Slashdot Mirror
Former CIA/NSA Head: NSA Is "Infinitely" Weaker As a Result of Snowden's Leaks
An anonymous reader writes "The Huffington Post reports, 'Michael Hayden, former director of the National Security Agency, said Sunday that he used to describe leaker Edward Snowden as a "defector," ... "I think there's an English word that describes selling American secrets to another government, and I do think it's treason," Hayden said ... Some members of Congress have also ... accused him of an act of treason. Hayden said his view of Snowden has grown harsher in recent weeks after reports that Snowden is seeking asylum in Germany and Brazil in exchange for assisting their investigations into NSA programs. Hayden said the NSA is "infinitely" weaker as a result of Snowden's leaks. "This is the most serious hemorrhaging of American secrets in the history of American espionage," he said. "What Snowden is revealing ... is the plumbing," he added later. "He's revealing how we acquire this information. It will take years, if not decades, for us to return to the position that we had prior to his disclosures."' — More in the Face the Nation video and transcript, including discussion of the recent legal decisions, and segments with whistleblower Thomas Drake, Snowden legal adviser Jesselyn Radack, and Washington Post reporter Barton Gellman who recently interviewed Snowden."
That's it. That's all to be said. H
http://latablegastronomie.com.br/uploads/2011/05/asian-man-crying-gif-i1.gif :(
Look what you've done Snowden! ..
GOOD!
We were caught abusing the rights of the American people and the people's of many other nations. Now that we've been caught people won't trust us anymore. Fell so sorry for us!
I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. - Hunter S. Thompson
The only way to lose infinity and still have something left is when you start with infinity. Chances are, if that happens, you still have a lot left.
...and celebrate the long-term crippling of an evil agency.
Let's also lament the fact that Snowden won't be able to return to the country he helped so much.
They must of been infinitely powerful to begin with.
Unfortunately so is most of the government and the courts.
if people who took oaths to uphold and defend the constitution actually tried reading the document. Article 3, Section 3
Oh the land of the free, and the home of the brave.
Pity neither is true any more, and the US has become the worst parody of the Soviets.
This clown needs to get the NSA renamed as the Ministry of Truth.
I think there's an English word that describes a person who makes statements which are untrue, and I do think it's liar.
Treason is working against one's country. So the NSA has been the treasonous one.
Still waiting for the first shred of proof that the NSA's dragnet methods do any good whatsoever. Until then: nothing of value was lost.
That's funny, I consider "treating every citizen of your country as an enemy and a criminal" as treason, Mr. Hayden.
... illegal and un-Constitutional activity and I do think it is "criminal" and "un-American" respectively.
My thoughts on this are simple. It is in us, the people who live in the USA's best interest that this leak happened. Plain and simple the NSA has been running wild with a total disregard to the constitution. I personally want to see the NSA disbanded as they will never be taken seriously again by america, and they will never be trusted again by the rest of the world.
Now as for doing damage that is in regards to other countries, I think the way snowden went about things was actually the best way he could have given the circumstances. He did not just dump the files, unredacted for the entire world to see and learn from. The articles and information that up until this point been released have been screened pretty well to protect numerous secrets.
From my point of view yes Id love to see all the data, unredacted but I underrstand that would have been a disaster for a number of reasons, one of those reasons being the concern of the people who are anti snowden, they are making the argument as if the entire treasure was dumped. but it wasnt so their argument doesnt hold water. The other reason, and the oneI am more concerned with is that if he dumped it all at once, it would be much easier for our no attention span having population to forget about it and move on to the new shiny of the day, and all of that information would be for nothing.
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
i mean really...what else is this guy gonna say?
never bring a twinkie to a food fight.
GOOD
...exactly why? They still do dragnet surveillance; their backdoors are still in place; they only lost what they gleaned from Google's internal network.
I wouldn't go as far as saying he has made the United States any weaker. The world is still revolving, and there has been no blowout other than lost trust, and a lot of red-faced vendors (Cisco, RSA, Google, etc). I WILL go as far as stating he has had a negative impact economically on many companies who are now losing business due to the leaks. Governments are well aware that EVERYONE is spying on EVERYONE. No one is innocent in this game of espionage. Snowden has however caused many people to lose their jobs, and this I have seen first-hand.
If Snowden would have voiced his concerns to his immediate supervisors, he would have been silenced immediately.
You can tell that it is the plumbing because it is mostly full of shit.....
"It will take years, if not decades, for us to return to the position that we had prior to his disclosures." - Michael Hayden
One can only hope the later. Sorry, but the most important thing Snowden did was show us that the NSA had betrayed the public it was meant to server. In effect, he served us better than you did. This trust SHOULD take decades to get back.
"This is the most serious haemorrhaging of American secrets in the history of American espionage," he said. "What Snowden is revealing ... is the plumbing,"
Worse than when Soviet intelligence penetrated the Manhattan project at every level that mattered thus enabling Stalin to take a multi year shortcut to building his own bomb? I mean let's not over dramatise this, the ability to steal airplane sales from Airbus and hand them to Boeing, to steal IP from foreign companies and donate them to US competitors, blackmail foreign politicians, etc..., may be important but an A-bomb can vaporise a city along with millions of it's inhabitants.
It still exists though, so...hyperbole.
Luckily for the NSA, the guardian hasn't said anything about specific operations or people involved. The releases have been about methods and reach, which aren't the same. The only surprises there are that the NSA was more active than most people thought.
There's nothing in there that's mind-glowingly unbelievable, like the NSA hooked up some kind of transmitter to an eyeball and has been using that realtime video feed to monitor meetings.
Of course, there are a few more million documents, but I'm sure the really juicy ones are being withheld.
If they had not been abusing their power to conduct illegal surveillance then Snowden may not have resorted to this. Perhaps then their techniques would have remained secret and been available for legitimate purposes. Perhaps they should be looking in the mirror when placing the blame.
And I suppose the only thing that could strengthen the NSA is a huge dose of Federal funding along with a few new contracts, right?
The president's budget is coming out in a few weeks. What uncanny timing.
"It will take years, if not decades, for us to return to the position that we had prior to his disclosures."
Yes, and the hope is that the US will have a very public conversation about whether that position is something we want to allow you to return to in the meantime.
War on Drugs is against the citizens of the USA, and the NSA has been a part of this with the SOD and parallel construction. So one could make the argument that anyone involved with the NSA is guilty of treason.
So he is a traitor to the US to ...Germany? Aren't we allies or something or do we have no allies when it comes to data?
ALL THE REST OF US believe that "the position" they "held" is and/or should be flat out ***king illegal. We think the morons passing laws that mangae to circumvent and directly violate key attributes of our democracies - are the traitors. It's getting damn close to the time when a "citizen's rights" shouldn't be bound by borders, and a governments "limitations on powers" shouldn't end at the borders nor be different outside the borders.
Actually, that sounds exactly like the governmental state equivalent of "Freemen on the Land"!
"I think there's an English word that describes selling American secrets to another government, and I do think it's treason," Hayden said.
Well, not if the revelations are about illegal - and especially unconstitutional - behavior.
What is more important, the fourth amendment or a program that has had extremely limited success. It will take years, decades for the fourth amendment to be restored.
When did Snowden sell secrets? I thought he released them to the public, I never read anywhere that he SOLD them.
What we don't see in the Snowden revelations is any scrap of value derived from the NSA's blatant power-grab. As I understand it, the essence of NSA's defense is "but...TERRORISTS!", yet they have failed to produce any results that come even close to justifying their extraordinary usurpation of power. Even if the NSA could demonstrate real value in the data they've stolen, they would still have to justify their process for taking it from us. Last I knew, the constitution does not state "the ends justify the means".
I do not know what is more disturbing. The facts revealed by Snowden, or the statement by Hayden that the goal is "to return to the position that we had prior to his disclosures".
To Terminate, or not to Terminate, that's the question - SCSIROB
I am reminded of
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it! I would rather you just said "thank you", and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to!"
and so on..
i have a feeling that nothing really will change, they will just be more secretive until we the people decide that
" I feel the need... the need for" freedom
"Infinitely weaker' would mean powerless.
IF the NSA were powerless then it should be dissolved. Since No-one in the NSA is saying THAT should happen, they must think they still have a lot of power.
I don't doubt the NSA's spying effectiveness has been diminished, but I think the implication they are impotent is a lie.
Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
Now the same post that his fanbois have been posting all month can be posted again. And I can't wait to read tomorrow's Snowden threads so I can see the same whining all over again.
"He's revealing how we acquire this information. It will take years, if not decades, for us to return to the position that we had prior to his disclosures."'
Let us hope we can never return to that position.
So the NSA was completely useless before they were spying on all of us? How did they do their jobs before these unconstitutional programs? What an ass.
Sounds to me like Hayden's just afraid that he'd be subject to arrest and prosecution if he visits wherever Snowden lands. If he'd only done nothing wrong, he'd have had nothing to hide, and nothing to fear punishment for if caught. Perhaps he shoulda thought of that sooner. Sure, someone else would have done the job if he'd quit instead of following orders, but at least he'd be guiltless (or less guilty). There's a certain irony that Hayden could be a criminal in a land where Snowden could be free -- although I doubt either one will happen.
I am not a crackpot.
At this point, I think we'd be better off if the NSA's efficacy were reduced to zero (infinitely weaker: 1/x -> 0). Then we could rebuild it from the ground up with proper political, legal, and operational controls.
In fact, I suspect that the NSA retains most--if not all--of its operational capabilities.
The NSA doesn't face any significant legal restrictions. The law allows them to do most of what they want, and they just do the rest anyway, secure in the knowledge that the courts won't(?) can't(?) shut them down.
The NSA does have a political problem right now. It's not much of a political problem: most of the political establishment wants them to keep doing what they are doing. They wouldn't have any political problem at all if their P.R. weren't so inept. Hayden yammering about "defectors" and "treason" and "infinite weakness" is just more P.R.
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
– Benjamin Franklin, 1759
The real Sig captains the Northwestern. This one captains
If the NSA doesn't want to be damaged when their secrets are revealed, they shouldn't keep secrets. I'm pretty sure they could operate almost as well if they assumed everything they do is public. You can't have more than the illusion of freedom when the gov't is keeping secrets from you.
" It will take years, if not decades, for us to return to the position that we had prior to his disclosures."
First, if someone (NSA) breaks the laws of the country and gets caught, wouldn't the expectation be that they stop doing that?
This statement indicates that the NSA doesn't get it. The expectation is that they will continue with the surveillance
state as planned.
Second to that, no one from the government has actually taken this statement to task. This indicates
that it will be business as usual for the NSA and CIA no matter what the laws of the land are.
Finally, the lack of actual caring from all quarters about this would indicate that all the elected representatives
in government are on board, no matter what their bobbing heads say on T.V. . Apparently the law doesn't apply to employees
of the state since no one fom the NSA has been arrested or fired.
The dude was revealing unconstitutional behavior on part of the US government towards it's own citizens. The "leak" was to the US electorate as a wake up call. The labels hero and patriot might apply, but certainly not traitor.
Hopely never will get back to it. The position before disclosures were happily attacking, installing backdoors, infiltrating into private encrypted channels/vpns and networks, stripping everyone in the world of any hope of privacy (and enjoying it). Getting back means that even with this revelations they will continue to perpetrate those crimes and that the governments of the world didn't learnt anything from this event.
There are, no doubt, people in the US government who think everyone is the enemy, but they haven't bothered to declare war on them to actually make it so.
If their actions are not a declaration of war then what would be?
> "he used to describe leaker Edward Snowden as a "defector""
He is a defector. Away from the rogue near-nation of the NSA and toward the United States' Constitution.
grumpycat_good.jpg
... illegal and un-Constitutional activity and I do think it is "criminal" and "un-American" respectively.
You forgot "treason". That's the other word for acts against the Constitution.
You know, I think I heard that one of these NSA/CIA guys had a suggestion about what should be done with people who commit treason - something about ropes and necks...
You never really know how close to the edge you can go until you fall off.
"I think there's an English word that describes selling American secrets to another government, and I do think it's treason,"
Fascinating, but irrelevant. How about a word that describes giving NSA secrets to the sovereigns (We The People) of the United States, when those secrets expose violations of The Constitution? I'd use "whistleblowing", something the POTUS promised to protect when he asked us to vote for him.
Stop-Prism.org: Opt Out of Surveillance
The sooner he is swinging from the end of a rope until he is 'dead dead dead' the better off America and the rest of the world will be. Just don't hold your breath.
You can smell the fear the Federal government has, and it's not muslim jihadists they are concerned about.
To assume only the US have developed these systems of surveillance, simply because this is the only information that recently has become public knowledge is naive to say the least. I do not believe the gathering of intelligence of this magnitude is unique to the US.
You didn't mention the money. This guy is certainly raking in 6 figures in the business of spying. Snowden represents a threat to that cash flow.
Is there anything else we need to know? I doubt it. When it comes to government, follow the money first, and ask opinions later.
What these guys claim, so, is that NSA was terribly weak in advance, given its potential vulnerability against (just) one eventual detractor (or traitor, whatever). NSA's fault, sorry.
The NSA should not be allowed to return to the position they were in prior to Snowden's disclosures. EVER!
Make no mistake, there will be changes, but they will not be the result of “we the people” are incensed and enraged by the indiscretion and total disregard of laws and rights from our Government. This Government is owned and run by international corporations. In light of the Governments activities large companies are losing business. Cisco has complained that foreign customers no longer trust their product. Boeing lost a 4.5 billion dollar contract in Brazil because of the spying. When enough companies have lost revenue, the NSA will get immediately collared.
Snowden is a hero for revealing secrets that need revealing. He is a villain for revealing more than necessary. He is brave for essentially throwing his life away. He is a coward for not being willing to accept all of the legal consequences for his actions.*
With a treasure trove of tell-alls as big as Snowden's allegedly is, I doubt he's had the time to sort out the things our government is doing that are generally likely to be considered by Americans and American allies as immoral or against our own Constitution from those that aren't.
There is no doubt that American owes Snowden a debt of gratitude for shining light on activities which are likely to have at least 4 of 9 Supreme Court justices ruling them unconstitutional, should a relevant case ever reach their docket, as well as many other activities which, while clearly constitutional, are generally regarded as things a civilized government simply should not do, at least not outside of times of war, invasion, or rebellion.
However, the odds are high that not all of the secrets he leaked are those kinds of secrets.
To the extent that Snowden is leaking secrets of things that Americans would NOT generally consider immoral or unconstitutional AND, (for things that affect other countries or their citizens) things which those other countries not only find immoral but which they themselves do not do, Snowden should've kept his mouth shut.
Perhaps the United States Government should take a page from the Doctor Who television episode "Tooth and Claw"** and give Snowden a medal for releasing the secrets that show American was acting immorally and/or unconstitutionally, then charge him with treason for releasing secrets whose release expose anything that needed the disinfecting light of sunshine cast upon it. Maybe they will let him wear his medal and write his (classified, until Washington says otherwise) memoirs while he serves his time in Club Fed???
*The hallmark of an honorable person engaged in civil disobedience (or insurrection, treason, etc.) is their willingness to accept the full legal consequences to themselves for any actions they take on behalf of "the people."
**In the episode, Queen Victoria knights The Doctor and his companion then banishes them both. This episode is also part of the back-story for the spin-off series Torchwood.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Agreed.
If, as a country, we believe that the right to be secure in our own papers, then Edward Snowden is a hero.
This guy is just in it for the fame and cash at this point. He wants more paid gigs giving his opinion out, it's easier to get paid having a polarized stance, regardless of accuracy or insight. Hayden is short-sighted, the system he says is meant to "protect America" is a threat to the very fibers of democracy. In a future where every digital fingerprint and trace of all potentially elected leaders is cataloged and kept in NSA databases, there's a very palatable and real end for "democracy" in the not-to-distance future. All elected leaders will be controlled by such an apparatus.
Snowden could have leaked far more damaging details, and to more than journalists. The fact of the matter is, the majority of Americans don't support what the NSA is doing in their name, but the NSA isn't interested in Democracy or American principles in general. They're interested in exploiting any and all information to their gain.
The NSA is the most dangerous Advanced Persistent Threat ever known to mankind.
But Snowden didn't sell American secrets, and a fortiori neither did he sell them to a government, so even by the definition Hayden himself employs Snowden is not guilty of treason.
Hayden also doesn't understand what "infinitely" means.
The NSA really bet that, over time, none of the thousands of employees having access to this data would leak some of it ? That's really stupid at best. If something is weak, it's by design here. Yes, it takes some real guts to do this leak, but that had to happen. I am actually glad it did.
"I think there's an English word that describes selling American secrets to another government, and I do think it's treason,"
That's only really true if what the US government is keeping secret is morally and legally justifiable. Otherwise what Mr Snowden did is best described as heroism. All the evidence we presently have indicates that the activities of the NSA are very likely in violation of any reasonable interpretation of the 4th amendment. It's pretty hard to trust a secret and unaccountable organization especially when to every appearance they seem to be ignoring any rules they find inconvenient.
Does making the NSA "infinitely weaker" still leave them "infinitely strong"?
that a government supposedly "of the people, for the people, and by the people" has such an adversarial relationship with its people.
When does this happen in the movie?
Security means that there is no way no one know about my personal information.
Companies can go over the president and recover a tiny portion. However, they are as guilty as them.
Small portion from upstairs government benefit from this Matrix Recollection and use it to cover up crimes as National Security.
Public does not trust gov because they are starting to understand this.
The public is not the only one affected. Also, the employees from the very intelligence agencies seems to be affected.
Who's to blame ? The very evil that is killing in the shadow and watching from upstairs government. Maybe they are involved in selling intelligence.
When Snowden first started leaking he was, as is usually for the Obama administration, grossly overcharged. Instead of considering him a whistle blower or hitting him with minor charges regarding classified information the administration went for espionage. Espionage is a capital crime. They also threatened people to get him back.It is the USA that moved a whistle blower to a traitor.
If these secrets are really that damaging than Snowden should be given full immunity for past acts and the right to testify to congress behind closed doors. Otherwise all this "traitor" stuff is just more of trying to discredit him and distract from the conversation, the same as when they were mocking his girlfriend in the beginning.
I'm sorry but President Obama campaigned on shutting down the domestic telephone surveillance program under Bush. Instead he expanded it. He argued there was congressional oversight even while congress couldn't get documents and thus couldn't exercise oversight. I like Obama, I voted for him, I'd vote for him again. But he's just dead wrong on his war on leakers. We live in a democracy and we should not be engaging in intelligence activities not specifically authorized by Congress. It is simply too dangerous to the democracy to have a quasi military branch of government accountable only to the President.
The dilemma here is that even if we fix the NSA, rein it in with laws and budget cuts the problem is still not solved. The Chinese, criminal gangs, hackers all operate the same way as the NSA but will not be effected.
What is needed is to secure the internet. It was designed in an era when a “gentleman’s agreement” was sufficient to insure a reasonable civility on the net. Those days are over, long over.
We need all parties, even the NSA, to work together to improve the security of the net. In the past NSA people were members of these standards setting groups and subverted their efforts. When new standards are set everyone will be looking at everyone else with suspicion. This one fact may make the process work this time around.
We cannot prevent people from trying to spy; we can make it very hard to do.
Let me get my tiny violin
The only thin g that happening is they are weakening their own credibiklity (what's left of it) by their continued transparent lies, deceit and attempts to cover their tracks.
I find many of these threads fascinating as a non-USA citizen and think the government of the USA with their information gathering agencies should consider the impact their activities have on the rest of the world — after all, the United States of America represent less than 4% of the world's population ... but hey! who cares about a measly 96+% of the people of the world?
... er, what?!?
It seems to me that USA has a holier-than-thou attitude where anything in USA's interest is allowed and anything against USA's interests is illegal. If Snowden (USA) shares intelligence information with The Guardian (UK), it is illegal; if NSA (USA) shares intelligence information with GCHQ (UK) it is perfectly legal
Lastly, more as an example of the attitude of the USA government than because it has anything directly to do with Snowden et al: If somebody creates a website that is perfectly legal in their home country (like creating a gambling site) but illegal in USA, that person cannot enter USA or any of its territories without the risk of arrest, whereas if somebody from USA creates a website that is perfectly legal in their home country (like a website advertising prescription drugs) but illegal in many other countries, that would not normally have any impact on their travel in those countries.
The day I see sNOwden hanging by his neck for the treason he has committed will be a day I may break out the champagne and imbibe, faith having been restored in the halls of justice.
This guy really shows the gaping magnitude of the assholes at the top of many parts of the American government.
we all agree the NSA is weaker. The question on the table isn't did he make NSA weaker but was it worth it? The NSA was making America supremely secure by violating the personal privacy of everyday individuals. Very nearly approaching that absolute power proverb. I'd like to hear him comment on whether he thinks America is more true to it's mission now that everything isn't being held up in the guise of security.
I for one pretty much want them to NEVER get back to where they were - if the NSA wands to spy on every person outside our broders every waking moment, go ahead - ... that's a political matter - I think it harms us more than it helps, but hey, that's what spys do.
However, the minute they turn their gaze inward - indiscriminately picking up communications / data/ video/ pictures, etc of ordinary Americans inside US borders well, that's where the line is drawn.
Hell, if they accidentally collected some citizens info in the course of monitoring a person of interest who has come into the US, ok, it's a fair cop - easy mistake... but it should be the exception, not the rule, and when you start to mix that unrestrained spy-agency level ability of snooping with federal and law enforcement officials for actions inside the US that have NOTHING TO DO with National Security: well, then you've gone too far.
This flies in the face of the 1st, 4th, and 5th amendments. This is about building a survailence and police state. This is not the direction I want to see our country take - we need to be directly speaking Truth to Power (which is what Chelsea Manning and Edward Snowden have done).
We need to stop living in utter fear of our own shadows - not letting the terrorists WIN by feeling terrorized and not let our government BECOME the terrorists (using intimidation and violence for political aims)
The Digital Sorceress
"He's revealing how we acquire this information. It will take years, if not decades, for us to return to the position that we had prior to his disclosures."
Hopefully the revelations about what they have been up to will be enough to prevent them from ever being able to "eturn to the position that we had prior to his disclosures".
'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables
Ostensibly, the NSA's recording and then subsequent unpacking of all communications is to help prevent terrorist attacks. If they never reveal how these helped, truthfully not helping any investigation, or just to avoid showing their hand to suspected terrorists in a courtroom - the same paradox arises: The "terrorists" are part of the population that demands freedom from tracking. In other word, they are hiding among the populace.
The question we may all want to face is if a terrorist bomb takes out a bus with our family on it, would any amount of NSA tracking be acceptable? If the attack was instead thwarted via a program that was never, ever revealed (officers just magically knew about a plot), we'd be exactly in the current situation. So I find it difficult to accept that I know the truth about this situation still.
I don't trust the NSA - not so much about the snooping on general citizens, but that their program won't be used to find critical journalists, political opponents, budgetary critics, and perform a scientology-style smearing of their character. If they detect a bunch of would-be terrorists via web usage, TOR hacks, phone snooping, I would have to just go along with it: so far, no representative or candidate of my district is ready to stop any of these programs, although I've writen them about how we can put checks and balances into the programs.
If theoretically the NSA could know about *everything, everywhere* - would this be beyond some personal limit? What is the limit of what a police program should track about the citizenry?
now produces 1/1000 of an unverifiable benefit, at an unknown cost to boot.
Look, there has to be *some* transparency that's independently verifiable. Right now, if I was a business analyst and tasked to determine the cost/benefit of the NSA, I couldn't do it, an neither could anyone else. Certainly not cluster of clueless congressmen.
If the NSA wants to continue existing in some form, it's going to have to open up to some degree. Moreover, some things *have* to remain off-limits, like spying on friendly heads of state, congress itself, suprement court justices or the president. Right now, they're *all* gunning for the NSA, because they've all realized that they too, have been spied on. That too, will have to be independently verifiable.
It's doable, just not comfortable.
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
I read the title as: Sauron Is "Infinitely" Weaker As a Result of Destruction of the One Ring
The NSA has been "weakened" in the same way that law enforcement is "weakened" by having to follow rules about evidence and warrants. It would be so much easier if they could just bust into any home/business whenever they wanted for any reason they could think up, but there are all these pesky rules they need to follow. Of course, the reason for these rules is to prevent abuse, corruption, and protect innocent people's rights.
In other news, my employer is "financially weakening" me by not giving me a $100 million salary!
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
No one on earth trusts a word you say. Every single person remotely connected to human civilization has heard about what you've done. You have violated your own country's highest laws, violated the laws of countries around the world, and have spent enough money doing so that the USA could have supplied free healthcare to a sizable portion of its population.
Why would you ever speak to the media under circumstances like this? You know no one is going to take you seriously. You know no one is going to believe anything you say, no matter what you say. You cannot even really supply evidence at this point because you have violated trust at so deep a level, and gone to such extremes to do it, that no one will believe the evidence is real. All you accomplish by speaking is to further antognoize and enflame nearly the entire population of your country (and the world?). Is there anyone with half a brain working at this organization to do PR strategy?
The only reason I am not leaving the country in terror over the NSA is that they appear staggeringly incompetent at everything they do. Perhaps this is their strategy...?
Good thing that's not what Snowden did at all, then.
Congress authorized it. What the NSA has been doing is legal.
What Snowden did was illegal.
Why doesn't he commit suicide instead of being a pussy trying to sell what he stole?
Any comment by a former head should be be viewed as disinformation or "debriefing" where the brif you recieve is for the purpose of creating a false impression of an action that has just been taken, with a view by the perpetrator to cloak an accurate assesment of operations and keeping adversaries in the dark. 'Cause you'll never know if Snowden bit 90% or 10% of the intelligence apple, and neither does he. The head might know, but why would he give you an honest assessment?
Just part of the full court press against Snowden, which does not mean he is Hero or Enemy, it's more subtle and complicated than that, depending...
Why does the NSA hate our Freedoms?
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
One thing, and one thing only, makes the NSA significantly stronger- an increasing yearly budget. Lax or non-existent oversight goes hand-in-hand with any security linked governmental department with a massive and growing budget.
Knowledge of this budget, or knowledge of what the NSA spends its money on, CANNOT harm the NSA in any possibly way, UNLESS the sheeple are actively engaged in changing their governmental forces in the most fundamental way.
Historically, Australia and Brazil (or it might have been Argentina) did dismantle the majority of their own FULL SURVEILLANCE projects in the distant past, when the extent of these activities became apparent to powerful, democracy-loving politicians, but times have long since changed, especially since the rise of Tony Blair. Back then, it was possible for a MAD individual to subvert the security apparatus of a lesser nation for his own insane goals, and grow the apparatus of a police-state pretty much single-handed, while the politicians seemingly sat on their hands. But in both these cases a tipping point happened when senior politicians eventually asked "why on Earth do we want a facility like this to spy on the entire civilian population of our nation".
In a post-Blair world (which hardly means Blair is out of the picture- quite the opposite), no-one in power in the West questions the ever growing police state apparatus that Blair declared, over and over and over, would be "essential" in the world after 911. To 'vanilla' politicians, the temptation to have every form of intelligence about potential voters proved irresistible.
If there is one thing ambitious, vanilla politicians are groomed to desire, it is FEEDBACK. NSA full surveillance projects close the loop. The mainstream media all co-ordinate to run a given propaganda campaign (say, Syria must be subjected to the greatest aerial bombardment in Human History), and the NSA provides, in realtime, the 'thoughts' about this propaganda in the minds of hundreds of millions of sheeple. That Tony Blair failed to get his holocaust in Syria earlier this year tells you exactly what message the NSA was getting from its surveillance of you and the rest of the population of the West.
Why Snowden? Why now? The answer is very scary. A different tipping-point has been reached- one where too many of Blair's lesser 'allies' in the USA and Europe think full surveillance spying on the people is going way too far, and some form of nasty backlash is imminent. Blair sought to reassure these "Nervous Nellies" that nothing could be further from the truth. Snowden, like Assange before him, is but another intelligence operation- this time the feeding of information (some true, some false, and some badly out-of-date) into the public consciousness. Blair is saying to his people "look, the sheeple know all about NSA spying on their lives, and what do they do about it? Rush to buy Xbox One consoles so we can see and hear what they are doing in their own homes. And these are the morons you fear?"
Everyone who lies for a living knows that a growing mountain of secrets becomes ever more difficult to manage. Successful liars always seek, therefore, to minimise the lying- and this means that 'secrets' are, as a quite purposeful strategy, 'leaked'.
Do Assange and/or Snowden realise they are dupes, whose every move was carefully tracked and co-ordinated by the most powerful people within the intelligence community. Of course not- psychologists chose these two for their ideal personality traits. Whereas Assange is straight-up filth, Snowden is a good-guy optimist who honestly hopes there are good people like him out there in every position in society, who will use these revelations to reshape policy in a pro-Human direction. Sadly, Snowden is completely deluded- Blair loyalists are in absolute power in the USA, UK, Canada, Australia, Japan, Germany and Russia. In every other significant nation, Blair loyalists hold many positions of major power and influence.
Snowden revealed just how 'in bed' with the NS
Who are these enemies of which you speak? The Chinese? The Russians? The French? Al Q?
Do tell.
It is very disturbing to hear that someone that was appointed to such a senior position has such an extreme viewpoint. Hopefully Americans will now press for some real reform of the US regime. Democracy obviously can't function under the current US political system. The Supreme Court is loaded with ideological nuts, the president looks weak and inept, both parties are flogging the dead horse of 'free market' capitalism, as it dies on its knees, absorbing the largest state subsidies ever - pressed into the grasping hands of the wealthy.
What? Is defaulting me as "Anonymous Coward" supposed to shame me or anger me into posting as my real name? It's not working.
That "NSA Is “Infinitely” Weaker As a Result of Snowden’s Leaks" is a good thing. Very Good.
1. For lying to Congress under oath - it's called "perjury"
2. For violating the Constitution - criminal breaking of Oath of Office.
3. For spying on the American people - treason.
Snowden didn't sell his secrets. He gave them free of charge to the press.
This is what Snowden does to his homeland, the country that raised him and gave him so many (legal) opportunities.
He exploits what others gave him in confidence.
He has no conception of how the freedom and prosperity he enjoyed (and wishes to continue enjoying) was developed from nothing.
He's a luser and deserves to die imprisoned of hunger.
Inifinitely weaker after U.S. led invasion overthrows Nazi regime.
The question is not whether the NSA's position is currently weaker or more compromised. It's whether that prior position was wrong, and whether the current position is not in fact a better one.
I guess it's a good thing Snowden didn't 'sell secrets to another government' but rather 'made them public for free to everybody'.
Not that it makes any difference to the authoritarians, who are still going to label it any way they please.
And I feel Snowden aided the U.S. people against a clear and present danger to American safety and the Constitution. That being the NSA.
It is because the United States is both too arrogant, and too heinous. When this came out and we had proof the NSA was acting beyond their capacity and had blatantly lied both to the general Congress and the Security Committee (which is authorized to hear such things). The first thing that should of been done was to have the Senate grant Snowden immunity, bring him back to the U.S. and address the issue.
Having done so would have limited any release of material, access of foreign nations, etc.
But everytime some dumbass Senator or former NSA/CIA/TSA/ASS head goes out and speaks about how horrible Snowden is and ignores their present actions. I become more and more and more convinced, that Snowden did what was both right and necessary. And that is by definition a hero.
You can give them every dot in the known universe, they still never connect them. And it sure as hell won't stop planes from being blown up again.
That said, American passengers, WILL keep "passenger" planes from EVER being used as missiles again. If it ever happens again it will use cargo or military planes.
Is the NSA weaker after Snowden leaks, or is computer security over all when the NSA socially engineered all major security vendors and telecoms and the resultant fraud of companies selling rooted products? We all knew what was going on, we just didn't have proof of it until the Snowden leaks, so yeah I'd have to say the economy was damaged long before the Snowden leaks..
Realize we're right there with you....we're victims of our own police state gone rogue.
>They he added that for the rest of the world, the NSA is not limited by any laws.
Means that fibre optic cable zig-zagging over the US/Canadian border qualifies as 'international' and therefore bypasses US constitutional protections.
---- The above post was generated by the Turing Institute. Maybe.
If the nation has "Most Favored Nation Status" (aka China), they can't be an enemy state, now can they?
What about his oath to uphold the constitution?
The constitution defines treason. Selling government secrets does not inherently fit that definition; only specific cases do. No wonder Americans think Their government has abandoned that document.
Did I miss something? I haven't read anything that said he is making money off of this.
I hope the NSA never returns to a pre-leaks state. I hope they are destroyed and the people involved are shot for crimes against humanity.
They didn't stop 9/11.
They didn't stop the shoe bomber.
We don't need them and the whole mess is a waste of money.
This guy is probably creaming his jeans just thinking of all the new war spending that can be accomplished by tarring and feathering his new favorite scapegoat Snowden (remember, even if he's retired, he's connected to all the defense contractors and defense "community" where his gravy train is tied to.
Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
Snowden, a single individual, with technical skills has gained access to huge amounts of sensitive data and used them for his own purposes (as just they may be) and not only did he achieve that, but actually managed to do it undetected AND not get caught. ...
Now, you have NSA, an agency full of similarly trained individuals
If you want to call NSA something, try incompetent, not weak.
Lol, anonymous coward...
When was the last time any of you sorely hurt people had an NSA agent knock on your door? Never?
Interesting. Such mass abuse.
For that statement to be true, then the NSA would have had infinite power before Snowden blew the whistle on them. No government or agency of a government should ever have unlimited power in the first place.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Surely, the bully who beat you up in elementary school wasn't the ONLY kid bullying other kids. Therefore it's okay that he did it.
Is that REALLY THE !@#$% LOGIC YOU'RE USING?
The treasonous ones are the ones who are shredding your Constitution.
Its Hayden who is treasonous. Doesn't he understand that the American Revolution was caused by Writs of Assistance? Hayden, Alexander and Clapper should be tried for treason, and punished accordingly..
You forgot "treason". That's the other word for acts against the Constitution.
It really isn't. That document itself defines the word.
However, these bozos are violating their oath of office, which includes swearing to uphold said Constitution and defend it against enemies both external and internal. Looks like Snowden was one of the few people actually doing his job.
If the NSA takes a century to recover their 'abilities', it will be too soon.
"Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice." Barry Goldwater, Republican, 1964 prez contender.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_and_Ethel_Rosenberg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard ???
Europe is about as rural as the northeastern states in the USA. There are farms and towns dotting the countryside. Never are you more than maybe 15 miles (25 km) from someplace populated.
You've never been to Finland, have you?
Hint: Europe != Germany, France, or the UK.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
They were over-reaching and taking too much power. They proved that they were corrupt and were not doing much other than infringing on American (and our Allies)'s rights.
They need to be pruned back and learn that we do no live in a fascist state.
Really, some of those leaders who lied under oath should be facing prison time.
No! It's a *SIG*. Keep the Special Interest Groups away! (Con joke!)
"Yes, we are weak now... oh no, everyone knows all of our secrets... damn... yes, decades before we are powerful again, uh huh, yep...." The NSA man is saying that they are weak, I'd be wondering at their intentions with that statement.
via cooperating with the Chinese and Russians is to give them cover when evidence turns up that Chinese and/or Russians have all of the info that Snowdon might have.
They rewrote the Constitution in secret, indistinguishable in effect from a military coup.
Hang them all.
You have the matrix of weights for each citizen, business, NGO, ... for every possible action of our Federal gov that can be used to calculate "national interest" under all futures? You know, my interest in keeping Germany allied with the US, my interest in avoiding the same of stupid NSA bugging Angela Merkel, my interest in Sierra Leone's trade in cocoa, ... Kept up to date as everything changes around us?
Without that, I don't beleive in "national interest", except as a propaganda term.
Not nearly weak enough...
Please don't underestimate the power of gradual propaganda. Let's say you want to damage Snowden's reputation. You won't begin by saying that he's a paranoid schizophrenic who's taking drugs 24/7 and has a Swiss bank account funded by North Korea and Cuba or membership in some fringe anarchist or survivalist group. No you'd begin by enumerating a list of his quirks, preferably stuff that can't be verified independently, trivial things like being in an unstable relationship with his partner, "frequent" bouts of insomnia, or maybe just being a practicing non-believer who likes to listen to Richard Dawkins speeches in his sleep. The first step would thus be to paint him as a bit right or left of the norm. Once that's established, that our supposed patriot isn't that all-American boy next door, you can proceed to tar him with more serious allegations, say, that because of his emotional problems he acquired a drug habit that he could fund by selling out to foreign states or that maybe he was being blackmailed by foreign agents who have threatened to expose one of his own personal secrets.
Hayden said the NSA is "infinitely" weaker as a result of Snowden's leaks.
Bullshit.
Your group is still alive and still doing its highly unconstitutional antics. I'd call that anything but "infinitely weaker".
Just because you can does not mean that you should. The US intelligence community oft gets confused on this.
"You say that like it's a bad thing."
There's no time like the present. Well, the past used to be.
As the biggest employer of mathematicians, the NSA should be aware of the tremendous mathematical meaning of "infinite". Besides, there is nothing infinite at all in the known universe... So, that's just words....
q.e.d
Good if it were true, but this is probably NSA misinformation. I am stunned and appalled that an important organization such as the NSA could have been run by such a square-headed idiot. Obviously the military mind at work. It is high time that the NSA were put under civilian control and directed by respected and intelligent people of substance trained in the law. Intelligence matters are far too important to be left in the hands of the so-called "intelligence community".
And since they are STILL doing the things they have been doing with no indication that they have stopped or slowed down in any way, they must STILL be infinitely powewrful.
Infinity minus infinity is indeterminate. They don't have a clue what they are and are desperately running around to find some value to present.
The government created the internet and before trashing it Al Gore gave it away to everyone for free. Since then the government has it's own super fast high speed network using the most latest technology keeping ahead of other governments. The companies that sell this technology sell and push all the slow new improved high speed b.s network for the private sector cause the government will pay high premium prices. The plan is to use up all the old technology because if you jump to the latest tech you leave behind a bunch of obsolete tech that could of made a profit. Due to all the NSA spying the government is not going to give away their special eye in the sky that easy because it protects the interests of really nice, good evil people who are fear mongoling but powerful in wealth. A hacker attack similar to 911 could happen and that will force the government to step in. And for a price of your Freedom you will get the privileged to use their "safe" high speed networks. Collapsing the internet and rebuilding a national network of big brother. The same attackers are going to be the government either undercover or group of poor fools to be instigated and later caught. If world economies can be manipulated, open you mind...
Is it kind of like "Darth Vader" saying his forces have been weakened, and are withdrawing - i.e. watch out!!!
The NSA did it to themselves. Blaming Edward Snowden demonstrates their unwillingness to learn from their mistakes.
On the one hand I commend him for exposing the extent to which American's communications are being monitored outside of what I consider to be the bounds of the constitution (no unreasonable search, etc). On the other hand, information about what the US is doing to other countries is a very delicate matter. True, we like to think of ourselves as the good guys who don't spy on our allies but, the reality might be that all countries are doing it. Certainly the Russians and the Chinese are.
My hope is that we will have some clarity and limitations on US spying respecting our constitution. Let's not forget that most of the people working at the NSA believe that they are doing the right thing to protect our country, but let's also not forget that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely,
I'd feel better about Hayden's opinion if I didn't get this visual of Hayden saying "This is the intelligence we have." and then nodding compliantly as Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld & PNAC, LLP said "Well, this is what we'll say we have - and this is what you'll say it means." And Voila! - we're in Iraq with too few, too under-armored, for too little justification...and consequently taking too many casualties for too long at too great of an expense in both dollars and world opinion.
There are many - to include me - who despise Snowden for turncoating...but the reality is when you must watch the very top of the food chain betraying the nation for purely selfish reasons - just to hurt "labor" a.k.a. the American people and further enrich the top of the energy and financial food chains - you don't have to be an analyst to project that others further down the food chain will follow that leadership example.
That is what leaders are for: To set the example. Sell-outs shouldn't bitch about other sell-outs.
Orwell: "In a Time of Universal Deceit, telling the Truth is a Revolutionary Act"
It is simply too dangerous to the democracy to have a quasi military branch of government accountable only to the President.
(posting as AC because security filters here disallow login)
The NSA, CIA, et al are not accountable to the President. Oh sure, on paper they are. But Obama just plays golf with Tiger, has lunch with sycophants, goes on vacations, raises funds, and does what his advisers (some official Cabinet members, some not) tell him to do. I saw live interviews with Obama back when he was appointed to the senate. His natural manner of speech is completely different than what you hear now. He now says whatever the teleprompter tells him to say. And he has Daddy issues.
But don't think I am an Obama-hating bigot. I hate everyone equally. W (speaking of Daddy issues) did whatever Rumsfeld wanted him to do. Rumsfeld wanted a war on two fronts to test how well the military could handle it. Other people's money and lives meant nothing to him. I met W. I believe that he was sincere and that he did what he thought was best for the USA. I also believe that his worldview differs from mine, that what he thinks is good for America is not what I think. But in particular, W believed Rumsfeld and a few other confidants. He read the scripts just like Obama does, but he don't read perty, so he would make stuff up, too. That's why he sounded both unintelligent and genuine.
Clinton was in the House for the 24-7-365 party. He would ask a dozen friends for advise then take the last one, whichever it happened to be.
The much vaunted leader Reagan would sleep through Cabinet meetings because they flat out ignored him.
No, the POTUS is only the nominal head of state. There are several factions in the cartel vying for power and our votes only give a slight nudge if any. Those movers and shakers within the cartel are not accountable to the people in any way.