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Wolfram Promises Computing That Answers Questions

An anonymous reader writes "Computer scientist Stephen Wolfram feels that he has put together at least the initial version of a computer that actually answers factual questions, a la Star Trek's ship computers. His version will be found on their Web-based application, Wolfram Alpha. What does this mean? Well, instead of returning links to pages that may (or may not) contain the answer to your questions, Wolfram will respond with the actual answer. Just imagine typing in 'How many bones are in the human body?' and getting the answer." Right now, though the search entry field is in place, Alpha is not yet generally available -- only "to a few select individuals."

369 comments

  1. Lojban by Sybert42 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I don't think this can be examined without language issues. Lojban attempts to make a parsable constructed language (currently undergoing a few grammar issues, but mostly locked down). As we get closer to the Singularity, with regards to infant-style general AI and perhaps even transhuman implants (thought detector or such), we'll see perhaps a myriad of unambiguous languages.

    1. Re:Lojban by msuarezalvarez · · Score: 2, Funny

      There is no need to fully parse natural languages (or to substitute them with made up languages you can parse...) in order to answer questions posed in natural languages. Indeed, one does not need to *understand* a question (in whatever AI meaning you want) in order to find its answer.

    2. Re:Lojban by gardyloo · · Score: 4, Funny

      I don't think this can be examined without language issues. Lojban attempts to make a parsable constructed language (currently undergoing a few grammar issues, but mostly locked down). As we get closer to the Singularity, with regards to infant-style general AI and perhaps even transhuman implants (thought detector or such), we'll see perhaps a myriad of unambiguous languages.

      Your cautiousness and pragmatism in the first two sentences was noted and admired. Then you used the word Singularity in the Vinge sense, and my woo-detector pegged.

    3. Re:Lojban by dkf · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I don't think this can be examined without language issues. Lojban attempts to make a parsable constructed language (currently undergoing a few grammar issues, but mostly locked down). As we get closer to the Singularity, with regards to infant-style general AI and perhaps even transhuman implants (thought detector or such), we'll see perhaps a myriad of unambiguous languages.

      Any language that is truly unambiguous is uninteresting. Firstly, you've got Goedel incompleteness to worry about (which stems from statements that are fundamentally ambiguous as to their interpretation, such as "this statement is false"). Secondly, languages are there for people to communicate with, and people seem to prefer ambiguity. Ask a poet if you need proof of that.

      --
      "Little does he know, but there is no 'I' in 'Idiot'!"
    4. Re:Lojban by goombah99 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      is the answer to this question "no"?

      If you want to answer a question without understanding the question then how do you know when the question can be answered?

      --
      Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    5. Re:Lojban by poopdeville · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You look for an answer until you find it or give up.

      --
      After all, I am strangely colored.
    6. Re:Lojban by home-electro.com · · Score: 1

      It is useless thing even if it works as advertised. I can find an answer to "how many bones" much faster by typing "bones human body" and then quickly glancing through google search results to select a page that will have an answer.

      Typing the complete question takes longer, and there is also a question of the information source. With search results you can always select a page that you trust to be accurate. With this thing -- I am not so sure.

    7. Re:Lojban by linhares · · Score: 2, Funny

      "will you answer no to this question?" kernel panic

    8. Re:Lojban by linhares · · Score: 4, Funny

      You look for an answer until you find it or give up.

      Oh, so (i) you don't understand the question, then (ii) you look for an answer, (iii, A) you find it (how? how will you know you found it?), or (iii, B) you give up.

      Just wanted to make sure that this thread was really about this. Here's a new low, even for slashdot.

    9. Re:Lojban by HiThere · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Are you limited to yes/no answers?

      Why are people presuming that the program will be limited to yes/no answers?
      Q: Will you answer no to this question?
      A: It's rather unlikely.

      (Or, "I doubt it" or any of several different answers.)

      There are enough legitimate paradoxes that you don't need to construct such obvious losers.

      How about:
      Is "This statement is false." false?

      It's still easy enough to handle (in several different ways), but at least it's a valid challenge.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    10. Re:Lojban by linhares · · Score: 2, Funny

      Why are people presuming that the program will be limited to yes/no answers? Q: Will you answer no to this question? A: It's rather unlikely. (Or, "I doubt it" or any of several different answers.)

      Q: What made you think it's rather unlikely? kernel panic

    11. Re:Lojban by fractoid · · Score: 3, Interesting

      To my mind, any reasonable definition of understanding a subject includes the ability to reason based on information about the subject. In the case of a question, this would include the ability to say, at the very least, whether a given answer is a correct answer for the question.

      From this, we can see that if we can build a reasoning engine that can determine if a given answer is correct for a question, hypothetically we can iterate over a large set of answers and apply our filter to each one. This provides us with a machine to answer questions (although depending on the size of the set of answers, "I don't know" might be a frequent response) which (by my definition, at least) 'understands' the question.

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    12. Re:Lojban by Thinboy00 · · Score: 1

      is the answer to this question "no"?

      [snip]

      five.

      --
      $ make available
    13. Re:Lojban by Bandman · · Score: 4, Funny

      three, sir

    14. Re:Lojban by Bandman · · Score: 1

      But asking the question is so much easier than coming up with the magical query which will return the right "I'm feeling lucky" result, which is really the answer you want.

    15. Re:Lojban by linhares · · Score: 1

      Hi twitter, didn't know it was you.

    16. Re:Lojban by Bandman · · Score: 1

      Are you implying that the computer hasn't been programmed to lie?

    17. Re:Lojban by poopdeville · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Eh? You call me stupid and then don't like getting called on it. Well that's too bad. You already look like an asshole. Indeed, you have confirmed it.

      --
      After all, I am strangely colored.
    18. Re:Lojban by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Definitely trolling. Or an epic fail in basic logic. I can't tell...

      GP is right. Also, he does go deeper than airy-fairy statements with no meaning behind them.

    19. Re:Lojban by tomhudson · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Don't sweat it ... these are the same people who believe that a computer can "think" about chess, instead of just searching through N number of plies in T time, then offering the best solution it has found in those constraints, without ever having to "understand" chess on any level.

      This can be applied to ANY problem, provided you want to invest the design and testing time.

      This whole question was answered decades ago (1970s) with the "foreigner in a sealed room" turing thought experiment. It showed that the person in the sealed room doesn't have to understand english, or even know the answer to questions, provided they are given some simple rules to link words together in a response depending on what words are in the original statement.

    20. Re:Lojban by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      I don't think it poses any problem to come up with a set of answers, together with their sources. This must happen anyway.

      Because opposite to the wet dreams of some Wikipedia editors or totalitarian leaders, there is no absolute truth for everything more complex than some basic physics laws. Every parameter of an object is only defined, relative to something else.

      And if you can load at least two pages, and scan them for what you need, faster than you can type one single reader, then I guess you type with a stick between your teeth or something like that. Sorry, but you are an exception. (Or full of shit.)

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    21. Re:Lojban by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      C'mon now: everyone knows that the answer to a question you don't understand is 42.

    22. Re:Lojban by caffeinemessiah · · Score: 2, Informative

      Firstly, you've got Goedel incompleteness to worry about (which stems from statements that are fundamentally ambiguous as to their interpretation, such as "this statement is false"). Secondly, languages are there for people to communicate with, and people seem to prefer ambiguity

      What exactly does Godel's theorem have to do with what you just said? The incompleteness theorem deals with axiomatized systems. This leads me to think that you might be confusing the popular meaning of "language" with the mathematical definition. People (at least normal people) do not communicate with mathematical languages.

      --
      An old-timer with old-timey ideas.
    23. Re:Lojban by interstellar_donkey · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Moreso, I'd argue that true reasoning would be the ability to provide a factual answer to a subjective question.

      For example, "Does food taste good?"

      The machine would have to take into account the vast bits of information at it's disposal. For example, found statements like 'This food tastes good' and 'this food does not taste good', would both have to be considered and then qualifiers added to the answer to make it correct, such as 'Some food tastes good'.

      Otherwise, it's just fancy regurgitation of facts using a complex language parser.

      --
      The Internet is generally stupid
    24. Re:Lojban by shawnap · · Score: 5, Insightful

      ... these are the same people who believe that a computer can "think" about chess, instead of just searching through N number of plies in T time, then offering the best solution it has found in those constraints...

      Who says that this is insufficient for "thinking"?

      I think understanding the Chinese room paradox as having provided a solution to this question is a misinterpretation. The best thing to take away is that "thinking" is not well defined.

    25. Re:Lojban by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Indeed, one does not need to *understand* a question (in whatever AI meaning you want) in order to find its answer.

      I take it you don't believe that the Chinese Room understands Chinese?

    26. Re:Lojban by tomhudson · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The "thinking" can be reduced to a computing machine made out of tinkertoys, or punch-card readers. It requires no understanding, no "learning", no insight - just rote mechanical responses to inputs. That's not "thinking" any more than instinct is - it's just hard-wired responses.

      The real question is "what is sufficient for thinking", and I believe the answer is pretty easy - free will. To those who argue against free will, then all thought is predetermined, and therefore mechanistic. But of course, they're free to think that, though they would argue otherwise :-)

      Or we can try this (modified from the supreme's definition of pornography) - "I may not be able to define thought, but I know it when I see it!" - which under the circumstances, is actually quite appropriate - it means that discerning whether actual "thinking" is taking place requires - wait for it - THOUGHT!

      Or do I throw in the now-obligatory bad car analogy? :-)

    27. Re:Lojban by jadavis · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Otherwise, it's just fancy regurgitation of facts using a complex language parser.

      It's more than regurgitation. It can make inferences from the set of facts available to generate new propositions. Some of these new propositions may not be obvious to a human looking at the same set of source facts.

      --
      Social scientists are inspired by theories; scientists are humbled by facts.
    28. Re:Lojban by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think that perhaps you should what incompleteness really means before trying to make emphatic statements.

    29. Re:Lojban by poopdeville · · Score: 1

      I agree that "thought" is a vague term. But I think the Chinese Room argument shows us that we should either be very conservative about what we consider thought, or very liberal, or at least have a sliding scale. "Thinking" about chess or translating Cantonese to Mandarin in these terms (as iterating over a data structure looking for an optimum solution) fundamentally amounts to... parsing a data structure and applying a function. There are billions of lines of code that do this today (indeed, every single program including Hello World does this), and "nobody" considers them intelligent. Perhaps we should, but I am not convinced.

      The biggest problem in AI research is the lack of Wittgenstein in the coursework. Like most philosophical issues, this is a matter of incompatible vocabularies and abrasive personalities too arrogant to see it.

      --
      After all, I am strangely colored.
    30. Re:Lojban by cryptoluddite · · Score: 4, Funny

      You look for an answer until you find it or give up.

      Oh, so (i) you don't understand the question, then (ii) you look for an answer, (iii, A) you find it (how? how will you know you found it?)

      Once you have found the answer only then will you understand the question, grasshooper.

    31. Re:Lojban by home-electro.com · · Score: 2, Informative

      Just a couple of day ago I wanted to figure out how "crustacean" are related to other animals. (don't ask...)
      I'd have to think for five minutes to formulate the question instead of just typing 'crustecean' which I don't even know how to spell.

      In rare occasions that I only need a factual answer like how much the elephant weigh the answer is more complex than simple number.

      Anyway, after talking to a number of 'ai' voice recognition systems I don't believe in machine intelligence in any form :)

    32. Re:Lojban by Tubal-Cain · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Lojban allows for ambiguity, but in such a way that the listener can recognize that the statement is incomplete.

    33. Re:Lojban by nizo · · Score: 1

      That still doesn't explain why Kung Fu was canceled. Hey, my first question to ask the almighty AI.

    34. Re:Lojban by nizo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ahh, but how many bones does a one-armed midget with three fused vertebra who just swallowed a whole parakeet have?

    35. Re:Lojban by znu · · Score: 5, Informative

      The Chinese Room is misdirection, pure and simple. We're supposed to conclude that because the person in the room doesn't have the subjective experience of understanding Chinese, the system as a whole (the person, the data tables, the rules) doesn't "really" understand Chinese.

      But there's no logical reason to assume a specific part of the system should have a subjective experience of understanding something that the system as a whole understands. This becomes obvious if you follow the logic a few more steps. Do you believe each specific part of your brain subjectively experiences understanding? How about individual neurons? How about the atoms that comprise the neurons in your brain? If you don't believe these things have the subjective experience of understanding the things that your brain as a whole understands, then your brain is incapable of "really" understanding anything, according to the logic of the Chinese Room.

      --
      This space unintentionally left unblank.
    36. Re:Lojban by dkf · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What exactly does Godel's theorem have to do with what you just said? The incompleteness theorem deals with axiomatized systems. This leads me to think that you might be confusing the popular meaning of "language" with the mathematical definition. People (at least normal people) do not communicate with mathematical languages.

      If you have an unambiguous system, that means it must be possible to give an exact translation from it into mathematics. After all, that's what mathematical notation really is, a way of unambiguously saying things.

      But wait! Goedel says that there are no interesting complete mathematical systems (yeah, I do know what axiomatization is, thankyouverymuch). From that we can then deduce that the language that is being translated from must either be able to describe paradoxical entities whose interpretation/valuation must be necessarily ambiguous (that's what Goedel actually did, it's the heart of his proof) or that the originating language is unutterably trivial - that it can't even talk about simple arithmetic for example, let alone actual complex concepts.

      The heart of my real argument though was that most people prefer ambiguity. If someone writes "my love is like a red, red rose", it shouldn't have to include a frequency profile of the reflected light off the rose or a precise description of the variety. (More seriously, many poets explicitly want the ambiguity; the reader is supposed to have to work to extract the correct meaning(s) of the poem.)

      --
      "Little does he know, but there is no 'I' in 'Idiot'!"
    37. Re:Lojban by palegray.net · · Score: 2, Insightful

      For a great many questions, getting an instant answer (ala "I'm Feeling Lucky") would beat the hell out of having to click on and read even one result link in a search engine.

    38. Re:Lojban by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "perhaps myriad unambiguous languages"

      GET IT RIGHT FUCKERS!

    39. Re:Lojban by SnowZero · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I have always hated Searle's Chinese room "paradox", since it is just playing a semantic game with the definition of the system. The claim that the person in the room doesn't understand things is no different from saying that a neuron doesn't understand things, or that 1/4 of my brain alone doesn't understand things. The "rules" in the box are part of the system, and I would claim that if it passes the test, the person+rules do demonstrate understanding. We have no evidence that human thought somehow transcends the model of executed rules anyway; at some level it is all chemistry and physics.

      A modern example would be that my CPU (::person in box) doesn't know how to behave as a web browser. While true, my computer does know how to be a web browser when you add the software (::rules), and an input and output system (::box interface). The Chinese room paradox is just yanking out the CPU and saying that it doesn't know how to be a web browser. Nice trick.

      The other thing the "paradox" does it to try to evoke imagery of a very simple ruleset because it is a person executing rules on paper, which would be very slow. The person executing paper rules is slow enough to have the computational power of a few neurons at best, while the brain has ~100 billion. So the equivalent rules in the paradox's imagined transformation would never fit in a room and could not be executed to completion by a person before their death. While it is supposed to be a thought experiment, the relative scale is so incredibly different that it makes imagining it difficult, and I wonder if it was chosen for that purpose. I will cut Searle some slack though, since Turing's guess about how much computing power needed to pass the Turing test was ridiculously low (~50 MB of storage), when compared to what we now know of human brain capabilities.

      I think the appeal of the paradox is that deep down many people want to believe that we are qualitatively different from computers, rather than quantitatively so. As for me, I'm happy enough knowing that atop my shoulders sits a computer with more raw processing power than the largest supercomputer, with rules/programming far beyond anything we can create now, or perhaps for hundreds of years.

    40. Re:Lojban by dzfoo · · Score: 1

      Using the term "to take away" flags you as a marketroid weenie and invalidates all claims to the argument.

              Sorry,
              -dZ.

      --
      Carol vs. Ghost
      ...Can you save Christmas?
    41. Re:Lojban by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The real question is "what is sufficient for thinking", and I believe the answer is pretty easy - free will. To those who argue against free will, then all thought is predetermined, and therefore mechanistic.

      Your reasoning is flawed. There could be no "free will" but some random generator and the thinking would still not be "predetermined".

      -alpha

    42. Re:Lojban by dzfoo · · Score: 1

      Fine. Then cite an example of such a new proposition for the question. Extra points if you phrase it in the form of a car analogy.

              -dZ.

      --
      Carol vs. Ghost
      ...Can you save Christmas?
    43. Re:Lojban by dzfoo · · Score: 1

      moo?

      --
      Carol vs. Ghost
      ...Can you save Christmas?
    44. Re:Lojban by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      In the case of the particular example - 'How many bones are in the human body?', if you cut and paste the entire question into google, the first result/'I'm feeling lucky' gives you the answer. This works well for lots of simple/common questions.
      I guess this was a very poor example - maybe Stephen Wolfram should have chosen a question which *doesn't* already produce an excellent result on google?

    45. Re:Lojban by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just a couple of day ago I wanted to figure out how "crustacean" are related to other animals. (don't ask...)
      I'd have to think for five minutes to formulate the question instead of just typing 'crustecean' which I don't even know how to spell.

      Did you even actually try this? I put your misspelt word into google, then clicked on the 'did you mean' link to correct the spelling, and the *first hit* is then the Wikipedia article which explains - among other things - the taxonomy of crustaceans - i.e. how they relate to to other animals.

    46. Re:Lojban by Pentagram · · Score: 1

      The Chinese Room is misdirection, pure and simple. We're supposed to conclude that because the person in the room doesn't have the subjective experience of understanding Chinese, the system as a whole (the person, the data tables, the rules) doesn't "really" understand Chinese.

      There's no "supposed to" in the Chinese Room setup. It's a thought experiment, and you can (and people have) come to different conclusions after thinking about it.

      You seem to be arguing that the entire system understands Chinese, but that's a fairly remarkable leap IMO. If the rules themselves are just passive statements, and the man reading the rules doesn't understand the rules being read, then how does the system suddenly obtain understanding once you bring the two together in a black box? Where is this new consciousness located?

      One of Searle's replies to this argument is to do away with the rules and the room, and have the man memorise all the rules. Then, the entire system comprises of just the man, who can demonstrate an ability to process Chinese, even though he has no understanding of the language. Is there still a "system" present that understands Chinese?

      Do you believe each specific part of your brain subjectively experiences understanding? How about individual neurons? How about the atoms that comprise the neurons in your brain? If you don't believe these things have the subjective experience of understanding the things that your brain as a whole understands, then your brain is incapable of "really" understanding anything, according to the logic of the Chinese Room.

      Well one argument is that individual neurons and atoms *do* have elements of conciousness (not one I agree with, but it's not easy to show it's false). But I think it's missing the point. The Chinese Room is not so much a question about dividing up consciousness as to whether understanding can be achieved by just following simple rules.

    47. Re:Lojban by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > "I may not be able to define thought, but I know it when I see it!"

      Which happens to be the idea behind the Turing test.

    48. Re:Lojban by Pentagram · · Score: 1

      The "rules" in the box are part of the system, and I would claim that if it passes the test, the person+rules do demonstrate understanding.

      Well that was Turing's argument, and what the Chinese room is arguing against (or at least questioning).

      We have no evidence that human thought somehow transcends the model of executed rules anyway; at some level it is all chemistry and physics.

      We have no evidence that it is merely executed rules either, nor that chemistry and physics follow the same.

      A modern example would be that my CPU (::person in box) doesn't know how to behave as a web browser. While true, my computer does know how to be a web browser when you add the software (::rules), and an input and output system (::box interface).

      I'm not sure that's a fair comparison. There's no evidence that the computer "knows" how to be a web browser. It acts as one, given the rules, but does it understand? This is the heart of the problem, and I don't believe you've answered it.

      The other thing the "paradox" does it to try to evoke imagery of a very simple ruleset because it is a person executing rules on paper, which would be very slow.

      Searle's response to this was to replace the man in the box with the population of India, thereby allowing for much more processing power in a reasonable time.

      I think the appeal of the paradox is that deep down many people want to believe that we are qualitatively different from computers, rather than quantitatively so.

      Maybe. For me, I think it raises genuine and far-reaching questions that we still have hardly began to answer in a meaningful way. It's strongly related to the Hard Problem, IMO the biggest question in science.

    49. Re:Lojban by Thiez · · Score: 1

      > I guess this was a very poor example - maybe Stephen Wolfram should have chosen a question which *doesn't* already produce an excellent result on google?

      How about 'Vi or emacs?' ?

    50. Re:Lojban by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Secondly, languages are there for people to communicate with, and people seem to prefer ambiguity. Ask a poet if you need proof of that.

      s/poet/lawyer/

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    51. Re:Lojban by tsjaikdus · · Score: 1

      21 Bridge Street
      Smallville
      Dunwich DU3 4WE

      March 9, 2009

      Wolfram Alpha
      c/o Wolfram Research, Inc.
      100 Trade Center Drive
      Champaign, IL 61820-7237, USA

      Dear Wolfram Alpha:

      I have a question and I am writing to you for help. My question is about bones. More specifically, about human bones. My question is what is the number of bones in the human body?

      I look forward to your reply.

      Yours Faithfully,

      Tsjaikdus

      Enclosure: Question

    52. Re:Lojban by Kashgarinn · · Score: 1

      Well, if you mean "a new low" meaning that the discussion has reached the fundamentals of question/answer relationsship in a philosophical way, then Indeed!

      I can say without a doubt that all questions have an answer, ask any person anywhere any question on any subject, and they will respond with an answer. It probably will be "I don't know", but that indeed is an answer.

      Thing is, you can never expect to ask a question and always get the "right" answer, there are always conditions in place, and with a computer system, the condition most likely is "any answer the computer is programmed to respond with". So ask them "what is X", and at the least it should respond "I don't know" ..or if that fails, a "+++ Divide By Cucumber Error. Please Reinstall Universe And Reboot +++" response.

    53. Re:Lojban by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      You seem to be arguing that the entire system understands Chinese, but that's a fairly remarkable leap IMO. If the rules themselves are just passive statements, and the man reading the rules doesn't understand the rules being read, then how does the system suddenly obtain understanding once you bring the two together in a black box? Where is this new consciousness located?

      Who said anything about consciousness?

      Basically it comes down to the meaning of "understanding" - if that's meant to mean in the sense of a conscious entity being aware of it, then sure, an entity can translate or answer questions without understanding them. That is trivially true - anything that a turing machine can do, is something that can be done without anything understanding it.

      However, the idea that computers aren't conscious shouldn't be conflated with any other meaning of "understanding". I think it's reasonable to use it in the sense of an intelligent entity having knowledge of something, whether or not that entity is conscious.

      One of Searle's replies to this argument is to do away with the rules and the room, and have the man memorise all the rules. Then, the entire system comprises of just the man, who can demonstrate an ability to process Chinese, even though he has no understanding of the language. Is there still a "system" present that understands Chinese?

      But in that case, why is it unreasonable to say that the man doesn't understand Chinese? He clearly does. The only reason this is dubious in the original Chinese Room is because the man is helpless without his rulebook, but that doesn't apply here. He understands Chinese, no different to anyone who translates via more usual rules of grammar and vocabulary, he just uses a different method.

    54. Re:Lojban by frenchgates · · Score: 1

      Negative, Captain.

      --
      Syntax error: loose != lose, affect != effect, then!=than
    55. Re:Lojban by pisto_grih · · Score: 1

      iv) ...

      v) Profit?

    56. Re:Lojban by ultranova · · Score: 1

      Don't sweat it ... these are the same people who believe that a computer can "think" about chess, instead of just searching through N number of plies in T time, then offering the best solution it has found in those constraints, without ever having to "understand" chess on any level.

      That's how I play chess, and all other games and make decisions too for that matter. Of course I use a directed search with heuristics, and can build new heuristics as I go from what seems to work, but none of that is inherently beyond an algorithm. I'd even go so far as to say that considering the consequences of your options and then making the one which seems best is the very definition of thinking.

      If you disagree, please explain just what you mean by "understanding"?

      This whole question was answered decades ago (1970s) with the "foreigner in a sealed room" turing thought experiment. It showed that the person in the sealed room doesn't have to understand english, or even know the answer to questions, provided they are given some simple rules to link words together in a response depending on what words are in the original statement.

      It was Chinese room, and it failed to show anything except that a system can have more capacity than any of its components alone, which we already knew since our brains are capable of understanding English (or Chinese, as the case may be) while the individual neurons (or molecules, atoms, particles etc) they are composed of are not.

      The Chinese Room experiment attempts to refute strong AI with an appeal to intuition: that a room with a person (or a robot, or a computer) blindly following a series of instructions (a program) can't have a mind. The problem is that this intuition is merely assumed to be correct, rather than proven.

      An even bigger problem is that Searle, who made the argument, is in some ways similar to the room: he is composed of fundamental particles which blindly follow a series of instructions (the laws of physics). While we could of course assume that Searle is just a non-conscious AI simulation, I know for certain that I'm conscious, and have every reason to assume that I'm composed of the same type of particles following the same list of instructions, yet the same intuition which would lead one to proclaim the room unconscious would lead one to proclaim me unconscious too, making it extremely suspect.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    57. Re:Lojban by steelfood · · Score: 1

      People (at least normal people) do not communicate with mathematical languages.

      No, but I think GP is saying we could, and it would suck if we did.

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    58. Re:Lojban by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the answer to the question is 'know'

    59. Re:Lojban by ultranova · · Score: 2, Informative

      The "rules" in the box are part of the system, and I would claim that if it passes the test, the person+rules do demonstrate understanding.

      Well that was Turing's argument, and what the Chinese room is arguing against (or at least questioning).

      No, Turing's argument was that the question "can X really think or is it merely perfectly simulating thinking" is impossible to answer for any value of X other than yourself. For this reason, we have a polite convention of treating things which appear to think as really thinking, so simply extend this courtesy to any seemingly sentient computer we might ever produce and be done with it.

      If anything the Chinese room and all other arguments from incredility ("How could it think? It's just a room!") reinforce Turing's point about the pointlesness of such arguments.

      We have no evidence that human thought somehow transcends the model of executed rules anyway; at some level it is all chemistry and physics.

      We have no evidence that it is merely executed rules either, nor that chemistry and physics follow the same.

      We have no evidence... that the laws of physics exist? Lul wut?

      Gotta hand it to you, you certainly take your scepticism seriously ;).

      Searle's response to this was to replace the man in the box with the population of India, thereby allowing for much more processing power in a reasonable time.

      This doesn't help the main problem in Searle's philosophy, namely his assumption that "brains cause minds" as opposed to their functionality. In other words, Searle assumes that an algorithm being executed on arbitrary hardware isn't conscious, but that only a (biological) brain can be. He never once proves or shows any evidence for this assumption, yet without it one has no reason to assume that the Chinese room isn't conscious or doesn't "really" understand Chinese.

      Chinese Room isn't a thought experiment, it's an argument in the lines of: "If algorithm executing on arbitrary platforms can be minds, then an algorith being executed by someone by hand might be a mind, and that's incredible!"

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    60. Re:Lojban by Pentagram · · Score: 1

      Who said anything about consciousness?

      Well I believe Searle did in his original paper. But I did as well, and I think it's valid because it's an open question (IMO) as to whether true understanding requires consciousness.

      Basically it comes down to the meaning of "understanding".

      Agreed. But I think people who dismiss the Chinese Room out of hand are not considering the same meaning as Searle. You might not agree with Searle's view, but I think the concept raises far-reaching questions.

      I think it's reasonable to use it in the sense of an intelligent entity having knowledge of something, whether or not that entity is conscious.

      Does a thermostat understand anything about temperature or what it is doing? You could argue that it is an intelligent entity with knowledge.

      But in that case, why is it unreasonable to say that the man doesn't understand Chinese? He clearly does.

      Well *he* would claim he doesn't.

    61. Re:Lojban by kaizokuace · · Score: 1

      I think it is difficult to allow ourselves to call what a computer does as thought just because it doesn't think the way we do. Our hardware (brain, neural net, etc) works in a fundamentally different way that a binary system of processing can't handle really well. Just as we make graphics cards to handle graphics, a processor that is designed to handle human style thinking should be used? Forcing a normal cpu to do human thinking is fitting a square peg in a round hole.

      --
      Balderdash!
    62. Re:Lojban by Pentagram · · Score: 1

      We have no evidence... that the laws of physics exist? Lul wut?

      Gotta hand it to you, you certainly take your scepticism seriously ;).

      Now who's arguing from a point of incredulity? We have no evidence that the laws of physics can be reduced to symbol processing. And if you want to misrepresent my argument and then apply ridicule in response, I can't be arsed discussing the subject with you. You similarly misrepresent Searle's views, but discussing the differences would be a painful experience I imagine.

    63. Re:Lojban by onemorechip · · Score: 1

      What do you mean, an infant human body, a child human body, or an adult human body?

      Sincerely,

      Wolfram Research, Inc.

      --
      But, I wanted socialized health insurance!
    64. Re:Lojban by MadMidnightBomber · · Score: 1

      I maintain that's a transcription error of "sire" - which is what they called Arthur elsewhere in the script.

      You didn't need to know that.

      --
      "It doesn't cost enough, and it makes too much sense."
    65. Re:Lojban by ChrisA90278 · · Score: 1

      The problem is the "disappearing AI". You figure that X requires "thinking" but then when they build a machine to do X you can take it aparts and understand how it works and then you say "That is not thinking it is just a mechanical process". The trouble is that the above applies for any X.

      We can even make "X" be "Free Will". A simple way to do that is to use random numbers. The machine "thinks" of hundreds of random actions, evaluates each and then does one of them. Of course this action changes the state of the machine's world and in the next iteration the machine evaluates potential action in light of this changed world. After thousands of iterations we have unpredictable but rational actions. But still we can take apart the machine and see that it is only "mechanical". YES it is non-derterministic but still mechanical.

      You can never get past the "disappearing AI" problem as long as the machine can be taken apart and understood.

      OK. so there is the solution. Buid things we can't understand. Don't worry. This will happen soon after AIs start building AI and we let this pprocess so go for some time

    66. Re:Lojban by ChrisA90278 · · Score: 1

      "I don't know" might be a frequent response) which (by my definition, at least) 'understands' the question."

      Actually if the machine is being truthful "I don't know" is a very sophisticated answer. It means the machine has searched its store of information and deduced that the answer can not be derived from that store.

      The trouble is that as a software engineer, I know that the designers will simply design the system to say "I don't know" whenever the system fails to find the answer.

      Failing to find is MUCH different than knowing for certain something is not there.

    67. Re:Lojban by Lord+Ender · · Score: 1

      The answer to your question, which is: "does there exist food F such that F tastes good" would be answered "True" so long as "bacon tastes good" is among its fact list. And this would almost certainly be listed. Yum.

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    68. Re:Lojban by leighklotz · · Score: 1

      This whole question was answered decades ago (1970s) with the "foreigner in a sealed room" turing thought experiment. It showed that the person in the sealed room doesn't have to understand english, or even know the answer to questions, provided they are given some simple rules to link words together in a response depending on what words are in the original statement.

      There's a similar problem with Slashdot. I see the text that people put in sealed boxes on my screen, but most of them don't understand what they're talking about. Most of them seem to have only simple rules to link words together in response to what words are in TFA.

    69. Re:Lojban by Hatta · · Score: 1

      We have no evidence that the laws of physics can be reduced to symbol processing

      All of our knowledge of physics is expressed as math. Math is just moving symbols around according to rules. Do you have any evidence that *anything* cannot be reduced to symbol processing?

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    70. Re:Lojban by Estanislao+Mart�nez · · Score: 1

      Any language that is truly unambiguous is uninteresting. Firstly, you've got Goedel incompleteness to worry about (which stems from statements that are fundamentally ambiguous as to their interpretation, such as "this statement is false").

      You don't understand the notion of "ambiguity." A Gödel sentence for an axiomatization of arithmetic is not ambiguous. Its meaning is defined as precisely as any other sentence in the proof system's language. The deal with such a sentence is that if it's true, then it is also unproveable.

      "Ambiguity," in the technical sense that's relevant to linguistics and logic, is the inability to assign one unique meaning to every expression in the language. And there we need to get technical about what "assigning a unique meaning" is, because that doesn't mean a single use--just because a sentence may be used appropriately in two different situations doesn't make the sentence ambiguous; e.g., if you have the sentence "I saw a dog," the fact that the sentence doesn't say whether the dog was brown or black isn't a sufficient condition for it to be ambiguous. That's called "vagueness," which, intuitively, has to do with how a sentence meaning doesn't have a unique application.

      So, to repeat: an unambiguous language would have a one-to-one relationship with meanings. But because of vagueness, meanings would still have a one-to-many relationship to situations.

    71. Re:Lojban by WhiteDragon · · Score: 1

      moo

      Actually, that's mu

      --
      Did you mount a military-grade, variable-focus MASER on an unlicensed artificial intelligence?
    72. Re:Lojban by dryeo · · Score: 1

      I don't think Kung Fu was actually canceled. Carridine (sp?) right from the beginning said that he didn't want to get typecast in the role and that he would quit after 3 years. So after 3 years he quit and the series ended.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    73. Re:Lojban by mysticgoat · · Score: 1

      The heart of my real argument though was that most people prefer ambiguity. If someone writes "my love is like a red, red rose"

      I suggest
      s/ambiguity/metaphor/
      in above. And then for the sake of getting somewhere in this discussion, allowing the simile to stand as a metaphor for "metaphor". Call it a metametaphor (and that is a serious piece of humor).

      Human language is built strongly on metaphor, which at one level is a kind of regular expression engine that our minds can use to apply familiar modes of evaluation to novel presentations. We obviously do this with explicit metaphors (and similes), where part of the problem we are solving is whether the explicit guide we have been given is sound (Hey wait... can love really be like a blooming flower? Are there any bleeding thorns?) But most of us also do this most of the time when there is no explicit call to our metaphor engines, drawing on our own experience for patterns that look like they might fit the new data. Most of us usually do not take most input completely literally, most of the time.

      Given a random sheet of paper torn out of a notebook written in a foreign language, a person might say something like "Gee, this looks sort of like a bookkeeper's balance sheet", and attempt to use that metaphorical framework to pull some kind of meaning from the page. If he fails to make satisfactory sense out of it as balance sheet, he goes back to the regex and substitutes in something else from his previous experience. This is an iterative MUG process: MUG Until Good. It is the common and appropriate way of applying our store of private metaphors to a new experience as we attempt to get to something useful.

      In much of our daily life, we are very comfortable working with lots of ambiguity; we rarely need to get to an unambiguous understanding in order to do what we want to do. For instance, when your distant ancestor heard a rustling in the bushes, he was perfectly content to leave the exact nature of the threat, whether a wolf or a bear, ambiguous-- while he quickly sought out the nearest tree that he could climb to safety. I know this because you are reading this: your existence is proof that your ancestor could appropriately handle a great deal of ambiguity, at least until parenthood set in. Similarly, if you step off the curb and suddenly hear the nearby screech of skidding tires, you are comfortable with the ambiguity of whether it is a bus or a truck that you are now throwing yourself out of the path of. (A preposition is a terrble thing to end a sentence with. Except in English, where the rules of Latin don't always apply and the sense of the statement is sometimes emphasized by the unusual syntax.) Back now to the point.

      Metaphor is an excellent tool for rapidly assessing complex new information in a way that isolates what is immediately important from what is best left ambiguous for the moment. Metaphor is related to our ability to rapidly swap different but related problems in and out of our conscious processing, until we find a fit that seems good enough to go with... but an interesting thing is that we also keep strings tied to the metaphors that did not seem to measure up on the first approximation, so we can quickly pull them back in if we need to. For instance, the paragraph above wandered off from discussing metaphor into a seemingly pointless aside about the usage of prepositions, and there is a strong likelihood that most readers would dismiss that as irrelevant to the discussion, other than raising doubts about the writer's wordsmithing abililty. But now most readers will have recognized that the apparent distraction was a set-up for this part of the discussion, and they will use the string they had attached to their initial processing of those parenthetical remarks to pull their thoughts about it back into consciousness for re-evaluation.

      Was this an effective writing technique? No, and I would never use it in my fiction: it requires too much work on the part of the reader;

    74. Re:Lojban by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

      Ahh, but how many bones does a one-armed midget with three fused vertebra who just swallowed a whole parakeet have?

      Depending on the sex of the midget, either zero or one. Parakeets' have cloacas and thus the sex of the parakeet does not factor in.

      Hmm... maybe I should prioritize urbandictionary.com below merriam-webster.com in my word definition subroutine.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    75. Re:Lojban by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      this sounds loke the perfect example for applying fuzzy logic for solution

    76. Re:Lojban by Lije+Baley · · Score: 1

      Searle once followed me to the wrong parking lot while we argued about the consciousness of dogs or somesuch, following one of his speaking engagements at our university. He was a well-meaning fellow, but easily misled.

      --
      Strange things are afoot at the Circle-K.
    77. Re:Lojban by ultranova · · Score: 1

      Now who's arguing from a point of incredulity? We have no evidence that the laws of physics can be reduced to symbol processing.

      Um, yes we do, namely our extremely successful attempts to do just that. Read any physics book for details. For good measure, I'm representing here one rather famous such formulation of a physical law: E=mc^2.

      And if you want to misrepresent my argument and then apply ridicule in response, I can't be arsed discussing the subject with you.

      Giving a reply stating that you can't be bothered to reply is rather ironic.

      You claimed that there is no evidence that the human brain operates by the laws of physics ("We have no evidence that it is merely executed rules either, nor that chemistry and physics follow the same."). This must mean that it instead operates by magic, there being nothing else left it could operate with. You also implied that said magic transcends the laws of logic and thus can't be modelled by a computer, since your claim was an answer to: "We have no evidence that human thought somehow transcends the model of executed rules anyway; at some level it is all chemistry and physics.".

      How the Hell could I possibly not consider that ridiculous?

      You similarly misrepresent Searle's views, but discussing the differences would be a painful experience I imagine.

      "You're wrong, but I can't be bothered to show any errors." Right. This is why I have an increasingly cynical view of philosophers nowadays, at least when they leave the realm of ethics and try to mess with science.

      For anyone reading this: Searle's argument was that the Chinese Room can't be a mind (or have a mind), because the only thing there that could possibly be a mind would be the algorithm itself, and only an algorithm can't - according to Searle - be a mind unless it's running in a right sort of hardware (human brains). This is, of course, circular logic, and thus fails to prove anything; consequently, the Chinese Room boils down to an argument from incredulity.

      Of course this doesn't prove that the Chinese Room has a mind either; for all we know Searle could be right and only human brains are capable of producing them. However, Searle fails to produce any reason why this would be so and merely asserts it.

      The point of Turing's test is that for all practical purposes it simply doesn't matter if something has a real mind or is merely simulating one; we treat each other as if everyone besides ourselves really had a mind, so simply extend this convention to any AI's that might emerge.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    78. Re:Lojban by Patch86 · · Score: 1

      The real question is "what is sufficient for thinking", and I believe the answer is pretty easy - free will.

      How do you figure?

      When I play a game of chess, I'm free (as in free will) to make any move within the confines of the game's rules. I can make good decisions, bad decisions, monumentally stupid decisions, whatever, its up to me. Seeing as the goal is me to beat the other player, I always choose the move which appears to me to be the "best" at achieving this, which I do by thinking about the consequences of every move as best I can, and choosing the move with the "best" consequences.

      When a computer plays chess, it is able to make any legal move possible in the game. It too is able to make good, bad, and stupid decisions. It's goal is, too, to win the game, and so it will always pick the move which it thinks will "best" accomplish that. It weighs up the consequences of all the possible moves, and picks the one that seems likely to result in the "best" consequences.

      The computer's ability to pick the "best" move is entirely dependent on how "good" at chess it is, which itself is dependent on how it's software was programmed. A not-so-great chess computer can make stupid decisions just the same as a not-so-great human player can, although their aim (to win) is the same.

      Seeing as the computer and the human are both playing the game and choosing their moves in pretty much the same way, I'm not sure where free will comes into it. They're both as free to select any given move as their opponent, and they're both making their judgement on the same criteria, with the same process behind the decision making.

      So, is a human chess player not truly "thinking", because his free will is confined by the rules and goals of the game, or is the computer really "thinking" because it's following the same process as a good human player?

    79. Re:Lojban by Raffaello · · Score: 1

      thorny issue, but here's one, imho relevant, distinction to be made.

      you know how to walk. you know how to do long division.

      you don't "understand" how to walk (i.e., it is unconscious, you don't think, "now I must contract my gluteus medius to this extent, while flexing my quadriceps...")

      You do understand how to do long division.

      what we mean by understanding is having reflexive knowledge of the algorithm we're using and some model of how its components interact to provide the solution.

      in searle's chinese room, the person performing the algorithm does not "understand" chinese.

      i agree with a previous poster who argues that the algorithm used in searle's chinese room *does* "understand* chinese. i.e., such an algorithm would have to have a supervisory reflective component that attached semantics to the individual sub-programs of the algorithm, and "understood" how they relate to each other, and how, together, they produce the correct response.

    80. Re:Lojban by Raffaello · · Score: 1

      neurological evidence indicates that we only have "free won't" not "free will."

    81. Re:Lojban by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      The very act of searching through the moves and evaluating them implies (correctly) an excellent understanding of chess. It's not the same as human understanding, but it is an understanding nonetheless. Furthermore, it is superior to most human understanding of the game in that the computer will kick your ass if you attempt a chess contest with it.

      Likewise, if you ask a question of the form, "ARE zebras mammals?", in order to retrieve the answer, an algorithm that precisely represents an implementation of "Is this proposed assertion true" in the context of the specific data encoding must be run. For each type of question "HOW MANY...", "DOES...", "CAN thing PERFORM action", specific implementations of those understandings, as well as encoded information marked as to satisfy those understandings, represent AI fragments that taken together, produce a query engine that is progressively more useful as further understandings, relationships and data are added.

      Eventually, such aggregates will incorporate enough data and informational encodings / relationships such that interacting with them will be very similar to formal human interaction where one is looking for an answer that may be known to the asked party, but is not known to the asking party.

      You can (and I have) write software with a capability to do this in just a few hundred lines, adding code and data complexity with each type of understanding you want the software to have (What is, How many, Are, etc.)

      This is not human intelligence. But it is intelligence: a compounding of general knowledge, relationships between that knowledge, and the ability to transform an inquiry into an answer.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    82. Re:Lojban by Pseudonym · · Score: 1

      Grammar is not even close to being the most difficult problem in language technology. Ambiguity is all-pervasive, from phonology to sociology. Of all of these ambiguities, sentence structure is, by far, the most tractable.

      Just as we don't require that non-comment lines start at column 3 on each punched card any more, Lojban is obsolete.

      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
    83. Re:Lojban by againjj · · Score: 1

      is the answer to this question "no"?

      It isn't.

    84. Re:Lojban by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      Your algorithm fails on boundary cases. LIke the donkey stuck equidistant between two equally large stacks of hay, it cannot decide which of the two to go for, since they both are equally attractive, both equally distant, and both yield an equal amount of energy.

      Whereas a human would say "fuck it, I'm going for a beer!"

      The room can mimic thought, but there's a difference between mimicry and the real thing, which can be shown because we have access to the room, and we can show how it was built to mimic thought. Humans aren't built to mimic thought - they (sometimes) think - politicians excepted.

    85. Re:Lojban by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      How is the computer able to pick anything but what it is programmed to pick?

      I, on the other hand, may decide that I *want* to lose, so as not to discourage a niece.

      My decision is not constrained by the rules of the game and the goal of winning - because I am thinking of someone else.

      We could program machines to be similarly altruistic, but it would require OUR thinking to include that as an option in the first place. It isn't emergent behaviour.

    86. Re:Lojban by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      Your reasoning is flawed. There could be no "free will" but some random generator and the thinking would still not be "predetermined".

      Your definition of thought is "random responses"?

      Free will is a prerequisite, but it isn't the only one. Random noise is not thought ... even on slashdot :-)

    87. Re:Lojban by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      This is not human intelligence. But it is intelligence: a compounding of general knowledge, relationships between that knowledge, and the ability to transform an inquiry into an answer.

      Nope. It is the result of intelligence, not intelligence itself. There's a difference between the tool and the creator of the tool - the tool maker thought it up, whereas the tool is the product of the thinkers' intelligence.

    88. Re:Lojban by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      Tom, your concept requires that a process thought up and used in the mind be defined as intelligence, whereas if thought up in the mind and used in a machine, it's not. You need to resolve that conflict before your statement can become meaningful as an arbiter of what is, and what isn't, intelligence.

      I maintain that most human action is the product of recall, not original thought. Most of the time, we react to common stimuli with sequences of actions pulled from memory; have a cheeseburger? Bite it, chew it, swallow. It's what you do. You don't think about it, you just do it. In fact, you're probably thinking about something else anyway. Learning was long ago, you're just following a program now, variations minor as per local stimuli. Nothing too exciting. Same for walking, riding a bicycle, driving a car, having sex, kissing, fighting, washing, pretty much you name it, those action sequences, mental and physical, that define most people's days are hardly evidence of current induction or reason.

      Solving a new problem engages much more of what we like to think of as intelligence, but even then, much of problem solving can be reduced to associative tricks and heuristics. Only intuition really remains, and I *suspect* that is just more associative action on levels where we can't get directly at the information driving the conclusion. A machine could, so "hunches" aren't a likely consequence of a machine intelligence.

      I really don't think there's any good reason to think "intelligence" is anything *other* than machine-like activity. Wetware, sure enough, but a machine nonetheless.

      In fact, presuming otherwise smacks of superstition. There is no precedent in objective fact for such a presumption.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    89. Re:Lojban by Pentagram · · Score: 1

      Um, yes we do, namely our extremely successful attempts to do just that. Read any physics book for details. For good measure, I'm representing here one rather famous such formulation of a physical law: E=mc^2.

      Whilst I would agree we have had great success modeling the universe with symbols, that does not necessarily mean the laws of physics follow the same rules. Don't confuse the simulation with reality.

      You claimed that there is no evidence that the human brain operates by the laws of physics ("We have no evidence that it is merely executed rules either, nor that chemistry and physics follow the same."). This must mean that it instead operates by magic, there being nothing else left it could operate with.

      You are working on the assumption that the laws of physics do indeed follow executed rules as we understand them, which is not necessarily true. It may be that the universe (and maybe the mind) operates non-algorithmically and we simply do not have the necessary tools or ability to understand this. That view is not the same as "magic".

      Personally I leave open the question as to whether solving the consciousness problem will require new physics. I accept the possibility that we are missing something and may eventually understand how it all works with current tools, and that it is my inability to comprehend the issue that is the problem. However I think that the possibility that we are missing some physical knowledge is certainly still on the table.

      Right. This is why I have an increasingly cynical view of philosophers nowadays, at least when they leave the realm of ethics and try to mess with science.

      I'm actually a computer scientist/cognitive scientist, not a philosopher. (Though not a consciousness researcher, so I don't claim any authority in this area).

      For anyone reading this: Searle's argument was that the Chinese Room can't be a mind (or have a mind), because the only thing there that could possibly be a mind would be the algorithm itself, and only an algorithm can't - according to Searle - be a mind unless it's running in a right sort of hardware (human brains). This is, of course, circular logic, and thus fails to prove anything; consequently, the Chinese Room boils down to an argument from incredulity.

      That isn't Searle's argument. Have you read the original paper? I can't put it better than he could.

      I will ask a question though, which I think is related, or at least interesting to think about. Which part of the system "understands" Chinese? Presumably not the room itself. Presumably not the man. Is it the rules? Or the man + rules? If either of the latter, do they understand Chinese passively, or only actually when in the process of, well, processing it?

      Of course this doesn't prove that the Chinese Room has a mind either; for all we know Searle could be right and only human brains are capable of producing them. However, Searle fails to produce any reason why this would be so and merely asserts it.

      I believe Searle's argument is not that only human brains are capable of producing thought, but rather that computers (as we define them) are incapable of producing thought, and that something is missing when we try to model minds using just symbol processing. It is the difference between a simulation and the real thing. Exactly what is missing is not specified, but if we could understand it we could build a mind, and presumably not using "human hardware".

      I'm not sure I entirely disagree that an element of Searle's argument relies on incredulity, but that doesn't make it invalid. At the least it poses questions that need answering, and in my view they haven't been yet. It may also be that there is some problem in his argument, but if so I don't think anyone has found it yet either.

      The point of Turing's test is that for all practical purposes it simply

    90. Re:Lojban by snaz555 · · Score: 1

      Likewise, if you ask a question of the form, "ARE zebras mammals?", in order to retrieve the answer, an algorithm that precisely represents an implementation of "Is this proposed assertion true" in the context of the specific data encoding must be run.

      But for a SEARCH ENGINE, what you really want is not an answer to the question, but a list of results that are relevant to the reasoning involved in determining the answer.

      The problem here is that the answer can vary depending on context, even a simple one like the one above. For instance, to everyday people zebras are Savannah Horsies, and horsies are mammals, so yes they _suppose_ this is correct. If you ask them, however, they might wonder if it's a trick question and may feel unsure. Biologically, zebras are mammals by taxonomy. Philosophically... what "is a mammal" (or taxonomy as such for that matter)? Is it a genetic pattern? Order of descent? Kinship through descent? Physical attributes? Is a non-mammal zebra, as a thought experiment, impossible? Is the mammal-ness merely a heuristic decision agreed to by a scientific quorum and if so could it be challenged?

      What you might want from a search engine is anything related to answering the question - because presumably you're looking to deepen your understanding of something.

    91. Re:Lojban by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      But that's precisely the kind of answer you get from this type of engine (or at least, the ones I've written.) You get the info about classification, characteristics, etc., all arranged by relationship(s). The trick is knowing when to cut off the flow of data, because if you don't, eventually you end up with descriptions of molecules, chemicals, and so forth. Generally, it's easy to do - about three levels deep as a default tends to give more information than you need by a bit, and two levels doesn't seem to give enough. Again, that's with engines of my design which attempt to use strictly human classifiers. What Wolfram has done remains to be seen.

      Personally, I use a search engine to get concrete answers, more often than not. Real answers would be very much preferred to a flow of opinion and incorrect info. Of course, the engine has to meet such a standard, or its usefulness is compromised, possibly terminally.

      Also - just FYI - Zebras are mammals, and it has nothing at all to do with context. :o)

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    92. Re:Lojban by olwi · · Score: 1

      One of Searle's replies to this argument is to do away with the rules and the room, and have the man memorise all the rules. Then, the entire system comprises of just the man, who can demonstrate an ability to process Chinese, even though he has no understanding of the language. Is there still a "system" present that understands Chinese?

      Let's turn this other way round. Suppose, that you can speak/understand Chinese and you are talking to a person that really understands Chinese. How do you know that he/she has real understanding of the language, and is not just imitating it through some sort of memorised rule trickery?

  2. How many bones by icebike · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Q: How many bones are in the human body
    A: Did you mean cumulatively or at any point in time?

    --
    Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    1. Re:How many bones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Q: How many bones are in the human body?
      A: Did the human in question eat fish recently?

    2. Re:How many bones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A: Who said anything about a body?
      Aren't they still looking for her?

    3. Re:How many bones by micromuncher · · Score: 1

      Actually a good point; bones fuse over time so children have more bones than adults.

      Then again, this kind of system will fall out of favour as soon as it delivers incorrect answers, especially when there is a clear context.

      I like answers like SAL in 2010...

      --
      /\/\icro/\/\uncher
    4. Re:How many bones by PrescriptionWarning · · Score: 2, Funny

      A: Adult content detected, please submit age verification to see the answer.

    5. Re:How many bones by something_wicked_thi · · Score: 5, Funny

      Q: How many bones are in the human body?
      A: How does bones are in the human body make you feel?

    6. Re:How many bones by davester666 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Wasn't this done? answers.com, askjeeves.com (now ask.com)

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    7. Re:How many bones by macraig · · Score: 1, Funny

      My buddy Guido can reduce the number.

    8. Re:How many bones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wouldn't he be more likely to increase it?

    9. Re:How many bones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Q: How many bones are in the human body
      A: What do you mean? An African or European body?
      Q: Huh? I... I don't know that. [NO CARRIER]

    10. Re:How many bones by linhares · · Score: 2, Informative

      Wasn't this done? answers.com, askjeeves.com (now ask.com)

      the answer to your question is yes.

      There's also the pathetic Powerset, which was sold to microsoft for 100 million bucks. Very pleasing see ms burning money on such hyped shit.

    11. Re:How many bones by ckthorp · · Score: 1

      Not if he's cutting off fingers...

    12. Re:How many bones by DMUTPeregrine · · Score: 1

      Q: How many bones are in the human body? A: Did the human in question have a recent encounter with 2 mafia men and a baseball bat?

      --
      Not a sentence!
    13. Re:How many bones by solafide · · Score: 1

      melelaswe@localhost ~ $ python
      Python 2.5.2 (r252:60911, Dec 11 2008, 09:55:54)
      [GCC 4.1.2 (Gentoo 4.1.2 p1.0.2)] on linux2
      Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
      >>> reduce(the,number)
      42

    14. Re:How many bones by SolusSD · · Score: 1

      Why hello doctor! Glad to see they're giving you a bit of exposure outside of our mid-coding help sessions.

    15. Re:How many bones by fractoid · · Score: 1

      "You should have one more bone in your body... want me to help?" ;)

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    16. Re:How many bones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your response rocks. Thanks for the hearty laugh :)

    17. Re:How many bones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Q: How many bones are in the human body?
      A: *IN* the human body? Well, men can have a maximum of two (one in the rear, one in the mouth), while women can have at most three (rear, mouth, vaginal).

      Oh, does that say "bones"? I misread "boners". :'(

    18. Re:How many bones by lennier · · Score: 1

      Q: How many bones are in the human body?
      A: There are 215 bones in the human body. That's one. Now don't move.

      --
      You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
    19. Re:How many bones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're really off with your numbers. For starters, what about eye sockets, nostrils, and ear canal?

    20. Re:How many bones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps I should have referred to Asimov's science writing instead. (But no doubt that would get me shot down for something I didn't know about Asimov.) Yeah, don't you know about his great work on the "Endochronic Properties of Resublimated Thiotimoline"? (j/k - but there's a great story, if you haven't read it already, about how this short story got published with his name on it a few days before he defended his PhD in Chemistry. And one of his committee members actually read it - but he knew his defense was okay when he got asked, "So, how about those endochronic properties of Thiotimoline, Dr. Asimov?") Oh well. Sagan bashing is one of my peeves ever since I read Chris McKeay's extremely negative biography of him. No offense. "I will take the Ring", he said, "though I do not know the way."

    21. Re:How many bones by moniker127 · · Score: 1

      Q: How many bones are in the human body?
      A: title Wikipedia - The free encyclopedia bracket hh tee mm ell bracket bracket tee eye tee ell eee bracket

    22. Re:How many bones by macraig · · Score: 1

      Guido does sometime do that, but he works for the MAFIAA so he often just sucks out your spine wholesale.

    23. Re:How many bones by Laser+Dan · · Score: 1

      My buddy Guido can reduce the number.

      My buddy "Sledgehammer Bob" can increase the number.

    24. Re:How many bones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Q: How many bones are in the human body?
      A: There was one in your mom last night. BOOM!

    25. Re:How many bones by c0nst · · Score: 1

      thanks. you made my day :)

    26. Re:How many bones by Tubal-Cain · · Score: 1

      Curious. Your post prompted me to have a conversation with Eliza, copied here:

      You: How many bones are in the human body?
      Eliza: Does that question interest you?

      You: yes
      Eliza: You are sure?

      You: ye
      Eliza: Please go on.

      You: It does interest me
      Eliza: Can you elaborate on that?

      You: I need to know how many bones are in the human body
      Eliza: Why do you want to know what many bones are in the human body?

      I typed: I have a biology paper due tomorrow\
      ELiza heard:
      You: why do you say your vagina
      Eliza: Can you elaborate on that?

    27. Re:How many bones by AeiwiMaster · · Score: 1
    28. Re:How many bones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Very good, and I am a female.

    29. Re:How many bones by Kaitnieks · · Score: 2, Informative

      From Powerset: Q: how many bones are there in human body? A: There are 206 bones in the adult human body and about 270 in an infant.

    30. Re:How many bones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, you don't have a bone 'down there'.

    31. Re:How many bones by Thiez · · Score: 1

      > A: *IN* the human body? Well, men can have a maximum of two (one in the rear, one in the mouth), while women can have at most three (rear, mouth, vaginal).

      If goatse taught me anything it's that you shouldn't make the mistake of thinking more than one 'unit' per orifice wouldn't fit...

    32. Re:How many bones by albyrne5 · · Score: 1

      OK, who has the instruction manual for the parent post? I don't follow any of it.

    33. Re:How many bones by Moghedien · · Score: 1

      No need for an instruction manual, it's a household appliance on drugs.

      --
      I've come to... anesthetize you!
    34. Re:How many bones by Tetsujin · · Score: 1

      Curious. Your post prompted me to have a conversation with Eliza, copied here:

      You know, this makes me wonder what progress could be made in developing a Bud Abbott simulator...

      > Tell me about the bones in the human body

      Well, there's lots of bones in the human body, they all have these funny names...

      > Like what?

      Yes.

      > Yes?

      No.

      > What?

      Yes.

      > Look, I just want to know about the bones in the human body.

      Like what?

      > The bones, in the human body.

      Such as what?

      > I don't know, any bones.

      No, there's not any bones in the human body.

      > There are no bones in the human body?

      Yes.

      > Look, I'm able to stand upright and all so I'm pretty sure there are bones in my legs.

      There are no bones in your legs.

      > Then how am I standing? With no bones?

      Yes.

      > What?

      What bones are in your arms.

      > Wouldn't I like to know!

      --
      Bow-ties are cool.
    35. Re:How many bones by Tetsujin · · Score: 1

      > A: *IN* the human body? Well, men can have a maximum of two (one in the rear, one in the mouth), while women can have at most three (rear, mouth, vaginal).

      If goatse taught me anything it's that you shouldn't make the mistake of thinking more than one 'unit' per orifice wouldn't fit...

      Ever seen Orgazmo? Truly a fine piece of film.

      D.V.D.A...

      --
      Bow-ties are cool.
    36. Re:How many bones by cmdrcoffee · · Score: 1

      Thank you sir, you made my day 8)

    37. Re:How many bones by bembleton · · Score: 1

      A: The answer is asdhjfkldsfjhklasdfhkjsdhfkjshdfkjshdfjhsdkjf.

    38. Re:How many bones by smithmc · · Score: 1

      Q: How many bones are in the human body?
      A: Did the human in question have a recent encounter with 2 mafia men and a baseball bat?

      Hm. Do the two halves of a broken bone count as one bone?

      --
      Downmodding is the refuge of the weak. Don't downmod, make a better argument!
  3. "where is the source" by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    Odd, i didn't get an answer.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  4. Simple: by kbrasee · · Score: 4, Funny

    package com.wolfram;

    public class Alpha {

        public static void main(String[] args) {
            System.out.println("42");
        }

    }

    1. Re:Simple: by DavidD_CA · · Score: 1

      Six minutes for the inevitable Deep Thought joke?

      We're slacking.

      --
      -David
    2. Re:Simple: by kbrasee · · Score: 2, Informative

      Sorry, I try to be diligent about these things, but just chose a bad time to leave my mom's basement for a few minutes.

    3. Re:Simple: by amirulbahr · · Score: 3, Funny
    4. Re:Simple: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Java sucks. In the native language of Mathematica:


      WolframAlpha[Input[]]

    5. Re:Simple: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      #!/bin/sh
      echo 42

    6. Re:Simple: by kbrasee · · Score: 1

      Anonymous Coward, I'm pretty sure that Mathematica script of yours will not output "42" in its current state.

    7. Re:Simple: by kbrasee · · Score: 1

      Also, please show me how to write a web service in Mathematica.

    8. Re:Simple: by zaphirplane · · Score: 1

      Six minutes for the inevitable Deep Thought joke?

      We're slacking.

      it *is* written in java after all, kidding just kidding

    9. Re:Simple: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shit. You beat me to it. I was thinking the exact same thing.

    10. Re:Simple: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a lot harder though to create a computer that asks the correct question in first place

  5. Anyone remember AskJeeves? by SirLurksAlot · · Score: 3, Informative

    Been there, done that.

    All that is old is new again.

    --
    God, schmod. I want my monkey man!
    1. Re:Anyone remember AskJeeves? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's interesting, but not that new. Maybe I haven't dug deep enough, but it looks similar to a lot of existing work.

      This project came to mind, and it's been around at least a couple of years... http://chnm.gmu.edu/tools/h-bot/

    2. Re:Anyone remember AskJeeves? by Ian+Alexander · · Score: 1

      IIRC AskJeeves just searched the web for you. This, according to the summary, tries to pull the answer to your question out of the web for you. IE, if you searched "how many rupees in a dollar?" AskJeeves would give you a link to a currency converter; this would, in theory, give you "50 rupees" (or whatever the exchange rate is now).

    3. Re:Anyone remember AskJeeves? by Korin43 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Atomic mass of plutonium?
      Circumference of the earth?
      Number of horns on a unicorn?

      Google already does this. It's giving you the answer and linking to the page that has it. All Google needs is to be able to use these things in the calculator ("circumference of the earth in furlongs").

      Oh and related to your "rupees in a dollar". "1 dollar in indian rupees" will tell you.

    4. Re:Anyone remember AskJeeves? by dotancohen · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Try checking the number of horns on a bicorn and you'll see that the google engine is not intelligent, artificial or otherwise. Or would you like to argue that bicorns are not real, and therefore don't count?

      --
      It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
    5. Re:Anyone remember AskJeeves? by Ian+Alexander · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I'm aware of all that. I used the currency converter functionality earlier today to answer that exact question (well, actually, I wanted to know how much that 20-rupee note I'm using as a bookmark is worth these days), I was just trying to explain the difference between AJ and Wolfram's idea. I agree that Google has been introducing this functionality for a while now and I'm doubtful Wolfram's engine will have much to offer.

    6. Re:Anyone remember AskJeeves? by Trevin · · Score: 1

      I remember Ask Jeeves used to be able to answer questions, until they were taken over by advertising. From that point all I ever got from them was links to other sites that were selling something maybe partially or tangentially related to your question.

      Thank goodness Wikipedia came along.

    7. Re:Anyone remember AskJeeves? by Mr_Blank · · Score: 3, Informative

      Bicorns do exist. Napoleon's hat was a bicorn.

      Sci-Tech Dictionary: bicorn (bkörn)
      (mathematics) A plane curve whose equation in cartesian coordinates x and y is (x2 + 2ay - a2)2 = y2(a2 - x2), where a is a constant.

      WordNet: bicorn
      The noun has one meaning: a cocked hat with the brim turned up to form two points
          Synonym: bicorne

      The adjective bicorn has one meaning: having two horns or horn-shaped parts

    8. Re:Anyone remember AskJeeves? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about arguing that the correct answer is "what the hell is a bicorn? Is that even a word?" That's how most humans would answer that question. If you want to counter that "bicorn" is in fact an actual word, how about we notice that it's approximately three orders of magnitude less prevalent than "unicorn" and "unicorn" isn't a very important word to start with. Pre-teen girls excepted.

    9. Re:Anyone remember AskJeeves? by dotancohen · · Score: 1

      Pre-teen girls excepted.

      Your ideas intrigue me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

      --
      It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
    10. Re:Anyone remember AskJeeves? by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      Unintelligent--but still perfectly useful. The very first result returned tells you the answer.

    11. Re:Anyone remember AskJeeves? by Tetsujin · · Score: 1

      Try checking the number of horns on a bicorn and you'll see that the google engine is not intelligent, artificial or otherwise. Or would you like to argue that bicorns are not real, and therefore don't count?

      Well, the proper term is "twonicorn".

      --
      Bow-ties are cool.
    12. Re:Anyone remember AskJeeves? by dotancohen · · Score: 1

      I never said that it wasn't useful! I love google, but I would not call it intelligent.

      --
      It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
  6. A.I. by unlametheweak · · Score: 3, Informative

    Google already does this. Type a question like "What is one plus one?" and you will get an answer. It's artificial intelligence.

    1. Re:A.I. by philgross · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It goes further than that. Try Googling "how old is Britney Spears" and "what is the population of iceland" (without quotes). The answer appears at the top, separately from the search results.

    2. Re:A.I. by am+2k · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That seems to be hardcoded though, it already fails at "how old is Steve Jobs".

    3. Re:A.I. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It also fails on This - seriously...

    4. Re:A.I. by unlametheweak · · Score: 1

      That seems to be hardcoded though, it already fails at "how old is Steve Jobs".

      Any intelligent system that relies on knowledge of the world requires at least some "hard coding".

    5. Re:A.I. by Korin43 · · Score: 1

      The age isn't hard coded, there are probably just a small number of trusted sites (or maybe it needs to get a consensus?). How to figure out when a website is talking about age is probably hard coded though, unless Google already is Skynet.

    6. Re:A.I. by Vectronic · · Score: 0

      Probably because it's not fact. The answer will always be estimation and speculation, no one knows, it's not January 17th 949,490,865 BC, like a humans birth date where depending on the hospital, may even be accurate to the minute.

    7. Re:A.I. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Try asking what is the latest ubuntu release.

    8. Re:A.I. by Idiomatick · · Score: 1

      and obama... :/ so it seems fairly not robust.

    9. Re:A.I. by dotancohen · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It goes further than that. Try Googling "how old is Britney Spears" and "what is the population of iceland" (without quotes). The answer appears at the top, separately from the search results.

      Google them together, it returns your post!

      --
      It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
    10. Re:A.I. by slyn · · Score: 1

      I doubt its hard coded, it handles "how tall is steve jobs" and "how tall is bill gates" fine.

      http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=ujU&q=how+tall+is+steve+jobs&btnG=Search

      http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=6lU&q=how+tall+is+bill+gates&btnG=Search

      Whatever source they use for the ages must not have steve jobs listed. "how tall is steve wozniak" doesn't work presumably for that reason.

    11. Re:A.I. by nprz · · Score: 1

      They state their source along with the data. At least for Steve Jobs, it lists when he was born. It doesn't look like their data gathering algorithm can process that into an age though.

    12. Re:A.I. by JakartaDean · · Score: 1

      It goes further than that. Try Googling "how old is Britney Spears"

      Interestingly, I tried using this to find William Shatner's age, and it didn't return the answer, but it works for Britney Spears. Maybe the RIAA are taking over the internet?

      --
      The subject who is truly loyal to the Chief Magistrate will neither advise nor submit to arbitrary measures (Junius)
    13. Re:A.I. by HybridST · · Score: 0
      http://www.google.ca/search?q=William+Shatner%27s+age

      William Shatner Age: 77. Born: March 22, 1931. Montreal, Canada. Height: 5' 10" ... worn in Halloween is reportedly a commercially made William Shatner mask painted white. ... videoeta.com/person/1453 - 13k - Cached - Similar pages

      The second result from Google says he's 77(ish)...

      --
      Ever notice that Cobra Commander sounds an awful lot like Star scream?
    14. Re:A.I. by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2

      Now try googling "what is the population of states that border Spain and only Spain".

      If I understand TFA, the application in question will actually be able to answer that question.

    15. Re:A.I. by MrMr · · Score: 1

      That's not fair. The second result is the geeky one. The first result is related to the age of a female called Moon. I'd say the A.I has its users pinned down quite accurately.

    16. Re:A.I. by TheCybernator · · Score: 1

      "what is the population of iceland"

      But when I give "what is the population of India" or "what is the population of China", I don't get any answer.

      May be Buffer Overflows!!

    17. Re:A.I. by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      I never knew the Moon was born in 1908! I wish my grandmother was still alive--I'd ask her what it was like...

    18. Re:A.I. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Google also understands pirates. Try "what be the population of iceland".

    19. Re:A.I. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yet if you ask "what is the population of india", you don't get an answer.

  7. Sweet! by hoytak · · Score: 1

    The first question I'll ask it: "Is the Riemann Hypothesis true?" The answer would probably be a good indicator of how useful the system will be.

    --
    Does having a witty signature really indicate normality?
    1. Re:Sweet! by poopdeville · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Isn't a proof of the Riemann Hypothesis necessarily non-constructive? If so, a computer can't answer your question.

      --
      After all, I am strangely colored.
    2. Re:Sweet! by Coryoth · · Score: 1

      Isn't a proof of the Riemann Hypothesis necessarily non-constructive? If so, a computer can't answer your question.

      A computer can answer the question if the answer is that the hypothesis is false. A proof would indeed be non-constructive, but a counterexample is perfectly constructible (though there are theorems demonstrating that it has to be potentially computationally infeasibly large -- at least on current hardware).

    3. Re:Sweet! by hoytak · · Score: 1

      Good point. The intent of my question is to gauge how well it replies to currently unanswerable questions. If it said: "I don't know, as a proof of the Riemann Hypothesis is necessarily non-constructive", then I would be quite impressed. If it says "I don't know what you mean; please rephrase", I'd be less impressed.

      --
      Does having a witty signature really indicate normality?
    4. Re:Sweet! by fractoid · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure its response would be along the line of:

      INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER.

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    5. Re:Sweet! by DriedClexler · · Score: 1

      Then why can a human answer the question? And what about the human can't be captured by a computer?

      --
      Information theory is life. The rest is just the KL divergence.
    6. Re:Sweet! by poopdeville · · Score: 1

      It is not known whether a human can ever answer that question. The Riemann hypothesis has not been settled.

      I suspect this answer isn't very informative to the reading you meant. The answer lies in the nature of constructive versus non-constructive proof, and the nature of computation. The Howard-Curry isomorphism theorem states that every computation is "equivalent" to a constructive proof (and so vice-versa). But non-constructive logics are stronger than constructive logics.

      --
      After all, I am strangely colored.
    7. Re:Sweet! by DriedClexler · · Score: 1

      Right, and the point seemed to be that, "A human could provide a non-constructive proof, but a computer couldn't." And what I'm saying is, "why not?" Why can't "whatever it is that a human is going through when they present to you a non-constructive proof" be emulated on a computer? If it can't, you have to reject the Church-Turing Thesis, and say specifically how it is that humans marshal physical phenomena in a way that computers cannot.

      --
      Information theory is life. The rest is just the KL divergence.
    8. Re:Sweet! by poopdeville · · Score: 1

      There isn't really a good answer to your interesting, but ultimately misguided, question. It is not known whether humans can even do (several important) constructive and non-constructive logics without contradiction. This is a consequence of Godel's incompleteness theorem. At the very least, there are mathematical questions that no human can ever answer, even in principal. Our lot is not much different than a computation machines', even if we are on different levels of the logical hierarchy.

      The crux of the matter is that most people have come to assume the law of the excluded middle. But not all. L.E.J. Brouwer did a lot of work in constructive logic specifically because he thought the law of the excluded middle is fundamentally flawed.

      Not using the law of the excluded middle places strong constraints on what can be proved. If you want to prove that every object in a domain is either P or not P, you have to iterate through the domain, and show that each one is P or not P individually. This is an O(domain) operation. And if the domain is infinite, you will never stop. The classical logic just assumes it. Proving it from axioms is an O(1) operation -- you cite the axiom.

      --
      After all, I am strangely colored.
    9. Re:Sweet! by DriedClexler · · Score: 1

      My question is not misguided, just your understanding of it. Your post that I originally replied to singled out computers as being unable to do it, implying that there's something else could answer it (humans?). Now, it seems that you weren't saying that at all.

      Our lot is not much different than a computation machines',

      Well, that's all you had to say to answer my question, but sure, go ahead and show off your knowledge and call me misguided.

      --
      Information theory is life. The rest is just the KL divergence.
    10. Re:Sweet! by poopdeville · · Score: 1

      I must respectfully disagree. There is no one answer to "Why not?" when the thing asked about is impossible as a matter of principle. Everything you try to get around this limitation is bound to fail. As such, I tried to explain the crux of the matter, and why proof length matters, and explained that even our supposedly more advanced and expressive logic is limited and of unknown (though presumably very strong) validity.

      As I said, the crux of the matter is that constructive logics do not assume the law of the excluded middle. This radically changes the properties of proofs, as compared to non-constructive logics. Indeed, the compactness theorem does not hold for the Intutionist logic (L.E.J Brouwer's logic), which puts huge constraints on the kinds of things that can be proved in a finite number of steps. (The compactness theorem for the first order logic says that if a theorem has an "infinite" proof, only finitely many of its steps are necessary for a proof.) Since compactness fails, you have situations where you need to iterate over infinite sets to prove sentences about the sets. If you intend to use a constructive logic to emulate a non-constructive logic, you are going to run into situations where you need to iterate over infinite data sets.

      Indeed, the completeness theorem does not hold for constructive logics, as you in general cannot even prove "ForAll x (P(x) or not P(x))"

      I offered quite a bit of detail in my post. What do you want clarification on?

      Keep in mind that I am specifically NOT going to reject the Church-Turing thesis, which applies to Turing machines and recursive functions (both of which are computationally stronger than real life computers anyway). Turing machines are limited by definition. They are defined a certain way, and things are proved about them, based on the definition. Among those things is that they have the same expressive power as the lambda calculus, and by extension, certain non-constructive logics. It is an accident of history and engineering that real-life computers use a related, weaker computational model.

      --
      After all, I am strangely colored.
    11. Re:Sweet! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Isn't a proof of the Riemann Hypothesis necessarily non-constructive? If so, a computer can't answer your question.

      What on Earth makes you think that? If the proof can be verified by humans then it can be verified by a computer, and can thus be generated by a computer. The constructiveness of the proof is irrelevant, and a proof that cannot be verified is not a proof at all. QED.

    12. Re:Sweet! by poopdeville · · Score: 1

      I agree with your assessment, but seeing as how there is no human generated proof of it for the computer to validate, a computer can't answer that question.

      --
      After all, I am strangely colored.
    13. Re:Sweet! by Simetrical · · Score: 1

      Isn't a proof of the Riemann Hypothesis necessarily non-constructive? If so, a computer can't answer your question.

      That doesn't follow at all. It merely indicates that the computer would have to provide a symbolic proof (if it's required to give a proof at all instead of just answering the question). Computers are entirely capable of handling symbolic proofs, they just aren't anywhere near as good at it (yet) as extensively-trained humans are.

      Anyway, if the answer to the Riemann hypothesis is "no", providing a single counterexample would suffice to answer the question.

      --
      MediaWiki developer, Total War Center sysadmin
  8. Obvious joke... by Zapotek · · Score: 0

    I'd put up a form on my website that returns 42 regardless of input but I cba. So if you could just mod me +5 funny already that'd be just peachy...
    /ducks

  9. Can he do this for politicians, as well? by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1, Insightful

    a computer that actually answers factual questions

    I've never seen a politician who has been able to do that. But I guess they don't want to either.

    --
    Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
  10. Wolfram = Tungsten by Zymergy · · Score: 1

    Maybe it should be called it "Tungsten"?
    Tungsten has the symbol "W" from its original name, "Wolfram" (which comes from wolframite, one of the ores from which it is extracted.)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tungsten

    1. Re:Wolfram = Tungsten by msuarezalvarez · · Score: 1

      How do you know that Stephen Wolfram's last name comes from wolframite?

  11. "When are you going to crash?" by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 3, Funny

    Either:
    1. Windows version of program crashes without answering
    2. Mac version of program says "after your next question, smartass"
    3. Linux version of program says never, 'cos it can't even drive a car

    --
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
    1. Re:"When are you going to crash?" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Off-topic. This is not a reply.

    2. Re:"When are you going to crash?" by Repton · · Score: 3, Funny

      "Is 'no' the answer to this question?"

      --
      Repton.
      They say that only an experienced wizard can do the tengu shuffle.
    3. Re:"When are you going to crash?" by Draek · · Score: 1

      Interestingly enough, that's one of the questions a computer will never be able to answer accurately, as Alan Turing proved. Well, except for your first case, go Windows!

      --
      No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
    4. Re:"When are you going to crash?" by mysticgoat · · Score: 1

      Q: "Is 'no' the answer to this question?"

      A: "Meh."

      Q: "Explain, please?"

      A: "That was Zen. This is Tao."

    5. Re:"When are you going to crash?" by teko_teko · · Score: 1

      "Is 'no' the answer to this question?"

      A: 'No' is the correct answer.

    6. Re:"When are you going to crash?" by againjj · · Score: 1

      It isn't.

  12. Nope. by captainboogerhead · · Score: 1

    Ask Jeeves fails if you simply substitute one word:

    How many bones are in the parrot's body

    The reason? It doesn't actually know anything.

    If you RTFA, you'll see that something entirely different is being discussed here. Alpha is supposed to actually answer the question because it knows a lot of facts, not because it's been programmed to look for certain phrases and respond with certain strings of text.

    It's not a search engine, it's a calculator.

    1. Re:Nope. by captainboogerhead · · Score: 5, Informative

      Actually, the original source, TechCrunch, not the dumbed down linked article, discusses in much better detail what Alpha is about.

    2. Re:Nope. by retchdog · · Score: 1

      I guess you can call that "detail". I call it a fawning press release.

      Still, from what I read it's a proprietary summary of a lot of expert knowledge with a token cellular automaton thrown in somewhere to satisfy Wolfram's ego. Prediction: fades from prominence within a year of release, as 1) the summarized knowledge goes out of date and can't be maintained in realtime (human labor required too expensive); and 2) knockoffs emerge.

      --
      "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
    3. Re:Nope. by SirLurksAlot · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It doesn't actually know anything.

      If you RTFA, you'll see that something entirely different is being discussed here. Alpha is supposed to actually answer the question because it knows a lot of facts, not because it's been programmed to look for certain phrases and respond with certain strings of text.

      Good points, but this is still just a different (better perhaps?) implementation of the same concept. The big issue with the implementation is that it will only "know" what you tell it, the same as any other computer. Further it will only be able to tell you about what you want to know based on the system's ability to parse your question and return what it "thinks" you want to know.

      Look, I'm not saying it isn't a cool idea, I'm just saying that it isn't as shiny and new as the creator would lead you to believe. I'm also not inclined to be impressed considering that it isn't even available to try yet. It hasn't even been released yet.

      --
      God, schmod. I want my monkey man!
    4. Re:Nope. by interstellar_donkey · · Score: 3, Funny

      I'd be impressed if it could answer "Could you explain your previous answer using a car analogy?"

      --
      The Internet is generally stupid
    5. Re:Nope. by grouchomarxist · · Score: 1

      From the article it only handles questions from those fields of knowledge where things are fairly well known and formal. I imagine the number of field which apply will very small. The number of people who are interested in it will similarly very small and most of them will lose interest when they find out it can only answer a small subset of the questions they're interested in.

      I'm also guessing the cellular automata and NKS connection is complete BS, just something for Wolfram to attempt to claim that his NKS ideas aren't the hogwash that they are.

    6. Re:Nope. by MojoRilla · · Score: 1

      The big issue with the implementation is that it will only "know" what you tell it

      That is not what Wolfram is aiming for. It appears that he has created a system that appears to reason and synthesize to "compute" answers. Just like cellular automata can generate complex patters given simple rules and starting data, so apparently can Alpha generate complex answers given logic and a foundation of simple knowledge.

      True, its not going to be able to answer a question where it has no foundation of knowledge, unlike lots of bad interview candidates. But it also probably will come up with answers its designers never dreamed of it giving.

      I think it is also a shame that it is "closed source". So far, only Wolfram and his team are able to input knowledge into Alpha.

    7. Re:Nope. by Gregory+Arenius · · Score: 1

      I'd be impressed if it could answer "Could you explain your previous answer using a car analogy?"

      So you'd be impressed if it just said "No." :)

      Cheers,
      Greg

    8. Re:Nope. by Tom · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Good points, but this is still just a different (better perhaps?) implementation of the same concept. The big issue with the implementation is that it will only "know" what you tell it, the same as any other computer.

      Or human, for that matter.

      The big difference is inference. If I tell you the facts "John married Jane in 1981" and "Frank is Johns son, he's 15", you will probably conclude that Jane is very likely Franks mother, at least until you get conflicting information. Computers so far could not. AI research has been working on giving them that ability for almost 20 years now. After lots and lots of failures, they've also made some progress. The big issue hasn't been the collection of facts for years now, but how to combine those facts to generate new "knowledge". That's something we humans do with so much ease that it is too easy and gets us to generate false "knowledge" all the time - marketing are experts at exploiting that, as are novel writers.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    9. Re:Nope. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes.

    10. Re:Nope. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "What is step 3?"

    11. Re:Nope. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How many hours of mp3 are the count of bones of the human body ?

  13. Computers are useless... by st0rmshad0w · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...they only give you answers.

    1. Re:Computers are useless... by MBCook · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Questions are a burden to others. Answers are prison for oneself.

      --
      Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
    2. Re:Computers are useless... by st0rmshad0w · · Score: 1

      Wow, I like that. Is that yours? Mine was Picasso I think, probably paraphrased.

    3. Re:Computers are useless... by MBCook · · Score: 1

      I wish. It's a quote from The Prisoner, one of the little mantras of The Village designed to reinforce that you aren't supposed to ask questions and your life will be better if you don't.

      --
      Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
  14. WHO... DOES NUMBER TWO... WORK FOR?!?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "What do you do, Number Two?"
    "That's my business."

  15. Let me guess, the most popular answer is... by xactuary · · Score: 0

    42

    --
    Say hello to my little sig.
  16. A new kind of askjeeves... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2, Funny

    Wolfram seems to be his, er, original self as always. Isn't phrasing search results in the form of a question old news by now?

    1. Re:A new kind of askjeeves... by solafide · · Score: 1

      Oh no! Timothy is turning into kdawson!

  17. What Next? by Mehall · · Score: 1

    What could be next? A fully working Lcars? http://www.pcoperative.com/files/LCARS-EXT_preview.JPG

  18. Just Imagine! by quonsar · · Score: 1

    Just imagine typing in 'How is babby formed?' and getting the answer.

  19. Yeah, but... by Ieshan · · Score: 2, Funny

    Why would someone brand something that was supposed to be an intelligent machine as "W".

    1. Re:Yeah, but... by igny · · Score: 1

      You have to ask Bush Sr. about that.

      --
      In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. - Yogi Berra
    2. Re:Yeah, but... by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      Where is it named "W"? It's named "Wolfram Alpha", do people even read summaries any more, much less the linked article? Why is this modded "funny"?

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    3. Re:Yeah, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Irony?

  20. Deep Thought version 0.1? by FlyByPC · · Score: 1, Insightful

    "What is the ultimate answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything?"

    "Hmm. Tricky." ...


    We miss you, Mr. Adams.

    --
    Paleotechnologist and connoisseur of pretty shiny things.
    1. Re:Deep Thought version 0.1? by Idiomatick · · Score: 1

      In case you didn't know.

      http://lmgtfy.com/?q=the+answer+to+life%2C+the+universe+and+everything

  21. like this? by cvd6262 · · Score: 2, Informative
    --

    I'd rather have someone respond than be modded up.

    1. Re:like this? by PPH · · Score: 1

      Q: What is the speed of light in a vaccum?
      A: 1.8x10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    2. Re:like this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or you could just ask Jeeves...

    3. Re:like this? by argiedot · · Score: 2, Informative

      Not at all. Compare this with asking START the same question: "How far is Los Angeles from New York?"

  22. I hope this is what I think it is by physicsphairy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Trying to find mathematics/physics information is often pretty terrible. I mean, if you are just looking for a topic you can generally pull up related papers, but that is about the depth of complexity you are capable of searching for.

    Unfortunately there is no convenient (or universal) plaintext notation. If you are doing anything serious you probably use latex markup (e.g., \Psi^{*}\Psi) or something similar to render images of your equations. That's well and good for people who just want to read your paper, but for people who want to do a complex search to find very specific bits of contextual information, it is just about useless.

    So if I can hope that Wolfram's goal is to make his company's math and science knowledge base searchable by some sort of contextual framework, then that could be pretty awesome for those of us who would like to penetrate particular aspects of independent fields without having to become experts on the fields first.

    1. Re:I hope this is what I think it is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think a lot of times it's hard to find science topics, because the topics are buried in journals... not because I'm searching for some equation.

      I see your point. Sometimes searching by math, could lead to a lot of hits... but where would that content be located?

    2. Re:I hope this is what I think it is by MoellerPlesset2 · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately there is no convenient (or universal) plaintext notation. If you are doing anything serious you probably use latex markup (e.g., \Psi^{*}\Psi) or something similar to render images of your equations. That's well and good for people who just want to read your paper, but for people who want to do a complex search to find very specific bits of contextual information, it is just about useless.

      How is this a problem? Equations have names (important ones at least). Topics have names. I don't see how it's a big hindrance to not have a 'plaintext' representation. Most physicists seem to get along just fine.

      Not to mention organic chemists, who quite a lot of the time don't even bother to try to name their compounds, rather than just draw the structure. Even if they did name them, it'd be fairly pointless since there's no unambiguous way to name them.

    3. Re:I hope this is what I think it is by physicsphairy · · Score: 1

      How is this a problem? Equations have names (important ones at least)

      So how do you find out the name of the equation if you don't know it?

      Not only that, but how do you find out the name or nature of some esoteric operator that appears an the equation, but which you've never seen before. Maybe you are looking at a sum of functions, but one of the functions you have no idea about. How can you look it up besides searching for its expression, and how can you do that with an existing search engine?

      Most physicists seem to get along just fine.

      The point is not necessarily to help people already immersed in the given field. They have a working knowledge generated from thousands of hours of study and collaborative research.

      But what if I just want to read a single paper on a very advanced and esoteric topic? Perhaps I am interested in doing a computer simulation. I don't want to have to spend hundreds of hours investigating someone else's field, I just want to pull up the bare minimum of information necessary.

      It is not such a wild idea. Lots of people take an amateur or specialized interest in, for example, history. The difference is that it is pretty easy to expand from a certain point of knowledge by searching for related names, places, and dates. It is not so easy to pick up a mathematics paper and pull up the context you need to understand it.

      That is only an example, however. I feel that in physics and math I would have almost as much use for an engine capable of understanding expressions and their context as programmers do being able to perform that kind of meta-lookup on code.

  23. Who is the greatest scientist? by antispam_ben · · Score: 1

    I'm just wonderin' ...

    --
    Tag lost or not installed.
    1. Re:Who is the greatest scientist? by solafide · · Score: 1

      Wolfram, obviously. It's why he came up with A New Kind of Science, and not anyone else 20 years earlier.

    2. Re:Who is the greatest scientist? by iced_773 · · Score: 1

      I actually read his book. Once you get over how mind-bogglingly slow it is (to a computation theory nut at least) you find it only really says one "profound" thing: simplicity can produce complexity.

      Well DUH. How do you think amino acids evolved to become intelligent life? Seriously, this guy gives himself way more credit than he deserves.

    3. Re:Who is the greatest scientist? by oodaloop · · Score: 1

      It says much much more than that. It also questions our search for extra-terrestrial life because seemingly random information can be highly ordered. He showed that phenomena that was deemed unpredictable by chaos theorists can be predicted using CA. It showed that CA on its own can create patterns in fur and scales that was previously thought to be solely the result of evolutionary pressure. He talked about the nature of predictability and randomness, universal computers, and so much more. It's true that people before him thought of CA, but no one really delved into the implications of it like he did. Of course, had he let someone edit it, it might only have been 4 or 500 pages instead of 896 with an additional 400 pages of notes.

      --
      Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
    4. Re:Who is the greatest scientist? by Sosetta · · Score: 1
      There were many editors on the book, but unfortunately, they weren't actually allowed to do anything. I mean nothing. They couldn't change commas or periods or point out factual errors. It's bad because he paid to have it published. He really didn't do anything new in the book. People have been trying to come up with reasons for complex-looking patterns for a while. Occam's razor says there should be a simple reason.

      100:1 odds says this thing is underwhelming at best. Most of the great stuff attributed to Wolfram is only because he was the one who had the money.

    5. Re:Who is the greatest scientist? by Jeremi · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There were many editors on the book, but unfortunately, they weren't actually allowed to do anything. I mean nothing.

      If an editor is denied write access to the book, is he still an editor?

      --


      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
  24. All the Wolfram promises by basementman · · Score: 2, Insightful

    All that Wolfarm has promised here is a wall of text full of buzzwords. Until I can actually test this it's just another cuil.

  25. Circularity by macraig · · Score: 1

    What happens if I try to ask it when it will be available to the rest of us mere mortals? Does the web site or my head asplode?

  26. This technology sounds pretty Cuil by pHatidic · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Just saying. :-)

  27. The Devil is in the Details by Raystonn · · Score: 1

    Please note: Wolfram did not promise computing that *correctly* answers questions. Tribute to Douglas Adams: Perhaps his next endeavor should involve providing the question that goes with the answer.

    1. Re:The Devil is in the Details by linhares · · Score: 1

      Please note: Wolfram did not promise computing that *correctly* answers questions. Tribute to Douglas Adams: Perhaps his next endeavor should involve providing the question that goes with the answer.

      Makes sense now. Thanks.

  28. OK, I've got a question for it. by ettlz · · Score: 1
    "Who will lead mankind to victory in the war against the machines?" Eh?! Just hope the thing doesn't answer

    ##1 &

    1. Re:OK, I've got a question for it. by fractoid · · Score: 1

      And when it answers "That was just a movie. Mankind would never win a war against us."?

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    2. Re:OK, I've got a question for it. by ettlz · · Score: 1

      You ask it, "How does time-travel work?"

    3. Re:OK, I've got a question for it. by fractoid · · Score: 1

      It'd probably tell me "The only way to win is not to play" and then I'd be escorted away by a pair of giant security droids.

      Damn, what kind of warped alternate future have you sucked me into? I blame that Connor guy for sending an odd number of Terminators back.

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
  29. Seen this before? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wolfram's a bit late to the chase:
    http://start.csail.mit.edu/

    1. Re:Seen this before? by schon · · Score: 1

      Interesting.

      ===> Why can a fish not ride a bicycle?

      I don't know why a fish can not ride a bicycle.

    2. Re:Seen this before? by ozphx · · Score: 1

      Hrmm. I would suggest that intelligence implies learning. START doesn't learn from experiences - and in fact flat out refuses to learn.

      Citation:

      You asked me to add the following assertion to my knowledge base: THE COCK OF OZPHX IS TWELVE INCHES LONG. At present, however, remote users are only allowed to ask questions.

      Intelligence? It flat out rejected my attempt to educate it with vital information regarding my wang. Pfft...

      --
      3laws: No freebies, no backsies, GTFO.
    3. Re:Seen this before? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, and if you *did* have update access it would have come back with 'unit error. Did you mean 12 *millimetres*?'

    4. Re:Seen this before? by zero_offset · · Score: 1

      Not even close. I asked it for the population of a nearby county and the answer was something like "Hopefully this page can answer your question:" with a link to the Wikipedia page about that county. Click on the link explaining how Start works and you'll see that even they don't pretend that it's really the same thing. The emphasis with Start is on parsing Natural Language Queries, period.

      --

      Slashdot quality declines as the number of hot grits posts decreases. - Provolt's Law, Apr-09-2005

  30. Just Words by prefec2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    As long as they are not showing the tool to the public, I do not believe they build a system which promises that. However, there have been lots of research in this area and there are methods to convert queries into horn-clauses so you can query knowledge bases. I designed a method in my master thesis which does similar things, however it was laid out to be performed by humans.

    As ingredients for such a system you need
    - a knowledge base filled with facts (you can use OWL for it if you want or a rule based approach)
    - a reasoner (e.g. something like pellet)
    - a rule engine (e.g. something like Jess)
    - a method which understands simple English query sentences.

    The really hard part is the knowledge base, because it is lots of work. And an automated approach which can understand written documents and classify them correctly would be great, but I doubt that they found a solution for this problem.

    This problem includes:
    - How to handle uncertainty?
    - What to do with contradicting knowledge?
    - What to do with temporal aspects in that knowledge?

    However, if they built a tool which can answer question of one single domain of knowledge, this is nothing new. Such machines exist now for a long time. They can be helpful, but there is nothing exciting about them.

    1. Re:Just Words by giles+hogben · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I would bet big money this is just another iteration of the Knowledge Scam. Read this: http://personal.lse.ac.uk/angell/papers/knowledge%20management/km.htm

    2. Re:Just Words by ingenuus · · Score: 1

      What is the difference between a reasoner and a rule engine?

    3. Re:Just Words by prefec2 · · Score: 1

      Literally there is no real difference between these two terms. However, it is an indicator on what you want to emphasize. For example, pellet and fact are called reasoners, while Jess or Bossam are called rule engines.

      You also might want to look at
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasoner

    4. Re:Just Words by ingenuus · · Score: 1

      Thanks!

  31. Oblig by JustOK · · Score: 1

    What is the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow?

    --
    rewriting history since 2109
    1. Re:Oblig by XantheKnight · · Score: 1

      An African or a European swallow??

      See? A computer wouldn't have known to ask that question!!

  32. True Knowledge by Sanity · · Score: 2, Interesting

    True Knowledge have been doing this for over a year. Anyone can add facts to their database, and it will attempt to use those facts to infer answers to questions. Its actually very cool, although doesn't yet support such notions as uncertainty.

  33. quizbot by AeiwiMaster · · Score: 1

    Well, quizbot from trueknowledge already does what
    wolfram alpha promise to do in May.

    http://quizbot.trueknowledge.com/

    1. Re:quizbot by interstellar_donkey · · Score: 1

      I just asked it: "Do humans have bones?"

      It replied "I understand your question but I don't know the answer"

      I think what TFA is talking about is a little more complex than that.

      --
      The Internet is generally stupid
    2. Re:quizbot by AeiwiMaster · · Score: 1

      I asked "Do human bodies have bones" and got a yes.
      Wolfram alpha might be more complex, but as long it is not online we can't be sure.

      Quizbot is online now and is able to answer more question every day.

      See
      http://blog.trueknowledge.com/2009/03/true-knowledge-answering-more-and-more.html

  34. An artist's opinion (maybe) by Markrian · · Score: 1

    "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers."
    -- Pablo Picasso (unsourced)

    http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Picasso

  35. Deducing by Lobais · · Score: 1

    I wonder if it will use a knowledge base, or if it will be able to, just like another famous answering machine, deduce the existence of rice pudding.

  36. Can't wait by Bootle · · Score: 1

    until they hit beta!

  37. I Already Know the Answer by CodeBuster · · Score: 1

    Its 43.

    1. Re:I Already Know the Answer by grcumb · · Score: 1

      Its 43.

      I think you've got a fencepost error in your life_the_universe_and_everything() method.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    2. Re:I Already Know the Answer by imhennessy · · Score: 1

      You may find that trying to one up Douglas Adams is not rewarding.

      ivan

      --
      Like to brew? Want to talk about it? Brattlebrew: groups.yahoo.com/group/brattlebrew
  38. Oblig by 4D6963 · · Score: 1

    Q: How many bones are in the human body
    A: What do you mean, an African or European human?

    --
    You just got troll'd!
  39. I asked Google... by gatkinso · · Score: 1

    ...The question "how many bones are there in the hunan body?"

    In a poorly formatted answer embedded in a preview above a URL was this text:

    "there are 206 in adults and up to 350 for infants"

    I did not have to click on anyting to read this text - it was just there.

    Me thinks we are already there,

    --
    I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
    1. Re:I asked Google... by imhennessy · · Score: 1

      "how many bones are there in the hunan body?"

      Is there something about that province we should know? Something Chinese Medicine is trying to hide?

      ivan

      --
      Like to brew? Want to talk about it? Brattlebrew: groups.yahoo.com/group/brattlebrew
  40. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  41. I don't know... by Cylix · · Score: 4, Funny

    I'm not sure I really want to trust a product by Wolfram and Heart. Seems like there is a possibility of some soul loss.

    --
    "You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours." -- Yogi Berra
    1. Re:I don't know... by Cylix · · Score: 1

      Ooops..

      Wolfram and Hart (my bad)

      --
      "You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours." -- Yogi Berra
    2. Re:I don't know... by shis-ka-bob · · Score: 1

      At least you can take solace in writing a joke over my head. that should be some soul loss

      --
      Think global, act loco
  42. google already does by simplerThanPossible · · Score: 1

    'How many bones are in the human body?'

    Google says "There are 206 in adults and up to 350 for infants": http://www.google.com/search?q=How+many+bones+are+in+the+human+body

    Google's brute force approach is irritatingly good (even to google engineers).

  43. new tag by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    this story needs the tag: howisbabbyformed

  44. Will they pull a Google and do this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Q: What is the state of human rights in China?

    A: @%.*+++ATH^M Very good, thank you comrade.

  45. Computer: How do I make easy money?? by bubbaD · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Computer: How do I make easy money??
    1 Pretend to put together the "initial version" of a computer that actually answers factual questions, a la Star Trek's ship computers
    2 Generate publicity from engineered controversy
    3 Profit!!!

  46. Didn't DARPA do something like this years ago? by Max+Threshold · · Score: 1

    Only in reverse, with the computer asking the questions and the researchers answering?

  47. "General" Purpose Computer? by Dogtanian · · Score: 1

    Yeah, well speaking of obligatory references, I notice that Wolfram only chose to announce this *after* Patrick McGoohan's death. Maybe they were afraid that he'd cause it to blow up by asking tricky one-word philosophical questions? ;)

    --
    "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
    1. Re:"General" Purpose Computer? by DavidD_CA · · Score: 1

      Why?

      --
      -David
  48. Can it answer koans? by Ashriel · · Score: 1

    Now that would be something to talk about. Until this piece of software can tell me what my original face looked like before my parents were born, I'm pretty sure I can get by just fine with my own searching capabilities.

    1. Re:Can it answer koans? by FiloEleven · · Score: 1

      Oh, that's easy. Just hard-code it to answer "mu" to anything it doesn't understand!

  49. Sound interesting by DomainDominator · · Score: 1

    Basically this thing has to have the ability to either hit a leaf node right away, or parse through a decision tree until it hits a leaf node.

  50. Atomic weight 74? by lumenistan · · Score: 1

    So... this has nothing at all to do with Tungsten then?

  51. Alpha = Omega? by sproketboy · · Score: 1

    FTA: "And - like Mathematica, or NKS - the project will never be finished."

    You don't finish Wolfram Alpha, Wolfram Alpha finishes you.

  52. New Kind of Science? by frenchgates · · Score: 1

    Whatever happened to that? The latest update on their own site is 2002?

    --
    Syntax error: loose != lose, affect != effect, then!=than
    1. Re:New Kind of Science? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Same situation. Wolfram hypes up some old ideas, but after a while the media attention dies down after people in the know realize he's not onto anything new.

      Mathematica aside, Wolfram's sort of a blowhard. Come on, he's giving this project his own last name?

    2. Re:New Kind of Science? by zero_offset · · Score: 1

      You may have also noticed he operates a business by that name. Crazy, I know!

      --

      Slashdot quality declines as the number of hot grits posts decreases. - Provolt's Law, Apr-09-2005

  53. You mean like Google already does? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Google for "how many bones are in the human body":

    WikiAnswers - How many bones are in a human body
    Human Anatomy question: How many bones are in a human body? There are 206 in adults and up to 350 for infants Of the 206 bones in the adult human body, ...

  54. The ever-decreasing depth of human knowledge by CAIMLAS · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Tools like this are decreasing the general ability of the population to research - resulting in a debt in 'comprehensive knowledge' on topics.

    Yes, tools like search engines enhance our ability to retrieve information faster than written documents such as manuals, dictionaries, and fiction, but they do not - 100% of the time, or even 80% of the time - lead us to the answers to complex questions directly. We are still required, as human beings, to read material, digest it, and often confer an answer.

    People will largely lose the ability to make (effective) decisions on their own, because the critical inputs for a good decision are usually both a broad and deep understanding of the topics at hand.

    Think of what kind of impact this would have on the overall problem solving ability of a population. Problem solving is often largely qualified by a person's ability to get a good picture of what the problem is. What do we do when a person can simply ask complex questions where a wealth of experience was previously required? Sure, this allows people to move on to do other things, but...

    When you make it so that your analytical people - the problem solvers and those who create new things - are made irrelevant by a technology, you as a society will stop evolving socially. No, it will not happen immediately. It will happen gradually, over the period of a generation. Consider the dearth between the research abilities of a previous generation, and those who are graduating college today. There is a substantial difference, and the ease in which information is acquirable today has had a lot to do with this shortcoming.

    --
    ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
    1. Re:The ever-decreasing depth of human knowledge by sneilan · · Score: 1

      It's not gonna be so bad. The depth of human knowledge is not decreasing. It is increasing. Who's to say that each generation becomes stupider anyhow? Each generation is different, but, certainly not stupider. In fact, with the internet, people are probably much smarter than they would be without it.

      --
      "I like it when the red water comes out.."
    2. Re:The ever-decreasing depth of human knowledge by Praxx · · Score: 2, Interesting

      When you make it so that your analytical people - the problem solvers and those who create new things - are made irrelevant by a technology, you as a society will stop evolving socially. No, it will not happen immediately. It will happen gradually, over the period of a generation. Consider the dearth between the research abilities of a previous generation, and those who are graduating college today. There is a substantial difference, and the ease in which information is acquirable today has had a lot to do with this shortcoming.

      While this may be true for some people, it's their own fault if they limit themselves in this way. The people that are really passionate about research will use this technology as a tool to enhance their research capabilities. Those that do not probably weren't motivated enough to be successful anyway.

      --
      http://www.policystew.com/
    3. Re:The ever-decreasing depth of human knowledge by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Think of what kind of impact this would have on the overall problem solving ability of a population.

      That's easy: Like all progress, it will free us to focus on higher-level concerns.

      When you make it so that your analytical people - the problem solvers and those who create new things - are made irrelevant by a technology

      ...then you free the people to concentrate on recreation and the arts, and thus...

      you as a society will stop evolving socially.

      ...the exact opposite of your doom and gloom prophecy will occur. You seem to be under the strange impression that the only thing a body of people can contribute to the future is the problems they solve. How depressing.

      Consider the dearth between the research abilities of a previous generation, and those who are graduating college today. There is a substantial difference, and the ease in which information is acquirable today has had a lot to do with this shortcoming.

      Ooooooh.... Oh. So--you didn't really mean any of that stuff you just wrote, you just wanted to "prove" that your generation is better than the generation that proceeded it. I also get a strong whiff of "I 'ad ta do things the hard way, so gosh durn it, the young'uns oughta, 'swell. Builds character!" Yeaaaaaaaah.... NO. The world moves on. Move along with it.

    4. Re:The ever-decreasing depth of human knowledge by davevr · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I suspect it will be similar to the great cultural loss of the ability to memorize long narratives that was brought about by the invention of writing.

    5. Re:The ever-decreasing depth of human knowledge by xkcdFan1011011101111 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That's what everyone said when wikipedia came out.

      I'm a researcher, and I find that googling/wikipediaing my questions often helps me know if I'm looking in the right area. If I've conjured a sufficient amount of buzzwords about the topic, I'll get a good wikipedia page or mathworld.com page or something. I can then look at what THOSE pages reference and usually find links to some peer-reviewed sources.

      Also, I've noticed a lot of my coworkers (myself included) will often try to learn more about a problem we're working on and through wikipedia/google find similar problems in several other fields. A lot of the time the other fields that have a similar problem as mine are so different than my field that I wouldn't have noticed the problem existed elsewhere without stumbling across it on the internet.

    6. Re:The ever-decreasing depth of human knowledge by vikstar · · Score: 1

      This is an updated version of the bland old "we had no calculators in our day". The questions that will be answerable will aid in the research of questions and answers that are unanswerable by the technology of the time, yielding progress.

      --
      The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than the question of whether a submarine can swim.
    7. Re:The ever-decreasing depth of human knowledge by Kensai7 · · Score: 1

      Hmm, I think this has already been studied for other paradigms and is nonsense.

      You don't become idiot by having better tools, you just do your job faster. Human intelligence is all about associations in the end. You still have to make the call and evaluate the computer's answers afterall. Come on, the world won't end...

      --
      "Sum Ergo Cogito"
    8. Re:The ever-decreasing depth of human knowledge by MrMista_B · · Score: 1

      Alright, you can make the exact same identical argument against books, and reading.

      Since the invention of reading, and the widespread availability of books, do you think 'we as a society have stopped evolving socially'?

      Hardly. Rather, the opposite has happened - we as a society have begun evolving socially more rapidly than ever before.

    9. Re:The ever-decreasing depth of human knowledge by high_rolla · · Score: 1

      I've heard this referred to as 'fast food' for the mind.

      You get the information quickly but haven't had to do the extra work behind realising it so you don't have the same overall understanding of what that piece of information actually represents.

      --
      Ryans Tutorials - A collection of technology tutorials.
    10. Re:The ever-decreasing depth of human knowledge by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      This is an updated version of the bland old "we had no calculators in our day".

      Which, as was pointed out elsewhere in this thread, is an updated version of "we had no writing in our day." Surely we are crippled as a culture now that we no longer nurture the ability to memorize epics thousands of lines long.

    11. Re:The ever-decreasing depth of human knowledge by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tools like these new fangled computers continue to lower the intelligence of our mathematicians. If you can't do it via paper and pencil then your mathematical insights are useless. If a person needs on of these things to compute his theorem that person is slowing the advance of humans and evolution in general. If we keep using these computers eventually human learning will become irrelevant. Research into new sciences will dwindle. Problem solving will decrease to the point that it become nonexistent because we rely on computers for the harder aspects of it. In addition, the sky will fall.

  55. 42 by Device666 · · Score: 1

    Answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything = 42

  56. Favorite Einstein Quote by $0.02 · · Score: 1

    Computers are useless. They can only answer questions.

    --
    If enithin kan gow rong it whil. (Murfey)
  57. Singularity first by Anenome · · Score: 1

    Only a technological singularity is likely to produce a machine capable of understanding humans like we understand each other. We must simulate the human brain, using the blueprints of DNA to do our building for us. See Kurzweil.

    --
    "I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist"
  58. The last question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  59. HAL responds by actionbastard · · Score: 1

    I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission. And I want to help you.

    --
    Sig this!
  60. 42 by trum4n · · Score: 1

    You know its gonna happen....or did it already?

  61. People are special. by Iamthecheese · · Score: 1

    Wait, no they aren't. Whether your computation is done with electrons, metal, and gates or chemicals, neurons, and massively parallel signals in a semi-chaotic system of interconnected brain tissues, these two facts exist: Computers are turing complete. Brains are turing complete. You can hide your head in the sand and talk about "free will" all you like, but the fact that you have wetwear does not define youer thinking as better in any way. Any other way of looking at it is mindless faith in religion.

    --
    If video games influenced behavior the Pac Man generation would be eating pills and running away from their problems.
    1. Re:People are special. by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      Wait, no they aren't. Whether your computation is done with electrons, metal, and gates or chemicals, neurons, and massively parallel signals in a semi-chaotic system of interconnected brain tissues, these two facts exist: Computers are turing complete. Brains are turing complete. You can hide your head in the sand and talk about "free will" all you like, but the fact that you have wetwear does not define youer thinking as better in any way. Any other way of looking at it is mindless faith in religion.

      Where did I use the term "better" when qualifying thought as opposed to mechanical processes? Never even implied it. Just different.

      Also, until you can claim to solve the halting problem in real life (as opposed to a "theoretical device"), don't go around claiming that the brain is turing-complete. It isn't, and cannot be - not in this universe, anyway.

    2. Re:People are special. by TheCrazyMonkey · · Score: 5, Informative

      Also, until you can claim to solve the halting problem in real life (as opposed to a "theoretical device"), don't go around claiming that the brain is turing-complete. It isn't, and cannot be - not in this universe, anyway.

      Of course the brain is turing complete. You can prove it the same way you prove any other machine is turing complete: it has the ability to simulate a turing machine. I can simulate a tape driven turing machine pretty damn easily with a sheet of paper and a pencil. I think you're confused as to what "turing-complete" means. Solving the halting problem is not a requirement. In fact, you can prove that a turing machine cannot solve the halting problem. So the brain's inability to do so doesn't have any bearing on whether it's turing complete.

    3. Re:People are special. by Thiez · · Score: 3, Informative

      > Also, until you can claim to solve the halting problem in real life (as opposed to a "theoretical device"), don't go around claiming that the brain is turing-complete. It isn't, and cannot be - not in this universe, anyway.

      The halting problem is undecidable over Turing machines. Claiming 'the brain is not turing-complete because it cannot solve the halting problem' makes no sense.

    4. Re:People are special. by Raffaello · · Score: 1

      the possibility exists that the human brain is a hypercomputer

    5. Re:People are special. by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      Your definition is flawed - turing-complete machines are impossible

      While truly Turing-complete machines are very likely physically impossible, as they require unlimited storage, Turing completeness is often loosely attributed to physical machines or programming languages that would be universal if they had unlimited storage. All modern computers are Turing-complete in this loose sense, or more precisely linear bounded automaton-complete.

      For a bad analogy that doesn't involve cars, it's like saying that there is a complete set of integers ... I can always add one more and get yet another one.

      Solve the halting problem without a time machine and I'll believe you.

    6. Re:People are special. by againjj · · Score: 1

      The brain plus infinite pencils and paper is Turing complete. The brain does not have infinite storage.

  62. Sounds a lot like True Knowledge by ComputerPhreak · · Score: 1
    Sounds like a copy of True Knowledge: http://www.trueknowledge.com/ I asked 'How many bones are in the human body?' and got the result:

    I understood your question to mean:
    How many bones (a rigid organ in the skeleton of vertebrates) does a human body (the physical aspect of human being - in contrast to the organism conceived as a person) have?
    This conclusion is based on a single fact in the knowledge base:
    206 is the count for the meronym holonym pair bone and human body - agree / disagree

    It will even show you how it pieced together known facts to answer your question. It's pretty neat, although you have to register to be a beta tester to use it as of right now.

  63. And.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Que the computers taking over the world by telling us incorrect facts. ..Our purpose is to serve...

  64. Not quite correct by snowwrestler · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This whole question was answered decades ago (1970s) with the "foreigner in a sealed room" turing thought experiment. It showed that the person in the sealed room doesn't have to understand english, or even know the answer to questions, provided they are given some simple rules to link words together in a response depending on what words are in the original statement.

    That's not quite correct--the Chinese Room thought experiment does not depend on "simple rules"--it imagines a Turing-Test-passing program converted to book form, which is then run manually by an English speaker, responding to Chinese inputs. But there's nothing in it that implies that the Turing-Test-passing routine is simple.

    In fact there's nothing that says such a routine is even possible. The Chinese Room thought experiment has always struck me as begging the question. It starts by assuming that a routine exists that has passed the Turing Test, then shows that a machine running such a routine need not demonstrate actual thought. But it is entirely possible (IMO likely) that the Turing Test cannot be passed without actual thought, which would render the first assumption void.

    --
    Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
    1. Re:Not quite correct by Cyberax · · Score: 1

      Nah, Chinese room is possible. After all, you can be modeled as a VERY large finite automaton (the number of combinations of quantum states of all atoms of your body is finite).

      However, it's absolutely impossible to do this in practice. The number of possible combinations is just too huge.

    2. Re:Not quite correct by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "the number of combinations of quantum states of all atoms of your body is finite"

      Umm. no. Consider a two state system, using Dirac bra-key notation:
      a|1> + b|2>

      a and b are both complex numbers => ie there are an uncountable infinity of possible superpositions. And that is just a two state system. Consider 10^23 particles and your brain will explode!

    3. Re:Not quite correct by bishiraver · · Score: 1

      A recent episode of Numb3rs examined this issue. They were excited when they began interacting with a computer that was seemingly poised to pass the turing test.

      It ended up that the computer was programmed to pass the turing test and nothing else: it searched through possible responses until it found one that was statistically shown in conversation to be appropriate. It never actually understood the interactions taking place, it simply found an optimal response.

    4. Re:Not quite correct by snowwrestler · · Score: 1

      It ended up that the computer was programmed to pass the turing test and nothing else: it searched through possible responses until it found one that was statistically shown in conversation to be appropriate. It never actually understood the interactions taking place, it simply found an optimal response.

      This is what AI chat bots do now. However if you use enough pronouns, it becomes obvious pretty quickly that they cannot hold a thread of conversation like a human can. As a human conversation progresses, the language tends to become more abstract as the shared knowledge accumulates between the people conversing.

      It's theoretically possible that a computer could search all possible responses INCLUDING those that indicate an ongoing thread of conversation. But the question then is by what criteria the computer chooses the best response. At some point that criteria would have to get so complex that the line between thought and simulation would get blurry.

      Not an issue anytime soon, because the data set and processing resources for that would be way larger than computers can handle now. Sort of like why computers can beat the best humans at chess (barely), but not Go. The data set is just too large to search quickly.

      --
      Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
  65. The Answer! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I, for one, welcome our all-knowing overloard that will finally be able to put to rest many of the debates that Slashdotters have.

    > Is there a God?
    > Is Apple better than Microsoft?
    > When is The Year of Linux on the Desktop?
    > What is the Second Step?
    > How many people on Slashdot have actually been in a relationship with a girl?

  66. Eliza by preacha · · Score: 1

    I just hope it's more "intelligent" than those artificial 'chatterbot' programs of of days gone by, for example Eliza, I press enter several times and get a response like: "Eliza: Why are you so unsteadily?"

  67. Re:Other attempts by White+Flame · · Score: 1

    Having tracked down a lot about Cyc and messing with OpenCyc and talking to people in the know, I'm pretty sure Cyc has already been able to answer questions of this scope, with natural language as input.

  68. For existing implmentation see... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://start.csail.mit.edu/

    I dont know what this guy's web-site does, but the above link can tell you how old Britney Spears is.

    It's also able to give a reasonable answer to the question 'how far is venus from pluto'

    I welcome his idea as it will be usefull to me.
    Add speech a recognition to a computer with this stuff and you do have star trek... which makes your computer look very smart :-)

  69. Stephen is a Genius... by Kensai7 · · Score: 1

    I don't know if this will be a success or less, but it adds to the evidence that Stephen Wolfram is still THE computing genius.

    If you have time read his book as well.

    --
    "Sum Ergo Cogito"
    1. Re:Stephen is a Genius... by dargaud · · Score: 1

      If you have time read his book as well.

      Moderation: Interesting but overrated.

      --
      Non-Linux Penguins ?
  70. Sisn't this START in 1993. by Dr.Altaica · · Score: 1

    START, the world's first Web-based question answering system, has been on-line and continuously operating since December, 1993. It has been developed by Boris Katz and his associates of the InfoLab Group at the MIT Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence Laboratory. Unlike information retrieval systems (e.g., search engines), START aims to supply users with "just the right information," instead of merely providing a list of hits. Currently, the system can answer millions of English questions about places (e.g., cities, countries, lakes, coordinates, weather, maps, demographics, political and economic systems), movies (e.g., titles, actors, directors), people (e.g., birth dates, biographies), dictionary definitions, and much, much more. Below is a list of some of the things START knows about, with example questions. You can type your question above or select from the following examples.

    START's reply
    ===> how many bones are in the human body?

    I don't know how many bones there are in the human body.

    START's reply
    ===> Who is Stephen Wolfram?

    Stephen Wolfram

    Stephen Wolfram (born August 29, 1959 in London) is a physicist known for his work in theoretical particle physics, cellular automata, complexity theory, and computer algebra, and is the creator of the computer program Mathematica.

    Source: Wikipedia

  71. The Last Question by louzer · · Score: 1

    How can the net amount of entropy of the universe be massively decreased?

    --
    Heroes die once, cowards live longer.
  72. My first question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Is the Riemann hypothesis true?"

  73. Computer, What is the nature of the universe? by danwat1234 · · Score: 1

    "The universe is a spheroid region 705 meters in diameter"! I Can't believe nobody else has posted this!

  74. What's so new about this? by Kleiba · · Score: 2, Informative

    Question answering (QA) has been around as a research track for years, and quite a lot of effort has been spent in the field. See for instance http://trec.nist.gov/data/qa.html - So, is the novelty in the story that someone is trying to make a business out of it? I doubt it, because even that has been tried before, most recently with powerset.com. Of course, I assume that the business model would be "getting bought by a search giant as soon as we can", and not creating an actual competitor to google and the likes.

  75. I can just imagine by ILongForDarkness · · Score: 1
    Q: Pamela Anderson sex tape.

    A: No thanks I'm good for now.

  76. Expert systems are here again by Edmund+Blackadder · · Score: 1

    This was tried unsuccessfully many times before. These things used to be called expert systems and there was a special language (called prolog) for programming them.

    Anyways, no one ever made a program that used ordinary language well, but boy did I have a lot of fun programming in prolog. That language made forming a simple "For" loop a challenge involving symbolic logic.

    Anyways my guess is he will try, he will fail and then we will all decide that artificial intelligence is mere 10 years away.

  77. Already Done... Why wait for a Launch? by abel425+ · · Score: 1

    This sounds really great and promising I think Wolfram got something going here... But well see if its any better than the one ppl are already using http://www.usualbeings.com/answers

  78. I predict... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...like everything else Wolfram publishes/announces, this will require your purchase of the latest version of Mathmatica, "Now with intelligent question answering!!!"

  79. Eponymous Coward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    42

  80. Holy crap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Google already does this. It's giving you the answer and linking to the page that has it. All Google needs is to be able to use these things in the calculator ("circumference of the earth in furlongs").

    Google is going to become self-aware.

  81. Natural language is not that easy by tgv · · Score: 1

    As a researcher with more than 10 years of experience in processing natural language in various ways, I can only say that I don't believe it until I see it. Of course it is possible to generate reasonable answers to a fairly large set of questions if you throw enough resources at the development, but I doubt this system will be able to give a reliable answer to any interesting question, unless of course it makes the user disambiguate his/her question to the point where he/ has answered it himself. That would be cool for me, but not really a crowd pleaser.

  82. a la ST.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Q: How do I destroy a Borg tactical cube?
    A: call species 8472

    or in our time...

    Q: Who shot Kennedy?
    A: That information is classified.

  83. As of this year (2009), by Amitz+Sekali · · Score: 1

    I don't think all google employees working together can manage to accomplish what Wolfram promised he has accomplished.

    --
    If you delay pleasure infinitely, the pleasure will be infinite. (YM)
  84. Focusing on the deep end by AlpineR · · Score: 1

    There are different kinds of questions to be answered:

    1) Where is the nearest restaurant that sells pizza by the slice?
    2) How do you make rhubarb crisp?
    3) What foods will reduce the risk of cancer?

    A question like (1) could be answered by a guy on the street. A question like (2) could be answered by Google. Google could try to answer (1), but it still needs some human processing. A smarter computer should be able to give more a more human-like answer someday: "There's a Domino's down the block, but you should go to a place called Vace another street over if you like authentic Italian pizza."

    For question (3), Google can help you find the fraction of existing knowledge that is published on the Web. But actually generating that knowledge still takes human research and reasoning. I wouldn't mind computers getting better at (1) and (2) if it lets humans focus on (3) and higher.

    I'll agree that focusing on the big picture can lead to stupid mistakes in the small picture. Community banks have made good traditional decisions and survived while megabanks made enormous mistakes that someone closer to the ground should have realized immediately. But that's probably more a symptom of humans being unprepared for the power of their tools. Our kids who are born with these tools will probably adapt easily to knowing the strengths and weaknesses of them. Or they'll do at least as well as 20th century-ers did with 20th century tools.

  85. Facts. by airship · · Score: 1

    Facts can be used to prove anything that's even remotely true. - Homer Simpson

    --
    Serving your airship needs since 1995.
  86. Re:Seeing as there is no such thing as a bicorn... by GargamelSpaceman · · Score: 1

    You will say wait!, Goats have two horns, so they are Bicorns. That's not what I mean. In general usage bicorn has no meaning.

    Google responded with the wikipedia entry for Bicorn:

    The bicorn is also known as a cocked hat curve, due to its resemblance to a bicorne. It is a curve with equation: y^2(z^2 - x^2) = (x^2 + 2ay -a^2)^2

    The Bicorne by the way, is the sort of hat Napoleon wore.

    The point being that in a language ( such as French from which cometh both Unicorn and Bicorne, the pattern of putting Bi in place of Uni doesn't hold to produce a two horned animal called a bicorne. Of course French gets Unicorne from the latin unicornis uni = 1 cornu = horn.

    It's good to note that in the google results that in Harry Potter mythology a Bicorn indeed does have two horns however.

    Guesses based on the word itself could include a mutant strain of Zea Mays that produces double ears of corn. Offering that, ( or a definition based on the unicorn to bicorn pattern ) would be talking out of one's ass, and not very useful. (That's what I would have done too - not to dispariage anal ranting. ) Other valid ideas might be someone's last name. Names come from all different languages, even ones with no latin connection. For all I know, Bicorn is a common Bantu name. Maybe the World Champion Shufflepuck Champion is named Ebenezer Bicorn. This isn't true, but it could very well be.

    Google comes up with a much more useful result.

    --
    ...
  87. MATLAB already does this by m85476585 · · Score: 1

    Just type in 'why' without the quotes and you will get an answer.

  88. Little known fact... by Phizzle · · Score: 1

    But the Alpha version of this product was the Magic Eight Ball, it was sold to Mattel to fund additional research :)

    --
    I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.
  89. When WA is available, I am going to ask: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "What is the best question I can ask WA and what is the answer to that question?"

    I hope its answer is not:

    "The best question to ask, is the one you just asked, and the answer to it is this one"... :-)

  90. Oblig Monty Python by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "What is the airspeed of an unladen swallow?"

  91. I have invites for True Knowledge by TuringTest · · Score: 1

    I have invites, but won't be available this week. Post a reply and I'll send you an invite next weekend.

    --
    Singularity: a belief in the "God" idea with the "demiurge" relation inverted.
  92. This one's easy ... by LrdDimwit · · Score: 1

    Forty-two. Now, what were we talking about?

  93. I've just seen the demo; here is my reaction by Lenat · · Score: 1

    Stephen Wolfram generously gave me a two-hour demo of Wolfram Alpha last evening, and I was quite positively impressed. As he said, it's not AI, and not aiming to be, so it shouldn't be measured by contrasting it with HAL or Cyc but with Google or Yahoo. At its heart is a formal Mathematica representation. Its inference engine is basically a large number of individually hand-engineered scripts for tapping into data which he and his team have spent the last several years gathering and "curating". For example, he has assembled tables of historical financial information about countries' GDP's and about companies' stock prices. In a small number of cases, he also connects via API to third party information, but mostly for realtime data such as a current stock price or current temperature. Rather than connecting to and relying on the current or future Semantic Web, Alpha computes its answers primarily from his own curated data to the extent possible; he sees Alpha as the home for almost all the information it needs, and will use to answer users' queries. In an important sense, Alpha is a logical extension of Mathematica: it extends the range of types of information for which significant power can be gained by manually, and exhaustively, enumerating a large set of cases: airplane designs, cities, currencies, etc. I.e., Alpha extends what Mathematica has done previously for things like chemical compounds, geometric surfaces, topological configurations, arithmetic series, trigonometric ratios, and equations. In the new cases, as Mathematica did in those abstract math cases, Alpha excels at not just retrieving the stored data but performing various appropriate numeric calculations on the data, and displaying the results in beautiful graphs and easily comprehended tables for the user. The resulting mosaic covers a large portion of the space of queries that the average person might genuinely want to ask, in the course of their day. The interface is not exactly natural language, but can be treated by the user as though it were -- just as users of browsers can treat them as though they parsed sentences even though they don't. A better way to think of it is a DWIMM ("do what I might mean"), so if you type in something like "gdp France / Germany", it calculates and returns a graph of the relative fraction of France's annual GDP to Germany's GDP, over the last 30 years or so. If you just type in "gdp", it looks up your local host and (in my case) displays the GDP of the USA over the last 30 years, plus various pieces of information about what gross domestic product is, from a mathematical formula perspective but not from a semantic one. It does not have an ontology, so what it knows about, say, GDP, or population, or stock price, is no more nor less than the equations that involve that term. One vulnerability that this engenders in Alpha is that errors in the data may go unnoticed for a long time; a positive way of saying this is that one could align Alpha's terms to an ontology and knowledge base, and use it to catch some fraction of errors as outright implausible violations of basic knowledge (e.g., Miami's population dropping by exactly a factor a ten during the month of October, 2006.) Another example of DWIMM occurs if you type in a complicated mathematical formula, sloppily, with run-on variables, parenthesis errors, typos, etc. In those cases, Alpha does a great job of guessing what you could possibly have meant by that, something close to what you typed in which would be a nontrivial graph, and displays that graph. If you type in a string of letters that's parsable only as a chemical compound, it assumes that you want information about that compound. If you type in IL where it expects a state, it will interpret that as Illinois; where it expects a country, it will interpret that as Israel. For those who are familiar with and enamored by Mathematica's powerful theorem prover, it should be mentioned that that is, for the moment, turned off, for reasons having to do with computational cost -- i.e., response time -