Slashdot Mirror
SSN Required To Buy Palm Pre
UltraOne writes "Sprint requires your Social Security number in order to run a credit check before they will allow you to open an account, according to a store manager in Silver Spring, MD. Since Sprint is the exclusive carrier for the Palm Pre, if you are not willing to provide an SSN, you can't buy this product.
I believe a full credit check for this level of consumer purchase is a clear example of overkill. I have supplied an SSN when buying a house and renting an apartment, but never for any other consumer purchase. I have purchased my cars with cash so far, so I don't have first-hand experience, but a car loan also seems to be an appropriate place to require an SSN for a credit check. At the very least, Sprint should have an alternative for people who don't want to give out their SSN. I also found the entire experience a powerful argument against exclusive license agreements." Read below for details of this reader's experience.
I was eager to purchase the Palm Pre to replace my aging Zire 72s, and also consolidate my PDA and mobile phone into a single device. Since reviews have generally been positive, I headed to my local Sprint store (8501 Fenton Street, Silver Spring, MD). My current mobile carrier is Verizon, so I also needed to set up service with Sprint.
The store had the Pre in stock, and the sale proceeded smoothly until the sales associate asked me for my Social Security number. He had already verified my identity with a driver's license. When I asked why the SSN was needed, he said it was to run a credit check. I offered a credit card instead, but he said that the SSN was required.
I asked to speak to the manager, who was a pleasant young woman, but not able to resolve the problem. She confirmed that Sprint required the SSN to run a credit check (through a credit bureau) before opening an account. I told her that I understood Sprint had an interest in making sure that I could pay for the service (I was planning to get the $70/month Everything Data 450 plan), but that I was concerned about identity theft and privacy. I offered several other options, including a check on my credit card limit, which is an order of magnitude greater than the combined price of the phone and two-year contract; placing the maximum deposit that Sprint requires from people with poor credit ($500); or pre-paying the entire two-year plan on the spot. None of these was acceptable options, so Sprint lost the sale.
I was eager to purchase the Palm Pre to replace my aging Zire 72s, and also consolidate my PDA and mobile phone into a single device. Since reviews have generally been positive, I headed to my local Sprint store (8501 Fenton Street, Silver Spring, MD). My current mobile carrier is Verizon, so I also needed to set up service with Sprint.
The store had the Pre in stock, and the sale proceeded smoothly until the sales associate asked me for my Social Security number. He had already verified my identity with a driver's license. When I asked why the SSN was needed, he said it was to run a credit check. I offered a credit card instead, but he said that the SSN was required.
I asked to speak to the manager, who was a pleasant young woman, but not able to resolve the problem. She confirmed that Sprint required the SSN to run a credit check (through a credit bureau) before opening an account. I told her that I understood Sprint had an interest in making sure that I could pay for the service (I was planning to get the $70/month Everything Data 450 plan), but that I was concerned about identity theft and privacy. I offered several other options, including a check on my credit card limit, which is an order of magnitude greater than the combined price of the phone and two-year contract; placing the maximum deposit that Sprint requires from people with poor credit ($500); or pre-paying the entire two-year plan on the spot. None of these was acceptable options, so Sprint lost the sale.
Is there a cellphone provider that doesn't require you to provide your SSN before signing up for a contract?
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
a stolen valid credit card number and SSN costs pretty nothing.
if SSN requirement is to protect from stolen identity, it won't simply work.
The world belongs to those who get up early. - I'm far from being the king of Earth then
Eventually, one of these manufacturers (I'm looling at you Nokia) is going to break ranks and stop signing exclusive deals. They'll actually make phones with a price point that is reasonable (ya know, like the god damn iPhone is outright? how the hell has Apple become the low cost option you greedy bastards?) and sell directly to consumers. Retail really isn't that hard these days.. just provide a web only shop.. then cave a few years later and open emporiums.
How we know is more important than what we know.
First - never call your new phone an 'iPhone killer'.
Second - if you're going to make an iPhone botherer, make sure it's easily accessible to the masses. All that marketing and hype will do you no good if you pull of a gimmick like this or simply weren't aware of it when making an exclusivity deal.
Third - don't do exclusivity deals, what is the point in that?!
Fourth - I for one would like to welcome our SSN... ah never mind.
Always proofread carefully to see if you any words out.
On the other hand, perhaps mobile contracts require a SSN these days in order that you can more easily be monitored by law enforcement. In which case, you're SOL till they're on sale SIM-free.
It's pretty likely they'll be unlockable soon enough, and then you'll see them on ebay. You're obviously willing to pay a premium, so keep your eyes open.
Asking for that SSN to run a credit check is half of the problem. The second half is that credit is the worst thing to happen to working people and society as a whole. Almost all of us would be better off if we had really lousy credit ratings, Instead we have gotten to the point that we must have credit to house ourselves, to transport ourselves and now to simply get a phone. Wage slave is not a goal that one wants to reach. End credit and watch the prices of homes, cars etc. fall to reasonable levels.
What about running a credit check on yourself (costs ~$12) and presenting them a copy of it (maybe with the non-essential details redacted)? I mean, you get the same information they do, so what's the big idea? You can forge a printout, but you can't forge anything when you present it from a website (such as MyFICO). In fact, looking at the credit report I printed earlier, I can see that the SSN is redacted automatically and only the last 4 digits are shown. The rest of the information is public knowledge (current address), or innocuous (birth month and year). Giving out your SSN is total bullshit. Tinfoil hat or not, I go out of my way to avoid it.
Here in The Netherlands we already have had a few of those schemes, for example for the iPhone. Apple decided to go with T-Mobile, which may work fine in a few other countries (Germany, Austria), but over here I can only get reception when I'm on the 2nd floor of my house, or in the center of the city. While having to give out your SSN is not good, at least you have a working phone afterwards. Here we have to do the same (they photocopy your passport etc. as well) and then discover you can't use it... It was one of the reasons I did not buy an iPhone. Fortunately Belgium has outlawed exclusive contracts so I can go there and pick one up. Still, the attitude of "screw the customer, we get more money this way" does nothing for Apple's image and sealed my decision to keep my old phone for now.
Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)
... well, at least, the ones I've had experience with.
I've been with T-Mobile (BlackBerry), AT&T (iPhone), and now Sprint (Pre), and they all asked for SSN when signing up. I don't think any place is going to let you into a contract with a subsidized phone without running a credit check (hence the SSN request), especially with the economy in the shape it is nowadays.
Did you have experience at another provider that didn't ask for an SSN when selling you a subsidized phone?
So the gist of this story is that the submitter doesn't understand finance?
A Palm Pre, or any other smartphone, costs a boat load and is subsidised by the carrier, but you need a contract to pay back the cost of the phone. In effect you are getting a $400 - $800 loan, depending on the device, the phone, and the contract/amount it is subsidised.
Now normal loans (not just "car loans" which are just one type of typically unsecured loan) usually have a credit check because it would be stupid to lend money to someone with a credit history that is all arrears and defaults. The poster probably doesn't realise that many, many people actually live life in debt, arrears and defaulting, and that a simple credit check can remove a lot of risk for the phone companies.
The obvious solution in this case is to allow someone to buy the Palm Pre at full price, and then supply them with a rolling contract (without subsidy cost factored in).
All cellular service providers require an SSN for service. It wasn't needed to buy the Pre or because of any exclusive arrangement between Palm & Sprint.
that everyone has a social security number. There is no requirement to have one. I love the stunned looks I get when I reply "I don't have one". I actually have one, but they don't need to know that either.
Michigan has very strict SSN disclosure laws, and while IANALNPOOTV, I have to wonder if this requirement is even lawful.
The problem with socialism is that they always run out of other people's money. - Margaret Thatcher
This is definitely not something new. All models of the iPhone have required a credit check as well, and this is pretty much standard procedure in the mobile industry. I guess it's a slow news day.
For lack of a better signature...
If you can't walk in cash in hand, and walk out with product in hand,
it is not worth buying -- no self respecting free (wo)man would stand for such horse manure.
Welcome to America, land of the free*
*terms and conditions apply. See in store for details.
"A week in the lab saves an hour in the library"
Why the hell do you need nuclear submarine just to buy a phone?
I live in Argentina and in order to legally buy a cellphone you need (to have and) show your DNI (ID) and not only that, they also do 2 photocopies of it.(The store keeps one archived and the other goes to the government for investigation).
A lot of people are actually banned from buying equipment or new cell lines, so they often go to the black market to fulfill their needs.
Regardless of that, I only use my D.N.I. (National ID document) for voting and bank related paperwork. For general ID we got a CI (ID card) that according to the law we should carry it at all times). Oh, also we need a driving license if you are driving so there goes ID # 3.
When the palm pre is available in other countries (europe, etc), just order one over the internet from there - no SSN necessary.
I'm sure if you pay a bit more that you will be able to get one that is not locked to any carrier.
How much is your privacy worth?
I've been told "$500 deposit required if you do not have an SSN" by T-Mobile (and you want a contract service.) So add $500 to any phone. For satellite TV, similar deal: $300 premium to get service from DirectTV without supplying an SSN (which has been refunded over time.)
If you think about it, the problem for the ocmpany is risk management and they often accept cash "bribes" to convince them that you're not risky.
This is probably the result of the "Know thy User" clause in the Patriot Act.
Some time ago I was in a Sprint store when a customer with no SSN wanted to start a contract. The rep didn't know how to handle it, so she called a support number. The solution? She was told to enter all zeros and that the only consequence would be the new customer would have to pay the maximum security deposit.
Things may have changed, but it seems more likely that the rep was just to lazy to find out the real solution.
That said, I despise Sprint and always try to steer friends and family away from their service.
As many have described here, the SSN wasn't require to buy the phone. And as Perry Mason would say, this story is "incompetent, irrelevant and immaterial."
That's what I did to AT&T. The funny thing was that later I had to identify myself on the phone and they asked for the last 4 digits. Whoops!
It turned out ok though, I eventually remembered the fake one I gave them. Turns out the last 4 digits were the same as the first 4 of my credit card. I'm apparently very bad at making up random numbers on the fly...
Considering that most modern democratic nations in the western world tend to subscribe to the free-market capitalistic world-view, I really don't understand how mobile carriers get away with these exclusivity deals. Not only are they tantamount to a monopoly in a particular market, but they constitute collusion between the manufacturer and the carrier.
Where are the consumer watchdogs ? Where are the anti-competition commissions ? Why isn't something being done about this anti-competitive behaviour ?
David de Groot Snr Systems Engineer
When I tried to sign up for Verizon's wireless data service they wouldn't let me pass the credit check without a land line. I tried to tell them I didn't have a land line but they couldn't cope with that. Eventually the girl at the counter gave her sister's apartment number to the credit check guys (she didn't have a land line either). Got to love unbending bureaucracy.
There. Now go play some cool javascript games!
Since in this case (Palm pre) there are competitors from just about every other manufacturer, and it is a new product, it is not an issue.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
http://www.consumersunion.org/pub/core_financial_services/004801.html Apparently in some states, they should not be able to do this. Of course I may not understand the full extent of the law as it applies, but it seems to me that this is a consumer product and they are refusing to sell based off of a lack of social security num...
When all else fails, try.
It is not beyond the wit of the credit reference agencies to identify a US citizen from stuff other than the (it appears horribly abused) SSN?
I mean, if Experian can manage it in the UK (Name, Address, DOB is usually enough to identify you with the CRA,) why can't they do it in the US?
Or is this just simply laziness on the part of the CRAs?
http://harridanic.com
Most carriers do not require a SSN to do a credit check. However, if they fail to find credit history without one you would be required to pay a security deposit. Since it tends to be a lot of work or time consuming on the reps side they often tell customers it is required. If you don't want to give it, escalate to a manager or find another store.
I bought an iPhone this weekend - it was my father's day gift from my wife. AT&T needed my driver's license, SS#, and payment.
It was what they required to make the purchase, so that's the information I gave them. I didn't think anything of it other than that it took a while. But in the end, I had a new internet utility that doubled as a phone and an iPod, and I love it. It's a great gadget.
You may lament that they require your SS#, but it's the people like me who simply don't care for the hassle that make it hard for the people like you.
Where have YOU been? Didn't you know that over the past 20 years, the SSN has turned into the National ID Number? It doesn't matter that there was EXTREME concern that this might happen way back when the SSN was invented, it happened anyway.
Your right to privacy and anonymous purchasing disappeared a long time ago, so get used to it. "Credit checks" were just the first step. After that, it was manipulated for tax purposes. Then it spread to all kinds of interesting other "must have" situations or they refuse service. Even several doctor's offices I went to (and no, they weren't running a credit check nor was I on Medicare/Medicaid) HAD to have my SSN. PROSPECTIVE employers insist they HAVE to have the SSN. Movie rental places seem to think they HAVE to have your SSN. It took MANY YEARS of fighting before the citizens in my state FINALLY had the SSN removed as the mandatory driver's license number.
The package will be nice and complete once the Fed starts to force collection of fingerprints and DNA from everyone; it is coming... Most Americans don't have any understanding about privacy and security. "If you have nothing to hide" and all that, is the typical, brainless, response.
I've had three carriers over the past twelve years, and a SSN and credit check were part of the agreement every time. They want your FICO score to determine the statistical likelihood that you will pay on time, pay late, or breach the contract. Then, if you score too low, they may either deny to provide service to you (as they did for me once many years ago when my credit score was in the crapper), put limitations on your account (e.g., a security deposit), grant you an account, or grant you an account and immediately offer to provide you with x additional phones for other members of your family.
I use irony whenever I can, but my shirts are still wrinkled...
I thought the Pre could also be bought from Best Buy. And I've seen stuff online about using it without it being activated by Sprint (not sure if anyone's gotten it working on another carrier though; but Wi-Fi would still work?)
Don't buy it.
If you don't want to sell me something on sensible terms, I don't want to buy. Supply has to match demand at least at a nominal level, if it does not, no sale.
I dunno, when did we get so desperate to buy that we bent over backwards on whatever our possible business partner wants? I could see it for food or shelter, but for electronic gadgets? First, I lived without one so far, I will be able to survive without one. I have proof that I can (I lived so far). Second, my life depends on many things, but not on this one.
Bottom line: I will survive without you as my supplier. Will you survive without me as your customer?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Why can't they run the credit check, then discard the SSN? IF they need some number to update the credit history, then let the credit reporting agency give them some auto-generated account number at that time. There's lots of security benefits to doing that anyway.
I don't see how the SSN requirement has anything to do with carrier exclusivity agreements for phones. The Palm Pre is a TDMA phone that will only work on Sprint anyways. We aren't talking about a GSM phone that can be moved to other carriers. If palm wanted the Pre to work on other networks they would have to introduce additional models for the other protocols that are used in this country and/or the rest of the world.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
Don't buy those things, they are "tied products" which is illegal. If you wouldn't pay for the item at 800+ with free internet, why would you pay 200 and make it up in internet fees?
That's how it works in the US - if you want to open up a postpaid cell account you'll have to give them the info they need to access your credit report. And the agencies use your SSN to identify you. Game over.
Don't like that? Get a prepaid cellphone. You probably won't be able to buy the "hottest" models or just-launched phones like the Pre (iPhones aren't available for prepaid, either). With the CDMA providers (Sprint and Verizon) it's a PITA to change anything but you can get the GSM phone of your choice when it's available unlocked and then use it with an AT&T or T-Mobile prepaid account SIM. No credit checks or SSN required that way.
(Also, if you have a cheap-ish phone on a contract and it breaks, you can replace it with a prepaid phone from the same vendor and that way be able to get a replacement without affecting contract issues. I did this for my in-laws when their phone broke.)
-- Josh Turiel
"2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
For example, at Montclair State University they ask you for your SSN whenever you want to take out a library book.
Palm as a company is in the midst of it's death throes. They have had horrendous customer service for years. They don't honor their own warranties. They don't sell aftermarket replacement parts for parts known to break on their products. If you want a Palm repaired, you have to go to a third-party, or pay them close to full original retail!
In order to "save" their company, they introduced a new operating system that abandoned all of the embedded base of software. They deployed their "Hail Mary" pass phone on one of the lower-quality lower-penetration wireless networks.
Now through that exclusivity contract, they are making it a pain to purchase their product.
So, tell me again, why do you want a Pre?
This seems to be one of those things where sure, you can insist on your rights and you'll simply miss out on things. Want a Pre? Then submit. It's a free country, don't be a whiner, yadda yadda. You need a credit check to get a job. Hey, you know what? Someone who's been out of work a while in this economy might have bad credit! Well, we certainly can't let a filthy fucker like that get a head up!
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
but place of residency when applying for the SSN
So, ..here's a silly question, only because it's coming more and more common: What if you don't have a credit score, because you've been paying cash for things for so long? I'm sure they'll have far more folks who have bad credit and wouldn't qualify, but ...what if you've gotten on the 'save up and pay cash' plan and aren't in debt, so you don't have a credit score? You can't buy a Palm Pre?
I find it very interesting that Sprint is putting out a phone that the average millionare can't buy, because they don't have a credit score anymore, (because they've been paying cash for things for that long.)
Awk! Pieces of eight. Pieces of eight. Pieces of seven... ERROR: General Protection Fault. [Paroty Error.]
Sprint at one time approved everyone with no deposit. This came to a bad end as they were forced to write off millions in unpaid accounts. It is one of the reasons the company is doing so bad. Even when they approved everyone with no deposit they still required a credit check. Those exceptions who did not get "approved" were those who still owed Sprint money from previous service. All phone prices are subsidized and they give you a break on the price by you agreeing to a service contract. Sprint offers a no contract deal at a 10 dollar a month penalty and you pay full retail for the phone. They still require a credit check. If you have a low 400 - 650 score on your credit you are most likely not going to pay your bill. They are in buisness and have a right to protect thier interests ie profits. I am baffled that this gentlement doesn't remember giving his ssn to verizon when he signed a contract with them. Off course thier is a way to not give your ssn and still have credit run. It takes a while and in the end they still get your ssn. Most retailers wont use this method because it is a pain in the backside.
Right. This is an interesting placement of this story, so soon after the rollout of the Pre.
It almost makes it sound like you could run over to AT&T and get an iPhone without an SSN.
Yes, I know you can buy them from third-parties now, as you soon will with the Pre. But whenever I see such a specific complaint about a single, desirable product so soon after its release, especially when it's criticism for an industry-wide practice, I get suspicious.
Why wasn't the headline "Cellular Providers Require SSN for Contracts"? Instead we get "SSN Required to Buy Palm Pre".
You are welcome on my lawn.
Sprint requires from people with poor credit ($500); or pre-paying the entire two-year plan on the spot. None of these was acceptable options,
We've been through this with the iPhone already. The law prevents them from requiring your ssn as terms of a sale. They can request it, but must offer an option, usually in the form of a much larger down payment or deposit. It's not uncommon for sales staff to not be educated on this policy since it's rarely invoked. From the sounds of it, you protested, and did finally get offered the option, which you turned down. You lose the right to complain.
Quite simply put, there's no law that says they're required to offer you an "acceptable option".
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
And what are you americans so overly scared about the of SSN's for? I seriously don't see the problem. We have had born-to-grave SSN's in Denmark since 2. april 1968 and it is overly useful. For example for credit checks - in DK you can't buy even a phone subscription without providing your SSN-number. If I order a new Iphone on my providers website I have to state my SSN to verify the name and adress is valid against the SSN-database, before the phone is sent and subscription is made, tied for 6 months, to avoid fraud and make a binding contract.
Also all health records, my medical refunds from the state (yes, we have socialized medicine), my library card and my union membership as also retirement savings are all tied to the SSN (investment company sends the tax deductions for svaing up to the national tax office, via the use of the SSN). Oh wait, I forgot to mention - my paychecks and my tax is also tied to my SSN, seamlessly providing tax be drawn by employer (law requirement) before the salary is paid out. My digital signature used to access all public data systems from home is tied to my SSN as also then becomes my e-mail adress that is registered in the certificate. With that I can make binding contracts, access the tax server system, see my medical informations and refunds and check my library for items to bee returned. I can also register at the county's office website if I move, or change my GP doctor if I so wish. All thanks to the national SSN-system.
I recall back some months where theres was a talk on Slashdot about automatic bill payment that I found it very weird you in the US don't have - we have had it for a mere 20 years or more and it works fine by us too. Also a thing that doesn't work very easily without an SSN. Payments can't be made over a certain limit in DK without SSN-identification - to counter terrorism funding and tax fraud.
What are you so afraid of in terms of privacy concerns, in the US? After all you are the ones that have the FBI, the NSA and the CIA to protect you - but is it perhaps "them" you fear, in terms of these often SSN contra privacy concerns and debates?
Personally I don't care that we have an SSN-system in DK that is nation wide (and it counts for immigrants too). I have nothing to hide and use of the SSN and its storage is regulated by strict law and inspection. I find it more useful, than concerns about "privacy". If the state wants to track you or survey you, they will do it anyway - SSN or not... And as I can see in markdavis reply, you seem to have an awful lot of fear for "registration" in your nation. As markdavis writes he dislikes that some doctors asked his SSN - well here you can't ge treated without providing one. And here it is useful again. Cause the nation wide database can make a docctor see if he is going to give you some medication, that combined with the other you get from your regular GP will actually kill from side effects...
That concludes my input from "Big Brother" Denmark, the old Viking nation.
After all I don't consider my constitutional rights in DK violated by the SSN-system. For those interested it is called the CPR in Denmark, has a modulus 11 check in it, and males have uneven numbers and females even. It consist of your birth data day-month-year and then 4 digits, whereas the last is adjusted to your gender.
You can always live in the woods.
none
From their support email:
"Hello,
Thank you for contacting Sprint regarding the Palm Pre handset. We really appreciate your interest in our new products.
You can certainly purchase the Palm Pre handset without providing the SSN Number. However, to use this handset you are required to add this handset on any existing Sprint account of your family member or friend (if any).
In case, you wish to open a new account on your account, then you need to provide us the Social Security Number as per the FCC guidelines.
Thank you again for contacting Sprint and have a nice day."
So they claim it's an FCC guidelines requirement. True?
PM
I recently moved all my assets to a new bank and was issued an AMEX card right away, but then got a call from their issuers of VISA cards. I was missing from their credit bureau ratings lookup, and we rechecked my name and SSN in triplicate. Apparently my credit history expired! I'm very used to the idea of my financial history living in databases wherever, so it was a real shock to discover I'd been erased from one.
The last time I'm certain I had and used a credit card was in 1995. I'm sure I was credit checked a few times in 2000-2002 for college apartment renting, and possibly for a DOE clearance background check.
They said they would talk to the bank for my address and info and would have to send me extra paperwork since the credit bureau couldn't confirm anything. The VISA recently arrived with no extra paper trail.
I guess credit can be use it or lose it. Sprint probably would turn me down for their spiffy phone if I wanted one. Or they would want to issue me some craptastic CC of theirs.
I'm a lousy credit customer anyway, since I would keep everything permanently paid off.
Erm, I'm not quite sure what the issue with this is, really. Here in South Africa credit checks are comulsorey prior to the approval of a cellular contract. One is not required to provide a SSN, but one does provide banking details that are then checked, along with incomes and debts. There are also a variety of contracts, aimed from the very poor to the very rich. This is no big deal. In fact, it's actually for your own damn protection. Extending people more credit than they can reliably pay back is part of the current financial crisis. So don't gripe when someone wants to check you can actually handle X amount of credit before extending it to you rather than just giving you the keys to a yacht and breaking your knees later.
Welcome to the 2000s!
Seriously, all cell phone companies have been "requiring" this forever.
You chose not to use the option they gave you after you refused to give your SSN. If not giving your SSN is that important to you, pony up the extra cash as everyone else has to, at any cell phone company.
You guys are all missing the point. The ssn requirement is there because sprint will be running periodic credit checks on its customers. Sprint is probably subsidizing the phone and, internally, they must have customer activation goals to meet (like, the number of new customers who remain active after X months and so on) The credit checks are there because, as sprint subsidized the phone, you'll be actually repaying it back in installments through the phone usage fees. they could sell the device at full cost, but then wouldn't be able to force you to sign up for a 18 month contract. After you become a customer, the ssn is used for credit checks. If your credit score indicates trouble, then sprint will use that information to either try to get you to move to another plan or will send the collectors to get their money before you actually miss a payment. This is not about privacy, but about managing an instrument sale.
Unless you are an employer, or a bank or the Federal government, never EVER give out your SSN.
Your are just being stupid.
If you are renting, have your previous places you rent at provide a reference.
First time? Have your mom or Dad cosign.
The SSN should not be used for anything else.
Do so at your own peril.
-Hack
The Soviet Union of phone companies.
The store manager was probably wrong about a SSN being required to purchase the Pre, but may have been right about needing one to activate your account in-store.
Call sprint directly at 1-800-sprint1 (verify the number at sprint.com... you shouldn't trust some random joe on the internet...) and speak with someone in sales. Tell them you want to open an account over the phone so you can buy the Pre in-store. They should have lots of options at their disposal to get your account opened without an SSN, including deposits, account spending limits, etc. They can probably run your credit with just your name/address, if you're OK with that.
Good luck!
They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
I Am A Landlord. And I would never allow this. It's just too easy to play games with something someone printed off at home.
I have had applicants show up with credit report in hand before, and I have told them that I'd be happy to go over their report with them and see if they'll qualify before they hand over their SSN, but that I'll still have to run their credit using my service to verify the accuracy.
Some still apply, some don't. No skin off my back.
They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
I assume my identity (or at least my SSAN) has already been stolen. I was in the Army, after all, and they used SSAN's for years, replacing the old serial number. Big mistake IMHO, but that's neither here nor there.
But I'll be damned if I'll encourage anyone else to use that number. Screw 'em. I'd even fight the IRS about the issue if it weren't such a PITA dealing with the IRS about anything at all.
Because the leftists know that they are commie fascist bastards, and that the only way to forward their agenda is with the big lie. They have conviced everyone that it is the other side of the aisle that are fascists. This rule of those who fail at life will destroy our econonmy and our contry, but that is the point of it. Unfortunatly the Republicans have been complacent in this, and instead of acting respoably when they had the presidency and both houses, they decided to go wild on spending. Admittedly we were in the middle of a war, but the spending went well beyond reasonable spending for national power. I'd say that the only solution is for those whom Obama betrayed, those stupid enough to buy his "change change change" mantra, without looking at what he wanted to change, should vote the bum out come the next election. The only solution to our economic woes is to take the damned medicine, and then rebuild when we're done. Let the econonmy colapse as far as it will, and then move forward.
That which is done from love exists beyond good and evil
Even a landlord cannot legally ask people for their SSNs anymore and if he turns you down because you refuse to give it to him, you can report him.
Please cite the US law that stipulates a landlord can't require an SSN.
I won't be holding my breath.
They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
it is fundamentally a credit transaction.
- phone costs sprint more than you pay for it
- they subsidize the cost to you, meaning they have to make it up over an extended period of time
- if you go bankrupt in month 1 after getting the phone, they will lose a fair amount of money and admin expense. hence the the reason for the credit check to make sure you are someone that pays its bills and will not default.
Note: not all companies are not out to get you. if you don't like it, go buy something else which probably has the same checks anyway.
You: "OK, so I want the Palm-Pre, with this data contract."
Them" "OK, thats $BIGNUM per month, plus any other fees we think we can add on without you catching on. I'll need your SSN...."
You: "Why do you need my SSN?"
Them: "So we can run a credit check."
You: "I'll just be putting the bill through to my credit card, can I just give you that information?"
Them (reading from script): "I still need your SSN for the credit check."
You: "My credit card already has done the check. You will be getting the money from them. All you should need is to check my ID and make sure it's my card."
Them (still reading from script): "I still need your SSN for the credit check."
You: "So you are saying this service is so expensive that the average person cannot afford it, and so you have to make sure I can pay?"
Them: "Uhhhhhhh"
You: "If so, then maybe I don't need this after all. After all, if you cannot just go through my credit card...."
I don't know if that will work, but I do know I have my cell on one of my credit cards, so technically my cell carrier doesn't need to know my credit rating, just that my credit card company is on the level (granted, in this day and age, that may not be a given).
Simple rule: If you don't like the terms they offer, tell them so, and walk out. IF they see enough money walking out the door, they will change their tune. The only issue is the value of "enough money".
(but of course this means exercising self-control and accepting the consequences of one's choices - a virtual impossibility for most people now-a-days....)
www.eFax.com are spammers
You know, on the back of my social security card it says in big bold letters that my card and number are not to be used for identification purposes. I wonder if they've changed that bit in recent years? On a form 4473 (that is Application to Purchase a freaking firearm) I am allowed to skip the portion about the social security number and the federal background check will still go through and I am still allowed to walk home with my new shooting iron.
So I guess that ties it.
Forget the Palm Pre, take that money you would have given to Sprint and buy a gun instead.
Someone stole my identity after finding my wallet and ordered themselves a Sprint phone.
Fortunately for me, my SSN card was *not* in my wallet, so the SSN they gave Sprint was bogus. Sprint send the thief a phone anyway.
I know because I was waiting for his punk ass at the UPS store where it was to be delivered with "his" license presented by
his "nephew". Unfortunately the UPS security people let the thief know they were on to him so he never showed. Dammit.
I thought that your SSN is for U.S. Government use ONLY, and that no one else could REQIURE you to give it out. Employers are required to ask for your SSN to prove citizenship. Guess its a good thing I don't want a cell phone, or a palm pre! If I traveled much, I would get a cell phone, but it would only be used on trips, and would be a prepaid one. Basically for emergency ise only.
As for everyday things, if I am at work, or out shopping etc...people can wait until I get home to call me. In an emergency, they could call me at work. Since most of my shopping trips are less than 2 hours, its unlikely that someone would NEED to get ahold of me before I return home.
For most people, cell phones are a luxury, not the necessity that people seem to think that they are.
Is there a cellphone provider that doesn't require you to provide your SSN before signing up for a contract?
Exactly! Sprint isn't requiring an SSN to purchase a Palm Pre. If you already have service with them, you do not need to provide an SSN as you are simply upgrading your phone and extending your existing contract. However, switching from a different carrier is a different story. A new contract with Sprint will require your SSN (as it will with most carriers). There is no difference if switching to Sprint and you want a Palm Pre, a Blackberry, or even one of their give-away phones.
A new contract for a new customer requires the SSN, not getting the phone itself.
In the spirit of full disclosure, this is being posted by a former Blackberry user who is now a Palm Pre user.
Have you people never signed up for a cell phone before? Every cell phone contract requires a credit check. Credit checks are generally performed with the SSN. There is no conspiracy here. This isn't anything specific to the Pre or to Sprint.
Time makes more converts than reason
Years ago I just declined to offer my SSN. No big deal. The agent entered all zeros and I was on my way.
A few years later, I needed to re-open an account with Sprint, I think. 000-00-0000 was no longer accepted by their computer. At that time 111-11-1111 was still ok.
Eventually, I just starting giving semi random SSN's in these situations.
Now, even that doesn't work. The last time I accidentally transposed a few digits in my SSN, it was kicked back and I was asked "can you please verify your SSN, it's not matching". Not matching what, I am not sure.
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
I paid a refundable $500 per-line up-front fee to T-mobile to sign up for cell service before I had an SSN, and they accepted this just fine..
Maybe other providers have a similar option? They really don't care about your SSN - what they care about is your credit, as they are giving you a $X-hundred device for a minimal up-front payment, on the assumption that you will pay for it as part of your cellphone bill over the next 1-2 years.
So if you simply don't have a SSN, then you can't open an account with Sprint !?
-> Racism.
Stephan
http://stephan.sugarmotor.org
At least according to the IRS (http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/international/article/0,,id=96696,00.html/, an SSN is *NOT* required to file taxes.
Nonresident and resident aliens, their spouses, and dependents use an ITIN (Individual Taxpayer Identification Number) rather than an SSN. For many purposes (including credit checks) they're effectively the same thing, but it can be true (if disingenuous) for someone with an ITIN to say "I don't have an SSN".
This may seem a little too simple to some of you, but it's almost certainly possible.
Many services want your social security number before you sign-up, ostensibly to run a credit check on you. Most of these same services can be obtained by paying a deposit of 1-2 months service fees. This way they're protected and can always shut off your service without having lost anything if you stop paying your bill.
The thing is that that SSN credit method has taken precedence so heavily that most people ASSUME you can't do anything without the SSN number. Give it a try. If you're willing to go a person or two up the ladder I think you'd be surprised with the results you get.
You're talking about Capitalism, friend.
NO.
This is a government created and enforced monopoly (see FCC).
Try tossing a tower in your back yard to provide cell service to your neighborhood and see how quickly the FCC comes knocking.
If you can't enter the market without buying a license from the government then it's not really capitalism.
Um, that's nonsense. There's no reason a phone company can't or won't cap you and disconnect your data or voice service if you run up too much of a bill, even in one month. In fact, if they offered such a service, I'd demand it.
Kill my phone if in any billing cycle the bill is more than $400. This should be easy and reasonable for everyone since I am currently paying $50 for unlimited data, messaging, and 450 minutes and it should basically be impossible for me to rack up those charges.
In Canada, it's SIN (social insurance number), not SSN. Not almost nobody ever needs it, expect employers and the government. Everyone else has no reason to ask for it.
This is not entirely true sprint will allow you to open a account with no social but you have to put a substantial deposit down. I am a sprint dealer and we open accounts with no social all the time but most people do not want to put the money down. If that store for some reason will not allow you to open a account with no social then go to another store.
I work in bankruptcy law. You may not know this, but people get huge telecommunications debts discharged (often paying cents, if even, on the dollar) in bankruptcy - and these companies can act as pretty significant creditors because they don't heartily demand cash-up-front on their services (and if they do, they are often pretty lackadaisical in their early collection efforts because they want to maintain customer goodwill).
The point is that they take on large amounts of risk with consumers about whom they know little. This seems like a perfectly acceptable way to minimize their risk and lower costs for everyone -- as long as they use the information only for the initial credit check and dispose of it immediately thereafter.
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Hi, What hacks me off is the contempt the store jerks have for the security of your social security number. "We got a phone here for 334-55-9870. Come to the front desk to pickup your phone!" Everybody in the room can hear your number. If I were an illegal alien or identity thief, I would hang out in a t-mobile store and listen for the numbers. Or follow that person back to the car, run the plates and get a name and home address to match the number. BrianP
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will never see my SSN. F*CK Sprint. F*CK the Pre.
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Mediacom required either passing a credit check or giving them a credit/debit card number before they would give me a HD cable box. When they are giving you a piece of equipment they say costs $600-$1000 if I don't return, it is a LITTLE more understandable. For people who don't have a debit/credit card the credit check is a requirement. The only annoyance for me is the fact that if I actually apply for credit there may end up being a ton of credit checks on history because of all the companies that want to check it.
There are few scams that are basically money generating, its not about security for the customer.
* Larger cellular companies charge more per minute and plan on credit plan.
* Credit score companies make money selling this information, and they are not correct or regulated, and they differ between companies.
Basically the mantra, we have to charge higher interest rates on poor credit because they are poor risk, is false. If they could charge everyone the higher interest rates they would. Thus the reason for some states putting caps on loan fees, and the federal government capping on military (most are minimum wage earners) loans.
ATT can sell prepaid minutes at 35 cents a minute to poor credit holders at 10 cents to good credit. They would take every penny they can with the lie of "credit" and they are not the only company doing this, just one of the most visible.
Its basically a scam, but you have to think why they need your SSN. They need it for credit, so they can figure out how much to charge you. If any service has to figure out how much more they can charge you, its basically a scam. This is why the smaller local regional banks and credit unions would verify income to loan money. But the feds stepped in and told them they had to loan more money, and threatened with "lower bank credit scores" for not loaning money, and mark the banks rating down for now loaning enough money!
Credit scores, was used against the banks by the feds, and the banks for greed on mortgages. We all want a capital society, but false credit scores are so ingrained in our banking system that its hurting the poor, ripping off the middle class, and forcing large companies to turn away cash paying customers.
I wont even go into the whole unregulated federal reserve, which isn't federal but a privately owned bank, that was never audited...
Ever have a 5 year old ask you the why game? Try it yourself, why do you need to have use a SSN for a phone? Because we need to do a credit check. Why the credit check? So they can figure out what plan and interest rate to charge you. Why does a different interst rate, etc...
We don't tend to do that anymore, just accept and move on. Common sense is lacking, and if you question something, you must be a nut job. Why wouldnt you just accept and move on. Trouble maker or nut job.
How about we take Rudy Giuliani's advise and get a TAMPER-PROOF national ID card? Maybe it could even have fingerprints and rentinal scans and Dna on it.
Because I was reporting on my experience at one Sprint store. For me to say "Cellular Providers Require SSN for Contracts" would have required researching policies at a bunch of other companies.
I went to the Verizon small business site and tried to sign up for a corporate account for the wireless broadband service. Their online form wanted a person's name (no space for corporate name) and drivers license and SSN. Since C Corporations don't have either they lost a sale.
Canadian law explicitly forbade asking person's SSN. End of the story
I can't remember the exact statute, but it is illegal for any organization, even the government to require that you give them your SSN for anything. Tell them they are breaking the law and cite the statute and see what they say.
.
Why is this /. news? Especially with Palm Pre in it, it sorta of make the story sound like:
"SSN required to buy Palm Pre"... therefore, concludes Pre == Evil.
.
Of course a few later articles, we get, "Tracking thieves with 'find my iPhone" and that article conculdes that Apple == Good.
.
I call conspiracy among the marketing wonks and Apple fanboys on /. I expected you guys to be better than to be a sell out & manipulate the site...
Yes, that is correct. Since 2008 in the United States only the IRS, employers, banks, and very few specific institutions are still allowed to require you to submit your SSN. Even a landlord cannot legally ask people for their SSNs anymore and if he turns you down because you refuse to give it to him, you can report him. As an attorney it is a mystery to me that so many people are still not informed about the law and let companies get away with asking for SSNs. They should simply ask people for a reasonable deposit and not risk getting reported or sued.
Actually, the FTC issued a report in December 2008 advising Congress to restrict who can collect Social Security numbers and what steps must be taken, etc., etc. However, while some institutions are required to collect the information, it is not illegal for others to ask for it. You as an individual, in one of these cases, have the right to refuse to give them your SSN and they have the right to refuse doing business with you. There is no "reporting or suing" involved.
No shoes, no shirt, no SSN - no service, plain and simple.
A few years ago I read that you can contact the IRS and ask for a number to use for credit checks if you don't want to give out your SSN.
not being american, I don't know if its true or what the process is, just an article I read in passing about identity theft.
Okay guys, you can buy the pre without giving your ssn. You'll just have to pay a deposit on top of the price of the phone. I know because I used to work for sprint (and tmobile as well).
Not only should these scumbags be immediately shut down from their credit hijacking, they should be fined and jailed. I'll NEVER do business again with Sprint or any company that STEALS from its customers. But that is NOT ENOUGH. I think we really need to chop off their heads and put them on sticks for everyone to see. These pigs better cut this crap out before we exterminate them. It is no longer acceptable for shareholders to steal from citizens. Eat the rich.
The only thing Sprint goes out of their way to do is to steal as much money as possible, on top of the money that customers agree to pay when they enter an agreement. The customer is no longer right with Sprint - only their rules, which they make up along the way and obfuscate in fine print. Here's the bold print: SPRINT SUCKS
Got to give SSN to get a fishing license. It's a FEDERAL mandate.
AMEN BROTHER/SISTER. Now if only everyone would just "GET IT" so that a democracy can be useful under these circumstances.
So what happens if "He" becomes a "She"?
They call us sheeple, I wonder why?
FWIW I work in a Sprint retail store, and you actually can create an account without a SSN. It automatically requires a deposit, but is very easy to do. I have done so at least 3 times over the last year or so. Generally, this is reserved for those who don't have a SSN as of yet (i.e. recent immigrants), but I don't see why it couldn't be applied in your case as well.
JUNK THE EXPENSIVE PLANS, AND DON'T BUY EXPENSIVE TOYS WHICH WILL BE JUNK IN 5 MONTHS. I GOT AN UNLOCKED OLD POCKET PC PHONE FOR $5 (ABOUT 3 EURO), AND ADDED A 4GB MEMORY TO IT FOR ANOTHER $20. IT HAS BEEN RUNNING WELL FOR 5 YEARS. That, and I can store & read thousands of eBooks for FREE on it. It has my usual PDA Calendar, Contacts, gets eMail like a champ, and records sounds/conversations when needed.
I am Chinese, and my ID card has my photo on it. I think there are some potential privacy issues, since a reader can retrieve my information from it, if I take the card close to the reader. However, I do not feel it a real issue. In fact, I do not really understand why Americans hate the ID card ideas so much. :-)
Yes, this card is needed to show your identity, when you open an account in a mobile operator (prepaid accounts are currently exceptions, but it may not be the case in the future, since there are too many spam SMS messages). I have known of fake cards in the first generation, but have never known of a second-generation fake card (IC embedded).
Just my 2 cents.
They didn't ask if you were sponge-worthy..
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
The reason is very simple...you're spending close to 500 bucks when you get a plan, pre pay for a month, buy a touchstone, a case, add in the insurance, etc. So, it makes complete sense. I gladly provided mine to pick up my Pre.
Insert_Ending_Here
Umm, unless Sprint has cited the verse and statue concerning the Privacy Act of 1974, then it is a crime for them to ask first for the SSN, and also a crime for them to deny services for refusal of giving it.
I am no longer interested in taking over the world, I just want a modest corner of the Solar System