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Microsoft's Attempt To Convert Users From Windows XP Backfires
MojoKid writes "Microsoft has been loudly and insistently banging a drum: All support and service for Windows XP and Office 2003 shuts down on April 8. In early February, faced with a slight uptick in users on the decrepit operating system the month before, Microsoft hit on an idea: Why not recruit tech-savvy friends and family to tell old holdouts to get off XP? The response ... was a torrent of abuse from Windows 8 users who aren't exactly thrilled with the operating system. Microsoft has come under serious fire for some significant missteps in this process, including a total lack of actual upgrade options. What Microsoft calls an upgrade involves completely wiping the PC and reinstalling a fresh OS copy on it — or ideally, buying a new device. Microsoft has misjudged how strong its relationship is with consumers and failed to acknowledge its own shortcomings. Not providing an upgrade utility is one example — but so is the general lack of attractive upgrade prices or even the most basic understanding of why users haven't upgraded. Microsoft's right to kill XP is unquestioned, but the company appears to have no insight into why its customers continue to use the OS. "
...to a Mac mini for $599 with the latest OSX.
FUCK YOU!!!
Not to mention the fact that upgrading from any computer old enough to have come with XP to Windows 8 is highly unlikely. You will almost certainly have to buy new hardware along with that expensive software.
SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
People keep using XP because it works just fine.
There's nothing wrong with it. Why would we change?
If it aint broken, why fix it?
Save Windows XP!!
Anyone who I have known who wanted to buy a new computer, I have told them to make sure they get windows 7. Those people have been pretty ok. If Microsoft wasn't trying to kill their good product (Win 7) by pushing everyone to Win 8, they'd be fine.
i'd have to say...isn't it a pretty good assumption that 90% of machines running XP are under-powered (by modern standards) boxes that just won't really be able to handle the transition to the soon-to-be-free 8.1?
running even win7 on a machine with less then 2G is a nightmare...i can't imaging 8.1 being much better.
ms has to know this...besides the obvious (to us slashdotters of course) idea to move them to linuux peppermint or xfce, what does ms expect these user to do?
never bring a twinkie to a food fight.
The summary is truly fantastic. I don't think the article's writer could have put it better himself!
Sure when Microsoft does something new, original or good without it being a case of "we did this too but 18 months after everyone else".
The only time they've been first recently was jumping in bed with the NSA.
Most non-Windows O/S users generally look forward to their upgrades, Windows users suffer from anxiety of losing data, being forced into a new UX paradigm, and a general fear of doing anything "technical". If it's not broken....
For the ultimate Fox News experience you can always switch to beta.
it works, why change it.... I'm still using it...
To DEBIAN, bitches!!
You may want to take a seat, this may be a bit of a shock to you; this is a website about technology. Perhaps surprisingly, the desktop many of us have to support counts as "technology". Therefore, the company behind the OS on these desktops gets attention. More so when they make as many boneheaded moves as MS has over the past several years.
For a while there, MS was doing "OK". Windows 7 was decent ( even though they moved shit around on me and broke some functionality that was useful to admins in xp...but I digress ), security was 1000% better than it used to be. They were really picking up steam, especially after vista.
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
While it's true that /. has a long history of MS-hating, I'm even more disturbed by the fact that Apple still seems all-too-often to get a free pass around here. Apple has, IMHO, *WAY* surpassed MS in the "evil empire" category. MS, even at it's most arrogant and heavy-handed, never tried to construct a walled garden around its OS's and forbid users from loading 3rd-party software that they didn't approve of. Apple has not only done that, but it's become their trademark.
There are loads of people on /. who are still blasting MS for putting a fucking their own web browser in their OS back in the 90's. But when Apple not only puts their own web browser in their OS, *BUT FORBIDS INSTALLING ANY OTHER THIRD-PARTY BROWSER*, everyone just shrugs their shoulders and talks about how great a guy Steve Jobs was.
SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
They should just roll back to Windows 7 Service Pack 1 and start from there. It's bloody good, and all this is a bloody shame. They were just getting good and learning from the UNIX crowd about security and user space. Aero is gorgeous and efficient. And they threw all the best bits I got excited about in the bin - and no I didn't get excited about Vista - 7 runs better on anything that runs Vista.
I've posted before about this calamity that is removing Windows 7 from the shelves for this 8 nonsense.
This tagline was transcoded to result in at least one smirk. If you experience failure to smirk, please consult your Gen
And once she's running Linux, grandma will stop calling with all those support questions.
But that doesn't address one of the huge issues - software that runs on XP that won't run on Win 7 or 8 (especially 16bit software). In my experience, that's one of the main causes for not upgrading, and is the reason we still have an entire department on XP where I work.
Tired of all the hit pieces on Microsoft.
You must be new here. [/sarcasm]
MS is a public firm, so if XP is losing money, and share holder value is not being honored, then yes MS has every reason to kill it.
But if customers are still finding enough value to pay MS to support it, then MS is just making arbitrary decisions that are hurt long term value. If business customers are not going to be able to trust MS to support core technology that is good enough, they will go somewhere else. Business customers can't be expected to change their business models just because MS want to sell a new toy.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
Get rid of metro
Get rid of apps that take up the entire screen. Don't even tell me I could split the window in half, it pisses me off
Fix the start button so I can see my programs again
Restore popular programs that were removed, like video player.
i haven't been to slashdot in many years. i lol'd when i just opened it up and the first story is about big bad microsoft
m$st
microserfs
meecroshits
lol lol lol top kek keep fighting the good fight dudes
This article is bogus and even /. MS bashing unworthy. A proper upgrade is a OS reinstall, not a wizard that performs some half-ass "lets copy files and hope it works". Windows XP was never intended to boast a upgrade system like this. Applications can do anything on the whole computer and there is nothing to properly wall these in, except for using a sandboxed OS like Android or iOS. But these are, ofcourse, not as productive.
Quit the whining, just buy the new hardware and accept that the world doesnt stop spinning because you got stuck in 1994.
Hivemind harvest in progress..
"Microsoft has misjudged how strong its relationship is with consumers and failed to acknowledge its own shortcomings." This sounds about par for the course for Microsoft. Remember that other thing they did? [Name anything Microsoft has done.] Yeah, that one. It sounds like that, too.
Most People don't want to relearn anything. They know how to do this or do that and its different the second you move up to the next version after windows xp and office 2003. Microsoft has to accept its customer base doesn't want to have to learn how to drive a new operating system or application every few years.
If not, try it now and if it works you've solved the problem with no real UI change.
ElementaryOS runs surprisingly well on older machines. That's pretty much what I'm doing with all my dinosaurs.
To be fair, that's exactly what they are doing with their Windows RT tablets. The only way to load software on is with the Windows Store, and the only browser available is IE. Although I guess one could make a different browser available through the app store.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
he company appears to have no insight into why its customers continue to use the OS.
When something works, why change? And don't give me the crap about security and this and that. Cars from the 60s don't have anywhere near the safety features modern cars do yet have no problem operating safely.
For the average person who does some web surfing and checks their email, there is no legitimate reason to upgrade ESPECIALLY when you take into consideration the costs involved.
This will be one of the few times you'll hear this, but Microsoft did too good a job creating XP.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
But when Apple not only puts their own web browser in their OS, *BUT FORBIDS INSTALLING ANY OTHER THIRD-PARTY BROWSER*, everyone just shrugs their shoulders and talks about how great a guy Steve Jobs was.
Huh? I've never had a problem installing other browsers on a mac. Ran Netscape for ages, back in the day, switched to Firefox, played around with Opera and Chrome-- even ran IE a couple of times (had to check how some sites displayed with IE)-- no problem.
WinXP: It's good enough.
My retired parents use their computer for the exact same things today as when they bought it ages ago. They surf the web, do email, occasionally skype and keep track of things in excel, word and a bit of time on FB. It sits in their home office and each morning one of them turns it on uses it and then at night when the last one is done using it, (s)he powers it off for the night. They've got some ext HD that backs up their computer every day in case something happens.
It works. Sure they have kindles to read books, but there's no need to fork over $500+ for a new system and then the hassle of migrating all of their apps/data/settings to a new platform.
What else do they have that "just works"? A toaster oven, a microwave and other appliances. They see the computer as an appliance, it works, it has an interface and a set of expected behaviors. Nice and simple.
You may be pleasantly surprised.
That doesn't sell. People don't see anything different, so they won't buy it.
Security is not a selling point. People simply don't give a fuck.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Windows 8 downfall is touch / dual UI stapeled on top of each other.
What they to do is build in ModernMix to the OS and have a real start menu as well.
In enterprise some times it can be iffy to use 3rd party hacks like that and Modern Mix is a little buggy as well.
Also the touch UI is too on app / limited multitasking based that does not work on big screens / multi screen setups and we don't need hot corners / charms bar.
Also most enterprise work flows are not good for the windows 8 UI.
This summarizes it pretty well:
http://venturebeat.com/2013/03/10/mozilla-firefox-ios/
SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
How easy is it to upgrade from OS X 10.1 (Puma) to OS X 10.8 (Mountain Lion)?
Puma came out a month before XP and Mountain Lion came out three months before Windows 8.
How easy is it to upgrade from Debian 3 (Woody) to Debian 7 (Wheezy)?
How easy is it to upgrade from Fedora... no, wait, Fedora 1 didn't come out until two years after XP. So let's try Red Hat Linux 7.2 (Enigma) to Fedora 18 (Spherical Cow)?
People forget that Windows XP is really goddamn old.
Especially given that Ubuntu 4.10 came out three years after XP, so it's an even bigger leap with Windows.
And why should I upgrade my machine just to run an OS that slows it down to what I already have?
Seriously, why do OSs have to grow enough to nix the advances in hardware, both in size and speed?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Your simile is more fitting than you think. If you don't want to see Obama taking flak, don't watch fox news. If you don't want to see microsoft's actions being criticized, don't go on slashdot. Or don't click on the link. Judging by your comment history, you ONLY seem to defend MS and knock google or apple. I don't think you're shilling, I just think if you're so pro-MS you might be happier elsewhere.
I have long been a PC user, not because I like Windows, but because it was cheap, and Windows was functional enough for my needs (really prefer the fine grained control I get with Linux, but Linux and Laptops have never really played nice.
but I recently bought a new laptop for my wife, which sadly came with Win8. The laptop itself is a wonderful, solidly build Lenovo ultrabook.
Windows 8 makes it damn near unusable. the touchscreen oriented tile interface, the singletasking everything full screen all the time Metro interface all of it is garbage. might be good for a phone or tablet, but positively counterproductive on a laptop or desktop. I had to spend a fair amount of money and time finding and installing third party software to at least partially restore Win7 levels of usefulness
if the next release of windows doesn't restore Win 7 levels of usability, we will bite the bullet and spend the money for Macs.
The difference between Theory and Practice is greater in Practice than in Theory.
For the average user XP is generally good enough. They want a browser, maybe an older copy of Word, and the ability to print. That is about it. So if you have something that works and is good enough then why would anyone change. I know people will apples who have asked me which version of Windows they are running and people with Windows who ask me to "install apple". So explaining to these people the nuanced differences between XP, Vista, 7, 8, or 8.1 (or even Mac OS X) is nearly impossible.
.docx files sent to them) so what killer feature does a newer OS have? Generally the only killer feature is that older applications are starting to not work with XP and thus it is a new meaning to killer feature but that is just abusive to the consumer not a positive reason. I can sort of see why MS tried Metro in that they were trying to make something new. The reality is that the new operating systems don't do anything new. They have these huge CPUs and massive GPUs and all they do is slightly slicker movements of the same old interfaces. How about some AI. How about an AI word processor that you give it 5 samples plus your new content and it coughs together a damn good document that might need one quick sanity check? That would set sales records.
Also these people typically will budget 100% of the technology budget to getting a better mobile device. So they aren't upgrading their hardware which is often a 6 year old laptop with a battery good for 5 minutes and they are happy with it.
I recently upgraded my Mac OS X to Mavericks only because I needed the latest copy of XCode and it wouldn't run on my two version behind OS and I am a programmer. I won't argue that Mavericks isn't better than its predecessors but if a fairly hard core user such as myself can't be bothered to upgrade unless forced how on earth can you convince Granny?
A great example of just how odd people's priorities can be would be with my mother. I switched her from an Old Ubuntu to the latest and her number one gripe was that her icons moved a bit; she didn't not appreciate any of the many benefits of the far newer OS such as stability or speed. Apple does have the upgrade system set up to be fairly painless with a low chance of changing things like the positioning of icons so that shows some awareness of the consumer.
But where I am leading with all this is that if MS wants people to upgrade they need to make a more compelling case. Most people would be happy with Word 97 and Windows XP (except when they got
I remember back in the early 90s when most C++ programmers used Borland. Everyone wanted to get into Windows programming but even Hello World was a pain in the ass. Borland had this stupid OWL system. Then a new thing Visual Studio 1.0 came out with a few templates and then this MFC thing that made you look like a programming superstar. Within a year I didn't know a single person still using Borland C++. That was a compelling feature. The same with Word Perfect. Word was an interesting product but it wasn't until you really needed Wysiwyg for laser printers(and other new not dotmatrix printers) that everyone made the leap into Windows and Word. Almost overnight Word Perfect for DOS just wasn't the cool thing.
So where I made the switch to Mac was because it was BSD based and very similar to the linux environment where I deploy my applications. Plus for iOS app development there is no other choice. Those are compelling reasons. What positive compelling reason does anyone have to switch from XP that doesn't require a technically nuanced discussion?
Except that a lot of their software will stop working and probably their printers, etc.
No problem at all with doing that really.
No sig today...
You apparently dont use a Mac.
And you apparently have never tried installing Firefox on iOS.
SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
Microsoft is completely correct that if they are on the hook for stability and security of Microsoft products then they need to kill off software they can no longer sustain or maintain. Microsoft should be free and clear to "end of life" both Windows XP and Office 2003. What the problem is that their "replacement" for the products seem dubious.
We know what the problems are with Windows 8 where you can find the issues all over the Internet with simple searches. Since /. loves the car analogy: Windows 8 is a replace for Windows XP like scooter is a replacement for a 2001 sedan. Or more exactly, it is like trading in your quirky but workable 2001 sedan for a new 2014 model but find the car manufacturer thought scooters were the superior are the future so they completely rearranged the inside around one big scooter seat, a Y steering stick instead of a wheel, and threw out a bunch of nice features normally found in cars under the guise "it was too complex for people". And after all of that the dealer perks up and says, "But don't believe the hate....the Bluetooth integration works great!" Lots of things work really well in Windows 8 but the major interface features do not.
As for Office 2003, many places have already "dealt with it" where they are sticking with it or moved onto simple alternatives. If one is still using Office 2003 then they didn't need the "cutting edge features" of modern Office where Google Docs is easily more than enough for them. Convince this "bottom segment" of the market to upgrade is a lost cause for Microsoft. These customers feel like they don't need the new features and complexity and not at the price they are asking.
Microsoft has misjudged how strong its relationship is with consumers and failed to acknowledge its own shortcomings.
You owe me a new keyboard.
Microsoft has never given the least bit of thought to its (individual) customers or their needs. To say that there has ever been a "relationship" is laughable. For the past few years, Microsoft's effort has been to force upgrades to maintain a revenue stream. Useless features and frills (Metro, ribbon, addition of gratuitous whitespace) have been added to products, because the company is either unable or unwilling to make substantial improvements in quality or performance, choosing instead to force upgrades with incompatible features and formats. Each release is less well thought out than the previous one, and I have yet to meet someone who wants a Microsoft tablet. (I will grant that Microsoft has paid some attention to the corporate customers, but that's not who we're talking about here)
OK, maybe the above is a bit harsh, but the fact remains that Microsoft seems to have lost the trail (if it was ever on it). When I think about companies in touch with individual customers and their wants, Apple comes to mind, not Microsoft. Love 'em or hate 'em, the folks in Cupertino don't seem to have any problem shifting their rounded-corner wares... People don't want to upgrade from XP, because it does what they need it to do, and it works for them. They don't want (or need) to learn a completely new UI. They'd probably appreciate a more secure OS, but buying an entirely new computer to get it (and shifting all their applications and data over) seems like too much work.
*I RUN FIREFOX ON MY MAC*
Try running it on you iPad.
SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
We're talking about desktop OS, not mobile.
The walled garden has been a huge success for Apple on the iPhone and iPad. Do you honestly think they're not going to eventually bring it to their Mac desktops too (if they even keep making desktops)?
SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
Sounds like an opportunity for an XP to Linux Upgrade utility. One that moves the XP programs to Wine or perhaps an XP virtual machine in the process...
Microsoft's right to kill XP is unquestioned
Well, I'll question it. XP, like it or not, is a major part of America's IT infrastructure. Why should one private company have the right to unilaterally declare this kind of planned obsolescence?
If we had sane copyright laws, this wouldn't be an issue – Microsoft would have been required to put the source code in escrow back when XP was first released, and after 5-10 years (i.e. by now) it would automatically become open source. But since we instead have copyright laws bought by Mickey Mouse, there would have to be another way to achieve this. Perhaps one or more governments could use eminent domain to seize XP, then make it open source and fund its maintenance. Not only would that do a great deal of good for the computing public, but it would also light a fire under Microsoft – they would have to compete with free versions of their old OS, and would have an even harder time trying to shove Windows 8 down all our throats.
and apple needs a real desktop even at $900-$1300 base that is not an AIO and has slots at least one X16 for a full size desktop video card and an X4 one.
With room for an DVD / Blueray
at least 2 HDD bays or 1 bay + pci-e SSD.
Desktop RAM
Desktop CPU
Do you honestly think they're not going to eventually bring it to their Mac desktops too (if they even keep making desktops)?
The suggestion was that Apple is already doing this on their desktop OS - which is not true.
Moving the goalposts from present to future doesn't change the fact that you were incorrect in your original supposition; be a man (or woman) and either admit your mistake, or at least stop prattling on about it - doubling down on being wrong isn't going to win you any friends (although it may influence some people).
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Snow Leopard to Mavericks is the equivalent of upgrading Windows 7 to Windows 8, there's only a few years difference. Same with Ubunto 10.04 to 13.10. Upgrading XP to Windows 8 is much more akin to upgrading Debian 3 to Ubuntu 13.10, as there was no Ubuntu when XP came out, nor would there be for a few years.
Windows 7 was just a service pack for Vista. The renaming was a PR move to move away from the stigma.
Give them enough time and they'll iron out all of the flaws. Of course the Metro interface was inherently flawed from the beginning, but I think they've learned their lesson and supposedly Windows 8.2 which may be named Windows 9 is their solution to this whole mess.
But the GP does have a point, I see people still complaining about features of Windows 8 that were fixed in 8.1.
So 'Desktop Linux' is just not cutting it for me yet. Almost, but not quite. (Seriously, get USB keyboards working with yer full disk encryption, Debian.)
That said, I'm not going to Windows 8 or even 8.1. Evar. In the rare event that I need to run something that only runs on Win 8, I've got a company supplied Virtual box VM image with a legit corporate licensed copy. (I've booted up to run the latest version of MS Dev Studio less times than I can count on one hand.)
In the slightly more common event that I need to run something that ran fine on WinXP, but won't run on Win7, I have a WinXP Virtual Box image. This has saved my older, but perfectly working USB scanner.
In the much more frequent event that I want to run in a Linux desktop environment for, say, development work, working with iptables, or the like, I've got a couple different Mint Linux Virtual Box images.
About the only thing I don't have an image for is a Hackintosh... but I've got a company-supplied Macbook which also has an array of Virtual Box images hanging around.
Mint is about || yay close to being usable as my main desktop OS, but has a few standout problems. I DO use it as my laptop OS.
Win 8 will NEVER be an issue for me.
The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
So you are only talking about iOS and not OS X meaning you've changed the subject as iOS not the same category as Windows XP and Win 8. Okay, l'll bite. One of the main selling points of iOS is that software works as it should and be secure. That's why there is a walled garden. In the same category as iOS was WinMobile where software didn't always work as it should. Web browsers these days are far more complicated than they used to be especially when it comes to scripting. Apple cannot guarantee the security of an alternate web browser with a separate script engine. That's why they have only a superficial shim API to their existing browser. If you don't like it, get an Android phone; however, it was noted that 97% of mobile malware was on the Android platform.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
There's one flaw in that complaint. The last computer sold with XP that would be unbelievably fast would likely be an early core duo or core 2 duo or Phenom x6 AM2 socket with 8GB of RAM and a sub-100MB/s SATA drive and a gTX285. That system overall is pathetic and wouldn't run Windows 7 very well at all not to mention its insanely inefficient energy usage. Back in reality, most have 1-2GB of RAM, a pathetic hard drive, and an even more pathetic chip, usually a single core. So to say "replace your device" as the most recommended step um yeah. The youngest XP device from a normal manufacturer would be 7 years old right now. Time to go.
I bought a Dell XPS710 in 2007, dual core processor running at 2.66GHz, Win XP Pro, 4GB Memory, 768MB NVIDIA GeForce 8800GTX. It ran Win 7 Ultimate quite happily for years and allowed me to play games like Skyrim, Diablo 3 and even Crysis. Memory was the main resource issue. The processor and card doesn't need to be that powerful, so long as you are realistic about the background processes and Aero settings.
POS Ready 2009 *is* Windows XP SP3 with a cheaper license ($99).
If you can get your hands on it, it's supported until 2019. Since end of support is 2019, they should still be providing security updates...
https://www.microsoft.com/wind...
They may be killing XP, but not it's lesser known twin.
Chrome and Opera on iOS are just skins for Apple's own required rendering engine.
SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
I'll go a step further - I prefer Office 2003 to 2010. I've been using the "ribbon" for a few years now, and it still sucks.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Upgrading an ancient version of Ubuntu to current status would be a serial process: you could not do it directly but if you wanted to, you could upgrade through the intermediate releases until you were current: 4.10 to 5.04 to 6.06 (1st LTS) to 8.04 (LTS) to 10.4 (LTS) to 12.04 (latest LTS). The next Long Term Support version is in beta now and will be released as 14.04 next month. I'd skip 13.10: either wait for 14.04 final or install 14.04 beta, which is pretty stable from what I hear.
However the easier way would be to back up /home where all user data should be, install 14.04 over the old version, copy all the non-hidden stuff from the backup into the new /home, then mine the /home/user/ hidden directories for customizations that will still work. Many of those user customizations will carry forward, too. All the old data files will.
The process is much easier than upgrading from any version of Windows to any newer version of Windows. I think Microsoft is still purposefully breaking upgrades. The only ones I have ever done that were mostly seamless was from Win3.0 to Win3.1 to Win3.11. Going from Win3.11 to Win98 was not too bad, either (I skipped the horrible Win95 crap).
Will
He said Mac, not iPad.
What you hear in the ear, preach from the rooftop Matthew 10.27b
GP was referring specifically to iOS, not Mac OS X. On iOS you are restricted to exactly 2 options. You can use Apple's browser, which is OK if that's your preference, but if not then the only other thing to use is a Apple's browser embedded in some other app. The catch is that the embeddable version is artificially much, much worse than the regular one - presumably to create the illusion that non-Apple software is not as good as Apple software.
Android doesn't have this limitation at all. If you don't like Chrome you can run Firefox or whatever instead, and your browser is free to use its own renderer or javascript engine.
I run Windows 7 on my Thinkpad T60 just fine. It's a 1.66GHz Core Duo with 2GB RAM (which isn't even the max). Sure, it's a little slower than my desktop, but it runs at a perfectly acceptable speed for general web browser use. I'm not sure how Windows 8 would run on it, but I don't think it would be unusable (for performance reasons anyway... UI reasons are another story). That said, I keep begging my Thinkpad to die already so I can replace it with something with USB 3.0
[nt]
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
My compaq-hp desktop at home came with Vista and 1 G Ram, so you are so right. (I immediately installed 4 G and it still runs fine)
Now you're tired? After, what, 15-16 years?!
Damn noobs.
Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
Sorry, sparky.. if you don't want to read "hit pieces on Microsoft", you can very easily skip them..
As for me, I'm fed up with the "crack smoking monkeys" from Redmond, and I enjoy reading about
them getting bashed..
THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
Try installing Chrome on iOS. Oh, you can. Could you install Firefox on iOS? It's possible, but the mozilla folk have taken exception to the API restrictions and thus refuse to do the iOS version.
And it's exactly this kind of defense of the walled garden that breaks my heart. Do you even realize that your arguing for a future where the OS manufacturers decide what software you're allowed to load on all your devices and computers? Do you even realize what a change that is from EVERYTHING WE EVER STOOD FOR before the 21st century???
Do you REALLY want Apple, Microsoft, and Google deciding what software you can and can't use in the future? Seriously? Because that's what you're arguing for.
I thought MS was bad back in the 90's. But *NOTHING* that MS ever did scares me as much as Apple's walled garden concept, and the potential future that it portends. And to see someone with a six-digit UID actually defending it on Slashdot scares me even more.
SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
For years (especially under Ballmer), the problem for MS has not been their strategy per se but their execution. Getting people off XP is a good thing; not helping people with it is an execution fail. Of course there are some people that cannot upgrade as their hardware is too old, but acknowledge this. Not recognizing that people dislike the solution (Win 8) is another fail. If they had done this with Win 7, it wouldn't be as big a deal.
We've seen this lack of execution again and again especially in the mobile area. The Zune wasn't a bad idea. It was years late and didn't offer many advantages over the iPod. Buying Danger to get into mobile phone market was a good idea; being 18 months late and releasing a buggy phone that wasn't a smart phone but cost as much as a smart phone was a fail.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
the decrepit operating system
Looks like they're talking about a crippled nuclear plant. Like that poor OS was hit by a mag 9 earthquake and a huge tsunami!
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
Why? I have one or 3 software that are Windows only. I run them on Linux in a WinXP virtual machine. XP because it makes for a much smaller VM and the user interface is just simpler. Why, oh why, should I need to use a more recent version ? I don't even need antivirus on it since I litterally run only ONE program on it and it's certainly NOT IE. If I'm being forced to upgrade, it's not going to go down well which is why I'm looking at other options such as ReactOS, Wine, etc...
Non-Linux Penguins ?
I have XP media, are they going to prevent me from re-installing and turn off the installation process that requires WindowsUpdate to work? Are they going to produce a final "Gold ISO", that is the final form of the OS?
Fuck, I guess this Chrome app on my iPad is just an illusion.
I'm so disappointed.
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
Good luck getting them to stop conflating things then complaining about them.
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
I work with embedded software. Chip designs are often 20 years old. So are the software development tools.
Software designed for Windows 3.1, or even DOS 5.0, will still run under XP. They will not run under Windows 8, or even Windows 7 (64-bit, I have to get my hands on a Windows 7 32-bit disk and see if it works).
Moreover, on chips that old you talk to them via serial (either RS232 or RS485). To do it properly, this MUST be done using a real serial port. USB to serial dongles need not apply. This means old hardware. Which means they do not have the horsepower to run Windows 7 / Windows 8.
I've played with some VM's but there is a problem -- limited access to the actual system hard drive. So I either have 99% of my system in the VM (so all projects area availble), which means I spend all my time in the VM (and am effectively running XP anyway), or multiple small VM's, which limits access to different projects for code sharing...
You can't follow a thread.
But be of good cheer, you're not alone.
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
No one is forcing them to upgrade from Windows XP in the sense it will stop working, they're forcing them to upgrade if they still want support. How much support does Debian 3 or Mac OSX Puma get these days?
If you upgrade to Win8.xx (or even Win7) you might lose support for your older devices like printers, webcams etc. This means having to fork over even MORE $$$. In my experience this is usually a user's next shock after using the interface.
OTOH, people see Win8 UI hate it and not use Win8 despite the better security etc.
I recently installed Windows 7 - because newer games (that I wanted to play, like Bioshock Infinite) require DX10 or 11. I did not install Win8 because I hate the UI and the look of it - if I could have "Windows Classic" theme on Windows 8 (like it is on 7 and 2008), I would have used Windows 8. Yes, I can have Start menu on Win8 (actually I am using ClassicShell on 7 to have the Windows 2000 start menu (with search though)), but I cannot have window edges.
The difference is that apple actually improves their product generally. Also, get your facts straight. The MS Browser included thing was about microsoft's monopoly position being extended from the desktop platform to the internet. If they weren't a monopoly (and apple aren't) they could do what they like.
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
But there's a gotcha.. I upgrade to 8.1 via Windows 8. The first step from Windows XP to 8 ran pretty smoothly, all of my data from the XP installation was moved to a folder called windows.old where it could be recovered from by someone with a basic understanding of PCs. All well and good, but the obvious next step was to upgrade to Windows 8.1.. a bit trickier as you can't do that without installing KB2871389 first (either through Windows Update or manually). The Windows 8.1 download is enormous, 3GB+ but it installs smoothly enough.
The catch? Well, upgrading from Windows XP to Windows 8 creates the windows.old folder with the old data in. Upgrading from Windows 8 to Windows 8.1 DELETES that folder and creates a new one with the old Windows 8 settings.. obliterating your original data from the Windows XP installation.
Well, that wasn't a problem for me as I'd backed up everything onto another drive which I unplugged to be on the safe side. But it wasn't what I was expecting to happen *at all*.. and you can see that a less paranoid customer (or one without a suitable backup disk) could well lose everything if going from XP to 8 to 8.1. And I do notice that there doesn't seem to be a Windows 8.1 Upgrade version available anywhere, so this is the path that a lot of people would take..
Never email donotemail@WeAreSpammers.com
You aren't far from the truth. It is window dressing on teh safari rendering engine. As to why apple do this? Browsers need to be able run executable content like javascript. Apple want to be able to control what code runs on their platform. Hence, no other browser as a vector to run untrusted code.
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
What they DID with their Windows RT tablets you mean. RT is dead.
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
And it's exactly this kind of defense of the walled garden that breaks my heart. Do you even realize that your arguing for a future where the OS manufacturers decide what software you're allowed to load on all your devices and computers? Do you even realize what a change that is from EVERYTHING WE EVER STOOD FOR before the 21st century???
And do you realize that you are arguing for a future where you decide what is in the best interest of everyone? You want to install your own software from anywhere? Buy an Android phone. No one is stopping you. You are the only one here advocating against freedom.
The walled garden exists and has been accepted because a major problem with the alternative. Generally, consumers are not tech-savvy; they don't want to hack with their OS. They want it to work. Apple offers that to them.
Do you REALLY want Apple, Microsoft, and Google deciding what software you can and can't use in the future? Seriously? Because that's what you're arguing for.
You do realize that Android is from Google right? And you can choose not to use anything from them. You want a phone completely free of them; start a company and start manufacturing. You don't have millions in capital? Well, that's not on any of them is it?
I thought MS was bad back in the 90's. But *NOTHING* that MS ever did scares me as much as Apple's walled garden concept, and the potential future that it portends. And to see someone with a six-digit UID actually defending it on Slashdot scares me even more.
Then don't use any Apple products for Chrissakes sake. I don't own a tablet because I don't want one. I don't own a Windows PC machine because I chose not to own one. I own a very old Mac because it is the only machine that I can run Windows, OS X, Linux, and BSD all on the same machine.
The main difference between MS in the 90s and Apple today is not stopping me from using other platforms. If you use their platform there are limitations (as there are with any platform. Apple didn't go out of their way to harm their partners and competitors like MS. See Java. See Netscape.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
I know it's shooting fish in a barrel... with a shotgun... and they're already dead... but:
Look to OS X on how updates are done right. Why does MS always steal the somewhat-nice parts from Apple and never the really cool ones?
Upgrade OS on the same machine: Insert disc or download image. Click installer. Wait. Reboot. Done. All your data and configuration is intact, down to the desktop background and even the applications you had running will be open again after the reboot.
Move to a new machine: Get new computer. Turn on. It asks if you want to copy your stuff over from an old machine, so say yes. Connect (WLAN, cable, whatever). Wait. Done. New machine looks exactly like the old one, including all your applications, data and configuration.
So, it is technologically possible. Makes you wonder why one of the biggest IT companies on the planet is incapable of doing it this way.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
But we have this really new thing called Windows and it has Windows Search! I like grep But we have a new Software store where you can give us more MOney for things you don't need or want! I like grep But we're deprecating grep, its out of date and insecure! I like grep Too bad.. you can't have grep, we are going to come into your home and remove it from your computer! Over my dead body
So, for the security?
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
The sensible thing to do would be to migrate to a Linux distro with good business support, and install WinXP on VMs within that Linux. That's as secure and future proof as you can get.
Will
And why should I upgrade my machine just to run an OS that slows it down to what I already have?
Exactly, my 5 Y/O XP machine with an SSD/recent GPU feels faster than _ANY_ win7 machine I have ever used.
And, I own a fair number of machines. But the two "desktops" that get the most use are the win XP machine connected to the large monitors/scanner/etc in the "computer" room at home and the win2k3-64 machine I use for work. Both of those machines are running SSD's recent GPUs and processors that are just a few years old. The OS's have been tweaked up to boot/respond fast (menushow delay and stuff like that).
I have a win7 machine that is probably the most powerful machine I own (recent processor/SSD/etc).. And a win8.1/openSUSE dual boot laptop. But I find win7 to be annoying and slow even after tweaking the UI for lower latency. So the machine sits in the garage mostly unused. Plus, a crapload of my old ass software/hardware, with my old ass data won't work natively on it. The laptop spends most of its useful time in opensuse because even with classic shell win8.1 is garbage.
Then I spend most of my surfing/netflix/gaming time using a touchpad/ipad/kindle.
So, basically XP works great, and saves me the trouble of fighting with win 7 to get all my hardware/apps working. Or forcing me to buy a new scanner/etc because while the scanner works fine for the dozen or so things I scan a year, it doesn't have win7 drivers. Nor do the assortment of 32-bit applications I have with 16-bit installshield. Many of these things (JTAG programmers, GPIB interface for logic analyzer/etc) are not cheaply replaced.
So, a windows 7/8 upgrade besides having an interface I find annoying to do the removal of classic mode in 7, will probably cost me >$5k in hardware/software upgrades plus another 8-20 hours of my free time to get all those applications/etc working on the new machine.
Many of which are _NOT_ improvements (see office 2003 vs pretty much any recent office).
"Look SteveB, we need more income, so we have to release Win8."
Because that doesn't leverage their desktop monopoly in the tablet market. Windows 8 is not about the desktop customer, or anything to do with the customer, really. It is purely about microsoft having a way to attempt to leverage their desktop OS monopoly in tablets. I think they misjudged how much people want Windows on a tablet.
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
The walled garden is the best thing to ever happen to consumer operating systems. It protects those who can't protect themselves. On the other hand, myself and anyone who has $100 and can manage Xcode can install anything they want on an iOS device. I think it's a great solution. you can complain about the $100 but to say that CAN'T run whatever you want is just wrong.
Inertia and Legacy. See how much it sucks to be on the receiving end, MS?
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
No it's not dead, just renamed. "Surface RT" tablets became "Surface 2" tablets. They offer it at places like Best Buy. There are fewer models these days as Surface RT didn't sell very well so companies are wary to make many of them.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Most users of XP are home users at this point.
85% of corps have left it or in the final stages of killing it. Virtualization is what many companies who can't upgrade their software use. Windows Server 2003 instance inside Citrix can be remotely viewed in a browser. Embedded equipment well just unplug the LAN cable or have the Cisco admin DMZ it to a subnet with no outside internet access ... done.
http://saveie6.com/
Yea' but grandma's and 12 year olds who will never touch Excel or Access, and do almost nothing with word told the focus group that they liked the ribbon..
What? You think MS cares what actual professionals who use their products on a daily basis think??
No, it's based off 2000.
"Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
16 bit software is only a problem if you are running the 64bit versions of Windows.
(Edirol DA2496) Am planning to get a removable HDD bay and hot-swap between XP (music) and Win 7 (games/everything else) - but can't even afford that and another HDD atm. :(
'Stupidity is an often fatal disease' - R. A. Heinlein
Try running it on your toaster.
This just shows that replacing Ballmer doesn't solve the fundamental cultural problems at Microsoft. This is classic M$ behavior, as in "We're going to tell you what to do and why you should do it, even it works against your self interest and costs you a lot of time and money."
They did it by not providing an automated migration from VB6 to VB.net
They did it by not providing and automated migration from Winforms to ASP or WPF.
They're doing it now by not providing and automated migration from Silverlight to WPF.
They did it by not providing a useful transition from the Windows 7 interface to Windows 8.
They did it by replacing VBScript and Jscript with Powershell instead of providing VBScript.net or Jscript.net while maintaining backward compatibility with old code, or providing and automatic migration.
Seeing a pattern here? Microsoft's answer is always the same one: "Fuck you, learn a brand new language (or OS), recode, and No, we don't care how much it costs you or your clients or if it puts you out of business."
I'm pretty sure that if something like the Zorin distro was a little better, a more MS-like, and ran most MS software under Wine out of the box, that most people would install it and never look back.
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
And almost every new computer ships with x64 Windows now... it's damned hard to find one that's not, much less one with the specs you want.
XP is over 12 years old, that's one hell of a *free* long term support package.
"Free"? Have you looked at Microsoft's balance sheet recently? Microsoft has $83 Billion in cash and equivalents and the number is rising by about $1 Billion per month. We've paid them plenty. Now they have every right to terminate support if they want to but let's not pretend that Microsoft is about to go broke if they continued to support XP. This is about maximizing profit for Microsoft and has virtually nothing to do with the relatively modest costs involved in continuing to patch XP.
Do you replace a perfectly working toaster, microwave, TV, car, etc. just because it's old? Most people don't - the new thing has to be enough of an improvement to justify the expense. Why would you expect them to replace a PC that lets them browse the 'net and check their email just fine? Especially with something that may well not run their favorite old software? Where's the upgrade for these people? I'm certainly not seeing anything worth them paying a month's rent for.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
I'm starting to think window 8, 8.1, and 9 should be relabled as Metro 1, 2, and 3. IIRC, the original windows didn't really take off until version 3. I can't really think of a Microsoft OS that didn't take a few iterations to get right.
"Pulling together is the aim of despotism and tyranny! Free men pull in all sorts of directions" -- Havelock Vetinari
So in other words, Apple doesn't forbid third-party browsers, they just require third-party browsers to follow particular guidelines, and one particular third-party has chosen not to follow the rules.
I don't see the big deal here.
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
But that doesn't address one of the huge issues - software that runs on XP that won't run on Win 7 or 8 (especially 16bit software). In my experience, that's one of the main causes for not upgrading, and is the reason we still have an entire department on XP where I work.
Mr president that's not entirely accurate.
Windows 7 runs 16-bit apps just fine having done it in my case all worked fine. The catch is this capability only works on 32-bit systems. If you have Windows 7 64-bit then 16-bit apps will not run.
I'll consider it alive when Microsoft don't have another 900 million worth of leftover stock to sell. WIndows 8 is only alive because people have no choice. In the Surface RT/2 market there are competitors that do a much better job. Given that you can't join it to a domain and can't run legacy apps, there is approximately ZERO reason to purchase a non-pro Surface.
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
I upgraded my father's laptop to Linux for much the same reason. He actually wants to create documents occasionally, so a tablet is unsuitable.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Dear microsoft. We use XP because it works, and it has a better, more consistent interface than your latest abortion of an operating system. If you want us to give you money to switch, give us something reasonable to switch to. Just nagging us isn't working.
Let me repeat that so you get it: You are suggesting that we pay money for a new OS, in many cases also paying money for new hardware, for an environment that doesn't work as well as what we have now. What are you smoking?
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
You should be, you're running the same crap browser with a chrome skin on it, people using android actually get the chrome browser. Is it the fact you've been lied to for so long or that Apple don't trust you to install the browser you want that disappoints you most??
My wife's IBM a31 ThinkPad (desktop replacement) ran Windows XP great. MAX RAM and PATA SSD allows it to move pretty quickly. No video driver for Vista, so could not upgrade to Vista. Installed Windows 7 Pro 90-day eval, but we are still stuck with no video driver. Ubuntu might be a good choice if I can get the old lady switched over. Computer was preinstalled with Win2k and upgrade to XP in 2004 was smooth. If video drivers were available, the old and trusty machine would not be running XP. Why should perfectly good hardware be added to the ewaste stockpile when it is perfectly good? New hardware makes no sense if it does not offer much. System idle at 99% is not a reason to upgrade. IMHO, replacing old hardware for new hardware is too much like Apple.
No it wasn't. Read it again and try not to add anything you imagine up in the process. He said "But when Apple not only puts their own web browser in their OS, *BUT FORBIDS INSTALLING ANY OTHER THIRD-PARTY BROWSER*". The words desktop, PC or anything else that could be taken to mean that was never mentioned.
Now he was comparing it to people bitching at Microsoft about something they did on a PC OS but that doesn't make what you're claiming remotely true. The guy was obviously referring to Apples iOS and never said anything to imply otherwise.
This thread has lots of speculation about the people running xp but none hit the mark in my case. Two of three machines in current use here run XP, and there is a fourth machine running Windows 98. Generally, the operating system choice comes down to software.
One XP machine is used for 2 hours of accounting work (quickbooks) a month. It also keeps an operating instance of various software that was used for various projects in the past. The unit is too old (12 year old P4 box) to upgrade to Windows 7/8 and upgrading to a different operating system would break lots of installed software. Most of the software on this machine could be reinstalled but I would have to find the disks (yes disks in some cases), reinstall and remember any custom configurations. A lot of work for what might otherwise be a 30 minute job. Much easier to keep an operating instance for the odd occasion ( once every 3-4 years) requiring Microsoft Fortran. This machines XP will be updated to the last day and then disconnected from the web. The Windows 98 machine has a similar reason from existing.
The other XP machine will be upgraded to windows 7 soon. This is later than planned but the pieces are in place and the license came with the machine. It was my main machine until I purchased a new laptop with Windows 7 and transitioned to it. Now it's just a backup and when there is a break it will be upgraded. It will not be online or actively used until it is upgraded.
So that is the story of 2 instances. Hard to put us all in the same box.
and apple needs a real desktop even at $900-$1300 base that is not an AIO and has slots at least one X16 for a full size desktop video card and an X4 one.
Ok, I'll bite. Why does Apple "need" this? The vast majority people never touch the internals of their machines after they buy them so I'm curious what your financial argument for Apple "needing" to do this is. You need to prove that the marginal revenue from making such a machine would exceed the marginal cost. Good luck!
What you are actually saying is that YOU want a machine like that. Given the number of machines Apple sells and the fact that laptops and tablets far outsell desktop machines I think you'll find that not too many people actually agree with you. The market for people who actually swap components in their desktop machines is the very definition of a niche market. Most people just buy a new computer when the only one no longer suits their needs. Hell I've built machines from scratch myself before but I can't really think of a reason why I would need what you are describing nor can I think of anyone I know who needs what you are describing.
It's a perfectly valid reason to not buy a car, but it's an utterly stupid reason to say that the car, as a whole, is horrible - which is what people are saying about Windows 8 when most of the complaints are just about the UI.
The UI? You mean the only part of the OS that you actually see and interact with? Gee, wonder why people would be upset if they didn't like that part.
A lot of the complaints are simply "it doesn't work exactly the same as it did before" variety which isn't the same thing as being objectively worse. People don't like change even when the change is for the better. In this case the changes Microsoft have made are not clearly objectively better AND the interface is different. Unsurprisingly a lot of people don't like it.
You mean the WebKit? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W... "WebKit is available under a BSD-form license [10] with the exception of the WebCore and JavaScriptCore components, which are available under the GNU Lesser General Public License." Apple is evil for requiring everyone to use a non-proprietary rendering engine in their iOS browsers (that they also use in their non-iOS browsers). Shame on them!
With some work and tweaking, you can make a reasonable interface in Windows 8 - but I can't think of anything that's a real positive.
Meanwhile, Windows 7 fixed my concerns with Vista and generally just stayed out of my way. It performed well and consistently, feeling familiar but better than their previous OS offerings.
Give us back Windows 7.
Let's not stir that bag of worms...
browser != rendering engine.
Chrome on iOS can do lots of things that Safari can't.
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
I misread:
And the first thing to pop into my head was why in Finagle’s name would anyone torrent Windows 8? Talk about a waste of bandwidth...
My niece came to me crying because her Windows 7 PC was reinstalling its video driver every other day, the sound didn't work half the time. It wouldn't boot sometimes. One day it just died. Wouldn't boot. I did not have a Windows 7 license around, and she couldn't do her homework. To allow her to do her homework, I put Linux Mint on it. Installed Libre Office, Skype, and a handful of teen related things she might want. I figured after a few days we would have to sort her out. and find a Windows to install.
That was a year and a half ago. You would have to pry that machine out of her cold dead hands. No viruses, no crashes, battery lasts longer than it EVER did running Windows. Her Videos work, her music works, Libre Office works. She wants nothing at all to do with Windows. She says Mint is perfect. everything works, it's responsive and nothing she needs to do is missing. She can find a tool in Linux to do anything she needs, and most of it is as good as the Windows version. I asked her the other day if she misses windows... She said she misses Windows at least as much as cancer.
What I can't understand is why other companies have followed their lead. Mathworks copied the ribbion for MATLAB, which makes me seriously wonder whether they are sane. MATLAB is almost by definition for power users and it costs a fortune.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
I am 99% sure they used to offer a $5 copy of Windows 8, if you owned a copy of Windows 7 or XP or something.
But I guess if not many people caught this deal, and it is gone now, it is sort of irrelevant.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
I've been using the "ribbon" for a few years now, and it still sucks.
QFT
Because the differences between those few different versions of Windows are trivial for 99.9% of users, they all share the same UI, and they all run the same software. Most users don't even know what version they have, all they really need to know is "I have Windows."
By contrast, Linux is a fucking mess...a giant clusterfuck of a confusing, contentious, conflicting, hopelessly complex and divided, fucked-up mess. Even saying "I have Linux" is a fucking meaningless statement. Which of thousands of different combinations of distros and desktops do you even mean when you say "Linux"?
SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
Why the fuck is this being modded insightful? If you want to use the EULA to make an argument against Microsoft here, you probably should have read it first.
Per the EULA for XP:
11. LIMITED WARRANTY FOR PRODUCT ACQUIRED IN THE US AND CANADA.
Microsoft warrants that the Product will perform substantially in accordance with the accompanying
materials for a period of ninety days from the date of receipt.
If an implied warranty or condition is created by your state/jurisdiction and federal or state/provincial
law prohibits disclaimer of it, you also have an implied warranty or condition, BUT ONLY AS TO
DEFECTS DISCOVERED DURING THE PERIOD OF THIS LIMITED WARRANTY (NINETY
DAYS). AS TO ANY DEFECTS DISCOVERED AFTER THE NINETY (90) DAY PERIOD, THERE IS
NO WARRANTY OR CONDITION OF ANY KIND. Some states/jurisdictions do not allow limitations
on how long an implied warranty or condition lasts, so the above limitation may not apply to you.
Any supplements or updates to the Product, including without limitation, any (if any) service packs or hot
fixes provided to you after the expiration of the ninety day Limited Warranty period are not covered by
any warranty or condition, express, implied or statutory.
12. DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTIES. The Limited Warranty that appears above is the only express warranty made
to you and is provided in lieu of any other express warranties (if any) created by any documentation, packaging,
or other communications. Except for the Limited Warranty and to the maximum extent permitted by applicable
law, Microsoft and its suppliers provide the Product and support services (if any) AS IS AND WITH ALL
FAULTS, and hereby disclaim all other warranties and conditions, either express, implied or statutory,
including, but not limited to, any (if any) implied warranties, duties or conditions of merchantability, of
fitness for a particular purpose, of reliability or availability, of accuracy or completeness of responses, of
results, of workmanlike effort, of lack of viruses, and of lack of negligence, all with regard to the Product, and
the provision of or failure to provide support or other services, information, software, and related content
through the Product or otherwise arising out of the use of the Product. ALSO, THERE IS NO WARRANTY
OR CONDITION OF TITLE, QUIET ENJOYMENT, QUIET POSSESSION, CORRESPONDENCE TO
DESCRIPTION OR NON-INFRINGEMENT WITH REGARD TO THE PRODUCT.
13. EXCLUSION OF INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL AND CERTAIN OTHER DAMAGES. TO THE
MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, IN NO EVENT SHALL MICROSOFT OR ITS
SUPPLIERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, PUNITIVE, INDIRECT, OR CONSEQUENTIAL
DAMAGES WHATSOEVER (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS
OR CONFIDENTIAL OR OTHER INFORMATION, FOR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION, FOR PERSONAL
INJURY, FOR LOSS OF PRIVACY, FOR FAILURE TO MEET ANY DUTY INCLUDING OF GOOD FAITH
OR OF REASONABLE CARE, FOR NEGLIGENCE, AND FOR ANY OTHER PECUNIARY OR OTHER LOSS
WHATSOEVER) ARISING OUT OF OR IN ANY WAY RELATED TO THE USE OF OR INABILITY TO USE
THE PRODUCT, THE PROVISION OF OR FAILURE TO PROVIDE SUPPORT OR OTHER SERVICES,
INFORMATON, SOFTWARE, AND RELATED CONTENT THROUGH THE PRODUCT OR OTHERWISE
ARISING OUT OF THE USE OF THE PRODUCT, OR OTHERWISE UNDER OR IN CONNECTION WITH
ANY PROVISION OF THIS EULA, EVEN IN THE EVENT OF THE FAULT, TORT (INCLUDING
NEGLIGENCE), STRICT LIABILITY, BREACH OF CONTRACT OR BREACH OF WARRANTY OF
MICROSOFT OR ANY SUPPLIER, AND EVEN IF MICROSOFT OR ANY SUPPLIER HAS BEEN ADVISED
OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.
If you want unlimited free updates forever, move to Linux. If you want to continue operating in the Windows world, you have to accept that there is a limit to the amount of free updates you get.
Here's some insight into why Metro is the way it is and why it's the default UI for Win8: http://www.reddit.com/r/techno...
Metro exists, specifically, for the segment of the population that (mostly) single tasks and doesn't want to get bogged down in the nitty gritty of the OS. They don't want multiple desktops or have 10+ windows open; they want to, in the words of pwnies, do nothing more intensive than watch cat videos. It appears to be a deliberate move by MS that most of the included apps suck for "power users" (Mail and Calendar get singled out) and that Office 365 is meant to run in Classic. And, apparently, it's why Metro is Win8's default UI; so-called power users can figure out how to nuke Metro and work more or less solely in classic desktop. Casual users would, apparently, never find Metro if the default UI were classic -- or, at least, they'd never use it since it's unfamiliar. And familiarity's a big deal when it comes to UI design. Think about it for a moment; it's apparently straight-forward make an app that returns the classic UI -- MS must have made it very, very easy to do so from the OS-side of things.
That's why, in large, part MS has been flouting colours! and customization! and Bing integration! in its marketing -- they're trying very, very hard to get media consumers to use Metro and like it.
But there are some very large problems to this. Metro is designed around touch and keyboard shortcuts -- not mouse. If you're using a touch screen, Metro's not bad once you grok that swiping from the edges of the screen makes stuff happen. But, damn, good luck figuring out hot corners with a mouse (switching between open apps is not, in particular, very intuitive). Or alt-tabbing. Or "type to find program" (in Win7 / classic, Windows key then type). But ... how many casual PC users have touch screens? To me, it's the flip side of Kinect; with XBone, you get a piece of hardware that's tightly integrated with the system, but provides comparatively little user benefit. With touch screens, there's a low installed user base among the people who would get the most use out of Metro.
The funny thing is that, by so forcefully going after casual users MS has incurred the wrath of people who need their PCs for work. And those people? If they have to set up a new PC for granny, the first thing they do is install something like Start8. For whatever reason, MS's marketing people have focused on the improved casual user experience for Metro and made it seem like classic is being phased out (apparently, it isn't). And ... Win8 IS a good OS. It was fast and stable out of the box. Driver support is excellent. Security, apparently, is superior to Win7. Unlike Vista, it works well on (comparatively) old hardware.
MS has become a deeply weird and schizo company. They're supporting a handful of separate UIs (Office: ribbons; Win8: classic; Metro). It's been marketing its new OS as being a superior choice for media consumers who have either already switched to smart phones and tablets or, simply, don't want to change from something that works well enough. The only possible way Metro on a desktop makes any sense is if MS is using it as a Trojan horse to get people to consider using Windows phones and tablets. But, damn. That's kinda' crazy.
Exactly!!! When I replaced my oven, it was almost as old as I am! And though my olde TV had been "obsolete" for years, I could keep using it until I was ready to replace it. Why should a perfectly good computer running XP (or Snow Leopard for that matter) have an expiration date?
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
10.1 -> 10.8: you can't, mostly because the processors changed with 10.4/10.5, and PPC got dropped in 10.6. However, had it not, the sequence goes like this: insert 10.6 upgrade disk, upgrade to 10.6, run app store, upgrade to 10.9. That's it, and yes, it would work, barring the hardware shift. on Intel macs, going from 10.4->10.9 works exactly like that, unless your hardware isn't 64-bit EFI.
Debian? sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get distupgrade about 4 times? I took a machine from Ubuntu 7 to Ubuntu 13 that way with a few hiccups (mostly networking driver and netatalk related).
Just saying, it is at least doable, barring actual hardware-related reasons. With XP->7/8, it *should* be doable, but they made a decision to not support upgrading without deleting all of your files in the process.
Metro is "easily avoided" if you're already a power user - if you know enough to install a start-button replacement, and replacements for all the other Metro applications bundled in.
My job is serving as the one-man IT department for my employer. I installed a copy of Win8 on my work desktop to test it out, and very quickly came to the conclusion that there was no way I was going to inflict it on my users. Even if I had a BOFH-style hatred for every single one of my coworkers, self-preservation would dictate I'd want to avoid all the helpdesk calls that Win8 would generate.
In the months I've been using Win8, I've managed to get it tweaked to the point that the parts I hate mostly stay out of my way. But this isn't something I'm going to install on any computer I'll be expected to support.
I can't image what Microsoft was thinking expecting "tech savvy" people to serve as Win8 cheerleaders for their friends. Most "tech savvy" people hate Window 8. Like most IT guys, I also do a bit of moonlight on evenings and weekends, and I've gotten a lot of people asking for advice for a new computer. Without fail, I always point them toward Windows 7 machines. You might not find them sitting on the shelves at Best Buy or Walmart, but they are out there, and will be until either Microsoft ends support for Win7, or they abandon their stupid insistence on cramming a tablet interface on to a desktop.
Redundancy is good And also good.
I'll go a step further - I prefer Office 2003 to 2010. I've been using the "ribbon" for a few years now, and it still sucks.
Exactly. People, even technical people, have to consistently go to google to find out how to do X or Y on MS Office 2010 whereas in 2003, such things were easily discernible. I would say that the 2003 interface was the pinnacle of Office's usability. I cannot understand, from a UX point of view, why things were changed so from 2003 to 2010. There is no inherent functional advantage from the later over the former.
Last I checked, astronomy was a branch of Physics.
There's no problem installing any browser I like on my Mac.
And as for iOS? Let's see... Google Chrome and, Opera are both available on iOS.
Microsoft (unsurprisingly) doesn't make a browser for Mac/iOS, nor for Linux/Android.
As for Microsoft putting IE in their OS - that was the least of their crimes. The only thing you're doing is proving your rank ignorance in Microsoft's behavior in the 1990's. Microsoft had a nasty tendency to change entire API's so a competitor's product wouldn't run. A popular saying was "Windows ain't done until (Lotus, WordPerfect) won't run." Microsoft was fond of extorting any non-Microsoft software vendors, and creating entirely new Windows-only proprietary technologies (DirectX, Windows Audio, Windows Video, Active Directory... the list is huge) to thwart adoption of standards. Microsoft was (and still is) famously hostile to open source software, even going so far as lobbying politicians to make open source software illegal.
In contrast, Apple supports many major open source projects: CUPS, WebKit, LLVM, and Clang. Apple also has released the source code (ie. their modifications) for over 200 other projects they use. Apple even releases the source for the OS Kernel, and other technologies such as Launchd, Grand Central Dispatch, mDNS/Bonjour, Apple Lossless Audio Codec, and their calendar and contacts server.
Apple is a lot better than Microsoft, even now that Microsoft has "reformed" somewhat. But claiming that Apple is worse than Microsoft only shows you have no fraking clue what you're talking about.
-- Sometimes you have to turn the lights off in order to see.
Apple is able to charge premium prices for mediocre hardware, control what software one loads on Apple devices, AND make money. Of course Microsoft is going to follow Apple's lead and do the same thing.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
Windows 7 is the closest Windows has ever been to what it should be. There's nothing that XP does that 7 doesn't do better.
I know some OEMs are still offering Win7 with business grade systems and higher, so it's obviously still available. If Microsoft wants to have any chance of convincing users to upgrade, they're going to have to give up on the idea of saving face and just start distributing Windows 7 again.
If they want to have any hope of *surviving*, Windows 9 had better Windows 7 SP2.
There's about 500 reasons to purchase a Surface 2 vs. a Surface Pro. The Surface Pro is nice, but it costs $500 more. As far as domains go, that really isn't much concern to home users. It's also not much of a concern over the other ARM based tablets since none of the ARM based tablets (Windows RT, Android, iPad) run windows legacy apps. Personally, I find that my Surface 2 is at least, if not more capable than an iPad or Android tablet. It doesn't have quite the same number of games, but other than that, it performs all the same features, or at least all the stuff that I want to do with a tablet. It also has a lot of built in functionality out of the box, which means I don't have to download apps to have things like a file manager, or connect to shared folders.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
Until a normal user can install and maintain his computer, Windows is not ready for the desktop.
Hasn't been since the end of DOS, and even that is stretching it, but somehow people only bitch about other operating systems and manage to avoid the elephant in the room.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a startup providing third-party support for Xp and Office 2003 by patching binaries...
I mean is it really that unthinkable?
If you take your old system and convert it to a VM you can then shut down all but the necessary services and add a stateful firewall on the host. This will go a long way towards reducing the security risk.
OP didn't say anything about Macs. He said in their OS. I'm pretty sure iOS is their OS.
You can't read.
"Their OS" implies an obvious subject else it would be ambiguous. Given that the topic at hand is desktop computers, referring to "their OS" would mean their desktop OS.
If we were arguing about stoves and you said "the GE unit doesn't work as well as Kenmoore", then I pointed out otherwise, it doesn't save your argument if you proclaim that you were talking about refrigerators.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
SECURITY! Obviously. Are you running a 14 year old hardware firewall too?
Your oven (probably) doesn't have a security infrastructure that needs to protect your important data.
Offer downgrade rights with any Windows 8 OEM license, and that will help significantly.
If you think 7 is bad, actually try 8.
Forget about easily upgrading from Ubuntu of a few years ago as well.
But I can tell you there is a world of difference in performance and bugs between the 2.
I've had over 6 months uptime on my Vista system... always performed fine, this is on a system I built at launch, ie. 7 years ago. Vista was sold on underpowered hardware, and plenty of services started as default which shouldn't have, compounding the performance issues... The only bug I've had was a bit of a stinker, whcih meant Vista would not install (at all, BSOD) with more than 4gb of RAM on certain (nvidia) motherboard chipsets (which admittedly were not that common). Installing with 4gb, grabbing a hotfix, then sticking the rest of the RAM back in fixed it.
It needs to end as XP is crap. After all it is based off of ME?!
Is this a joke, or do you really not know what you're talking about? 3.0 > 95 > 98 > ME. NT > 2K > XP > Vista > 7 > 8.
you could upgrade through the intermediate releases until you were current: 4.10 to 5.04 to 6.06 (1st LTS) to 8.04 (LTS) to 10.4 (LTS) to 12.04 (latest LTS).
Wrestling with several bugs and configuration file incompatibilities at each step. This upgrade process would be a nightmare, and a person would be well advised to consider how hard a fresh install really would be.
As far as domains go, that really isn't much concern to home users. It's also not much of a concern over the other ARM based tablets since none of the ARM based tablets (Windows RT, Android, iPad) run windows legacy apps.
Which would mean that many companies would not consider them for their employees then. That is large market of the traditional MS market that they are missing out on.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
or have the Cisco admin DMZ it to a subnet with no outside internet access
.... Or any other router/firewall admin. Fuck Cisco.
I second this, 16 bit runs fine in Windows 7. Compatibility mode in a 64 bit machine is for 32 bit now....
One anecdote deserves another.
I installed Linux Mint on my 9 year old stepdaughter's laptop because XP is such a security disaster. "This will be stable and work forever!" I congratulated myself. One of her primary use cases is NetFlix streaming.
Linux sucks for that. Horribly.
I am a computer engineer and have tended Linux machines at work for years. I now know that making NetFlix work stably on Linux is impossible. Hell, I would be pissed if it were *my* laptop and I had to regularly go through all these horrible gyrations to fix shit. Telling a 9 year old that she needs to kill X in order to escape from a full screen mode bug in firefox is just untenable. Not to mention the Netflix video quality blows compared XP and pegs the cpu at 100% constantly.
Now she hates her laptop and never uses it. She constantly asks for a new laptop (presumably one running Windows).
Guess she is just "holding it wrong".
Bill Gates has $75,000,000,000. He could singly purchase a new PC for every single XP user. "Problem" solved.
*I RUN FIREFOX ON MY MAC*
Try running it on you iPad.
Nice goalpost moving.
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
Yeah, due to Apple's feelings of insecurity. That has the word 'security' embedded in it.
----- ...
Waitress: Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it
I think you have it the wrong way 'round, it's new hardware running old software, not old hardware. And yes, old software can be as secure as new one. Provided it's not inherently insecure to begin with.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Yes a joke made off those who saw Windows 7 aero and thought VISTA and clinged to XP for life! ... compounded by those who say it really is just Vista etc.
I can tell you from my obsolete laptop with 2 gigs of ram and a 4500 rpm hd that there is a WORLD of difference between Vista and 7. It is a 1.7 ghz dual core AMD turion. Vista will just peg the hell out of the disk for many minutes on end. The waiting circle will pop up and the gui becomes unresponsive when processing something, in Windows 7 the graphics WDDM is multithreaded so the I have the cursor back when it is doing something. Network shares randomly vanish under Vista which is still not fixed. Network and HD access is still slower. Instant search indexing doesn't re-index constantly under 7.
These and higher ram requirements are the issues on this older system off the back of my head. I am sure on core2extreme or an icore5 with 4 gigs of ram it could be tolerated in a non corporate environment without network shares. Windows 7 has finer touches and responsiveness and less bugs. It is more pronounced on 2 gigs of ram and lower end machines with the impact.
http://saveie6.com/
Isn't anyone else just plain poor->broke? I run XP on an older Celeron with 512MB RAM because I have absolutely no money to upgrade. I dual-boot to Lubuntu and come back to XP for the 2005ish and before games I can still play. Some have proven ok with Wine / playonlinux, but most not.
For me it was a needed reboot that killed it. I had been installing and configuring the system. Only mildly annoyed by the changes, and trying hard to keep an open mind. When I found that a change I had made didn't really seem to be taking effect. So I thought reboot.
Where the hell is the reboot?
Can anyone find the reboot command?
How about a shutdown command?
What the hell have they done? I can't shutdown or Reboot?
Google to the rescue.
Sorry, but if I have to google to figure out how to shut a system down the system is broken beyond repair.
The machine was for multiple remote users testing on a number of VMs. I could just imagine the hell that awaite me trying to teach endusers to log out cleanly. I ended up putting a logout script on the desktop of every user, and telling them that they would horribly break the system if they didn't use it EVERY SINGLE TIME!!!
If I were God, wouldn't I protect my churches from acts of me?
People LOVE change that makes things better.
You'd think so but I've got a career of evidence that says otherwise. Most of my career has been spent as an industrial engineer designing efficient and effective production systems. I couldn't begin to tell you the number of times I've made changes that were undeniably for the better but people fought me the entire way. In fact I've had people who freely acknowledged that the changes were for the better and STILL didn't want to change even so. Now that doesn't describe everyone. Some people are more than willing to try new things but a huge portion won't change except at (figurative) gunpoint even if later on they love the changes.
So the javascript interpreter is part of the 'rendering engine'?
Windows RT is dead. It died the minute places like Dell started selling Windows 8.1 tablets with Intel x86 processors in them that can run the full Windows 8.1 for $300. Why would ANYBODY buy a crippled ARM tablet when a tablet that will run all their classic Windows applications is available for the same price or less? Why anybody would buy a crippled iPad is also weird. Apple, it's time for you to sell a low-cost OS X tablet.
Sure you can. But what is Chrome on iOS? It is a user interface skin over Safari is all it is. Not actually Chrome.
The Mozilla folks refuse to revert to coding skins for somebody else's browser. They have more integrity than that.
Google with their Chrome? Not so much.
Sadly, the slashdot community used to feel the same about Apple as they did about Microsoft. That changed after Apple's PR folks faked enough 'openness' and bought the apple.slashdot.org domain. Do they cosponsor and pay the bandwidth for that part of your operation, Dice? And why is this Apple PR shit polluting the it.slashdot.org domain now? This isn't the fanboy domain. Shoo!
Windows 8 doesn't slow anything down. Check some benchmarks. It is faster than XP in most things. Here's one from a casual Google: http://itnews2day.com/2013/02/...
Windows XP is 32-bit only. Windows XP does not like hyperthreading or quad core CPUs. XP doesn't perform well on high bandwidth WAN connections. Its old SMB file transfer speeds are atrocious on gigabit LANs. It doesn't allow threaded GPU accesses and only supports old DirectX versions. It doesn't understand Advanced Format hard drives or SSDs. USB 3 on XP is buggy as hell. (in my experience)
If you installed a super modern GPU with 3 GB video RAM on XP, it would fall over and die because it has to map those 3 GB into 4 GB of space.
So, in at least this case, the OS didn't slow down. And without it new hardware wouldn't work at all.
Fine, but you keep your malware.
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
'Those dumb proles can't defend themselves. It's a good thing that we in the Inner Party can and will enforce their protection. For their own good!'
RT is dead.
Long live Surface 2 with Windows RT 8.1!
"Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
--- Jerry Garcia
As opposed to?
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
Your comment might be valid if the dumb prole couldn't join the inner party by simply choosing to by spending $100.
And...
These people are running a 14 year-old operating system, they skipped Vista and Windows 7...
What is Apple's plan to accommodate users of 14 year-old OS X?
Which Linux distribution has a plan to update a 14 year-old distribution?
I have a MacBook Pro from a few years ago, it won't support Mavericks - Apple is telling me that I either need to keep running soon to be unsupported OS X OR buy a new device.
Ken
Just release Windows XP 2, which is just windows xp with security fixes and the latest IE.
Guaranteed they sell more copies than windows vista, 7 and 8 combined.
Plus it comes with a gold embossed certificate that says "We're really sorry about Vista, 7 and 8. Really, really sorry, we apologise unreservedly."
Imagine the reviews: "Its so much faster than Windows 7" and "My new PC is usably fast!" and "I love that Windows now actually includes windows instead of that ugly metro UI".
Just sayin
-- Senior Software Engineer, Attorney appearance services, locallawyerapp.com.
I still use 2000 and third parties (e.g., OpenOffice and LibreOffice). I also dislike the ribbons. I am forced to use it at work. :(
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
Don't try and defend the indefensible - this entire thread is a discussion about Microsoft's desktop OS offerings, so if someone mentions "Apple OS" without specifically stating that they mean a mobile OS, then a reasonable person is going to assume that they are referring to Apple's desktop operating system.
He said "But when Apple not only puts their own web browser in their OS, *BUT FORBIDS INSTALLING ANY OTHER THIRD-PARTY BROWSER*".
Did you read the sentence before that one? You know, so you understand the context?
Here it is:
Considering that NOBODY had a mobile OS in the 90's, it stands to reason that even OP knew that we're discussing desktop offerings.
On top of that, when called out on this seemingly obvious aspect of human communication, OP decided to relocate the goalposts and toss in a non sequitur in a weak attempt to try and deflect from the fact that they are not doing a very good job of expressing themselves.
If you still don't get why OP failed to communicate effectively, take an English class.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Windows 8 - An OS designed to tablets, pretty ordinary user experience on a desktop
Windows 7 - No upgrade path from XP, user must be on Vista to upgrade to Windows 7
Ubuntu - Slower and less than reliable
Apple - Ditch the PC and get a Mac
ChromeOS/similar - Still looking at options
Android for PC - Could be the ideal timing
For my wife's computer was to wipe Windows and install Linux. She's getting used to it, and other than the way it looks sees very little difference. For me, it's way more supportable and stable.
upgrade - and find that the photo viewing application is gone
upgrade - and find that the driver for your printer is gone, there is no new one, and the old one won't work in the new OSx
upgrade - and find your ability to install the software that you like is compromised ...
FTA "a total lack of actual upgrade options. What Microsoft calls an upgrade involves completely wiping the PC and reinstalling a fresh OS copy on it -- or ideally, buying a new device."
Oh mercy that's just incompetent.
Much the same with EA's Dice; they just came out with a new series of Battle Field 4 maps and updates, trying to look good after a unplayable release of BF4. Updated the jets wouldn't take off (no afterburners), incompetence taken to a new level.
Seriously, why do OSs have to grow enough to nix the advances in hardware, both in size and speed?
Gates' Law
Everytime I want to use the datedif function in Excel 2010 I have to google it because it's not listed as an available function in the Excel UI. It works perfectly fine if you follow the correct argument components, I just don't use it often enough to remember them. I"m sure there are plenty of other orphan functions in there too.
Sara
Designer, Gamer, Macgrrl in an XP World
Trying to read this broke my brain. If you have something of value to communicate, it's considered polite to do so in a manner that HELPS your audience, not one that makes them work harder to guess what you are trying to say.
TL:DR version - learn English.
Sara
Designer, Gamer, Macgrrl in an XP World
lol, baby steps...
WinXP and Office 97 at home. One function in Excel 2003 added an extra keystroke to a command I use 100's of times. I stopped looking at new ones after that. Keeping an XP box just for this as I don't consider adding a few hundred keystrokes to a process to be an 'upgrade'! OK, actually I am not buying a new 2nd computer because it simply works fine for what it is for. My main at home is Win7 for gaming since there are some that require it and it was time.
I wonder if there is a more evil encouragement under the radar as more and more sites actually break XP/IE, usually for not apparent reason.
Sigh, In 30 years I've gone from cutting edge to near-luddite as any 'progress' seems to have stopped halfway here. Things rarely seem to get better now, just different. And it seems the newer the device the shorter the lifespan. I just replaced a DTV convertor box (4 yr?) before the TV (16 yr).
Agreed, and I've been saying the same for years. But now even the MacPRO isn't really upgradeable, so guess it will never happen. So installing OSX on generic hardware is the only way to go if you want a mini-tower
I've got better things to do tonight than die.
Sounds like something's awry... I'm currently using about 2gb (of 8 available), and I have a tonne of stuff open. One thing you could try is disabling superfetch (and possibly readyboost) if you have it on (in services). Superfetch has a tendency to peg the hard drive, and I've yet to see any real evidence it actually does any good. Vista does have higher RAM requirements, I admit that, but 2gb should be enough to run ok.
My core2duo is 7 years old, and my system used to boot from BIOS to usable desktop in 15 seconds. It's now loads longer than that, because of all the cruft I've accumulated over the years, though still under a minute. 8gb of RAM is dirt cheap now...
Well, you do understand it from the "having to sell something new as innovative every other year" point of view, right?
CLI paste? paste.pr0.tips!
Now the software manufacturers are trying to get me to exercise too.
There is not a single user land program written for at least one part of that "giant clusterfuck of a confusing, contentious, conflicting, hopelessly complex and divided, fucked-up mess" that I can not install and run on any distro.
So what is the problem?
there's an interesting point to this; while there is a chrome app, the people above say that it uses the apple browser scripting engine. so you can install different browsers but not different engines. a little too geeky for me, but there you go.
why would he be happier elsewhere? maybe he's ill tempered and loves a good argument.
So users expect an upgrade path from a 10 year old OS to the current version? I have a server running Gentoo that is 3 years without updates and I have no upgrade path. How many other operating systems will allow a direct upgrade to the latest branch without intermediates? Oh yeah... fuck Windows 8. And while I'm at it... Unity too. I'm going to need more lube.
Oh ya, the later versions of Office are completely awful. Stick to Office 2003 as long as you can. Even if you do upgrade, keep that old version around so that you can read your old documents.
They need new versions otherwise people will not buy the new versions. Duh. So what if they have no new features, do you want the economy to collapse by applying logic to consumer decisions?
The problem is maybe people don't know why they would want to use Metro. We just want to get to the desktop, run the "real" browser and whatever else. And I suspect most lay people, of them 80% don't use or have never used Metro yet, have no clear idea of what it is for.
Myself, I see it as lacking a notepad by default, and it seems it wants me to try an account, a mail inbox, use my debit card to get software etc. whereas in regular Windows you can open the start menu and run notepad from there without doing any of these things.
Even if they get it "right" I guess those issues would still be there.
"it seems it wants me to create an account". sorry.
Wrong on the latter count, GPUs have a 256MB addressing window no matter the memory size.
For the rest, yes you're limited to 2TB hard drives, about 3GB memory, DirectX 9 games (a hell lot of games) and I don't know what's a WAN connection : home desktops tend to talk to a router.
I will have to upgrade a buddy's computer from XP to 7, a computer that lives in all these limitations (including a really fast dual core CPUs) and it is a fucking great PC, fast, great looking, highly reliable, a few gorgeous games.
Security is the ONLY reason to upgrade it. Windows 7 will bring the taskbar with squares, a worse file manager, some more disk-thrashing, DirectX 11 and that's all.
Pretty much.
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
I know, Microsoft want's to sell Windows 8 licenses, but would it be technically feasible for MS to backport 8.1 kernel to XP, so XP would continue getting all security updates?
Upgrading is always an option. They’ve just decided that the (odds X cost) of potential security issues from not upgrading is lower than the cost of upgrading all of the apps and systems.
Were I an IT-type person in such a company, I’d want hardcopy signed by C-level management expressing it in those exact terms. Something to the effect of, “We acknowledge that there are significant known vulnerabilities in our operating system and browser, that there is a significant likelihood of additional vulnerabilities, particular after the vendor’s end-of-life for patches. We nonetheless choose to run this vulnerable platform in lieu of incurring the costs to upgrade. We acknowledge that IT has made us aware of these risks and absolve IT of any responsibility for security incidents which occur as a result of this choice.”
Good luck getting that of course, but I’d be looking for a new job either way...
So users expect an upgrade path from a 10 year old OS to the current version? I have a server running Gentoo that is 3 years without updates and I have no upgrade path. How many other operating systems will allow a direct upgrade to the latest branch without intermediates?.
Been running Gentoo on some of my PC's (as well as a PS3, and an IBM PPC64 in the attic) for about 7 years now. Sure you're screwed if you don't update in 3 years, but if you do weekly or monthly updates, there's now upgrades at all, unless you count profile updates.
On a loosely related rant, Gnome 3 is worse than Windows 8. I've been forced to switch over to KDE to keep OpenRC. Systemd is the Devil.
Ops, I shuld have usd the prevuwe but in.
> I should have thought it was perfectly obvious. Their computer works. Its costs nothing to stay as you are. It takes no time to stay as you are. If you choose to upgrade you have to buy Windows 7 or (heaven forfend) Windows 8. You may need to buy a new computer. Your old device drivers won't work, so you may need to buy new devices (yes really!). Your old software will require an update or you will have to install some Virtual Machine software - this won't quite work with all the (very) old but perfectly serviceable applications you have. You probably can't do it yourself so have have to employ a tech to do it for you. You will waste a lot of time getting it all to work exactly as you want. Since stuff increasingly works on the web, all you really need is a browser that's kept up-to-date. The downside of cloud based stuff is that you are increasingly vulnerable to governments and to black-hatted persons who may withhold access to/spy on/steal/corrupt or otherwise harm your data. Equally worryingly there is a trend toward no longer selling software licenses but reverting to the old mainframe business model of renting it. Software rental costs only go in one direction. Windows 8 exists almost entirely for the benefit of Microsoft. We didn't choose to have it appear and it offers little that is of real value except to software developers, who can sell new versions, and hardware manufacturers. If Windows 8 provided lots of genuine benefit, people wouldn't be grumbling. >
"All support and service for Windows XP and Office 2003 shuts down on April 8. " So? It that supposed to scare me? I have been using MS since MSDOS 1.0 and I have NEVER used MS support. I'm even suspicious of most of the updates and seldom use them. I have one machine on XP, another on Win7 and one on Win 8 which I hate. I'm still mad about the $3000 hardware peripheral that I lost when I left Win2K behind. That hi-resolution medium format film scanner requires a SCSI card to run, and software that won't run on anything newer than W2K so I keep thinking about building a machine with W2K just to run it.
I was wrong about XP needing to map all 3 GB of video RAM.
It is more accurate to say that Windows XP limits the GPU to a 256 MB window. The GPU would perform a lot better if all of its memory was mapped for direct access.
The newer pieces of GPU hardware and drivers are using zero-copy direct memory access with addressing that is the same on the GPU and the CPU which allows sharing of data structures without copies or modifications. That can't be done in a 256 MB window, or if it can, not well.
Actually pushed me to Apple
I'm now the proud owner of a brand new MacBook Pro
no matter how good it is, it is human nature always wants to make things better
Put your XP stuff in a VirtualBox VM. Snapshot it so you have a safe place to roll back to when it breaks (because it will) and run it on a newer OS. Win8 if you like, or some variant of Linux. The point is that XP is (like any piece of software) imperfect and bound to have security issues in the future. If you're the kind of user who doesn't go online and your world never changes, then you have no incentive to upgrade anyway. This message is aimed at people who would have some advantage in having a harder system and/or access to newer software.
Really, the only thing needed for this is a tool which guides the novice user through:
1) resizing their main drive so that there's enough space (or stop if there's no space and inform the user; disks aren't that expensive these days) to
2) dump the drive to a VB disk image, in a partition in the remaining space
3) install whatever upgrade path you've asked for (so the tool needs a "resume" mode so you can launch it again from wherever you left off)
4) set up the VB VM for use.
Ok, it's non-trivial, but the process *is* trivial for a technical user. If you're one of those, or prepared to support a family member, put your pride aside and help them to upgrade to the platform of their choice (whatever that is) with a VB VM to hold their old environment.
Stop whining about it -- decide if upgrading to anything else is actually worth it and then just do the above. Time changes everything. Life moves on. It's time you do too -- or just accept where you are and shaddup. /2c
So you want to be a hobo?
And you would guess right. All iOS browsers are wrappers around The Safari engine.
MS changed how files are stored and how win explorer organizes files. Attempting to find a file using win explorer is an exercise in futility. XP was logical, 7 is a challege.
Very good point about the memory integration with modern GPU. It's especially relevant with the latest designs (Kaveri, Maxwell) and if you care about this you'll run Windows 8.1 or later.
Plenty of XP software that fails on win7/8 works fine on wine.
I had no Windows XP systems that were robust enough to run Windows 7 or Windows 8. All of these have now been upgraded to Ubuntu and LibreOffice. I wonder if this was Microsoft's plan. To be fair, I am also running 2 Windows 7 and 1 Windows 8.
Perhaps the Federal Government should is its power of eminent domain to seize XP and all its source code, supporting documents, etc., and then maintain it as a public good.
I find XP to be one of the most user friendly OSs out there for non computer people and that's far more than the rest of us. There are physicians, clinics, hospitals, physical rehab centers, emergency rooms, and even large corporations still on XP. The medical industry is still upgrading to computer systems in many cases. Most of this is custom software unfortunately using proprietary databases. This makes it prohibitively expensive for them to have to upgrade to a new OS AND new custom software after such a major expense. This will likely put our medical records at risk. When in the hospital, or visiting the PT centers I'm amazed at the lack of computer system knowledge and how awkward some of the software may be. Most of the time I see the XP logo screen saver drifting across the monitor. At my age, it's nice to see the family doctor who can access any specialists records that are on "the system". It speeds consultation with specialists and reduces mistakes, or conflicting medications. The news only covers the few mistakes, faulty software, and sometimes the lack of an audit trail. Most wouldn't know an audit trail if it bit them in the ass, but they still sensationalize the weak spots and ignore the good points. Staying with XP, is the logical thing to do when it does all that they want and does it well. The rest of the world looks at a computer system and asks "will it do all I want?" and if the answer is yes, they have no incentive or desire to upgrade. The real world is driven by cost and results. Nothing more. So obsoleting their main OS of choice that leaves them with a costly option of purchasing a new OS, purchasing new custom software, and retraining thousands of people that have to be shown how to turn them on and off, let alone use the new software is creating the potential for a new round of errors in the medical community. To me, this makes any problems the responsibility of MS and these can be "life and death" mistakes. People can blame poor training, but if you deal with the general public you quickly realize that you literally have to take many of these people through each step, "every time" until they learn it by rote and there are many operations. My wife made the mistake of helping some of her friends with their computers. Now, time after time, they call her for help on the same thing. As a project manager, I didn't normally work on end users work stations, but when out in a lab, I'd often be asked about some problem. Often, it'd turn out that when finished, they'd physically turn the computer off, not let it shut down. That took too long. Remember, we are dealing with an entire group of people that spans from just barely literate to PHDs that have one thing in common. They know absolutely nothing about computers. They know absolutely nothing about support, Operating systems, or vulnerabilities. It's not that they don't want to learn, but particularly in the medical industry, it's a question of available time. Sure, there is a segment that doesn't want to learn, but why should they, if what they have does what they want. There are a lot of infected computers out there with the latest Operating systems. The only thing the user knows is that "this computer sure is slow" As the government maintains you have no right to expect privacy for your data if it's not on your physical computers, under your physical control(on your property), cloud users can tout all the security they want, but the govt agencies say they can legally peruse your data all they want without a warrant . Think about all conditions a person might not want to share with the govt, because you will. I purchase Apple stock, not their hardware. It costs too much. So those who say, "go to Apple". Do so. I can use the money. Their stock hasn't been very healthy as of late and could use a boost. LINUX and Apple are no longer being ignored by hackers, either.
Or they need to pour epoxy into the LAN and USB ports.
I have seen it written that Microsoft has the right to withdraw support for XP and move on. I am not so sure I agree with this. The number of machines out there that are currently running on XP is staggering. Not even counting all the automated teller machines. I do think it makes sense for Microsoft to compile in all the updates and make a new clean set of binaries. I am unclear on what benefits Windows 7 and Windows 8 provide that are important enough to justify the financial impact and expense of moving to newer OS and new hardware. Oh yea, a protected video path for Hollywood's higher def media. Is it so important to converge and use that as the justification? Cheap DVD and Bluray players with HDMI encryption cost under a hundred dollars now, so we don't really have to go to great trouble and expense of upgrading the entire world's hardware and software just to protect Hollywood's fears about media piracy. Part of Mickrosoft's decline is about the perception that they don't care about the user's needs.
It doesn't have notepad, and you have to set up an account to add it? That's crappy. I haven't used it enough to run into that, and I refuse to set up a microsoft account for a desktop computer.
"Pulling together is the aim of despotism and tyranny! Free men pull in all sorts of directions" -- Havelock Vetinari