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Air Force Seeking Geeks For 'Cyber Command'
An anonymous reader writes "Wired reports that the two-star general in charge of the US Air Force's new Cyber Command is looking for hacker-types to beef up its cadre of cyber warriors — no heavy lifting required. 'We have to change the way we think about warriors of the future,' General William Lord says. 'So if they can't run three miles with a pack on their backs but they can shut down SCADA system, we need to have a culture where they fit in.' The Cyber Command is the Air Force's first new Major Command since the early 1990s. Its purpose is to be able to win an electronic war with China and other potential adversaries."
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
they could be called GeekSquad
?giS
But don't they realize that people smart enough to do their hacking are also smart enough to see through their sorry attempts to recruit them?
Careful What You Wish For....
Just seeing that the name of this new command is the "cyber command" makes me want to run right out and hack a Gibson.
Man, the surf is ripped out on that information wave today. I mean gridlocked, on that information superhighway...?
HACK THE PLANET!
I question their ability to attract the best hackers. Military culture is kinda sorta the complete and total opposite of geekdom. It is encouraging that they realize that some culture change on their part is necessary, but change comes very slowly to the military (with good reason! who wants a flaky military?)
expandfairuse.org
Admiral Ackbar: It's a TRAP!
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
People will go for this. Cracking some of the worlds most secure systems from behind the protection of the US goverment? sounds like a pretty cool deal to me.
I would be interested to know what the new "physical requirements" are going to be for this type of command?
What will the recruiters say? "And guess what?, You will get a free 6-pack of Jolt *or* Red Bull *or* even Bawlz with every root account compromised?
What are the new parameters are going to be for the "boot camp"? Here are the current ones: http://www.baseops.net/basictraining/airforce.html
I'd be pressed (these days) to meet the BMT physical requirements: http://www.baseops.net/basictraining/airforce_fitness.html
If they want us, they can bring us in as civilian contractors. Why would anyone want to take a low paying job they can't quit?
Commander: They did what?
Lieutenant: They fell down and started rolling around, keyboards in hand.
Commander: And this was suppose to say what exactly?
Lieutenant: They were gibbering something about he who lives by the keyboard dies by the keyboard. I think they thought it was funny or clever. You have no idea what the men have been dealing with. These geeks have no social skills whatsoever.
Commander: So I've heard....and they absolutely refused to perform that first strike.
Lieutenant: Yes, sir. But it gets worse. They started muttering some inane dialog and sniggering at each other. "Burn the building" and such. We thought they were making threats at first, but then one of them laughed at me for not watching some cult film they all worship. Office Farce or Office Day or something.
Commander: I told them this would never work. Damn geeks.
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
...to win an electronic war with China... To win an electronic, heck any kind of war, all China has to do is to stop shipping electronic and any other goods to the US. After all, that is were all of the stuff comes from these days. Not to mention that most of the corporates have either sold or licensed almost all intellectual property to China in one form or another. Talk about giving a potential enemy all of the sticks they need to beat you over the head with.how would they control the inner geek urge to hack EVERYTHING?
commanding officer: "Dammit, someone emptied my bank account - AGAIN!"
second in command: "It's those cyber warfare officers, sir, they keep hacking anything connected to the network"
CO: "WELL COMMAND THEM TO STOP DOING IT!"
SCO: "I can't sir, the rerouted all communications through a local brothel..."
Seven Days with Ubuntu Unity
Article has recruiter contact information for wannabe cyber warriors. http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2008/02/20080209-12.html
Commander: "We're at war" Geek: "Huh? I was on my break, just playing counterstrike on my station."
Your pointy-haired boss has a gun.
Great Intellect...
because the real hackers and crackers - not the shitty scene ones, but the ones that are genuinely good. Are going to go join a government joint right?
Right.
If you want to kill and murder people - men, women, children, and babies - then joining will provide you that opportunity.
Those that provide technical support to those that kill are also responsible for the deaths that they cause.
By killing others for your cause you become the terrorists for your enemy. They of course are your terrorists. You each reinforce each others goals of killing terrorists yet do nothing to really solve anything. You just punt the problem elsewhere and magnify it.
Only those wanting to be guilty of murder and death will join.
We've gone from "don't ask don't tell" to the military hiring geeks to cyber.
What is the Air Force doing in charge of America's cyber warfare abilities?
It seems to me that we should have a specialized agency, or perhaps even a military branch, for cyber warfare.
http://www.aaplblog.com/ - News about Apple Inc.
Detonate an EMP bomb. Welcome to the stone age, troops, you just lost all of your nav/GPS/FoF systems, and if your vehicles are not hard-shielded, you're screwed.
If an EMP bomb tested out in the Pacific could affect both Hawaii and Japan coasts, one EMP could effectively cover China. We already have the weaponry to win an electronic war.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
BARKSDALE AFB, La. -- The perception that "legal" restrictions hinder the freedom of the Department of Defense to maneuver in cyberspace
They might as well just put sarcasm tags around it
China and other potential adversaries.
I can't be the only dude from the EU who has noticed a slow rise in anti-China stuff on slashdot?
Do other news sources in the US have this slant? Because looking at it from the outside, it's like the US^H^H^H^H Fox News is seeking a new bogeyman now the cold war is over. Unfortunately some of this is rubbing off on a more intellegent news source like
Anyone quoted by a reporter knows how little they understand
Don't believe what you read is the truth.
"Woohoo! Where do I sign?"
"Great! Now pack your bags, you're going to Iraq"
"Butbutbut, that's not what I signed up for!"
"Too bad, we need people on the ground in Iraq NOW. That's where you're going."
Turning raw meat into the cyberwarriors of tomorrow -- the drill sergeant at Fort Ran:
ALL RIGHT YOU MAGGOTS LISTEN UP! EVERY LAST ONE OF YOU IS A PERFECT SPECIMEN OF WELL-MUSCLED MANHOOD, BRIGHT-EYED,
NEATLY DRESSED, AND HIGHLY DISCIPLINED. WELL STARTING TODAY I AM GOING TO TURN YOU ALL INTO SLOVENLY, SARCASTIC,
ANTI-SOCIAL LOSERS! DO YOU HEAR ME SOLDIER??
Sir, Yes sir!
NEVER CALL ME SIR! YOU ARE TO SHOW NO RESPECT FOR AUTHORITY! DO YOU UNDERSTAND ME MAGGOT?!
Sure, whatever dude.
WHAT'S THAT AROUND YOUR NECK SOLDIER??
It's a tie s..., er dude
WELL TAKE IT OFF! YOU WILL WEAR T-SHIRTS AND LOOSE SHORTS AT ALL TIMES! IS THAT CLEAR?
I really don't like people shouting at me.
DAMN RIGHT YOU DON'T. AND WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN SOMEONE LIKE ME PISSES YOU OFF?
Uh, replace your desktop with a screenshot and then watch you trying to click on it while I snicker from my cubicle?
I THINK WE GOT A REAL GEEK HERE! IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE MAGGOT? A REAL GEEK???
I guess so.
OH YOU GUESS SO? WELL WHEN I'M DONE WITH YOU THERE WON'T BE ANY DOUBT! EVERY LAST ONE OF YOU WILL BE ABLE
TO LIVE FOR DAYS ON NOTHING BUT JOLT COLA AND DORITOS! YOU WILL LEARN TO LOVE THE WARM GLOW OF YOUR MONITOR
MORE THAN THE LIGHT OF THE SUN! YOU WILL BE ABLE TO WRITE NETWORK PENETRATION CODE IN THE DARK, IN MACHINE CODE,
USING A MAGNETIZED NEEDLE AND A STEADY HAND! YOU...WILL..BE...WARRIORS!! HOO! HOO! HOOOO!
Soylent Green is peoplicious!
Actually, they do. The military has no problem hiring the very best if they want to. Half the best physicists and electrical engineers I knew at MIT -- and the better half, typically -- went either directly into the military (via ROTC) or worked for defense contractors. Why not? It's where the really interesting physics and engineering was being done, the pay and benefits were great, and you weren't hassled by dumbass marketing suits wanting you to make your product cute or cheap.
The military wants their tech to work and be way cooler and better than anyone else's stuff, cost to them is no object, and they don't give a fuck what it looks like or whether it "appeals" to the critical 18-25 Facebook demographic. It's going to be painted olive drab anyway, and soldiers will be told to use it, not begged. Fairly ideal working conditions for a really smart technical person, I'd say. The only drawback is the various amounts of bureaucratic bullshit you have to cope with, which tops the level in a good private firm.
Anyway, I've never heard of a good technical job in the military or one of its prime contractors, or one of the defense-associated national labs, not drawing a huge raft of top-notch applicants. It's agencies like the EPA which pay terribly, have hideous civil-service and union rules weighing them down, and which, frankly, involve boring and outdated technology, which end up desperate to hire even third-rate people.
For people interested the real draw back is that the HQ is in Sheveport, Louisiana.
Yea you have gambling, a cheap cost of livings, and a Bass Pro Shop.
The downside is you have Louisiana, lots of rain and hot temperatures and the people who shop in a Bass Pro Shop.
...the current electronic stuff coming from China is already equipped with self destructing parts that just wait for the signal.
Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
... with my karma anything a modern military (let alone the one claiming Overlord status on the planet) does, sign me in... I've got karma to burn... good times ahead...
These "cyber warriors" will spend the vast majority of their time hacking into the computers and tapping the phones of what is now 700,000 US citizens on the FBI watch list mostly because they are active in Democratic Party or Green Party politics.
Must defend America from the threat posed by senior citizen Quaker non-violence activists, right?
Equally, the US, having been useful in providing markets during Chinese industrialisation, is now a threat to the Chinese government because of its preoccupation with democracy and its desire to control access to commodities through military means. My guess is that war between the US and China is inevitable, and that initially this war will be entirely electronic and barely visible. It will be a war of destabilisation, possibly using control of Scada systems to shut down power stations and create hydrological crises. How those systems ever got connected to the Internet is a failure of basic strategic thinking.
Anyone familiar with the history of WW2 will know that, when necessary, the military can very rapidly absorb geeks into its culture. Think Alan M Turing and Richard Feynmann, surely both geek's geeks. And when it turns out they have a prospect of creating conditions for military success, you get things like Churchill's memorandum: "See they have everything they want and report to me that it has been done."
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
I can see the Air Force running 3 miles to GET a SIX pack, but that's about all I could see the AF running for. To be sure, once the AF GETS the SIX pack, the running is done and over with. There is no more of a pussy branch than the AF.
Good luck getting geeks to move to Barksdale Louisiana - nearest major town is Shreveport, and it's about 3 hours from Dallas, 5-6 from New Orleans. They may be building a big shiny building, but if they want to hire geeks, they'd have a lot better luck locating this at Livermore Labs or Moffett Field or somewhere around Boston or NYC.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
- The Army sends a bunch of guards armed with automatic weapons to make sure nobody steals the computer.
- The Navy ties the machine down with netting so it won't bounce around during shipping, tightens the screws in the rack, coils the cables neatly and attaches them with cable ties.
- The Air Force cuts a purchase order to buy another one.
Our lab was _much_ neater once Dave got there - plus he did a good job on router ACLs, installing OS patches, etc.You'd think the NSA would be more involved in this kind of thing, but usually when I hear about people getting funding for cyber warfare boondoggles as opposed to computer security, it's the Air Force.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
I want to join the air force and make botnets! :D
"I guess I'm gonna fade into Bolivian."
Step 1: Write everything in Chinese
Step 2: ????
Step 3: Win!
Ask this at the recruitment fair:
"So, how many people will die if I take a job with you?"
A friend tried this with the organisation that makes atomic weapons for the UK and also the Royal Air Force -- both just ignored him, then gave some we-don't-kill-real-people crap.
But no sense of morals required too. Those geeks won't have to do what they think is right or what the common sense says it's right, but what their government orders them to do, or face martial court.
If I was an US citizen my answer would be "thanks, but no thanks. I'm too intelligent and too respectful for the world I'm connected to, that gave me so much information and knowledge, to thump my chest like a monkey while I send malicious packets through it at the sound of a trumpet".
Only the old-timers will remember the days when we used spooky coloured one-character-at-a-time terminals,
No, old timers remember ECL logic card computers driving a Mod 28.
http://railroad-signaling.com/tty/tty.html
Were were really impressed when our first dot matrix KSR showed up, the DEC KSR Keyboard Send Recieve unit arrived.
http://www.recycledgoods.com/item/15910.aspx
A few years later, we got our first screen display.
The truth shall set you free!
He said "old-timers", not "petrified fossils".
He said "old-timers", not "petrified fossils".
Leave my dad out of it. He's the one with the "Older than dirt" ballcap. He's far from petrified. He does video editing. He has an Ubuntu machine, an Apple laptop, and a Windows box. I try to keep up with him, but I haven't picked up the Apple laptop yet. Maybe it'll be my next laptop if I get tired of Ubuntu.
The truth shall set you free!
That is NOT bittorrent running in the background.....
Sorta cuts out a lot of folks. I'd consider it myself, if the whole military-age thing wasn't working against me. I'm 45.
Guess I'll have to find another way to be American with my resume, just like a lot of other folks. Slashdotters even!
You can't be ahead of the curve, if you're stuck in a loop.
sorry Airforce but I'm gay and not willing to hide it
While this sounds like a good thing for attracting gamers to the U.S. military while staving off the fears of entering into boot-camp hell or getting shipped off to Iraq, there is certainly much to be disturbed by with such a program. Think of it more as a military version of "no child left behind" approach to recruitment rather than a job opening within some air-conditioned day camp.
Eventually, this excuse to "lower the bar" on the recruitment standards could become a way to justify drafting *anyone* for combat, not just those with optimal health conditions. What better way to conserve your best troops for a major crisis than by simply replacing them all with four or five times as many people with substandard health and arm them all with guns. Anyone whose ever toyed with swarm theory can see the incentive of such an approach. In some sense this could even be considered a form of genocide as those in power send the less desireable of us to fight on their behalf, knowing that our lack of training and good health will probably result massive death counts, while at the same time freeing up resources previously used for these people to be consumed by the higher quality troops and desireables within our population.
8==8 Bones 8==8
My hope is that they might find a few girls involved. Vive la Nooky, I say, - it helps to keep your mind on your work -- or at least on something
How many beans make five, anyhow ?
My Keyboard (The Creed of a United States Cyber Command)
This is my keyboard.
There are many like it, but this one is MINE.
My keyboard is my best friend. It is my life.
I must master it as I must master my life.
My keyboard without me is useless. Without my keyboard, I am useless.
I must type my keyboard true.
I must type faster than my enemy who is trying to hack me.
I must hack him before he hacks me. I will...
My keyboard and myself know that what counts in war is not the keys we type,
the noise of our modems, nor the trojans we make.
We know it is the hacks that count. We will hack...
My keyboard is human, even as I, because it is my life.
Thus, I will learn it as a brother.
I will learn its weaknesses, its strengths, its parts, its accessories,
its sights, and its barrel.
I will ever guard it against the ravages of weather and damage.
I will keep my keyboard clean and ready, even as I am clean and ready.
We will become part of each other. We will...
Before God I swear this creed.
My keyboard and myself are the defenders of my country.
We are the masters of our enemy.
We are the saviors of my life.
So be it, until there is no enemy, but PEACE.
"no heavy lifting required" Enough with that stereotype? All the developers who worked at some time for military as developers I know were quite physical types.
Actually, like 30% of developers I know are quite physical.
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
mens sana in corpore sano (ablative)
Deadbeats are people that smoke pot? Well, I have seen FAR WORSE 'deadbeats' out of the b.s. "clean & shiny people" out there!
Scumbags, who have had everything in their fake lives "paid off" by their rich daddies &/or mommies when they screwup. Examples might be people like the "fine mgt." @ ENRON & their ilk.
The kind that are "managers because they are 'best pals' with the owner, or a relative of they or major stockholders".
Fake scum like that, and you, make me ill. The rest of the planet's sick of dishonest trash like that, and yourself, so wake up asshole.
The ONLY THING people like you have going, is that you live your "fake lives", & 'manage people' (big deal, a dolt can do that, and so can any babysitter) and sacrifice enjoying yourselves because YOU HAVE TO!
(Fact is, people like you truly don't know anything critical or real that actually gets work done is why, so you setup people with discriminatory practices like drug testing for weed - cutting out people far more intelligent & skilled than the REAL DEADBEATS OUT THERE, like "managers" out there (most of them that is, especially above middle mgt.)).
Weed is FAR LESS DANGEROUS than alcohol is, but, that would affect your b.s. business trips and meetings now, wouldn't it, if alcohol was made illegal now, wouldn't it?
What good is a keyboard if it doesn't have a CPU?
A BOFH with access to the red button.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
The Air Force had Geeks... and to some extent retains a few of them. They just cut around 8,000 of their 3C0X1's (which fill anything from Help Desk to Systems Administration)so instead of giving them the boot, why not send them to "Cyber Command".
-This thought was brought to you by a former 3C0X1
Their guy with a scuba kit & a sharpened boat anchor didn't do the trick for them?
Care about electronic freedom? Consider donating to the EFF!
'So if they can't run three miles with a pack on their backs but they can shut down SCADA system, we need to have a culture where they fit in.'
Sounds like a contractor to me.
I've been noticing an increasing trend with the government advertising for the Army and armed services: recruit geeks.
From ads on websites geeks would browse to TV ads specifically targeted on shows and channels geeks would watch, they're trying to lure computer geeks into the armed services.
Why is the government now labeling us as geeks and targeting us for advertising? And I bet, if you are lured into the armed services as a geek, you could still be put in the front lines...
I worked for a gentleman that was a Captain in the Navy. This guy was older than dirt, but surprised the hell out of me with how computer literate he was. He was fit, active, intelligent and an adept computer user. You might say so what, there are lots of older people who are in shape, intelligent and know their way around the keyboard.
He was 94 years old when he passed on and taught me plenty about computers. He was already 33 years old when ENIAC was unveiled. He was working until his last days because he enjoyed it so much. Perhaps the amusing part was at the funeral we had remind ourselves that we were shocked at his death at 94 due to his clear mind, and active lifestyle. If you met him, you wouldn't have thought he was a day older than 70. I'd say if someone is shocked at your passing at age 94, then you probably were doing it right.
Certainly a fossil, but far from petrified.
Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
It's a good idea to understand the ramifications before being "lured" into the armed services (that can, after all, stick you in the front lines). Joining up without understanding full well the probability of that occurring would be foolhardy.
Why do we have to settle for one or the other, why nopt both, I know many geeks that are also into hardcore training, they do exist, you would just have to try and sell them on working for peanuts.
If the army (navy, AF) were to pay better wages for the crap you go through, then it would not be a problem, they would have all the saps come out of the wood work, it's the ridiculous salaries people are avoiding all together, when they can get 6 figures consulting in IT!
They'll just go back to selling rice, and their economy will be hunky-dory.
Do you want to play a game?
It's You and I against the World... When do we attack?
I want to get on the Stargate project will they take any people form this project and put them there?
If the Air Force (or DoD or whomever) is looking for contractors or civilian workers, great. There some nice benefits for working for the man, sorta like being a tenured professor at a not-bad/not-good school. Some of the neat stuff requires clearances, which can be a bother since the laws involving such things, I think, are at the felony level.
However, if you're thinking of the military itself, think long and hard about this. Talk about neat stuff and benefits sounds great, but the military's purpose is power projection. If you're not comfortable with that, just don't go there. Their's is also a culture when things like "no", sometimes, just is NOT a possibility - things have to be done.
Note, too, that history shows that the young die for the mistakes of the old. It's an honest, valuable career, but the good's and bad's are a bit more extreme than most.
We have always been at war with EastAsia.
-
1. It'll be a contractor job, probably for one of the big names like BAE, Northrup Grumman, L3, Haliburton subsidiaries, etc. 2. All those companies are knee-deep in corruption and war profiteering, and the blame always flows downhill. 3. The Pentagon has this nifty idea called total information warfare. They regard free speech online as some kind of war front, and you'll be helping them find ways to crush it. In general, mMilitary contracting is a bad deal, and I highly recommend avoiding it. The pay may look nice until they have you by the balls and then you'll wish you'd kept your civilian career.
If you met him, you wouldn't have thought he was a day older than 70. I'd say if someone is shocked at your passing at age 94, then you probably were doing it right.
I can relate to that. My dad is in the mid 70's and longevity runs in the family.
He was already 33 years old when ENIAC was unveiled.
I was 26 when the IBM PC was unveiled.
The truth shall set you free!
That's also forgetting to mention that we could do more damage by writing off any debt sold off to that country. Talk about giving a potential enemy all of the sticks they need to beat you over the head with. Well, does it matter that we have a far wider array of sticks capable of anything from headbashing to complete obliteration?
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Damn it, they're using the old SAC symbol: gauntleted fist holding lightning and olive branch. The official slogan was Peace is our profession but within SAC it was subtexted with War is our Trade. /Tanker, Buff crew chief
I drank what? -- Socrates
Interesting OPENDNS is at 208.67.222.222 and 208.67.220.220 and the IP of the cyber AF is at 208.67.217.130 within 64K
Looks like our fellow "hackers on steroids" will finally be able to find themselves a job.
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
Try getting a clue about the subject before "informing" anyone. Canadian civilian gives advice on how slow advancement is in the US Air Force - ha.
If we're worried that designing missile control software makes us responsible for the deaths that occur when the missile goes off...what are the ethical ramifications of paying the taxes that pay the salary of the missile control software designer?
When a nation goes to war, it seems to me that there's no such thing as an innocent civilian over the age of 18 (except, perhaps if someone's on the dole and not contributing even indirectly to the war effort).
The failure modes are too obvious. Here are the reasons for despair:
1. Political control
2. Incompetence at the top (rejection of Rand report on mistakes in Iraq)
3. Preference for sycophants
4. Authoritian society more interested in suppression than learning from mistakes (see 2)
5. Movers more interested in personal gain over protecting society
6. Rewarding failure, punishment of the successful (or merely critical observers)
Reasons for hope:
Our most potent enemies operate under the same bleak conditions.
a. Authoritarian regimes
b. Blinded by lack of openness, which give rise to similar set of problems.
I've found that going out into the woods with a pack on my back and wandering has helped me solve more coding problems then I can admit...
Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
needs their cat scanned.
However, I have already accepted a position in Russia.
Fuck Bush.
Yours Sincerely,
Kilgore Trout.
You mean he wears flared trousers and likes early disco music?
No, he was too old to get into the disco scene of the 70's. If I dig deep enough, I may find my polyester suit!
The truth shall set you free!
It seems most likely that this is just a ploy to get more people to sign up for the USAF.
In the UK, the television advertisements for the Army and the Royal Navy both feature people doing stuff with computers - in the case of the Royal Navy there's a guy who encounters a computer fault, and so he turns it off and back on again. A sign for anyone with a bit of intelligence that what they're really after are wannabes. It's much more fashionable and seems more empowering to be a 'geek' than it does to be a slightly anxious youth with minimal education who's about to be shipped off to Iraq or Afghanistan (hats off to them all though).
I might have to apply if they make Cheyenne Mountain their base. "I work with the Air Force ... in Cheyenne Mountain ... doing computer stuff. Stargate? What are you talking about?"
Don't blame me -- I voted for Roslin.
"The Cyber Command is the Air Force's first new Major Command since the early 1990s."
So when did they create Stargate Command?
They don't tell you what they stick you with. Your body is theirs, completely. They could give you mad cow and you could never sue. You don't own what you sell to them.
I noticed some mentioned the low salary, which is absurd. here you can see the base pay, there are many allowances (such as food, housing, having a family, being stationed in a "war zone") which add up, not to mention the amazing pension from retiring after 20 years (after 20 years of service, you'd be about 40, allowing for the possibility of another job). Another benefit is respect. Yesterday, I was in line at a restaurant, and someone thanked me for my service, and paid for my lunch.
Also, AFROTC has great scholarships. They pay for tuition, give a $300 semesterly book allowance, and a monthly stipend (>$300). And recently, they started offering scholarships for electrical engineering students without competition. Also, there are great opportunities such as the ACE Program. Overview here (Warning PDF).
And as for the physical requirements, they aren't extreme. ~40 pushups in 1 minute ~40 situps in one minute, and 1.5 miles in ~12 minutes.
If you haven't realized, I am in ROTC, and this is my desired career field.
There's precedent.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
War is never necessary except for those who's purpose it serves. For the rest of us - the other %99.9999... war is not necessary. To keep people such as Bush, Saddam, Hitler, Stalin, etc... in power they need wars. War is the best thing that drives their mission. It defines them. It drives them forward. It gives them power. It sucks the life out of everyone though. It is futile.
You remember Hitler. Do you also remember what stopped Hitler? Do you really think than life in France in 1950 was in no way better than life in France in 1940?
-- Support a free market in the field of government
Actually, if they really want you, your contract (yes, you *do* sign a contract to join the military) can stipulate the job you are signing up for. It can also stipulate that the contract is null and void if they are unable (for whatever reason) to give you that job.
I expect that this would be a pretty rare event and only involve occupational specialties where they routinely train and place many individuals. Perhaps getting a guarantee of being sent to military police school after basic.
I happen to know, because that was the only way I joined. Of course, you have to have the balls to say - "Fine, I quit!" if they don't keep their end of the bargain. But, they don't have a legal leg to stand on if it's in your contract.
I'm sure that is your understanding of the situation, but unless you or someone you know actually exercised that option I am not entirely convinced that it is really so cut and dry. In other words is there something in the small print that gives the military a little "flexibility" should "national security" demand it.
Is retraining/re-designation prohibited, for example they train and give you the electronics job but later decide the retrain you for avionics?
How are conflicts between your contract and your oath to obey all lawful orders resolved? Your an electronics tech and all of a sudden your are told to grab a rifle, get in a foxhole, and defend this line. Things like this happened on numerous occasions during world war 2 and korea. Do you think the officer or NCO in the field is going to give a sh*t about your contract should similar needs and circumstances arise?
Finally, having a specialty such as electronics tech does not prohibit them from sending you into harms way. I once knew someone who was an electronics tech in the Marine Corp. He was stationed in Vietnam and was quietly and safely working on base. Once day he is given an *interesting* assignment. He is to accompany a Marine Force Recon team, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Force_Recon, to the Ho Chi Minh trail, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho_Chi_Minh_trail, and deploy electronic sensor to monitory enemy movements.
Maybe they should be looking for designers first - that site is a mess.
Killing begets more killing.
Pacifism begets killing too, the killing of the pacifists. Pacifism leads to death unless you have non-pacifists around to protect you. Being reasonable and fair is fine and good, and we should strive for that path, but one must also be willing and able to use deadly force in defense. Even in modern times, over a small number of generations, we have seen a population split, the two halves become isolated, one become pacifist, and when the two halves reestablish contact the pacifists are murdered and/or enlsaved by their blood relatives. Sorry, read about this in a book so I don't have a link handy, the people were Pacific islanders, timeframe 19th century IIRC.
...need to lose that attitude that just because you learned windows programming in college that somehow you're entitled to executive-level salaries at the highest tech companies for entry-level jobs. You're not that good. And you're not experienced at all, either. All you've got is the 'tude and a very narrowly focused skillset that is aimed at a computing platform that's stagnated.
Corporate management is sick of paying for the upgrade gravy train to vendors, and software apps that only have useful service lives as long as the attention span of a 20-something. The enterprise applications of tomorrow will be expected to have life cycles of 7-9 years, just like they did before 1995. The IT world is coming back around again full circle, and you kids are in for a rude awakening, because now guys like me (last of the Boomers, first of the GenX'ers) are in charge, you're not, and it's our prime directive to reign in control of the spending and enforce stability and long-term usefulness of the systems we manage.
They claim to have an urgent need for talent but they're crippled by their own entrenched practices. I just spent two years working as a "cyber security" contractor for USAF. Our family went heavily in debt to relocate to where the job was (in the current recession, we couldn't sell our house). This same debt was held against me as the reason I flunked my security clearance. Now I'm out of work and deeper in debt than ever. If I were you, and I were considering working there, I would run like hell.
And the enemy is laughing. They're not getting classified info by bribing people who have overdue Capital One accounts. They're downloading it from SIPRNET.
These men will be sent later in Iraq, I guess. Say, to protect the digital infrastructure of the Empire (guard a shack with a PC, in a desert, from which fellow-soldiers talk via Skype).
Laugh all you want at Teletypes, but after an EMP nuclear strike, they'll still be working, and your fancy-schmancy microchips will be little puddles of dirty silicon.
Chip H.
no reason at all they cant throw money at computer geeks, mercenaries with no ideological or national allegiance, no sense of esprit de corps or camaradery that is built in normal basic training or military service.
I, for one, welcome our new pot-smoking overlords! Uh... what was I saying again? Pass that shit!
On another note, you know how Iran is always stoning people to death? The Air Force is curious, but unfortunately the term "stoned" got mistranslated...
Legalize it.
Never mind that there already IS a joint command for all IO/IA. They gotta grab more taxpayer $$ to do it their way.
Join us.
Travel the virtual world
Meet Exciting avatars
And hack their boxen!
Gives a whole new meaning to "Dude! I totally pwned you!"
Carpe Scrotum - The only way to deal with your competition.
I see lots of jokes. Some of them are awesome. However, what would it take to make a real 'serious' attempt at this? My thoughts:
:)
First off, you need total cooperation with the CIA or other covert espionage capabilities. You aren't going to be able to do much damage to 's critical infrastructure from thousands of miles away. Sure, a few systems will have access via public channels, but it would be a lot more effective if you have a resource on the ground. Such assets would physically locate assets you have identified virtually, and provide other support mechanisms.
Second, you need access to the systems you are going to attack well before you launch an attack. This could be done carefully from a remote location. What would be better is to have the above covert operations guys steal the actual gear you are going to be attacking, or otherwise duplicate it (plans, technical documentation, etc).
Third, you need devices and techniques that can give you access to closed networks from thousands of miles away. That means you need to have covert ops people with extensive technical training who are going to gain access to restricted areas on networks that are very closed, and install covert devices on those networks that give you remote access. In particular, you need your own local network that is very secure and has as low latency as you can get. That network would live inside that country and needs to remain undetected, with stop gaps to protect itself if part of it is discovered.
Fourth, you need to develop the right tactics. You have to attack inside out if taking out an entire nations infrastructure quickly. What you do NOT want to do is cut the cables or shut down 'net access first thing. Doing so could cut off your ability to attack them or locate other methods they are using to attack you. If you've ever examined several rooted boxes you will see that the non-script kiddies - the ones who are doing this hardcore - are staying hidden. They might live on your box for months carefully manipulating the box without your knowledge. In some cases it has taken them many months just to gain access, they aren't about to blow it by being found.
These are just some of the things I think would be needed to be truly successful. The hardest part, of course, is getting those covert assets in the right places in the countries you might be attacking well in advance of actually attacking them. Strategies would have to be changed constantly so you don't develop a pattern the enemy could detect. And, you have to accept the fact that the most critical targets would be the most defended. The smart 'cyber-warrior' (gross) will know that those systems aren't important if you can take out the softer supporting systems. I could think of several attacks that could be effective. Most of them would involve some form of in-country asset. The trick is having the technical knowledge to know what to blow up, and where it a system is likely weak.
I've got some other ideas too, but I ain't sharing them while wearing combat boots. I'll tell ya that right now. And that is the second hardest part - attracting the people who are really capable of causing accurate and total destruction of a nations command and control infrastructure (both commercial and military). And that is why we are all laughing.
What they will get is people who can fool the commander in to thinking they are qualified. Probably some guy with a stack full of 'certifications' that 'prove' he is an expert. Those same people will moan and complain when they can't attack anything by the local library becuase those dawg on Chinese hackers are just too powerful. Of course, they will come up with their false victories to justify their large paychecks. Having the military handle this is a good idea, but only when you combine those assets with the tools to destroy specific targets quickly. And that means as a geek you need to be okay helping the military kill other geeks in a time of war. Geeks you might know. Even geeks you might respect. You aren't just shutting down computers here, you are going to tell them which buildings and targets to drop bombs on. If that isn't what this group does, then they will be totally ineffective.
In any way this all will have taken much longer than it takes some Russian 18 year old to update his hardware. The point is, for fast cyber attacks you don't need certification and rigourous testing of your material. The army (I'm not from the US but it's all the same everywhere) seems to cannot do without.
molmod.com - computing tips from a molecular modeling
I could look it up if I needed to, but it doesn't really come up.
I'll go with whoever makes me the best offer. If you can't afford me, that's fine, but don't bitch about it.
I've never actually seen a Gen Xer in a position of power. The world seems to prefer to leap over you if at all possible. I guess flannel, suicide rock and meth addictions aren't actually valuable live skills.
Not sure who the AF Chief of Staff these days is but when I was in, I would have loved to see this guy go tell that to General Jumper. I was pretty much forced out of the Air Force due to back problems caused by the Fit to Fight program. The impact running had on my back would have cramped me up so much that it was hard for me to even walk sometimes so I was pretty much on permenant waivers. Due to me being on waivers, I could not attend Airman Leadership School and get the training I needed (pretty much required) to become a SSgt so I could no longer be promoted pretty much. The military docs pretty much gave me the option of leaving when my enlistment time was up or be medically boarded out cause of the Fit to Fight program. Anywho this General is dreaming if he thinks he can get any experienced personnel into the military these days as long as we keep up with our current foreign policies which are going to be around for a while since Americans are dumb for not electing Ron Paul.
</rant>
Looks like he's also been hiding under a rock since the early 90s...
My new blog
easy decision.
What is network domination anyway? Is that anything like air superiority or superior firepower?
Iraq billions
Thanx for that, spares me the time to write pretty much exactly you just wrote.
"This should be fun, and by fun, I mean a wholly depressing insight into the cognitive ability of some grown adults."
What did his headstone say?
I once saw a picture of a headstone that said "Respawn in 9..."
Actually you can quit up to 180 days without any legal repercussions, you don't get an "Honorable", but a Entry level separation (ELS), that isn't a big deal anymore either. On the 181st day a lot of veteran's benefits kick in and it's difficult to get out without a General Discharge, but it's possible to get a hardship discharge that avoids the bad papers of a General Discharge. After your military obligation is fulfilled you can then just resign, but that's a serious action.
Generally the contract will be fulfilled if they give you the training you want, assign you to the duty station you want and your in a unit that uses your Military Occupation Specialty. If the 1SG in the unit decides your a better asset doing something your pretty much SOL.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
Who works in the same job for 20 years can't really be worth much.
it is unfortunate that it is perceived to be impossible to find programmers or admin/security personnel that do not have vile personal habits. i am currently enrolled in a computer science baccalaureate program that includes an NSA approved security certification curriculum, and i have some work experience in programming and system administration. i ALSO enjoy jogging, large backpacks, lifting weights, and shooting rifles.
General William Lord says. 'So if they can't run three miles (...) we need to have a culture where they fit in.'this comment is a cheap shot. general lord implies that the military can't recruit intelligent people because nerds are afraid of gym class. there are _many_ reasons that i have not enlisted, but this is not one of them. in my experience, people with technical aptitude come in the same variety of shapes, sizes, and dispositions as people in any other job that requires one to spend the work day in an office.
while i agree (with previous posters) that workers should be judged by their productive output rather than by their appearance, i believe that the "geek culture" has unnecessarily perpetuated a slob stereotype. the notion that professionalism and good personal presentation (or even hygiene) are beneath the notice of intelligent people appeals to our hubris. "if people don't like my shit attitude or personal appearance," we say to one another "then i wish them the best of luck in finding another genius." this is ok when interacting with machines, but even self-employed persons must communicate with other human beings from time to time. i am all for casual clothes and forthrightness, but it is usually to our advantage to take care of our health and to be courteous.
sadly, the slob stereotype encourages the obese, sarcastic, mountain dew swilling, sweatpants wearing minority to hold up their attitude as a point of style. i work with a few individuals that might be leading happier lives today, if only their peers did not encourage this view.
we should end the slovenly-geek stereotype. it hurts a small but impressionable minority, and it makes the rest of us look bad.
tell that to the Marine sigint community. brawn and brains are not mutually exclusive. the air force just likes to mollycoddle their lil pookies so they dont get butthurt. the Corps sets its standards high no matter what job it needs done. fuckin zoomies just dont want to man up to the fact that they are in fact supposed to be WARFIGHTERS. as in COMBATANTS. last thing i want to do is have to drag some fattie out of a firefight or from a flaming humvee and get picked off because i cant lug him to safety fast enough. or worse, be hit myself and have to rely on some scrawny pencil-neck that feels his flak jacket is too heavy so he replaces the SAPI plates with styrofoam, and hes still strugglin to move with any speed and intensity.
I thought they ripped my old outfit - "the lightning fast chicken fookers" - off. But guess that izn't an eagle claw.
Orwell: "In a Time of Universal Deceit, telling the Truth is a Revolutionary Act"