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iPhone Users Angry Over AT&T Upgrade Policy
All is not sweetness and light in the wake of the Apple WWDC kickoff announcements, especially concerning the evolution of the iPhone. Reader Hugh Pickens writes: "AT&T will offer the new iPhone 3G S when it debuts later this month at a cost of $199 and $299 for the 16GB and 32GB models, but only to new customers and those who qualify for the discounted price. AT&T subscribers with an iPhone 3G who are not eligible for an upgrade — those not near the end of their two-year contracts — will have to pay $200 more — $399 for the 16GB model and $499 for the 32GB model. 'This is ridiculous and slap in the face to long-time loyal iPhone customers like me who switched from T-Mobile and the only reason was the iPhone,' writes one unhappy iPhone customer. 'We have to mount a vigorous campaign to change this policy. Call your local AT&T and ask for the manager and complain. Send e-mails and post in forums everywhere.' The issue is spurring heavy debate on support discussion forums, with some customers supporting AT&T. 'The option you have is to honor the contract you freely committed yourself to,' says one forum member. 'If you want to upgrade early then you will have to pay full price with no subsidy discount. You can't blame anyone but yourself for your predicament.'"
You know Apple releases a new phone every year, and you know AT&T makes you sign a 2-year contract. Either pay the higher price for the upgrade or live through the horror of not having the latest shiny product until your contract runs out.
This is totally out of left field. It's a good thing the US is chock-a-block with better wireless carriers and the iPhone is portable between them.
So the issue is that a new model has been released and only people who are eligible for a new phone can get it at a discount? Apple never should have caved on the iphone price change retroactivity, now they can't improve anything without the existing users demanding free upgrades for life.
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
How every other carrier and every other phone works. Just because they were generous when the 3G came out, does not obligate them to do so again.
Looks like only one user was upset in that forum. The rest all saw the logic and understood what a subsidy is used for.
'We have to mount a vigorous campaign to change this policy.'
A vigorous campaign? Really? I'm sorry, but in this context, the author simply sounds pathetic.
It's standard cell carrier policy, only give discounts when your contract is either expired, or close to expired, in order to bait you into extending it.
They make up for the *loss* (note, there is NO loss, it's just a reduced markup / profit on the phone) in their overpriced charging model, for minutes used, data transmitted, text-messages sent/received, etc.. drekcetera...
The end of the posting says it pretty well...
Things I'm also upset about:
No more free lunches.
Gas costing more than $0.05 a gallon.
Having to walk more than three feet from my car to my local superstore.
The fact that I wasn't born in a time where peace was on earth, everything is free, and we're all immortal.
I'm so angry that I'm punching a wall and hoping someone will pay for its repair as we speak.
AT&T and Apple are trying to get new customers by lowering the initial cost and subsidizing the remainder on a 2 yr plan. If you already have an iPhone, you don't qualify, plain and simple. Why is this a slap in the face? When did we as a society get our collective sense of entitlement?
Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
They also have a policy that allows you to upgrade your phone at a discounted price after a certain amount of time.
If I'm not mistaken, they've done this for a while, now... and so does Verizon. How does the iPhone have anything to do over this? Sounds to me like someone is just mad that they'll have to wait for their upgrade.
Not saying that longtime customers shouldn't get a discount or anything... just that this shouldn't surprise anyone.
Earn a % of cash back from Newegg, Tiger Direct, Walmart.com, and more: http://www.mrrebates.com?refid=458505
You sign a contract for 24 months to receive a reduced price on your handset. You're not eligible for a discount until a good portion of that commitment has passed (usually 18 months). Owners of the first Gen iPhone got a discount because they bought their phone at full price. 2nd gen iPhone owners who paid full non-contract price are eligible for a discount. People who got a handset (ANY handset) at a discount and are within their contract time won't see one until their time expires. I just bought a new Macbook Pro 11 months ago; should I go to the Apple store and whine because they've improved the design, and I can't buy one for half price?
If you had an Original Motorola RAZR and you wanted a new one, you had to pay full price.
I fail to see the issue here.
-jX
Don't you just love politics? It's like a comedy of errors.
Looking at the first set of comments I am getting a de ja vu of being in youtube.
-- It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -- Aristotle
They subsidized the old phone on the condition of a two-year contract. Before those terms are up, which you agreed to, you want them to subsidize a new phone?
Well, if you are breaking the contract cough up the money from the last contract. That would be fair. And probably about $200 anyway.
Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
So you have an iPhone, and you loaded some apps on it, and you text your friends, and sit in Starbucks and look cool... and AT&T comes out with a cooler one, and you want a freebie or discount upgrade, because ...... why ?
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
Seriously. The oldest iphone out there is just now turning 2 years old. This new ones an improvement, but not a world changing compared to last years.
People have so little patience, plus they may change the policy anyway.
Except of course apple has nothing to do with it and no one had their face slapped. Besides that. Great post. Unless of course AT&T following the same contracts every other US carrier uses is Apple slapping people in the face.
They are absolutely not doing this. I am an existing AT&T customer who has an iphone. I am no longer under a current contract as I have been waiting for the new iPhone. I just double checked before posting and I qualify for an upgrade to the new iPhone if at the discount pricing if I am willing to sign a 2 year agreement with AT&T.
Apple doesn't subsidize these phones the phone carriers do.
Nothing to see here but confused forum posters and bloggers move along please.
This is a quote from the AT&T site when upgrading from the original IPhone non3G "As a valued AT&T customer, we can offer you a discounted iPhone upgrade at a higher price, along with a 2-year commitment and an $18 upgrade fee. Please proceed with the online upgrade process for pricing details. You may qualify for a full discount on a standard iPhone upgrade on 07/23/2009
I then try to select the single line to upgrade and the site tells me only select a single line. They seem to not want to sell to existing customers till 7/23.
I don't understand what the issue is. The great majority of new features can be had by flashing your current iphone to 3.0, and then opening the little door and putting in a bigger...micro...sd...card... Oh, I forgot. Never mind.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Apple wrote their legalease in a somewhat confusing manner, but no they did not say what you wrote in bold.
The U.S. market is dominated by subsidized phones. Get $200 off a phone, agree to a contract (2 years in US, 3 in Canada) where you pay back a lot more than the $200 credit you were given. From a business standpoint, of course they are not going to subsidize you faster, at least not as a rule.
However, this system has hurt the phone market. It creates higher margins in cell phone retailing (that's why you see so many cell phone stores everywhere) and for handset vendors, but it also requires that phones have annoying subsidy locks that stop you from going easily to other carriers, or putting in other SIMs when overseas -- enabling huge roaming charges.
It would be better if you could say, "Look, instead of $200 off a phone, if I bring my own phone, will you give me $10/month off my plan if I commit to 2 years?" Costs the carrier the same, approximately.
Then we would get more competition in handsets, and less carrier control of handsets too.
Has it been over a year since you last donated to the Electronic Frontier Foundation
The general consensus here on Slashdot so far:
1)"tsfroggy"(RTA) agreed to his/her terms in a contract and has to deal with the pricing like everyone else.
2)A past discount is not an obligation for a future discount.
3)"tsfroggy" is a whiner.
4)AT&T is clearly in the right on this, even if the pricing is too high.
I must say, Congrats gentlemen. I'll be interested in seeing how long this lasts in this particular thread.
Stop the presses, customers are being price-gouged by AT&T and Apple! Oh, the horror!
Who is going to expect sympathy over the fact that they have to pay $200 more to upgrade their iPhone?
Why is this even on the front page? Does Slashdot really worship the iPhone this much?
One of these days, I'm going to cut you into little pieces.
If you don't like the product they are offering at the price they are offering it at, don't buy it.
How did I read that article and screw up it's implications so badly? Well I guess my Dad is going to cancel out of my family plan (his part of the contract ended last year) and then re-up, take my phone and I'll get the new iPhone so SCREW UP AT&T I'm going to beat your system!
Si vis pacem, para bellum! For evil to succeed good men need only do nothing!
I have wanted an iPhone since they came out, but I have a corporate plan so I'm not eligible, ever, for an upgrade the way our company handles it. I have to buy one outright to get it too, so stop whining. One of these days I may actually buy one as a gift to myself, but until then I'm in the same boat. Just be glad you have one and not some generic blackberry.
I will shred my adversaries. Pull their eyes out just enough to turn them towards their mewing, mutilated faces. Illyria
I read the article. I did not see that part having read it now several time It said that new customers and those that qualify will get the discount. The 'those that qualify' it implied were the people at the end of their contract. I'm not sure how this is any different then other cell phone providers.
This is totally out of left field. It's a good thing the US is chock-a-block with better wireless carriers and the iPhone is portable between them.
Very funny, and for some reason it makes me want to throw up.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
Why don't you and your colleagues in the same situation band up and start up a non-profit phone company? This company will not have a shortage of subscribers as the number of people being ripped off by these phone companies is not in short supply.
It reminds me of the town of Wilson that Time Warner refused internet service and they (the town), did something about it.
I've had the iPhone 3G for almost a year now. AT&T prorates their termination fee by $5 per month. That means after one year $5 * 12 = $60 off the fee. $175 - 60 = $115 that I pay to cancel my contract. Buy the new iPhone 3GS for whatever model you want at the new 2 year agreement and voila! You got a new iPhone for $199/$299 + 115 = $314/$414. Save money but you'll lose your number more than likely. Not sure if I feel the need to upgrade the phone. The firmware update is sexy in itself. I do like the 2x faster loading speeds for going into apps but I think I can hold out till next year for the iPhone 4G 2 turbo dubs edition. I hope iPhone can break of the exclusivity to AT&T, AT&T is horrid. Last and not least, TOMTOM WOOOOOOO!!
Sig? No thanks. I don't smoke.
Why not work it like this:
Rinse, renew, add another two years every time. They could even make you trade the old phone in.
Alas, companies are so much more interested in new customers than keeping the current ones happy.
I.E. You have a current Iphone your contract is expiring tomorrow and you still don't get the new one at a discount. You have to pay the full price.
Is that the full outright unlocked price, or just a not-so-subsidised and still locked price?
How does this stuff work in the US? I thought the basic idea is you get a new free/cheap phone every two years by signing or extending a contract.
Other countries have competition laws to stop blatant abuse, e.g. requiring a contract and locking the handset. (no proper reason for both).
We have to complain about how Apple "Fanbois" are whiny and never satisfied.
Yeah, well, that's pretty much the truth. Just watch my karma disappear for making that remark. I wonder what would happen if someone were to publish a cartoon making fun of Apple owners? They'd probably issue a fatwa against the poor devil.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
I am sure they will miss your winning personaliy.
Honestly, given the current state of our economy, I'm surprised more people aren't ashamed to post such nonsense.... Even though we don't yet know exactly what will be in the latest revision of the iPhone, all indications point to a few relatively minor tweaks, like a built in compass and ability to use the faster tier of 3G cellular data network. Oh, and likely a faster graphics processor, which is nice -- but did anyone honestly have issues with it updating too slowly before? This will only matter for some games that want to push the envelope a little further with how much you can do on a phone. FAR from a necessity, especially for those of us who'd rather play "real" games on a home computer or console system anyway!
Heck, I bought one of the very early 1st. gen. iPhones, and I didn't WANT to go to the 3G model. The version using the slower EDGE network was about $10 cheaper per month to keep a contract on, and I thought it had a more "solid" feel to it than the plastic-backed, sloped wedge shape of the current model. But finally, when mine started acting up, outside the warranty period, it just made more sense to buy a new phone.
If you can get past the pointless "keeping up with the Jones'" attitude for a minute, I fail to see why a 3G iPhone owner would be that compelled to rush out and upgrade at all? Those that have that irrational need to "show off" by having one first? Well, let them pay full retail price!
So, I know I am inviting trouble here but I honestly don't mean to start a flame war so much as vent. I am no fan of AT&T whatsoever as they were/are complicit in illegal wiretapping. They have a direct feed to Big Brother and this is something that I do not like at all. The iPhone is just another "bling, bling" gadget and you can really do without it. I admit, I had withdrawal when I gave up my Blackberry but it freed up more personal time and I began to enjoy life outside of work. Whatever happened to simplicity in communications? I have two prepaid phones and still pay "much less" than 1 iPhone plan. One of the prepaid phones is a house phone for guests to use, the other is mine.
2G cost $599 at launch because it did not require a contract.
3G cost $199 at launch because it required a contract.
3GS will cost $199 at launch because it requires a contract.
Existing iPhone 3G owners can't upgrade for free because they're still paying off their subsidized phone.
Apple didn't realize the bease they were creating when they asked AT&T to try a non-subsidized model for the initial launch. Now everyone remembers the "free" upgrade to the 3G, but somehow forgets paying $599 for a 2G on launch day.
I do live in the US, and formerly worked in the wireless communications industry. I've seen the soft, shitty underbelly of the national carriers first hand, and it's an awful and very depressing sight indeed.
But once LTE takes off, then there'll finally be an even playing field for competition between carriers and the consumers will reap the benefits.
*chortle*
You funny boy, learn to read maybe!
Why bother
Hello, you obviously don't live here. There is ONE other national GSM carrier in the US besides AT&T, that is T-Mobile and their 3G network is weak at best (or at least is vastly less mature).
Nextly, that doesn't matter much if you want a subsidy from the sole official provider of the iPhone in the US.
Woosh!
WHOOOOOoooooo.....ooooooOOOOOOOSHHHHHHHH.....
For some people, the IPhone as currently configured is just huge. They travel, or they do work that doesn't involve a computer....
Me, I am in front of a computer all day. Sure there are time when having access to email when out and about would be nice, but seriously, it isn't something that is killing me.
So I use a three or four year old phone. It can do messaging, and I can play a game or two, and use some Star Trek ring tones.
I will buy a Smart phone. But only when that 1) doesn't lock me into a single provider, and 2) all this kind of crap has settled out, and 3) when such a phone isn't locked into one vertical change of command (Apple).
I don't want to spend huge dollars on a phone only to have to spend huge dollars to get the next iteration. I will wait until the delta between iterations isn't so vast.
So one of these years I think smart phones will let me run applications I get from third parties. They will interface with my computers as well as with the Internet. And I will be able to reasonably make a phone call. And that phone will not break the bank.
I'm not thrilled about not have a subsidy but I see the rationale. They don't want people dumping their suddenly displaced iP3G on eBay for $200, since people would lap that up without a contract because the current 3G phone is "good enough" for most people.
However, this move will hurt number of units moved, which in the end, I think Apple cares about more than the kickbacks they're getting from AT&T for contracts. This is probably just more AT&T dickery. There has been plenty of that today with the MMS and Tethering issues.
I just wasted your mod points! HA!
The shareholders are the customers. Service subscribers (you) are the product. Your only power is to vote with your dollar, by the numbers.
Know your place, know your options.
Oh, and apple product update cycles are pretty predictable.
Cost of doing business I suppose. If you are developing free applications, it will probably not be difficult to find willing testers. For the quality of the material they provide, the service they give and the extremely low if any cost to developers, you will not see most of them whining about this.
This makes complete sense to everyone except for a couple little complainers in the forum post. I mean, it's really, really simple.
1. The real, unsubsidized price of the iPhone is $399 for the 16GB and $499 for the 32GB version.
2. You can get a $200 discount by locking yourself into a 2 year contract with AT&T.
3. If you're not at the end of your current 2 year contract (for which you already got a $200 discount off your last iPhone), you can't get another $200 discount on another new phone.
I mean, really. This is basic, basic cell phone stuff in the US here.
Portable versions of Firefox, GIMP, LibreOffice, etc
Why not, you gave them your nuts when you signed for 2 years to get the 3G.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
I had an 08 Honda Accord... when I found out they were coming out with the 09 Honda Accord I was so fucking pissed! I had just spent $20,000 on this thing and they are already coming out with a new one! It was outrageous. I felt like they should have given me the 09 for free (or at least real cheap) so I went to my dealership and got all pissy in their face. They said sorry your logic is dumb. Alas nothing happened. This is stupid.
Bunch of crybabies.
No, its a bunch of rabid apple fanboys who want to piss away more money to apple, but can't stand the idea of paying AT&T a little extra cash for the contract they willingly accepted.
I'd be upset too, if I didn't know that apple released new products yearly with their masterplan of planned obsolescence.
I'm not exactly a fan of AT&T/Cingular. I actually have service with Alltel (soon to be Verizon), but this is the same standard "deal" that everyone gives for buying a phone with a contract.
Looking at the new iPhone, the $200 price is actually cheaper than the 2 year contract price for the HTC Touch from Alltel/Verizon, which seems fair.
If you knew you would want a new phone in a year, then you should have paid the "1 year contract" price (or at least they used to offer that option).
At any rate, the price you paid for the phone was subsidized by your signing of the 2 year contract and you shouldn't expect another subsidized phone until your current contract runs out.
I'd rather have 2 very nice escorts, I'd least I'd get screwed right!
So stop complaining.... Seriously, whether or not we like the current policies, they are in place, and when you purchased your iphone originally, you agreed to it.
Here is my issue, if they are going to charge existing customers full priced, then the phone should be unlocked, plain and simple. But ATT and its shitty policies won't even let you unlock your phone after your contract has expired....
I came, I conquered, I coredumped
Except AT&T advertises phones exactly the same way and everyone in the US knows how cell phone pricing works...
You are provably wrong. I have a current iPhone. My contract runs out in November. I was given the discount when I ordered a 3GS phone today.
What a sickening sense of entitlement. I have an iPhone (1st gen) and I'm going to get this upgrade but I probably wouldn't if I had the 3G already.
Anyway without spending a dime on a new phone everyone will get the software v3.
I don't have a problem with what AT&T is doing. I get their logic. But for me personally, this is one more reason that I might just go ahead and try out the Pre. (the other reason is because it works with iTunes). I will miss my Apps, but at least my iPhone will effectively be an iTouch.
I guess AT&T has figured this in. The only reason to give a discount to upgraders would be to lock them in for another 2 years. I guess they figured that enough people will pay full price or stick it out until the end of their contract that they don't need to provide an incentive - not now anyway. They might be right... im not even sure what i will do myself yet (have not looked into what ATT cancellation fees will be, how long Sprint will try to lock me in, etc).
Blackberry did the same thing with the storm.
Seriously, boohoo. No other carrier offers discounts on ANY phone midway through your plan. Suck it up and pay the extra 200$. Just because its an iphone doesn't make you special and exempt from company policies. If it did, well, I'll take a 99$ palm pre then thank you.
The blackberry is built from the top down to keep you connected to the corporation.
While you can do that with an iPhone to if you wish, many more people just use it as the tool smartphones are intended to be. The same is true of other newer smartphones like Android and Pre, they let you create the connectivity model and directionality you desire.
The leash you despise is one that you choose to allow. It doesn't mean you can't use the rope for better things if you wish since you hold both ends.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Actually, the terms were *always* onerous and unfair. It's just that there was never a phone available that really made people say "i want that" often enough to notice that they were getting shafted.
Now the iPhone is out and it's become the banner to rally behind.
Frankly, I think it's too much for the phone companies to be allowed to sell the phones. They've shown they can't play fair when they have that ball. Twice. Once with the regular phone market, and now with the cellular phone market.
They probably ought to be forbidden at this point from selling the phones at all. If people want to finance their phones that should be their own business.
I'm just guessing here, but maybe he already had an AT&T contract and then bought a 2G iPhone. When they first came out it was easier to get one without a contract, just take one home from the Apple store and throw your SIM in it.
The subsidized pricing and in-store activation came later.
But some cell companies (or all) will do you the "service" of renewing your contract if your SIM shows up on the network in a new phone, so maybe that's not what happened.
You know you will pay it.. You'll bitch the entire time.. BUT you will still give them money.
Business 101 ... whatever the market will bear.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
What are things you shove up your ass?
My guess? Extra batteries.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
US cellphone contracts are barmy. We know that.
Why you think they'll be any less barmy for iPhone renters than Nokia renters, I have no idea. It's the nature of the beast.
Except AT&T advertises phones exactly the same way and everyone in the US knows how cell phone pricing works...
Yes, but anyone who ever buys an Apple product is somehow ... special. Everyone knows that. Heck, I had an Apple ][ Standard way back in 1978 or thereabouts. And you know what? I still feel special.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
Apple Haters make a big deal out of the standard carrier practice of subsidizing phones and therefore making you pay extra to leave your contract early.
Smarter posters would note that the pricing is as expected, only now you don't have to go to Hong Kong to buy a phone with no commitment. Now the thing to clarify is if these are still carrier locked (sadly probably so) but this is how you avoid a fee in the future if you are worried about it...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I have a similar problem. I got married a few years ago, but now thr old lady is looking a little worse for wear, and there are much younger and hotter models avaailable now! But my lawyer tells me I have an implicit "contract", and that upgrading will cost me big bucks! WTF! This is so unfair! They should have warned mme in advance how expensive it would be to trade up! Or maybe they did, but I wwas so excited with my shiny new toy to notice... either way, I'm mad as hell and I' going to bitch and moan until I get my way!
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
'We have to mount a vigorous campaign to change this policy.'
There's an App for that.
This signature can save you $400 on your car insurance!
Actually what is being offered is a compromise. The full retail value of the 32 GB model is $699 not $499. AT&T is offering those iPhone owners who purchased their 3G upgrade last year, under the terms of a 2 year subsidization contract, the opportunity for a special upgrade at half the subsidization cost. So, for example, when I bought my iPhone 3G last year on day 1, even though I promised to complete an entire two year contract to cover the major discount offered at the time, I will still be able to restart a new two year contract and be rewarded with a $200 discount.
So even though those with no further contract obligations (actually, in many cases you can upgrade at full discount after only 18 months of your 24 month contract) and those new purchasers will get a nice $400 discount, I think I'm getting a pretty honest deal with a half discount halfway through the obligation.
However, many people are clearly confused for various reasons. One cause is likely that many of these iPhone customers were never smartphone customers before. These people had no idea just how much money smartphones cost MSRP. The other part of it is original iPhone (Edge) buyers were not subsidized at all, and when the 3G came around, the offer was presented as though it was a special situation allowing for an early upgrade. Well that is partly factual, if you wanted to upgrade to any other phone you would not have been able to at only one year. I find this aspect to be particularly disgusting on AT&T's part, but it's all part of the contract... At any rate, since there was no subsidization in the original two year contracts for AT&T to cover, it was a no-brainer for them to offer full subsidization to 3G purchasers.
So ultimately, many people are expecting to get exactly the same full subsidization "special" offer they got with the 3G but there has never once been any promise that they would.
So I say: If you're not happy with the pricing, don't buy the new phone. If you feel bad about the whole situation, at least try to fully comprehend what happened and why the 3G's subsidization was not nearly as special as it seemed (AT&T sacrificed zero subsidization from your original contract whereas now they are offering to sacrifice half of the one from the 3G). It's understandable to be dissatisfied with an offer regardless of the terms, but not understandable for people to go all emo over the terms as though they were somehow owed or promised something else when they obviously weren't.
For the record, I intend to pick up a 32gb upgrade for $500 because frankly, I was happy to buy the original 8gb for the full original price. To me it's valuable for the added space alone. Everyone has to make this decision for themselves obviously but at least have the character to realize you are not being ripped off, and you are not somehow owed a better offer just because you really want the phone.
Fandom does not make you special.
I read the script, and I think it would help my character's motivation if he was on fire. -Bender
Apple is the one charging $500 for the Iphone. ATT then gives you a $200 subsidy to buy it as an incentive to sign a 2 year contract. If AT&T were to let people upgrade their phone at the subsidized cost anytime they wanted to, they could stand to loose a lot of money. I agree with AT&T on this one. Check out what the Early Termination Fee(ETF) is...I would bet it is less than $200. You could always pay the ETF, then get your iphone at the subsidized cost.
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If the phone company is asking me to sign a two year commitment to repay the "discount" they gave me on the phone, after the two year period, shouldn't they then reduce my monthly bill after I've paid back the "discount" ? They don't, so I call bullshit that they were giving me a discount in the first place.
Congratulations! You have a new phone without an extension on your contract.
Seems like the average joe/jane only believes in contracts when they get ALL the benefits with no downside. Don't get me wrong, I think there needs to be some more checks and balances with the carriers, but a contract is a contract. If you don't agree to it, don't sign it. If you don't care to read and understand it (or can't understand it - find help!) that's your own damn fault! Only in the USA can we blame everyone else for our own problems.
My mortgage...how was I supposed to know that I can't afford to live next to a wealthy CEO even though I have an entry level job. Must be the someone else fault I got myself into that situation without even giving it a rational thought!
Too good to be true? Not if the village idiot can convince the village to follow them
So the issue is that a new model has been released and only people who are eligible for a new phone can get it at a discount? Apple never should have caved on the iphone price change retroactivity, now they can't improve anything without the existing users demanding free upgrades for life.
Yup. All you get by caving in to pressure is more pressure. I'd expound, but I'd fail at Godwin. ;)
I know the iPhone crowd is somewhat enriched in whiny emos and self-entitled types (before anyone flames, I said *enriched*, not that it describes all of them), but still - what other community would react with such moral outrage that they have to actually live up to their contract? Under what scenario did they think they would be eligible for a *subsidized* upgrade for no reason?
The winning strategy for Apple/AT&T is to charge them $20 to switch phones, put their contract back to two years, and charge them the new subscriber price plus the pro-rated portion of the discount on their remaining contract. So if they've been under contract for a year out of the two, give them half the discount, add $20 to switch the service, and put them back at a year. The consumer gets a fair deal and AT&T and Apple make money.
what about those of us who bought the iPhone at full cost ($599) the first week it was released. Why the fuck do we have to pay the same monthly fee as if we were paying for the more recent subsidized phones? Why do I have to pay for unlimited Data when I'v never used more than 500 MB in a month? (Why does EDGE suck so bad? Why does it never work when I need directions or a phone number?) Why the fuck do I have to pay for minutes I never use? Why can't I apply my rollover minutes as credits toward my phone bill? Why do I love my phone, buy hate everything about my service? Why am I stupid enough to pay $900 a year for service that is so flaky?
Unless AT&T can address my concerns, I don't really care how much the subsidized phone costs. Unless the TCO can come down to a reasonable price and the data features actually work when I need them, I will not be renewing my contract -- not even for a new subsidized phone.
I'd rather pay for the hardware and decent service than to keep throwing away money at service that doesn't meet my needs.
Win a signed Stephen Carpenter ESP Guitar from the Deftones: http://def-tag.com/?r=0008781
'This is ridiculous and slap in the face to long-time loyal iPhone customers like me who switched from T-Mobile and the only reason was the iPhone,' writes one unhappy iPhone customer.
Long-time? Even if you bought an iPhone the day it was released (June 29, 2007), you are not yet at the end of your initial 2-year contract. How "long-time loyal" can you be?
Advice: on VPS providers
The 3G was released July 11, 2008 (so less than 1 year is as old as it could possibly be) linky:http://gizmodo.com/391960/iphone-3g-launch-date-confirmed/
Your warranty is for 1 year. link:http://www.apple.com/support/iphone/service/faq/#warranty1/
Maybe you should just get it repaired under warranty?
That took 30 seconds of google and I don't even own an iPhone. (I might be feeding a troll here)
I don't have a contract yet I still would be required to pay the full price. I use the go phone plan. I've kept my phone active for nearly every month the phone has been available. This is nearly 24 months. At $100.00 a month that's $2400 for the service and $400 for the phone. That's almost $3,000.
At that price NO ONE should be supporting AT&T nor Apple.
It is crazy to think that AT&T (and Apple) would limit the people that can purchase the phones. The only reason is to get you to pay for another 24 month contract.
Where's the support from the lawmakers when it comes to companies such as AT&T ripping off customers so badly?
You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
Probably, the same thing that would happen to someone who published a cartoon making fun of Linux users.
It's a very dark ride.
I refuse to pay the idiot premium on high fashion items, and that is exactly what Apple's products are.
Someone that the actual value of the 32GB is $699 so you're still getting a deal. I bought my Thinkpad Z61e that I'm posting this comment with for $650. I don't think there is a phone on the planet worth $700. To even make that excuse is lame.
I'll stick with whatever device does what I want it too without spending laptop money on it.
In all seriousness, if you see this post, and want it fixed for a reasonable (non-$400) price, respond to my slashdot handle @ the domain in my url. I'll get you in contact with my friend's business that does screen/touchpad/battery replacements at a very good price.
I had a sucky sig.
Apple advertised the price of the 3GS as 199/299 at the keynote, and didn't mention the unsubsidized price.
I really don't think we should haul them into court for false advertising, but, we should at least reserve the right to feel burned by the big price point that was driven home at the WWDC keynote.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
Ditto. Exactly what I was going to post.
The problem is that you already had to pay the service. And ETFs in some states are not legal. The point is that they won't sell it to you unless you are near the end of your 24 month contract or a new customer where you can sign another 24 month contract.
You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
This was the policy since the company was still known as Cingular. You want a new phone cheap, sign a two year contract. Already on a two year contract, wait until about three months before it expires, or pay the full price. Don't want to do that, then DIE, PLEASE.
It's a very dark ride.
Clearly it's a sign of the Apocalypse when an Apple fanboi isn't willing to spend ridiculous amounts of money on substandard hardware with an asinine number of restrictions. Worse, he's not even thanking Apple and AT&T for the privilege!
My God, what's next?!?! Best Buy not charging 3x more than everyone else?!?!?! Microsoft selling Windows 7 for less than what you're entire computer system costs?!?!?!?! The RIAA being spanked by the US Supreme Court and forced to refund all the extortion money they've collected from innocent civilians?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Oh the HORROR!!! THE HORROR!!!
I would of gotten a G1, except T-Mobile doesn't have 3G network anywhere I go. The nearest one is Chicago. ATT has 3g EVERYWHERE I go.
Hmmmmm....G1 wont' work on att 3g networks.....what to pick....
COST THEM MONEY, and they will drop you. Here's how to do it.
1) Call customer support, EVERY DAY. Each call costs them at least $25, because they outsource it.
2) Have free roaming? Start roaming. Costs them big bux.
Do this, and trust me, they will glad to be rid of you.
When I bought my iPhone I was told that apple does not cover damage, only manufacturing failures.
I understand the policy with the public. But as an iPhone developer, being forced to shell out extra money to have the new hardware is frustrating. With the public it's a choice. With developers some of us have to test on the new hardware. I wish there were a middle ground.
The *point* of this mess is that AT&T allowed original iPhone owners to upgrade to a 3G iPhone at any point in the contract. So if you bought an original iPhone in July of '07, you agreed to a 2-year contract. Fine. But if you decided in August of '08 that you wanted a new 3G iPhone, AT&T would sell you one at the DISCOUNTED, new-customer price. Yes, that's contrary to the way every other phone upgrade works, and part of how iPhones were sold. And yes, you got to keep the original iPhone.
AT&T/Apple changed their mind on the 3GS upgrade policy, and *that's* what has iPhone owners ticked off. Give it a couple of weeks. My bet is that they'll change their mind on it and go back to the original policy. Especially when they see that 3GS sales aren't taking off the way they expect them to.
You seem to be missing the all-important "?????" step... what craziness is this?
I bought an AT&T Tilt, had problems, ended up with a Fuze. Now I find that the Touch HD or the Touch Pro 2 (Fuze 2) will be coming soon. I can't upgrade to that for the special pricing either. You can't upgrade phones for special pricing on ANY carrier. This isn't an AT&T thing, this is an industry thing. If you don't like it, don't buy a phone with subsidy, pay the full price for it, and then pay the full price when the next model comes out instead. That's the only way it's going to be "fair".
Its not exactly like every other carrier on the planet. AT&T has an exclusive on the iPhone. They are milking that for what its worth (and I don't really blame them). With other phones, you can switch to a new carrier to get the latest greatest shiny new phone at a huge discount. Of course that huge discount won't be so huge if you factor in the cancellation fee on your original contract... but its better than nothing.
The people who are bitching and moaning about this are total Apple Fanbois. If Steve Jobs stopped short, you'd need the jaws of life to extricate them from his ass.
Protest all you want, but AT&T can call your bluff. What are you going to do? Not use your iPhone? Not buy another iPhone? Yeah, right. That thing you are bent over is a barrel of your own choosing. To change AT&Ts policy you'd need a credible threat to their business, and fanbois threatening to stop using their precious iPhone aren't credible.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
Many iPhone "2G"/first gen. hardware contracts are more than the approximately (maybe it's exactly?) 18 months it takes for your contract to be upgrade-eligible. The issue here is more the people who bought the iPhone first gen very late in it's life cycle, or bought into the 3G at all (since it's only been available for about 11 months.)
Seems people just feel confused and betrayed by Apple, because those who purchased iPhone 3G phones (myself included) adopted early, and also were first gen. customers as well. Many of the people in my situation feel screwed that they have to pay an upgrade fee while new adopters get in on the iPhone 3G-S goodness for free while we've been loyal customers all along. That said, I realize it doesn't really work that way.
I understand how subsidies work, and I realized that the iPhone 3G was released approximately 1 year after the iPhone "2G"/first gen., but maybe if I knew the iPhone would be updated again after only a year, I might not have purchased the iPhone 3G. Nevertheless, the iPhone 3G does suit my needs completely and will continue to do so until approximately January 2010 when I can upgrade to the iPhone 3G-S, or at that point, I could also just wait and see if the iPhone 4th gen is coming down the line at the one-year mark just like this one. And if so, I'll evaluate then if it's worth the additional 5 month wait.
...when will AT&T's support for voice calling be out of beta?
Why should anyone suffer due to the absurd legal freedoms that allow all this pricing nonsense? One price to all people at all times supports the notion of equality and such a policy would bring prices down for everyone across the board. So you can blame companies for using all kinds of gimmicks in sales and stop blaming the little people on the bad end of the bargains.
Of course, it would be lovely if we could dispense with the entire status quo wherein mobile carriers subsidize the cost of phones to lock people in to long-term contracts. I'd gladly pay more for unlocked smartphones if it meant I could pay less for service (you'd better believe the cost of all those handsets is built into your bill) and switch at-will.
Now, it's true that you can buy some unlocked phones today, but it's far from the ideal situation for several reasons:
1. The price of unlocked phones is substantially above the wholesale price which phones are sold to the carriers for (I don't expect a volume discount like they get, but a few hundred dollars markup is a bit steep).
2. Some phones simply aren't available unlocked without going to the grey market, including the iPhone. That's because a lot of the most appealing phones (I'm debating an iPhone 3GS or an HTC Magic for my next) are offered as "exclusives" for a single carrier. That means that, in my region, if I want a particular phone, I'm stuck with AT&T or T-Mobile, respectively, for service.
3. No price break on service. If you bring your own phone to play, you're still paying the extra that would cover the cost of a carrier-provided phone, which in this case is pure extra profit for the carrier.
Now, just imagine if a similar situation existed with TVs: you only get a cool new TV when you sign up for an extended cable or satellite contract, and you're then locked into using that TV with that provider. You'd also have to consider the tradeoff between the features you want in a TV and the coverage and quality of service you get. In other words, it would be an intolerable, fragmented mess.
But the service providers love vendor lock-in, and the phone manufacturers are only to happy to collude with them. It would probably take regulatory action to cut this particular knot. It's not impossible (remember when the FCC finally forced the mobile carriers to implement cell number portability, then they all advertised it as a great new feature), but I certainly wouldn't hold my breath for it.
Anonymous Luddite: "What do you think of the dehumanizing effects of the Internet?"
Andy Grove: "Not Much."
+1 Insightful
You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
I see this as an insight on the customer base. I am a blackberry owner on verizon. I got the Curve just before the Storm was announced. I just thought mm that sucks well atleast this phone is stable and field tested. Sure enough the Storm came out with bugs galore. But you did not hear all of the blackberry user base crying fowl over this. So maybe this is an insight into the customer base of Apple. Whiney babies?
https://www.speakservers.com/
Went to get the 1st Gen iPhone 2 years ago and came home with a Samsung A727.instead.
My "upgrade fee" is $18 for an iPhone 3GS now.
I have no complaint!
I am my own gestalt.
Eh. Though the iPhone seemed pretty damn cool when it came out, I said 'no' and stayed with my current phone and provider because, well, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I didn't want to leave the provider I have been with for 8 years that has provided reliable (and relatively bullshit free) service throughout. I especially didn't want to switch to AT&T. It sucks, but I don't really feel bad about those who feel bent over. You took that risk in the first place and now have to pay the piper. I'd like to have an iPhone, but I will wait until Apple ends its exclusivity contract with AT&T and multiple providers support the iPhone. Until then, my phone will remain, just a phone. Until then, laissez faire!
What could possibly hurt the security of the American people more than giving our own government the ability to hide its
Classic:
AT&T just deleted the thread as I was reading it!
I tried every decent and legal way I could think of to resolve the issue w/the business before I rented the chicken suit
You get upgrade pricing from AT&T after 18 months. I'm eligible for upgrade now and still have 4 months left in my contract.
I can get a 32 GB USB drive on newegg for $62.99. So no, it is not worth $500 for the added space alone. How can you people keep doing this to yourself? It's a good phone, but the added functionality isn't work the price. Hell, for $600, the full retail price, you can get a whole MAC Mini, or a Windows Laptop! And neither of those require me to sign a contract with at network as spotty and overpriced as AT&T.
If you are not currently eligible for an upgrade but still want iPhone 3G S, we can offer you an early upgrade price of $399 (16 GB) and $499 (32 GB).
It's because it generates more ad revenue for web sites like Slashdot, Gizmodo, Engadget, et al. Stories like this about the latest Nokia wouldn't generate any traffic.
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
Absolutely. Besides, early adopters always get the shaft. That's the price you pay for being an early adopter.
This statement reflects a cliche that's just wrong.
Back in the 1980's, the concept of the database was just starting to filter down into the small business world, to replace paper. I remember helping my pappy set up his fire-breathing 286/20 (with 20 MB of HDD, and a whole MEGABYTE of RAM!!!) in order to take advantage of a custom database package based on FoxPro.
The computer had far less processing and storage power than my phone today. The screen was lower resolution, as well. Yet somehow, my pappy not only managed to justify the $10,000 price tag, he actually managed to come out ahead in about a year, in reduced man hours as well as "chased down" insurance payments that would have been missed otherwise.
Sure, you could put together the same package today for $3,100. ($3,000 for the software, $100 for the computer on EBay) But it's just idiotic to think that my pappy's small medical practice didn't come out ahead. And these guys who complain about $200? That works out to somewhere around $0.50 per day, less than I spend on the 2-litre of diet soda I buy every day on the way home from work.
Wwwwwaaaahhhh!
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
If you honestly think that you can take an income statement from the whole of AT&T and extrapolate the iPhone profit margins you are out of your mind. For all we know they are losing money hand-over-fist in one area and are compensating with obscene markups on iPhones.
Instead, let's go with what we know. We know the unsubsidized price of the phone is $200 more than the new contract price. So we can safely assume that $8.33 a month of your bill is going towards paying off your "loan".
I really wish that the market was just fundamentally changed. No other industry can get away with this shit. Would you be willing to "buy" a new Prius for $15,000 so long as you were forced to gas up and Toyota dealerships at $10.00/gallon for the life of the car? Hell no. Yet that's what were doing with phones. And people seem to love it.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
In addition, if you have had a phone for +/- 12 months, you can get a discount on a new one if you agree to a contract extension of a year.
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
AT&T's policies have been going downhill in recent years. I was with AT&T since 1997 and decided to change over to Verizon last year when AT&T was jerking me around with subscription pricing. Very happy with Verizon now.
I passed on the original iPhone because of the inevitable bugs and lack of 3G. I passed on the 3G iPhone because it stupidly STILL lacked copy&paste and also has horrible battery life. They've finally got it to the point I want. However, as one who qualifies for an upgrade from AT&T, can I go to the Apple store and get the upgrade, or do I HAVE to go directly to AT&T? I want the extended warranty (for phones and laptops and maybe high-end DSLR cameras the warranties are worth it - for everything else they're money thrown away) and do not want to deal with AT&T's idea of a "refurbished" phone in the event that I do need a replacement.
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
Crack cocaine users are upset that their local dealers aren't cutting them the same break they got for their first rock.
Unix, an obscure operating system developed by bored researchers in an attempt to get a better game playing experience.
Yeah, replying to an AC, but I have a G1, so here goes:
A.> Yeah, it can. Like run multiple applications at the same time that sustain network connections when you background each application. Try running several SSH connections at the same time off of the iPhone, and switching to the browser and back.
Poorly coded base OS? You mean the one that came with cut and paste support the minute it hit the stores? The one that supports Flash? A micro-SD card slot? The one you don't have to use iTunes with to transfer content because it will show up as a USB drive on almost any modern computer?
B.> That's your opinion. Personally, I'd rather have form over function if it means getting the job done. The G1 has an excellent keyboard, compared to what you get (or don't get) with an iPhone. Why give up screen real estate for a lesser on-screen keyboard?
C.> Go pay your phone bill. Enjoy the cost of that data plan!
D.> Let's hope it's free like all the other apps I have loaded on my G1.
The iPhone works for a lot of people, including some of my friends. The G1 works better for me, and I have no problems with T-Mobile's network. As far as 3G goes, I have it disabled on my phone to save battery life. I have no issues using 2G speeds for my needs.
If you want REAL speed from a cell network, then neither AT&T or T-Mobile can offer what Sprint or Verizon can with their EVDO networks. It's not even a comparison, provided you have the coverage.
You could just ditch the old iPhone and upgrade to a Nokia N97. The Nokia store called me today, and I will be there at 8:00AM tomorrow. The new N97 replaces my N95 8GB which has been wonderful.
Oh, and these are un-locked phones.
I have AT&T as my carrier, and my contract ran out long ago. Even if it did'nt buying a Nokia means upgrading is just switching SIM cards, then downloading a bunch of stuff.
As far as things you can get for the Nokia, remember that Nokia holds a substantial lead in 'smartphone' units over the iPhone, Blackberry, or G1. Last time I checked all of those combined didn't reach the Nokia numbers.
Go look http://www.nokiausa.com/
* Carthago Delenda Est *
I've been using AT&T now for 10+ years - people complain about them, I've never had an issue - maybe I could pay a little less, or have one or two minor things better, but they've always worked for me - I pay my bill on time and when I hit "send" the call connects - then, the iphone showed up and I wanted one and I got to have it - yay - I stood in line for one june 29, 2007 - they sold out of 8GB ones, so I bought the 4GB - I still have it - I wanted the 3G, but the app store & 2.0 firmware alone last summer were the big sellers, so I skipped that generation - it's now been 2 years and I'm eligible for an upgrade - this is the way it's always been with AT&T - stick around, and you'll get a deal, but you don't get discounts every time you ask for one - is that a huge loss? not really. if you have a 3G already, ask yourself how badly you want the 3GS features - if you want them badly enough, pay for them - if not, then wait - it's only 1 year out of your life in which you'll still have a super cool phone - you'll be fine
calling all destroyers
I bought a 3G iPhone six months ago, and magically next Wednesday it's going to become a lot more capable. Anybody who thought that the iPhone they bought was going to be The Gold Standard for the two years of their contract is a freakin' moron.
No buyer's remorse here. My phone's great, I don't need a new one, and the one I'll get someday in the future will be even better. There is no problem here.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
Just wait it out, you will be fine. This is no different then any other contract on any other phone, except, ofcourse this one is really cool.
6.8SPC TR of 550, l xwind at 6, drift rt at 26" drops 77". AT has 503 ft-lbs at 1403 fps. FT 0.86
AT&T owes iPhone customers nothing: they have a monopoly and can price accordingly. Fanboys should know the release cycle of Apple products by now and get their contracts accordingly.
I fail to see how making someone adhere to the terms of a voluntary contract can be outrageous.
By offering you an upgrade its already a bonus.
When you signed a contract did you at any point consider the possibility of an upgrade within 24 months, and did you ask AT&T if there was an upgrade path? And they they promise you one at XYZ price? If no then as the internets says, STFU.
Part of your monthly fee is going towards the subsidy that enabled you to get your shiny iphone 3G for cheaper than straight retail unlocked. You signed a fixed contract to do so. How hard is that to understand?
And let me pose another question: all you people whining about this, is this the first mobile phone contract you have entered into and / or is this the first time you have discussed the in/outs of entering a carrier contract? Never listened to a coworked or friend moan about how they're being gouged? Or read comments (like on slashdot)? OMG the sense of entitlement is killing me.
I find the tolerance for corporate greed and power in this thread really appaling, especially from the hacker crowd.
I've read a number of arguments that boil down to this: You should have read the contract. I don't care if you don't like it.
Well first off wireless carriers in this country do not offer contracts, they offer ultimatums. A proper contract is negotiated between parties who all have a say in the matter. Not only that but breaking a contract has consequences for both parties. This simply isn't what the monopoly in this case offers. You sign the paper they wrote without input or you get nothing. They get guaranteed revenue far in excess of their expenditure on the subsidy for a period of two years with no guarantee of service, reliability, or quality. You fail to pay and they terminate your account, they fail to provide coverage and you're stuck calling tech support.
To cut this to the bone, this is about power. They can dictate any terms they want unless the consumers act in a group to protest their policies. Remember this is a company that benefited multiple times from direct subsidies from the federal government, relies on access to public infrastructure to provide its service, cooperated in violating constitutionally protected private communications, and continues to make significant profit off of outrageously priced data fees despite the rest of the economy tanking.
If you're willing to sit back and get screwed by companies like this, then they will continue to screw not only you, but the rest of us. I'm not calling for boycott or anything stupidly overplayed like that, but for goodness sake, recognise when the system is not the peoples favor and have the compassion to voice your support for the rest of us getting screwed even if you personally enjoy the feeling.
I really hate people some times. You got one phone for free, so you feel that you need another? Get a damn job and buy one.
Xaotik Designs
Considering Boost is owned by Sprint, I'm not sure where this would get us.
Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
But, I think in these economic times, spending money where one needs/has to is better than the, IMHO, frivolousness of the iPhone.
I totally disagree. If it came down to it the iPhone is the last recurring monthly bill I would still be paying. Far from frivolous, it's the most practical thing I own.
It can play video and thus replace a TV with cable.
Of course it's a phone and can replace landlines.
It's a live internet connection all the time wherever you go.
It's an invaluable mapping tool for when you are wandering or lost.
The cost is utterly reasonable compared to so many other things people pay for (like Cable), given all that you can do... We are well and truly spoiled that anything under $100 a month sounds like much for the range of abilities you can get.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I have a Nokia 6236i phone from Verizon when I signed my 1 year contract about 3 years ago. After all fees and rebates, I ended up +$50 in the deal. Guess what? It does everything a phone should do. I can make outgoing calls and receive incoming calls. Mission accomplished. If you're the kind of dipshit who buys an iPhone for multiple hundreds of dollars just so you can show it off at Starbucks during the day and rub your penis on the touch screen at night, then you should just shut your mouth, bend over, and happily take whatever Apple and AT&T want to give you.
If you buy a Mini-Cooper on credit, don't come crying to me when Mini-Cooper comes out with a cuter car the following year. That's what your AT&T two-year inflated contract is for -- it's a form of debt. If you can't accept the consequences of taking on debt, don't sign up for it. Believe me, if you're willing to pay the money upfront, you can get some excellent unlocked smart-phones that will work on T-Mobile without having to pay a surcharge for service. Do that next time. Hell, if you don't mind paying for a termination fee, rumor has it that your iPhone will work on T-Mobile just as well (just don't count on getting the Apple firmware updates that way).
Let's see... 2 year service contract / 1 year hardware design cycle = 2 hardware revisions per contract period ... fewer users upgrading, lower hardware revenues. Maybe, just maybe, I can wait another year until the next incremental change happens. Sorry, as much as I enjoy using Apple products, this is really poor business strategy. You're losing a whole subset of potential customers willing to drop hundreds more on a new handset every year, who are now instead going to wait every two years to get the lowest price. It doesn't take a genius to look at how Apple has milked the iPod cash cow by tweaking the product every six months or so. Tiny incremental changes, advertised as revolutionary, just to get the masses to throw away their "obsolete" device for something new. It's like disposable technology, only the per unit cost is significantly higher.
This was never really about the money. $200 every year is less than $20 a month. People pay more than three times that amount just for the phone service, and we all know AT&T is gouging us. It was never really about contracts. It is about being played. I don't believe in Apple's way of manipulating its product lifecycle to get users to buy every incremental change. They could've made the iPhone 3G S last year. The technology existed. But they held back and they're dragging it out. It reeks of consumer exploitation. And if we weren't bound to a single carrier, you can be sure that the competitive pressure would be a good thing for the consumer. Frankly, for a group of people who enjoy a product so much they're willing to pay several hundred, if not a thousand, dollars a year, an extra few hundred is not a dealbreaker. But feeling like you're being taken for a fool...well, that's the sort of thing that drives people to develop a love/hate relationship with a company like Apple.
I've never wanted the Palm Pre to succeed as bad as I do now. I want all the competitors to succeed. Nokia, RIM, Samsung, LG, even Microsoft. I want them to make a kick-ass device that will give Apple a run for its money. I'm not holding my breath, but I can hope. Come on Android, make something great already. It's only when the competition actually poses a threat to market dominance that real innovation starts to happen, and prices go down.
The thing is, the iPhone 3G isn't somehow magically rendered obsolete just because Apple made an improved version. It still does what it does. And with the new OS, it'll do even more. Such is the way technology changes. Yes, I think I'm sticking with my current phone. I waited one year to get 3G, I waited another year to get video/MMS/etc. I told myself I'd buy the new iPhone no matter what. And after the wait, and seeing the writing on the wall, I've come to the realization that I don't really care about having Apple's latest toy anymore. In fact, I really don't do much with my existing iPhone anyway. So why continue buying into this scheme? To paraphrase Mark Twain, if you're being regarded as an idiot, why play along and remove all doubt?
This is perfectly normal, they give a $200 discount so people sign a 2 year agreement. A few give reduced discounts before the contract is up but a majority only give discount prices when your out of contract. Anyone who doesn't understand this and feels its a 'slap in the face' should grow up, it's not like they hide this fact at signup.
The Goal: A long simple life filled with many complex toys.
The new firmware/OS/whatever is neat, and available to all iPhones. The new hardware is barely incremental. Yeah there's a higher capacity model(hey, how about a memory slot? Anyone?), slightly better battery life (How about a user replaceable battery so you can carry a spare? You know, like every other cell phone ever invented?), and the compass is kinda neat (do the boy scouts have an iPhone survival badge?) but it's just not that big a deal. Even the fact that it's got a faster CPU doesn't matter that much. It's not like there's any apps that will only run on the newer phone (they've basically stated as much).
If they fixed the hardware limitations (which they're unlikely to do as that would eat into their ridiculous profits on memory, and it's just too dangerous to change your battery while driving a Volkswagen drinking a latte... ok, I'm a little biased, but that doesn't make me wrong! Why can't I change the battery myself?!? Like... without a soldering iron!) then I'd see upgrading to the iPhone 3.1, but not the iPhone 3.0001.
I guess asking for simple, basic features is out of the question, after all, we're talking about a company that took 20 years to give in and add a second button to their mice.
(This post is kinda all over the place. Sorry, it's really late, hopefully there's some sense in there somewhere...)
--Not to be worried, Pitr fix.
Touchscreens and hard buttons can coexist. In fact, it's the best of both worlds - you've got point & click for where it makes sense (like browsing), and yet can easily dial without looking.
When you buy a discounted phone and sign a 2 year contract, say it again, /contract/, you are getting a Loan. You get the Phone for cheaper but a piece of your monthly bill is actually payment towards your debt. What's so odd about them wanting you to complete your loan payments before they give you a new loan?
I have an HTC Kaiser (aka Tilt). I've had it for just over a year. There's a better HTC phone at that I would love to have, but I would have to pay more than I wish to if I want to upgrade, or I can wait a little longer and upgrade very cheap or for free. This is how the cell phone business works. So just STFU and stop whining.
-- Will program for bandwidth
Everyone in "Camp Linux" would cry foul and outrage, while the Mac and Windows camps would point and laugh?
Note: You can switch around any of those platform names in that sentence and it will always be true; it's like a Karnaugh map with all 1s. Unfortunately though, even though that indicates none of us should ever care about the inputs, we apparently missed that lesson in Digital Circuits 101.
CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
What the hell, I've got Karma to burn...
Apple/AT&T release a new phone and only new customers and customers with contracts about to end get it for upgrade pricing. Others are crying.
Guess what, cry babies...that's just like every other carrier in the US does. Its the industry standard here. Why did you expect different from AT&T and His Holiness Lord Steve? Contrary to what you think, you are not better than everyone else. Welcome to the real world.
I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
This is exactly why I stuck with my original iPhone for an extra six months, rather than taking the free upgrade to the 3G. It was obvious that Apple were bringing out the next version, and I would rather save money and have a phone I'm happy with than pay through the nose for the latest shiniest very-slightly-better version. Now (hopefully) I can have a free (or greatly reduced price) upgrade to the 3GS.
"The new iPhones are here! The new iPhones are here!"
I bought a Ford Mustang years ago, and then Ford had the nerve to introduce a redesigned model, with fuel injection and a CD player. I used Ford Credit, but they wouldn't exchange my old car for the new model, and my year old car was only worth HALF of what I payed for it.
Just go with a real smart phone like Nokia N97 or Palm Pre. They beat the crap out of iPhone in features and versatility and give you much better value for money, and you don't have make life long deal with the operator, at least not with Nokia devices.
From the post you replied to: "One cause is likely that many of these iPhone customers were never smartphone customers before. These people had no idea just how much money smartphones cost MSRP."
A smartphone isn't a flash chip and USB controller, so why compare to that? Indeed the 16GB of extra space on the iPhone 3GS is only $100, you can see that in the pricing - 16GB $199, 32GB $299.
its imperative to see that the Iphone is fundamentally just a communications device. the network may be powerful but at its luxury pricepoint will you find it useful? what do you seriously use it for and how is it still benefiting you when youre faced with the inevitability that large corporations burdoned by recessions are leaning on loyal customers for that extra push toward the 4th quarters earnings?
whats to stop them from charging 800 or 1000 for next years model?
Good people go to bed earlier.
Let me make sure I understand this correctly...
These shiny-chasers overpay for a phone because it comes out of the RDF. A year later a new one comes out, and they're pissed because they have to buy a new one without subsidy contract?
The same as everyone else has ALWAYS had to do it with these scumbags? What is it they think makes them special?
See, THIS kind of thing is why people pick on Apple fans. Mindboggling.
I was thinking the same sort of thing.
I stopped using contract cellular for various reasons, but I understood when I bought my first cellular (a contract phone) that I was paying for the phone by locking into the contract for so many months. How is AT&T supposed to make money giving away subsidized phones before they pay back the ones they've already subsidized?
It's been a long time.
You can buy a new iPhone for $100 (and bypass the upgrade fee/turn in your old phone), even if you are already a customer. It will cost you about $15 a month more to be on the "Family" plan, until your current contract ends. At that time, cancel your old iPhone contract, and go back to a single iPhone bill. That's what I did with the first round, but ended up keeping the original phone and giving it to my wife. $120 a month for 2 family plan iPhones is much better than $180 a month for 2 individual plans (if you need two phones in your household).
I cut diet soda out of my life in 2005 and lost 30 pounds. I was 210lbs at 5'8" which was the straight up short/fat geek look. Guess what? I changed nothing else in my life or diet, other than swapping out diet soda with water. Carbonation is bad, mmmkay?
All the frickus frackus about a phone with some software upgrades and faster processor. Imagine if this broke out every time Apple bumped their laptop line....
For me, I have an 8 month old G3 and will gladly enjoy the 3.0 OS upgrade FOR FREE. The next iPhone hardware revision is going to make the 3GS look like what it really is....a dot oh update.
Dr. LeRoy
You know, for all these Nokia fanboys, the only people I've ever met that actually own a Nokia are ones that have the cheap piece of crap Nokia phone they got for free with their contract. *None* of them have ever had any kind of Nokia "smartphone". They're always some candybar phone or a cheap flip phone the store was giving away. For a supposed popular company, they sure are shit for marketing smartphones to the USA because over here the only smartphones I've ever seen are Blackberries, iPhones, or Windows Mobile-based devices.
How is AT&T supposed to make money giving away subsidized phones before they pay back the ones they've already subsidized?
The overpriced data plan that they force you to sign up for?
You've already signed up for that. It's overpriced in part because they're paying a chunk of the price of the phone.
So why should they throw away another couple hundred dollars on a customer they already have?
It's been a long time.
You've already signed up for that. It's overpriced in part because they're paying a chunk of the price of the phone.
Yeah which answers your question of how they are going to get their money back.
So why should they throw away another couple hundred dollars on a customer they already have?
Because they are going to make that a couple times over on the ridiculous monthly bills from your phone and data plan?
Simple answer, go with a different carrier. MetroPCS for instance is cheap with unlimited calls, no contracts, and inexpensive phones (compared to the major carriers undiscounted price). Oh yeah you can't use the phone coast to coast with a whole bunch of dead spots. You also don't have the option of purchasing phones directly from them with any decent features, they're all rather basic unless you transfer a sprint/verizon phone. Thats the sacrifice for going with a carrier that doesn't screw you. They aren't as good, but I prefer paying them and dealing with their short comings than paying cingular/at&t/verizon/sprint greater prices with annoying contracts.
The Goal: A long simple life filled with many complex toys.
Phone companies are not going to give you a free or discounted phone if they have not recouped the cost of your "old" phone. duH!
We switched to a Cingular reseller, a 3-county cooperative, here in our town, keeping our Cingular numbers at the time. When it came time to switch back to AT&T to get the iPhone, it was going to take something like 5-6 weeks of paying for two numbers to keep the old Cingular number. Instant to transfer in from Verizon, but two months to keep the number the company itself had originally assigned.
Apple needs to chill out and stop crying because they are being treated like every other cell phone manufacturer. You can always upgrade every 2 years and you get a phone discounted when you sign the new contract. It is like that with AT&T, Verizon, and T Mobile. I mean customers aren't being treated any differently than they have been so put up with not having the newest shiny phone for a year or put out the extra cash. I mean if you wait until next year you will have the new shiny iPhone to show off to the guy who gets this one.
Just because you are wrong and I called you out on it doesn't mean I am a Troll.
There is an easy solution for getting the new iPhone at regular price even if you're in a contract.
Run an ad in Craigslist or somewhere. Advertise that you're GIVING AWAY your iPhone to anyone who will simply take over your ATT contract. Won't cost them anything; they just assume your billing. Your phone will be ringing off the hook for days once the ad runs. Then take this person with you to an ATT store, transfer the account at the same time you buy your new phone. Transfer your old number to your new phone.
I did this with an LG phone on an ALLTEL contract when I got my iPhone last year, and this year it will be just as easy.
Anyway, I don't understand why people think they are getting screwed by ATT wanting to get back the unpaid $200 left on your contract, money that is/was used to subsidize your phone.
If I didn't have absolutely NOTHING to do, I wouldn't be here.
No, it doesn't answer the question. Do they just add another 2 years to your contract then? I hope you really like that data plan and such, because you've got it for 4 years.
It's been a long time.
...treatment?
How is this any different than any other phone which comes out for a carrier?
This sounds like iPhone users being users demanding free stuff for absolutely no reason. They sound like self entitled users.
The entire reason the carrier offers these deals is to bring new users to their network. Period. Once they have you on a contract they have zero incentive to offer a discount. Why even require a two year contract if they allow these users to upgrade at a discounted rate? Wouldn't they then be obligated to allow all of their users to upgrade their phones at any time for no cost? How does this make any sense?
Grow up people. You signed a contract. Why should you get an upgrade without paying for it? Why should you be excused from your contract?
An iPhone could be a mobile pc, do my laundry, my dishes, drive me to work, and pack my lunches and I wouldnt buy it because it ment signing on with AT&T. To me Service is everything. To them. Service is something that ends once the contract is signed.
And this has been another installament of Captain Obvious!
EXCEPT for the 3GS.
Now the reason for this is likely that AT&T is getting bent over by Apple and forced to offer a bigger subsidy for the 3GS and they don't WANT to let us upgrade, but if I wanted a Razr or whatever the hell other phone they sell AT&T would give me the FULL, NEW CONTRACT price because it's been 11 months since my last one.
But not the 3GS. THAT is where I cry bullshit.
The only thing I can say is, THEY DESERVE IT !! Apple products are made for fools, so why are you all complaning ? * They sell it locked for abusive prices, unlocks are gettings harder every day (and there is no real unlock for 3g, like it was possible in 2g, only the yellowsnow thing in some 3g, but it is NOT a real baseband unlock. * They wanna charge for downloaded applications * They don't understand we want it UNLOCKED and not at abusive prices. That's why I keep using my Nokia. I pay to make my life EASIER, not harder... People signing contracts are fools to think apple is really caring about anything other their revenue...
I love Apple products, all in all, and I own quite a bit of their stuff. Still, when I read the list you posted, I'm not really all that convinced I "need" to get rid of my 3G iPhone and move up to the latest offering.
First off, sure, the camera is improved. But we're still talking about only a 3 megapixel fixed focus camera here, that doesn't even include a flash. If I need a good photo of something, I'm going to go with something like my pocket-sized Sony camera instead. It has 7.1 megapixels of resolution, a flash, 3x optical zoom and won't use up my limited storage capacity in my iPhone either. (Remember, the iPhone STILL has no SD card slot on it for extra storage!)
Second, the faster 3G support? Nice, in theory, but AT&T seems like they can barely keep up with the promised xfer speeds of the SLOWER 3G tier! They've been doing everything in their power to limit what you actually DO over that network on your iPhone, too. They won't let the Slingbox use it. It'll be MONTHS longer before they so much as let you send MMS video or photos over it. And again, it'll be months before they even start offering tethering on their network. So what's the rush to upgrade?
I'd argue that the rest of your points are relatively minor enhancements. (Really? I need to get rid of my now "craptastic" iPhone because it doesn't have the oil/water resistant finish?!)
The compass MAY turn into a pretty cool feature, but I'd say, only when apps start doing creative things with it. The fact it can currently show me my direction isn't that exciting in and of itself.
Please don't mistake me when I say this:
WHY DO YOU GUYS CARE?
Seriously. I bought a 2G iPhone when they first came out. Unlocked it, put it on T-Mobile. The 3G came out, and yes - wireless data service is undoubtedly faster, and you have real GPS. Otherwise our phones are identical.
So now the 3GS is out. Voice recognition seems to be the killer app here - but otherwise, you already HAVE a 3GS. Higher res camera and voice recognition are missing, true - but I have to think the voice recognition is in the software.
I haven't missed out on not having a 3G iPhone so far, and I sincerely doubt you guys are going to really miss out on much by not being early adopters of the 3GS. It won't be jailbroken right away, it's not unlockable (unless you import it, in which case this thread means nothing to you), and to be blunt, when it comes out, you have the superior product in your hand already.
I just don't get it. Someone want to clue me in? The metal casing on my 2G is starting to get beaten up enough for me to consider getting a new phone for that and more disk space, but by "new" I mean a used 3G once people start buying the 3GS, since the 3G is unlocked - but since T-Mobile's 3G data service isn't compatible, it's mostly getting an upgrade due to wear and tear, not for a new toy.
Seriously, fill me in on why you guys really care.
Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).
The general consensus is that people are being crybabies over the fact that they're being held to the contracts they signed, presumably of their own free will. No argument here. What baffles me is why people are even up in arms about upgrading - the differences between the iPhone 3G and 3GS are not really earth shattering - you can get a bigger capacity (up to 32 GB), autofocus camera, and the magnetometer... and that's about it. After all the hype over the new phone, I was pretty underwhelmed. Disclosure: I'm an iPhone 3g owner, and I'll be waiting until the next version to upgrade.
I've never owned an iPhone, personally I'm saving up for the HTC Touch HD. I just use to sell cellphones and have always been annoyed at people who whine about why they can't get the $200 discount 6 months into their 2 year agreement.
The Goal: A long simple life filled with many complex toys.
When the 3G came out, they let all iPhone 1.0 users to upgrade and resign a new 2 year. This will be fixed by the time it comes out. Do you beleive ATT and Apple want A) bad press B) not sell a product?? That is bad business! You just renew for another 2 more years, no big deal. If your like me I will still own a phone after 2 years, so signing up is no issue.
All of those now stuck with the iPhone 3G are feeling the pain the original iPhone adopters felt last year. What's better? Those who went with the iPhone when it was first released are about to be done with their 2-year contracts, making them eligible for the steep discounts on the NEW iPhone. What's worse? This same thing will happen next year when Apple releases the iPhone 4G.
[Trojan.]
When my Palm 700p died last fall, I didn't get all up in Verizon's grill about giving me a new phone. The rule has been the same pretty since wireless companies started -- you get a subsidy on your new phone, whether it's an iPhone or some disposable Nokia soap-bar phone, in return for signing up for a contract... usually 2-years long. Everyone knows this. iPhone users all upset about no discount on the new model (until their contracts expire) are crybabies, nothing more.
And if I were inclined to buy an iPhone (which I'm not... maybe an Android phone, we'll see), I could find much more to complain about. How about the fact that, if you're a serious iPhone user, you recharge you iPhone nearly every day, and yet, you'll get only 300-500 charge/discharge cycles out of that sort of Li-Poly cell. That's not going to outlast your contract. Casual users may do better, but I have yet to meet an iPhone user who doesn't charge nearly every day (and I'm surrounded by them, literally).
There's no case here -- AT&T is doing what every wireless carrier on the planet does. If they budge at all, it would be a business decision... too much bad press, and maybe the rumors of other carriers handling the iPhone soon are true. But I wouldn't hold my breath, and they know very well these guys are pretty much all going to stick with the iPhone, new or old.
-Dave Haynie
The new iPhone will eventually support AT&T's 7Mb/s network, but they haven't even switched it on yet, much less deployed it nation-wide. Chance are, if this upgrade is typical, many buyers will be onto the next iPhone after this before they get full speed coverage in their local areas.
Then there's the iPhone itself... while the current G3 model can connect at 3.5Mb/s or so... does anyone really think they're getting that kind of performance? My Treo, on Verizon's plain old EvDO 1.2a (or whatever) network, routinely outproduced the numerous iPhones that surround me, pretty much all the time (before its untimely death). If anything, their faster CPU will account for more real performance than any network improvements.
-Dave Haynie
Thank you! I'm glad someone gets it. I was actually thinking wah wah, I can't get a new iphone for cheap. Part of the problem is the i in iphone tends to be a phone for self absorbed people (not all). They think they deserve everything.
Only 'flamers' flame!
Does slashdot hate my posts?
So let me see if I have this straight. People want to break their current contract and buy a new phone? And they are complaining that their is a premium attached to this? My contract with AT&T clearly states that if I break my contract there will be penalty charged, a substantial penalty, much more than $200 dollars. It seems to me that AT&T is already offering a discount on the upgrade if its only $200 to break your current contract. When I bought my iPhone I realized that under the current conditions I was not going to be getting the newest model every year.
"personally I'm saving up for the HTC Touch HD."
Stop now. I upgraded from a Q that would crash constantly to a HTC 6800 running wm 6.1 and it's absolutely horrible. Every time it checks email it pops up a notification whether it's a new email or not, and the notification overrides anything you're doing including making a phone call. So you're typing in the number and the notification pops up and takes over the screen, close out of it and uh-oh your number is gone, start over. I've found a registry hack that's suppose to work but it doesn't.
I've been desperately seeking something to replace the interface but I've found nothing sufficient. Spb Mobile Shell is close but it doesn't replace the keypad and it doesn't stop the email notification.
I also can't stand only having a onscreen keyboard or sliding keyboard on the side. On the Q the keys were available and could be used with on hand, so the rare times I was driving and lost I could quickly google name and zip and find the address. That's very difficult to do with a touchscreen and impossible to do with the keyboard sliding to the side. Because of this I'm seriously considering a Palm Pre or Blackberry. The only thing that holds me to Windows Mobile is dashwire, an absolutely essential utility that automatically uploads all calls, contacts, photos, videos, text, etc to a website. Unfortunately it's only WM compatible but if it supported another OS I would be gone.
my karma will be here long after I'm gone
http://www.mass.gov/legis/bills/senate/st01/st01790.htm
I completely agree with that post's final sentence: "If you want to upgrade early then you will have to pay full price with no subsidy discount. You can't blame anyone but yourself for your predicament." Every American cell-phone user knows this is standard practice. If you want to buy a new phone from your provider before your contract is up or your upgrade option renews, then you pay the non-subsidized price. I simply do not feel the slightest bit sorry for these whiners who feel that buying an iPhone last June/July somehow makes them special.
are people going to discard their old iphones? i'll take them...for free since theyre so eager to have a new one. are they going to chuck their old iphones in the landfill? wow. i dont think its elitism so much as it is consumerism writ large and ugly. what a waste of resources.
its amazing how current iphone users are blind to what they already have. i cant think of a $300-400 toy that i would replace every year....upgrade my PS3 every year to get a bigger HD? Buy a new PC every year to get an extra .5 ghz? i still have my first gen ipod. i dont see the reason to upgrade as long as it still functions as i expect it (yeah ive replaced the battery twice). and i like my first gen iphone. it still performs well as a phone/email/checker/browser. and my wife wouldnt let me upgrade anyway.
something looms in middle distance and the future gets nostalgic for what i'd said it'd be...but i could not foresee.
So Assume someone got a iPhone 3G on July 11 last year (launch day). That's 11 months So AT&T's Early Termination fee is $175 - ($5 * 11) = $120 So pay the $120 and port your number to a cheap pre-paid. Then once you've paid the fee and closed the AT&T account go back as a "new" customer and get the $200 discount! I left my last cell phone provider and moved to a new one simply because when my phone died with 6 months left on my contract it was cheep to break the contract and buy new phones with a discount at a different provider then to replace the broken phone. I figure using this method people could save $80 (but it may mean being without a working iPhone for a couple of weeks). As a side note, about a week after I ported the numbers I got a mailing from the original provider offering me the "2-year contract price on new phones" and 10% off my old plan if I would come back. Not sure if AT&T does this, but after you port the number you my find them willing to play ball to get you back, but YMMV.
Anyone who doesn't understand this and feels its a 'slap in the face' should grow up, it's not like they hide this fact at signup.
The problem isn't whether or not they hid anything. The problem is that unless things have changed you CANNOT buy an iPhone at any price without the contract extension. The subsidy isn't in exchange for anything. Furthermore it creates a disincentive for me to upgrade my current phone (not an iPhone) which hurts Apple and hurts AT&T because I'm paying less than I would if they didn't have this stupid policy.
I bought my wife an iPhone 3G shortly after it came out and AT&T wouldn't give me the discounted price despite the fact that I have NEVER bought a subsidized phone from AT&T in 10 years. Without getting into the particulars of why, I bought her iPhone 3G at *full unsubsidized price* but I still am subject to the 2 year lockup. Why? AT&T did not subsidize my purchase so there is no argument to be made that they are being compensated for subsidizing my purchase. Furthermore I've been an AT&T wireless customer for 10 years. Treating your long time customers like this isn't a great way to reduce customer churn.
As a G1 owner myself, I was going to reply to the AC but you filled in the gaps nicely.
I had to laugh when the dipstick made the claim that the G1's Linux core is a "poorly coded base OS." Bad tactical move on Slashdot, any way you slice it. Granted, the iPhone's use of BSD Unix was also a solid choice (and in both cases leverages the originating company's design preferences and experience.) But to call the Linux kernel "poorly coded"? Pretty well shot himself in the foot right there, credibility-wise.
What's hysterical to me is how vehement iPhoner's get in their attacks on the G1. Okay, so there's another phone with a touchscreen and some technical superiority over the iPhone on the market. Why the venom? I mean, this presumption that the so-called Googlephone was some attempt at an "iPhone killer" just shows how flawed their analysis of the situation really is.
Put it this way: Android was never meant to be a threat to the iPhone, because the iPhone is no threat to Google. Matter of fact, the iPhone supports Google's services nicely, so it wouldn't be in Google's interests to even try and kill it off. No, I'd say the real reason that Google chose to invest in Android and form the Android Alliance is because they wish to head off Windows Mobile. Microsoft wants a bigger slice of Google's pie, and Google felt the need to take a proactive step to prevent that.
It worked, so far as I'm concerned. I didn't want an iPhone (I dislike Apple about as much as I detest Microsoft, and for many of the same reasons) and was holding off buying a smartphone until something better, something more open, came along. It finally did, and I'm real happy with it. Personally, I find the thought of a fully functional Internet-aware Linux box in the palm of my hand kinda cool.
The fact that I don't have to kowtow to a hardware manufacturer with an agenda when it comes to the apps I can choose was also very appealing. This idea that Apple has promoted that only applications certified by Apple should run on hardware the users have purchased outright is ridiculous. I also don't like the way they manage their developers. Google was easy: $25 to sign up, and the Dev SDK was free.
Besides, having received the recent Cupcake OTA update, I can see that Google and HTC intend to make something way cool out of Android. I think I'll stick with it for a while, see where it ends up.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
My big complaint is, if they are going to charge me either with or without the contract for the price of the hardware, why should they be able to limit what I can do with it.
In response to Icebike and MrCrassic, one way current iPhone users could revolt is to en mass start contributing $25 to an escrow account set up to pay developers or some network that will write software to shift all iPhones enrolled into a new, mesh, non-major-isp supported network. Maybe the packets WILL inevitably have to travel over an existing net, but if the contract terminates, and the new software turns the 3G and earlier model into something akin to a portable computer, maybe even better than the 3G S, and if that phone is on a new network not under Apple's nor under AT&T's control, then i wonder whether Apple or AT&T would have any legal right (or immunity) to brick those phones that are explicitly removed from AT&T's subscription. If the phones are tethered (by ID) and enrolled into a data bank (say, with a court or with the FCC or some cognizant agency of the government that might take a dim view on Apple or AT&T or any carrier crying foul or soul grapes fucking around with hardware that is NOT theirs...) the business model, the blueprints TO the phone still remain AT&T's and Apple's property, but the SOLD PHONE is NNNNNOTTTt any longer their property to fuck with once it's off-contract.
Now, the only way to combat that would be if Apple built in a time-bomb that starts ticking when the phone is initially activated and told what its self-destruct date is, which might be the contract expiry date + 24 hours, or some nonsense like that.
This "repurposing" of "old" iPhones, and older iPods might be a way for "green" types of people to contribute their "old" hardware to developing nations -- provided the donation area has towers or mesh nets that can actually talk to the phone. Heck, it might even change some domestic tax/donation valuation codes. If the iPhone sold at $699 is worth the same as one sold at $199, or vice versa, then what is the real value of the physical phone when sold or donated after 2 years. Maybe if enough green Apple fans en mass might start a trend where for various reasons the IRS or other tax organs may be shunned into permitting a tax break for the donor. OTOH, if no tax break is allowed for overseas recipients, then maybe schools could be wired to handle these phones as teaching assistance devices. Might create new business models. But, it'll have to be quick, decisive, and well-funded to prevent an Apple counter attack. If Apple hasn't got a big enough lobby in Washington, then it's possible that someone can orchestrate a political movement to start embarrassing manufacturers that design nearly un-upgradable hardware when software should do much more of the upgrading than fancy shell-change games. If anything, the phone body recycling market needs to be improved so all that plastic and the toxic internals are deal with.
In fairness to Apple, it could tell all the more snively/nasally of its fans to STFU or the two could work together to offset the cost of obtaining a 3G S iPhone. More, even if Apple reduced the 3G S to $199 for ALL takers, what becomes of all the now 'obsoleted' pre-3G S iPhones? There might be the possibility that 80% every single previously-sold iPhone ends up in the trash, because THAT many of them can't feasibly be recycled (possibly this negates my recycling suggestion above...)... But, if that many CAN be recovered and given new life, they definitely then belong in the hands of schools that receive them as nearly-crippled, and for-schoo-use-only, if some support will be made for leaving slack room for new product hardware sales.
Anyway...
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
Remember when Motorola went from the MicroTac (which was anything but micro) to the StarTac?
The first StarTacs were $1200. Next gen was $600, then $250, then $99, then they went away, now Motorola is going away too.
As far as I am concerned, the StarTac was the height of evolution of the cellular phone.
Ask Me About... The 80's!
Well, there you go... start selling banana-shaped protectors for iPhones, and they will fit in the palm and the grip of a hand. Sexy, AND sensual iPhone... Call it an iBone... iGrip.... But, it might make Apple go bananas... Now, for the adult market, you could sell iPhal for the iBone that was the iPhone.... Might make for a backup income stream in this and the next economy...
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
"Its not like they're selling you a $200 iPhone for $400. They're selling you a $400 iPhone for $400, with a discount for signing a NEW contract. Jeez."
I say they're selling a ***$100* for $400. If the phone didn't come from Apple, or if it looked crappy, but contained the same interface, i bet it would not sell for very long at $400. It might drop to $100, then lower, until they made it obsolete and vigorously replaced it at a higher cost. But, i suppose the software AND the look are what drive this craze for an iPhone, and it sure helps Apple that it came from Apple. I wonder if the iPhone would sell as well if microsoft and Apple secretly sold it as a microsoft product but Apple got paid behind the scenes... (Yeh, i realize it wouldn't remain a secret for more than a few weeks... internal revolt by Apple employees, leaks by contract manufacturers, etc...)
At $199, it's pretty damned tempting to switch to AT&T, but that is still pricey for me. Now, if it got subsidized down to $100 or $150, and had a decent ~$50/month plan and if i could mix/match my music/media files (protected and unprotected mp3s, etc...) and if the contract contained clause that said if i verifiably moved to an area not served by them (domestically or overseas, my choice), and all i had to pay wasn an ETF of NO MORE THAN $200, maybe... maybe i might definitely buy that phone and drop my hangups over AT&T....
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
I usually split the difference when I buy a new cell-phone. I force them into a 1-year agreement &
split the difference on the phone cost.
At least verizon has been willing to do this, but AT&T & Apple have a monopoly on the iPhone (which is substantially different from a generic 'smartphone', though one might argue that it's a mixed bag of benefits and deficits) -- like, perhaps, AT&T's monopoly position on offering the phone and their ability to dictate terms -- rather than being willing to negotiate or be reasonable with customers.
AT&T is a greedy bitch. My US cousins have to pay close to $100 for "fair use" usage on their phones-- but at least you guys have an upgrade path. Current iPhone 3G users here in the UK are forced by their cell phone provider, O2, to wait until 1 month before their contract ends before they can negotiate a switch. Of course since the contracts are 18 months, for most early adopters that means January 2010. I don't know why, but this makes me furious. Oh well, patience is a virtue, I suppose.
Look at it this way. If the service provider is being unfair to the customer, then go to the partner. Apple is embedded with ATT, so if ATT won't give people what they want, then Apple who is in essence represented by ATT, would naturally be the one to complain to. After all, if ATT makes Apple look bad, then Apple won't want to partner with them exclusively...perhaps breaking ties, or or opening up the iPhone to other carriers. Without ATT customers, then there are no iPhone customers, and if you make it clear that you won't be buying any more services from ATT if they don't change their policies, this will hurt iPhone's sales..and Apple doesn't want that.
I hear Androids and Pre's aren't bad.
There are 2 groups of people you can make fun of on the Internet without fear of attack. The illiterate, and the Amish.
While my love of freedom agrees with you and I believe a person should have the *legal* right to unlock a phone/console/whatever. I also believe that a company like apple or at&t has the right to make it a royal bitch for you to do it. It should be up to the market to decide if DRM/proprietary things should survive, it shouldn't be legislated in or out.
The Goal: A long simple life filled with many complex toys.
You sound a lot like a friend of mine who loved his Q and made many of the points you made. I believe this is just a matter of personal taste. The Q's one handed typing ability isn't a selling point for me. If I'm driving and have to text I just use my knee to hold the steering wheel and look straight ahead. Since I'm using two hands all my practiced blind qwerty typing experience transfers over perfectly and I rarely make mistakes. And for all those naysayes, if I suddenly had to brake its really easy to toss my phone and grab the wheel, no different than if you were driving one handed.
As for the email issues, they didn't bother me. I used an HTC Tytn for years and was perfectly happy with it.
The Goal: A long simple life filled with many complex toys.
So, here's the slap in the face:
If I upgrade early, I'm paying full price for the phone, there is no subsidy. That's fine, I have no problem with that. I'm not yet at the point in my contract that they'll give me another subsidy on the phone.
But... The phone is still subsidy locked to AT&T. I've just paid full unsubsidized price for it, it's mine. They shouldn't be allowed to lock the phone at that point.
THAT is a slap in the face.
Absolutely agreed. Which is why I see no moral dilemma when it comes to hacking a phone for any personal purpose you want to put it towards.
The Goal: A long simple life filled with many complex toys.
... my T-Mobile phone runs Linux and yours doesn't.
/. -- the Free Republic of technology.
Apple pulled it from the App Store.