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A Klingon Christmas Carol

Have you always wished that Christmas classics were written in Klingon? If so, then a theater in Chicago has just the thing for you, "A Christmas Carol" in thIngan Hol, the language of the Klingon race. Written by Christopher O. Kidder and Sasha Walloch, the play features English Supertitles, and narrative analysis from The Vulcan Institute of Cultural Anthropology. "The story of Ebeneezer Scrooge is eternal and universal. But that alone isn't what does it. Also, Star Trek has worked its way into the fabric of American pop culture so much, that even those people who aren't Trekkies (or, Trekkers) understand what's going on," Kidder says.

170 comments

  1. Ugh... by drumcat · · Score: 1, Troll

    You lost me at "in Klingon". Lame.

    1. Re:Ugh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      You lost me at "in Klingon". Lame.

      Eh, you probably don't have any honor anyway....

    2. Re:Ugh... by morari · · Score: 1

      Your mother has a flat forehead, pahtak!

      --
      "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." --Paul Atreides, Dune
    3. Re:Ugh... by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 1

      There are a number of /. readers who should kill you where you stand.

    4. Re:Ugh... by FauxPasIII · · Score: 1

      Yeah? And how'd you spend your weekend, King Dingaling ?

      --
      25% Funny, 25% Insightful, 25% Informative, 25% Troll
    5. Re:Ugh... by oztiks · · Score: 1

      This guy being one of them ...

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99XpGCNCCMM

  2. To be or not to be...? by NitzJaaron · · Score: 1

    taH pagh taHbe'. DaH mu'tlheghvam vIqelnIS. quv'a', yabDaq San vaQ cha, pu' je SIQDI'? pagh, Seng bIQ'a'Hey SuvmeH nuHmey SuqDI', 'ej, Suvmo', rInmoHDI'? Hegh. Qong --- Qong neH --- 'ej QongDI', tIq 'oy', wa'SanID Daw''e' je cho'nISbogh porghDaj rInmoHlaH net Har.

    1. Re:To be or not to be...? by adisakp · · Score: 1

      You can't truly appreciate Shakespeare until you've heard him in the original Klingon.

    2. Re:To be or not to be...? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would cordially like to invite you all to the World Horse Masturbation Championships, to be held at Decatur, Illinois, on January 14 - 17, 2011.

      Prizes will be given for speed, volume, distance, accuracy and artistic technique.

      Also: such prizes are given in several classes, from miniature pony through Shetland, quarterhorse, and thoroughbred, all the way to Clydesdale.

      Some of the prizes in the more popular classes are accompanied by a substantial cash stipend.

      This is a very popular competition, drawing competitors from all over the world, and the quality of the competition is very high.

      To give you some idea of what you have to shoot at (pun intended) First Prize in the Clydesdale Volume competition last year was an an astonishing 1.17 liters!

      Hope to see you there.

      Happy wanking!

    3. Re:To be or not to be...? by Tetsujin · · Score: 1

      I would cordially like to invite you all to the World Horse Masturbation Championships, to be held at Decatur, Illinois, on January 14 - 17, 2011.

      I thought about trying my hand at it (pun intended!) but, frankly, there's just no way I could compete with your mom...

      --
      Bow-ties are cool.
    4. Re:To be or not to be...? by interval1066 · · Score: 1

      OMG.. my eyes are now just empty sockets after viewing this abomination of pure geekery.

      --
      Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
  3. already over by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sadly from a quick search it looks like this ended on the 19th.

    1. Re:already over by patjhal · · Score: 1

      Yeah and the article does not even give details on where it had been at. It would have been nice to have a link like this http://www.cbtheatre.org/CHI-works/KCC2010-CHI/KCC-CHI-2010.htm in the summary.

    2. Re:already over by Relayman · · Score: 1

      Your link indicates that this is an annual production and not something new like the summary would want you to believe.

      --
      If I used a sig over again, would anyone notice?
    3. Re:already over by ragdyann422 · · Score: 1

      This is true. The Chicago production has managed to garner a lot of press and that's awesome but, as is often the case, people just don't do their homework before they go post crazy. This show would not exist without those who came before us (and still journey with us) in Minnesota. This is the 4th year up in the Twin Cities and the first year in Chicago. The Chicago production was entirely new and cast with Chicago actors. We performed simultaneously with the Twin Cities production for three weeks and then they closed but we performed one more additional week in Chicago. It was that final weekend when Mark Okrand came to see the show and the Wall Street Journal showed up that things blew up on the press front... sadly, it was 4 weeks too late for this year's show but helps ensure next year's show happens! :) ~Jen~

    4. Re:already over by patjhal · · Score: 1

      Just make sure the first presentation in 2012 will be close enough to the end of the world science fiction convention to allow people to add a day or two to their travel plans and go see it. Maybe 2012 should have a Shakespeare one to end just before worldcon. My vote, MacBeth. I would try out if I spoke Klingonese.

  4. Perhaps they understand what's going on... by chispito · · Score: 2

    Because Dickens' A Christmas Carol is the universal aspect.

    --
    The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
    1. Re:Perhaps they understand what's going on... by harl · · Score: 1

      Exactly.

      --
      I find being offended by me offensive.
  5. EPIC by drcosquared · · Score: 1

    I'm jealous that my physics professor went to see this.

    --
    It is no coincidence that in no known language does the phrase 'As pretty as an Airport' appear.
  6. The one that needs to be done by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When are we going to see Bohemian Rhapsody done in the original Klingon?

    1. Re:The one that needs to be done by Culture20 · · Score: 5, Funny

      When are we going to see Bohemian Rhapsody done in the original Klingon?

      Translated to English: "Mama, I killed a hyoo man, put a batleth in his head, gave a twist and now he's dead. Mama, now my life's begun! More honor to our house has no one done!"

    2. Re:The one that needs to be done by kill+-9+$$ · · Score: 3, Funny

      I'm just a Klingon from a dishonored family.
      He's just a Klingon from a dishonored family. Just stab him in the heart, so he can reach Stovokor.

      Sorrry, couldn't resist, you inspired me.

      --

      -- A computer without COBOL and Fortran is like a piece of chocolate cake without ketchup and mustard
    3. Re:The one that needs to be done by kahless62003 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Already done. Threw together an initial translation in 2001, concentrating on translation and syllable matching but not rhyming anything.

      Reckoned if any language had a translation for "Mama, I killed a man, Put a gun against his head, pulled my trigger. Now he's dead." Klingon would.

      It's published on the net, but I reckon it's rather rough. I may consider returning to it and cleaning it up.

      As slashdotting my own site ain't too brilliant an idea I'll not provide a direct link, but include some of it below.

      Ahem:
      teH'a' yInvam pagh
      tojbogh pa'Daq jIHtaH'a'
      mujon pumbogh puH
      ghu'vam vItvo' vIHaw'laHbe'
      mInDu'lIj poSmoH
      chalDaq yInuD 'ej yIlegh
      loDHom mIpHa' jIH, chovup vIneHbe'mo'
      jIpo' 'ej nom jIvIHlaH
      HoSchugh SuS pagh pujchugh SuS
      chay' HoS SuS? vISaHbe'! jIHvaD SuS HoS vISaHbe'law'
      -jIHvaD
      SoSoy. qen loD vIchotpu'
      nachDajDaq HIch (vI)vIHmoHpu'
      chu'wI' chu'chu'pu', DaH Heghpu'.
      SoSoy. qen taghpu' yInwIj
      'ach DaH yInwIj naQ vIpolHa'chu'pu'
      ...
      tlhoy paS, pawlI' HeghwIj
      jIHeghvIpmo', bIr pIpwIj
      DaHjaj 'oy'law'taH porghwIj
      ...
      jIHvaD veqlarghHom poltaH veqlargh 'e' vISov
      ...
      jIHaw'nIS neH - naDevvo' jIHaw'nISchu' neH
      pagh vISaH 'e' vItu'
      'e' leghlaH vay'
      pagh vISaH 'e' vItu'. jIHvaD, pagh vISaH 'e' vItu'

    4. Re:The one that needs to be done by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's cute that you think enough people would bother to follow the link.

      I bet it's literally in the singles of people.

    5. Re:The one that needs to be done by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sensors have picked up on a Romulan Warbird!
      IT IS CLOAKED! IT IS CLOAKED!
      Captain, now it's uncloaking!
      All power to weapons; fire fore disruptors now!
      Charging weapons! / FIRE WEAPONS!
      Charging weapons! / FIRE WEAPONS!
      FIRE PHOTON TORPEDOES! ...and there she blo-o-o-ows!

      *melodic explosions instead of "NO! NO! NO! NO! NO-NO-NO!"*

    6. Re:The one that needs to be done by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >>Just stab him in the heart, so he can reach Stovokor.

      That works so well. I have this image in my head of a mob of Klingons singing that in unison.

      This post should be modded funny, same as parent.

  7. Oblig by AndGodSed · · Score: 1

    jIH ta'laHbe' Har chaH tuH vaj Sum dressing chaH Dung rur !

    1. Re:Oblig by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      qayajlaHbe'. ...'ej nuq 'oH dressing'e' jay'?

      {I can't understand you... ...and wtf is "dressing"?}

  8. I call shenanigans! by serutan · · Score: 4, Funny

    It claims that a human female was somehow involved in this.

    1. Re:I call shenanigans! by perpenso · · Score: 1

      It claims that a human female was somehow involved in this.

      Paid or otherwise coerced could explain it.

    2. Re:I call shenanigans! by Dachannien · · Score: 1

      It claims that a human female was somehow involved in this.

      You're thinking of the Ferengi version.

    3. Re:I call shenanigans! by vegiVamp · · Score: 1

      Given Jadzia Dax' eternal grin, I don't think much coercion was needed.

      --
      What a depressingly stupid machine.
    4. Re:I call shenanigans! by ivucica · · Score: 1

      What what? A clothed female? A hoo-mon female? Ugh!

  9. Thanks for letting us know.... by bjackson1 · · Score: 1
    1. Re:Thanks for letting us know.... by fgodfrey · · Score: 1

      We will be back in both the Minneapolis/St. Paul and Chicago areas next year! (I've sound designed the show 3 years in the Twin Cities and light designed it two years [yes, it's only run 4 years, but I did both one year] :)

      --
      Go Badgers! -- #include "std/disclaimer.h"
  10. Remember the Klingon Proverb by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Revenge is a dish best served cold over a bed of dead theatergoers.

  11. Sigh by Haedrian · · Score: 1

    A warrior does not celebrate Christmas!

    1. Re:Sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope.
      They celebrate the Feast of the Long Night.
      ~Jen~
      Klingon Christmas Carol - Chicago cast member

    2. Re:Sigh by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 1

      A warrior does not celebrate Christmas!

      You are not a merry man!

      --
      Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
  12. Tiny Tim? by RevWaldo · · Score: 4, Interesting

    How do they explain Tim's (presumably) Klingon parents not shooting his lame, shorty, sickly butt out the nearest air lock as soon as his illness manifested itself?

    And for that matter, why doesn't Klingon Bob or Ebenezer's nephew simply challenge Ebenezer to bat'leth deul, cut his head off, and take over the company? Just sayin'....

    .

    1. Re:Tiny Tim? by NitzJaaron · · Score: 1

      Perhaps there's a subspecies of Klingon that is Hobbit-like. Short, but honorable. They even have a reality show, "Big Qo'noS, Little Klingons".

    2. Re:Tiny Tim? by TexVex · · Score: 1

      And for that matter, why doesn't Klingon Bob or Ebenezer's nephew simply challenge Ebenezer to bat'leth deul, cut his head off, and take over the company? Just sayin'....

      Because not all Klingons are in the warrior caste, much like how not all Asians live a Martial Arts lifestyle.

      --
      Fun with Anagarams! LADS HOST, SHALT DOS. HAS DOLTS. AD SLOTHS, HATS SOLD. ASS HO, LTD.
    3. Re:Tiny Tim? by Haedrian · · Score: 4, Funny

      They should have made Scrooge a Ferengi - and instead the three Klingon ghosts beat the crap out of him. Would be much more realistic.

    4. Re:Tiny Tim? by AdamThor · · Score: 3, Interesting

      My understanding is that Tiny Tim's plot point is not that he is sickly and may die, but rather that he has to prepare (be prepared) for his manhood ritual and without appropriate instruction may die.

      The translation involves some conceptual work, it's not just a word-for-word type of thing. The play was put up this year in Chicago and in Minneapolis. In previous years it has been in Minneapolis alone. The greater exposure in Chicago seems to have gotten it a lot more press.

      My wife is involved with the theater company, but I have not seen the play.

      --
      -- "Oh. This guy again."
    5. Re:Tiny Tim? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Quite right. Some Asians, for example, pilot mobile suits. Others have magical powers. *nods*

    6. Re:Tiny Tim? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How do they explain Tim's (presumably) Klingon parents not shooting his lame, shorty, sickly butt out the nearest air lock as soon as his illness manifested itself?

      They put up with the "southern Klingons" (that we saw in ToS) that barely even looked like Klingons, so maybe they're not as bad as we think...

    7. Re:Tiny Tim? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ouch.. your wife has more geek cred than you do?

    8. Re:Tiny Tim? by wsxyz · · Score: 1

      Actually, they just didn't have enough makeup money in the original series to try anything with movie prop prosthetics. And, well, there's no such thing as Klingons really, they're all just made up actors. Sorry about that.

    9. Re:Tiny Tim? by Jawnn · · Score: 2

      They should have made Scrooge a Ferengi - and instead the three Klingon ghosts beat the crap out of him. Would be much more realistic.

      You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

    10. Re:Tiny Tim? by qurgh · · Score: 1

      The answer to your question is in the play.

      vreD (the nephew) challenges him many times, but he is a coward and doesn't pick up a weapon. Klingons find it dishonorable to kill an unarmed weakling, so no one fights him. Most Klingons have no interest in SQuja's company. They are warriors not accountants.

    11. Re:Tiny Tim? by d3ac0n · · Score: 1

      You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

      Anybody want a batleth? - Fe'zihk

      (Oh great. Now I'm imagining "The Princess Bride" all in Klingon.)

      --
      Official Heretic from the "Church of Global Warming". Proven right thanks to whistle blowers. AGW = Flat Earth Theory
    12. Re:Tiny Tim? by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Yea and the Sicilian can be played by Grand Nagus Zek. Man he would sound really funny in that...

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    13. Re:Tiny Tim? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      much like how not all Asians live a Martial Arts lifestyle

      Citation needed.

    14. Re:Tiny Tim? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      BAT'LETH (pet peve)

    15. Re:Tiny Tim? by serutan · · Score: 1

      How do they explain Tim's (presumably) Klingon parents not shooting his lame, shorty, sickly butt out the nearest air lock as soon as his illness manifested itself?

      And for that matter, why doesn't Klingon Bob or Ebenezer's nephew simply challenge Ebenezer to bat'leth deul, cut his head off, and take over the company? Just sayin'....

      Probably the same way they rationalize getting their butts kicked trying to take over Deep Space Nine that one time. Epic fail, deeply disappointing.

    16. Re:Tiny Tim? by sconeu · · Score: 1

      You have six fingers on your right hand... I should kill you where you stand!!!

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    17. Re:Tiny Tim? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because not all Klingons are in the warrior caste, much like how not all Asians live a Martial Arts lifestyle.

      Bad analogy. Yes, they do.

    18. Re:Tiny Tim? by operagost · · Score: 1

      Some are pirates instead. HANNNNNNNNNNNNGH!

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    19. Re:Tiny Tim? by nomorecwrd · · Score: 1

      Bad analogy. Yes, they do

      Who? Klingons or Asians... I'm lost here. :-)

    20. Re:Tiny Tim? by nomorecwrd · · Score: 1

      Have you ever heard the term "suspension of disbelief".

      We geeks like to talk and discuss about these kind of things like they existed, but we are all really aware of what is real and what is fiction, thank you!.

      Still, you have to thank us, guys with true imagination and the ability to dream while awake, for almost every piece of tech you are enjoying today, form cell phones, to CAT scans.

      Now get out of here!! you are not getting your forged geek card back!!

  13. It was much better than Cats. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I love the part where Bob Cratchet fillets Ebenezer Scrooge with batliff for the glory of Kahless.

  14. Not a Kilingon story. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The whole Christmas Carol story is about the spiritual redemption of a man who spent his entire life in pursuit of wealth sacrificing his "soul" in the process and not helping his fellow man.

    A Klingon would consider the sickly, weak and poor to be not worthy and therefore should be killed. A Klingon would have killed Tiny Tim or Tiny Tim would have died a honorable death in battle - maybe as a suicide pilot or something.

    If anything, a Klingon Christmas Carol would have Bob Cratchit haunted and the ghosts would have convinced him to kill Tiny Tim and take over Scrooge's operation by kicking his ass.

    1. Re:Not a Kilingon story. by Korin43 · · Score: 3, Informative

      You might find this description interesting. They didn't just translate the words into Klingon, they also made the story more Klingon. From the link: "Most notably, Scrooge (here, SQuja’ — pronounced Sk-OOO-JA!) is suffering from a lack of courage and honor, rather than compassion and humanity. He’d rather hide out in his hole, grumpily counting his gold, than fight in battle."

    2. Re:Not a Kilingon story. by qurgh · · Score: 2

      That's why we Klingonified the story before translating it. It's just based on the Dickens story, but as it would have been told by Klingons. Spiritual redemption is replaced with regaining honour.

      Klingons don't base your worth on your physical abilities, but what you do with the abilities you have. You could be a half blind warrior with bad knees and still fight and die honourably.

    3. Re:Not a Kilingon story. by sesshomaru · · Score: 1


      If anything, a Klingon Christmas Carol would have Bob Cratchit haunted and the ghosts would have convinced him to kill Tiny Tim and take over Scrooge's operation by kicking his ass.

      That sounds more like the version they do on Ferenginar.

      Of course, in the Cardassian version, Tiny Tim is an operative for the Obsidian Order who liquidates Gul Scrooge...

      --
      "MIT betrayed all of its basic principles."
    4. Re:Not a Kilingon story. by serutan · · Score: 1

      Agreed. I bet the Ferengi version would be even more twisted and cuddly.

    5. Re:Not a Kilingon story. by scharkalvin · · Score: 1

      No, that is the plot of a Ferengi christmas.

  15. Chicago is new. by jhesse · · Score: 1

    I saw this last week... In Saint Paul, MN. Where it started running 5 years ago. (Chicago is a recent expansion.)

    Good show. I suggest going to see it next year.

    --

    --
    "I have also mastered pomposity, even if I do say so myself." -Kryten
    1. Re:Chicago is new. by ragdyann422 · · Score: 1

      Show started running in MN in 2007 as a one off holiday fundraiser for Commedia Beauregard. This is it's 4th year in MN and first year in Chicago. ~Jen~ Klingon Christmas Chicago cast member

  16. You haven't heard Dickens... by Revar · · Score: 1

    You haven't heard Dickens until you've heard it in the original tlhlngan Hol!

  17. Carols and trees are replaced with drinking, by wiredog · · Score: 1

    fighting and mating rituals.

    I so need to update my holiday traditions. Even the Airing of Grievances doesn't hold a candle to that.

    (Stolen from here.

  18. Klingon by mlwmohawk · · Score: 1

    Perhaps off topic, but.....

    All technical discussions in companies should be done in Klingon. Having worked in the field for over a quarter of a century, I have come to the conclusion that marketing, sales, and management should NEVER know what goes on in engineering. Everyone will be happier. Lets face it, non-technical people barely understand as it is, and when they do get the jist of an idea, they so badly misunderstand it, it becomes a marketing phase/buzzword that everyone else will eventually either have to support or explain to the lowest common denominator why its a bad idea.

    Lets just speak Klingon and kill the engineers that dishonour themselves and go into management to prevent translation. The economy will be better because we'll be able to make stuff again.

    1. Re:Klingon by Americano · · Score: 1

      Right, because imposing artificial barriers to communication, and making it even harder for the engineers to express themselves clearly, is something we should really encourage.

      You'll be able to "make stuff" again, but you won't be able to "sell stuff," which means you'll be out of a job pretty quick, unless you happen to work for one of a handful of companies that makes geek toys.

    2. Re:Klingon by Ykant · · Score: 1

      It has been said that a good thing is capable of selling itself.

      --
      Spelling, grammar, punctuation? We need something that checks logic.
    3. Re:Klingon by Americano · · Score: 2

      It's also been said that a stitch in time saves nine, and that curiosity killed the cat, but satisfaction brought it back. Neither of those are any more universally true than your aphorism.

      "If you build it they will come," worked great as a tagline for a Kevin Costner movie. As a product strategy, it's a recipe for shitty sales and a slow death from customer apathy.

    4. Re:Klingon by mlwmohawk · · Score: 1

      Right, because imposing artificial barriers to communication, and making it even harder for the engineers to express themselves clearly, is something we should really encourage.

      Obviously you've never been in the position of having to explain something very complicated and very technical to someone who will never ever understand it. There are some things that take years to learn and understand.

      That sounds elitist, and perhaps it may be, but many dedicated professionals spend their lives learning. The notion that anyone can easily understand an esoteric and complex detail implies that there is no such thing expertise or wisdom.

      You'll be able to "make stuff" again, but you won't be able to "sell stuff," which means you'll be out of a job pretty quick, unless you happen to work for one of a handful of companies that makes geek toys.

      Well, your assertion is not supported by history. "Revolutionary" products are not made by sales, marketing, or management. They are made by "geeks." I'm pretty sure that the facts are self evident, but should you need an example, lets look at the personal computer. In the 70s it was geeks like me building micro-computers.

    5. Re:Klingon by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 1

      It has been said that a good thing is capable of selling itself.

      And yet various technical industries are paved with good products that failed in the market. Huh.

    6. Re:Klingon by Americano · · Score: 1

      Obviously you've never been in the position of having to explain something very complicated and very technical to someone who will never ever understand it. There are some things that take years to learn and understand.

      Actually I have been in that position. And I behaved accordingly: When explaining something complicated to someone, you start small, and with broad strokes, give them enough to answer the immediate question, and let them dig deeper if they need it. When somebody asks you, "What's a wi-fi?" You don't need to provide them with a college course in radio waves, chip design, and computer science theory.

      You seem stuck on the notion that "explaining heart surgery to someone" requires that they have gone through 8 years of medical school & residencies & internships before you can even begin. It doesn't. Teaching someone to perform heart surgery isn't required for them to understand what it is, and what function it serves.

      It doesn't sound elitist - it sounds sadly typical of many engineers I work with, who have an inordinate amount of difficulty communicating with non-technical peers because they feel that they have to explain every minute detail of the physics behind a topic before anybody could possibly have an understanding for it. I believe it's mostly a combination of poor social skills with a desire to show off how knowledgeable they are that drives this, but maybe you feel differently.

      The notion that anyone can easily understand an esoteric and complex detail implies that there is no such thing expertise or wisdom.

      You are confusing "understanding" with "expertise". I can "understand" what heart surgery is without ever having the expertise to perform it myself. I can "understand" how an internal combustion engine works without being remotely qualified to take my Toyota apart and rebuild the engine. Understanding something does not require detailed knowledge of every fundamental component and underpinning science that goes into making the component. And this, once again, is very typical of many engineers I've worked with: they simply don't get that you don't have to have a PhD in electrical engineering to understand what a hard drive is, or a PhD in the area of radio communications to understand what a wireless network is. If we required a fundamental knowledge of everything we used day in and day out to use it properly, nobody would ever be able to leave the house, and we'd still be living in caves "discovering" fire on a daily basis. We generalize, and we analogize, and we do a terrific job of keeping things from spinning out of control in a very grayscale world - all without the deep understanding you're claiming is absolutely required for anybody to function.

      Well, your assertion is not supported by history. "Revolutionary" products are not made by sales, marketing, or management. They are made by "geeks." I'm pretty sure that the facts are self evident, but should you need an example, lets look at the personal computer. In the 70s it was geeks like me building micro-computers.

      Right, because I'm sure the PC would have caught on like wildfire as a device for the home without sales, marketing, and management. If it hadn't been for sales, marketing, or management, the microcomputers you're referring to would still be a garage industry made by geeks, for geeks. And if you wonder why you still haven't seen the year of the Linux Desktop, look no further than the distinct lack of "sales, marketing and management" in the desktop linux area.

    7. Re:Klingon by mlwmohawk · · Score: 2

      You seem stuck on the notion that "explaining heart surgery to someone" requires that they have gone through 8 years of medical school & residencies & internships before you can even begin. It doesn't. Teaching someone to perform heart surgery isn't required for them to understand what it is, and what function it serves.

      That's a very simplistic point of view and not what I was referring too and the nature of the discussion is inhibiting the actual discussion because an analogy that is easy to understand will not do justice to the subject.

      The best I can do for an analogy is starting a car in the winter. Under normal circumstances, it should start up. If however, there is a problem, then there is a whole host of possibilities. Is it spark or gas? Is it a computer issue? Is it cranking? Battery? Fuel filter? MAP sensor? Choke? one or more of these system? Remember, when its cold, these have to work more or less right, or it will never start.

      If you called me and said, "I can't start my car, can you help me?" It is very unlikely that, unless you know cars well enough, that no amount of explanation of what to listen or look for will do you any good. You don't have the knowledge or experience to understand. Different engines can sound differently with similar problems, but a knowledgeable ear will hear whether or not the spark plugs are igniting the gas sporadically. It is almost impossible to describe the subtle difference, but if you've diagnosed a few engines that you'll begin to pick up on the subtlety.

      I know this is a low-tech example, but it is one that most people are familiar with. I could not tell you on the phone how to start your car. Unless you know about cars yourself, you have no hope in diagnosing the problem. I could tell you to check or replace X,Y,or Z, but I wouldn't actually be explaining it to you. You would be a part swapping monkey, not actually knowing why you were testing X,Y,or Z with regard to the situation in front of you.

      In reality, a good mechanic can usually get the car started, sometimes with starter fluid if necessary, and tell you exactly why it won't start. It would be impossible to explain that whole process to you. I might say, you need new spark plugs and say that they are worn. I might say your ECM error was 300 on the engine, which means you need a new distributor cap.

      Computer programs and operating systems are 10s of thousands of time more complex than a car engine. When things are broken, I can explain what you need to do, but don't have any illusion that you will understand the explanation of "why" unless you have some background in the subject.

    8. Re:Klingon by Domint · · Score: 1

      It would seem you two are having completely different conversations at each other.

      You're saying that in order to properly diagnose & address a malfunction with a complicated piece of machinery takes skill that the average layman lacks. This is true. But the point GP is raising is that you don't need the same skill-set to understand the underlying purpose of a complicated piece of machinery when it is in working order. This is also true.

    9. Re:Klingon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why stop at technical discussions, when you can *code* in Klingon (Lingua::tlhInganHol::yIghun). Bonus points because you're also coding in Perl. That actually executes.

      Damien Conway rules.

      http://search.cpan.org/~mschwern/Lingua-tlhInganHol-yIghun-20090601/lib/Lingua/tlhInganHol/yIghun.pm

    10. Re:Klingon by mlwmohawk · · Score: 1

      It would seem you two are having completely different conversations at each other.

      You're saying that in order to properly diagnose & address a malfunction with a complicated piece of machinery takes skill that the average layman lacks. This is true. But the point GP is raising is that you don't need the same skill-set to understand the underlying purpose of a complicated piece of machinery when it is in working order. This is also true.

      Well, analogies are always inexact, but the point I was trying to make had to do with some things being more complex than can be easily explained to a layman.

      My example was diagnosing a malfunctioning system, because that is something that most people have been on either side of. That is merely an example of the point.

      I'm sure you can extrapolate this to something like computer architecture or design.

    11. Re:Klingon by Americano · · Score: 1

      This analogy is so fundamentally different from your initial point that you might as well be speaking in Klingon right now.

      Your initial point was: We should invent a new language for "technical people" to talk in so that they don't have to bother with trying to explain stuff to non-technical losers.

      I responded that that was a bad idea, and introducing new - artificial - barriers to communication does nothing to solve the fundamental problem, which is that many engineers are terrible at explaining things to non-technical peers, and assume that the other person's lack of a MS in physics and PhD in math means they're an illiterate moron who just can't "get" sophisticated technical topics.

      You've somehow managed to shift that from "explaining technical things to non-technical people," to "diagnosing and repairing intimate technical problems in a complex mechanical system," or perhaps "designing and building complex mechanical systems." And to that, my original point stands: You do not need advanced technical knowledge to understand what something very technical does, or the broad stroke outlines of how it works.

      To center your analogy a little more closely with your original commentary, and not to this new exception you've brought up, it would be like me calling you up and saying, "So a mechanic said I need new spark plugs. What are those?"

      That's a pretty simple explanation: "As the name implies, they deliver a spark to gasoline inside your engine, which ignites the gasoline, which in turn powers your engine."

      Did I gloss over a whole lot about how a spark plug works, what the proper timings are, how much air needs to be mixed with the fuel for optimal performance and a thousand other important things that mechanics and motor designers need to be aware of and understand? Yes. Is the answer accurate, and does it answer the question of "what's a spark plug?" Again, yes.

      The tl;dr point is this: If you are having problems explaining something technical to a non-technical person who is genuinely interested in understanding the answer and not simply seeking a way to support a predetermined conclusion, it is not the fault of the language being used to explain it, it is the fault of the person doing the explaining. There is very little that is SO IMMENSELY complex that an expert cannot explain the rough outline of it to a non-technical "layman" over the course of 20 minutes.

      The problem is, many experts try to cram their 20 years of domain experience into that 20 minutes, with the result being a confused audience and glazed-over eyes indicating that you've communicated absolutely nothing of value to them.

    12. Re:Klingon by mlwmohawk · · Score: 1

      The problem is, many experts try to cram their 20 years of domain experience into that 20 minutes, with the result being a confused audience and glazed-over eyes indicating that you've communicated absolutely nothing of value to them

      The problem comes from the, addressing the original point, when sales, marketing, and management try to get involved in engineering.

      To understand a subject on a basic level, yes can be done in about 20 minutes. That is an entirely different problem. If you have someone interested in learning a subject, that is different than someone who actively rejects that experience or expertise account for anything, i.e. sales, marketing, and management.

      Thus, you are presented with a problem. You outline an amount of work and a course of development that will solve the problem. You try to explain why solving this particular problem has a certain set of issues and forces a set of requirements.

      Sales, marketing, and management are incapable of understanding the issue, because, like you, they assume that *anything* can be communicated and understood in 20 minutes or less. You spend frustrating hours as they try to convince you that you have the engineering plan wrong and you spend that same frustrating number of hours explaining how what they want to do won't work the way they want it to work.

      Point by point, they don't get the issues. They don't understand the connections between systems. How a change in one layer affects components above and below.

      If you've spend any time doing complex systems, you automatically avoid certain practices because, although they should work, they don't, and then you have to explain all the reasons why.

      Then, depending on the reasonableness of the management team, one of three things happen. (1) They finally give up and let you design the damn product and you get to make it and it ships, or (2) they say the accept the design, but then constantly undercut your efforts and you never finish, or (3) they fire your ass and hire someone who will do it the way they want and they never finish.

      That's why greater than 90% of all software companies go out of business.

       

    13. Re:Klingon by Americano · · Score: 1

      You spend frustrating hours as they try to convince you that you have the engineering plan wrong and you spend that same frustrating number of hours explaining how what they want to do won't work the way they want it to work.

      If you are trying to explain why something won't work for hours and hours and hours, and it's not sinking in, the problem is more likely with your communications skills than it is with your audience's listening skills and understanding.

      They don't understand the connections between systems. How a change in one layer affects components above and below.

      Because they don't need to understand those things. Your job as the expert is to understand those interactions - if they understood it, they wouldn't need you, would they? Instead of trying to explain the systems to them, you should be explaining the *problems* that their objections are causing. Again, you are trying to impart 20 years of expertise in a 20 minute meeting, and that's why they are getting frustrated and tuning you out.

      That's why greater than 90% of all software companies go out of business.

      Ah, I see - so it's not that people writing software don't understand their users, don't understand their audience, and so get it wrong. It's because sales and marketing and management meddle with a perfect product and won't just shut up and behave like the engineers tell them to? You're simply demonstrating your inability to communicate with non-technical people here.

      I don't think there's anything else to be said, you've demonstrated the point amply, and it doesn't seem like any of what I've said is sinking in, I guess I should go learn Klingon before I try any further, so we can have a real *technical* discussion.

    14. Re:Klingon by mlwmohawk · · Score: 1

      If you are trying to explain why something won't work for hours and hours and hours, and it's not sinking in, the problem is more likely with your communications skills than it is with your audience's listening skills and understanding.

      It is obvious that you've never been in a situation where people don't want to be informed and merely want to demand and get their way regardless of facts.

      Ah, I see - so it's not that people writing software don't understand their users, don't understand their audience, and so get it wrong. It's because sales and marketing and management meddle with a perfect product and won't just shut up and behave like the engineers tell them to? You're simply demonstrating your inability to communicate with non-technical people here.

      I'm not talking about a feature set, per se' I'm talking about the realities of the environment. I've seen more companies go under because of bad sales and marketing than I have seen an inability to deliver product.

      If sales and marketing, and the management, of the company are not competent enough to understand, as an example, that most users have a personal firewall, and their "zero administration" product won't work because of the firewalls, then the product will be a failure. "Can't you just go through the firewall?" "Umm, a firewall is made to prevent this sort of access."

      So, what is left is engineering saying "You have to modify the product marketing plan and spec, because it can't work that way." and marketing saying "It has to work this way or we can't sell it." Then you have clever people in engineering trying to solve the problem of getting through the firewall without admin access so the product will work.

      It takes at least twice as long to develop and has a lot more support issues. Engineering will be spending its time working around an arbitrary requirement conceived in marketing that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the actual use case of the application.

      All things being equal, this is not the usual case. It is my description of the pathological death spiral for a software company. I had never seen anything like up until about 10 years ago. I'd read about it in Dilbert of course, but never seen it. In the last 10 years, it has become more and more common place.

  19. The Dickens you say! by blueZhift · · Score: 1

    Sort of obligatory. LOL, but I must say I would never have expected something like this in Chicago. While Star Trek is certainly better known by the mainstream these days, let's not get too crazy. Being a Star Trek fan still marks you as king of nerds! Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I may be biased.

    1. Re:The Dickens you say! by ragdyann422 · · Score: 1

      Chicago's got lots of awesome experimental theatre and there's plenty of geeks in this town. :) We managed to wrangle up an entirely local cast, after all! A good number of us aren't even big Trek fans but actors who wanted to do something totally different and fun. ~Jen~ Klingon Christmas Chicago cast

    2. Re:The Dickens you say! by Mongoose+Disciple · · Score: 1

      While Star Trek is certainly better known by the mainstream these days, let's not get too crazy. Being a Star Trek fan still marks you as king of nerds!

      It's true. I'm a huge nerd and this whole story still fills me with an inexplicable urge to bellow "NERDS!!!" in response like Ogre in Revenge of the Nerds.

  20. If it's a retelling based on Klingon culture... by mackil · · Score: 1

    ... then it might be really interesting. Just like the Blackadder's retelling of the classic absolutely stood it on it's head. If it is just Dicken's tale spoken in Klingon, forget about it.

    1. Re:If it's a retelling based on Klingon culture... by fgodfrey · · Score: 3, Informative

      This is, in fact, what the show is. A direct translation wouldn't work. Here's the official description of the show from our website:
      "Scrooge has no honor, nor any courage. Can three ghosts help him to become the true warrior he ought to be in time to save Tiny Tim from a horrible fate? Performed in the Original Klingon with English Supertitles, and narrative analysis from The Vulcan Institute of Cultural Anthropology.

      The Dickens classic tale of ghosts and redemption adapted to reflect the Warrior Code of Honor and then translated into tlhIngan Hol (That's the Klingon Language)."

      -- Forest (Sound Design/KCC Twin Cities for 3 of the years the show has run and light design the other year)

      --
      Go Badgers! -- #include "std/disclaimer.h"
  21. hmm by nomadic · · Score: 1

    I've always wondered what the point in learning Klingon is. I mean, for that effort you can learn a real world language.

    1. Re:hmm by RobotRunAmok · · Score: 1

      I've always wondered what the point in learning Klingon is

      When you die and get your wings (a la Clarence, keeping the whole Christmas motif going), you can trade in the geek points you get for learning Klingon to upgrade to a jet pack.

    2. Re:hmm by Caerdwyn · · Score: 1

      Because it's... fun?

      --
      Everybody gets what the majority deserves.
    3. Re:hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, learning is such a painful thing. You've got to use your brain and all. I mean, if it was fun than it would be OK, but going through such a mental effort for nothing... What's the point of learning something that you don't need? It's stupid. There're no monkeys in this country.

    4. Re:hmm by Duradin · · Score: 1

      What's the point in learning Latin? It's a real world language that isn't used.

    5. Re:hmm by nomadic · · Score: 1

      You can talk to the Pope.

    6. Re:hmm by nomorecwrd · · Score: 1

      Oooh, a Jetpack! I'm a bird! I'm a plane! I'm Duke Nukem!

  22. In the works... by interval1066 · · Score: 1

    A Vulcan remake of "Behind the Green Door"

    --
    Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
    1. Re:In the works... by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

      A Vulcan remake of "Behind the Green Door"

      Critics would pan it for "lacking emotion." Deanna does the Enterprise would be a runaway hit.

      Ah, the true Christmas spirit: thinking up remakes of 70's porn with Star Trek characters.

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    2. Re:In the works... by sconeu · · Score: 1

      "Deep Oomaks"

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
  23. Shakespeare by Krater76 · · Score: 0

    You can't appreciate Shakespeare until you've read him in the original Klingon.

    --
    "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?" - Patrick Henry
  24. Poorly Worded Summary by thehossman · · Score: 1

    I don't like star trek, i haven't seen most of hte movies, and even i kow that the proper way to have started that summary should have been:

    "Have you always wished that you could hear your favorite Christmas classics in the original Klingon?"

    --
    -- The Hoss Man
  25. Not 'Klingon Language'? by chebucto · · Score: 3, Funny

    in thIngan Hol, the language of the Klingon race

    Wait, does this mean that every time says "only complete nerds speak the klingon language.'", I can correct them by saying "actually, it's 'thlngan Hol'"? Fantastic!

    --
    The English word fart is one of the oldest words in the English vocabulary.
    1. Re:Not 'Klingon Language'? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I did not attend the Star Trek convention in Orlando. I did, however, eat at a Denny's near the hotel where a Star Trek convention was being held.

      I am the first to admit that I am a dork. An overweight, gap toothed, stupid grin, Whedon loving, dork. So when I say that the party of TOSers and TNGers (pronounced "tossers" and "tonguers") made me look like Mr. Well-Put-Together-Man, I want you to appreciate what I say.

      They debated ("bated") for an hour about warp drive technology. The Mr. Data of the group was absolutely convinced that warp drive technology exists today. The others didn't appear to buy it, but they agreed with him anyway.

      At one point it got very loud as they spoke to each other in what I assumed was the...ummm... language of the Klingon race. They were so loud and so animated, in fact, that the manager came by and had to shut them up. Twice.

      At one point two tables starting chanting in unison. When that was done, they applauded and gave a few cheers.

      Looks like they had an absolute wonderful time and I respect anyone that has the stones to do that... but durn, there were some strange ones there.

      Nanoo nanooo.

  26. Get a life! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Get a life!

  27. Greenlight theater in Chicago by GPLDAN · · Score: 1

    I was at the Greenlight theater last Saturday (2200 N. Block of Lincoln) to see their Frosty kids show with my kids. Last Saturday was the final performance of Klingon Christmas Carol. Greenlight gives kids of elementary age a chance to learn theater and participate. Anyone who calls the show lame and nerdy is a fucktard and probably insults it from their World of Warcraft system. It's great, and few theaters have the money and ability to do something so funny and experimental.

  28. You might want to double check your work... by Lead+Butthead · · Score: 1

    According to online klingon translator at

    https://sites.google.com/a/klingonword.org/klv/klingon-translator-and-dictionary

    you wrote --

    " be none [taHbe'] now [mu'tlheghvam] [vIqelnIS] [quv'a'] [yabDaq] [San] [vaQ] [cha] [pu'] also [SIQDI'] none trouble [bIQ'a'Hey] [SuvmeH] [nuHmey] [SuqDI'] and [Suvmo'] [rInmoHDI'] death sleep [---] sleep desire [---] and [QongDI'] heart sore [wa'SanID] [Daw''e'] also [cho'nISbogh] [porghDaj] [rInmoHlaH] [net] believe"

    Assuming the translator is to be trusted, first line should've been -

    "Daq taH joq ghobe' Daq taH"

    --
    ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
    1. Re:You might want to double check your work... by qurgh · · Score: 5, Informative

      "taH pagh taHbe' ..." is taken from the Klingon Hamlet. The translation is correct.

      The Klingon translator you used does not translate Klingon grammatically, it just appears to replace Klingon words with English words without respecting Klingon grammar. There are no computer based translation tools for Klingon.

      "Daq taH joq ghobe' Daq taH" means "It survives the site, it waves/flutters, no, it survives the site".

      While "taH pagh taHbe', DaH mu'tlheghvam vIqelnIS" means "To survive or to not survive, now I must consider that question."

      And thanks to Slashdot for covering this, I'm one of the co-translators. This years show was a lot of fun!

    2. Re:You might want to double check your work... by ragdyann422 · · Score: 2

      Correct me if I'm wrong, qurgh.... but I believe Christopher Plummer didn't like the way the literal translation sounded... so it was re adapted "To continue or not to continue". ~Jen~ Klingon Christmas Chicago cast member

    3. Re:You might want to double check your work... by qurgh · · Score: 2

      Yes.

      The original line was yIn pagh yInbe', but Plummer didn't like the way it sounded, so Okrand went back and tried again with taH pagh taHbe', which Plummer accepted.

    4. Re:You might want to double check your work... by ragdyann422 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      So let me get this straight. Our goofy little Klingon show is lame. We had massive coverage in the Chicago area in all of the major papers (Trib, Sun-Times, Daily Herald) and had tv spots on WGN twice. We got the front page of the Wall Street Journal which lead to coverage by the BBC World Service, CBC, London Times, & Daily Telegraph... and then last night we got mentioned in Conan O'Brien's monologue.... and the night before that we got mentioned in Jimmy Fallon's monologue.... Quite frankly, if this is your definition of lame, then I don't want to be anything but lame for the rest of my life.

    5. Re:You might want to double check your work... by harl · · Score: 0

      You do know that all the coverage you mentioned was only received because they are laughing at you right?

      --
      I find being offended by me offensive.
    6. Re:You might want to double check your work... by revlayle · · Score: 1

      Publicity is publicity... doesn't matter as much if it is bad or good

    7. Re:You might want to double check your work... by operagost · · Score: 2

      It's funny that our knee-jerk reaction is to ridicule interest in the Klingon language, but the fact remains that nerd-deity Tolkien also created his own languages for Middle Earth.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    8. Re:You might want to double check your work... by harl · · Score: 1

      That's a nice use of a stock quote but it doesn't address the point of either my post or the GP.

      Do you think that these major mainstream media entities are giving the show press because they think it's a great cultural opportunity that the average person should go see?

      --
      I find being offended by me offensive.
    9. Re:You might want to double check your work... by BigDXLT · · Score: 1

      Trekkies are probably used to that. Hell, that's probably the metric that defines their level of success.

    10. Re:You might want to double check your work... by ragdyann422 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Who cares? Folks can laugh as much as they want to. I was just an actor who wanted to do something fun and not really all that into Star Trek going into this. Their laughing at us doesn't change the fact that people came to see our show & had a blast. And it doesn't change how much fun we as a cast had doing it. Is it ridiculous? It could be considered as such. Revlayle is absolutely correct though - publicity is publicity, no matter glowing or groaning. The folks who want to dismiss it will always dismiss it. The others will come see it out of fandom or curiosity. The show itself does the rest. So again I say, if this is lame, I'll raise a glass & say Qapla'. It's not like we don't have a sense of humor about it ourselves.

    11. Re:You might want to double check your work... by cp.tar · · Score: 1

      Trekkies are probably used to that. Hell, that's probably the metric that defines their level of success.

      I should think Klingons would use Imperial measures. They are an empire, after all.

      --
      Ignore this signature. By order.
    12. Re:You might want to double check your work... by harl · · Score: 1

      Glad to see you do. I wasn't sure. Your post triggered "OMG this person thinks they're being taken seriously." warnings.

      --
      I find being offended by me offensive.
    13. Re:You might want to double check your work... by hierophanta · · Score: 1, Insightful

      you are missing the point of art.

      to note: the average person doesnt go see anything, only enthusiasts.

      also the average person is of average intelligence (IQ of 90-110), has an average salary (~32KUSD [US numbers only]), has an average looking girlfriend (no figures on this one, but IMNSHO is not to my standard),

      this list goes on and on and on. but the point is - average not only sucks but cant afford to see a stage show & cant appreciate a stage show.

      http://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/IQBasics.aspx http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States

      please leave now, and come back when you are no longer putting other people down just to make yourself feel good. thx

      btw - i am in no way affiliated with this production

    14. Re:You might want to double check your work... by ragdyann422 · · Score: 1

      I did call it "our goofy little Klingon show", after all. **grin** However, to a certain extent, the show itself is "played" seriously because if you play it slapstick then you actually lose the humor and you completely lose the moments of emotion. There's a fine line you really have to ride. You need to respect the fans and the source material while still maintaining a certain amount of levity about the fact that you're donning ridges on your forehead & spitting on your scene partner every other syllable. :)

    15. Re:You might want to double check your work... by Relayman · · Score: 1

      Many "journalists" don't report; they just rewrite stories that their competitors originate (or, perhaps, copied themselves). And then there's Slashdot, which picks up a copy far removed from the original (The Telegraph in England?) and gets all excited about it without trying to track it back to the original (whose author now gets absolutely no credit for his/her work). Ain't the Internet grand?

      --
      If I used a sig over again, would anyone notice?
    16. Re:You might want to double check your work... by echo_kmem · · Score: 2

      How does one say "Do not feed the Trolls" in thIngan Hol/Klingon?

    17. Re:You might want to double check your work... by IANAAC · · Score: 1

      Publicity is great and all, but how did the show actually do, financially? Or not even financially... what other opportunities were presented as a result (offers to show elsewhere, etc.?) Publicity for publicity's sake alone isn't worth anything.

    18. Re:You might want to double check your work... by ragdyann422 · · Score: 1

      Without permission from the artistic director, I can really only say that the show did well enough that it will be back next year absolutely in both the Twin Cities & Chicago and that the press we received opened up conversations and doors for Commedia Beauregard and the show itself that are a whole lot of awesome and exciting.

    19. Re:You might want to double check your work... by kitezh · · Score: 1

      "Daq taH joq ghobe' Daq taH" means "It survives the site, it waves/flutters, no, it survives the site".

      Sounds like the motto for a Slashdot badge of honour if a website survives a slashdotting.

    20. Re:You might want to double check your work... by grikdog · · Score: 1

      Some Shakespeare can't be translated into Klingon, considering cultural differences. For example, Shylock would be dead in Act I, and Desdemona would be wearing Iago's guts for garters by Act III. Othello would be proud of her, and incredibly turned on, but her head-butting might accidentally kill him.

      --
      ``Tension, apprehension & dissension have begun!'' - Duffy Wyg&, in Alfred Bester's _The Demolished Man_
    21. Re:You might want to double check your work... by Tetsujin · · Score: 1

      It's funny that our knee-jerk reaction is to ridicule interest in the Klingon language, but the fact remains that nerd-deity Tolkien also created his own languages for Middle Earth.

      I think I'd be just as prone to ridicule people who wear pointy ears and study Elvish as people who wear prosthetic foreheads and study Klingon... ...Well, actually, that's not entirely true. I think either pursuit could be worthy of derision but if people are enjoying it I don't think there's anything wrong with that...

      --
      Bow-ties are cool.
    22. Re:You might want to double check your work... by nomorecwrd · · Score: 1

      But, still, you have to be very careful who are you ridiculing (sp?)...

      It is so much different to laugh at a pointy ears skinny dude than a 2 meter (aprox. 7 feet) ridged headed guy... with an attitude.

    23. Re:You might want to double check your work... by harl · · Score: 1

      What are you talking about? Saying something that is true is not putting people down.

      You're the one who is directly insulting the majority of people by saying they suck and they can't appreciate a stage show. Then you go on to directly insult me.

      --
      I find being offended by me offensive.
    24. Re:You might want to double check your work... by hierophanta · · Score: 1
      my average skill across all disciplines completely and utterly sucks.

      and for the same reasons, the average person's skill in a given discipline completely and utterly sucks.

      you are right, i am insulting the majority of people (well actually i'm insulting everyone on the face of the planet [if you find this to be insulting]). but as far as i can see, these are the facts.

      you said:

      Do you think that these major mainstream media entities are giving the show press because they think it's a great cultural opportunity that the average person should go see?

      my answer is yes - and i think your implication that the opposite is true is unfounded. i should also say - that i think the basis of media coverage is to get people to be less average (especially if klingon / Star Trek is one of your interests)

    25. Re:You might want to double check your work... by harl · · Score: 1

      Please don't confuse what you think with what others think.

      You think it's a great cultural opportunity. The mainstream press thinks it's a joke piece.

      Being aware of this and pointing this out is not insulting.

      --
      I find being offended by me offensive.
  29. Re:GreenHOUSE theater in Chicago by ragdyann422 · · Score: 0

    Greenhouse Theatre Center...Last performance of Klingon Christmas was Sunday, Dec 19. Lil Buds (or something like that) is a separate theatre company that performed the Frosty show. Their glitter got all over our Klingon costumes. Klingons shouldn't be glittery. ~Jen~ Klingon Christmas - Chicago cast

  30. Um, by rickb928 · · Score: 1

    "Trans details don't match submission in MFAS for merchant"

    I'm not a 'Trekkie', but I'm a fan of the genre.

    Define 'understand'.

    --
    deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
  31. Do Vulcans Endure Klingon Christmans by Ukab+the+Great · · Score: 1

    By going out to Andorian restaurants and then spending the rest of the day plotzing in Holodecks?

  32. (facepalm) by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 1

    Have you always wished that Christmas classics were written in Klingon?

    No.

  33. How rude! by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 1

    An enraged and effeminate C-3PO: "This unacceptably overshadows Life Day. Won't someone think of the Wookies?"

  34. It makes no sense in Klingon... by mark-t · · Score: 1
    Klingons don't consider things like compassion, kindness, and generosity, to be innately virtuous as we do in our culture, so I don't think it makes a lot of sense to translate this work into Klingon except as a purely academic exercise.

    So on this issue of translating "A Christmas Carol" to a fictional language, I would think that Tolkien's Elvish might be a much more natural choice.

    1. Re:It makes no sense in Klingon... by ragdyann422 · · Score: 1

      Klingons don't consider things like compassion, kindness, and generosity, to be innately virtuous as we do in our culture, so I don't think it makes a lot of sense to translate this work into Klingon except as a purely academic exercise.

      This would be true if they had done a direct translation. But our playwrights & translators actually adapted the show first to reflect the Klingon warrior code of honor & courage and then translated it from there. Instead of charity and goodwill, Scrooge must find his courage and honor.

  35. As Evil Kirk would say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What's Klingon for 'get a life?'

    1. Re:As Evil Kirk would say... by Mindcontrolled · · Score: 1

      What's Klingon for 'get a life?'

      tlhap yIn!

      --
      Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
  36. Surely the wrong race... by Ponder+Stibions · · Score: 1

    I would certainly have thought that it should be a Fergni tragedy, showing how showing compassion and mercy loses you profit. Bah Humbug.

  37. I saw it and its great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I saw them perform this 2 weeks ago. It was really good. The story is actually about the Klingon "Long Night", a tale very similar to A Christmas Carol. Scu'ja (Scruge) cheated his way through his coming-of-age ritual and is derided because he has never seen battle. The ghosts show him how much of a pussy he's been and try to light his warrior spirit. Tim-hon (Tiny Tim) is disable (he's played by a tiny puppet) but has great honor and wishes to complete his coming of age, if only Scu'ja would let his father off of work to help prepare him. There's other fun elements I won't ruin. Those two bits I gave aren't really spoilers anyway,

    The story is well-written and fun. The acting is very good. I highly recommend it. I'm not a huge star trek guy. Some of the inside jokes went over my head and had to be explained later, but I enjoyed myself all of the way through. Oh, for those who don't speak Klingon, they have English subtitles projected over the stage.

  38. Well, no by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

    Star Trek has worked its way into the fabric of American pop culture so much, that even those people who aren't Trekkies (or, Trekkers) understand what's going on," Kidder says.
     
    Well, no. People who aren't Klingon 'speaking' Trek fans (a small subset of all Trek fans) can understand what's going on because you've provided English subtitles and based your play on a story extremely well known and woven much deeper into American culture than Star Trek. Given the preconditions (subtitles, extremely well knows story), pretty much anyone could follow along and understand what's going on almost regardless of language, staging, etc... etc...

    1. Re:Well, no by fgodfrey · · Score: 1

      So, having now seen the show upwards of 30 times (as the sound and sometimes light designer over 4 years), I think the show would be extremely hard to understand if you literally knew *none* of the Star Trek references. For instance, all the talk of "honor" and "warriors" only makes sense because most people probably know that about Klingons, whether or not they've seen Star Trek. Obviously, you can *follow* the plot by reading the subtitles but actually understanding why anything is happening requires more context.

      --
      Go Badgers! -- #include "std/disclaimer.h"
    2. Re:Well, no by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      I think the show would be extremely hard to understand if you literally knew *none* of the Star Trek references. For instance, all the talk of "honor" and "warriors" only makes sense because most people probably know that about Klingons, whether or not they've seen Star Trek. Obviously, you can *follow* the plot by reading the subtitles but actually understanding why anything is happening requires more context.

      So, essentially what you're saying is that nobody knows anything about the Christmas Carol, and even if they did they're too stupid too make the conceptual leap to map the obvious concepts onto the well known concepts. Or the play is so badly written so that it obscures why things are happening.

      Which is it?

    3. Re:Well, no by The+Davii · · Score: 1

      I've seen the show twice. The non-Trek-interested friends didn't get it, but the Trek-enabled did. We also had tickets for this year, but the show was cancelled due to the blizzard. The show is understandable (from a what-is-happening plot point of view) without knowing "Star Trek" or Klingon culture since there are supertitles and a small bit of narration in Federation Standard (English). However, it is not nearly as funny if you don't understand the Trek references.

    4. Re:Well, no by fgodfrey · · Score: 1

      You need the same background context of Christmas Carol that you need in Star Trek. However, I think it's fairly hard to grow up in the United States and not have seen the story of Christmas Carol at some point.

      A show doesn't have to be poorly written to require context. August Wilson's plays are phenomenal, but if you don't have any context in the history of racism in the US, they won't make anywhere near as much sense.

      --
      Go Badgers! -- #include "std/disclaimer.h"
    5. Re:Well, no by ragdyann422 · · Score: 1

      So, essentially what you're saying is that nobody knows anything about the Christmas Carol, and even if they did they're too stupid too make the conceptual leap to map the obvious concepts onto the well known concepts. Or the play is so badly written so that it obscures why things are happening.

      Which is it?

      Eep! Okay, that quote from Chris (Kidder), our Artistic Director, was taken just enough out of context that it really doesn't read well. This is one of the problems that arises when reporters pilfer from other news sources rather than getting their own material.

      Star Trek and A Christmas Carol are both pretty well entrenched in our pop culture. The play was adapted to Klingon culture but is very reverent of its source material in Mr. Dickens' original work and everyone involved worked hard to create a show that would please theatre-goers regardless of their knowledge of either Star Trek or A Christmas Carol. Honestly, if someone knows nothing of both, they're going to be in for a pretty weird night. If they know a wee bit of Star Trek but are quite familiar with Dickens' A Christmas Carol, they'll be more fine. If you know just Dickens, some of the jokes will fly right by but that didn't stop a number of my friends from enjoying the show. If you are extremely familiar with both Star Trek and Dickens, sit back and get ready for a night of silly puns, thoughtful homage, and some batleth fight mayhem.

    6. Re:Well, no by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      You can't seem to keep straight the difference between "can follow along"/"understanding what's going on" and "deeply understanding"/"getting every reference/in joke". The point of TFA and my original post was the former set, you keep trying to move the goalposts to the latter set.

  39. What about in Na'vi? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://forum.learnnavi.org/news-announcements/christmas-song-ninavi-on-youtube/

  40. Sick of Xmas music already! by PPH · · Score: 1

    Lets have less sleigh bells and more Slayer in the shopping malls.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  41. Re:GreenHOUSE theater in Chicago by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Klingons shouldn't be glittery.

    Nor should vampires, yet people pay to see Twilight.

  42. Opera? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Shouldn't this be an opera and not a play? I thought the primary dramatic Klingon art form was opera.

  43. Bleh by km_2_go · · Score: 1

    Why does geek "culture" insist on embracing these escapist, fictitious products of commercialism when there are true examples of warrior culture? Why not learn Maori, Kiowa, or Assata Shakur? Embrace reality, you lazy pathetic couch-potatoes! Television is the last refuge of the unimaginative.

    1. Re:Bleh by hey! · · Score: 1

      Because a thinking person prefers his idealized heroes fictional. As for his non-fictional heroes, he prefers them non-idealized.

      George Washington was a nasty piece of work, a shallow, underhanded, social climbing blockhead. The cool kids (upper class military snobs) condescended to him because he was obviously a pathetic, fawning provincial jackass. Finally he got so fed up with the aristocratic system he turned his back on it, and became a better man for it. He learned how to operate in the world of realities rather than class,. He curbed his impatience dealing with the men under him, treating them men rather than inferiors. He dealt with his superiors with a respectful blend of firmness and flexibility. Washington became a crucial figure in the Revolution, earning as an enemy the respect of the very military establishment which had despised him as part of it.

      As an aristocrat, Washington was contemptible; as a republican, he was giant among his peers. That's a hell of a better story than the version where he pops out the womb too honest to lie about the cherry tree.

      That doesn't mean I can't enjoy Beowulf, even though he's basically a comic book character. Making him more plausible wouldn't improve his story the way making Washington plausible improves that story.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  44. Just by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sad

  45. Comic Book Guy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is there a word for loneliness in Klingon? Ahh yes Garrrr Docccck!

  46. Spoiler alert by tehcyder · · Score: 1
    Klingons are a fictional creation, just like Santa Claus.

    Sorry.

    --
    To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    1. Re:Spoiler alert by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... and Jesus Christ!

      sorry, too far?

  47. Psh, Klingon? by Celestialwolf · · Score: 1

    I'd prefer Elvish as my made-up-and-utterly-useless-in-the-real-world-type-language for this show.

    1. Re:Psh, Klingon? by nomorecwrd · · Score: 1

      way better than Yoddish... or bork

  48. Ebenezer Scrooge and the Rules of Acquisition? by Tetsujin · · Score: 1

    They should have made Scrooge a Ferengi - and instead the three Klingon ghosts beat the crap out of him. Would be much more realistic.

    I think a Ferengi Scrooge would be a lot of fun... I mean, all the things Scrooge would normally do would be considered good things... And then Jacob Marley and the other three ghosts would show up to encourage him to do it better...

    Marley would show up and warn Scrooge that with his misdeeds he's forging a chain to burden him in the afterlife - and that it's important to accumulate enough wealth and manage it properly to be able to pay for the disposal of that chain after death. ("A man is only worth the sum of his possessions.") The two haggle over details of their partnership ("A contract is a contract is a contract - but only between Ferengi." "A Ferengi without profit is no Ferengi at all.") as Marley attempts to extract funds from Scrooge in exchange for a visit from the Ghosts of Business Consultation. ("Free Advice is Seldom Cheap" "Knowledge is Profit" "Never place friendship above profit.") Scrooge initially refuses to accept the reality of Marley's appearance, attributing it to hunger, and refuses to negotiate ("Never begin a negotiation on an empty stomach." "You can't make a deal if you're dead.") but Marley convinces him otherwise ("Greed is Eternal") and the two strike up a bargain wherein the Three Ghost Consultants will pay him a visit, and Marley will receive a percentage of the fee as well as a token payment in recognition of their old business partnership.

    The Ghost of Performance Review would show Scrooge his early years, in which he developed his obsession with profit, his enterprising spirit of fiscal conquest and how he came to neglect his fiance Belle. Scrooge pines over his lost love for a moment ("Money is money, but females are better.") but the ghost praises his decision ("Females and finances don't mix.") The ghost would contrast Scrooge's youthful vigor for business with his present state, a decadent old man sitting on a pile of money... no longer striving for the next great conquest, instead just playing it safe and relishing the mistreatment of Cratchet. ("The riskier the road, the greater the profit." "Expand or die.")

    The Ghost of Management Consulting would show Scrooge the clumsy entrepreneurial endeavours of his newphew Fred - and remind him that if one of these schemes someday achieves success, than it would be in Scrooge's best interest to be on Fred's good side when that happens - and to make himself a share-holder. ("Exploitation begins at home". "Treat people in your debt like family - exploit them.") Scrooge would come to recognize the potential to be gained from investing in Fred's ventures - and the potential of taking advantage of his relationships with family members as a means of networking and exploring new opportunities.

    The Ghost of Forward-Looking Analysis would show Scrooge the cost/benefit projections of different potential changes to Cratchet's salary, and the expected drop in productivity if Tiny Tim were to die... State-mandated bereavement leave, loss of focus as a result of depression, etc. ("Employees are the rungs on the ladder of success. Don't hesitate to step on them." "After you've exploited someone, it never hurts to thank them. That way, it's easier to exploit them next time.") He would also show Scrooge the end result of his excessively conservative approach to business - failure to take risks and effectively leverage his accumulated wealth would lead to his ultimate decline as more ambitious competitors gradually overtaking his business. Scrooge is therefore convinced of the importance of small token gestures of appreciation to his employees, as well as the importance of remaining truly competitive.

    In the end, Scrooge would be reminded that, even with his accumulated wealth there are always new business ventures to explore - that despite his advanced years, the remainder of his life still lies open like a blank accounting sheet - and that mistreating workers and exploiting family, while an enjoyable benefit of wealth, should not merely be something done for its own sake, but rather as a means to achieve greater financial success.

    --
    Bow-ties are cool.
    1. Re:Ebenezer Scrooge and the Rules of Acquisition? by Haedrian · · Score: 1

      I would totally watch that.

  49. Eternal and universal? Anglo-Saxon-centric? by smithfarm · · Score: 1

    Living in continental Europe, I find the statement that A Christmas Carol is "eternal and universal" amusing and sad at the same time. Let's face it, outside of Anglo-Saxon countries, A Christmas Carol is obscure at best. The same goes for Star Trek, although you might get a little more name recognition there, just because its later incarnations are occasionally on TV (dubbed into the local language) - but it gets lost, more or less, among all the other U.S. TV cruft that gets dubbed, broadcast at odd hours, and forgotten.

    Americans should travel more. It sounds like this particular OP has never been outside the continental 48.

    Come on, just do it. Even a trip to Canada will broaden your horizons. (Although it's possible that A Christmas Carol is beaten to death every year there, too.)

    --
    Om
    1. Re:Eternal and universal? Anglo-Saxon-centric? by nomorecwrd · · Score: 1

      Although it's possible that A Christmas Carol is beaten to death every year there, too

      Down here we're also beaten by Dicken's work, but that's just because we are constantly being bombarded by "American" Culture and "culture".


      Guess why "American" is between quotes? And why there are two kinds of culture? ;-)

      Anyway, I also never understood why we're also condemned to see "The Sound of Music" over and over again for Christmas. "Jesus of Nazareth" during Easter I can understand... but "The sound of music" for Xmas?????