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Preventing Networked Gizmo Use During Exams?

bcrowell writes "I'm a college physics professor. My students all want to use calculators during exams, and some of them whose native language isn't English also want to use electronic dictionaries. I had a Korean student who was upset and dropped the course when I told her she couldn't use her iPod during an exam — she said she used it as a dictionary. It gets tough for me to distinguish networked devices (iPhone? iTouch?) from non-networked ones (calculator? electronic dictionary? iPod?). I give open-notes exams, so it's not memory that's an issue, it's networking. Currently our classrooms have poor wireless receptivity (no Wi-Fi, possible cell, depending on your carrier), but as of spring 2011 we will have Wi-Fi everywhere. What's the best way to handle this? I'd prefer not to make them all buy the same overpriced graphing calculator. I'm thinking of buying 30 el-cheapo four-function calculators out of my pocket, but I'm afraid that less-adaptable students will be unable to handle the switch from the calculator they know to an unfamiliar (but simpler) one."

870 comments

  1. Well not sure if this is the right approach but... by ls671 · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Well, I am not sure that this is the right approach but there seems to be plenty of jamming devices around that you could use during exams. Just put some signs near your exam room like "jamming devices at work" so everybody know that they have to go a little farther away in order to get connectivity and calibrate your jamming device appropriately so you do not jam the whole campus .. ;-)

    http://www.netline.co.il/page/cell_phone_jammer.aspx

    http://www.jammer-store.com/

    http://www.chinavasion.com/product_info.php/pName/wifi-bluetooth-wireless-video-jammer-portable-wireless-block/

    http://www.amazon.ca/Power-Portable-Signal-Jammer-Phone/dp/B003YFSKUU

    --
    Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
  2. Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by slifox · · Score: 5, Insightful

    First off -- I applaud your use of open-note exams. That is the ONLY real-world way to learn and demonstrate knowledge. There is almost never a situation in the professional world where one must solve a problem with absolutely no references (and it would be stupid to do so on a production system -- when solving a critical problem, why risk everything based on what you *think* is right, when you can verify against documentation; at least if something breaks, you can point to the incorrect docs...)

    Some people can simply memorize anything they look at, while others struggle at this. A proper exam should be designed to test one's ability to demonstrate processes: exams should give you all the information you need, but the questions should be designed such that only someone who has invested prior effort in practice and learning will be able to solve the questions in the allotted time.

    For less-concrete subjects such as the arts, I'm not so sure how this can be accomplished. However this is a trivial design decision for exams in maths, sciences, programming, and engineering.

    Furthermore, I think any physics or math exam that requires a complex calculator really has a wrong approach. Assuming everyone at this level has already demonstrated their ability to perform arithmetic several times over, the calculator should only be there to free them from making mistakes on the menial number crunching (addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, squares, squareroots, proper value of e,Pi, etc...). The exam should test for core concepts: ideas where you simply must understand the knowledge through prior practice and learning.

    Sadly, I think many professors fall back on rote-memorization exams just because they can't be bothered to design proper exams each semester. These types often teach straight from the textbook-provided lesson plans, and then wonder why students cheat...

    But honestly -- an exam is but one facet of demonstrating proficiency in a subject. Personally, I think projects & labs the best way: sure one can cheat, but it's easy to determine who has spent time polishing a proper unique lab report. In this respect, open-ended projects are the best, as the room for creativity limits the possibility for undetectable cheating, and lets the students show their enthusiasm for the subject. If you're really worried about cheating, a lab-practical may even be a legitimate tool: it's pretty damn hard to make stuff up as you go while you've got a one-person audience of the professor.

    Short answer: let them use basic scientific calculators, the textbook, their notes, and a dictionary; design your tests so that students have all the resources they need, but don't have enough time to learn-as-they-go during the exam.

    "Never memorize something that you can look up." --Albert Einstein

    1. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by jdong · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The design of the exam is not the problem -- if students have networking access to someone inside the exam room (or worse, outside the exam room), no matter how hard you make the exam, you are testing the brainpower of their lifelines, not them. This the 2010 version of "how do I prevent students from whispering to each other during a test", for which there is no straightforward solution short of "no electronics in the exam room".

    2. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I disagree that only someone who has put prior effort in practice and learning should be able to pass a test. If someone knows the correct answer without any struggle, they should pass easily, as they are more masterful at the task than someone who struggled!

      I do agree that tests should reflect real world professional tasks. If someone normally carries a laptop/cellphone, etc., then they will have them at work, too, so why not be able to use them in exams...unless you are not testing for knowledge, but merely testing to see if they paid strict attention only to what you taught.

    3. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cheat sheets and a writing device.

    4. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by swanzilla · · Score: 1

      +1 Hit the nail on the head

      -1 Far too many of my professors failed to think like you

    5. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by PvtVoid · · Score: 1, Informative

      First off -- I applaud your use of open-note exams. That is the ONLY real-world way to learn and demonstrate knowledge. There is almost never a situation in the professional world where one must solve a problem with absolutely no references

      Except, oh, the GRE, or the MCAT. Which is why 90% of the students in this guy's class are there.

    6. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      if students have networking access to someone inside the exam room (or worse, outside the exam room), no matter how hard you make the exam, you are testing the brainpower of their lifelines, not them.

      This.

      I didn't come here to troll, but I feel obliged to point out that the grandparent poster lost himself in a forest of his own self-righteousness regarding assessment design. The problem under discussion is that two students in the room working on the same test at the same time could have IM ability through wireless networking, and so one could do the work while passing the answers wirelessly to the other, who could simply copy what he sees on IM.

      Parent is almost right: there is no solution short of "no unapproved electronics." Students with poor English abilities who need dictionaries should bring their dictionaries to office hours for inspection; the invigilating TA's (if this is a large lecture) could be notified on the sign-in roster (I'm assuming a sign-in procedure for a large lecture) or be introduced personally to the student in question to be sure they recognize them. The policy would have to be on the syllabus and announced in class the first day. It's not a simple solution, but it's probably more fair to students not fluent in English than denying all electronics.

      Of course, the administration could also try requiring that all course instruction and assessment (outside classical/modern languages in Arts & Sciences) be conducted in English, and that all students entering pass an unaided (no lexicon!) English proficiency exam that's not a total joke. I mean, imagine a student going to France and expecting accommodations because he doesn't know French... Of course, administrations in the US will never enforce a convenient language policy, so you're going to have to make allowances for electronic devices like dictionaries if you ban electronics from testing sites.

    7. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by QuietLagoon · · Score: 3, Interesting
      First off -- I applaud your use of open-note exams. That is the ONLY real-world way to learn and demonstrate knowledge.

      .
      Absolutely. I attended a technical college that ran the exams on an Honor System. Most exams were open-book. Professors were not allowed in the classroom once the exam began. The exams were not about how much you could memorize, but how much you understood.

    8. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by fractoid · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Exactly. It's an open book exam, not an open-Internet open-chat open-Yahoo-Answers exam. And while, in the 'real world', you virtually never have to solve a problem from memory alone, you *do* have to solve a problem without help from peers.

      Just because there's no direct analogue of exam conditions in the real world doesn't mean they're not useful for testing performance. The most fundamental troubleshooting and performance evaluation tool we have is the isolation test. Take a thing apart, test each component, and that will give you insights as to how the thing performs as a whole. By all means give students access to the reference material they need to complete an exam, but they shouldn't be able to discuss it amongst themselves or search the internet for prior work on the topic, because the entire point of the exam is to measure the students' own unaided ability.

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    9. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A programmable calculator can be used to solve a problem numerically
      when one cannot figure out an analytical solution. A computer algebra system,
      e. g. REDUCE, would be much more useful but it was not available on
      portable devices at my time.

      Probably, the teacher should assume that a computer algebra system is
      available to the student and make the problems accordingly.
      There should be a few terminals in the class for those who left their
      laptops at home.

    10. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      If you don't put something on an exam, people won't study for it. Exams are motivational devices for people who aren't motivated to learn for themselves. People who are motivated to learn for themselves have no problem with the typical exam.

      As an aside, pretty near every subject requires the memorization of something, some more than others (learning a language on the memorize-heavy side, track-and-field on the memorize-light side).

      --
      Qxe4
    11. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by apoc.famine · · Score: 4, Informative

      Kudos for a well written, thoughtful post. I was a HS teacher for 5 years, and I ran my classes (as much as I was allowed to - NCLB pressures forced my district to start pressuring teachers to test in the state test format) in much the same way. You get a much better understanding of a student's grasp of the material if they have to apply it instead of just regurgitate it.

      However, as awesome as your post was, it didn't address the problem at all.

      Having been in the same situation before, (Can I use my iPhone - it has a calculator on it, and you said a calculator was ok...) my suggestion would be to hit the dollar store and get a pile of cheap-ass scientific calculators. Then, do an exercise in class a few times before the first exam that requires their use. That way, you can outlaw all the networked devices, but people aren't using a foreign device for the first time under the pressure of a test. No, it won't be as familiar as their everyday tools. But at $1 each, you can even encourage people to take them home and practice on them if concerned. The ones I bought for my classes lasted a few years easily, but again, for the price, I wasn't too worried about them.

      You don't need a $80 graphing calculator for most things. Unless you've built your curriculum around the use of one, you should be able to test adequately with a $1 calculator as the main computational tool.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    12. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by apoc.famine · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The GRE and MCAT aren't in the professional world. While your point is well taken, it's a bit misdirected as those are just gatekeepers to parts of the professional world. Their widespread use doesn't make them good or useful gatekeepers either. They're a way for lazy people to do a half-assed job to cheaply and poorly assess a lot of people in the least amount of time. Nothing more.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    13. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by duffbeer703 · · Score: 1

      Furthermore, I think any physics or math exam that requires a complex calculator really has a wrong approach. Assuming everyone at this level has already demonstrated their ability to perform arithmetic several times over, the calculator should only be there to free them from making mistakes on the menial number crunching (addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, squares, squareroots, proper value of e,Pi, etc...). The exam should test for core concepts: ideas where you simply must understand the knowledge through prior practice and learning.

      One problem: In your hypothetical world, where hypothetical students just use their notes and other aids, the students probably don't have a clue, since they can't do basic math because some idiot math teacher back in 4th grade decided that understanding the process of using a multiplication table was enough. And using notes as a reference isn't fair either, since some dumbass english teacher decided that actually having the ability to write legibly was ho-hum in the era of the internet.

      --
      Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
    14. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by VTI9600 · · Score: 1

      let them use basic scientific calculators, the textbook, their notes, and a dictionary;

      To take that one step further, publish in the syllabus a list of the exact models of electronic devices and titles of reference texts that they can use during the exam. There's no need for this to be open-ended. In the real world you sometimes have to use equipment and reference materials you don't have at home. I recall once having to buy a TI-85 for a math class even though I already owned a TI-82 which did all the same stuff. It sucked but I got over it and these students will too.

    15. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Nursie · · Score: 1

      I disagree.

      Students ought to have the basics, and maybe a lot of the advanced stuff, in their minds available for quick recall. It's what differentiates the good ones from the merely mediocre.

    16. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by TheMeuge · · Score: 1

      The USMLE, and the bar exams aren't open-book either.

    17. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by VTI9600 · · Score: 3, Funny

      It's an open book exam, not an open-Internet open-chat open-Yahoo-Answers exam.

      Wow...anyone using Yahoo Answers on a physics exam deserves some kind of academic Darwin award. On second thought, let the girl use her iPod as long as that's the only site she accesses. :-p

    18. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Bastardchyld · · Score: 1

      I have a really hard time feeling sympathy for students who are unable to adapt to simple calculators. I think providing simple calculators is a fair compromise, though I do think it is sad that the professor's only real option is to self-fund this endeavor.

      --
      $diff terrorists hippies
      $
      $rm -rf *terrorists *hippies
    19. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by mr100percent · · Score: 1

      While I understand your point and concede that it is valid for a lot of science fields, here at the medical school it would probably look bad if your doctor kept pulling out his PDA to look up what you're saying...

    20. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by bagboy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Look, I don't mean to be nit-picky, but I really wouldn't want a surgeon looking up a procedure while I'm open on his table. Or a dentist looking up a root-canal procedure while my jaw is open wide. Some education HAS to be ingrained to a certain point.

    21. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Antisyzygy · · Score: 5, Informative

      The GRE was the biggest joke of a test I have ever taken. It did nothing to test my capabilities. It only tested whether or not I actually bothered to purchase the prep materials from the private company that administers it.

      --
      That brings me to an interesting point, / . is just "the ramblings of socially-inept, technology-literate news-mongers".
    22. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sadly, I think many professors fall back on rote-memorization exams just because they can't be bothered to design proper exams each semester.

      There are definitely cases where professors have too high a workload to be able to design perfect exams (and maybe even rare cases where a professor is spending the day posting on Slahsdot rather than designing perfect exams).

      But the question of testing knowledge versus ability to apply knowledge is complicated.

      For example, last year I taught introductory biology at a community college. Now, if you're going to understand things like DNA and protein, you've got to understand a bit of chemistry. For example, you should be able to look at a chemical structure of an amino acid and have it make some kind of basic sense to you - i.e. that C,N,O, and H have 4,3,2,1 bonds, respectively.

      But what do you test?

      Some students that take introductory community college biology already have 4-year degrees in the biological sciences (weird but true). For other students, this may be their first (and only) college level science class ever.

      So if you put together a study guide that asks the students to memorise the preferred number of bonds for C, N, O, and H then that's something simple that is accessible to even the students who've never taken another science class.

      So, I guess what I'm saying is that applying knowledge is great but that it can require a lot of subtle background knowledge. In some cases, it may be appropriate to also test the subtle background knowledge - but in other cases, it may be valuable to provide a way forward for students who are motivated and hard working but who just don't happen to come from a background where they've accumulated the all subtle background knowledge.

      And it doesn't have to be black and white. A test can have some rote-memorization for the hard working students without the background knowledge and some figure-it-out problems for the students with the strong background who don't want to do the work of rote-momorization.

    23. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by blackest_k · · Score: 3, Informative

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_the_United_States#States_and_territories_that_are_officially_bi-_or_trilingual

      There is no official language of the United States. At the State level some states do, many do not, and some are officially bi or trilingual.

      Refusal to accommodate students with language issues may be illegal in some states.
      Some students may be disabled perhaps requiring Braille or some other input devices. The parent would fail steven hawking in a physics exam.

      we live in a multicultural society and you are restricting your own development as a rounded individual if you ignore this. At the least learn a second language preferably one which will be useful to you. Not only will it take you places your brain will be exercised developed and expanded.

    24. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by The+Wild+Norseman · · Score: 1

      Wow...anyone using Yahoo Answers on a physics exam deserves some kind of academic Darwin award.

      What's the Yahoo Answers new tagline... "for twelve year olds, by twelve year olds"?

      --
      "A government is a body of people usually -- notably -- ungoverned." -Shepherd Book
    25. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "There is almost never a situation in the professional world where one must solve a problem with absolutely no references"

      I guess you're forgetting much of what professionals do in the field, or folks like EMTs and hospital emergency staff. Far from 'almost never', it's actually 'monotonously frequent'. You might want to turn your hyperbole down a little bit.

    26. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by aitikin · · Score: 1

      Of course, administrations in the US will never enforce a convenient language policy, so you're going to have to make allowances for electronic devices like dictionaries if you ban electronics from testing sites.

      The problem with that is that English is not the official language of the US. It is the de facto national language, but it is not the official language. I'm not about to get into arguments over whether it should be, I'm not even going to state my position. I'm merely going to say that this alone is why you probably won't find any federally funded educational institutions that have such a policy.

      --
      "Don't meddle in the affairs of a patent dragon, for thou art tasty and good with ketchup." ~ohcrapitssteve
    27. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      ...And while, in the 'real world', you virtually never have to solve a problem from memory alone, you *do* have to solve a problem without help from peers...

      I call BS. In the real world, you should be calling on peers for any problem worth solving, if needed. "No man is an island" and all that. Far too many people have the attitude that they have to solve every problem that comes their way, and they all too often end up with a half-assed solution that sort of works. Learn to communicate people! That's what civilization is all about after all.

    28. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by evolvearth · · Score: 1

      Yes, it's clear that special cases require special treatment.

    29. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Brooklynoid · · Score: 1

      Not so much. I certainly remember more than one of my doctors pulling his copy of the Physician's Desk Reference off the shelf more than one when writing a prescription for me. As a poster upstream pointed out, in the real world it's much better to check your reference material and know you're right than to make your best guess.

    30. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by ldobehardcore · · Score: 3, Insightful

      well of course, you'd want health professionals to know their stuff, but I don't think it's necessary for, say, an insurance agent needs to know exactly (read word-for-word) the details of coverage in every coverage agreement they deal with, as long as they have immediate access to the information. I don't expect a structural engineer to know by heart every last measurement for a building they built

      --
      Hectice, baby, Mercator says hello to you
    31. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by stuermml · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, that's just the point. A doctor has to apply the learnt procedure in a new unique situation. If he can recite the book word-for-word it's not much use.

    32. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      Nor are they "real-world way(s) to learn and demonstrate knowledge" as the OP stated. As I pointed out in regards to the other tests, these are also gatekeepers to some small percent of real-world jobs.

      To be frank, I think these two tests are the reason we have all the rest of the standardized tests in the world. If Harvard wants to produce Doctors and Lawyers, they need to make sure their students can pass these exams. Thus, it's wise to recruit students who pass standardized tests well. Thus you want rigid GRE exams. This trickles down to SAT exams, etc.

      I've seen a fair bit of research that shows that SAT/ACT exams don't do anything for colleges. Senior year of high school is an order of magnitude better predictor of student success in college than SAT/ACT scores. Yet plenty of colleges still use them.

      If we got rid of our med and law boards, I wonder how long it would be before schools stopped with the rest of these worthless tests?

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    33. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The ability to do well on a 'memorization' exam reflects one of two things:

      1. You're a memorization genius, who absorbs information incredibly quick and with little effort. These people are very rare.

      2. You're organized, you manage your time effectively, you pay attention in class, you know how to study - you are an effective student.

      Or put even more simply, people who do well in school are good at the extremely employable process of "figure out what your boss (teacher) wants and give it to them."

      I'm pretty tired of seeing all the special snowflakes on slashdot decrying the inadequacies of our educational system. Yes, some people simply don't respond to standard higher education, and while I feel for those people, that does not mean that the system is flawed. The political adage, "you can't please all the people all the time," definitely applies to learning and school as well. Most of the methods you are in favor of are either unreasonable for most subjects, or are very difficult to grade in a equitable fashion, or both.

    34. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Cwix · · Score: 3, Interesting

      For any student who needs something that is not allowed for other students, they have to go talk to their schools Americans with disabilities rep. Otherwise they are giving that student an unfair advantage.

      How do you know the one girl doesn't speak good enough English for your test? Perhaps she speaks/reads great English, but only tells you she doesnt to get access to a device that the other students arnt allowed to.

      Note: This assumes the case in question is in the US.

      --
      You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
    35. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Mike+Kristopeit · · Score: 1
      because you'd rather have your insurance agent get something wrong? would you rather your bill was wrong or your payment was wrong?

      you'd rather the insurance company had to pay people to spend more time than is sufficient to get a job done, and then pay more people to fix the problems with the original employee's work? who do you think pays for those people? you want to pay higher premiums just so professionals don't have to think for themselves?

    36. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Cwix · · Score: 1

      Could you carry enough books with you to pass the bar exam?

      --
      You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
    37. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yahoo Question: If I have a crumpled up piece of paper in one hand, and a baseball in another, both hands are 1m from the ground and I release both objects at the same time, which one hits the ground first?

      Best Yahoo Answer: Can't answer this question without knowing if there is writing on the paper.

      Answer: If the crumbled up paper is in the left hand, it hits first.

      Answer: The ball, it's heavier, duh.

      Answer: Fucking nerd.

      Answer: Nerd's don't fuck, idiot.

      Answer: Oh yeah? I'm pregnant.

    38. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by pete-classic · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You seem to be confusing education with training. Doctors get their training during residency.

      -Peter

    39. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is that in my major, we tend to need to do a lot of complex math as part of the process. Now, the professor could give us ONE problem that takes 2 hours to churn through all the values by hand, or they can give us 20 problems that are solved in about a minute with a calculator.

      In the real world, you will be expected to be able to use a very wide variety of tools. Sometimes you do need to go old school and use the 4 function math to find your solution. But god help the guy who spends a week doing what a calculator would do in an hour. \

      Tests need to support the full dynamic range of the material at hand. Any professor that tries to substitute good process with meaningless calculations needs to be removed.

    40. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by bcrowell · · Score: 1

      Absolutely. I attended a technical college that ran the exams on an Honor System. Most exams were open-book. Professors were not allowed in the classroom once the exam began.

      Hi -- I'm the OP. I would love it if my school was on the honor system. I tried to get that to happen when I was on a faculty committee working on that kind of thing, but it went nowhere. Usually at schools that have an honor system, there are very severe penalties if you do get caught cheating, such as suspension or expulsion. AFAICT our administration has been too afraid of lawsuits to go down that road. We've been told that when a student cheats, recent legal decisions say that the most we can do is to give a zero on that assignment (exam, problem set, ...). Since we have a 16th-week drop deadline, that effectively means that cheating carries almost no risk. If you don't get caught, you benefit from cheating. If you do get caught, you drop with a W (as opposed to the F you were presumably expecting, which made you desperate enough to cheat).

    41. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Hognoxious · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There's a difference between not reinventing the wheel and asking people to do your job for you.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    42. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by J+Story · · Score: 1

      Writing exams without using the Internet is like fighting the last war. Open the taps and make exams that test someone's capacity to solve these problems in real life in a real working environment.

    43. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Iron+Condor · · Score: 5, Insightful

      so you're going to have to make allowances for electronic devices like dictionaries if you ban electronics from testing sites.

      I heard they have a totally newfangled dictionary now, that works entirely without electronics. It consists of lots of sheets of paper, with the words printed on it. Like as if you made a big printout of a site-rip of m-w.com.

      --
      We're all born with nothing.
      If you die in debt, you're ahead.
    44. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by melikamp · · Score: 3, Insightful

      First off -- I applaud your use of open-note exams. That is the ONLY real-world way to learn and demonstrate knowledge.

      I partially disagree. Memorization has its place in learning. For example, if one is taking a proper mathematical analysis class but they do not know (by heart!) the formal definition of the limit by midterm, then one is left to wonder how much actual analysis they can do. Ditto for Newton's laws of motion, for example, in the corresponding physics class. In every discipline there are these basic things one needs to understand thoroughly—without having to look them up—to even begin to appreciate the rest of the results. The parent may say: is it not enough to test whether a student solve problems? I do not think it is quite enough. Parent's student may now be able to solve a calculus problem when he is given a one and told it is a calculus problem. My student, who actually remembers the basics of analysis, will be able to pose calculus problems in her field of interest and in her very life: to see things in nature or in the society that can be modeled using limits and derivatives. IMHO, this is better learning. I do agree mostly, though: at least in mathematics, rote memorization should be reserved for just a few central concepts.

      As for the root question, I tend to side with people who say: ban all devices but a simple calculator, and design the test in a way that would make even that device unnecessary (don't bother buying them: these things are, like, $1). Whether it's a written test for 100 people or a tête-à-tête in an office, we absolutely have to prevent all communication in order for the examination to have any meaning. Jamming would accomplish that, but it is unsafe and dickish. In the future, when people have wireless adapters in their heads, every test taker will have to be surrounded by a Faraday cage, but for now whitelisting devices is the way to go. For special needs like language translation, have single-purpose devices pre-approved. Do they even make them anymore, now that there are much more capable robots on the internet? Who cares, it's not your problem. No matter what, flatly ban everything that has even a hint of a rumor of the networking capacity.

    45. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by jirka · · Score: 1

      "real-world" ...

      I just have to quote Inigo Montoya:

      You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

      People outside of academia, love to use that word to say that something done in a university setting was bad (usually because they were bad at it)

    46. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Exactly. For every degree, there is a EXPECTED amount of stuff that you SHOULD have with your degree IN MEMORY. If that's not the case, then why not just give every single high school grad a bunch of DVDs with a few hundred textbooks, and then call them "Professional *"?

    47. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Maximus633 · · Score: 1

      Professor: While this is all off subject I would also like to applaud you for allowing the use of open notes. I can tell you as a student myself those far more benefit me then the use of remembering every possible sentence in my book or lectures given. It is sad that schools can't pursue more effort in cheat prevention and that of consequences if you do. I feel a student caught cheating should get the F for the class if they attempt to cheat and get caught doing so.

      Good luck Professor and while many may not think to say this Thank you for doing your job. If it was not for our Teachers and Professors I would be no where close in the knowledge I have obtained over the years. Thank you.

    48. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by vertinox · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There is almost never a situation in the professional world where one must solve a problem with absolutely no references

      This reminds me of a job interview for a field support job that went like this (paraphrasing because its been a while):

      So the boss asks me a technical question which I honestly don't know the answer.

      Me: "I don't know, but I'm sure I can Google an answer fairly quick."
      Boss: "You mean you don't have this memorized? What if the internet is down?"
      Me: "I'd use my cell phone to google the answer."
      Boss: "What if you have no cell phone signal?"
      Me: "I'd put the caller on hold and use the land line to call someone who has either internet or a cell phone signal and ask them to Google it."
      Boss: "What if the land lines are out?"
      Me: "Then the question you asked me earlier is no longer relevant because obviously no one would be calling me to get report the problem in the first place if the phone lines are out? And if the internet, cell phone, and land lines are out, it sounds we might have bigger problems."

      Surprisingly enough I actually got that job, I just sort of went against the interviewees idea that candidates have to memorize every small technical detail because in real world situations it is always possible to look it up.

      And if not... Well then you have other issues going on that need priority.

      --
      "I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
      -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
    49. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by vertinox · · Score: 1

      Look, I don't mean to be nit-picky, but I really wouldn't want a surgeon looking up a procedure while I'm open on his table. Or a dentist looking up a root-canal procedure while my jaw is open wide. Some education HAS to be ingrained to a certain point.

      Actually, surgery requires a lot of practice rather than memorization because it requires a good deal of dexterity and hand coordination.

      Much like a fighter pilot... Sure, it helps to memorize the procedure, but you really want the guy whose practice it on a few times but doesn't have it memorized versus the person who has it memorized but never did it before.

      --
      "I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
      -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
    50. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by QuietLagoon · · Score: 1

      If that is what you think this is about, you do not understand the concept.

    51. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The lack of an official government-mandated language does not mean that a particular organization can't require a particular language(s), only that the exact selection isn't forced on them. My local public state-and-federal-funded college did everything in English. My local DMV also had Spanish. I think either the federal income tax or census forms were available in a dozen or so languages.

      And in practice, it's impossible to expect all professors to be able to accommodate all native tongues of their students on the tests. Two might be at least plausible, but we accept students (and immigrants in general) from everywhere. Going by just the college students I've met, that'd be English plus 8 other languages.

    52. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by MoonBuggy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I see your point, but there's a wide gap between accommodating disabilities and accommodating those who have chosen to come to an institution where classes are taught and examined in English.

      I'm very much aware and in favour of the fact that our society is multicultural, but I also think the person making the choice (be that moving to a particular country, attending a particular educational institution, whatever) should be the one to make the effort. It's a standard that I consider fair, and one I am more than willing to apply to myself.

    53. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I really wouldn't want a surgeon looking up a procedure while I'm open on his table.

      Why not?

      When following a procedure, he's much less likely to forget something.

    54. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Latin was never the official language of the United States, but it was required for entrance to Harvard once upon a time, even though courses were taught in English, and to most European universities until the twentieth century, even after instruction was being given in the other languages. It's less a matter of convenience than of practical necessity for teaching a large population that they all be able to understand the lessons in one language.

      we live in a multicultural society and you are restricting your own development as a rounded individual if you ignore this. At the least learn a second language preferably one which will be useful to you. Not only will it take you places your brain will be exercised developed and expanded.

      Yes. The students should learn a second language, namely English, to attend lectures at a college where the majority speaks English. If attending an English-speaking university, students should understand English well enough to sit for an examination without any aids. As you say, they will become more rounded students for it.

      Similarly, an English-speaking student attending a French university or a Chinese university shouldn't expect to be able to pull out a lexicon, much less an iPhone, in the middle of a test. Part of the preparation for an examination should include understanding the terminology involved—in the language of the lecture.

      As for the handicapped, the blind, and so forth, who may need electronic input devices or braille in order to communicate, these groups fall cleanly into the provisions the grandparent laid out: make special provisions for a few, but ban electronic devices for everyone who doesn't absolutely need them.

    55. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by QuietLagoon · · Score: 1
      I would love it if my school was on the honor system.

      .
      It is a very different academic world in which to live.

      "The measure of a man's real character is what he would do if he knew he would never be found out." Thomas Babington Macaulay

    56. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by The_Laughing_God · · Score: 1

      Why must a dictionary be electronic? A paper dictionary eliminate the wireless issue.

      Why is an unfamiliar calculator such an issue? Are tests really written in a way that requires maximal calculator throughput? If so, doesn't that penalize students who don't work hard at maximizing their calculator speed during their less-strictly time-constrained homework problems? If you tell them they can only use a calculator (which you provide, and make available for prior inspection) with add/sub, mult/div, roots/powers, logs/exps and standard trig/inv-trig functions and algebraic entry (i.e. not RPG or stack based) then they have all the info they need.

      I encourage accommodations, but inevitably, at some point, one is merely drawing a line between the failed and the all-but-failed (even if "failure" is failure to reach the threshold for an A). No reasonable-length college exam can discriminating to 1% accuracy consistently. Period. Our best studied, and slowly evolved multiple choice exams with sample sizes in the millions don't pretend to 1% accuracy/precision (and measurably fail to achieve it)

      Will anyone will ever accept the "unfamiliar calculator" defense for a bridge failure? If a bridge, probe or key presentation failed due to picayune calculation/computer issues, it's always been unacceptable, not excusable

      You want an A or a Pass? Show that you deserve one, not that under other circumstances you may have squeaked by

    57. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by IICV · · Score: 1

      At some point though, you really have to just give up. It is the instructor's primary duty to instruct as best they can, and it is the student's duty to learn. If the students don't want to learn, you shouldn't compromise your ability to be the best instructor you can in order to compel them to do their duty.

    58. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by arth1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You seem to be confusing training with ability to solve problems.

      Training can make a doctor better at handling the familiar, but won't help when the doctor is faced with the unfamiliar. In some cases training can even be harmful -- if you have extensive training in recognizing a particular condition, you are biased towards it, and are likely to score more false positives for the diagnosis than you otherwise would. The typical scenario is the young idealistic doctor who takes a course in [moderately rare disease], and then sees that disease behind every bush for the next few months.

      An exam should measure how a student does when faced with problems they can neither memorize nor train for, but where they have to show enough understanding of what's been taught that they can apply their knowledge without having been shown exactly how.

    59. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Entropius · · Score: 1

      Students with poor English abilities who need dictionaries can bring a dictionary to class, as long as it is made out of paper. What's wrong with that?

      I know how to use computers to do computations. But I can also use a book of log tables to multiply if I need to.

    60. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by GospelHead821 · · Score: 1

      In my opinion, there are a couple of valid objections to this idea:
      1) I think that it cheapens education if it is reduced just to being job training, just as it cheapens citizenship if people are reduced just to being laborers. As citizenship involves more than just contributing to the economy, but also contributing to and participating in a shared culture, education should involve more than just learning skills but in contributing to the formation of new ideas.
      2) On a related note, understanding problems and being able to SOLVE them is a very different skill than being able to provide an answer to a question. With a couple of hours of review, I could regurgitate the Schroedinger Wave Equation and apply it to a simple system. I never was quite able to understand the S.W.E., though. I can't develop new ideas about particle statistics by thinking deeply about the S.W.E. That is to say, I can answer questions using it but I can't verbalize or solve new problems. If we want to develop in students the ability to solve problems then we can't let them use the internet to find answers to test questions. The purpose of the exam isn't to determine whether the student can identify answers by any practical means; it is to determine whether the student can solve the problem using their own cognitive abilities.

      --
      Virtue finds and chooses the mean.
      Aristotle, Ethica Nichomachea
    61. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > ...The exams were not about how much you could memorize, but how much you understood.

      That's the ideal situation, but there are some classes that you have to memorize things, in addition to being able to understand them. I taught Anatomy and Physiology to a group of mostly nursing students during the summer. Most of them didn't even do the memorizing part, let alone the understanding part. Plan on not getting sick in the future, the nurses entering the education pool at the present time are pretty pathetic.

    62. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      You know what's really not fair? Letting the students who don't know shit pass without knowing how to write or do arithmetic without electronic aids. It's not fair to the other students who have a fucking clue, and it's not fair to the students who apparently have coasted along doing the bare minimum that the past teachers thought was acceptable. Both groups of students deserve better. Most colleges have remedial courses for those who were 'severely disadvantaged' by 'the system' or whatever excuse they're using for not being up to snuff.

    63. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Spoken like an engineer.

      Unfortunately, not all fields are engineering problems. Good luck to you if you are ever in surgery and the surgeon has to go check a few books while you are laying there with your gut cut open.

    64. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For all the examples you give there are very rigorous practical undertakings.

      The other side of the coin, how many chip designers work without reference material?

    65. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In case someone comes in and says MCATs and the like are great and grand measures, I'll use myself as an example. Biology "major," honored that (grades in "major", research), also honored in the college I was in (overall grades). Went to a top 15 nationally ranked US News (and others) school (not that that matters, just pointing out it wasn't a shitty program). 3 more courses and I would have entertained a masters. Prep'd for the MCAT and all that. Anyways:

      Took the "harder" of 3 of each of the physics and calculus courses at my college and rocked them. Physics was the integral calculus version, probably a little more than hard core AP physics in high school but not by much. Scored an 8 on the physics part of the MCAT. (I also took physics the year I took the MCAT so it was still fresh.)

      I can't communicate ideas well when I write. I scored in the 97% percentile. By the data shown on my test results, nationally (yes, nationally) on that test day and my version of the question/test (different essy questions given out on the same day), I was 1 of 2 people that scored that high, and 1 person scored higher than me nationally. This part of the test has a human grading it; I figured I was fortunate that my short essay must have been read just after the grader read a string of essays from the bottom 3%, and my test score was given just as food poisoning erupted from the person's bowels as he headed off to the bathroom. No way in hell that sloppy essay deserved that, much less how I wrote it too.

      MCAT biology score was an 11. Which is pretty poor considering my major.

      Reading comprehension was an 8. I guess reading tomes and tomes of research, scientific textbooks, lecture notes, and good old literature (college is known for its liberal arts), I'm just average.

      Anyways, you may be thinking the MCAT at least screens out the incompetent ones. When I got to med school, I was my typical anti-social self in the corner half gone from not sleeping (remember, medical school). I remember a lecture where part of the equation, knowing the height and length, required the distance between 2 points of a person's neck (patient is on the chair at an incline). The professor was trying to explain it, but was frustrated at being constantly interrupted (if you've been to med school, there's always a handful of students that ask the dumbest ass questions if they don't understand the slightest thing). One of those students blurted out, "Wait, how do you find the length? I don't understand." That student turns to about 15 of their friends, who also look perplexed.

      The professor had just pretty much zoned out and given up and was moving on to the next slide since the q&a back and forth sucks up time he didn't have. Usually a bunch of people speak up or sort of hound the person into shutting up by giving them the answer and then sort of hounding them into shushing up. Out of 150 some students in the lecture, this time NO ONE spoke up. I was stunned. I looked around the room. Lots of confused faces, speckled with the typical oblivious to the questions, lecture, world, universe ones.

      Apparently, when you get to medical school, the Pythagoream Theorem is ejected from the minds of students. The neck length is the hypotenuse.

      I leaned over to a friend in the row up and over who looked asleep who had been previously studying the ceiling tiles, and he cracks an eye, looks up at me, and says, "Don't say a word. Remember this moment. Our current colleagues and future professionals can't id a right triangle," then shuts his eye and goes back to nodding off.

      There were probably many others in the same boat as me in that room, who knew the answer, but I figured maybe I'd better keep my mouth shut, or get hounded by the idiots.

    66. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is why students in the surgical field never take part in major surgeries, and only do minor work under the direct supervision of a veteran surgeon on minor surgeries. Your example is just what you don't mean to be, nit picky.

    67. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by N1AK · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I really wouldn't want a surgeon looking up a procedure while I'm open on his table.

      It'd be nice to know he knew the procedure. However, if something unusual came up I'd prefer to have the guy who 'phones a friend' than the one who decides to wing it. If you're having a 2+ hour piece of surgery is a 5 min delay while the surgeon checks to ensure something is right really so bad?

    68. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by J+Story · · Score: 1

      Interesting comments, but I think they miss the mark. Education *is* job training; if nothing else it teaches you for a job at Starbuck's. As for solving problems, that is what exams are for. If it happens that a particular exam question can be solved by going to wolframalpha.com, then what is the problem? If, on the other hand, a particular exam question exists elsewhere on the Net with an answer, then either the question was bad or, once again, a modern tool was used to solve a problem. A more difficult question that was not addressed is that of collaborating with others. Access to the Net implies access to Uncle Bob, who aced the course. Here again, though, I think that universities are fighting a losing battle. The fact is that the world of today is growing increasingly interlinked. Centres of learning that fail to embrace the reality will be left in the dust.

    69. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by fractoid · · Score: 1

      Writing exams without using the Internet is like fighting the last war. Open the taps and make exams that test someone's capacity to solve these problems in real life in a real working environment.

      Think of the exam as being a simulation of "solve this idea that you CAN'T find the solution to online". It's far far easier to stop the students looking the solution up online than it is to come up with a unique problem of the appropriate difficulty level every time you want to give an exam.

      Of course, this is only relevant to work if you're going to be working in a field where you will routinely come up against unsolved problems. That would apply to most science and tech fields, but not, for instance, to Japanese language studies (which by their nature require a huge amount of memorization, added to which the real-time constraints of conversing in a spoken language rule out 'just look it up online' as an answer).

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    70. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by terrortrain · · Score: 1

      If its a complicated procedure, and the doc is questioning himself; Please, for the love of god, look it up in the cheat sheet he hopefully made before the surgery.

    71. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Jeeeb · · Score: 1

      Exams can be part of the learning process to!

      There was an interesting article the other day on study methods in the NYT. (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/07/health/views/07mind.html?_r=1&ref=science&pagewanted=print)

      Basically it talks about study methods backed up by psychological studies. Amongst that one of the more interesting points is that because of the difficulty of recalling knowledge in them, exams are a powerful tool for increasing the ability of students to recall knowledge.

      Now I understand that what you're saying is that it's not necessary to memorise masses of equations because they can be looked up. However, it would seem necessary for students to have a working in memory knowledge of the principles of a field of knowledge, even if they can't remember the exact equations. Exams can be a powerful tool for helping students build that knowledge.

      Btw. I'm surprised the original posters university doesn't have a blanket policy on dictionaries .etc. A blanket policy would prevent exactly the kind of situation as what arose with the Korean girl.

      Oh and on a side note most electronic dictionaries for a long time have allowed note taking in them and newer more expensive ones are basically complete computers with wifi connectivity. So anybody setting an exam should keep that in mind.

      Although, personally, and having experienced studying overseas in normal classes (as opposed to language classes) in an environment where I wasn't a native speaker of the language, I think allowing any dictionaries in exams is a bit silly. Realistically if a student has learnt the materials properly they should be able to write about it. If they haven't mastered the jargon related to their field of study, then I think that raises serious questions about their knowledge of the field.

    72. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by commodoresloat · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yeah there's really no other way to look up words than a networkable computer. It's just too bad nobody's invented a dictionary that works with simple nonelectronic parts like wood pulp and pigments. This is an open-book exam here, I guess an easy solution to this guy's problem is to have a dictionary that was built into, you know, a book.

    73. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Jedi+Alec · · Score: 1

      It is the instructor's primary duty to instruct as best they can, and it is the student's duty to learn.

      In a perfect world, perhaps. In the real one it's the instructor's primary duty to do whatever it takes to put food on the table and the student's duty to get a piece of paper that'll get him past the first HR line of defence.

      Don't get me wrong, I fully acknowledge that there are many people out there with a sincere desire to teach, to learn and to share knowledge and wisdom. Unfortunately they're generally not the ones in charge of getting the paychecks signed at the end of the month.

      --

      People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
    74. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by DamienRBlack · · Score: 1

      It is easy to apply to yourself because you already speak english. For foreign language speakers, they often don't have the option of going to a well respected college in their native language, the way you do. If you -had- to speak some other language to get a higher education would you think it fair that your inability to learn another language is hindering your mathematics degree?

    75. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a real sign of talent in a teacher if he can make an exam that is challenging, but it won't be helpful at all to have notes, a book, google, or an open phone call.

    76. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't truly believe that a surgeon has every procedure memorized do you? They have their own reference guides. No, they're not looking up the procedure while you are open on the table. They research and practice the procedure before doing the real thing. Certain things should be known by that point (such as what each organ in the body does and the limitations of how much trauma they can sustain before failure). The same thing can be said about mechanics (+1 car analogy). They don't know every make and model of car and how to fix every single one. They have reference manuals.

      In some circumstances, for really tricky and in-depth procedures, they probably do have someone in the OR that is guiding the surgeon through the procedure step by step. If my life was on the line, and it wasn't a common procedure, I would WANT someone in there referring to a guide.

    77. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by 4ndys · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The examination system in the US might be different from that of the UK or Australia where I have taken degree level exams, so excuse me if I have got this incorrect in relation to the thread.

      In my experience, I have been allowed a non-programmable calculator and a *paper* translation dictionary. There was no limitations on who could bring a paper translation dictionary to the exam, so there was no unfair advantage to someone who chose to bring one.

      I have seen some students with disabilities being able to use a desktop computer to write out answers rather than using paper and pen, however in these cases the computer was provided by the institution and was not network enabled.

      If the exam was open book, as is the case in this thread, then I was allowed to bring any paper documentation that I liked but was not allowed to have anything in electronic format.

      I have never been allowed any form of electrical device - ipod, mobile phone, laptop in an exam room other than a non-programmable calculator (if a calculator was allowed).

      I don't believe this has hindered me in my studies, and I see no reason why the above should not be standard practice.

    78. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Trintech · · Score: 1

      Training can make a doctor better at handling the familiar, but won't help when the doctor is faced with the unfamiliar. In some cases training can even be harmful -- if you have extensive training in recognizing a particular condition, you are biased towards it, and are likely to score more false positives for the diagnosis than you otherwise would. The typical scenario is the young idealistic doctor who takes a course in [moderately rare disease], and then sees that disease behind every bush for the next few months.

      Yes, I'm sure many people here know the old adage 'If you only have a hammer, every problem looks like a nail ' but I think you are misapplying it here. The first thing any real doctor does when faced with the unknown is get a consult (aka. get another doctors opinion). If the unknown occurs during a procedure (eg. surgery, etc) the response is this: Could not operate due to complications. Any other response than this (atleast in the legal world) is called: Malpractice. I'm sorry but doctors don't invent new procedures on the fly, there is simply too much to account for. Even emergency room doctors adhere to this as well (I know this because my neighbor is one and I just asked him about this).

      Getting back to the main point of this thread (of which we are woefully offtopic) the debate that seems to be taking place is between conceptual and operational knowledge (aka. why vs how). Ideally, professors want to test conceptual knowledge because this is what best indicates your understanding of a particular idea. Open note tests are a great way to do this because, for instance, lets say you're being tested on some chemistry principles; you may understand all the principles but forget how many atoms are in a Mol (or any number of other unit conversions). In a closed note test, you would get the answer wrong despite understanding the principles but on an open note test, all non-conceptual (aka. only memorized) material is freely available and you can quickly check it. Operational knowledge is exactly like it sounds, follow a procedure to get an your answer. Any slight change in the problem requires a different procedure to be memorized, etc.

    79. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by ImNotAtWork · · Score: 1

      One problem - How many Korean to English paper dictionaries have physics terms in them.

      The best bet would be to get his test translated in Korean by a upper level class man/woman or graduate student. There should be an international student affairs liaison on campus that can get this done. Utilize your on campus resources (usually you tell your students this but staff/faculty need to be told of this as well apparently).

      note: Answers to the test by the target student need to be in western Arabic/European numerals /scientific notation and readable by an English speaking/reading grader.

      --
      open source sub sim. I might start coding again for this. http://dangerdeep.sourceforge.net/contribute/
    80. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Whatever happened to using a paper dictionary? No seriously that's exactly what our university did. Graphic calculators were permitted in classes the lecturer specified. Otherwise no electronic gadgets. Don't speak english? You may bring a paper based dictionary into the exam room which will be looked over before you may start the exam.

    81. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      That's the understanding bit. I really would want a surgeon to be able to look up the procedure before the exam in quite a bit of detail. After all the important part is that he understands how to do the cuts in the way that ensures you leave the hospital upright. The specific parts should not only be able to be looked up immediately before, but also be asked or queried during the procedure.

      What you said reminds me of some complicated procedure performed in the 3rd world during webcam discussions with subject matter experts in the UK. I think this happened at the turn of the century and at the time they were hailing the internet as a revolution to performing complex procedures.

      That said a dentist who can't perform a root canal would have failed the practical assessment of his course regardless if he had a book sitting the exam or not. There's a big difference between practical and theoretical work and how this should be both learned and assessed.

    82. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by MechaStreisand · · Score: 1

      Tough on them, then. They're lucky enough to attend this school. They can make whatever effort they need to do understand what's being taught and tested.

      --
      Disclaimer: IANAL. This post is, however, legal advice, and creates an attorney-client relationship.
    83. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by TheTurtlesMoves · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Its is *their* problem when the move to *another* country. Its not the locals problem and its not the university. And yes i do live in a country where i don't speak the language. I get along fine for the most part because I know its *my* problem. The country i am in is can use their native language *all the time* for *everything* including exams and course at university. Its not my place to complain about it or to make it their problem.

      --
      The Grey Goo disaster happened 3 billion years ago. This rock is covered in self replicating machines!
    84. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by VShael · · Score: 1

      "There is almost never a situation in the professional world where one must solve a problem with absolutely no references"

      Can I just say that I'm actually kind of annoyed at this oft-repeated "truth".
      It very much depends on how wide or how narrow your "professional world" is.

      If you spend all day sitting in a server room, yes, look something up if need be.

      If you spend a lot of your day in front of potential clients who like to quiz you on how your proposed solutions to their problems are going to work, then you need to be quick on your feet and have a lot of different things ready to go in your head.

      In other words, I'm not saying your original point is wrong, just that it's only true for a (possibly narrow) range of "professional worlds".

    85. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by dtml-try+MyNick · · Score: 1

      That was my first thought too.

      If language is the problem and the students need dictionaries let them bring a paper version, problem solved. These things are dirtcheap so that won't be much of a problem.

      As for the calculators, compile a list of say 10 or 15 models that are not networked and tell them they can use any calculator from that list. Make a range from cheap and simple to expensive overkill so everyone can be happy.

      but I'm afraid that less-adaptable students will be unable to handle the switch from the calculator they know to an unfamiliar (but simpler) one.

      If they use iPads, phones or other e-devices for dictionaries and cheating I'm pretty sure they will figure out a new calculator in no time really.

      --
      Life starts at the end of your comfort zone.
    86. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Eivind+Eklund · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It is easy to apply to yourself because you already speak english. For foreign language speakers, they often don't have the option of going to a well respected college in their native language, the way you do. If you -had- to speak some other language to get a higher education would you think it fair that your inability to learn another language is hindering your mathematics degree?

      Yes.

      I'm not a native english speaker, and expect that if I am to go to school anywhere with a different language, I have to learn the language.

      Eivind.

      --
      Doubting the existence of evolution is like doubting the existence of China: It just shows that you're uninformed.
    87. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Takichi · · Score: 1
      Except that doctors benefit greatly from "open-note" exams as well.

      A collection of hospitals in eight cities around the globe has successfully demonstrated that the use of a simple surgical checklist during major operations can lower the incidence of deaths and complications by more than one third.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090114172304.htm

    88. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      If you -had- to speak some other language to get a higher education would you think it fair that your inability to learn another language is hindering your mathematics degree?

      Bear in mind that for these students getting a degree from a US or British institution is two qualifications; one for the subject, and an implicit one for the language. At least that's how it's seen in their home countries.

      You devalue the latter aspect if you allow them to do their assessments in Chinese or Urdu. And of course you devalue the whole thing if you allow someone else to do the work for them...

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    89. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Aladrin · · Score: 1

      When I was in school (highschool and college both) everyone would grown when the teacher said 'open notes' because it meant the test was really, really hard for a change, instead of being things you could just look up.

      Prior to highschool, I loved 'open notes' exams because it usually meant the things were in the book, but the teacher didn't think you had time to look them all up and finish the test, too. I'm a super fast reader, so I would look up any answer I wasn't 100% sure on. Which was most of them, since I wouldn't bother studying for those exams.

      tl;dr - 'open notes' exams can be good or bad, depending on the attitude of the teacher. Some use it out of laziness, and others use it to make sure students are actually learning.

      --
      "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
    90. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by williamhb · · Score: 1

      First off -- I applaud your use of open-note exams. That is the ONLY real-world way to learn and demonstrate knowledge. There is almost never a situation in the professional world where one must solve a problem with absolutely no references

      Pretty much every technical job interview they will ever undergo these days will ask them to do exactly that. Often over the phone. I sometimes wonder why we as a programming community recognise that programming exams aren't actually very helpful for assessment in universities, but then insist that even crappier, tinier, and more limited programming tests are the only true measure of a candidate's abilities when we have to assess them ourselves.

    91. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by MavEtJu · · Score: 1

      First off -- I applaud your use of open-note exams.

      In my (Dutch) school we had a book called BINAS for the Physics, Biology and Chemistry exams.
      With Maths we had a set of blue cards with formulas.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BINAS

      --
      bash$ :(){ :|:&};:
    92. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amen on the projects and labs. At my university labs and lectures were separate classes. I failed the lecture portion of the course, but got an A in the laboratory portion. Clearly, I was able to apply perfectly in the real world what I did not learn.

      On topic, simply ban the devices. I think the student who dropped the course will be hard pressed to find a prof who allows them to use an iPhone during an exam. Perhaps then they will invest in a dedicated dictionary rather than an app.

    93. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >you're going to have to make allowances for electronic devices like dictionaries if you ban electronics

      Make them buy a print edition. It's not like universities are adverse to forcing students to buy expensive texts.

    94. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Cwix · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Personally I think giving ESL students a paper dictionary to be the perfect way to solve any language difficulties. I would also see no problem allowing that student some extra time on the exam, perhaps even as much as an extra 50%.

      I believe that is similar to how it is usually handled. The main point being its kinda unfair to give a student access to something that might enable them to cheat.

      Either way, you would think any student that is taking college level classes should have a good grasp of the language they are being taught in, only needing the dictionary sparingly. Otherwise how do they learn during class without being glued to the dictionary.

      --
      You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
    95. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by jd142 · · Score: 1

      Taken to the absurd extreme, then no one knows anything because every relies on someone else. So what if I can communicate with everyone else if everyone else is an ignorant moron. No man is an island, but what if we're marooned with Gilligan instead of the Professor.

      Seriously though, at some point you have to actually know what you are doing without relying on help. You *will* have to answer a question when your friends are on vacation or when you are in a meeting and can't check with them. Who wants to tell their boss that they have to ask Fred the answer to a question.

    96. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, memorization isn't really important in the cases you mention. That's what the time limit is for. If you need to look up the definition of a multiplication every time you do one, you'll need several times more time to finish the exam than allowed. But I agree, just make a list of allowed calculators, but design the exam in a way that the calculator isn't necessary.

    97. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by GospelHead821 · · Score: 1

      You've missed the point of my argument. Finding the answer online or obtaining it from another person in any way is NOT solving the problem. It is just providing an answer. A solution is a process - the method of thinking that allows you to find that answer from the data available to you. If your solution is, "I consulted with people who already knew the answer to this question," then you have not performed the requested exercise. This is why professors usually want their students to "show your work." The answer on the bottom line isn't valueless but the student's thought process in getting there is what is really important.

      --
      Virtue finds and chooses the mean.
      Aristotle, Ethica Nichomachea
    98. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Build a Faraday Cage around the test room, then you won't need to worry about someone giving them answers from outside, and so long as everyone inside is busy with their own test - you don't need to worry about them much. Or build a EM Pinch - wait till the start of the exam, then detonate it and hand them all a pen, some paper, a paper dictionary, and an abacus. :)

      (and I'm a grad student, I'd respect the teacher who forced us to use an abacus after Pulsing the classroom to prevent cheating, that's hardcore!)

    99. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I understand pedantry is the norm here on /., but strictly speaking, there's a reason why it's called "American English". For 234 years it's been the primary language of our country, spoken in politics, entertainment, news broadcasts, and daily life. It's all well and good to say "Oh but there is no official language", but have you ever heard of an unwritten rule? Some things need not be declared, for all involved are aware of the status quo.

      Personally I find it just a bit hypocritical that folks from other countries come over here and expect to get by with minimal understanding of the language. This is the same thing Americans are harshly criticized for doing, and rightly so. You go to another country to spend any amount of time, you should at least make an effort to familiarize yourself with the language. This is just common courtesy if you ask me.

      But I may be biased, as I had college professors I could barely understand. (This is where being multicultural gets a little difficult, but apparently it's politically incorrect to say so.) And FYI I've got nothing against other cultures; in fact, it would behoove more of my countrymen to spend a little more time studying them. There's a lot to be learned in this world of ours, language barrier or not.

    100. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the future, when people have wireless adapters in their heads, every test taker will have to be surrounded by a Faraday cage

      Or maybe nobody will care about rote memorization / standardized tests anymore.
      Seriously, if everyone has internet access built in their brains, why would we prevent students from using it? What sense does it make for someone to be online for their whole lives EXCEPT exams?
      They WILL be using it in their future job anyways.

      captcha: within. Heh.

    101. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by kramulous · · Score: 1

      And you don't have to worry. Medical and surgery students don't get open book exams (well not in Australia - I expect Canada and the US are the same). It is pure memory. My brother is an orthopedic specialist and I did 3 years before deciding I hated it and turn to maths and computer science. I was shocked when I found some of my exams were open book. Turned out it didn't make it any easier.

      Vastly different learning material and professional practice.

      --
      .
    102. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No matter what, flatly ban everything that has even a hint of a rumor of the networking capacity.

      A TI-83 can get on the internet.
      Good luck with that ;-)

    103. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I tutored a high school boy whose math class used graphing calculators. He could (with difficulty) answer some of the problems, but was often unable to multiply two single-digit numbers. I made it through engineering school with a simple scientific calculator.

      Many of those engineering exams were, by the way, open-book, because the profs would tell us "when you are working, you will be referring to a bookshelf in your office all the time. We are testing understanding, not memorization". Of course, then I hated courses like organic chemistry, which were almost all about memorization.

      The problem, as I see it, is that these tools are used to skip learning the basics, because then the teachers can say to themselves "okay, they've mastered this item on the syllabus..."

    104. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by JamesP · · Score: 1

      I mean, imagine a student going to France and expecting accommodations because he doesn't know French...

      Funny that you mention that.

      One of my teachers complained about exactly that. On his first class some of his colleagues (asian origin) barely knew the ABC in French.
      But apparently everything went ok.

      When I was in France I was allowed a paper dictionary during exams.

      --
      how long until /. fixes commenting on Chrome?
    105. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by blackraven14250 · · Score: 1

      It'd be nice to know he knew the procedure. However, if something unusual came up I'd prefer to have the guy who 'phones a friend' than the one who decides to wing it. If you're having a 2+ hour piece of surgery is a 5 min delay while the surgeon checks to ensure something is right really so bad?

      Well, possibly. Anesthesia is pretty dangerous, and gets more dangerous the longer you're under it.

      I mean, I'd probably want the surgeon to look it up too. But it does carry some risk.

    106. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is a world of difference between the general GRE (which is utterly trivial) and the subject exam. I dare you to try the Math subject exam. Shit, the CS exam doesn't even have any prep material.

    107. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by AltairDusk · · Score: 1

      The problem with that is that English is not the official language of the US. It is the de facto national language, but it is not the official language. I'm not about to get into arguments over whether it should be, I'm not even going to state my position. I'm merely going to say that this alone is why you probably won't find any federally funded educational institutions that have such a policy.

      I'll bite. It should be. I don't say this because I hate 'X' nationality or because I think no other language should be spoken. I say it because to have a multicultural mix of people that works we need to be able to communicate with each other. Communication helps to break down barriers of distrust and misperceptions of "they're nothing like me". Communication ensures that everyone can understand signage in public areas or communicate with a police officer who may or may not speak a language other than English.

      If we can't all communicate with each other the country will continue to become divided and things will go downhill. If someone wants to come live here learning the language is not a lot to ask. I have a few friends for whom English is not their native tongue yet they actually speak it better than many people I know who were born and raised in an English speaking household.

    108. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by gander666 · · Score: 1

      Damn, I wish I had mod points.

      I got my physics degree before the internet, before electronic devices were allowed in class (other than a 4 function calculator), and graphing intersecting solids of rotation were ugly. Hey, I wasn't an art major

      Hell, we didn't have electronic card catalogs in the library. I had to look it up in a real card catalog, navigate to the proper floor/row/shelf and read the Dewey decimal code to find my reference books...

      What was I ranting about? Oh yeah, GET OFF MY LAWN!

      --
      Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress ... but I repeat myself. - Mark T
    109. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I heard they have a totally newfangled dictionary now, that works entirely without electronics. It consists of lots of sheets of paper, with the words printed on it. Like as if you made a big printout of a site-rip of m-w.com.

      Dude! That sounds awesome! Could you hook me up with a Torrent link to this newfangled thing?

      You rock bro.

    110. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >> First off -- I applaud your use of open-note exams. That is the ONLY real-world way to learn and demonstrate knowledge.

      Absolutely, I could not agree with you more. ...

      I don't quite have the answer to the original question but I can tell you of an strategy that has worked wonders when I was a student.

      1) Shift the position of the questions in the exam. Come up with perhaps 5 different sets of exams and make sure that the position of the questions are never the same between them. Now, anyone who wants to cheat won't be able to simply ask: Hey... can you give me the answer to question 1? He will have to type question 1, which takes a lot longer.

      2) Make the exams really difficult to complete within the allotted time. Actually, shoot for the goal that nobody will be able to complete the exam. How does this help? If you are racing towards completing an exam, you will have less time to communicate with the other students. Keep in mind that cheating is usually a relationship that is somewhat tilted. Usually, someone knows more than the others and people want to get their answers from the smart students. If the smart ones are busy trying to score a lot of points, they will get annoyed when other students bug them during the exam.

      3) You are a physics teacher. Getting the right answer in a physics exam should not be worth that much. The important thing is the steps that were taken to get to the answer. Scrap all this BS of answers like a, b, c etc. Make the students actually write the steps that they took in order to get to the answer and score them based on that. Now anyone who wants to cheat will be forced to write a lot of stuff into a small device with a tiny LCD monitor.

      Hope this helps

    111. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      learn native american language
      or get the f**k out!

    112. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by darkfire5252 · · Score: 1

      For example, if one is taking a proper mathematical analysis class but they do not know (by heart!) the formal definition of the limit by midterm, then one is left to wonder how much actual analysis they can do. Ditto for Newton's laws of motion, for example, in the corresponding physics class. In every discipline there are these basic things one needs to understand thoroughly—without having to look them up—to even begin to appreciate the rest of the results.

      As a person currently enrolled in a graduate level Real Analysis course, I would argue that memorization of a definition is different than understanding the concept and the implications of the concept. The proper way, on both homework assignments and tests, to determine if a student actually understands the concept of 'a limit' is to ask them to analytically prove statements involving limits, not to ask them to mechanically calculate the value of the limit of some function.

      It's the difference between the question: "F(x) = ...; find the limit of F as x goes to ..." and the question "Suppose you have a function F, with the following properties... prove that F has a limit and that this limit is finite."

    113. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Nemesisghost · · Score: 1

      This might work for most lower level or non-physics exams, but not for anything above the college sophomore physics class. By the time a student gets to the sophomore level an advanced graphing calculator is all but required. Yes, you can do all the math without one. But the math is so complex there is a high chance that you'll miss a problem on the math and not on the concept being tested. Not only that, the time saving nature of being able to skip or not worry about things that you were taught in another class(sometimes several years prior) greatly helps being able to get through the test with little difficulty.
      At the same time, I've yet find any mathematical application that can perform as well or better than my TI-89, or is as easy to use. And it pre-dates SMS.

    114. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Stooshie · · Score: 1

      Which one? Maku? Javaroan? Aushiri? or one of the 100 or so other native American languages?

      --
      America, Home of the Brave. ... .and the Squaw.
    115. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by batquux · · Score: 1

      And while, in the 'real world', you virtually never have to solve a problem from memory alone

      I must live in a very different, 'fake world' of my own.

    116. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Stooshie · · Score: 1

      I may be wrong but I think there are more Spanish speakers than English speakers in America. No?

      --
      America, Home of the Brave. ... .and the Squaw.
    117. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Missing.Matter · · Score: 1

      Depends if you're hemorrhaging all over the operating room. 5 minutes could be the difference between life and death.

    118. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by melikamp · · Score: 1

      if everyone has internet access built in their brains, why would we prevent students from using it?

      The purpose of an exam is to establish whether or not a particular individual acquired certain knowledge and skills. Allowing surreptitious communication with the outside world makes the entire project moot.

    119. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Allow electronic devices that do not have network access. Simple. There are lots of these paper things called dictionaries.

      However, most universities have language fluency requirements. If the course is taught in English, students must be sufficiently familiar with English. Otherwise there's no point in them taking the course. Not knowing a language is not a disability.

    120. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're expecting them to reach the ground at the same time, then you've just died because you are in a vacuum.

    121. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Taibhsear · · Score: 1

      Have to agree with this. I have no problem learning new vocab words. But they basically just throw the entire dictionary at you and expect you to memorize it. Not to mention the test is adaptive now to essentially bury you into a hole. When you get an answer wrong, it consistently gives you more problems of the same style. I usually do really well on standardized tests but the english sections with long passages tend to throw a wrench in the gears for me. I can get them right but it takes me way longer than other people. So with the time frame they give you I'll never finish since it, without fail, constantly gives me those questions. Aside from PChem, one of the worst scholastic experiences I've had.

    122. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not knowing English is a disability?

      I don't know French or German and I certainly wouldn't consider myself disabled.

    123. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by melikamp · · Score: 1

      My own teaching experience is confined to undergrad classes, but what you are saying totally makes sense. I am sure there are classes where a powerful calculator is essential, but this is still fully compatible with banning networked devices during a test. My major point is whitelisting in preference to blacklisting.

      At the same time, I've yet find any mathematical application that can perform as well or better than my TI-89, or is as easy to use.

      When I need a calculator, I just fire up python or clisp, and gnuplot or kmplot for graphing. There ain't nothing really that compares with python for calculating arithmetic expressions. And kmplot, by the way, is seriously amazing for flashy things like estimating roots, plotting derivatives, and (my favorite) drawing implicit functions of two variables. I always get confused by TI, may be because my first calculator was a programmable beast with reverse Polish ops (and so also a stack), and memory capable of holding 100 instructions (button actions and things like conditional goto). Different culture.

    124. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by JeffAtl · · Score: 1

      Very wrong. According to 2000 census the US has 215 million English speakers but only 28 million Spanish speakers.

    125. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Quirkz · · Score: 1

      Surgery is a procedure, and should be practiced. Are you saying you wouldn't want your family doctor to look up your symptoms in a book if you had some mystery disease he didn't recognize immediately?

    126. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please. If you are a private institution, do what you want.
      Otherwise, with MY tax dollars, preserve MY CULTURE and quit wasting money accommodating other languages. English is the unofficial language because of apologists like you.

    127. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by MoonBuggy · · Score: 1

      I suppose you're going to tell everyone in England that they should be speaking a language from the Celtic family, too? The original European settlers absolutely fucked up when they steamrolled in with their own languages, but then they also killed a whole lot of the indigenous population, so that's perhaps a hint that they aren't the go-to guys for advice on courtesy. The fact of the matter is that English is, rightly or wrongly, prevalent enough in the US, and has been for long enough, that it is entirely reasonably for one to expect to speak it in almost all day-to-day interactions.

    128. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by hypernation · · Score: 1

      When I was taking electrical engineering some of the profs. felt that if you could program your calculator to perform the complex math then you understood it. Some would try to load the textbook into their calculator, but it doesn't help if you have to read all that text during the test. That was before all the wifi/bluetooth/texting/twits.

      A couple of easy ways to get around communication are:
      1) Don't use numbers, make all the derivations rely on variables x, y, z etc... They must show each step as well.
      2) Create 4 slightly different tests. At first glance all the tests appear the same, but the details are different. A person who writes answers for test B on test D fails and faces discipline for cheating.

      Also keep an eye out for people spending more time looking at their device than the paper. Stand around them every few minutes, they'll lose time avoiding being caught.

    129. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by HikingStick · · Score: 1

      But I would expect an insurance agent to understand the law regarding insurance policies, required limits, and similar topics. Those are overarching concepts that govern the world of insurance agents. Sure. They can look up some things, even many things, but there are still things they must know and understand without constantly looking at a crib sheet.

      --
      I use irony whenever I can, but my shirts are still wrinkled...
    130. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We've actually had this issue happen at my college. There were 2 girls that spoke GREAT english except in front of the professor. They were good enough to fool most to all of our computer science professors to the point that they were getting help left and right.

      But then one professor noticed that some essays they had to right about freedom on the internet had pretty decent english - better than they spoke. Thinking it may had been plagarism, he talked to the dean of the school. They went and checked the "Americans with Disabilities" Department where all foriegn language "Have-hard-time-speaking-english" people are supposed to go to sign up.... The professor found out that they were rejected BECAUSE they could speak english well. When confronted, they kept the ruse up for a bit but were eventually caught red-handed again.

      So llong story short - DONT TAKE CRAP FROM YOUR STUDENTS! If they do say that the need X technology to do something like dictionary look up, tell them to go to the disabilities office and get a note. Otherwise they are just tugging your chain.

    131. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by thepotoo · · Score: 1

      If you really need help on an exam due to language related learning differences, you can stop by the access office (most major universities have one). They have people that can read the exam aloud to you, translate it into different languages, or just give you extra time. There's no excuse for giving native speakers an unfair advantage on exams.

      --
      Obligatory Soundbite Catchphrase
    132. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Cwix · · Score: 1

      You would if you were going to a University in France or Germany.

      --
      You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
    133. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by c++0xFF · · Score: 1

      Either way, you would think any student that is taking college level classes should have a good grasp of the language they are being taught in, only needing the dictionary sparingly. Otherwise how do they learn during class without being glued to the dictionary.

      Considering the TAs I had, this isn't all that true. Their English was so bad that a good percentage of the class gave up on the lectures. Those that stayed would rely on each other for translations. Not a fun experience.

      It seems that, rather than learning the language better, they just find other ways to learn instead. Of course, this is Engineering rather than the Liberal Arts, so a student can actually make it work.

    134. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by rgviza · · Score: 1

      >so you're going to have to make allowances for electronic devices like dictionaries if you ban electronics from testing sites.
      No you don't.

      Ever hear of a paper dictionary? That's what we used back in the stone age. You can still buy them. You allow electronic dictionaries, the students will find a way to hide ways to cheat in them. When I was in college there were no electronic dictionaries. You used a book.

      http://www.amazon.com/Berlitz-Korean-Dictionary-Korean-English-English-Korean/dp/9812680217/ref=pd_cp_b_1

      --
      Don't kid yourself. It's the size of the regexp AND how you use it that counts.
    135. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The GRE was the biggest joke of a test I have ever taken. It did nothing to test my capabilities. It only tested whether or not I actually bothered to purchase the prep materials from the private company that administers it.

      So, what you're saying is you failed it...

    136. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by c++0xFF · · Score: 1

      That's why an open-book test needs to have strict time limits, short enough that the student can only use it as a reference, not as a last minute learning guide. Short enough that looking up the answer to every question will cause the student to fail. Sometimes the test's problems can be designed to have a similar effect, but not always.

    137. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a followup to this, I'd also recommend designing your problems such that you don't need a calculator. My calculus professor created problems that only required you know how to do the material, and didn't rely quite as heavily on knowing less important details. For example, knowing how to do trig substitution but not necessarily requiring you to have sin(x*pi) memorized for many rational multiples of pi, and where necessary providing a look-up table.

    138. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by bcrowell · · Score: 1

      I partially disagree. Memorization has its place in learning. For example, if one is taking a proper mathematical analysis class but they do not know (by heart!) the formal definition of the limit by midterm, then one is left to wonder how much actual analysis they can do. Ditto for Newton's laws of motion, for example, in the corresponding physics class.

      Hi -- I'm the OP. I can't imagine that any student would get through my first-semester mechanics class without knowing the contents of Newton's laws (although they might not remember which is the 1st, 2nd, etc.). The reason I give open-notes tests is to convince them not to waste time memorizing random trivia, like the mass of the earth or the equation for the terminal velocity of a sphere. Physics is an unusual subject because there are so few basic principles needed in order to understand the whole subject -- but convincing students of that is difficult; they prefer memorization to understanding. IMO when a professor gives closed-notes exams, often the reason is that the professor is looking for a way to make the course easier. You can write an exam with lots of questions on it that only require memorization, and that makes the exam easy for students who are willing to memorize.

    139. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by silverglade00 · · Score: 1

      You probably could on a Kindle or iPad.

    140. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by SleazyRidr · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but they do take longer to use than their electronic counterparts, so you're still giving the language-impaired a bit of a disadvantage.

    141. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Kymermosst · · Score: 1

      If it happens that a particular exam question can be solved by going to wolframalpha.com, then what is the problem?

      Without being able to solve it yourself, you lack understanding. Without understanding, all that busywork you did is worthless. You have no foundation to build upon.

      Despite the fact that most people view college as job training, the primary function of colleges is to create academics, not worker bees. It just so happens that the knowledge base for a well-rounded academic is also useful in the workforce.

      --
      "Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives" should be a convenience store, not a government agency.
    142. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Libertarian001 · · Score: 1

      Um, yes, there is. English is the official language of the U.S. That the Constitution is written in it instead of some other language tells you this. The document tells you what you need to know. You just need to pay attention.

    143. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by melikamp · · Score: 1

      There are definitely classes really suited for open notes. Like a stats class where one has to run the hypothesis testing. There are many procedures, each with its own set of mind-numbing formulas, and the hardest part, the one requiring thinking, is picking the right testing procedure for a given word problem. Last time I did that I made it completely open-notes. No one should be forced to memorize these, even though they are the most simplistic models one can imagine.

    144. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Concur. I refer to the GRE as "algebraic corner cases and obsolete english words". An utterly useless exam.

    145. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Students purchase $100+ text books, why not a cheapo calculator as well. Students will cheat, given the opportubity. If it's not networking, it's storing the info on a device. Not to pick on the student that is foreign, but if she needs to translate during test time, that is her problem, unless you teach els programs.

    146. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Sometimes it's reasonable to ask someone else; you can't be a specialist in every sub-sub-niche. But even then a basic level of knowledge is needed in order to ask an intelligent question, rather than "Hai guru's I am needing to writ a report. Plz send codes URGENT!!!".

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    147. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by YoungLondonEscorts · · Score: 1

      Networking access is not a problem at all. There are such devices that block almost all radio frequencies that can be used for connection. Here is an example: http://www.jammer-store.com/wb12-wifi-bluetooth-gsm-3g-jammer-blocker.html It blocks GSM, Bluetooth, Wi Fi and 3G. So students won't be able to connect to the Internet or to other students' communicators.

    148. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by DrWho2 · · Score: 1

      Based on Slifox's first line it is obvious that the intent of any open book exam is not to teach the actual subject (whatever it is) but actually is teaching students how to search for all the information needed for the answer. If the student was a quick reader the student wouldn't have to know the subject, just how to find the appropriate information to formulate the answer. The problem with teach today is that it doesn't teach anything from what I call "First Principles". First Principles are the basic processes that one would use to determine the answer. As an example, today if a student needed to find the square root of 34 that student would get out the calculator, punch in the numbers and voila the answer. In this case the student just learned how to use the calculator and not the mathematics behind it. There is an actual "long hand" method that can be used to determine the square root of any number and that number is a First Principle and is what the student should learn and understand. If a student is taught and actually learns the "First Principles" of the subject they are taking then they will have the necessary knowledge to solve any of the problems pertaining to that subject and all areas of learning have a set of first principles which were developed before computers and calculators and other electronic devices. As for calculators they shouldn't be programmable and should only be capable of doing the math required for the exam. I should also like to point out that basing the mark on an exam question based on the accuracy of numbers is also wrong and flawed as that is what creates the need for such devices. It is actually imperative that the people who mark exams look at the processes used in obtaining the answer as that is what indicates that the student understands the requirements of the question. Making an error in the first number will always make the remaining calculations wrong even if they are done correctly. I guess what I am actually trying to say is that students' reliance in technology as an enabler in allowing them to answer problems and not learn the basic first principles will eventually result in a lack of ability to solve problems when technology is NOT available. As a side note, I have been working in industry for over 30 years and during that time I have had plenty of instances in which I have had to solve problems (logical and mathematical) without the ability to go look up some reference material for an answer so it was a good thing that I learned/memorized the knowledge I needed at the time.

    149. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Nemesisghost · · Score: 1

      Well, the math that I used my TI-89 for as an under-grad(it is now an over-powered adding machine) was calculus & algebra. Beyond that, I probably would use something else.

    150. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Vlado · · Score: 1

      With professional electronic exams like VUE and Prometric, you get automatic time extension if the exam is not available in your language. Typically this is about 25% of time on top of standard time alloted. That's the only aid. You're not allowed a dictionary. Either paper or electronic one.

    151. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I used to break my tests up into two parts. The first part was the stuff I wanted them to memorize. There is something to be said for not having to look up every formula every time you need it. After that part of the test I let them use a formula sheet and calculators. I thought of it as the best of both 'worlds' of testing.

    152. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A university library using Dewey decimal? What the fuck?

    153. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by pthisis · · Score: 1

      Could you carry enough books with you to pass the bar exam?

      Assuming you've done even a mediocre job in law school, it'd certainly help you pass the MBE portion of the bar. About 400 flash cards covering principles of common law and UCC2 would make that a breeze, which'd be easy to format into a pretty thin book with very fast reference. Throw in the BARBRI books and the degree of prep needed declines dramatically.

      The vast majority of the study time in the couple of months leading up to the bar is rote memorization of a fairly limited set of facts; deeper legal thinking and writing ability are mostly things that you've either got by then through 3 years of school or aren't going to get (though a brush-up can be helpful).

      --
      rage, rage against the dying of the light
    154. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yahoo Question: If I have a crumpled up piece of paper in one hand, and a baseball in another, both hands are 1m from the ground and I release both objects at the same time, which one hits the ground first?

      That is an interesting question. I imagine that there is some distance above the ground that if you dropped both objects the baseball would hit first, because in the real world you can't neglect air friction. Though, I am not sure whether 1M is enough for the paper to slow down.

      Maybe they should let students bring electronics, and prohibit them from bringing baseballs...

    155. Re:Open Notes & Well-Designed Exams by shawn(at)fsu · · Score: 1

      Once you get away from math classes that use word problems when is English used?

      I kid, but after Calc II it's all symbols, either Latin, Arabic Hebrew etc.

      --
      500 dollar reward for tip(s) leading to the arrest of the person(s) who stole my sig.
  3. Tough by flipper9 · · Score: 1, Insightful

    1. Tell the students "Tough!". You don't need a calculator!
    2. The best way I've seen professors handle this is to design the questions to only require basic math knowledge, or only require answers that don't require extensive calculations. Make it so that if they are correctly arriving at the answer, the math is stupidly easy.
    3. Tough about the English requirement. You are in the USA, and our language is English. And in a physics class, there shouldn't be that much to look up anyways. If you must have a dictionary, you can buy really cheap paperback ones. You think I get access to a dictionary when I take a test, or any book for that matter? NO!

    No test should ever need a calculator if setup properly. It should only require basic math skills. If it must require knowledge of square roots and such, make a table available or make it so that the final calculations are ridiculously easy (like square root of 9). You are testing physics concepts, not math. And if you can't handle basic math and basic English, how did they ever get into college in the first place?

    1. Re:Tough by kc8apf · · Score: 1, Informative

      Actually, the USA has no official language.

      --
      kc8apf
    2. Re:Tough by koreaman · · Score: 1

      Yeah, and weed is illegal in the Netherlands. What's true de jure but not de facto is completely irrelevant in both cases.

    3. Re:Tough by tc3driver · · Score: 1

      3. Tough about the English requirement. You are in the USA, and our language is English. And in a physics class, there shouldn't be that much to look up anyways. If you must have a dictionary, you can buy really cheap paperback ones. You think I get access to a dictionary when I take a test, or any book for that matter? NO!

      Last time I checked, America had no official language, not that I disagree totally with what you say.

      No test should ever need a calculator if setup properly. It should only require basic math skills. If it must require knowledge of square roots and such, make a table available or make it so that the final calculations are ridiculously easy (like square root of 9). You are testing physics concepts, not math. And if you can't handle basic math and basic English, how did they ever get into college in the first place?

      This isn't a horrible idea

      --
      42 69 6C 6C 20 47 61 74 65 73 20 69 73 20 61 20 77 68 6F 72 65 21
    4. Re:Tough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True, but I think that's missing the point. It does not follow from "the USA has no official language" that the professor needs to do anything special for his English as a second language students.

      The instructor speaks English. The test is written in English. Most students taking the class will assume the test is in English. It's not clear why it should be necessary to make special accommodations for people who aren't prepared to deal with English. Of course that's up to the instructor, and he/she is apparently being a nice guy or gal by making those accommodations, but I don't think it's unreasonable for him/her not to do so if it causes problems.

      It doesn't sound like this professor is running a community outreach program. Assuming the class is a for-credit college course, it would be reasonable for him/her make clear at the beginning of the class that special accommodations won't be made for English as a second language, and then try to write tests that don't depend on fine parsing of English to answer the questions.

      Of course the professor need not do it this way, but the alternative may be taking it back to where we started: trying to find a way to make accommodations with the side effect that doing so may make designing a test environment difficult in other respects.

      If the professor wants to make accommodations, maybe the solution is simply to hire someone to translate the tests in to the native language(s) of his or her students.

    5. Re:Tough by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

      this guy disagrees with you.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    6. Re:Tough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, the USA has no official language.

      So which states are the ones where the majority of the populace does not speak English?

    7. Re:Tough by thegrassyknowl · · Score: 1

      No test should ever need a calculator if setup properly.

      I disagree. I studied Electrical Engineering and even the most basic of calculations outside of first year involved sin/cosine/logarithm at some point. Sure, you can make the effort to contrive the test such that the students are only ever dealing with "common" angles (0, 45, 90, 180, etc) and such but in Engineering that often opens up a simplified special case solution that doesn't test if the student can deal with real world calculations at all.

      The instructor _could_ provide cosine and logarithm tables to the students but it's just easier to allow them the use of a basic scientific calculator.

      --
      I drink to make other people interesting!
    8. Re:Tough by MaskedSlacker · · Score: 1

      The instructor _could_ provide cosine and logarithm tables to the students but it's just easier to allow them the use of a basic scientific calculator.

      Or to allow an answer of the form 10sin(5/7). Why do you think it necessary to test that they can enter that into a calculator?

    9. Re:Tough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Legalese :)

    10. Re:Tough by commodoresloat · · Score: 1

      And the earth has no official source of light and heat.

    11. Re:Tough by thegrassyknowl · · Score: 1

      All real-world problems require numerical solutions.

      10sin(5/7) is fine, if you're teaching pure mathematics.

      When you're interested in the student's ability to form a numerical solution, track precision and significant figures throughout the calculations and then achieve a numerical result that is accurate, even after rounding and truncation, you don't want 10sin(5/7) + 20cos(1/5) as their final answer.

      Engineering is all about that, as are most of the physical sciences. It's not as simple as you'd like to make it seem.

      --
      I drink to make other people interesting!
  4. make better tests by Ryanrule · · Score: 1

    Make tests that dont require calcs. You can test knowledge without complex math. hell, use nothing but variables in the equations, if they get z=xy/r*2, then thats an answer. If they cant speak english, show them the door. This is college, not kindergarten

    1. Re:make better tests by hedwards · · Score: 1

      The problem is that college level physics requires calculus. And the problem there is that while there is ultimately only one correct answer, it can often times look very different from the other equivalent correct answers. Even though they all resolve to the same number.

      But, the real problem is that physics without story problems greatly reduces the amount of complexity and difficulty that's available. The number of people that struggle goes up significantly when they have to find the relevant variables and figure out how to use them.

      I'm a bit surprised that the college doesn't offer individual proctored exams as as an accommodation. I proctored a few exams for individuals with learning disorders myself, I'd be surprised if being an ESL student wouldn't garner some right to help.

    2. Re:make better tests by T+Murphy · · Score: 1

      A great way to demonstrate mastery of material is to have problems that require multiple steps- "an object starts at rest touching a horizontal compressed spring, 1 meter from a frictionless quarterpipe, what coefficient of friction must the 1 meter section have for the object to reach a maximum height of h assuming it goes directly upwards from the quarterpipe". Done symbolically, the problem would be somewhat complicated answered correctly- make a mistake early on, and finishing the problem may become nearly impossible- grading it for partial credit truly impossible. By using numbers, students should reduce to some number for each step, making it easier to isolate their mistakes, in addition to making it easier to grade later parts of the problem (if the initial velocity is 21.4 but they got 12.3, you have to figure out what the correct answers are with that wrong velocity). Also, if a student gets stuck, they can always say "I don't remember how to do that part, but I will continue the problem assuming a velocity of 10".

      There is also the fact that solving problems numerically will give you a feel for what the answer should be like- if your answer is off by a factor of 10 you can often figure it looks wrong. A symbolic answer is much harder to identify as looking wrong (you can still check units of course). I'm not saying symbolic work is a bad thing (students should stay in symbolic form as much as possible), but numerical work has its benefits too; a well-made test takes advantage of both.

    3. Re:make better tests by MaskedSlacker · · Score: 1

      But, the real problem is that physics without story problems greatly reduces the amount of complexity and difficulty that's available.

      No, no it doesn't. Only someone who never read Newton's Principia could think this.

    4. Re:make better tests by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The number of people that struggle goes up significantly when they have to find the relevant variables and figure out how to use them."

      Which means they can't analyze a situation, which means they are absolutly unuseful in that "real world" so many people seems to be worried about, which means they definetly shouldn't pass the test.

      So the problem was, again?

  5. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    > Well, I am not sure that this is the right approach

    Der... ya think?

    Jamming cellular signals is a federal crime.

    What a jackass.

  6. Not trying to be a spelling nazi.... by maschinetheist · · Score: 3, Informative

    s/iTouch/iPod Touch

    1. Re:Not trying to be a spelling nazi.... by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Not trying to be a spelling nazi....
      s/iTouch/iPod Touch

      Heh. So what are your aspirations, then? Spelling Security Guard? Spelling Old Man Yelling At The Kids In His Yard?

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    2. Re:Not trying to be a spelling nazi.... by BatGnat · · Score: 3, Funny

      The Nazi's dont care about the spelling, it's the "SS" hunts you down if you spell things wrong.

      No body realizes that Hitlers "SS" actually stood for "Super Spellers"!

    3. Re:Not trying to be a spelling nazi.... by hedwards · · Score: 1

      Wasn't iTouch myself a song by Divinyls?

    4. Re:Not trying to be a spelling nazi.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1,$s/iTouch/iPod Touch/g

      Fixed that for you.

    5. Re:Not trying to be a spelling nazi.... by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      That's not incorrect spelling, it's ignorance of the correct word.

      Not calling the man stupid; He's a physics professor. He just doesn't know the nomenclature for Apple PMPs.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    6. Re:Not trying to be a spelling nazi.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shouldn't that be "Nazis"?

      *Proud SS member since 15 seconds ago!*

    7. Re:Not trying to be a spelling nazi.... by Cryolithic · · Score: 1

      Thank you. iTouch is a fucking marketing company, not a product from Apple.

    8. Re:Not trying to be a spelling nazi.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Nazi's dont care about the spelling, it's the "SS" hunts you down if you spell things wrong.

      No body realizes that Hitlers "SS" actually stood for "Super Spellers"!

      The Nazis ...it's the "SS" which hunts you...

      Nobody

      Hitler's

      Superb Spellers

      Expect a visit from us soon...

    9. Re:Not trying to be a spelling nazi.... by Doctor+Faustus · · Score: 1
    10. Re:Not trying to be a spelling nazi.... by BatGnat · · Score: 1

      Vive Le Résistance!

  7. Talk to network ops. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Make each test distinct, choose a throwaway question that you know there are online resources to utilize that would answer it.

    Have the network operations guys gather proxy info during the exam period. Track anybody who connects to that site (or one
    of it's ilk) and match it to their distinct question. Give them an F no questions asked and refer to the ethics board for cheating.

    You don't have to beat the technology, you just have to catch them when they do what they know is wrong.

    1. Re:Talk to network ops. by InfiniteWisdom · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's not just about searching online for the question... you also need to be able to prevent people from asking their friends for help

    2. Re:Talk to network ops. by forkazoo · · Score: 1

      Make each test distinct, choose a throwaway question that you know there are online resources to utilize that would answer it.

      Have the network operations guys gather proxy info during the exam period. Track anybody who connects to that site (or one
      of it's ilk) and match it to their distinct question. Give them an F no questions asked and refer to the ethics board for cheating.

      You don't have to beat the technology, you just have to catch them when they do what they know is wrong.

      How does this help for cell phones? The school's network ops team can't log what doesn't go over their network. Then, you've still got to deal with matching whose device corresponds to which log entry, etc. Depending on how the wireless is set up, that may be impossible, and one teacher gicing a test won't be able to get it changed on his own authority.

    3. Re:Talk to network ops. by hazem · · Score: 1

      This won't work because if he starts flunking students or kicking them out for cheating, enrollment numbers for the school will go down and he'll get in trouble from all the people trying to get enrollment numbers up.

      I've seen teachers with tenure forced to let a student stay in his class after he caught the student cheating for this very reason. I suspect the teachers earnestly want to stop cheaters. The school, however, just wants to have the appearance of doing so.

      I would try writing the exam questions so that you have to show your work in solving the problem rather than just plug-n-chug numbers into formulas. My old physics prof made us draw the integral slices and such and derive the equation used to solve the problems. I learned more calculus in that class...

    4. Re:Talk to network ops. by cbhacking · · Score: 1

      So all I have to do to cheat and get away free is sniff the MAC address of somebody I don't care too much about, and spoof it? Iiinteresting.

      --
      There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
    5. Re:Talk to network ops. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't match the device, you match the query with the throwaway test question (if you were asked about a 40lb cart going 20mph,
      and your neighbor about a 20lb cart going 50mph I don't need to match your device, just what question you tried to get solved.)

      Set up a honeypot if you want (a website that google will find with the keywords to your test questions with some app that does
      the problem for you.)

      Pay a test proctor min wage to check devices for devices with a cellular connection. If you really really care and can't tell (or pay
      someone to tell) the difference between an iphone and an itouch, and money is no object (and you don't want to break the law
      or try to get FCC permission for jamming cell phones) buy a femtocell and watch the logs.

    6. Re:Talk to network ops. by smbarbour · · Score: 1

      It's not just about searching online for the question... you also need to be able to prevent people from asking their friends for help

      The problem here is that, this behavior actually SHOULD be encouraged (but not over-encouraged). In the real world, if you don't know the answer, you SHOULD ask your colleagues instead of just guessing. Your "education" isn't as much about teaching you the information as it is teaching you how to learn. Perhaps the proper way to grade a test, would be to give only half credit on any problem that the student needed help on (with no extra penalty should they get it wrong anyway). If the student has absolutely no grasp on the subject matter, a score of 50% with all correct answers (that he had to ask about) isn't going to do him a whole lot of good.

    7. Re:Talk to network ops. by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

      They'll ask for help on the sly, so that the prof thinks they did it with no help. Or they'll pay someone to do the whole exam for them, sending him the problems via their phone. Thus you'll still be trying to catch them cheating.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    8. Re:Talk to network ops. by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 1

      That's not the point. If you are rich enough you can just buy some rent-a-geek for a couple of hours, transmit the test to him, let him solve it while you fake it and then receive the answers. Similar to how people can have a thesis ghost written for them.

      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
    9. Re:Talk to network ops. by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      A university test isn't to determine how you'd function in the "real world." It's to specifically test what knowledge you yourself have. Your grade in a course certainly shouldn't be based entirely on tests but part of the passing a course is accumulating some knowledge yourself, not just meeting people who can give you the answers.

  8. Ramen by Jawshie · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The easy answer is go and get a microwave for the classroom. Make everybody their favorite microwave meal!

    1. Re:Ramen by MichaelSmith · · Score: 2, Funny

      With the door open? Or with phones inside?

      That'l do it.

    2. Re:Ramen by The_mad_linguist · · Score: 1

      Bam, they're a favorite microwave meal!

    3. Re:Ramen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Indeed, our microwave knocks out our wifi at home. That'd work.

    4. Re:Ramen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That probably means your microwave is broken / is microwaving YOU!!! (get a tester)

    5. Re:Ramen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For those of you scratching your heads: Wifi, especially cheaply-implemented university wifi, is easily jammed by microwaves. I found this out when I interrupted my roommates downloads while making a cup of tea. The tea was nice, but my roommate was boiling.

    6. Re:Ramen by aztracker1 · · Score: 1

      I was just thinking of a jasager wifi pineapple or something similar would pre fairly effective for in-class on test days.

      --
      Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
  9. Tell them to use a damn book by Hadlock · · Score: 0

    Batteries run out, devices inexplicably break, crash, bsod etc. If you allow electronic doodads in the testing area, are you expected to let them retake their test if their iPod touch freezes on them? Paper book dictionaries typically don't catastrophically break. I don't blame you for not allowing electronics in the testing area, I wouldn't.

    --
    moox. for a new generation.
    1. Re:Tell them to use a damn book by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What a stupid thing, going back 100 years and use tools made of dead trees

    2. Re:Tell them to use a damn book by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What a stupid thing. Going back 10 years and using logins and passwords.

  10. 10 years ago by porkThreeWays · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What the hell did these students do 10 years ago? AFAIK two semesters of English and perhaps 1 semester of literature are the norm at every reputable college in the U.S. If their English is too poor for your physics exam, they probably have no hope of graduating.

    --
    If an officer ever threatens to taze you, say you have a pacemaker.
    1. Re:10 years ago by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What the hell did these students do 10 years ago? AFAIK two semesters of English and perhaps 1 semester of literature are the norm at every reputable college in the U.S. If their English is too poor for your physics exam, they probably have no hope of graduating.

      Just graduated from Johns Hopkins (which I think meets the reputability criterion). All my CS degree needed in the way of "rounding" was 2 writing intensive courses (one of which had to be Technical Communication, Expository Writing, Fiction and Poetry [and my second was "writing intensive" in name only, a speaking class]) and 18 credits (6 classes) of humanities. For me this meant I took 7 courses of humanities, including those two "writing classes", for a grand total of 0 semesters of pure English and 0 of litt. It would be quite trivial to graduate with piss poor English comprehension in that setting (and there were certainly those who did graduate with barely passable English sills). Now from what I understand this has shaped up a little (underclassmen being required to take more writing, at least, to graduate), but sadly, while what you say should be true, it isn't. =/

    2. Re:10 years ago by apoc.famine · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As a student 10 years ago, I can shed light on that: We stuck all the information we'd ever need in obfuscated programs in our graphing calculators. I imagine the foreign students did the same. Back then, the professors were starting to realize that devices with storage capacity were a security issue when trying to test. Today, our ever evolving progress means that the battle has shifted to real-time connections to people outside the classroom.

      Still, it's the same problem as before - how do you make a level playing field to test students? This is complicated when the students come from vastly different backgrounds. As a former HS teacher, I struggled with kids who had accommodations to take tests outside my classroom. Some got the tests read to them. Some got extra time. Some had a scribe. But when they were outside the classroom, when a student spotted a typo, and I corrected it on the board for all to see, they didn't get it. When a student pointed out a question that wasn't overly clear and I clarified it for the entire class, they missed that clarification.

      What I realized after a few years is that there is limited value in trying to quantify knowledge beyond "100%, 75%, 50%, 25%, 0%". On any given day, a student's test will vary by 10% or so. To put much weight on a test is pretty silly. For my Master's degree, I looked into the standardized testing my state did to meet the NCLB requirements. Some of the score categories they placed students into were smaller than the error bars on the tests!

      Back to the point, the success of students with limited English skills is determinant on the format of their humanities classes. If they are project, essay, and perhaps even presentation driven, they may do ok. Being able to practice something many times, have the tutors (all colleges have extensive, free tutoring programs, ESPECIALLY for non-English speakers) go over it a dozen times, etc., may allow them to pass. Asking them to read and parse English in a short time period may give them too little time to actually complete the test.

      That said, I get infuriated by the foreign students who come to the US, and spend all their time hanging with their countrymen, speaking their native language. Every country I've visited, even if only for a week, I tried to learn some of the language. I hung out with the locals, listened to them talk, ate their food, drank their drink, and tried to appreciate what makes their country unique. Yet again and again I see students come here, and cloister themselves from the language, culture, food, etc. It baffles me. When I get to go somewhere new, the best part is reveling in the newness.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    3. Re:10 years ago by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      I feel like I've been at a significant disadvantage, not cheating on any of my tests??? Here I was feeling shitty about an 89 but you cheated and got a 95, and studied less? How do I notate this on my resume next to my GPA?

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    4. Re:10 years ago by apoc.famine · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yep. That pretty much sums up all formal testing. I don't trust anything more fine grained than a 25% box when it comes to knowledge. You and the 95? If your homeworks and projects were both pretty good, I'd call you both a 75%. If your homework and projects were perfect? 100%.

      Anything more fine grained doesn't tell anyone anything at all.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    5. Re:10 years ago by 7-Vodka · · Score: 1

      Hah! you have obviously never worked with many asian originated U.S. formed PhD students in the sciences. Shit, most of my advanced math classes were taught by these guys and since they only displayed about a 20 word vocabulary they could not even speak engrish. Sad to say all the learning came straight out of the textbooks.

      --

      Liberty.

    6. Re:10 years ago by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You try getting a degree in a language that is not your own and say that again.

    7. Re:10 years ago by bcrowell · · Score: 1

      What the hell did these students do 10 years ago? AFAIK two semesters of English and perhaps 1 semester of literature are the norm at every reputable college in the U.S. If their English is too poor for your physics exam, they probably have no hope of graduating.

      Hi -- I'm the OP. The school where I teach is a community college in California. There are lots of bad reasons for a student to end up at a community college: lazy, not too bright, etc. Now think about the good reasons. In other words, why would a bright, hard-working student be at a community college rather than a Cal State or UC? Two common answers: (1) The student is living in poverty. (2) The student's native language is Arabic or Chinese or something, and although the student is working hard as hell to get up to speed in English, getting up to a college level isn't a quick process.

    8. Re:10 years ago by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah, but remember these are mostly paying customers.

    9. Re:10 years ago by wangmaster · · Score: 1

      How was the parent modded insightful?

      I graduated from college 10+ years ago, and yeah, two semesters of English may have been the norm, but that doesn't mean that foreign students don't need dictionaries. Hell, half of my professors and TAs barely spoke English and nearly needed translators (in some cases the TAs WERE the translators).

      With technology the way it's gotten, I can totally understand internet connected devices being used as the norm for translation now.

      I'm a little disappointed at the somewhat narrow view of language and the world that alot of people seem to have.

    10. Re:10 years ago by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ahem, they have grad students, you don't need a US BS to apply. I know plenty of phd candidates that barely speak english.

    11. Re:10 years ago by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pretty much my thought. I attended a JC in California briefly and that sounds about right. Of course, the third is that it just makes more economic sense to get the gen ed classes out of the way inexpensively.

      I am now exclusively online, and find it superior in almost every way. This means exams are uncommon. My advice, stop giving exams.

    12. Re:10 years ago by darkfeline · · Score: 1

      Seriously, it wasn't that long ago when computers were giant hulking room-sized machines--people did physics just fine back then, didn't they? Only simple calculators allowed; if they're not even willing to get a cheap calculator for a class, they may as well fail... As for your Korean student, have him/her use a regular paper dictionary. That's what we used before, and they work fine. Granted they're slower, but that's an unfortunate side effect of not knowing English.

    13. Re:10 years ago by blahplusplus · · Score: 1

      "Yet again and again I see students come here, and cloister themselves from the language, culture, food, etc. It baffles me."

      It shouldn't, the idea that people want to mix outside their ethnic group is a historical anomaly, this is why conservatives laugh a bit at liberals in the US. Mixing people from wildly different backgrounds sounds nice in theory but not in practice. Most people stick to their own ethnic/cultural groups.

    14. Re:10 years ago by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On any given day, a students test will vary by 10% or so. [Citation needed]

      Some of the statistics courses I've studied, had some really interesting information on exams. For one statistics course, they found that the results you achieved on tutorial and assignment work, only explained about 50% (Can't remember the actual number, but something around here) of your exam results. 1 standard deviation was quite large, but resulted in only a few people who had done well in tutorials and assignments, actually doing well in the exam. Though I recall there were signs of heteroscedasticity, such that people who didn't do well on the other stuff, had a much smaller standard deviation, than those who had done well.

      I would be amazed if it was only 10%, estimated on average. I know mine personally move far more than that, especially depending on the "fairness" of the exam.

      Also, when you visit a country for a week, you can get away with this, and certainly the students who do better do integrate better. However, you also need to realize this is very hard for them, they're quite young, and they need a certain amount of ease/safety/familiarity to their lives. There's psychological considerations which make them want to cluster like this.

      Though I do agree, it is annoying, and the better students I've met don't do this.

    15. Re:10 years ago by jez9999 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That said, I get infuriated by the foreign students who come to the US, and spend all their time hanging with their countrymen, speaking their native language.

      I know. They should follow the example of Americans when they go abroad. :-D

    16. Re:10 years ago by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      Then why would you voluntarily fly half-way around the world to study for a few years? That you'd go through the effort to do all the paperwork and logistics to go, then not experience it is what boggles the mind. If you don't want to mix outside your ethnic group, STAY IN YOUR COUNTRY!!! It's really not that hard to do...

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    17. Re:10 years ago by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      There's a difference between going abroad, and choosing to live in another country for years. That's what baffles me - you choose to live in another country for years, yet choose not to experience the language, culture, etc. If you didn't want the experience, why did you go? Just to get a US University Diploma then move back home?

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    18. Re:10 years ago by gander666 · · Score: 1

      Best prof I ever had in university was Dr. Nguyen. He had a fresh PhD, and his english was marginal with a heavy Vietnamese accent.. When I started the class, (Linear Algebra) I was tempted to drop it due to it being too hard to understand his accent.

      But the man could TEACH. I learned the subject backwards and forwards, and in the future took advanced math courses from him because of his mad skills and ability to to really teach the subject material. I got a bunch of A+'s in his classes (I am a physics geek, so math is my thing, so to speak).

      To this day I claim I minored in Dr Nguyen. I hope he earned his tenure and has stuck with it.

      --
      Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress ... but I repeat myself. - Mark T
    19. Re:10 years ago by Missing.Matter · · Score: 1

      I started reading your comment imagining you as an old, gray man, hunched over a computer typing this out. Then I read that you stuck your information in graphing calculators and I realized "Wait.... I did that. Crap... I was in school 10 years ago too."

      The sad part is 10 years later I'm still in school, and I bet some of my undergrads (I'm a TA) think of me as "old"

    20. Re:10 years ago by MartinSchou · · Score: 1

      That said, I get infuriated by the foreign students who come to the US, and spend all their time hanging with their countrymen, speaking their native language. Every country I've visited, even if only for a week, I tried to learn some of the language. I hung out with the locals, listened to them talk, ate their food, drank their drink, and tried to appreciate what makes their country unique. Yet again and again I see students come here, and cloister themselves from the language, culture, food, etc. It baffles me. When I get to go somewhere new, the best part is reveling in the newness.

      While I agree in part with the sentiment, you've apparently never looked beyond the surface of the problem.

      And since you're an American, you're likely to have been welcome with at least partially open arms in the countries you've visited in this way.

      Having spent quite a bit of time in college, helping people from other countries settling in, learning the 'odd stuff', I've come to appreciate one thing in particular: White people are racist as hell. As are everybody else.

      Example: Two Americans arrive at the same time. They've gone to the same college, they have the same friends back home, they're both equally social etc. They have the same classes here and they live next door to each other in the dorm. However one has Korean parents, which influences her dialect, the other one has white parents and no such "problem".

      Took only a month and a half for the 'Korean' girl to feel completely left out, despite still being good friends with the white girl. Not her doing, but the doing of the native students.

      I've seen how groups of Chinese students who are fluent in English are ostracised the moment they arrive at a dorm, simply because they are Chinese. I've seriously heard rumours started about one Chinese girl, 20 minutes after she arrived at a dorm. Rumours I know couldn't be true, as it would involve teleportation or time travel.

      I've seen Indians and Pakistanis being frowned upon for having an accent despite speaking fluent English, followed by a loving embrace of Europeans who could barely string together the sentence "Hello world" without screwing it up.

      Hell, I've seen people go "eew" at the idea of eating food from non-European cultures, followed by "oh, that sounds interesting" when introduced to the idea of lutefisk or surströmming.

      My point is this: The reason foreigners tend to hang out with their countrymen and people from the same culture, is that other people go out of their way to make them feel unwelcome and unwanted.

  11. Faraday Cage, anyone? by Deathnerd · · Score: 1

    Just surround the entire classroom in a Faraday Cage. Surely that can't be _too_ expensive. ;)

    1. Re:Faraday Cage, anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Aluminum foil is fairly inexpensive.

    2. Re:Faraday Cage, anyone? by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      Yeah. GSM coverage in the Melbourne Concert Hall is inexplicably bad, In fact I seem to get no coverage there at all. A lot of attention was put into acoustics when the place was built so I wonder if the builders did something to the RF environment.

      Anyway I suggest the OP consult his local physics department. I am sure they will come up with some creative solutions.

    3. Re:Faraday Cage, anyone? by Barny · · Score: 1

      I voted [60] Stephen Conroy. Cross fingers ;)

      Hehe, me three :)

      As for GSM, I know the feeling, perfect reception out the front of my workplace but at my desk absolutely nothing, could be its a solid brick construction and we have insulating material (the tin foil stuff) inside the walls too.

      --
      ...
      /me sighs
    4. Re:Faraday Cage, anyone? by hedwards · · Score: 1

      Just make constructing a Faraday cage a part of the course curriculum. Problem solved.

    5. Re:Faraday Cage, anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like a good thing preventing assholes with mobiles ringing during a concert.

    6. Re:Faraday Cage, anyone? by Fry-kun · · Score: 1

      Constructing one isn't very hard, just line the walls/windows/doors with metal screen door mesh, then ground it.

      But that doesn't solve the problem of students networking between each other. If that's a necessity, a wifi jammer can be placed inside the faraday cage - this both prevents illegal jamming (nobody outisde is affected), and internally nobody can use wireless either.

      Might cost a bundle, though :P

      --
      Did you know that "FTW" ("for the win") is a direct translation of "Sieg Heil"?
    7. Re:Faraday Cage, anyone? by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      Yes

  12. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  13. thin client exam takers by pikine · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think he's worried that you could IM a friend during an exam to work the answers out for you, as if you're a thin client, with all that computing power over in the cloud.

    --
    I once had a signature.
    1. Re:thin client exam takers by zill · · Score: 2, Funny

      iCheat - Genius Bar for exams

    2. Re:thin client exam takers by c0lo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think he's worried that you could IM a friend during an exam to work the answers out for you, as if you're a thin client, with all that computing power over in the cloud.

      Idea: hinder the "sensing" not the communications.
      E.g. ask them to solve a single problem, in which the explanations do need a fairly complex diagram. Draw the diagram on a low-contrast color scheme (and/or on a very glossy paper), so that taking a photo (w/wo using flashlight) to result in nothing intelligible.

      --
      Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
    3. Re:thin client exam takers by OnePumpChump · · Score: 1

      Student traces diagram on onion-skin paper, photographs it, eats it.

    4. Re:thin client exam takers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With all the buzzwords in you comment, I was sure you were going for a funny mod.

    5. Re:thin client exam takers by c0lo · · Score: 1

      Student traces diagram on onion-skin paper, photographs it, eats it.

      Eating some good ten minutes as well. And having to get back some complex demonstrations/answers she/he's might not able to understand. Maybe will pass the exam, but I don't think the grade will be anything exceptional (and, IMHO, for a student that doesn't like physics, better to let go with low marks than fail - nobody has anything to win in asking the student to persist in something that s/he doesn't like. BTW: I'm BcS in physics).

      --
      Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
    6. Re:thin client exam takers by Sulphur · · Score: 2, Funny

      I think he's worried that you could IM a friend during an exam to work the answers out for you, as if you're a thin client, with all that computing power over in the cloud.

      I might be a client, but I am not thin.

      Student traces diagram on onion-skin paper, photographs it, eats it.

      Adds a whole new dimension to passing the test.

    7. Re:thin client exam takers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right. As if in the real world stupid or uneducated people never use networking to cover their shortcomings. My dad used to be a university professor and in his estimation, 99.2% of the attractive people he taught got other people to do their work, and many even plied the staff with a good degree of success. Even the hint of a chance was enough.

      Just like the real world. Quid pro quo or even "I'd gladly pay you tomorrow for a hamburger today!" is a fine skill that should be developed.

      On the flip side, if nobody has anything in their heads, it'd never occur to them what to look up. So while rote memorization for its own sake it pretty much worthless, some amount of critical thinking based on memorization has real value. The other day I was in the car with my 5 year old doing quick math problems and I said "Whats 5+3?" and he thought about it and probably deployed some fingers and said "8!". Then I said, whats 8-3?" and after he thought about that (and deployed as many fingers) for about the same time I said "Hold on...if we already know that 5+3=8, then tell me what your first guess is for eight take away three?" and he spat out "5!" right away.

      Shoot, and he didnt even need a language translator. Which, by the way, wont fly that well in the US business world. First time I'd ask someone a question and they'd have to whip out their iPod to translate the question, unless the answer was fairly immediate and awesome, I'd have asked their supervisor to either shuffle them off into a dark quiet place where they'd have time to do their translations or get rid of them with no stigma.

    8. Re:thin client exam takers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's funny how today we are worried about how to stop the use of social tools to perform an output.

      It won't be a generation before it's allowed, then made a requirement, and finally just an expected resource. It won't happen right away, schools are slow to adopt technology since teachers by and large suck at looking at things differently. Eventually they'll see it as an accepted part of society, and eventually you'll be expected to use them as part of your research tools. Unfortunately we treat our kids like cattle and train them in how-not-to-think-outside-the-box from an early age so teachers grow up the same way. Someone needs to break the cycle of sheep or it'll continue to take 20 years to get tested technology into schools.

      And no, I'm not just some ideologue on a fucking rant. I installed 3 million dollars worth of technology who's inventor and propogator I met. She was 70 years old and had done a study on students with developmental disabilities while at Berkeley. She had them read books, Clifford the big red dog etc, with her help until they had the gist. She then recorded them doing the same thing on their own. The study group and the control group (kids without disabilities) both showed marked improvement in comprehension.

      25 years later the cutting edge in educational learning in college-prep (aka High Schools) teaching 16-18 year olds how to read at the Clifford the big red dog level. And no, these are not kids who just arrived from another country. These are kids with 6-8 year (at least, sometimes with complete cumulatives.) The program was able to be installed because the Fed granted a certain dollar amount per student who required remedial reading. The cost of the program was almost exactly the cost of the new books+the new equipment+the new infrastructure+the software licenses(which were about 50% of the cost) with the teachers salary left to the districts themselves to figure out. Anyways, 3 million dollars later and 16 year olds can now have a good chance of reading at a 6th grade level before they leave for college.

      It's like educators live on another planet, all the while they're giving you a load of shit about how they understand your plight.

      I truly believe Jury Duty should be by lotto (you buy tickets for it) and Teaching by random selection. The whole: "if you can't do it, teach it" bullshit has gotta go.

    9. Re:thin client exam takers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What about IM other class members(collaborative exam making)?. In Spain I have seen similar things to this, people using social engineering on other "social weak" - "academically strong" people to pass with success.

    10. Re:thin client exam takers by RivenAleem · · Score: 1

      Isn't that also reflective of the real world? If I have a problem with a piece of equipment, why shouldn't I be able to get in touch with an expert?

    11. Re:thin client exam takers by Fnkmaster · · Score: 1

      In business school at Columbia University, wifi access was disabled for your login and password when you were scheduled for a final exam, at least if a professor requested it. This was In 2006/2007 when I was getting my MBA. Obviously this requires a proper provisioning system for wifi access school wide, but it is the ideal solution to allow gizmo and laptop use without network-based cheating.

    12. Re:thin client exam takers by Pharmboy · · Score: 1

      Doesn't matter if you have web access on a *phone* that doesn't require wifi access, however. Or if you setup wifi on your device in adhoc mode to just cheat off of one person with their permission.

      --
      Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
    13. Re:thin client exam takers by Pharmboy · · Score: 1

      So while rote memorization for its own sake it pretty much worthless

      I hear this often but disagree strongly. Rote memory is perfectly fine for basic math tables, formulas, geography, history, remembering your phone number, etc. Not all things require critical thinking, and having the ability to learn by rote AND use critical thinking is certainly more powerful than only being able to figure everything out by association.

      Rote memorization is a tool. It shouldn't be the only tool, but it is an important tool and anyone who can't learn by rote memorization is certainly lacking in their tool set.

      --
      Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
    14. Re:thin client exam takers by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      The point of the class is to make YOU the "expert".

    15. Re:thin client exam takers by RivenAleem · · Score: 1

      Yes, that's the point of the class, but what is the point of the exam?

      The exam should either be written so that no person/group/resource outside the exam is capable of helping you, or the exam should be a live demonstration of the applications of what you are studying, to prove you didn't just remember it or find it out from someone else.

      Other posters have commented that there are certain professions where you cannot have the safety net of someone telling you what needs to be done. And in most (if not all) of those professions, aptitude is tested by demonstration, not examination. I'm referring to doctors/pilots/building technicians. So any exam that is testing whether someone can regurgitate classroom information has only one function, testing memory. But if you are going to allow open-book, or use of course notes in the exam, then you should be allowing access to all sources of information pertaining to the exam that the examinee isn't expected to remember for him or herself.

      Someone who fails at the first, basic, problem solving step of the examination, who requires to be 'fed' the answer from an outside source via IM, will soon be picked up when applying for a job, or when trying to get into a position whereby demonstration of aptitude is required.

      Blocking the ability to IM for an answer only does one thing to the people who are incapable of answering the question for themselves. It forces them to use another method of cheating.

    16. Re:thin client exam takers by Fnkmaster · · Score: 1

      My cell reception was always minimal in our classrooms, but I suppose that's not the case everywhere. You could of course just say "you can use a calculator, you can use your laptop without wifi, but no cellular phones or devices with cellular network access". Then if you catch them violating that rule you fail them. :)

      It's never going to possible to prevent all forms of cheating, the disabled wifi access just prevents casual and rampant cheating.

      Alternatively, a multi-band cell phone jammer to cover a small area costs a few hundred dollars, if you must have a technological solution.

    17. Re:thin client exam takers by Pharmboy · · Score: 1

      You don't need a technological solution: You just say "no electronic devices allowed in the room of any kind". An analog solution that works. It might sound extreme, but not that long ago, it was the only option as electronic devices didn't exist. If people can't do multiplication using a pencil and paper for a *test*, then maybe they need to fail it. Calculators are supposed to be a tool to make life easier, NOT to remove the need to learn how to do basic math.

      --
      Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
    18. Re:thin client exam takers by OnePumpChump · · Score: 1

      Ten minutes? Maybe if you're drawing by holding the pencil in your nose.

  14. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by mysidia · · Score: 3, Interesting

    You can make WiFi unusable, however. Or you could alter the classroom so RF cannot enter through the walls or ceiling. And turn off the wireless AP in the room during exam time.

    I suppose convincing the university to alter the classroom in this manner could be difficult, but they could also see the value in having some exam rooms that are essentially faraday cages

  15. Wait, they don't understand that math is required? by OKCfunky · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Depending on what level of physics you teach, 99% of students should already have a TI-83 or TI-89. Just as common as a pencil. But I'm of the engineer variety in the USA. Besides, math is a universal language (and on that note, if they can't understand the common spoken language that they've elected for... too bad). If they are not capable of understanding constants and universally applicable equations... they will fail anyways. However, at least at my university, I've yet to take a class where cellular or anything non-calculator allowed at all. You take out a cell phone or anything that's not a calculator and your booted out of the class. In many of the test questions in physics that I've taken, it's not a big stretch to deduce what the question is just based on a few key words and defined variables.

  16. What does it matter by Bruha · · Score: 2, Funny

    If the student is capable of getting the answers right, what difference does it make how it's obtained.

    If the issue is that you're worried that the students are pulling answers off the internet then I could agree that you do indeed have an issue.

    However, I will provide a different perspective on the problem. As an employer the employee who succeeds is the one who knows how to obtain the information necessary to solve a problem, and use those methods to build their skill levels up. I have seen those who are unable to do this eventually be let go. So aside from the usual arse kissers who seem to proliferate most companies, those who function the best are those who are able to compile a solution from sources built up from years of work. I could care less if it came from Google as long as it's not infringing on anyone's legal rights that could come back to haunt the company.

    I honestly think you might be hobbling these young professionals in a sense. Have them show their work at least. Most free solutions to math problems never show the work, you have to shell out hundreds of dollars for that.

    [rant]And please for the love of God, let them write it down on paper and scan it, equation editors add hours to large equations. I had a teacher pull that crap on me once on a refresher course. I paid to learn, not learn an equation editor, my writing is legible. I can understand if others are not, but sheesh give someone a chance![/rant]

    1. Re:What does it matter by timeOday · · Score: 1

      I could care less if it came from Google as long as it's not infringing on anyone's legal rights that could come back to haunt the company.

      Re-consider the statement: "I give open-notes exams, so it's not memory that's an issue, it's networking." I'm not sure whether (s)he meant computer networking or person-to-person, but the latter is a real problem; what if the student isn't using google, but rather sending snapshots of the test questions to some help desk in Russian or India? (There are plenty of smart, well educated people in both places).

    2. Re:What does it matter by koreaman · · Score: 1

      LaTeX is your friend.

    3. Re:What does it matter by michaelwv · · Score: 1

      I interpreted the one of the poster's most immediate concerns is the students in the classroom talking to each other their networked devices.

    4. Re:What does it matter by c0lo · · Score: 1

      As an employer the employee who succeeds is the one who knows how to obtain the information necessary to solve a problem, and use those methods to build their skill levels up.

      Great idea. Teach them that anything goes as long as they have the desired result, including bullying someone into solve their problems.
      They'll make great managers in the future and will accept any problem/task (even if unfeasible within the constraints) because they'll be confident that there always be a replaceable slave to work for it. As long as it helps the corporate bottom line, it just doesn't matter.

      Even more, physics is statistically rarely used/required in an industry, thus the attitude-forming experience (of exams passed this way) will have a very easy justification to accept it as a valid solution for life.

      --
      Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
    5. Re:What does it matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What company do you work for? I'd love to work at a place where I can get other people to do my work and still collect a paycheck.

    6. Re:What does it matter by shermo · · Score: 1

      The biggest difference between school and work:

      In school you get punished for copying.

      And don't go off on a tangent about copyright laws etc. There is an abundance of freely available information out there designed, and waiting to be used/copied.

      --
      Insanity: voting in the same two parties over and over again and expecting different results
    7. Re:What does it matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or if not, it is worth befriending.

    8. Re:What does it matter by Sosetta · · Score: 1

      It's not that someone could google to get the answer, it's that they could communicate with another thinking being that is willing and able to do the problem for them. The professor doesn't have a problem with a beefy calculator that can store an arbitrarily large amount of static information, he just wants to make certain that the student is the one to retrieve and process that information.

    9. Re:What does it matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You misunderstand. The issue is not students pulling answers off the Internet. It's students texting each other the answers.

      The first is research. The second is cheating.

    10. Re:What does it matter by TheTurtlesMoves · · Score: 1

      As I tell my students. Its not the answer thats important. Its how you got there.

      By your reasoning, If you cleaver guy works out the answers, they should be permitted to just write the answers on the board for everyone else. Do you want one of those guys (the ones copying the answers off the board) to be the doctor working on you?

      --
      The Grey Goo disaster happened 3 billion years ago. This rock is covered in self replicating machines!
    11. Re:What does it matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In other words, researching the answers to test questions is a professional skill, but using an equation editor is not?

    12. Re:What does it matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is your imagination so limited that you can't think of anything that a student might do on an exam (a very important one-off) that they won't be able to do on a job (a regular activity)?

    13. Re:What does it matter by TheLink · · Score: 1

      I honestly think you might be hobbling these young professionals in a sense. Have them show their work at least. Most free solutions to math problems never show the work, you have to shell out hundreds of dollars for that.

      http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=integrate+(1%2Bx%5E3)%2F2%5Ex

      Click on "show steps".

      --
    14. Re:What does it matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is churning out a horde of employees each year the whole aim of the college education? There should be more to it, and more you do not get from the Net.

    15. Re:What does it matter by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      "If the student is capable of getting the answers right, what difference does it make how it's obtained."

      By that definition the best all around students in university will be attractive women. Their assets might not be quite as valuable to your company once they graduate.

    16. Re:What does it matter by Missing.Matter · · Score: 1

      If the student is capable of getting the answers right, what difference does it make how it's obtained.

      This is the attitude of many of my classmates. Maybe it was how they were brought up, but they believe the most important thing is getting the answer correct. Given this belief, the most logical course of action is to memorize the solutions to problems, and then regurgitate them on the test. They do very well, granted, but come next semester it's like they have amnesia, as they ask very fundamental questions they should have already learned the answers to.

      This idea that getting the answer right is just fine if your aspirations are to do everything that's already been done before. But remember, the most successful people and companies are solving problems that have never been answered. If your employees are looking up your business solutions on google, you're never going to be as successful as the ones who put those answers there.

      And I guarantee you the companies and people finding these answers never had this mentality of "the answer is all that matters"

    17. Re:What does it matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's an open book test. So it's probably contact with other people that the instructor is worried about, not googling things.

      So, yes, having someone else answer for you does make a difference. Looking it up would not make one.

  17. Speak English by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    If the kid needs an ipod/dictionary to be able to take the course, perhaps they shouldn't be there in the first place. Students should be learning the language as well as the subject. Where any of us allowed to lug dictionaries (of any sort) around during exams?

    The alternative is simply to dumb down exams to the point to where everyone can pass them and feel good, and the exams no longer matter. No doubt we are a lot closer to that point these days than we were 20 years ago.

  18. Physics ehh? by madcat2c · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    I would assume most college level students can work any 4 function calculator just fine. They will gripe about it, but to bad. As a recent MBA grad who has traveled to China, I agree...separate the Chinese student. It really is a part of their culture to share everything.

  19. Unable to use a simple calculator?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If they can't handle the switch from an expensive calculator to some simpler one, are they fit to even be studying university-level physics in the first place? Surely possessing the intuition to pick up an unfamiliar calculator and be able to use it is assumed knowledge for such a level of education?

    The advantage of this is that you level the playing field and can write your exam questions in such a way that expensive, programmable calculators are not required. If your questions are short-response (as I'd hope in physics, to allow for working to be marked), the actual computation of the answer is relatively minor, almost insignificant part of the process - the marks can come from performing the working itself.

    1. Re:Unable to use a simple calculator?!? by KingAlanI · · Score: 1

      One of my favorite former professors (midlevel economics, which has basic calculus and a lot of messy algebra) had a policy he colorfully termed the "$10 calculator rule".

      He had a standard "set up equation right and crunch numbers wrong gets you most of the points" policy, and a lot of the work on his exams was regular writing anyways.

      BTW, the basic-function calculator thing was the only part of the summary that really didn't make sense to me.

      --
      I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
    2. Re:Unable to use a simple calculator?!? by thegrassyknowl · · Score: 1

      If they can't handle the switch from an expensive calculator to some simpler one, are they fit to even be studying university-level physics in the first place?

      It's not handling the switch that is the issue.

      I use a TI graphing calculator. I'm very proficient with it. It's been so long since I used my programmable Sharp calculator that I can't drive it quickly anymore - even though 10 years ago I could work it as quickly as I can drive the TI now.

      There are some things that just work by rote - and where the buttons on your calculator keypad and whether you need to use the second function key to get at them is one of them. It is painful trying to solve a complex problem in a stressful situation without the added stress of trying to figure out a new tool which is substantially the same but painfully different to the old one.

      That said, I've yet to see a decent scientific calculator with 3G support. I tried using a few "calculator" apps on my touch screen phones (iphone and N900) and they just weren't up to the task of rapid number entry, and calculation.

      In real scientific exams you'd find no problem banning phones and laptops from the room. Just make sure to make the students well aware that they can't use their phones and that they'll need an approved calculator. That worked back in the day when I went through and phones were just becoming mainstream. I don't see there's a lot more you can do apart from ensuring that there are a team of staff handy to walk the room and enforce the no phones rule.

      --
      I drink to make other people interesting!
    3. Re:Unable to use a simple calculator?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i'm not sure what your university level physics involves (f=ma maybe considered advanced at your uni), but for most of the world it gets pretty complicated. have you Tried doing calculus or a 4x4 matrix on one of those pieces of crap 4 function calculators. but the calculator isn't even the problem its the itouch with wifi and a instant messenger, and a student that wants a dictionary. nothing you said helps. Did you even read the article?

  20. Go analog, extend time by dougvdotcom · · Score: 1

    I would go with a combination of analog and whitelist, revealed in the course description / prospectus. Translation dictionaries need to be bound printed matter and are subject to your inspection. Extend the amount of time available to take the exam by 50% to accommodate the analog dictionaries. Calculators must be a model from a whitelist of known non-networked devices. Just take a look at the TI catalog and pick the ones they can use. Students can submit their devices for approval during the first week of class; after that, only approved devices are allowed.

    --
    D
  21. Re:Also by BatGnat · · Score: 1

    Just like it's part of the USA's culture to go around shooting each other in the streets.......

    Wait did I just stereotype "USA'nians" (yes there are more Americans than just the USA)....Sorry, it must have been the theme of this thread that made me do it.....

  22. Put some effort into customization by tonywong · · Score: 1

    ...and randomize the order of the questions, changing values subtly for the questions, and/or changing the variable names and other minutiae in order to make it a bigger waste of time for them to cheat.

    Once you make it clear to them that the exams are 'unique' to each student the cheaters will likely panic and turf the exam hard anyhow.

    You can make 4-10 different exams and it will be way easier to catch the cheaters.

    In theory you could tailor each exam to each student but you'd have to set up a pretty good infrastructure for grading efficiently.

    1. Re:Put some effort into customization by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      That doesn't account for two things:

      1) A friend who's willing to do the test for them.
      2) Wolfram Alpha

      If you let people be networked, they can, with a little information/practice, answer any question fairly quickly and efficiently. Quick - integrate x*e^(2*x^2). Graph it. Differentiate it. Do Taylor expansion to approximate it. If you can't find it on the internet, a case of beer will likely get you someone who already took the course, had the notes and the books, willing to text you back during it with the answers.

      What you suggest will catch the dumbasses who look on the paper of the person next to them. It does nothing to solve the problem here, which is that networked devices can make cheating really easy and effective.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    2. Re:Put some effort into customization by TheTurtlesMoves · · Score: 1

      I had 600 students in my 101 class. I am not customizing the exam. Also the student unions kick up stink because they assert "joe idiot rich parents" failed because he got the hardest exam of all.

      --
      The Grey Goo disaster happened 3 billion years ago. This rock is covered in self replicating machines!
  23. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by NormalVisual · · Score: 1

    Well, I am not sure that this is the right approach but there seems to be plenty of jamming devices around that you could use during exams.

    As long as you don't mind the possibility of spending a year in federal prison and a $10K fine for each of the several violations you'd be guilty of by using them, assuming you're in the U.S....

    --
    Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
  24. SLIDE RULE by Steve_au · · Score: 4, Insightful

    two words - SLIDE RULE

    1. Re:SLIDE RULE by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      Two more words - FUCK THAT!

      And I actually know how to use a slide rule.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    2. Re:SLIDE RULE by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      I have a little one at my desk. The trig scale on the back of the slider would be a handy place to put cheat notes. Or even better, write them on the body of the slide rule under the slider so they are normally hidden.

    3. Re:SLIDE RULE by Oewyn · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I have a little one at my desk. The trig scale on the back of the slider would be a handy place to put cheat notes. Or even better, write them on the body of the slide rule under the slider so they are normally hidden.

      Hiding your cheat sheet on an "open notes" test sounds like a good time to waste time.

    4. Re:SLIDE RULE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Slide rules aren't usually the best tool for addition and subtraction. An abacus is much more practical, if a bit slower at multiplication and division.

    5. Re:SLIDE RULE by RivenAleem · · Score: 1

      ABACUS 33.3 (recurring of course) % more efficient

    6. Re:SLIDE RULE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/tools/be12/?cpg=froogle
      cheap slide rule

    7. Re:SLIDE RULE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, water slides rule!

    8. Re:SLIDE RULE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm only 30 but I did actually bring a slide rule to college exams something like 10 years ago.
      We were only allowed to use "simple" four-operations calculators, so I though i'd be better off using my father's slide rule.

      It was a pretty funny experience just looking at the "wtf is that thing" looks on my classmates faces :) And it was a useful as a calculator.

      Anyway the year after they re-designed the exams so that the actual calculus part of the physic exam was trivial and so no calculator of any kind was necessary nor allowed.

    9. Re:SLIDE RULE by tchuladdiass · · Score: 1

      I second this. Only problem is you'll have to find used ones on Ebay which may vary in quality and functionality, and you are unlikely to find 30 of them of the same type. One possible solution is to get the ones sold by ThinkGeek. However word has it that their build quality doesn't match what the traditional ones were, so they are novelty only. Second option is to make your own rules by printing out the scale patterns and using laminated cardboard sheets (or cutting the slats and making a tongue &amp groove on a table saw / router). The biggest difficulty is making the cursor.

      There are also places that have "new in box" rules for sale (ones that have sat in warehouses for years), but I'm not sure if they would have enough quantity of any particular model for use in an educational setting.

    10. Re:SLIDE RULE by Philaretus · · Score: 1

      I agree. Slide rules are the perfect tool for high school and undergrad physics classes:

      1. Most physics problems don't require the extra digits of precision offered by electronic calculators.

      2. Slide rules force students to decide what the magnitude of the answer should be.

      Basic slide rule use should be covered in Week 1 and electronic calculators banned. Slide rules got us to the moon and back; they can certainly serve for Physics 101.

    11. Re:SLIDE RULE by Warshadow · · Score: 1

      My father gave me his slide rule when I transferred to uni. I wonder what my profs would say if I busted it out during an exam. :D

  25. No need for networking during a test by sjbe · · Score: 1

    I'm thinking of buying 30 el-cheapo four-function calculators out of my pocket, but I'm afraid that less-adaptable students will be unable to handle the switch from the calculator they know to an unfamiliar (but simpler) one."

    If they can't handle a cheapo calculator, they probably weren't going to pass the course anyway. You can offer to let them get familiar with it ahead of time but they'd be better off studying more. Calculators and computers are a crutch. If students rely on them too much they never really absorb the material. Technology should supplement but rarely should it be the focus.

    I say ban the networking hardware altogether. I have a minor in applied physics and none of our tests when I was a student required anything more powerful than a scientific calculator (graphing optional) with no network capability. I think basically you should design the tests with that level of technology in mind. Let the projects and homework utilize the full capabilities of the computing hardware. Physics tests are about proving they understand concepts, not about proving they can work with a particular computer. If the problems require nothing more than a calculator that can do sine, cosine and tangent, then only allow calculators that can do that and nothing more.

    The professional engineer exam is open book but if you actually need to look up a bunch of stuff you aren't going to pass anyway. Most tests should be like this. If they "need" networking during the test, they didn't really understand the material to begin with.

    1. Re:No need for networking during a test by cynyr · · Score: 1

      I had a few electronics courses that my TI-83 wouldn't handle the math for. Polar/rect notation of imaginary numbers and math with them. So i settled on orpie, a RPN counsel based calculator. I did not have the cash to fork out for a TI-89 at the time. So yes sometimes people will want to use something other than a ~$150 graphing calculator. especially if they just forked over $90 a few years earlier for a different claculator.

      Mind I'd like a TI-89 or similar now, but most of the time orpie works well enough. FOr the rest python + numpy work well too.

      --
      All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
  26. As a physics student by hisperati · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I was just on the other side of this situation a few years ago as a student. I worried that some other students were getting unfair advantages because of their devices. I would recommend getting some generic cheap calculators for the exam or doing away with the need for calculators at all. Consider the physics GRE doesn't allow calculators. As for translation devices it is only fair to let students use them, but you may want to work with some university accessibility office to find appropriate devices and restrict the rest. Of course you have to lay all of this out on the first day of class and remind students repeatedly before the exams.

    1. Re:As a physics student by x1n933k · · Score: 1

      Well I know at most Universities and colleges have specific brands and models they accept, and those they do must include a inspection sticker. This is for use in Exams only. Graphing examples with devices are allowed in class, but Physics/Math at the college level doesn't need anything that saves Data.

      As a Canadian, I'm proud to say they thought about this problem at least 5 years ago...

      [J]

    2. Re:As a physics student by EvanED · · Score: 1

      Consider the physics GRE doesn't allow calculators.

      To be fair, if the physics GRE is like the comp sci GRE, it's multiple choice. I'm not sure that's exactly a good exam to use as a role model.

      That said, even things like the integration/differentiation of calculators (like the 89) that can do symbolic manipulations can be, depending on the class, a huge advantage over even more basic graphing calculators.

  27. No calculators by bziman · · Score: 5, Interesting

    When I took undergraduate physics, there were no calculators allowed... there were no numbers on the exams. Problems were like "If you throw a rock horizontally off a bridge at (v) m/s and it hits the ground after (t) seconds, how far away from the base of the bridge did the rock hit the ground, and how tall is the bridge?" And then the student has to understand that this problem requires the use of the projectile motion equations, and they to know what the question is actually asking and solve for it:

    w = v t
    h = g t^2

    One particularly sadistic (but awesome) professor asked a question like this "Suppose you're stuck in the middle of a frozen pond with a perfectly smooth (frictionless) surface. Propose a way to escape the pond." My (correctly marked) proposal was throw away a shoe. Of course, I could show equations for conservation of momentum, but the point was to see if students understood what it meant to be a frictionless surface and to simply be aware of conservation of momentum.

    1. Re:No calculators by jomegat · · Score: 1

      My answer was to bite my finger enough to make it bleed. Then squeeze some blood onto the ice and wait for it to freeze. Then I'd have something to push against. I got a zero.

      --

      In theory, practice and theory are the same. In practice, they're not.

    2. Re:No calculators by T+Murphy · · Score: 4, Funny

      Er, you misunderstood the question: you could escape by breaking the ice and swimming (before hypothermia kills you), you could wake up from the dream (frictionless? really?), you could wait for spring for the ice to thaw, you could wait for snowfall and use that for friction, you could yell and hope to trigger an avalanche (nearby mountain required), or you could put an elephant in the way- allowing dozens more solutions... I could go on, but the point is the problem required no knowledge of conservation of momentum, only your basic pond survival skills.

    3. Re:No calculators by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You could have just spit. Then you'd still have both shoes.

    4. Re:No calculators by brycef · · Score: 1

      My wife, who is an engineer, said, "I would go piddle, although boys would have better directional control."

    5. Re:No calculators by fermion · · Score: 1
      The difference between my engineering and physics exams, and the reason I preferred physics, it was frequently sufficient to set up the problem. Sometimes, for practice, one had to run through the process of solving something like a surface integral, but by and large the irrelevant and tedious process of long numeric calculations were absent. If one had solve a quadratic, the roots were often simple integers.

      So I agree the way to go a no calculator exam. If all the are going to do is put the integral into Wolfram|Alpha, where is the fun in that? I often wondered what was the pedagogical advantage of giving a kid that knew how to put a matrix into a calculator and regurgitate the numbers the calculator devised a much better grade than a student who did all but that work. It seemed that many of physics professors agreed. For the current generation of student, a calculator is like a security blanket. Not something that really helps, only something that makes them believe they can do better work. Like cocaine.

      As far as the language issue, I would say that looking at some ESL techniques might work. The vocabulary for a test might be limited, with many of the important words actually words that a student was supposed to learn from the chapter. Furthermore many professors merely modify questions the students have already been given. This means that the english language learner who has studied is already familiar with the test, and only needs to comprehend the new numbers. As such I am not sure how useful a translating device would be. For such a student I would propose extra time.

      This does not really answer the question, and really there is no real way to prevent network access. If the access to the school network it cut, then they move to cell phone coverage. You can ask that all network access be turned off, but it hard to monitor that. In my classes, I do monitor, but mostly use the honor system. I tell the students that the test is a critical part of the learning process, and the issue is not grades. They will get a good grade. It is challenge, which is also not a popular concepts. So kids cheat, and if one is trying to run a uber valid assessment of what the student knows, then all the student should have is a pencil and the test.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    6. Re:No calculators by Your.Master · · Score: 1

      That often works great and is of course what you want to do wherever you can, but sometimes you have to deal with events that have nonlinear responses to their inputs. In certain areas of physics too you're likely to have to deal with discrete math in bulk quantities that you could calculate by hand, but it was stupid to do so. Besides, simple $10 calculators are not, realistically, a big problem for post-secondary education.

      You don't know sadism until you're given a structure for static analysis, asked to calculate the stress on a beam, and then find out the answer is 0 because another beam exceeds its load-bearing threshold so the structure fails and collapses, and the real question is whether you'd notice that (I did).

      By the way, you said a frictionless surface, but I doubt the air is frictionless. You don't have to throw a shoe or blow air from your lungs while twisting your neck, or anything; you can just wait until a breeze blows you to the nearest shore :).

    7. Re:No calculators by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I assume you neglected air friction? ;)

    8. Re:No calculators by ArwynH · · Score: 1

      You do realise that you passed on the rare opportunity to answer an exam question with "LOL" and get a passing grade. :)

    9. Re:No calculators by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yep, even a low rated university, such as, http://www.uow.edu.au/index.html, didn't allow calculators for maths subjects. it was all surds like 3^(1/2) / 2. root 3 on 2.. etc... for answers.

    10. Re:No calculators by syousef · · Score: 1

      One particularly sadistic (but awesome) professor asked a question like this "Suppose you're stuck in the middle of a frozen pond with a perfectly smooth (frictionless) surface. Propose a way to escape the pond." My (correctly marked) proposal was throw away a shoe.

      Pfffft. The only correct answer is to wake up or stop haullcinating, because there's no such thing as a perfectly smooth (frictionless) surface.

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    11. Re:No calculators by Grey+Haired+Luser · · Score: 1

      > Pfffft. The only correct answer is to wake up or stop haullcinating, because there's no such thing as a
      > perfectly smooth (frictionless) surface.

      You must not have met many physicists... frictionless surfaces, two dimensional
      potentials, spherical horses... I could go on and on. And this is during real
      work, not just exam questions.

      Knowing _which_ parameters you can idealize is one of the things which
      separates a good physicist from a bad one! ;-)

    12. Re:No calculators by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That would not work, unless you assume a frictionless, atmosphere, too.

      If you can assume that, throwing away a shoe while out in the cold could be suicide. Instead, I would simply blow myself to the shore.

    13. Re:No calculators by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Frozen blood won’t adhere to a frictionless surface.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    14. Re:No calculators by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      He’d still have both shoes if he simply walked around the pond’s perimeter and collected the shoe from the opposite side.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    15. Re:No calculators by syousef · · Score: 1

      Knowing _which_ parameters you can idealize is one of the things which
      separates a good physicist from a bad one! ;-)

      I'm not a professional physicist but I'm pretty sure you can't ignore friction.

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    16. Re:No calculators by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually you could have simply escaped by farting once, using the rocket equation ;)

    17. Re:No calculators by jez9999 · · Score: 1

      Why bother with that? Just scratch a score in the ice.

    18. Re:No calculators by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Er, you misunderstood the question: you could escape by breaking the ice and swimming (before hypothermia kills you), you could wake up from the dream (frictionless? really?), you could wait for spring for the ice to thaw, you could wait for snowfall and use that for friction, you could yell and hope to trigger an avalanche (nearby mountain required), or you could put an elephant in the way- allowing dozens more solutions... I could go on, but the point is the problem required no knowledge of conservation of momentum, only your basic pond survival skills.

      Not to mention the small detail that depending on the size of the pond, throwing away a shoe might give you only a few meters of a slide, after which friction with the air will slow you down again. (unless you are also in a perfect vacuum - in which case being alone on a cold frozen pond is the least of your worries)

      A better solution would be to use muscle power and air friction to move: use your hands as an air-rudder, as if you were rowing or swimming. Or just consistently breathe in one direction - this will take a bit longer.

    19. Re:No calculators by Ecuador · · Score: 1

      Breaking the ice is not required when breaking the wind will do...

      --
      Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
    20. Re:No calculators by Linker3000 · · Score: 1

      I just have to tell you of the perils of calculators...In the early 80s, my mate Douggy was very proud of his flashy, solar-powered engineering calculator. We were taking a 2 hour exam in Electronic Engineering in a small, poorly-lit hut in the college campus at 7pm one dark winters evening. Douggy had spent a considerable amount of time running through a complex question and tapping furiously into his calculator. At that moment, the teacher who was overseeing the exam walked by and leant over Douggy to see how he was doing, simultaneously blocking out the light above Douggy's head. As the display on the calculator dimmed, Douggy jumped up, called the teacher a bastard before sitting down again to start over.

      --
      AT&ROFLMAO
    21. Re:No calculators by AlexiaDeath · · Score: 1

      This is almost the right way I believe to solve the cheating issue. Its not that you got off the pond, but how you got off it is what matters. The answer is only part of the solution. How you got it is just as important and if you don't have a valid solution, the correct answer alone is void. The task should set up so that passing the task over wireless, letting someone else solve it and then copy down into your work would be unfeasible within exam time. My physics teacher did something like that with a unique twist. Each test was unique based on where you sat or who you were. Some factor that went into equations differed or sometimes whole tasks were split by such arbitrary factors takers had to write on test paper. Essentially everyone were writing their own test, verbatim copy was not possible and you would have never had enough time to communicate the whole task outside and then copy it into your work.

    22. Re:No calculators by Ollabelle · · Score: 1

      Really? I thought he understood the question. By throwing the shoe, he pushed himself ever so slightly in the other direction. Being on a frictionless surface, he would glide to the edge of the pond opposite of the direction he threw the shoe.

      --
      Ibid.
    23. Re:No calculators by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Walk around the pond? That's not a very optimal solution. Once you reach your destination side of the pond, all you have to do is use the non-frictionless ground to push off of and propel yourself back across the pond to the side your shoe is on. This way, 1) the distance covered is shorter, and 2) you don't have to worry about getting your sock or bare foot wet/dirty, or hop around the pond on one foot.

    24. Re:No calculators by T+Murphy · · Score: 1

      I wasn't questioning the validity of his answer, but his analysis that the problem tested both understanding of friction and conservation of momentum (by coming up with solutions that "solve" the ice problem). Of course I'm only joking around, but I am kind of going along the same line as the famous "how to measure the height of a building with a barometer" (google it if you must).

    25. Re:No calculators by alexo · · Score: 1

      I assume you neglected air friction? ;)

      Isn't that a given?
      Spherical horses in vacuum and all that.
       

    26. Re:No calculators by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Problems in general physics" by I. E Irodov has huge collection of such problems for undergraduate students.

    27. Re:No calculators by xonicx · · Score: 1

      or you can use your pee as rocket thrusters.

    28. Re:No calculators by Ollabelle · · Score: 1

      It wasn't until after I replied that I saw your post tagged as funny; I guess I'm the only one who didn't get the joke (and I do know the barometer story).

      --
      Ibid.
    29. Re:No calculators by Quirkz · · Score: 1
      There's no such thing as superman or kryptonite, either, but one of the more awesome exam questions I had to answer was to imagine a shard of kryptonite with a field with a certain strength distribution, and then use more math to determine which direction superman should fly to escape the most quickly.

      Another exam question involved a punchbowl, partiers who were slowly but steadily spiking the punch while drinking the punch, and some supposition of what alcohol volume would make a person drunk, and solving for the time it would take for everyone to be drunk.

    30. Re:No calculators by Quirkz · · Score: 1

      You're confusing engineering with physics. Engineers can't ignore friction. In physics you can and often do, and that's just fine. Heck, in an astrophysics class we could tend to assume 2 = 10 (or anything greater than one was just another order of magnitude), and get away with it for the purposes of discussion.

    31. Re:No calculators by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The correct answer is:

      "...More beans, Mr. Taggert?"

    32. Re:No calculators by SleazyRidr · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't it? I suppose it depends upon the nature of the 'frictionless' surface, but I would have thought that the blood could join into the crystal lattice of the existing ice...

      This calls for further research.

    33. Re:No calculators by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You didn't pass physics either?

    34. Re:No calculators by chihowa · · Score: 1

      Frozen blood won’t adhere to a frictionless surface.

      It doesn't have to. It's essentially the same answer as the shoe answer, just that pushing against the blood will get you to the shore ten years later!

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
    35. Re:No calculators by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My professor for undergraduate physics last quarter had this exact question on one of the midterms. I had a similar answer to yours, but I was required to show the equations.

    36. Re:No calculators by cos(0) · · Score: 1

      Haha, seriously?

      One reason for the zero might be that if the surface is frictionless, blood won't stick to it either.

  28. Get the calculators by deadcyclo · · Score: 1

    "I'm thinking of buying 30 el-cheapo four-function calculators out of my pocket, but I'm afraid that less-adaptable students will be unable to handle the switch from the calculator they know to an unfamiliar (but simpler) one." Wait. What? College students taking physics should be able to handle a simple calculator, no matter what the make or model. If they aren't, I think they are in the wrong place.

  29. Re:Communal Calculators by v1 · · Score: 1

    Really, anymore if kids want to cheat they're going to. However, in math it's a wee bit difficult so long as you require them to show their work for the solution. If they're going to spend their entire time cheating, they're paying themselves to remain stupid so... Let them I guess.

    Only problem there is it harms the credibility of your school. A diploma from a school that is known to ignore cheaters loses value against one from a school that fights cheating and makes their students earn their grades.

    But addressing some other posts, jamming is not a perfect option. One method of wireless cheating is asking questions over IM via your cell phone, and you can't legally jam cell phone traffic. The faraday cage idea is probably the best to prevent external resourcing, but doesn't address student-to-student collaboration during the test. Savvy students could set up an ad-hoc chat room with each other during the test, breaking it up into questions each knew best, providing the group with answers, and make out like bandits. So you'd almost need a combination of the two... good faraday cage and jamming of wifi and cell within the cage. (which should be legal as long as the cage holds in the cell jamming?)

    --
    I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
  30. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by ls671 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Watch your big mouth son:

    Contact the FCC for permit applications and waivers.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone_jammer

    --
    Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
  31. Cheap calculators by Old+VMS+Junkie · · Score: 1

    Make them buy a cheap TI-30 and that can be the only thing they use. No programmable calculators, no smartphones, no netbooks, etc. If they can't do an open notes test with just a simple calculator, the deserve an F. And if they can afford to go to college, they can afford a $10 calculator.

    1. Re:Cheap calculators by ChrisK87 · · Score: 1

      I highly recommend the TI-30X series of calculators. The layout is second nature to anyone who has used the TI-83/84/89/90 series and intuitive for anyone else. It maintains the 2-line screen, where you can see the data you've entered on the same screen as the calculation and scroll through past entries. It does roots, trig functions, and logarithms without graphing or solving equations symbolically (like the 89). It has a very primitive memory, with A, B, C, D, and E that can be set to numerical values. This is handy for running the same formula at several values but could not be used to store notes anywhere (though perhaps a multiple choice letter string could get out in one; if you're doing multiple choice you should be doing several exam keys already to reduce over-the shoulder copying). You can also wipe their memory between tests easily by going 2nd >> Reset >> Yes(enter).

      They're $12 at walmart (( http://www.walmart.com/ip/Texas-Instruments-TI-30X-IIS-Calculator-Morpho-Blue/14918006 )), and easily cheap enough to stick on your students' reading lists, or require any primitive no-memory calculator and carry backup enough calculators for 15% of the class. I had a professor that would rent calculators to students for $1/test. Seemed like kind of a dick move even though it isn't really, but I understand he makes $10-20 per test period off it, and could put that toward recouping his investment.

      As far as digital translators, etc, I have to think you should not allow in devices that can store text or reach outside networks. I have some sympathy for second language students, but networked devices in testing areas is going too far. Particularly since you couldn't be expected to tell a realtime email/text correspondence in Korean from a set of harmless definitions. If you can come up with a reasonable middle ground, by all means do it, but do not allow networkable devices into classrooms.

      On a side note, I do applaud the open book testing format. It's more applicable to the non-academic world, and it forces testing on processes rather than information regurgitation.

  32. cultures AND pressures by Lord+Ender · · Score: 5, Insightful

    First remember that foreign students pay FAR more than we do to go to US schools. Compound that with the fact that many come from poor countries. The pressure to succeed is EXTREME. Furthermore, not all cultures despise cheating as much as Western culture. The results are predictable.

    Personal anecdote: I was invited to the Indian CS students' "study session" once while on a group project. I was AMAZED. They had a library of homework and test questions and answers. They passed them around casually. They also begged me for graded solutions from my previous courses to add to their collection. They were all cheating their way through and thought it was normal.

    They also kept asking me how I could come up with working algorithms to programming assignments on my own (without copying from something). It was as if actually being able to program was wizardry to them. I wonder why.......

    --
    A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    1. Re:cultures AND pressures by MichaelSmith · · Score: 2, Insightful

      One physics lecturer at the college I went to openly trained students to pass the exam. He was shameless. Every example he took us through became a question in the final examination. Needless to say he was a popular guy. This was in the days before there were a significant number of foreign students.

    2. Re:cultures AND pressures by Dravik · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure doing historical research for the course is cheating. I know the first thing I do in any task, job or school related is to find out what was done before. Hell, for most courses I've taken, prior exams are just about the only way to get an idea of what a particular professor thinks is important. The homework just covers too much material to study it all.

      --
      The purpose of language is communication, If the idea is clear the grammar ain't important
    3. Re:cultures AND pressures by Lord+Ender · · Score: 1, Troll

      In work, getting answers matters most. In school, being forced to THINK (not copy) is what matters most.

      But I'm glad the cheating worked out for you.

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    4. Re:cultures AND pressures by roju · · Score: 1

      I had a classical mechanics prof put the same question on two midterms and the final. I actually laughed out loud during the final when I got to that question.

    5. Re:cultures AND pressures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep, saw the same thing with the International students in finance. They had copies of every permutation of the same tests the professor kept giving. Worst part was the school was so in love with the money they brought in (compared to us taxpayers who somehow didn't count for institutional support), the course was geared to be over quickly so they could enjoy their summer! Not one student taking the course honestly was able to pass (including those with degrees in the topic) since most normal people can't digest 6 chapters in one week and take the test the following Monday. The cheaters sure could, though!

      This problem will never be addressed as long as schools fear alienating their cash cow international students.

    6. Re:cultures AND pressures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think having access to previous exams constitutes cheating at all. It only helps you to see what is important and what kind of questions to expect so that you can PRACTICE how to solve such problems whilst preparing. Furthermore, there is a certain fairness aspect to it, if there's a collection of previous exams accessible to everyone since some students might otherwise get an unfair advantage just like the great grandparent said. At my university (in Finland) the student organizations maintain such collections (people just grab the questions with them when leaving an exam and add it to the collection) and the professors are fully aware of it and have no problem with it since they obviously always make new questions for every exam.

      However, I must also agree about foreign students having different ethics: We have a special programme in which some 200 of China's supposedly best and brightest students come here and so far, my observations have been that the two times when I've done some team assignment with them, they've done nothing except gotten their name handed in. One had to suddenly attend a funeral in China but hoped we understood how important the course was for him and another had all his work eaten by MS Word (when the fact of the matter was clear that he just wasn't ready for that course but wanted to graduate fast or something). I've also noticed that they have no problem writing multiple names on attendance lists when lecture attendance is mandatory and once I could barely concentrate on my own exam when a Chinese student in front of me was clearly cheating without getting caught. His "graphic calculator", which was the only aid allowed, was clearly more than that - it was some Chinese device similar to a netbook with a screen full of text (so huge that I couldn't help seeing it despite trying not to look). Finally, my mother, who used to teach Finnish at a different university, told me that Russian students consider it obvious that "you help each other out" during exams and couldn't understand at all why she was so strict that if she noticed them talking to each other during an exam, they failed it.

    7. Re:cultures AND pressures by shtrom · · Score: 1

      I was AMAZED. They had a library of homework and test questions and answers. They passed them around casually. They also begged me for graded solutions from my previous courses to add to their collection. They were all cheating their way through and thought it was normal.

      Well, I'm not sure doing this is intrinsicly wrong. In some schools I've been at, the student committee organised, with the teacher's approval, a large collection of past exams. We could get them, along with the answers to prepare for our own. We (or at least I) wouldn't blindly learn the answers, but rather try to solve as many as possible until we were reasonably confident that we knew the subject enough to reliably solve an bunch of exam-grade exercises on that topic, regardless of what the actual exercises were. I think I understood half, if not more, of a subject while doing that.

      In the end, I wouldn't consider that cheating, but I think it mostly depends on how you use this material, and how careful the teachers are of giving proper exams (i.e. not so simple that it only requires having sat through the first lecture nor containing all the same exercises as the last million years).

    8. Re:cultures AND pressures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would not categorize it as cheating, as what they were doing is a form of rote learning. Students from the Commonwealth countries (India, Singapore, etc.) have a British legacy of sitting for Cambridge examinations ('O'-levels, 'A'-levels, etc.). The way to ace these exams is to practice, practice, and more practice using past examination questions. It does not mean that identical questions will come up again, and thus they can 'cheat'. Instead, through practice, they gain speed in question recognition and the associated solution path. Official compilations of past examination questions are even available for purchase: Ten year series http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_year_series. In other words, this library of questions and answers is just an extreme form of what SAT Test Practice Questions provide.

    9. Re:cultures AND pressures by julesh · · Score: 1

      They also kept asking me how I could come up with working algorithms to programming assignments on my own (without copying from something). It was as if actually being able to program was wizardry to them. I wonder why.......

      Probably because it is to most people. Something I've noticed in coming up to 15 years in this industry is that only about 20% of the people in it appear to be able to come up with their own solutions; everyone else just copies & pastes code then plays with it until it works.

    10. Re:cultures AND pressures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is why I don't like working with people from that particular group. They don't have the basic solution skills required to do the work. I quit my previous employer because of over use of this type of resource. As the team lead I kept getting the sh*t for an under performing team that I'd had not been able to choose. There was a continuous sound of deadlines whooshing past!

    11. Re:cultures AND pressures by lordlod · · Score: 2, Interesting

      During one of the last tutorials before an electronics exam the lecturer was asked to explain a problem from a text book. There was a very noticeable pause when he read and realised the question. Enough to make all of us twig something was up.

      Sure enough, the same question was in the exam with different values.

      Not his fault though, the alternative, saying "I can't answer this question because it's in the exam", would have been even worse.

    12. Re:cultures AND pressures by definate · · Score: 1

      This is my experience also, but with Asian students, since they are the largest cohesive group at my University. In fact, in one statistics lecture, the Asian students all had the answers to the quizzes (which were graded but didn't count for much), either way, when the statistics lecturer saw the numbers, he didn't think the distribution looked right, so he changed up the questions, and what do you know, the next few quizzes those students got scores of 0. We found it hilarious.

      Now for the tragic part. These students are just shooting themselves in the foot, they just scrape through with exams, and bluff their way through University. This happens on such a large scale, that these groups are now known for it in the work force. To the point that employers see foreign sounding names, and they immediately discount what they have on their resume. This is so prolific that I know Asian, Indian, and African students, who have spent a lot of money, and can not get a job. Some of them really don't know their stuff, but some are just unlucky to being lumped in with that group. I have a first name which most think is foreign, and I didn't realize that this was a detriment until an Indian mate of mine, who grew up here, told me about this. I've since hung out with some friends who interview people at companies I've worked for, and they've told me flat out that it works majorly against you. So these days I leave my first name off of resumes, just give them my middle and last name, and my response rate has dramatically improved.

      Little do they know, that while this helps them get through at the moment, it has resulted in what they're paying for, being almost useless. However, after hanging out with a lot of these guys, I now know that regardless of their ability to pull a good job, what the piece of paper that they paid so much for was really about, was getting citizenship. Which in Australia, it still does. This was explained to me by a Vietnamese guy. His family was paying for him to come here, and he just needed to pass, so he could get citizenship, setup a life, and bring the rest of them over here, when possible. In that regards, perhaps this cheating works for them.

      --
      This is my footer. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    13. Re:cultures AND pressures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Furthermore, not all cultures despise cheating as much as Western culture.

      The Western culture does not despite cheating at all.

      We despise "getting caught". Those who are not caught are admired as a successful businessman, politician, banker, music or movies executive - you name it. Those who donate 0.5% of their income (to a foundation they control) are even admired for their altruism.

    14. Re:cultures AND pressures by Ecuador · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That reminds me my CS grad school. There was a large percentage of Indian students and I found that regardless if they were good or bad (obviously there were both kinds) their defining characteristic was that they stuck together. When they were TA's (quite common) there were some weird things going on that the Professors were oblivious of. For example, I had a homework that involved storing some flight data on a db2 database, then a gui front-end that allowed you to select from/to locations and gave you the flight sequence that would make your trip. The specification gave 2-3 queries that you should test your solution on. Well, I got 95% for an error that was sort of cosmetic, i.e. not part of the algorithm used. I did not like it and I wondered how the TA graded the rest of the class. As luck would have it, he was one of the students that did not know what "your home directory is world readable by default" means and I got the spreadsheet with the results. Most of the Indians had 100%. I found one girl of those 100% who both had her home dir readable, and had her homework in there. To my amazement her homework involved a gui with HARDCODED results for the 2-3 "test queries"! No sql queries, nothing!
      An even better story took place a year after I graduated. An Indian guy was trying to cheat during the midterm and the professor warned him. He tried to cheat at the final again and the professor told him "you are getting an F, I already warned you". So the guy responds "but what about all the guys that submitted the same project?". Haha, the professor looked at the projects which were graded by his Indian TA and half of them (belonging to the Indian students) were the same! It had never occurred to the Professors what was going on. Well, the students got away with just an F (well it could screw their funding though).
      Again, I am not saying that Indians are bad, they have more or less the same variety as Americans, Europeans etc, the problem is that by sticking together so much and considering that "natural", you really have a hard time weeding out the good from the bad.

      --
      Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
    15. Re:cultures AND pressures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When my Dad taught at a school in Africa they were a bit less subtle about cheating. In the exam they would put a knife on their desk, the teachers did not interfere. One time at this school the students got annoyed over some issue (I think it was something to do with food), it got so bad that the army was called in to handle the situation.

    16. Re:cultures AND pressures by Dravik · · Score: 1

      Having this semesters test is cheating. Having last semesters test just tells you what to think about. No half way decent professor gives the same test repeatedly. Looking at previous tests tells you things like, "this professor like esoteric differential equations". Therefore you know to brush up on all the weird diffs that can be thrown at you. No copying, but plenty of preparation.

      --
      The purpose of language is communication, If the idea is clear the grammar ain't important
    17. Re:cultures AND pressures by electrosoccertux · · Score: 1

      My professor openly trained students to pass the exam EVERY DAY for A WHOLE SEMESTER at 10am for 1hr! The nerve of the guy! Somehow he's been doing it for a living, too.

    18. Re:cultures AND pressures by CmdrPorno · · Score: 1

      "First remember that foreign students pay FAR more than we do to go to US schools."

      Possibly if you consider the currency exchange rates and the economic resources of the countries they come from. But, at my undergraduate university, foreign students paid in-state tuition.

      --
      Sent from my iPhone
    19. Re:cultures AND pressures by Lord+Ender · · Score: 1

      You can't learn to compose algorithms by copy-pasting and tweaking parameters.

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    20. Re:cultures AND pressures by Doctor+Faustus · · Score: 1

      Again, I am not saying that Indians are bad, they have more or less the same variety as Americans, Europeans etc, the problem is that by sticking together so much and considering that "natural", you really have a hard time weeding out the good from the bad.

      Sounds like the police.

    21. Re:cultures AND pressures by Ecuador · · Score: 1

      Police as in law enforcement or the band?
      Let me give you another anecdote from my experience to see what I mean. I was at a job fair accepting applications for a graduate assistant position. I was supposed to screen the best applicants and give their resumes & contact info to my boss. He had told me he wanted to interview himself up to 10 applicants.
      So, I got over 10 almost identical resumes from Indian students. Not in layout, but in content. It seems that ALL of them had 98% or higher in their undergrad (mostly IIT), ALL of them had won a math Olympiad or two in some place I never heard (different each time of course) and ALL of them had great work experience in "leading" Indian companies doing amazing stuff there. How could I choose some of them over the others to suggest to my boss? Ok, if I sat and had a regular interview with them I could tell, but by talking to them a couple of minutes each about what they are doing etc and reading their resumes they seemed too similar.
      In the end, I told my assistant it was either all in or all out and since we could not fit them all, it was all out. She concurred and later my boss hired, quite interestingly a guy from Ecuador. It was the first Ecuadorian I ever met, as despite my username I have no relation to the country...

      --
      Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
    22. Re:cultures AND pressures by Doctor+Faustus · · Score: 1

      The band hasn't been so good in sticking together.

    23. Re:cultures AND pressures by thingummy · · Score: 1

      Why do you think that studying last year's examination questions is cheating?

  33. Go cheap by grasshoppa · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If your students are having a hard time adapting to cheap, "employer" provided calculators...how do you think they'll handle the real world?

    The only flaw I can find with your plan is to pay for these out pocket, but I understand that's the norm for a lot of college supplies. Of course, given the cost of books, it's not too absurd to expect students to buy the model you specify either.

    --
    Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
    1. Re:Go cheap by Dravik · · Score: 1

      "employer"?? Every employer I've had paid me to be there. If your paying your employer tuition, your doing it wrong.

      --
      The purpose of language is communication, If the idea is clear the grammar ain't important
    2. Re:Go cheap by JWSmythe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You get a calculator? All I've had on my desk for many years has been the calc program on my computer.

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    3. Re:Go cheap by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 1

      Hah, we have to use bc and walk uphill through the snow both ways to the terminal to use it.

      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
  34. Paint the lecture halls with radio-blocking paint by davidwr · · Score: 1

    For classes where every student can be trusted:

    Announce before the drop date that using networking during exams is unethical and you trust them to abide by university ethics.

    For other classes:

    Get the university to paint a room or two in each classroom building with WiFi- and cell-phone-blocking paint. You'll have to lay new tile and paint the ceilings as well.

    Once that's done run a picocell and hotspot to the room for "normal" use but turn both off during exams and turn on a wifi-jammer.

    If that's too much, then just coat the room with cell-phone-blocking paint and jam the wifi during exams.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  35. Response from recent graduate by VoiceInTheDesert · · Score: 1

    Graphic calculators have no networking capability. Depending on what level of physics you're teaching though, some of TI series calculators can do an entire physics test for you...no knowledge or memory required other than memorizing what buttons to push. If you're doing into level stuff, a simple calculator should be fine. If you're doing more advanced stuff, you can allow more powerful calculators, but be aware that most common functions are built into such devices and your tests should reflect this (IE: make them apply a formula, interpret a word problem, etc rather than just solve equations or the only thing you're testing is the ability of the student to push buttons).

    1. Re:Response from recent graduate by Cwix · · Score: 1

      Graphic calculators have no networking capability.

      That didnt stop some pretty smart students.

      http://sami.ticalc.org/irlink/e_intro.htm

      --
      You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
    2. Re:Response from recent graduate by toddestan · · Score: 1

      It should also be noted that some HP's have IR capability built in. Some also have RS232 (with a non-standard connector). With the right cable it's not hard to get them on the internet, though they aren't powerful enough to do much more than telnet.

  36. A Spark Gap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A good, continuous AC spark should throw random noise into just about every radio band, effective jamming any wireless signal from getting in. Problem solved, along with a nice physics demonstration. You could also line the walls with aluminum foil, creating a Faraday Cage, and squash the signals that way. Or do both!

    1. Re:A Spark Gap by biryokumaru · · Score: 1

      The obvious solution is random AC sparks between the floor and ceiling.

      --
      When you're afraid to download music illegally in your own home, then the terrorists have won!
    2. Re:A Spark Gap by tuxicle · · Score: 1

      To say nothing of the "mad scientist" look a Jacob's Ladder would impart to the exam setting.

    3. Re:A Spark Gap by Vegemeister · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, in addition to disrupting everything from DC to daylight, that plan would also disrupt the concentration of the students.

  37. Make it easier to think than to cheat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The way I handle this is putting a lot of problems on the exam. It makes the average score tend to be low (although there are always a few percent that get them all right). But, it spreads out the remainder. I curve the exam to compensate for that.

    Students that try to cheat by digging up answers or asking friends will simply run out of time and score very poorly. It is inefficient to cheat.

    1. Re:Make it easier to think than to cheat by shtrom · · Score: 1

      The way I handle this is putting a lot of problems on the exam. It makes the average score tend to be low (although there are always a few percent that get them all right). But, it spreads out the remainder. I curve the exam to compensate for that.

      Though I've never been in the position where I had to write exams yet, and it's been a long time I've passed any, I recently starting thinking that such an approach would be tho only valid way to assess an exam.

      If you make the exam big enough that nobody can solve it entirely, you actually have a full scaling of each student's ability, and you can accurately tell who performed best.

      A couple of problem should be solved though, and sanity checks should be introduced for this system to be viable. Bad students will end up literally HATING the best for bringing them down. I suppose a non-linear scale (log?) should be used to convert students' performance back into grades. Also, in a particularly bad class, all student may perform horribly bad, but one of them, being slightly better, would end up getting the highest mark regardless.

      That said, I have to counterbalance this point by remembering how pleasing it was to finish a 3-hours exam an hour in advance and leave the room early to go slack off somewhere else. Also, finishing early gives you time to read over and check all your answers again, hunting for obvious mistakes.

      Thus, I suppose this technique may be interesting to try out on larger scales, but it has pro and cons (which I just realised).

    2. Re:Make it easier to think than to cheat by ejtttje · · Score: 1

      A exceedingly long test puts too much emphasis on speed. Some people can race through, some people like to be methodical and double check things... I'm not sure your grading mechanism should reward one versus the other. I don't think GP's claim that cheating is slower holds water either, for many people it'll be much faster to glance at their neighbors' solution than to figure it out from scratch. So you might wind up punishing the wrong people if that is part of your motivation.

      My suggestion would be to include some tricky problems to spread out the curve. Not reading comprehension tricks, students will just complain about the exam being poorly worded, I mean problems that require combining approaches or particular insight into the material. Perhaps look at later courses for inspiration.

  38. Some advice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    1) Give the students different exams. That's done frequently at several universities (at least in Canada). The questions remain the same but alter the number from say 2.5 to 7.3. Compose say 3 exams and alternate who you give them too.

    2) Weigh the assignments more. Or give them enough assignments such that they don't need to cheat. Or a combo of the two. If you can't kill the material, you're doing too much.

    3) Ultimately, if you want to know if a student knows a subject, you ask them things on a private interview. Now doing this for each student is time consuming, but it's ultimately the best way.

    4) Just relax. Tell them they aren't allowed to network with each other or to their mainframe, and to do otherwise is cheating. Students are in the course cause they want to learn the material. Barring required courses which are dead simple anyway.

    Tip: You should also photocopy all your exams when you they get turned in. Or at least photocopy the ones that complain about marks in their assignments. That eliminates the old tied and true method of changing what you wrote after the exam, and then showing the prof.

    Tip: Don't leave your studens assignments outside your office to be picked up. Savey D students will pick out the A students of the next year, so that when they take the following course, they have the assignment completed already.

    Tip: Give the assignment out, AND give the answer solution to them, at the same time. Yes they could copy it straight out, but students don't tend to do that, they work it out, then look at the solution if they don't know. They learn more. Even if they do just copy, they don't not do it. They learn more than not doing it, and the tudents that reallly want to learn, do it themselves anyway.

    Tip: Let them network. If your in a real world engineering company and you don't know something. You had better go ask or consult something that does. To do otherwise would mean you're fired. Guessing in the real world is horrendus, people depend upon this being right.

  39. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by quanticle · · Score: 1

    Those jamming devices are illegal and if caught, you will get in serious trouble for using them. The trouble is that its very hard to localize the effects of a jammer - either its too weak and it doesn't cover the ends of the classroom or (more likely) its too strong and it spills over into neighboring areas. This has public safety implications, and, as such, use of wireless jamming devices is frowned upon by the FCC and law enforcement.

    --
    We all know what to do, but we don't know how to get re-elected once we have done it
  40. Slide Rules ONLY!!! by Gim+Tom · · Score: 1
    Of course you might have trouble finding anyone who knows how to use one any more!

    Really, a very cheep basic calculator with just add, subtract, multiply, divide and maybe square root should be enough for an intro physics class. You can sometimes find them for $1 at dollar stores! If there are trig functions involved you could supply a version of a trig table with selected functions and values. I know I sure didn't have any more than that available 40+ years ago and my trusty log log duplex decitrig.

    Of course if you could borrow a nice wide band spectrum analyzer you could get a base line for signal strength and then watch for a big spike during the test! A directional antenna could let you home in on the culprit too!

  41. Non-calculators by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The student that uses her ipod as a dictionary needs to contact her support office for some better advice.

  42. I suspect you missed, networking - collaboration by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's not that they may be doing research on the fly, but that they may not be giving answers to the exam that are not theirs.

    An iPhone with camera and a confederate (TA with financial or other need) on the outside can get the whole test, an unscrupulous group with a shared network and compatible devices may as well be sitting around a single table doing the test.

    I agree that having them show the work is probably the best option, but in some of the larger courses, it's not practical for the teacher to really read every derivation.

    As for those who say that calculators should not be necessary for tests, when did you last take a college level physics course?

  43. No rules. by MikeFM · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Just let them use whatever they want. However they want to do it it's up to them to get the most they can from their education. It's not educators jobs to be babysitters. Besides we'll have access to these devices on the job so why not in school? I remember teachers saying we couldn't use a calculator because we won't always have a calculator on us in real life. Yeah right - I've had an iTouch on me every day for years and before that a cellphone which had a calculator for many more years. In case of Armageddon I may be screwed but on the job I'm fine

    --
    At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
    1. Re:No rules. by Superdarion · · Score: 1

      Wait, what? So, let them glide through college and by that destroy the very little value a title has nowadays.

      I mean seriously, why not just sell the titles and be done with it? If you're going to allow any type of cheating (which once allowed wouldn't be cheating) during college you just make it worthless to go there when it comes to paperwork. Sure, "you learn if you want", but then going to college would be worth nothing, so why even bother? Let's go back to learning trades directly to the village smith.

      And you're thinking a calculator is the worst they can do. Well you're very shortsighted. The calculator is the least of your worries if you're the teacher. With today's technology you could have a fucking videocall with your cellphone where you can show someone else your exam and they can give you the answers, word by word. You can take a picture of the exam, send it thru email or MMS to a more knowledgeable friend who can then email you back the answers and you just copy them from your device.

      It's not about babysitting but about making those titles mean something.

      Give them freedom and they won't even learn the bare minimum.

    2. Re:No rules. by cbhacking · · Score: 1

      It you actually have to pull out a calculator (of whatever type) to compute a 15% tip, there's something drastically wrong with your basic mathematical capability. If you can't tell that the supermarket clerk overchanged you by $20 without manually adding everything up on your won device, you're going to get screwed pretty badly in life in general. School is about education. Math and physics classes are about learning math and physics, not about learning how to solve the problems on a math or physics test. If you can't solve a problem without advanced "do it for you" computational aids, you've not learned the material and might as well have never taken the class.

      Besides, your calculator example is a poor one. Even if you do always have access to a calculator, any decently designed university-level test will require knowledge that even a graphing calculator can't provide directly. Thus the statement that calculators are allowed on tests - what isn't allowed is any device where you can IM your buddy and ask for help, or plug a question into Wolfram Alpha and see what it tells you.

      Most relevantly, though, this is a school and students are presumably determined to have been successful or not based on their grades. Even if grades aren't curved, a student who deservedly earns an A- on their own merits looks a lot worse if everybody else cheats their way to a full A by taking advantage of the skills of just a few people without actually understanding the stuff at all.

      --
      There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
    3. Re:No rules. by MikeFM · · Score: 1

      I've yet to see a college test that has any meaning to if the knowledge itself is understood. Probably this is partly because college is a poor way to learn most subjects and partly because educators want to hide the fact that their students aren't learning any useful material. Of the people I know with, or without, college degrees the people that are self learners know their stuff and those that aren't don't know it regardless of what degree they may hold or what grades they got. (True of science, engineering, med, economics, business, and marketing people I know at least. Maybe not programs like English or History.)

      A work environment is often more educational because you have to really see all the angles and how things work, or more often don't, over time. You have senior employees that mentor you. School should be like that but I've yet to see one that was. Instead it's all about working your way through an ineffective lesson plan and passing tests that evaluate nothing more than taking tests. Using a calculator, book, notes, computer, or buddy or not is meaningless compared to the complete uselessness of the entire system. The dummies schools crank out in droves completely devalues the job market.

      You're better off reading books and working on your own projects than going to college. If you can't learn on your own college isn't going to help you.

      --
      At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
  44. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by Yvan256 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Whatever you do, remember what happens when you try to jam electronic devices.

  45. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by NormalVisual · · Score: 1

    I would suggest first reading up on 47 USC in general, and then come back and talk to us about the "permit applications and waivers" that you saw mentioned in an uncited paragraph on Wiki. Hint: there's a distinction between "jamming" and "blocking".

    --
    Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
  46. iPad has wireless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In other words, it is networked.

  47. Seriously? by sabre307 · · Score: 1

    Have you read /. before? Most of the people on here ARE your students who would use the WiFi to cheat on the exam. Not that they couldn't ace the exam on most days, but they typically stay up too late the night before reading /. and don't get the requisite amount of sleep!

    --
    My software never has bugs.
    It just develops random features.
  48. Just do what you get paid to do... by Simonetta · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Just do what you get paid to do. You get paid to teach people physics. Everything else is just horseshit designed to distract you from your duties. Just teach people physics. That is what people are paying you to do. So just do it.

    If they want to use electronic calculators, let them. Until your Korean-teaching ability is better than your physics-teaching ability, don't hassle people for using electronic dictionaries.

    Institutions of higher learning put far too much emphasis on grades and ratings and far too less on what they are being paid to do: impart advanced knowledge.

    If you are worried that your students are using electronic devices to 'hussle' you into getting a better grade, then you are teaching them at too low a level. Make your curriculum more advanced and go faster in your lectures. The people who are seriously interested in what you do, i.e. the ones who are actually spending time with you to learn physics, will keep up. The rest will go do something more interesting to them.

      Be serious; you're a teacher, so just fucking teach and stop bitching about people's calculators.

    1. Re:Just do what you get paid to do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't be an asshole. He's trying to prevent illicit collaboration - like using a networked device to feed problems to a smarter friend offsite who will send back the answer. And if you think that's ok - well, why. Do you think they're called "tests?"

  49. ipod as a dictionary? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    dont they yanno....have books that do that? I think they are call dictionaries..

  50. Take a page from the ETS. by wickerprints · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Look toward standardized testing practices for how to conduct tests in a rigorous and fair manner. Quite simply, the rules and expectations for the course should be clearly stated at the outset. Don't wait until the exams come around to drop the bomb. Tell them that you expect them to use a calculator that is on an approved list. No other electronic devices will be permitted. All other possessions not explicitly allowed must be placed at the front of the room, and any mobile devices must be turned OFF. No "vibrate." Watches are permitted but cannot have an alarm function. If they need translation, that's too bad; the ETS does not offer to administer mathematics tests in the language of the examinee's choosing. This is a college level course, with lectures in English. You don't provide lecture notes in twenty languages. It is the student's responsibility to become sufficiently proficient in the English language in order to continue their studies. That may put them at a disadvantage, but we don't try to equalize the playing field for someone who hasn't learned calculus.

    Education necessarily requires that some students have to work harder--sometimes, much harder--than others to achieve the same proficiency level as others. That is not being unfair, that is just the way life is.

    1. Re:Take a page from the ETS. by Kevin+Stevens · · Score: 1

      Seriously- this. A short list of approved calculators. Should solve the problem. If you want to be really nice, maybe scrum up some of the departmental budget to buy some cheapo 4 function calculators for use during the test for those who bring in the wrong calculators.

      TI-30's, which were the standard in my high school until we moved on up to the TI-8x's (which are still somehow over $80?! WTF?!) are about $10 and have all the functionality one could feasibly want (trig functions, exponents, roots, some basic stats, fractions, degrees/radians. Just require them for the course. The $10 will be a mere rounding error compared to their hideously expensive textbooks.

  51. College Policy? by dcollins · · Score: 2, Informative

    Community-college math instructor here (CUNY). The first thing I'd ask is: What's the policy (if any) at the college level? Here I'm supported by an official, clear-cut policy at the college level: all electronic communication/media devices have to be shut off and put away while in a classroom (a policy I enforce strictly during tests).

    So basically that means dedicated calculators and nothing else -- square root function required minimum in my stats class. I think that's an inexpensive requirement, they're like $1 at Staples or something? Graphing calculators okay for the rare student who has one. The few students with electronic dictionaries I see are small dedicated devices for that, and that's allowed. But phones as calculators, totally prohibited; iPod media player as calculator (or anything), totally prohibited. Not absolutely foolproof, but pretty clear to me.

    --
    We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
    1. Re:College Policy? by Jeeeb · · Score: 1

      Electronic dictionaries for a long time have allowed note taking and modern dictionaries although small and dedicated are also often complete personal computers with wi-fi connectivity. My university had a policy of completely banning electronic dictionaries. Students could use a paper dictionary and that's it.

      Any student who's taking regular classes at a university (or college in the States) should have passed an English test as part of their entry requirements. If their English is not up to scratch they should also have spent time doing supplementary study at an English college. I took regularly classes at a university in a country where I didn't speak the language natively. In any subject (and especially science subjects) a relatively small number of clearly defined terms will come out again and again in the course of studying the materials. It's hard to imagine how someone could fail to memorise those terms if they've studied properly.

    2. Re:College Policy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about an Honor Code?

    3. Re:College Policy? by definate · · Score: 1

      "Graphing calculators okay for the rare student who has one."

      How poor is your Community College? I don't know a single person in my maths/stats/etc, classes who doesn't have a graphics calculator. You can get graphing calculators pretty cheap these days, with the more expensive ones like the nSpire CAS, still not being that expensive.

      --
      This is my footer. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    4. Re:College Policy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most often, too, universities have honor codes.

      If the honor code states that students will be trustworthy and that you can treat students as trustworthy, do so.

      The psychologists also say that if you make them explicitly write and sign something at the end that says that they followed the rules, they're more likely to do so. You have to let them know at the beginning that they'll need to do it, of course.

      If you don't have an honor code like that, you can always just embrace it, move to an online or electronic test design, and run duplicate-checkers after the fact.

      In my experience, the students who are cheating in the first place aren't the students who are smart/motivated/knowledgable enough to do it well.

    5. Re:College Policy? by dcollins · · Score: 1

      "How poor is your Community College? I don't know a single person in my maths/stats/etc, classes who doesn't have a graphics calculator."

      It has nothing to do with how poor they are. (CUNY is the largest urban university in the U.S. and has generally excellent financial aid.) It's that they're not taking any classes where that's of use; the most common course is a basic algebra class and biology, possibly with introductory statistics, for example.

      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
    6. Re:College Policy? by dcollins · · Score: 1

      "Electronic dictionaries for a long time have allowed note taking and modern dictionaries although small and dedicated are also often complete personal computers with wi-fi connectivity. My university had a policy of completely banning electronic dictionaries. Students could use a paper dictionary and that's it."

      That's a good tip, I'll probably start doing that myself now. Thanks.

      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
  52. Change the way you test by kawabago · · Score: 1

    Design an exam that tests the understanding of the students instead of specific knowledge. To go a step further make the student choose some factor that will make each exam unique so they can't collaborate to solve one problem.

  53. Re:Also by gandhi_2 · · Score: 0, Troll

    As my drill sergeant told me many years ago, "If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying. And if you get caught, you weren't trying hard enough."

    Cheating is a part of all cultures.

  54. wow.... by metalmaster · · Score: 0, Troll

    I cannot believe the "english only" vibe of this crowd. Its rather harsh considering there's no official language of the US. I cant speak for private universities, but for any state and or federally funded school culture shouldnt be offended or punished.

    Anyways, as far as the topic is concerned, I would consider making the method part of the correct answer. After all, if the problem is complex enough or requires the use of a particular theory of equation Its not going to come from the top of your head. Googling a question or using an online calculator might give you an answer, but I have seen very few that will break down the process for you. If there are questions for which the answers can be regurgitated, set an appropriate timeline. Students may find some of the answers through references, but they wouldnt have time to look up everything. As someone mentioned previously, I dont know many jobs that require you to have all the answers without having reference materials

    1. Re:wow.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The official language of the US is irrelevant. The course is taught in English. That means the lectures, as well as the exams are taught in English as well. Language X won't fly for your answers unless, of course, X=English.

    2. Re:wow.... by Superdarion · · Score: 1

      Googling a problem ain't the answer. I'm sure I can find someone that for fifty bucks will be sitting in front of his/her computer waiting for me to email them that picture of the exam I took with my phone, solve the exam, take a picture of the solutions and sending them back to me.

      Sure it's cumbersome, but it's a hell of a lot easier than actually learning physics. Besides, why bother with all that learning? All I want to be is a college professor! Rinse and repeat ad infinitum.

    3. Re:wow.... by metalmaster · · Score: 1

      That wasnt so much a solution to this ask post, rather it was a response to the stigma over this discussion. I understand that students need a proficient understanding of English, but "Youre SOL if you dont know our language" shouldnt be a blanket answer

    4. Re:wow.... by cbhacking · · Score: 1

      English is not a culture, it's a skill. It is a skill which is required to graduate from a public school in most states. It is a skill which is required (as determined by a TOEFL score) for admission to most universities. It is not an official language of the USA, but is the de-facto standard language of not only this country but much of the international community (emphasis on international - they can speak whatever they like with their own colleagues, but in areas of economics or science with people from other countries it is the generally used language even if it is native to neither). Even non-English-speaking-country universities typically require knowledge of English, and may even teach science or engineering classes in it.

      If a student can not understand the language a class is taught it, they should not be taking that class. They could take a class that is taught in their native tongue (this may require leaving the country, but it is an option) or they can defer taking that class until they are sufficiently skilled in the language used for instruction. It is not the responsibility of the professor to adapt their class to people who are attempting to take it without the prerequisite knowledge (a solid understanding of the language it is taught in certainly being a prerequisite), nor is it the responsibility of the school (publicly funded or otherwise) to ensure that students can take classes in any language they desire. Some schools will opt to do so for certain languages, and for things like instruction to deaf students a sign language translator is a reasonable accommodation, but if you cannot read written English you have no more business taking a class where English is the language of instruction than I do taking a class taught in Arabic.

      --
      There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
    5. Re:wow.... by metalmaster · · Score: 1

      I understand your view, but i know some foreign students who have actively tried to grasp the course material and I have known dumbasses who sit through the class collecting a puddle of drool on the desktop

      I'd rather see an interested foreigner with struggle a bit with the language barrier than the dumbass whose just taking up space. The use of a deadtree dictionary isnt too much to ask.

      During my time at the local community college science courses were almost always backed up and waitlisted. I knew a guy who was stone walled for entry into science courses, first because of an administrative screw-up due to language barrier issues and then because of the waitlisting. 2 and a half years later he's still trying to get through.

    6. Re:wow.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...and almost no-one reads to the second paragraph before deciding "troll".

      (insert chuntering comment about "kids today" here)

  55. Why do the complicated expensive solution? by sjbe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You can make WiFi unusable, however.

    Technically possible but not practical for economic reasons.

    Or you could alter the classroom so RF cannot enter through the walls or ceiling.

    VERY expensive. Colleges don't really have the funds to justify that, especially when just banning the offending devices is free.

    I suppose convincing the university to alter the classroom in this manner could be difficult, but they could also see the value in having some exam rooms that are essentially faraday cages

    Why not just take the figurative bullets out of the gun (no networked devices allowed) instead of building an expensive figurative bullet proof vest. If they don't need the networked device for the test, there is no reason to allow it in the room in the first place.

    1. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by mysidia · · Score: 1

      VERY expensive. Colleges don't really have the funds to justify that, especially when just banning the offending devices is free.

      I'm not so sure it's that expensive. I've seen countless places where it's been done accidentally, for example, by having a tin roof, that causes there to be zero cell reception.

      Some inexpensive foil wallpaper, metallic paint, or wire mesh all over the place, and effectively, there is no wireless reception.

      They don't need to go buy $100k materials to block out 100%, to make networked devices unusable, some simple blockage and interference are cheap.

      Oh yeah... and banning devices may not be effective. Especially when the non-networked functions of those devices could be beneficial on a test, if people are allowed to use electronic notekeeping aids, they should be allowed to use them (without the networking functions)

    2. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by MrNaz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's not just about preventing WiFi signals from getting in. Remember, the students could also conceivably set up an ad-hoc network to share answers, which is just as much a case of cheating as using Google.

      --
      I hate printers.
    3. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by assertNotNull · · Score: 1

      9 out of 10. I almost took the bait.

    4. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by YoshiDan · · Score: 0

      Why couldn't she have just used an actual damn dictionary? All exams I've been to we were allowed to bring in nothing but pens, pencils and a calculator. Maybe they should ban everything except pre-approved calculators. I don't see why they can't approve a small range of different ones that are in different price ranges.

    5. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by bertoelcon · · Score: 1

      I had a Korean student who was upset and dropped the course when I told her she couldn't use her iPod during an exam — she said she used it as a dictionary.

      And another thing. You should have told her "Welcome to America - learn fuckin' English!" I wouldn't get a degree in Korea and expect not to learn Korean. Fuck, if she was Mexican you'd have powerful lobbies trying to make your college bi-lingual because another word for illegal alien is undocumented Democrat. Koreans in particular and Asians in general are too small a percent of population for those assholes to push an agenda about them, unlike the spics. So she dropped the class. No loss there, Asian chicks usually have small tits anyway.

      You had a point until you were all trollish about it.

      --
      Anything can be found funny, from a certain point of view.
    6. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by sjbe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm not so sure it's that expensive.

      I'm an accountant in my day job. There isn't a single sane department chair or accounting department that would spent a dime making a classroom RF proof to prevent cheating on tests. It's a waste of money and would never make it through the capital budgeting process.

      The alternative (banning the offending devices) is free and requires no capital expenditures.

      Oh yeah... and banning devices may not be effective.

      No effort to prevent cheating is 100% effective. But it has the beauty of being clear, simple, mostly effective and cheap. Get caught with a non-approved device and you fail the test. If I were the teacher they might get hauled in front of a disciplinary committee as well.

      Especially when the non-networked functions of those devices could be beneficial on a test, if people are allowed to use electronic notekeeping aids, they should be allowed to use them (without the networking functions)

      There is never a need to allow networking to test the student's ability to master physics. NEVER. If they have to consult their notes for every question (regardless of format) then they should fail the test because they don't understand the material adequately.

    7. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by dave562 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If they have to consult their notes for every question (regardless of format) then they should fail the test because they don't understand the material adequately.

      That is all well and good, if physics happens to be the only class that a student takes in that semester, and the student's brain has been properly calibrated to just "get" physics. For the rest of the world, notes are a life saver. Show me one real world scenario where notes and resource materials are not made available to employees.

    8. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Asian chicks usually have small tits anyway.

      That is a feature, not a bug.

    9. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just require the students to attend the exam in their birthday suits.

      Unless they're very creative at hiding things... Well, obviously they can't use networked gizmos if they don't have them to begin with. And frankly anyone who does manage to smuggle contraband into the exam room probably deserves to use it.

    10. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by rpresser · · Score: 0

      The distinction between academe and "real life" is made with good reason. No notes for students is not a draconian policy.

    11. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      well, the reason i could see is that i can get a basic scientific calculator on my phone for free, for a few bucks more, I can get a pretty snazzy one. xkcd is right, it's ridiculous that hp calculators still cost so much and have basically not changed. and that holds for other scientific calculators as well. it's really kind of a waste of money compared to a single device which does so much more, including be a calculator. for students trying to stretch every penny, it can be a hardship to have to buy an expensive device that you really just don't need. I think a...more enlightened solution would perhaps be to focus on detection. Require that any devices brought in must have an airplane mode. And then have equipment in place to detect radio signals. Obv a single professor would be unlikely to be able to swing that, but a little portable set or two that profs can check out from the university? It could work.

    12. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by Damase · · Score: 3, Insightful
      --If they have to consult their notes for every question (regardless of format) then they should fail the test because they don't understand the material adequately.

      So, are you saying that if someone cannot remember formulas and other detail type of information then they don't understand the material?

      I disagree. There are many people who grasp very sophisticated concepts and need their "notes" to remember the formulas, etc to handle the math etc.

      Einstein himself failed math, and was quoted as saying "Never commit to memory what you can look up." I doubt very much he would have passed your tests.

      --
      ---- Don't be irreplaceable. If you can't be replaced, you can't be promoted.
    13. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by olyar · · Score: 1

      You can make WiFi unusable, however.

      Technically possible but not practical for economic reasons.

      From what I remember of a recent Steve Jobs announcement, all you have to do is have a room full of reporters using laptops.

      --
      Custom, hands-free Linux installs. Instalinux
    14. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Indeed, at my uni you were only allowed the notes the lecturer specified (2xA4 handwritten, textbook, dictionary etc) and an approved calculator (there was a long list, but mainly stuff without memory/programmability etc).

      Why not just allow notes and dictionaries (physical) and disallow all other equipment. If the student doesn't like it tough shit really. They are after all in (I assume) an English university, so language shouldn't be too much of a problem (especially for more technical subjects).

      Just have a rule that any device "with the CAPABILITY of communication with external sources" is not allowed. You can further specify exceptions to take care of devices which look identical apart from comms ability.

      Basically, you're the lecturer, you decide. Be harsh. Dictionaries are not expensive (at least compared to the amount of money in tuition fees) and even then, it's not as if the language changes every year (like some other textbooks). If I was you, I'd make a deal with the library to reserve X number of dictionaries for the day of your exam so whoever needs one can borrow it for the exam.

      Also : You need to think about what your student is doing - it's a lot easier for someone to type a word and select a match, rather than actually know how a dictionary works. I would assume that someone graduating from a English speaking uni would know the alphabet and how to order words. If they want to not lose time looking stuff up, they should learn the language they are being taught in.

    15. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by mysidia · · Score: 1

      That's true... but how many common portable devices provide you a capability to setup a wireless ad-hoc network with no working wifi or 3G signals, anyways?

      I was suggesting lining the ceiling to make cell reception almost impossible, along with creating interference on the unlicensed frequencies.

      Meaning since you can't jam cell signals, you're left with blocking them.

    16. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by turbidostato · · Score: 0

      "So, are you saying that if someone cannot remember formulas and other detail type of information then they don't understand the material?"

      Yes.

      "I disagree. There are many people who grasp very sophisticated concepts and need their "notes" to remember the formulas, etc to handle the math etc."

      Then they study a bit more and magically they need their notes no more.

      "Einstein himself failed math"

      Einstein himself declared to be quite bad at maths.

    17. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by ksandom · · Score: 1

      Why not just take the figurative bullets out of the gun (no networked devices allowed) instead of building an expensive figurative bullet proof vest. If they don't need the networked device for the test, there is no reason to allow it in the room in the first place

      While you make some good points, you've wandered from the issue.

      It gets tough for me to distinguish networked devices (iPhone? iTouch?) from non-networked ones (calculator? electronic dictionary? iPod?)

      It's not that easy to tell any more. Simply looking at the shell of the device isn't enough to know unless you are very familiar with an extremely wide range of devices. Even the people selling the devices usually aren't familiar with technology which has been off the shelf for a few months. It's simply not reasonable to expect the original poster to be able to tell the difference. He/She has some good ideals here, and it would be nice to come up with a solution. Given the ever expanding functionality of small devices, it may be worth discussing whether it's reasonable to expect to bring your own equipment into an exam in the first place.

      Reality usually isn't as simple as theory.

      --
      Funnyhacks - Wierd, unusual, and fun hacks
    18. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      ... an additional problem:

      This wouldn't stop devices in the room from talking. Mesh or ad-hoc networks with students collaberating over them...

      But I have to say... if they go to such measures you may just be doing something wrong! Nobody would go through such extents for that kind of massively organized cheating.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    19. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by sodul · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      For the rest of the world, notes are a life saver. Show me one real world scenario where notes and resource materials are not made available to employees.

      I'll take the bite: internal transfer interviews. I've experienced both sides of this at 3 different companies where the interviewee is already an employee. We ask 'real world' questions, no notes and resource materials allowed. You asked for 'one'.

    20. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by Almahtar · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not necessarily true. In general it seems like people will work 2x as hard to keep from legitimately working. As long as it isn't "legit", it feels like you're not working. From what I've seen people will work much harder at cheating than they will at legit work.

    21. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 0

      What "good reason" would that be? He brought up a valid point.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    22. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by tsm_sf · · Score: 3, Informative

      The distinction between draconian and "needlessly irritating" is made with good reason. No notes for students tests memory, not comprehension.

      That being said, I don't know why this joker can't just have a few grad students roaming the room proctoring the exam like every other institution does. Combine this with a "one strike and you're really, honestly out" policy and your problem is solved. Make it obvious that failing a class is less of an issue than being kicked out of your school.

      Actually, now that I think about this a bit more, I think a better "ask slashdot" question would be how could you predict the students most likely to deserve an extra amount of "attention" during exams. At a guess I'd say it would be the ones who have inconsistent grades, as opposed to, say, a steady C- GPA. But then I aced the classes I was interested in and failed the ones I wasn't, so maybe it's not a great idea.

      --
      Literalism isn't a form of humor, it's you being irritating.
    23. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by Entropius · · Score: 1

      Why do they need gizmos for their notes?

      I took a graduate-level quantum field theory class last year. Professor gave us one page of notes, hand-written, per exam.

    24. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can make WiFi unusable, however.

      Basement. Need I say more? Most buildings have some room that naturally has bad WIFI reception.

      Or you could alter the classroom so RF cannot enter through the walls or ceiling.

      Basement, or chicken wire the line of sight to the WIFI router/repeater. (chicken wire: aka aluminum screen mesh, aluminum foil - it just has to be grounded metal)

      I suppose convincing the university to alter the classroom in this manner could be difficult, but they could also see the value in having some exam rooms that are essentially faraday cages

      Probably not. Casinos don't have faraday cages, just cameras, and they have the potential to lose money to cheaters. That's probably because cheaters will just find a way around. Instead of using WIFI, they could use IrDA, sound frequencies above 48KHz, some kind of "fake" AC power supply which actually transmits locally using the buildings power wires, etc.

    25. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      For the rest of the world, notes are a life saver.

      I've taken a few examinations where the student was permitted to take in a single sheet of paper. He could write whatever he wanted on it, no matter how big or small. I think this is a good way to go - it forces you to recognise the difference between things you need to actually know and details that are not so easily remembered but are otherwise significant.

      I've done a number of subjects at university where I have been able to throw out the entirety of the semester's notes and retain those single sheets of paper from assessments.

    26. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >VERY expensive. Colleges don't really have the funds to justify that, especially when just banning the offending devices is free.

      Oh please. Poor, poor colleges with their $30,000/year tuition. My college cranked up the tuition drastically while I was there, not because they needed the funds, but because they figured that good colleges were more expensive, and they wanted to have the "feel" of a good college. Marketing bullshit.

      "Colleges don't really have the funds." Snort.

    27. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by tepples · · Score: 0

      Show me one real world scenario where notes and resource materials are not made available to employees.

      Someone else pointed out that surgeons and dental surgeons don't carry notes into the OR.

    28. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by totalcaos · · Score: 1

      in that case a "feature enhancement" request is in order

    29. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by BlitzTech · · Score: 1

      Because for scientists, being able to draw on a large wealth of knowledge without having to look up fundamental principals every time is a hallmark of success in academia. The best, brightest, most revered professors have a near encyclopedic knowledge of a wide variety of semi-related subjects; these are the ones able to take a situation, evaluate it in the context of their lifetime of amassed knowledge, and offer a viewpoint that many graduate students would have taken years to come up with, if ever at all. The ones who constantly have to refer to material make good lab technicians, who are told what to do, but will struggle with any self-directed research project.

      I'm all for systems that punish students for being too lazy to learn the material. This mass infantilization of the university education system degrades the quality of higher education nationally, and I support this professor for making his class difficult. It's nice that some professors still care about actually educating their students.

      Option 3, of course, is to disallow all electronic devices. This will earn you lots of ire, a bad reputation, and probably the wrath of your school, but at least you'll know your top scorers are also good at math...

    30. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by raynet · · Score: 1

      Actually 2.4GHz WIFI is very easy to block, I have couple wireless elcheapo "security" cameras that send analogue PAL video signal over 2.4GHz and they have 4 channel options. Using any of those channels prevents me using WIFI in my house until I switched to use .11N and 5Ghz.

      --
      - Raynet --> .
    31. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

      He said real world scenario. Can you really say interview's aren't contrived situations?

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    32. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by jbuck · · Score: 2, Interesting
      "...a single sheet of paper [with] whatever [you] wanted on it, no matter how big or small..."

      I had a high school physics class like that. I used my Mac LC with an ImageWriter II to print the page in Magenta, then I overprinted a 2nd page in Cyan. I brought the double printed page and a pair of those comic book 3D glasses - one red lens one blue to the test. It worked perfectly except that I couldn't use it! I got a few points credit for creativity and in the end, I had spent so much time creating the note page that the info was burned into my retinas. Well, half on my right retina, half on my left. I did just fine on the test- i think the creativity credit put me at 101%. Good times.

      --
      -whoa, I'm jones'ing for a sig right about now...
    33. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Einstein did not fail math.

      cite

      according to wikipedia, he did fail an entrance exam to Eidgenössische Polytechnische Schule, but scored extremely well in math and science.

      sorry about being pedantic, but this is a pet peeve.

    34. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by NoobixCube · · Score: 1

      Simple, hold the exams in my house. No wireless signals can penetrate its paper-thin walls!

      --
      Admit it. You post strawman arguments as AC so you get modded Insightful for refuting them, rather than Troll
    35. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by Eraesr · · Score: 1

      It is shortsighted though. In many cases, especially with the more scientific classes like maths, chemistry or physics, it's not important that a student knows all the formulas by heart, but that they know how to apply them.

      I'd rather see a student look the formulas up in a book and apply them correctly than having a student know all the formulas by heart but not knowing how to use them.
      After all, in the end, if this student would become a mathmatician/chemist/physicist then he/she will be using those formulas so often they'll be learned by heart in due time anyway.

      In my opinion, high schools and to a lesser extent colleges/universities shouldn't have to only teach factual dry knowledge. IMO it's much better to stimulate the creativity of the student, the general problem solving skills of the student and the ability to use existing knowledge and extrapolate that knowledge to tackle new unfamiliar problems. Next to that learn them to do planning, working in teams and setting up and dealing with work in structured projects.

      Those are far more important things to know than that F(m) = (m * v^2) / r

    36. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by sodul · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty certain he meant "real world" (workplace, career, etc...) versus the "academic world". Interview are indeed part of the "real" workforce world. Unless you are self employed or have very good family connections, I don't think you can get out of going through interviews for any job above say $25/h.

    37. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Show me one real world scenario where notes and resource materials are not made available to employees.

      Someone else pointed out that surgeons and dental surgeons don't carry notes into the OR.

      So next time you visit your dental surgeon ask him if you can have all of those useless books he doesn't need that are lining his office bookshelves. While you're at it ask him if his university exam required him to write out a medical procedure step for step or if it was all theory and he did a big practical section in another part of his course.

      I have never seen a university exam ask me a question of how to specifically perform a procedure step for step. Likewise I don't know any dental surgeon who has been let loose in an OR without having done a procedure with practical guidance many times before. Don't confuse practical learning and assessment with theoretical learning and assessment.

      I don't want a HV electrician reading his notes while doing live wire connections with one hand.
      I don't want a HV electrical engineer to design a grid without having access to computers and textbooks.

      Both are losing propositions in the modern world.

    38. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by rpresser · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      I think there's a line to be drawn; and the place to draw that line is at the beginning of the 4-year undergraduate degree classes. Would you let a student in a German (language) class have access to a vocabulary list for a quiz on the poems of Goethe? Or a student in a political science class have access to a detailed history of the Thirty Years War for an examination on European interactions? Why should physical sciences and math courses be different? There's a few hundred ccs of grey and white matter between the student's ears. Let him USE THEM.

    39. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Show me one real world scenario where notes and resource materials are not made available to employees.

      Someone else pointed out that surgeons and dental surgeons don't carry notes into the OR.

      If you've honestly never heard of a surgeon consulting written material in the middle of a procedure, all I can say is thank god you aren't one.

    40. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      > Technically possible but not practical for economic reasons.

      Really?

      Last time I checked, you could setup hostapd on OpenBSD using a $50 Linksys PCI WLAN adapter to automatically spam disassociate packets to *anything* that the WLAN adapter receives while in RFMON mode.

      I knew a guy who did this once in his own house to keep his neighbours unencrypted signal dead. His BSD router would spam disassoc to anything that wasn't part of his own WLAN network. I'm told that this doesn't nuke the signal completely, but it does make it borderline impossible to push any data through the network at all.

      It wouldn't be hard to buy and setup a small settop box to automatically do this. You'd just have to drag it into the room and plug the damned thing in then turn it on. Hostapd will take care of spamming disassoc to anything it finds. Theoretically, this is still all on the 802.11A/B/G/N spec, it's not like you're physically jamming the radio frequencies- so it should be legal.

      -AC

    41. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm. I don't get how the red and blue note pages were going to be helpful more than the single page with just black printing.

    42. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by hairyfeet · · Score: 2, Interesting

      No shit. I worked with a guy at my last shop that used to laugh about his cheapskate roomie. The guy spent hours grinding pennies so they would pass for dimes in the coke machines and toll booths. it never occurred to this brain trust he was wasting a hell of a lot more time than it was worth just to get his 'fake dimes" but he did it. I've seen guy go through all kinds of bullshit to get out of work, even knew a girl that screwed her teacher just to get out of taking the class. Never underestimate the power of lazy or cheap, ever.

      On the other hand one has to make allowances for those with real needs. I was always allowed to carry a laptop into class because I got my right wrist smashed all to hell when I was 16 in a bad bike wreck. I can still play bass guitar as long as I only use my first two fingers on that hand to pluck, but if I hold a pen or pencil more than a few minutes the circulation quits and it swells like a balloon. But then again I also had my pride and was happy to have any teacher test me verbally without the laptop if they had any doubts.

      So maybe the key is a non tech approach like my old VB teacher used to do? When he thought someone might be cheating he'd ask them a few basic questions and it really didn't take much to find out who knew what they were doing and who was just copypasta. If they are far enough along to be taking tests surely answering a couple of questions verbally wouldn't be too difficult if there was any doubt.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    43. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by martyros · · Score: 1

      If they don't need the networked device for the test, there is no reason to allow it in the room in the first place.

      Uum, did you read the summary? He has students who:

      • Have graphing calculators on their "networked device" (e.g., an iPhone app)
      • Have foreign language dictionaries on their "networked device" (e.g., an iPhone app)

      The goal of the test is to see if they can get the right answer to the physic problem, not test their English ability or how fast they can figure out how to use a different graphing calculator.

      --

      TCP: Why the Internet is full of SYN.

    44. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by TheTurtlesMoves · · Score: 1

      Yes they do. In NZ we have a lot of Asian students. Its just not wrong in their culture if you don't get caught. I was offered 5000NZD to take someone elses exam, they already had forged id's. There was nothing wrong with the teaching.

      You can't keep blaming the teacher for everything.

      --
      The Grey Goo disaster happened 3 billion years ago. This rock is covered in self replicating machines!
    45. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by takev · · Score: 1

      When you are dyslexic it is very hard to remember information like telephone numbers, list of words or formulas. Luckily technical schools mostly allow you to bring a formula book with you on exams.

      However on the occasion I forgot to bring a book, I had to recreate the formulas. Which took more time to figure out, but I often got more points because the teacher read the notes and thus knows I understand the material. But in that particular school the teachers are more interested in if you know how to solve the problem than if you got the correct answer (I once had every answer wrong on a test and I still got an 8 because they way I got to the answer was different (not how it was thought) and correct).

    46. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by FTWinston · · Score: 1

      If they have to consult their notes for every question (regardless of format) then they should fail the test because they don't understand the material adequately.

      Ha! I sat several classes that used open-book exams, particularly at 4th and 5th year level (my course was a Physics MSci) - and the lecturers were clear from the outset that they were open book because they wanted you to understand the subject rather than just memorize relevant equations. Sure I sat more closed-book than open-book exams, but by and large the open-book exams were only used where it seemed appropriate to do so.

      Also, when the course material is a book a couple of inches thick, it kinda becomes a herculean task to memorize the whole thing as well as develop a sufficient understanding of the material - while preparing for half a dozen other exams also.

      The question wasn't whether or not an open book exam was a good idea. You don't know what material the OP is teaching, while the OP does. The question was about blocking wireless. If turning on a "leaky" microwave oven or a 2.4GHz transmitter isn't an option, I'd recommend laying chicken wire over the walls, ceilings, doors and windows. And unplugging the room's wireless AP.

    47. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      The goal of the test is to see if they can get the right answer to the physic problem, not test their English ability or how fast they can figure out how to use a different graphing calculator.

      When you say "they", do you mean:

      - each of them as an individual
      - all of them collectively, working as a group
      - everyone in the world

      Think about it, and maybe then you'll see what the problem is.

      Perhaps each student should be allowed one chance to phone a friend or ask the audience.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    48. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by martyros · · Score: 1

      Think about it, and maybe then you'll see what the problem is.

      Yes, that's one half of the dilemma. If you just look at that half, the answer is clear: don't allow networked devices. That's what GGP suggested.

      However, GGP isn't helping solve the dilemma, because he left out the other half -- OP has students who rely on their "networked device" for language help and/or calculation. Disallowing them causes other problems. OP is looking for advice to solve both problems at once.

      --

      TCP: Why the Internet is full of SYN.

    49. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by farnz · · Score: 1

      I don't see why the German language student shouldn't have access to the vocab list, or the political science student shouldn't have access to the detailed history of the Thirty Years War. If the exam questions are good (which was the case for the exams I took at undergraduate level), using your vocab list or your detailed history costs you time that you need to provide a high scoring answer.

      If you have to check something in the history to ensure that you're not confusing the Thirty Years War with the Hundred Years War, or check the vocab list to ensure that you've correctly understood one or two words, you don't lose much time, and can give a strong answer based on your comprehension of the subject. If you have to check every word in the vocab list, or read the history during the exam to understand the subject, you're not going to have time to answer the questions properly. In short, letting them have the vocab list, the history, the notes on electronic circuits isn't a bad thing - it forces the student to demonstrate comprehension and understanding, rather than recall of arbitrary facts.

    50. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by MRe_nl · · Score: 1

      "surgeons and dental surgeons don't carry notes into the OR"
      That's because the O.R.-assistant is carrying the notes for them.
      On a more serious note, a basketful of data is wheeled into the OR (digitally or on paper)
      for every procedure and patient.

      --
      "Kill 'em all and let Root sort 'em out"
    51. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by realityimpaired · · Score: 1

      Y'know, I don't think I ever used a calculator in any of the math courses I took at Uni. I wasn't a math major, but I did take Calculus and Linear Algebra up to 3rd year as electives. Simply didn't need a calculator.

      A smart prof can easily design an exam or a quiz in such a way that you don't need an electronic device to do any of the work... in physics especially: you're not testing their ability to do math, you're testing their understanding of the course material. That can be done using nice round numbers that you can do mental arithmetic with, in which case banning anything electronic would be harmless.

      And to the student who threw a fit and dropped a course because she was using her ipod as a dictionary? Remind her that they had dictionaries long before they had electronic devices for them. It's called a book. Printed word. Amazingly enough, a good printed dictionary is not only cheaper than an electronic dictionary, the batteries last longer.

    52. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Actually you can make a cheap wifi "jammer" out of a router running some flavour of Linux. It's called a de-auth attack, google it.

      Since you are only looking at once classroom though it might be easier to just watch your students to make sure they don't cheat.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    53. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by Mysticalfruit · · Score: 1

      The hard question is going to be when a student comes in with an iPad and says "I use this as my notebook...".

      One option is to have the student come up and demonstrate to you that the wireless is turned off.

      Another option is to tell all the students that come test day, they need printed notes and then dramatically plot a 4 function calculator on the table and say "and this is what you're allowed... show up with anything else and I'll fail you, and I'm not joking!"

      --
      Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
    54. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by imakemusic · · Score: 1

      You superimpose the two colours on top of each other - literally writing one on top of the other. To the naked eye it will just be a mess but by using a coloured filter you can filter out one set and by using a different colour filter you can filter out the other set. You effectively get twice as much writing on the same size piece of paper.

      --
      Brain surgery - it's not rocket science!
    55. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by alexandre_ganso · · Score: 1

      You can make WiFi unusable, however.

      Technically possible but not practical for economic reasons.

      How removing the network cable from the back of a pair of nearby wifi routers can be unpractical for economic reasons? The wifi network is still there, but leads to nowhere. It's even better than jamming the signal.

    56. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by Anonymous+Cowpat · · Score: 1

      because he got two pages of notes out of a single sheet of paper - one to be read using the blue lens, and one to be read with the red lens.

      --
      FGD 135
    57. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by Eraesr · · Score: 1

      Well, to be honest, while I agree that German or history classes shouldn't be different than mathematics or physics, I have the opposite opinion of you.

      When the exam isn't about mastering the German language itself, but about Goethe's work, then why hinder students by re-enforcing that language barrier? The same goes for history. I don't think that it's strictly necessary for a student to know that the Berlin wall fell on October 3, but if they understand the events leading up to the construction of the wall, what the wall ment to the people in Germany, Europe, Englang, US and Russia and what led to it's destruction then those are far more important aspects to know than just the little fact that it happened to be the 3rd day in October when it fell.

      That date can easily be retrieved from an open book. Or Wikipedia. During a test, however, it is impossible to come to a complete understanding of the scenario by reading a book. There's simply not enough time for that.

      Having said that, languages may be an odd example because when learning English or French verbs, the skill is in knowing those words by heart. Having a dictionary in an exam that's purely about translation might defeat the purpose a bit, but those usually aren't part of a finals exam.

      I think a lot of teachers are still very traditional in wanting to teach facts rather than insights. To reemphasize, let me put it this way: I thinkt it's both far more valuable and interesting for both student and teacher if the two can have a discussion about the shift in political systems of Russia during pre- and post Soviet union times than that a student can recite the events surrounding the fall of the Soviet Union.

    58. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by yakovlev · · Score: 1

      The reason math and science classes are different is because they have a large component of learning how to DO something.

      Foreign languages and, to a lesser extent, history are some of the few college areas that at the undergraduate college level are still about memorization. Undergraduate foreign language courses are almost pure memorization. "What is pictured?" and "conjugate this verb," are both memorization questions. "If Alice has 12 coins and together Alice and Bob have 30 coins, how many coins does Bob have?" is a skill question.

      Many college-level English courses do allow you to bring the book you've been studying into the exam. They may also let you bring your notes into the exam (but not Cliff Notes.) This is because "In The Scarlet Letter, analyze the priest's motivation for revealing himself" is an analysis problem, and not a memorization problem.

      History exams tend to lie somewhere in-between, but often the text and notes are allowed, with the realization that while all students may be able to get the memorization problems, ill-prepared students will do a poor job and have insufficient time to adequately complete the analysis problems.

    59. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by ciggieposeur · · Score: 1

      If they have to consult their notes for every question (regardless of format) then they should fail the test because they don't understand the material adequately.

      You are so clearly not an engineer.

      A very common "easy" question in thermodynamics is to calculate some value -- say fugacity -- using three different methods. Each method means one main complex equation plus 2-5 supporting equations, and a single character off any one of them will dramatically change the answer. Oh, and applying each equation might mean looking up 4 different constants for the substance of interest. Question 1 is only worth 20% btw.

      The you get to question 2 which requires interpolating between data points from six sets of tables. ...repeat for the next three questions...

      And when you are taking a regular course load you've got 4 such exams every month, each taking 2-3 hours. As another engineer put it to me, EVERY engineering exam is like the final exam of a "regular" (non-engineering/non-science) course. At some places we do more testing in a single semester than a business major will do across their entire undergraduate program.

    60. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by BigSlowTarget · · Score: 1

      Simply request that the networked functions be turned off. Have an electronic RF sniffer on your desk. Watch for spikes when people come in, then for spikes during the test.

      There are a number of expensive detectors or you can build your own. http://electroschematics.com/1035/mobile-bug-detector-sniffer/

    61. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by forand · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't know why this joker can't just have a few grad students roaming the room proctoring the exam like every other institution does.

      Many institutions of higher learning do not have graduate students for this and some which do, do not allow them to work beyond what their weekly duties are (blame graduate student unions).

      a "one strike and you're really, honestly out" policy and your problem is solved.

      This solution creates its own horrible problem: you cannot kick a student out of a class, even if caught cheating, unless you go through the proper channels. For all the universities I have been at this means weeks if not months of dealing with a bureaucracy that has no interest in being fast and is worried more about being sued by the student's family than having academic rigor.

    62. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by rhsanborn · · Score: 1

      I think you'll find that teaching facts rather than insights isn't traditional. It's a product of modern education wherein we need lots of teachers, and an unfortunate side effect is that most of these teachers don't really understand what led up to the fall of the Berlin wall, and so they have to generate tests that test the only things they truly understand, rote memorization and basic facts.

    63. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't know what kind of institution he is at, but some of my intro classes were huge, and really watching all those students was very difficult. Also take into account that many grad students tend to be foreign and not in tune with American culture, and often don't know what to look for.

      In an open book test environment (lots of books, notebooks piled on the desk) with the size of some of today's cellphones, it is probably still feasible to sneak a wireless internet device in.

    64. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by idontgno · · Score: 1

      Another interesting phenomenon I've noticed in association with those sanctioned "cheat sheets" in tests: the more I put into the cheat sheet, the less I needed it. For me, and for many others I've heard of, transcribing the facts and formulas was a mnemonic exercise.

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    65. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by QMO · · Score: 1

      Most situations are "contrived" in some sense.

      Now split-second emergencies aren't always purposely contrived, but notes aren't much use then, either.

      --
      Exam 4/C again. Maybe I'll do better this time.
    66. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeah sure....
      any solution that doesnt make you [some nasty word] in the eyes of the students?

      from reading the original post i did the impression, he knows some drastic alternatives, but is not happy with them and asked for ideas that keep a non-militaristic atmosphere in the classroom.

    67. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by T+Murphy · · Score: 1

      He didn't say notes are bad, just that complete dependence is. Many exams I'm taking as a mechanical engineering undergrad are open notes, but due to time constraints if I have to actually read my notes, I'm in trouble. I think it works well- I feel compelled to know the material really well, but I know I don't have to memorize, which frees up my study time to actually doing practice problems.

    68. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by HungryHobo · · Score: 1

      "and some of them whose native language isn't English also want to use electronic dictionaries."

      Unless it's a test on english language ability electronic dictionaries are perfectly fair.

    69. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by HungryHobo · · Score: 1

      It is however vastly slower to use and unless it's a very large book, far more limited.

    70. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "When you are dyslexic it is very hard to remember information like telephone numbers, list of words or formulas."

      My previous comment was not meant to be referred to people with disabilities. On the other hand, disabilities are, well, disabilities.

      I am not expert to tell if dislexia affects someone's ability for practical understandment and applying complex factual/technical knowledge, but *if* that were the case (and that's a reasonable assumption unless hard data is provided negating it), then my previous point still would hold and it certainly *does* hold with regards of people without such disabilites: holding factual knowledge at hand in your mind (like some formula or some constant) does help in problem resolution because:
        a) It enwiders your mental map (when you know something at heart you can apply it much better that if you only have a liminary knowledge. The mnemonic process helps on the fixation of the related abstract concepts).
        b) Lets your mind focus on the underlying problem instead of "tactical" minutiae (try to resolve a complex problem when everybody around is distracting you every moment. Having to go after some data is just the same only at minor scale).
        c) Tactically is faster to extract something out of your mind than looking for it elsewhere. On a time-limited scenario (as a test can be) that can make a clear difference.

    71. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "But in that particular school the teachers are more interested in if you know how to solve the problem than if you got the correct answer"

      Any teacher everywhere should focus on your abstraction process more than on the tactical resolution; that's for granted.

      "I once had every answer wrong on a test and I still got an 8 because they way I got to the answer was different (not how it was thought) and correct"

      *BUT* no teacher should focus exclusively on your abstraction process *disregarding* the results. An 8 (out of ten, I'll suppose) is way out of deserved unless quite specific local conditions bias the case (you being dyslexic *might* be the case here) a 5 out of ten (or a "C") should be compromise enough and that only if the know how probes brilliant.

      One important point with regards to problem resolution is attention to details: being unable to focus enough such as you properly reason a problem *and* properly follow procedures as to reach the proper solution in clearly not enough.

      Others have flagged "real life" in order to support things like notes, calculators or even "team-resolving" your tests. Well, "real life" won't give you high marks if you fail at a problem's solution, even if your thinking process is proper of a genious.

    72. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      Show me one real world scenario where notes and resource materials are not made available to employees

      Any employee who has to react immediately does not have time to consult "resource materials". A policeman or soldier in a firefight. A taxi driver or trucker avoiding a drunk driver or other obstruction. Boxers, wrestlers, or almost any professional athlete in the middle of a match.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    73. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      No notes for students tests memory, not comprehension.

      If you have to look up every last little thing, you will not be an effective employee or practitioner of your trade. Memorization is important, even if it is far from being everything. Tests that require some memorization mirror what the real world needs, and are consequently valid.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    74. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "That is all well and good, if physics happens to be the only class that a student takes in that semester, and the student's brain has been properly calibrated to just "get" physics."

      So you do expect high qualifications at physics even if your brain hasn't been properly calibrated to just "get" physics??? Even a 'C' means "this student "gets" physics good enough".

      "Show me one real world scenario where notes and resource materials are not made available to employees."

      Sure! As soon as you show me one real world scenario when the scope of a problem is limited in advance to whatever fits last semester knowledege or, heck, where you are told in advance "attention, please: this is not merely 'living as life goes' but a problem; these are boundary conditions and data values -there are no uneeded values and the provided values are guaranteed to allow for a proper and unique answer; oh, and you are expected to resolve it with techniques and knowledge from this given discipline".

      Tests are tests; "real life" is "real life".

    75. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "No notes for students tests memory, not comprehension."

      No notes for students tests both memory *and* comprehension.

      Re-read the first chapters from Descartes' "Discourse on the Method"... quite insigthful with regards of the value of proper memoristic abilities.

    76. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "He said real world scenario. Can you really say interview's aren't contrived situations?"

      Can you really say interviews don't happen in this real world or that they don't end up on quite real consequences (like you ending employed or unemployed)?

    77. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "Einstein did not fail math. sorry about being pedantic, but this is a pet peeve."

      It is not. *Specially* when this whole thread is about testing your abilities in contrast with your testing results.

      On one hand I did not say that Einstein failed at maths, but that as per Einstein's own accord he was bad at maths. Again by Einstein's own saying, he wouldn't have pass his math tests at the Polytechnikum without the unvaluable help from Marcel Grossmann.

      A different thing is the relative value (pun intended) of Einstein's assertion which has to be understood in the context of his work: Einstein being "bad" at maths doesn't mean he had problems with second degree polynomics or elemental algebra as it would mean for us, mere mortals, but that he had problems with things like tensorial calculus or elliptic geometry (both *essential* for his latter work)... up to the point that he made quite an serious mistake when calculating the angular value for light distortion from Sun by gravitational lens effect that would have had a massive effect on the early adoption of his general relativity theory where not the case that Eddington's mission to test it had to be delayed till 1919 due to IWW, so giving Einstein time to find the mistake.

    78. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 1

      And the point of administering a test is to make sure the students grasp the concepts taught, it is NOT a test on how well the school or teacher can block the students from cheating. The teacher does not need to apologize for setting his test policies (which are pretty much universally posted at the beginning of each semester by the professor/instructor so the students can't complain about 'not knowing'... take some fucking responsibility). If a student doesn't understand that they need to be able to pass the material with a bare minimum of help (even if that includes PRINTED notes) they are stupid and deserve a failing mark. Never mind assuming that you cannot use a networked device in a final examine (only a moron would assume otherwise), KNOW that you cannot. As for a dictionary, there are excellent PRINTED foreign language dictionaries that people can buy in every city and town on the fucking planet. Again, if a student can't figure out how to use a printed foreign language dictionary they are too fucking stupid to receive a passing grade. Besides which, if you go to school in a country that has as a native language something other than what you grew up with, you should be expected to learn that language. Why the fuck should the rest of the school have to bend over backward to accommodate you? Enough fucking political correctness. And if you think that is too harsh, you spring the money and start your own 'Babel University' where everyone speaks a different language and no-one knows what the fuck everyone else is talking about. I'm sure the students there will have a high placement rate. Give your head a shake and get a fucking grip for fuck's sake.

      Personally I'm starting to think that students should need to take one semester without any computers or networked devices at all and pass all courses before they are allowed to graduate. Learn how to do things on your own, thinking on your own without needing the opinions of others on facebook or twitter, or whatever social networking site of the day is in use. Not every class requires a computer and I think it would help improve critical thinking, independent thought, and methodical thinking/problem solving that old fashioned book research in libraries entails.

      --
      -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
    79. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by locrien · · Score: 1
      It doesn't have to be complicated or expensive but it wont be legal anymore. If that doesn't bother you there is still a good option. There is plenty of places online where you can find cell phone jammers. Cuts out CDMA/3G/GSM/DCS. I would say that's the best cheapest way to let everyone keep their familiar devices while still making sure they don't have internet access. I got mine for 25 bucks online.

      You can make WiFi unusable, however.

      Technically possible but not practical for economic reasons.

      Or you could alter the classroom so RF cannot enter through the walls or ceiling.

      VERY expensive. Colleges don't really have the funds to justify that, especially when just banning the offending devices is free.

      I suppose convincing the university to alter the classroom in this manner could be difficult, but they could also see the value in having some exam rooms that are essentially faraday cages

      Why not just take the figurative bullets out of the gun (no networked devices allowed) instead of building an expensive figurative bullet proof vest. If they don't need the networked device for the test, there is no reason to allow it in the room in the first place.

    80. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by Doctor+Faustus · · Score: 1

      If they have to consult their notes for every question (regardless of format) then they should fail the test because they don't understand the material adequately.

      If they have to consult their notes for every question, they probably will fail the test because they're going to run out of time.

    81. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by sexconker · · Score: 0

      Yo, retard.
      Einstein never failed math.

      It's a shitty myth shitty people tell shitty kids to make them feel less shitty about being so shitty at math.

      There are plenty of fucking things you have to commit to memory.

      Long-term memory has a much larger storage space than short-term memory. If you decided you could "look everything up" you would never solve any problems on any test.

      Why, you have to commit a basic vocabulary to memory just to be able to look things up.

      See heap vs stack.

    82. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by sexconker · · Score: 0, Troll

      No loss there, Asian chicks usually have small tits anyway.

      Small, perky, firm, and shapely > large, droopy, soft, and amorphous.

    83. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This test was about calculating the static and dynamic behavior of a two stage amplifier with filters. The calculations that need to be performed take well over two pages and are done in complex math http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex_number (luckily after the second year we were allowed to use an engineering calculator to do complex math) I think no one is expected to give the right answer.

      No one is doing these calculations in the real world, you would use modeling and simulation software for this these days. Before computers they made prototypes.

      In electronics there are just a few base formulas:
            P = U * I (Power equals Voltage times Current)
            U = I * R (Voltage equals Current times Resistance)
            tau = R * C (Time constant equals Resistance times Capacity)
            R12 = R1 + R2 (Series resistance)
            1/R12 = 1/R1 + 1/R2 (Parallel resistance)

      It is important to REALLY understand these base formulas, because most other formulas in electronics can be/are derived from these. And these do not only work for electricity they also work for the movement of heat (also an important part of electronics) and probably other engineering disciplines.

      Together with practical experiments showing how these formulas interact with the real world allows one to instinctually design and read electronics. I personally cannot remember the longer formulas, nor do I think I would be able to use them instinctually if I could.

      Real life is very forgiving when you thinking process is proper. When you write a document you show it to others for review before releasing it to the intended audience. When you make software you do code review, and if this is not possible you manage the expectations of your customer for the quality of the product you give him. In real life especially in a good working environment people can work together and create something better then each individual can do.

    84. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The solution is obvious. Make the test challenging even with the aid of electronic devices. We were often given "open-note" mathematics exams. The internet is an only slightly richer resource than a set of complete undergraduate notes, under the constraints of an exam.

    85. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by Sancho · · Score: 1

      Jesus Christ, you kids are pampered. In my day, you had to know the damned material when you took the test, or you flunked.

      And get off my lawn.

    86. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by Sancho · · Score: 1

      Even if you believe that, there's a thing called a formula sheet. The instructor can even write it on the blackboard for you, and provide hard copies to students as needed for ADA reasons (on specially colored paper.)

      You're supposed to master the material. No wonder the US is in such piss-poor shape in academia.

    87. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by Damase · · Score: 1
      We'll have to agree to disagree. IMHO -- Remembering tedious factoids and formulas isn't learning, it is memorizing. Understanding any given subject- including the sciences -means comprehending concepts, not memorizing look-ups.

      "Don't let education get in the way of your learning"-- Mark Twain

      --
      ---- Don't be irreplaceable. If you can't be replaced, you can't be promoted.
    88. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by Mr.+Freeman · · Score: 1

      "I've seen countless places where it's been done accidentally, for example, by having a tin roof"

      In what world do you live that a tin roof isn't expensive? Sure, compared to other roofs maybe it's cheaper. But for a building that already has a suitable roof, it's bloody expensive.

      "Some inexpensive foil wallpaper, metallic paint, or wire mesh all over the place"
      Yes, let's completely destroy all the decorating that went into this place. Furthermore, this isn't cheap either. Do you have any idea how big a lecture hall really is?

      --
      -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
    89. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by Mr.+Freeman · · Score: 1

      "No notes for students is not a draconian policy."

      And allowing notes for students is not absurd either. Seriously, some of these tests are amazingly complex problems designed to model real life scenarios. In real life scenarios, you have reference, you have books, you have notes. The issue is being able to properly apply these reference tables, books, etc. in such a way that you can solve a problem in a reasonable amount of time.

      Put another way, the purpose of a university is not to prepare you to memorize a cockload of formulas, the purpose is to teach you how to solve problems.

      --
      -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
    90. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by Mr.+Freeman · · Score: 1

      "This solution creates its own horrible problem: you cannot kick a student out of a class, even if caught cheating, unless you go through the proper channels. For all the universities I have been at this means weeks if not months of dealing with a bureaucracy that has no interest in being fast and is worried more about being sued by the student's family than having academic rigor."

      Must be some pretty shitty universities you've been at. Any real university protects their integrity with the entire force of their legal team. Yes, it's slow, but no one is worried about getting sued. Any university that caves into pressure from parents (or their lawyers) after a student cheats on their exam risks losing credibility, which is just as bad as losing their accreditation. And to be honest, it doesn't matter if it takes three days or three months, if the student gets kicked out then their ENTIRE diploma is shot.

      --
      -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
    91. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      This isn't about using notes. It's about asking somebody else for the answers.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    92. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      for students trying to stretch every penny, it can be a hardship to have to buy an expensive device that you really just don't need.

      Like the iPod that the gook bitch wanted to use?

    93. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by anyGould · · Score: 1

      Why not just take the figurative bullets out of the gun (no networked devices allowed) instead of building an expensive figurative bullet proof vest. If they don't need the networked device for the test, there is no reason to allow it in the room in the first place.

      Except that the point is, they do - they don't need the networking, but the device is their calculator/dictionary/what-have you. So the problem is really: how do you let them use their device without giving them the functionality you don't want them to have?

      It's not a new problem, actually - back in '95, my school finally allowed computers for final essay exams (for much the same logic: all year essays were required to be typed; why suddenly make everyone handwrite for 50% of their mark?) But they didn't like the built-in dictionary and thesaurus. So one of the computer labs had those functions removed from all the word processing software (I seem to remember they just deleted/moved the relevant files so an error popped up). Tada.

      But these sorts of problems aren't going to go away, so we need to find solutions. (A sniffer strikes me as the simplest - gives a clear record of whomever is using naughty devices?)

    94. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Yes, but all buildings' roof needs to be replaced eventually, most don't last that long. The school could always wait the 2 - 5 years or so, until its roof needs to be redone anyways.

      The expense in that case is also more so the cost of installing a roof, than the cost of materials.

      If the classroom has a tiled ceiling, it would probably be much cheaper for the professor to one night... take down each tile, glue/epoxy some tin foil to the back, let it dry, and replace the tile.

      Lather rinse and repeat, until all the ceiling tiles are covered.

      If it's a multi-story building, repeat with the ceiling tiles on the floor below.

      This eliminates air propagation and leaves a small possibility that signals could come in horizontally, through the walls, via ground propagation.

      These signals should be weaker, and a creative wallpaper job should do the trick to block out any other cell tower that seems to be getting reception; the professor can certainly test whether there's reception, providing he can get a hold of cell phones for every major carrier on a temporary basis.

      And make sure there are no desks near the walls: or students just aren't allowed to sit there.

    95. Re:Why do the complicated expensive solution? by sabt-pestnu · · Score: 1

      Combat Piloting? ... I assumed you meant "during the test"...

  56. Mmmm.... by davidwr · · Score: 0

    Baked apple i-phone pie, delicious.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  57. Hold the test in a computer lab by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    where everybody is sitting in front of a school-owned PC with dictionaries and calculator software installed. Yank the WAN cord out of the router.

  58. El-cheapo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No matter how you try to block signal, you will never prevent people from creating ad-hoc networks and exchanging information. And as you mentioned in your post, it's kind of hard to keep track of all the new guizmo and their capabilities. From my point of view, it seems like you found the solution yourself. No electronic device of any sort, except the calculator you provide.

    Sure, it's unfair for those with super-computer calculators, but then, isn't it unfair for those who can't afford them? As long as they know in advance what they will be using, if they feel it will be a major obstacle for them, they can always practice.

    Another solution would be to ask for solution steps only, rather than an actual answer. After all, physics is all about concepts and not so much the monkey number cranking.

    Any excuse is pointless... dictionary? Give me a break, it's a physics exam in an English (or whatever the language) school. You should have the basic language mastery to understand the questions, and the minimal vocabulary to explain your solution. Worse case, they can always ask for clarification, make assumptions, etc.

  59. No calculators by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am convinced that every single physics concept can be successfully tested WITHOUT a calculator (e.g.: calculators may not be used on the physics GRE)... who cares what the final *number* is... numbers are for homework!

    Most of my grad exams required that I showed all work, and left the answer as a simplified expression containing the relevant variables and physical constants. If a number is critical, have them do a ballpark estimate.. instruct to round all physical constants to 1 significant figure (pi = 3, e = 3, etc.) and use scientific notation.

  60. Pen. by drolli · · Score: 5, Informative

    I hold a PHD in physics.

    -A pen is enough. In physics exams students should prove they can transform formulas symbolically. Typing in number can be done by people at the cashier desk. Graphing calculators are a disease.

    -Everybody who wants, can take in a standalone mp3-player - these are cheap.

    -Regarding the dictionary - these exist in paper and are cheap - and faster than an ipod.

    Most important: who uses sophistication to cheat and i caught should be removed from the studies immediately.

    1. Re:Pen. by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 3, Informative

      You're overlooking the obvious - a lot more students take the first year "survey" physics courses, and many of them are from other disciplines. In Physics 101/2/3, they probably are doing a lot of problems that require (or at least are much easier with) a calculator.

      I think the honor system is the best approach. I assume you're walking around, or your TAs are, during the test - it's pretty easy to tell a student who's performing a calculation from one who's doing a Google search on the problem at hand. As long as you've told them ahead of time that network access will not be permitted, I'd think you're good.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    2. Re:Pen. by OttoErotic · · Score: 1

      If you go with the honor system, hire my mom as a TA; nobody can resist the guilt from that disappointed look. But I'm not sure whether that translates to test taking or only works if she catches them masturbating.

      --
      "Once in Hawaii I had sex with a 102 year old male turtle. It is difficult to argue that it was consensual." - Steve Ma
    3. Re:Pen. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Glad you didn't say PHD in English.....

    4. Re:Pen. by jirka · · Score: 1

      if you are using calculators on the sorts of questions that are asked in an introductory physics or math exam ... something is terribly wrong with your undestanding of the subject.

    5. Re:Pen. by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      if you are using calculators on the sorts of questions that are asked in an introductory physics or math exam ... something is terribly wrong with your undestanding of the subject.

      "A student is given 1,543 cubic centimeters of ethanol ice that's initially at -147 degrees Celsius. Said student is instructed to heat the ice until it melts and continue heating until it eventually reaches a temperature of +43C throughout. How many total calories did this require?"

      Yeah, no one would want a calculator for a question like that - everyone loves doing tedious multiplication and addition long hand.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    6. Re:Pen. by turbidostato · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Yeah, no one would want a calculator for a question like that"

      Don't do such a question, then:

      "A student is given 1,000 cubic centimeters of ethanol ice that's initially at -164 degrees Celsius. Said student is instructed to heat the ice until it melts and continue heating until it eventually reaches a temperature of +36C throughout. How many total calories did this require?"

      See? Same knowledge tested, no calculator needed.

    7. Re:Pen. by martin-boundary · · Score: 1

      You're overlooking the obvious - a lot more students take the first year "survey" physics courses, and many of them are from other disciplines.

      What are you saying? That students who don't want to do physics eventually should still get credit for physics knowledge without the hassle of actually learning physics? If they're going to ask to be credited with physics knowledge (that's what passing a physics unit means), then they should actually go through a physics class and/or prove that they master the content.

      A watered down test where the students only have to convince the grader that they could solve the problems if they wanted to, but it's tedious and boring and here's an outline to show understanding... I don't call that a test, I call that bullshit.

    8. Re:Pen. by syousef · · Score: 1

      I hold a PHD in physics.

      Good for you. I also hold qualifications (Astronomy, Computer Science) and have taught at University (Computer Science). But I don't bandy about my qualifications to bring legitimacy to my arguments.

      -A pen is enough.

      I would at least want some paper. It's pretty hard to take home 30 or 40 desks to mark.

      In physics exams students should prove they can transform formulas symbolically.

      Yes they should. But there's more to physics than symbolic math.

      Typing in number can be done by people at the cashier desk.

      And it's an essential skill. There's no need for snobbery.

      Graphing calculators are a disease.

      That disease you speak of many an 18th Century mathematician or scientist would have committed bloody murder to obtain.

      -Everybody who wants, can take in a standalone mp3-player - these are cheap.

      ...and just as useful for cheating.

      -Regarding the dictionary - these exist in paper and are cheap - and faster than an ipod.

      Luddite! iPods are awful for entry, but there are decent and much faster ways to look up a word than a paper dictionary. The one stored on a device can be MUCH larger and more detailed without taking up room or breaking your back.

      Most important: who uses sophistication to cheat and i caught should be removed from the studies immediately.

      At least on that we agree.

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    9. Re:Pen. by khallow · · Score: 1

      I think the honor system is the best approach.

      The funny thing is that there isn't a lot of honor in the honor system in college. I'd rather ban electronic devices completely aside from a basic, non-networked calculator. Then you don't have to worry about whether someone is google searching or solving the problem the hard way. And it removes a source of temptation for students (many who won't reach maturity till well after they leave college). My take is that if it gets harder to cheat, then a few of them (that would have decided to cheat in an easy environment) will study more.

    10. Re:Pen. by drolli · · Score: 1

      >> I hold a PHD in physics.

      > Good for you. I also hold qualifications (Astronomy, Computer Science) and have taught at University (Computer Science). But I don't bandy about my qualifications to bring legitimacy to my arguments.

      Funny, i intended the title only as a background information. I hate it if people involved in something don't state so and make their opinion general.

      >> A pen is enough.

      > I would at least want some paper. It's pretty hard to take home 30 or 40 desks to mark.

      A pen is enough. Paper is provided for by the examiner (and sometimes stamped and a document) to prevent cheating. Half of our tests were actually "pen only".

      >> In physics exams students should prove they can transform formulas symbolically.

      > Yes they should. But there's more to physics than symbolic math.

      Really? i never noted that. Most of the number processing i would have to do is done by programs, actually. I hate it actually when students stand in front of a device and instead of having developed way to derive quickly in which direction to turn the know take out graphing calculators.

      >> Typing in number can be done by people at the cashier desk.

      > And it's an essential skill. There's no need for snobbery.

      For people at the cashier desk, maybe. In my life as a researcher it seldom happened that i had to perform numerical calculations by hand. I tend to write a program even for the simplest calculation, since i seem to have a small legasteny when it comes to numbers and manual calculations (compared to other physicists at least).

      >> Graphing calculators are a disease.

      > That disease you speak of many an 18th Century mathematician or scientist would have committed bloody murder to obtain.

      They would have murdered for having anything which has a sqrt or log key. But to learn mathematics, graphing calculators are not so great.

      >> Everybody who wants, can take in a standalone mp3-player - these are cheap.

      > and just as useful for cheating.

      No, i don't think you can contact somebody outside the room using a simple mp3-player without wireless.

      >> Regarding the dictionary - these exist in paper and are cheap - and faster than an ipod.

      > Luddite! iPods are awful for entry, but there are decent and much faster ways to look up a word than a paper dictionary. The one stored on a device can be MUCH larger and more detailed without taking up room or breaking your back.

      Uhm yes? concerned about the student carrying it five time per year?

    11. Re:Pen. by drolli · · Score: 1

      Yes. The point is that i normally suppose people learned in school how to handle the calculator.

      What they should take with them, ideally on that level are exponents in processes - how does water flow scale versus pipe diameter? how does energy consumption go up with speed? etc.

      Having that in their minds will help them more than training them to type number better.

    12. Re:Pen. by The+Living+Fractal · · Score: 1

      A PhD in Physics is not a PhD in Education. It seems that far too many academic institutions forget this simple fact.

      --
      I do not respond to cowards. Especially anonymous ones.
    13. Re:Pen. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My wife is the Academic Integrity admin at a major (top 50) US university and she has some really interesting information about this.

      Here's the deal: you have a 20/60/20 rule. 20% of students will NEVER cheat. 20% will ALWAYS consider cheating as an option no matter what you do. 60% of students can be swayed.

      Look up research done by Dan Ariely, or read "Predictably Irrational". That 60% of students who's decisions can be swayed are easily discouraged. All you need to do is say "Remember: this test falls under the academic honesty policies that you agreed to when you became a student here". Whether they did or not, and whether there is actually an Academic Honesty Policy at the school or not, simply implying there is and reminding the students to be honest makes a HUGE impact on the amount of cheating that occurs.

      The 20% that you still have to worry about aren't going to be stopped by limiting their access to devices or networks or anything else.

    14. Re:Pen. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hold a PHD in physics.

      Oh! Wow. Well then, we should probably all gather around and listen.

    15. Re:Pen. by thingummy · · Score: 1

      Simplicity of calculations is a hint.

    16. Re:Pen. by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      "Yeah, no one would want a calculator for a question like that"

      Don't do such a question, then:

      "A student is given 1,000 cubic centimeters of ethanol ice that's initially at -164 degrees Celsius. Said student is instructed to heat the ice until it melts and continue heating until it eventually reaches a temperature of +36C throughout. How many total calories did this require?"

      See? Same knowledge tested, no calculator needed.

      Sorry, but if you knew physics you'd know ethanol doesn't follow the same "one calorie x one gram = one degree C" formula as water. The heat capacity is different, and the latent heat of melting is different. While the math is doable in either case, it's pointless unless your goal is to test their basic math knowledge rather than their knowledge of basic heat transfer.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    17. Re:Pen. by thingummy · · Score: 1

      So? Calculations required for GP's question are simpler than GGP's. And heat capacity and latent heat values can be provided to students during exams - in a very simplified way so as to be not very accurate but computationally convenient. What's your point?

  61. Just say no. by duffbeer703 · · Score: 4, Informative

    If you can't hack using a standard 4 function calculator, than you can't hack physics either.

    I also hate to be rude, but most universities require that students speak and read english. While I can appreciate the fact that a Korean may not have the best grasp of written English, I also think it that individual's responsibility to learn the language or work outside of class to create notes in his or her native language. I sat through a number of situations in school where I was struggling with difficult material while foreign students were either talking during exams in their language, "sharing calculators" or similar, blatant examples of cheating that went unchallenged due to the political situation at the university.

    After being written up in the campus newspaper, one professor "took a stand" by curving everyone's grade up one letter grade, essentially bribing the class into submission.

    --
    Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
    1. Re:Just say no. by syousef · · Score: 1

      If you can't hack using a standard 4 function calculator, than you can't hack physics either.

      I wouldn't touch a standard calculator given a choice. I would much rather spend time learning to use Octave, Scilab or other advanced software than waste it on junk calculators from the 70s and 80s.

      I did a lot of my Astronomy homework and exams (Masters completed circa 2002) using Excel. (Yes I'm aware of its limitations, but used sensibly it's an awesome tool).

      Using software gives you repetability and if you discover an error you don't have to redo a bunch of calculations by hand. Both hand calculation and software computation have led to many blunders in the history of science. Computer errors, when not made in real time or on a critical system, are more likely to allow you to recover the work. People who have time to waste doing calculations by hand and learning to get low error rates by definition have less time to do actual science. Just look at the history of subjects like Astronomy before the modern computer. Do you think half the simulations we do would be remotely possible by hand? Care to hand calculate draw a large particle simulation? Even if it's your dream job no one will pay you to do it today.

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    2. Re:Just say no. by xtracto · · Score: 1

      I completely agree.

      I think the students that are saying they need an dictionary for a physics exam are just bullshitting the teacher.

      And even though English is not my native language, I say OP should forbid dictionaries and the like during his exams; for god sakes it is not literature of philosophy!

      --
      Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
    3. Re:Just say no. by commodoresloat · · Score: 1

      After being written up in the campus newspaper, one professor "took a stand" by curving everyone's grade up one letter grade, essentially bribing the class into submission.

      Eh? written up for what? How did this bribery help? I'm sure there's a relevant story behind this sentence, but I couldn't figure out what it has to do with the topic based on this.

  62. Make internet worthless by lavagolemking · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Basically, just make the test in a way that looking something up on the internet won't do any good. No need to jam/disable the wireless signal or restrict use of electronic devices to specific models.

    I had an instructor who gave tests online and made it very difficult to cheat. For vocabulary, she either gave the definition or a contextual example, which wasn't something someone can just look up in Google. For extended response questions, I hear it is pretty easy to catch students who cheated after the fact; their work is inconsistent with what they submitted in the past and sometimes there are clues you can use to your advantage. For example, I had a Spanish teacher in high school who would call out students who used grammar structures not yet covered (such as past-subjunctive tense) in their take-home papers, a sign that someone else wrote the paper for them. He would politely ask the student a few questions about the grammar used in their paper. If they were able to explain "normally when referring to multiple subjects, you combine the last two with the conjunction 'y', but if the first letter of the word immediately following it is 'i' or 'y', you change 'y' to 'e'," but if they clearly didn't understand why it was used in their paper, it was a sign they cheated, and those students couldn't usually explain anything in their paper (in English).

    Needless to say, don't make multiple choice tests identical, and if you proctor an exam at multiple times don't give the same version. If you think they're getting answers from an unethical "tutor", then I'm not really sure what you could do but I'd would be willing to bet there isn't a lot of "reasonable expectation to privacy" if you look over their shoulder for instant messages as long as you don't get the IT department to route their traffic through a squid proxy or something.

    1. Re:Make internet worthless by xtracto · · Score: 1

      Haha, that reminded me of my High School.

      My physics teacher on HS gave us two options: We could either had the standard exam in the classrooms or we could choose a test to "take away" home.

      The test to take away home consisted of 1 *real life* problem in which you had to apply several of the physics we learnt during that month. Shit it was difficult! I had it once and then gladly took the standard memorize-the-formulas test after that.

      --
      Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
    2. Re:Make internet worthless by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      internet is not worthless for cheating with the exam you've described - as the people taking the exam are free to communicate between each other while taking the test(why would they? because they're humans).

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
  63. Have them all buy cheapo calculators by imgod2u · · Score: 1

    I can understand not wanting them to plop $80 on an expensive calculator but there's no reason they shouldn't be able to adapt to using a $5 cheapo calculator. They're physics students for god sakes. If they can figure out a programmable TI-89, they can figure out what the x, /, + and - signs do.

    Suggest that in order to practice for the exam, they use the calculator and not their graphing ones during homework. And -- this is the most important part -- make sure the test *resembles* the homework in format. As in, "ya, I've done this type of problem using nothing but the four functions before, it's just presented differently here".

    Just assign a lot of "suggested" problems such that they have enough source material to practice from. It's easy to say "well you should be able to figure it out if you grasp the concept" but often, professors don't realize how big a leap it is (years of doing that type of problem) to go from concept to answering a realistic question.

    1. Re:Have them all buy cheapo calculators by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As in, "ya, I've done this type of problem using nothing but the four functions before, it's just presented differently here".

      Okay, but if we're talking about physics exams why would they karate chop the paper?

  64. Ah... that explains everything... by davidwr · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Actually, the USA has no official language.

    That explains why nobody outside Washington can understand what the Government is saying!

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:Ah... that explains everything... by robot256 · · Score: 1

      You mean us insiders can understand it? Could've fooled me there...

  65. Require Airplane Mode by RexDevious · · Score: 1

    For iPods and iPhones (as well as many network capable ebook readers like Nooks) putting them in airplane mode results in an "airplane" symbol being displayed at the top of the screen just like the signal strength. Next to jamming the signal (which is almost needless if they're on AT&T iPhones), requiring them to use devices which indicate they aren't transmitting or receiving visually would be the next best way to ensure they weren't sharing answers.

    1. Re:Require Airplane Mode by CityZen · · Score: 1

      What if they jailbreak the devices and have them always show the airplane mode icon?

    2. Re:Require Airplane Mode by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...and you check the airplane mode how many times a minute for all those students?

      What about the 6542284 other wifi/cell-capable gadgets, any insights there too, fanboy?

  66. Electronic dictionaries? by Pedrito · · Score: 1

    What non-native English speaking foreign student doesn't have an English to "insert foreign language here" treeware dictionary? Tell them to use that instead. I got by just fine with one when I was living abroad. Not to mention, they tend to be more accurate than most of the online translation dictionaries I've used.

    As for calculators, when I took chemistry, physical chemistry and other classes that used math, we were allowed a calculator. It could be one of the advanced programmable graphing ones, or it could be a basic one. Either would have been fine for those exams and I imagine they'll be fine for yours. Students are generally responsible for providing their own. If you'd like to throw in some cheapo simple ones to supplement that for the students who might not have one (what student taking physics doesn't have at least a basic calculator?), you're certainly welcome to, but I wouldn't expect that from a professor.

    I wouldn't go too far out of your way and I wouldn't bend over backwards to accommodate them. You're the professor. You set the rules.

    The things I've mentioned above have been pretty standard in universities for at least a few decades. I'm guessing this isn't advanced physics and I'm pretty sure basic physics hasn't changed drastically in the past few decades, so no reason you should have to accommodate the latest and greatest tech.

    1. Re:Electronic dictionaries? by karuna · · Score: 1

      Language skills are not binary. It is not that you either speak the language or not. It is rare that a person can speak a foreign language at a native speaker's level even after many years of learning and practice. While one's level of English can suffice in many everyday's situations one may still occasionally come across unknown words. Many words have different meanings depending on context and during the exam when a student may be more tense and nervous he or she might forget the exact meaning of some words. There is nothing wrong to use dictionaries in such cases to be 100% sure that the problem is not misunderstood.

      I also disagree that paper dictionaries are better than electronic ones. Yes, there are bad online dictionaries too but nowadays you can buy almost every paper dictionary in electronic edition. Check the mobipocket editions for various formats and platforms including Palm, iPhone, iPad, Kindle etc. Looking up the word in the paper dictionary is a waste of time when technology provides a perfect solution.

    2. Re:Electronic dictionaries? by penguinchris · · Score: 1

      If you get used to a good electronic dictionary (or a good website), it's tough to go to a paper one. I don't believe these students should require an electronic one for an exam, and letting them only use paper ones is the obvious solution, but there is a huge difference.

      Not sure what you've looked at online, but there are a lot of great internet language dictionaries out there. You want to find one that is exclusively for one language, not something like Google Translate or Babelfish (though those are great for getting a rough translation of a website). Leo.org for German is great, and thai2english.com and thai-language.com are great for Thai, as examples. After getting used to those for communicating over the internet in Thai after meeting people there and not learning a whole lot of the language, when I went back to Thailand with several paper dictionaries it was really frustrating.

      I found a Thai dictionary for Android and while the dictionary was terrible compared to the websites (I didn't have data access with my pre-paid sim card) the ease of use and portability make it a heck of a lot easier to use. No surprise that foreign students want to use this kind of software instead of paper dictionaries (which at this point they may have hardly ever used in their life, even in school in their home country). I believe the software dictionaries for e.g. Japanese, Korean, and Chinese are a heck of lot better than the Thai one since more people are interested in those.

    3. Re:Electronic dictionaries? by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 1

      What non-native English speaking foreign student doesn't have an English to "insert foreign language here" treeware dictionary?

      Far Eastern ones -- I haven't seen anyone from Korea, Japan or Taiwan with a paper dictionary for several years now.

      HAL.

      --
      Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
  67. There isn't always time to consult a book by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is almost never a situation in the professional world where one must solve a problem with absolutely no references

    Sure there is. Surgeons encounter such situations all the time. When a patient is actively dying on their operating table, there is absolutely no time to go look up the answer in a book. They need to know the answer from what is already in their head. Other professions experience similar situations. Soldiers, firefighters, police, and even occasionally engineers experience situations where they have to already know the answer. Doesn't happen all the time but it happens often enough that testing people to ensure they have a certain body of knowledge is quite necessary.

  68. Welcome to USA, learn the language. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Tell the students that they are in USA, and if they don't know the language of the country they came to study in, they should go back wherever they came from.

  69. Good call... by dhj · · Score: 1

    Good call not allowing an ipod in a physics class...

    http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/matlab-mobile/id370976661?mt=8

    Get the 4 function calculators. You can test physics knowledge with a 4 function calculator. I would say a 3x4 index card (or a formula sheet) would also be acceptable. That way you could better test their ability to apply formulas rather than memorize them. If a student needs a translation dictionary then there are very reasonably priced self contained models available. Well worth the investment for any class that allows it.

  70. Suitcase nuke! by martin-boundary · · Score: 1

    Nuke the classroom atmosphere while standing on a chair, it's the only way to be sure...

  71. It isn't a contest. by tpstigers · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    I say let them use whatever damn toys they want. Your job is to teach them, not police them. You're teaching college students - you shouldn't have to worry whether they're 'cheating' or not. You have enough problems with the day-to-day of teaching the subject matter - don't unnecessarily burden yourself with extraneous worries. Are they cheating? Who gives a crap? You know that they're only hurting themselves by doing so. Imparting knowledge is your business - disciplining cheaters is not (especially since educators are no longer really allowed to discipline students, anyway).

    1. Re:It isn't a contest. by estitabarnak · · Score: 1

      Actually, in many classes in many universities, it is a contest. Exams for technical classes are often curved due to the difficulty of the material. If some bozo aces it by cheating, it can screw a lot of people who worked hard but didn't have complete mastery of the material. So while it's real nice to say "they're only hurting themselves," the reality is that they could be hurting plenty of other people in the class.

  72. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by JWSmythe · · Score: 1, Informative

        It actually wouldn't be very hard to do it. A Faraday cage isn't so impossible to build.

        There is paint available with a high metal content (hopefully not lead) which should do a pretty good job. Don't forget, the floor (if there's a floor under it), and the ceiling must be covered too. The windows would also need to be covered.

        Alternatively (or in addition to), putting a fine wire mesh, with holes a fraction of the wavelength (come on Ham folks throw in the right numbers), were added to the walls, ceiling, and covering the windows, it would kill the connections.

        If cheating on the class is such a big deal, they'll continue to find ways to subvert the schools control. If the worlds best Faraday cage was built in the room, with the most refined jammers, the students will just find another way to cheat. Since the exam has to be on knowledge they've accumulated during the course, they already know the materials that they need to sneak in. They may go back to the (oh my gosh) traditional writing the answers on their arms, shoes, or small notes. It's not the technology that needs to be fought, it's the fact that students will cheat.

        Way back in high school, I was a teachers aide for a little while. I remember grading two girls tests, who sat beside each other. Every question on the test, right or wrong, was identical except for one. The girls threw a fit. I quietly mentioned to the teacher about the obvious cheating. I was given the tests back, and they were disputing the one that I thought they had marked differently. When it was given back to me, the question was now identical. Unfortunately for them, I had made an error, and the one I marked right was actually wrong. Oops, you both fail. There was no real action taken against them. The teacher knew exactly what happened, so the two girls were not to sit beside each other in that class for the remainder of the school year.

        The question becomes, how do you catch cheating, and/or prevent it? That's up to the teacher and the school. Expulsion? Forced retaking of the semester/year? A smack on the knuckles with a wooden ruler (bring on the nuns!)

    --
    Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
  73. Just turn off Wi-Fi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Explain the situation to the local IT guys. Ask them to turn off the nearest router for a few hours.

    It won't make it impossible to cheat, but you'll at least be back where you are now.

    The people who really want to cheat will always find a way. But at least you can make it difficult.

  74. Silly overcomplicated solution by sjbe · · Score: 1

    For classes where every student can be trusted:

    This occurs with about the same frequency as unicorn farts.

    Get the university to paint a room or two in each classroom building with WiFi- and cell-phone-blocking paint. You'll have to lay new tile and paint the ceilings as well.

    Why would a university do that when banning the networked devices is free? Take the bullets out of the gun instead of building a bullet proof vest. Is the term cost versus benefit completely lost on you?

    1. Re:Silly overcomplicated solution by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      besides, microsd's hold a lot of data nowadays, so just cutting network isn't a solution to any problem of possible cheating. having not defined cheating though, it'll be extremely hard for this guy to come up with a good solution. dictionaries? yeah, they'd be cheating where i'm at - and if you allow them you're allowing an electronic notebook, an electronic aid. and if your students NEED a dictionary how are you going to explain the rules of conduit to them?

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
  75. Hold exams in a Faraday Cage by Jafafa+Hots · · Score: 1

    n/t

    --
    This space available.
  76. Giant Faraday cages by st1ckybit · · Score: 1

    Maybe it'd be worth bringing this suggestion up to your employer, but I could see a value in making testing rooms that are effectively giant Faraday cages. It certainly wouldn't help against peer to peer network capable devices but it'd go a long way toward blocking cell/wifi. It's not like it's hard or expensive to construct a room in such a way to block such signals.

  77. There is only one way.. by iONiUM · · Score: 4, Funny

    EMP. That'll show 'em.

    1. Re:There is only one way.. by jirka · · Score: 1

      just remember to turn off your phone before proctoring ...

    2. Re:There is only one way.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      EMP. That'll show 'em.

      Its pronounced "Emp."

    3. Re:There is only one way.. by aug24 · · Score: 1

      "I say we take off and nuke a relatively nearby site with a fairly small nuke from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."

      --
      You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me.
    4. Re:There is only one way.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I say we take off and nuke the planet from outer space. It's the only way to be sure.

    5. Re:There is only one way.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ESP. Plan B.

  78. Observe the students by antifoidulus · · Score: 1

    You mention in your question the number 30 which leads me to believe that there are only about 30 students in your class. Why can't you just monitor them during the exam, just like in olden days? If someone is holding up there phone above the test while they adjust the paper to get the right angle, it's pretty obvious what they are doing. If someone is typing a ton on their phone, it's pretty obvious what they are doing(if they are using their phone as a dictionary then for the most part they will just be checking a couple of words here and there). If you see these behaviors just start walking around that area for a while, if they keep it up they are stupid and deserve to fail, if they stop then they probably get the message.

  79. Where there's a will, there's a way by jlaxson · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm late to this party, but: http://honorcode.stanford.edu/

    --
    On Apple Input Peripherals: They're okay, I guess, but I was really hoping for a one-key keyboard and a 109-button mouse
    1. Re:Where there's a will, there's a way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stanford has the right idea. I wish I had gone to school there.

      Furthermore, I don't think professors should be burdened with having to police students' ethics. If students want to cheat, let them cheat. They aren't hurting anyone but themselves. They will get found out eventually.

    2. Re:Where there's a will, there's a way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, other schools have these too. Enforcement is another matter though - particularly when they want the revenue.

    3. Re:Where there's a will, there's a way by Marcika · · Score: 1

      I'm late to this party, but: http://honorcode.stanford.edu/

      Yes, pretty much every other US college has a pledge or policy like that (including the one I studied at). It is rarely or never properly enforced and not adhered to by students. (A cheater knows that what he's doing is wrong, pledge or no pledge.) If anything, it hinders punishment of cheaters -- when faced with the harsh decision to suspend/expel the cheater, ruin their lives and lose $10,000s in tuition money, the university usually decides to ignore the issue instead. (Proper solution IMO: F for the course, marked in the transcript as caused by "cheating".)

  80. Some Possible Solutions by Colonel+Korn · · Score: 1

    1) Tell students to use dead tree dictionaries.

    2) Buy 30 simple calculators as you suggest, and then have students solve problems with them in class several times before the exam so they can get used to them.

    In any case, I always like giving exams that aren't incredibly time consuming. If I have a 1 hour exam period I aim for reasonable students finishing in about 40 minutes, though I know they'll probably spend the rest of their time going back and checking answers, trying to work out parts they didn't understand, etc. It gives a nice time cushion for the ESL students.

    --
    "I zero-index my hamsters" - Willtor (147206)
  81. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by Cwix · · Score: 1

    They arnt going to give you a waiver... I just read an article about how prisons cant get permission to do it, what makes you think a teacher will get one?

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39155679/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

    --
    You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
  82. Passive-Aggressive Solution..... by IHC+Navistar · · Score: 1

    1: Cell phone jammer.
    2: Wi-Fi jammer.
    3: Request IT disable hardwire connections to your classrooms during the times that you want to test them.

    Invest in a cell jammer and wi-fi jammer, and just take them with you to class. Students shouldn't be cruising the net, "twittering", or IM-ing during class anyways. I'm already looking at a couple of jammers to buy and carrying them with me in my laptop bag. They will be especially useful in the library, where there are WAY too many obnoxious asshats who think their conversation on who slept with who after the last party will help me will help me with my midterms.

    Maybe turning the jammers on just long enough to cause the connections to drop, and then shutting them off (a 15 second ON period every 3 minutes?) will piss them off enough to take their calls outside.

    --
    Knowing Google's lust for data collection, the Soviet Union is still alive and well inside the psyche of Sergey Brin....
  83. Re:Also by Dravik · · Score: 1

    That's more of an Army specific thing. It is virtually impossible to accomplish anything in the Army without skirting, bending, or ignoring one or more regulations. It isn't uncommon to run across situations in the US Army where there are mutually exclusive regulations such that there is no possible course of action that doesn't violate a regulation. Thus, if your not cheating, your not actually trying to get anything done.

    --
    The purpose of language is communication, If the idea is clear the grammar ain't important
  84. Re:Also by Jafafa+Hots · · Score: 1

    After reading this, I'm at a loss to understand why my uncle went into the military as someone I respected deeply and came out of the military an amoral asshole.

    --
    This space available.
  85. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by Antisyzygy · · Score: 1

    I suppose a jammer would be the best option if you have money to burn, but you would need to test it real well and also need to consider the fact that it may interfere with other classrooms. I would just not allow Ipod-touch, cell phones, laptops, ect. The Korean student that dropped the course is very suspect since certain iPods, i.e. the most popular one, have the capability of browsing the web and chatting with friends. I would wager that she has someone she knew she could cheat off of by chatting with them. There is no other reason to drop considering a new electronic dictionary is cheaper than an iPod the majority of the time. You can give them an acceptable list of calculators and electronic dictionaries. I had to buy a special calculator for the FE exam and 100-150 dollar textbooks for all of my Physics courses in Undergrad and I was perpetually poor in spite of these expenses. I didn't even go to an expensive university and I was in-state. I don't see why these students shouldn't be able to afford a different electronic dictionary that cannot be used as a cheating device. Go off of the requirements of something like the FE exam.

    --
    That brings me to an interesting point, / . is just "the ramblings of socially-inept, technology-literate news-mongers".
  86. the poor delicate creatures by mr_walrus · · Score: 2, Informative

    >but I'm afraid that less-adaptable students will be unable to handle the switch from
    >the calculator they know to an unfamiliar (but simpler) one.

    isn't being a student all about being adaptable?
    migawd! coddle them much or what?

  87. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by Salpula · · Score: 1

    You can also get these cheap from deal extreme if you want to just try it out with a handheld one. If you don't want to always block, only turn it on during tests.

  88. Re:Also by JWSmythe · · Score: 1

        Come around here and say that. I'll shoot your second amendment hating, America hating, commie, hippie ass before you get to the door.

        [Note: Sarcasm. Most Americans are at least somewhat civilized. They may just shank you.]

    --
    Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
  89. Prevents Lightning damage too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage

  90. Simply purchase an ordinary microwave oven... by SiliconEntity · · Score: 1

    ...and using a drill and jigsaw, cut through and remove the window in the front. This will allow the microwaves to escape and jam electronic communication. For extra fun, mount the microwave on a "Lazy Susan" spinning platter. You can sit behind it and turn it from side to side, to sweep the room and aim it at anyone who's acting suspiciously.

    1. Re:Simply purchase an ordinary microwave oven... by stillnotelf · · Score: 1

      I hear you can also melt bars of chocolate sitting in their shirt pockets this way.

  91. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by OttoErotic · · Score: 3, Informative

    Fly the entire class to Austin and hold the tests in my house, where wireless signals mysteriously die at the front door. Bonus: I have cake.

    --
    "Once in Hawaii I had sex with a 102 year old male turtle. It is difficult to argue that it was consensual." - Steve Ma
  92. Make them approximate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't let them use a calculator at all. Make them focus on how the right answer is achieved not on getting the answer to the 10th decimal place. Make them use approximations as a method of getting the answer. It is a valuable skill to be able to get a right order of magnitude value very quickly (assuming you know what is going on). Most of Astro is approximating big values, pi ~ 3, or even 10. Most of semiconductor physics is getting the right 10^-x where x is the number you are interested in, not the decimal places. Detailed engineering is different, but for understanding the concept in physics, you should be able to use good, solid judgement to make approximations better than a calculator.

  93. It's like hemorrhoids, work it out with a pencil by they_call_me_quag · · Score: 1

    "It's like hemorrhoids, work it out with a pencil."

    That's a quote from a math teacher at my high school (20 something years ago.)

    Let me answer your question with a question... "Why the hell should they be allowed to use any electronic device during the test?"

    I understand the open notes policy, but seriously, if you can't perform math you shouldn't get a passing grade in physics. What did we do before iPods? Were there no physics tests? Of course there were. Entire generations of students (including me) took college-level physics tests with nothing more than a pencil and some paper.

  94. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nothing illegal about a physics professor building a giant faraday cage to encompass a teaching space...

  95. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by Akaihiryuu · · Score: 2, Funny

    Raspberry...there is only one man who would DARE give me raspberry!

  96. Paper dictionaries? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I had a Korean student who was upset and dropped the course when I told her she couldn't use her iPod during an exam — she said she used it as a dictionary.

    That's her own problem for using an overpowered device for a simple function. Your concern is reasonable, and she should just get a paper dictionary. I've TAed a comp sci course before that was open-notes but no electronic devices, and our answer to the international students (of which there were many) was to tell them to get paper dictionaries.

    1. Re:Paper dictionaries? by karuna · · Score: 1

      The suggestion to use paper dictionary instead of electronic one is equal to using the slide rule when you have a legitimate need to perform complicated calculations. Why not use a calculator instead?

      I understand that preventing cheating is a valid concern but let's get real. The test that so out of touch of real life helps little.

  97. Calculators by Damase · · Score: 1

    I didn't see this covered in a prior post (not that I searched diligently ;) ), but if you rquire a certain calculator in your syllabus, the college bookstore will stock them, and student aid will pay for them. And I'd like to say kudos on the open notes exams.

    --
    ---- Don't be irreplaceable. If you can't be replaced, you can't be promoted.
  98. Eliminate English comprehension from Physics exams by lucasrangit · · Score: 1

    Can you give an example of one of your exam questions? I'd like to understand how English comprehension poses a barrier to a physic problem. Perhaps your exam questions are reworded in such a way to prevent a student from memorizing solutions or lifting their solution directly from an example in the book? If the problem statement is something never seen before then take care no to make it too difficult for non-native speakers to comprehend. If you do then you risk giving non-native speakers the disadvantage if they cannot use dictionaries.

  99. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by Sarten-X · · Score: 1

    Be a nice professor. Make microwave popcorn during the exam for the students. Use an old low-power microwave, because I find it makes the popcorn taste just a bit better. If your class is large enough and hungry enough, you'll have no cheating (via wi-fi, at least) for the duration of the exam.

    --
    You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
  100. Random scatter? by gringer · · Score: 1

    Would randomly scattering individuals into separate rooms work? Most exams I've taken sort by last name, so it's fairly predictable which people you'll be lumped with. Here's my suggestion:

    • Keep the exams open book — please dispense with this need for memorisation of every detail, rather than a more general understanding of how things fit together
    • Multiple rooms (say 3) for each exam
    • Random assignment of individuals to rooms (but post a reasonable time before the exam)
    • Multiple exams over the course of the year
    • [Probably the most controversial] final result based on lowest exam mark (or a function of the lowest mark)

    Hopefully, for someone to game that, they'd have to make friends with a large proportion of the class. And with that amount of effort in making social connections, you might as well give them the marks anyway.

    Or, alternatively, here's something that increases marker effort, but would be much more effective to prevent this:

    • Give each person slightly different questions

    The "easy" implementation of this would be to randomly select from a small bank of questions (say 3-4) for each provided question. You wouldn't be able to photocopy exams for distribution, because each exam would be different, but it shouldn't increase the marker's effort by too much.

    --
    Ask me about repetitive DNA
  101. Can you legally lock them in a Faraday Cage? by jrobot · · Score: 1

    Though this would add a whole new dimension to test taking anxiety...

  102. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by aywwts4 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    "It just doesn't make much sense that the FBI can use this equipment, but that the local and state governments, which the Homeland Security Act has acknowledged as being an important part of combating terrorism, cannot," said Howard Melamed, chief executive of CellAntenna. "We give local police guns and other equipment to protect the public, but we can't trust them with cellular-jamming equipment? It doesn't make sense."

    "Whereas the FCC prohibits the sale of radio frequency and cellular jammers to state and local police departments, the Homeland Security Act consistently and repeatedly directs the Department of Homeland Security to take whatever measures are necessary to empower local law enforcement agencies and first responders in the fight against global terrorism."

    It looks like those wavers you speak of are only semi-obtainable if you are a local swat team looking to do a drug, bomb, or terrorist, bust or some sort. the waivers are certainly NOT IN ANY FUCKING WAY for professors to block their students in a public venue and are ONE HUNDRED FUCKING PERCENT ILLEGAL in that utility.

    Jesus, you trust wikipedia without checking the sources they cite halfheartedly?

    --
    Web Developers: Celebrate to our roots! Animated Gifs and Tiled Backgrounds, dont let our history die!
  103. one old casio/ti calculator = 3-4 days of weed by equex · · Score: 1

    Let them shell out for some old graphics calculators. Tell them it's just a couple of days of weed/booze/entertainment consumption anyways, they surely find the money for that. If they're interested, it wont be a problem.There must be some retailer somewhere who has a bunch of older models in a box somewhere. Other than that, students has to respect the language of the college,and by now they would surely have had the chance to buy, you know, a dictionary. (yes a book). Third, you can get fancy and make a few sets of tests with slightly different parameters for each question. (ie Sally gets x=4 and y=7 while Rodriguez gets x=3 and y=6; what is the sum of x squared and y squared) That will take away the usefulness of communicating during the exam.

    --
    Can I light a sig ?
  104. Trust by Redlazer · · Score: 1
    Be honest with your students. As a student who wasn't allowed to use his smartphone calculator during an exam, I definitely know what I want to hear first:

    "You can use any non-networked device. If your device is connected to the network or internet, disable that connection. Anyone caught using a device's networking functions during the exam will receive a warning, and then fail the exam on the second offense. It's an open book exam people - you don't need to use the network."

    If people are prepared, and you aren't a douche about it, almost everyone will listen. Even if you implement some other rule or supply some other device, the same few people will get away with it either way, and only one of them is really easy.

    -Fred

    --
    Guns don't kill people, "with glowing hearts" kills people.
  105. Re:Communal Calculators by apoc.famine · · Score: 2, Informative

    You don't know about wolfram alpha, do you? Let me educate you...

    Question 4) Integrate x*sin(x), graph this curve. If you were to express this as a Taylor expansion, what would the first three terms be?

    See the problem now? If you can't pass calculus with a tool like that, you're not ever going to pass any math class. Between the ability to do each part of the integral separately, and the ability to google "integration by parts", if you are connected to the internet, you pass everything.

    --
    Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
  106. Its Physics! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Me thinks the physics student that can't adapt to an unfamiliar calculator, is perhaps not cut out to be a physics student

  107. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by Mr_Silver · · Score: 2, Insightful

    > Well, I am not sure that this is the right approach

    Der... ya think?

    Jamming cellular signals is a federal crime.

    What a jackass.

    Ahhh Slashdot, the only place where nerds can post smug smart ass responses to a suggestion and neatly avoid the real life consequences of being punched in the face for being such a dick.

    In the US, you can apply to the FCC for a permit to operate a jammer. It may be worth a go although I have no idea how likely it is they'll grant you one.

    --
    Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
  108. Re:Wait, they don't understand that math is requir by Nemyst · · Score: 1

    I'm in physics in Canada and there's absolutely no calculator allowed. All you have is a pencil, an eraser and a sharpener/additional lead. But I don't think you meant physics as much as you meant engineering, where there'll obviously be more numbers. People don't have TIs in physics, they have a basic Sharp scientific calculator.

  109. Another professor... by kakapo · · Score: 1

    I am a professor, and for large "entry level" classes, I let students bring their own notes and print-outs of model answers on the homework. But absolutely no electronica of any sort.

    If asked, I would permit a hard-copy dictionary between English and a student's native language. So far, no-one has requested this (we have a good number of international students, but usually with superb English).

    I set questions that can be answered without a calculator, and I will accept an unevaluated cosine or similar function, even if it is primarily a numerical question.

    My original plan was to permit open book, until I realized that some students had only on-line PDF versions of the text, so that idea went out the window.

    I am not really worried about students trying to learn the subject on wikipedia in the course of a three hour exam -- if you don't know it coming into the room, you are hard put to learn it while you take the exam. But since net capable devices can also facilitate messaging, I have no choice but to ban them, if I am to maintain the integrity of the exam.

    Homework counts for a big chunk of the grade -- and there I encourage collaboration. The exams are there to make sure that the collaboration does not get out o hand :-) (And I warn the students of my policy early in the semester)

  110. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by Mike+Kristopeit · · Score: 5, Insightful

    perhaps you haven't heard of ad hoc networks.... even inside a faraday cage, as long as one student is willing to help others cheat, all students are capable of cheating.

  111. International Students by estitabarnak · · Score: 1

    It seems that all too many posters are ignoring the fact (or ignorant to the fact) that the non-English speaking students being referred to are almost certainly international students. These students come from other countries, in many of which English is not a primary language, to attend reputable universities and obtain a degree (often in a technical subject). They must have some understanding of the English language to survive, but it is understandable that they would need to look up some words. The goal of the phsyics exam here isn't to test their knowledge of English so much as the mastery of the concepts discussed.

    These aren't unintelligent kids who somehow wiggled their way in to a university. These are intelligent people with a lot of potential who may not, at the moment, be masters of the English language.

  112. Cheapo *scientific* calculators for all by goodmanj · · Score: 1

    By way of introduction: I teach intro physics in a similar environment. To add to the difficulty, our campus's honor code requires professors to give unproctored exams, so I can't watch them, but that doesn't stop them from trying to cheat.

    Anyone who says "design better tests" isn't paying attention to the possibilities of mobile technology. It's easy with a modern smartphone to photograph each page of the exam sheet, send it to a paid test-taker, and have them send you back an image of their solution, in enough time and in enough detail to ace the test, and in a way which is undetectable unless you're literally right over the student's shoulder.

    The only solution is an outright ban on uncontrolled technology. Your idea of buying 30 simple 4-function calculators is a good one, but any good intro physics class will require trigonometry, square roots, etc.

    I say, have your department buy thirty cheap *scientific* calculators -- for example, the TI-30xa costs like $10 each. Tell your students they're welcome to familiarize themselves with this type of calculator before the test: they may choose to use them for homework problems as well: that way lack of adaptability will be no excuse.

    As for dictionaries: they still make those on paper. So long as you warn students about these rules at the start of term, rather than surprising them a day before the exam, they should be willing to adjust.

    1. Re:Cheapo *scientific* calculators for all by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      "honor code requires professors to give unproctored exams"

      That's hilarious. Someone should be fired. Trust. And verify.

  113. The answer: Log tables! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm sure these are a dime a dozen :). Environmentally friendly and perfectly readable under direct sunlight!

  114. ESL Department by fandingo · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The main problem here is foreign students. I recently graduated from the math department, and many students had basically no understanding of English.

    I really disagree that non-English-speaking students should be allowed in American universities. I just didn't get the feeling that they participated in the classroom at all. However, that's not how things work, so I'll be more pragmatic.

    Since there are many students with little understanding of English, there are ESL departments that can be good resources. They might have a recommendation on acceptable translators. And, while it might not help you right now, you might be able to convey recommendations (ex. no network capabilities) that the university can provide to incoming ESL students. Then, you won't have as much of a problem in the future.
    If it really turns out to be a problem, then in addition to spare calculators, you might need to provide a few spare translators that students can use if they forget theirs or bring an illegal one.

  115. Make the cheap calculators a requirement by SilverJets · · Score: 1

    Pick a cheap calculator that will do everything necessary for the course. Then make it a requirement for them to buy it. It is the only electronic device allowed for exams, no other devices allowed at all....no exceptions. Your students will learn to survive (isn't that what college is all about anyways?) and if they can't pass your exam because of ESL issues then they shouldn't be taking your course or attending your college in the first place. That's their failing not yours.

  116. What about HP and RPN calcs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have a hard time using cheap calculators these days. My dad trained me on HP 41s and I went through school using an 48g. While cheapo calculators are fine some people (like me ) never became fast at using the common calculator entry system. While I can send messages using my calculator it is not worth it because it takes to long. No phone, no Ipods, just calculators .. problem solved.

  117. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by Mike+Kristopeit · · Score: 1
    combating students cheating to obtain a degree to further empower individuals of sleeper cells could easily fall under the vague empowerment granted by the homeland security act... that is why it's dangerous and ignorant legislation.

    your halfhearted statement of law without extrapolating it's potential to cover the very situation you are claiming could not be possible is fairly hypocritical and dickish.

  118. Consistency by ysth · · Score: 1

    Ask your dean to set a policy. It is far far better that there be some consistency between professors than that you have the perfect balance of allowing/forbidding electronic helpers.

  119. Good Tests and Bad Calculators by kylerowens · · Score: 1

    I've got a Physics degree and I currently tutor lower level college physics, so I've seen a hell of a lot of physics tests.

    The best solution to your problem is a low tech one. Crappy scientific calculators. In my opinion you're already giving your students a huge advantage (too huge IMO) by giving them notes, they shouldn't need any fancy devices. I got my degree before the days of smartphones and the like but I did have my trusty TI-89 and for me this wasn't a good thing. Having such a powerful calculator only served to prevent me from actually learning the material. If the calculator can do everything for you you end up just teaching the students how to plug in numbers and write down (likely wrong) answers. It may get them through the class but they won't be any better off than they were to begin with. You may as well try and use mad libs to teach them to write.

    Proper test design is the key. Come up with generic problem that you want, but then tune the numbers so that you get a lot of cancellations if the student is doing it right. Use polynomials and trig functions where integrals/derivatives are required, don't expect students to know integrals that you have to look up for yourself. If a student knows what they are doing then they shouldn't need a device that can do much more than any $10 scientific calculator. If they don't know what they are doing then they shouldn't get the grade that says they do.

    As for the ones that say they need it for translation purposes, they're taking advantage of you. If they really are that bad with English then they've got no chance of getting through most of their other classes. That said, a picture is worth a thousand words. Most physics problems, especially mechanics ones, should be pretty easily represented by a drawing, and that requires no translation.

  120. Seal the whole room in Lead by drfreak · · Score: 1

    Not only will Superman need to take the same test as everyone else, there is the added bonus where anyone who gets lead poisoning is obviously attempting to cheat.

  121. General Suggestions on Teaching Physics by bgoffe · · Score: 1

    If you teach physics, I hope that you've looked at what Physics Education Research (PER) has done. These physicists have shown how to teach this difficult subject much more effectively. One nice starting point is "Why Not Try a Scientific Approach to Science Education?" http://www.cwsei.ubc.ca/resources/files/Wieman-Change_Sept-Oct_2007.pdf .The author, Carl Wieman, has a Nobel Prize, was Carnegie U.S. Professor of the Year (research universities) and is currently Deputy Science Adviser to the President (for science education). If you're into video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwslBPj8GgI is quite good (the lecturer, Eric Mazur, is "only" a full professor at Harvard; of course there are many pubs too). Finally, the general portal to PER is http://www.compadre.org/per/ .

  122. Walk around the room by syousef · · Score: 1

    Make it clear that communication during the exam isn't allowed, and walk around the room during the exam, or pay an assistant to do the same.

    If you suspect a student is using chat or the phone, confiscate it for the duration of the exam. Warn them in advance that this might happen, and relying on the device is at their own risk.

    Problem solved

    --
    These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
  123. Evidently you're not a science/math student... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The vast majority of exams in physics, math, and engineering courses are open book, open notes. Still, some of mine had averages below 50 (and this is after all the cramming, review sessions, and practice exams).

    Really throws a wrench into the whole "math is just memorizing equations!" argument from liberal arts majors.

  124. Allow appropriate tech, catch cheating old way by spopepro · · Score: 1

    I think that if you wish to allow students to use appropriate technology, then it's acceptable to draw the line somewhere and your school may give some guidance on that. When I taught at UCSC only a simple scientific calculator was allowed for all lower division physics, engineering and math courses. Therefore, everyone owned one, and knew about it ahead of time. I don't advocate this, but it works. I like to allow students to use the most powerful appropriate technology.

    My last semester of teaching at UCSC I noticed some suspicious behavior in the Calc 19A (first quarter, higher track, 250 students) final. I made a quick note of names, and when grading the tests found that there were duplicate wrong answers, answers with work that was going in a different direction, conspicuously absent steps and random work placement on the page, all which seem to confirm that they were cheating. Sent the formal letter requesting a meeting with the students and got back an admission of guilt from each. Cheating using wireless connectivity isn't any different than passing notes, sharing a calculator with answers not cleared off or peering over a shoulder. The students still look suspicious, and have bad work and answers that betray their dishonesty.

  125. The OP already has the right answer by Amlothi · · Score: 1

    I'm thinking of buying 30 el-cheapo four-function calculators out of my pocket, but I'm afraid that less-adaptable students will be unable to handle the switch from the calculator they know to an unfamiliar (but simpler) one."

    If they need a computer to do everything, and are incapable of using a simple 4 function calculator, then they haven't really learned the material...have they?

    The simplest and most logical answer is usually the best one. Allow simple 4 function calculators during the exam. All other devices are prohibited.

    --
    ~A~
  126. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 1

    Yet, combating students cheating only increases their motivation to actually study and learn the material and become leaders of their sleeper cell, if anything this enables terrorism.

    Wow, I always knew there was something wrong about college professors.

  127. Oh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You teach Physics. Write a physics exam, not a math one. If a calculator is needed, you probably wrote the exam wrong.

    Students who can't speak, read, and write in English shouldn't be enrolled in colleges where the de facto language is English. Is there any employer in (say) Chicago that doesn't expect a graduate from (say) the University of Chicago can speak English? I doubt it.

  128. Enforcement is not free by davidwr · · Score: 1

    Rules keep honest people honest. If you have people determined to cheat, they will find a way unless you make it too difficult.

    Anti-radio paint is pretty hard to defeat.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  129. Wi-Fi use list? by weaponx71 · · Score: 1

    If the University's Wi-Fi is going to be used, couldn't you just have your IT department give you access even limited access to the logs for the nearest nodes of the network? After the test starts, take a reading, got users that are in your class, call them out. Collect names of objects with net access first day, match that to the student. Sure you might get some jackhole that finds out the name used on a classmates device and spoof them, but after looking at the logs and a visual check of the supposed offending student would tell you the truth. Sounds rather simple to me, but that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

  130. Who cares how they feel by bm_luethke · · Score: 1

    They are in college - if they can't adapt to "no devices with wireless access" then they do not deserve their degree - even more so in a highly technical field that requires the ability to adapt to new information for their whole career. They are going to complain anytime you take something away that would make things easier, further the ones planning on cheating are going to *certainly* complain if they think it will get their ability to cheat back.

    Pick an inexpensive calculator that can do the math needed - there are a plethora of them on the market - and require it. It's going to be cheaper than their text book anyway. Your math department probably already standardizes on one. If someone wants a different calculator take it on a case by case basis (for instance I have several of the older HP's that I MUCH prefer over any other calculator on the market - no reason why I couldn't use them and I never had professor that tried to force me to use TI's - I just couldn't get help on how to use it from the teacher. Since I had done assembly programming on the processor I can't say I found that an issue :)). If someone complains like your English as a second language person - point out that we have things called "books" that have that very same information in them too.

    It's not really a hard problem, it is only hard if you think the students complaining are being reasonable. They weren't when I was in school, they weren't when my professors were in school, and they aren't now - most never have been in the history of this type of education. Indeed, my experience is that my generation - high school class of 1993 were the first to really start hitting a decline (my generation didn't walk to school barefoot uphill both ways in the snow - we demanded a snowmobile and the state grate a level road out!). Much before that and in my field (CS) but not my specialty (FLAC and Parallel Algorithms) I couldn't follow a well written thesis beyond the introduction, conclusion, and noting their process (that is as it should be). When I was in school in many disciplines totally unrelated to mine I can not only follow a *dissertation* but in many of the "softer" courses I'm certain I could have written them. It's even worse now.

    There are still really bright motivated students - look at what they are doing to see if you really need too. If the person who is there because they love the field and would be doing it even without the education is complaining then take note. If the person who is looking for a degree and a good salary is complaining realize they are usually out for the degree to get a position and are looking for the path of least resistance to a good salary (most not even realizing that the good positions are going to go to the person who loves it, not the one who sees it as a distraction from and source of money to do what they really want to do). Your job isn't to make them feel good or be happy, it is to instruct them and ensure that they can meet the requirements for that career - if they want a job there are better ways to do it (and most of those will end up paying better in the long run for them too).

    You will not be liked by most students (after all most will take the one that lets them cheat over the one that forces them to learn) and depending on your department you may not be able to do that. I still keep in touch with some of my professors from time to time and I know that they base funding partially on the percentage graduating the course work - as such there is tremendous pressure to graduate instead of teach. One of the constant complaints is that they can't balance the requirement to graduate with the requirement to have highly employable graduates. I can assure you that a number of my professors were certainly "old school" in how they approached your course work (I'm dyslexic and it was tough to get concessions for that at first, though once they knew me well enough to know I sought out the hard courses and I wasn't trying to cheat they gave me whatever I asked for).

    --
    ------- Sorry about the spelling, I suffer from two problems. Dyslexia makes it difficult to spell well, lazy makes it
  131. ONE WORD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Memorization!
    Some one above stated that you should be able to use whatever refs you need. That is true in the professional world. But in school you are showing that you have READ and studied. You don't need a calculator to show that! The answers can be given in symbolic form, with appropriate graphs drawn, by showing what the curves look like.

    I took a control systems class (400 level) calculators we're useless. (Hehe the prof said you could use one if you wanted to . . ., but knew if you resorted to one you were lost anyway !)

    The test was brutal, but if you knew the stuff, you could do it. hehe i failed the first two times (glutton for punishment that i am), but got a B+ the third time. I had finally *learned* the material.

    Once you *understand* what's going on you realize calculators really are useless in a proper exam.

  132. no electronics by Goldsmith · · Score: 1

    I've heard the "I use my phone as a dictionary" line before; "I use my phone as a calculator" was even more popular. It's also used for Google and IM, which is not good. Modern graphing calculators are insane, and it's really unfair to ask students to buy one. The books are expensive enough.

    My personal favorite is to require them to take the test in the computer lab, where I know what they're doing and they all have access to identical tools. My rule is if I can see your phone, or some other personal electronics, you are cheating. Period. (That's for the popular: "I just left my phone on top of my backpack" routine.) Books and notes, any paper, is ok. If I see electronics, you fail. Everyone is warned before I pass out the test to either give me their phone or put it away where I can't see it. Don't leave any room for debate of the rules in the middle of the test, students these days are very good at arguing.

    1. Re:no electronics by jirka · · Score: 1

      second to that

  133. Calculators by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    At my community college in NC, the TI-83/84 is considered standard for math/physics classes. Everyone has one. Even the public schools use them for the their math classes, so students moving on to college/university are already familiar with these models. The TI-89 is acceptable for non-calculus based classes. All other electronics have to go. As far as English as a second language is concerned, TOEFL is a fairly common requirement. That said, for students who are less than fluent in English, mathematically, it should not matter as the number 2 is the the number 2. I think it is the responsibility of the student to meet the requirements of the college and the instructor. Meaning, the student did of his/her own voluntary action, enroll at the college.

  134. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by Mike+Kristopeit · · Score: 1
    did you graduate from college? if so, i see nothing wrong about the college professors entrusted with imparting an understanding of logic to you... you are absolutely correct.

    when a government body is given vague empowerment with no checks or balances, all systems of justice are inherently undermined.

  135. Make it illegal! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When cheating is illegal, only cheaters will cheat.

    Honestly, you can try your hardest to dissuade people from cheating, but in the end all you're doing is hurting the students who truly need their electronics, such as the Korean study who needed their dictionary. Granted they could bring in a paperback, but it's 2010, we need to find better ways at handling technology in the class room.

  136. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, it depends what country you are in. In Japan it's legal to do on a small scale (f.e. in your restaurant or movie theater).

  137. Re:Communal Calculators by kccricket · · Score: 1

    With tools like that, do we really need math classes?

    --
    * chirp * chirp *
  138. Let em use whatever they want, catch em. by xianthax · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Let em use whatever device they want and lay out the rules for no communication or internet access.

    Be vigilant, Make it a goal to catch the cheaters.

    At the end of the day the college degree you get is just your ticket in the door at a company, If you really know your stuff your performance will take you far.

    If you know how to find the answer to a problem by tapping your network of contacts you will likely go farther. (the cheating your worried about)

    If you can't figure out how to cheat on a physics test in college your probably going nowhere so weed these people out.

    In all seriousness i would rather hire the person who found some elaborate way to cheat while avoiding detection than the person who worked for 3 weeks to get a B on the test. The enterprising cheater is probably far more inventive but was just bored by the material, thats a skill set that I can work with. Working for 3 weeks to pass a basic physics test isn't.

    1. Re:Let em use whatever they want, catch em. by j-beda · · Score: 1

      There is a societal cost though in rewarding those who work against the community rules. I agree that we want to promote "outside the box" and "innovative" thinking, we also want to develop in our kiddies a certain respect for the rules we as a group put together. I would much rather live in a society where most individuals think that stealing my wallet is "wrong" rather than a society where most individuals think that sealing my wallet is ok, as long as they do not get caught.

      As for who to hire - anyone stupid enough to let slip that they cheated on an intro course is not someone I would want to work with. Luthor is always going on about how his latest scheme will work and then backstabbing his partners. At least the "slow but steady" can be counted on to actually do some work and finish the project.

    2. Re:Let em use whatever they want, catch em. by xianthax · · Score: 1

      the fact that you really think that 'we' make the rules is hilarious.

      The rules are not made by the people, they haven't been for 75 years. (talking

    3. Re:Let em use whatever they want, catch em. by j-beda · · Score: 1

      The "rules" I am mostly talking about are the ones like "don't fart in the elevator" and they are made by "us" when we glare at people who so fart and whack our kid on the head if they do so as they are growing up.

      "Don't steal people's lunch from the break-room fridge" is another one that is nice to encourage in the office.

  139. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by Tjp($)pjT · · Score: 1

    Aluminum screen and at the edges folded and hammered in place, and then the windows covered in conductive film. Then bond it all together without allowing some capacitative effect feed through you didn't anticipate. And make sure it is properly grounded. Don't forget the conductive gaskets for opening like the doors and windows... It all gets rather expensive, even "on the cheap"... Consider allowing a small number of devices that have airplane mode, and taking the device out of airplane mode (or enabling wifi in airplane mode) is visible on screen so the proctor walking up behind folks can note the state, if they know the devices, hence the small number of allowed devices. But it is easiest to make it a point at the beginning of the class that all the tests will require a non-networkable device. Then no surprise at the end of the quarter/semester when you tell the students the sad news ...

    --
    - Tjp

    I am in wallow with my inner money grubbing capitalistic pig. ... Oink!

  140. What's the Level of Exam?? by s0litaire · · Score: 1

    Is it just me but if they "Require" the use of a expensive graphic calculator that has Wi-Fi/3G access then they deserve to fail when given a bog standard Calculator!
    Give the students a "{insert their language} to English" Book if they get stuck with the translation of words...

    If they can't adapt then it's either a failure of the lecturer or the course or they deserve to fail...

    --
    Laters Sol "Have you found the secrets of the universe? Asked Zebade "I'm sure I left them here somewhere"
  141. disallow all devices by jirka · · Score: 1

    I simply disallow any electronic devices during exams. I tend to give no-notes exams and ones where you definitely do not need a calculator (if you need a calculator, you're doing something wrong). My feeling is, that if you can't get through an exam without your iphone, something is terribly wrong.

    Don't worry about people dropping your class for weird reasons, people always do that. Then they make it sound like it is your fault. If I had a nickel for every student that dropped my class for some weird reason ... I could probably buy a big mac or some such. You know there was a time when there was no iphone or ipad, and people still managed to pass exams.

  142. Re:Also by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just like it's part of the USA's culture to go around shooting each other in the streets.......

    Wait did I just stereotype "USA'nians" (yes there are more Americans than just the USA)....Sorry, it must have been the theme of this thread that made me do it.....

    Nope they are North Americans, and South Americans. How many other countries on those continents have the "America" in their countries name?

    You may refer to them as Brazilians, or Panamanians, or Cubans, or Canadians, etc.

    Your just an American hater, wanting to be a douche.

  143. Easy - no crap allowed by grouchyDude · · Score: 1

    Just say no devices at all. It fair, even-handed and realistic. Make an exam that doesn't put such a premium on mindless calculations (for example allow them to submit an expression such as 112*121/11 instead of computing the result). More emphasis on brain and mind, less on fingers.

    Oh, and the can use their mind as a dictionary too.

    Sheesh.

    1. Re:Easy - no crap allowed by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "(for example allow them to submit an expression such as 112*121/11 instead of computing the result)"

      That's the problem when you have a life of using calculators. If you were even slightly comfortable at using your brains (you know, the part of your body you are expected to exercise at a University), you would have seen immediatly you don't need a calculator for something as simple as 112*121/11 (hint: 121=11*11, therefore 112*121/11=112*11 -of course, you'll probably say you need a calculator for 121*11 too).

  144. Don't overcomplicate it. by kurokame · · Score: 1

    Most of my physics classes either allowed any calculator the student wanted short of something capable of running a CAS, or allowed NO calculator use. As long as you're consistent and let people know the exam rules well in advance (i.e. in the course syllabus on Week 1) then no one has any reasonable cause to complain. And really, the only physics exams where a calculator should be necessary are the freshman survey courses - if there.

    As far as other devices like translators - they should only be allowed in exams if they're approved on a university (or at least departmental) level. Otherwise you're buying trouble. These things are not your responsibility. The university has presumably already made a determination that the student is competent to take courses taught and tested in English. You are not only creating potential exam security issues, you are also opening yourself to complaints from the remaining students since this creates a bias which is inconsistent with university policy.

  145. Not that hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Given that most wireless access points have client lists, and the access point they are going to get coverage too is likely to be in the room:

    1. Disallow cell phones
    2. Disallow 3g cards in computers
    3. Come up with list of mac addresses of computers in the room.
    4. Record traffic over the AP in the room.
    If you see google searches for questions in traffic, match mac address back to student mac addresses.
    Even if it is over SSL, you will still see what host names/etc they are communicating with, and their is a fairly obvious difference in traffic between a mail client checking mail and using gmail for IM, etc.

    1. Re:Not that hard by brock+bitumen · · Score: 1

      i think technically that's more difficult than it sounds, especially for physics faculty (ie, not cs faculty....)

      but this is probably the best solution.

      "you can use whatever device you want as long as you don't use the cell network, and you declare you mac address"

  146. Oral exam by Spazmania · · Score: 1

    Ask each student to orally explain three selected concepts you taught in the class, sans everything. No books, no calculators, nothing. The questions are pass/fail and are selected so that anyone passing the class should be able to offer a competent answer. Deliver satisfactory answers and you get whatever grade you earned on the tests. Demonstrate a lack of competence (since you cheated on the tests) and you fail the class.

    --
    Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
    1. Re:Oral exam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This method works great if you have a small class where you are able to communicate with everyone in the class daily. This way you don't have to worry about people stumbling over an oral exam due to some anxiety (since they are already very familiar talking to you). You need to be especially careful doing this if you have a large class and/or attendance is not required. As a college senior now, I can say I've seen several examples of people never showing up to a class with no attendance requirement or required homework and then paying a friend to go to the final in their place.

  147. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by shermo · · Score: 1, Funny

    If I mod you +1 informative will you promise not to hurt me?

    --
    Insanity: voting in the same two parties over and over again and expecting different results
  148. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    'In spite' means 'despite'. I think you mean 'due to'.

  149. Multiple Exams... by AvenNYC · · Score: 1

    Give out 3 different tests with similar questions, change the order of the questions, or both. When people start cheating you'll have a 2/3 chance of them getting the answer from a different version and you'll know immediately.

  150. Ban all electronics. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I had the exact same thoughts on Saturday when I dropped my son off for college entrance exams.
    My little 4-function casio looks harmless enough. The proctor would never know how modded it is.
    My computer-on-a-pen is a great cheat, too. Trace the question out, and it projects my writing via blue tooth to the android phone in your pocket, which relays it anywhere you need. Still working on a better solution for getting the answer back. The morse code vibrations are a big hack right now. It's ok for multiple choice, but gets cumbersome beyond that.

    At some point testing centers need to ban all electronics and provide their own. You can pick up your hearing aid or pacemaker on the way out.

  151. Course rubric by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you provide a course rubric at the beginning of the semester (and if you don't, you should start), simply stipulate that the only allowable electronic devices during testing are Devices A, B or C, all of which can be purchased for cheap at the local Office Supply Store Of Your Choice. Deviation is an automatic fail.

    Bonus marks: Offer to buyback when semester ends, and sell to the next class. Maybe turn a little profit while you're at it.

    Super-extra-bonus: Get consensus with the rest of your faculty, so students only need to buy one device for all their classes.

  152. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by vtcodger · · Score: 1

    ***As long as you don't mind the possibility of spending a year in federal prison and a $10K fine for each of the several violations you'd be guilty of by using them, assuming you're in the U.S....***

    Hogwash!!!. First of all, Wi-Fi is not an exclusive user of the bandwidth (look it up) and second, there is zero chance of being prosecuted. If you want to be persnickity about it, one can find legitimate devices that have some legitimate use and clobber Wi-Fi as a side affect -- RF lighting for example -- and turn them on during testing.

    But that's not a great idea unless the neighboring areas are inhabited by folks who are OK with their wi-fi being killed during test periods.

    First step is probably to talk to the school IT folks. Maybe they aren't wild about the idea of Wi-Fi in that classroom area anyway. Or maybe they can provide a list of devices that log on during test periods. Or, who knows? Anyway, they might have a simple answer.

    --
    You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
  153. iPhone graph calculators are way better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The graphers on the iPhone (and other phones, there's even a J2ME app somewhere) are much better than what any calculator can give you. Colour screen (Makes it enjoyable to view different graphs), Retina display (no more blocky graphs!), and a good processor. Oh, and touchscreen, so you can move the graph around with your hands.

  154. This does not need to be a complex discussion. by Diaghilev · · Score: 1

    You are a college professor. They are college students. In your syllabus, declare that only four-function calculators will be allowed during exams, and that you will be happy to provide said devices. Disallow all other electronic devices to be visible during an exam. If they took notes on a laptop, they should print them out before the exam.

    This doesn't need to be a conversation about Faraday cages and the legality of blocking wireless signals. You are not expected to babysit your students--both you and they will enjoy being treated like adults, having been given clear guidelines and expectations at the start of the semester. Your efforts to accommodate your students are thoughtful and speak of good intentions, but there's no reason why the notes of a student for whom English is not a primary language cannot include a description of a difficult concept in their native language--especially if the potential need for that kind of information is called out in your syllabus.

    Good luck, though. I mean it.

  155. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by mysidia · · Score: 1

    They may go back to the (oh my gosh) traditional writing the answers on their arms, shoes, or small notes. It's not the technology that needs to be fought, it's the fact that students will cheat.

    Based on the article, the students are allowed to bring in any materials they want. What they're not allowed to do is use network resources (such as 'google it'); unless they google'd that very thing ahead of time, before they knew about the test question, and had saved the top results, of course.

  156. 3D BE SNUB!! by woefulhc · · Score: 1

    When I was taking electrostatics (over 20 years ago) the class was structured such that if you missed every test but handed in all homework and labs you would pass (barely) but if you only did the labs and test you would fail (even scoring 100 % on every test). Additionally there were two types of tests. Basic tests were every chapter/unit fill in the pencil scanner tests (aka multiple guess) Advanced tests were every other chapter/unit and the answers were required to be in a format termed "3D BE SNUB" by the professors teaching the course. 3D BE SNUB is a mnemonic (which did not survive 20 years of neglect). However, I have found two almost identical explanations of it, one from a HS physics teacher, the other from someone who received it from his HS physics teacher. The sadistic side of me says forbid all electronics. Allow them access to log tables, text book, their own notes (or perhaps a 'cheat sheet' below a specified size) and whatever pen or pencil they want. However, even I wouldn't try this for a survey course.

    --
    Paul
  157. Re:Communal Calculators by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

    I'd argue that we do. For example, I was just trying to integrate something along the lines of x^2*e^(-2*x^2). If you don't know about gamma functions, it's neigh unsolvable, even with WA. (Somewhat ironically, the second google link for the gamma function is WA, although the actual engine doesn't seem to use it.) If you do, you can approximate the solution in 2 minutes or less.

    There isn't a reason to require wrote memory of a thousand things. There is a reason to require the knowledge of techniques and approximations, even if you can't spit them out at any given instance. I've run into things multiple times that required a Taylor expansion to solve. If I hadn't taken a math class which dealt with them, I'd never be able to solve those problems. Sometimes WA will do that for you. Sometimes it won't.

    I would argue that with a tool like that, we don't need math classes exactly as they've been taught for decades. We still have a need, however. Knowing that something exists is often all that's required. But not knowing it exists means you're doomed to failure.

    --
    Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
  158. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by ls671 · · Score: 1
    --
    Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
  159. Trying to be a syntax nazi.... by CoolGopher · · Score: 2, Funny

    "unterminated 's' command"

  160. Thinking along similar lines by marcus · · Score: 1

    Why do they need to do arithmetic in a college level physics class? All the work in my physics, thermo, etc. classes was symbolic. No one would have thought an arithmetic aid like a simple calculator would have been of any use.

    --
    Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.
    - W. Wriston, former Citibank CEO
  161. Solving this in the real world by NoMaster · · Score: 1

    Everyone's getting all wrapped up in the technical solutions - why not look at how others have already solved this?

    Basically, my university's rules state:
    1) Bilingual dictionaries only - if your native language is English, and you can't understand the exam paper written in English, tough titty.
    2) Paper dictionaries only.
    3) No specialist dictionaries - you should have at least learned the English terms applicable to your subject.
    4) No inserts, notes, or marginalia in books - highlighting is OK, additional notations not OK. Checked by the invigilators before / during exams.
    5) Standard or basic scientific calculators only - nothing that can store commonly-used functions, formulas, or text.
    6) Specific models of advanced scientific or graphing calculators may be allowed on a subject-by-subject basis - approved devices are listed in the course outline at the beginning of semester.
    7) Anything outside of this is by prior written arrangement with the lecturer or head of department only, on a case by case basis.
    8) No non-approved materials allowed - this includes radios, pagers, phones, mp3 players, multipurpose devices (e.g. iPods, smartphones, etc), or devices not approved under point 6 or 7. Leave that shit in your bag / locker.
    9) All devices allowed under point 6 or 7 must be reset either by or in front of the invigilator or lecturer on request immediately prior to exam commencement.
    10) Regardless, the invigilators are allowed to confiscate any suspect materials devices from a student at any time during the exam, and this is recorded on the attendance sheet. It is up to the student to request return of confiscated materials upon completion of the exam.

    An onerous list? Yup, sure, to look at. In practice it basically boils down to "these are the specific things you can take into an exam; if you need to take something else then get prior approval; if you take anything suspect in, it may be confiscated for the duration".

    --
    What part of "a well regulated militia" do you not understand?
  162. Approved List or Nothing by SmarterThanMe · · Score: 2, Interesting

    G'day. School Teacher and occasional University part-timer (in social sciences and education) here.

    TLDR: Use a preapproved list of calculators and printed dictionaries and materials that they can use.

    I advocate a blanket ban on electronic devices, besides a list of pre-approved calculators, during exams. Students should be allowed to bring with them writing implements, watch and printed dictionaries and that's it. Most obviously to prevent cheating, and for the reason you pointed out: that it's getting difficult to tell whether a device is connected to the outside world or not.

    But secondly, because most of the handheld dictionaries in use by non-English speaking background students at university are rubbish and cause more problems for them (whether they know it or not) than they realise. I have had students at university level turn in essays with grammar and vocabulary use that looked like it had been fed through Google Translate multiple times in different languages before being put onto the page. They're certain that it's right and can sometimes, in fact, give me the original language version (which has happened a few times, but I know very little Chinese or Korean, so it was rather pointless), but the English version is barely readable.

    Printed dictionaries are much more reputable and generally produced by people who have actually done some research in the area. There are some online dictionaries which are also quite good, but internet access isn't something I'd like for my students to have in the exam room. I'm sure you can ask around your staff about decent translation dictionaries and put them on an approved list.

    As an aside, I think it's important that you teach your students not to rely on dictionaries (particularly the bullshit handheld dictionaries). If they're studying in a foreign language, then it's not unreasonable to expect them to gain some mastery in that language, particularly for the technical language (after all, you've been spouting it to them for weeks before the exams come around). Now, if they need support while they do that, then you can point them to the learning centre (or what have you) of your university.

    1. Re:Approved List or Nothing by Archon-X · · Score: 1

      Slight food for thought: Most paper dictionaries have a digital equivalent these days (Collins, Roberts, etc)
      These dictionaries are better than their paper equivalents for a few reasons:
        - No page flipping tedium to get to the correct word (an important factor)
        - Because there are no space restrictions, definitions & examples etc are more detailed
        - They have useful devices such as conjugators and conjugation lookup (meaning if the word was 'found', you'll arrive immediately at the verb 'to find')
        - They have a tendancy to be a lot more up to date

  163. Unnecessary complication... by BrokenHalo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You're all looking at the problem the wrong way around. It should be simple enough to design a test that doesn't need a calculator. The devices are great if you need numeric "answers" to a given problem, but in any kind of assessment there's no need for this. The students can leave their result as an expression, which is actually more meaningful in that it makes it clearer to the examiner as to how the student arrived at it.

    The student shouldn't need to show that he can substitute values in an expression to arrive at a numeric answer. Any idiot can push a few buttons to do that, so it's just wasting time.

    1. Re:Unnecessary complication... by hyc · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A lot of students are bad at algebra simply because they don't understand what to do with x and y in e.g "y = 2x", so you still need at least part of the test to force them to work all the way to a concrete result from concrete inputs. Again, there's a big difference between theory and practice, and people should be learning both.

      --
      -- *My* journal is more interesting than *yours*...
    2. Re:Unnecessary complication... by maevius · · Score: 1

      Yes. In high school. If you can't substitute values, you shouldn't be in college

    3. Re:Unnecessary complication... by russianspy · · Score: 1

      When I read the submission it seems to me that the issue is networking. Students are able to chat amongst themselves and with outside world. Calculators are allowed, it's the network that should be banned.

    4. Re:Unnecessary complication... by xonicx · · Score: 1

      I agree with parent. if you can't avoid numerical calculations, provide printed log tables.

    5. Re:Unnecessary complication... by c++0xFF · · Score: 1

      This seriously depends on the subject matter. My thermodynamics class was very calculator dependent simply because the relevant values came out of a table, where several digits of precision were required to show that you did the calculation correctly.

      Or how about a class that studies iterative solution techniques? Yes, you can come up with a problem that doesn't necessarily need a calculator, but I doubt it will truly assess the students as a test should.

      That said ... maybe the solution in these cases is different. Could it be that a test is the wrong format for the class? I mean, if you really need a computer to do the calculations, maybe a final project would be a better way to assess the students.

    6. Re:Unnecessary complication... by Dare+nMc · · Score: 1

      I know in several of my classes, things like using the correct number of significant digits is important. Also there would be multiple solutions that it is the students job to rule out. I am also a big fan of having a actual answer so that students could more easily determine if the answer makes sense.
      This solution still doesn't provide for the other issues, I guess he could provide the questions in multiple languages.

    7. Re:Unnecessary complication... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      If you can't substitute values, you shouldn't be in college

      I'm sure lots of people graduate from college without that ability, mostly in subjects like lesbian history, basket weaving and Klingon.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  164. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by fluffy99 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    > Well, I am not sure that this is the right approach

    Der... ya think?

    Jamming cellular signals is a federal crime.

    What a jackass.

    Before you spout off obscenities, first you should understand this depends on what country you're in. Also that in the US, the legalities are not clear as the applicable law was written in 1934 and no real precedent or clarification has been set in the courts yet. In fact, the FCC has not prosecuted a single instance of localized cell-phone jamming. One interpretation is that its perfectly legal if the jamming doesn't extend beyond your private property.

  165. Cambridge has the answer by Panoptes · · Score: 1

    The exam regulations of Cambridge International Examinations (CIE) are a good model to follow. No digital gadgets of any sort are allowed. Calculators must be simple - no graphic or programmable ones are allowed. Digital dictionaries are not allowed, but book dictionaries (simple translation, language to language), are. At the end of the day, the examiner (institution or course teacher) sets the rules. As long as they're announced at or before the beginning of a course, students have no cause for complaint.

  166. make them use their brain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From my physic exam at the university:
    Gauss law: the total magnetic flux through a closed surface is equal to zero.
    Give them a crazy to calculate flux and surface.
    If they studied the answer will be zero and take two minutes, the others will finish to integrate for next year exam.

  167. University policy by Captain+Sensible · · Score: 1

    Surely the conduct of examinations is the responsibility of the university or at least the faculty? Why does a lecturer need to be involved in enforcement?

    I was involved in conducting examinations in schools (Year 3 to Year12) and universities for many years. Examination rules were usually set by the state Board of Studies or the university, but the rules I worked under can be summarised as:
    - scientific calculators are permitted, but candidates must demonstarte to the invigilators that memeories are emptied (usually by just switching the calculator off, or by removing the battery)
    - no dictionaries of any sort
    - mobile phones switched off
    - no PDAs or other networked devices.

    Of course there were exceptions specified for particular exams, schools etc but in general they had to be simple and easy to understand given that the invigilators were usually retired school teachers and academics not always from the same subject area.

    Calculators were permitted (actually they were mandatory) but the type was specified.

  168. Re:Not trying to be a syntax nazi :-) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    s/iTouch/iPod Touch

    s/(.+)/\1\//

  169. for international students by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    how about create a list of all the words that appear on the test and release it a few days in advance before the test so the students can translate onto a piece of paper. Remember to keep the words together if they appear together (angular velocity, frictionless surface) and alphabetize the list.

  170. MICROWAVE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A cheap, badly shielded microwave should do the trick. They can run hours without being damaged (when empty) and I've not seen many WiFi devices get past it. I don't know if it would disrupt 3/4G wireless internet, but it's a start. You could also try the brass mesh cage approach, but that seems a bit over the top. There are devices that can detect an active cellular signal. Even some as small as your average promotional giveaway pen.

  171. Torn About Calculators by AtlanticCarbon · · Score: 1

    If I were a professor I would not allow graphing calculators for simplicity's sake. No worrying about functionality or wireless issues. Maybe even mandate a certain model of cheap calculator. They are like $18 dollars these days, nothing compared to the price of a book. No phones. Also for simplicity's sake, I would just include a reference page for formulas that are needed for the exam. No worrying about people making their own cheat sheets and the like. But part of me likes calculators. You'd be surprised at how many students aren't even able to use the advanced TI-89 calculator functions when they have them. It rewards nerdy behavior to let people use calculators, especially when they have to show their work anyway. As others have mentioned, when in the real world aren't you able to use access reference material?

  172. adding is easy, solving problems isn't by saiha · · Score: 1

    Unless you absolutely need a numerical result, why do you need a calculator for physics?

  173. Algebra by spongman · · Score: 1

    get them to answer in terms of the constants given in the question. don't give the values of the constants. don't let them substitute values for them.

    Einstein didn't write E=m * 89875517873681764, did he?

  174. Femtocells for all carriers? by tepples · · Score: 1

    buy a femtocell

    Do they make these for all four major U.S. cell phone carriers (CDMA on Verizon's band, CDMA on Sprint's band, GSM and UMTS on AT&T's band, and GSM and UMTS on T-Mobile's band)?

  175. Stick To Business by DynaSoar · · Score: 1

    "I'm a college physics professor."

    Then your job is to teach physics, not to insure that everyone who gets a grade from you earns it honestly. Your students' job is to learn. If they decide to do a poor job of it, it's their loss. Stop wasting the time that should go to your job, chasing around after security issues. Let them use anything they want.

    Then write your final exam so that rather than solving problems, they instead have to state how they would set up the problem to solve it. No need for devices, thus no devices allowed.

    --
    "I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
    1. Re:Stick To Business by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      "not to insure that everyone who gets a grade from you earns it honestly."

      You're wrong. That is precisely his job. As the professor in charge of a course he is certifying, for every student who passes, that the student has sufficiently mastered the course material to fulfil the requirements of that course.

      A university degree is not suppose to be a certification that you went to a certain place and sat in a classroom for four years. It's a certification that you have certain knowledge.

  176. Arms race by meta-monkey · · Score: 2, Funny

    Back in the day we could use our graphing calculators on exams, but they weren't open book. So I'd store all my formulas in some mock program on there. But then the teachers got wise and started coming around and wiping the memory of everybody's calculator before each exam. So I wrote a program on the TI-82 that mimicked the series of screen prompts and displays required to wipe the calculator memory. Fun times...

    --
    We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
  177. Don't restrict the students, change the test. by ZarfMouse · · Score: 1

    Why not take a different approach. Assume that they'll find a way to bring in networked devices. Design a test for which that doesn't help them.

    1) Include subtle variations on everyone's test so they can't just share answers directly. Everyone gets a unique test, but the problems are sufficiently similar that you can generate the answer keys for each algorithmically.
    2) Make the test sufficiently complex that the only way to finish it on time is by working the problems directly, trying to communicate the problems out to an outside party, letting the outside party solve the problem, and waiting for the answer to come back takes a lot longer than just directly tackling the problem.
    3) Have yourself (and a few grad students if available) walk around and pay attention to what students are doing. It should be fairly obvious if someone is using their iPad to chat with a friend rather than to access wikipedia or do some calculations. Just the manner in which the student is typing should indicate whether they're communicating with someone (lots of typing, short pauses to read) or looking something up (very little typing (queries), lots of reading).
    4) Include graphical aspects to the problems that are harder communicate via text to an outside party.
    5) Make problems where the student has to show their work, not just give an answer. The more words they have to write, the more obvious it'll be to detect patterns of cheating (lots of people with the same words).

    Devices with cameras in them could pose a problem (all the "it takes time to type and typing is obvious" stuff goes out the window). But again, monitors walking around should have a pretty easy time noticing students positioning their devices to take pictures of the problems. Nothing beats monitors.

  178. Instructor with the same issue by bradley13 · · Score: 1

    Any answer depends partially on the official policy of your institution - particularly regarding the international students.

    My usual rules for a course of this type: any standard calculator the students want. That's a dedicated calculator, not a phone or whatever. Any books and papers the students want - which may (obviously) include a paper dictionary for the international students.

    It's laudable that you offer to buy calculators yourself, but don't. The practical reason: It provides students a reason to argue if they fail (his calculators didn't work, I didn't know how to use them). The political reason: schools are only too happy to have instructors donate time and money, because we care about our courses and students - this is a stupid situation that needs no encouragement.

    --
    Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
  179. The language of U.S. federal law by tepples · · Score: 1

    Actually, the USA has no official language.

    Officially, you're right. But practically, the language of the United States Code and Code of Federal Regulations is close enough to an official language for government work.

  180. CA and NM by tepples · · Score: 1
    AC wrote:

    So which states are the ones where the majority of the populace does not speak English?

    This map based on 2000 Census data shows that California and New Mexico have the highest percentage of people who do not speak English. Even though it might not be 51 percent, it's still a substantial minority with which organizations have to deal to stay in business.

  181. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by kauttapiste · · Score: 1

    You can make WiFi unusable, however.

    Yup. Tinfoil, lots of tinfoil.

  182. They do cheat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know several Japanese students that used "dictionaries" to store class notes and other information that gave them an unfair advantage. This was particularly in history and astronomy (where one needs to know lots of dates, etc.) They then bragged about it later, as if cheating their way out of gaining knowledge was something to be proud of.

    Don't let any foreign language student pull a fast one on you. I vote that use of "dictionaries" should not be allowed. If it comes to it, contact the foreign language department to have them help you correct assignments. Doing anything else is opening up a doorway for cheaters, and unfairly punishing those who do have a handle on the English language.

  183. Blocking WiFi... by Anaerin · · Score: 1

    Why not just set up 2 laptops at either end of the room, with Wi-fi NICs using "Virtual" adapters (Or a USB hub with several cheap USB Wi-Fi NICs in), set up ad-hoc networks on every available Wi-Fi channel between them, and ncat /dev/urandom through each interface. That will effectively occupy all Wi-Fi accessible channels, and give no space for any other ad-hoc network to be set up in. Given that they're local machines, they'd affect (at most) the room they're in, so having little effect on the Wi-Fi in the rest of the school. Cell and SMS blocking is left as an exercise for the reader.

    1. Re:Blocking WiFi... by Legion303 · · Score: 1

      Better yet, run AirPwn to push lemonparty and catch the cheaters based on who gasps and/or giggles.

  184. This isn't even about language by commodoresloat · · Score: 1

    The student is in the course so presumably speaks enough of the home language to be able to take such a course. Honestly there are plenty of English-as-a-FIRST-language students in my classes who could benefit from reading a dictionary. There are words on exams that even your native students won't understand, and they don't need a dictionary -- they raise their hands and maybe approach your desk and say "what does insidious mean?" and you patiently explain it. If two or three students ask about the same word you announce it to to the class so that you don't have to keep answering the same question. ESL students can do this too; there is no need to allow dictionaries on tests. But if you do want to allow it -- on an open book test -- then allow a dictionary that is a book. Problem solved.

    For now, anyway. When they invent e-paper that fits on a regular page in a book and can connect to the internet, well, then come back and post another ask slashdot....

  185. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by arivanov · · Score: 1

    Physics professor who cannot build a Faraday cage? Bwahahaha...

    --
    Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
    http://www.sigsegv.cx/
  186. How many students? by xtracto · · Score: 1

    If the original poster has a smallish amount of students, it may be possible to do an "oral" test.

    My calculus teacher in my Bachellors did it this way (we were about 15 persons)

    First, before the exam date the students selected an order of taking the exam. Then, at the test date, the first guy entered the classroom where *only* the teacher was.

    For your test, you had to get one small piece of paper from a bunch, containing 1 exercise (an integral or derivative). You then had to solve it in the blackboard.

    Students were able to get everything they wanted to the exam, including calculators, equation sheets, etc. And, the teacher helped you in some ways while you were solving the problem (if you were not completely lost).

    Because you did not know which problem you would get, you had to study all of them. For me, it was one of the best exams I had...

    Now, on the scoring, the teacher used 2 things to give you a score. First, during the semester, she gave us *a lot* of exercises each week to take home. At the end of the month we had to give them back with answers. Of course we were allowed (and encouraged) to get together to solve them.

    At the end of the semester, the teacher considered the amount of exercises you solved and your overal performance in the "oral" test to give you a score.

    Believe it or not, from around 40 people only 15 of us passed.

    --
    Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
  187. I don't understand... by adamofgreyskull · · Score: 1
    From my experience taking exams in secondary school/university, list of things allowed in the exam room:
    1. A watch
    2. Stationery e.g. pens, pencils, ruler, eraser
    3. Basic 4 function non-programmable calculator or a programmable calculator from the pre-approved list which will be reset to factory defaults before the exam begins by the invigilator/s

    That's it. If it's open-book, they can obviously bring in text-books/notes. If your students need a dictionary, they should either have a dead-tree dictionary or an electronic dictionary from a pre-approved list so that you know it hasn't got wifi. Anything else should be left at home or in their bags at the front of the exam room.

    I don't get why the dictionary is such a big deal either. How many new words come up in a Physics exam that they won't have come across before in the course of their studies. If they're looking up the Korean/Belgian/Spanish for "point mass", "frictionless surface" or "acceleration due to gravity" in their final exam, then I'll bet dollars to donuts that that's the least of their worries. Moreover, any dictionary will probably not help them with those phrases, unless it's a domain specific technical dictionary. Or perhaps you're a cruel bastard who uses Cougars, Comptrollers and Coelacanths sliding down inclined planes in your exam problems? :)

    1. Re:I don't understand... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      If they're looking up the Korean/Belgian/Spanish for "point mass"

      Nobody speaks Belgian. Not even in Belgium.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  188. better yet by commodoresloat · · Score: 1

    he went on to become a teacher after that.

  189. Open book, zero electronics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am a university professor of Computer Engineering. My exams are open book but zero electronics. The rule is simple: paper good, batteries bad. I can't tell what devices do any more so I keep things simple by not allowing any. It is not difficult to design exams that don't require a calculator.

  190. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by wierd_w · · Score: 1

    The obvious solution is to disallow cellphones of any sort, (Sorry asian iPhone users!) and to put several honeypot APs in the room. (One on each channel of the Wifi frequency band.)

    Bonus if the APs are running linux, and are spamming out broadcast beacons at an above normal rate.

    In most consumer hardware with network capabilities, they will connect to any readily available network device that is unsecured, unless directed otherwise. At the very least, they will alert that one is available, which would give away it's networking capabilities.

    You could be particularly nasty, by giving them all SSIDs that match the college's wifi network, as it is likely that all such networked devices would already be configured to attempt connections with that network.

    Such APs wouldnt need network access, in fact, they shouldnt-- You could stick all of them on a simple media cart, and share them with other instructors. Surely the college has some obsoleted APs from their most recent infrastructure upgrades or maintenance? Instead of throwing them out, just repurpose them. It's actually a BONUS if they are defective as network devices! (just as long as devices TRY to connect to them. Worn out buggy POS APs are PERFECT!)

    This approach would legally reduce the quality of service to abysmal levels where the anti-network cart is placed, and would give some added disincentive to try and use Google-- and has the benefit of possibly being nearly free.

  191. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by BlitzTech · · Score: 1

    I'd even donate my microwave.

    Fucking roommate nuking his food... ruins my internet... rabble rabble...

  192. Our solution by willijar · · Score: 1

    Is to have an official approved calculator provided by the university - students can get to handle it in the admin office before the examination. We also provide official foreign language dictionaries for the examination upon request. It is the university wide policy which applies to all examinations and the students are informed up front.

  193. Calculators should not be needed in exams. by twisting_department · · Score: 1

    I don't understand this need for calculators in Physics exams. I spent 3 years in a Technical college in England studying Physics, among other things. This was for old English 'O' and 'A' levels. Then I spent three years in university and end up with a degree in physics. During none of that time was a calculator required for any physics or mathematics examinations. Despite the fact that 80% of your time on a physics degree is spent getting to grips with the mathematics of it all. If you are explaining how various experiments work, describing theories, and deriving various formula for this and that it's all done symbolically, you know, algebra and calculus and all the rest I have forgotten. That's why we have such things. Why would students be wasting their time merely crunching numbers rather than showing they understand what is going on?

  194. to kill wifi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To stop the wifi problems, you can always buy Airtight Airsentry's (basically, they knock all wifi devices offline). But wouldn't help with cell coverage.

  195. Tough being a judge, jury, and executioner by CarpetShark · · Score: 0, Troll

    she said she used it as a dictionary. It gets tough for me to distinguish

    No shit. That's because you're not god. You've no right to judge people guilty and ban their stuff, or even force them to change their behaviour, without investigation, evidence, and a trial. Even with all that, many would question whether true justice was present.

    1. Re:Tough being a judge, jury, and executioner by gujo-odori · · Score: 1

      Uhh, not true. An instructor has the formal right to allow (or not) a calculator or any other device during exams, or even in the classroom at all. That was true at every school I attended, and I imagine it was true at every school you attended and/or were kicked out of. A person need not be God to have that right, or hadn't you heard?

      Hey, you aren't the "Don't taze me, bro!" dude, are you?

    2. Re:Tough being a judge, jury, and executioner by adamofgreyskull · · Score: 1

      E--
      Only reason you didn't get an F was that 1) it isn't completely obvious that you were trolling, and B) because I suspect you may be using an unapproved electronic dictionary and/or a wifi-enabled graphing calculator.

    3. Re:Tough being a judge, jury, and executioner by CarpetShark · · Score: 1

      I suspect you may be using an unapproved electronic dictionary and/or a wifi-enabled graphing calculator.

      Actually, it's an advanced model Texas Instruments Etch-a-Abacus.

    4. Re:Tough being a judge, jury, and executioner by CarpetShark · · Score: 1

      An instructor has the formal right to allow

      You're thinking of rights in a much smaller sense.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_law

  196. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by CarpetShark · · Score: 1

    neatly avoid the real life consequences of being punched in the face for being such a dick.

    Did you just call him a dick? ;)

  197. Provide a calculator by PShard · · Score: 1

    This is a problem, We provide a specific calculator to the students in an exam and don't let them bring in any electronics of their own. It works well as we inform the students very early on exactly which calculator they will be provided with so they can either buy one to use throughout their course (Very cheap as non-graphing) or borrow one from the department. Everyone seems happy with this and I have never heard any complaints. This may be partly because it is a department wide policy and as such all courses are examined in this way so it is expected by the students.

  198. Use official list, consider other devices cheating by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is how we did this on my university:
    Write an official list with devices you accept and tell the students where to get that list. If students want to add devices on that list, they can ask you to extend the list and you check if the device has network functions or not or whatever criteria you need or dislike. Yes, this may be some work but you can use this list again next year.

    Then, right before you hand out the exams you show the list to the people in the classroom and tell them explicitly that only devices on that list are allowed and if you see another device somewhere during the exam, those people will fail the exam instantly. If they fill out the first page with their names etc write a disclaimer on the first page that unallowed devices are considered as cheating and they have to sign the first page.
    Then hand out the exam and while the people write it, you go to everyone and compare the devices on the table with your list, while you are checking the first page.

    I can tell you: 1-2 people will use a device not on that list (even though it might fulfill all criteria). But as the official list should have been online for a long time and you announced officially immediately before the exam to remove those devices, you can kick them out. They were so dumb, that it's ok to punish them. How else will they learn? ;-)

  199. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by rainmouse · · Score: 1

    Why is this suggestion of jamming devices modded Troll? After all its the only cost effective way to prevent both external network penetration as well as student collusion via short band radio transmissions such as bluetooth. The angry post below post using radio jammers being a federal offence is misleading as unless I am mistaken, it is not an offense in the USA if you get permission prior to doing this.
    There is big business in cheating to get a degree these with many online 'companies' offering to write essays (even your thesis) and talk you through your exam via wireless.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8493132.stm
    http://www.ukessays.com/press.php

  200. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by aywwts4 · · Score: 1

    Of which a University has been repeatedly shown to be public space in numerous free speech and other court battles in nearly every jurisdiction.

    Also the FCC is clearly very interested in cell phone jamming, while this article does not say anything about fines to the business owners, only the jamming sellers, I think if a bunch of feds show up in your classroom and going through your receipts you might have other worries.

    http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/04/texas-beauty-schools-cell-phone-jammer-leads-to-25k-fine.ars

    --
    Web Developers: Celebrate to our roots! Animated Gifs and Tiled Backgrounds, dont let our history die!
  201. cheap technical solution by tjanke · · Score: 1

    Unplug the ethernet cable from the wireless access point, and line the walls, floors and ceilings with wire mesh (inexpensive at any hardware store) - instant faraday cage - doesn't have to be permanent. :) And if you think that's silly, I'll bet someone at MIT has done it at some time.

    --
    Cheers, Tim -- Tim Janke Part mad scientist, part lion tamer: sr. software engineer, global team leader, project mana
  202. The problem with asking slashdot is... by Joce640k · · Score: 2, Informative

    You'll get a bunch of geeky hi-tech answers from people who've never left the basement.

    I say get paper dictionaries and basic calculators then ban *all* electronic devices. Warn them beforehand.

    If they can't figure out a paper dictionary and four function calculator it's a safe bet they were going to fail the exam anyway.

    --
    No sig today...
  203. Translators Are Storage Devices by knappster007 · · Score: 1

    At my university we had an issue with some foreign students using their 'translators' to download the entire book before the exam. Translators can be mini-computers with full storage capabilities, even if not networked during an exam. Because we require English proficiency, we no longer allow translator use during an exam. For an open book exam this is obviously not an issue, but something that I was unaware of until this issue arose.

  204. Request a "testing room" by erroneus · · Score: 1

    These are all valid concerns if you are worried about cheating. Perhaps you could work with others in the sciences department to have a testing room constructed... one that blocks and interferes with various electronic signals.

    The "environment" is the problem. Create a new one.

  205. MOD PARENT UP by cyclomedia · · Score: 1

    I agree with parent, get the cheapo calculators upfront and have the students practise with them, tell them it's what they'll be using in the exam, easy.

    --
    If you don't risk failure you don't risk success.
  206. Ban the weird devices by 1s44c · · Score: 1

    Ban everything except models of calculator you know don't do wifi. Tell all students what the allowed models are far in advance of the exam and optionally buy a few to lend to students who can't afford their own.

    What are you testing in this exam anyway? How much the students understand or who can come up with the smartest way to offload their brain functions to a machine?

  207. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by mcvos · · Score: 1

    Understanding it and building it are two very different skill sets.

  208. Exams are basically flawed by xenobyte · · Score: 1

    Put quite simply: They only measure the performance of the student on that particular day. That performance will be the best possible with a lot of subtractions for stuff completely unrelated to the subject at hand, like personal mental state (a lot of people are extremely nervous), the questions in the test (choice of words, order, subjects etc.), the exam conditions (light, heat, cold, people present) and the date and time (female periods, lack of sleep, too many exams on top of each other). In other words: If you do good, the grade probably reflects your potential, but if you do bad you might have just have the same or greater potential than the student who did good, but were caught on a bad day.

    None of these issues in any way reflects the true potential of the student as most of these can be worked around in real life situations where planning and scheduling is possible (indeed essential), thus allowing for the best performance possible.

    The best evaluation is a continuous all-year evaluation based on many, many tests of various types, combined with classroom performance. That way the 'local' issues (bad days etc.) gets evened out over time.

    --
    "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." -- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) --
  209. Cooperation and Competition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why not just give them an exam that's so long and difficult that the whole class can not complete even if they all work together and then grade on a scale but fail them all if they all get the exact same score. Then you can let them have the Internet and you can let work together or they can work by themselves. Those who get the best results under those conditions will get the best results in real life.

    1. Re:Cooperation and Competition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Come to think of it, you wouldn't even need to fail them, just give them a C. There would be plenty of students who would not want a C and would prevent that scenario. Of course the test would be more difficult for the professor to write, but hey, they're getting paid.

  210. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A better approach is to use a Computer-Based Assessment (CBA) system that creates unique test for each student, drastically reducing or eliminating the cheating problem.
    General advantages of CBA systems over traditional paper-and-pencil testing (PPT) have been demonstrated in several comparative scientific works.
    Thousands of Universities and important schools are now using a Free Open Source Software called TCExam ( http://www.tcexam.org ) that is also suggested by the European community.

  211. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by TheTurtlesMoves · · Score: 1

    a Faraday cage to keep out wifi is pretty hard. We had one build in our department some years ago. You could still make a phone call inside. Turns out that the grounding circuit (it was on the 6th floor) was the problem. It was only sovled by building it underground.

    --
    The Grey Goo disaster happened 3 billion years ago. This rock is covered in self replicating machines!
  212. Wrong aproach totally by juasko · · Score: 0

    Instead of banning your students from reading refence materials during the tests, encourage them to.

    I personally had test's where the teachers have allowed the students to bring any materials with them. In my opinnion this is the correct aproach. However it requires of you as a lector to reform your tests acordingly. Instead of testing their memory capabilities of memorating anything you might have taught them, you need to start testing their problem solving capabilities.

    I remember very well one physics test I had, I got a 5 out of 5 possible, scale 0-5. I didn't know the formulas to use, and didn't trust the formulas i had was the correct one to use. But I solved the problem, by drawing some triangles and calculating forses with them instead. My teacher was amused, and watched me doing the calculations. I was the last one to still sit down doing the test, and time was running out, got nervous, last triangle to draw and last force calculation to calculate, and i had a minute left. Due to the stress I constantly drawed the triangle wrongly, erased it and drawed again, same results that i knew was wrong, erased. The lecturer was watching and calculated on his calculator, laughed and watched me doing the triangle wrong way again. Then he said, "No, not that way".

    That sentece opend my mind, I drew the triangle correctly made the calculation and handed in the paper, a few seconds late. It was 1 of 5 or 6 problems to solve in that test. Got 5 out of 5. Later the teacher said, that he liked the way I solved the problem, it's not about knowing the correct formula to use or knowing how to use the formulas. But understanding the problem.

    With this I just wanted to say, make your tests in such way that it forces the students to understand the problem, if they do understand the problem let them use any means they can to solve it. In this way your students will be better equipeed after the exams, than those who have memorized methods for the tests but have no clue of the inner workings of the matters. These studenst who have memorized for the tests, will always perform at the test. But try them once more 6-12 months later on same subject, and they fail.

    Make your test in such way and you won't have to trouble your mind on what gadgets they happen to use at the tests, you wont even need to monitor the tests that much, except from them cheating by looking over an others shoulder.

    An other thing you need to consider is time usage, how much time can you allow your studenst to use in solving the problem, ofcoruse not so much that they could take an online course on the matter while doing the test. But enought to find fromulas and guidance on how to use them.

    It puts you in the situation that you need to carefully consider the construction of your tests, but it will reward you with good students, and intresting test material to review.

  213. You can use Computer-Based Assessment systems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Instead of using the traditional Pen-and-Paper Testing, you can use a Computer-Based Assessment (CBA) system.

    General advantages of CBA systems over traditional paper-and-pencil testing (PPT) have been demonstrated in several scientific comparative works and thousand of Universities and Schools have already switched to them.
    If you are concerned about the price of these CBA systems you can always use a Free Open Source Software called TCExam that currently is the world's most used Free CBA system by important Universities and Schools.

  214. Problems and Solutions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A) Your problem is electronics allow communication to outside of the exam-area. You cannot trust anymore people solved the stuff on their own. But that is what the test is about.

    B) Allow calculators without a memory. What you want to test and CAN test in two or four hours (I have written a fair number of those in physics) does not require a calculator and when/if it does, it's just some "filling in numbers and crunch them in the end". No fancy device needed here. Disallow electronics beyond that since you can never know what else they do (vast libraries of all ever created exams int he world or just a connection to three buddies outside who wrote these exams last term).

    C) Ponder to allow "One/Two/Three/Four sheets of handwritten notes", people have to condense the lecture into that, then. Know that your exam can't be solved with "learning on the fly". If your test asks stuff that you can just copy from that paper (and thus from any textbook) ask yourself if that is what you really want to test.

    D) Allow dictionaries in paper-form. I see no problem with students being able to read and use a book IN ADDITION to their ipods.

    E) Make all those rules clear right at the start of the term ("The exam will be... and this will be the rules") so anyone is aware of them and can adjust and prepare right from the beginning.

  215. Set the bar higher by Archtech · · Score: 1

    Let them use slide rules. Once they have graduated they can indulge in all the fancy electronic equipment they like.

    --
    I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
  216. Just make it approved devices only by kiddygrinder · · Score: 1

    Only make sure this is clear *at the start of the course*, also make it clear that you are willing to help out anyone that feels disadvantaged by this. It sounds like you care about your students and i'm sure 98% of them won't have any actual real life physical issues with this, but helping them out either with extra texts or other language exams are your cross to bear i'm afraid. Either that or stop caring :)

    --
    This is a joke. I am joking. Joke joke joke.
    1. Re:Just make it approved devices only by kiddygrinder · · Score: 1

      also possibly some bear traps, ops

      --
      This is a joke. I am joking. Joke joke joke.
  217. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Obscenities"? Which word do you find obscene? "Think", maybe?

  218. Mod parent informative! by Eivind+Eklund · · Score: 1

    That's a brilliant solution. First useful one in the thread so far.

    --
    Doubting the existence of evolution is like doubting the existence of China: It just shows that you're uninformed.
  219. Purpose is to teach students by noidentity · · Score: 1

    Maybe I'm just out of touch, but I thought the purpose of school was to teach students who are there to learn. If a student is there to learn, he won't cheat. If he's not there to learn, get rid of him, or at least ensure that he doesn't disrupt others who want to learn.

    If I were a student, I'd not put up with being required to jump through any hoops like this. You think I'm there just to waste my time cheating? That's your problem. As long as I'm not disrupting other students, deal with it, perhaps by talking to me so that you can see that you're wrong. If I'm not disrupting anyone else and yet you still require me to jump through hoops, you're disrupting my education.

    But I know that my view on this is very unpopular here, because apparently school is about something very different. Probably one reason I'm not in it.

  220. Slightly more underhaded solution by timothy_haak · · Score: 1

    If you want to try something more underhanded. Scan for the visiable hot spots. Then add your own wifi router with one of those SSID's. You can then see where the students are going or if they are cheating. Though this is a bit underhanded but should be simpler than just blocking. Of course you could just tell the students that you've done this and do nothing which should work as well.

  221. How can they understand lectures? by dejanc · · Score: 1

    I don't get how they can take a class if they don't understand the English required for it. Learning physics is not only learning the equations, rules, formulas and what not, it's also learning the vocabulary of the subject.

    I came to the US for college and I majored in Political Science. I had to prove that I had good written and spoken English by taking TOEFL (Test of English as a Foreign Language) with a certain mark. All other foreign students had to do the same, and those who didn't had to take some ESL courses before starting their regular course.

    A part of my education was learning English and I never requested to use a dictionary during a test, though I often carried an English-English paper one around. All tests I took were on subjects covered in class, so if I didn't understand concepts of e.g. "urban development" or what a "legal brief" is, it sure wouldn't help me to be able to translate that to my own language. Also, as I majored in social science, a big part of my grade was in-class participation where dictionaries electronic translators can't really help.

    I can't imagine how someone can successfully follow a lecture in English and then need a dictionary to do a test on it. Besides, using those electronic translators or even English-Some other language is very dumbing... Jeez, spend 4 years in USA attending a university and go back to Korea without knowing English? Money well spent...

    1. Re:How can they understand lectures? by barzok · · Score: 1

      Jeez, spend 4 years in USA attending a university and go back to Korea without knowing English? Money well spent...

      If it got him that high-paying job back home when he was finished, it was money well spent.

  222. RADIUS by neurosine · · Score: 1

    In most cases where wi-fi is distributed as a cloud it uses a RADIUS server which tracks mac addresses, and can schedule times to allow access. You might ask your network admin to require that all devices be registered before network access is allowed, and it makes sense from a security perspective as well. Once that's done, the devices access can be managed and scheduled....but you might need a 3G jammer as well....nothing is easy, but a great deal is possible with a bit of effort and cooperation.

  223. Simple calculators by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In my university, a short list of simple calculators was agreed between the professors and student representatives. All students know they'll only be allowed to use one of the calculators on the list, so they all just buy one. And they just have to buy one, because the same list of calculators is valid for every course during their entire bachelor's and master's studies.

    And a simple calculator isn't more expensive than a textbook. Especially because the student union buys them in large volumes and gets a pretty nice volume discount for its members.

  224. Empty Head not Helpful by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 1

    First off -- I applaud your use of open-note exams. That is the ONLY real-world way to learn and demonstrate knowledge.

    I could not disagree more. While it is true that we look things up outside an exam you only look SOME things up not everything. Hence even in real life you must have some level of stored information to rely on. This is particularly important when it comes to learning. If you do not have the basic framework of knowledge on which to add new material you are completely sunk when it comes to learning more. It is just as valid to test the core of understanding and knowledge that you expect the students to retain as it is to test the level of understanding and knowledge they can display when allowed to look things up.

    Where the open book exam fails though is that in real life you don't use books so much as the internet and other searchable digital resources. I almost never look things up in paper books: I'll search an electronic paper archive, an electronic book or other digital resource because it is so much simpler. The problem is that if you allow that in your exam cheating becomes so easy your exam becomes farcical.

  225. Two steps by selven · · Score: 1

    1) No ipod touches or iphones, have them use laptops.

    2) Custom Linux LiveCD sans internet features.

  226. Partial Credit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Lots of partial credit. Even if it doesn't punish the person receiving the help the person providing it will be hard pressed to distribute all the steps over a wireless connection and complete their exam in the time allotted.

  227. Real solution: Forbid and detect by EtaCarinae · · Score: 1

    The real solution should be to forbid all kinds of radio/IR transmission during test and to deploy detectors of the typical frequencies used (WLAN/Bluetooh/Cellular). There should be many detectors to be able to triangulate and sort out exterior sources. This shouldn't be too complex. It shouldn't be too expensive in long term either since the problem is global. There should be a market for this kind of gear.

  228. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by iivel · · Score: 1

    Well...the flood of responses about the legality of broad or narrow spectrum jamming has already come up, so I'll skip that.

    I don't have a great solution (yet) for bluetooth, but to kill WIFI: pick your open-source WIPS and spoof deauthentication frames (typical rogue containment) to all unknown devices (train it for surrounding university equipment). Unless the supplicant is an AP that supports 802.11w you'll knock WIFI right out of being usable.

  229. wifi is easily blocked, ban cell-phones by daithesong · · Score: 1

    I think it's fairly easy to make sure the only Wifi channels/networks that are in range are either (a) base stations you set up that are not connected to an uplink or (b) base stations that you monitor by sniffing the traffic to detect any attempt to communicate. You will get at least a Mac address and probably more of anyone trying any kind of communication. Cell-phones are not so easy; but there is no justification for taking a phone into an exam.

  230. Oral exams by geggo98 · · Score: 1
    Replace the written test with oral examination. Or use "mixed" exams: A written test with all students together, followed by an individual oral test, where each student must describe her solution.

    You can't win an arms race in cheating using technology. But you can change the problem space.

  231. Why waste a shoe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just exhale sharply. Duh.

  232. 5ghz wifi blocker ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anyone found a 5ghz wifi blocker ?

  233. Calculators by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 1

    When I went through high school (the 90s), I was told I didn't need a calculator for exams, because we were going for reduced complexity, so "3pi" was a better answer than "9.42477796", and "5 sin 45" was better than "4.25451762". I was told that the questions would be designed so that the fractions would cancel out. They were right, and although I had a scientific calculator I barely used it in my exams. (Which is just as well, as it was solar powered and the exam hall was poorly lit.)

    When I went to university, I was told pretty much the same thing. The university had a ban on programmable calculators, because of the ability to store notes or even equation solving programs on them. In compensation, the maths department bought a big stack of cheap Casio basic scientifics and offered them at about 5 pounds a piece. They made a clear and unambiguous promise that no exam questions would be set that these calculators couldn't do. The majority of my first year intake -- several hundred across the various maths courses for maths students, engineers, scientists and computer scientist -- bought the standard calculator because it was simpler, quicker, and they knew for certain it would do what they needed. Only a minority of these had banned programmable calculators -- most had standard scientifics, but the confidence of having the "standard" model made everyone happy.

    A solar 4-function calculator will cost a couple of pounds/euros/dollars per student -- it's not a hardship to ask them to buy one if the college purchases in bulk on their behalf. Hell, if the college buys on their behalf you could even get a basic non-programmable scientific for about 10 pounds/euros/dollars apiece. That's still nothing compared to the annual spend on books.

    And anyone who can't operate a 4 function calculator because it's "unfamiliar" is going to have major problems in the outside world anyway.

    HAL.

    --
    Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
  234. Give them a real dictionary. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Give them a real dictionary. The interface has been honed and is widely understood and, when the student doesn't have good english, this is known and either (if it's an English exam) required to be better or irrelevant (e.g. Maths).

    A book is also not networkable.

  235. Multiple exams by Tharsis · · Score: 1

    One way to prevent cheating is to make sure there is nothing to cheat, or to add a risk of cheating the wrong answers. Make several versions of your exam, or different exams altogether (you probably have those already). You don't need an ultimate answer to prevent cheating, you just need to increase the risk of failure sufficiently that the majority will not cheat.

  236. You can ignore friction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You can ignore friction. E.g. if you have an extremely weighty object being held up by an air blower and you have it moving at 3m/s and want to know when it will have traveled 12m.

    In that case you can ignore friction.

    I.e. your statement is rather like "I'm pretty sure yuo can't ignore thermal expansion". When you're measuring the height of a human being, how many people ask "what's the room temperature"? Even though a human WILL have thermal expansion on their bodies.

    How many people work out the forces on a sailboat and include the photon pressure from the sun? Yet you need it when talking about satellites and especially solar sails.

    1. Re:You can ignore friction by syousef · · Score: 1

      That's idiotic. You can't ignore friction. An object held up by an air blower still experiences air resistance.

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
  237. Simple: paper & your calculators by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If they want to use a dictionary, tell them they can use a paper one and look at it at the start of the test. Works fine in my classes. At least I know what to look for if someone attempts to cheat with it (i.e. hand-written notes), whereas abuse using an electronic device is hard to detect (especially if in another language).

    If they don't like that stipulation -- too darn bad. If it's too slow for them to use a paper dictionary or to work with whatever electronic crutches they find familiar, then their language skills aren't up to par and they should work on them more before taking the class.

    For calculators, tell them the model they will have access to and get the relevant department to buy a batch that you have control over. Hand them out during the tests. Let them know that they can borrow and practice with those calculators at the start of the course. Ban all other electronic devices -- they are too easily abused.

    The only people that are likely to find either of these arrangements intolerable are the people who were hoping or planning to cheat in the first place.

  238. Test naked ... by Skapare · · Score: 1

    ... to prove they aren't using any gizmos or gadgets.

    --
    now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
  239. Single rule solution by ascari · · Score: 1

    My professor had a simple rule. You could use a calculator or just about any other electronic device - if you already had an A average. People with B or below had to do it the hard way. Win/win: The extra motivation/practice led to quite a few A students. Laziness is such a wonderful motivator for techies.

  240. Time limit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Another factor that folks seem not to be mentioning is the time limit on the test. Removing a time limit can make the test more accessible for people who truly need accessibility, e.g. foreign speakers who may have trouble with some English words, while not disadvantaging any other students.

  241. They should be prevented, I agree. by moondowner · · Score: 1

    At my faculty (www.ii.edu.mk), and almost everywhere on the Balkans, during exams cell phones, pdas, iPods, etc... are forbidden. Only calculators. On some exams even calculators with function drawing capabilities are forbidden because it's the point to show that you know how to do it manually.

    What kind of exam is that with phones and touch based devices? Even if you don't use communication, you can scan the whole book into pictures and read it during the exam. That's cheating.

    "I'm thinking of buying 30 el-cheapo four-function calculators out of my pocket, but I'm afraid that less-adaptable students will be unable to handle the switch from the calculator they know to an unfamiliar (but simpler) one." -- If a physics student can't use a basic calculator, It's time for him first to figure that out, and after that to think on taking the exam.

  242. In a word, sliderules! by Symnron · · Score: 1

    When I took physics, all of our measurements were only accurate to 3 digits for most things. Using a calculator that's good to 8 or 13 digits will actually throw off your calculations and give you bad answers. My physics professor required, and even supplied, sliderules. These worked to 3 digits and made us do a little thinking on the side. We also did open note/open book tests in that class and were allowed to use any reference or resource in the class except other students. This included, as one student figured out, the professor himself. A little unusual but Mr. Gaskins was the most awesome physics professor of all time. Just my 0.02 USD worth.

  243. Check In by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Have a locker set outside the classroom for students to store their devices and/or unneeded materials during test periods.

    Kind of like the requirement to leave your phone outside when you enter a SCIF....

  244. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Right but assuming you put an appropriate time limit on the test, they have their own test to worry about - they can't be copying their answers into an ipod using a scroll wheel and transmitting that to other students.

  245. What a bunch of babies... by Assmasher · · Score: 1

    ... dropped because she couldn't use her iPhone? LOL. Check out a Korean/English dictionary from the library. Worried that his students won't be able to handle the class because they won't want to use his cheapo calculators? FFS people...

    --
    Loading...
    1. Re:What a bunch of babies... by Assmasher · · Score: 1

      iPhone/iPod/iCrap/Whatever...

      --
      Loading...
  246. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by Mike+Kristopeit · · Score: 0, Troll

    face time.

  247. Does it change anything ? by haschka · · Score: 1

    When being a Physics student we had exams where you could bring all the books, laptops, network stuff with you. In reality if you are unprepared all this stuff doesn't help you too. I think there is just no need to deny the use of network enabled devices at exams. What are you examining, the students ability to solve a real world problem or there capacity to memorize by heart? Make real exams and you would not even ask the question.

  248. Dangerous: Thinking? by Timex · · Score: 1

    I'm thinking of buying 30 el-cheapo four-function calculators out of my pocket, but I'm afraid that less-adaptable students will be unable to handle the switch from the calculator they know to an unfamiliar (but simpler) one.

    If the student is in college and cannot "adjust" to using something like a simple four-function calculator, maybe the choice of calculator is the least of their problems. I'd be more inclined to think that maybe college itself is a burden they may not be qualified to carry...

    When I was a kid, I wasn't allowed to touch a calculator unless I could demonstrate that I was able to understand and perform the work without one. The calculator was a tool to facilitate getting the job done, not one to do the work for me.

    People these days think that everything must be handed to them on a platter. Tough cookies for them. If they can't do the work, they will fail the class. It's that simple, and it's really not your problem-- it's theirs.

    --
    When politicians are involved, everyone loses.
  249. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by rvr777 · · Score: 1

    Right but assuming you put an appropriate time limit on the test, they have their own test to worry about - they can't be copying their answers into an ipod using a scroll wheel and transmitting that to other students.

    But that really depends on which type of device we are talking about. Some devices (like cellphones), will let you send files over bluetooth and usually have a search function, making them easier to use for this purpose.

  250. Teach them a soroban lol... by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

    Not really practical unless you have 6 months to bootstrap it. Once they learn to use a 4/1 (or 5/2) abacus to do math, they can do 4-function calculator math (and roots...) in their heads.

  251. TI calculators by cavedweller96 · · Score: 1

    Being one of these students, I know that even in high school they required one of these expensive calculators (specifically TI-83/84). I think you will find most of your students already posses those calculators and those that don't will eventually need one. (even though the TI calculators are extremely overpriced, they are really the only way to go... about $100) I could also see using a dictionary, but an iPod touch or iPhone?! if you've got wifi, they will be all over the internet, Any information they want, they can get... not really the point of the test is it?

  252. Simple by spiffmastercow · · Score: 1

    Just give everyone a different test. Or, more practically, make up 5-10 tests, and randomly distribute them to the students. Let them ask their friends in class for the answers -- they'll just get them wrong more likely than not.

  253. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by jackal40 · · Score: 1

    I recently took a Physics course where the Professor prohibited anything but a standard (simple) calculator, no graphing calculators, no cell phones, and no laptops. Yes, it was difficult to change back to a "regular" calculator after having used a graphing calculator for three years. In the end, we all managed. Prohibit whatever you don't want them using, if they're too upset by it they'll drop the course. This is life and they need to start learning those lessons now (if they hadn't already).

    --
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth. (Stonewall Jackson
  254. Nuke it from orbit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's the only way to be sure.

  255. list of acceptable device by st0ut717 · · Score: 1

    Hi, When I was teaching computer science we created a list of devices that a student can use. Calculator: ti model (ti-36x in may case) Casio model hp model. language device (In your case) Franklin model Brothers model Then you have assurance they are not googleing or im-ing. And you are not changing your test methodology.

  256. It's more work for you but... by argStyopa · · Score: 1

    ...wouldn't one solution be to have at least a half-dozen DIFFERENT tests? You wouldn't have to necessarily even rewrite all the questions. For a 10-question test, write 50 questions, and each test paper has a random 10 from that 50.

    Or be a right sadistic bastard, and give them each the same 10 questions...but with SLIGHTLY different values in the problems.
    Shuffle the problems so that it's not immediately evident.

    I think that would destroy 99% of the cheaters, or certainly make cheating prohibitively difficult.

    --
    -Styopa
  257. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But them some enterprising student will figure out how to plug into the faraday cage to turn it into a big antenna. No, the only way to be sure is to have the students enter the room naked, do a cavity search, and take the test nude.

  258. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by murphyd311 · · Score: 1

    GLaDOS, is that you?

  259. Let them use a slide rule by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let them use a slide rule, nothing else. I got through physics (and chemistry, and ...) with one, they can too. Call it a glucose-powered analog computer. No batteries required.

    Adapt and overcome!

  260. Direct Check by wienerschnizzel · · Score: 1

    The obvious answer to the problem seems to be - check the student's answers directly with them. Meet the students that passed the exam personally one by one and go over their answers with them. It should be obvious within 5 minutes whether the students understand their 'own' answers or not.

    As for the foreign students - do not tolerate too much slack in their English skills. They will have a degree from an English-speaking university, so they should be able to communicate. If I hire an Asian graduate from Duke I expect him to be able to work in an English speaking team and if his lack of language skills slows down the team I'm going to start wondering how he got the degree in the first place and whether I should hire anybody with a degree from Duke anymore...

  261. State the rules on the very first class by dumb_jedi · · Score: 1

    I'm the husband of an Engineering teacher and that's something we already discussed at home. I'm an Engineer myself, so I'm familiar with the requirements of a hard-science course. My advice to you is simply this: do what you think is appropriate and make sure your students understand those rules on the very first class. If you think they shouldn't use an iPod, then say so. If one student drops the course, it's their decision. What isn't fair is to tell a student they can't use their dictionary on the exam. That korean student could have bought a regular dictionary of told in advance she couldn't use the electronic one.

  262. Yes; by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    exams shouldnt be open notes. students would then decide not to study and would rely on their notes for the exam. The point of taking a course, is to learn the contents of that course, and if all the answers are written for u on a piece of paper, then you wont learn anything, even if you did study.

  263. Rasberry Jam by Dexter+Herbivore · · Score: 1

    Only one man would dare to give ME the rasberry! Lonestar!

  264. No Graphing Calculators, etc. by Logical+Zebra · · Score: 1

    I didn't require graphing calculator functionality for any of my college physics classes--I only needed a basic scientific calculator with trigonometric functions.

    Outlaw all electronic devices except (non-graphing) scientific calculators. If a student needs a dictionary, tell him/her/it to get an old-school paper dictionary. The test is open book to begin with, so what's another book?

    --
    I have a bad feeling about this...
  265. similar... by bjk002 · · Score: 1

    I shrank the standard font to a size 6 courier font, then printed to bitmap, re sized the bitmap, lather rinse repeat. I ended up getting 8 standard 8x11 sheets onto a single 8x11 front and back.

    This plus a magnifying lens and voila...

    Of course, the real lesson here is that by the time you get done doing all this work, you have pretty much spent enough time around the material to soak it in such that you really do not need it anyway.

    --
    Opinion:=TMyOpinion.Create(Me);
  266. Four function by slapout · · Score: 1

    "I'm afraid that less-adaptable students will be unable to handle the switch from the calculator they know to an unfamiliar (but simpler) one."

    If they can't handle a simple 4 function calculator maybe they don't need to be in your class yet.

    --
    Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
  267. For Calculus exams: get rid of all calculators by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

    Calculus is about 400 years old. It has been taught for centuries before there were calculators. If somebody can not speak English well enough to take a math exam, then that student should not be in a US school.

  268. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    4 evenly spaced layers of chicken wire covering all of the walls, doors and windows.

  269. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Ass" is not a profanity. "Cock" is not a profanity. Cock-sucking, ass-licking, shit-eating, motherfucking son of a bitch. That is profanity.

  270. Individualized Exams by OldBaldGuy · · Score: 1

    This may not work in undergraduate courses, but I solved this problem in a statistics course for life-science graduate students by creating separate exams for everyone, and allowing unlimited collaboration. I wrote a program to vary the problems and the data simultaneously and gave each student an individual exam, telling them that they had to solve their own research problem but could collaborate with anyone they wanted to. My logic was that in the real world statistics was collaborative and there was little gain in memorizing formulae. A few dumb bunnies didn't get it the first time and literally copied other students solutions, but giving out F's for the test fixed that real quick.

  271. Use the power of the bell curve... by moorley · · Score: 1

    I have had many instructors use this technique. They either have open book or 1 sheet of notes you can use. They open the door to "cheating" if you will but then they stack the deck. In cases of Math and Econ professors they have questions that run the gambit. Say 10% easy questions, 60% appropriate questions, 20% questions a really good student *MAY* be able to answer, and 10% uber or almost impossible questions. So what does this do?

    Well it presents the student with a dilemma. If they have studied and are confident they will be able to answer the 60% competently and then you curve it. You will find those that needed to cheat got themselves stuck on the "unanswerable" questions because they didn't study the material enough to discern the questions in the time frame you provided. Tuning the time limit can take a few tries but you can figure it out in the first year of a new course, much like you usually have to.

    Your safety valve is you are curving the results so it will sort it out for you as well. You can adjust the curve so it doesn't arbitrarily toss folks into the D category. You can also allow for extra credit. Cheaters are lazy and won't use the Extra Credit. If they do they are using the option to learn, which is a self rewarding fix and allows for other paths to learn.

    So how does the above speak to cheating gadgetry? It hobbles them. A cheating student will find their "advantage" will fail them. You can randomize the questions for each class so a key won't do any good or they will over perform which is a red flag for a re-test with the 1 or 2 loaner equipment you have on hand rather than for the entire class.

    Usually the performance gap between a cheating student and a non cheating student is large enough such tactics as above will psychologically "break them" and cause them to go into a failure situation. I've been there without cheating but when I've been overconfident on "open book" or "1 sheet of notes". Trust me. I am good but I was lucky to squeak out with a C. The lack of studying and preparation effectively limited my ability to score based on the questions. The open book / notes could have been used 2-3 times on a hard questions but without being pretty much ready to take the test I hosed myself. Without a firm understanding of the scope of the class this also made me fail math classes. I hated it at the time but to be honest it was an effective test. Math is understanding not just plugging in variables.

    Hope this helps or gives some ideas. Technology is a just a new twist and obfuscation at best.

    --
    "Don't fear death... fear not living..." -me :)
  272. Stupid Students by Dishevel · · Score: 1

    Buy the cheap calculators. You are a college physics professor. If you are real worried about students that can not handle the switch then you are screwed. What are you teaching in that class? If it is anything more complicated than "Look! When I drop stuff it moves toward the floor!" then they will get it.

    --
    Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
  273. Different exams by Isao · · Score: 1

    Just a thought... I suggest a number of different exams (say 4, for a class size of 30?), randomly distributed to the students. This will help mitigate answer copying (unless the miscreants have the same version) - sending a question to get an answer means the answer provider has to do two or more exams, not just their own. You can't eliminate cheating, but you can raise the effort required to do it. This also means more work for you, but so would denying RF or IR comms, crib sheets, etc., and is less technically complex. Use a mix of different questions and the same questions with different parameters.

  274. Absolute agreement... NCLB are you listening? by way2trivial · · Score: 1

    This is my major complaint with 'no child left behind'

    The idea is as idealistic as it is unrealistic

    some children will NEVER go the distance
    some children should be left behind

    trying to leave none behind means all the rest do suffer

    --
    every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
  275. Real simple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ban all electronics during exams that are more sophisticated than a basic, non-programmable calculator and FAIL OFFENDERS (not just for that exam, but for the whole course). Seriously, why isn't that already part of your school's policies?

    Provide or allow standard print dictionaries for those who need them, but really.. these foreign language speaking students are studying at an ENGLISH LANGUAGE university: they should EXPECT to have to attend ENGLISH classes, listen to lectures in ENGLISH, read ENGLISH texts, write assignments and papers in ENGLISH, and sit for exams written in ENGLISH (while providing answers in ENGLISH) and come to school PREPARED for that. It's the STUDENT'S RESPONSIBILITY to KNOW the language THEY CHOSE TO BE EDUCATED IN. If they can't hack it, TOUGH SHIT, that's what ESOL classes are for, and if those aren't enough, they should get their asses on the next airliner home.

  276. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

    Some hospitals and airplanes do wireless jamming all the time.

  277. Standard calculators by IanUtting · · Score: 1

    We provide our students with a simple calculator at the start of the course, so they have time to get used to it during the semester, and then allow only that calculator into the exam. We have a box of spares in the exam hall, so anything which doesn't exactly match the standard model can be easily swapped out, and students who forget theirs don't suffer. We also annotate all exam papers where a calculator is not useful as "Calculators are not permitted" so we don't have to do a compliance check in the majority of cases. Having a list of "approved" models is a pain, because model numbers change so rapidly and students' claims of equivalence are hard to check on-the-fly. Ian.

  278. School is not supposed to be like work by QMO · · Score: 1

    If class more closely mimicked "real world scenarios":
    Exams would be open note, open classmate, open textbook, open internet, etc.
    A student that (without permission/notice) skipped five class sessions or came to class drunk would be expelled, possibly with no transcript.
    A student could do everything right and still fail an exam because of the performance of a classmate.
    Examples done in class would never directly apply to exams.
    Lectures would consist of an office politician trying to "sell" a project that would increase his budget, and use inaccurate-but-impractical-to-falsify information to do it.
    50% - 90% of class time would be spent on stuff that had little to do with the class title, description or syllabus.
    Exams would often be on an entirely different subject with no warning to prepare.
    Grades would depend on vague criteria that can always be used to justify any grade the professor chose to give you.

    --
    Exam 4/C again. Maybe I'll do better this time.
  279. And yet Caltech seems to have few problems... by Chris+Tucker · · Score: 1

    ...with cheating.

    Surely it couldn't have anything to do with something SO old fashioned and outdated as the Honor Code.

    "no member of the Caltech community shall take unfair advantage of any other member of the community."

    Caltech Honor Code Handbook(pdf)

    --
    Guaranteed! This comment 100% Anthrax free!
  280. Ban it if you care about the results by ericlj · · Score: 1

    In the local Juco culinary program I've taken some classes in, they allow students to use (simple) calculators and paper dictionaries, but no electronics besides the calculators. This came up precisely because of the situation the original poster describes: one student said she wanted to use an electronic dictionary, but they discovered that she had either saved (or bought a package containing) some data that students were not allowed to have during the exam.

    Before people go into the issue of memory versus comprehension, understand that in a professional kitchen (or anywhere you have to get things ready in a timely manner), one does not have time to look everything up and memorizing recipes or measurement conversion or other data is in fact a measure of progress in a subject.

    That said, since most schools only really care about buzzword-compliance and revenue, the OP should probably just allow the students to tell him they completed the course requirements and save them the time of proving it.

  281. Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    WiFi jammer solves the problem.

  282. Talk to your department head first. by sonoronos · · Score: 1

    I would place his whole discussion under the topic of Academic Dishonesty in general, regardless of the means by which this dishonesty occurs. I see very little difference between using notes written on the palm of your hand vice a wifi connection and some electronic device except by virtue of complication. The conclusion is that regardless of how elaborately one performs Academic Dishonesty, it doesn't lose its unacceptability - and consequently its prosecution under any accredited university's Academic Dishonesty policy. The fact that you have to ask this question means to me that your department either does not have, or has not communicated to you its Academic Dishonesty policy. For example, MIT's policy is fairly straightforward and designed to build relationships between the head of the department (i.e. your boss) and giving students the feeling that they are not being downtrodden (if they don't agree with you, they can talk to your boss.) Before you attempt to ask Slashdot, I would use this as an opportunity to have a meaningful discussion with your department head. One, to let him/her know that you exist and care about larger issues than simply "doing your job" and two, to make sure you don't end up with the short end of the stick when some student reads your school's Academic Dishonesty policy before you do, and you find out that a very wrong time that you and your department head do not agree on this subject.

  283. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Then how come movie theaters and other venues use cell phone jammers?

  284. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by fluffy99 · · Score: 1

    Also the FCC is clearly very interested in cell phone jamming, while this article does not say anything about fines to the business owners, only the jamming sellers

    I suspect the FCC simply sees a chance to collect revenue here by going after the sellers. It's not worth their time to go after the end users.

    href="http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/04/texas-beauty-schools-cell-phone-jammer-leads-to-25k-fine.ars">http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/04/texas-beauty-schools-cell-phone-jammer-leads-to-25k-fine.ars

    It's not clear to me how the FCC has any jurisdiction against a UK company. Also the title is misleading. The FCC proposed a $25k fine. None has actually been levied. To date the FCC has not successfully fined anyone.

  285. Ties to another post from yesterday. by The+Living+Fractal · · Score: 1

    One way to avoid the whole mess is to make the tests "open book" and make the "book" any source of information they can find.

    Granted, if you do this some students with more savvy on the Net will have an advantage because they'll be able to find the information they need faster... but then those are the ones that (provided they get the right information) are going to excel in the real world when they're doing real work anyway, right?

    --
    I do not respond to cowards. Especially anonymous ones.
  286. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by smackmywhammy · · Score: 1

    You can make WiFi unusable, however. Or you could alter the classroom so RF cannot enter through the walls or ceiling. And turn off the wireless AP in the room during exam time.

    I suppose convincing the university to alter the classroom in this manner could be difficult, but they could also see the value in having some exam rooms that are essentially faraday cages

    Making WiFi is not impossible or even terribly difficult. Use a netstumbler box to send continuous deauthenticate and disassociate messages. Cellular is a different story.

  287. Students: beware electronic textbooks by AlejoHausner · · Score: 1

    I tend to make exams open-book, but was dismayed when one of my students had bought only the electronic version of the textbook! I had to lend him my copy. No biggie for me, but students should be wary of electronic textbooks, lest the prof bans electronic devices during exams!

    Alejo

  288. The falicy of jamming devices by SierraQ · · Score: 1

    Jamming devices were my first thought too. How many times have I been in a movie theater or church or a symphony or a library wishing they had a localized cel-signal jamming device to force people into some semblance of politeness by making them take it outside? However... this would be like requiring people to gag themselves to keep them from talking when they shouldn't. Some things such as politeness, and in this case honesty and integrity, cannot be enforced but rather have to be learned and grown within a person.

    Furthermore as soon as a jamming device is put into play someone will invent a way to break through it just like RADAR speed traps led to RADAR detectors which led to LADARS and so forth.

    In short, you cannot win trying to limit or oppose technology but only achieve some sort of balance which you must struggle constantly to maintain. So instead of working against the problem, work with it or around it.

    1) Eliminate the need for calculators (e.g. I've taken many tests where a fat sin/cos/tan table was handed to me)
    2) Allow the English-challenged a good old-fashioned paper dictionary (they will not have trouble figuring out how to use that) and maybe allot a little more time to them
    3) This may sound altruistic but try to inspire integrity honesty in your class without resorting to threats of punishment. Many will respond better to positive reinforcement than negative.
    4) Structure the course so that tests are a small percentage of the grade, this will help reduce the unfair advantage of the cheaters.

    1. Re:The falicy of jamming devices by SierraQ · · Score: 1

      Sorry, that should read "fallacy." Funny how I was just reading the How Good Software Makes Us Stupid We rely too much on spell check!

  289. make them buy the calculator by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm currently a college student, and I don't think that making them buy a graphing calculator is unreasonable. It's my impression that most students should already have a graphing calculator from high school, and if they don't, odds are they'll need it later in college. Students don't expect to attend college without having to spend a significant amount of money on materials. Most classes require at least $75-200 worth of supplies anyway (in the form of textbooks). Showing up to a physics class without a calculator is like signing up for a dance class without dance shoes, or a literature class without the proper reading material.

    If individual students are concerned about money let them bring a four function calculator rather than buying a graphing calculator. They'll be placing themselves at a disadvantage, but they do so through their own choice.

  290. no electronics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Back in the day, we were allowed 1 page of notes, no calculator, and I had a pocket PRINTED dictionary for English translations. Tell those kids to suck it up and have a no electronics policy. Physics involves math...if they can't do the simple math that physics uses (e.g. no ring/group theory, no proving why a forumal works), maybe they need to pick a different topic to study. Grades should be earned, not handed out on a silver platter.

  291. I can't believe that the solution isn't obvious... by rgviza · · Score: 1

    IMHO if they can't be bothered to learn the language before spending the money to come to a US university, maybe they don't deserve to be there in the first place.

    As an aside, you can still buy dictionaries on paper you know...

    They'll learn the language, if for nothing else, because it's a PITA to find stuff in a real book. Electronic dictionaries breed laziness. I suggest making them buy paper dictionaries. Foreign students in US universities got along fine before there were laptops and ipods. I know because I was there.

    There's way too much opportunity to cheat afforded by letting them bring computers into exams and you can't exactly let just foreign students bring them.

    --
    Don't kid yourself. It's the size of the regexp AND how you use it that counts.
  292. exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In this case, can i suggest a paperback dictionary be allowed ? those things still do exist .... and as a teacher, knowing your ESL students can mean that you can be at least somewhat lenient on them when it comes to spelling / word choice / grammar so if the paperback dosnt have the exact word they are after, they can at least convey meaning to you so they can show understanding/comprehension.

    personally i believe that electronic devices should not be allowed, the exception is when they are needed by all and are used as part of the course but have no communication ability, so calculators (graphic included). Even if you had to supply every student in the exam room with one for the exam, the cost really isn't that much in the big scheme of things.

    Exams have worked for many generations, and yes we now have more technology to help with education and research, but when it comes to testing ability of the individual you want to test their ability around the subject matter, not their ability to google... just sayin ;)

  293. jamming wifi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We used to use 2.4 Ghz cordless phones to jam wifi but they don't block channel 11 very well its closer to channel 1.

  294. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

    If the jamming is announced, so that (for instance) no emergency call to a doctor is blocked, and the jamming signal is limited so as to not interfere with operation outside the test environment, you're probably safe. The FCC's interference law was written with a purpose, to disallow interference with the reception of lawful transmissions. Since using a radio device to cheat is probably in violation of the school's contract with its students, such use violates contract law and thus is not protected by the FCC.

    --
    Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  295. how about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    designing a test that actually measures what they've learned and not what they can find in 15 seconds using google? If the answers to your tests can be found that easily maybe you should change the type of test, make it more about solving a problem in a situation, open questions, etc. Those tests truly allow you to know what your students are actually learning.

  296. Lead Walls by DreamArcher · · Score: 1

    ...or maybe one of those old fashion pocket paper dictionaries for $10.

  297. I'll keep it simple... by TemporalBeing · · Score: 1

    ...and simply put it thus: They're in your class. While the exam may be open-note, that also means no conversation - digital or otherwise - with others. Thereby, all cellphones, PDAs, iPods (yes, iPods are networked devices), laptops, etc. are off-limits during the exam.

    The students that need language assistance dictionaries (e.g. ChineseEnglish, KoreanEnglish, SpanishEnglish) should not be allowed to use these devices either. To resolve their issue, I'd advise the school setup a program whereby the school issues digital dictionaries to these students; these "approved" devices are then what the students are allowed to use for the exams and any other similar situation - of which there are many, across nearly all subjects (the exception being the foreign language classes). This school policy allows the student to clearly understand the policy for all classes, and enables the teacher to clearly enforce it.

    In all honesty, I wouldn't expect a school in Germany, Brazil, or China to bend to my needs just because I primarily speak English. I would expect to be allowed a language dictionary of some sort, but not something that would provide an unfair advantage over other students that do understand the language. The whole point of the dictionary is to help level the playing field (though it won't be able to 100% do that), not allow me to use whatever device I want in order to have my dictionary of choice. I could carry a book or use whatever the school issues to help me.

    --
    Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
  298. Language Devices by phorm · · Score: 1

    Or you could just restrict it to devices that are approved. A list of approved devices, and an allowance for "other devices intended for the purpose of translation, as pre-approved by the professor/institution"

    A dictionary device doesn't seem unreasonable (unless it's an English exam or something of the like that tests vocabulary). An iPod or other like device, not quite so reasonable. This seems much like the "no pets allowed, trained service animals OK" type rules. Having somebody's yappy dog in a food court is a lot different from a trained animal *needed* by a person with a special disability.

  299. Solution.... by tesla_reincarnated · · Score: 1

    Get a RF jammer (I've seen them for ~$30), then the students wouldn't be able to wireless-ly interact or use google while in an exam. Electronic dictionaries and the like don't require a network connection so they would still be usable.

  300. "Don't ask here" plus Some Answers by supercrisp · · Score: 1

    There's an office at your university for this. At my university, you'd consult disability services and the international students office. Otherwise, I'd say do what I do: walk around the room continuously, and ask students not to use electronic devices. If you need a dictionary, they're still available in paper. AND, normally the requirement is that such students be sufficiently proficient that dictionaries not be necessary in these situations. You can also answer language questions students might have. If they don't have enough English to understand explanation in English, they aren't second language students but still first language students and should be in remediation in your English/Comp department, not in major courses. Anyway, basically, sometimes the old answers are the right answers for the new problems.

  301. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by ModernGeek · · Score: 1

    A "contract" between a University and a student is not law. The law is all about interpretation, and it is going to take a precedent to be set before one can judge. Right now, it's all up in the air.

    --
    Sig: I stole this sig.
  302. just dont worry about it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    hey that reminds me a physics class i had as a kid that basically everybody was failling because the exams where rocket science hat tricks , i passed it , by storing all the required information on a no-fuzz 4 function calculator i had gutted rewired and reprogrammed , that was my birth in what is now paying mortgage , granted i was probably the only kid in my school with assembly language capabilities

  303. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by sexconker · · Score: 1

    Simply make the inside of the cage reflect the signal back. Too much noise!

  304. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by Mike+Kristopeit · · Score: 1

    so use infrared... or haven't you ever used the HP line of graphing calculators that come with built in IR networking?

  305. Re:Also by BatGnat · · Score: 1

    No.

    The North American continent has Canada stuck in the middle of the USA, and they are technically (North) Americans. Just like Asians come from Asia, or Europeans come from Europe etc...

    I sincerely apoligise to all Canadians for reminding them that this is technically correct.

    Your just an American hater, wanting to be a douche.

    No, you're just an American who cant understand geography.

  306. People like you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    People like you stifle the evolution of civilization. You allow open notes, but you do not want anyone to communicate. What is the difference between a student knowing where in their notes to find an answer, and a student knowing who to ask for the answer? You encourage hermits who are afraid to socialize with their peers except on a level of partying and counter-productive behavior.

  307. Why block when detection is sufficient by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Rather than trying to block the network access, would it be sufficent to detect it?

    I could imagine a wifi scanner that would detect any network access beyond an ICMP message in the immediate area. If the wireless devices are associated with the students (through pre-registration; to use the device it must be registered) and the scanner detects it accessing the internet during the exam they are suspected of cheating unless the sniffer shows the transaction to be benign.

    The same might be done for 3G networks (see another Slashdot article from today: http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/WIU5l_UvC4g/story01.htm)

  308. Trust but verify? by philmck · · Score: 1

    No-one seems to have mentioned what seems to me an obvious solution: Make it very clear that communication with anyone else during an exam will result in disqualification, then verify this often enough that the risk of discovery is real, for example using RF sniffers or cameras. Specifically prohibiting certain devices seems to be missing the point.

    I'm not a teacher, so I guess this "obvious" solution must have been found impractical for some reason - privacy concerns or too much manpower required?

    --
    Phil McKerracher
  309. how to prepare for a more connected future? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As the gap between desire for knowledge and access to knowledge continues to shrink,

    1. going to the Local library
    2. Internet access on desktop at home/office/etc
    3. internet access in palm
    4. ??

    we have to prepare ourselves for the coming reality of near-instant information lookup ("at your fingertips" will seem so passé). This will further shift the challenges of 'the real world' and universities will in turn have to shift to prepare for this. While not appropriate for all disciplines and all courses, 'open-net' exams will be a reality. For those tests that want to explore the students' ability to solve problems with some of the same resources they'll have in the work field, this may be the only way to accomplish this.

    One major conflict I see here is that all of the sudden you have a bunch of people assigned to the same task at the same time that are already socially networked, and thus can cooperate/copy/etc in a way that may not reflect the ecosystem of project work and problem solving outside the classroom. So try to disallow communication? or change the test somehow to allow communication (eg: work in teams) or make cooperation irrelevant (eg: unique tasks for each student)?

    What does slashdot think about open-net tests and the future of hyper-connectivity?

  310. An easy (and cheap) solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Im a teacher too, and I have the same problem. And the solution its too easy: just turn off the WiFi of your classroom during the exams. I just have to talk with the net administrator (nice guy) and he turn off the wireless during my exams.

  311. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by fluffy99 · · Score: 1

    A "contract" between a University and a student is not law. The law is all about interpretation, and it is going to take a precedent to be set before one can judge.

    Agreed. I think the first business that gets one of these super-sized fines that FCC is proposing will take it to court.

    Right now, it's all up in the air.

    Was that pun intentional?

  312. it is a faculty wide problem by d_m_g · · Score: 0

    hence your faculty should address it. Ours has bought calculators to be used during exams. You can always force students to bring a paper dictionary. If they don't like, they can drop the course.

    --dmg

  313. Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No unapproved electronics, this is common everywhere. If your cell phone goes off during the test, you turn it off in your pocket if possible, and if you must look at it, you blatantly take it out of your pocket, turn it off as quickly as possible, and put it back. Other than that, there is no looking at cell phones, period. No iPods, period. If you need to use an electronic dictionary, you can bring it by the professor before the test so the professor can review it, although book dictionaries are instantly allowed (this gives people an incentive to just go out and buy a book dictionary instead of dealing with the hassle). The professor is the final word on whether a device can be used during a test, and I suggest being fairly heavy handed in the case of electronic dictionaries (read: I think the Korean chick wanted to use it for more than just a dictionary).

    There are also wifi and cell phone jammers that should be legal in your area. You don't have to leave them on all the time, but it would be a rude awakening for those attempting to cheat using those technologies on test day.

  314. Old tech options by bunnyo · · Score: 1

    New tech can be a great learning aide - but if the student needs a dictionary or translator - simply get them to supply or use a paperback one... and stick to the new electronics allowed... or you could get a non-wifi/internet based electronic one which you pre-approve....

  315. 89875517873681764 what, lad? Kippers? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    Einstein didn't write E=m * 89875517873681764, did he?

    Probably not. Someone as smart as him wouldn't miss off the units.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  316. Stupid smug pillock by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    designing a test that actually measures what they've learned and not what they can find in 15 seconds using google? If the answers to your tests can be found that easily maybe you should change the type of test

    It's not as simple as that. There are people who will take a test for you in person, so I'm sure there are ones who'd be more than willing to do it from home via the magic of teh intarwebz.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  317. Individualized tests. by ResidentSourcerer · · Score: 1

    Create a unique test for each student. You will have to spend some time doing some programming, but in essence it works like this:

    1. For each concept you want to test, you generate N parameterized questions. By the latter, I mean that the individual instances of a given question may have all the words the same, but will have different numbers.

    2. When you generate a test, you also generate an answer key for it.

    3. If N=5 then for multiple choice questions, the wrong answers for instance 1 are the right answers for instances 2-5.

    4. The questions are generated in random order for each test, so not everyone is working on the falling cannonball problem at the same time.

    5. When you print them, print them on a variety of colours of paper. Nothing like having the person next to you getting a pink exam, with obvious different problems on the first page to thwart their nefarious ambitions.

    Off the top of my head, I'd do it in perl or python. A question would be a file that looks like this:

        On a planet far away, a physics student drops a rock off a [CLIFF] meter high cliff. The rock takes [FALL] second to hit the ground. What is the acceleration of gravity on that planet

    {integer, 25..120}
    {float.1, 2..10}
      2 * cliff / fall^2

    If more than one template exists in a file, one is chosen at random.

    One advantage of this: If someone is sick, misses the exam, or is challenging the course, it's easy to generate a new exam for them to take.

    This still doesn't stop someone from querying the world for answers, but with each test unique, cheating inside the classroom is a lot harder, and just communicating the problem is slow enough that getting answers to all of the problems would be hard to do in the time available.

    As another option, could you bring in your own access points? Bring cheapy AP's If you bring 3 in the campus AP won't be able to automatically find a clear free channel. If you run a broadcast storm on your mini-network, the room's wifi should be, at best, erratic.

    --
    Third Career: Tree Farmer Second Career: Computer Geek First Career: Teacher, Outdoor Instructor, Photographer.
  318. Ubiquitous wireless acess vs. classroom policy by TJNoffy · · Score: 1

    As an IT director at a university, I've dealt with this issue firsthand. The key take-aways from all that's been said here (and some I'm adding) are:

    1. This is a class policy issue, not a technology issue. You must set the policy for your class.
    2. Wireless/broadband access is ubiquitous.
    3. There is no reasonable way to turn off wireless/broadband access in a classroom.
    4. Paper language dictionaries are inexpensive.
    5. Most universities have an honor code.
    6. Some students will cheat anyway, given the opportunity.
    7. Newer iPods do NOT fall under the non-wireless category. My iPod Touch browses the Web quite well, and has all of the major instant messenger apps on it.

    So, with that information in hand, my suggestion is that you stress the school's honor code (hang it in the room if it isn't already there), set your expectations (rules) for class and the exams (no open laptops, no cell phones, no wireless capable devices, etc.), either buy the el cheapo calculators for the exam (if they can complete the exam with them) or you or your SA approve/disapprove any electronic devices that students want to use before the exam (this will require some time to research the capabilities of the devices), and tell ESL students to buy a paper language dictionary if they feel they need one.

    I'll leave the discussions of training vs. teaching and the benefits of open-book exams to the other experts. ;^)

  319. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by spinkham · · Score: 1

    Nothing a bare magnetron from a microwave oven can't solve..

    Microwaves are on the same frequency as wifi, and 1kW will easily shut down wifi for a block or more...

    You might experience minor heating of the skin and develop cataracts over time, but everything has a cost, right?

    --
    Blessed are the pessimists, for they have made backups.
  320. even MMS can be a problem by BioSlayer · · Score: 1

    I admire the level of care, concern and passion you have for your students. That's something totally admirable, I studied in a university where the medium of instruction is English and my English has always been better than everybody in my class, so at times the teachers find it easier for her and for the class to explain to us in the native language of the students/teacher, I don't know that language since I was coming from another country all together in order to study, so I find it impressive that you cared for your students who're not native English speakers. Our teachers went anal every time we complained that we don't know the language they spoke!

    Hitting the Jackpot, sometimes not a networked device is what you've got to be afraid off, even blue tooth devices are spooky, some of the students I knew used to have these digital cameras or simple cell phone cameras, soon as they got the questions book they snap it and forward it to their gang in a vehicle waiting outside. Guess what's inside there, a laptop, and a rented teacher of the subject (hired from an institute or had been a tutor to these students) and a student who is a friend to these folks but isn't studying their subject so he has no exam for that day, so the photo is enlarged from the laptop, the mercenary teacher answered all the questions and using the same communication method, the answers are forwarded to everybody in that exam batch, and guess what, away from paying the mercenary, no service charges are levied, you just go to that vehicle and sign your name and phone number up, and they were so sly and undercover, there was no way I could've known about this except because I was a trusted friend to these 'exam answers dealers' :p...

    I was away from all of this because the folks in my batch were real students and we all were just taking care of our studies that right way but the folks from the computer department we shared topics with (my major is bioinformatics) were far from anything but unserious . So you may watch out for that one.

  321. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by Mike+Kristopeit · · Score: 1

    so then i'd suggest using the built in IR networking features in the HP graphing calculator line.

  322. What happened to me by jboye · · Score: 1

    I teach engineering at a large Midwest public university. Last fall I caught seven out of 51 students cheating on an exam by relaying information via their cell phones. (At least 4 of the 7 had iPhones.) All seven are no longer at the university. At the time I had no policy regarding cell phones, etc. use during exams. Our department has purchased 100 cheap non-programmable scientific calculators. So now I have a policy for my exams that all electronic devices (computers, cell phones, mp3 players, etc.) must be in a zipped up book bag or on the table in the front of the room. I loan them the department calculators to use during the exams. This seems to work - at least for the problem I had. The calculators didn't cost much (around $10 each in the quantity we bought, I think).

  323. Re:89875517873681764 what, lad? Kippers? by spongman · · Score: 1

    well, smartass, he did miss off the units, didn't he?

        E = m c^2

    see the units there? no? right, there aren't any.

    Sure, the dimensions are implied by those terms, but is E measured in Joules, Calories, eV, tons of TNT?

    You could say that that the scales don't matter, you just pick the value of c that balances the equation. But that's a circular argument, the way to find c is to rearrange the above equation. You need to look elsewhere in the paper for Einstein's units (CGS).

    actually, i omitted the units because 1) slashdot doesn't support superscript, and 2) there's already an 'm' in the equation and having two different 'm's in the same equation gets noisy.

  324. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by Mike+Kristopeit · · Score: 1
    it's a troll to point out that 2 way video transmission eliminates the need to "copy their answers into an ipod using a scroll wheel"??

    you're all fucking idiots.

  325. Raw nerve much? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    Sure, the dimensions are implied by those terms,

    I said units. And yes, I do know what the difference is.

    but is E measured in Joules, Calories, eV, tons of TNT?

    Mmm, that kind of depends on what units your magic number is in, doesn't it?

    The area of a triangle is 1/2(B x H), where B is the base and H is the perpendicular height. However once you substitute numbers in, you should also include a unit.

    Are you really suggesting that E = m * 89875517873681764 is true irrespective of whether 89875517873681764 is in m^2s^-2, furlongs per lunar month all squared or sizeOfYourDick**2 / howLongItWillBeBeforeYouGetAClue**2.

    i omitted the units because 1) slashdot doesn't support superscript

    Lame excuse. There are two common conventions in programming languages that 99% of people here would understand.

    there's already an 'm' in the equation and having two different 'm's in the same equation gets noisy.

    Awww, diddums. You precious, precious little snowflake.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    1. Re:Raw nerve much? by spongman · · Score: 1

      no, i'm just suggesting that your pedantic implication that someone isn't smart if they omit units applies to Einstein in this case.

  326. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Jamming cellular signals is a federal crime.

    What a jackass.

    There's nothing in the article that states he's in the US. You're the jackass, and a fat one too.

  327. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by spinkham · · Score: 1

    Have you used those recently? They're severely limited, and only work for a few inches. You'd be better off jut showing your neighbor the screen.

    Even if you boost them with a hardware hack, it's still line of sight, and the proctors would see your contortions right away.

    --
    Blessed are the pessimists, for they have made backups.
  328. Re:Well not sure if this is the right approach but by Mike+Kristopeit · · Score: 1
    back in high school i boosted mine to play a multiplayer asteroids game i made... you could add a couple battery powered IR repeaters disguised as pens throughout the room, and then, using ad hoc networking, you'd have 100% coverage of the room with no contortions required.

    my point isn't that people should be doing this... it's that attempting to stop it is a futile endeavor.

  329. Use a signal Jammer on exam days by peabrane · · Score: 1

    If your only concern is networking and not inbuilt memory then you can just use a signal jammer on exam days and let your students know that they will not have any networking capabilities on exam days. 3 issues i can think of with this approach- 1. People using translators that speak to a server in the cloud. (But if they really require a translation device that bad, they probably have one that does everything on the device itself) 2. No access to important phone calls. This is probably a bigger issue, as students may not be able to receive urgent phone calls. But then again, exams only last for an hour or two so that is not a huge amount of time to be without a phone. Furthermore, the probability of someone needing to tend to a life threatening accident is rather low. 3. Might end up disrupting reception on phones of people passing by the classroom in the corridor outside. This, again, isnt a big deal as anyone on AT&T can tell you, you can learn to live with losing signal from time to time.

  330. It is about tools... by niftymitch · · Score: 1
    It is about tools and the escalation of tools that give advantage or levels the playing field.

    I just stumbled on a $16 HP calculator that would have taken me well and beyond a four year degree. Yet I am not sure that it is legal in some tests because the algebra functions are so powerful.

    Perhaps only thing you can do is to establish rules on the first week and stick to em... Start with a quiz that requires a student to list all his/her electronic "tools" and establishes that cell phones and networked computers are not allowed. Issue the question sheet as a quiz, keep and score it for the record. If at final time they change their answer remark the quiz.... ;-)

    --
    Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't. Mark Twain.
  331. Standardise on a single model. by timbos · · Score: 1

    When I completed my science degree at university a few years ago, the calculator for exams was supplied by the university. The whole university standardised on one calculator for exams, published the model at the start of the course and kept a couple of hundred in storage for use only during exams. Oh, and ban any other type of electronic gizmo (our foreign-speaking students were allowed a paper dictionary only, and perhaps a few more minutes at the end to make up for the time they may have spent looking up words).

  332. network by drew30319 · · Score: 1

    If the current network availability is poor and the new network availability is managed by the college then I'm assuming that the issue comes down to preventing the students from access the college's wi-fi during the exam period. The college's network might be able to block access to wi-fi for those students enrolled in your class during that exam period.

    To bypass this roadblock your students might "borrow" the credentials of a friend not enrolled in your class to still gain access but this approach might still be fairly effective (and without expense).

    --
    JAGga.me ----> Producing video games addressing emotional health and wellness issues affecting teens.