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Sweden Moving Towards Cashless Economy
cold fjord writes "Sweden is rapidly moving towards a cashless economy. How will Sweden, and other countries in the future, balance efficiency, privacy, government control, and civil liberties? Or will they do all that technology allows? 'Bills and coins represent only 3 percent of Sweden's economy, compared to an average of 9 percent in the eurozone and 7 percent in the U.S. ... The Swedish Bankers' Association says the shrinkage of the cash economy is already making an impact in crime statistics. The number of bank robberies in Sweden plunged from 110 in 2008 to 16 in 2011 — the lowest level since it started keeping records 30 years ago. It says robberies of security transports are also down. The prevalence of electronic transactions — and the digital trail they generate — also helps explain why Sweden has less of a problem with graft than countries with a stronger cash culture, such as Italy or Greece, says economics professor Friedrich Schneider of the Johannes Kepler University in Austria. The flip side is the risk of cybercrimes. According to the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention the number of computerized fraud cases, including skimming, surged to nearly 20,000 in 2011 from 3,304 in 2000.'"
I don't care what sort of up sides it has. The government being able to track every last penny spent is far too frightening to even consider.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Finland was even ahead of Denmark and Sweden on this front. Anyone with an up-to-date comparison between different countries?
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
Cashless means dangerous should our electronic web collapse. As long as cash currency is accepted it's always best to keep something on hand. Woe be the day we loose our paper or coin currency completely.
Visa and MasterCard couldn't be happier.
as long as we only have VISA and MasterCard a court order in the US can still stop us from donating to Wikileaks.
I never carry it, just by debit cards. An additional benefit is that all your expenses are right there on paper via bank statements so you can evaluate your spending habits. I'd say that 95-99% of the time it's not a problem for my lifestyle, but I do have to hit up an ATM occasionally for the car wash. Now, when it sucks is when you don't realize you'll need cash (cover charge at a door), vending machine snacks, etc.
I can see it not working for younger people and their more dynamic, partying lifestyles but it works well at the micro level.
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
Small transactions, power failures, and computer and network outages. Not every business will accept a check.
I agree there are many advantages to a cashless society but one weakness has bothered me for a while. I've personally gone mostly cashless over the last few years and have several times been unable to give anything to a homeless person. At times in the past I've offered food or bought someone a hamburger but there's not always the time or access to nearby vendors, cash is the easiest way to give a little help.
Also just yesterday I met a kid selling candy bars for his school fundraiser and wasn't able to help out there. It's almost like you have to give them card readers these days.
Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
...or he would be if he were dead.
FTS: " helps explain why Sweden has less of a problem with graft than countries with a stronger cash culture"
Sen. Dole takes out ~$10,000 in cash every couple of weeks, and admits is because he doesn't want anyone knowing how or where he spends is money. He even got investigated (briefly, politely) because of suspected money laundering due to his somewhat unusual volume of withdrawals.
I'm mixed on this. I would never want cash to go away; there are some things I just don't want records of. And it's not even the "you spend $100 at a strip club" stuff - I have no desire to track, or have tracked, little shit like a candy bar or a coffee, or the $20 I give the neighbor kid to mow my lawn while I'm away. But man, I love me the convenience of credit cards.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Bills and coins represent only 3 percent of Sweden's economy, compared to an average of 9 percent in the eurozone and 7 percent in the U.S
Sooo... it's more like *everybody* is moving toward a cashless economy, and Sweden is just closest? Um, yay, I guess? Maybe?
From the title I thought they were moving toward the Star Trek utopia with no money at all, and the economy is based on, um, well, I guess that's in one of the tech manuals somewhere.
the flip side of electronic money is 1) total government control. Not just government - we've seen how Visa affected Wikileaks, for example. Wouldn't have happened with cache. And 2) at least in the US model it's essentially debt money. That's the nature of how fractional banking operates. And debt money sounds bad
Physical currency is an archaic means of financial transactions. In our time we have no need for physical money, checks, or any of that stuff. Cashless means less crime, period. The internet is not going to crash, and our tech age is only getting better. I say down with paper money, it will save the world a lot of expense not having to keep fresh and valid currency in circulation.
All other benefits/drawbacks aside, our banks will sure love this.
Right now they are all advocating to use more card transactions but the shops/stores are resisting.
The reason? The bank will charge a percentage on the card purchase where as the cash payment is free.
On the other hand the store will have to buy cash to use for change.
What bugs me the most is that of the banks were to lower the rate for card purchase or even remove it, all the shops/stores in turn will promote the use of cards since that will lower their cost and risk.
This would in turn reduce the amount of cash and the costly handling of it for the banks. Less risk of robbery and similar benefits.
Brits are using withdrawing money from ATMs more than ever. Let's face it, with card fees and lack of privacy, cash will never fully go away.
For all intensive porpoises your a bunch of rediculous loosers
How will we buy weed in a cashless society where marijuana is illegal?
No, it does not explain why they have less trouble with graft. Scandinavian countries had less trouble with graft than Italy or Greece before there was even a concept of a cashless economy. It is a cultural thing. It is even possible that the same cultural factors that led them to have less trouble with graft also contribute to them moving so easily towards a cashless economy.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
you can have this car for 2 blondes a month.
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
They have some electronic wallet type system... which makes it actually hard for foreigners to go around in Japan, because there are very places to withdraw cash, and what more, most places take the electronic wallet, but not credit cards.
Whenever you hear of someone pushing to get rid of hard currency, they mention the decrease in crime... Yet the numbers here don't show me anything compelling. They show an 85.5% decrease in reported crimes relating to hard currency, and then gloss over a 505% increase in digital monetary crime. That's such a poor point to argue, why even mention it?
Here in Mexico the banks started to increase the number of debit cards, less people with cash means less robery, but an increase in "fast kidnappings". Basically they kidnap anyone randomly using any vehicle, being a taxi the most usual and in 3-4 hours visiting banks they empty you bank accounts.
Those who require cash for less scrupulous purchases will find new forms of currency, simple as that.
http://boingboing.net/2012/03/13/tide-is-the-new-currency-on-th.html
A dime bag will now be know as a tide bag
So I can send someone else money for free? I can accept money for free? etc?
Without zero cost transactions it's an epic fail.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Bills and coins only represent 3 percent of the economy. Engineers are only a small percentage of our population, does this mean we are moving towards an engineer-less economy?
Please don't confuse a balanced equation with an absolute endpoint. The balance between two models will shift back and forth, but both will always be with us.
Oh the irony...
Seen the pathetic state of both the U.S. and Europe's public debts, I don't hold much faith anymore in neither the USD nor the EUR. So what I don't own in real-estate / art / cars I changed to gold and... foreign currencies. Funnily enough I've got about 10% in swedish bills (physical bills, in a safe, getting me 0% of interest and inflation is screwing me, but as of now I consider it safer than any other plan *seen that I already have real-estate / art / etc.).
Oh well, I probably still have some time before they remove the bills out of the system ; )
We've been moving towards a debt based economy for a while now.
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
Will still be using cash, even when forced to use a foreign currency or plain gold. Maybe the "official economy" will become cashless, but unless you can make a direct barter deal, some form of currency will still be used to exchange goods or services.
I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
why we need cash
some small number of people actually freak out when you go to put their card the the "ka-chunker"
Cards without embossed numbers, such as Chase Slate credit cards and prepaid gift cards, don't work in the "ka-chunker".
Anyone else read that as "Sweden moves towards classless economy"? Alas, then I woke up. :/
Football Odds
Also, what about trades between friends?
The PayPal app, or perhaps the Dwolla app whose fees are lower.
How would you sell things on Craigslist?
Again, PayPal or Dwolla.
Do you really want to use a card transaction for a $0.25 cent item?
Hmmm, no authorship attributed to the article. What, the author(s) are enthused about this, but don't want to be tracked for their writing? Let's have some hacktivist group find the authors, and then check out their card-only transactions at the adult toy store, or the motel with the "co-worker".
And it's *so* meaningful to hand a little kid a piece of plastic, and then they have to guess what they can afford to buy, and cry when the card doesn't have that much on it.
And, of course, let's not forget that the banks will allow you to overdraft, *then* hit you up for large fees for that... or maybe *two* banks will hit you up for fees.
The possibilities for abuse are endless in this (!) Wonderful Future
mark
From the title I thought they were moving toward the Star Trek utopia with no money at all, and the economy is based on, um, well, I guess that's in one of the tech manuals somewhere.
In Trek, gold and latinum are among the things that can't be created in a replicator. That's why the Ferengi make their coins out of an alloy of these two materials.
After thousands of years of death, destruction, and injustice brought about by organized coercion (i.e. government), I find it astounding that anyone on this planet still trusts government.
On the other hand, it's obvious why the average human being does trust authority, nearly automatically and without question -- it's all he's ever known and he can't imagine anything different.
...how do you tip your strippers?
One morning in Sweden I downloaded a song from Bittorrent, that afternoon my moneycard stopped working
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
Let's be like the auto industry and play "catch up". This stuff should have happend years ago.
Sure the government could track my spendings, but guess what I want to track my spending, see trends, create budgets, etc...all without having to deal with 17 different companies (thank god for Mint.com; oh wait I'm sure they're datamining my transactions too).
Once we all go digital credits we just need to make sure we don't have monopolistic companies controlling the digital dollars and that there isn't some nonsensically high bar to get into that market for new companies.
But that's probably a laughable dream for this US citizen (with papers).
we need an energy/oil based currency, whereby all goods are priced in barrels of oil.
They will be captured by the new form of currency, and eventually grow to love it. No matter what horrible things it's done to them.
has a bit on his new album about fiat currency that really makes you think.
Perhaps the number of on-site robberies of physical currency plunged. I'm willing to bet the number of remote robberies of electronic currency more than compensated.
It does not.
Especially those committed by the government. Such crimes we usually call, "tyranny."
And isn't it subtle how the article positions the choice between a cashless and cash society as a choice between less graft or more corruption? That's called a false dichotomy. You can have a cash society and less government corruption. All you need, is less government.
did you mean to reference the Iron Maiden song 22 Acacia Avenue with your sample address?
anyway, I don't see how people knowing that you bought hamburger buns is a big deal.
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
That is the thing to understand. It is just a theory that lets us conduct trade far more efficiently by allowing for an infinite amount of indirection in both time and space for trades. As such it doesn't matter what is used for money so long as:
1) People agree it is money and can be spent, meaning they are willing to accept it in exchange for goods and services.
2) People do actually spend it, they don't just hoard it. Money is of no use unless it is spent.
That's all. It can be anything. It can be bits in a computer, paper notes, gold, salt, teeth (some cultures really used them), gigantic rocks (also really used), whatever. Makes no difference at all so long as everyone agrees to take it as payment and people actually are willing to spend it and not just hoard it.
Of course what you discover is that when you start to move to things like digital currency, it makes things much more efficient. It can grow or shrink easily as needed, it can move quickly and cheaply, it does a better job facilitating trade than more physical currencies. That makes it a better currency.
The problem is people want to think of money as a physical good of some kind. Nope, never has been even when physical goods were used to represent it. It is just a theoretical construct.
Forget the tin foil hat government paranoia. The HUGE problem that most people overlook is that you're handing 3% of all retail sales to Visa/MC. The problem is that this is out of sight and out of mind for 99% of the population that doesn't have a merchant account, and that people don't think that every time they use a card, Visa/MC is getting 2-3%. That's an absurd amount of a country's GNP to pay into one organization for what boils down to a convenience.
I don't respond to AC's.
I like cash
However, that might be due to me being a collector and Where's George? user, rather than strictly practical advantages of cash or disadvantages of electronic transactions.
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
Someday you'll have your own Watergate. NIXON'S BACK!!
is enourmously dangerous.
I would like to point out for the following reasons:
1) Once there is no cash, it will all be tracked. You won't be able to buy or sell without a mark or a digital signature. That means YOU. The elite will be able to do whatever they please.
2) Once they achieve this, any political dissent can simply defunded by turning off a switch in a computer.
That is why governments are desperate to have a cashless society. They can track anything you give to someone like for example, Alex Jones or anyone else that is in the business of tracking how these idiots are destroying civilization on a day to day basis.
Track and shut them down with a simple switch.
That is too much power for any one organization to have, I don't care what the arguments are for it.
3) The amount of corruption will be truly awesome with such a system as it will be very efficient to transfer money to anyone the government feels is a friend.
4) Slavery will essentially become a form of trade. Every month the government could tax you, and make your account negative sending you to prison if you don't make it positive again by the time the month is up.
Sounds nuts right now, but if I told you the US Military head doesn't deploy troops through constitutional means and is so thouroughly criminal that demands all troops be disarmed whenever he addresses them just 10 years ago, I am not so nuts _now_ am I?
Change indeed and not for the better!
5) The amount of robbery that will occur will explode. Primarily due to the fact the only people who can track what money is missing will be a few people in closed room looking at a display. Nobody else will know.
6) Economic slavery will become everyday life as a few elite punch in some numbers in the computers and the rest of us will have to work furiously to make those numbers up.
I don't trust bankers WITH hard currency, hell no, not going to trust them when they punch in any number they want into my account.
It is almost like having all black box voting, except we now get black box economics.
Heeeeeeeeelllllll no.
-Hack
Got Geometrodynamics? Awe, too hard to figure out? Too bad.
What is in Nordic culture that there is a lack of corruption relative to the rest of the world? OMG! it may be xanthochroidism.
Truth makes you waste mod points, prove otherwise.
I've always considered bitcouns to be little more than a pyramid scheme because their inherent deflationary nature means they will fail as a currency. Any other considerations aside, like security (I've still never seen anyone address how you get around timing/duplication attacks with it) it will still fail because it isn't good as a currency.
My example is to try and show people why deflation is bad (there are other reasons too, this is just a simple one). You discover that many of the bitcoin/gold standard types think deflation is wonderful because "It means the money I have gets worth more!" They make the mistake of thinking currency is something magic, and not just a theoretical construct used to facilitate trade.
Greece beats them to it...
Ba dump bump Spish!
people think sweden is such a great place but its got the same exact problems we see anywhere.
Could you please quote where anyone said anything about America or the private sector? Oh, they didn't, you're just trolling.
The main thing most commenters are missing is that when cash is gone, your digital money belongs to you only at the whim of the sponsoring gov't. As soon as the gov't decides that you might possibly be guilty of something that they don't like, they can and will instantly bankrupt you and deprive you of everything you own. A few keystrokes from your overlord, and you're completely wiped out.
Post something that sounds like "terror speech" on Facebook? Bam! Assets "frozen". How ya gonna get your food now?
Cashless Society = Complete and total gov't control over every citizen. Their ability to threaten and intimidate will be boundless.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/area-man-participates-in-21stcentury-cashless-econ,8969/
Never shake hands with a man you meet in a fertility clinic.
Here in New Zealand we're pretty cashless too.
I don't have any statistics (and the stats mentioned in the summary didn't sound too right) but from what I see here, people generally never use cash. You just see people using EFTPOS everywhere they go, for any small trivial amount.
Line up to get food somewhere, and every person infront of you pays using EFTPOS.
I go many many months without ever carrying a single bill or coin on me, and most people around me seem to be the same.
You see little fruit and vege vendors sitting on the side of roads, even out in the country. And they all accept EFTPOS.
So yeah. We're pretty cashless in New Zealand.
You can tell how powerful someone is by the magnitude of the crime they can commit and be able to get away with.
This discussion has brought back memories from a book I read in my youth. I highly recommend that you read it if you haven't. "This Perfect Day" , by Ira Levin (the author of Rosemarys Baby). The main frame computer that controls everything in this world assigns a number of credits to each citizen who can use them to "pay" for items in stores.
If my comment didn't sound as good in your head as it did in mine, then I guess we all know who's to blame
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/money/personal-finance/louisiana-bans-cash-secondhand-transactions
A new Louisiana law, House bill 195, passed earlier this year says that those who buy or sell secondhand goods are prohibited from using cash. State representative Rickey Hardy, who co-authored the bill, says: "They can give a check or a cashiers money order, or electronic (transfer)." Rep. Hardy says the bill is targeted at criminals who steal anything from copper to televisions, and sell them for cash. He claims that having a paper trail will make it easier for law enforcement: "It's a mechanism to be used so the police department has something to go on and have a lead." Besides non-profit resellers like Goodwill, and garage sales, the language of the bill covers stores that resell used goods and even flea markets.
DNA is a Turing machine. You, however, being dynamic and emergent, are not.
The step after this would be to imbed a chip or unique identifier into the person so that carring around a card would not be needed.
This would stop alot of theft; there would still be some merchants that would accept a seperated hand but once a person is declared missing or dead those could be tracked down.
Neither paper money, nor plastic card has any value. Gold, platinum, silver does and has been going strong for over 7000 years!
However, avoid diamonds, which is a big "chosen nation" scam. Diamonds are rather common in nature and their market scarcity is artifically imposed via the De Beers monopoly. Furthermore, diamonds do not last forever, they have a tendency to crumble into carbon dust in under a hundred years. Diamonds are especially prone to disintegration if a lightning strikes nearby, even when they are held in a safebox. The reason for this is not well understood, but probably EMI related.
Also, (yellow hue) gemstone diamonds can now be synthesized artificially, in an economical way. Good luck doing the same with gold! In fact, you can transmutate measurable gold by running a high-powered mercury vapor lamp for almost a year, except the electric bill will be like 120x the resulting noble metal value.
That's nothing! In Spain we are moving to a money less economy.