dumping the US dollar.

Re:Will it ever stop?

[aussie_a]

Its the latest protection racket. Pay us or we'll whine at you.

The just want their money for nothing

[kennylogins]

nm

No more common carrier

[sherriw]

I'm sure this has been said, but if Comcast is going to set themselves up as the police of pirated Anime movies... then they are now responsible for enforcing all other laws such as child porn, internet predators, all pirated materials, etc, etc. They better be careful what they're doing- they may be targeting these anime shows as a not-so-sneaky way of going after bittorrent traffic in general, but they're soon going to be expected to watch for non-bittorrent illegal traffic. You can't pick and choose which laws to enforce.

How can anyone remain a comcast customer knowing that comcase is peering into every bit that you send and receive? It disgusts me. Where's the privacy protection. Comcast provides voice service too right? Are they scanning that too? If not, why not? Sheesh, get out people.

Hey how about this

[koan]

Based on that letter how about you 1: log into TOR or A proxy grab the torrent file, then 2: how about people that upload not name the archive after the god damn show (Duh?) then 3: just for the fun of it, how about you encrypt the archive in addition.
If they don't know what it is it's pretty hard to determine if DMCA needs to be sent out.

Re:Will it ever stop?

[u-235-sentinel]

Now, since I'm a business class user, they expect traffic levels they would see from a business that has anywhere from a few computers to fifty computers. Now 300 Gb/mo doesn't seem so high when you compare it to one of the sites I do contracting for--they have 40 workstations, 3 servers, and are constantly transferring high res x-rays to other sites.

The only part that pissed me off about Comcast calling was that they simply never told me of their magical cap, and they refused to tell me what it was--just that I had run over it.

I would have had no problem if they flat out told me their rates and caps--like 500 Gb for $80/mo.

I upgraded to their business class also but they shut it down saying I needed to upgrade to their enterprise class (think that's what they called it). Oh and that's cheap for only $10,000 to install the line and about $2,000 a month.

Yeah, I had the same response and asked if they were on crack when they quoted me that price.

I'm going for Fiber to the home when it comes... someday.

Re:Will it ever stop?

[HAKdragon]

l2english! He said the GP meant that the only choice that many people have is one (maybe two) high speed connection in their area; the only other option being dial-up.

Re:Will it ever stop?

[russ1337]

Exactly. Similar concept to how Copyright Law was used to create Creative Commons. Legislation could be passed to ensure freedom of the networks.

Unfortunately, the people who would need to pass this legislation are influenced more by the corporations than the citizens they are supposed to represent.

The companies are too slow to act

[MobyDisk]

Every time this issue comes up I ask the same question: "How come a fansub group can record the show, sub it, and distribute it in 48 hours while it takes the company 3-5 years to do the same thing?" I understand that it takes time to create DVDs and find distributors and ship them overseas and such. Bu the timelines are ridiculous. If it took 3 months then I could understand. But I watch most anime as a fansub years before a watered-down English dub is available on Cartoon Network, and even more years pass before a subtitled DVD is out. By the time it is on DVD, I'm going "oh yeah, I remember that one! And usually, the fansub is still better."

It seems to me that this is cartel-style control along the lines of region protection. The companies forcably delay a cheap and easy process for years, then complain when the fans can meet the demand themselves faster than the copyright holders. And the Japanese companies are finding themselves in the same situation as the RIAA/MPAA in that now they are going to have to start battling their own best customers.

Re:The companies are too slow to act

[echocharlie]

The companies that release the anime in the US are not the same companies that own the license in Japan in most cases. You're not comparing apples to apples. American licensees could produce subs as quickly as the fan community if:

1. They didn't have to worry about license negotiation and paying fees
2. They had translators, editors, graphics artists who haven't been allocated to other projects
3. They didn't have to work from master sources
4. They didn't have to produce a dubbed version

Some purists may argue that dubbed anime isn't necessary, but the sales numbers consistently show higher sales on dubbed versions. It's especially necessary if you're trying to get the show on television, since network execs aren't going to pick up a show that's only available in subbed format. Ultimately, I think it boils down to the bottom line. If you want to make a profit off of the titles, that means you're working with a limited staff and trying to make sure sales exceed your licensing and marketing costs. We've already seen a few anime licensees go under, so the market is readjusting itself currently. It's all about the economics of the situation.

Re:The companies are too slow to act

[MobyDisk]

I'm not in the industry so it could be that I'm totally on crack. But here's what I see happening:

1. One month.
2. There is no labor shortage in this area. It's the exact opposite. There are people doing this on their own time, for free. And some of those groups would love to do it professionally if they got the opportunity. But they are treated as the enemy, not potential employees.
3. This should save time, not make it take longer. The fansub groups have to work from broadcasts, capture it, and convert it -- typically using non-professional tools. There's no excuse for the professionals claiming that it takes them longer to produce. Especially since I find that much anime that comes to the U.S. is in poorer quality than what the fansub groups put out. I can't tell you the number of anime DVDs that have bad inverse telecine and are interlaced, while the fansub groups have 640x480 progressive or HD quality.
4. You are right -- they don't have to produce a dubbed version.

Let's look at that last point:

Some purists may argue that dubbed anime isn't necessary, but the sales numbers consistently show higher sales on dubbed versions. Since they take 3 years to produce an English version the people who want subtitled versions have already seen it.

But let's dig into the real heart of why it takes so long: The companies don't start the process until years after a series becomes popular. They wait so long doing nothing that by the time they put it out, the hardcore fans have already seen it. Then, they water it down for various socio-political reasons, which dilutes it even further.

Order 66

[finalnight]

...and thus, they have taken my last reason for having a fast internet connection.

Re:Order 66

[ErikZ]

You are costing them more money than they're making. They'll be delighted to see you go.

Re:Not a Common Carrier!!!

[psyburn]

As replied many times by others in similar stories:

NO US ISP WANTS TO BE OR IS A COMMON-CARRIER

They do not have that status as an ISP...

IF some one could reply with the court cases that set that precedent and how owning cable vs telephone wire is different that would seal this arugument

Re:Will it ever stop?

[darkpixel2k]

I upgraded to their business class also but they shut it down saying I needed to upgrade to their enterprise class (think that's what they called it). Oh and that's cheap for only $10,000 to install the line and about $2,000 a month.

That's insane. I think they make the number up on the spot. One of the companies I work for has several existing offices, and several offices they are opening up by the end of the year. They wanted to standardize on Comcast as an ISP. Two of the offices were on some po-dunk wireless setup and when Comcast came out they said they only had cable to the curb. If they actually wanted it run into the office complex (with 8 other commercial users--all stuck on crappy wireless) it would cost them $23,000 per office and take 3 months to setup.

There's no way in hell it could cost $23,000 to run cable underground for 30 feet.

So one of the owners asked Comcast if they paid for the connection, could they resell the access to the other tennants in the building and keep the proffits. Comcast said no.

What bullshit. They want users to pay to expand their infrastructure, and then pay again for using it. (Kinda a nice business model--Comcast doesn't have to front any money and they almost immediately start getting returns.)

So anyways, the owner says they are going to drop all their offices and switch to Qwest. Comcast immediately changed their tune, installed the cable themselves in two days, and now has other accounts in that same office building, plus we have a number for some dude at Comcast who will help us get all the new offices wired up unless they are waaay out in the brushfuck.

They are and they aren't.

[Midnight Thunder]

Make no mistake, the Japanese -are- pissed because as far as they're concerned, fansubs devalue their product.

They are and they aren't. In Japan fan-based Manga is not usually squashed, on the condition that print volumes are small and they aren't trying to make money off them. The attitude is that companies won't go after these creators, if these creators keep things small. Japanese Manga companies realise that much of the future talent is going to be found in these fan-based comics. This is the sort of thing that companies in the USA haven't understood yet, but then again when you consider the readership in Japan of Manga you will realise how important it is to modern Japanese pop culture.

The latest issue of Wired has a good article on this:

  http://www.wired.com/wired/issue/15-11

with an online version being here:

  http://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/magazine/15-11/ff_manga

Get your tentacles off me you dirty DMCA squid!

[Bushido Hacks]

Like a giant squid monster attacking a school full of miniskirt-wearing anime college girls, the DMCA violates the right of every anime otaku like some sick pervert! For this, the uber-nerdy underbelly of the Internet will not stand idle! Quickly! To the roof! We need to activate the Man-faye Signal!

Re:No, they haven't-Must Be Defended

[Nom du Keyboard]

Your overall article would make a great Wikipedia entry.

The point of my long rant is to show that while a lot of fans seem to take the view that being ignored for so long has resulted in approval that is simply not the case,

Actually when you don't defend against something, or even comment on it, you are showing either ignorance -- or tacit approval. A trademark owner, for example, cannot ignore infringements without effectively saying that they've abandoned that trademark. While some get overly zealous in this regard (Intel believes it owns anything text string that says *intel* -- %intel% for SQL Server users), ignoring something you are well aware of is approval by silence.

PP2P2P2PP2P

[tepples]

For example. Dokuro-chan, the Club to Death Angel. Holy hell, are you in for it. That storyline will drop your jaw to the floor with it's near-pedophile intent. So is there any way that people outside Japan will see it other than PP2P2P2PP2P?

Re:PP2P2P2PP2P

[Khyber]

Yea, it's all over youtube. Most anything fansubbed can be found on youtube (can't say anything about the crap quality) but then again, for others like us that live in a city with a huge anime store (Hoo-ray Animax) we can buy all kinds of stuff, even if it's Japan-only.

All the plot...

[phorm]

Plenty of plot, without the expensive actors or special effects (well, sometimes anyhow). Voice actors can still be pricey though, and bad US voice-acting is one of the reasons I generally go for subtitled shows with Japanese voice-actors rather than the horrible US ones. However, when you're not limited to live actors or scenes, then the only real limitation is time, creativity, and imagination (well, that and marketing).

Actually, my girlfriend and I have fun watching them and switching between Japanese and English. The English voices tend to sound very immature and definitely lack the depth of expression given with the Japanese ones... but it's amusing to switch between and wait until she tells me "geeze that's terrible, switch it back already" :-)

Easements

[tepples]

So apparently [...] the free-market system is bad because "they've" allowed their market to be dominated by a few ISP's? As I see it, the government regulation that controls the last mile is private real property, or the exclusive right to the use of a plot of land. Without franchises that set up the necessary easements, a service provider won't be able to pull copper or fiber under a non-subscriber's land to reach subscribers.

Quote from Comcast terms of service

[tepples]

Sounds a bit strange to me, how can they enforce a cap if it is not mentioned in a contract / user agreement? In general, ISPs tend to add language to their user agreements to the following effect: "Provider may, at its own discretion, terminate the service of any customer that consumes excessive bandwidth." But to make sure, I looked up Comcast's TOS:

You agree not to use HSI for operation as an Internet service provider, a server site for ftp, telnet, rlogin, e-mail hosting, "Web hosting" or other similar applications, for any business enterprise, or as an end-point on a non-Comcast local area network or wide area network. I can see how Comcast could spin a BitTorrent peer with share ratio > 50% as "a server site for ftp [...] other similar applications". Furthermore, from Comcast's High Speed Internet acceptable use policy incorporated into the TOS by reference:

Comcast may provide versions of the Service with different speeds and bandwidth usage limitations, among other characteristics, subject to applicable Service plans. You shall ensure that your use of the Service does not restrict, inhibit, interfere with, or degrade any other user's use of the Service, nor represent (in the sole judgment of Comcast) an overly large burden on the network. In addition, you shall ensure that your use of the Service does not restrict, inhibit, interfere with, disrupt, degrade, or impede Comcast's ability to deliver and provide the Service and monitor the Service, backbone, network nodes, and/or other network services.

You further agree to comply with all Comcast network, bandwidth, and data storage and usage limitations. You shall ensure that your bandwidth consumption using the Service does not exceed the limitations that are now in effect or may be established in the future. If your use of the Service results in the consumption of bandwidth in excess of the applicable limitations, that is a violation of this Policy. In such cases, Comcast may, in its sole discretion, terminate or suspend your Service account or request that you subscribe to a version of the Service with higher bandwidth usage limitations if you wish to continue to use the Service at higher bandwidth consumption levels.

Yes, indeed.

[Valdrax]

That used to be the case. More and more I've seen digisubbers whose attitude is "Yes, it's been licensed, but we don't want to wait until they put it out, so we're going to keep subbing/releasing/distributing." I wish I could say these were a tiny minority of subbers, but I don't think so anymore.

There used to be an ethic to fansubbers back in the day when the common belief as that the role of the fansubber was to increase exposure to great and unknown material in the American market, and people who watched fansubs respected this philosophy back when distribution costs of fansubs were relatively high.

Now, it's just a bunch of people who want their free anime without ever intending to pay for it legitimately that drive most downloading. I remember when digital fansubbing first started to gain traction and the outrage a few groups faced when deciding to continue doing series after they'd been licensed. Now, it's not even really blinked at.

Anyone who pretends that the old days of those ethics are still here is either:
1) Lying.
2) Deluded.
3) Uninformed.

Any series that is popular enough will get picked up by a less reputable fansubber after a more ethical one drops the series.

(Disclaimer: I can't say that I've bought every series I've ever downloaded and watched, but I can say that I've never downloaded a series after it got licensed that I'm aware of. That's just a line I won't cross.)

Re:Yes, indeed.

[TriezGamer]

(Disclaimer: I can't say that I've bought every series I've ever downloaded and watched, but I can say that I've never downloaded a series after it got licensed that I'm aware of. That's just a line I won't cross.)

I'm in the same boat, but more and more the sheer arrogance (percieved or legitimate) of many fansubbers has driven me to stick with just DVDs. Fansubs are few and far between for me these days.

Of interest to me is the ANN article, where it mentions quite specifically Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Kai. I'm inclined to think it's just Comcast Bullshit, but the shows specifically mentioned don't appear to have a common Japanese producer. If Comcast actually has a US company backing this notice, that means some company may have plans to 'license rescue' Higurashi no Naku Koro ni, as a release of the second season would be effectively useless with Geneon leaving the first season incomplete.

Whooosh!

[Valdrax]

I love how you quote the sentence that clarifies that he doesn't mean that all anime is porn, and then go on to "counter" him by plugging a series that isn't porn. He's just saying that anime takes up as much bandwidth as porn.

In summary: WHOOOOOSH!!!

Re:No, they haven't-Must Be Defended

[Anonymous Coward]

They think they own intelligence?

Why not distribute only the subtitle tracks?

[Bones3D_mac]

Honestly, I don't see why the fansubbing community doesn't just distribute the subtitle track data they create, and pair the data to legitimate japan region dvds. These people could then import these dvds, rip them on a dedicated machine regioned to japanese discs, then add the new subtitle tracks and re-burn out to a region free disc.

The legal aspects for the fansub tracks could prove interesting, however. For example, how far does written word need to be changed from the original source before it gets treated as an original work by itself? Also, does a fan-created subtitle track even qualify as "infringement", without the necessary audio/video tracks that put it into context?

If translation is copyright infringement, where does the law stand on tools like "babelfish" or even language-to-language dictionaries? The words are already there and ready, they just lack a logical order.

Re:Why not distribute only the subtitle tracks?

[Anonymous Coward]

1. We don't want the Hong Kong pirates or random assholes on eBay turning a buck off our work that we do for free, since the pirated material by itself has little value outside of Japan. Also, DVD subtitle tracks are extremely primitive compared to the features in the SSA/ASS subtitle format that is the de-facto standard. Any halfway-decent fansub will have more than just the bare dialogue translation.
2. According to the Berne Convention, yes preparing derivative works (such as a translation) is infringement.
3. That is an excellent question.
Posting AC for obvious reasons.

Re:No, they haven't-Must Be Defended

[Sancho]

ignoring something you are well aware of is approval by silence. I hate sentences like this. You're implying that it's all black-and-white, and that there's no gray. What if the company disapproves, but doesn't think that it's worth the time/energy/money/whatever to deal with it?

Try not to think of things only in black-and-white. The "you're either for us or against us" mentality demonstrates that you have a very simple mind.

Incidentally:

A trademark owner, for example, cannot ignore infringements without effectively saying that they've abandoned that trademark. Yes, this is codified into law. Legally, it's not the same for copyrights/patents, which can be used without permission, but WITH knowledge by the copyright/patent holder without the copyright or patent becoming invalid.

Re:Will it ever stop?

[ceeam]

kthx

MOD PARENT UP

[LrdDimwit]

Fansubs are essentially buzz. For another great example of how buzz doesn't always translate to sales, see Snakes On A Plane.

Lost Was Good

[Anonymous Coward]

For the first two seasons. How lost can they really be when there seems to be thousands of people there?

Sandswine Equipment?

[Anonymous Coward]

just another perfect use for "deep packet inspection" :) Thanks DouchDave!

Yabbut

[Anonymous Coward]

Your logic is flawed.

What you're saying is akin to, "murder must be legal, since being murdered is legal, and for somebody to be murdered, somebody must be doing the murdering". Yabbut, Demonoid wasn't doing any of the murdering. They simply provided a mass venue for external individuals to kill or be killed as they saw fit for themselves.

Re:No, they haven't-Must Be Defended

[Anonymous Coward]

>I hate sentences like this. You're implying that it's all black-and-white, and that there's no gray. What if the company disapproves, but doesn't think that it's worth the time/energy/money/whatever to deal with it?

Uh oh, it's ego time.

It's not quite that simplistic, and it's also not quite that complex.

By US law, if you don't defend your copyright when you see it's been infringed, then you're basically neglecting that copyright. That neglect sets precedence (or lack thereof?) which shows you are not interested indefending your copyright. Actions speak louder than words. Inaction speaks louder than words, too.

This is the reason why the words 'Kleenex' and 'Roller Blades' are common language now, instead of facial tissues and in-line skates.

This is not news.

[Anonymous Coward]

Nothing will come of this. Who cares?

Re:No, they haven't-Must Be Defended

[Sancho]

Kleenex is not a copyright. It's a trademark. They are different beasts with different rules. I mentioned that the rules about "neglect" apply to trademarks. They don't apply to copyrights, though a judge might choose to reduce damages awarded if copyright is selectively enforced (note that I don't know of any instance of this occurring, however the nature and wide range for the award would allow this to happen.) That said, to the best of my knowledge, there's no law stating that it's legal for a judge to use this in determining award--though if you know of a law which states it, I'd be very interested to hear it.

The rules regarding copyright and trademark are very complex and very commonly misunderstood, but a long history of Slashdot-lawyering has taught me this much. :)

ISPs *are* considered Common Carriers.

[Viewsonic]

They have been considered such since the beginning of time. Simple google searches will provide plenty of information on this. This is why the RIAA simply hasn't started suing Comcast, Charter, etc to stop the torrents, and file exchanges. (Note they still ask them to provide information so that they can sue the users directly, however).

As to the OPs question, I would think this does invalidate their common carrier clause. I would think they would be liable for anything on their Usenet servers, anything floating on their mail servers, anything ending up on their users web accounts.

Re:Will it ever stop?

[ScrewMaster]

It works both ways. Now, I'm fortunate to live in a fairly broadband-competitive area. A friend of mine had DSL installed a while ago, but couldn't get it to work. The modem would light up, everything looked good, DHCP was up ... but no connection. So stopped by to take a look. The netmask was 255.255.254.0. Most of the DSL setups I've seen around here use 255.255.255.0. So I call up SBC to talk to tech support: no help there. Nobody seemed interested in helping until I mentioned the "C" word, Comcast. "Tell you what," I finally told the tech they "escalated" me to, "Cancel the account, we'll switch over to Comcast tomorrow. Thank you for playing." and hung up. A little while later I get a call back from a guy in provisioning (pretty sharp character as it happened) who said, "You're right, your net mask is wrong. Hang on a sec. Okay, try it now." Great, fixed. But had I been in a one-ISP town somewhere, I bet it would have been much more of an uphill battle.

Re:Will it ever stop?

[toddestan]

I think part of the reason is that if they said the limit was, say, 100GB a month, a bunch of people would install some kind of usage meter and download 99.9GB every month. By being a but vague about the limit, people are more likely to download less as they don't know what it is and how close they are to hitting it.