Slashdot Mirror
Blizzard Asserts Rights Over Independent Add-Ons
bugnuts writes "Blizzard has announced a policy change regarding add-ons for the popular game World of Warcraft which asserts requirements on UI programmers, such as disallowing charging for the program, obfuscation, or soliciting donations. Add-ons are voluntarily-installed UI programs that add functionality to the game, programmed in Lua, which can do various tasks that hook into the WoW engine. The new policy has some obvious requirements, such as not loading the servers or spamming users, and it looks like an attempt to make things more accessible and free for the end user. But unlike FOSS, it adds other requirements that assert control over these independently coded programs, such as distribution and fees. Blizzard can already control the ultimate functionality of add-ons by changing the hooks into the WoW engine. They have exercised this ability in the past, e.g. to disable add-ons that automate movement and facilitate 'one-button' combat. Should they be able to make demands on independent programmers' copyrighted works, such as forbidding download fees or advertising, when those programmers are not under contract to code for Blizzard? Is this like Microsoft asserting control over what programmers may code for Windows?"
When I used to play WoW, I used many addons that made up for Blizzard's shortcomings in the UI. If the authors want to charge for these addons Blizzard should have absolutely no say in the matter. The developers are improving Blizzard's product to a more playable state, Blizzard should be paying them.
Obligatory blog plug: http://www.caseybanner.ca/
If you want to play with their code and platform, you need to follow their rules or not play at all.
Just as you can't close your code if it incorporates GPL code, Blizzard doesn't want you charging people for your add-ons if you code for their platform.
I am happy about this change with WoW. I personally never saw a point in paying for an addon to the game. Although some of the addons look good that you pay for I am glad to see this change. Ah well just MY opinion.
-- Josh
"Whoopie! Man, that may have been a small one for Neil, but that's a long one for me!" - Pete Conrad
Just skimming through the changes, it doesn't look like they forbid advertising or donations: just in-game advertising or requests for donations. (i.e.: an add-on developer would still be perfectly free to solicit donations or include advertising on the site where they offer the add-on for download)
you can close your gpl code-so long as it stays 100% in house
however you can't then charge for it or re-distribute it
I'm sure someone will technically correct me right now- but it is an important element
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
In the first place I think you would have to be nuts to pay for an add in for a game. It's not like it's an expansion pack or anything like that.
Then there is also the fact that the game does belong to Blizzard, and is run at their expense, yes, you pay them to be able to play it. They still have the right to control the gaming experience.
The comparison with Microsloth Windoze is flawed, in that what Blizzard offers is only a game, and there is only the one reason for it - entertainment. When was the last time you found Windoze entertaining?
Some people are only alive because it's against the law for me to hunt them down and kill them.
As long as you code to an API, you do not need to agree to any terms and conditions. You can publish your code any way you like and charge for it or give it away. This way you can publish closed source drivers for Linux: Because you do not distribute the Linux kernel, you are not bound by the GPL. The same with WoW: If you are not bound by a contract and don't use any of their code, you're free to do what you want.
It's their system, they make the rules. Isn't this obvious? I don't think the comparison with Windows is valid. Windows is the dominant desktop OS. WoW is hardly necessary for anything.
The developers are getting experience in coding and publicity, or they made the addon originally for themselves then decided to share it.
I doubt all the addon developers are doing it out of the the goodness of their hearts.
Some are out just for profit EX. Carbonite full, and of the ingame leveling guides...
you too can keep impoverished, starving lawyers fed and clothed by being creative.
They can make any demands they want.
You are also free to take your business ( and code ) elsewhere and put them out of business.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
In WOW the style and feel of the world is important. Tools like these could ruin that without certain restrictions. Then again, so can't players.
I'll chime in here.
I'm the current sole author/maintainer of what I believe is the world's most popular World of Warcraft UI Mod, QuestHelper. About half a year ago I took it over from an abandoned/unmaintained and rapidly degrading state, and I've treated it like a full-time job since. I'm perhaps two or three weeks ago from releasing Version 1.0, which is a huge set of changes to dramatically reduce CPU and memory usage, as well as produce better output from the mod and be far, far easier to maintain and modify in the future.
I used to be fully donation-supported - that means my apartment in the Bay Area, food, gas, utilities, all of that, thanks to the generosity of users.
The funny thing about donations is that a lot of people will gladly donate, but you have to remind them. Depending on how you count it, adding a simple unobtrusive message on logon saying "hey we're donation-supported, if you really like QH please donate" increased income anywhere from five-fold to hundred-fold. That said, even with that message, my income was starting to drop below sustainability levels - I was hoping that v1.0 would fix that, as well as breaking some code in the Wowmatrix client that was actually disabling my donation request.
(Ironically, it seems like the message may not have been noticable enough, as a large number of people have told me that they never even saw it after using QH for months. So it goes.)
Now, I'm not donation-supported. I can't put that message up, and I know from experience that I won't get enough without it. I can keep up the donation box on the actual website, but the fact is that just won't provide enough for me to keep going - most people don't even look at the website. I should mention that I fully believe this is within Blizzard's rights to do - I don't have any grounds to sue or anything - but I do believe it sucks. So I'm going to be releasing version 1.0 (watch for it in 2 or 3 weeks, it'd be sooner but I'm going to GDC and that will eat a week), and then just putting it in a mothballed maintenance release, as the remaining donations I'll get anyway should be enough for that.
I think this is a mistake caused by Blizzard's overzealous legal team. I think, for some reason, Blizzard is terrified at the idea of anyone besides them making money on anything related to their game. I'm not sure why they're banning donation requests ingame but not out-of-game - I think they're just confused. However, they've killed off a good number of UI mods thanks to this, and I think ultimately this is going to hurt them quite a bit.
I'll field questions, as long as they're sanely-written.
If you'd like to donate, I'd love for a little bit extra to cover the 1.0 release - here's the link. Anything you can give is appreciated, of course, though not expected and not required.
Also, if there's any business managers out there who have a clever idea for how to still make a living off this, let me know. I'll pay you with a reasonable fraction of the results ;)
Breaking Into the Industry - A development log about starting a game studio.
Blizzard is looking out for the players. They don't want some addon that throwing advertising or in game donations on a large percent of their user base.
They need to assert control over third party mods to prevent rampant account hijacking. Too many users are installing sketchy addons that steal account information for gold sellers, so "add-on code must be completely visible" is great.
I can't see how Blizzard could ever hope to pursue and legal action related to this. WoW addons don't redistribute any of Blizzard's code, they just use functions that Blizzard defined. I assume Blizzard is just going to use this as an excuse to block certain addons in-game.
"Is this like Microsoft asserting control over what programmers may code for Windows?" They do. Compare the customizability of windows vs linux.
I thought the custom plugin support was strange from the get-go. WoW servers (like most / all other MMOG servers) trust the client with too much information, then Blizzard allow people to write plugins to take advantage of that information, then they try to reign in the plugins they consider 'bad' (which as far as I can tell they can decide for any reason).
It all seems an unnecessarily complicated process, as well as one that is rather unfriendly towards plugin developers (they can block your plugin at any time). Why not use the resources to design a decent GUI yourself and disallow plugins altogether?
Fail. Addons can't steal passwords.
its illegal. they cant do it. its as if microsoft trying to assert rights on programs that run on windows platform.
this is one of the STUPIDEST shit i heard this year. i doubt anything stupider will come up.
And yet here your response is...
Since they won the case against Glider for altering WoW in a way against the EULA I think it gave them grounds to enforce this policy.
What I think caused this problem was an addon called Carbonite(www.carbomiteaddon.com) They charged to use the addon, they just made a in-game ad supoorted version after mysteriously the free version of their addon became expired/disabled. They also program the addon in a way that others cannot see what is in the code, therefore making it both a security risk to blizzard/accounts and protecting it from being copied. Out of all the addons out there, this one falls under most of the categories that bizzard just changed.
It's just conjecture of course, but from poking around a couple wow-specific boards and discussions going on there, it looks like the only two well-used add-ons this will affect are Carbonite and QuestHelper. QH apparently had a minor request for donation in-game that they will likely just remove. Carbonite however has full-on subscription plans they require for their "full" version. I looked around their site and forums but couldn't find anything official as to what they're planning to do.
Possibly impacted by this also is the bejeweled add-on; I don't believe this was open source?
Nope, when you live under someones roof you play by their rules. It might be kindof a dick move, but it's their API and they have every right to control how it's used. And it's not like this stipulation is unheard of; Microsoft has similar rules surrounding use of their GamerTag API as well as Google Maps with their free API (this is an oversimplification, but in general you are not allowed to use GMap mashups in for-pay websites).
Not to belittle the work of modders, but the fact that they can write add-ons at all is due to the substantial amount of resources that Blizzard has invested not only in the development of the API, but also the game itself and the massive server infrastructure.
I may not like it (I haven't decide either way yet whether it's a good or bad move - I'm very wary of Blizzard ever since the bnetd fiasco). But they are absolutely within their rights to do this.
This is dumb. They created an open platform for people to develop on and which allows for their users to *voluntarily* get that code and use it to make their game experience better. And while Blizzard can change that platform however they'd like, they should not be able to control the content of what their users voluntarily download and use.
If someone wants to make a Quest Helper add-on that doesn't ask for donations, I'm sure they're more than free to do so.
The problem here is that Blizzard is expecting high quality work for free, and won't even let the people who create that work remind people that it continues to be supported and enhanced for free, and request help to continue their work. Past a certain point, Blizzard may want to consider assisting these developers because they add significant value to the game.
Fail, indeed. And info stealer keygens don't exist?
Strikes me that the rule about not being allowed to charge for addons might be something that has come out of stories like this - iPhone App Causes Google To Shut Down SMS Service.
If there are loads of add-ons out there that a lot of people have paid a lot of money for, it kind of limits what Blizzard can do with the Wow add-on API. If they, for example, do something that disables or breaks an add-on that has been bought by 500,000 players for $10 a piece, they'd come under huge pressure to reinstate the functionality in the API, even though they themselves make nothing out of it and it costs them time and effort to do it. It'd also be a major PR issue.
Purely to avoid that risk (i.e. having to support API functionality for someone else's financial gain), I think I'd ban paid add-ons as well.
--- Band: Joey Ultra
There is no contractual agreement between the add-on developer and Blizzard; what legal basis would Blizzard have for imposing any conditions?
Note that FOSS licenses do not restrict what kinds of add-ons you can write for a piece of software or how you distribute your own code, they only impose conditions on you when you distribute someone else's code.
After further thought. You should write a letter asking for donations from people @ curse, wowui, etc. They are making money (site visits) from people wanting the updated version of your work. Also I would see if WoWinsider would write a review of your plight. I know alot of people would say; "Hey I love that damn usefull addon!" and "My girlfriend woulda never been able to level my toon for me." and thus donation to keep you going. I know the slashdot communtiy might not be the best place to tell people. Might try .. and I hate to say it .. WoW forums. /feels sick. I would do it under an alt of course.
That is of course if bringing attention to you would prompt Blizz to break you.
I may be in the minority (everybody loves free, right?), but I think this is a bad move. I really don't see it as fundamentally different from Apple deciding that all iPhone apps must be free.
Banning users from charging for their addons is questionable. Banning users from even mentioning in-game that their addon relies on donations is just stupid. If you are familiar at all with WoW addons, you know that the author's site is in the minority of the places people get the addon from. There are a lot of 3rd party collection sites, and there a lot of 3rd party addon installers that install and update the addon for you. Basically, this is like if a different group made Windows Paintbrush and tried soliciting donations on their website. How likely is that that people will go there, see it and donate? Now imagine it was far more useful than paintbrush.
The reason this is colossally stupid is twofold. First, if someone makes a commercial addon, other addon creators will see it and realize it's possible to clone. If it's a really good addon, they will clone it and release it for free. Sounds familiar, no? This is basically a large part of the way OSS works.
The second reason is that addons become work, if the addon is at all complex and popular (aka useful). At some point, you're spending a lot of time supporting the addon that could be spent doing other work for money, playing WoW, or just actually enjoying your life. As codebases age, they definitely fall out of that "enjoying your life" category. This is why donations can actually motivate you to work on an addon when you would have otherwise abandoned it.
The people who take a simplistic view that "other people shouldn't be making money off of Blizzard's hard work!" either do not understand or are too dogmatic to consider the reality. Addons add value to WoW. Blizzard makes money off of addons, be they free or pay, through increased subscriptions. There are numerous users who would stop playing if addons weren't around to make up for the deficiencies in WoW's UI. Addons also very frequently serve as their research department, as you will often see a new version of WoW incorporate the concepts of a popular addon.
This will result in many popular addons being discontinued. It will result in many addon authors losing interest in the game (I used to build addons even once I had lost interest in actually playing.) It will result in many players dropping out of the game because of lack of addon support (WoW updates and UI code changes typically mean that an addon will stop working within a year of being abandoned).
This is financially bad for Blizzard. However, if it's only 0.01% of their income, they will likely not care. I guess the new policy will be a good form of market research to see just how important the addon community is.
BTW, this has already been discussed in much more detail by the people who actually make addons. For those who aren't in the community, I'd recommend you read it to see how it has already killed some popular addons that relied on donations.
Yeah ... illegal, not so much.
It's a private game for which you pay a fee to play. They set the rules. They could turn off the add-on API tomorrow if they wanted to. It's their game.
Oh, and MS is under no legal obligation to provide an SDK or API, just so you know.
Although your analogy is flawed in hundreds of ways (apples, meet oranges), the short answer is that until the court system says otherwise, software EULAs are valid and they can assert whatever rights are in the contract you agreed to.
As for stupid ... not for them it's not. They want to control the "in game" experience. It's their game. Don't like it ... don't play it.
- Roach
There is a difference between Blizzard's LUA framework and M$ API.
Blizzard's LUA framework is meant to create an experience, NOT a marketplace. Which is why they are doing this to protect their end-users, and to disassociate viral developers from any association with Blizzard's products.
Blizzard's image is golden right now, and they want to make sure it stays that way, hence their drastic efforts. But seriously, I do not know how Blizzard can protect their golden image, as gold always invites criminals.
The only real control that Blizzard has is the pathway via LUA API to the product. This is where Blizzard should really focus their attention rather than on independant developers. I think Blizzard is straying too much from their fantastic coding ethics, and letting the legal team tarnish their reputation...
[Citation Needed]
The only remote possibility would be a user downloading an *.exe from a non-mainstream site, then running it without out first checking it out.
I know of no mainstream addon site that allows *.exe
Just admit it, your powerleveler stole your account.
CH3CH2COCH2CH3 is ethan-2-one
1) Blizzard probably doesn't want masses of users to be put at a disadvantage because they can't afford to buy the best add-ons.
2) Blizzard probably doesn't want to deal with people suing them because these little business take hits every time there's an engine change that severely breaks an add-on or makes it irrelevant.
I am willing to bet that the question of whether it is linked dynamically to the software or communicates through sockets will have very little bearing on whether it is a derivative work.
Courts take the intent of the parties into account when interpreting licenses or other legal documents. For GNU software, this intent would include philosophy documents published by the FSF such as its GPL FAQ, which states that a program that communicates over a documented socket interface is less likely to be considered "combined".
When was the last time you found Windoze entertaining?
Solitaire has been part of Windows since 1.0. And one of the main advantages of Windows over GNU/Linux is that Windows can natively run more games.
its as if microsoft trying to assert rights on programs that run on windows platform.
What about Microsoft trying to assert rights on programs that run on Xbox 360 platform? No wait, it does.
There is no contractual agreement between the add-on developer and Blizzard
The terms of service of World of Warcraft are a contractual agreement. Without a WoW account, the add-on developer cannot test his work.
Is this like Microsoft asserting control over what programmers may code for Windows?"
No and that's stupid flame bait.
It's comparable to Stallman's hate against XEmacs .so loading facility and equally as idiotic.
kekekekekekeke
In this specific case, I think Blizzard has a strong case because such add-ins combine with the program to affect the screen display, which could be argued to CREATE a derivative work when running, since game displays tend to be primarily expressive. Whether they "can" and whether they "should" are two very different questions.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
Sure they do, but they're *EXECUTABLE* programs....these usually end in .exe not .lua
Addons *CANNOT* stealy your info.
Retard.
Your 14 year old, WoW uber-player quip is lost on me as I don't play the game. I just work with a pile of people that complain their accounts were circumvented, then affirm they recently installed some new mod or addon around the same time. Maybe it's the installer, I don't know. I read the Blizzard notes from TFA and it seemed reasonable that Blizzard asserting control might prevent against whatever it is that's causing all of these accounts to get hijacked, or have all their items dumped.
Actually Microsoft has been told by the courts that they myst provide open API's.
Is this like Microsoft asserting control over what programmers may code for Windows?
Not even slightly. Such a requirement for an OS would impact every piece of software that a user runs. WoW is just a single application. The two aren't even close and even the mere suggestion comes off like an anti-MS rant (or perhaps rather an attempt at transferring an anti-MS sentiment towards Blizzard.)
~Warning!~ The above is encrypted using rot676!
From the perspective of liking my software free and open-source, I was actually a little excited about this announcement when I first heard it. And then I started thinking about all the implications.
I've been a fan of QuestHelper for quite awhile now, and I never saw a donation "reminder". And I didn't get it through WoWMatrix either, I downloaded it straight off WoWInterface manually, every time it was updated. I think it's a shame that Zorba is being forced to mothball that project due to this. The inability to even have the chance to pay my favorite mod authors to keep addons I like functioning is a mistake, IMO.
Another good addon that they've killed with this announcement is nUI. This is the Mazzle of 3.0, but instead of a collection of addons automatically configured, Scott has written an entire UI to replace the default. If I weren't so addicted to many of my addons that don't mesh with his, I'd use his in a heartbeat, it's very very nice. But he's been out of work for awhile as I understand it, and now that he can't have a seperate free and premium version, he's said it may not be worth his time anymore to continue development on. This one, I beleive, is truly tragic.
Last of all, I just noticed Mundocani taking down his postings of GroupCalendar and Outfitter from all the hosting websites. He doesn't even ask for donations as far as I can recall, but he's done that in protest. I don't disagree with him either, but I do regret the loss of such talent from the UI Dev pool.
Blizzard is not making any of their fans love them for this, and I sincerely hope they reverse this policy.
Not illegal, but unenforceable.
Where do you have to agree to a "EULA", in order to access the API?
A quick google shows full documentation available on third party sites, without any reference to a license.
Ergo: Developers can do whatever they want.
Example: I don't play WoW, but my friend
CaptCommander really wants his UI to be Pink
and not to have a visible HP bar. He
asks me to make this for him. I google the
API, figure out how to do this, charge him 5 dollars.
Did I violate their policy? Yes. Did I violate
their license? No. Why? Because their was no license
agreement in place in order to access it.
Possibly, CaptCommander would be the one violating there ToS now.
The corner of a round room
Sherman Antitrust Act
"My opinions are my own, and I've got *lots* of them!"
Only for Windows, and only if non-Windows Microsoft products use them.
Except the mods come from third party sites Blizzard has no control over. All they're doing is shooting their fans.
Try google, I heard people use it to understand things, normally before they speak loud and ignorantly.
And when Blizzard gets declared an illegal MMORPG monopoly, maybe they will too.
Did I mention ... Apples, meet oranges?
- Roach
"...such as disallowing charging for the program, obfuscation, or soliciting donations." Why the hell disallowing the solicitation of donations? It's not like the author forces the user to pay for it, just get a little something in return if the user feels to do it. That is just asking for people to stop doing these enhancements.
time add on developers started making their applications GPL and then suing blizzard when blizzard copies them. This is the type of two-tier shit apple tries to pull
Half of my UI components that actually work well request donations.
Under this design, the developers will be more encouraged to move on to some other project or game that doesn't care. In many cases I suspect that they will quit the game altogether as the mod they wrote was generating more money than they were paying out to blizzard and kept them playing in profit.
What about mod promoting sites like Curse or Wowinterface that solicit money? Are they allowed to continue?
Oh well. I suspect this is so blizzard can start moving forward for a mod store.
I'm just glad to see them cracking down on obfuscation. Nothing enrages me quite like being handed the source code and being completely unable to do anything useful with it.
Women are like electronics: you don't know how damaged they are until you try to turn them on.
You're aware that the person you're replying to never actually said that, and the quoted text actually belongs to the summary?
Oh, you *are*, and you only replied there rather than at the top level because you wanted your message to appear nearer the start than earlier messages? Naughty, naughty...
"Oh my, we won't have to get adblock for wow! Outrage!"
Blizzard has also changed the tos for Battlenet, that they may in the future include in game advertising, and these adds will be selected an delivered while you play by "Massive" (a wholly-owned subsidiary of Microsoft Corporation)
(Check section 15 http://www.blizzard.com/us/legal/tou.html )
Blizzard is restructuring their system, so that in the future a player will be required to have one battlenet login for all Blizzard games (you register new games with your battlenet account, and can later redownload them if you lose the dvd)
So perhaps they don't want addons with advertisement since it might be a competition to their own, eh?
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
...that since MANY of the add-ons that are produced by the playerbase end up in the game as a "feature", they do not want anyone to have the ability to say "Your Honor, I can prove this line of code is mine for I have the sales receipts to prove it...", or something along those lines. Simply put, Blizzard does NOT want ANYONE asserting ANY rights, in any way, shape or form, in regards to their cash-cow. I'll cite an old example..
Way back when, Ultima Online had volunteer "Counselors", players that would be able to login a special character to go about answering questions(but have no real GM powers) for players. They were an integral part of the game. One day, one of them(Bitch!) realized that she could get PAID for what she was doing. She only had to sue Origin, and sue she did. The end result was the entire "counselor" program being scrapped(Bitch!) and a very wary Origin. They never let players into the circle of trust again.
Personally, it always peeved me that Blizzard used the playerbase as an ongoing Beta-test and development team for in-game features. THEY should be developing this stuff, then INCLUDING it in the game engine.
They are basically getting their paying customers soak up development overhead for them.
As you say later that you don't play WoW, it's understandable that you don't know how addons work. They have no capability of communicating any stolen information to the outside world other than through in-game chat. This communication would be visible to the user and such an addon would be quickly be blacklisted. As another user pointed out, the only way they could get around this is to have the user download an EXE, and at that point it has nothing to do with Blizzard because that EXE doesn't even need to actually be an addon.
And all of this is moot because these new rules wouldn't apply to anyone who was breaking the rules, anyway. It's like saying you're putting up a stop sign to prevent people from running a red light. Though for the analogy to be complete, you'd also have to not have any such thing as cops or red light cameras.
http://www.blizzard.com/us/jobopp/designer-ui-wow.html
Quit whining and make your resume ...
Um, this part is wrong:
"""
But unlike FOSS, it adds other requirements that assert control over these independently coded programs, such as distribution and fees.
"""
The GPL DOES put requirements on distribution. Maybe the poster should start actually reading these licenses instead of assuming what they say.
You don't need addons. You may like addons, but you sure as hell don't need them. WoW is perfectly playable without any addons. In fact, I know a number of people who play with a very minimal number of addons for the reason that addons usually break when a new version comes out. So they don't use man, and the ones they do use are non-critical. Personally I use a few, but none that are "I must have it or I can't play." I am perfectly capable of disabling all my addons and still doing just fine.
What's more, WoW has a very good UI built in. I've played more than a few MMORPGs (Everquest, DAoC, EvE, Starwars Galaxies, and Warhammer) and WoW has be far the best UI. It is easy to use, and includes a high degree of built-in customization. For that matter, the addon interface is just another level. The most basic is the point and click menus and such. If you need more complexity, there's macros which require some basic scripting but not much. Need more than that? No problem you can full out program the UI using XML and LUA. What's more, you can share it with the world.
Also, Blizzard DOES take popular addons and make something like them in the game. Biggest one I can think of is the raid frames. Back in the day, there was no display for the whole raid, and thus no easy way to heal a raid. CTRaid became popular for this reason. It was a pain in the ass to use, and kinda flaky at times, but useful to raiders. So what happened? Blizzard modified WoW to have it's own raid frames, and to give addons like CT easy means of communicating things.
Your post just sounds like whining about a game that won't do things "Your way." Well ok, but recognize you aren't the only player. Lots of people may not think that "your way" is right. So if you don't find it fun, go find another game to play. Seriously, WoW isn't the only game out there, not even the only MMO. Some people like other games, nothing wrong with that. However, if your bitch is with the UI, well I'd be prepared to be disappointed. WoW's UI is one of the very best. That was only of the biggest pains when I tries Warhammer. The UI in that game was so rouge as compared to what I was used to in WoW. It wasn't horrible, but it wasn't near as good as what WoW had.
If not, the GPL wouldn't work. That's what the GPL relies on: The ability to tell people what they can and can't do with your shit. You say "Ok, you can have the source, and you can modify and redistribute it, however you have to give those modifications to me and everyone else. Otherwise, no deal." You are allowed to do that because it's your code. Take that away, and then it would be a situation of if you hand out your code, people can do whatever they want with it and you can't restrict that.
Fail, indeed. And info stealer keygens don't exist?
Of course info stealing keygens exist. But if you're using one for WoW then you're trying to steal WoW. So if your account gets jacked because you were trying to steal WoW then you're SOL.
And apples taste like oranges, am I right? No, addons can't steal passwords. Back in the day it was possible, through somewhat hacky methods, to "skin" the login page. There was a little "addon" that remembered the login credentials for you (or at least the login name, don't recall now). Once Blizzard found out they fixed that hole pretty quickly since it could and would have been used for malicious purposes.
So before you try to come with "insightful" comments, make sure your facts are straight. An addon is not a keylogger and a keylogger is not an addon. Some people try to spread keyloggers using fake or others addons, but that's unrelated to the addons themselves.
"Don't like it ... don't play it."
I am currently opting to not play it.
ever since EQ1 lost its glory days and EQ2's RMT servers went down hill ( I LIKE RMT! Playing for cash is the sh!t!)
I have given up MMO's for good.
I would take a repeat of the EQ/EQ2 experience to make me start playing these time-wasters again - and I don't see that ever happening again.
Maybe I should look into getting a few computer-savvy friends together to write our own MMO.
Wow. This comment probably has to take the cake on the thread for ignorance. Sorry, not trying to offend you, but it's clear you are completely talking out of your ass. If you had known anything about the history of the UI API, you'd know that they severely break backwards compatibility at the drop of a hat. They give some advance warning about it to the developers who monitor the UI forum, but they are merciless.
As someone who both writes and uses addons, I have no problem with this at all. None.
It is their game. Their license agreement covers this stuff. There's nothing comparable to Windows here -- I can play other games, for instance. Or not play games.
I think this will make my life better, not worse. I have been screwed by obfuscated addon code before, so I'm glad to see that going. I'm also fine with them restricting the secondary market, banning ads, and so on. Works for me.
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It's possible for addons to communicate through in-game chat without it being visible to the player.
This is how many raid add-ons work for example.
So you could
- write nasty add-on
- capture information
- wait for innocuous world-spam message (trade channel message saying "wtb green parrot, paying 3g" from character called "Naughtyperson")
- send hidden chat message with details
They run the server mod that stores received details in flat-file on their PC for out-of-game retrieval.
All automated, all easy, all invisible to the user.
Obvious flaw is the need to see the trigger message, but I can think of a few ways around that too.
Except addons at no point have access to any sensitive information, like login credentials. There's nothing they could send that would compromise your account.
Addons do not hijack accounts. In the vast majority of cases, the cause is the same kind of nutjob that runs every exe they get in email. Ie, they're doing it to themselves.
In some, rare, cases it's caused by something even more seasoned online denizens would've missed. But if the hundreds and hundreds of hours spent in WoW isn't worth the $6.50 insurance the Blizzard Authenticator is, I can't quite make myself feel sorry for those people either.
"Is this like Microsoft asserting control over what programmers may code for Windows?"
:)
Only if you have 6 million simultaneous users on the same windows installation, who all have to be assured equal rights and accessibility to everything at once.
You probably don't
Probably be considered advertising
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
Here's my theory. Blizzard will retract the clause that they don't really care about, the unpopular clause about in-game donation prompts. We'll accept it, end of story. So the remainder of the new rules get far less scrutiny than they would if they'd just put out the 'real' set of new rules first.
This is fully within Blizzards rights to do. They can do with their product as they wish. Why do people (even /. editors) always confuse that with Microsoft? The only reason why Microsoft may not do that with Windows is because they have a monopoly. Microsoft may keep that monopoly as long as they don't abuse it (and I could go on about Microsoft here, but this is not about Windows).
Now Blizzard can do as they wish. They could also just shut stop selling time on their servers today and as soon as people used up all their remaining month of playing just shut down all of WoW. But they won't, because they make money and many people are very happy because they like WoW.
Maybe if you put up a messagebox upon install and a readme into your prog informing all users that you won't be able to keep developing under Blizzard's current TOS maybe your users will inform Blizzard that they would like them to change the TOS. I am sure you have thought of that.
I think the idea would be to phish for the password by popping up an official looking dialog box that says something like "Please verify your password" with account name and password boxes. Then that a hidden chat message is sent to another toon telling them the information. This is possible (my mistake on not being able to do hidden chat), but probably not effective given some factors I'll post in my response to the OP.
I apologize, I was wrong on the hidden chat message point. Either it wasn't like that when I used to program addons years ago, or (more likely), I'm just remembering wrong. I tried to google around before and check the docs on what you can and can't do, but I couldn't find a cohesive listing. So obviously once you can do that the likeliness of the phishing scenario is much greater.
However, I do stick by my original point that this policy has zero to do with such a case. Such an addon would have already been flagrantly violating even the most basic pre-existing rules. It's silly to think someone creating rogue password stealing addons would be bothered by a few words in a posted policy document.
Absolutely, this wont prevent abusive mods and is clearly following a different agenda. I wasn't challenging your main point, just highlighting the capability for hidden comms.
And I genuinely thank you for the correction.
The only thing I can think of that might be relevant is the non-obsfucation clause. That might sound like it would address this in theory, making it easier to spot buried stuff like this. But to be honest, I doubt anyone would catch it in either case until they saw it happen on their screen and dug through the code for it. And once they reporting it to Blizzard and they found the trigger phrases, they would grep through their chat logs (they do actually keep them) and mass ban all the accounts who have ever said them as well as probably put some kind of trigger on the phrases to auto-ban anyone who says it in the future. Seems like a lot more trouble than it's worth for someone writing the phishing code.
When Blizzard takes a popular add-on, like say Outfitter, ItemRack, CTRaidFrames or Scrolling Combat Text and implements them in the stock UI lots of people complain it's "not as good." They have said in the past that that's exactly their intention, to implement these features to the UI as light and fluffy, just the basics. My guess is so it doesn't become overbearing as they continue to do this. I've seen many other people's UIs look like a ride from hell because they have 20 add-ons running at once and they have this magnifying-glass-sized portion to look at the game field.
They also don't want to replace said add-on but feel it has use that probably now belongs in the stock UI. This way, the add-on authors don't feel short-changed that Blizzard stole their work and there's no point continuing.
That said, I have to agree with others. This seems to be in the best interest of add-on consumers. I can easily see 3 years down the road many add-ons charging and/or soliciting donations in-game and whenever I run WoW I have to close 5 windows asking me for money.
Naughty enough for a 'foe' designation. I love slash.
Not within the LUA sandbox.
I'm not particularly your enemy and you're a friend of a friend, so I'm not going to foe you back. I love slash.
I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here. I don't think Blizzard feels to bad about mods like QuestHelper, Carbonite or MobMap going away. Blizzard's quest designers go to a lot of trouble to set up and design these quests for some add-on to just come in and point you to exactly where you need to go and what you need to do. If they really wanted this functionality in the game, they would most likely have implemented it. 3.1 is already showing signs of a much more involved Quest Tracker. I find it no surprise they are now targeting the top of the pay/donation mods as the top ones are of the quest database variety.
I can see perhaps in the future Blizzard may be charging for enhanced UI experiences. I imagine now they are losing a lot of customers due to people not being able to afford to play anymore. Who knows.
Lemme put it simply, for those who are all, "omg unfair, no right, screw blizzard"
If you made a comic book, and sold it, someone else bought it, decided the words you wrote weren't good, so they rewrote the words, but used the same pictures, and sold it for a tiny bit more then what you sold it(so they made a profit), is that right?
I agree that Blizzard has a right to alter their script interpreter to disallow activities that they find to be gamebreakers or against the spirit of the game. They change their code, and addons can no longer do that action.
On the other hand, the addons that people write belong to them, they may sell them, or obfuscate their code as much as they want, and Blizzard should just shut up about that.
Of course, anybody selling a WoW addon had better own what they are selling, no collecting other peoples creations and selling "The best of WoW addons volume 3" or anything like that.
Anyone know if they compensate the addon authors for this? Kudos or cash?
I’m old enough to remember 16K of memory being described as “whopping”
Whatever way you did this, it would be found out quickly, the addon would be banned and you would have a lynch mob after you before you got enough accounts to do anything lucrative with.
I’m old enough to remember 16K of memory being described as “whopping”
That was one of the factors I posted in my other comment.
Unfortunately, Blizzard has the right to control how their IP is used. Its just like Open Source Software. You're free to use it, you just can't repackage part of it and sell it for profit without special permission.
But, reading the Bliz website, there's nothing that says you can't have a message that says "report bugs, missing mobs, request features and tell us what you think of this addon at -mywebsite-". Then splash a huge donation request on your website.
"Is this like Microsoft asserting control over what programmers may code for Windows?"
Absolutely not! Windows is an operating system whose principal purpose, like all other operating systems, is to provide a platform on which applications can run without having to control hardware directly. Who writes the applications is largely irrelevant, just as it is not in the operating system writer's interest to restrict who can write those applications or under which terms (that's not say they can't do so, just that it's not in their best interest).
The simularity between WoW's "engine hooks" and and Windows' APIs is merely that -- a simularity. WoW is itself an application written with Windows' APIs. WoW /needs/ the operating system in order to run, just as WoW's players need Windows to be able to play the game (Mac version and Wine notwithstanding). Windows, however, does not /need/ WoW in order to exist (though it certainly doesn't hurt Microsoft's bottom line).
One can, of course, state the parallel with WoW addons -- that they /need/ WoW's "engine hooks" to function, but WoW does not need user addons to provide a playable game experience. The principal difference, however, is a commercial one...
Applications, not operating systems, are what sell PCs (and its hardly deniable that a large percentage of WoW players likely have PC's in the first place just to play WoW :-p ). Yet, the applications need the operating system (nevermind that an application /could/ be written to talk to the hardware directly), thus it is in Microsoft's interest to make their operating system APIs available "without restriction" to application writers -- in order for the operating system to sell, there must be applications written for it.
Contrast this to whether WoW needs third-party addons written for it for WoW to sell... it does not. If you, a WoW player, bought WoW (and pay monthly fees to Blizzard), simply for the sake being able to use, say, QuestHelper or Auctioneer then you, "sir" are... well, let's just say among a great minority of players from whom the addon writers are also justified in charging fees and claiming the right to do so...
Yet, were this case, then I'd argue that Blizzard would be equally justified in charging additional "license fees" to the addon writers as well. They do not, of course, since though addons might make the game more "enjoyable" for some players, without them Blizzard would probably still have the most successful MMO currently running.
"LinuX - Dropping the c u r t a i n on Windoze." -- Vee Schade, vschade at mindless dot com