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Blue Lights To Reset Internal Clocks

holy_calamity writes "Researchers at RPI are testing the effects of putting blue LEDs inside cars to keep drivers alert. People driving through the night are much more likely to cause accidents because our circadian rhythms just want to sleep — blue light at around 450nm wavelength can fool them into thinking it's morning and keep them awake."

332 comments

  1. Does this mean that ... by Mirzabah · · Score: 5, Funny

    .. there really is justification for people pimpin' their rides????

    1. Re:Does this mean that ... by Kranfer · · Score: 2, Funny

      I think light in general keeps me awake... I drive a car with an in dash DVD player, GPS, sattelite radio (glows blue) and a bluetooth thing (glows blue too) maybe thats why I feel awake when I drive? I have no idea.

      --
      -- Josh
      "Whoopie! Man, that may have been a small one for Neil, but that's a long one for me!" - Pete Conrad
    2. Re:Does this mean that ... by Matrix2110 · · Score: 1

      Why yes, Pimp my ride with blinking blue LEDS shining into my eyes while I try to make that curve I misjudged by 10MPH or so.

      At Night.

      Hope the passengers have hefty life insurance policies.

      There is a lesson here folks!

    3. Re:Does this mean that ... by electrictroy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I feel awake because I get 9 hours sleep every night.

      That's the real problem in today's modern world --- people are staying up too late & not getting enough hours sack time. Then the lack of sleep catches up, and they nod off in the office (or worse, their car).

      --
      The government is not your daddy. Its purpose is not to raid middle-class neighbors' wallets and give it to you.
    4. Re:Does this mean that ... by plague3106 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I agree. We're not birds, you don't throw a towel over a person's head and they instantly doze off. People fall asleep behind the wheel because it's time for them to sleep.

    5. Re:Does this mean that ... by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      Personally, I feel more awake during the day when I get 7 hours sleep as opposed to 9 hours. When I get too much sleep, it takes me a couple hours to wake from the daze.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    6. Re:Does this mean that ... by egyptiankarim · · Score: 2, Interesting

      9 hours?!?! I don't think I could sleep for that long if I wanted to. At 8 you're already sleeping for 1/3 of your life. If you work a normal job you're spending about another 1/3 at work. That leaves only 1/3 of your life for self-motivated activity. Personally, that's just not enough for me, so I've tried to acclimate myself to less sleep (generally 4-5 hours a night and about 8 on Sundays), and am doing my best to find a job that more closely fits with my interests (but being just about fresh out of school, I realize I probably need to "pay my dues" for a while).

      --
      Eek!
    7. Re:Does this mean that ... by Pope · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Try doing that same schedule when you're 35.

      --
      It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
    8. Re:Does this mean that ... by afex · · Score: 2, Insightful

      " (but being just about fresh out of school, I realize I probably need to "pay my dues" for a while)." just wanted to quickly chime in here - i'm not sure what your major is (i'm a BSEE) but do NOT continue with that mentality. I'm 3 years out of school and i LOVE my job. absolutely LOVE it. (i'm a software/hardware/embedded systems design engineer at a small firm) here's some knowledge i wish i would have had when i grad'd: 1) Do NOT assume that you can't like your job because you're fresh 2) accept that the first job you get may not be the right one. 3) do NOT be afraid to leave your job if you don't like it. (*but you probably should have something lined up if you do leave...) 4) be confident - the senior engineers and the new engineers at my firm get along GREAT. we understand that newbies know some things that the oldies dont (wireless stuff, dsp, etc) and the oldies know a lot of things we dont (low band RF, power supply design, heavy analog stuff) sorry just wanted to quickly nip that in the bud : )

    9. Re:Does this mean that ... by springbox · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Speaking of sleep.. I usually wake up after 8 hours of sleep really tired because my alarm keeps interrupting me when I'm in REM. I know there was a special REM monitoring watch on Amazon, but cheap suggestions would be appreciated.

    10. Re:Does this mean that ... by nospam007 · · Score: 1

      ...and if you bathe them in blue lights on the way home the evening, they'll never get to sleep on time.

    11. Re:Does this mean that ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think most slash-dotters do enough 'self-motivating' already, regardless of how much sleep they get.

    12. Re:Does this mean that ... by Chyeld · · Score: 1
      You may be interested in studying polyphasic sleep. The idea being to break up your day with more wake/nap cycles than just the one you currently have. Done correctly you gain quite a bit of 'lost time' Though in terms of 'paying your dues' it might be a bit difficult to work out since a lot of that lost time is during the period when the rest of us are sleeping.

      Here is the blog of someone who tried it out and found it worked rather well outside of the matching their time to the rest of the world's time issue.

    13. Re:Does this mean that ... by BooRolla · · Score: 1

      No

    14. Re:Does this mean that ... by alta · · Score: 1

      Wow, this explains why after walking out of the server room (we keep our many blue LED's COLD) I'm wide awake.

      --
      Do not meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, for they are subtle, and quick to anger.
    15. Re:Does this mean that ... by Man+On+Pink+Corner · · Score: 1

      Try setting the alarm to wake you up after 7 1/2 hours. Supposedly, REM cycles come in 90-minute phases, so by cutting out the extra 1/2 hour of sleep, you may be able to avoid being interrupted in the middle of a cycle.

    16. Re:Does this mean that ... by The+Spoonman · · Score: 1

      Try doing that same schedule when you're 35.

      I have no trouble doing it at 38, and when my baby arrives in May, I'm anticipating doing it on even less. Perhaps it's what you're eating? :)

      Oh, and no, I never drink coffee and only rarely drink soda.

      --
      Which is more painful? Going to work or gouging your eye out with a spoon? Find out!
      http://www.workorspoon.com
    17. Re:Does this mean that ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I will be 42 in 3 months - and that is my exact schedule. It works for me. I admit I have tried to get it down to 3 hours a night, but I get crunchy - not tired though.

    18. Re:Does this mean that ... by hedwards · · Score: 1

      Precisely, I have the home version of these, and it works quite well for me. But I can only use it in the morning, otherwise it can and does mess up my circadian.

      Having this sort of thing in the car isn't the worst thing ever, but it should only be used in the morning or whenever a person is beginning their day. And it would be effectively useless in the evening as it would cause increased insomnia.

      The lights don't really prevent insomnia, even with one of those lights a person can still stay up all night, and one will eventually hit the point where they're falling asleep in front of the lights.

      Seems like this is more risk than benefit really.

    19. Re:Does this mean that ... by DiscipleN2k · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty much the same way. 5 hours if perfect for me. Anywhere between 4 & 7 hours and I'm alright. But if I get more than 8 hours of sleep in a night, I'm a zombie for the entire day. I'm just not made to sleep that much.

    20. Re:Does this mean that ... by corychristison · · Score: 1

      I'm going to assume you've never been to the flat lands and worked on a farm.

      Around here (in the summer time) sun is up at 5am, and down at 11pm. They are up at the crack of dawn, eat a nice meal and get to work. At noon they take an hour off and have a good lunch. At 8pm they are done work, have another nice meal and then they get to do the things they want to do other than work.

      Keep in mind most farming (be it wheat, corn, cattle, etc.) it's pretty akin to construction. Lots of lifting, being out in the heat most of the day, and long freaking hours. I don't think most people here on slashdot would be able to adapt (especially that being out in the daylight thing). A lot of thee people have been doing it since they were 16. Some now sit at 60+ and day-in day-out they do the same thing.

    21. Re:Does this mean that ... by ToyKeeper · · Score: 1

      For some people, getting enough sleep isn't a simple matter of getting to bed on time. Free runners, for example, find a traditional schedule not only difficult but actually unhealthy.

      Wikipedia has quite a bit more detail about sleep disorders:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circadian_rhythm_sleep_disorder

    22. Re:Does this mean that ... by terrymr · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it's amazing how little sleep you can get by on when you have a baby in the house.

    23. Re:Does this mean that ... by aliquis · · Score: 1

      Yeah, a much better solution would just be to let them sleep at night and travel in the morning... Or get robotrucks.

    24. Re:Does this mean that ... by NateTech · · Score: 1

      Depends on how tight you wrap the towel.

      Oh, did you say over their head? I thought you said around their neck...

      My bad. Carry on.

      --
      +++OK ATH
    25. Re:Does this mean that ... by MikeFM · · Score: 1

      Sure that's the real problem but what can we do about it besides find tech fixes? I work 40+ hours a week, school + homework is another 40 hours a week, and I have a wife and family to spend time with. There just aren't enough hours in the day to squeeze everything in. Even with only sleeping three hours a night it's hard to fit it all in. Luckily I've hardly slept for the past 15 years (I'm 30 now) so it's not that rough on me. For people that need more sleep it must be really hard.

      I don't fall asleep at work, school, or in the car but if I try to watch tv with my family I tend to fall asleep a lot. Not sure how much of that is because of lack of sleep and how much is because of the quality of television programming. :)

      --
      At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
  2. Please place all * light jokes in this thread. by gQuigs · · Score: 1

    Thank You for your cooperation.

    1. Re:Please place all * light jokes in this thread. by Nymz · · Score: 4, Funny
    2. Re:Please place all * light jokes in this thread. by nebaz · · Score: 5, Funny

      Blue lights are more likely to wake you up not because you think it's morning, but because you think the police are chasing you. One time I was driving, and for some reason was paranoid that there was a cop around the corner and I came across a house covered with blue Christmas lights. That woke me up.

      --
      Rhymes that keep their secrets will unfold behind the clouds.There upon the rainbow is the answer to a neverending story
    3. Re:Please place all * light jokes in this thread. by nebaz · · Score: 5, Funny

      Speaking of sleeping and car jokes, this old chestnut comes to mind.

      When I die, I want to go peacefully, in my sleep, like my grandfather.

      Not screaming in terror like his passengers.

      --
      Rhymes that keep their secrets will unfold behind the clouds.There upon the rainbow is the answer to a neverending story
    4. Re:Please place all * light jokes in this thread. by glavenoid · · Score: 5, Funny

      Brilliant! Quite an illuminating journal entry you have there. Thanks for shedding some light on it!

      --
      I, for one, am looking forward to the inevitable /. beta rollout fallout.
    5. Re:Please place all * light jokes in this thread. by SkyDude · · Score: 4, Funny
      I think this is a bad idea. I mean, when I travel, I sometimes go by bus. Never get any sleep on a bus.

      When I travel by plane, I never get any sleep. Kids yelling, flight attendants interrupting me.

      But, when I'm driving myself, I can fall asleep no problem. Get some of my best shuteye when I'm behind the wheel.......

      --
      == First cross river, then insult alligator.
    6. Re:Please place all * light jokes in this thread. by OutSourcingIsTreason · · Score: 5, Funny

      To me blue lights say, "Attention K-mart shoppers!"

      --
      "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Mussolini
    7. Re:Please place all * light jokes in this thread. by powerlord · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Why I for one welcome our new "Blue light shining", Sleep depravation interrogation, overlords. :)

      --
      This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
    8. Re:Please place all * light jokes in this thread. by CastrTroy · · Score: 2, Funny

      Maybe it's just because I'm Canadian, but to me, blue light means snow removal. Either that, or crappy beer.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    9. Re:Please place all * light jokes in this thread. by anexkahn · · Score: 1

      So would red lights have the opposite effect by fooling people into thinking it was night time?

      --
      Curious about Storage and Virtualization? Check out
    10. Re:Please place all * light jokes in this thread. by JamJam · · Score: 1

      How many Slashdotters does it take to change a light bulb?
      thank gawd that link wasn't slashdotted! ;)
    11. Re:Please place all * light jokes in this thread. by ivan256 · · Score: 1

      In New York, highway patrol has red lights.

    12. Re:Please place all * light jokes in this thread. by aquila.solo · · Score: 1

      In a way. Red light doesn't change the dilation of your pupils as much. That's the reason amateur astronomy circles use red filters on their flashlights, so when they turn them off it doesn't take as long to readjust to nighttime conditions. It's also the reason most alarm clocks use red lights, it's not as big a shock when you wake up in the middle of the night and roll over to check the clock. I have a usb hub with a single blue LED and I can find my way around my office in otherwise blackout conditions. AS

    13. Re:Please place all * light jokes in this thread. by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      The trick is to only sleep 1/2 at a time.
      If you drive with one-eye closed on long trips, raise your hands!
      Freaks the wife out when I have the one eye she can see closed...

    14. Re:Please place all * light jokes in this thread. by terrymr · · Score: 1

      Human eyes are actually much less sensitive to blue light - maybe because daylight contains so much of it. So a blue light has to be much brighter to illuminate as much as a red one.

    15. Re:Please place all * light jokes in this thread. by plover · · Score: 1

      That reminds me: when I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather, not screaming in horror like his passengers.

      --
      John
  3. For morning people, maybe.. by threephaseboy · · Score: 5, Funny

    "blue light at around 450nm wavelength can fool them into thinking its morning and keep us awake."

    I'm rarely awake before 2pm, you insensitive clod!
    --
    .
    1. Re:For morning people, maybe.. by Serenissima · · Score: 1

      Well apparently, that problem has been fixed. If you just put blue LED's all around your house and work area, you'll never get tired and you'll never have to sleep! Problem solved!
      It's not like you'll ever just be so tired that you'll just want to sleep! If you put that blue light in your car, it means it will take away all your exhaustion! That means it must be safe!

      --
      Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. But light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
    2. Re:For morning people, maybe.. by Eudial · · Score: 1

      I'm rarely awake before 2pm, you insensitive clod!


      Better yet, I live close enough to the north pole that I have a significant period of the year when the sun never sets. I can sleep in near broad daylight.
      --
      GAAH! MY PRINTER IS ON FIRE!!! PUT IT OUT! PUT IT OUT!
    3. Re:For morning people, maybe.. by PayPaI · · Score: 1

      I've got a better idea. We all know rust never sleeps, right? So, if we all rust, we'll never sleep. Eh? Eh?

    4. Re:For morning people, maybe.. by Daniel_Staal · · Score: 1

      Actually, that brings up an interesting point: if this color of light is what signals to the body that it's 'daytime' (and therefore you should be awake), wouldn't having it around us at night mess up our sleep rhythms? I mean, 'jet lag' is already a bitch, imagine getting it just because you drove back from a party too late one night.

      --
      'Sensible' is a curse word.
  4. Is this really the answer? by TibbonZero · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yes, I know there are times that we've all had to drive with less sleep than we should have... but is this a good answer?
    To me it would seem to inspire false confidence on the part of the driver, where they might think that they could stay up and not have to worry about falling asleep driving since they had their blue lights blinking or whatever.

    I'm thinking that the real solution is making people in the public more aware of the dangers of driving with too little sleep. Everyone knows they shouldn't drink and drive (yet many still do) but not enough people realize how dangerous driving when tired is.

    Most of all, i hope they don't put these in 18-wheelers are another way to squeeze yet more driving time out of the guys.

    --
    Tibbon
    tibbon.com
    1. Re:Is this really the answer? by QuantumG · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Driving is dangerous.

      When you get into a car you take your life in your hands. Everyone should know this.

      We accept the dangerous because the convenience is worth it.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    2. Re:Is this really the answer? by anagama · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So? Some activities make driving safer, some make it more dangerous. Nobody is disputing that driving is dangerous. Driving while intoxicated is more dangerous than driving while sober. Driving while talking on a cell is more dangerous than driving while paying attention. Driving while tired is more dangerous than driving while alert. Everyone understands the danger vs. utility aspect of driving. But there is no reason to exacerbate the danger.

      As for blue lights in the car, I think it's potentially a bad idea. Blue light makes it hard to see in the dark. Red light doesn't affect night vision so much. Besides, I F*#$ing sick of all the blue lights gratuitously stuck all over the place -- like in the front of an otherwise nice quality DVD player. I'm sick of having to tape over blue lights or prop up DVD covers to right this idiocy about bright blue light.

      And as for drivers with those ultra-blue blinding lights, I want to build an auto-tracking fully automatic BB gun (everyone knows driving is dangerous -- anyone remember Deathtrack from the bad old DOS days? loved that game).

      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
    3. Re:Is this really the answer? by Starayo · · Score: 1

      :(

      I like the blue lights. They're all... Future-y.

      R&D has seen the future, and it is blue!

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    4. Re:Is this really the answer? by Vskye · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Most of all, i hope they don't put these in 18-wheelers are another way to squeeze yet more driving time out of the guys.
      First off, your comment deems that you have never driven a 18-wheeler, Most company's back in the day taught you how to cheat on your log books so you can drive more than 500 miles a day. The first day I was hired, they taught me all of this. They push your ass to drive, and if you don't produce they fire your ass. Some good companies are not this way, granted... but to generalize this isn't a good thing. Ever drive 10 hours, then have to unload a 48' trailer by hand and then pick up a load and get sleep? It's a PITA, and that's why I don't do it anymore. And no, I've never crashed my truck.
      --
      Life was hell, then I discovered Linux...
    5. Re:Is this really the answer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most traffic accidents are caused by sober drivers.

    6. Re:Is this really the answer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      I like the blue lights. They're all... Future-y.

      R&D has seen the future, and it is blue!

      I like my future like I like my movies... blue.
    7. Re:Is this really the answer? by fractoid · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Besides, I F*#$ing sick of all the blue lights gratuitously stuck all over the place -- like in the front of an otherwise nice quality DVD player. I'm sick of having to tape over blue lights or prop up DVD covers to right this idiocy about bright blue light. I think a lot of the problem here is that most blue LEDs used are ultrabright models that can comfortably if dimly illuminate a whole mid-sized room, and are far overkill for simply indicating power or status. Designers just whack 'em in because they're the first ones they come across in the catalogue.

      Reminds me of that story a while back where they found out that keyboard indicators for caps/num/scroll lock were bright enough to semaphore a message out of a server room and down the hall.
      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    8. Re:Is this really the answer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The first time I saw the blue led on the PS2, I knew it was a shitty console.

    9. Re:Is this really the answer? by EvanED · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Most traffic accidents are caused by sober drivers.

      Most drivers are sober. You should look at the rate of accidents of drunk and sober drivers; I have a suspicion of what you would find.

    10. Re:Is this really the answer? by Cadallin · · Score: 0, Troll
      In my opinion, the convenience isn't worth it. At all. Mostly because people are not merely a threat to themselves while behind the wheel, they are a threat to pedestrians, cyclists, and children. I'd also argue that "Car Culture" contributes to our sedentary life style (which isn't good for long term health, remember? It causes hypertension, increases risk of heart attack, stroke, and generally lowers quality of life)

      Cars suck. Big Time. In fact, pretty much everything that is wrong with America today, I can probably figure out a way to implicate America's love affair with the automobile as a major contributing factor. Dependence on Foreign Oil? Check. Consumer Debt Culture? A yep. Urban Sprawl? Check! Fast-Food as encouraged by the drive through window (further increasing the size of our fat asses)? Check! I can keep going all night folks.

    11. Re:Is this really the answer? by yurivr · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I agree. But what about emergency situations or military applications? Seems like you could build these right into a HUD in situations where you need to be extra toasty. Day to day, if this takes off it will cause at least as many accidents as it resolves. Your bioclock exists for a reason. I visited St. Petersburg a few years back and experienced 3 weeks of "white nights." I got headaches, nausea and dizzyness after a few days. By the time I got used to it there was night again. It's never about the idea, but the implementation.

    12. Re:Is this really the answer? by Valcrus · · Score: 1

      Man I miss Deathtrack. I played that game constantly. On the blue light issues I think it would depend on the person. I know for me a bright blue light when I'm tired makes me blink alot or squint.

    13. Re:Is this really the answer? by timeOday · · Score: 1

      To me it would seem to inspire false confidence on the part of the driver, where they might think that they could stay up and not have to worry about falling asleep driving since they had their blue lights blinking or whatever.
      Sounds like we'd better remove airbags, seatbelts, crumple zones, and antilock brakes too. Wouldn't want to inspire false confidence.
    14. Re:Is this really the answer? by epine · · Score: 5, Interesting

      We accept the dangerous because the convenience is worth it.

      I remember back when I played Quake II a lot, I would see a lot of things on the road that would cause a neural reflect to tap the "7" key IIRC which selected the rocket launcher. We "accept" the dangers created by the stupidity of those around us because government heavily repress our primal responses. Man, if I ever became the overlord at the DMV, things would be different.

      That includes those people who think that driving at 50kph over the speed limit entitles them to private use of the inside lane. Look at me, I'm doing 160 in a 110 zone, everybody F'ing pull into the right lane like this is my private German autobahn or I'm going to hang inches behind your bumper pulsing my halogen highbeams like a prolapsed hemorrhoid. I don't feel myself radiating "acceptance", toward your average MF POS.

      If you are decoding my driving behaviour as "acceptance" your powers of perception are extremely dim. The things some people do on the highway done in a wolf pack would see your liver served up as communal pate. Now and then a few aggressive bumper humpers hung from the signage scaffolds would soon set things right. To properly designate the offense, the bumper humpers could be hung with their pants around their ankles. Is Spitzer's wife known to be in the vicinity? No? That must have been another bumper humper. I'm digging, digging, digging and not finding this "acceptance" whereof you speak within myself.

      Back to the subject at hand, I actually *have* non-24 hour sleep-wake disorder, and I can tell you that blue light does not function as described in any research I've seen.

      Both melatonin and blue light have phase response curves with a fixed phase relationship to your daily body temp. min., that varies somewhat from one person to the next. For most people daily min. occurs somewhere around 05:00. A sleep study which captures this marker involves finding subjects willing (and able) to sleep wired up with rectal thermometers. For improved subject comfort, most sleep studies use DLMO (dim light melatonin offset) as a proxy marker instead. This occurs in the mid evening, and is marked by the first detectable increase of melatonin concentration in saliva (which doesn't occur if the eyes are exposed to bright light).

      Blue light exposure in the early morning in the hour *before* your natural rising time will advance your cycle (earlier rising time). Blue light in the evening will delay your cycle (later rising time). To maintain a 24-hour sleep cycle, I require melatonin in the late afternoon and blue light on waking.

      As a side note, the neurons in the retina that detect this blue light and signal phase change to the SCN are independent of the optical neurons. Some blind people retain this sensitivity, some don't (e.g. complete retinal loss). The blind people without this retinal sensitivity often suffer from non-24-hour sleep-wake disorder.

      Both the existence of this retinal cell population and the phase response curves are fairly recent discoveries. I've only been able to successfully treat my condition for a year now (no help from my doctors, I ended up finding the research myself). Prior to that, was two decades where my body clock delayed an average of 1h15 per day. Internally, I was living on Mars time.

      Subjectively, trying to live in day mode while my body wasn't was *exactly* the same as discovering each day that you are now experiencing an extra hour of jet lag as compared to the day before.

      Imagine the suckiest jet lag you've ever experienced knowing the next day it will only get one hour worse, and this will continue for weeks. I would eventually reach the point of total circadian insanity, have a waking period 26 to 28 hours long, sleep for 12 to 16 hours, and wake up feeling great again. The funny thing about those long waking periods: I could code 26 hours straight and not suffer any diminishment in my vigilance contrary to most research (I have

    15. Re:Is this really the answer? by vegiVamp · · Score: 0

      *My* suspicion is that you'll find that it is often the same drivers that are likely to cause accidents, regardless of wether they're sober.

      In other words, someone who tends to drive safely when sober is likely to do so when he's drunk as well and excercise even greater care exactly because he's drunk; while someone who already drives agressively when sober is probably going to be even more stupid when drunk, and thus have an even greater chance of causing accidents.

      No scientific basis whatsoever for this, just my own experience and observations.

      --
      What a depressingly stupid machine.
    16. Re:Is this really the answer? by QuantumG · · Score: 1

      That includes those people who think that driving at 50kph over the speed limit entitles them to private use of the inside lane. Look at me, I'm doing 160 in a 110 zone, everybody F'ing pull into the right lane like this is my private German autobahn or I'm going to hang inches behind your bumper pulsing my halogen highbeams like a prolapsed hemorrhoid. I don't feel myself radiating "acceptance", toward your average MF POS. In most civilized countries the "inside" lane is for overtaking.. people who do less than speed limit in it are just slowing up the traffic.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    17. Re:Is this really the answer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not only is it not much of a solution, it also creates more problems. Blue lights are terrible for night-vision. Bright blue lights are the perfect thing for creating retinal artifacts which obscure your night vision. Red lights on the other hand, do not hinder night vision at all.

      Id much rather have a tired driver who knows hes tired & can see. Than a tired driver who thinks hes not & has blotches all over his night vision.

      "i hope they don't put these in 18-wheelers are another way to squeeze yet more driving time out of the guys."

      Doesnt matter what they put in your truck, you only get 11 hours driving time per day as per federal law.

    18. Re:Is this really the answer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      *My* suspicion is that you'll find that it is often the same drivers that are likely to cause accidents, regardless of wether they're sober. In other words, someone who tends to drive safely when sober is likely to do so when he's drunk as well and excercise even greater care exactly because he's drunk; while someone who already drives agressively when sober is probably going to be even more stupid when drunk, and thus have an even greater chance of causing accidents. No scientific basis whatsoever for this, just my own experience and observations.
      You have a couple misspellings. Let me take care of them for you:

      I want it to be true, so I'm going to say it is.
      There. Fixed it.
    19. Re:Is this really the answer? by rolfc · · Score: 1

      "I'm thinking that the real solution is making people in the public more aware of the dangers of driving with too little sleep. Everyone knows they shouldn't drink and drive (yet many still do) but not enough people realize how dangerous driving when tired is."

      Yes, you are right of course. When I drive across Europe, I always make sure that I sleep enough, But, you know how many there are that klick on every link in the mail when they really should know better. You have to look at it at a anti-virus program, it protect us from those that does not know better.

    20. Re:Is this really the answer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cars suck. Big Time. In fact, pretty much everything that is wrong with America today, I can probably figure out a way to implicate America's love affair with the automobile as a major contributing factor. Dependence on Foreign Oil? Check. Consumer Debt Culture? A yep. Urban Sprawl? Check! Fast-Food as encouraged by the drive through window (further increasing the size of our fat asses)? Check! I can keep going all night folks. That's dead on. Plus, the prevailence of cars is why we have such awful public transportation. Personally, if I could get rid of my car and take public transit or just ride a bike* I would be very happy. I hate paying insurance (goes up every time I pay, despite the fact that I've never got a ticket or had an accident), dealing with the assholes on the road, dealing with pigs, seeing cameras installed at the lights, etc.

      * Doing 20 miles each way every day isn't practical. And, no, I can't move closer to work since I can't afford anything closer.
    21. Re:Is this really the answer? by matria · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Please let me know when you get behind the wheel so I can make sure to get off the road. The fool who assures himself that he drives just as well when he's been drinking is the most dangerous fool on the road.

    22. Re:Is this really the answer? by X3J11 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      First off, your comment deems that you have never driven a 18-wheeler, Most company's back in the day taught you how to cheat on your log books so you can drive more than 500 miles a day. The first day I was hired, they taught me all of this. They push your ass to drive, and if you don't produce they fire your ass. Some good companies are not this way, granted... but to generalize this isn't a good thing.

      While I've never driven an 18-wheeler, a friend of mine works for a carrier company hauling chemicals, usually hazmat stuff, across the border (we're Canadian, but he goes state-side quite a bit). While it may not be indicative of all companies, his at least is quite clear that they are to go by the book on everything, especially with their logbooks. They've been cracking down on drivers and their employers when it comes to anything that could affect the safety of the driver and other people on the road.

      I don't know how long ago your experience was, and I can't really speak for American companies, or even other Canadian ones, but for the company my friend works for, cheating with the logbook to get more miles in per day is a big no no.

      Some of the stories I've heard from my friend, though... man, I'm glad I'm not a truck driver. The "lot lizard" stories are enough as it is...

    23. Re:Is this really the answer? by CdBee · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "When driving after 18 hours awake you have the concentration of someone who's hovering around the UK drink-drive limit. If you drive after you've been awake for 24 hours, you have the same concentration level as someone who's downed half a bottle of Scotch" - Jeremy Clarkson

      --
      I have been a user for about 10 years. This ends Feb 2014. The site's been ruined. I'm off. Dice, FU
    24. Re:Is this really the answer? by afxgrin · · Score: 1

      This isn't World War II. Bomber pilots don't have to read maps and keep awesome night vision to see ground targets with no street lighting.

      You'll have the head lights on, it's probably just a little bit of blue goes a long way. I know when I use my fluorescent desk lamp I feel far more alert, and able to work later hours when compared to just using the crappy incandescent light bulb in this room. I'm down wit da blue LED - with an on/off switch.

    25. Re:Is this really the answer? by vegiVamp · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I never said that. I'm saying that I think that the risk of accidents for a given driver when drunk is proportionate to the risk of accidents when that same driver is sober.

      --
      What a depressingly stupid machine.
    26. Re:Is this really the answer? by bint · · Score: 5, Informative

      More careful drivers won't drive at all when drunk. Just *my* own experience. As for statistics:

      "For all Americans between 5 and 35 years of age, motor vehicle accidents are the number one cause of death. Over 50% of these accidents are caused by alcohol impaired drivers."

      from http://www.duipictures.com/statisti.htm with the note "From statistics complied by the U. S. Dept. of Transportation and the N. H. Department of Safety." Perhaps there is more to read there.

    27. Re:Is this really the answer? by c0p0n · · Score: 1

      A sleep study which captures this marker involves finding subjects willing (and able) to sleep wired up with rectal thermometers.

      Good luck with your search.

      --

      Your head a splode
    28. Re:Is this really the answer? by DrLang21 · · Score: 1

      I find the idea of using light therapy in this way mildly disturbing. The result of doing this will set your circadian rythm to wake up at night, which will throw you all out of wack if you have to get up for work/school in the morning. An out of wack circadian rythm can really mess you up, and there are devices on the market specifically designed to help stabilize your circadian rythm. These devices are NOT intended to be used to help people deprive themselves of sleep. just because you don't think you're tired, if you're sleep deprived, you will suffer all of the symptoms of sleep deprivation. And ironically this includes impared mental and physical reflexes, making you more dangerous on the road.

      --
      I see the glass as full with a FoS of 2.
    29. Re:Is this really the answer? by Zorbane · · Score: 1, Funny

      Ahhh yes, I cherish particular hatred for those blue lights. Once, in my youthful folly, I got the Netgear router with the light dome that was reminiscent of a flying saucer. I was in college at that time, and ever night I regretted it as my router just happened to come up about to my bed height. Every night felt like I was about to either be abducted by aliens, or sleeping with a poltergeist (yes, it came with a black cap to cover the lights...no it did not really work).

    30. Re:Is this really the answer? by electrictroy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Riiiight. And now here are the POSITIVE aspects of car ownership:

      - I don't have to live within walking distance of my job (inside Baltimore City) with 1000 people all trying to squeeze into the same building (due to lack of living space/overpopulation).

      - Instead we can spread out to the countryside and find plenty of room to breathe & live like human beings instead of ants (crawling on top of one another).

      - Instead of having to walk to the local market every day, I can buy a whole month's worth of food in a single trip, thanks to my car. That saves time and lets me pursue other hobbies.

      - On weekends I can go visit my parents or friends... something which would be impossible w/o a car. (There's train service, but it takes half a day to travel just 60 miles. The train is inconvenient.)

      I would not want to give up my car
      (a 70mpg Honda Insight by the way).

      --
      The government is not your daddy. Its purpose is not to raid middle-class neighbors' wallets and give it to you.
    31. Re:Is this really the answer? by Lumpy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Everyone understands the danger vs. utility aspect of driving.

      you are giving the general populace WAYYYY too much credit. Back when I was a Emergency responder the #1 cause in a crash was people not paying attention. Many times was some moron trying to grab a CD case or other item from the passenger side floor while driving. Others were women putting on makeup, men shaving, etc... From my experience in college with dealing with crashes first hand, Most people do not know that when they take their attention from the road it's dangerous as hell. One did not think turning the wheel, if she was not looking out the window, would turn the car!

      The number of incredibly stupid people out there is increasing at an alarming rate. This past winter I watched a guy lose it on the highway 1/2 a mile up. the snow plume from him hitting the bridge embankment was huge. so I got over and started to slow down. the guy next to me who was looking out the same clear highway and who saw the same thing did not slow down like I did. He ended up as a secondary collision. When I asked him, "Didnt you see it happen?" he said yes, but was in a hurry and though he could make it around him.

      That's plain old, full on stupid right there.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    32. Re:Is this really the answer? by electrictroy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In most U.S. states, if you ride in the "passing lane" you can get ticketed by a cop.

      That's because the passing lane is supposed to remain open for... yep you guessed it... passing. If you're blocking that lane, then you're being inconsiderate towards other people (and may get ticketed). Move over and let others use the passing lane for its stated purpose.

      --
      The government is not your daddy. Its purpose is not to raid middle-class neighbors' wallets and give it to you.
    33. Re:Is this really the answer? by Torvaun · · Score: 1

      My PS2 only has green and red LEDs. Is this a slim PS2 thing, a typo for PS3, or an incredibly inept troll?

      --
      I see your informative link, and raise you a pithy comment.
    34. Re:Is this really the answer? by Jason+Levine · · Score: 4, Informative

      There's a standard drunk driving test that I've seen done many times. I believe even Mythbusters did it once. First, you drive through an obstacle course of cones sober. Then you have a few beers (or some other alcoholic beverage) and drive through the same course. Invariably, you knock over more cones when drunk than when sober. Being intoxicated can wreck havoc with your sense of timing and space, which isn't a good thing when maneuvering a two ton pile of steel at 30mph or more past other two ton piles of steel. On the obstacle course it is just a matter of some flattened cones. On the road, it's a life ended. Is it possible to be drunk and still drive without incident? Sure. However, I still wouldn't say that a drunk driver could ever be considered a safe driver.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    35. Re:Is this really the answer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can't thank you enough for this post. I think there may be some answers to my own condition in it (doctors aren't much help for me either) and I now have some pointers to research.

    36. Re:Is this really the answer? by salec · · Score: 3, Interesting

      As for blue lights in the car, I think it's potentially a bad idea. Blue light makes it hard to see in the dark.
      I have noticed that most people, myself included, cannot focus their vision on "deep blue" (sapphire blue) glowing signs at night, those remain "fuzzy" no matter how hard you concentrate. Making any displays but the simplest indicator lamps with blue LEDs is ridiculous. However, as long as you give up trying to read them and ignore them, they don't affect seeing other object in your visual field. "Nixie tube blue" (light blue, aquamarine blue) is definitely easier on eyes... and it is also more similar to "morning sky blue", but I am yet to see such LEDs.
    37. Re:Is this really the answer? by vegiVamp · · Score: 1

      I suggest you read both his and my statement again. We're saying quite different things, although indeed both using the same alphabet - maybe that's what confusing you.

      --
      What a depressingly stupid machine.
    38. Re:Is this really the answer? by bemenaker · · Score: 1

      What about night vision. Blue light is the worst thing you can do to your eyes as far as retaining you night vision. Is this going to make you blind to the road, but awake?

    39. Re:Is this really the answer? by steveo777 · · Score: 1

      I used to work in construction three years ago. Unless, like the GP poster noted, you're carrying Hazmats, you will eventually start referring to your log book, as your 'comic book'. If there isn't a GPS system in your truck with an electronic log, odds are you're comic book only looks by the book. Most of the guys dropping off our stuff would have a good three days to deliver and return. This was from St. Louis, MO to anytown, MN. He'd be dropping our stuff, and home with the wife and kids within a day. Just for the time off.

      --
      This sig isn't original enough, it's time to come up with something witty...
    40. Re:Is this really the answer? by vegiVamp · · Score: 1

      True; and I should have chosen slightly different wording, as that was not at all what I meant to imply.

      On the other hand - and not generalizing by a long shot - it *is* possible to be drunk and drive better than some people do when sober.

      --
      What a depressingly stupid machine.
    41. Re:Is this really the answer? by westlake · · Score: 4, Insightful
      someone who tends to drive safely when sober is likely to do so when he's drunk as well and excercise even greater care exactly because he's drunk;

      This is loopy notion even for Slashdot.

      The drunk is not in control of anything.

      His response time is lousy and his judgment is worse. It is quite impossible for him to "exercise greater care."

    42. Re:Is this really the answer? by thousandinone · · Score: 1

      My PS2 has a red LED, a green LED, and a blue LED. A single red one that indicates the power switch is on but the system is on 'standby' A green one and a blue one that are on to indicate power, active mode, and a disc in the tray

    43. Re:Is this really the answer? by TheSkyIsPurple · · Score: 1

      I remember one gal who learned to keep her Mustang going straight ahead by making sure the horsey on her steering went nice and flat. You'd think there'd be some sort of training and/or examination before people get a license to drive =-)

    44. Re:Is this really the answer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Reminds me of that story a while back where they found out that keyboard indicators for caps/num/scroll lock were bright enough to semaphore a message out of a server room and down the hall.

      This word does not mean what you think it means.
    45. Re:Is this really the answer? by HAKdragon · · Score: 1

      Grandparent is a troll, but the PS2 has a blue LED on the eject button. Similarly, the PS3 has an blue LED to indicate that there is a disc in the system. It also has a red LED when the system is in standby which turns green when the system is on.

      --
      "Our opponent is an alien starship packed with atomic bombs. We have a protractor."
    46. Re:Is this really the answer? by Kozz · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Where I'm at in the upper midwest, the phrase "passing lane" isn't quite as common as you suggest. Frequently people just do whatever the hell they want, regardless of lane or their relative speed. I can't say I've ever heard (personally) of anyone being either warned or ticketed for traveling in the left-most ("passing") lane for an extended period. The closest we get to enforcement of this principle is the occasional sign which reads "Slower Traffic Keep Right".

      I once spoke to a moron who said, "I drive at exactly the speed limit, so I am the faster traffic. Those people piling up behind me in the left lane should just suck it up." Speaking to a few friends who are in law enforcement, they said while he may not be directly breaking any traffic laws, they would probably cite him for disrupting traffic flow (or something along those lines).

      There's no monopoly on stupid, that's for sure.

      --
      I only post comments when someone on the internet is wrong.
    47. Re:Is this really the answer? by flyingfsck · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Nearly 30% of all fatal accidents involving large trucks in the US happen during the hours of darkness"

      Hmm, I think they should rather work on the 70% of accidents that happen during the day.

      --
      Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
    48. Re:Is this really the answer? by FredFredrickson · · Score: 1

      I thought I was either crazy, or had horrible eyesight! Thanks for bringing this up. I agree! Even in a partially lit room, this is an issue. I was at dinner at an Applebees recently, they have neon signs at the bar. One was a blue beer sign, and I just couldn't focus on it. However, everything else looked normal. How strange. I wonder what the science is behind that...

      --
      Belief? Hope? Preference?The Existential Vortex
    49. Re:Is this really the answer? by Otter+Popinski · · Score: 1

      Straying OT here, but those studies tend to be somewhat skewed, and not necessarily by researcher bias. In most places, if one driver involved in a collision is found to be intoxicated, he is considered to have caused the accident. I also suspect the linked site is (unintentionally) misrepresenting figures from a report that indicated correlation, not causation.

      I have never understood why MADD and the like insist on doing this kind of thing. Surely the undistorted statistics are scary enough.

    50. Re:Is this really the answer? by Zakabog · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I often take random road trips out west (I live in NY) with all my stuff to go hiking, biking (put the bikes on a bike rack in the back), climbing. Things that would be impossible to do without my car. Unless I rode my bike across the country (boss wouldn't be happy with me taking off a few months), or shipped everything out west and took a train (which would be incredibly expensive and not worth it.) Plus taking a train I wouldn't get to stop where I want to take photos or explore (I've pulled over to the side of the highway to climb a mountain before) or just look around. I think the car is one of the greatest tools we have. Plus these lights are for truck drivers who are driving all night anyway.

    51. Re:Is this really the answer? by innerweb · · Score: 1

      Really? A person who feels wide awake is not necessarily alert. They merely feel wide awake. Like a drunk who has consumed a pot of coffee. They are wide awake, on a caffeine high, but the alcohol (a drug!) is still doing its job as well. Not having enough sleep causes certain internal chemical issues that directly effect performance. Putting something on the dashboard to short circuit your ability to be notified by your body that you need to recharge those chemicals is not a *good* solution to anything. It would be more akin to using speed or a large pot of coffee, not adding safety equipment.

      --
      Freud might say that Intelligent Design is religion's ID.
    52. Re:Is this really the answer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I have never understood why MADD and the like insist on doing this kind of thing. Surely the undistorted statistics are scary enough.

      No the real statistics aren't scary at all. For men above the age of 25, there is little difference between 0.00 and 0.10 BAC. There are actually DECREASES in accident death rates at 0.02-0.06 BAC (again, men well above minimum drinking age). Other things not mentioned that are "alcohol related": drugs (prescription or otherwise); intoxicated passenger in on of the vehicles. The odds of getting killed by a drunk driver are very slim. Odds are likely greater YOU will cause an "alchol-related" fatality even if you are stone-cold sober.

    53. Re:Is this really the answer? by mpathetiq · · Score: 1

      Along with blues, I also have a problem with deep reds. I assume it's because our natural lenses don't have a high enough index of refraction at those wavelengths since they are so far from the green that we can see best.

    54. Re:Is this really the answer? by apt142 · · Score: 1

      In The Matrix, there is a minimal amount of blue. The directors thought blue was a happy color and since the Matrix is not supposed to be a happy place they tried a number of tricks to eliminate or minimize it.

      This would also explain why I nearly slept through the third one.

    55. Re:Is this really the answer? by QuantumRiff · · Score: 1

      Aah yes, the blue LED. Years ago, at a dot-Com I was working at, we got our first server rack (which was much nicer than setting the servers on tables in the office) and a KVM. The KVM had a huge, glaringly bright blue LED on it. When we finished racking everything up that night, we decided on a whim to lock the rack up. The next morning, the software developers that were in that room called and woke me up, needing the keys to get into the rack. I asked them what they needed, and I could probably do it from home and go back to sleep.. After a bit of dodging the question, they just wanted to see what the hell that light was.. It was intoxicating to them.. Like the siren's song.

      --

      What are we going to do tonight Brain?
    56. Re:Is this really the answer? by boris111 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I disagree. My car has all red illuminated dash. I bought a phone charger that has a bright blue led on the top. It decreased my night vision drastically especially on a rainy night. I've since put a piece of electric tape over the thing and problem solved.

    57. Re:Is this really the answer? by squallbsr · · Score: 1

      I think they have been sneaking these LEDs into newer cars, my 2004 Acura TL has a blue LED in the part of the console where the map light are, pointed at the shifter. I always thought it was just enough light to see where your cup of coffee was...

      --
      Sleep: A completely inadequate substitution for Caffeine.
    58. Re:Is this really the answer? by Hatta · · Score: 1

      Back when I was a Emergency responder the #1 cause in a crash was people not paying attention.

      The number of incredibly stupid people out there is increasing at an alarming rate.

      And whose fault is that?

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    59. Re:Is this really the answer? by fizzup · · Score: 1

      Time to bring up the "Sharpie solution". If a designer has used a bright LED inappropriately, then use a permanent marker to correct his error. Want to try it out, first? Put some transparent tape over it, and then use the marker.

    60. Re:Is this really the answer? by boris111 · · Score: 1

      As I said I put electric tape on it. Much more elegant solution I think.

    61. Re:Is this really the answer? by alxkit · · Score: 0

      ad a dash of paranoid schitzophrenia and every night for 5 long years you feel like universe is talking to you. good times.

    62. Re:Is this really the answer? by fumblebruschi · · Score: 1

      In the recent book "Tamerlane's Children", which is a study of contemporary Uzbekistan, the author reports that he was pulled over in Tashkent because a cop saw him wearing his seatbelt. The cop assumed he was drunk, and had buckled up because he was driving drunk -- "why else would anyone wear a seatbelt?"

    63. Re:Is this really the answer? by Hatta · · Score: 1

      Well there's another side to this. Quite often I'm sitting in the passing lane, going a good 5-8 mph faster than the traffic in the right lane, and some jackass wanting to go 20mph over the speed limit rides my ass. I'll get over if there's time and room, but there's no way in hell I'm slowing down to get in the right lane so someone can get around me. I'm using the passing lane for passing, and if I'm not passing fast enough, tough.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    64. Re:Is this really the answer? by webwidejosh · · Score: 1

      Ah, but is there any study to compare a drunk driver to a different, sober driver? I'd be interested and totally willing to be a drunk driver on a closed course and compare to multiple sober drivers.

      Would they dare take the licenses of sober drivers who were worse than some drunk drivers? Nah, probably not!

    65. Re:Is this really the answer? by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      We "accept" the dangers created by the stupidity of those around us because government heavily repress our primal responses.

      Government, and social pressures, and...

      Wait a second, isn't this horribly offtopic? Not all dangers on the road are created by stupidity. Even if there was no one else around, no weather conditions, perfectly clear road, etc, you're still quite literally taking your life into your hands. The faster you're going, the less of a mistake (or deliberate twitch of the wheel, if you're feeling suicidal) is required to end your life.

      Certainly, it'd still be a lot safer without these other people, but I don't think that was the point.

      I'm digging, digging, digging and not finding this "acceptance" whereof you speak within myself.

      It's caused by you actually driving, rather than walking, biking, flying, grabbing a train, etc.

      Not that I expect you to stop driving. I'm just pointing out that you don't actually have a need to drive. Therefore, you're making a choice, consciously or unconsciously, to drive or not to drive. If you choose to drive, knowing the roads are going to be dangerous -- whether caused by idiots or not -- you still chose to take that risk, rather than avoid it. And you probably chose it for the convenience it would bring.

      It's a different context than what you dug up -- certainly, we shouldn't passively accept that other people will be assholes on the road. In fact, when I find people tailgating me, I like to hit the brakes. Either they actually do slam into me, in which case, it's their fault -- I can claim to have seen a deer or something -- or it at least demonstrates to them the danger of being too close, especially being too close to me. Either way, they're off my ass.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    66. Re:Is this really the answer? by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 1

      Or, to flip these around:

      • I can't take safe, cheap, and convenient mass transit to work, but instead must own and maintain my own vehicle, pay for insurance, and drive it myself. No napping or catching up on reading on the way to work. Not to mention my greatly increased risk of dying on my commute.
      • Rather than keeping development in well-maintained cities, we let suburbs and exurbs spraw, eliminating forest and farmland, while we let the cities rot.
      • Rather than having a small market close by where I can purchase fresh food frequently, I have to plan a trip to a centralized mega-mart and load up on less healthful prepared and frozen food.
      • Resources are spend building roads instead of convenient and efficient passenger rail service. (Half a day to go 60 miles? WTF? It's only a couple hours from Baltimore to New York City by train - are you waiting half a day for a connection somewhere?)

      I spent three months in Japan last year and didn't miss not having a car, because they've done rail service right (the shinkansen is the only truly civilized way to travel), and they've made their cities bicycle and pedestrian friendly.

      You don't have to want to give up your car completely to realize that planning our civilization around car ownership and frequent use is a bad idea.

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
    67. Re:Is this really the answer? by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      However if he's really coming up at 20 MPH faster and you have more than 1-2 car lengths before the car you're actually 'passing' you have more than enough time to get over and get back and still not disrupt your driving. OR you could at least tap the accelerator to pass and then let back off (and let cruise control take back over).

      It's how it works in other countries plus you're not being a dick just because you can.

    68. Re:Is this really the answer? by sootman · · Score: 1

      Reminds me of that story a while back where they found out that keyboard indicators for caps/num/scroll lock were bright enough to semaphore a message out of a server room and down the hall.

      I think you mean Morse. Unless the keyboard had little flags sticking out of it.

      --
      Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
    69. Re:Is this really the answer? by nerdup · · Score: 1
      All of your points boil down to 'it's more convenient to have a car'. Well, great, nobody disputes this. But a lot of people are coming to realize that we are willing to put up with a certain amount of inconvenience if it means lowering pollution and reducing our cultural lust for oil.

      - I don't have to live within walking distance of my job (inside Baltimore City) with 1000 people all trying to squeeze into the same building (due to lack of living space/overpopulation).

      Nice hyperbole. Anyway, you can live outside of the city center without owning a car. I live way outside of Vancouver, but I work downtown. I take transit. It actually takes me *less* time to get to work than people who drive the same distance, because of traffic and parking. I can read a book or play Advance Wars DS while I ride. I don't pay for fuel, insurance, maintenance, or for a parking space that costs as much per month as a small apartment. And I don't live in a Dickensian blockhouse with 1000 other people; I live in a nice, large apartment, in a quiet building, in a wooded suburb.

      - Instead we can spread out to the countryside and find plenty of room to breathe & live like human beings instead of ants (crawling on top of one another).

      See above.

      - Instead of having to walk to the local market every day, I can buy a whole month's worth of food in a single trip, thanks to my car. That saves time and lets me pursue other hobbies.

      There are a lot of places in the world where their cuisine and culture are based around buying fresh food and cooking it themselves. I know this is a foreign concept to a lot of people, but there are advantages to eating food you prepare from fresh ingredients rather than preprocessed and/or frozen food.

      That aside, I'm still able to go grocery shopping without owning a car. Shop locally, and walk more. It won't kill you.

      - On weekends I can go visit my parents or friends... something which would be impossible w/o a car. (There's train service, but it takes half a day to travel just 60 miles. The train is inconvenient.)

      There are some times when having a car (or access to a car) is more or less necessary for what we want to do. I'm involved in the local astronomy club, and I have a large reflector telescope that I like to haul out to the dark-sky sites near where I live. Since I don't own a car and have no intention of owning a car, I joined a car co-op. It lets me do the things I need a car for (moving, picking up furniture, taking the cats to the vet, astronomy) without having to actually buy one.

      Vehicles aren't inherently evil. There are lots of good reasons for using one. But don't pretend you *need* a car.
    70. Re:Is this really the answer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Problem is, the Ministry of Truth has been lying about this for decades. If anyone involved in an accident, including passengers, has any blood alcohol content whatsoever they call the whole incident 'alcohol related'. I don't drink and drive, and I don't believe the government either. Both activities show very poor judgment.

    71. Re:Is this really the answer? by Reziac · · Score: 1

      I have the same problem with "black lights" -- fuzzes the hell out of everything (and are painfully BRIGHT to my eyes -- apparently I see further into UV than normal).

      As to blue LEDs, in my experience blue lights tend to drag your attention AWAY from the road, as the eyes/brain never quite get used to them.

      My truck's high-beam indicator was the very first blue light I ever saw inside a vehicle, and I had to stop and tape over the damned thing the very first time I drove it at night ... had been going a couple hours but it never stopped bothering my eyes, not to mention the negative impact on my night vision (which is normally VERY good).

      At any rate... yeah, maybe more blue light in your vehicle will keep you awake better, but the tradeoff is reduced attention on the road and reduced night vision. Explain to me how this is progress??

      Better would be a return to lifestyles that allow us a good 8-9 hours of sleep every night! with the side-benefit that you'd no longer have to squeeze your morning toilet into your drive time.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    72. Re:Is this really the answer? by Reziac · · Score: 1

      Consider too that at night the percentage of trucks on the road is higher, since long-haul truckers do a lot more night-driving than average folks.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    73. Re:Is this really the answer? by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      So what you're saying is that when Alice is sober, her chance of an accident is X, amd when Bob is sober, his chance of an accident is Y=2X, then when Alice is drunk, her chance is X'>X, then when bob is drunk, his chance of an accident is Y'=2X'?

    74. Re:Is this really the answer? by atamido · · Score: 1

      Every driver safety course I've ever taken shows a video where they take a bunch of regular people and have them run through a closed course. Then they give them have their selection of a few drinks. They interview them to ask them how well they think they will do and essentially everyone says they could drive about as well. Once on the course, however, they do absolutely terrible, knocking down a significant number of cones. They showed the video to the people of their before and after through the course, and all of them expressed surprise at how badly they had done.

      The sample size was only about 10 people, but I think it's safe to say that generally people aren't nearly as good at driving after a few drinks as they think they are.

    75. Re:Is this really the answer? by webwidejosh · · Score: 1

      But were they compared to others, or to themselves. I'm quite certain I'm not able to drive as good when I'm drunk, however I live in Charlotte and I'm sure many people are able to drive drunk as good as many of the sober drivers I see.

    76. Re:Is this really the answer? by Raineer · · Score: 1

      This just in - Most traffic accidents are caused by cars with four wheels.

    77. Re:Is this really the answer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      antilock brakes

      It wouldn't matter if we removed them, they don't reduce accidents. The belief is this is because people become over confident because of them. The rest you list don't seem to have that problem.

    78. Re:Is this really the answer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      anyone remember Deathtrack from the bad old DOS days? loved that game

      Yes! Best. Driving. Game. Ever. I particularlly enjoyed the bumper-spikes and the shady dealer guy who offered cash for knocking out a specific player. ahhh.. good memories.

    79. Re:Is this really the answer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      great sig

    80. Re:Is this really the answer? by bskin · · Score: 1

      Of course, this would probably be a biased sample, since if a drunk driver makes it home without incident, there would be no record that they were drunk.

      --
      hot foreign sheep.
    81. Re:Is this really the answer? by ShatteredArm · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And as for drivers with those ultra-blue blinding lights, I want to build an auto-tracking fully automatic BB gun (everyone knows driving is dangerous -- anyone remember Deathtrack from the bad old DOS days? loved that game).
      Gah! I hate those blasted bright headlights! Here's a tip for you: If the car in front of you actually casts a shadow when its own headlights are on, your headlights may be too bright. These should be illegal--they're a complete safety hazard.
    82. Re:Is this really the answer? by kurzweilfreak · · Score: 1

      This would also explain why I nearly slept through the third one.

      Unfortunately, there are probably better explanations. And I say this as someone who loved the first one. This trilogy could have been so much better.

      --

      kurzweil_freak

      5th Kyu Genbukan Ninpo/KJJR student

      Be the darkness that allows the light to shine.

    83. Re:Is this really the answer? by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 1

      I live way outside of Vancouver, but I work downtown. I take transit....Shop locally, and walk more. It won't kill you

      But the problem with the car culture is that it's strangled mass transit and local shops.

      I live just outside Baltimore (as, apparently, does the grandparent poster). In this region we have one light rail line, running north-south through the city. We have one subway line, running north-south from the suburbs to the city center. We have buses - which have recently been severely cut back, which would take me an hour to get where I can drive in 20 minutes. There's an "express" bus that might be useful to me - if it ran more than four times a day.

      So, anyone who has any means, scrapes together the money to get a car. Which means that only the poorest people ride the bus, which makes it less attractive and makes upkeep and expansion less of a priority for local government, which means that only the poorest people ride the bus...you see where that's going.

      And since "everyone who matters has a car", zoning and development are planned around this. There are few small markets - you have to go to a supermarket to shop, or pay massively inflated prices at corner stores or convenience shops. It's the same trend that's given us Wal*Mart - don't shop locally, drive to the central shop.

      We have to improve mass transit to change the car culture; changing the car culture will lead us to different development practices, which will lead us to increased utility for mass transit.

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
    84. Re:Is this really the answer? by Seraphim_72 · · Score: 1

      Man, if I ever became the overlord at the DMV, things would be different.
      I for one, would welcome epine as our rocket launcher bearing DMV Overlord!

      Sorry, had to.

      Sera
      --
      Slashdot, where armchair scientists get shouted down and armchair theologians get modded up.
    85. Re:Is this really the answer? by Hatta · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I always have at least 2 car lengths between me and the car in front of me. Always. 2 seconds is a minimum for safe driving, at highway speeds that's a lot more than 2 car lengths.

      And if I'm already going 10mph over the speed limit, I'm not going any faster just so you can get by. The cop around the bend doesn't care why I'm going 25 over, he's just happy to write the ticket.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    86. Re:Is this really the answer? by MarkCollette · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure how drunk you mean, but that's blatantly false. Ignore the driving aspect for a moment, and consider when one is drinking in a bar. As I drink more, I know to compensate for my inebriated state. If I'm going down stairs, I'll probably go slower and use the hand rail. Looking at a girl, I'll double-assess how pretty she may look. When telling raucous jokes, I'll give it a second thought, in case I'm saying something I shouldn't. These are all conscious steps that I tend to do less when sober. To say that "The drunk is not in control of anything." is just ludicrous. Perhaps it holds true for you.

    87. Re:Is this really the answer? by vux984 · · Score: 1

      Nice hyperbole. Anyway, you can live outside of the city center without owning a car. I live way outside of Vancouver, but I work downtown. I take transit. It actually takes me *less* time to get to work than people who drive the same distance, because of traffic and parking. I can read a book or play Advance Wars DS while I ride. I don't pay for fuel, insurance, maintenance, or for a parking space that costs as much per month as a small apartment. And I don't live in a Dickensian blockhouse with 1000 other people; I live in a nice, large apartment, in a quiet building, in a wooded suburb.

      You probably shouldn't have outed yourself as a vancouverite.

      Your description of transit here is atypical. I've tried transit...here's my rush hour commute home: standing room only on over crowded buses to an over crowed sky-train station, and at the other end, another bus and then a transfer to another bus. It doesn't save me any time, its not relaxing. I can sometimes read a book on the train if less busy than normal, but the buses and roads are rough and I get nauseous. I often wait up to 20 minutes for my final connection, outside, in a city that sees more rain than sun. Getting to work is about the same, in reverse, of course.

      I can actually save a small amount of time and aggravation by driving to the sky train station, but I'd actually have to drive 20 minutes in the opposite direction from where I work to reach a sky-train station with a park-and-ride lot. Still it knocks 10 minutes and some aggravation off the commute... but then I'd have to insure my car for 'to and from work' again plus pay for gas for that part of the trip, and of course pay $300/year for parking.

      I'm sure Vancouver is great for some people, e.g. if you live/work within walking distance of the skytrain or west coast express terminals, or you are commuting to the downtown core. Most of us don't. Those systems don't even reach into the cities of Richmond, Delta or North Vancouver or West Vancouver. Hell they don't even reach into the south end of Vancouver or Burnaby. Skytrain has what? one terminal in the north corner of Surrey, a city spanning 120 square miles, and nothing in Langley or beyond.

      Vancouver's transit system SUCKS. The one in Calgary on the other hand is gold by comparison. Even Toronto's transit and go-train system is superior.

    88. Re:Is this really the answer? by Chris+Burkhardt · · Score: 1

      Your "moron" makes a good point. If something is legislated and described as a speed limit, then a car traveling at said limit should not, under ordinary circumstances, be slowing anybody down.

      > There's no monopoly on stupid, that's for sure.

      But it's the legislators who pass unheeded and unenforced laws, your law enforcement friends who would ticket the one law-abiding motorist, and all the I-need-to-be-first-in-an-endless-queue left-laners who are sharing the market on stupid. Not the guy who interprets "limit" in the ordinary English sense of the word.

      If speeding is truly dangerous or otherwise detrimental, and we believe it's up to the state to put an end to it, then speed limits should be enforced and your "moron" is absolutely in the right. If exceeding current speed limits is not dangerous, or we believe it is not the state's duty to prevent it, then the laws should be changed or removed... and this would become a non-issue.

      Of course, given the current state of traffic laws, it's probably best just to acknowledge that speed limits are enforced very loosely and strive to maintain the flow of traffic. Even if that means sticking to the right while driving at the maximum speed limit so that faster vehicles can pass you without slowing down or changing lanes. The less acceleration on the roads, the safer they are.

      --
      "And there be unix which have made themselves unix for the kingdom of heaven's sake." - Matt. 19:12
    89. Re:Is this really the answer? by The+End+Of+Days · · Score: 1

      you're not being a dick just because you can. But teaching invaluable lessons to the other drivers on the road is half the pleasure of driving. That's why I do things like pull in front of anyone passing me on the right, and coming to a dead stop in the middle of intersections to ensure that other drives also come to a full stop before pulling through.
    90. Re:Is this really the answer? by Zorbane · · Score: 2, Funny

      The Universe never talked to me...I am not sure if it was mad at me or what

      I know it was there though, I could hear it breathing.

    91. Re:Is this really the answer? by xaxa · · Score: 1

      Here are the advantages of living in, say, London (probably applies to New York too)

      - Several million people live within 10 minutes walk of a subway/train station. Trains are frequent, every 2-3 minutes in peak times and every 5-10 minutes for most of the rest of the day.
      I live three minutes walk from a station, but my rent is slightly higher because of it

      - Almost everyone lives within 5 minutes walk of a bus stop.
      Three minutes for me, or 5 minutes for a different one in the opposite direction

      - Except for the two financial districts (The City and Canary Wharf), most offices are spread out through much of the city, and within 5 minutes walk of a station. The same for large shops.

      - There's lots of parks, and if you need real countryside you take the train in the other direction.
      Maybe 10 minutes walk for me

      - You can buy fresh food every day (or every few days, whatever), from a shop within 10 minutes walk of where you live. It's easy enough to pick food up on the way back from work, if you want to. If I had a large family, I'd get bulky or heavy items (juice, toilet paper, etc) delivered every so often, if it was too much to carry.
      For me, there's a small shop (open really late) by the station, or two supermarkets and lots of other shops 5 minutes walk away

      - On weekends/evenings I can visit anyone in this city (that's over 1/10th of the population of the UK) very easily, or anyone further afield if they're willing to travel to their nearest place with a station (depending where they live, this might be a village of 2000, or a town of 20000). It takes about an hour to travel about 100 miles north, or about two hours to travel to Brussels.
      E.g. including getting to the main railway station, I can be at my parents house 105 miles away in about two hours. 45 minutes of that is getting across London, and would be about the same time (or more) in a car

      - Before I was old enough to drive, I could still travel wherever I wanted to.
      Buses are free for under 16s, or kids at school.

      - When I'm too old to drive, I can still travel wherever I want to. It'll be free.

      If I need a car, I can hire one from a scheme (except I'd need to learn to drive first. I'm 22).

      Ask for better mass transit. A study found that spending $1billion on mass transit in the US would create more jobs than spending the same amount on defence, education, construction or a few other things.

    92. Re:Is this really the answer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are some areas, such as New Jersey, that actually have laws on the books requiring you to use the rightmost free lane on the roadway. Failure to do so is reason for a primary stop and people are routinely ticketed for failing to do this. Many other states (and regions) do not have such legislation and have only the "Slower Traffic Keep Right" concept, but some areas have enacted the stricter requirement.

      Agreeing with your second point 100%, traffic flow is subjective and someone like this would regularly be pulled over for creating a hazard on the road. There have been situations where a single driver going below the posted speed limit, while the surrounding traffic is moving at 10-15 over, has been pulled over for being hazardous. Driving is NOT a blanket-response activity and the morons who drive as though it were are the ones that cause accidents.

      The bottom line is if someone else is doing something stupid, it's generally safer for them to be in front of you rather than behind. The one buffer area around your vehicle you directly have control over is the one in front of you.

    93. Re:Is this really the answer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First off, your comment deems that you have never driven a 18-wheeler I don't understand, does that mean he isn't allowed to worry about their well-being and safety?
    94. Re:Is this really the answer? by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Who's fault is that?

      Corn syrup, and the Puritans are where the blame lies.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    95. Re:Is this really the answer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, but who's the bigger fool - the foolish drunk-driver or the fool who follows him?

    96. Re:Is this really the answer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "If I'm going down stairs, I'll probably go slower and use the hand rail."

      So if you're driving a car, you'll probably go slower and hold up traffic behind you?

      Sometimes, you don't have much reaction time when you're sober and driving. Drinking just makes things worse.

    97. Re:Is this really the answer? by toddestan · · Score: 1

      If I see someone coming up on me faster when I'm passing people, I'll make an effort to get over when I can and let them by. But if they insist on being a dick by riding my bumper and flashing their lights until I can get over, then I'll just stay in the left lane and let them stew a while.

    98. Re:Is this really the answer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      small correction: DLMO stands for Dim-Light Melatonin Onset (not Offset).

      Otherwise: lots of correct and interesting info!

      Many experts advise using an amber-colored night light for midnight trips to the bathroom or the 2 a.m. infant feeding, because exposure to blue or white light reduces the level of melatonin in the blood. This CAN cause sleep disturbance. It WON'T keep you awake nor stop micro-sleeps.

    99. Re:Is this really the answer? by ToyKeeper · · Score: 1
      I agree, getting enough sleep is a much better solution than blue lights. There are several reasons why:
      • Getting enough sleep is healthy, in general.
      • Shining light into your eyes at night kills your night vision.
      • Strong blue lights can cause macular degeneration, which is almost as bad as full blindness.
      Some background info is at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macular_degeneration and http://www.mdsupport.org/library/hazard.html.
    100. Re:Is this really the answer? by ToyKeeper · · Score: 1

      Thanks for all the info. I hadn't considered body temperature as a factor in controlling sleep cycles. Now I have another variable to experiment with, and along with it, a bit more hope.

      It would be nicer to simply sleep when it feels natural, but this world of daytime people makes "free running" incredibly inconvenient or infeasible.

    101. Re:Is this really the answer? by MarkCollette · · Score: 1

      Most of the time, when people's capabilities are compromised, either from alcohol or fatigue, it tends to be night time, when there's already significantly less traffic. So, I'm not sure that holding up traffic is much of a concern.

      I agree that there's an incremental degeneration of capability. In fact, I hope that most people believe this. What was ludicrous, was the great-grand-parent's assertion that a drunk driver is not in control at all. If that were the case then there would be pile-ups just two blocks from the bars...

    102. Re:Is this really the answer? by fractoid · · Score: 1

      I don't see how I'm using the wrong word. They installed a greek on the server ('trojan' is a misnomer too, and it bugs me :P ) and it manipulated flags to send a message...

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    103. Re:Is this really the answer? by fractoid · · Score: 1

      Actually I meant 40:97 bits 0-3. ;)

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    104. Re:Is this really the answer? by vegiVamp · · Score: 0

      Not quite as specifically calculated, but yes, that's the idea.

      --
      What a depressingly stupid machine.
    105. Re:Is this really the answer? by donstenk72 · · Score: 1

      In Italy it is hard enough to manoeuvre a half ton Fiat in the best of circumstances. Never mind TWO tonnes of steel when drunk!

      You insensitive clod!

    106. Re:Is this really the answer? by verdant+blaise · · Score: 1
      I have also been attempting to read up on sleep phase issues (after not receiving much help from medical professionals).

      Can you suggest any good sources for further reading? Sites, books etc?

      I do have a (white light) lamp-alarm clock which while probably not that successful in helping me wake up in the morning (snake oil!) I will say that waking up to a gentle 'sunrise' of gradually increasing light intensity is better than a jarring bright light grasped in the dark on a winter morning.

      If you follow a traditional sleep-wake cycle then you would expect that light that mimics natural sunlight would halt melatonin production and therefore prevent sleepiness. Why do they think it is this blue hue in particular that works or is most appropriate to the application? Either way, surely it will create glare for you and distract other drivers, irrespective of the colour.

    107. Re:Is this really the answer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Over 50% of these accidents are caused by alcohol impaired drivers."

      Be extremely careful to check out the source of such statements. People get very sloppy (or is it just "concise"?) when making such statements. Thanks to the lunatics at MADD, who snookered congress into "suggesting" (under pain of loss of federal highway funds), we now have the insane 0.08% BAC standard for DUI. It used to be 0.10% before MADD started on "The New Prohibition", which they knew they could never again pass as a law. Instead, they use the threat of prosecution under an unreasonably low standard. A DUI in California, according to the state's own "Driver's Handbook", will set you back a minimum of %8500. And that's only if you plead guilty and don't involve a lawyer.Under their preferred style of reporting, "alcohol-related injuries or death" now include any event where ANY PARTICIPANT has any measurable BAC level. This includes a slightly tipsy pedestrian stepping out in front of your car. This includes a tipsy passenger in your back seat. Hell, they were there, therefore it's "related".

      These bogus numbers are then conflated in such a way as to imply that all "related" incidents are actually the diret result of "drunk driving".P.

    108. Re:Is this really the answer? by Zakabog · · Score: 1

      I can't take safe, cheap, and convenient mass transit to work, but instead must own and maintain my own vehicle, pay for insurance, and drive it myself. No napping or catching up on reading on the way to work. Not to mention my greatly increased risk of dying on my commute.

      You say that like you could nap or read (or sit) on a NY subway during rush hour. The only thing keeping people from driving to work is the huge amounts of rush hour traffic.

      Rather than keeping development in well-maintained cities, we let suburbs and exurbs spraw, eliminating forest and farmland, while we let the cities rot.

      America is really big. Really really big. There's plenty of forests and farmland (just go cross country, you'll see what I'm taking about.) Plus, have you read anything about history? Just take a look at the quality of living in NYC before the invention of the car. I'm not trying to say here that the car increased the quality of living, I'm trying to say the cities are far from rotting.

      Rather than having a small market close by where I can purchase fresh food frequently, I have to plan a trip to a centralized mega-mart and load up on less healthful prepared and frozen food.

      Small stores get food from the same places as the large mega-marts, most of the food at these places probably doesn't grow near you (especially if you live out west in one of the desert states) so it's all shipped in, usually in large trucks cause it's quicker and easier (you don't need train tracks going to every store.) Plus you can always grow your own fresh food if you want (or find a nearby farmers market that's in driving distance.)

      Resources are spend building roads instead of convenient and efficient passenger rail service. (Half a day to go 60 miles? WTF? It's only a couple hours from Baltimore to New York City by train - are you waiting half a day for a connection somewhere?)

      It takes about 4 hours to drive to Yosemite National Park, CA from San Francisco, CA. It took me 3 days by train and public transportation. I arrived via airplane, got to San Francisco pretty late and the train there stops running to certain stops at 10 (since so few people ride the train that late they don't need to go to all the stations), so I had to stay at a hotel the first night (cost me a $50 cab ride to find one too since they were all booked for some convention.) In the morning of the second day, I took the subway out to the suburbs to catch the amtrak train to some place further into the suburbs where the bus to Yosemite runs. I arrived at the bus stop at around 4PM, they don't run all the way to Yosemite at this time but they do stop at the Yosemite bug, so I ended up having to stay there (it's basically a hostel) for a night (did I mention I'm carrying 75lbs of supplies in two backpacks, most of it is food from NY cause food in Yosemite valley is pretty expensive.) The third day I finally arrived in Yosemite, and it ended up costing well over $200 (especially with the first day staying at a hotel in San Francisco.) With a car the trip would have taken 4 hours and cost no more than $40 of gas.

      P.S. my trip from NYC to Albany (where I currently live) takes about 6 hours. It's an hour and a half getting to Grand Central Station from Staten Island, then 30-40 minutes waiting for the next train and it's around 4 hours trip once I'm on the train. With a car it's

  5. Assumes you have a normal sleep cycle by vsage3 · · Score: 2, Funny

    For me, when I start to see the blue light is when I normally GO to sleep.

    1. Re:Assumes you have a normal sleep cycle by argiedot · · Score: 1

      Then you'll love my HP Laptop, the wireless LED is bright blue and on the front, facing you if you're facing the screen, and now I know why I stay awake so late into the night.

    2. Re:Assumes you have a normal sleep cycle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For me, when I start to see the blue light, I normally hear "Clear! Nurse, Again!" soon after. Btw, am I supposed to see white or blue? The voice directing me to follow never really says.

  6. Soft red... by Bananatree3 · · Score: 1

    I have found that soft red light used to illuminate my dash certainly doesn't keep me awake. Maybe a brilliant electric blue would at least keep me more awake. Whether it "simulates morning" or if it's simply brighter/more intense, as long as it works is all that I care about.

    1. Re:Soft red... by Gromius · · Score: 5, Funny

      Same here, red lights dont keep me awake, neither do blue lights on their own. However I've always found that turning on a flashing red and blue light behind me will instantly make me awake and fully alert,no matter what. The effect is amazing :)

    2. Re:Soft red... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's actually a good reason for this, and i'm amazed I'm the first to state it...

      Red lights encompass the wavelength spectrum that is the least disruptive to your eyes when you're looking around in the dark. The radio in my car is set to eminate a soft red precisely because it won't be a constant disruption to my driving. I can't wait to see what will happen when blue (the worst offender in the light spectrum) is introduced to the front peripheral vision while driving. (hint: it's a little like when you pass a car with HID's set so they shine right in your eyes, but it happens constantly when you're driving)

  7. bright light by 1u3hr · · Score: 1

    I know bright light can certainly do that. I was working as an extra on a movie night shoot. They had banks of thousand Watt lights all over. I was up till dawn but never felt drowsy at all.

  8. Volkswagen gauges are this exact color by Buran · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Interesting. VW uses this wavelength for its gauge lighting in most of its cars. I always thought it was for looks (as the red/blue combo does look pretty good). Perhaps the blue was chosen to help enhance nighttime alertness as well.

    1. Re:Volkswagen gauges are this exact color by Trogre · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Possibly, though I would still think it a poor choice for lighting instruments. Blue does not focus on the retina very well (requiring more time with eyes off the road to read), and IIRC stimulates rod cells in the eye, reducing night vision.

      --
      "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
    2. Re:Volkswagen gauges are this exact color by Wordplay · · Score: 1, Interesting

      My Hyundai uses the same lighting as VW. I've not noticed a difference, but I turn it down to near-minimum to keep glare low at night. There's also the fact that I'm used to sleeping in the light of blue LEDs--my clock radio uses them, and my computer setup in the bedroom is rife with peripherals that glow blue since the color became trendy amongst the gamer/mod set.

      I also don't have a good concept of how bright these LEDs need to be to be effective. TFA says he's testing 2.5, 5, and 7.5 lux lights. Wiki has 1 lux as "moonlight at high altitude at tropical latitudes" and 10 lux as "Candle at the distance of [1 ft]," but I don't know if the scale is linear or otherwise (and I'm sure wavelength affects perceived brightness as well).

      I do believe that whatever the intentions were (and I suspect style) they'll certainly crow about the benefits if this bears out. :)

    3. Re:Volkswagen gauges are this exact color by zazzel · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I don't know if VW used the fact for their marketing elsewhere, but I remember hearing exactly this reason from their German marketing dept. when the blue light was first introduced somewhere in 1997.

    4. Re:Volkswagen gauges are this exact color by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I read in a leading electronics magazine last year that the Blue light of a regular Blue LED damages the eye over a period of time. The article advised from using blue LEDs where the user can look at it in close range (few inches). Regarding the VW dials, I am amazed by companies that use blue as a backlight (cellphones, mp3, dials) because it makes so hard to read the text with that background. Absolutely poor visibility. They do it only because Blue became fashionable after the Blue LED became commonly available. Will go away soon.

    5. Re:Volkswagen gauges are this exact color by nautilu · · Score: 1

      I heard it too in Israel when it first introduced

    6. Re:Volkswagen gauges are this exact color by Bloke+down+the+pub · · Score: 1

      the Blue light of a regular Blue LED damages the eye over a period of time
      Insert joke about windows crashing here -->
      --
      It's true I tell you, feller at work's next door neighbour read it in the paper.
    7. Re:Volkswagen gauges are this exact color by dreamchaser · · Score: 1

      I was thinking the same thing. I've always prefered the blue used in VW's to the red used in many other cars. I do a lot of night driving, so maybe my subconscious somehow knew and hence prefered the blue.

      Interesting.

    8. Re:Volkswagen gauges are this exact color by Glonoinha · · Score: 1

      Now that you mention it, K-Mart was doing this back in the '70s, something about a Blue Light that really wakes up the shoppers.

      --
      Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
    9. Re:Volkswagen gauges are this exact color by tzanger · · Score: 1

      I have a '99 Passat that uses this ridiculous blue light in the dash. It's difficult to focus on, and shifting between looking at the gauges and the road is FAR more difficult than my '99 Trans Sport, which uses red everywhere. Personally I don't like either; the orange/green lighting that my old Jeep had was best. It was very clear and easy to view at night.

    10. Re:Volkswagen gauges are this exact color by ElysianAudio · · Score: 1

      Actually, If I remember correctly, the A4 line of VW cars uses 430nm deep blue LEDs for back lighting in the instrument cluster. I don't know if it has helped keep me awake for long drives (740 miles, continuous no stops, 10 hours, one tank of diesel), but it is pretty. I had to look up the wavelength because it is difficult to match and the deep blue LEDs are somewhat more rare. The standard blue LED is at 470nm.

    11. Re:Volkswagen gauges are this exact color by cain · · Score: 1

      The background is blue. The foreground display, i.e. the important things, are bright red. Having the background be a "non-focusing" color may cause the eye to focus more quickly on the foreground. (But I'm just guessing.)

    12. Re:Volkswagen gauges are this exact color by 0racle · · Score: 1

      It looks very nice and is easy on the eye. I much prefer the blue/red scheme of my Jetta to the everything green that is in every other car I've driven.

      --
      "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
    13. Re:Volkswagen gauges are this exact color by Apocros · · Score: 1

      i agree, i love in the dashboard lighting of my jetta, and would gladly pay to have it transferred to a new car when i get one (probably won't be another jetta, i don't like the new styling).
       
      for me, the indigo blue (which i dim almost all the way) is far less obtrusive at night, so that i can focus on the road without distraction. the red serves to highlight the important info should i need to glance at the gages.
       
      i really would love to be able to get a new car (from another manufacturer) with the same dashboard lighting scheme. for me, it really is the best i've seen.
      --
      "onward!" cried the copper man, little knowing brass corrupts...
    14. Re:Volkswagen gauges are this exact color by Hatta · · Score: 1

      You're not kidding. Anyone who's played nethack can attest to the danger of a blue floating eye on a black terminal background.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    15. Re:Volkswagen gauges are this exact color by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and IIRC stimulates rod cells in the eye, reducing night vision.


      I don't think so. US Military flashlights often come with a red filter, and a blue filter. My guess would be the farther away from the peak in the spectrum of the sun you get, the less disruptive the light is to your night vision. Thus, red and blue.


      Fake Edit: I just found some material that doesn't directly dispute what I just said, but makes it less likely. The sun seems to peak in the blue range of the visible wavelength. Google sun spectrum if you want to see what I saw.


      Too lazy to log in.

    16. Re:Volkswagen gauges are this exact color by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Not to be elitest, but VW puts blue gauges in their VW brand cars, which are generally marketed toward the teen and twentysomething age groups, where blue lights are teh kewl. In their Audi brands, there's not a blue light to be seen, and they're marketed toward the 30-50 year old professionals.


      It would be a whole lot cheaper for VW just to use the same blue in both cars. There are reasons they don't (namley it looks cheap and it's hard as hell on the eyes at night).


      Car lights should either be that dull green color or red. Look at the military, which likely has a lock on doing things at night that require precision and night vision. What color do they use? Red.

    17. Re:Volkswagen gauges are this exact color by toddestan · · Score: 1

      All the ones I have seen have all the markings and numbers blue, with only the needle being red. I guess if you were good you could gauge your speed by looking at the angle of the needle, but that seems to be a lousy solution overall.

    18. Re:Volkswagen gauges are this exact color by lappy512 · · Score: 1

      Acura does this too - My Acura TSX also has an overhead LED (near the center overhead reading light) which is blue. It's dim enough that it's not annoying, but it makes a cool accent when you put your hand on top of the shift knob.

      I think that Bimmers do this too - except that they have red lights.

    19. Re:Volkswagen gauges are this exact color by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      exactly. blue lights should NOT NOT NOT be used where people need night vision.

  9. Oh yes by katterjohn · · Score: 2, Funny

    "blue light at around 450nm wavelength can fool them into thinking its morning and keep us awake"

    I need to install one of these on top of my monitor!

  10. Reducing Night Vision by TheMiddleRoad · · Score: 1

    Is the light going to reduce night vision? Will we end up with aware drivers seeing less? Perhaps if we knew how bright the light had to be, we could tell.

    1. Re:Reducing Night Vision by steveo777 · · Score: 1
      My dad's had a VW Jetta for a few years now and when I've driven it I've never really run into the nightvision problem. I generally put the lighting in a vehicle on the lowest visible setting, however, because of this very issue. I can't stand losing my night vision. I used to do a LOT of driving on rural roads and without that night vision you can miss a lot of critters. I have also been guilty of falling asleep at the wheel, and never experienced that feeling in his car. I'd done a 14 hour day with six hours of driving with no problems at all, so maybe the blue light works. And I also don't recall having any issues with night vision (again, interior lights at lowest possible setting anyways).

      I drive a vehicle with HID headlights now, and they've got that blue tinge to them, I wonder if they're not doing the trick because I've never nodded in this car.

      --
      This sig isn't original enough, it's time to come up with something witty...
  11. hmmm... by William+Robinson · · Score: 1

    blue light at around 450nm wavelength can fool them into thinking its morning and keep us awake

    I need to try this in the cubicles of developers over there.

  12. Jokes?? by AmigaHeretic · · Score: 5, Funny

    Q: How many New Yorkers does it take to screw in a "blue" light bulb?

    A: None 'o yo' fuckin' business!

    Q: How many software people does it take to screw in a "blue" light bulb?

    A: None. That's a hardware problem.

    Q: How many televangelists does it take to screw in a "blue" light bulb?

    A: None. Televangelists screw in motels.

    Q: How many straight San Franciscans does it take to screw in a "blue" light bulb?

    A: Both of them.

  13. A third of accidents by lachlan76 · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Is it really unusual for a third of accidents to happen at night? Sounds about the proportion of the day that's spent in darkness.

    1. Re:A third of accidents by DrEldarion · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Considering that vastly less people are on the road at night, it's disproportionate.

    2. Re:A third of accidents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but not a third of total driving time.

    3. Re:A third of accidents by DracusMage · · Score: 1

      But what percentage of all driving is done at night? I would assume substantially less than during the day. I only about 10% of my driving is in the dark, so if I am representative (extrapolation from one case is fun), that's a significantly more dangerous section of time.

      --
      "Ranger Brad, I'm a scientist, I don't believe in anything." - Dr. Roger Fleming
    4. Re:A third of accidents by SeaFox · · Score: 1

      Go to an entertainment district of a major city on a Summer Friday night, and you will find as many if not more cars in it that in the day. Add to that people are much more likely to be drinking and driving...

    5. Re:A third of accidents by DKlineburg · · Score: 1

      Have you ever driven in WA state? I swear there are just as many people on the major highways as during the day. Yes it peaks two times a day, but the average stays the same except for maybe 4 hours a day.

      --
      Memory is deceptive because it is colored by today's events. - Albert Einstein
    6. Re:A third of accidents by donscarletti · · Score: 1

      Go to an entertainment district of a major city on a Summer Friday night, and you will find as many if not more cars in it that in the day.
      Summer (1/4 of the year) * Friday (1/7 of the week) * night (1/2 of the day) = 1/56th of the year. Multiply that to the size of an entertainment district, which despite being called an "entertainment quarter" usually makes up a tiny fraction of a sprawling metropolis of dormitory suburbs and industrial areas. If this made up 1/3rd of all road use, I'd be very surprised.
      --
      When Argumentum ad Hominem falls short, try Argumentum ad Matrem
    7. Re:A third of accidents by anakha · · Score: 1

      Nearly 30% of fatal accidents involving large trucks at night TFA noted. (Reading TFA? Crazy I know) When I drive on highways and main arterial roads at night I notice a much higher proportion of trucks to cars than in the day time. I would think truck drivers, particularly those driving interstate, drive as much at night as they do in the day. They also didn't say what percentage of the fatalities were the fault of the truck drivers or other road users. Who is the finger being pointed at here?

  14. Doping by tsa · · Score: 2, Interesting

    That's like doping in sports: you don't realize you're destroying your body, and after prolonged use you end up in a wheelchair. I wouldn't be surprised to see the number of nightly accidents go up in the long run when the blue lights are introduced.

    --

    -- Cheers!

    1. Re:Doping by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Riiiiiight, 'cause everyone will start driving around all night just because of this.

  15. That must be it by Trogre · · Score: 1

    This must be why, in recent years, I have felt increasingly alert upon entering my server room.

    And here I was thinking all those PC, external hard drive, UPS and KVM (?!) makers were just being vindictive.

    --
    "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
  16. Another idea: by ChePibe · · Score: 3, Funny

    How soon until they can put this in textbooks? Now that would be handy...

    1. Re:Another idea: by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      I'd install one on the wife's forehead, but then I'd miss out on my power-nap after performing the ritual "how was your day" question.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
  17. Red+Blue by forgotten_my_nick · · Score: 5, Funny

    I find a flashing blue light in the rear view mirror certainly wakes me up.

    Seriously though, it would be better to just not drive when tired. Also wouldn't screwing around with your internal body clock mess you up more?

    1. Re:Red+Blue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've been screwing around with my internal clock for decades and I'm fine!

      Anyone know how to get blood stains out of carpet?

    2. Re:Red+Blue by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      A lot of us don't have seventy-five bucks for a hotel room. I know that doesn't sound like a lot of money, heck it's barely dinner for 2 - but seriously, there are people out there to whom it's a lot.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    3. Re:Red+Blue by drydirt · · Score: 1

      Seriously though, it would be better to just not drive when tired.

      Well, obviously. But unless we outlaw driving at night people are going to do it.

      I don't know if you've ever fallen asleep at the wheel. I did once, at the tail end of a trip from San Francisco to LA, and it's truly frightening (a cop actually saw and flashed a light at me, for which I'll always be thankful.) When you doze at the wheel it happens in an instant and you might not even realize you were that tired. I certainly didn't, and from other people's entirely anecdotal stories that's not at all unusual. It's really more like falling under hypnosis than drifing off in your bed.

      Also wouldn't screwing around with your internal body clock mess you up more?

      Maybe a little. But a bit of insomnia is worth getting home in one piece.

    4. Re:Red+Blue by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

      You've never slept in your car on a long trip? Those rest stops on highways are handy, at least for a half-hour catnap when you're feeling drowsy.

    5. Re:Red+Blue by forgotten_my_nick · · Score: 1

      You don't need to get a hotel room. If your tired even a 15 minute nap in your car (while it is stopped) would be enough to continue driving for a while.

      I've fallen asleep while driving. Thankfully at a red light while stationary. Prior to getting to that light I had the window open, music blaring and keep trying to keep myself aware that I should stay awake. Once I stopped at the lights I had relaxed a bit and fell asleep. Person behind me woke me up but after that I realised how easy it was to just switch off I haven't driven while tired since.

    6. Re:Red+Blue by MMC+Monster · · Score: 1

      What ever you do, don't use hot water. It may destroy the DNA evidence (unlikely), but it will set the stain, making it nearly impossible to get out before the police arrive.

      --
      Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
    7. Re:Red+Blue by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      Have you ever actually been to a highway rest stop? They're a good place to get murdered. Why don't I just tape $100 bills to my nipples and run naked through the ghetto?

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    8. Re:Red+Blue by lbgator · · Score: 1

      I have slept in rest stops at various times of the night and day along the I-10 corridor (US interstate that runs from West to East coast). It is actually really common. Do you hear the occasional story about people getting killed there? I personally don't recall any recent ones, but maybe you have heard otherwise. There have been a bunch of campus killings lately, do you think that makes college campuses unsafe? Just because you have heard a story on the news doesn't make something true in the general case.

    9. Re:Red+Blue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It seems that blue light in the mirror has amazing sobering powers too!

    10. Re:Red+Blue by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

      Where have you been driving? I've done quite a bit of cross country driving, and had quite pleasant experiences. Mind you, I haven't done as much such driving in the last 10 years: there may have been a change.

      Around New Jersey, they're pretty scary. But when you get out towards Illinois, or Denver, they're lifesavers after several hours of driving when you're on an overnight trip carrying time sensitive cargo. (Emergency repair equipment, a significant other who needs to be at their folk's house for the weekend, etc.)

  18. only blue light? by tancque · · Score: 1

    I use a special full spectrum light to keep me from going into involuntary hibernation in winter. It is really bright, especially in the morning, and not alway very pleasant. If only blue light is enough from 2.5 to 7 lux it might be a good alternative to prevent burning and tired eyes before the days begins. It makes you wonder what biological basis there is for blue light to set circadian rythm.

    --
    Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast!
  19. Really? Really?? by Rie+Beam · · Score: 1

    It's going to take more than a blinking LED to convince my body that I haven't worked a double-shift at 7-11.

  20. Blue LED's Ruin Your Night Vision! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Are you kidding? Every time I drive on a long trip I stew about the high beam light being bright blue. It ruins my night vision every time I accidentally look right at it. I keep thinking about taping a red lens over it. Well, maybe that irritation keeps me awake.

    1. Re:Blue LED's Ruin Your Night Vision! by aadvancedGIR · · Score: 1

      Putting a red lens over a blue light... Are you a member of the Kansas education board? Some black duct tape will do exactly the same job (blocking almost of the blue light going out but not magically changing it into red one) for next to nothing.

    2. Re:Blue LED's Ruin Your Night Vision! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The light is a filament bulb with a plastic 'blue' filter. I doubt its completely monochromatic after the filter. Some tiny bit of illumination will come through or failing that, bounce off the back side. That would be enough to let me know the high beam is on.

    3. Re:Blue LED's Ruin Your Night Vision! by toddestan · · Score: 1

      I think they do that on purpose, to remind you that your highbeams are also annoying everyone else on the road and so that you don't just leave them on all the time. Though it does suck if your in the middle of nowhere on a dark night, no other cars around but plenty of wildlife you need to watch out for. Atleast my older car uses a small incandescant with a blue lens (not very bright overall) so it's not nearly as obnoxious as a newer car with the blue LED.

  21. Wii Blue Light Can Keep Me Up by Sterrance · · Score: 1

    I can fall asleep with the sun out, the TV on, and the radio. But when the Wii starts flashing blue I just start looking and can't go to sleep. I always thought it was because I was a Nintendo Fanboy, but I guess the Blue Light has an effect.

  22. Our circadian rhythms just want to sleep by noidentity · · Score: 1

    People driving through the night are much more likely to cause accidents because our circadian rhythms just want to sleep -- blue light at around 450nm wavelength can fool them into thinking its morning and keep us awake.

    Who are these circadian rhythms, and why do they want to sleep? Also, if they sleep, can I still stay awake?

  23. Great, but what about chips in the windscreen by zakezuke · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm not going to discount the possible correlation between certain wavelengths and sensing it's daylight. But it sounds problematic to me. One blue LED has amazing illumination power, so not only will it likely affect your night vision but it will illuminate all the flaws in your windscreen, as well as enhance the reflection of your self.

    Those of us unfortunate enough to buy hardware with blue leds on it can share this fact, it's damned annoying.

    --
    There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
    1. Re:Great, but what about chips in the windscreen by jrumney · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Those of us unfortunate enough to buy hardware with blue leds on it can share this fact, it's damned annoying.

      Visitors often ask me why my near new A/V equipment is in much worse condition than the older stuff. They think the black insulation tape I've got plastered all over the front is holding it together. It's really just there to block the annoying blue lights from burning holes in my retina while I'm trying to watch TV.

    2. Re:Great, but what about chips in the windscreen by Blackknight · · Score: 1

      A soldering iron and some wick will fix that really quick, and it looks better than tape.

    3. Re:Great, but what about chips in the windscreen by Reziac · · Score: 1

      Same reason my truck has a chunk of duct tape stuck to the instrument panel... the highbeam indicator is blue, bright, annoying, and had to GO!!

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    4. Re:Great, but what about chips in the windscreen by zakezuke · · Score: 1

      They think the black insulation tape I've got plastered all over the front is holding it together. Silly me... I use a hole punch and make nice circles of black electrical tape. Others desolder, where I "imagine" one could use one of those paint marker pens and do a dab of an opaque paint.

      I have a Mad Dog power supply with an annoying blue LED, a cheepo dvd player, and i'm sure some other things.
      --
      There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
  24. what is 450 nm in computer color terms? by kennylogins · · Score: 0

    Make this your screen color and stare at it when you get up. I assume most of us here do. :)

  25. The only problem... by Zadaz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The only problem is that blue light ruins your night vision, which would conceivably cause more accidents.

    1. Re:The only problem... by sskagent · · Score: 1

      So we need to implement a red light to improve night vision, countering the blue light.

  26. Just go to sleep! by jjh37997 · · Score: 1

    If you're tired just find a motel and go to fucking sleep!

  27. Blue wavelengths = No night vision as well by spazmonkey · · Score: 5, Informative

    Blue wavelengths also have the nasty side effect of destroying night vision almost instantly, fooling the pupils to contract - likely for the very same reason it fools the rest of the body into thinking its daylight too.

    Not a desirable or safe side effect when making something specifically intended to be used for driving in the dark. It's why the military uses red lights in their vehicle cabins and cockpits.

    1. Re:Blue wavelengths = No night vision as well by oPless · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yes,
      I agree totally here! Furthermore, there's a worrying increase (on UK roads at least) headlamps with a *nasty* blue tint to them. I've no idea what they're called but they *really* screw with my eyes, mostly on BMWs and boy racers. Night vision gets all messed up and there's noticeable scarring (after image) - anyone know what the bulbs are?

      I've recently noticed a second set of headlight bulbs, loved by boy racers also - they're also really screwy with your eyes. They're yellow-ish, and if you've got one of these guys tailgating you, it almost looks like they're on fire - whats worse is they look as if they're flickering between high and low beam too.

      Both are annoying really annoying, but as someone who has corrected vision, I'd like to know what type of bulbs these are so I can have a chat to my optometrist....

    2. Re:Blue wavelengths = No night vision as well by bhtooefr · · Score: 3, Informative

      Well, there are HID bulbs, which, if they're OEM, should be more white than blue, and should be properly aimed.

      Then there's the aftermarket HID kits, which are often blue. And, there's the blue-coated bulbs, to make people think you've got HIDs when you don't.

    3. Re:Blue wavelengths = No night vision as well by dayjn · · Score: 1

      I'm annoyed with this too, I also think they are more distracting for oncoming drivers. I just found this about the glare: http://www.mvlc.info/glare.html However, they provide much better visibility and it is predicted that most/all cars will eventually have these headlights so best get used to them. At the moment they are more expensive so that's why luxury cars have them and others not. Boy racers who are modifying their lamps to look more blue might not be properly aligned or perhaps using systems that are too intense. Peace!

    4. Re:Blue wavelengths = No night vision as well by inviolet · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yes, I agree totally here! Furthermore, there's a worrying increase (on UK roads at least) headlamps with a *nasty* blue tint to them. I've no idea what they're called but they *really* screw with my eyes, mostly on BMWs and boy racers. Night vision gets all messed up and there's noticeable scarring (after image) - anyone know what the bulbs are?

      The nasty headlighteseseses, it burns!

      --
      FATMOUSE + YOU = FATMOUSE
    5. Re:Blue wavelengths = No night vision as well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The question is: Do the blue LEDs hurt your night vision significantly more than oncoming traffic lights are already?

      People with extra-bright lights piss me off. Yes, it's safer... For them and people behind them, but not for everybody else.

      What we really need is a polarization system or something where reflected light from your own headlights is visible but direct light from other cars is reduced.

    6. Re:Blue wavelengths = No night vision as well by toddestan · · Score: 1

      Most of the ricers aren't going to go to the expense of converting their Civics and Subarus to HID lights. Almost all of them are regular, extra bright halogen bulbs with some kind of blue coating on them to make them look like HID bulbs (which is all the typical ricer really cares about anyway). The fact that many of them tend to "flicker" between blue and yellow is a dead giveaway, as that's what happens when the blue coating starts to crack and peel, letting the yellowish halogen light through.

  28. Disappointment by qwer_tea · · Score: 1

    When I read the headline I thought they meant internal clocks in electronics... now that would be fun wouldn't it :P

  29. Another good alternative by Hojima · · Score: 0

    You could just play death-metal at full volume. It more than keeps me awake. In fact, every time I listen to DethKlok, I feel like head-butting an ox.

    1. Re:Another good alternative by triffid_98 · · Score: 1
      I concur. Loud music describing death, sex, religion and power-chords also keeps me fairly alert. If those things no longer keep me alert when my radio is set to 11, it is time for me to pull over and take a goddamn nap. Blue LEDs are not going to save me.

      Of course, with our lovely zero-tolerance laws (what, sleeping in your car instead of a tax generating residence???) that's illegal, just like everything else that doesn't generate tax revenue and/or threatens the first (government) and/or second estate(big business).

      Just try to remember that our current president would be a unelectable felon if today's laws were in place when he was young or nobody cared who his daddy was.

      You could just play death-metal at full volume. It more than keeps me awake. In fact, every time I listen to DethKlok, I feel like head-butting an ox.
    2. Re:Another good alternative by pandrijeczko · · Score: 0, Offtopic
      I didn't think a fifteen year-old acned teenage boy with no girlfriend, a very large Warhammer 40K orc army and a penchant for dressing in black would be allowed to drive a car.

      Or are you an atypical death-metal critique who is something of a connoisseur of bloke singers sounding like they're vomiting nails into a dustbin while the backing musicians are either racing to see who can get to the end of the song first or using slow, low frequency power chords to see who's bowels open up first?

      --
      Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
    3. Re:Another good alternative by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "(what, sleeping in your car instead of a tax generating residence???) that's illegal, just like everything else that doesn't generate tax revenue"

      Except you pay taxes on the car, pay for registration, and in some places pay for emissions control.

      Why is it so many stupid people like you are anti-government? It makes it much harder for those of us who aren't stupid to be taken seriously when stupid people like you are spreading your stupidity everywhere instead of letting the people who aren't stupid do the talking.

  30. Technology For Dickheads by pandrijeczko · · Score: 1, Flamebait
    Sorry for the title but I get annoyed with the constant announcements by these annoying little companies that they have made a wonderful breakthough in technology for all of us when, in reality, it's a few neanderthals amongst the entire human race who are too stupid to work out for themselves that the contents of a polystyrene cup might be hot or that when you're tired you probably shouldn't be behind the wheel of a car...

    Perhaps I should email that company with a question to see what response I get:

    "So if your blue light device is designed such that I no longer need to worry about driving when I'm really tired, does that mean that if I do fall asleep at the wheel, spin out of control and kill an innocent pedestrian, it will have been as a result of the failure of your device to do its job such that I can pass on all legal liabilities to you then?"

    --
    Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
    1. Re:Technology For Dickheads by the+grace+of+R'hllor · · Score: 1, Insightful

      My car turns on the lights automatically when it turns dark, or when I drive into a tunnel. A few people forget to do this. If for some reason ambient light in the tunnel is sufficient to not trigger those lights, yet still low enough to require them, *I* am responsible for the decrease in safety. That does not invalidate the feature; it's a convenience.

      The luxury model of this car (which I don't have) has Lane Departure Warning System. Checks the road markings. If you're crossing lanes on a highway without a turn signal enabled, it vibrates your chair in the appropriate direction. Likewise, if you drift into oncoming traffic, it's still your own fault.

      Not everything requires a three-page disclaimer, American.

    2. Re:Technology For Dickheads by pandrijeczko · · Score: 1, Troll
      My car turns on the lights automatically when it turns dark, or when I drive into a tunnel.

      I find the "darkness detection system" between my eyes and brain and my "switch the headlights on" system between my brain and hands works pretty well for entering a tunnel also.

      That does not invalidate the feature; it's a convenience.

      It invalidates the feature for me since I have no need for it. Neither is it a convenience because I have no need of it.

      The luxury model of this car (which I don't have) has Lane Departure Warning System.

      Good for you. And I bet sitting behind the wheel of your car makes you feel like an Airbus pilot with all those dials and blinking lights. But like I said, if it improves your driving experience then enjoy it - you've probably earnt it.

      If you're crossing lanes on a highway without a turn signal enabled, it vibrates your chair in the appropriate direction.

      Lovely. And I'm a good enough driver to start my blinkers manually when I change lanes. And you're vibrating chair now makes you feel like captain of the Space Shuttle. Again, we're both happy - please continue to enjoy your driving experience.

      Not everything requires a three-page disclaimer, American.

      Does the sarcasm, irony and general piss-taking humour not give you the clue? I'm British through and through, me ole' mucka.

      Off you go then, don't forget to write - and please continue to enjoy your driving experience, Captain Cosmos of the M25 Space Lanes.

      --
      Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
    3. Re:Technology For Dickheads by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      Neither is it a convenience because I have no need of it. You have absolutely no freaking clue as to what "convenience" means, do you?
    4. Re:Technology For Dickheads by pandrijeczko · · Score: 0, Troll
      I need to use a lawn mower to cut my grass every week. Because of that need, it is convenient to store it in the garage and therefore inconvenient to store it in the attic. (I won't use the proper British word "loft" because you pedantic Americans will have trouble understanding it.)

      However, if I get rid of the lawn, I no longer need the lawn mower. Therefore, whether I store it "conveniently" in the garage or "inconveniently" in the loft, or indeed sell it, is irrelevant because I no longer need it.

      It has nothing to do with the meaning of any word but the relationship between those words. If you don't like what I'm saying, then come at me with a convincing argument (or even some humour if there's any in you) rather than just picking up on some irrelevance because it's an easy way of venting of your frustrations at being unable to argue intelligently.

      --
      Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
  31. Or... by Teran9 · · Score: 1

    How about red lights flashing at about 4Hz for exercise?

  32. Hmmmm. by WindBourne · · Score: 2, Funny

    Perhaps a good way to force product turnover. Of course, it is probably limit your drivers.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  33. When you notice the driver in your car gets sleepy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Of course, the best thing would be to find a place to take a good rest. The second best thing is to talk to the driver on a subject he or her has good knowledge about. Ask him or her on the subject extensively during the drive. That will activate the portions of the brain that does the thinking and keep the driver very awake. Driving, particularly at night, can be done very well while under hypnosis, which is nothing but a normal state of partially asleep. It will work for a couple of hours.

  34. optional only please by 800DeadCCs · · Score: 1

    TFA mentions "light showers" at rest stops... ok, not too intrusive, optional, but may lead you to push yourself harder than you should.

    Blue LEDs in your face?
    HELL NO!
    I tape over the blue led for my brights because even that is too much of a hit on my night vision.

    "Shifting it (body's clock) by eight hours takes at least 10 days, and very few people are capable of doing that,"
    BS
    Some of us are able.
    Some of us are natural night people.
    Some people have different sleep patterns (body working on a longer day).
    You gotta wonder who this hypothetical "normal" person they talk about is, and how much his life must suck.

    As this is regarding truckers though, you can bet there will be "un-official" deployments of this.
    One other poster/former trucker has posted about being taught how to lie on the logs the very first day.
    Anything a company can do for money, it will.

    1. Re:optional only please by fractoid · · Score: 1

      As for shifting body clock, my body clock shifts itself by 8 hours in a week on its own if I'm on holidays. Within a week of a normal (get up at 8-9am, sleep around midnight-1am) I'm going to sleep at 6-7am and waking up mid-afternoon.

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    2. Re:optional only please by LaskoVortex · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Some of us are natural night people.

      Yes we are. Some of us don't think clearly until after the sun has been down a few hours. Some of us have been that way since we were six despite the fact that we were raised by dads who kept us on a military time clock--and it didn't make one damn bit of difference, because we could invert the clock in one day by staying up until morning.

      I have a theory: morning people have a 22 hour internal clock. I have a 28 hour internal clock. When I was a kid, I used to think it was "insomnia", but its not, because insomnia means that you can't sleep. I can sleep just dandy--about 20 hours after I get up. If I get six full hours, I'm wired like a jack russell terrier for a long long time. So I have to live about 6 days out of the week dead tired (4-5 hours of sleep) so that I have any hope of getting those 4 or 5 hours. One day of 6-7 and I need to be up 20 hours to compensate. My clock gets advanced two or three hours sleeping (god forbid) 8, and I spend the week working it back. Friends, this is not fun. Its also not choice, because if I could trade my 28 hour clock for a 22 hour clock (like my wife has) I would in a heartbeat. I'd use those other 2 hours for sleep. 10 hours of sleep per day--that would rule.

      If you study sleep--dig yourself into that theory above. You have some big papers coming your way, I guarantee you.

      Only when I got to be an adult did I realize that morning people aren't "faking it". Get this: they are really rather happy its morning! All that "good morning" stuff--its sincere to them. And you have to lie and say "good morning" right back to them or they won't understand you.

      Also, when I used to drive 17 hours straight (which I've done more than a few times) I couldn't wait for it to turn night so it wouldn't be so hard to stay up. Dylight is hell when a true night person wants to stay awake. If a blue light simulates that and intrudes on my precious darkness, I don't want any part of it.

      --
      Just callin' it like I see it.
    3. Re:optional only please by Loconut1389 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      lots of people are actually faking it at night from what I understand, especially women.

    4. Re:optional only please by VeriTea · · Score: 2, Informative

      My wife has this exact same problem. She was determined to solve it and first tried 'free-running sleep' where she stayed awake until she was tired then slept until she felt refreshed. This resulted in her sometimes being awake all night and gradually lapping herself. I think it worked out to a 28 hour day for her.

      That method allowed her to feel refreshed, awake, and productive, but it doesn't work well in our culture. After some research she ordered glasses from www.lowbluelights.com. We also ordered black-out curtains for every window in our apartment and sealed them every night so that when they are shut it is so dark you cannot see your hand in front of your face. The glasses (which filter out blue light and allow your body to ramp up melatonin production if you put them on 2-3 hours before bed) actually helped, when she could wear them perfectly, but the slightest slip-up and the effect would be lost.

      Next we tried using candles only for 3 hours before bed. This worked fantastically well. In fact, I would recommend trying it for a week (be sure to use black out curtains and get rid or completely cover *every* LED, or light source in your house (it will take a lot, you will be surprised). Both of us (and I never thought I had a problem), would become irresistibly drowsy after 2-3 hours of the candle light and would find ourselves waking about 10min before dawn after a two weeks of this method. It was an amazing insight into how different the modern world forces us to be from how we clearly are meant to operate. In addition, we were finally on the exact same sleep schedule, which if you have every had a different sleep schedule then your spouse you will know it can be a source of frustration.

      The candles were not without serious drawbacks. After a few months they turned the ceilings of our apartment a light gray color from soot, it was hard to not be able to read at night very well, and we were concerned about the fire hazard and the cost. Finally, we tried amber compact florescent light for every room as well as an amber screen cover for the computer monitor. This works well, not as good as the candle light, but much better then before we started using it. It used to be that both of us loved having every lamp turned on with the brightest bulb we could get until right before bed. Now neither of us can stand bright lights at night, it is like our bodies start to crave darkness when it comes time for it. This is the method we have used for the past 1-1/2 years, and it has brought a lot of normalcy to my wife's sleeping.

      Our next plan is to try and get some red lights to mix with the amber lights in the hope that it will allow us to get the full effect of candle light again. It is awesome to wake up fully refreshed right before dawn, and to fall asleep as soon as you head hits the pillow at night.

      --
      --- There are two kinds of people, those who accept dogmas and know it, and those who accept dogmas and don't know it
    5. Re:optional only please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How true this is.

      I had to track my sleep once and instead of a 10pm-6am, 7 nights a week sleep cycle, mine was random and seemed to get later and later as the week went on. Then I would fall asleep really early and the cycle would start over. It's something like phase adjusted sleep cycle or something. When I wasn't in school and wasn't working (and living by myself), I just let my body do whatever it wanted with no clocks and I was on a 24 hour awake, 12 hour asleep cycle, but wasn't spending much time outside in the AZ summer.

      It is strange going to the other side of the world, you actually feel 'normal' for a while.

      The only way I was able to fix it was to not use artificial lights or computer monitors at night. I would be able to use them in the morning when I woke up if it was still dark.

    6. Re:optional only please by sponge008 · · Score: 1

      Have you heard of the 28 hour day system (6 day weeks)? Might do more harm than good, but worth investigating. Personally, I find my brain is ridiculously sensitive to how much sleep I get -- more than a half hour off of about 9 and a half hours, and I'm a zombie. Getting up at the same time each day is practically mandatory, too.

    7. Re:optional only please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can relate to this. If you have not yet done so, I insist that you get a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polysomnogram done. It wouldn't be unreasonable to suspect that a degree of sleep apnoea - even mild - may occur among individuals with sleep phase difficulties.

    8. Re:optional only please by Loconut1389 · · Score: 1

      that was supposed to be a joke, but I'll take "interesting" :)

  35. now I know who to blame by Oktober+Sunset · · Score: 1

    Now I can proportion blame for all hte times I couldn't get to sleep. It was Dell's fault for putting blue LEDs on my laptop and charger which sit on the desk in my bedroom. Bastards ruined my sleep patterns.

  36. The Volkswagon Bug IPod version by heroine · · Score: 0

    And the Volkswagon Bug IPod edition will have a picture of Steve Jobs staring at U to keep U awake.

  37. Very useful for college students. by rvtheace · · Score: 2, Interesting

    At last, a foolproof way to stay awake during lectures.

  38. That's way I always found it annoying? by pmontra · · Score: 1

    I always found blue instrumentation lights very annoying and I vowed never to buy a car with them. This article might provide a rational explanation for my tastes. I also don't like red instrumentation lights, amber is bearable, green is best. Maybe it's just a traffic light syndrome :-)

  39. Jet lag by Per+Abrahamsen · · Score: 1

    So now we will get jet lag from driving a car at night?

  40. Really that useful? by popmaker · · Score: 1

    How long until our brain gets used to this signal just being that "blue widget" again and starts filtering it out?

    You can't fool yourself for too long.

  41. Blue desktop wallpaper tricks?(!)... by sznupi · · Score: 1

    Is that way MS initially put blue background into their "business oriented" w2k desktop, to keep those overworked drones awake? :p

    For some reason Apple gave up on blue in latest OS X...oh, and blue is sort of default for KDE...hmmm

    --
    One that hath name thou can not otter
    1. Re:Blue desktop wallpaper tricks?(!)... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A Microsoft joke, and blue lights, with no mention of the BSOD? What were you thinking?

  42. I have one of these lamps by sakari · · Score: 1

    I have one of these bright light lamps that uses an array of blue leds that emits light with the wavelength around 460 nm. Actually the leds are only blueish, and emit a bright white light. I imagine the article is talking about the same thing, so the leds don't resemble the "super blue" leds that everyone is annoyed with.

    I'm a bit skeptical though If I would like to use this kind of device in my car, because this simulation of the sun can mess up your sleep rhythm if you take it regularly while driving, or so I could imagine. I use the bright light every morning, to make me wake up and boost my moods generally during the dark winter time, which lasts a long time in Finland and can really bring my moods down.

    I also suffer (when viewed from the modern societys point of view, where you go to work from 8-16 and that's it) from an irregural rhythm of sleep, so I feel really energetic during the nighttime, so I need all the help I can get.

    Maybe the idea is good, but I'm not sure if I want to be artificially kept not from sleeping while driving my car. Why not take a break ? This brings us down to the question of the modern society and the ideas that companies come up to boost peoples "work effectivity". I would rather take a siesta during the day than drink coffee and look at bright lights, but sadly that is not possible in so many places.

  43. Credit to Bob Monkhouse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Very funny guy, rest in peace

  44. Insomnia Destroys the Thalamus by Whiteox · · Score: 1

    FYI: I saw a program last night that showed how insomnia and sleep deprivation adversely affected the thalamus. A damaged thalamus can cause coma and death, with on going dementia as being the classic symptom.

    --
    Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
  45. How it works by Dachannien · · Score: 2, Informative

    Light, in general, suppresses the production of melatonin by the retina, and melatonin plays a role in maintaining circadian rhythms. Higher levels of melatonin make you more sleepy, which is why melatonin is sold OTC as a sleep aid.

    One of the treatments for some sleep disorders is called "light therapy", and involves having a fairly bright light in view for about an hour after you wake up. This inhibits melatonin production and resets the circadian cycle to keep that as your wake-up time (which also places your go-to-sleep time at an appropriate time of day). Recent studies indicate that the suppression of melatonin production peaks around 450nm, so a blue light around that wavelength is far more effective per lumen than broad-spectrum light.

    So, if you're a person who does a lot of night driving (you work the night shift, you drive trucks at night, etc.), this is great for you, because you can get by with a much dimmer light, perhaps even one in the vehicle while you're driving. If you just need this for one or two nights, you're a bit likely to give yourself jet lag by screwing up your sleep schedule.

  46. And is it really needed? by Rurik · · Score: 1

    FTA:
    "Nearly 30% of all fatal accidents involving large trucks in the US happen during the hours of darkness"
    So, 70% of accidents still occur during the day.

    There's a reason trucks drive at night: it's when there are no cars on the road. No soccer moms riding the left lane under the speed limit, no kids blitzing through traffic. A large number of truckers prefer night driving; I'm actually surprised there aren't MORE accidents at night.

    Cool tech, but I hate when they throw in useless statistics to try and justify it.

  47. What could possibly go wrong? by Adeptus_Luminati · · Score: 1

    So the answer to sleep deprevation is to extend sleep deprevation? Brilliant (not). Those truckers that already spend 12 to 18 hours on the road may now be spending even longer periods thanks to blue light science. Hmmm...what could possibly go wrong?

    --
    No trees were killed in the making of this post; however, many trillions of electrons were horribly inconvenienced.
  48. Brought to you by K-Mart by jpellino · · Score: 1

    sorry, had to.

    --
    "Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
  49. Singing! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The best way to stay awake while driving is singing, especially if you're a bad one (singer not driver). Try it out.

  50. Playing with Circadian Rhythm != Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circadian_rhythm

    Disruption

    Disruption to rhythms usually has a negative effect. Many travelers have experienced the condition known as jet lag, with its associated symptoms of fatigue, disorientation and insomnia.

    A number of other disorders, for example bipolar disorder and some sleep disorders are associated with irregular or pathological functioning of circadian rhythms. Recent research suggests that circadian rhythm disturbances found in bipolar disorder are positively influenced by lithium's effect on clock genes.[14]

    Disruption to rhythms in the longer term is believed to have significant adverse health consequences on peripheral organs outside the brain, particularly in the development or exacerbation of cardiovascular disease. Timing of medical treatment in coordination with the body clock may significantly increase efficacy and reduce drug toxicity or adverse reactions. For example, appropriately timed treatment with angiotensin converting enzyme inhibitors (ACEi) may reduce nocturnal blood pressure and also benefit left ventricular (reverse) remodeling.

    Shift work, particularly the night shift, has in December 2007 been listed by the World Health Organization (WHO) as a "probable cause" of cancer.[15]

  51. And here I thought by porkchop_d_clown · · Score: 1

    that they served to make me night-blind so I couldn't see out the windshield.

    Seriously, I bought a Sony stereo for my truck, and it doesn't support dimming at night - I ended up putting a piece of black plastic over the face so I could see oncoming traffic.

  52. Sleep deprivation? by argent · · Score: 1

    This would explain why I had so much trouble sleeping until I put some tape over the activity light of my external drive.

  53. I already have blue lights. by Propaganda13 · · Score: 2, Funny

    My dash is blue. My stereo is blue. The blue lights, they do nothing.

  54. A potential customer!!! by ghoul · · Score: 2, Funny

    "Check! I can keep going all night folks."

    Make Sure you get some blue lights to keep you going all night....

    --
    **Life is too short to be serious**
    1. Re:A potential customer!!! by igny · · Score: 1

      Slashdot should change its background to flashing blue. This way I can reload the home page all night, not just when I am at work.

      --
      In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. - Yogi Berra
  55. I actually prefer yellow by MadJo · · Score: 1

    Yellow tinted glasses (for instance certain sunglasses) are what keeps me awake. Though I do not drive my car in the night with sunglasses on, but you have these special yellow-tinted driving glasses that seems to help people.

    Blue just makes me want to go to sleep.

  56. Blue is cool but Ultraviolet LEDs are cooler by LM741N · · Score: 1

    Bought a whole bunch of Ultraviolet LED's surplus. Don't know what they use them for. I put a bunch of them on a proto board, each with a series resistor, then connected all of those in parallel. It was really bright. Very interesting.

  57. Maybe it's about temperament or self-discipline by SuurMyy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I have a theory: morning people have a 22 hour internal clock. I have a 28 hour internal clock.

    This changes w/age. People in their fifties have usually an internal clock of some 24 hrs. Some can have even 30 hours or more at their twenties. Old people can have internal clocks of 19-20 hrs, which is why they tend to get tired early in the evening and then start waking up in the very early morning hours.

    Some of us don't think clearly until after the sun has been down a few hours. Some of us have been that way since we were six despite the fact that we were raised by dads who kept us on a military time clock--and it didn't make one damn bit of difference, because we could invert the clock in one day by staying up until morning.

    In my case I don't think it's really about my internal clock, as you could really time your clock by me when I was a baby, regarding both sleeping and eating. My folks made me get up at 07:00 every morning in the week for the 17 years I lived w/them. Now I'm soon 34, and I have a day off from work, and I woke up at 13:48. Any why ?

    Because it was supposedly so important to watch a few more videos from Beyond Belief 2.0. I went to bed at 05:30 (am), just because I was so darn stubborn to keep on watching the videos about a subject that I found highly interesting. I actually played solitaire for the last few hours just to keep myself active so that I don't get too sleepy.

    My theory is that at least some of the so-called night people are just like me: They're too intensive, too driven and too interested in things to let go of the day - it's like every day you go to bed it's a little death. And don't get me wrong, it's wonderful to get there when you're really tired, but the thing is that I still don't want to go to bed at night. I can say that to me going to bed feels like a punishment every and each day, and I drag it off for as long as I just can. If I didn't do this, I'd probably be more effective many days, because I would've slept as much as I really needed, had I gone to bed in good time.

    I have a friend who has an intensively driven personality just like me, and he tends to do just the same things - stay awake just for the sake of it, like I guess we did when we were children. It was just so much fun to be able to stay up after your bedtime. Maybe this is in part is an effect of how we're brought up. Some Freudian would surely conclude that I want to stay up every night just to defy my parents who always put me to bed when I was a child.

    Only when I got to be an adult did I realize that morning people aren't "faking it". Get this: they are really rather happy its morning! All that "good morning" stuff--its sincere to them. And you have to lie and say "good morning" right back to them or they won't understand you. Well, if I wasn't always tired in the morning w/having to get to work, maybe I'd feel better about mornings, too. As it is, I pay the price for not going to bed in time especially in the mornings.
    --
    The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne
    1. Re:Maybe it's about temperament or self-discipline by Joe+the+Lesser · · Score: 1

      I'm like you, I don't want to sleep because I'm enjoying the stimulus of being awake, and I know I won't immediately be able to continue it in the morning. When I do get tired I pass out instantly, but that never happens at times that society would prefer.

      Now, I can force myself to bed by daydreaming of interesting things, at least I'm getting better at it...maybe getting older, but I still have that urge to stimulate myself like crazy until I pass out. Probably was useful before civilization required we get up at the same time so we can work together.

      --
      "I only speak the truth"
      Karma: null(Mostly affected by an unassigned variable)
    2. Re:Maybe it's about temperament or self-discipline by LaskoVortex · · Score: 1

      My theory is that at least some of the so-called night people are just like me: They're too intensive, too driven and too interested in things to let go of the day

      My theory is that you are just not tired.

      I used to hear my mom say "there are just not enough hours in the day". I didn't really get that as a kid. I used to think it was because she wanted more time to do the things she needed to get done. Now I think it is because it would have given her more hours to become tired. The only way I've ever found to shorten my clock is to work out as hard as possible. This would make me tired to go to bed. Problem is that I am now pushing 40 and if I work out that hard, I end up aggravating some injury I got doing athletics as a youth. I'd rather be sleep deprived than limp or need a brace. Cackling along in a brace up to your knee is horribly annoying.

      My wife is just like old people. She will literally pass out at 10 pm while I shake her trying to keep her awake. This is not narcolepsy, because she pops up at the ass-crack of dawn every day. After 1 week of "freestyle sleep" she will be waking up about 2 hours earlier. This is genetic. "Discipline", as you call it, is the discipline to go ahead and get up on 4 hours. I'm loosing that as I get older, that's for sure. Fortunately, all that discipline I've shown through the years has put me in a position to go ahead and cash in and let the clock drift as it may a lot of the time.

      I firmly disbelieve in the thought that you can be "disciplined" about going to sleep. I have ran that experiment hundreds of times. If you are not sleepy, you can't go to sleep, it doesn't matter how disciplined you are. Its not pushups or a two mile run. In fact, its exactly the opposite.

      --
      Just callin' it like I see it.
    3. Re:Maybe it's about temperament or self-discipline by ToyKeeper · · Score: 1

      Well, if I wasn't always tired in the morning w/having to get to work, maybe I'd feel better about mornings, too. As it is, I pay the price for not going to bed in time especially in the mornings. If you are awake at night by choice (meaning you are able to fall asleep on time if you try), and being tired is the only consequence of getting up on time, you probably don't have a circadian rhythym disorder. People with an actual disorder tend to get worse symptoms when they force themselves to get up on time, such as frequently getting ill, and laying awake in bed for hours each night.
  58. This is going from bad to worse ! by MarkKnopfler · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I thought that we had hit the pits with Toyota's MAINT REQUIRED flashing LED on the dashboard. It undoubtedly was the dumbest piece of instrumentation I had ever seen. Let me explain -- The flashing of this led has nothing to do with the mechanical state of the car. Nope, no instrumentation connected to that LED except a timer. Reset it buy pressing a few buttons here and there and you dont need MAINT ! Then it got worse. BMW comes up with a even lousier idea -- If your car changes lanes, and you dont have the blinker on, the steering wheel vibrates ! And now this. In all honesty, the mind bleeds.
    Guys, if you want to _really_ make better cars give us more muscle, smoother gearboxes, better crash safety and mileage. Also, do not cover up lack of innovation with eye-candy. Please leave the driving to the customer.

  59. Hey Boo Boo! by keineobachtubersie · · Score: 1

    "I use a special full spectrum light to keep me from going into involuntary hibernation in winter...It makes you wonder what biological basis there is for blue light to set circadian rhythm."

    Not really, I was wondering how a bear could type with such big paws.

  60. Nothing new there. by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 1

    40 years ago, truckers had blue lights mounted under their dashboards precisely to stay awake.

  61. i drive a 2006 acura mdx by circletimessquare · · Score: 1

    and they have these twin blue led lights mounted above the rear view mirror pointed diagonally down. i can't figure how to turn them off. i thought they were for reading maps at night. perhaps honda's r&d guys are ahead of the curve here?

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  62. Just to bring you up to date... by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

    Cars are three ton piles of steel nowadays. For added safety, of course.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  63. How to lie with statistics by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

    I'm not trying to dispute that driving under the influence is dangerous, but MADD and other neo-prohibition groups have found ways to inflate those numbers.

    "Alcohol Related" means any alcohol found in anyone remotely involved in the crash.

    Crash your car into a tree: Alcohol related
    Drunk jumps out in front of your car while you're driving home: Alcohol related.
    Grandma backs her car into a farmers market full of drunk people: Alcohol Related.
    0.001 BAC: Alcohol Related. .4 BAC: Alcohol Related.
    Crash your car as a DD with a carload full of friends: Alcohol Related.

    100% of people that drink alcohol will die.
    100% of people that drive will die.

    1. Re:How to lie with statistics by DrVomact · · Score: 1

      "Alcohol Related" means any alcohol found in anyone remotely involved in the crash.
      Crash your car into a tree: Alcohol related

      I'm sorry, but you're going to have to explain that one to me. Are there alcohol trees? Or did someone spill a can of beer on the tree's roots?

      --
      Great men are almost always bad men--Lord Acton's Corollary
    2. Re:How to lie with statistics by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      I originally had an (obvious) after that one. I was starting out with a "Yes this is a crash where alcohol was a contributing factor" then went into everything else it covered.

  64. 2 way action by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "blue light at around 450nm wavelength can fool them into thinking its morning and keep us awake"
    so it fools THEM and keeps US awake..interesting..

  65. Solution for pedestrians by SEWilco · · Score: 1

    So this is why it is a good idea for pedestrians to have blue-lit umbrellas.

  66. Blue Light Leads To Macular Degeneration by marx2k · · Score: 1

    Sure blue light can cause loss of night vision and the answer to sleep deprivation is not more sleep deprivation piled on top. But, exposure to blue light does cause macular degeneration of time.

    http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUS265&q=blue+macular+degeneration&btnG=Google+Search

  67. Application for new parents? by mikeasu · · Score: 1

    Maybe it's just because we just had a rough night with #1 (20 months) and #2 (3.5 weeks), but... Wonder if say, 30 min with a blue led headset while breast- or bottle-feeding could give a new mom a little lift.

  68. Hmm Interesting by kellyb9 · · Score: 1

    I'm sure Windows users see the opposite effect. I know whenever I get the blue screen of death, I usually just decide to go to sleep.

  69. I know this works by PPH · · Score: 1

    The blue lights in my rear-view mirror sure wake me up!

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  70. This Fraggle apparently ignores blue by LoadWB · · Score: 1

    I used to make long road trips in a car with blue lighting (though, probably not 450nm) and that never helped me.

    My current car has blue back-lighting in the instrument cluster though, again, probably not 450nm.

    Morning light has never kept me from sleeping.

    Over all, I just sleep when I'm tired. Maybe two hours, maybe four hours, maybe 10 hours. But always when I'm ready to sleep, or genuinely bored.

    I'm more like a Fraggle: I can nap at the drop of a hat.

  71. Keeps me awake by AutoTheme · · Score: 1

    I'm not sure of the wavelength, but the blue light on my Wii keeps me awake while driving, though it's still difficult to play games that require the nunchuck.

  72. Buses do not run on Sundays or holidays by tepples · · Score: 1

    I can't take safe, cheap, and convenient mass transit to work Where I live, mass transit isn't convenient. There are routine outages spanning 60 hours at a time: the buses stop running at 6 PM on Saturday night, are closed all Sunday, are closed for a holiday on Monday, and reopen on Tuesday morning.
    1. Re:Buses do not run on Sundays or holidays by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 1

      Where I live, mass transit isn't convenient.

      Mass transit isn't convenient where I live either - it's just about non-existent, which is why I wrote that "I can't take safe, cheap, and convenient mass transit to work". Whenever I come back from a trip to a city with working public transportation, I weep for Baltimore.

      And the reason mass transit sucks in much of the the U.S. is because of the car culture - we've build our society around roads and car ownership, from development and zoning laws to automobile industry bail-outs to a foreign policy based on keeping the oil flowing.

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
  73. New form of "speed"??? by pvcf · · Score: 1

    ... and we all know, speed kills man!

    --
    F U NE X N M? Son: "Dad... How do you spell 'hourly'?" Dad: "0 * * * *"
  74. 30% of fatal accidents... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From TFA:
    "Nearly 30% of all fatal accidents involving large trucks in the US happen during the hours of darkness"

    Did the researchers neglect to notice that roughly 30% of each day also happens during the hours of darkness?

    I'll turn it around.
    More than 70% of all fatal accidents involving large trucks in the US happen during the hours of daylight. I hereby propose that truckers not be allowed to drive during the day.

  75. Fools! by BrendaEM · · Score: 1

    Anyone who puts blue light in the interior of a car that is driven at night is an fool. It is a long established fact that blue light temporary night vision; deep red is less harmful to your night vision.

    --
    https://www.youtube.com/c/BrendaEM
  76. Doesn't help me out much... by paintballer1087 · · Score: 0

    I'm colorblind you insensitive clod!

  77. Wrong Wavelength... Again! by RonBurk · · Score: 1

    Here's a funny little science story. Scientists who study the effect of light on the retina are all, oh, sciency and technical. So when they talk about the wavelength of light hitting the retina, they want to be sure they're really talking about light at the retina.

    In adult humans, the eye lens yellows with age (perhaps an adaptive response to help shield us from harmful blue light). Now, these sciency guys know that those yellow lenses alter the frequency of light. So, even though they are shining a wavelength of, say, 505nm into the eyes of their adult human subjects, in all their research papers they mathematically correct for the distortion of yellowed lenses and therefore always publish a wavelength like 450nm. Because that's what the wavelength will be after it goes through the yellow lenses of adult humans.

    Here comes the funny part: lots and lots of other folks reading those scientific papers miss the whole yellowed lens trick, so they go off and do things like build a million blue "light therapy" boxes that are operating at the wrong frequency for adults. So, you get some folks who get the inevitable placebo effect, others who get little or no effect at all, and using light to affect melatonin is set back another ten years (which puts it almost to 0!).

  78. Unlawful by Vexor · · Score: 1

    In this state (MN) I believe it is considered "unlawful" to have blue lights inside your car as that color, along with red, is reserved for the emergency vehicles...

    --
    ~Vexed and loving it!
    1. Re:Unlawful by ivan256 · · Score: 1

      Do they sell Honda, Acura, Nissan, or Infiniti vehicles there? All of them have mild blue LED interior ambient lighting at all times as a standard feature.

      Sounds like an "urban legend" sort of law to me.

    2. Re:Unlawful by Vexor · · Score: 1

      I drive a 2007 Honda, no blue lights anywhere. It might only apply to headlights. LEDs aren't terribly bright, I'd doubt anyone would confuse them with the Police. Strip lighting around the interior from "Pimpin Your Ride" might.

      --
      ~Vexed and loving it!
    3. Re:Unlawful by necro2607 · · Score: 1

      I drive a 2008 Honda (Fit), and it has a whole bunch of blue lights. Then again I have them dimmed pretty notably so I'm not blinded at night. The brightest setting is VERY BRIGHT, so much that I've never had it set to even close to the maximum, even during the day.

  79. Maybe this is why . . . by indytx · · Score: 1

    We all love Kmart so much!

    --
    Make love, not reality television.
  80. Get some sleep buddy... by Dareth · · Score: 1

    ... you posted enough... and for some reason I actually read all of it!

    --

    I only look human.
    My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
  81. Truck Drivers by Dog135 · · Score: 1

    First off, your comment deems that you have never driven a 18-wheeler, Most company's back in the day taught you how to cheat on your log books so you can drive more than 500 miles a day. The first day I was hired, they taught me all of this. They push your ass to drive, and if you don't produce they fire your ass. Some good companies are not this way, granted... but to generalize this isn't a good thing. Ever drive 10 hours, then have to unload a 48' trailer by hand and then pick up a load and get sleep? It's a PITA, and that's why I don't do it anymore. And no, I've never crashed my truck.

    DOT's been riding company's backs about this. The law now states that you can't drive more then 11 hours a day, and can't drive or be on duty more then 70 hours in 8 days. (so no more then 8.75 hours per day average) If the company pushes you to break this law, the DOT can fine them big time. My company checks my location via gps every hour and if it doesn't match my logs, they'll fire me. I just met a guy that had that happen to him. He was using speed averaging, which, for those who don't know, means changing your logs so it shows you've been driving 65, etc. the entire trip, despite having driven over hills and through traffic.

    As far as the blue lights go, I rarely turn on my brights because the blue "brights" light indicator on the dash bothers my eyes too much. I do however have "foot well" lights that are red and light up my feet. They're there for the same purpose, to help keep drivers awake during night driving.

    BTW: Truck driving is a pretty nice skill to fall back on if you're in IT. There's always a high demand for drivers, and it's easy to pick back up between jobs. I found out from my recruiter that many of the new drivers she's seen are former programmers.
    --
    "That's so plausible, I can't believe it!" - Leela
  82. Lower resolution in the eyes. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I have noticed that most people, myself included, cannot focus their vision on "deep blue" (sapphire blue) glowing signs at night, those remain "fuzzy" no matter how hard you concentrate.

    That's mainly because the layout of the eye's cones (the color receptors) is a sparse hexagonal array of blue sensors filled in with a randomly-blotchy sea of red and green sensors. The blue image is lower resolution than the red, green, or black-and-white. (I'm not sure if there's also an issue with chromatic aberration causing the focus to be less accurate in blue. But that would be appropriate given the sensor layout.)

    Some older taillight designs take advantage of this to produce a distance cue at ranges far beyond binocular vision usability: They have a blue jewel in the midst of the red lens. When the car is close you see red with a blue dot. When it's farther away the blue "leaks" out due to the lower resolution and the whole taillight appears purple. Still farther and the blue leaks beyond the red, producing a purple taillight with a blue aura. Result: You can keep track of the car at all distances but see red only when the car is close enough to be an immediate hazard.

    Unfortunately government regulations now penalize showing colors other than red to the rear.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    1. Re:Lower resolution in the eyes. by salec · · Score: 1

      Result: You can keep track of the car at all distances but see red only when the car is close enough to be an immediate hazard.
      Very clever. Of course, then you probably meant: "... but see blue only when the car is close enough..."
  83. They're high color temp. lights by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

    Furthermore, there's a worrying increase (on UK roads at least) headlamps with a *nasty* blue tint to them. I've no idea what they're called but they *really* screw with my eyes, mostly on BMWs and boy racers. Night vision gets all messed up and there's noticeable scarring (after image) - anyone know what the bulbs are? They're regular bulbs you can buy at any RiceMart, not neccessarily HIDs. Ricers think that the higher the color temperature of their headlights, the cooler they are. Not kidding. I know a guy who runs a car parts import shop and he regularly gets requests for 8000k+ lights...sometimes up to 12000k. He refuses to import or sell any bulbs over 8000k. I support his decision entirely.
    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  84. *correction* by msimm · · Score: 1

    If your BMW changes lanes, and you don't have the blinker on, electrocute.

    Finally, a feature that's worth-while.

    --
    Quack, quack.
  85. how safe can it be? by juan2074 · · Score: 1

    Finally, an alternative to crystal meth.

    Truckers, start your engines.

  86. Casino by brjndr · · Score: 1

    Does this explain why some casinos paint their ceilings like the sky, to keep you from feelign tired and going to bed?

    I expect them to start putting blue lights at every machine and table.

  87. Nice! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where can I get me a pair of glasses or something similarly mobile and wearable that keeps emitting this blue light towards my eyes?

  88. Passing on the right and other hazards. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

    Some states have laws forbidding passing on the right, others do not.

    They were commoner in the past than now, because many have been repealed due to their tendency to imped traffic on high lane-count expressways. (I think California may have been the one to start repealing the rule.)

    = = = =

    What drives me nuts is that driver education classes no longer teaches a safety rule they once taught: NEVER hold the same speed as the car in the adjacent lane. To do so causes accidents two ways:

      1) It turns a pair of cars into a two-lane rolling roadblock (or more into a multi-lane roadblock ditto) impeding other drivers who want to go faster (whether legally or otherwise). The result is a number of closely-packed cars behind the cars that are pacing each other. This leads to chain-reaction collisions if something causes one or both of them to suddenly brake.

      2) Pacing a car means you aren't moving relative to it. So you're not triggering the motion detection mechanism in the driver's peripheral vision system. After a minute or so he forgets you're there. Then he may turn into you during a lane change or when avoiding an obstacle. Or he may startle the next time he notices you and swerve, brake suddenly, or otherwise behave erratically - and startle YOU, causing you to do the same. A near-miss if he swerves or changes lanes may also cause YOU to brake. (In addition to direct problems between the two of you, if you've collected a pack this may be the start of the chain reaction accident.)

    I've always thought the rightmost continuous lane (i.e. the one that doesn't keep disappearing down exits and rejoining after) should be marked, and the speed limit should rise five MPH per lane on those to its left. That would encourage a smooth flow of traffic, with the cars on the left slowly passing those to their right. While holding exactly the same speed may cause accidents, the problems arise mainly from significant speed differences between cars and the surrounding obstacles (stationary or other cars). So though traveling faster, the drivers on the left have less processing load from tracking the nearby cars going roughly the same speed than those on the right who are dealing with cars entering or exiting, debris and cars stopped in the shoulder, nearby roadsigns and other visual destractions, etc.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  89. Really Rotten Idea. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

    Yes, I know there are times that we've all had to drive with less sleep than we should have... but is this a good answer? To me it would seem to inspire false confidence on the part of the driver, where they might think that they could stay up and not have to worry about falling asleep driving since they had their blue lights blinking or whatever.

    IMHO designing car lighting so that anyone who drives at night ends up with jet lag as a way of life is a Really Rotten Idea (tm).

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  90. Blue LEDs make me ill by B5_geek · · Score: 1

    I hope I am not the only one, but whenever I see a blue LED shining in my eye, my stomach turns and I feel slightly queezy and nauseous. I despise the recent fad of putting BRIGHT blue LEDs on every consumer electronic product.

    I have had to cover them all in my home and car with a dot of black electrical tape.

    --
    "The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." ~Plato (427-347 BC)
  91. Blue LED's everywhere by altek · · Score: 1

    is soooooo 2003. I think they should use x-ray LEDs instead.

    --
    THE MAGIC WORDS ARE SQUEAMISH OSSIFRAGE
  92. hth is that possible? by Non-Huffable+Kitten · · Score: 1

    I'm baffled by this suggestion every time... I guess it isn't intended for people whose falling-asleep-time has a standard deviation on the order of said 90min :)

    --
    Medium cat is MEDIUM.