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Asus To Phase Out Sub-10" Eee PCs
jeevesbond writes "The Register reports that Asus president Jerry Shen has revealed his company will be phasing out all sub-10" Eee PCs. According to Shen, the 'standard' netbook next year will be a 10" model with a hard drive running XP. Shen also said XP is outselling GNU/Linux on netbooks by a ratio of 7:3. This is somewhat contrary to news from the UK earlier in the year that GNU/Linux units were out of stock while XP machines sat unsold. Are Brits more open-minded than the rest of the world when it comes to choosing an OS?"
So I'll be going with the netbook with the most features when I am purchasing.
"Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
... did they overship Linux pcs by a ratio of 6:4?
How many people buy the XP models and subsequently install Ubuntu or some other Linux distro though? For reasons of better RAM or Drive or battery option availability in the XP bundled version of the machine.
Who'da thunk the ratio would be so close?
And since only a few percentage of computers ship with high-end graphics cards, we should just eliminate them altogether. Makes sense now that we're living in the twilight zone. 30% of your userbase asks for something? Who cares!
Twinstiq, game news
I sat posting this on my XP-equipped EeePC 901. Why XP? Because I can't find the Linux version at any store around my area. Whenever I ask whether they'll offer the Linux versions, store managers invariably answer "we won't offer them, they won't sell, people are afraid of non-Windows machine". Can you say chicken and egg?
Oh and yes, and another thing, the Linux GUIs offered on netbooks are designed for retards. That's also perhaps geeks don't buy them. When I have a minute, I'll install Debian on mine, but even if I had managed to find the Linux Eee, I'd have zapped the original distro.
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
In my country, only XP models are available. All the retail networks here buy them from one or two importers, who only provide XP models.
That way, they can charge for them almost as much as for real laptops.
Wasn't this clear from the beginning, when they only started offering XP as a choice? Soon you won't be able to run Linux on them at all, not without tricks like ndiswrapper at least...
If Linux is free, and can support any platform x86 or otherwise (not using x86 can save even more money), it has a future on the sub notebook PC. I don't expect the companies in China and else where to care, not as long as they can charge less and tempt customers to buy their goods. Its still selling on dells etc (even after over a year) and if Asus don't satisfy the market some else will.
...it's so hard to find a Linux one.
I searched the computer retailers of Melbourne for 3 weeks before I found one that had a Linux 901 in stock, and bought their last one.
Memo to the geniuses of retail: customers can't buy if you don't have stock.
Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum videtur (anything said in Latin sounds important)
"Are Brits more open-minded than the rest of the world when it comes to choosing an OS?"
Here's a novel thought. Some may prefer a Microsoft OS. Bringing up "but they're closed minded because they didn't pick what I wanted them to pick" just makes your side look bad.
Shai Schticks:"You don't make peace with friends, you make peace with enemies"
Maybe it's cclonlone.com's user base but while waiting to purchase one the Linux versions were always going faster.
Even if I wanted XP I'd get the Linux version and then install Windows on it to get the extra storage.
Contrary, huh? Out of stock could mean the supply was low. Who in their right mind would _overestimate_ sales of Linux clients?
Sitting on shelves could mean they shipped more than enough. Without knowing how much of each shipped, WTF is the point? Guaranteed, they shipped assloads more with XP than Linux. We just throw supply out the window and pretend demand for Linux is uber high here??
Look, Linux needs to take off on its own merits, not with silly twisted theories on Slashdot where things are cheerier than they really are. Linux & OSS are going to start getting some black eyes if you all keep pretending it's something it's not.
He was not talking about sales, he was talking about preloads. Digitimes has the actual quote:
This contradicts common sense but not the fact that XP EEEPCs don't fly off shelves.
I don't work for free. I never will - I rather become an electrician than consider becoming a linux developer. My 2c worth! I worked very hard for this career - you don't like it, then sell your computer and watch TV.
Who says Linux devs work for free? Do you know what we pay for LabView on Linux? Or what I am willing to pay for Photoshop?
It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
Considering that Linux has just about zero advertising, and that people who choose it are embarking on something new and different to them. No, 30% is not bad at all. It will only go up as Linux gets tweaked to run better on this kind of hardware.
I would buy one with Linux installed if given the choice, but would immediately install ubuntu's netbook edition or eeebuntu or whatever seems to be the going version of the moment.
like phosphorescent desert buttons singing one familiar song
And obviously anyone that ever contributes code to any F/OSS project never gets paid, especially not the people that work at Google, IBM, Red Hat or Novell
Looks like their going to lose sales then. The schools I'm in charge of find the smaller ones better for the students. It's used as an appliance to type, print and for some web browsing. If we wanted a larger sized machine with a hard drive and XP then we'll just buy standard notebooks. If they give us no options in the size we want then we'll just buy several hundred of them from another manufacturer. -JM
> I don't work for free. I never will - I rather become an electrician than consider becoming a linux developer
I've got paid for developing software for Linux. There are software companies that write software just for Linux. Just because Linux is free doesn't mean that you could get money when writing software for it.
Also if you must write software for Windows, you can still do it with free cross platform libraries and get support for other platforms for free. Sometimes you can even save in development when choosing these libraries, because they are so good.
At work I use Windows because I'm asked to. At home I use Linux. I write software at work for the company, but at home I write it for the world.
The XP version at 699 sits next to linux version at 599. Buyer says, blimey! the bloody staff mismarked! and runs out with the 599 "steal". Once home, he soon realizes he was the sucker and back he and it go. This is the "Wallmart experience" of Linux machines.
That is just about the polar opposite of my experience. XP is showing its age because shoe-horning it onto an eeepc 901 was a horrible task. The installer is just dumb and can't handle anything but a CD-drive, which I don't have.
I then used the incredible unetbootin to try out a bunch of linux distros from USB sticks and even an SDcard, finally settling on intrepid. Unfortunately it didn't quite "just work" because of the wireless card. (Big surprise)
The netbook platform is unique I feel in not needing the usual windows baggage anyway.
Are Brits more open-minded than the rest of the world when it comes to choosing an OS?
Microsoft's Lock-In strategies have stopped working in Europe, thanks to European Commission's efforts to make Microsoft play by fair rules.
The largest prime factor of my UID is 263267.
Sadly, the truth is that when it comes to an appliance like a netbook, I fundamentally do not care what OS it runs so long as the performance is adequate and all the applications I actually need run on it. Thunderbird? Check. Firefox? Check. OOo 3? Check. Java 6? Check. The fact is, FOSS has in a real sense shot Linux in the foot by running so well on XP/Server 2003. While XP is available, this will continue. Vista, now...that would be a different matter. If I was limited to Vista, I wouldn't want to try to run on a single Atom CPU.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
Where I live the Linux versions of the eeepc 901 are impossible to get, Asus simply refuses to release them. They give no reasons, but it is well known that MS have been very active in negotiating with vendors like Asus in trying to curb Linux version sales. It is interesting to note in this regard how MS has backed down on their "maximum 80GB hdd" for using MS-XP, since Asus are selling 120GB XP version of their eeepc's.
Anyway, I find it impressive that Linux sales amounts to a whopping 30% of the eeepc's.
--
Regards
I thought half the draw of the Eee PC wasn't just the price but the size. Why are they going closer and closer to the size of regular laptops and away from the 8" size?
If they had released a 7" model without the huge bezel around the scree I might have picked one up. Looks like I'll be looking to one of their competitors.
Aside from the Linpus OS, at least Acer doesn't easily roll over and die when it comes to Microsoft. Honestly, these companies have a chance to compete in the same place Apple is, but they're choosing to play it safe with Microsoft rather than create an environment that would be far superior for them. Yes, its partially the fault of poorly trained salespeople, and poorly targetted and marketed products. So fix that. /typed on an aspire one running linux.
Windows XP installs quickly,
1. Does it matter for Joe Sixpack how much time does XP take to install if Joe Sixpack doesn't do the install himself?
runs that software
2. If Joe Sixpack uses Internet Exporer because he doesn't know there is another browser, why should he care about using Firefox instead? Same could be said for the rest.
doesn't crash much, and with newer security measures is unlikely to get infected.
3. With the right drivers you mean. But Joe Sixpack didn't install Windows so he doesn't care about that does he? ;)
and with newer security measures is unlikely to get infected.
4. I would be surprised to learn about netbooks shipping with SP3. If they aren't then they are unlikely to get infected if 'getting infected' means the stock Norton antivirus tells you so.
For Linux to compete, it should aim at producing distributions that support as much hardware as XP, have similar friendly installations, and possibly -- dear god did I say it -- run XP software, because win32 is the biggest software base in the world and it's what users want.
5. Ubuntu 7.10 supported my computer's driver infinitely better than the stock Windows XP version. I had to download the drivers using Ubuntu and move them onto the Windows partition.
6. The setup is as friendly if not friendlier.
7. Wine anybody?
8. Have you actually tried Ubuntu 8.04?
When ideas fail, words become very handy.
I took my Dad over to a store near us that had a variety of them. I was excited to show him Linux running on one until we discovered that it was completely locked up. The mouse would move but otherwise it was dead. He seemed to think the XP versions were cool. Not sure why he wasn't impressed with the greatness of Linux and its legendary stability. At least he was more impressed with them then he was by the Apple section.
My local Porsche dealer is out of stock on their Carrera GTs. Meanwhile, the Ford dealer still has plenty of Fiestas on their lot. May I assume that the GT is outselling the Fiesta?
Have gnu, will travel.
How can an OS called 'Linpus' inspire confidence in scared ignorant consumers! At least Ubuntu doesn't sound like the glowing yellow stuff leaking out of giant servers at Linus' house.
like phosphorescent desert buttons singing one familiar song
Maybe they can't find the Linux versions, since XP is outselling them. Hence, they will ship more of what is selling.
The fact that they are dropping the linux distro version is de facto evidence that they are not selling as well.
Supply and demand. If the demand was so high for the linux versions, they would be SHIPPING more. That's the bottom line, whatever sells, is what the companies ship. It's not like Asus doesn't know how to market a computer, build a computer, or ship computers, they are one of the largest OEM's out there. Anyone second guessing them needs a shot in the arm of some serious reality.
Sucks, to be sure. I like Linux. BUT, like most people, I tire of the endless "getting something to work". I also tire of the constant "That's not what I've seen with (insert MS OS here)....". XP / Vista works. Just use some decent hardware, stop trying to get your bleeding edge graphics card or 1999 ATI PCI card to work, and you won't have NEAR the problems.
And for the "rebooting" necessary when installing MS OS's, get over it. It really causes problems because you have to reboot 2 or 3 times when installing?
And lastly, WTF is this "Windows sucks, because after I install everything I want, it takes FOREVER to boot up"... That's the fault of the software, not the underlying OS.
Ubuntu takes JUST as long as XP on identical hardware, after installing only a few programs on either one. Basic, simple, fact of life. Just because you can fork a process to background when booting up (I ran across forking the networking to background on Ubuntu to speed up boot process..... Sure, it works, and also requires me to wait up to 30 seconds after the login screen appears to have NETWORKING... Hence, it takes another 30 seconds AFTER the login screen appears to be an actual capable o/s (I use it for file serving as well as a basic living room PC)).
Sheesh. Common sense prevails.
--Toll_Free
That article, and the one it links to, are misquoting an answer to a conference call question with investors regarding if the netbooks under 10" where competing with the sales of their notebooks over 10". He said no, accept with their very small market for 11" notebooks. He also said nothing about increasing the amount of linux or windows. Just the raw number regarding what was sold.
Look for the audio recording of the conference call.
Fore hose this post, they are just baiting the linux community on slashdot.
Living in Chile
But for the your average person, what makes a computer valuable to them is their favorite software.
Which for the vast majority of computer users is the only software they ever use: IE, Outlook Express, and Minesweeper.
Dear Asus,
I write this post on a Xubuntu eeePC 1000 (originally a Linux eee).
My previous computer? An Asus. Before that? An Asus. Before that? An Asus. Before that? You guessed it right, an Asus. On these old cases I accepted paying the microsoft tax mainly because, at that time, Linux was not enough for all my desktop needs. Now Linux is more than enough for my desktop needs, actually it is even better than the MS stuff you are forcing on your costumers (costumers which should be your first priority).
My next computer? Surely one that does not force me to pay an MS tax. By the looks of it, you have lost a once loyal costumer.
If you look at NewEgg for Asus B202 desktop, you can ONLY find the XP version. WTF?
I picked up the 120 gig Acer Aspire One last week since my 701 conked out on the display. My question: Why don't they offer a Linux version with the 120 gig or 160 gig drive? I bought the XP version since I know I was going to run out of space on the SSD drive. I actually enjoyed using the Xandros linux distro on the 701, but was dismayed to find out it wasn't free to install on another computer. Would have loved to continued using Linux on the Aspire one, but not with a small hard drive.
We have to find a way for XP to stop steamrolling every pro-Linux operation that shows up.
How about selling ARM-powered handheld computers that run Linux? These might be Android smart phones, Pandora gaming PDAs, or anything else that doesn't have Intel inside. Good luck trying to port Windows Mobile to all these.
Sorry, that's wrong. I installed XP on my eeepc from a USB stick without any difficulty. Of course, since I have the old 7" model with a 2gb SSD, I spent quite a bit of time beforehand with nLite, ripping the guts out of XP. Making my flash drive bootable and then installing XP from it took very little time, in comparison.
If you're really having problems figuring out how to make XP install from a USB drive, you can skip the hassle of doing it manually by using the MultiBoot utility provided by the wonderful folks over at BootLand.
Not only is Qt under the GPL, you can also link to it if you use any of a whole bunch of licenses.
Qt is not free to develop with? funny because it being under gpl says differently. Sure if your trying to make a proprietary product then you'll run into problems, but you can develop your program at zero cost, then either use a GPL compatible license for your product (nothing says you cant sell it) or pay for a license.
IranAir Flight 655 never forget!
I don't think so. There are too many Linux applications that are x86 specific. x86 architecture is fine, just, there needs to be a Linux equivilent to a Mac. (and no, OSX is not valid.)
No, they don't "prefer"... they are "used to". Big difference.
The problem is one of familiarity. XP sells because it is what most people remember how to use and think that anything that _isn't_ XP is somehow going to take 300 years to figure out.
And trust me when I say.. your love of XP while working on Linux is not the rule... In spite of the "everyone I know loves XP" anecdote (which I'm sure is the response to the statement.)
It's the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man.
Oh and yes, and another thing, the Linux GUIs offered on netbooks are designed for retards. That's also perhaps geeks don't buy them. When I have a minute, I'll install Debian on mine, but even if I had managed to find the Linux Eee, I'd have zapped the original distro.
Have you considered Ubuntu Eee, based on Ubuntu Netbook Remix?
I've not seen anyone use Outlook Express for a long time. They use Internet Explorer for their email - via a webmail service. I guess that's why Windows 7 isn't going to ship with an email client.
But only because I had to - stupid canadian stores seem to stock little else. Upon getting home it gets it's drive wiped and stuffed with Mandriva, which works like a charm. So I guess I am responsible for being a seven, even though I really wanted to be among the three.
Better usability will help with acceptance. Usability is better than it's ever been, but it's still fairly bad, and there are lots more people who know how to hack around XP usability problems than know how to hack around Linux usability problems, which means that even in cases where Linux in theory does better, in practice it doesn't.
Secondly, we really need Free Hardware. The OLPC is really cool, but it's not Free Hardware - only the software is Free. Of course you know Free::Freedom, not Free::$0. The OLPC would be a great platform if it weren't completely captive to the OLPC project. If we had open source specs for a decent laptop, getting it manufactured wouldn't be all that hard, and Microsoft doesn't have any control over fabs in China and Taiwan - it would be difficult if not impossible for them to exert any real leverage there, since the fabs aren't their customers.
Nope. It's just what's been forced upon them.
Usually, the changes from the last version of shovelware aren't
bad enough that they drive away people en masse. However,
Microsoft managed to outdo themselves with that last version of
office.
Then there are the security issues with IE and Windows in general.
If you support others, that quickly wears on you and you tend to
come to appreciate Firefox.
Add a few other basic things (which are there now) and you have
what most people need.
After 10 years of resistance, IE security issues and the trainwreck
that is Office 2007 have finally convinced the wife to run Linux at
home. She even makes her youtube remixes with it (kino).
Something not Microsoft probably throws people out of their comfort zone.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Most likely in Asus eyes, linux is linux is linux. What i've heard is that the eee pc that runs linux runs some weird distro like mandrake or something. Its not surprising it didn't turn out to be very popular. If they installed Ubuntu, it would probably be atleast 50/50.
That said, XP is NOT A BAD OS. Id say its easily the best windows ver out there. If it were vista vs ubuntu, it would probably be no contest.
It currently points back to this thred.
It's all about the information. And what we do with it.
If they had released a 7" model without the huge bezel around the scree I might have picked one up.
The keyboard width can never be greater than the screen width plus the screen bezel width. How do you think you would type on such a tiny PC? I have an Eee 900 with an 8.9" screen, and I had a bit of trouble adapting to its small keyboard. Or were you expecting something like the patented Matias Half Keyboard ($150)?
When I bought my eee 10', Linux was not available, so much about freedom of choosing.
I managed to sell the WinXP licence though.
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
shed some light. im posting from a eeepc 901.
i really love the OS. a 7 hour battery is the norm for me, and th.e ability to take the thing damned near anywhe,brre has saved my skin several times as im a sysadmin.
for those of us americans, hit best buy and chances are they still have the 901 and its 10" counterpart. try them both out and im sure you agree, the initial feel and look of the 10" is way more comfortable than the 901, or so i thought. i chose the 901 because of the mobility factor and supreme battery life.
phasing out the 10" imho is due to the average comfort factor. the linux os that ships and the keyboard size combined are probably a knockout for the average consumer who doesnt know the difference between memory and disk space.
Good people go to bed earlier.
For Linux to compete, it should aim at producing distributions that support as much hardware as XP
XP? You mean that OS with the sick joke installer that asks for a *FLOPPY DISK* to install to a SATA hard disk?
GM did that with the EV1 electric car, you never even saw them at the dealers, then they went "see, no one wants an electric car!" And you couldn't even buy them, lease only with no purchase option at the end. And now they are a decade and change behind Toyota and the Prius, have to get billions in bailout money to keep from going bankrupt, and their bloatware Volt they claim they will be selling will cost twice as much (projected cost). Sometimes corporations are just epic fail dumb.
The idea that it is a common belief here may be one of your own making (Twitter alone may account for half of the usernames that you think are accusing people of astroturfing).
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
Not sure why you got modded Flamebait, since you gave a nod to the Linux Backtrack 3. Well I guess I am going to get modded down too, since I am using the XP version of ASUS Eee PC EPC1000HA. It has much brighter screen than my bosses 701. The screen is NICE, wish it was 1024x800 but 1024x600 is not bad. The 10" NetBook *IS* more functional, for starters the hard drive is big enough to fully patch XP without having to delete apps. I am running 2GB with every program I need to work and travel. ASUS is clearly learning, and adjusting to the demand, thats not called a bias, its called a Business.
Sorry, that's wrong. I installed XP on my eeepc from a USB stick without any difficulty. Of course, since I have the old 7" model with a 2gb SSD, I spent quite a bit of time beforehand with nLite, ripping the guts out of XP. Making my flash drive bootable and then installing XP from it took very little time, in comparison.
You've managed to make Windows harder to install and get running than Linux. Kudos!
HP's Atom laptop, although crap compared to a possible VN-based 2133 upgrade, will come with Linux in january, with 2GB of RAM (compared to 512MB) for 379$ (20$ less than the 0.5GB XP model).
Linux won't be completely eliminated from netbooks. But imho Asus was never in it for the 7", 9", and 10" laptops; they were just in it to make a quick buck and they can explain high prices like that. Or maybe the price of a 10" netbook isn't too high anymore; an eee PC 1000H is 449$ USD...
I think that's another reason why linux is less popular, they come with gimped/for some reason only on the more expensive hardware/shit interfaces and are rejected for XP because of sheep and people who want the better deal.
If you don't have it in stock, how the fuck are people going to buy it? Finnish salespeople do this crap all the time, not only with Eee PC: There is product A that's good and sells well and it's soon out of stock. Then there's product B, that sorta kinda does the same as A, but much more crappily. But, since A is out of stock, what are people going to do? Buy product B.
This works, because Finns rarely complain. So they'll just get shafted with the crappier product, even though they have a clear preference for the better one.
Same goes for the Linux Eee PCs. OF COURSE the XP version is outselling it - 'cause that one you can buy, while the Linux Eee PC is nowhere to be found. Or, you really, really have to hunt for it.
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
I did a dual boot for a bit, then duched Ubuntu. XP works fine and runs surprisingly fast. Two gig memory is a must. Only thing I am missing is a graphic card, but then I did not buy this as a gaming notebook.
No way, seriously this sentence made me laugh aloud. You can hardly find more closed-minded nation in the world when it comes to choosing OS. It's either Mac OS or Vista, ordinary people don't bother to see more options. I'm a Mac or a PC, no third way. A year ago it was impossible to buy laptop with Linux pre-installed in whole area of Tottenham Court Road - now you can find plenty of UMPCs with Linux there, but it doesn't mean Brits care - it just means UMPCs are selling good there, and they happened to come with Linux by vendors choice.
Huh?
Did you even read what I wrote?
My USB travel-drive can install XP on any PC out there, with almost no interaction on my part. How the hell is that "harder to install and get running than Linux"?
on such a poor machine. You would have been much better off to use Puppy, or if even that's too slow for you, then Damn Small Linux.
Xubuntu needs 256MB of RAM to run decently, and probably a faster processor than that Celeron.
Hail Eris, full of mischief...
E pluribus sanguinem
Someone sign a deal with Microsoft? Limit the stock, pump the numbers, sounds like standard "embrace and extend" play.
How difficult can these things (Linux vs of EEE?)really be to find...
If you can get them at WALMART????
That being said, most people want something they can buy, take home and install their 9.99 bargain bin version of sudoku and a some goofy card making software on. Linux just doesn't work for the majority of people out there. Sorry, it doesn't. What the heck is the point of having a mini netbook, if the wireless adapter won't work? Or it *might* work, assuming you are using this version of this distro OR if you feel like editing registry files and installing wtfwrapper.
Not to mention, at this point in time. *most* people know at least or or two people who have been using windows for some time and can do some type of techinical support for them if they get into trouble. "Hey Sam, my printer isn't working...". How many average schmucks know someone who is a linux power user? Which means the only source of support they have is user forums and the IRC channel, and if you have no wireless adapter.....
Yeah.....
The Eee wireless works fine if you get the customized kernel from here. It handles WPA very well.
"with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
The 10" size is that of Asus's fourth generation, the 1000 series. I think the reality is that the drawbacks of the smaller form factors needed the minor compromises the previous generations have shaken out.
I picked up a 1000 a few months ago. I still think that the 40GB SSD in the 1000 is a better bargain than the 80 GB regular HD that comes w/ the XP version.
Xandros isn't horrible; it's just designed for someone who has never used Linux before. The only dealbreaker for me was Xandros' incompatibility with 802.1x. (Wpasupplicant is a messy kludge of a solution.)
I think that if not for the wireless problem, I might have tried customizing Xandros further. Simply replacing its default desktop environment would probably have addressed all of my other criticisms w/ Xandros.
There are problems w/ the Eee-specific Ubuntu distros (Eeebuntu, Ubuntu-eee), too. They can't yet access all the media keys. (Some of them don't even register an event in xev, at least last time I tried.) In my experience, Ubuntu-eee is also noticeably slower on the Eee than Xandros.
The plan is to bring these in at $200. If they can keep the weight down - the main reason I love my 701 4G is it's so easy to carry around that I've quite using my Zaurus clamshell - and sell it that cheap, who cares that you need to wipe Windows off of it?
"with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
I removed the Xandros desktop from my EEE within about 5 days of purchase. I found it frustrating that the packages I needed weren't available in the repo ... git-core, gcc, rsync, telnet, host. Who makes a linux distribution without rsync?
So what we need is perhaps what we've always needed - Microsoft to unbundle the OS and sell separately so the consumer knows the true cost of the hardware, the OS, and can choose appropriately.
Look, I love Linux, and it makes me a little sad to see all these sub-notebook makers dropping their Linux versions or putting up notes on their website saying "for everyday computing we recommend Windows"...
But you know what? I'm not about to delude myself that the majority of people are going to be perfectly fine with running Linux.
Some people, I'm sure, will be happy with the pre-installed Linux software - if it gets them a web browser, flash and Youtube work, they've got a word processor and they can print, etc. - that may be all they want out of a $300-$500 laptop.
Personally, I would want to install a different distro - I just need the flexibility, and I don't like Openoffice.
Other people might look at a EEE with pre-installed Linux and think "Well, the pre-installed software can do some things, but what I'd really like is to run this Windows application I like to use." To someone with that perspective, starting with a Linux laptop and installing XP on it, getting it to work nicely - that would be an improvement. They could still do all the things they could before, but now they can also download and install all the packages they're used to running.
My conspiracy theory for this whole situation goes like this: companies wanted to produce the cheapest notebooks possible as soon as possible to get the edge in this "netbook" market. Windows licensing was probably, initially, expensive enough to seriously impact these price points - and so they started by offering low-price netbooks with Linux pre-installed. The success of these items helped them to bargain for a better price on Windows.
Bow-ties are cool.
You bring home your fabulous new EEE or Aspire One, and try to install that 9.99 program... and that goofy card-making program.
Go ahead, I'll wait.
Waiting..
It doesn't have an optical drive.
Just another "Cubible(sic) Joe" 2 17 3061
When I got an Eee 1000H for the wife in August, I asked the reseller how many Linux Eees they sell. The guy said more than a quarter, which seemed quite a lot to me.
About my choice of the 1000H (it has a HDD), that was simply so I could swap it with a SSD when they become affordable / have better random write speeds. But I did get Linux on it, and the dreaded xandros got swiftly replaced with gentoo.
I don't think there's any spin to the numbers. 30% of sales being Linux is simply huge, especially since a lot of "sales" come from deals like Vodafone bundling a ridiculously underpriced windows Eee with a ridiculously overpriced 3G subscription.
I do however find Asus's decision to give up linux to be either braindead, or microsoft influence. 30% of sales means a lot of money lost to the competition that holds its ground, given there's a lot of geeks out there buying a nettop for themselves or family that will use Linux on it, but simply don't want to pay the microsoft tax.
Here's what I think happened:
Several years ago:
Asus: Hey, MS - we are making 8-9" netbook PCs that are going to be small, hip and cheap; wanna give us a good rate on XP - say $X?
MS: Hmmphhh... dream on - you guys pay what everyone else pays - $Y! No exceptions! Oh, and by the way, we'll be phasing out the XP, so plan on running and paying for Vista - $Z!
Asus: OK then, we'll use Linux.
MS: We've heard that before, good luck!
Later:
MS: Hey Asus, your netbook thingies really took off - they have to run XP - we want you to phase out your Linux version.
Asus: Ummm, can't really do that, sorry.
MS: We are giving you (and everyone else) XP licensing deal for $X for netbooks! You'd better do it, or we'll screw with your other products - you know how that goes.
Asus: OK, master, you are the boss, will do.
MS: Good boy.
Especialy as e.g. in Belgium you can only buy the XP. So at least Belgium might be even more open minded, but there is no choice.
The fact that the XP where still available and the Linux not could mean that they expected differently and stocked according their expectation.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
http://www.xubuntu.org/get
ie wrong distro. Xubuntu is a medium-weight desktop. Not quite as bloated as gnome/KDE/Vista. Try DSL?
I'm writing this on my eee1000H, which you could only ever get with XP; no Linux option.
Hardware-wise, it's a fantastic little machine; it does everything I want and it's very comfortable to use. --I actually prefer a machine with a bit of weight, (the eee1000 is perhaps the heaviest netbook in its class), for the same reason I don't like my corded phone to be a featherlight piece of plastic. The eee1000H feels solid and it doesn't scoot around like a toy, but it also remains both comfortable and wonderfully portable, like a mid-sized hardcover book.
So the main reason I picked it up over the SSD 1000 with Linux was that it was less expensive, thanks to the finagling of MS to make the XP release cheaper than the Linux version. (Quite the trick, given that the XP license wasn't free!) If they'd released the 1000H with Linux, I would have bought that hands down as it would no doubt have chopped another $50 or more from the price. The custom ASUS-brew Linux seemed fine to me when I tried it on the other machines. But XP does a nearly flawless job, so I have no complaints with that. I wonder what will happen when XP is phased out.
The big news here, I think, is that ASUS is phasing out the smaller screen versions of the eee. I do love the 10" screen on the 1000, but I think they could have done well if they'd put out a 900 with a bigger keyboard. --They did release one like this, but it ran an old Celeron, which seemed silly to me, but who knows? Maybe they had some surplus Celerons they wanted to liquidate. A 900 with an Atom chip and a proper keyboard would have been a hard choice to pass up, but as it stood, the choice was clear to me. --Big keyboard and an Atom processor, sweet battery life. Though, to be honest, after using the excellent 10" screen, I'd be reluctant now to go smaller. It's an almost perfect machine and the price is probably going to go down over the next few months to keep pace with the competition. I hear HP is releasing its latest contender in January.
-FL
Disclaimer: I'm the product marketing manager for the Xandros desktop that runs on the Eee PC.
I can assure you that this is not an MS stunt. At Xandros we've worked hard with Asus to make the Eee PC easy to use by non-techies. The simplified interface is easy to navigate on a small screen, apps downloaded through the Eee Download capability "just work" in a few clicks without enduring long download times or frequent updates, and there's good interop with Windows. Kids especially find the Eee PC fun and intuitive to use.
Obviously there's a strong techie interest in the platform as well, so I'm interested in the discussion here. Got some constructive suggestions about how you'd like to use your netbook? I'd love to hear them. You can email me at jordan.smith(at)xandros.com.
Thanks!
Jordan
Geez, who needs a screen that's at least 10"? I mean, WEP cracking doesn't take up that much space!
I dont know what its like in other countries, but in Australia trying to find the eeepc in a linux version is near impossible.
As I work for a VAR/SI company we have logins to many importers and wholesalers. One of the biggest in Australia has 3 versions of the linux-based eeepc. Two of them are 701's. The third is one version of 901, and it comes in at $120 more expensive then the XP version with a 2gb ram upgrade.
Thats right, more than 20% extra for the 1gb 901 with linux versus a 2gb 901 with windows. If you went into a retail store you might find an acer aspire one running linux, but theres no way in hell you'll find a eeepc running it anymore. So is it a surprise XP is outselling linux? Hell no.
Personally, this is the reason why I hate MS, they couldn't compete fairly so they found another way around the problem - force the OEM's to make linux so expensive and unavailable no one would ever use it.
Nice work microsoft.
"Your entire complaint basically boils down to, "I don't know Linux, and I don't want to, but now I know it's not Windows." Good fucking job! I just always figured Linux and Windows were exactly the same, but now, thanks to your incredible insight, I'm aware that Linux and Windows are in fact different! Wow!"
There's nothing insightful about your comment. In fact, as near as I can tell, it's completely wrong.
Allow me to summarize the original post.
1. Attempted foreign language install. Never worked.
2. Installed Blackberry charging drivers - never worked.
3. Found out customizing shell involved editing text config files.
4. Got VPN working - turned out to be unstable.
5. Old issue - installing Ubuntu on 2GB flash dive. Failed with indetermine problems.
And so, here you come with your "insightful" reply, and claim that his whole post is that linux isn't Windows, and that apparently he doesn't want to know linux.
The only way your post makes any sense is if you think he's an idiot because he wants linux to work, and that just isn't "linux".
Moderators: Please don't drink and moderate.
I live in Australia and tried for more than 3 months to get my hands on a linux version, at a reasonable price. I had several friends in the same predicament. In the end I gave in and bought a windows version, as the only places I could get the linux versions were all through online retailers, with all the risks associated with that and were also around $100 to $150 more than I could get a windows version from my local retailer for. I was obviously more comfortable saving $150 and knowing that I could take it back to the store if I have any warranty issues, so I bought the windows version, even though I did not want to. Needless to say, once I had updated to service pack 3, I had no space left on my c: drive and it ran like a dog, so I dumped windows and installed Ubuntu, which I am sure many others have done, so the 7:3 ratio i strongly suspect is a very falsely engineered ratio, which does not reflect customers true intentions. I am extremely happy with it in it's current configuration, but would have been just as happy with the Xandros version, if I could have found one at a reasonable price.
Ummmm... these things come with the wireless adaptor installed and working - and the webcam, microphone, hibernation... Your point may be relevant to upgrading a Windows PC to Linux, but it isn't for pre-installed hardware.
And the latest Ubuntu release finally puts that "wireless is a pain on linux" meme to rest, too.
Do as you would be done to.
I was looking at getting the 1000HA model because of the price point. Currently its $425.68 on Amazon. As far as I can tell, its the same specs as the 901 but has a 10" screen and a larger mechanical hard drive. The 901 model with Linux installed, has a 8.9" screen and a 20GB SSD. Price on Amazon? $446.85... a difference of $21.17. I plan to install Linux on it anyway, so I don't really care whether it comes with Windows or Linux pre-installed. The only real feature I'm interested in is the 6-cell battery for a longer run time. Unfortunately with the current price points, I'll be buying a Windows model, adding to those stats.
Right, which means that it's a stupid toolkit to use when your primary platform is Windows and you are developing proprietary applications. The post I was replying to was saying that you should do that *anyway* for your proprietary applications, and I'm saying that he's dumb for suggesting it because it's increased cost for no real benefit.
"You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
Huh?
Did you even read what I wrote?
My USB travel-drive can install XP on any PC out there, with almost no interaction on my part. How the hell is that "harder to install and get running than Linux"?
Did *you* even read what you wrote?
"I spent quite a bit of time beforehand with nLite, ripping the guts out of XP."
I have a strict policy regarding netbooks and other PCs: if you (the vendor) won't sell me the OS I want, I *will* go somewhere else. Asus - I *won't* buy any of your Windows-based PCs. Ever. If you drop Linux, I *will* drop you, like a stone.
So, choose between your customers and Microsoft. If you tie your fortunes to Microsoft, you will lose a *growing* number of customers.
And I will not even buy a Linux version of any model, if the price has been made deliberately higher than the matching Windows model in order to appease Microsoft.
Microsoft does not tell me what PC I may buy. No one elected them to government. It is time for a Declaration of Software Independence. The customer is king, not Microsoft.
I am anarch of all I survey.
I was surprised it was that high.
Superstores are pushing heavily against teh Linux models because the same netbooks that have windows they sell you the 99-150$ protection plan (which is antivirus and some Adaware program).
That gravy doesnt sell with Linux flavor.
Keep believing that, and the world will be a better place... and it'll rain gumdrops and fountains will produce nothing but chocolate milk.
Opinions are like assholes...
It's the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man.
Ha, ha - I originally bought a 4G with Xandros and I loved it. When it got stolen I tried to get a 900 with Linux (not available in this country), then later a 901 with Linux (not available in this country) and last a 1000H with Linux (not available in this country).
It is very easy to claim XP is outselling Linux when they refuse to sell the Linux version - probably because they make more money on the XP version. Asus seems to have forgotten how they got into this market and why their 4G/700 series was such a huge success.
I usually install from a network drive or an image file. (and yes, I have a 1000h (xp) version of the EEE, I love it, I wouldn't trade it for a full sized laptop if it was offered tbh)
Because they're smart they won't pay $450 for a celeron, no 802.11n and no bluetooth.
Have you ever actually used nLite?
If all you want to do is remove windows features, nLite is easier to use than any Linux package manager. The reason it took me a while to do was because there are something like 300 packages to look through, and I wanted to strip it down to the bare essentials without removing anything critical. Otherwise, if all you want to do is remove a few components, it's no different than removing apps in Ubuntu post-install.
the sad reality is (at least in Singapore) is that the stores only stock Windows models. I bought my Linux eee pc in Jakarta, when I wanted to buy a second one in Singapore I found that none of the stores were stocking the linux model, just lots of Windows models that weren't selling, as they competed against major branded models. :-) - one day.
So, I stuck with my one linux model and am waiting for apple to ship a nice portable mac
I sure hope Asus read this and take note!
After leading the renaissance of the computer type now known as the "netbook", it is utterly baffling why Asus insists on destroying their own competitiveness in this very class.
MOST people I know who have these have the Linux version, including high school students. MOST people I know who choose one of these over a sub-$500 regular notebook chose it for SMALL SIZE and FUNCTIONALITY, not screen size and Windows.
At least we have other options now--but it seems unexplainable why Asus would, at every turn, choose to abandon the market they almost created and leave it to their competitors.
How is the cost ballooned? They offer it for cheaper!
Twinstiq, game news
Of course the Windows version is going to outsell the Linux version when you refuse to ship the Linux version to a good percentage of markets.
I'm me. I think.
I sell computers, and we have both the eeepc with linux, and the one with XP. My associates and I tend to draw people away from linux, even though that machine is cheaper.
We know whats going to happen if someone takes home that linux pc and doesn't understand what is there. Customers first reaction is to return the pc. At least you can make people understand with a apple computer that it is going to be different, the same can't be said about a linux netbook.
Oh, and don't get me wrong, I use linux myself for all my productivity. People are just unwilling to learn...
Look, if you want to use something like a 500mhz CPU, you're going to have to go ultralight. I use an older desktop on these older boxes... usually Windowmaker in my case, which is easy for me because despite being older, it looks like Unix, and not some Windows or OS X knockoff, like GNOME or KDE. If I wanted Windows on the box, I'd run Windows on the box.
Anyway, if you're using something like Seamonkey for your broswer, and some older, lightweight X apps, you can run an old box quickly and productively. Even updated apps like the GIMP run fine on such hardware. What kills you are things like Firefox and OpenOffice (OO, in particular, is a resource hog extraordinaire).
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
I support a development infrastructure for roughly 20,000 paid Linux developers. And I don't do that for free. But if you want to keep believing that Linux developers are kids hacking for free from their mothers' basements, go on deluding yourself.
Setting the locale should be effectively all you have to do in any major Linux distro. The "control panel" isn't named that and isn't where it would be in XP. You set locality and languages. My daughter does this in linux with no difficulty, and has introduced me to some really good Russian rock music and musicians such as DDT and Zemfira. The real bottom line to running linux is simple willingness to spend time learning. I use XP at work, and linux primarily and XP secondarily at home. Ten years ago patience was not an option and linux was somewhat more arcane than Windows 98. At this time, IF you have equivalent experience with both OS's, any major linux distro is arguably going to be a quicker basic install and easier to maintain than XP. For one thing as far as maintenance goes there is no registry to get futzed up every month or so - my experience is that the registry getting gummed up is XP's chief reason for sluggishness. The sole upside that Windows has presently is the few really useful software pieces - such as Adobe Photoshop - that run natively in XP. I've heard the complaint that hardware support is a problem in linux, and again, ten years ago it was a pretty esoteric issue, what with editing printer drivers and such - but it often was something that could be dealt with using a text editor - I wrote a little access script for a usb microscope that worked for as long as I had the 'scope. These days, there is little to chose between linux and XP. In fact, for USB hardware that can be accessed as mass storage, linux is far easier. I don't need to add drivers to download photographs for instance, or to use a thumb drive. XP still seems to flinch and blink rapidly when ever new hardware appears and needs a driver before the hardware can be accessed. So, don't confuse the weight of your experience with Windows with 'ease of use,' it's an illusion. Your knowledge makes Windows easier and also makes linux _appear_ more difficult.
------ The only greater hazard to your liberty than n politicians is n+1 politicians.
A graphics card is expensive but not strange and unknown. Most people don't know what Linux is but they know it's "Not Windows" so for $30 they don't risk it.
No sig today...
Store brand cola is about a third of the price and usually perfectly drinkable.
Why do people buy Coca Cola? Branding, familiarity/safety, not wanting to do any explaining if they have guests 'round .... a combination of all of the above?
Whatever the reason, Coca Cola outsells store brand cola by orders of magnitude.
Linux is up against something similar and it's as unlikely to "win".
No sig today...
Eee PC has 1Gb RAM and enough disk for an XP install. No "shoe-horning" or "horrible task" required.
No sig today...
If the 10" was 1024x768 I'd be interested, but it's not, it's still 1024x600 so what's the point?
The #1 selling point of the Eee PC is portability and the 10" is less portable.
No sig today...
Shen also said XP is outselling GNU/Linux on netbooks by a ratio of 7:3. This is somewhat contrary to news from the UK earlier in the year that GNU/Linux units were out of stock while XP machines sat unsold.
There was an interview not that many weeks ago - I thought Slashdot had the link, but I'm probably wrong as nobody has brought it up - where the ASUS CEO was talking about his definition of "netbook" being "less than 10"", and bringing out all sort of eeePC-stuff, starting with something akin to Mac mini. He also said that the XP-version has been much more popular than the Linux-version, with Europe being exception;
A lot of users like the Windows XP, but in Europe a lot of people want the Linux option.
The interview can be found here http://blog.laptopmag.com/asus-ceo-reveals-eee-pc-sales-numbers-plans-for-touch-eee-pcs-and-more-eee-family-products ...
Incidentally, is there some FAQ on how to hide url of the link?
Chronologically late.
Are Brits more open-minded than the rest of the world when it comes to choosing an OS?
That question might partly be answered by looking at the amount of advertising MS does in each country. In Australia, we get the odd MS ad, but they're pretty rare, while in the US it *seems* they spend a lot on advertising.
Anyone want to chime in?
for me 10" is useless because it's too big for a netbook. No matter how good CPU or other components a netbook has, if it is bigger than 9" it's too big for me and therefore out of my purchasing considerations for the netbook category.
It wasn't a celeron, but I had a PIII notebook with 128mb RAM and a *realy* slow hard drive. Today's xubuntu don't run on it by any way, but I installed xubuntu 6.04 on it and it ran perfectly with a really snappy interface.
I believe xubuntu has lost its path running along with ubuntu towards bloatness.
-- dnl
I think there is demand for the smaller size; if so, it will be met by the several competitors who followed ASUS.
A light, lower wattage, slimmer, cheaper - yet faster, more RAM, more "disk", better graphics - will be possible as the months go rolling by.
In a depression, cheap wins.
If XP:linux sell at 7:3, dropping linux sacrifices 30% of sales... Odd.
OTOH, the linux-subnetbook category is a deadly threat to MS (that's why they un-retired XP for it, @ $40 each). I think they'd do whatever is necessary to protect themselves.
For Linux to compete, it should aim at producing distributions that support as much hardware as XP, have similar friendly installations, and possibly -- dear god did I say it -- run XP software, because win32 is the biggest software base in the world and it's what users want.
OS/2 did just that: run Windows software (Win 3.1 at the time). Later there was "OS/2 for windows" - no that's not OS/2 running as a Windows application, it's kinda the other way around.
And we all know how OS/2 ended up... recently I saw it on a booting ATM machine. That's where it's still used. Not on PC's.
Windows software runs on it - so why make a native OS/2 version? And as there is no native OS/2 software and you'll be using Windows software anyway, why not just stick with Windows?
Now change OS/2 to Linux.
Still think it's such a great idea?
need to connect to a cisco vpn in ubuntu? apt-get install vpnc. need the same on windows? hunt down the binary and install.
Need to do something that isn't interesting to geeks in Linux? Hunt down the source, hunt down the dependencies, maybe patch it or write code yourself, or fire up Wine.
For most software, "hunt down the binary and install" is an improvement.
You want to make Linux successful, so it really can be shipped with PCs, come up with a distro that keeps applications isolated from each other, with at most a link-farm in /usr/local, and has a stable kernel API and ABI.
Otherwise you're wasting your time trying to make it look like Windows. You need to make it *work* better than Windows, and outside a few specific markets it's a lot worse:
* Geeks. That's me, by the way, and Windows is dead to me. But I know I'm not typical.
* Companies distributing locked down boxes with a stock software set. Point of Sale, Tivo, embedded systems.
* People who just need a browser and email.
* People who only need a couple of high-profile apps like Open Office or Gimp.
Otherwise, if your requirements include software that geeks are only likely to write for pay, you're out of luck.
That means the bulk of "not quite geeks", the power users, the ones who are not willing to understand programming but are willing to learn a few tricks, are going to be more likely to stick to Windows. And they're the majority of the influencers these days.
That is almost what happened, but not only did Microsoft offer a lower price ($25), they also extended the availability of XP for netbook OEMs till 2010. Microoft define a netbook as =10" screen, =1GHz processor or an Atom, and I think there is something about storage capacity too.
Chernobyl 'not a wildlife haven' - BBC News
That's really too bad, the Eee's appeal was that it had no weight, was small, and had reasonable performance for a small price. Not sure why people complained about it's size. It wasn't supposed to be a desktop replacement.
There just a few vendors out there ya know...
They thought it was going to be an 8:2 ratio, and when it turned into 7:3, they had a glut of XP computers and a shortage of GNU/Linux computers.
I needed to get foreign languages installed on it.
Unfortunately "Linux" doesn't mean much more than "IBM BIOS". The OS that the ASUS installed isn't really compatible with any other Linux OS on the planet. It really isn't designed it install new software on. In Ubuntu there is System -> Administration -> Language Support.
My previous most recent attempt had involved installing Ubuntu (GG I think) on an older computer. I wanted to create a silent system, so I bought a 2GB flash drive. Ubuntu said it needed 2GB to install. It lied, it needed 2.001 GB to install, and kept dying without a good explanation of what was going on. Another few hours lost.
This bit me as well. FYI, I think you can install if you use reiserfs. I've had problems with other installers, e.g. XP claimed (incorrectly) that one of my harddisks had bad sectors (it actually had a unusual partition table). Vista took some hours to get to the point where it incorrectly claimed that I had. Overall I think Ubuntu has the nicest installer I have come across.
There are many things that piss me off about Ubuntu, but it is still my favourite (least hated operating system). I was fortunate to have poured a few hundred hours into it while I had a few hundred hours to spare.
In that case - screw Asus, go for Acer Aspire One or MSI Wind.
Back when Win16 was the biggest software base in the world, OS/2 was a "better Windows than Windows". Look where they are now. If all you can promise is more of the same, you will die.
The Xandros on the 701 is spot on for school use. It limits the computer to an appliance that the student can use to type, print, and browse on in a classroom setting. We remove everything not related to the appliance type use from the desktop so that there's nothing to play with on it or that will allow them to change the settings. Sixty of these machines were purchased to test this year and the teachers prefer them to the full-sized laptops. We're looking to buy several hundred of them for next year, but only if the small-sized ASUS is still available. If not, can an off-the-shelf copy of Xandros be modified to look and feel the same on an Aspire One? Thanks, -JM
Who cares? Until the mouse buttons are more usable, I don't care if it's running CP/M.
Dude, I think you're off by a factor of 1 million. I'm pretty sure the Intellivision console was closer to half a megahertz than half a hertz. I mean, Charles Babbage's calculating machine probably ran faster than half a hertz.
404555974007725459910684486621289147856453481154 in hex is "You sank my Battleship?"
[GPG key in journal]
Forget about the LINUX influence on the story for a minute.
What I find more telling in the situation is that they are still shipping XP rather than Vista.
Vista isn't even part of the equation for this OEM because it sucks so badly.
Huh?