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Chinese iPad Factory Staff Forced To Sign 'No Suicide' Pledge
An anonymous reader writes "Employees at Foxconn facilities in China, used to manufacture the iPhone and iPad, were forced to sign a pledge not to commit suicide after over a dozen staff killed themselves over the last 16 months. The revelation is the latest in a series of findings about the treatment of workers at Foxconn plants, where staff often work six 12-hour shifts a week, 98 hours of overtime in a month, and live in dormitories that look and feel like prison blocks."
Good luck enforcing it.
The only surefire protection against Microsoft infections is abstinence. - The Onion
Yeah, they better not kill themselves OR ELSE!
See this is why I don't understand everyone bitching about the American economy being broken. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't... but one thing is for sure. We are using paid employee's to try and compete with a country that essentially uses prisoners to power there economy. Whos confused about why we are losing??
Their families losing the right to sue Foxconn for shitloads of money.
I bet that will work as well as that pledge to not use sarcasm I signed.
The vast majority of people who commit suicide are not thinking rationally at the time. No pledges, no clauses that say family members will only sue for the minimum monetary compensation allowable, will make a difference to someone not in their right mind.
When someone says, "Any fool can see
Why every time Foxconn is mentioned it is automatically associated with Apple. Foxconn manufacturers for large number of clients including Logitech and Dell. Maybe I'm just being new again?
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
My current job has me doing this. 7 days of 12+ hours. And 45 OT hours each week, or 200 per month.
(jumps off roof)
My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
That's akin to saying, "hey, when you kill yourself, they know we are torturing you, so please stop killing yourself".
Who's signing the "only work so many hours" pledge?
It seems to me this provides extra motivation.
If you try to commit suicide, but fail, you're now in breach of contract and out of a job. Which means two things: If you're going to try at all, it's best to ensure it succeeds. And if you still fail you've now got an extra motivation for giving it another try.
Then there's that just signing this thing is probably harmful. Somebody could find it to be an additional motivation to commit suicide out of spite. After all, few things are more demeaning than somebody else asserting such control over your own life, and killing yourself anyway is about the biggest statement one could make about that.
You mean the Duke lacrosse team which was falsely accused and then hounded by a rogue prosecutor for political reasons, who was eventually disbarred for his misconduct?
Not saying this as an apple fanboy -- Apple is a high-profile company culturally, so it seems to me this kind of news comes out because they know it will be more inflammatory (trolling news). Do you know the working conditions of the other computer manufacturers or of the parts you bought to build your own? Are you sure they are significantly better? Do you buy them anyway? I know I have no idea.
As usual, especially for the Daily Hate Mail, the title is extremely misleading. It's been covered on slashdot before, but describing Foxconn as an iPad factory, or even an Apple factory is like calling Amazon a "Stephen King bookstore".
The article strongly infers that the plant *only* makes Apple stuff.
I also see no mention in the article about Apple's responses to this, with higher wages paid per employee (compared to the same employees in the same factory making Xboxes, PS3s, Nintendo Wiis, Android handsets, televisions, microwaves, etc etc), although they did talk about how little they were earning, and inspections and rules set out in a code of conduct (although, enforcing this is clearly difficult).
So, nothing really to see here - typical of Daily Mail reporting. I'm just amazed they didn't try to work in a "gay, single-parent-mother asylum seeker claiming benefits and lottery money, causing cancer" angle somehow.
Apparently this has been going on since May 25, 2010 (almost 1 year ago)...
http://www.chinapost.com.tw/taiwan/national/national-news/2010/05/26/258184/p1/Apple-maker.htm
http://www.chinasourcingnews.com/2010/05/31/552238-foxconns-working-conditions-in-china-under-scrutiny/
Prices are set to maximise profits based on what the market will bear; the extra cost of providing decent manufacturing conditions would have a negligible impact (if any) on end-user pricing.
What it would impact, however, is the income of the executives. We can't expect them to survive on some few hundred thousand a year pittance, can we? If the income isn't at least 50 times the national median, what would be the point in getting out of bed in the morning?
Anti-suicide nets were put up around the dormitory buildings on the advice of psychologists.
If you have to put up suicide nets and make people sign contracts promising not to kill themself then you're doing it wrong.
Way to avoid addressing the underlying problem.
Remember, this is China. The deck is stacked against the common man. The courts probably would enforce a contract that would be unenforceable in Western countries.
Death.
Many countries have higher rates of suicide among the general population.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate
The Wired article a published a month or two ago claims that the suicide rate at American colleges is higher than at Foxconn. According to Wikipedia, the suicide rate per 100,000 persons in the US is 11.1, and according to the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention, there are between 8 and 25 suicide attempts for every reported suicide death. That gives us an attempted suicide rate of around 88 or 89 per 100,000 people.
Looking at the information on Foxconn in the linked article, it would appear that the attempted suicide rate is somewhere around 12 per 100,000 for the first part of 2010. That would come out to maybe 36 per 100,000 for the whole year?
Maybe the headline should be: Making iPads in a Chinese Factory Is Truly Awful, But You're Much More Likely to Kill Yourself if You go to College in the US.
Unless I'm missing something here. Also, the article appears to be pretty old.
They could threaten to kill themselves if forced to sign it. If they were clever about it, they could use it as leverage to force better conditions in the work place. That is assuming it wouldn't be cheaper for Foxconn to just hire a whole new staff. Deadlines may not make that possible though for Foxconn.
I doubt that would work.
FC Manager: Sign this pact that you won't commit suicide.
Employee: No. If you try to make me, I'll commit suicide.
FC Manager: You're fired. Get out.
FC Spokesperson: We are deeply saddened to learn that former employee #1785598 took his own life yesterday. He had a history of erratic behavior, even threatening to commit suicide at one point to his manager. In that same conversation, the manager tried to make him promise he would not take his own life, but sadly, was unable to reach him. Toodles!
The only surefire protection against Microsoft infections is abstinence. - The Onion
Dear misinformed:
The Duke lacrosse team did not rape anybody. It was a false accusation and a prime example of how "presume guilt and punish immediately" is a bad idea. The falsely-accused students are now filing lawsuits for damages (like not being able to compete and reach professional level status). Plus a general level of HATE directed by professors to the students. (I always thought profs were secretly bastards at heart.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responses_to_the_2006_Duke_University_lacrosse_case#Duke_faculty_groups
My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
So, the families can only claim minimum damages if it's suicide?
Look for even the most aggregious workplace injuries and deaths to be found to be suicide or attempted suicide.
"She committed suicide by walking into the freezer and then padlocking herself in from the outside."
They are very annoyed that they have to admit their products are built elsewhere. If you take a look on any device it'll always say where it was made or assembled. That is required by law. Almost all devices, that's all it says about that. However Apple stuff? Right before that they have to note "Designed in California by Apple." Reason is they want to try and deflect from the "Made in China" part. They don't want their Mac to be just another thing made in China.
Well, that makes the stories particularly juicy to the press when they relate to Apple and China. Most companies aren't bothered. They stamp the country of assembly on the box and call it good. So calling them out on it does nothing. You call out MSI on their motherboards being made in China and they'll say "Ummm yes, yes they are. Says so right on the board."
Also there's the fact that it seems Apple puts additional secrecy pressure on Foxconn and that their employees have been subject to additional restrictions and scrutiny due to Apple leaks. You don't see that with other products Foxconn makes. They don't have to keep everything super secret since companies don't put on the big show and their products are usually known well in advance of launch.
So what brand do you buy that doesn't use Foxconn, or similar worker-enslaving Corporation? (Oh that's right. No such computer manufacturer exists. So you're a hypocrite who won't buy Apple but will happily buy HP or Dell or other computer that's just as bad.)
My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
Prices are set to maximise profits based on what the market will bear; the extra cost of providing decent manufacturing conditions would have a negligible impact (if any) on end-user pricing.
The impact depends on how much of a commodity it is. If manufacturers of competing products use the same low cost techniques for producing their goods, this will bring the prices down due to, well, competition.
FC Spokesperson and Manager: Ahhhhh!
(after being shot in heart by revolting employees)
My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
Why, execution of course!
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
It so bothers me to see the level of work conditions that these people endure. Sent from my Ipad
"Sign this Pledge not to commit suicide."
"No."
"I said, sign it! Or Else!"
"Or else what? You going to kill me for not signing a pledge that says I won't do it myself?"
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Employees: Ahhhh!
(after being shot in the neck by the Chinese army)
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
there's your enforcement. It's surprisingly hard to kill a human being when they don't have access to guns or tall buildings...
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
A corporation exists to maximize profit. So if you're going to anthropomorphize a company it's not evil, it just doesn't care about evil.
So the proper term would be sociopathic.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
I dunno... something doesn't seem right about this.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
12 people killed themselves over a period of 16 months? Out of how many people? Without knowing that, it's a meaningless number.
Do you have ESP?
Granted, it's inescapable to have all my devices' components China-free, but I can't help feeling smug about my Samsung phone (Korea), IBM laptop (USA), and HP calculator (USA).
Sorry, but Foxconn's other clients aren't as newsworthy. Logitech and Dell aren't big enough names to warrant a mention. It is not a conspiracy against your cult. And if it were, "But other companies do business with Foxconn tooooooo!" is not an excuse, m'kay? Apple does business with a company that works its slaves until they die, end of story.
When you fixate on Apple and not on the other companies doing business with Foxconn it means you don't really care at all about the workers. "End of Story".
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
In China, businesses are often obsessed with obtaining certifications. ISO9001, UL, CE, human rights guarantee, eco-certification, whatever it is, they want it, and they have been trained by foreign buyers that certifications are Important.
Of course, they aren't particularly concerned with fulfilling the conditions to get the certification - which is entirely the point of certification in the first place, but they don't see it that way. The end result is all that matters. This "pledge" is an entirely rational (by Chinese standards) reply to the avalanche of bad publicity (perpetrated by journalists with an axe to grind). Seriously, the "Apple suicides" were just one of those non-stories the press just runs with...remember it was shark attacks during 2004-05? Anyway, to all of you internet geniuses chortling to yourselves saying "how they gonna enforce it LOL"...that's not the point. They now have a piece of paper they can show..."see, we solved the problem!" They've been trained that this fixes things where foreigners are involved.
Two stories, a Chinese friend of mine recently had a large order for promotional items from the UK. However, there was some restriction that said the factory had to pledge itself to enforce some bit of leftist dogma. Ten cartons of Zhonghua cigarettes later, and the proper certificate was produced and the buyer was none the wiser. This next one is one of my favorite stories, heard it when I first came to China. Buddy of mine is buying sunglasses from some factory. He asks, do they have UV coating? Evidently there's some problem translating ultraviolet into Chinese so the factory owner doesn't understand. They go back and forth for a while without getting anywhere. Then suddenly, the guy's face lights up and he says, "Oh ya ya ya ya I know I know! We have sticker!" True story.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
No problem here. Suicide wipes away liabilities from employers, insurers, even the governments. Here, we just RIF them; though having employees kill themselves might be cheaper than firing them. We need to consult the Japanese on that one.
Where there is a rash of murders at Foxconn designed to look like suicides of people potentially leaking the next iSomething design!
"Quote me as saying I was mis-quoted." -Groucho Marx
"But Apple's user base is primarily vegetables."
Chaos maximizes locally around me.
"Sacom said the company initially responded to the spate of suicides by bringing in monks to exorcise evil spirits"
Obviously since it is the iPhone and iPad they probably are using the wrong kind of exorcists. Maybe we can share some of our Hell and Damnation Bible thumpers to strainghten out those pesky spirits. Or maybe they should have sent the monks to the executive offices instead of the factory?
I'm not amazed that this would come out of the dailymail, but I am amazed so many slashdotters are falling for it.
I see the term slavery being thrown out there like Foxconn is raiding villages and making chain gangs.
The people who work in these factories are often young migrants, leaving their homes to find better wages. They would seek out overtime hours so they can earn more money to send home or for their dream savings. They know it's tough work, but it's a much better wage than what they would otherwise get. Some people can't handle the stress from being away from home and working a tough factory shift.
China is in that era of an industrial revolution. Family farms are becoming non-sustainable and the next generation is moving into the city to find work. Unskilled labor tend to end up in factories and the rapid life style change along with the isolation puts a lot of stress on these kids. I'm not saying Foxconn shouldn't relax their work policies, but the we're avoiding the true problem here.
Sooo let me get this straight... Apple demands that it's suppliers treat their workers with a certain amount of respect and dignity, then performs its own investigation to make sure its suppliers are meeting this demands and finds that they are coming up short. Because of this, you've decided to boycott Apple's products. All the other tech companies in America don't give a rat's ass about how their suppliers treat their employees, but THAT'S ok with you?? You have a very odd set of morals...
Do you all feel guilty for buying an ipad , iphone, or ipod?
A "No Despair" pledge would be much more effective.
PROFESSOR JOBS' SCHOOL FOR GIFTED YOUNGSTERS, Shenzhen, Sunday (NTN) — In its annual supplier report, Apple has admitted that its Chinese factories have employed children to build its gadgets. "Ones with a particularly refined sense of aesthetics."
Apple revealed the sweatshop conditions inside the factories it uses. The child workers were found in a facility with high vaulted ceilings, elegantly crafted marble work benches and a classical quartet playing in the background in a corner of the floor. Young geniuses sat in their Aerons and levitated components into place with the powers of the mind, burning the famed Apple logo into the back of the assembled device with but a glance of terrifying but controlled power. Some lunches, with only an hour's break, would involve wines of less than ten years' vintage.
Competitors were outraged. "We are shocked, shocked to hear of Apple's ruthless exploitation of the chilll-drennn," said Steve Ballmer of Microsoft. "But then, what do you expect when they actually ask their suppliers about this stuff. Don't ask, don't tell! That's what made the 360 great!"
Apple's Chinese manufacturing facilities were the site of controversy last year when one young worker at Foxconn, who had teleported an iPhone home overnight, was found to have committed suicide by leaping from the top of the building, first breaking his own neck, and tearing out all his own fingernails on the way down. He was found with Apple logos carved into his back, obviously also self-inflicted. "A tragedy," said the report.
http://rocknerd.co.uk
They would get away with it too, because obviously anyone who will not pledge to not commit suicide is suicidal.
FC Spokesperson and Manager: Ahhhhh!
(after being shot in heart by revolting employees)
The employees are always revolting; this is a Rebellion!
No, seriously. China is currently manufacturing like we were right after our industrial revolution. Complete control of the workforce by the industry, with little if any protection. Think of unions whatever you want, but they made possible what we consider today our living standard. And as long as it's cheaper to use manpower than to invent machines to do the task instead, innovation will not happen either. There is a reason why civilizations that relied on slave work (and let's be honest here, this isn't anything but that) never were amongst the innovators. In former days, this meant that sooner or later you were surpassed and beaten into a pulp by a civilization that invested in technology to replace (expensive) workforce by machinery.
Sadly, that system doesn't work anymore because of international trade at a level unknown earlier. Also, the power of the industry is stronger than ever before, I'm not so sure we can consider ourselves democracies anymore, we're getting closer to a corporate state, where industry, not political or social interests, dictate the laws.
A step in the right direction would be to tie import restrictions on the working conditions of the people who make the stuff you want to import. Want to import, make sure your workers are treated right. And by right I mean, at least get close to what we consider humane.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
"Sign this Pledge not to commit suicide."
"No."
"I said, sign it! Or Else!"
"Or else what? You going to kill me for not signing a pledge that says I won't do it myself?"
To which the bleeding obvious response is...
"No, or else you'll get the sack and be turfed out of your company-provided accommodation".
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
Guns are the easiest and most common way to commit suicide, falls account for only 2.5% of US suicides, where as guns are >50%. To have that high a suicide rate without access to the "best" method is even more frightening.
If Foxconn would make a few concessions, or increase the quality of living even slightly, I bet the suicide rate would drop.
People are not machines, and it's dumb to treat them like machines. This is not a problem that has no solution. There are many countless ways to improve morale. Foxconn doesn't have to be the worst company in order to deliver the products the fastest/cheapest. Somebody give the management an Anthony Robbins tape...
It's better than that. Because of Apple's rules, the Foxconn workers who make apple parts get treated better than the workers at the same factory that make dell parts. This isn't about the workers or foxconn, it's about hating apple for any irrational reason they can think of.
Immediate termination of course.
Oh, wait. Let me rephrase that.
Suicides happen in all kind of economies, people get depressed, things happen in their lives, etc. - actually US suicide rate is higher then the China's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate). And if you count that there are 900 000 people who work for Foxconn the fact that only 18 people in 2010 committed suicide says that the rate is much lower than the average. It is 11.1 per 100 000 in US and 6.6 per 100 000 in China. So, you could say Foxconn improves the suicide rate vs. the average in China. Yes, working conditions are not that good on the factories, but I don't think that suicide rate is a good indicator.
iTunes for Windows on Ubuntu over wine!
839*929
Yeah, and if you really want to see some deplorable violations of human rights, just check out the suicide rate of MIT undergrads...
"They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
Didn't this happen a year ago?: http://gawker.com/#!5548195/heres-the-apple+factory-suicide-pledge
I'm all for investigating abuses in Chinese labor and dealing with them, but tis article is counter-productive. First, it constantly refers to Foxconn only in relation to Apple, not mentioning the dozens of other corporations it supplies. It repeatedly refers to facilities run by "Apple's supplier" but doesn't mention if they were actual facilities that make things for Apple and which Apple audits yearly and openly publishes information about and what they found and what action they took. It mentions Apples audits in the phrase, "...but its[Apple] own audit reports suggest suppliers in China may not meet up to these standards." It does not mention the list of changes Apple required from various suppliers nor the numerous suppliers Apple fired outright for violating Apple's human rights policy.
I find this article irresponsible because it is just heaping bad press on Apple (not the rest of the industry) when in truth Apple is the only company I have been able to find actually taking a stand and doing something about the problem. There is no mention of Asus, Sony, Intel, Acer, Nokia, etc. who are all supplied by Foxconn. Thus readers are misled into thinking Apple is the issue. All this article does is motivate Apple to stop publishing audits and stop all the good work they've been doing to remediate the labor problem. I'd like to be the first to throw a big "Fuck you!" to the Daily Mail for their irresponsible, slanted journalism.
Somewhere Lazarus Long isn't rolling over in his grave.
No, it means I am trying to put pressure on the big fish, not the little fish.
No, it means you're putting pressure on Apple instead of putting pressure on Foxcon.
By making Apple look bad, I am helping the workers to negotiate.
You're encouraging Apple to do business somewhere else. That won't help the workers. Since it's about Apple and not about Foxcon, you're not doing a whole lot to get them to soften their policies.
By defending Apple as you do...
I am not defending Apple. Singling them out doesn't help the workers.
You are little better than a murderer yourself.
I did not call you a murderer.
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
I'm not sure if it's effective to "force" them to sign the document but this is a common way to deal with suicidal individuals from a mental health perspective. You get people to sign a form, even just one you scribbled out right there, or give a verbal commitment to not kill themselves until the next time you see them, when you get the commitment again. It works for most people. Most people really don't want to kill themselves, they want to end pain or maybe even cause pain but few people who attempt suicide want to do it. They consider it because they believe it's their only realistic option for dealing with their problems. This is generally true in America, I don't know if it's the case in other parts of the world.
If I'm reading the article correctly, there were 14 suicides in 4/3 years (16 months) from a 500,000 workers.
From Wikipedia, the suicide rate in the United States is 11.1 suicides per year per 100,000 people. Which means 11.1 * 4/3 * 5 = 74 suicides would have occured over an average US population of the same size over the same time. By the same calculations the number of people from the People's Republic of China (with 6.6/year/100,000people) to commit suicide would be 44.
I'm not saying at all that they way they are treated is right or that they're being paid enough or that it could be better. The fact that Apple and other companies would make it's items thousands of miles away from where they are consumed seems to mean something is out of balance.
But 14 suicides doesn't seem to be an alarming rate at all from the numbers I'm looking at. And it's is significantly smaller than both 44 and 74. Someone please tell me where my logic is wrong. Is the statement of 500,000 employees correct the 14 suicides came from correct? Although again Foxconn's Wikipedia article lists 920,000+ (2010) employees.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_rate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn
I read the same statistics. The title of the Wired article just as well could have been "Apple's iPad Saves Chinese Lives"
If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
Contract Later reads 'Don't bother killing yourself--the work and hazards will work to ensure you to see the Gods (or God) sooner than you think. :)'
Which sort of points out something important about the job being pretty good by local standards.
Ahhhh, nothing like trolling Apple fans. Come on, I called you guys a cult in my first post, then I called you a murderer. Do you think there are really people who think that way?
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Just saying that Apple's love for downplaying the China thing is why the media loves to jump on it. When you freely and openly admit to something, it isn't much of a story to the press because they can't make it a scandal. When you try and keep it more hush hush, they'll like it just because they are "revealing" something.
... the suicide rate at Foxconn is STILL lower than the overall suicide rate in China.
Foxconn is a BIG company.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/foremski/media-gets-its-facts-wrong-working-at-foxconn-significantly-cuts-suicide-risk/1356
...until morale improves.
Parity: What to do when the weekend comes.
With all that joy in the work place it sounds like the capitalists and libertarians have taken charge of the economy in China. If one is a slave why is suicide less than a good idea?
yeah well for every apple product you don't buy, i'll buy two!
http://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
New FC Spokesperson: We are deeply saddened by the deaths of one of our managers and my predecessor, at the hands of our revolting employees.
The only surefire protection against Microsoft infections is abstinence. - The Onion
if you do commit suicide - you could face the death penalty?
This is a common fallacy. It is true that prices are set to maximize revenues, regardless of production costs, but the point at which revenues are maximized is influenced by supply and demand. When prices and costs are such that there is an economic profit to be made (vs. the opportunity cost), competition increases the supply and thus drives prices downward toward the cost of production. An increase in production costs drives marginal producers out of the market, reducing supply and thus raising prices. The correlation is indirect, but quite real.
Of course, supply and demand apply to wages as well. At the moment all indications are that there is no shortage of workers willing to accept these conditions in exchange for the current rate of pay. If you wish to better their conditions you won't do that by outlawing or otherwise penalizing the best jobs currently available in the region. You might consider driving up the demand by preferring high-value products manufactured in China; that would give the workers there a stronger bargaining position.
"The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Bastiat
You know, this makes me wonder. I can understand you killing yourself if you have lost your job and have no prospects for the future other than grinding poverty and/or humiliation. What I don't understand is why these people kill themselves while they are still on the job.
Work with me here. While I grant that the stress and humiliation is probably too much to bear for many people, if they couldn't hack it, wouldn't it be at least worth a try to see if you could find some way to slack off or make it more tolerable for yourself? You've got the option to end it all at any time, so why not see what you can get away with first?
I mean, if you are already about to go kill yourself, what is the worst they can do? Fire you? Well, let them fire you and *then* go kill yourself. Just don't put the cart before the horse here.
Don't want to work overtime? Then refuse to work it or find some way of not being there. Let them fire you if they find out. Your peers hate your guts? Well, fuck them. Let them humiliate you all they want while you catch a few rays. Or whatever rays you can get through all the smog. If it gets too bad, you are just going to jump off a building anyway. So again, fuck them.
Getting humiliated and there's no way it will stop? Beat the snot out of the asshole and then go kill yourself. Heck, you're in China... you could kill the guy and they will execute you with a nice hanging. You won't even have to try and commit suicide.
I'm not usually one to tell people to go postal or even to go slack off, but honestly, if these Foxconn jerks can take people from a culture that is already used to taking shit like this constantly and still manage to push them over the edge, well I think aforementioned jerks could use an attitude adjustment. And maybe, just maybe, you will actually inspire other people to go do something that will make other people's lives better in China. But that's not the point. The point is, sometimes the biggest advantage that you have is the sublime state of not giving a shit. Don't end it all before you can take advantage of it.
The Wired article a published a month or two ago claims that the suicide rate at American colleges is higher than at Foxconn.
Unless I'm missing something here.
Yep, you're missing the fact that the people who committed suicide at the Foxconn factory were working in the same area (the Apple plant is different to the Dell plant) doing the same thing and were in the same age group. Also the time frame was much shorter then the statistics in the Wired article (less then six months vs 1 year).
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
What do the workers in the HUMANCENTiPAD factory have to sign?
Your ass is grass. We own you.
-- Sig down
Sorry, but Foxconn's other clients aren't as newsworthy. Logitech and Dell aren't big enough names to warrant a mention.
How about Intel, Amazon.com, Cisco, HP, Nintendo, Nokia, Microsoft, Sony, and Samsung? All too small to mention? I agree mentioning Apple gets more eyeballs, but because of their popularity and news appeal, not just size. Not mentioning these other companies is absurdly irresponsible reporting.
Apple does business with a company that works its slaves until they die, end of story.
Everyone does business with companies that work people like slaves, especially in the electronics industry. Apple stands out because jobs actually tried going to all US manufacturing with his company Next and because Apple is about the only company firing suppliers for human rights violations and requiring changes to woking conditions for factories supplying Apple. Moreover, they're the only company conducting audits and openly publishing them for all to see, including what changes they require supplier to make. And there is the worst part of all this. It pays to shut up and do bad things, because being open and honest about what's happening while working to make things better for people, just gets the press to write misleading articles attributing abuses at your competitors' factories to you.
...You could stop torturing your employees. That might help curb the suicide rate. Just sayin'.
Let's see what they use as examples of excessive hours and draconian rules.
â- Excessive overtime is routine, despite a legal limit of 36 hours a month. One payslip, seen by the Observer, indicated that the worker had performed 98 hours of overtime in a month.
98 hours of overtime. In a month. I'll grant that's a lot of overtime. If he's working a 48-hour week, call it 192 hours straight time a month, and then 98 on top of that? If he's not working weekends, yeesh, that's a month of 14.5-hour workdays. That's hard, is really is, most people won't work days like that for a sustained period of time unless they're medical residents. Even if he *is* working on weekends, which if you're working that much OT you are, then it would take working 12-hour shifts on the weekdays and then coming in for 10-hour days on the weekends. *That* I've done, and plenty of other people have too without it being "inhumane."
And that's the article's outlier. Look at that legal limit. 36 hours a month? Jesus, the unions in this country would strike long and hard if an employer instituted a flat cap of 1.2 hours/day OT. Raise your hand if you've never worked more 36 hours a month OT. Now get off the computer and go get a job.
â- Workers attempting to meet the huge demand for the first iPad were sometimes pressured to take only one day off in 13.
Wow. Really? There's a rush of demand and you're so busy you have to work through the weekend? That happens so often in every business that it's a standard joke. And note even the wording: they're not required to, they're *pressured* to, and that only *sometimes*. Again, raise your hand if you've never worked two weeks off without a break.
â- In some factories badly performing workers are required to be publicly humiliated in front of colleagues.
Okay, this has never happened to me, it's not really a Western culture thing, outside of British public schools. American schools used to stick poor performers in the corner with a dunce cap, if Gasoline Alley and other such comics haven't lied to me, but I guess that's gone out of style.
â- Crowded workers' dormitories can sleep up to 24 and are subject to strict rules. One worker told the NGO investigators that he was forced to sign a "confession letter" after illicitly using a hairdryer. In the letter he wrote: "It is my fault. I will never blow my hair inside my room. I have done something wrong. I will never do it again."
Crowding? And strict rules? In China? Getthefuckouttahere.
â- In the wake of a spate of suicides at Foxconn factories last summer, workers were asked to sign a statement promising not to kill themselves and pledging to "treasure their lives".
Ah. The suicides. First, if Foxconn has a suicide problem, this isn't a dumb policy. The "I shalt not kill myself note" is actually a fairly standard bit of psychiatric treatment for would-be suicides, sort of like the suicide hotline phones on some bridges. Maybe it'll help, maybe it won't, but the fact that they're doing it doesn't demonstrate that they're inhumane and don't care about their workers, it demonstrates just the opposite.
And does Foxconn have a suicide problem? I doubt it. Foxconn's huge. They've got a million workers, 17 of which killed themselves over a five-year period. So that's a rate of .34/100k/year. China's overall suicide rate it 6.6/100k/year, so employees at Foxconn are killing themselves at a rate of about 1/20th that of the general population. In *China*. They're killing themselves at a rate of about 1/30th of the US population. So maybe this policy doesn't really demonstrate concern for their workers. Maybe it's just a pointy-haired-boss response to a stupid media panic fed by a general innumeracy amongst the population, I don't know. But one thing it's not is inhumane.
And then there's this bit:
Apple users dont want to admit for the price they are paying for their products they could easily be made in the US or at least
any asian country with decent human rights (Korea, Taiwan, Japan) or even semi-decent human rights(thailand, malaysia, indonesia) , but
apple pockets the profits instead of paying their employees a living wage. Walmart in china treats their employees better.
I think you missed the stories where they killed themselves because their life was crap, and their family would be financially better off due to a nearly guaranteed lawsuit.
Maybe not thinking in their right mind, but if that's the reason behind the suicides, this will put an end to it quickly. The family is only allowed to demand the legal minimum, which I'm sure makes this a disincentive.
Normally I'd agree with you, but there's backstory here you failed to take into account. Maybe the stories are real, maybe not, but it's most likely the reason behind this agreement.
The forced pledge has classic PHB written all over it.
Table-ized A.I.
Going postal in an iPad sweatshop (who owns that brand, btw) is pretty much ok, though?
``Tension, apprehension & dissension have begun!'' - Duffy Wyg&, in Alfred Bester's _The Demolished Man_
I have no feelings or respect for people who kill themselves, no matter what.I do hate employers who make people their slaves and treat them like dirt. But I mean WTF will you do if they signed the pledge and kill themselves anyway? Put them in jail to rot? LOL
Summary: "staff often work six 12-hour shifts a week, 98 hours of overtime in a month"
FTFA: "One payslip showed a worker did 98 hours of overtime in one month"
98 hours is not the "often" case, but one extreme occurrence.
Interestingly, this seems to be an evolution of the 19th-20th C mercantilist system.
First, the developed world exploited the undeveloped world for their raw materials, colonizing and dominating them in order to ship the raws back to the mother country. Now, it seems, that the West is more interested in exploiting the human resources (and not bothering to ship them in as a physical product, ala slavery) of these regions as cheap labor.
Eventually it's equally unsustainable, but between now and the realization of this it will probably take an economically- and socially-wrenching on the order of the US Civil War for us to move on from our current addiction.
-Styopa
I blame Apple for not doing more. You cannot control the Chinese socio-economic system through political discussions on human rights violations. Instead, you have to hit Chinese companies like Foxconn where it hurts, the wallet. Apple wants to market itself as a socially responsible company but by doing business with companies that abuse their employees, they do just the opposite. Apple has the power to deliver a strong financial blow to Foxconn should Foxconn not fall in line with expectations. However, corporate greed will enable executives at Apple to turn a blind eye to this all the while raking in money.
You may not believe this, but those working conditions are coming to America. It may take 20 years for it to happen, but America is failing while China is exploding. By 2018 they will surpass us as the number one superpower. Their "middle class" is already at 300 million, a number larger than the entire USA population. And it's growing quickly.
As China's middle class grows to about 700 million, they can become a self-sustaining economy, meaning that internally, there's enough people working, and making money to buy enough stuff to keep china's economy moving regardless of exports.
At that point, it's possible the American economy will collapse, as China doesn't need us anymore. And at that point, WE will become the cheap source of labor because America will be broke, building products for the Chinese.
And we'll be happy to work 7-days a week for a 12-hour shift making $1 per hour, because we'll all be trying desperately to pay off our massive debt to China, which at that point, will own all the banks.
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
I sort of remember, but I don't really pay attention to mods too much. And Apple fans are always whining about something, it's hard to keep track of their ire. I think authors mention Apple in stories like these just to poke the bear and get more page views.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
I always thought it was funny that (well maybe not funny, weird might be a better word) in many places suicide is "illegal".
I guess unless you fail, what exactly are they going to do about it?
Its like that news story about the person that got caught in Vietnam (or was it Thailand?) trafficking cocaine, and were sentenced to death by firing squad AND fined 100,000 dollars... I don't think I'd pay the fine.
That second bit (about the accommodation) was an assumption on my part as I understood it was quite common in China. Perhaps it shouldn't have been included as I didn't know that for sure.
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
I think you missed the stories where they killed themselves because their life was crap, and their family would be financially better off due to a nearly guaranteed lawsuit.
If this were true you'd expect a higher than population-average suicide rate at FoxConn, but the actual rate is lower.
Theory does not fit the data.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
How primitive. Don't they have an app for that?
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak