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WCG Tournament Director Admits Drugs In E-Sports
SlappingOysters writes "In the lead up to the World Cyber Games finals in Germany, Gameplayer has an incredible interview with Tournament Director Alex Walker in which he freely admits knowledge of participants taking illegal drugs to enhance their performance. The interview came in response to a previous article by the site in which they examined whether there was a need to bring drug testing into professional gaming events to ensure a level playing field. Walker said, 'I've seen a number of players at national tournaments who came in "baked" (that's stoned for the uninformed) purely so they could play better. In most cases they did, although obviously they couldn't just pull out another joint midway through. In one WCG, a player I knew took amphetamines an hour before his match to boost his reflexes.'"
'I've seen a number of players at national tournaments who came in "baked" (that's stoned for the uninformed) purely so they could play better. In most cases they did ...
Um, I'm not a regular drug user but how are the effects of Cannabis beneficial to gaming?
Acute effects while under the influence include euphoria, increased appetite, anxiety, short-term memory loss, and circulation effects which may increase risks of heart attacks.
I understand how drugs that affect your nervous system -- like uppers -- can increase your reaction time and muscle twitching for those games involving twitch skills. And nobody can shred on a guitar like an coked up hair band ... but how does a drug that made my college roommate double up in laughter and fail at communication make someone better at video games?
My work here is dung.
It gives you the munchies, makes you paranoid, and makes you giggle every time someone says "420" but it doesn't make you better at Halo. So stop telling smugly telling other stoners that you're only smoking weed for "professional reasons." Unless you're paid to sit around all day watching "Krypto the Superdog" marathons on the Cartoon Network, then YOU'RE JUST A STONER!
Oh, and here's another insight, Pete. To be a professional gamer YOU ACTUALLY HAVE TO GET PAID FOR IT! And, much as I applaud your claim to be one of the best "WWE: Day of Reckoning" players in the world, I'm pretty sure no one is going to be holding a tournament for an obscure Gamecube title anytime soon. And, in other professional videogaming news, Skykes is getting tired of you crashing on his couch!
Oh sorry, was I ranting? I assure you this post has nothing to do with anyone I know.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
So they drug themselves up, boo-hoo. Clearly these are inferior competitions if doping is beneficial, just look at any motorsports competition and you'll notice people aren't doping because the sideeffects of anything are too impeding.
While I think illicit drugs should definitely be banned, as always we have to ask what extent does this go to?
I can get in there and hook up a coffee/Red Bull IV, and do almost as much damage to my body as taking dexedrine. So they ban caffeine, which means no moutain dew, and we know mountain dew is one of the nectars of the gods.
As soon as you start eliminating caffeine, we get to the point that they can't take cold medicine before a tourney as it will show up as a drug.
As soon as money and egos get involved, people will look for any advantage they can get. I think drugs should be outlawed, but that the organizers need to be realistic, and understand that anything in excess can be harmful, and that a well rounded approach is necesary
I would've thought the same thing. But then again, here we have gamers shooting for major prize money (some of the events you get more than in real sports) choosing to take them. i guess it depends on the game. The amphetamines i can understand a lot more. Focus, and fast, and awake all night.
Cool! Also, I sometimes post on the dot while "baked" (pissed off for the uninformed).
=Smidge=
Is it just my observation, or is eldavojohn an idiot?
Amphetamines make perfect sense, as would caffeine but I highly doubt cannabis would be beneficial.
\u262D = \u5350
Ok, amphetamines I can see, but weed? It doesn't exactly make your reflexes better and it's hard to pay attention when you laugh incessantly for no apparent reason. But I suppose it could help you focus more intently if... man my hands are HUGE... wait, what was I saying again?...
if you can spend 12 hours playing a game, then you're stoned. anyone else would get bored and go out.
They must miss that their lead demographic coincides with the lead demographic for marijuana use.
fools. These are the people who bought GTA? do you honestly think that they don;t toke?
in my experience coming to anything baked leads to no advantage heh. ..maybe a concert, but no actual brain involving activity.
Maybe it's more pyschological like how smokers will have a smoke to calm their nerves when it actually has the opposite affect.
As for drug testing at the events to me it's just a matter of how "official" they want to be. I went to quake con once and it was more of a big party then an actual contest.
I'm kinda bemused....
...does this make a roomful of avid gamers actually interesting or fun to be with?
(or are they just as boring when they are off their tits?)
They didn't come in baked so they could play better - they came in baked because they're stoners. If they were at home watching tv, they'd be just as baked (and it's not so that they could watch tv better though I'm sure being stoned makes some of the crap on tv seem better...).
...I still find it hard to accept that some guys are actually "professional gamers"
Joe Investor
If you meant stoned, why not say that in the first place? Stop hijacking random words!
Amphetamines carry an even more debilitating crash than most stimulants. Imagine what happens if, when stuck against a superior competitor who is not drugged, the matches run longer than the duration of the drugs? Final round failure is annoying, but final round narcolepsy? That just proves you're an idiot.
Those things you're doing with that stuff you just bought? That's not what it's for! -
Geeks Wake and Bake, then Quake!
News like this make me ashamed of my hobby in a way that even Barbie Horse Adventures couldn't manage.
I find that playing video games after smoking some of the finest herb allows me to get into a very relaxed state of mind. This I think is the ultimate factor in defeating many of my opponents. It just puts me "In The Zone."
First ... like ... post ... dude.
I am .... so fucking .... baked.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
Its all part of their pregame routine. Every athlete has one.
"In most cases they did, although obviously they couldn't just pull out another joint midway through" .... "Itâ(TM)d be a lot cooler if you did."....
... I'll have a Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster with a side of Plutonium Nyborg
Why no drug testing other sports do it? Just look at Floyd Landis.
I thought some addictive computer games were actually a form of drugs, maybe you could call them e-drugs! Unless you need extra caffeine, which I think many of the marathon gamers need so that they won't die of fatigue.
slashdot rocks
because now it is not a display of human mastery, now it is a display of biochemical mastery
this is not some subtle philosophical point, because the followup point is that the emotional connection with the competitors is what drives audience attention, and that emotional connection is lost as people will tune out when they think it is the drug performing, rather than the athlete
any sport that openly accept drug enhancement is a sport that will see its ratings drop.
of course there will always be cheating, of course this means we must wage constant war, constant arms race, forever, on drugs in sports. this is simply the price you pay to retain interest in the sport
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
I am not entirely certain why this is important? Are they going to outlaw Jolt, Red Bull, or Bawlz from the tournament? No? Then this an issue for the police.
While the performance effects of cannabis are questionable, the fact that drug use, be it for recreational use or performance enhancement, is well known to gamers who actively compete in these kind of events.
Of the dozens of events I've attended, there's always a significant number of people getting baked before the evens. It's also not surprising to see a handful of people taking amphetamines to keep them on their A-game after hours worth of match ups.
Frankly this shouldn't be surprising, the entire sport centers around high caffeine sodas and gamer themed energy drinks. These events last for 6-8 hours at a time and winning becomes even more critical as the matches move towards the 11th hour.
The community's resistance towards the entire drug testing issue best highlights all of this, when a number of leagues started pushing around the idea, there was both apathy and outrage over the idea, yet few voices of support on the issue. The suggestion that nearly every team has at least one guy who probably does some kind of narcotic also plays a part in this viewpoint.
Until pro-gaming starts to get some real ad dollars behind it, the drug use will continue.
I can tell from my personal experience (i was a contender @ WCG finals few years back), that marijuana doesn't help you at all when you are playing at this level. What players usually do, they drink LOTS of red bull-like stuff. (5-10 cans in a day is not unusual). As to the marijuana use, its just a social thing, something to help you have fun at the tournament and relax. (the age demographics of WCG participants is 17-23, go figure...) It has nothing to do with enhancing your play. Some players may be using amphetamine-based stuff, but I think, its very rare.
Most recreational drugs are recreational because they produce an altered state of consciousness. Alcohol does the same thing. If you study a subject (say physics) while intoxicated, your recall of the material will be higher when intoxicated. It stands to reason that a similar phenomenon could exist with video games. They practice stoned so they play better stoned.
I'm not sure if that really counts as a "performance enhancing drug" though.
I have a CrystaLens implant that allows my old left eye to focus, unlike unmodified eyes in people my age. Before the implant my vision was incredibly bad; I wore "coke bottle" glasses all my life. Now my vision is vastly better than the normal 20/20. If I were in these games I would need no eyeglasses, unlike most nerds young and old, and unlike almost all geezers.
Sweat dripping down your glasses is a definite minus in any game.
Would my implant disqualify me? If not, I say let 'em ruin their lives with cocaine or amphetamines.
mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
Yeah, but have you ever played Barbie Horse Adventures on weed?
Cannabis can have a focusing effect for users, I know it does for me. It and other substances have different effects on different people despite the cliches trotted out here by various posters.
I also don't see why there should be drug testing. This is gaming, an underground sub-culture that overlaps with many other counter-culures. Drug use, including alcohol (mmm vodka tonics) improve my performance and enjoyment and is widely celebrated throughout the gaming universe.
This sounds like a perfect way to make your "CYBERGAMING" thing lame and unappealing to hardcore gamers. Drug use not going to give someone an edge because gaming is already on a non-level playing field, depending on PING and rig hardware.
and I am sad for you.
Episode 12. Turtle enters the game tournament, gets his ass kicked by a 10 year old and they figure out he sucks unless he's high.
...altough not the first thing that springs to mind.
People who play alot of games often have "bad days" and "good days". When you spray all over, get shot in the back and have a bad score...it's because the brain is in "alpha wave". When putting a single shot in the head is as easy as breathing, when you turn around exactly 3 seconds before an opponent turns around the corner you've been standing with your back towards for 3 minutes, when strategies just work every time, and when your score is just 10-1, when you don't get distracted by anything out-of-screen (scratching your nose, coughing, anything)...that's when your brain is in "beta wave".
You've probably tried this alot of times if you've played before and after you've just eaten. Before you eat, you're ZOOOOMM good, after you eat, you're slow and sleepy.
Drugs can affect this easily. I know people who've taken amph when playing CS...they say it's like being able to see 360.
While it's a relatively new subject to take up, it doesn't suprise me that this happen alot. It means everything in a match. If you're in perfect beta wave state (god that sounds lame), you could easily own the entire enemy team, again and again.
I think it's a very good thing to test people for it at tournaments. Not just because it's cheating, but the difference it makes is so staggering, that alot of people will be tempted to destroy themselves with drugs. The addictiveness of drugs...combined with the addiction of winning...very dangerous.
It's about time we had a sporting event in which drug enhancements are welcome so we can see the effects of the different drugs. "M0nstrMan took a double dose of crystal meth two hours before the contest, and we can see that he's 27 frags up on his nearest opponent. WeeTimmyLeary decided to go for tabs of acid today, and he's spent the whole match crouched in a corner screaming about purple caterpillars -- he doesn't have many frags, but nobody wants to go near him, either. 1nc1inerator's joytick hand is just a bloody stump at this point, but the heroin is really helping with the pain; he hasn't slowed down."
In all the non-drug sports it come down to genetics and chance, and that's hardly fair.
I piss off bigots.
... except they don't have games! http://fakesteveballmer.blogspot.com/
Does drinking chemically-treated clean water count as cheating? Eating farm-raised meat and vegatables? Vitamin and mineral supplements? Protein shakes? Coffee and Ginseng?
Seems that all human activities will have some unnatural form of technology enhancement and the line drawn will be arbitrary.
1. if you honestly believe that's all sports comes down to, your ignorance of which you speak of is so severe you require no rebuttal
2. now, for the sake of argument, let's say you are right: sports is just genetics and chance. ok, so making it just about genetics, chance, and drugs is supposed to what, make more noble and attractive to the viewer?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Computer/console gaming can be a professional endeavor but it isn't a sport anymore than professional chess is a sport. A sport requires some degree of physical activity beyond clicking a mouse or gamepad.
I'm not taking anything away from the level of skill involved and maybe I'm just getting into the semantics too much, but I'm tired of people equating professional gaming with sports. Again, the chess analogy comes to mind.
I am always curious why drugs are considered bad because they enhance the bodyâ(TM)s natural abilities but things like glasses, earring aides, whatever are ok. Glasses allow someone whose natural ability to not see well to see just as well (or even better) then someone with normal vision. Is using LASIEK bad? Same thing. Either you are competing with what you were born and how hard you train or we use a variety of mechanical, biological, chemical techniques to be come better at something. Since we already do mechanical (glasses, better fabrics for clothes, swimsuits, etc) and we do some biological (or is it chemical) when athletes train in sealed rooms with more oxygen to raise their red blood cell count, why do we as a society draw the line with drugs?
I don't know about you, but the majority of us simply aren't built to compete in sports any more. How can I compete with Michael Phelps's body, that's designed for swimming? Sure, training helps, but the current top-level competitions are accessible only to those genetically suited for them. The Olympics might have had some relevance back in the Greek days, when you could look at the athletes and say "well, if I trained hard, I could run as fast as these guys". These days, there is no amount of training that can let me swim as fast as Phelps or run as fast as Bolt. So what's the point? All these athletes are necessarily "freaks" now, and the only way to beat them is to become a bigger freak.
Calms you down a bit so you're less nervous perhaps?
Back in my tennis days, I would play great in practice but when it came to a game - I'd choke! My teammates wanted our coach to get me to take Xanax before a game so I could play better. After a few years, I became a little calmer, but I still choked. I never took the drug during a game, though. I was afraid I'd injure myself.
If the issue has to do with unfair advantages due to drugs, they better ban ritalin and prozac and xanax and anything else that tweaks the dopamine, seratonin, or acetylcholine levels in the brain. In fact, I think if they're going to be really serious, they should make everyone fast for two days before they even let them into the convention hall. Then once they are there they are only allowed to drink water and eat soups and organic salads. I can honestly say that every "gamer" I know is on something. Either they're caffeine addicts, alcoholics or stoners. I don't associate with any tweakers but it wouldn't surprise me to find a couple of meth-addicts online at 4am racking up kills in whatever the FPS of the week is. If drug use is an issue in "professional" sports then video game playing will never be a professional sport. Or if it is, your champions are going to be seven and eight year olds who haven't ever visited a psychatrist for acting like a normal kid.
Yeah, weed is only a performance enhancer if you always practice high. Your muscle memory gets encoded in a certain state of mind then you want to be "mood congruent" during competition.
I would love to see some no-enhancers-barred events out there. I get so sick of people whining about this drug, or that procedure. Caffiene's ok, but amphetamines aren't? What about asthma inhalers? What about surgically corrected vision so your glasses don't get in the way? It's such a slippery slope that only bogus morality gives anyone the sense that there's a logical cut-off point.
And as far as the emotional connection being why people watch, well, then, the steroids, egomania, and multi-million dollar motivated professional "athletes" in baseball, basketball, etc should be alienating fans left and right.
--
-Jack the sound barrier. Bring the noise.
What does stoned mean?
if competitive gaming ever hopes to become even slightly as respected as other sporting competitions, they will need to enact drug testing, just as they do in golf, cycling, baseball and every other sport. Having certain competitors be on a different playing field because of chemical alterations is just turns people off the sport. it no longer comes down simply to skill, but rather who has the most positive reaction to the chemicals taken.
frog blast the vent core
When they noticed the player's completely blue eyes.
that taking methamphetamine and drinking clean water are comparable?
you really think that's a valid argument?
actually, i'll grant you something: there ARE grey areas. something that could be considered as a sort of enhancement/ an also be a sort of just food and nutrition
ok, but simply because it is difficult to find the spot to the draw the line coherently, does that mean that we don't draw a line at all?
this is actually a common moral quandry, how to deal with drawing a line in grey areas. and your approach is wrong. i'll disprove it in allegory...
example: should speeding be outlawed? we'll assume for the sake of argument that you believe speeding should be outlawed, that it is dangerous for other drivers
ok, now where do you draw the line? 70mph? 75mph? 80mph? 85mph? 90mph?
for each driver, each road condition, etc., you could make a case for a wide range of numbers. but you have to pick A number, and stick with it, perhaps modifying it later
but according to your philosophy, simply because picking the right number is hard, that because a grey area exists, we can't arrest the guy going 130mph
bullshit. there is a grey area. but there is also way over the line. the existence of the grey area does not allow you to excuse the guy way over the line
get it?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
I've known game server admin who are better admin stoned than sober...is that the right word...anyway
its all because they are more relaxed when something happens they dont like, ie kids mic spamming, they don't get as annoyed. When they get over annoyed they react and do things that are really over the top...
Swing it to professional gamers. Should you get killed mid-competition you are likely to get annoyed and make other mistakes in anger. The cannabis would stop you getting angry, or at least would minimise how angry you get.
People are going to try and use drugs no matter what, so I think to level the playing field, there should be a manditory steroid injections for all players. Everyone wins! (how this would help you game better Im not sure, but hey those are small details)
i had no idea human beings were chemical processes
(rolls eyes)
there is a difference between the chemical processes that genetics and training gave you and the one you injected this morning. this difference is real, and valid, and is the pivot across which investing yourself emotionally in the athlete takes place
"If it's not against the rules it's not cheating. Make drugs legal and they're no longer a cheat."
absolutely, that's a perfectly valid legal point
and i am not making a legal point. i am making a point about interest, emotional investment, empathizing with the player. that which drives interest in sports
i am saying drugs will kill that. i am making a totally different point than you are rebutting
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Computer gaming finally enters the relm of "Professional Sports"
Undetectable Steganography? Yep, there's an app fo
Rastas use herb to bring on a meditative state while they ponder their religion. I certainly know it has brought on many "zen like" states when I have been working on music or doing other activities. You are able to let go of consciousness a bit and get "in the zone" much more easily. I could see that helping in quite a few similar situations. (And who hasn't felt that "zen like" state playing games sober? You feel like you are just plowing through enemies racking up wins left and right.)
:(
Damn it is dry in my town at the moment
so everyone who is disgusted by mcguire, everyone who is disgusted with baseball for that... this is fictional? the feelings of disgust they have is a mirage?
pffft
the effect i talk about is real: people want to see a human display, they don't want to see a roid head fiction ...well actually they DO, i just thought of something: it's called professional wrestling.
its very entertaining to watch a bunch of roid heads smack each other around
BUT NO ONE CONSIDERS THAT A REAL SPORT. it's a joke, a one act play
get it?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
In all the non-drug sports it come down to genetics and chance, and that's hardly fair.
You left out the part about years of training, physical conditioning, and downright hard, hard work.
Well, since the gamers are all already petrified, all we need now are few vats of hot grits and...
wait, nevermind I don't want to ruin that.
1. going 30 mph is the same as 140 mph, right? i mean the car is moving, so it's the same, right? braindead argument
2. sure, let athletes take drugs, who cares if no one watches. i mean, its not like someone will start up a drug free league to get things like advertisers, sponsors, an audience... you know, pay the bills? pffft
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
The World Cyber Games should move to Amsterdam next year.
"Kill 'em all and let Root sort 'em out"
somethings that could be considered as a sort of enhancement/ can also be a sort of just food and nutrition. but drinking water is nowhere near like taking meth
simply because it is difficult to find the spot to the draw the line coherently, does that mean that we don't draw a line at all?
this is actually a common moral quandry, how to deal with drawing a line in grey areas. and your approach is wrong. i'll disprove it in allegory...
example: should speeding be outlawed? we'll assume for the sake of argument that you believe speeding should be outlawed, that it is dangerous for other drivers
ok, now where do you draw the line? 70mph? 75mph? 80mph? 85mph? 90mph?
for each driver, each road condition, etc., you could make a case for a wide range of numbers. but you have to pick A number, and stick with it, perhaps modifying it later
but according to your philosophy, simply because picking the right number is hard, that because a grey area exists, we can't arrest the guy going 130mph
bullshit. there is a grey area. but there is also way over the line. the existence of the grey area does not allow you to excuse the guy way over the line
get it?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
It certainly enhances the experience, but I'm quite certain it slows down my reflexes. I notice it especially in FPS games. I have a good tactical overview of the situation. I can predict where my opponents will appear, but I'm just that fraction of second to late to hit him.
I'm not an expert, but I would think Rilatin would help much more in gaming than cannabis.
Are there gamers out there with experience with rilatin+gaming?
So it's ok to alter the meaning of 'stoned' because you're familiar with it, but 'baked' is off-limits because it's new to you.
I mean, you're being ironic, right? Right?
Search the competitors as they enter the building for drugs.
At the events, don't sell/allow caffiene or other stimulant drinks to be sold.
If someone is stoned/under the influence when they come to play, disqualify them.
Simple measures, problem (for the most part) solved.
Making an effort to stamp out drugs is much better than just allowing them because you can't (won't) do anything about it is counter-productive.
As the events grow, introduce tougher measures.
Allowing people to play under the influence of drugs will ensure that pro-gaming never goes mainstream.
they are used frequently by the military, and by professional card players
and all of drink coffee, and some of us smoke: concentration enhancers
there are even new calsses of drugs called "cognition enhancers"
http://www.bio-medicine.org/medicine-news-1/Unlikely-Drugs-Emerge-as-Cognition-Enhancers-16393-2/
and to make my point perfectly clear, i have no problem with people using these in card games, or in the military. i am not making a morallistic argument
what i am making is a logistical argument: people will be less interested in watching sports if it is less about human achievement and more about biochemistry
"I don't actually think that accepting drug enhancement in a sport would drop its ratings."
i drectly contradict you. in fact, i can show you a case study: professional wrestling. everyone knows that is not real sport. and it is in fact very funny to weatch roid heads smack each other around. however, no one takes it seriously, its not a real sport, everyone watching knows that
when athletes take drugs, it completely alters the fundamental psychology of what makes watching sports appealing in the first place
and so, any sports authority that wants to retain an audience, will be waging war on drug use forever
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Just how out of touch this organization and aparently its members are with the actual gaming community. Its pretty sad really, thank god for PAX or gamers would have no outlet free from the tint of corporate whore-ism.
Ohh spiteful one tell me who to smote and he shall be smolten!
but i know its not a sport, its a one act play starring roid heads
and i also enjoy watching horror movies, and i also enjoy genuine sports
what appeals to me in each situation is different than the other
and if professional basketball, baseball, football, etc. suddenly allowed all drugs in their sports, me, and the majority of the fanbase, would turn to the drug-free sports authorities that would obviously spring into existence to satisfy audiences like me
of course, some would continue to watch the drug-enhanced basketball, baseball, fottball, etc.
they would be enjoyable jokes on par with professional wrestling, not real sports
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Have you ever taken a hard test...on weed?
should the wgc shun the drugs like the olympics or should it embrace? btw, what about enhancers, even steroids, for i.t.?
A hand up and a foot on every chest...
and this after all that progress had been made to represent video gaming as a legitimate athletic sport. I guess we can say goodbye to Olympic "Counter Strike" competitions.
but i know its not a real sport, its just a one act play starring roid heads
buyt i also enjoy watching professional drug-free baseball, and am disgusted by mcguire
what appeals to me in each situation is different than the other
and if professional baseball suddenly allowed all drugs in their sports, me, and the majority of the fanbase, would turn to the drug-free sports authorities that would obviously spring into existence to satisfy audiences like me
if you ask why audiences like me exist, you still don't understand what the fundamental appeal of sports is in the first place, the empathy of being human and seeing human achievement. not engineering
of course, some would continue to watch the drug-enhanced baseball
they would be enjoyable jokes on par with professional wrestling, not real sports
and i won't even address your continued point about all life being chemical. if you can't understand there is a difference between drinking a glass of water and taking methamphetamine, you are simply out of touch with the real issue here
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
A lot of gamers are stoners to begin with. It's not so much about performance enhancement as just being stoned like normal. I used to be that way and don't miss it. Now I know my singing performance on Rock Band exponentially increases per every shot or beer I consume as long as everybody else is keeping up with me they'll tell you the same! haha
I should know, I've been smoking it for thirty eight years. ;)
i'm talking about drugs in sports
if you allow drugs in sports, then audiences will turn away
that's all i'm saying. that's the beginning of my point, that's the end of my point
you're talking about a completely different subject
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Tried playing Halo 2 online after smoking a ton of weed.
I have to tell you it did make me a better player.
If by better player you mean getting fraged by anyone remotely non-retarded and older than two years old while laughing uncontrollably into my headset. I believe I set an all time record for number of deaths in a single match. I think near then end I just ran away from people screaming in laughter as they just picked me off. It was an awful lot of fun however.
Why are we even dignifying this? 'Professional--lol--Gamers' are the new thing in the global sports doping epidemic? This is ridiculous. OH NOES, THEY'RE HIGH AND THEY'RE PLAYING VIDEOGAMES FOR MONEY! Why does anyone care? And I don't even mean from the perspective I have on the sports doping which is "Fuck it, it's their body, let them fuck it up if they want to.", I'm speaking from the perspective of "Why in the name of all that is more important than this (basically...everything) does anyone care about professional gamers playing while on drugs?" Why does anyone care about professional gaming to BEGIN with? It's just an organized tournament for an otherwise normal form of competitive entertainment. These have been around forever.
What next? People are going to lose their minds over kids playing in Pokemon CCG tourneys on a sugar high, or off their ritalin?
Tournament Scrabble players who undergo experimental brain surgery to become idiot savants? (Actually, that would make a cool cyberpunk story)
Look around! Do we really a) Have nothing more important to bitch about, or b) Not care about anything more important? I mean REALLY!
Friend: "The NIC is misconfigured..." Me: "No prob, I'll just telnet in and fix it." *Silence*
If the professional gaming leagues ever do end up bending to the status quo and actually banning drugs, then if the gamers feel strongly enough about it, they should create their own league and let the people decide which they prefer.
Personally, I think these rules have more to do with a desire to be seen as politically mainstream, and that there is no real concern about "fairness".
May the Maths Be with you!
watching a one act play starring roid heads is quite amusing and enjoyable
but its not considered a real sport, its considered a joke
as for body building, i would peg the appeal of that as something different from watching, say, a basketball game
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
... I'd expect to see Ritalin, asthma inhalants, growth hormones, and blood serum additives.
Have gnu, will travel.
because, forever, there will be the outer edge of human technological discovery. at this bleeding edge is where you will find the performance enhancements you need in the endless arms race to outdo all of the performance enhancements your competitors are making
as such, people will always be trying dangerous and untested methods that will wind up with a lot of brain damaged, cancer ridden, or wheelchair bound young burnouts from sports where enhancement is legal
so it will never be legal, because no one will ever find this acceptable
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
wtf is an 'e-sport?'
I thought "drugs" in videogames meant some 1337z h4x0rz fsck up the game executable in such a manner as to give themselves an edge over other players in a network game. The solution is clear. Legalize all drugs and have the government distribute them for free. Within a year, all the drug lords go bankrupt (why would anyone pay for drugs when they're free?!). Besides, all the drug addicts will die from taking massive amounts suddenly (since they'll use plenty more than before) and then there won't be a market even for free drugs. It's Darwin at work. Survival of the fittest.
McCain/Palin '08. Now THAT's hope and change!
Weed improves your reflexes.
Who knew?
howabout poker?
any game of sufficient mental agility and complexity, without a traditional physical aspect, can be considered to be a sport
besides, history is against you. go to japan, korea, taiwan: that is the future, where videogames are afforded the same level of media coverage, fame, and salaries as professional athletic sports in the usa
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
go in the opposite direction and "require" everyone to take drugs to enhance their gaming experience. That would level the field also.
Who really cares, except for some people trying to make money consulting and vending on this topic ?
Reminds me of the story "Dogfight" in William Gibson's "Burning Chrome" collection - story written by Gibson and Michael Swanwick
I know why people play these games under the influence. I've been a regular cannabis user for approximately 5 years now. I've played in about 7 or 8 Guitar Hero tournaments(school/bar sponsored, nothing huge) and i think every time I've met up with mary jane before hand. I've won a couple of them, usually place in the top 3. It can help relax for sure. The article was correct that it can put you in a trance state to help focus on the notes. So that effect is definitely a bonus in music-type games. I don't think it helps at all in strategy games. When I play DOTA, the THC never really seems to help skills, but always makes the game more awesome. So i think it can clear your mind to help with focusing and reflexes, but can run you into trouble if your game makes you think too hard. So, I dunno, if people wanna rip the bong before a tournament, I don't really care. It'll make it more fun for them I'm sure.
Actually, I used to write the play-by-play and color commentary for the Madden NFL series at EA, so I know the John Madden voice pretty well. No shit, check it out.
"Now, ya see what he did here? 1nc1nerator thought M0nstrMan was gonna come through this gap, but M0nstrMan just gave him a little twitch-fake, and BOOM, suddenly he's eatin' raw plasma."
I piss off bigots.
But if I'm wrong, take heart! Ctrl-Z is just two keypresses away!
I know a guy who was diagnosed with ADHD and prescribed Adderall (an amphetamine.) We play FPS games from time to time, and I can definitely tell when he's off his meds. When he's on the Adderall he frags the living bejeesus out of everyone in the game, if he's off it he's just an average player. So would he be disqualified from these "e-sports" events?
I believe I speak for everyone here when I say "No shit, Sherlock!"
Anybody want my mod points?
I can say, with a high degree of certainty and server statistics to back it up, that I am a much better Sniper in TF2 when I have drank >5 beers and
I would think it's just because everyone else is drinking too, but I've done this consistently over the months on different days of the week, and different times of the day (morning, afternoon, night).
Pedantic point, but it's likely that the participant took amphetamine (speed), not amphetamines (MDMA et al). I don't know of any amphetamines that would be beneficial to gaming.
For anyone interested, in my extensive research:
Cannabis makes you better at shooters, especially Counter-Strike.
Speed makes you better at racers and shooters to a small extent.
Alcohol makes you better at racers but not shooters (go figure).
MDMA (ecstasy) makes you awesome at Tony Hawks.
Ampetamines, new alertness drugs, beta blockers.
"Chemically-enhanced" soldiers.
Make sure you're ecstasy before competing.
For what it's worth, this is analogous to a well known psychological effect known as state-dependent recall.
The effect specifically refers to the improved retrieval from long term memory experienced when the memory retrieval takes place in the same mind-state (in this example, of drug influence) that the memory was deposited in....
But my own experience of gaming while stoned will attest to a very similar (and strikingly simple) revelation, not strictly limited to memory retrieval: When you learn to play a game stoned, you play that game better while stoned.
why wouldn't you want to make him into an escape goat?
then you could ride your grammar-nazi ass on outta town on him!
(I think you meant scapegoat)
because now it is not a display of human mastery, now it is a display of biochemical mastery
So....things like eating? sleeping? training in the mountains? sleeping in hyperbolic chambers?
Aren't those biochemical process triggers also? Or do those not count?
The problem with your line of reasoning is that someone has to draw the lines on what is and isn't allowed. When you do that, you - by default - prohibit certain things that other people will think are fine. And now you are back to the same problem. You haven't answered or fixed anything.
Arms race is right. More like "we're trying to ignore the fact that we CAN make humans better through enhancements. If we just ignore it, it will go away and we can just get back to the purity of the game!". Nonsense. The cat is out of the bag and has been for 30+ years.
If you are so sure that a sport can't last with enhancements allowed, then riddle me this: Why are WWE Wrestling, Powerlifting, Pro Football, Pro Baseball, and countless other high performance sports so successful? All of them have known, documented case of drugs/doping/supplementing/enhancing. All of them (sans Powerlifting) are very popular and remain so.
I'd argue, part of a sport's success, is because of the enhancements. Natural, non-natural, doped, roided, or otherwise. That's what produces the "home runs" and that's what the fans ultimately want. If it can be done safely, the fans will get what they want (eventually). The rest is just educating/updating people's thinking of what "sports training" is. It's changed a lot from the 1950's so there is no reason we can't update it again.
In a skill based game, your chances of winning aren't 1/2... Unless WC3 is what you call flipping a coin... War Coin III!
Join the Empire! http://www.empirereborn.net/
i thought this was just HIGHlarious. im not a regular smoker and mostly play games sober. but in the instances that im chillin with friends and i end up joining the 'rotation', then we turn to videogames-i do in fact play better than i usually do. i have noticed a difference in my play based on whether im 'high' or 'stoned' as well and for those uneducated folks out there, yes there is a difference between the two :P
by drawing a line, i am cutting through a gray area, and outlawing things many people think are fine
and somehow this approach is inferior to drawing no line at all, and allowing things that even the athletes themselves would second guess were they a little older and not obsessed with a race to glory? that is, if they got a little older, and weren't dead of the side effects of doing the kinds of things which no person with the slightest moral code would allow
this is your world of drawing no lines
its inferior to cutting through the grey area with a line
somethings that could be considered as a sort of enhancement/ can also be a sort of just food and nutrition: a gray area. but drinking water is nowhere near like taking meth
simply because it is difficult to find the spot to the draw the line coherently, does that mean that we don't draw a line at all?
this is actually a common moral quandry in many issues, how to deal with drawing a line in grey areas. and your approach is wrong. i'll disprove it in allegory...
example: should speeding be outlawed? we'll assume for the sake of argument that you believe speeding should be outlawed, that it is dangerous for other drivers
ok, now where do you draw the line? 70mph? 75mph? 80mph? 85mph? 90mph?
for each driver, each road condition, etc., you could make a case for a wide range of numbers. but you have to pick A number, and stick with it, perhaps modifying it later as caretechnology and road conditions improve
but according to your philosophy, simply because picking the right number is hard, that because a grey area exists, we can't arrest the guy going 130mph
bullshit. there is a grey area. but there is also way over the line. the existence of the grey area does not allow you to excuse the guy way over the line
get it?
i'll repeat: the existence of the grey area does not allow you to excuse the guy way over the line
so you cut through the grey area, you make the hard choice. because the hard choice is superior to no choice and allowing far far worse
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
...seen the movie Frag? It was shown at Quakecon, and took a real good look at professional gaming. They covered this, they covered sponsors and tournament directors who would screw people insofar as their pay, and a hell of a lot more.
LOLZ! I have had such a shitty day at work, but picturing you dancing around some guy yelling "He's a Fed!" over & over in a Monty Python "she's a witch" type voice... that has made my day :P
jred
I'm not a mechanic but I play one in my garage...
FRAG, a recently released documentary about competetive and professional gaming covers this topic with interviews and comentary from top players and journalists in the sport.
I would recommend anyone who is interested in this topic or gaming in general to go buy this movie.
www.fragmovie.com
...but we're talking about individual (sports) performance enhancement, right? Remember, the context of my post was regarding sports performance enhancement. We only differ in the method of enhancement.
I ask because cars are a totally different analogy with clear and obvious societal implications. There are obvious reasons we draw lines there. But we don't and shouldn't draw lines everyplace there is an opportunity to do so. We don't do that with Art. We don't do that with Music. We do do that for Engineering (for good reason). We do do that for Doctors (again, for good reason). There are countless examples on both sides. In some places, lines are needed. In others, they are not.
But lines on how far one can improve their own human sports performance? I don't get why not.
You bely your true intentions with your comment, "...which no person with the slightest moral code would allow"
I get it now. You have a moral problem with the method of enhancement.
On that sir, we'll just have to disagree. I believe people are smart enough to make their own choices in this area. In fact, I am 100% certain.
Careful, with that strategy, you'll likely OD.
I was referring to professional sports. When you get paid millions to play a game you love, it's not only worth the hard work, but you're doing something RIGHT.
I had some friends (today respectable programmers, lawyers, etc..) who came to my lan party with small aliminium (aliminum for you d*mn americans) foil packs containing MDA (speed, meta-amhetmamine). They played Need For Speed and Quake a lot faster than they would normally, and when everyone was dead at 3am, they were pushing a 65th round and still be loud and happy.
No this is not a drug commercial, but this is a fact: some drugs enhance your reflexes, skill, libido, conciousness, imagination ... etc.
Should I say "legalize it"? . No. I also had (educated) friends who got hooked on MDA, and were arrested in his own apartment kicking (hitting) the hell outta his stuff. But there is in fact reasonable and responsible drug use that should be considered by (non US) governments.
i.e. A joint makes you think and can be a positive thing. 2gms of MDA can kill all your braincells and make you a lunatic breaking stuff and kill people.
ahm .... I had a stressy day and had 2 cuba libres ... whatever
"came in "baked" (that's stoned for the uninformed)"
Does anyone who doesn't know what baked is know what stoned is? Shouldn't the clarification possibly have been "under the influence of cannabis" or whatever drug in question - or simply "under the influence"?
I have spoken'eth.
In my experience, the biggest hurdle at these events is a psychological one. You have done all the practice and are not likely to get any better then you are in the next few hours, but trying to remain calm and focused can be quite difficult, playing at a tournament is quite a lot different to playing at home (in your parents basement of course) or at a LAN with friends. There can be quite a lot of money riding on these tournaments and unless you are a tourney veteran you will most probably be affected by nerves which can totally throw your game.
Anything that can calm you down and keep you focused on the task at hand will be of great benefit, if weed is what you are used to then I can see how that would be "performance enhancing".
At the WCG I attended some form of Beta Blocker use was common, according to players the slowing of the heart rate was quite beneficial.
A lot of the FPS games are constantly referred to as "twitch games" but that is the view of the inexperienced and quite the opposite of how the top gamers play. Things might be happening at great speed but it is knowledge, tactics and focus (remaining calm) that wins the match.
I wasn't too surprised to read this thread, but coke and weed? Come on . . .
There are a lot of pro poker players who are known to pop Ritalin before big tournaments to keep their focus, most of the time gotten perfectly legally.
I could assume it would also help a lot with computer gamers, especially RTS players.
Touche' - hyperbaric, not hyperbolic.
That would be an interesting sight, wouldn't it? haha
for success in sports, you get lots of money, lots of fame, lots of chicks, etc.
this puts a huge incentive on someone to modify if modifications are allowed. all things being equal then, the winner becomes the guy who modifies the most. to max out on your modifications, you have to go to some modifications on the bleeding edge of tech and biochem, whose side effects are unknown
young cocky athletes who think they're immortal, in an environment where modifications are allowed, leads to what?
it leads to young athletes cripped, dead, cancer ridden, etc
and like the roman audiences watching gladiators, you are complicit in their maming and death, because you pay for tickets to watch these malformations compete, which makes a mountain of cash that encourages them to modify
do you still honestly believe your position is defensible?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
It's not just defensible, it's happening right in front of you.
You can fearmonger all you want about the excesses but you have not addressed my point at all. You want to limit what people can and can't do with their own bodies because you think they will become arrogant to their own peril. What if they don't? What if, instead, everyone used it responsibly? (in ideal-world). Would that change your position?
Under your reasoning, cosmetic surgery for movie stars (or anyone who seeks fame/fortune) would not be allowed because it enhances their performance onscreen. Don't you get it? For 10's of thousands of years, mankind has been looking for ways to improve himself in every aspect of his being. Sure, there are always going to be excesses (just like there are with anything). But the overall trend of increasing improvements is not going to change.
Just look at what we've done with ourselves through improved nutrition. We've been very successful with agriculture over that time and look how much healthier/enhanced we are compared to our ancient ancestors. Now, we are starting to begin to understand things on a biological level. The applications are endless in that area and the sports performance aspect is a very very small piece of this larger puzzle. You want to stop technology for moral reasons. You can try but history says you're going to be wrong.
"Under your reasoning, cosmetic surgery for movie stars (or anyone who seeks fame/fortune) would not be allowed because it enhances their performance onscreen."
cosmetic surgery is well-understood in terms of risks/ complications
you want to depend upon the crystal clear ultraresponsible reasoning skills of 19 year olds with reams of cash and power and fame and women when offered procedures of unknown side-effects
you can't think of an example where we allow people to take those kinds of risks for the sake of frivolous entertainment because such an example doesn't exist: unlike you, people understand how they have a responsibility in this area
"You want to limit what people can and can't do with their own bodies because you think they will become arrogant to their own peril."
this is laughable
#1: what people are doing with their bodies is directly related to what they are getting out of my interaction with what they do with those bodies. i am involved. i can't pretend i'm not
#2: i don't think they will become arrogantr to their own peril, i KNOW they will
we are talking about teenagers, these athletes. you had 100% solid reasoning skills in regard to taking care of yourself when you were 19? if fame money chicks and power were thrown at you?
you wish to absolve me, and yourself, if the responsibility of what people do to themselves BECAUSE OF WHAT WE OFFER THEM FOR DOING THAT
you can't remove yourself from the equation. these deicsions aren't bering made in a vacuum. they are being doone under the duress of our desire for entertainment. we are involved. go ahea,d pretend we are not. all you are effectively doing is removing a sense of morality and a human conscience from your line of reasoning, thereby rendering your line of reaosning null and void
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
reseearcher discovers drug X. drug X makes mice run 2x faster than regular mice. you don't know anything else yet about drug X
do you allow a 19 year old to take drug X?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
How about a REAL example, huh?
Try this one on: testosterone. aka steroids.
We know it can enhance men's sports performance. We also know the many of the side effects. This particular enhancement has been around for 100 years. Some choose to take them, some don't. In other words, adults -all over the sports world- are deciding for themselves whether to use the enhancement or not. (and yes, I know some organizations legislatively ban them from competition. most don't)
Do you wish to restrict steroids from sports?
If you say yes, you are forced to answer why. We've already been through that and concluded it's based on moral grounds.
If you say no, then you make my point (and are actually in agreement with my arguments).
and i'll answer yours
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
I have never seen soo many false assumptions, flat out lies, and pure ignorance in one Slashdot thread until now. Where are you guys getting your cannabis information from, Harry J. Anslinger and 'Reefer Madness'?
The first guy who was positively controlled was a shooter who took a glass before the competition to steady his hand ...